Q3 2022 Star Bulk Carriers Corp Earnings Call
Thank you Amit.
And welcome to the Star bulk carriers conference call on the third quarter 2022 financial results.
Have with US Mr. Pizza was Pappas, Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Hamish Norton President, Mr. <unk> and Mr. Christos Big levers co Chief financial officers, Mr. Nicos, <unk>, Chief operating officer and Mrs. Cherish.
E Chief strategy Officer of the company at this time, all participants are in a listen only mode.
Presentation, followed by a question and answer session at which time if you wish to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today.
We now pass the pass the floor to one of your speakers today. Mr. <unk>. Please go ahead Sir.
Yeah.
Thank you operator.
Cmos <unk> co Chief financial Officer of Starbucks carriers, and I would like to welcome you to our conference call regarding our financial results for the third quarter of 2022.
Before we begin I kindly ask you to take a moment to read the safe Harbor statement on slide number two of our presentation.
In today's presentation, we will go through our Q3 results cost evolution during the quarter and nobody off our balance sheet and an update on the fuel spreads and vessel operations. The latest on the ESG front and our views on industry fundamentals before opening up for.
Questions.
Let's now turn to slide number three of the presentation for a summary of our third quarter 2022 highlights.
Net income for the third quarter amounted to $109 7 million and adjusted net income of $836 3 million or $1 34.
S dollar spare share our adjusted earnings.
Our adjusted EBITDA, $189 9 million for the quarter.
For the third quarter I'll spend our existing dividend policy, we declared a dividend per share of one point $20 payable.
On or about December 12, 2022, and 'twenty to 'twenty two.
The graph on the bottom of the page highlights the community for four months over the last 12 months, which illustrates the strength of the platform in a robust dry bulk market.
Our last 12 months adjusted EBITDA is at one point, all 3 billion and.
And adjusted net income is up.
$819 million.
Over the same period, we have returned a cumulative dividend of $6 $5 per share or 670 million to our shareholders.
On the top right of the page you will see our daily figures per vessel for the quarter.
Our time charter equivalent rate was $24365 per vessel per day.
Our combined daily operating expenses and net cash G&A expenses per vessel per day.
I wanted to 5000 and $719 per day.
Therefore, our D C less operating expenses less G&A expenses stand at $18646 per vessel per day.
Our results for the third quarter of 2022 include the loss on write down of inventories or $14 9 million, resulting from the valuation of the bank is remaining on the board of our vessels. Following the substantial decrease of the bank as net realizable value.
Compared to their historical cost.
We value our inventory at the lower between acquisition price and net realizable value.
Usually there is no such volatility in the value of the bankers. However on periods of continuous decrease in bike at prices and to the extent the lowest cannot be the covers we believe it is prudent to be recognized in earnings.
Slide four.
Graphically illustrates the cash flow bridge for the third quarter.
We started the quarter with a pro forma cash balance of 431 million and.
And generated meaningful positive cash flow from operating activities.
880, $884 5 million due to the strong commercial performance.
After including debt repayment capex payments for ballast water treatment systems.
And the second quarter dividend payment.
Neither the cash balance and cash equivalents of $392 7 million at the end of the third quarter.
Slide number five presents our fleet cabinets for the next quarter.
Looking at the fourth quarter of 'twenty to 'twenty two based on the latest fixtures. Our fleet wide coverage is up 66, 66% of the available days.
$22772 per vessel per day.
In terms of size segmentation, we have fixed 53% of our capesize vessels.
603.
$328 per day.
76% of our post Panamax counter my expenses are $21015 a barrel.
Vessel per day.
And 66% of our ultra Max supermax vessels at <unk>.
$22462 per day per vessel.
Please turn now to slide number six where we highlight the continued strength of our balance sheet.
Our pro forma total liquidity today.
Stands at 417 million.
Meanwhile, our total debt stands at approximately 176 billion.
During the year, we have agreed refinancings totaling approximately $400 million.
That decrease though around the regular debt repayments by $12 5 million and reduced our interest cost by approximately 5 million per annum.
As a result of achieving significantly lower margins.
Our next 12 months amortization is that the Hunter is 86 million.
We have 13, unlevered vessels with market value of approximately 190 million and no debt maturities until 'twenty 'twenty before.
