Preliminary Q4 2022 Deutsche Bank AG Earnings Press Conference

Onto the next year, and then I'll be back to you for the Q&A session and with that it's overdue Christian saving.

Yeah, John Allison on journalists.

Ladies and gentlemen did analyst I'd also like to extend a warm welcome to all of you now.

After two years of meeting only virtually I'm very pleased that many of you have come to town doesn't lager in person again.

Because I'd also like to 10 extend an equally warm welcome to those who have joined our annual media conference digitally.

Yes.

Now today.

Well looking back at a year that it was marked by political tensions economic challenges and human suffering.

Now this applies first and foremost to Russia's we'll progression against Ukraine.

Even after almost a year.

Images of the horror that is we'll brings to the people continue to stun me.

Now the same time I admire the courage resilience and solidarity also Ukrainian people.

Yeah.

It is our hope.

They will be rewarded for this and it is our duty to support them in their fight against the aggressor.

Now this is about nothing less than defending.

Our values and freedom.

The volt, ladies and gentlemen has also created serious economic consequences, especially with regard to the energy and commodity markets.

This has contributed to making 2022 year of economic challenges.

A year off.

If extreme volatility in the markets you have price increases not seen in decades.

Yeah Yeah.

A year of massive but necessary central bank responses.

Now all in all its.

It's been a year of complexity and uncertainty.

Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen.

Yeah.

The management board to say I'm proud of what we've achieved as a band condition environment as announced this morning, we closed 2022 with a pretax profit profit of $5 6 billion euros, which is an increase of 65%.

We have thus turned in the best result in 15 years.

Yeah.

Now.

This is indeed, a milestone for Deutsche Bank.

We owe this success to strong growth in our client business, but also to further reduction in costs.

Now, let's start with revenues compared to 2021, which was already very good year, we were able to grow revenues by another 7% to 27.2 billion euros. The highest figures since 2016, even though at that time, we were still active in more businesses such as an equity saves in.

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No.

This exceeded our expectations at the beginning of the year and is well above the 25 billion euros revenue benchmark, we set ourselves.

For 2020 twos this year at the beginning of a transformation.

At the same time, we maintained cost discipline.

We reduced noninterest expenses by 5% year on year to just over 20 billion euros.

Adjusted costs.

In spite of our increasing prices declined by 3% on a currency neutral basis, we're just as disciplined in managing our risk.

Something which is particular importance these days.

Our loan loss provision.

At the rate of 1.2 billion euros of 25 basis points of average loan volume.

Hi, It then in 2021 granted but in such a challenging environment. This is still a very moderate level.

With us underlined.

What has been distinguished what has distinguished us for many years now this is first loss risk management.

These results. These results show two things first how well we've held our ground in another challenging year and secondly.

How successful our transformation has been over the past three and a half years.

Ladies and gentlemen.

We achieved the key goals, we set ourselves in 2019 and this despite the double shock of the pandemic and award in Europe .

That back then no one could have foreseen.

When it comes to a post tax return on tangible equity we had set ourselves the target of 8% for 2022 today.

We posted a reported OTT.

Oh Gee of nine 4% for 2022 admittedly. This includes evaluation effect on deferred tax assets, but it still reflects our improved profit outlook.

And as you know.

We had already notified the market parts of these effects.

In terms of costs.

Shifted from an absolute target to cost income ratio over the course of the transformation now we had set ourselves so low to mid 70% target for the end of 'twenty to 'twenty two.

And 75% we remained in this range despite the cost pressures in an inflationary environment.

Finally.

We also kept our promise that we will always maintain a solid balance sheet during our restructuring.

Yeah.

At the end of 2022, our CET one ratio stood at 13.4% and thus clearly above our benchmark of 12, 5%.

When it comes to a leverage ratio, we delivered almost exactly on target.

Now.

These are just playing figures.

But actually they are the expression in the result of a men's efforts in rate achievements of our employees.

They have taken on our strategy from day, one and identified with our goals.

Despite all the restrictions and sacrifices cuts them that came with it.

And even though the most difficult times, they've given their all to ensure that we as a bank can be therefore clients in the best possible way.

Now this commitment cannot be overestimated estimated and on behalf of the entire management board I'd like to thank all my colleagues and our bank most cordially for this.

Yeah.

Everything that we have achieved during these three and a half years of transformation, we achieved things to you. It is your success story.

Ladies and gentlemen.

Let me take a closer look at what we have achieved in recent years in order to get where we are today.

Yeah.

I'd love to do this looking at the five priorities that we established in 2019.

Prompt priority number one was the exit from nonstrategic businesses and activities and here, we delivered consistently we exited institutional equity sales and trading and divested our hedge fund business as well as the I T subsidiary Postbank systems, and most recently our network.

Personal financial advisers initially.

Our impressive progress as reflected in the figures of our capital release unit.

Yeah.

Since the middle of 2019, we reduced leverage exposure from non core activities by slightly over 90%.

And risk weighted assets, excluding operational risks by more than 80%.

Yeah.

At the same time, we realigned our four core businesses, so that they deliver maximum value for our clients.

No. This was a second and as I see it most important priority because this focus on clients.

Is what enabled us to achieve a stable and balanced growth over recent years.

Forgive me if you've tickets.

Although we exited businesses and reduced our balance sheet.

Our revenues in 2022 we're almost 2 billion euros higher than in 2018.

At the same time, our bank has become much more diversified diverse diversified nearly two thirds of its revenues now come from our so called stable businesses.

A significant share of this is generated by the Cooper Bank and the private bank now after having suffered from low interest rates for a long time. They can now finally finally realized their full growth potential in 2022, both divisions have achieved double digit revenue growth.

And record results.

James will show you in detail later.

Asset management had a harder time last year's almost all asset classes experienced a slump.

Now against this backdrop, it held up well with only a slight decline in revenues.

And despite the decline in stock market valuations last year.

Now since the transformation began.

Assets under management have increased by more than 100 billion euros.

Got it.

Now this is not to diminish the performance of our investment bank.

With the with its focused setup.

It has shown a strong actually excellent developments since 2019.

Many had feared that clients would leave us because we no longer offer equity trading.

We consistently gained consistently gained market share.

Because clients appreciate our specialization into fixed income and currency business now thanks to the strength. We were also able to more than compensate for the industry wide dry spell in origination and advisory last year.

Now this shows that we are well balanced not only as a bank as a whole as a whole, but also inside of our divisions.

Ladies and gentlemen.

With us exceeded the earnings forecast.

That we made at our Investor deep dives in 2019 and 2020 in all our businesses.

I'll say priority was to reduce costs.

I've already touched upon this but let me mention the most important figures again.

Got.

At 75% cost income ratio is now 18 percentage points lower than in 2018.

During this period.

Reduced our annual run rate of costs by more than 3 billion euros.

Thus, we have shown that Deutsche bank can reduce costs.

Economize, something that you and others, but not entirely without merit huffed out at for a long time.

And we will continue to monitor our expenses closely in the future in order to continue on this successful path.

We will not let up on cost discipline.

This means that we will deliver the next 2 billion euros in savings by 2025, as we announced last year in March.

Yeah.

Over and above this we are walking working on additional measures to reinvest in our business and counteract inflation.

But one thing is also clear.

Cost discipline must not come at the expense of our future viability.

And this is why we promised and this is priority number four we promised in 2019 to invest accumulative 13 billion euros and art technology by the end of 2022 and to reinforce our internal control systems with a further 4 billion Euro investment.

Ladies and gentlemen, we did not only keep this promises.

But even made nearly 15 billion euros.

Available for technology projects in order to make faster progress in this essential area for the future.

But this is paying off we streamlined our technology landscape and decommission a number of programs in apps.

This is helped us to reduce our technology costs.

Hi.

Mm three.

100 million euros year on year in 2022.

Thanks to our strategic partnerships with Google cloud and Nvidia as well as our own progress, but are using more and more cloud based apps.

T alone we doubled the number.

Now this makes it faster.

And more efficient.

Unity, one of the most sophisticated and complex banking RT project ever.

It is now on the homestretch.

The turn of the year, we transferred 4 million private clients account from Postbank to Deutsche Bank systems.

Well immediately not everything went smoothly and there are still some restrictions for clients.

Alright.

Well, we are working on it and at the same time.

The team that's been driving the implementation of unity for years.

It's already preparing the next big customer migration that Easter.

Across the bank, we've also strengthened our controls among.

Amongst other things by increasing the number of employees and control functions by more than a quarter.

We are fully aware, though that there's still work to do in this field.

All investments in technology and controls.

We're funded with our own resources and this is also true by the way.

For the expenditure on the restructuring of our bank now this goal our fifth priority was also considered unattainable by many observers in 2019.

And the powertrain or half years, our CET one ratio remained above our target of 12.5% every quarter and generally fell slightly below 13% twice in that period and this was despite the fact that regulatory changes during this period negatively impacted us.

CET one ratio as did the cost of our transformation.

We managed to offset these effects with the steadily increasing profitability of our core bank, but also thanks to the success of our capital release unit.

Yeah.

At this point I'd like to clear up a common misconception.

Contrary to some pessimistic forecast this entity has done exactly what its name implies namely <unk>.

Fraying up capital Foods, a rapid reduction of risks James.

James will explain this in more detail in a second.

Now ladies and gentlemen, all this has laid the foundation for us to return more capital to our shareholders.

Yeah.

Now after distributing a significant sum for the first time last year.

We want to take the next step this year and propose to the annual general meeting an increase in the dividend by 50% to 30 cents per share.

