Q4 2022 Ocwen Financial Corp Earnings Call

February 28, 2023

Speaker 1: A.

Speaker 2: Greetings and welcome to the Auckland Financial Corporation Fourth Quarter Earnings and Business Update Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation.

Speaker 2: If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce one of your hosts, Mr. Diko Exerilean, Senior Vice President of Corporate Communications. Please go ahead, sir.

Speaker 2: Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Auckland's full year and fourth quarter 2022 earnings call. Please note that our earnings release and slide presentation are available on our website.

Speaker 2: Speaking on the call of the Auckland's Chair and Chief Executive Officer Glenn Dacina and Chief Financial Officer Sean O'Neill. As a reminder, the presentation or comments today may contain forward-looking statements made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Federal Security's laws. These forward-looking statements may be identified by reference to a future period.

Speaker 2: including the risks and uncertainties described in our SEC filings, including our Form 10K for the year ended December 31, 2021, and when available, for the year ended December 31, 2022. In the past, actual results have differed materially from those suggested by forward-looking statements, and this may happen again. Our forward-looking statements speak only as of the date they are made, and we disclaim any obligation.

Speaker 2: measures provide a useful supplement to discussions and analysis of our financial condition, because there are measures that management uses to assess the financial performance of our operations and allocate resources. Non- GAAP financial measures should be viewed in addition to, and not as an alternative for, the company's reported results under accounting principles generally accepted in the United States.

Speaker 2: Now, I will turn the call over to Glenn Messina.

Speaker 3: Good morning everyone and thanks for joining our call.

Speaker 3: We're looking forward to sharing our progress with you this morning. Today we'll review a few highlights for the full year and fourth quarter, take it through our actions to address the market environment, and discuss why we believe our balanced and diversified model can deliver long-term value.

Speaker 3: Please turn to slide three.

Speaker 3: I'm proud of the results we delivered in 2022. Our balance and diversified business model is working well.

Speaker 3: As you all know, with rising interest rates, the servicing environment improves substantially, while the origination environment remains quite challenging.

Speaker 3: We delivered full year net income of $26 million and earnings per share of $2.97 of 42% and 49% respectively versus 2021.

Speaker 3: Book value per share of $61 is up 17% versus prior year-end.

Speaker 3: In the fourth quarter, we reported the net loss of $80 million, which included $75 million in pre-tax notable items.

Speaker 3: This was largely driven by MSR valuation changes due to lower interest rates and assumption updates to reflect lower observed trading values in the bulk market and increase future losses for junior May borrowers.

Speaker 3: Sean will talk more about this later.

Speaker 3: Similarly, our MSR values for new originations were below levels we observe from market leaders in correspondent and the Co-issue channels, driving margin and volume pressure in the quarter.

Speaker 3: We reported fourth quarter adjusted pre-tax loss of $3 million, a 57% improvement from the third quarter, as our cross-actions and servicing segment earnings, all set the impact of volume and margin pressures and corresponding co-issue.

Speaker 3: Despite a significantly smaller originations market, we grew our servicing portfolio 8%.

Speaker 3: We focused on growing capitalite subservicing, which was up 18% over prior your rent.

Speaker 3: Our subservicing opportunity pipeline remains strong, up 4% over prior year-end levels. Regarding our cost structure, I'm proud of the work done by our global team who delivered $100 million in end-to-life cost reduction versus the second quarter 2022, much better than our initial target. Expats efficiency in both originations and servicing.

Speaker 3: and repurchase $25 million of our PHH notes.

Speaker 3: Going forward, we are preserving capital and liquidity to enable opportunistic investments, given our expectations for potential investment returns in 2023, as well as for interest rate and economic volatility.

Speaker 3: Overall, I'm pleased with our results in navigating this business cycle.

Speaker 3: We believe our balance in diversified business model is performing well and Remain confident in our ability to execute on those items that are within our control

Speaker 3: Now let's turn to slide forward to discuss the environment and our value creation plan.

Speaker 3: The conditions in servicing are more favorable than they've been in years, and servicing is a core strength of our business model.

Speaker 3: MSR values have risen materially since 2021 and servicing profitability is improving.

Speaker 3: We are seeing increased investment opportunities in distress assets and certain MSRs for the attractive returns and we expect elevated bulk volume to persist.

Speaker 3: Potential client interest in subservicing revenge strong, client delays are easing, and a opportunity pipeline is robust.

Speaker 3: We are seeing increased interest in the mortgage sector from investors who are seeking partners to source and service MSRs, hull loans and non-performing loans.

Speaker 3: Moving to Originations, we expect market conditions will continue to be challenging.

Speaker 3: Fannie Mae is forecasting industry origination volumes of 1.7 trillion for 2023. That's down 29% from 2022.

Speaker 3: We expect nominal refinance activity in the near term. Even if the 30-year fixed mortgage rate were to decline to 4%, roughly 12% of outstanding mortgages have a refinance incentive.

