Q2 2022 Hudbay Minerals Inc Earnings Call
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Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the HUD-Bae Minerals Inc. 2nd Quarter 2022 Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session.
To join the question queue, you may press star then 1 on your telephone keypad. Should you need assistance during the conference call, you may signal an operator by pressing star then 0.
I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded today, August 9, 2022, at 830 a.m. Eastern Time.
I will now turn the conference over to Candice Brule, Vice President Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Good morning and welcome to HUD-BASE 2022 Second Quarter Results Conference call. HUD-BASE financial results were issued yesterday and are available on our website at www.hudbay.com. A corresponding PowerPoint presentation is available and we encourage you to refer to it during this call. Our presenter today is Peter Gekilski, HUD-BASE President and Chief Executive Officer.
Accompanying Peter for the Q&A portion of the call will be Steve Douglas, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Andre Lauzon, our Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, and Eugene Lee, our Senior Vice President, Corporate Development and Strategy.
Please note that comments made on today's call may contain forward-looking information, and this information, by its nature, is subject to risks and uncertainties, and as such, actual results may differ materially from the views expressed today. For further information on these risks and uncertainties, please consult the company's relevant filings on CDAR and EDGAR. These documents are also available on our website. As a reminder, all amounts discussed on today's call are in U.S. dollars, unless otherwise noted.
And now I'll pass the call over to Peter Kotilski. Peter. Thank you, Candice. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining us.
Over the quarter, we've seen a volatile commodity market and continued inflationary pressures that have affected industries across the globe. At HUD-B, we continue to focus on operating efficiencies and effective risk management systems in order to mitigate these forces.
As you'll see in today's presentation, we had a strong operating quarter with unit operating costs within guidance expectations and our consolidated cash cost benefit from our commodity diversification with higher gold byproduct credits. As a result, we have reaffirmed our 2022 production and cost guidance.
Beginning on slide three, we achieved a solid operational quarter, setting us up for a strong second half of the year.
Our consolidated copper production in the quarter was 25.7 thousand tons, in line with our expected quarterly cadence and 4% higher than in the first quarter.
Consolidated gold production increased 9%, another record for Hadbe due to higher gold grades in Peru and higher output at New Britannia.
Consolidated zinc production in the second quarter was 23 percent lower than the first quarter, primarily due to lower tons and grades at 777 as the mine approached the end of its life and the continued transition toward mining the gold lenses at Larloor with a corresponding decrease of production from the base metal zones.
Consolidated cash costs decreased to 65 cents per pound of copper from $1.11 in the first quarter. This improvement was a result of higher zinc and gold by-product credits and higher copper production.
Consolidated sustaining cash costs decreased to $1.87 per pound in the second quarter compared to $2.29 in the prior quarter due to the same reasons affecting cash costs.
Both measures were within the 2022 guidance ranges.
Consolidated all in sustaining cash costs decreased to $1.93 in the second quarter from $2.54 in the first quarter due to the same reasons I've already mentioned along with lower corporate selling and administrative expenses.
operating cash flow before change in non-cash working capital was $124 million during the second quarter, reflecting a marked increase from the first quarter, primarily as a result of an increase in non-cash working capital, higher realized zinc metal prices, and higher copper, gold, and zinc sales volumes.
Second quarter adjusted net earnings per share was 12 cents after adjusting for a non-cash gain related to the revaluation of the environmental provision and the specific asset impairment loss among other items.
This compares to an adjusted net earnings per share of 2 cents in the first quarter.
The second quarter adjusted EBITDA was $141 million, 28 percent higher than the previous quarter primarily as a result of the same factors affecting operating cash flow.
We exited the quarter with $259 million in cash as well as undrawn availability of nearly $365 million under our revolving credit facilities.
We believe that our current liquidity combined with future cash flow from operations positions as well to whether the volatility in commodity prices experienced during the second quarter.
I think it is important to note that as part of our risk management efforts, we enter into short-term quotation period hedges to manage provisional pricing adjustments on our concentrate fails
This resulted in our realized prices closely matching the spot prices in any given period and eliminates the risk of pricing adjustments post quarter.
Turning to slide four, our Peru operations benefited from higher mill throughput and slightly higher grades compared to the first quarter. We produced approximately 21,000 tons of copper, 14,000 ounces of gold, over 584,000 ounces of silver and 390 tons of molybdenum.
Production of all metals was higher than the first quarter.