Now ladies and gentlemen, we are of course aware of the effect that the dividend and this amount can only be an interim step.

Sharing our success with our shareholders is an essential part of our strategy.

We set ourselves.

Target payout ratio of 50% for 2025.

And.

We aim to return.

A total of 8 billion euros and capsule for the years 2021 to 'twenty to 'twenty five.

We are and remain committed to this amount.

Despite the uncertainties in the geopolitical and economic environment.

Yes.

Ambition is supported by the continued increase in profitability, which we also expect for 'twenty to 'twenty three as well as a robust capital structure now of course.

Share buybacks also remain part of our toolkit for the current year.

However, we continue to exercise prudence and wanted to retain a degree of flexibility regarding the next step.

Personally in view of the given macro and regulatory environment, we considered too early to make any statements of volume and timing for buybacks in 2023.

We are optimistic however that uncertainties will further diminish in the course of the year and that we will be able to reward our shareholders for their loyalty in this way.

Now already know stock market reactions are increasingly positive.

In July 2019.

The beginning of the war in Ukraine and Russia.

Has it increased by nine 2%, which was the highest level since the beginning of 'twenty I E. T. And this is before the entire market took a dive when the war began.

In the meantime, the shares.

I've made up a large part of these losses and analyst comments are more friendly.

With eight out of 17 analyst that actively cover shares currently recommending them as a buy this is almost half only two episodes raising now.

This hasn't happened for many years.

Okay.

We see positive reactions from other quarters too in the past 18 months, we received full upgrades from leading rating agencies.

Most recently in October of last year Moody's raised.

<unk> credit ratings for the second time in 14 months and in the midst of a period of economic uncertainty.

Now this is a very important signal of trust and confidence which brings to benefit.

But good clients can do more business with us and at the same time, our funding costs decrease.

Moreover, we received multiple awards across all businesses.

Tyler just one.

In 2022, we were named bank risk manager of the year by the trade General risk net and then for the second year in a row.

Yes.

And the year, ladies and gentlemen, in which risk management is more important than it has been for decades. This award is particularly valuable.

What is just as valuable and gratifying to US is the very positive feedback from our clients and the unwavering support of our employees for a.

Pos.

Yeah.

Now all of this encourages us to continue on our path with determination and confidence.

Now.

In a moment I will explain the next stage of our strategy, but first James will give you a more detailed overview of our figures for the past year James over to you.

Yeah.

Thank you Christian.

Thank you Christian and a warm welcome from my side.

I would like to discuss our 2022 financial results in more detail.

As Christian mentioned pre tax profit was $5 6 billion euros for the year 2022 up 65% over 2021.

Despite the headwinds in the global economy, we delivered our best results for 15 years.

The turnaround in profitability since we launched our transformation in 2019 is considerable.

Profit growth was driven by sustained revenue growth in our core business together with continued cost discipline.

At the same time.

Risk provisions remained contained despite the challenging macroeconomic environment.

Profit after tax was 5.6757 billion euros.

In addition to growth in pretax profits, we recognized a valuation adjustment of $1 4 billion euros on U S deferred tax assets in the fourth quarter.

Which is the result of our strong performance in our U S business since the start of our transformation.

This positive effect is a partial reversal of the negative valuation adjustments were recognized in 2019. Therefore.

Therefore, this does not have an impact on the amount of taxes, we pay.

This positive tax effect contributed about 270 basis points to our full year 2022 post tax return on tangible equity.

Let me now look in more detail at the drivers of this profit growth starting with revenues.

In 2022 revenues grew 7% year on year.

227 billion euros.

As a result, we have increased revenues every year during our transformation.

This reflects our more focused business model, which enabled us to offset the impact of business exits.

We demonstrated our ability to support our clients, particularly well in a volatile and uncertain economic environment.

Every one of our strong core businesses contributed to this revenue growth since 2019.

This revenue growth has been accompanied by substantial cost cutting.

We have reduced annual cost by around 3 billion euros since the pre transformation year of 2018.

In 2022, non interest expenses were 20.4 billion euros, which was down 5% compared to 2021.

Adjusted costs ex transformation charges and bank levies.

We're flat to 2021.

But down 3% if adjusted for FX movements.

We achieved these reductions since 2018, despite our investments in technology and controls with Christian has discussed and also despite inflationary pressures and despite business volumes.

Which are at a significantly higher level than what we expected three years ago.

Against this backdrop, we achieved a cost income ratio of 75% last year.

Above our initial ambition at the beginning of our transformation, but still down 10 percentage points year on year and down even 18 percentage points compared to 2018.

We have proven our ability to grow and invest in our businesses, while retaining cost discipline.

Okay.

Let's now turn to our risk management.

Our provision for credit losses remained contained in 2022 despite a slowing economy in the context of the war in Ukraine.

Provision for credit losses was 1.2 billion euros in 'twenty, 'twenty, two which is higher than in the more favorable economic conditions of 2021.

But still.

At 25 basis points of average loans it was still contained.

This is in line with the guidance, which we gave back in March of last year shortly.

After Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Okay.

Deutsche Bank's loan loss provisions as a proportion of average loans are significantly below our peer group average.

That is the result, the result of our high quality and well diversified loan book around half of which is in Germany.

And it is also proof of our disciplined risk management.

As Christian will discuss in further detail. We are also turning slightly more optimistic regarding economic development.

And all of this gives us confidence that in 'twenty two 'twenty three provision for credit losses will remain between 25 and 30 basis points.

And currently we expect these to be rather at the lower end of that range.

Okay.

Let me now turn to capital and other key dimension of our transformation strategy.

We finished 2022 with a common equity tier one capital ratio of 13, 4%.

Comfortably ahead of our target minimum of 12, 5% at all times throughout the transformation.

And we have faced not only the impact of absorbing transformation related costs, but also the impact of changes in regulation.

Together these impacts.

Half.

Resulted in a reduction of our CET one ratio by more than 270 base points. However, these impacts have been all offset not only bard growing profitability, but also by the success of Derisking in our capital release unit.

That unit has contributed around 45 basis points to our CET one ratio during the transformation process I will come back to this in a moment.

First.

Let's discuss our four core businesses.

Let me start with the corporate bank.

In 2019, we said that the corporate bank would play a crucial role for Deutsche Bank's refocused business.

And our 2022 results demonstrate that.

Revenues grew 23% to $6 3 billion euros compared to the prior year its highest ever level since the foundation of that business.

And here, we have recorded strong growth across all business areas.

Rising interest rates and business volume growth, including 18 billion euros in deposit growth.

And the 9 billion Euro increase in average loans during 2022 contributed to 39% growth in net interest income.

Fee and commission income grew by 7% during the year.

The corporate bank all some more than doubled its profit before tax to $2 1 billion euros, leading to a post tax return on tangible equity of 12, 5%.

Profitability was not only.

Driven by growing revenues, but also by a 5% reduction in noninterest expenses.

The investment Bank grew revenues in 2022 by 4%.

Growth was driven by our fixed income and currency business, which grew by 26% to $8 9 billion euros.

This is the highest level for 10 years.

Yeah.

The realignment of this business is a key part of our transformation strategy has paid off.

Growth in FIC more than offset the impact of significantly lower revenues in our origination and advisory of 1 billion euros.

'gainst, a backdrop of significantly lower activity across the industry.

Profit before tax and investment bank.

Once again, the substantial at $3 5 billion euros, although slightly below a very strong year in 2021.

This partly reflected a 6% rise in non interest expenses, driven by FX movements and higher bank levies than in the previous year.

The investment banks post takes R. O T. He was nine 2%.

The private bank also had a very successful year.

Revenues grew by 11%.

Or 6% if adjusted for specific items, such as the gain on the sale of our financial advisory business in Italy, and the impact of the Bj's ruling which impacted revenues in 2021.

We delivered solid revenue growth in both the private bank, Germany, and the international private bank.

We also attracted new net business volumes of 41 billion euros in 'twenty to 'twenty, two which include 30 billion euros of new net inflows into assets under management and 11 billion euros of new net client loans.

The private bank, thus delivered profit before tax of 2 billion euros more than five times higher than in 2021.

This was also driven by a reduction of noninterest expenses by 11%. Thanks in part to lower litigation and restructuring costs.

Adjusted costs came down 5%.

Rich partly reflects the benefits of transformation measures and disciplined cost management.

As a result, the private bank delivered the post tax R. O T of 10, 6%.

Let's turn to our asset management dws.

Which demonstrated resilience in a year.

Of very challenging financial markets revenues were down only slightly reduced by 4% to $2 6 billion euros during the year.

A 4% rise in management fees was more than offset offset by substantially lower performance fees.

Profit before tax also came down by 27% to 598 million euros.

Reflecting this modest decline in revenues and also a 10% rise in noninterest expenses.

The rise in costs reflected strategic hirings.

And investments in.

Technology and also a normalization of certain non compensation expenses, such as travel and marketing activities, which recovered from the low levels during the pandemic.

Costs also include an impairment on intangible assets related to our historical acquisition, which will be recognized in the fourth quarter.

Let me conclude by coming back to the capital release unit.

That unit has delivered on or ahead of our expectations on all dimensions.

The C. R U has consistently.

Has it been so consistently successful and freeing up capital from non strategic activities.

The unit reduced our leverage exposure by 43% to 22 billion euros in the course of 'twenty two.

And that brings us to a total reduction of 91% since the unit was created.

Since the beginning of 2019. This has contributed around 55 basis points to Deutsche Bank's leverage ratio, which was four 6% at the end of 'twenty, two which is in line with the target of approximately four 5%.