Speaker 3: GSE actions to support enterprise goals are driving pricing and margin volatility. Competition is intent and we are seeing several market participants with a substantially more aggressive view of new origination MSR values relative to both market levels versus our own. We are seeing height and demand A opportunities.

Speaker 3: and expect consolidation in both origination and servicing. As we said before, the Board of Management are committed to evaluating all options to maximize value for our shareholders. Thank you.

Speaker 3: In this environment, we believe our core strength in servicing is the right foundation.

Speaker 3: Her value creation plan built on this core strength has five key elements.

Speaker 3: Library to our balance and diversified business model.

Speaker 3: Prudent growth adapted to the environment.

Speaker 3: adapted to the environment, an industry leading service and cost structure.

Speaker 3: Top to your operational performance and unmatched breadth of capabilities.

Speaker 3: to discuss the benefits of a balanced and diversified business model.

Speaker 3: Our balanced business and key operating actions have driven consistent net income improvement since 2019. Over the last three years, servicing and originations have demonstrated complementary financial performance with servicing gap pre-tax income improving to offset

Speaker 3: declining profitability and originations. As Sean will discuss, this is true for both forward and reverse.

Speaker 3: Based on the Fannie Mae forecast for interest rates and industry volume and our productivity and portfolio growth initiatives, we expect servicing adjusted pre-text income to improve further in 2023 and expect original adjusted pre-text income to remain depressed.

Speaker 3: Our focus on diversification is evident when looking at our portfolio composition.

Speaker 3: Our operating performance has supported material growth in forward and reverse subservicing.

Speaker 3: We believe our emphasis on growing subservicing and GSEO and MSRs, which are now 54% and 34% of our portfolio respectively, also help mitigate potential portfolio related risk in the event of a recession.

Speaker 3: In subservicing, we have no exposure to advances. We are high revenues if bars are delinquent.

Speaker 3: In GSE servicing, the credit quality is high.

Speaker 3: PNI advances are capped at four months, and in the case of Fannie Mae, we recover our servicing advances monthly.

Speaker 3: The segments of our portfolio where we have more significant responsibility for advancing payments, loan repurchases, as well as revenue risk with far-delinquency RPLS and Genimeo and MSRs. However, these segments combined only comprise 12% of our portfolio. While our deliberate strategy to diversify our portfolio reduces our revenue,

Speaker 3: Our road strategy is focus on driving capital-light subservicing and higher-mortem origination products and channels.

Speaker 3: Our Rigenation's team performed well in 2022 with MSR Rigenation's excluding bulk transactions down 27% versus prior year while the total market was down 48%.

Speaker 3: In contrast, subservicing additions were roughly flat to prior year at 55 billion.

Throughout 2022, the originations team continuously adjusted to market conditions, addressing our cross structure, integrating the phone and reverse originations platforms where possible, growing our total client base by 21 percent, and growing high margin product clients by 41 percent.

The impact of our enterprise sales team is evident in the growth of our total servicing portfolio, which is up 8% versus prior year, and 53% over the last two years.

Our subservicing portfolio is up 18% versus prior year and 70% over the last two years. We delivered on our objective increasing our mix of higher margin-rich nation products up 7 percentage points versus prior year and we've nearly doubled the mix percentage over the last two years. We believe our enterprise sounds approach.

and multi-travel strategy will continue to drive portfolio growth in 2023.

Now please turn to slide 7 for an update on our expense management actions.

We remain committed to achieving maintaining an industry-leading service and cost structure. Our team has made great progress in 2022, managing our operating costs to realize $100 million in annualized expense reduction versus the second quarter of 2022.

Our continuous cost improvement actions are focused on driving sustainable cost reduction, supporting the most essential activities while maintaining a prudent risk and compliance management framework.

Our cost structure measured in basis points is down 27% and 41% from the fourth quarter 2022 versus 4 Q2 021 and full year 2020 respectively.

Our goal is to further reduce our servicing operating cost structure in 2023 in basis points of UPB by roughly another 10%. Last year we achieved double-digit improvement in our variable operating costs for all major portfolio segments.

And we're targeting to deliver meaningful improvements again this year.

We're driving automation, digital migration, and other systemic process enhancement, consistent with our technology roadmap, and focus on continuous process improvement.

And we continue to leverage our proprietary global operating platform, which has been in place for over 20 years and supports all business activities.

Notwithstanding our focus on productivity, we continue to maintain industry-leading operational performance and improve service delivery to customers, clients, and investors.

We believe the improvements we've made to our cross-structure can enable meaningful profit improvement as we grow our servicing portfolio. Assuming a standard GSE subservicing revenue profile without any further improvement in our cross-structure, we can add between two and a half to three basis points in pre-tech income per billion dollars of UPB added.

We would expect the profit contribution from government, reverse, commercial, and special servicing additions to have a more significant pre-texting contribution per billion dollars of UPP added.

This year, we're talking to increase our servicing portfolio, our subservicing portfolio, by $85 billion, reflecting a mixture of GSA reverse commercial and special subservicing additions, as well as achieve further cost productivity.

Please turn to slide 8 for an update on our operational performance.