As previously disclosed, full year production in Peru is expected to benefit from higher grades in the fourth quarter of 2022. As such, full year production of all metals remains on track to achieve guidance ranges for 2022.
Total ore mined declined slightly quarter over quarter due to higher amounts of waste being mined.
All mine from Pampacancha increased in the second quarter as mining rates in the pit returned to normal productivity levels following heavy rains and delays in the water management system earlier in the year.
All mills during the second quarter was higher compared to the previous quarter, and copper, gold, and silver grades also increased.
The second quarter combined unit operating costs in Peru were within the guidance range at $12.02 per tonne, lower than the first quarter due to lower milling costs and higher throughput.
Peru's cash costs in the second quarter were $1.82 per pound of copper, higher than the previous quarter, primarily due to higher mining and general and administrative costs and lower by-product credits partially offset by lower milling costs.
Cash costs are expected to decline with higher expected copper production and contributions from precious metal byproduct credits in the fourth quarter. However, full year cash costs are expected to trend toward the upper end of the 2022 balance range reflecting the current inflationary cost environment.
Peru's sustaining cash costs increased compared to the first quarter mainly due to the same factors affecting cash costs and slightly higher sustaining capital expenditures.
Moving on to Manitoba on slide five, but before getting into the quarterly results, I'd like to acknowledge the team in Flin Flon and their efforts over the 18 years of steady operations at the 777 mine.
Many of our work has come from multi-generational families of HUD-BAY employees over our 90 years of continuous operations in Flin Flong.
Since our discovery in 1915, HUD-BAY has developed and operated 29 mines in the Flimflam Snow Lake Greenstone Belt, and we will continue to evaluate future exploration programs in the area while we ramp up production at our operations in Snow Lake.
The last wall was hoisted up the 777 shaft in June the 17th and closure activities to safely decommission the mine and place the flint flunk concentrator on care and maintenance are well underway.
HUD-BAY employees and equipment have been transitioned from 777 to LALOR to support LALOR's ramp up to 5,300 tons per day by the end of the year.
Our sincerest thanks go to everyone in Flünflang for their hard work over the life of the 777 mine and for contributing to the success of the entire Flünflang operation.
During the second quarter, the Manitoba operations produced nearly 45,000 ounces of gold, over 17,000 tons of zinc, 5,000 tons of copper, and 281,000 ounces of silver.
Gold and silver production increased by 4% and 1% respectively, while copper and zinc production decreased by approximately 14% and 23% respectively compared to the first quarter.
Precious metals production increased due to higher throughput recoveries at the new Britannia mill while copper and zinc production declined due to lower grades at Larlour and 777.
Full year production of all metals in Manitoba are on track to achieve guidance ranges for 2022.
All mines at Lala were increased by 7% in the second quarter, while production at 777 decreased as the mine approached closure in June , resulting in an overall 1% decline in total ore mined in Manitoba compared to the first quarter.
Mine, zinc, and copper grades were lower compared to the first quarter but in line with the mine plan while precious metal grades remained relatively constant.
The combined snow lake mills processed 2% more ore in second quarter compared to the previous quarter tracking the increase in larlow's production over the same period.
The new Britannia Mill achieved higher than targeted throughput in the second quarter, averaging approximately 1,590 tons per day due to a number of improvement initiatives aimed at increasing throughput and further improving recoveries.
With the inclusion of DORE, the gold and silver recoveries at the New Britannia Mill have also improved significantly in relation to previous quarters.
Stall mill recoveries were consistent with the metallurgical model for the head grades delivered. Then they met on question boards helping them find a recovery generality at that moment.
In the last slide, Manitoba combined units operating costs decreased 5% compared to the previous quarter, mainly due to lower costs at 777 as the mine approached closure, partially offset by higher inflationary cost pressures for bulk commodities, fuel, and LALOR contractor costs.
Looking ahead to the second half of 2022, we expect combined units operating costs to increase due to ongoing inflationary cost pressures and the removal of the lower cost slim-slong operations.
As such, we expect the full year combined unit cost to trend towards the upper end of the 2022 guidance range.
Gold cash cost net of byproduct credits in the second quarter was negative $207 per ounce, which was lower than the first quarter and well below the 2022 guidance range as the operations benefited from higher zinc byproduct credits, lower operating costs, and higher gold production.