The C. O you also made continuous progress in reducing risk weighted assets in 2022.

At year end, our <unk> were 24 billion euros, which is down by 63% since the creation of the capital release unit.

And significantly ahead of the target of 32 billion euros.

Okay.

Excluding allocated operational risk or a W. Hayes D. R. W. A reduction since mid 2019 is as much as 83%. Furthermore, the C. Are you has also successfully reduced the cost of this derisking in 2022 the unit reduce.

Its loss before tax two 932 million euros down 32% year on year.

To see our U has reduced adjusted costs by around $2 5 billion euros.

That is more than 75% compared to pre transformation levels.

As a result as mentioned the suite C are you has been net capital accretive for Deutsche Bank.

As the benefit of all W. A reduction for our CET one ratio since the beginning of 2019 has outweighed the negative impact of the cost of Derisking in the same period.

This not only enables us to deploy deploy more capital to finance the activities of our clients and grow our core business, but also supports our aim to distribute.

More capital to our shareholders.

All in all the C. R U has fulfilled its mandate.

As we announced this morning, it will cease to be reported as a separate segment.

It's remaining portfolio will in the future reported under corporate and other segment.

That includes a review after 2022 a review results and now it's time to look ahead and for that I hand back to Christian again, Thank you very much.

Okay.

Yeah, Doug James onto video recently socks commit Amit bleakness Forney. Thank you James.

Springs is too.

What lies ahead.

The geopolitical and economic situation is complex.

No doubt about it but we are prepared for it.

And we have already proven in the past that we can deal with such situations. In addition.

The latest data suggest that the global recession is likely to be mild it and said.

Oh that it may even be a vintage altogether.

Okay.

There are many reasons citizen encouraging developments.

The Swift and decisive response by governments has had a clear positive impact and also stabilized consumer confidence.

At the same time companies have once again proven to be very robust and resilient and they are looking into the future with more optimism, especially since China reopened after the Covid Lockdown in Germany. The I S. L business climate index improved for the fourth consecutive months in January .

And the economic expectations measured by Research Institute Z E. W. We're back in positive territory for the first time since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

So the very mild weather.

He has also played a major role in energy prices falling sharply so that all in all we are getting through winter rather well now.

It looks as if us Europeans.

Just had a bit of good luck on all sides in a very difficult situation.

But what's next.

I economists expect that the German economy will be flat in 2023 and that they will even be a slight growth of one 5% in eurozone.

They believe that the U S economy will grow by 1.1%.

2020, full however, the outlook for the U S is less favorable for the second half of the year. This is due to there being a danger that says significantly high interest rate will trigger a recession recession in the second half of the year.

Now.

Okay.

I have no doubt that.

Both the fed and the ECB will continue to raise interest rates and it's important that they do ladies and gentlemen departure from this policy would jeopardize the fight against inflation and thus pose a risk to long term economic development. Now. This is why we are supportive of the central banks.

Hindering on their consistent course.

Yeah.

No wonder, let's see risk.

Now because inflation might be stickier than many people think.

So far.

We expect ER and easing off consumer prices for 2023, and then even more so for 'twenty 'twenty four O F N.

We should not lose sight of the risks included in this forecast.

Those come in particular from the labor market, where there is a shortage of skilled workers in Europe as well as in the United States.

So the reopening of China, which is of course to be welcomed could also have a strong inflationary effect, if Chinese demand for goods and raw materials were to rise rapidly during the year.

And this is why this is why ladies and gentlemen, we must not let up now.

So all in all we are now slightly more optimistic as I already said, but of course, there are still uncertainties and the volatility that have characterized the past year will certainly be here to stay to some extent in 2023.

<unk>.

Inflation is to present and other risks have not gone away either.

They supply first of all to the war in Ukraine with its unforeseeable outcome, but also to other conflict such as to tensions between the United States and China.

The 10 situation with regard to global supply chains has eased somewhat but they remain fragile and prone to disruptions.

Same applies to energy supply, especially in Europe .

The multi year refinancing wave, which starts this year brings.

Brings a number of challenges for companies and countries.

At the moment.

They're more confident because risk premiums have come down however, weaker borrowers in particular still remember well how funding costs saw it last year.

In a volatile environment with rising interest rates repetition of this cannot be ruled out entirely.

Yeah.

So we will still have to deal with a variety of risks.

But in the past, we impressively demonstrated that we can manage our own risks.

Right.

And we want to continue to do what we've already done successfully in the past crises years, namely managing our clients risks.

We help them to secure their investments in assets.

To gain access to liquidity and short term financing.

And two.

To hedge against those risks.

At the same time, however, it is important not to lose sight of the future. Despite all the concerns about the present.

The need to prepare for digital and sustainable transformation has not diminished at all.

And we are also working on this with our clients.

No.

Persistently high volatility due to shifts in the macro environment.

<unk> digitalization and transition to a sustainable economy. These are the three trends we highlighted.

Has the key economic drivers for the coming decade at our Investor deep dive in March last year.

Yeah.

Now we also explained to you back then why as a global House Bank, we see ourselves, particularly well positioned to support our clients.

These trends.

This is because we've been their financial partner and all matches three years and through every cycle and we know their needs.

Because we have a unique global network and can provide local expertise in around 60 countries worldwide.

Because we are an experienced risk manager and advise and have the balance sheet strength to provide financing and because we offer sophisticated products in modern digital platforms by deploying.

By deploying the entire spectrum of our bank for the benefit of our clients.

The past year underscored, how we filled his strengths this life and how much our clients appreciate our need us as a global house bank, especially in times of high volatility and uncertainty isn't gentlemen, more than 80% of our revenues.

Generated by the corporate bank in 2022 came from clients, who purchased more than one product from us.

Now this shows the depth of our client relationships.

We accompany our clients on an international scale more than half of our revenues generated with global companies headquartered in Germany were booked outside our home market.

Compared to 2021, a corporate coverage team increased revenues by more than 40% across our fixed income and currency product suite, especially driven, especially driven by FX and interest rate hedges.

So we are the risk manager of our clients and this of course is due to the overall environment, but it also shows how much our clients' trust in our risk management expertise and.

Clients also rely on our ability to find solutions for them. This is reflected in the many tailor made and often innovative products that we launched last year.

Now we are happy to say that many of these solutions now has a sustainability component.

Our clients demand for sustainability solutions continued to be high in 2022, despite the economic uncertainty that is good news because we must not let up in the fight against the climate crisis.

Deutsche Bank.

Continued to contributing to a more sustainable economy in 2020 to be appointed yet I can dov, whom you all know well as our first chief sustainability officer.

He cooperates with all businesses and infrastructure functions to ensure that we embed sustainability, even more firmly in our processes.

Develop attractive ESG products and solutions and in particular intensify and in particular and I know I think this is the most important thing intensify the transformation dialog to support our clients on the road to becoming more sustainable themselves. Now. This is the only way they can achieve.

The ambitious sustainability goals, we have set ourselves we have set for the economy as a whole now in 2022, we managed to do this.

We surpassed.

The mark of $200 billion in sustainable investments and findings that we set ourselves. Let me remind you that we had originally set ourselves Cisco for the end of 2025, and then brought it forward twice.

Achieving this now is an important success in the first major step on the way forward, which is to lasers to 500 billing errors by 2025.

Now.

Okay.

At our sustainability deep dive on March 2nd we will further elaborate on our next steps on our sustainability journey.

I want to anticipate is now just.

Just let me say, we have a lot installed.

And the state is ladies and gentlemen is not only true for sustainability, but for the entire bank.

At last year's Investor Deep dive, we announced that the transformation of our bank shall be followed by a phase of sustainable profitability.

Phase.

And which we use our strong position in all businesses in all four businesses to expand market share.

A phase in which we continued to increase revenues and profits without without letting up on cost discipline as I, just mentioned and a phase in which we generate significant amounts of capital.

And return.

On the one hand, we want to use this to make car distributions to our shareholders and on the other hand to reinvest in our business in order to enable further growth.

Of course in this space. We are also focused on making rapid and significant progress with regard to a controls and regulatory does that regulatory deficits that the partners still exist in some areas.

Gentlemen, this is just as important for us as an increase in profitability.

After all ladies and gentlemen, strong controls are the foundation for sustainable growth and we know that we still need to get better here last year, we defined the following goals and ambitions that we want to achieve by 2025 and today, we are reaffirming base.

And average annual revenue growth of three five to four 5% equivalent to a revenue level of more than.

More than 30 billion euros at the end of that period.

Cost income ratio of less than 62, 5% on the basis of a.

Roughly the same annual costs.

As mentioned at the beginning we are planning.

To make savings by 2025 that will go beyond the 2 billion euros originally announced.

Thus, we aim to preserve the space for investing in future growth in spite of the high inflation.

On this basis, we aim to achieve a post tax return on tangible equity of more than 10%.

While at the same time, keeping our CET one ratio at around 13%. Finally, we have set ourselves to target of capital distributions to shareholders totaling 8 billion euros for the years, 2021% to 2025.

The payout ratio is to rise to 50% as I already mentioned now. This continues these objectives continue to apply now is about.

Given the volatile environment than the many uncertainties.

The path to disco may not always be linear at mind here.

We have the right strategy the right business model.

And most importantly, the right team to be successful in difficult times.

And you want to get better every year.

No that's all supplies to 'twenty to 'twenty, three and please bear with me, ladies and gentlemen, once a January strengthen their confidence.

Absolutely so as things stand and thanks to high interest rates and the business growth. We expect our revenues this year to be roughly around the midpoint of our range between 28 and 29 billion euros.