Our focus on driving industry leading operating performance and our breadth of operating capabilities is the foundation supporting the growth in our subservicing portfolio. We have again been recognized as an industry top servicer with our third consecutive sharp award from Freddie Mac.

Our second consecutive star award from Fannie Mae and second consecutive Tier 1 rating from HUD.

Through our investment in technology and global operating capability, we've built an efficient and mature platform with capacity for growth that drives improved financial outcomes for clients. We have consistently invested in our servicing platform capabilities and we believe our core strength in servicing positions as well to navigate the market ahead.

Our breadth of capabilities is unmatched to the industry. We serve as Forward, Reverse, and Small Bounce Commercial Loan Portfolios covering GSE, Junime, Federal Home Long Bank, and PLS products.

We're one of the industry's largest PLS servicers with a proven expertise servicing distress assets and creating positive outcomes for homeowners, clients and investors.

We are the industry's only integrated reverse issue in servicer and one of two subservicing providers for reverse mortgages.

We've earned the trust of clients and partners as evidenced by over $100 billion in subservicing additions in the last 24 months.

and a potential opportunity pipeline of over $300 billion.

We're excited about the growing investment opportunities that are emerging in the market that we believe we and our capital partners could benefit from.

We're excited about the growing investment opportunities that are emerging in the market that we believe we and our capital partners could benefit from. The bulk market remains robust.

We believe opportunities can emerge from the stress in the reverse mortgage market, and we are one of a limited number of non-banks approved as a federal home loan bank subservicer and servicing buyer.

Now please turn to slide 9.

We continue to focus on expanding our capital partner relationships to support our growth objectives on a capital-like basis.

Last year, we opportunistically and prudently sold, as well as invested in MSRs, keeping our MSR UPB flat at roughly $135 billion while growing our total servicing portfolio through subservicing additions.

The cornerstone of our cap of a management over the past two years has been mapped.

Since completing the upsides in mid-fourth quarter, MAD has issued or has purchased $15 billion in MSRUPB at attractive pricing levels.

During the fourth quarter, we close trades with two new capital providers.

utilizing an excess servicing fee financing structure.

These transactions provide additional funding diversification, as well as mitigate a meaningful portion of our propayment risk exposure.

With these new capital partners, we've implemented an MSR-Best Execution Structure for flow sales of MSR's purchase through our originations panels, further enhancing our ability to grow our servicing portfolio on a capital-like basis.

Looking ahead, we're focused on developing additional investor relationships to support our growth objectives across multiple asset types.

We are evaluating a diverse range of potential structures across six potential capital partners to satisfy the unique need of each investor and further diversify our structural alternatives.

Our investor-driven approach to MSR purchases introduces an added level of price discipline to our independent valuation expert benchmarking process.

Throughout 2022, we are able to monetize MSRs at levels at or above our acquisition cost.

We take this responsibility seriously and we will deliver out our commitments.

Now, I'll turn it over to Sean to discuss our results for the fourth quarter and outlook for 2023. Thank you, Glenn. Please turn to slide 10 for our financial highlights.

In the fourth quarter, we realized the loss in gap net income of $80 million, with a corresponding decline in Q4 for earnings per share in both value.

The decline in gas net income was driven primarily by MSR valuation, which I will discuss more detail on the next page.

We also show earnings per share as both current and diluted for comparison purposes.

I'll move now to the walk on the right side, which has the main drivers of improvement from the third quarter adjusted pre-tax income result of an 8 million dollar loss to the fourth quarter result of a $3 million loss, and is a reminder adjusted pre-tax income is a non-get metric.

Servicing had a strong fourth quarter and generated an $18 million adjusted pre-tax income, which was an $11 million improvement over the prior quarter. Cost reductions played a big part across the company as Glenn has previously mentioned, with reductions here captured in both servicing and origination data.

as well as a $5 million improvement over the prior quarter in the corporate overhead areas. Across the company, we will continue to see positive impacts on cost reduction in the first quarter due to actions taken during Q4 that don't show a full quarter impact as of yet.

Origination had a more challenging quarter as it dropped to a break-even adjusted pre-tax income, which was a decline of $11 million from the prior quarter, primarily due to lower volumes in compressed margins. This drop exceeded our prior anticipated drop of the negative $5 million as discussed on our third quarter call.

due to an even more challenging origination market.

So the company is a whole, the last two quartership market improvements from the second quarter as measured by adjusted pre-text income, and I will provide full year 2023 guidance at the end of the presentation.

I'd like to recap the notable items for the quarter that connect adjusted pre-text income back to GapNet income.

We provide adjusted pre-tax income for greater investor transparency and it is a metric we use in managing the business. The fourth quarter notables which are detailed in the appendix consist primarily of a $61 million decline in MSR fair value adjustments net of hedge.

And a $14 million loss in other notables, primarily $6 million due to severance and $6 million impact on the long-term incentive plan which creates more cost on a cash-subtle basis as our stock price rises.