On slide seven, we begin our discussion of the progress we've made on our organic growth pipeline. On slide eight, we begin our discussion of the progress we've made on our organic growth
The most advanced and exciting growth project is our copper world complex in Arizona.
In June we released the results of the preliminary economic assessment for the Copper World complex, which incorporates the recently discovered Copper World deposits along with the Rosemont deposit that has been renamed to the East deposit.
The PEA outlined a two-phase mine plan. Phase one reflects a standalone operation on private land and patented mining claims over a 16-year mine life with average annual copper production of approximately 86,000 tons from mined resources.
Phase 1 cash costs and sustaining cash costs are $1.15 and $1.44 per pound of copper respectively.
Phase 1 generates robust economics with an after tax net present value of $741 million at a 10% discount rate and an internal rate of return of 17% using a copper price of $3.50.
Phase II expands mining activities onto federal land and extends the mine life to 44 years with average annual copper production of approximately 100,000 tons from mined resources.
Cash costs and sustaining cash costs for Phase II are $1.11 and $1.42 per pound of copper respectively.
The second phase adds $555 million to the after-tax NPV and generates an IRR of 49%.
The projected after tax in PV at the time of sanction would be $2.8 billion, which demonstrates a significant upside opportunity this second phase brings to the project.
From an ESG perspective, there are many benefits of CopperWorld. It will support US copper supply through onshore production of copper cathode expected to be sold entirely to domestic customers.
The production of an onsite copper cathode reduces total energy consumption and eliminates greenhouse gas and sulfur emissions associated with overseas shipping and processing.
We are also targeting further greenhouse gas reductions as part of our corporate reduction targets to align with the global 2030 climate change goals.
We are advancing a pre-feasibility study for phase one of Copper World during the second half of 2022, which will focus on converting the remaining inferred mineral resources to measured and indicated and evaluating many of the project optimization and upside opportunities.
The project and capital optimization opportunities will examine the modular nature of the processing complex at Copperworld, which can be flexed based on market conditions and funding strategy. Specifically, the pre-feasibility study will contemplate multiple options for developing the concentrate leach facility and upfront capital.
The permitting process for the Copperworld complex is expected to require state and local permits for Phase I and federal permits for Phase II. We recently received approval from the Arizona State Mine Inspector for our amended Mine Land Reclamation Plan for the Copperworld complex.
The MLRP was initially approved in October 2021 and was subsequently amended to reflect the larger private land project footprint.
We expect to submit applications for the other key state-level permits for Phase I of the Copper World complex in the second half of 2022.
In June , we released our 19th annual sustainability report.
with highlights shown on slide 8.
We are truly proud of this report, which provides transparency and progress on key accomplishments and initiatives in 2021, along with goals for the upcoming year and the long term. We believe global demand for the metals that we mine will continue to rise alongside the need for green technology that will play an essential role in meeting the challenge of arresting climate change.
We are committed to a reduced greenhouse gas emissions future and we are currently working towards specific emissions reduction targets to align with the global 2030 and 2050 climate change goals.
Last year, to better understand the nature of our greenhouse gas footprint and the best options for approaching and achieving sustainable emissions reductions, we began working on a 10-year greenhouse gas reduction roadmap.
This roadmap will identify key sources of emissions, including Scope 3 emissions and the nature of the changes, operational or technical, that will be required to make full or significant impacts in each source area.
We are also a proud member of the Mining Association of Canada and implement the Towards Sustainable Mining or TSM protocols.
These protocols are increasingly being recognized globally and adopted as best in class.
Our goal is to maintain a score of A or higher for all protocols and in 2021 we achieved a rating of AA across all TSM tailings management protocol indicators in both Manitoba and Peru.
We also saw a 7% decrease in energy intensity per ton of ore processed and over 50% of our indirect energy consumption is from renewable sources.
Slide 9 highlights the progress we've made on several of our exploration growth initiatives.
In Peru, we control a large contiguous block of mineral rights with the potential to host mineral deposits within trucking distance of the Constancia processing facility.
These mineral rights include the past producing Caballito property and the highly prospective Maria Rayna property.
Discussions with the community of which Ococo related to a surface rights exploration agreement on the Maria Rayna and Caballito properties are progressing well. We expect to finalize an agreement in the coming weeks before commencing field exploration activities.
We are also continuing to compile results from our recent drilling at the Yagen Porphyry target in northern Peru and remain on track to complete an initial inferred mineral resource estimate in the third quarter of 2022.
