Q4 2021 Mogo Inc Earnings Call
Ladies and gentlemen, this is the operator today's conference call and webcast are scheduled to begin momentarily until that time your lines will again be placed on music hold thank you for your patience.
[music].
Ladies and gentlemen, this would be operator today's conference call and webcast are scheduled to begin momentarily until that time your lines will again be placed on music hold thank you for your patience.
[music].
Ladies and gentlemen, this would be operator today's conference call and webcast are scheduled to begin momentarily until that time your lines will again be placed on music hold thank you for your patience.
[music].
Yeah.
Okay.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by I will now introduce Mr. Craig armor tick up in Investor Relations. Please go ahead Sir.
Thank you operator, good afternoon, and thanks for joining us today and thanks for your patience just a couple quick notes before we get started.
First today's call will contain forward looking statements that are based on current assumptions and subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected the company undertakes.
Takes no obligation to update these statements except as required by law information about these risks and uncertainties are included in our Q4 and year end 'twenty one filings.
As well as periodic filings with regulators in Canada, and the U S, which you can find on SEDAR Edgar and the website.
Second today's discussion will include adjusted financial measures, which are non <unk> measures.
These should be considered as a supplement to and not as a substitute for <unk> measures and you can find reconciliations in the filings and lastly, the mounts today are discussed in Canadian dollars unless otherwise indicated we were a little delayed getting the presentation.
That was the cause of the delay.
And our normal practice of course is to have slides.
You will see that available a PDF for download in the handouts panel.
So I appreciate your patients again with that and I'll turn the call over to date salaries starting David.
Thanks, Greg.
Thank you and good afternoon, and welcome to our fourth quarter and year end 2021 results conference call I'm joined today by Greg Feller, our president and CFO .
Last year was a transformative year in many aspects are we can't be more excited about the progress we've made and as one of Canada's leading fin techs. We believe we were well on our way to building the leading digital finance platform in Canada.
Our team continues to be guided by a simple an important mission to make it simple and engaging for consumers to achieve financial freedom. While also making an impact we are building a next generation Fintech platform around this mission with product solutions and an experience that's designed to primarily resonate with the next generation.
Building a next gen platform that can deliver on this mission has been our focus and we've come a long way in the last few years two.
2021 has been perhaps the most transformative year, so far given our acquisitions and the focus on building out our new digital wealth platform.
Clearly, we have a lot going on but each one of these initiatives and acquisitions has been strategically done to build out the platform. We believe we will deliver on our mission and position us to become the most relevant digital finance company in the Canadian market.
As you can see here last year was also a very transformational year from a financial perspective.
Looking at year over year, Q4 metrics really highlights the magnitude of the transformation members up over 70% revenue up 70% cash investments in digital assets up over six times and shareholder equity up over 54 times from the same quarter last year.
Obviously these are all very material improvements and was a result of a lot of hard work from all of our team members.
Now taking a step back on the space. We're in it's important to understand just how big of a transformation incurring occurring and finances.
We've been living in a traditional finance world up until recently and a whole new world is emerging and we see ourselves as a platform to bridge. These two worlds.
Fintech is about leveraging technology to re imagine the products and experiences our finances, but it's all been built with the legacy infrastructure, whereas defy is all about rebuilding the backend infrastructure.
This new infrastructure is niche data natively digital global and 24, seven we're going from a traditional finance world to a decentralized one that includes wet three ftes and crypto.
Personal finance is no longer just about checking accounts and bill payments, it's about a world where users will increasingly have digital assets and need the ability to manage these alongside the current traditional products. It's no longer just a traditional mortgage and real estate and the real world people are now buying and selling land in the digital world and if Ts are also.
Beyond just arent and digital assets to being used to verify ownership of physical assets from a plot of real estate to even heard of cows are focuses on building a platform that enables canadians to manage their finances and achieve their financial goals in this new world and I believe the investments we have been made to date positions well to do this.