Despite the notable reductions in the fourth quarter, we still generated a better ROE in full year 2022 than the prior year, coming in at 6%. We believe we remain on track to achieve gap and adjusted pre-tax income profitability in the first half of 2023, assuming no adverse changes to our business or the industry.

For more information on our MSR evaluation, please turn to page 11.

This page focuses solely on our forward MSR valuation, which was a net decline of $65 million for the quarter. The appendix will show you that the reverse MSR has gained $4 million in the quarter as a reverse MSR is a natural hedge to a Ford MSR.

of the decline in value for the Ford MSR's roughly 70% in the fourth quarter is attributed to changes in modeling assumptions.

The biggest assumption changes were increasing the discount rate on our GSE, which is Fannie May and Freddie Mac Book. This is about 75% of our own portfolio and we took the discount rate from 9% to 9.5%.

We did this during the quarters. We saw market valuations in the bulk market reflect lower multiples than prior quarters part of this may have been driven by a supply to demand mismatch Which drove the bulk market to lower valuations than an MSR created via the origination market

The other significant assumption change was increasing our claim loss expectations for Genime MSRs in the event that a recession might occur in 2023 with commensurate impacts on the borrower's ability to stay current on their mortgage. Moving over to the grass, the top left grass.

shows the last four quarters of impact on MSR evaluation. The life blue bars indicate the rate move impacts, and then the dark blue boxes indicate a consistent prudent trend on assessing our valuation model inputs. Finally,

The lower graph shows the impact of the MSR value changes for aqua-in versus eight or nine comparable companies that are both bank and non-banks over the last four quarters. As you can see, we continue to maintain a fairly prudent approach to marking our MSRs.

which we believe gives us a lower risk of market margin calls from our lenders and the event that the MSR valuation declines as well as providing us flexibility to dynamically manage our portfolio.

Finally, for reference, we also show the approximate fair value impact if we had moved the Mark II in average, which is about a .2-mult change.

Now let's turn to page 12 where we will cover more detailed segment information. We'll start with servicing.

Adjusted pre-tax income is shown on the upper left chart. The servicing business continue to trend of increasing profitability in the boat forward and reverse servicing areas driven by float improvements, lower runoff, better delinquencies and therefore lower advances and increased scale due to higher UPB as well as the cost reductions.

This is offset with a higher cost of debt due to rise in short-term rates, and the total result was a positive $18 million adjusted pre-tax income or an increase of $11 million from last quarter.

The strongest improvement was in the reverse servicing area where we grew profits from 1 million to $6 million for the quarter. This was a function of the continued integration in the reverse space, which allows us a lower cost to serve, as well as an improvement in performance-based fee income and incremental flowed improvements as we leverage various banking relationships.

to optimize our return on deposits. We continue to add to the Reverse Subservicing Book 2023 with our World Class Service offering.

As a reminder, this result exceeded the guidance that we provided a year ago as we began the integration of RMS, the reverse service required in the second half of 2021.

Moving to the right, subservicing growth improved in Q4 and posted a strong year-over-year growth trend of 18%. As expected, improvements in flowed income continued on our roughly $1.5 billion of custodial balances as well as a better return on our operating cash accounts.

Finally, like any successful servicer, we have focused on maximizing the aspects we can control. Continuously improving our cost structure while keeping quality and customer service at the forefront. You can see in the lower right graph that improving trend. Some of this improvement reflects the integration of reverse with forward activities and the additional use of our Asian versus.

Asia-Pacific Operations in selected areas.

Please turn to page 13 for an overview of our reverse business, both servicing and origination.

Here we have a combined look at reverse origination and reverse servicing. We run each respective business as a component of the broader origination or servicing operating units and report the results as part of those businesses on other pages.

Here we wanted to remind investors of some of the unique facets of our reverse activities that distinguish us from competitors and help create sustainable value.

The year-over-year comparison shows how reverse is a reflection of our broader balanced business model. The origination profits, while still strong in 2022, came down from prior years as we saw lower volumes in margins than we have seen previously. The improvements on the servicing side were driven primarily due to the reverse servicing acquisition previously mentioned.

The upper right graph demonstrates our growth in reverse subservicing, which is a very high ROE low liquidity demand business, same as forward, allows us to generate recurring revenue without the liquidity risk of owning servicing advances or handling buyouts at the 98% maximum claim amount. The lower left graph

shows how we are highly indexed to the Ginny Mae Heckham product versus the private label or proprietary product that some other competitors have used in the origination space. The private label product is more dependent on the volatile securitization market for an exit strategy.

and create the risk of holding too much product at any point in time that that market ceases up. Also, if the Ginny May Heckham product we do hold is primarily a newer vintage post-market reform, which comes with stronger borrower guardrails to avoid certain types of delinquencies or foreclosure scenarios.

Finally, I would point out that we don't leverage our reverse MSRs as that market is not yet fully developed. And on the buy-out side, we do have committed financing that we view as more than sufficient for our current buy-out projections.

Thus both in reverse origination and reverse servicing, we are pursuing a prudent, profitable approach to be successful in this market, and we believe our results reflect that.

Please turn to page 14 for details on the origination second.