Our cost to be essentially flat compared to 2022 and also I learned this division should be roughly where it was in 2022.

So all in all ladies and gentlemen.

This would mean that we can achieve yet another increase in pretax profit.

Sure.

<unk>.

This is what all of us at Deutsche Bank are working towards with discipline.

Absolute determination with absolute focus.

On our clients.

Times like these our clients do need Deutsche Bank.

We saw exactly this in 2022.

Need their global House Bank.

And the need for global House Bank will increase further latest ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you for your attention James and I look forward to your questions.

Yeah.

Non casino games.

Christian Thanks James.

And this brings us to our Q&A session now here in the room, we do it in the traditional way quick show of hands and then you will be answered on our list for those of you have joined US via Zoom now you've got two options on the one hand.

You you can add.

Ask your question directly.

Here in the room via Zoom. Please ask for the floor via the chat all you send us an email at annual media conference at DB Dot Com and you can ask your questions in German and English.

Well, we've got about one hour for our Q&A session and therefore my quick request is that you limit yourselves to two questions and the first round to give everybody a chance to take the floor and the first question comes from Tom Sims from writer.

<unk>.

No I'm I'm Thompson's today says the Lady and then motto, but yes.

Yes, Marta <unk> from Reuters good morning.

Could you please be a bit more elaborate on this positive tax effect, it and explain it to us.

And well.

According to the news in the fourth quarter.

Yeah.

Certain settlement costs for litigation and regulatory measures. We're also posted could you give us some more details on this as well.

Thanks for the question. Please forgive me if I answer in English I still do not feel fully.

At ease.

In Germany, and touch a Q&A session the DTA.

It is we have a net present value of the benefits of future tax savings associated with our tax characteristics. So essentially to do with past losses referred to as tax loss carryforwards, we have to value those on the balance sheet from time to time and when Theres Ed.

Evidence that the value of those tax characteristics has increased based on frankly, the greater estimate of future profitability of our U S. Operations, then the value of those attributes goes up.

And we run it through the P&L in this quarter $1 4 billion recall that in July of 19, we actually wrote off about $2 8 billion of the deferred tax assets and at that time, reflecting a more conservative view of the future value of those assets. So from time to time they are revalued in our accounts just.

With peers.

It's a bigger number than we anticipated and as Christian mentioned, we were seeing some of this as a likely event. This year. We also had a smaller amount in 2021.

On the litigation item, we really don't speak to the individual events are matters that drive our litigation provisions simply it was higher than we expected.

And I'll leave the answer that Mario Thank you for the question.

Danny.

Then the next question's on my list from micro mice handled spread all of Starbucks Financial Times, and then Hunter almost love of ZIP, but now first Michael Meyers from Handelsblatt.

Yeah.

Well it seems that the list is that fully up to date, well first adjustment, but the lady is not using the microphone interpret very sorry.

Yeah.

In the year 2022, this tax effect saved your return target I think.

Because I think it was two seven percentage points and the cost income ratio Ultra was near the upper range of what you wanted to achieve after adjustments. So against this backdrop I would like to know what went wrong.

So they do need of this tax effect to reach your targets and what gives you the confidence of where will all the improvements come from that will allow you to reach your targets in 2025, unless you have another positive tax effect.

Let me start with missiles months my first of all if you have reached about jokes chief today. After three years of transformation I think that is something nobody you would have expected. So we are absolutely satisfied that's a great result for the bank. The bank is in the absolute growth trajectory nobody would have.

Expected a stable business to grow the way they did and that gives us. The overall confidence also looking ahead that the more than 10% of return on tangible equity can be achieved.

So against this backdrop I think.

Should not just focus on the single tax effect alone, we've got a solid a robust and.

A bank, which is able to generate.

It's in a sustainable manner and gained market share number. One secondly, we've always said that we will have that takes effect in 2022 and last year to be fair in the beginning of the year and ultra in 2019. There are two things we had not expected.

Especially the terrible war in Ukraine, and if you look at the valuation adjustments. This year I think the advantage to marry well with one 2 billion and of course, the three or they are three or 400 million higher than planned initially, but I think that's something which is easy to understand for everybody and at the same time and that's something that is beyond the <unk>.

Our control, we had to pay higher levels into the European banking front and of course. There are also some impact over the last two or three years.

Related to the pandemic or if you look at the volatility in the markets and of course.

There's one all the other cost increase that was impossible for us to predict so.

Achieving this.

Return target of more than 8% or slightly below 8%.

We adjust for the tax effects, which we had not planned for I mean, we had included $400 million beforehand, and then I'd like to come back to another number well. We also had given ourselves a target which shows that in a volatile environment. We achieved what we wanted to achieve we said that the core bank World achieved 9% return on equity and I think <unk>.

James in 2022 we are at eight 5%. If you now take the higher loan loss provisions into account due to reward them. This takes executive to the 9%. So I can only repeat what I said Great result, this bank delivered especially all of its employees and if I then see that in every.

Quarter, we increased our market share is also in the last quarter in many areas and if I look at the start into the year, then I'm not worried at all about our targets for 2025.

And I think the 8.5% didn't call back is without the tax effect, yes, that's absolutely right. Yes. Thank you for that addition.

Thank you very much next question now all have Storbeck financial times.

Please wait for the mic.

Thank you very much.

I've got a question on Adani.

Last autumn.

You completed two transactions with all four of Donnie and on that Okay. She also accepted shares as collateral how many of them do you still have in the books how high are the risks for the bank and has there already been a margin call or will there be one and my second question is about dws Stephane.

Hopes no.

Quite frankly, <unk> says that the free float should be increased in order to make the share more attractive. What's your view on this and what do you think about Mr. Hopes suggests it should change the governance structure and also to possibly.

Get rid of the so-called kg ace structure.

Well, let me start and James you you jump in at any time. Please now Mr saw break.

I think you will understand that it will not comment on individual clients. If you cannot do so I can only.

Only refer to what James has told you in the most impressive manner that over the last 15 years and risk management in almost every year in relative terms, we did better than our peers and this proves that we've got our risks under control, but we can structure and diversify.

By them and against that backdrop, I'm really quite confident in this regard the second figure about dws no first of all I'm always happy about new incentives in the new impetus and that's what we need to otherwise we would not be able to make progress first of all I'm, absolutely happy about how quickly and Stefan hoops got it.

Cost him to this new job and what he achieved in Dws you know that 2022 was not an easy year in Indonesia environment achieved quite a lot and of course.

The fact that we are thinking about the ways to make the share.

More attractive of course, that's normal.

That's always what we need to do but theres nothing to announce in this regard and if there's anything we need to discuss that refers to that internally.

Thank you very much.

Questions by Huddle newsletter, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Please swayed photo Mike just a second.

Yeah.

Good morning, Mr. Saving one of the 2019 targets had always been to cut 18000 jobs now if I look at your head count and this did not happen.

Maybe you can tell us where you cut jobs and will you also increased the head count at the same time and.

Yeah.

They can seize is my next question I think you've got some more than two years ago. So where do you want to further increase your head count and then the second key question for me is about Comex.

No.

How many employees are currently being investigated and how many of these are current or former board members and what is Deutsche Bank is still facing in this regard. Thank you.

Now when it comes to a head count.

Yeah.

And I think that that's the difference to the numbers that you're quoting of previous years now there are three things too.

Bear in mind number one during the transformation. Mr. Most look of course, we also went through a learning curve and we went through a whole lot of internalization because that turned out to be more efficient and more cost effective for us. So we did not plan by positions, but by costs and therefore a lot.

Of external employees were internalized, we're happy about that because that gives us much more efficiency and I think it's about 6000 <unk>.

Job of this kind and then in the same period, there's one thing, which we did not do in spite of the crisis. We did not stop hiring people from universities graduate because I think this bank has to invest into the future. We always said cost discipline is important but piece not to the detriment.

Our ability to shape the future every year, we hired thousands of graduates which was also slightly above plan and then two more things too.

Take into account Mr. Mousa and also known as quite frankly, I think James So I gave you the number in the controlled environment, we increased our head count.

Count by more than a quarter, we now feel at ease, though I think we're now on the right track, but we just needed to hire more people in this function and the other thing and that's what makes me most happy is growth. Mr. Mosley. We are now a much stronger bank with much higher revenues and if you've got significantly higher revenues and of course, we also need to support them.

From employees.

And the businesses, but also in the infrastructure functions.

And all of this results in would be changed last year, namely that we switched on absolute numbers to the cost to income ratio because.

Debt.

Allows us to much better manage the bank into the future. So against this backdrop I think this is the answer to your question, but this does not mean, Doug we're not keeping a close eye on our head count and we've also been able to show you that we can decrease this now.

Now Unfortunately, we're not able and allowed to comment on comex. Because these are ongoing proceedings. So I cannot comment this any further I hope you will understand.

Thank you very much well, we now continue with Stephen Aaron's then Philip hub, and then Joe Philly Block Who're now firstly, Stephen Aarons from Bloomberg.

Microphone.

Good morning.

I've got two more two more questions. The first one on buybacks other banks.

However, bounds major buybacks and dividend programs Deutsche Bank did not do so although the CET one is above the target of 13% and in spite of the positive macroeconomic outlook you gave us so could you give us more details.

On why you.

Want to refrain from these.

Actions, although you said there will be share buybacks in 2023, if I remember it rightly then deposit better now how much is that at Deutsche Bank and what is this going to be during the course of the year.

Thanks, Ms Aaron's.

Well you you gave the answer yourself to the first part of your question, Yes, we will do buybacks that's part of our <unk>.