Now, although the make up of finances are changing rapidly the objective the financial freedom is the same whether you're interacting in the meta versus the real world you still wont achieve financial freedom.
But for the next generation, it's not enough to just build wealth. They wanted to do it in a way that makes the world a better place they want to have an impact in fact, 76% say they identify as actavis.
Our focus is on building a platform and experience that helps them achieve this school.
We recently profiled one of our own team members are women in their twenty's with the same aspirations. Many people our age to make an impact in the world and one day achieve financial freedom.
Like many she came out of University of student debt and then got into credit card debt for four mogul. She wasn't sure what to do or how to get out of it but now by using our products and following our program. She is on a path to retiring with over $10 million. Now. This is ultimately what it's all about helping someone get on the right path to financial freedom and make it easy and engaging to do it well.
So having an impact this unique focus really differentiate smoke go.
Yeah.
Without question, the most challenging part of being on track to financial Freedom is getting into the habit of spending less than you make whether you live primarily in the virtual world or the real World. This will continue to be the case as we all know its not what you make the way you'd have left that determines if you're on track to building well someone making 100000 ear and spending 100000 years is broke while someone making 40000 and investing.
10000, a year it can be on track to retiring a millionaire.
Being more mindful around our spending isn't just key to our financial health. It's also key to building the world do we want just as where we invest our money matters. So does how we spend the mobile card is the only card in Canada. This makes it easy and free to eliminate your carbon footprint.
As you get them better control of your spending Youre also doing your part to stop was arguably the biggest social issue of our time.
Another unique feature of our card is that it not only makes it easy for anyone to eliminate their carbon footprint, but it also rewards and bitcoin every time you use it.
Credit cards with air miles points might've been the preferred path for the older generations that Gen. Z is looking for something different today, our average card user like the mobile team member I reference is not only climate positive, but it saves on average over $200 a month by using the card.
While controlling our spending is perhaps the hardest part of wealth building without investing consumers can achieve financial freedom goals.
21 was a transformational year in many ways, but perhaps mostly for our progress on our digital wealth platform.
Our solution has two main parts passive investing and active investing both of these are critical components of a digital wealth platform.
<unk> trade is our active investing solution and mocha today as our passive investing solution. We believe both are needed.
Most of the trade has been our number one growth initiative for the last year and without a doubt the most important product we have ever developed our acquisitions of Moca and fortification were key part of this along with the focus of the entire team over the last year, we successfully got regulatory approval and launch our App and weightless at the end of 2021 .
Trade is designed to be a best in class Nextgen trading platform, beginning with the commission free stock trading and with the goal of expanding into crypto and other products, including N F. Ts.
Now this obviously ties into our strategic investments and we believe positions us to be one of the leaders in Canada. The next generation wealth building platforms are going to look a lot different than what's in the market today Crypto N F. T's and stocks are all going to be part of the next generation financial assets and building a platform for this new world is what we're focused on.
And like our card we built it in with impact. So that every investment you make also has a positive impact members will also be able to access their impact right in the App. Our goal remains to remove the waitlist in Q2 and ramp up marketing later on in the quarter.
Okay.
With over 100000 active subscribers Moca continues to be an important part of our subscription revenue, but perhaps more importantly is how we are evolving this into a best in class passive long term investing solutions as much as we believe in active investing the facts also support the passive should be a key part of anyone's long term wealth building plan and setting up an automated vesting program that vascular.
Low cost Etfs as a key.
Local was initially designed as more of a short term saving solutions and with some small adjustments we were turning it into a powerful best in class long term wealth building solutions, we put a graph here to highlight how different returns can be through one of these strategies, we compared to 100% allocation strategy versus a typical 85% allocation strategy to equities along.
With the difference between a 0.5% fee that some competitors charge versus our current monthly fee and the differences are shocking as you can see.
The point here is for long term wealth building your allocation in your fees matter a lot and that's how we are evolving this product so that it truly delivers best in class result.