The origination business had a more challenging fourth quarter versus the third quarter due to continue to climb in total market volume, seasonal contraction, and lower margins partly attributed to the disconnect previously mentioned between MSR values and the bulk market versus the origination market. Specifically,

As we anticipated in this difficult originations market, consumer direct volume again decline quarter over quarter, but we were able to offset most of that income decline with cost reductions.

On the next page, we reach out the current state of our origination business on page 17. We think at this point we have right-sized all of our origination channel costs and the businesses appropriately scaled for the smaller operating environment that we face in 2023.

We are continuing to expand our institutional clients' space in the flow and correspondent channels, again, with a focus on clients who participate in higher margin products such as best efforts and non-delegated, which plays well into our full service operational base.

Finally, we have not lost sight of recaptured spite record low market volumes, and our second half recapture was over 60 percent demonstrating our ability to add value to both our own book and subservicing getting borrowers to refinance with our team.

We will continue to focus on serving our course-funded direct retail customers as well as maintaining a high standard for gaining strong compliance and risk parameters.

On page 16 we have a view of our stock price relative to both index performance and book value for share.

We continue to deliver sustained growth and book value for share with year end 2022 book value up 17%.

In addition, we have grown earnings for share in 2022 with an increase of almost 50% compared to last year.

At the end of the year, our stock was trading at 50% of current bulk. We think this discount is not representative of the value we are creating, nor of our current balance sheet, but it is a strong improvement from the third quarter.

In conclusion, let's turn to page 17 for some guidance on adjusted pre-tax income for 2023.

For ease of comparison, we've retained the guidance we provided in last quarter earnings release, so you can compare that to our current view for 2023.

And I'm not going to go through all the data, but we have various metrics provided here for both servicing and the origination business as well as OpEx guidance for the corporate overhead group. Addison significant changes in MSR values and other notables such as legal settlements or severance.

We forecast GAP pretext income to roughly mirror adjusted pretext income as our forecast is a flat interest rate view with respect to MSR evaluation, floating income, and interest expense. Before I turn the mic back to Glenn, I wanted to point out to investors a few additional data points that we've included in our appendix of this earnings debt.

First, we have data on fully diluted shares and equity. This information allows for the most conservative view if all of the O3 warrants were executed on an all-cash settled basis. We also put note the impact of a cashless scenario, assuming an exercise at our stock price at the end of January 2023.

is a reminder, Oak Tree Warns are described in full detail in our 10K, either in the 2021 version or the 22 version coming out later today.

On our MSR evaluation assumption page, we have added data on the valuation multiple and show the trailing order for ease of reference.

With respect to our balance sheet, we provide a more granular view. This is the slide titled condensed balance sheet breakdown. This delineates assets that require matching asset and liability gross ups under gap treatment. This is primarily due to an inability to achieve accounting through sale. And these balance sheet impacts fall into one of three categories.

The first one being the assets being subserviced from MAD or RIDM, the second being reverse HECMA assets, and the third being Genime MSRs that are eligible for an early buyout or an EVO.

one being the assets being subserviced from MAD or RIDM, the second being reverse HECMA assets, and the third being Genie May MSRs that are eligible for an early buyout or an EVO.

Thanks, Sean. Please turn to slide 18 for a few wrap-up comments before we go to Q&A. I'm proud of how our team is executing and the results we delivered in 2022. Double to your growth and earnings and book value for share.

Capital Efficient Portfolio Growth, Prudent MSR Valuation, Reduced Enterprise Wide Operating Cost, and Reimproved Our Liquidity Position.

We believe are balanced and diversified business, exemplary servicing performance, proven cost management, and track record of execution position as well to navigate the market environment ahead. We're executing a focus growth strategy, leveraging our superior operating capabilities to grow subservicing across multiple investor and product types. We're executing a focus growth strategy, leveraging our superior operating capabilities to grow subservicing across multiple investor and product types.

Our subservicing opportunity pipeline is over $300 billion and we are positioned to deliver value to clients, investors and consumers in an economic downturn.

We remain steadfast in our pursuit of industry-leading servicing cost structure by driving continuous costs and process improvement and will continue to optimize expenses further during 2023. We remain equally steadfast in maintaining industry-leading operating performance.

customer and client satisfaction and providing an unmatched breadth of capabilities. Finally, we continue to expand our capital partner relationships and we are prudently managing capital and liquidity for economic and industry volatility and opportunity to seek investment as strong returns in the dynamic market.

We believe with the successful execution of our business initiatives and the stable origination's market, we can deliver positive adjusted pre-text income, and we believe we're taking the actions necessary to operate at our targeted R&W range before notable items. Overall, we're excited about the potential of our business and do not believe our recent share price is reflective.

of our financial position or earnings power for the strength of our business. And with that, Renon, let's open up the call for questions. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad.

A confirmation tone will indicate your line isn't the question queue. You may press start 2 if you'd like to remove yourself from the question queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the start keys. One moment please, while we call for questions.