In an increasing interest rate environment, we have interest rate swaps with an outstanding notional of approximately 755 million.
Fixed at an average rate of 46 basis points for an average remaining maturity of one four years.
As of October 31st.
Mark to market value of these swaps was $37 2 million.
And.
Yes.
It's Hamish Norton, let me just interject at point here, which is that it should be pretty obvious. If you look at our liquidity today plus the FFA curve today, while anything can happen in the dry bulk market.
Would imply a dividend for the fourth quarter that somewhat lower again, you know, it's it's just an obvious point it will depend on how the FFA curve turns into reality over the next you know.
A few weeks and months.
And I will now pass the floor to our C O make a crash course to talk about our operational performance.
Thank you C malls.
Slide seven we illustrate how Starbucks is benefiting from a widening of the fuel spread between 8% for electrical.
We have 100 and I'm thinking back to that.
Robert on board.
Additionally, having surpassed the 160000 operating days and Alberta system I've got I believe it was 99, 5%.
The current high five spreads at healthy levels of scrubbers meaningfully contribute to our profitability.
That's right.
During Q3.
Currently Colbert is around $240 per metric ton basis pick up of prices, where we care for approximately 60% of our.
Yoga mat.
Because to me the average high five spreads achieved during Q3.
$11 per metric ton.
On the top right of the slide we present a table illustrates.
The biker benefits come calling a bottom line based on our consumption of approximately 700000 tons of basis at whole Toronto for scrubber fitted vessels.
Please turn to slide eight where we provide the operational update.
Operating expenses, excluding nonrecurring expenses for the fourth.
$759 per day.
Vessel for Q3 2022.
Net cash G&A expenses were $950 per vessel per day for the same period.
Despite continued adverse COVID-19 related expenses and inflation.
Rate pressures with some of directing Opex.
Nation of warehouse management on a scale of the group enables us to sustain a very competitive cost base.
Maintain our position at the lowest cost operator amongst our peers.
We expect our operating expenses to normalize during the fourth quarter.
In addition, we continued to right at the top amongst our list of theatres in terms of Rideshare safety score.
Slide number nine.
I think snapshot than some guy that's a lot of drydocking and ballast water treatment installation expenses and the relevant total off hire days.
We are nearing the completion of our ballast water installation program with 98% of our fleet fitted with our system by the end of the fourth quarter. This year.
Our expected Drydock expense for calendar 'twenty 'twenty three is estimated at $19 million with a drive up 18 vessels with another $2 3 million towards our vessel upgrade capex.
And Dalton.
Approximately 520 off hire days for the same period.
All numbers are based on current estimates around drive though.
The retrofit funny, that's what employment and yard capacity.
I'll now pass the floor Chief strategy officer at highest Nike for an update.
Thank you Nicole.
Let's turn to slide 10, we highlight our latest actions okay.
Yes.
For the first one thank you.
Got it.
I know he asked you before he survived salaries and comprehensive accounts of the company.
G objectives and performance.
They report.
In accordance with the tier I sat next to corruption.
Let's see let me just get thousands standard exploring for marine transportation, they're not that easy reporting guidelines and in United Nations.
Okay.
It is closing the company's progress on these two latest key performance indicators, we have received limited external assurance from the White House.
Cri disclosures and fast indicate.
We have also engaged.
Many stakeholders, both internal and external to identify and prioritize.
<unk> is strategic to.
I have to say anything there.
On the People's shrunk in following three years.
And Danny.
It also means implementing an enhanced employee wellbeing plan, including flexible working schemes mental health support and employee engagement programs.
I will now pass the floor to our CEO metro stop us or it might.
Update and his closing remarks.
Thank you Harris.
Please turn to slide 11 for a brief update of supply.
During the first 10 months of 2022 it does help.
26 million deadweight was delivered.
Three 6 million deadweight was sent to demolition for a net fleet growth of 22.4 million deadweight.
Or two 4% year to date.
2.8% year over year.
Okay.
The supply outlook continues to be the best we have seen in the recent history of dry bulk shipping.
The order book has decreased to a record low of six 9% of the fleet was.
It was just 16 million deadweight reported as firm orders year to date.
Uncertainty on future propulsion, along with IC building costs and limited shipyard capacity.
Until 2025 have helped keep you orders under control.