In Snow Lake we have been actively conducting drilling activities in the Snow Lake area with success in identifying extensions of the copper gold rich feeder zone at the 1901 deposit and compiling results from ongoing infill drilling at Larloor. And in Nevada an IP ground survey will be conducted in the second half of 2022 on the Mason Valley properties which are located on private land claims near the Mason project.
This work, in combination with the reinterpretation of geological data from past operating mines and previous exploration data, will be used to finalize the drill plan to test high-grade scar on targets in the future.
I'd like to conclude here on slide 10. We have delivered many of the catalysts which we laid out at the beginning of the year, and we are on track to continue to accomplish our corporate objectives throughout the balance of 2022.
In Manitoba we are advancing our snow lake gold strategy with plans to achieve 5,300 tons per day at Lalo as I touched on earlier.
We are also implementing a recovery improvement program at the storm mill this year to increase copper and gold recoveries.
We'll continue regional drilling in Manitoba to explore for base metal and gold up-site and continue to compile results from ongoing infill drilling programs at Larloor in 1901.
In Peru, we already touched on our exploration initiatives and we are also continuing to advance our recovery uplift and all sorting programs at Constantia.
In the United States, in addition to advancing the pre-feasibility study and state-level permit applications at Copperworld, we are continuing our infill drilling program with three drill rigs turning at site.
In summary, we are proud of our operating performance to date, which positions us well to reaffirm our full year production and cost guidance for 2022, and we'll continue to focus on generating free cash flow while prudently advancing our high-quality pipeline of organic growth opportunities to deliver value for all of our stakeholders.
And with that, we're happy to take your questions.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. To join the question queue, you may press star, then 1 on your telephone keypad. You will hear a tone acknowledging your request.
If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing any keys. To withdraw your question, please press star then 2. We will pause for a moment as callers join the queue.
Our first question comes from Jackie Przybylski of BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
Thanks, I'm never first. This is exciting. I guess congrats on the quarter. Maybe I'll ask Pierre if you can give us some additional colour on why your costs on a unit basis were so good in the Manitoba Division. Is that related to the closure of 777 or can we expect to see strong cost performance going forward in the rest of the year as well? Thanks.
When we issued our Manitoba unit cost guidance for 2022, we assumed an approximately 5% increase in consumables, which is why we're tracking in line with our projections, albeit at the low end. So 777 was a lower cost mine, so the combined unit operating costs will increase in the second half as a result of removing 777 from the calculation. Also, we're seeing continued increases in the prices of materials and consumables, such as fuel reagents, grinding media and contract...
Yes, so Jackie, we disclosed an additional $25 million of costs expected this year, starting in the second quarter relating to one-time cost for closure of the 777 mine and the zinc plant as well as to transition the Flint-Flon mill and tailings facility to care and maintenance. We expect the majority of these costs will be incurred in the second half of the year.
Most of that would be in the third quarter or is it evenly split?
Most of it will be in the third quarter.
Okay, and in terms of Arizona, if I could just maybe ask on permitting, I know earlier this year the C P
appeals court made a decision which didn't necessarily go in your favor on Rosemont. Is there a strategy to attempt to re-permit Rosemont at this point or how does that fit in with the plans for Copperworld and the permitting there? Is Rosemont on hold until Copperworld is...
Is that?
Is that?
I guess I agree that you could give me a very long answer, a fairly short answer. I'm going to give you the fairly short answer, and then I'm going to ask Andre to provide a little bit of color. But in essence, what we've done is Rosemont, as it was previously configured, has now been included into Copperworld, and we've renamed it the East Pit.
What we've done is the private land portion of Rosemont is included in phase one of Copper World and the federal land portion of Rosemont is included in phase two. So we will not be looking to re-permit Rosemont as such, but we will be looking to sort of re-permit phase two of the Copper World complex.
Andre, any further light that you might offer?
I think you covered it.
Okay, so the original...
applications are not going to be resubmitted. You're just going ahead with the CopperWorld.
plan as you play it out. Okay, now that's helpful.
That's it for me. Thank you.
Thanks, Jackie.
Our next question comes from Ralph Profiti of 8 Capital. Please go ahead.
Good morning, thanks for taking my questions. Peter, I want to get a little bit more color on the path forward at...
Maria Reyna and on COBOLITO.