8 billion capital return between 'twenty, 'twenty, one and 25, which we committed ourselves to and we were going to stick to that no doubt about this I think you can see a continuous increase of the dividend as we also announced today and buybacks is part of our toolkit in this regard.

Of course, we remain committed to what we promised but and I gave you a detailed outlook onto reed geopolitical and economic situations, we want to wait during the next couple of months to see how the economy evolves first and foremost of course, we want to stand by our customers and clients, whom we want to support.

And I'm firmly convinced then looking at the order development in the past few years I'm, absolutely convinced that buybacks are part of our toolkit now no.

We have taken a conservative approach at Deutsche Bank, which served all of US available and if you've got a clear picture then it's the right time for us to take these decisions that I'm quite confident that we will reach that point in 2023, but let's wait for the first quarter next couple of months, but if it continue this now that I'm quite confident James.

Deposit beta so essentially how quickly into banks pass on interest rate rises to their customers we model that in our in our forward looking analysis.

As do all other banks and as you've heard from some of our competitors.

The banking industry in a sense is outperforming what its models might've suggested for a beta in other words, how quickly interest rate rises are being passed through to customers.

This interest rate cycle is quite unusual and two characteristics. One is the level from which we are moving in Europe negative in the United States essentially zero and also the pace at which we're moving in a sense I think the models don't capture those those entry point articles and.

We're traveling as I think many of our peers are well below the model betas, we would expect that to begin to catch up over time, but.

But while that lag is persisting, it's been a benefit to to the interest rate driven earnings of the banking sector, including Deutsche Bank.

Okay.

Next of Hong Kong.

Next question is from person size on Philip tank.

Good morning.

I have three questions.

First two with regard to the corporate banking.

The revenue increase was quite extreme.

Since 2019 revenue increase had been flat now that there are interest rate to have revenues go up.

So I'd like to know how much in percentage points is attributable to higher interest rates, how much of the leap and our revenues and then also additional question.

What does it take and corporate banking to be sustainably profitable.

And also too and the capital costs in a sustainable fashion and last question with regard to loan loss provisions.

And which areas, which areas, whereas you the most as it rather private clients, we take clients real estate.

What worries you this year.

Of your two questions, you'll see on page seven of our financial data financial data supplement we show the composition of revenues in the corporate bank.

Over the years and I referred to it also in my prepared remarks. So net interest income was up by 39% fee and commission income up by 7% and there are other components of our revenues in the corporate bank as well.

About sustainable profitability you know.

In a sense just answering Stephen Aaron's question, we've come from what I would call an unnatural environment for interest rates that had a significant impact on the corporate bank and also the private bank. So negative interest rates essentially meant that a big portion of our business. The deposit books were structurally unprofitable.

But we are seeing now the resumption or a normalization of that performance, which has had a dramatic impact, but we think that's sustainable because it is a normal environment to have positive and ideally upwardly sloping yield curves.

And so the the corporate bank can now benefit from that and I wouldn't call that a normalization, but we think it's sustainable.

But I think it's also important to bear in mind Christian referred to how we are serving clients as a risk manager as a payments counterparty as our global network.

As well as a lender and deposit take her two to clients in the corporate bank and as we build the business volume is transactions grow up as the assets under custody go up in the business. So too will our business right. So you are seeing it not just in the interest income, but also in other forms of income and we do believe that that growth in revenues is sustainable.

On the other.

No.

Who sets the iphones for them not hiding a shift spark some additional answer on sustainable growth in the corporate bank.

Yes, we do of course benefit from the interest rates, but the most.

Income is.

Outside of our net interest income.

So and I think this just shows that the underlying client business is very strong. This was also the case in the pasture years, but here, we had so to speak a negative compensation due to the negative interest rate, but the granite state with deposit space with.

Payments be it trade finance there is growth is just reality and when I look at the figures for the next two years and our plans I can tell you that the growth percentages will be pick up the growth outside of NII, which just shows that.

The growth of revenues the growth of the business is sustainable and in corporate banking and don't forget it's not just like this in the investment bank, but for cash management in global terms. The full rating upgrades that we got you know had an enormously positive effect because many large clients many institutional clients of us who use us.

Cash management for example have a list of the counterparty rating of course.

And thanks to those four upgrades, we got a lot of tailwind so I'm not worried about the sustainability of the business with an eye to reach a sustainable revenues in the corporate Bank also the same is true for the return on equity I'm very happy that this core business of Deutsche Bank is positioned as it.

And it will become even more enjoyable just wait and see now.

Nonetheless divisions.

Dan to antibodies, because we manage well we don't have any concentration risks you know that what's.

Yeah.

Raise major doubts with James or myself and now of course, when it comes to sectors or industries, where ever you have funding or refinancing risks and harnesses have to be paid you have to keep the iron Bowl no doubt about it for example, commercial real estate, sometimes also leveraged lending. This also.

Due to the fact, why our risk appetite was reduced already in the first quarter of last year because of course, we saw well have that now when it comes to the normal company client and private client business on a global scale and entered Germany. We are very happy about the diversification in our portfolio James already mentioned it.

Half of the loan book actually is based in Germany, and the lion's share made up of for example, private mortgage business was moderate.

Loan to value.

And we also have proven that we have great underwriting conditions.

Conditions and requirements you know so end of year with House award without this inflation will be higher but I think at a rate of 25 basis points. We are well on track and we can stand up to competition and consumer loan portfolio and particularly in mortgages first of all our loan to value.

So a conservative loan to value on the loan book as the first protection, but importantly, the structure of the German mortgage market is one where most of our clients have locked in fixed rates of interest for a long time on average 13 years. So the refinancing risks and in our portfolio are actually very.

Limited in over the next several years as that rolls over and that's I think an important feature of why we're confident.

I can comment on that as well right. This gets us to our first question from zoom buys off live blog called from AFP.

Hello, Good morning can you hear me well.

I have a bit of an acre okay.

My question is on the clients are you know.

Lions seems to it seems to be very very important.

We can feel there's a in your answers to space you mentioned that about 30 times now.

Can you give us an idea of how the number of clients has developed have very able to win new clients last year.

All our data revenues increased primarily because you penetrate clients staples, so you sell more products per client.

I Dunno, Santander said that they have 160 million clients.

Well, perhaps that will be a dream figure figure, but could you give us a could you give us a a S E cigarette ballpark.

So credit Suisse Goldman Sachs.

Perhaps for idiosyncratic reasons, but they will be laying off thousands of people.

Now one of the colleagues already asked about the number of employees.

And your head count can you exclude as you stand here today that there will be a number of redundancies because the cost pressure will remain as it is you know.

Thank you.

I start and James please add.

So that leaves a 160 million clients I'd love that you're absolutely right now but.

I mean, we believe this as an inpatient or wish but not as a target okay.

Right.

I mean.

We said the revenue increase is of course due to a deeper penetration of our client relationships I cannot give you the customer or the client figures in the varies in the different businesses because he now.

Every business and every division is different in that respect.

I think I just mentioned that when it comes to the corporate bank and investment banking, we have an increasing number of clients.

Why is that because as I mentioned, our ratings became better and we do see quite clearly that many customers are looking for an alternative to American banks, especially in investment banking and trading for example, it is what it is they want to have alternatives.

Want to have alternative banking relationships doesn't changes nothing about the fact that our American competitors of course excellent banks, but they wanted an alternative and I think this is also reflected in our market share. Yes, we have a deeper penetration of client relationships, but also additional clients and wealth management pri.

Other clients as well increase of clients here, we benefit from a.

In years growth, we invested in the in this area also when it comes to be Hot for example, additional relationship managers in Germany in our tariff gymnast as a clear growth path.

And you know I'd say, it's a mixture of deeper customer relationships and new clients, but what's important to me is that clients approach us and say hey, you're back and you can be my expert.

I'm, sorry, I'm looking down at the screen I shouldn't looking you're.

Looking at you I'm, sorry, I apologize so clients to appreciate our deep expertise and.

On a on a good path here briefly on Goldman and deal with Goldman any other figures well you know first of all I cannot comment what others to let me just say two things.

As with the previous question you know in 2018, we did.

Half to reduce head count. Unfortunately, so right. So this did this.

And if you take a state four years average, we reduced head count more.

More than our competitors, but some of our competitors increased head count considerably in the last one or two years and Theyre taking this back now so on your question, we will be saving the 2 billion euros and we have incremental programs that were decided in the management board. So there is no guarantee that we will.

Not by reducing head count.

Yeah.

And then and this that or the other way, but we also want to grow you know we want to invest for example in technology, we want to get stronger there. So that will be the honest answer to your question.

I hope this answers your question John Philip Thank you.

An update on the list of question as Microsoft Azure Cosmos, and he's available Fucky micro fiber retoucher ties them.

Good morning, Thank you.

I have a few questions on the C O U.

If I see correctly.

Port Folio has still not been reduced as you envisage total leverage exposure is still twice the size you had planned.

And the analyst consensus expects 1.9 billion euros on accumulated basis up until 2025. This is at least what I read in the consensus so I'd be interested to know as to whether this is in line with your guidance or if your guidance is different I mean the losses.

This also results from relatively high administrative costs will they be reduced markedly when you transfer back to the corporate and others.

And another question I mean, these are mostly trading assets why is it not being transferred to the less the tank. Thank you Rochelle.

<unk>.

On the assets that remain in the <unk> portfolio, that's moving into corporate and other I draw your attention to page 53 of the analyst deck that we published this morning, where we give you. The details of that portfolio. You are correct relative to the 2019. The original target. We set in July of 19, which was lower than where we are now we did raise that target.