Furthermore, scarp prices stand at elevated levels and could make demolition of older age and fuel efficient donuts and attractive.
And fuel aimed at fishing donuts and attractive option during seasonal downturns.
We expect these to intensify as of 2023 forward wouldn't be <unk> regulations will come into force.
The average steaming speed of the dry bulk fleet has decreased by five 3% year over year to 11, two nuts because of record high bunker costs and lower freight rates, we expect the oil prices and subsequently bunker costs do remain inflated in the short to medium term.
With upcoming sanctions on Russia.
And the ongoing energy crisis situation, along with a new environmental regulations will continue to incentivize slow steaming and fleet scrubber savings.
Chinese port congestion has experienced a strong correction during the last two quarters as used our rivals helps debottleneck ports and easing of pandemic related restrictions and sports.
Nevertheless, global congestion remains above pre COVID-19 levels, especially for smaller vessel types due to changes in trading patterns and seasonal bottlenecks.
As a result of the above trends net fleet growth is projected to end up at the Perama approximately two 7% during 2022 and C is unlikely to exceed 2% per annum between 2020, three and 'twenty 'twenty five.
Let's now turn to slide 12 for a brief update of demand.
According to Clarksons total dry bulk trade during 2022 is projected to contract by 0.5% ton miles.
Dry bulk trade. This year has been affected by the war in Ukraine. The strong decrease of Chinese imports as the streak zero carbon policy continues to affect economic activity and the weakened global economic outlook linked to surging commodity prices a strong U S dollar multi decade.
High inflation and interest rate hikes.
During 2023 dry bulk demand is projected to increase by one 4% in ton miles with the IMF forecast for global GDP growth presently standing at two 7%.
We believe that the relaxation of the strict zero carbon policy and gradual reopening of the Chinese economy will have a strong positive effect for the dry bulk market. Furthermore, increased restocking needs worldwide.
The shift of coal grain and minor bulk trade patterns to longer haul routes should continue to benefit on miles.
Iron ore trade is expected to contract by three 2% during 2022 and to increased marginally by 0.1% in 'twenty to 'twenty three.
During the first nine months of the year could eat too steep crude steel production.
Creased by 3% with China and by 5% in the rest of the world use a negative profit margins.
The drop off high and Theres intensive electric arc furnaces and lower demand worldwide.
The Chinese steel industry has gone through a major slowdown since July 2021.
And by week real estate market record high raw material prices and with the zero carbon policy impact on economic activity during 2022.
Nevertheless over the last the last months Chinese production has gradually recovered while domestic iron ore output stockpiles have decreased and provide a positive indicator for imports.
Coal trade is expected to expand by one 7% during 2022 and 2.8% in 2023.
I'll focus on energy security and high gas prices have upgraded the coal trade outlook for the next years Morever sanctions on role on the Russian coal by major importers and limited export capacity from Atlantic producers and boost coal prices to record high levels over the last.
Workers.
European buyers are a substitute imports from Russia with longer haul.
Oh, gosh, well, Russia is exporting more goes to China, India and other Asian countries situation that is benefiting ton miles.
Throughout the year, China, and India have increased their domestic production significantly in order to help raise stocks reduce prices and be less dependent on imports. However.
The production is also growing at high base, while stockpiled still stands at relatively low levels.
Grain trade is expected to contract by one 2% during 2022 and to expand by four 3% during 2023.
Over the last months grain trade fundamentals have improved due to strong Brazilian corn exports and the partial resumption of Ukrainian exports on the back of the grain corridor agreement forever.
U S. Soybean exports season continues with strong volumes and outstanding sales, while our record high harvest is expected from Brazilian soybean farmers.
Increased global focus on food security and a recovery of Ukrainian exports support grain trade in ton miles smaller sizes in the medium to long term.
Minor bulk trade is expected to expand by 0.8% during 2022 and 0.7% in 2023 minor bulk trade has the highest correlation to global GDP growth and economic slowdown has affected trade Williams. Moreover, the correction of the container ship market is moderating.
The support that provided smaller geared vessels during 2021.
On the other hand shortages of steel products in the Atlantic and a positive price arbitrage continue to incentivize specific experts to be Atlantic.
Wherever.
Expanding West Africa, bauxite to China continued to inflate on miles with the year to date exports up by 15%.
