Q3 2022 Las Vegas Sands Corp Earnings Call
Initial offerings has been strong.
<unk> offerings, including spacious new suite product will be introduced throughout the remainder of this year in 2023.
We look forward to substantially increasing our investment in the Singapore market as we execute our expansion plans MBS in the years ahead.
Turning to Macau, the operating environment remains difficult importantly, though in periods when restrictions have been relaxed customer demand and spending Macau have proven resilient at premium mass level from both gaming and a retail perspective.
We appreciate the opportunity to submit our tender proposal for one of the six gaming concessions in Macau and in September we are now in the consultation phase of defender program and as such we won't be able to comment much further on the process at this time.
We are big believers in Macau as the World Center of tourism and leisure we had been the biggest investor in operated and non gaming businesses over the past two decades in Macau, we absolutely welcome the opportunity to invest even more non gaming products and offerings in Macau.
We have great confidence in Macau as tourism recovery as long term growth prospects as we do most of our we will do our utmost to support <unk> economic diversification.
And its evolution as the Asia's leading destination for mice and leisure visitors.
We consider our existing portfolio of resorts in Asia to be an ideal platform for growth in the years ahead. In addition, we continue to pursue opportunities to develop new large scale land based destination resorts in both the U S and Asia. We thank you for listening today and I'll turn to your questions.
Thank you ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions if you'd like to enter the queue to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad map.
Listening on Speakerphone, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality.
So we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow up please hold a moment, while we poll for questions.
And the first question today is coming from Joe Greff from Jpmorgan.
Your line is right.
Yes.
Good afternoon everybody.
Hi, Rob.
Do they sound you're run rating close to $1 4 billion in annualized EBITDA.
And as you referenced in the Investor Slide presentation.
Without any contribution.
From a geography, namely China, given what youre seeing with improved Ian.
Regional visitation volume the other non China geographies do you think you can get to 2019 EBITDA levels at some point in the next year or so without direct contribution from China.
We think the Singapore is in a very unique place I think well easily achieve 2019 levels and as you as you referenced we have three great competitiveness right now we have.
Obviously tourism to China is very limited.
We're running about 55% visitation into Singapore from the rest of Asia, which means then that may seem odd to reference that because you think well we're running at the high levels of occupancy, but keep in mind that that residual tourists that comes in does not sleep at the MBS property gambles their shops there needs there.
So we're getting heard of things on the table business by not having all the hotels in Singapore operating at full level its a big business for us because MBS as the first port of call from those visits was whether the sleeping there enough. They go there.
That hurts our business.
Right that we're achieving 700 dollar win premiums the slots and she is retail numbers, but the upside is material third impediment as our sleeping rooms, we have about four or 500 units down right now.
I think Singapore.
It is just beginning.
Joe for the guys who are the parties just starting with Singapore. The truth is the Singapore is going to grow in that for a couple of reasons. One is the destination is getting more powerful or whatever.
Our building is getting better than ever and I think when you see a rebound from China and the rest of Asia. One six look very small in terms of our ability to grow much larger than that I think we can keep growing to $2 billion last couple of years, if we get it right and the market fully recovers so.
As much as we like the numbers currently we think theres much better days ahead for Singapore that market and that destination is growing quite a bit in terms of the Asian tourism World and I think our numbers numbers will reflect that in the years ahead.
Great and then switching over to Macau Im not going to sort of waste I guess my ball out of the question on <unk>.
The concessionaire terms.
I don't think I'd love to ask about but maybe can you just remind us what your expectation or what you are conversation turn the consult each consultation process.
Whats the timetable is for.
The license renewal to be finalized and when would you expect to.
Here from the government and then the governments.
End result to be publicly communicated and that's all for me. Thanks.
We work our colleagues is up in Asia against sleep to participate so let them answer that question gentlemen, a grant that we work with both online correct correct.
Are you guys.
Yes.
Yes.
Sure.
Okay.
Well we've been at.
Working with the government closed street.
A couple of rounds of discussion Aspen health.
We are waiting for the government.
<unk>.
Whether that will be that next round of discussion.
And.
At the timetable.
<unk> remains the same.
Everything.
Good progress.
We expect some.
Certification towards the end of the month.
So the next step.
Grant.
Additional commentary Graham.
No I think thats right.
We obviously.
Welcome.
The smooth progress in the process and.
We still do expect the entire process to complete but by the end of the year.