We continue to believe that marketing can also become a competitive differentiator in the companies that win will also have a brand that connects emotionally besides leveraging social media and traditional marketing channels. We've put a lot of work and focus on connecting emotionally and you'll be seeing that with our upcoming mobile trade campaign that we expect to launch sometime in Q2 in banking today Theres not.
Much differentiation between brands, but for the next generation, we think it matters and relevancy matters.
Although the team market doesn't seem large by global standards. This is still a market where the top five largest banks made over 50 billion in net profits last year.
As one of the leading Fintech in Canada, we are well positioned and Theres a strong barrier to entry given the regulatory environment as we continue to build out our platform in key areas like legal and compliance we are creating a competitive moat that isn't easy to replicate and it's not just the dollars that are invested but the years of work needed to get to where we are today and we will continue to build on this moat every quarter.
<unk>.
Although we have made a lot of progress in the last year. We were still clearly early the early stages of our journey and the opportunity which is why we're continuing to invest heavily in building out our platform and positioning us for long term growth key areas of investment include product development sales and marketing regulatory and compliance and market expansion of our payments business. We also continue to evaluate our <unk>.
Acquisition opportunities that can accelerate our growth and mission.
With that I'll pass it over to Greg.
Thanks, Dave and good afternoon, everyone.
Some of the key metrics and trends that they've touched on is a milestone year for mobile both strategically and financially capped off by a record Q4 revenue that showcases the strength and diversification of our business.
Our fourth quarter results were again highlighted by accelerating top line growth in subscription services that exceeded our guidance.
Key fourth quarter highlights include $8 6 billion in payment processing volume record organic net member additions third quarter in a row of accelerating revenue growth.
Fourth.
And in the fourth quarter, we generated strong positive contribution from our diversified revenue base. Lastly, we ended the year with a very healthy financial position with cash and total investment portfolio and our balance sheet of approximately $193 million.
That's total member base increased 64% over last year to approximately $1 9 million members. The approximate 800000 of net member additions during the year was split roughly 50 50 between organic and acquisition. The scale of our member base is clearly one of the big competitive differentiator is familiar with it.
Tech landscape, Canada and gives us the ability to more quickly launch and scale new products like mobile trade. Once moga trade is fully rolled out we expect the accelerating net member additions and ultimately increase engagement monetization rate our new member growth was matched by accelerating revenue growth in the quarter, which increased by 70% Q.
Q4 revenue growth was fueled by accelerating subscription services revenue, which grew 135% for the quarter, reaching $34 4 million in 2021 revenue segment now accounts for 60% of our total revenue.
Growth came from both the acquisitions, we completed as well as an increasing diversified set of products and revenue streams, including strong year over year growth in subscription revenue and our mobile card.
<unk> related revenue with volatile during the quarter has been increased significantly during the year. However, it still remains a small percent of our total subscription services revenue.
Each of Houston, which is gross profit less our funding interest expense and customer service and operations expense is a measure we use to understand evaluate our core operating performance and trends before accounting for investments, we're making across our platform. We view this metric as a good indicator of the operating leverage your model has as we scale contribution profit increased 51% in Q4 to $10 6 million.
Yeah.
And it grew 43% for the full year to $28 7 million. These increases were partially driven by incremental contribution generated by core molded business along with positive contribution of our acquisitions. We believe that the significant investments we are making our platform today that Dave spoke about including developing a mobile trade mogul invest in our payments business will help further.
They're still lithify, our position in Canada and become important drivers of growth long term.
Our strong contribution margin along with our strong balance sheet gives us confidence in maintaining these investment levels as in the <unk> 22.
An important and valuable distinguishing factor in our business model with the high percentage of recurring revenue and the diversification of this revenue. We believe that this is becoming even more valuable during a period of continued financial market volatility, we're having a predictable predictability in our core business base of revenue increases in importance.