Finally, our outlook for the dry bulk market remains positive and our scrubber fitted fleet is well positioned to take advantage.
The record low order book.
Combined with a lack of yard space, increasing efficiencies environmental regulations and high bunker costs create a favorable supply side picture for earnings.
On the demand side and gradual reopening of the Chinese economy increased infrastructure investments and changes of rates by patents to longer distances are expected to support earnings to next years.
Without taking any more of your time I will now pass the floor over to the operator to answer any questions you may have.
And at this time will be conducting a.
Question, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue.
You May press star two if he would like to remove your question from the queue.
So participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys.
One moment, please while we poll for questions.
Our first question comes from the line of Amit Mehrotra.
<unk> with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed with your question.
Thanks, operator.
Everybody. Thanks, Thanks for letting me ask a question I wanted to start.
I wanted to start with with acquisition opportunities I think if I think about you know the star bulk up today, a lot of that growth a lot of the growth has really come actually at weaker points in the cycle, where you know you've been able to attract sellers by the liquidity of the shares in <unk>.
In many cases actually those sellers have been willing to accept a price that's far north of where where the public.
He is actually trading which is pretty remarkable I think is probably speaks to the strength of the platform or are you are you seeing any opportunities like that I know these deals are very difficult to come by but you've done.
I think 50 860 ships that way, which is a lot and so I'd be curious if there's a window of opportunity and what it's been a tough shape tape for China, a tough tape for dry bulk in general and recently, where youre seeing maybe a window of opportunity to do additional deals like that but you can just comment on that.
Yeah sure I mean, I you know.
As you pointed out we were very successful in closing a bunch of small M&A deals when the market was relatively weak and then when the market got strong it became hard to close these deals because the sellers had much higher expectations.
If we go into a weak period in the market and the.
Potential sellers get nervous that could be a very helpful and we might be able to close some deals.
We're not seeing anything right now.
But.
You know these things come up.
Out necessarily much warning and anything that we see will pay a lot of attention to you know where we're focused on trying to get good deals done.
In a in a weak market you know as much as a strong market.
Oh, I'm, sorry, I'm just hopeful.
Yep.
Also I do not think we tend to ordering new buildings going forwards.
Our expansive there's deliveries for 2025.
We don't have a clear picture of where we're this is where.
This is going as far as green fuels in new engines.
And I assume we will not issue spoke bill.
Below net asset value to buy vessels.
Yeah correct.
And just just a couple more quick ones for me if I could so one is you know the stock's been pretty volatile and.
There was a moment there that you were getting a little bit more decent credit for the capital allocation strategy of the dividends that are actually sustainable, but now with the stock kind of back to you know quite a bit below NAV.
I guess the question is the question is I'm, just trying to get into your head a little bit the commitment to the dividend strategy because there's obviously a lot of uses for the capital whether its even buying back stock, which you've done in the talk a little bit what's what's the commitment level with the stock sort of languishing hopefully temporarily at these levels well I mean.
Yeah, Amit you have no idea how stubborn we are.
I mean, yeah, we've said it before and you know we will continue to say it in and we will actually continue to say it until our you know face against Blue.
We are we are committed to our dividend policy and.
You know, it's not test management who's committed but we have a large shareholding among the directors and the directors want their dividend. So you know I think you can count on that.
Yeah last quick one for me I think you might've mentioned the Cmos, but.
With the with the Refinancings. There's obviously you've got you have Christmas has been quite busy doing that question is what's the I know the debt amortization is coming down a little bit what is now the new kind of all in breakeven I think you might have mentioned in the script, but I might've missed it. It's obviously below 10500 or 11000, but you can give us that new number.
Yes.
Amit the break evens out at all.
11000.
Fleet wide.
And this includes also a provision for the dry docks as well.
And just to add I mean, this is Kris stores I mean, the reason he has stayed at 11000.
Easy because we have 455% of our debt interest rate swaps at an average of 46 basis points now for the remaining 45% of the date the base rate is up and therefore this slightly pushes our overall break.
Right.
What is good is that in the last essentially two years, we have managed to refinance approximately 60% of our total debt close to $800 million.
Saving tens of millions in the spread the interest cost.
Without losing.
A lot of the interest rate swaps that we did back in 2020, because essentially those swaps. The majority of those were done on the holding level of star bulk and therefore were not affected by the refinancings.