And subsequently.

Reflecting a number of features including that we simply didn't attach the liquidity reserves that you see to that portfolio, which was about 6 billion, whereas about 6 billion at the end of last year. So we adjusted that target, but relative to that adjusted target, where we're below and comfortable with where we stand.

Answer to your question is this portfolio will simply run off over time most of it at this point is.

Has been work to the point, where we would simply allow the contracts to run off there is no clear avenue to accelerate that.

And therefore.

As the management of assets of that nature is quite different from what the investment bank does which are really a little bit gifts to your third question. The reason to keep it as a segregated portfolio is in a way given how different those assets are from the assets in our core businesses, you don't want to distract the core business.

Management, those client dialogues and so on with the questions to do with the CRE you. We can isolate it and we can risk manage it and see those those assets out to their maturity. We also show on page 53 by the way the weighted average maturity of what remains is about six and seven years.

On the cost side.

I would say.

We hit the target of 800 million or less than 800 million for the sea argue costs in 2022, it's still a rapid decline from here.

So I would expect costs supporting those assets to be half or even less than half in 'twenty three.

That $800 million and probably half again of that in 'twenty five so.

Costs, and particularly the allocated cost of the CR you run off pretty quickly, which means to your question about the remaining losses there.

With essentially zero revenues are a very small negative revenue item, it's really a question about costs being pushed out of the company.

It will drive the profitability of the drag of that portfolio to be reflected in corporate and other in the future.

Idaho and photos.

This does answer your question, yes, Sir and the next question.

Hi, Good morning, just a couple of questions number one can you give a bit of flavor in terms of customer behavior, when it comes to corporate and households.

At the beginning of the year and the second is the outlook for the investment bank.

What you see now and what should you expect and we expect in the coming quarters, including leverage financing. Thanks.

Yeah, let me start.

The customer behavior is a is as I try to as I tried to outline in my prepared remarks. This is.

In particular in Germany.

Cautiously optimistic.

But there you really have to also differentiate patricia between the clients. We clearly see the global corporates also in Germany navigating through all the challenges in 2022.

I would say in a in a in a quite mature and solid and robust way why because they have a lot of alternatives. They can move supply change faster than a smaller mid cap company. So the concerns also in the economy is different from large cap companies to midcap.

<unk> in particular mid cap companies, who have difficulties to pass on the prices they are obviously than more.

More concerned about the outlook and hence it is so important to get the inflation down inflation is the poison of the economy and hence we need to get control over this one so it's not actually such a sectorial question. It's in particular, a question large chips versus smid caps and hence the 200 billion support program, which in my view will not be even fully used.

But was for giving support and also moral support was the right signal actually.

The corporate world.

In the.

In the retail area.

From a credit behavior, we cannot see any meaningful or material deterioration be it on consumer finance be it in the mortgage area.

Have obviously built up their savings a lot through the COVID-19 time, they're benefiting from that.

You can see in certain areas you can solve that.

You saw that in the second half of 'twenty three that in particular people with lower income they changed a little bit their consumption behavior.

And when for different products, you could see that in addition to the corporates in this regard, but when I when I overall look at the strength of our employment market and if we manage to now get the inflation down I do think that actually we have a chance to go through 2023.

<unk> without a material decline in consumption also if the private people so.

If you compare to the second half of 2022 more optimistic but it really depends on sort of say at the background of the client and also in what kind of business. There are and on the corporate side, you really have to distinguish between large corporates and mid caps and small caps.

Outlook I B.

As James was saying and James should add but.

Look we had a we had an outstanding FIC business not only in 2022, I think what rahm Nayak has done and reorganizing the fitbit is exemplary and and we will thrive on that now do we see exactly the same amount of revenues in 2023 in the FIC business as 2022.

Potentially not but.

If I just if I just look at the underlying flow business in January than they are on their own full speed and I can see that people want to deal and want to do business with Deutsche Bank also on the FIC business. The good thing about the investment bankers that we are standing on three legs and this is under estimated we have.

Fantastic FIC franchise, we have a very mature financing business and with the O&M business, we believe and they are our first indications that the O&M business in 'twenty three is coming back not to a degree like we have seen it in 'twenty, one, but it's coming back and that will in my view compensate for a potential decline in the FIC business. So.

In this regard I'm I'm very positive on the investment banking and as I said January has shown that we have here on the right track.

I'd only add I completely agree with Chris Christian's comments.

I, sometimes think of it as a transition from macro to micro sort.

Our macro had an extremely strong 2022.

And then the microeconomic economic products, so episodic transactions financings in an M&A equity debt capital markets in particular leverage debt capital markets and the credit sort of asset classes of Hull 2022 was a very weak year in our case, we were fortunate as Christian mentioned the the Mac.

<unk>.

Businesses performed and spectacular way.

And and so as we transition you can see.

A reasonably consistent revenue performance, but with an underlying sort of portfolio mix shift there and again that makes us feel quite good about the buffet. The franchises, we have and the mix of businesses that we have for today and thank you for the question.

Thank you and then we have another zoom question, which comes from Isabella <unk> with in solar.

With mine and thank you for the opportunity I have two questions.

First question is on the global Deutsche Bank, and if I'm not mistaken 50% of your revenues come from outside of Germany. So the global business is.

It's important to end to Italy.

And your biggest markets outside Germany, so all important to us in the Italian market contribution to your results and then if I may go back to the capital release unit and a question on your overall assessment because I remember Midland.

It meant when you launched it its a very unique tool and do you think this has worked well and as it is called the capital release unit.

What is the capital aspect of it.

5 million billion capital issues have been released we gave thank you.

Thank you Isabella let me take the first question and James will take the second one first of all we Miss you here in Frankfurt, you're always a visitor to Frankfurt. So next year you are coming here personally too.

And yes, Italy remains a key market for Deutsche Bank, There is no doubt.

Actually I was there last year in June from the 14th to 16th I enjoyed it and so definitely it's a it's on our key markets.

And I can even tell you isabela that the 50% of our siding was only with the corporate relationships.

Which we have here in the whole market that with the whole names in Germany of the corporate names, we even do more than 50% of revenues.

With them outside Germany, the overall revenues and James will have the number outside Germany is even higher than 50%.

We should be around 60, or even higher than 60% James but you would know these numbers and as I said.

We committed to 60 countries I do think in a in a situation where we are right now that you need global expertise, but also reaching into how this global network is essential for our clients.

And therefore, our strategy to be in Asia to be in the U S and in North America and parts of South America.

But of course, one of the key players in Europe , and obviously also the middle East and in Europe , Italy is the strongest market for us after Germany, and you will understand that.

This shall not change for Deutsche Bank.

Thank you for the question on C are you. So so there are a number of ways of of.

Estimating the capital that was released by the CRE you over its lifetime.

Dave tumor numbers in the prepared remarks, one was 55 basis points of leverage exposure and the other was 45 basis points. If you look at the CET one ratio and the calculation. There is if you start on June 30th of 2019 and carry forward the difference in those in the denominator.

And those ratios.

That's your benefit and you would subtract from that the neighborhood.

The net losses that were accrued over that three and a half year period of time to get a net number of 55 on the leverage ratio or 45 basis points on the on the CET one the other way to look at it as Isabela as you correctly point out is the tangible common equity we finished the fourth quarter with an average allocated tangible common equity too.

The capital release unit of about $2 7 billion.

And relative to where we started which I think was at a six and a half.

It's a it's a very big reduction in that allocation and is a big part of of how we have shifted the way that the capital is allocated in the organization as a whole towards the core businesses incidentally towards the corporate bank and private bank as part of our strategy and away from from the businesses that were deemed noncore.

Time.

In Finland.

Quotas are playing habits alright, another quick update I've got another 10 names on my list. So we have to start to move.

Minding the time Barbour said in consumer no one from Mama as to what would be next and.

So firstly the police Barbara Shader from stood carloads item.

Thanks, a lot.

Mr Von Moltke now you got me confused can you repeat that explanation. So that released capital as you said would be about 4 billion euros that was my first question and secondly, Mr. Saving regarding asset management, you referred to the difficult circumstances of last year, Yes of course, but there was.

Total net outflows of 20 billion euros.

Is that also due to the greenwashing allegations against Dws, and how do you want to regain and rebuild confidence.

Where I was heading with the remaining capital out how much was released the remaining tangible common equity on an average basis in the fourth quarter allocated to see are you you can see that on page 24 of our of our financial data supplement is 2.7.

On to Henrik lift there.

Yes, and then also.

Most of a follow up question.

Yes, maybe we can take the follow up first yes, but how much was released.

I understood 2.7, starting point was $6 five so the difference would be 4 billion like 4 billion that's correct.

But I can get you as a follow up the number of where we started on a on a restated basis at the end of 2018 for example, I'll follow up for you with that number. It gives you the the precise difference.

Answer your honor in Fargo.

And to your other question now first of all.

These kind of allegations of course never good for business, but if you look at our peers.

And.

All in all if you look at development over the years than DBS has not only developed in an outstanding manner, but it has shown that was able to increase its reputation and managed a turnaround so for that reason, especially for the second half of 'twenty 'twenty. Two we saw a significant improvement and in terms of class.

<unk> now to be honest there there was hardly any trouble there further details.

We will certainly be answered by dws switches publishing into numbers today as well.

Right. So this has had.

All the answers for Mercedes Fine then we will continue with Ms Xun or from FHA.

Good morning.

I've got two questions no I I've understood that you're not too much worried about loan default neither from private consumers know from corporates and you several times.