And just in terms of deployable capital, you noted that 219 million of liquidity. Now how much of that would you characterize this deployable?

Hey, Bose. In terms of market yields for MSRs, frankly, we're seeing a pretty wide range. For GSC MSRs, I'd say 9-ish to 11-ish percent returns, probably 10-12 or 10-14 percent returns on genie-mays. Reverse is probably consistent with the genie-may MSR yields as well, too. We need some.

in terms of deployable capital, we think that liquidity position is adequate enough for us to execute the plan that we laid out here. You know, as we said, we're maintaining a liquidity cushion for interest rate volatility, economic volatility. We've seen fairly dramatic movement in interest rates during the course of the fourth quarter and even during the first part of 2023.

So right now we're maintaining a, I'll just call it a patient approach to managing liquidity and capital in the context of a volatile market and what we think are going to be some pretty interesting opportunities for asset investments at a very attractive returns in 2023.

Okay, it makes sense. Thanks. And then in terms of that 85 billion of growth in subservicing that you projected, is there a kind of a breakout of how much of that is through math versus other? You know, we don't disclose that. We haven't disclosed that yet in our public documents nor does it appear anywhere in our pay.

You know, look, we're looking to, you know, to manage it opportunistically. So we've got a very strong and robust pipeline of subservicing, potential subservicing clients. You know, we're looking to close transactions out of that pipeline that includes both Forward and Reverse clients. And then as well, leverage Mav and our other capital partners. So we're not approaching the year with the prescribed.

You know, mix per se, but just give any opportunities. That's what we think we can add. Okay, great. And actually just one more. You know, there was this bankruptcy recently in the reverse space. Is that MSR going to be sort of auctioned in the market? Is that an opportunity for you guys? Yeah, I think it's you and others may know, the MSRs were taken over by Ginny May. So Ginny May owns those MSRs now. I don't know.

I don't think Genie May's long-term goal, and again, this is my own assessment, not theirs, is to be an MSR owner. I don't think that's why they're focuses. So, ultimately, I think those MSRs may go to market. Again, depending upon the return we can get, we would look at those MSRs to purchase them.

But also, if somebody else wants to purchase them, we could subservice as well too. We're one of two subservices in the industry. And frankly, from an alignment with our business model, subservice in MSRs is probably a more attractive opportunity than purchasing a Mountright.

Also, if somebody else wants to purchase them, we could subservice as well too. We're one of two subservicers in the industry. And frankly, from alignment with our business model, subservicing MSRs is probably a more attractive opportunity than purchasing a Mountright. Makes sense, great. Thank you.

Our next question comes from Lee Cooperman with Omega Family Office. Thank you. Three questions actually. What are your capital management intentions in 2023? Do you expect to re-enounce a buyback or are you going to stay where you are?

Right now, Lee. Yeah, right now, Lee, from a capital management perspective, we're not, we've not announced a buyback for this quarter. We'll continuously reevaluate a liquidity position and market opportunities, but for right now, we're holding capital liquidity for volatility and opportunistic investment.

We are firing co-correctly earlier last year you were talking about earning a double digit R a week for a company.

We, uh, if I recall correctly earlier last year, you were talking about earning a double digital ROE for the company. Now we're earned about 4.9% return equity.

You know, what went wrong? And you have a view. You know, you get out of many numbers, but what do you think is a standable return equity for this business is the way you expect to run it?

Yeah, Leigh has, you know, consistent with what we said before, we think the potential for the businesses, you know, high single digit to low double digit, you know, to mid-teen return on equity before notable items. You know, that does take a stable originations market to, you know, deliver those kind of returns. And we've not seen a stable originations market during the course of 2023.

Sean said we're continuing to chip away at the cost structure of the business.

growing scale in our business and we believe if we achieve our scale and our growth objectives and have the stable origination market we can operate within our return targets. We return target for this year with a 9% pre-tax return equity.

Which is not particularly attractive. What is your marginal tax rate going to be? So what is the F tax return equity of that 9% pre-tax?

61 dollar book value that's kind of what you expect to weigh a earnings of the current year.

Assuming our assumptions for the environment, pan out, that's correct.

Do you consider ourselves a viable entity as an independent company? Do you think, given our course to Capitol, et cetera, that we're better off merging with somebody? And if we're so good, why has nobody bid for us to come after us, given the substantial discount to book value that we sell at them? So Lee, I absolutely think we're a viable entity. We've been delivering double digit growth in our earnings book, in our earnings. I'm putting this to a plate, to limit the eye of the founder that they are.

appreciated by the market.

And we're going to continue to operate our business to achieve our return objectives.

and we're going to continue to operate our business to achieve our return objectives. All right, talk later. Thank you.

Sir. Our next question comes from Kyle Joseph with Jeffries. Hey, good morning guys. I think you're taking my questions. Just on that 9%

RLE assuming origination stabilized. You know, where are we in the market? Obviously, rates of impact of demand, supplies, and chasing demand down. Is it just a function of if we get rates stability at this point as there have been enough demand removed from the market that that would be enough to lead to stabilization just in your opinion. Kind of a crystal ball question I apologize.