Once the community engagement agreements are in place, do the drill permits happen commensurately? And just in the context of the 25M that's being spent in 2022, do you have sort of early indications on how much you'll be spending on exploration in Peru in terms of...
you know, perhaps meters drilled or what the drill program may look like once those permitting and engagement agreements are in place.
Thanks, Ralph. It's really hard to say exactly how things will turn out. So we expect to conclude an agreement with the community of Uchikako very, very shortly. And once we have concluded that agreement with Uchikako, of course we will start surface investigations immediately. You know, the question specifically with respect to drilling is one that we need to contemplate a little bit further, and we'll have much more detail available from that once we've concluded the agreement.
but at this point it's very difficult for me to provide you with any specific guidance. Okay that's fair. Let me switch to 1901 and we're still quite a ways from the March 2023 reserve and resource update but just wondering if the copper gold feeder zones are you going to be able to get that into say an inferred or measured and indicated category by the time the next reserve update comes.
I would ask Andre to respond to that, but I don't think so, Ralph. I don't think that, you know, it's 1901 still is in the mind plan for 2026, but more than that, I don't have much more information at this point.
Understood. Thank you.
Our next question comes from Ores Waukajow, the Scotiabank. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. Nice to see the positive precasual generation here in Q2. I'm wondering, given the lower commodity price environment, if you are at all tempted to bring down your expected capex investments this year or next year, and whether there's some flexibility there to try to improve precasual generation?
Morning, thanks for that. Look, we are extremely conscious of the current macro environment and the evolution of copper price. So we've looked really, really hard at all of our spending and basically we're truncating discretionary spending. So yes, we will decrease very significantly our cash spend over the course of the remaining course of the year. We think it's a good thing to do in any case in this uncertain environment.
but we're not going to do so in a manner that compromises the future ahead of us, but we will be reducing discretionary costs for sure.
Okay, and I realize it's early in the year, but any idea, kind of ballpark, what you're targeting for CapEx spend in 2023?
Well early in the year we're going actually spent yesterday with contemplating our next year's plan so it's early in the year for that.
Okay, um, just shifting gears to Manitoba.
I don't know if you had a comment. I was going to say we're not going to frighten you, don't worry.
With Triple 7 closing now and off the books, when I look at Manitoba operating costs, they've been running in the order of about $115 to $120 million a quarter. The
Where do you see that going with 777 and Flintlaw and the smelter all closed? I'm just wondering what kind of a rough ballpark run rate might be for operating costs now on a millions of dollar basis in Manitoba.
Sure, sure. This is Andrea.
So we'll update that in the coming year with the annual reserves. We're really fine-tuning the cost right now. We're just finalizing the transition of our people and getting a firm handle on all of our operating and holding costs. But like Peter mentioned on the previous question, it was dollars a little bit higher, and we expect it to be a bit higher.
We'll update that later on when we update our reserve statement later on next year.
So also I think you also see a little bit of an increase, a little bit of a sort of a bump initially as we go through transfer activities and which is stabilized next year as well.
Okay, thanks for the call.
Our next question comes from Lawson Wonder of Bank of America Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi Peter, good morning and thank you for the update. I wanted to ask about the Copperworld CapEx and within the context of...
the sulfide leaching approach that you selected, which is basically
the lowest capex option, which would be no heat, no pressure. When I look around the industry, that seems to be more the exception than the rule. I'd like to maybe get your thoughts on the sensitivity around capex.
if you do end up doing one of the more expensive options, like perhaps high pressure, low temperature, high temperature, low pressure, or both high pressure and high temperature, and then what the trade-offs are there around recoveries. Thanks very much.
Good morning, Lawson, and thanks for that. Look, I guess the first comment that I'd make is, you know, you shouldn't get stuck on sulfide leaching because it's simply a plug and play option module that's available to us that was included in the PEA because it's very, very significant ESG potential. It is, you know, it is something that we contemplated. It certainly does help the IRR of the project.
But it also, it certainly does not support capex. In fact, if you were to unplug it, you would reduce the capex by, let's say, $400 to $500 million.
So it's something that can be added initially, concurrently with everything else, or it could be deferred later on.
Now to your point about whether it's atmospheric leaching or it's medium pressure leaching or something like that, we included atmospheric leaching in the PEA, which remember is a very early stage scoping study, but during the PFS we will more closely examine the alternatives that are available to us. I would also offer that...
that sulfide leaching is not new to us. We've been doing it in Flin Flon for a very, very long time and many other mines have used sulfide leaching processes. Some I would agree are medium pressure, others are atmospheric, but we have plenty of time ahead of us in which to study the options and to optimize the flow sheet. So I just, I wouldn't get too stuck on the concept of sulfide leaching at this point. As I said, it is.
a plug and play module that we can include on off.