Right. Okay, Yeah, that's very clear okay very good. Thank you very much I appreciate it everybody. Thank you.
Hey, Thanks Donna.
Our next question comes from the line of Omar <unk> with Jefferies. Please proceed with your question.
Thank you Hey, guys. Good afternoon, just wanted to maybe follow up on Unamid first question and then a discussion you guys had no wonder if you just think maybe big picture about how you're how you're thinking about star Bulks positioning at the moment you have plenty of cash you have the scrubbers, obviously, given your outsized earnings critical.
Critical mass and and so just wanted to think or ask you.
Given the slowdown we've been seeing here recently and potentially continuing here for the near term.
Any changes in how you guys are thinking strategically.
About the business or financially.
Well, let me say a few words and then maybe Mr. Pop us might have a few words to say, but yeah look.
We may be moving into it.
A period, where the market is weaker.
And you know that could lead to some we are nervous ship owners.
And are you nervous ship owners are the source of of deal.
And so we will try to get deals done as I said.
You know, we're very happy that we've been able to refinance as much debt as we refinanced debt push maturities out.
<unk> 2024 for the earliest maturities so we're pretty comfortable frankly with the the debt level, which is you know.
Around a third of our assets value and.
I you know, we're pretty comfortable frankly, with our cash buffer which is.
Which is quite large and and of course whenever we pay the dividend.
We've been able to build cash up from a minimum cash level for several weeks before the dividend gets paid so the the cash never actually get to as low as our theoretical cash reserve. So.
So you know, we're we're pretty happy with the situation.
Hopefully, we can take advantage of weakness.
Yeah, and with a 128 vessels under management, we have critical mass on every sector of Oh, well the dry bulk business. So we're in no great hurry nowadays and the amazing opportunity we will of course look at it.
And as we said previously M&A activity is always there.
If the right project comes we will obviously look at it very carefully.
Yes, just maybe to add.
Yeah.
In these periods, we are quite focused on improving.
The efficiency of our existing fleet, whether this has to do with fuel efficiency is environmental regulations are.
Taking a central stage or whether these has to exploring other ways.
For decarbonization.
So this is also same drummer in core right now on top of our agenda.
Got it. Thank you that's that's helpful and I guess maybe.
I think petros.
Earlier, you had made a comment about acquiring assets and if you were to do so you wouldnt issue equity below NAV to do so.
Just thinking about that.
What about if you were to pay cash for a vessel would you commit to paying cash if your shares were below NAV.
Or does the whole component of growth have to come from a premium valuation to navy.
You know it would be it would be we we'd have to have an awfully. Good reason to use cash to buy vessels with our share trading you know below an AAV to any significant extent.
You know I E. If the if the vessel deal is so compelling that it is in the shareholders' interest to use the cash with the shares trading below an AAV.
I could imagine that but it would be a very exceptional transaction.
Okay Cool and then a final one for me Heimish.
I think I I I always thinking about the ATM and the buyback I feel like I think I noticed in this quarter, maybe no you did not tap into the ATM nor the buyback.
And then just wondering when we think of the discount to NAV today.
Is the buyback still at play here or are you more in sort of a cash preservation mode.
Oh, Hey, I, you know look if if if.
If we see an opportunity to.
To buyback.
<unk> shares with the proceeds of vessel sales in a way that represents a serious arbitrage, we would definitely do that.
Okay, and so the yeah, so triggering the buyback would come from selling assets and capturing a spread not necessarily from ongoing cash flow because that's committed to brag exactly we wanted to spend we want to defend the dividend we want to use operating cash flow for the dividend.
Very good got it well. Thanks. Thanks, Hamish Thanks, guys appreciate it I'll turn it over.
Thanks Omar.
Our next question comes from the line of Ben Nolan with Stifel. Please proceed with your question.
Yeah, Great. This is actually Frank galanti on for Ben.
I just had one question actually just around leverage given kind of.
Increasing costs of.
Interest rates are in that across the board, obviously theres some of the debt that is.
Hedged with interest rates, but the majority of it is not.
Around there.
Hey, Mitch you had mentioned about one third of the assets were.
Debt is.
Is that a reasonable level for.
The business going forward kind of potentially getting some uncertainty or.