In addition to growing our member base. We also saw an increase in the monetization rate of our members, which had been driven by an expanding set of relevant products like mobile part Muslim basketball good money in the rollout of MOGO trade.
Specifically over the last 12 months, we've increased the monetization rate of our member base from under 10% to approximately 14% when you compare our average revenue across all of our members to our average revenue per monetize member you can see that the payoff to continuing to increase our member base is significant and almost eight times the RP level across the total member base as we've also discussed before there.
Remains an even larger long term opportunity to drive IRR is.
As the average leading Canadian banking credit Union.
His approximately $1000 or higher.
Part of our payments business had a good year and as you saw generated $8 6 million volume last year up 50% over the prior year for part of prior to the acquisition by mobile after year behind the business. We are increasingly excited about the tremendous long term growth opportunity. This business represent as a result, we are investing in the business in 'twenty two which include.
The recent appointment of balanced Smith as head of part of Alan has a proven fintech leader with directly relevant sector experience from his time at U S payments later Galileo.
We're excited to have them on their team as we look to 'twenty two growth from this business, we will see some first half headwinds as cuts as a customer rolls off excluding this one time event, we are expecting another growth year and excited to have Alan and the role of the guide the team through the next phase of growth within a massive global Tam.
Along with our earnings results today, we also announced the formation of mobile ventures to manage our existing investment portfolio and strategic partners and companies. Its important logos ecosystem. The portfolio has a book value on our balance sheet of approximately $124 million or 39% stake in Canada's leading crypto exchange point square is by far the largest investment in the portfolio.
And one of which we continue to be very excited about both today and longer term in the latest quarter points, where it saw revenues increase about 40% sequentially over Q3, and we also recognized positive net income to our equity recognition for the quarter. The company is also well capitalized with close to $100 million of cash and other investments on their balance sheet at year.
And more importantly, however, we believe <unk> is positioned to become the first fully regulated crypto exchange in Canada. This year. We believe this will be a milestone event for both the company and the industry and as <unk> largest shareholder mogul is very well positioned to benefit from the value creation of this major milestone.
Also important to note that the value of our investment in <unk> scores based on our book value at acquisition as we don't Mark the positioning or market value and it does not include any value of our warrant to purchase up to an additional 10% of the company, which is separately recognized on our balance sheet.
Separately. This portfolio includes an investment in Canada first digital asset Trust Tetra, along with our 25% stake in the global and if you see trading platform NFC trader with Steve spoke about earlier, we also have a number of legacy investments in the portfolio, which will we will focus on finding ways to monetize and believe that some of these investments could be monetize over the next six months.
12 months.
Over the past several years mobile has been able to leverage its leadership position the Canadian fintech industry to make a number of attractive investments in other emerging players in the Canadian market.
Today's announcement clearly highlights the significant value that these investments represent for our shareholders. As we continue to build out Canada's leading financial technology and payments platform. We will continue to look for ways to participate in value creation opportunities with our partners that drive incremental shareholder value.
With today's results. We also reiterated our guidance for 2022, which is based on the investments you are making in the growth opportunities, we see across our business specifically in fiscal year 2022 logos targeting total revenues of $75 million to $80 million and improving adjusted EBITDA as a percentage of revenue in the second half of the year.
Lastly, as you may have seen with today's earnings we announced that the board has approved a share repurchase program of up to $10 million U S. While our primary focus is to invest in our platform of new products. The current market volatility may continue to present attract attractive buying opportunities.
Simply we believe our share price does not reflect the fair value of the business, including the significant assets and components of value I discussed and our strong balance sheet puts us in a position to take advantage of those situations on behalf of our shareholders.
With that we will now open the call to questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask an audio question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad again Thats star one to ask an audio question well pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster.
Your first question is from the line of a dear <unk> with eight capital.
Thanks, guys. So my first question will be just on Bogo trade.
Full rollout in Q2, but what he does really expecting in terms of the rollout how do you plan on going to market and any other details surrounding that.
Sure so as Dave Yeah.