Obviously stated by the government.
Thanks, guys. Thank you I appreciate it.
Thank you. The next question is coming from Carlo Santarelli from Deutsche Bank. Your line is live.
Hey, guys. Thank you.
Obviously, Robert or whoever wants to take this you guys had a cigna.
Significant boost in kind of hotel revenue out of Singapore.
Namely in ADR.
Any color you guys could provide I mean, I know strategically youre looking to put the best customers in that building right now from a gaming perspective.
And obviously, that's showing up in the numbers both on the.
The VIP segment normal and mass segment role.
Anything you can provide as to kind of how the mix has changed at that property I assume some of that ADR is kind of casino comp room and.
And thats kind of whats, making that jump so significant.
I think color one of the most and different things is what's not there we're running a 96% and you see on page 14, the reference page.
Slide 15.
I think again, we're just beginning we only have half the recovery in terms of China is not there most of Asia is not there are point is.
The mix gets better and better because the man gets higher and higher our problem there is going to be.
Rooms to service all the demand.
And I think we pointed to grade variables, one being retail leases that mall, just keeps getting better and we will keep getting better and then our win per unit on the slot side looks strong, but I think the refocus on Singapore as a destination market as a market and great ascent illustrates what the upside could be on the.
Tables are not annoying tables.
Drawing tables were probably get to a whole new level of demand for the non rolling table is what I'm waiting for recovery and Thats when you see China and the rest of Asia full lift comes back so right now we're just space.
The sad reality is we liked that a lot more rooms in Singapore, because that $5 15 is a real number it could be a lot higher as the <unk> listing.
We can sell hotel resolve their longer top dollar rates from the <unk> side, we have great demand much better than pre pandemic demand from the rolling side. So again the $3 43 is a very nice number a good print in lieu of what's happening in that market, but I think the best days of Singapore next couple of years.
As we keep growing and youre going to see a refocus on our mix in the retail segment, our room mix, we're going to continue to.
Focus on being the right room mix top tier rooms, the right food and beverage product, we've got to work harder because Singapore as a destination is growing a measurably, we won't be part of that so.
Ours is a very good place in Singapore.
I think looking back we already foot six was a very nice number hopefully that looks like a small number in the future.
Great. Thank you Rob that's helpful and then if I could.
As you guys talked about in the past.
<unk> thoughts on development clearly the New York process is kind of underway could you, perhaps maybe share a little bit of your thinking around your approach and perhaps how youre thinking about the broader process timeline in general for New York.
Waiting for Governor <unk> advice on how that process will begin as you know we've always been focused on the market for many years, we haven't bid.
Right now we have a property were putting together right now very bullish on New York as a market tough because on one really I think one available license at the end of the day I think it's a very a dogfight and we hopefully will have a bid that gets attention, but other than that timetable. It looks like January for the RFP I think sometime in 'twenty three maybe we see a.
And we'll put our best portfolio Thats for sure.
The appropriate market to begin with the density of population and ethnicity.
Awesome. Thank you I appreciate it.
Paul.
Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS Robyn your line of lines.
Thanks.
Can you give us a sense of when.
What your expectation is for.
For a more open border and whether there is still an expectation that November with tea.
The packaged tour business electronic leases is that something that you feel like it's still moving forward and Philadelphia increased presentation. Please sir.
I'm going to ask you a former colleague Mr. Chairman answer that question Robyn.
Okay.
Sorry, Robyn I Couldnt quite hear the question.
Can you repeat that.
It was just about your expectations around timing.
For the border to be a little more open in Macau.
Quickly anything on that.
Changes that were planned by early November for visa applications to be electronic in Pakistan.
Garrett.
Yes.
Yes, sure I mean, I think Robyn.
That's been a positive announcements on.
The relaxation.
With regards to tier groups.
As well as the electronic visa.
Application in four provinces and also.
In Shanghai.
It too to commence.
End of the month or early.
Early November .
And so that's that's obviously going to be.
Very positive signal for a gradual.
Recovery in June .
I mean the visitation.
Especially from these key provinces.
Fatality.
And obviously, we welcome these developments.
Clearly.
In the past.
A few weeks and also a months.
Still being.
Relatively impacted by the Covid cases.
In different provinces.
As far as the non Guangdong visitation is concerned.
So what we're seeing right now.
Tao.
Predominantly coming from the Guangdong Province.