Pointed out that you attach great importance to internal risk management and monitoring hit I would like to know whether in 'twenty to 'twenty. Three are also already in 2022. This has been adjusted.

So if there has been a kind of credit crunch, which means that the loans.

Granted anymore, because you just raised to borrow or tightened your.

Criteria, but then the strategy forward.

I mean you.

It sounds like a bit kicking the can down the road, which is not too bad but on the other hand, our investors also getting a bit nervous or getting them excited so that you've got to tell them that what's coming after restructuring I mean somebody will have to ask the question. So I do so for example about potential merger.

But I mean, that's that's the white elephant in the room or you could also stay on your own I'd like to know whether you're thinking about these things because I do not believe that you're not thinking about it at all.

Well I did not say that I'm not thinking about the strategy of Deutsche Bank. So.

Credit default or tightening the credit granting criteria well it depends on the sector and leverage lending for example in the first quarter.

Our risk appetite for new funding was already lowered and it is similar for the one or the other financing projects in commercial real estate. So Fortunately and that's what most of our mortgages slide has so unfortunately, we're coming.

From a very conservative risk management basis, so there's not such a major need for adjustment, but you can see it every week every month and that's all.

That's also important in our risk management now we also have to see what customers are using it in 2022 with so many customers spend for short term financing because they wanted to show you that liquidity and that they rather call called fewer long term financing off the same goes for.

The construction industry if interest.

Cost of material increase due to inflation then we also see a decrease in housing credits. Fortunately, we also well diversified that we can compensate for this and other businesses. So here customer demand is the one that matters and then strategy.

Well, we do have a clear strategy, which we also.

<unk> communicated to you in March 2022 and this is just an evolution not a revolution, we feel at ease with the four businesses in four divisions, but we know that in each of these divisions and also in each of our infrastructure units, we still cannot have to get better and for that reason.

We all know exactly what we need to do until 2025, when it comes to our client facing units or infrastructure units and then the last three years. It really paid off that we focus on ourselves alone. We are more advanced than than many thought we got where we wanted to get and if in 2025.

We have got more than 10% in this environment, that's something I'm fully convinced of that let's wait and see what happens then.

Thank you very much next question, Frank Mount milestone from Plateau brief well.

Thanks, a lot now in fall, we had the wonderful IPO of Stuttgart based carmaker you were also a bit involved in it but only a bit or not.

Not the way it should be and obviously this was also a bit of an issue at your company that this was not so pleasant now what are the consequences you've drawn from that to avoid this from happening again did you did you talk to them.

I mean, you you said that you exited equity trading and this did not have an impact but maybe it did could you. Please elaborate on how you're going to handle this and how you want to avoid this in the future.

Well.

I cannot guarantee you that this is not going to happen again, but we will leave no stone unturned to get better on our side small myself what can I tell you of course this hurt us very much. It hurt me very much because that was an IP IPO, which we would have loved to be part of but you've got to respect the client's decision.

And the good thing is.

But that's for clients to say, it's always it sounds better if they say themselves, but I think we contributed very much to the successful IPO of Porsche.

As an absolute leading retail coordinated that's also the feedback that we got we learned we were not that good.

But that that stays internally.

No. So what we learned is it stays in the house I can tell you that we did learn our lesson of course, that's obvious and good thing is that we see exactly that attitude and our team that's lagging sports if I if I lose a tennis match then that's got to accept it but I.

I've seen how it can better and that's what we do here as well and if if you look around in Germany, and Europe , if you're involved in nine out of 10 Ipos on a local basis. Then this shows we are their RB Alright next we've got Sidibe auto Thomas Baumgardner and Chris Pink.

First Filip auto.

Thanks, Mr. Saving please please help me.

Now I've read a sentence in your employee led to think that in global competition, we're going to get into the attack mode. Now as you choosing your words very deliberately the sounds more than just growth now what do you mean by buy attack what does this mean in global competition will do.

You want to take.

Take market share gained market shares while I'm not going to give you. The exact details, but I think if we win market shares on a consistent basis. Then this is means attacking for me that's positive competition then.

What was most important to three and a half years ago to identify and identified those businesses will be Scott the potential the possibility to attack.

Whether it's the corporate bank, whether it's the FIC business, whether it's in wealth management, which Claudia Disantis crew.

Created in Asia, and how we are winning market shares there. That's outstanding just just after this conference look at the wealth management resulted in fourth quarter versus our peers. All that's something we do not have to hide that that means a tech.

Attack doesn't mean that we have to resort to.

Inorganic measures.

We want to grow where we are strong and we've got the capacity is for that and that's a positive kind of attack.

Yeah.

Mr. Amit.

On a medium comprehensive homeowners really stupid provide Mr.

Women since you need to feed in Zambia desktop subscription you have to invest its iron ore.

<unk> gotten used to do that are going to be to single out one that doesn't cost us as you know manav can shift on gay Bloomington as he needs to clean.

When investing IPO Orfali Illuminator Flynn.

And what ended up happening as well.

Well when I live in division things without knocked vessels or in other systems in supercuts Ottava wafers art gun's canola sudden incident, but I can tell us about ambition mirror hit in Washington.

Although it isn't the Andes and talk.

You know they stay.

It's not what we want to communicate but.

You know what I can tell you one thing we have good and constructive discussions at the management board the GMC and also as our direct reports I think Tonight, we have several thousand people that we're talking to and we will be addressing weaknesses my ugly I'm and if we can do more on the cost side, we have to do more there and then.

I meant it when I said in my speech that when it comes to remediation.

Our regulatory controls et cetera, we do have to make progress in 2023, no ifs and buts and if I say that it will show you that.

You cannot be satisfied with everything all the time, you know there's matter from Frankfurt and like person. Mr. Saving. Thank you much you started off very emotionally with Russia, but you still have more than 800 million euros in terms of loan commitments, how do you want to bring that down.

And what are the precautions of provisions ditches.

You see some pressure because there's others are bringing competitors are bringing it down faster and how many of your people moved to Germany.

And add look we arm the remaining book in Russia is almost exclusively lending to multinational corporates subsidiaries, a multinational corporates in Russia.

We've actually brought that book down I think pretty considerably and in particular in the contingent book, we've done no new business in Russia, and we are in the process of winding down consistent with our contractual obligations regulatory obligations to clients and the regulators domestically. So we're quite pleased with the progress there equally related.

The Russia Tech Center, I think that Mike and his team were very very quick and agile and first of all reducing our reliance on on those development, our developer capabilities resources and shifting to other centers opening the center in Berlin, We've made significant progress, we're not going to share individual.

<unk>.

Of resources and the two locations, but suffice it to say that we've we've made a lot of progress in replacing the capabilities that we were previously looking for from a Tech center in Russia or prior to the war.

Besides gave us into form it is to say I mean, because the only thing I'd like to add is that we always said, we continued to reduce things to bring it down but when it comes to our global companies that have subsidiaries there.

We will bring things down in lockstep with them.

So necessarily than this takes time, so it's totally in line with our strategy and what we set out we would be doing.

If your question answer Mr Bomgardner, John which comes from Chris <unk> from <unk>.

Chris can you hear us.

Yes, yes.

Thank you very much indeed.

I just wanted to take care about you gave some outlook.

For the investment bank in the current year.

And you said that.

January started well.

To what extent do you think the elevated <unk>.

Most of the fixed business last year were a new normal which.

We can expect for sometime to come or is it is it is how much of it is a temporary thing relates to.

The events of.

Last year.

Secondly, I'd just quite large I know you've been talking quite a lot about.

Actual real estate.

Did you think that there might be surprises there looking at some maturities coming up in <unk> and.

Tenants might reorganize the portfolios in Europe .

So Chris maybe I'll start on the first and Christian May take the second and we can add thoughts.

It's an interesting question you asked because I remember several years ago. There was this idea that there was a secular downward drift a fifth of the total effect revenue wallet and within which you had some some cyclical behaviour as well I do think and I'm going to speak my own opinions, but obviously if after discussion with Rob I do think we've turned a corner and there is a.

Secular increase in FIC revenues coming on.

We're in the middle are for a steadily started and there will be cycles around that secular increase 2022 no doubt.

It was a high point in the cycle, but I think the underlying benefit is there or improvement is there. What is the reason for that I think the level of indebtedness in the world will continue to grow perhaps shift a little bit by country region corporate sovereign or what have you, but the support for that will continue I think in a in an environment where.

There.

Long term liability holders need to continue to service those liabilities pension asset life insurance assets and what have you.

That is going to continue and we're going to have a large generation of pensioners coming with it with the baby boom.

The complexity of the market's there.

More countries coming into developed currency locations and issuance.

Currencies in all of those things I think speak for secular growth in the business. We think we're well positioned around that both in our issuance and in market, making and institutional sides of our business. So we think there is a good trend that began in and fixed income and our arm.

The outlook, we would have is that that will continue.

And to your second question I didn't mean that that Oh, when I said that obviously the commercial real estate sector is a sector, which we need to watch.

I don't have now specific concerns.

Our specific areas, but I do think that with obviously the higher interest.

And in the refinancing.

For some of our borrowers and for the overall environment is getting more challenging and that means that you need to obviously monitor it very closely again I do think from the structure of the book is all of years presenting at <unk>.

Again diversified good ltvs.

And I think strong underlying.

Strong underlying developments or strong underlying assets and therefore, I'm not particularly concerned but from an overall segment point of view. It is one which needs a my view more watching than a normal corporate segment.

Chris I hope that covers your questions.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

And one of a few or no.