You can talk about sort of the bans around leverage given kind of changing.
Changing changes in interest rates.
Well hi.
So so basically.
If interest rates go to 20% the way they went in the 19 eighties. You know then you don't want to have any debt at all.
But you know with interest rates in the sort of you know low single digits.
Yeah, 33, 40% that is is not difficult to service.
So yeah.
I think we're quite comfortable with 55%.
Oh and yes. They all also you should keep in mind that actually 55% of our debt is currently swapped.
At LIBOR equals 0.45% so.
And our spread to LIBOR is really low at this point with the refinancings are Chris Chris. So yeah average freight is that a two.
2% essentially across the fleet, we don't have any junior debt. It's only senior debt that we have potentially may target. Some more refinancings next year, so as far as the spread is concerned and hopefully it's going to come down even further.
While we would never I'm you know.
Turn down the opportunity to reduce debt you know why.
When it's when it's if it's if it's in an attractive transaction, we're very comfortable with the amount of that we've got.
Okay. That's helpful. That's all I have thanks, so much.
Yeah.
Okay.
And our next question from the line.
Fine.
The merger with home with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed with your question.
Yes.
Hey, Thanks for taking the follow up so one of the things that I've been thinking about too is we're always talking about you know growing the fleet and acquisitions, but.
We never talk about selling vessels and what's interesting is you know I M. O I think like the grading criteria kind of starts to get more difficult starting in 2023 from an emissions perspective with iron about 2023, I don't know I don't know if there's any scope given that.
You know the value of the ship is greater than the implied value at the company. If there's an opportunity to sell older vessels that may.
They have a harder time in that context, and then and then remind me if you sell vessels and raise capital or is that excluded from the dividend calculation I think it is but I just wanted to make sure.
So let's answer your last question first if we sell vessels that cash is excluded from the dividend for at least a year.
And we could use that to buy other vessels to buyback stock.
But I look.
Look it might make sense to sell older vessels that might in the future have trouble with the I M O our emissions standards.
You know we are trying to be very creative.
In terms of making sure that our older vessels actually will get through these I M O regulations with flying colors, and we are doing a bunch of things.
That are some of them very creative.
And some of them standard, but maybe Nicolas rest kos.
Want to talk about some of the things we're doing I mean, I was hoping it would have much time to discuss everything we're doing but basically theres a big team of people here working on optimizing the existing fleet and basically extending the lifespan of the vessels.
That is by accelerating dry docks and deploying new technology, whether that's the energy efficiency, we all read about or whether it is a low friction banks or other technologies that will still come up talk about but we are actually testing now we are.
Now going to be installing our first carbon capture equipment on a vessel in January .
So basically we are trying to this associate.
Ci index of how this will impact the industry.
For the majority of the vessels instead of combining with.
With market prices are having to make a decision simply on Ci.
Pro forma for the coming years.
The existing operating speed for the fleet and our ships, we do not foresee any issues for any of the vessels at least until 2026.
We're going to see the next.
Off of the iron more regulation.
Right and then.
My last follow up if I could so.
We're coming up on the the Chinese new year, and that's typically obviously, a seasonally weak period of time in the first quarter.
Several years ago you started.
Kind of moving away from the spot market and contracting out over that period I mean, we're sitting here in November 2017, So maybe even there's some pictures that are bleeding into the first quarter I don't know if there's like a baseline that you think.
You can achieve in the first quarter as it relates to that kind of a temporary pivoting chartering strategy or just where we are in the year right now.
Okay.
Unfortunately, the market fell.
Relatively early this year.
And.
We were not able to follow our usual strategy, which was fixing four words.
Somewhere in in July .
July August September the market started dropping.
Like around May and.
Then there we had the option whether we could we could fix for a year at much lower levels or stay spot at much higher levels.
So we decided to to stay spots are and to the higher levels are expecting a better quarter for during Q3. This didn't materialize and therefore the coverage for Q1 is not.
It is not there.
Got it okay that makes sense. Thank you for the clarification.
Thank you.
And as a reminder, if anyone has any questions you May press star one on your telephone keypad joined our question and answer queue.
And it looks like you have further questions before I hand, the call back over to management for closing remarks.
No further remarks, operator, thank you very much.
This concludes today's conference and you may disconnect Hi, Hi, Thank you for your participation.
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