But hopefully as we.
As we get out further into the fourth quarter.
These recent measures.
To start to see.
A more low round it makes our presentation building up towards the end of the year.
Okay.
And then.
My other question on.
Singapore I know you said that.
The deadline to start construction was extended to April 2023.
You had said that before this quarter just wondering if you have anything more definitive about.
Glen.
Thanks.
I think the highest Patrick I think the great news is as Rob said in his opening remarks and the questions are performance of Singapore is very strong it's a privilege market and now tourism. There is really remarkable given some of the constraints the spending power of the consumer there is tremendous so we're really focused on high value tourism and youre seeing the results of that in our results.
And I think the.
Tower, two in our IR to in our mind.
He has tremendous potential we're very excited about it but unfortunately, we don't have any update right now about the timing. So we're working on it were in process and as we make a little bit more.
Yeah.
Progress on our on our work there will be able to disclose further about where we're headed but as of right. Now we're very optimistic about it were excited about the project. We think it really will speak to a very powerful part of the market.
Now, we don't have an update on timing.
Can I just ask one clarifying question on that.
It sounded previously like the timing of the budget and all of that was because.
Because of the pandemic.
The disruption from that.
Business levels sort of any recovery.
That's still the kind of uncertainty and commencing construction or are there other factors that are.
More of a gating issue at this point.
It's really just process I think.
A number of steps that we have to go through or would be able to build and so those processes were delayed because of the pandemic and because of some of the government agencies that we have to deal with being focused on very pressing matters. So now that theyre able to re engage we will start that process again and begin on the path and as we follow sort of the steps necessary, we will be able to provide an update but it's it's really just timing related to.
Things necessary to begin Theres a lot of there was a lot of things that have to happen to make a building of this scale and complexity.
And the location that it's in.
All of the approvals go with steps necessary to begin.
And Bob I would say the process for us and so lowering its evolutionary process, we keep thinking about this market differently as we learn more and see more and so our thinking has changed in the size of the room gaming capacity.
Customers, Singapore has morphed from what it was five years ago to hold it in place now.
Our thoughts and what we build in Singapore, and how good should it be and how powerful should be and I think it's something we want to be but it has been the envy of very very important product.
Okay, great. Thank you very much.
Thanks, Rob. Thank you. The next the next question is coming from Dan polled Sir.
Sorry.
Your line is live.
Hey, good afternoon, everyone and thanks for taking my question.
So just you guys are seeing a lot of strength in terms of the room product right now you're doing $1 billion project renovation.
On your room product.
<unk> I mean, how do we think about the return of that given this should be fully online next year and do you think you can get to that typical kind of 20% return historically or maybe higher even in the absence of the Chinese consumer coming back.
So I think we need to Chinese consumer when you're a couple of things to happen, let's be clear, we need to see China return at some point to achieve our goals. We also need to see the balance of Asia open up and come back.
Again as I referenced earlier the <unk>.
55, or so percent number was.
Compared to 2019 isn't good we need Singapore before because our building if you walked through there when there's tens of thousands of other thousand people, there, but I'll stay there.
Other hotels come to visit so where this is all hotels are very important to us we need two things happened our renovation will complete late 'twenty three the.
The balance of Singapore.
Asia towards and into Singapore us should be hopefully by Q2 complete and that leaves the one variable we can't answer that the China return when all that happens we think we can get you a very fat return.
I'd like to believe we can where our goal is to get the $2 billion in Singapore, and we believe thats not difficult if the market returns in full so.
Keep in mind that we went in Singapore with a very different mentality, a decade plus ago, the evolution of Macau into a really the premier.
<unk> gaming market, probably right now in that region as MBS and I think we are we're experiencing beginning to return, but it's not nearly where it needs to get to for us to get to 500 million a quarter, but I think that we'll hopefully see that in the years ahead. So we feel very bullish.
Think of a better place to invest our capital in Singapore, and Macao, and Singapore has proven to be terrific opportunity, but a lot of money in Macau that will open up again and be a good opportunity right now Singapore is very.
Very very exciting for us and yes, we're very confident in the returns will be there.
Got it thanks, and then just pivoting to Macau another one on the group tours in the Evs has been risen.
Can you maybe frame how big these components work for your business in 2019, and then secondarily. If we think about these parts of the business returning.
And coming back on line is there is there a path to Macau.
Getting to positive EBITDA in the fourth quarter or assuming no major outbreak.