Yeah. Our plan is to you know we're continuing to.
Accelerate our invitations and obviously you know.
This is a new product and as much as we're excited about it it's always about really making sure that you know when you release it.
It delivers so we're trying to be kind of careful and mindful around kind of that approach.
But given everything we've done so far in all of our testing, where we're increasingly confident and we're accelerating our invitations and we expect to.
Eliminating the need for an invitation so that somebody can sign up directly by downloading the app without the wait list most likely targeting near the the end of April . So next month first first month of Q2.
But that also is subject to making sure things are going well, if we feel we need to extend it a little bit more we will but generally that's where we feel we're on track for that.
And then post that we're again going to be.
Careful in terms of the timing of hitting the go button on our marketing campaigns. So we've been working on a on a big AD campaign that is gonna be ready to go beginning of me, but you know we'll have to see in terms of when we think that right timing is but we do expect at some point in Q Q2.
To ramp up the marketing efforts are really focused specifically on the mobile trade product and that also includes obviously social PR et cetera. So you know one of our more significant marketing campaigns that we've ever done for a product launch.
And then obviously marketing it to our member base as well.
Yes, no that makes sense, just maybe I know, it's probably a little bit early but could you just maybe touch on some of the learning center and kind of Atkins since late December some of the things you guys are have learned or some things you guys kind of looking at that kind of any trends you'd like to call out.
On what sorry on trade.
Andre just from like I guess, not really a soft rollout, but you said you'd do a phased rollout through Q1, and so just any learnings behind that that you guys could maybe cause I mean, mostly that was just around identifying areas of the experience that we have to improve I mean that really is the big one. So you know I mean, one of the big differences you'll notice when you.
When you download the mobile trade App and you sign up and you make a trade for.
For example, there's a new T D easy trade app in the market and they've just launched it and they're targeting the younger generation. This.
This is a night and day experience compared to that every part of that experience is designed to be a really cool engaging experience not only simple, but actually an engaging experience. So a lot of work has gone into not just the functionality doesn't work, but actually an experience that actually people will go okay that is it.
Cool experience right, so everything no different than what you see right now in the App in terms of the real time streaming quotes tick by tick that typically is not anything you would see in any of the the major brokerage at right you typically have to refresh so those types of things.
And getting the feedback on just the experience, which also includes the coffee doesn't make sense to somebody intuitively understand all of these different components. So I'd say those are the primary learnings that we're getting.
Along with obviously at this stage, you're always identifying some bucks. So you know more people to get on there the more likely you are to identify bugs that you.
Obviously solved and then once you've identified those bugs that obviously gets you to a level of confidence where you're like hey, we're prepared to release it from a waitlist and now anybody can sign up so generally I'd say those are the primary learnings that we've been focused on.
That's great and then maybe just one more question just broader on the overall.
Investments that you guys were talking about in the end.
Bob Campbell there can.
Can you, maybe just remind us some of the key priorities.
Outside of local trade I know you mentioned BTB payments, just any additional color on what kind of investments you'll be making this year outside of mobile trade.
Yeah.
Greg do you want to speak to that.
Yeah apologies you cut out for me at the beginning so.
Investments outside of mogul trade, so, yes, I would say number one.
As we talked about Carda.
We're making a big commitment to invest there we.
Our big believers in the long term opportunity we've got a we believe a number of exciting opportunities and obviously there. This is that the massive global Tam of over a couple of trillion. So obviously you think of MOGO as a b to C consumer business in Canada.
And then more of a BTB payments business outside of Canada, and again with the appointment of Alan.
To head up that team, we're committing resources and capital to invest there because we do believe that going forward in 2023 and beyond that.
That card it can be a much more meaningful component of overall growth.
We're continuing to invest in the card.
And in.
And that carbon offset experience.
As well as MOGO invest in sort of bringing in.
Moca.
Moca product into the broader MOGO ecosystem under the banner of mogul invest but those would be the priorities.