With four names on the list, we will just about being able to do this work in place not necessarily nothing is cleaner and a second question from what Ive started so not complex now from D. A R. D play Shneur from holiday VDI news.

Right.

I have a question on possibly.

The credit defaults for example is already onset, but Buffin award just recently that due to an increase in interest rates. My many Smes might go bankrupt tenant you share. These concerns and then consolidation of the European banking sector. Mr. Saving you always talked about this.

You said that the banks have to do their homework and particularly the comments bank commence bank now posted a ability and a profit in the billions now what would it be a good moment again for a German merger might you be interested in parts of <unk>.

<unk> Suisse or do you believe that you will raise.

To glory again without any.

How much is in acquisitions well of course, let me say, let me do away with one room that I never said that banks have to do their homework I said, we have to do our homework and I'm happy about that.

Profit of Comat spunk, but when I talk about homework and people doing their home, but I always talk about our own bank and not about others now.

<unk> gone bankrupt I think we should be very cautious about this because German economy, and it's very very difficult year 2022 has proven to be incredibly robust and resilient, we have wonderful family companies Sma's.

And its science companies, who do everything they can in order to to go through these very difficult years, yes, perhaps we might see an increase in bad and then solvency in 2023 more so than in 2022, but a wave of bankruptcies in the people talking about a wave of bankruptcies I think that's it.

Saturation, but should come down perhaps a little we don't see it in our portfolio now talking from my position as President of the Banking Association I don't see there is that and also my colleagues and the same is true for the savings banks for examples.

First one to have a very good overview, yes, there might perhaps be a high number of insolvencies, but I would never talk about an insolvency Weil for example, and there's no data to there's no data to support.

Support is you know consolidation banks' consolidation, yes, there will probably be consolidation.

But it's not on my plate at the moment, we want to grow under our own steam Okay. We will continue with.

A brief questions embrace ounces honestly it got sometimes inside them.

Quick question, but I would like to have a comprehensive answer if I may.

Okay. This is postbank or the integration of Postbank I T.

Yeah.

You mentioned in your speech, Mr. Saving and also before the annual media conference that you spent a lot of money.

For moving into the cloud now the first product is on the market and obviously the market doesn't like it too much so how fast will it be incorrect thing that.

I mean.

I mean do we have to expect from the beautiful new cloud world that it will be less expensive and more efficient for the bank, but actually not very much in line with the expectations of the clients.

Well yeah.

Very happy about the migration and how it was done over Christmas and new year and what they are forming.

Clients and accounts were migrated and yes, we did have individual problems in particular on Monday morning, and then Tuesday.

I mean, the failure that's weighed on Thursday had nothing to do with the migration has all the technical migration of assets and customers et cetera went absolutely smooth slipped.

But then when it comes to but on Thursday morning, we have problem with online banking, we're awfully sorry, and now we've got to learn from that we can certainly get better here.

We had a couple of thousand complaints I mean every complaint is phone complain too much but if you migrate 4 million clients and accounts. You know this is still something that you shouldn't be negative only but this was the biggest and most complex migration in the European banking system since.

We had to start from migration. So I know I think kudos to Mr. Like it and kind of follow onto teams and how they manage to do things, but one is also they once it's also very clear. This is one of the things that happens and <unk>.

Sections that happens shouldn't happen and they will of course to everything they can in order to make things even more smoothly around Asa for the next migration.

You asked about online mobile banking and the cloud capability, so as Christian just outlined.

The new year's transition was very large and complex and not only to remove the backend systems to the Deutsche Bank system. Those accounts, but also introduce the new online mobile banking capability.

We are the great thing about the cloud is we're now in a position to add features very very rapidly in an agile fat mass fashion over the coming months. So we think we will see dramatic improvements as features are added to our capabilities. There are some limitations that the current setup. So while we're in the middle of.

The remaining transition of accounts over the next several months there are some limitations of the features we can offer seemed.

Seamlessly to clients in that mobile world that will also resolve itself. So we're quite confident that the path. We're on in terms of that mobile app in the cloud environment that we've got in and as is the right direction and the clients customers will see very rapid improvements in our capabilities in that area.

Okay.

Great. So the answer is well we might have a go at the short answer for the next question, Okay format fast quite often hundreds that.

Hello.

One additional question on M&A, you always said that you want to have done your homework by the end of 2022 before you might look into any larger mergers and acquisitions. You know said that this will remain the case through 2025. So does this mean that are asking for bigger consolidator.

In Europe , it's only lip service and there is nothing that serious to have on your agenda for the next two years also you posted a you said that there will be a.

Higher pretax.

Pretax income for.

10, 25 fleets also apply for them.

After tax and <unk>.

Have you set up any provisions when it comes to the Postbank litigation and or its just still ended to contingencies and also you said you cannot exclude further head count reductions are there any concrete plans for example, as you publish them in 2019 clean look with a $1 4 billion DTA adjustment.

<unk> be hard to beat and we Wouldnt expect necessarily adjustments of that order of magnitude. So the post tax.

Impacts may be may be more muted than the pre tax.

And as it relates to Postbank.

I think we've been reasonably clear that that we see that as a contingent liability we think although it's gone back to a lower court court.

The facts in our legal.

Situation have developed by and large in a positive sense.

And so it remains a contingent liability.

On Saturday Athens, Ohio cleanup excepted capital on the first question Mr. Galloon that I asked for the capital market Union and the banking Union and I still expect.

Banking consolidation, but I'm not asking for it I believe it will happen, but the prerequisite for that would be a banking unit and a union and a capital market Union because otherwise a consolidation doesn't make sense. If we don't have the necessary prerequisite. It's on a regulatory basis and this is why for years as some asking for capital market in banking Union and I have.

Believe that we will not be able to do the grain data without the capital market Union in Europe , you know SMS essentially buying so I remain I maintain what I said, you know there will be a banking consolidation, but we have to have the prerequisites.

It is said that head count reduction plan concrete plans for further headcount reduction as I said, you know, we 65, 2% as a cost income ratio target, which has said that we'd take out 2 billion euros in terms of costs in 2025 and will take incremental measures over and above this you know at some <unk>.

Just as.

We'll later might lead to a situation, where we will be reducing head count I mean, the part of the private bank alone whether it made that first that practice will be close to that head count will be reduced in other areas, we increase our head count so we.

We take the cost income ratio as a point of guidance, but also internally everybody knows that there are we can't we cannot absolutely exclude any further headcount reduction this will be a lie we can't say that.

And at the end and additional question by Olaf Storbeck financial times.

A few names Firefox. Thanks, I've got two questions I fear, but one is a follow up to what you just discussed this incremental cost program, which you've mentioned once or twice now maybe I didn't pay close attention before but what exactly does this mean what has that been approved.

<unk> by the management Board now and what is its magnitude does this mean that there's another a new cost cutting program at the bank.

Be grateful to you if you could elaborate on this and then Chris number two now if I understood that you don't want to give us any details on litigation costs, nor I have noted than one third of it.

Has been attributed to capital release unit now this is a unit, which you said does not generate any revenues hardly any RW as left so how can it be that these unexpected litigation costs are have been allocated to the C. R U that looks a bit arbitrary from the outside.

On the second point, there I think I'm more comfortable speaking to the fact pattern because many banks have it and that is we have a Polish mortgage and FX mortgage book and that was one of the asset groups that went into the sea are you and like other banks, we have been building legal provisions there.

And particularly in 2022.

Around the cost environment, perhaps I'll start look.

We're always sort.

Instead of trying to Peel, the onion and look for additional areas, where we can achieve efficiencies. So when we have specific measures that we can attach.

You know future gains too, we often refer to them as key deliverables. There's a program. There is often an investment attached to that and there is management accountability I suppose associated with delivering those future benefits and then as we go through time, we see more opportunities than we can speak about more measures that we can take in this case I think it is.

Gordon thing to realize is we see more inflation in the outlook than we are today than we would have done say a year ago and I think where we're christian's comments are really headed is we therefore need to do more to offset that inflation and those additional measures will help us do that so.

So in the net.

Wouldn't change really.

Overall.

Picture of the future forecast that we talked about in March, but with it with higher inflation, we're going to have to work harder to offset it.

After Muslims are there storbeck and global rights now.

Now when it comes to measures misses Storbeck and I think you've seen this if you look at your own newspaper the longer you work there.

More areas you find where you can bedroom where processes can be made more efficient let me give you three examples.

Trust structure now here in individual areas, who still have duplication, which means that two units doing similar work and that's what we want to combine or merge and then in corporate banking and investment bank. Thanks to the good front end processes, we have just seen that for savings.

Savings are possible. If these front to end processes are rolled out to other areas and if it just comes through booking a alone that granted then we're also looking at our <unk>.

Geographically location set up how we can streamline there and then there's another area and here I'm looking at Lloyd.

Again and again he has shown us what is possible in terms of technology. The whole world is currently talking about a new chat system.

If you look at.

The changes brought about by our processes and the automation, that's a major lever and if it turned a blind eye to this this would be a severe mistake. So okay.

Our daily doing we always learn new things and of course, we also need to think about machine learning and AI, where we have to and can make the bank better and these are the incremental measures that we take to achieve what Jim's unspent, maybe to counter increasing inflation.

Alright, then thanks a lot. So this marks the end of our list of questions and Ultra marks the end of our annual media conference. Thanks to all of you for joining us either here in Frankfurt personally or in front of your Tvs or of your screens. If you've got any further questions or comments then as usual you can contact us in the <unk>.

Communications Department apart from that have a nice day and thank you and bye bye.