Yeah, look, as we think about the originations, I think a couple of things have to happen. Number one, relatively stable rate environment. We've not seen anything like that. So we've seen rates drop materially and then come back up even during the course of the first quarter, so far in 2023.

You know, probably close to a 50 to 70 basis point movement in a 30 year fixed rate mortgatory. So rate stability is number one. And look, I still think there's excess capacity in the origination space in a material way. I do think capacity's got to come out of the system.

And right now we are seeing people, frankly, from our perspective, probably approaching the market with pricing levels to fill operational capacity versus taking capacity out. Kyle, it's a Shawn. It's a lagging indicator, but if you look at a lot of our public peers that have already announced.

Many companies are struggling to generate what I'd call positive adjusted pre-tax income in the origination space. That, to me, is at least a lagging indicator that there's still access capacity in the market. We see some of the other big originator pure plays announced in the coming week and that I'll continue to inform that.

Yep, got it. I'm hopeful. And then, just on that, what are your expectations for, you know, reverse originations in 23 versus 22? Obviously, that mark is not immune to rate movements, but probably is impacted marginally differently than the forward side, but just kind of how you're thinking about our origination.

for that product. Yeah, well, look, there's no, you know, equivalent, you know, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, MBA forecast for the reverse market. So you'll look our assumption right now is, you know, the market is going to shrink probably at least on a comparable basis to the forward market.

You know, reverse originations are largely influenced by short-term interest rates and with short-term rates going from, you know, sub 1% to the, you know, 5% percent level in over a two-year period, that'll take a, you know, really limits the amount of equity of the, a bar can take out of their home.

in the form of a reverse mortgage. So even though home values, even if they're stable, the amount of cash out you can get is come down and that takes some, puts some buyers and some reverse mortgage customers on the sidelines. So we do expect to see a fairly sizable reduction comparable to what we see in the forward side.

impact reverse as well until short-term rates can come back to a more reasonable level. Got it. Very helpful. Thanks for answering my questions. Yes, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press the star

Our next question comes from Matthew Howlett with Beavroly. Oh, hey, thanks for taking my question. Good morning. Glenn, just getting back to the MSR mark. I mean, look, I appreciate the conservatism, the outline, you know, the yield, the bid to ask squadron, the yield discount rate moving higher. We've seen also a big, a big, uh, moving rate since year and.

My question to you is how willing are you to sell some more home MSRs if there is a bit out there? Indeed, lever, it just moves away from sort of this market-to-market volatility, paying on your lines to focus on subsurface. Yes, so look, we are in the market pretty much on a quarterly-

As you know, we also have a fair amount of corporate debt on our balance sheet, about $500 billion of corporate debt between the OTC notes and the PHH, PHH op-code notes. Those notes are not prepayable without penalty. So, you know, we're thinking about selling.

MSRs, in addition to paying down the variable debt, the variable industry debt to secure MSR financing that we have, you'd want to use the proceeds to pay down some of the corporate leverage as well too. And unfortunately right now, where we are with our corporate debt,

The prepayment penalties would be fairly high unless we tend in the open market, which is something we did during 2022. But look, in small bite-sized pieces, it is feasible at the right returns and the right economics to take some value off the table. The prepayment penalties would be fairly high, which is something we did during 2022.

and sell some MSRs and redeploy the capital in the business elsewhere and arguably to reduce that. Sean, can you thoughts? Yeah, Matt, the one thing I'd add is there's a nuance as we have engaged in different sales transactions over the last two quarters, so Q3 and Q4, we pursued some excess servicing strip transactions and you'll see the details of that.

our portfolio and a dynamic fashion where we can, you know, sell in existing MSR to good return, and then, you know, in turn, as we originate some higher coupon MSRs, we'll replace that and slowly increase the whack of the book. But the EFS transactions allow us to retain the scale on the servicing side and still generate cash. So it's kind of an interesting transaction for us in that respect.

and we did, I believe at least three of those in the last two quarters. That's where I'm going with it. To me, you've been successful buying back debt. I think the senior debt trades below 90 and you obviously that's a creative to buying that back. I know what does it get for shareholders? Being the most conservative guy out there with MSR marks is great, but I don't know what it gets shareholders. You're stark-arty trades at a huge income to reported books.

And the book is underceded. I'm not sure what that does. And Tim, you make a lot of sense. Is there an update on SMSRs moved up in value with the, you know, with the 4% yield? Since your end, could you give us a little nap shot on what's happened to MSR Marks post-quarter end?

Yeah, we are seeing stronger bids or higher moths on predominantly, at least the GSE MSRs that we see in the market. So we actively track all bids that we're aware of that hit the market. And obviously participate where we're interested. And we are through the month of February seeing.

Definitely higher molds versus the fourth quarter, probably due to maybe more investors showing up because the supply continues to be really robust. And so it's an interesting scenario where there's very strong amounts hitting the market, but slightly improved valuations on those.