Yeah.
Great. Thanks, guys I appreciate all the color I'll pass along.
Thanks.
Your next question is from the line of Scott Buck with H C. Wainwright.
Hi, good afternoon guys.
Hi.
The first question for me can you remind us how.
How large of an opportunity do you guys believe trade could could end up being.
Well, yeah, I mean, I think look.
I think if you step back and you look at what is the market that we're going after here.
This is <unk>.
Today, initially just equity trading, but as David articulated. This is a lot more than equity trading. This is it is a next gen trading platform and ultimately that will include other assets like crypto like N F Ts et cetera. So.
We believe the opportunity is a lot more significant than just the equity piece, but the equity piece alone. It's obviously a massive opportunity.
We're.
Millions of brokerage accounts in Canada are dominated by the big banks.
And we believe we're at the very early innings in Canada of the.
The shift from the discount broker model into this free trading model.
Commission free trading model and mogul, we expect to be only the second app out there obviously with ultimately the plan is to bring in crypto into that account as well.
And we believe we're big believers that ultimately the majority of retail crypto trading will actually flow to those products.
Solutions that actually enable you to trade, both equities and crypto and we think we're going to be one of the first there.
So this is definitely an opportunity where we think there's an opportunity in the long run for mobile to get millions of users with a successful product and obviously, we have multiple ways to monetize that user beyond the monetization directly within MOGO trade because our solution obviously.
Includes multiple other products and increasing our share of wallet with easier as well I mean, a big part of mobile trade is going to be.
We believe it's going to help drive even accelerating user growth at attractive customer acquisition costs as well.
So I think there's a number of components of value to the opportunity.
Great. That's really good color I appreciate that second one can you provide a little color around gross margin. It looks like provisioning was was up in the quarter I'm curious what the outlook is there for.
Credit provisioning in 2022.
Yes, so really.
What I would say is we'd gotten back to.
Two from an origination level to sort of pre.
Covid levels on the loan origination side, which is the biggest driver of provisions from an accounting perspective.
And I think generally in the industry.
We've seen.
Metrics return closer to sort of pre COVID-19 levels.
So we think that the the.
Gross margin that we're at in Q4.
Is going to be more representative of a normalized state today I think there's opportunities for that gross margin to go up.
The other products sort of scale in the future, but I think that for 2022 is going to be in more normalized state.
But we feel again lending on balance sheet lending is going to be.
On a product and an important product to the customer.
But you know our primary growth driver we continue to believe.
I'll be on the subscription services side.
Great. That's really helpful. And then last one for me.
Kind of.
Strategy question, how are you guys thinking about.
Our investment in the business versus Jenna.
Generating positive EBITDA clearly you can do it if you wanted to but I'm just kind of curious as you look out. The next few years, whether we start to get a real.
Off the profitability or.
The opportunity is so large to continue to invest in the business.
Yes, so I would say look our.
Our bias today is investment we're going after a massive Tam we've got a lot of exciting opportunities with.
With the upcoming.
Full rollout of MOGO trade.
And as Dave said, we're really very early innings here.
We do believe this is a a winner take most.
Industry and I think we believe that mobile is is well positioned as one of only a handful of leaders in Canada.
With with the capital the product breadth the member base.
Et cetera, and so we want to be able to take full advantage of that and we believe we've got a balance sheet that actually affords us the ability to take advantage of that having said that as you pointed out we have proven in the past our ability to very quickly turn those growth down and get to profitability, we generated close to 50% EBITDA margin in Q2 and Q3 of 2020.
When we made that decision and that was at much lower revenue scale I mean, our revenue scale is close to <unk>.
70% quarter.
Quarterly revenue scale above 70% higher than it was at that point in time, so what.
What I like to say is we continue to have our hand on the growth dial and we can adjust that growth dial up or down the bias is definitely towards investment given the massive tam, but if we feel the need to turn that.
Spend dial down.