I'll ask grant to reference that.
I think we should be careful we don't it's very hard as you know right now predictions on the Calvin erroneous last couple of years, because we don't know who is going to come in we don't know when they will close the market. It's been a stop and start for so long, it's kind of silly for us to pontificate on.
<unk> EBITDA could be EBITDA positive shortly as a positive tomorrow, if things open up and visitation return and Thats going to happen at some point, but I think it's not it's difficult for us to tell you fourth quarter could be EBITDA positive without knowing what the effect. The visitor scheme will have in November and then also not knowing how the zero equivalent enforced will <unk>.
And so there's so many unknowns in Macau is very difficult to guess grid and commentary.
Yes, Rob I think Rob's Ryan.
Fiction the feature is tough.
I think what we can say about the Pos is.
Packaged tours.
Represented roughly a quarter of the visitation before the pandemic.
With respect to electronic thesis.
We don't have those numbers, obviously, it varies significantly from province to province, but clearly the provision of availability of that node of application.
Absolutely.
Helpful to facilitate.
These applications for those relevant provinces.
Got it thanks for all the commentary.
Thank you thanks, Dan.
Thank you and the next question will be from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. John Your line is live.
Hey, good afternoon, everyone.
Maybe just to stay on Singapore.
My first question is just to ask a little bit about I'm trying to triangulate a little bit more on sort of what youre seeing behaviorally. When we look at Revpar for instance, I think it's about 6% versus 2019 is that a decent gauge of let's call. It the consumer in the let's call. It the spend per person or per head is at.
Better than that I'm, just trying to kind of think about pent up demand or what youre seeing on kind of a core visit to visit basis versus what we've seen in kind of the western market. Because we don't have a great proxy in Asia, yet about sort of how pent up demand is going to play out and I'm just trying to kind of see what you are seeing a little bit more.
I'm going to ask Patrick to take that but I wonder if they are wondering Sean is critical to understand is that Singapore is much different I think this is the obvious response to Singapore is much different in Las Vegas or U S. Regionals because of the obviously you got to fly to get there so you're depending on other countries opening up.
It's like buying one one in Burgundy has lot of different regions and Burgundy, whereas a lot of different regions in Asia that don't open have an open air lift a problem. So were really hampered as nice as what $3 40 for the quarter.
I think youre not getting the full power it's hard to differentiate.
Versus other places the truth is that Singapore remains really held back by know, China or little China, and the regional market, they're dependent airlift. The dip is recalibrate Wynn Macau opens up is like Las Vegas and regional as you can come right in without Airbus Airlift dependent so I do think Singapore, right now and they're kind of.
Unclear uncertain environment, it's nice to be making a $1 billion for whatever the number annualized is but we won't know the full power of this market we see it in retail we see it in local slot players is still strong we see it in rolling volumes were strong because everyone's coming to Singapore, especially we have one but I think what youre not seeing.
And yet as unleash the full power of this destination and whats happening Patrick.
It's a very interesting.
Question I think the key thing to note is that it's a data point for the quality of tourism coming into Singapore, and the highest the high amount of consumption. That's there when tourists visit there are constraints in our work in strange for me to base and during the quarter. So as Rob mentioned at the beginning you can see from the deck. We had approximately 500 rooms out of inventory during the renovation the rooms that are coming online.
Probably the best products, we've ever had very proud about that we think will be able to trade off in terms of the quality of the tourism that we get out of those rooms once the completion.
Is there one thing to note is that will be done at the end of 'twenty. Three so we're going to have a few more quarters of disruption as we take rooms out of inventory to complete the renovation process in rate base and the other thing to note is that the airlift is not there.
And some of the other hotels around the Singapore market do not have the full capacity because of labor constraints.
Once these things are removed from the market that act as Limiters that you can get an idea of what the true potential would be at a run rate environment, but I would still call. This a little bit of a recovery quarter. So we think there's more potential to run as we fix some of these things.
Or sort of limiting the way that we can earn and to be fair the market can offer.
Okay very helpful.
If you look at our sales of the retail mall on page 31. It gives you some indication that we're running at 'twenty three 'twenty 400 Bucks a foot.
<unk> for the third quarter I also think you look at the rolling volumes as they start to kick in I think those are great data points to see a quality coming but again, it's early days I think recovery quarters right way of approaching it.
Super Super helpful and sort of want to go down the same path.