Thanks for that, Kolar. One sort of concept you introduced there that I hadn't really thought of was the potential to just...
sell a concentrate for the time being. How do you think about the timing of that, selling a concentrate versus doing the concentrate leaching approach, especially vis-à-vis your ESG goals?
We could very easily do that. It's a question of just balancing trading off the various options. I think on the one hand, we can produce concentrate no problem because we will have a traditional sulfite concentrator. If we sell concentrate, we incur the costs associated with shipping that concentrate to smelters. We also incur or cause some of the emissions associated with transportation. For more information, visit www.fema.gov
But it is certainly an option that's available to us. So as I said, we could initially start producing concentrate and defer sulfide leaching to a number of years later if that's what we chose to do.
Okay, thank you very much for your color on that, Peter. Have a great day. You too.
Our next question comes from Greg Barnes of TD Securities. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Peter, I just wanted to touch on the political situation in Peru. It sounds pretty volatile.
From what you're seeing, is it having any impact on the mining industry? Are there any suggestions?
from the current government about changing world diesel mining taxes. I've heard nothing, but I'm just obviously not that close to what's going on on the ground in Peru, maybe you have some color.
Yeah, we have it's been all quiet on the political front for us and I you know I was actually in Peru up at Constancias in the last
just over a month ago. I would say as I spent time with the workforce up in Constantia and the team in Lima, politics in Peru actually didn't come up once. So what I, you know, we read a lot about it from the outside. On the inside,
I'm sure people worry about it because there's a lot of uncertainty, but there has been no mention of changes to the fiscal regime. I think that President Castillo did not accept the resignation of his first minister last week – or this week, no, last week. So he's busy dealing with his own constituents, his own cabinet and Congress. I think that we will continue to see this type of volatility and –
before behavior in the political spectrum for a while, but it's not affecting our operations at all.
And I assume Castillo has other issues to worry about than raising taxes and royalties and impacting the mining industry. He's got a survival to concern himself with, I suppose. I think you're probably right about that, Greg.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. You're welcome.
Once again, if you have a question, please press star then 1.
Our next question comes from Carl Blunden of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. Congrats on your reaffirmed cost guidance given inflation that we're seeing in the industry. I wanted to ask a little bit more about that. When you look at the
current prices for consumables and energy, you know, those have come down a little bit. Are they still running toward the high end of your range of assumptions, or now close to the midpoint and you're just more playing catch up with what's transpired through August this year?
I think that we anticipated some increases earlier on in the year and we incorporated some of those increases into our guidance.
But we have seen movement of fuel, for example, ahead of what we included in guidance and energy in Peru, higher grinding media, which is very closely allied with the cost of both steel and molybdenum. We have seen movement of fuel, higher grinding media, which is very closely allied with the
So, you know, in Peru, of course, there is a stabilization mechanism for fuel prices. So what that tends to do is it tends to delay the effect of fuel price. So as fuel prices go up, they are not felt so markedly by the population. But as they come down, you still start seeing the sort of the delayed effect of those increases. So you know, I think that we still expect to see some increases of fuel costs in Peru.
while those are obviously less fuel dependent in Manitoba, but we have seen energy prices increase. So yes, in general we have seen some of those costs increase above what we allowed for in our guidance.
Very helpful. Just looking further out and the growth options you have, as you see the volatility that we've experienced recently in pricing both on the copper side and then energy costs.
Is this influencing how you think about potentially hedging costs or copper prices going forward as you get into a growth phase here?
earlier on, we do quotation period hedging and that's all the hedging we do. We believe that our investors would like full exposure to commodity prices and we offer that to them. We don't hedge. We believe that our investors would like full exposure to commodity prices and we offer that to them. We don't hedge.
As I mentioned in the discussion earlier on, we do quotation period hedging and that's all the hedging we do. We believe that our investors would like full exposure to commodity prices and we offer that to them. We don't hedge. Thank you very much. You're welcome.
This concludes the question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Candace Berlay for any closing remarks.
Thank you operator and thank you everyone for participating. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to our investor relations team. Thank you. You may disconnect your lines.
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