Certain degree and get to profitability faster, we believe that that's actually well within our control, but right now I think our bias is on the investment side for the long term growth.
Alright, great guys I appreciate all the additional color and congrats on the quarter. Thanks.
Thanks Scott.
Again to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad again that star one.
Your next question is from the line of Andy win with Raymond James.
Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my question. So my first question can you give me some sort of your long term view for clutter and what do you think the processing volume was up this quarter I remember I think it was 58% and that doesn't mean cargo revenue went up by the same amount in the quarter as well. Thank you.
Yes, so long term long term view on our opportunity in car to look I think our view there is that.
That this this is obviously a massive tam by by any definition and part of it is still a relatively small player.
In the sector.
And therefore, we believe there is significant opportunity to grow the business there with the right level of investment.
And I would say in 2021, our first year of really owning the business.
We were more just getting our arms around and understanding it and to make the long term decision on what level of investment wanted to make.
Now that we've gotten comfortable with the business and really understanding how much bigger the longer term opportunity is.
We've made the decision to invest in it and that's what we're planning to do so.
So look this is a business that that given its scale today and given the global Tam has the opportunity to be growing.
30% to 50% plus CAGR for a long period of time.
If we're executing and that's that's and we make the right investments and that's what 2020 twos about.
So <unk>.
Revenue revenue growth was not as high as.
Volume growth in in 2022 in 2021.
But it was still high and it really sort of depends sometimes where that where that volume growth comes from.
I mean, I would say in general we would expect revenue growth to be fairly close to.
To volume growth.
And as they say we're early days. We're excited we believe this is a very valuable asset in in kind of the ecosystem. It gives mobile a big strategic advantage, we believe in Canada being.
Being vertically integrated from a cost perspective as it as it relates to providing a.
Best in class user experience and best in class.
Benefits program to the user given our cost base advantage.
And we think it's a valuable asset in.
The overall payments ecosystem. This is a business remember that mostly most of the revenue today is outside of Canada. So it's also a business that gives us an opportunity to grow internationally.
Our general view has been that we don't want to take the mobile brand internationally, because that's where the big expenses in building that brand.
And then you've got the legal and regulatory compliance all those barriers that make it challenging for an international player to come in Canada Rob.
Bring that too would be there for mogul Blaine internationally.
But that's not the case with the card business. So it allows us to grow internationally.
Through that division.
That's great. Thank you for the color and my second question is on close quarter.
Shed some light on how we perform in terms of revenue in Q4, and whether it was profitable.
Yes, so points, where overall was profitable in Q4 revenue.
Close to about $10 million in the quarter, which as I mentioned in my.
In my comments.
With.
Meaning meaningfully from <unk>.
Sequentially from Q3.
So I mean, just just like we've seen in.
More broadly in the industry.
The crypto related trading.
Generally been going up and down with the volatility in the market.
Q4 was up about 40% sequentially over Q3.
And as I mentioned the business itself is very well capitalized.
And we think they are very well positioned from a regulatory perspective, which we believe is going to be one of the biggest drivers of value here, because Canada is really going to be the first cut.
Country.
Almost globally, that's going to be bringing this level of regulation to crypto.
Crypto.
And we believe quaint square is positioned to be.
The first fully regulated crypto exchange of Canada, which we believe bring will bring tremendous value to point square.
After they they get that.
Are those regulatory approvals.
So we're super excited about that and strategically they're a partner of ours. So you know.
Long term goal is for Queen square today powers are big one account.
And long term goals for Queen square to to power a broader crypto capabilities as we are.
When we when we do bring those in on the mogul trade side as well.
Thank you.
So for me I will pass that good luck.
Thanks.
And there are no further questions I will turn the call over to Mr. Dave <unk> for closing remarks.
Well thanks for your time today and we appreciate the questions. We look forward to updating you on our Q1 call. Thanks again.
Okay.
Thank you. This concludes today's conference call and webcast. Thank you for your participation you may now disconnect.
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Yes.
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