And just going over to Macau and I'm not sure if.
The exact right way to look at it but here you do this slide on slide 12, where you kind of breakdown.
The mass win per visit which I find to be very very valuable.
As we think about that level and we saw this sort of pullback from it was probably a very premium master it in business back over the last eight quarters or so the last two quarters have looked a lot like where you were back in 2018 2019.
Is this the right.
Which one of those two.
Pent up demand we saw over the last eight quarters or kind of these more recent numbers is a better guide for what we think normal activity might look like in Macau.
Brian you want to take that.
Yes, I'll take that yeah. Thanks for the question.
I think it's an interesting looking at that trend as you highlight for the past several quarters.
I would say the difference that you highlighted.
With the previous two quarters versus the prior eight it's really just a function of the regional mix.
Into 2022, we've had a much more guangdong biased mix if you look at the visitation data.
And Thats, mainly a result of the various COVID-19.
Break impact on the non Guangdong.
Source of visitation, so if youre looking at the period.
Post pandemic, that's clearly the.
A differentiator.
And then if you compare.
With pre pandemic.
Is of course still very much.
Premium mass coming back faster.
And I think that broadly spans.
Notwithstanding our op if you adjusted for the.
The regional provincial mix I think that's still a valid point and it's borne out by by the data series.
So obviously premium mass comes back for US and then the mass comes back later, but this year that's.
Alright.
Some impact from the regional mix as well.
Okay very helpful. Thank you.
I think we all agree the underlying demand that <unk> be there once COVID-19 resolve them and we know different staff and probably in the U S.
Again with our footprint there our size our scale, we know the base mass premium mass is going to drive. This thing only variable. We don't know is the missing jug jumping segment, how impactful would be but we believe again when that door does open I think the pent up demand is going to be extraordinary.
Thank you again.
Yes.
Thank you and the next question is coming from Brent mantra.
Please <unk> your line is live.
Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions.
On Singapore.
Can you guys give us the room rate differential between the.
Finished room product and the legacy room product at run rate.
I think the problem is the it's Patrick I think the problem is there is so much noise in the comparison, because what we would be giving you as 2019 and this is not a fully open market yet.
I'd like to believe is after the quality of the renovation to be fair, we're taking <unk> out of inventory to create larger suite product. The level of design. We've had we have a new service model, we've changed out a lot of the team there in order to improve our service delivery. There is a lot of things that are going to be different. So I don't I don't want to quote you a number until we get to the run rate, but the key takeaways that we're very focused on high.
<unk> tourism, we're investing in room product, we're investing in personnel and training and service delivery added food and beverage and other amenities in the property to ensure that we can sort of capture that high value tourist and thats really what you'll see over time.
One thing you have to do I understand this thing as you will have pictures listen the loss, but jumping on planes and bingo see it the product. We're building there is unlike any that have been done in Singapore is far spirit to we've done in the past.
Third tours and so I think when people are response has been across the board perfect. In terms of your view of this product I think the impact is going to be much higher than we understand because we have got something that good people respond to it I would encourage anybody who's in that part of the World spent a day at Marina Bay Sands will show you what we're doing is pretty impressive.
Great. Thanks for that that's helpful and then.
Again on Singapore, one of the narratives on the early days of the reopening of that market was that Singapore was gaining share of groups in convention business from Hong Kong as you talk to your meeting planners and bookers and Theyre looking out six months 12 months 18 months is there a sense that with Hong Kong starting to reopen that that that market is sort of.
Trying to regain some of that share or is that market too uncertain and.
The momentum has been maintained for Singapore in that business.
So Singapore is open for business and so that means the return of leisure tourism, which we are benefiting from directly and a return of business terms on which we're seeing in a strong way.
I don't think we can draw a comparison with Hong Kong because access is different.
So I think the way to look at it now is Singapore has always been a very strong <unk> market.
It will continue to be so because of the investments are high quality tourism assets.
As important as the financial center, we intend to invest behind this thesis and so we think it's generally a very strong place to do business tourism in terms of Hong Kong I don't think were at run rate yet to really understand sort of what that means theres still COVID-19 restrictions, there's still other restrictions in operation. So until those returned to a more normal time I think it can be hard to have.
Many of you at all.
Great. Thanks for the thoughts.
Thank you and the next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley Steven Your line is less.
Hey, Thanks for taking my questions you mentioned, the trade up and quality of the new rooms in Singapore can you just remind us of the cadence of rooms coming out and coming in over the next couple of quarters and also talk to the net impact from these actions split across any uplift from renovated rooms versus the older rooms, and maybe even tying in headwinds from those closed.
So we're going to have let's call it anywhere from three to 500 keys out of circulation across the next five quarters.
Then the room renovation will wrap up in the tower be fully two towers will be fully ready.
By Chinese new year 'twenty four.
It actually by the end of 'twenty three so that's that's sort of the cycle. So we're going to have we're going to have not our full potential of room delivery during the next five quarters.
Are you currently delineating between the new rooms in terms of pricing in the old rooms.
There is some variability there, yes, but it also depends on which room within the segments. So that we have certain suites that are out certain rooms that are in it depends on the time, yes. There is some differentiation.
There was a blend there.
Got it and then maybe turning to Macau the market share there in mass has been quite volatile how would you frame how your market share may evolve in a market recovery as different segments return as you've described in a bit of a cadence of premium mass and mass.
Grant do I have that.
Sure.
Yes, thanks for the question.
It is volatile right now because the volumes are so thin so im not sure looking at.
This quarter or even the prior quarters is particularly meaningful at this point.
But I think going forward I think as Rob referenced we expect.
Strong comeback of both premium mass and mass.
And I think in there.
Segments.
We're going to perform very well.
Obviously this is a past history that but also I think looking forward.
We are coming off.
These fantastic product investments that we've made.
During the pandemic with the $2 2 billion.
Investment program that we've implemented and now coming out on the other side pretty much completing.
With the London Arena being the largest component.
So with with the Londoner and the Grand suites at four seasons, we feel very strongly that some.
We're going to perform very well in the market share front across all of these segments not just because of the suites.
Speaking to the mass segment, but also for the mass segment.
I think we'll end up with these three wonderful.
Iconix destinations.
To follow on from the Phoenician in accretion and that was with the Londoner Macao, which is already starting to gain so much traction with the people who have been able to visit.
And also locally as well.
Got it helpful. Thanks, so much.
Thanks, Stephen Thank you.
Last question is coming in from David Katz from Jefferies. David Your line is live.
Hi, good evening.
Everyone.
If you could just talk a little bit about.
What you may have learned the past quarter or so about the mix of revenue and recovery and Macau, what should we expect and what role does sort of VIP play and all of this.
Obviously premium mass is the focus but just help us break down the different strange if you can.
Mr John where you're still awake.
Yes, Steve.
Yeah, I think it's as I referenced earlier I think there is a there is a mix between.
The business segment the matrix between the business segment as well as the regional regional breakdown. So I think if you.
Just looking at the business segment clearly VIP.
Now.
That's very low levels of volume.
Especially versus premium mass and mass.
Part of this.
Impact in 2022 is also the regional composition of the business where.
We were obviously very.
Sorry, Guangdong dependent right now.
And have been for those.
Most part of this year.
But I think going forward.
It should it should be like how we've been seeing which is that the premium mass rule will come back first and more strongly and then followed by the mass.
And this is also true if you looked at the retail numbers.
What we've seen is 2021.
Very very significant performance in the luxury retail segment.
And of course 2022, less so but again, it's really impacted by that regional difference.
And then going forward yes.
Yes, similar similar trends, we would expect the luxury retail to come back.
First in the fastest.
And then you followed through with the mass retail.
Yeah.
And we do have another.
It looks like we lost David we did have another question come in.
From Ben Chaiken from credits Credit Suisse.
Ben your line of life.
Hey, How's it going thanks for squeezing me in.
Just kind of wanted to level set as we as we closed the year.
I think we mentioned tour groups and pieces for a few provinces in Shanghai either at the end of this month or early November .
Is it possible that macao could have breakeven or positive EBITDA.
As we go into the fourth quarter or do you think thats out of the realm of expectations. Thanks.
Yes, I think the difficulty is we don't know.
We've been in these conditions for.
Two and a half years, we're very hopeful we're going to continue to invest in Macau, we feel very strongly about in the future and the opportunities that exist there for leisure and business tourism, but we just don't know.
So as of right now, we're just waiting patiently and we're going through the process and we're looking forward to the opportunity for the upcoming confession.
Got it I appreciate it thanks.
Thank you and ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect. Your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day.
Thank you for your participation.
Okay.