Great, look, you have a great platform. I just see in the market market, but all of the tillies are kind of difficult to model. On that note, just give me the number again on the improvement in every, he said, billion of UPPU add, you see two and a half three bits of margin. Just give me those numbers again, but. Yeah, for subservicing additions, we said for every.

Last question, we'll wait for the K, but can you just give us the DTA to reserve against the DTA at your end? I don't have that handy, that's actually going to be in the K, which is released later today, so that'll be accessible at that point.

Gotcha. And it's still three. The timeframe is so at three years to profitability until you can start to release some of that. Is that sort of the timing with the...

It's still three, the timeframe is still at three years to profitability until you can start to release some of that. Is that sort of the timing with the shot clock, if you will?

It's unfortunately like everything to do in the world of taxes. It's not that cut and dry. There's not an incredible bright line. And so we have to continuously consult with our outside tax council and auditors. You know, we actually think it's a sustained view of probably less than three years, but you know, in excess of one year of sustained profitability on a gap basis, which allows you to drop the valuation on how it's recognized the NOL.

Great, no, I just think there's a lot of value and potentially in that shareholders will give you credit for it and be nice to see that come on the balance sheet. At some point, no, it doesn't work. Appreciate taking the questions. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Matt. Thank you. Our next question comes from Eric Hagen with BTIG.

Great, no, I just think there's a lot of value and potentially in that shareholders will give you credit for it And you know be nice to see that come on the balance sheet. You know at some point. No, it doesn't appreciate taking the question. Thanks guys Our next question comes from Eric Hagen with BTIG Hey, good morning guys. The ball is going well

I just got a couple here. I mean, how much liquidity are room on the funding lines do you have to buy MSRs for yourselves away from Mav?

And maybe how you characterize the market for MSR financing, especially advanced funding right now. And even the quality of financing that you guys can get with the leverage in the overall business right now. And then maybe I'll just kind of a little follow up about what is the difference in ROE when MSRs are financed through MAV versus finance on your own balance sheet. Thank you guys. Sure, thanks Eric, it's Sean, I'll take that.

So, you talked about what I view as two very different financing facilities or two distinct facilities. So, there's MSR financing and then servicing advanced facilities. And we typically, like a lot of our competitors, structure those separately. The exception being a Ginny May book where you have to typically combine them due to the acknowledgement agreement that Ginny May would...

one line for our Ginny's and we have several lines for our GSEs.

You know, one or two lenders have moved in or out of the space, but predominantly speaking, we're still seeing broad-based interest.

It's a fairly well understood asset. It's fairly, I don't want to say predictable, but there's extensive modeling. A lot of the banks that have mortgage deaths of their own have high confidence in understanding what GSE and Genie May MSRs do, and so that allows them to stay in that market. Similar on the servicing advances, that's actually even a little bit deeper between the regional and the large banks.

In terms of advanced rate and spread, terms have been stable to improving over the last eight quarters. You'll typically see anywhere between 60 to 70 percent advance rates on the GSEs and probably a five-point reduction for Ginny Mays. They suffer a slightly lower but still generous enough advance rate.

And the spreads have been pretty stable as well. And then I, you want to repeat your last question with respect to MAV and ROE. Yeah, the difference. Thanks. I'm just trying to do a piece of part of the difference in ROE between...

MSR is getting to the answer to the math versus on your own balance sheet. And maybe you can talk about the liquidity to buy MSR's through math versus on your own balance sheet.

Sure, so MADF definitely generates a high ROE for us because we commit less equity. So we're a 15% owner of MADF. MADF, you know, separately go into the D, we're a minority owner, and MADF has access to a committed...

250 million of additional capital provided by both us and O3 at that 8515 split, 15 for us, 85 for O3. And we think that's more than adequate to support kind of Mads near-term intentions. Mad financing is separate from ours, but we're very aware of their financing. And so that kind of informs some of my earlier comments in terms of their ability to generate returns and obtain financing date.

They focus just on the GSEs currently. They don't buy Ginny Maze or PLS. But I would view them as a similar and still opportunistic buyer, but separate from Auckland, of course.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Thank you guys very much. I appreciate it. Thanks, Eric. Thank you.

There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the floor back over to Glen and the scene of your closing callments. Thanks, Renon. I'd like to thank our shareholders and keep business partners for supporting our business. I'd also like to thank and recognize our board of directors and global business team for the hard work and commitment to our success. I look forward to updating everyone on our progress at our next...

Quarters, earnings call. Thank you. This concludes today's audio conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for participation and have a great day.

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question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce one of your hosts, Mr. Dico Exorillion, Senior Vice President of Corporate Communications. Please go ahead, sir.

Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Occles' full year in fourth quarter 2022 earnings call. Please note that our earnings release and slide presentation are available on our website. Speaking on the call of the Occles' chair, and chief executive officer Glenn Dacina, and chief financial officer Sean O'Neill. As a reminder, the presentation are comments today may contain forward-looking statements made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the federal security's laws. These forward-looking statements may be identified by reference to a future period or by use of forward-looking terminology and address matters that are to different degrees uncertain. You should bear this uncertainty in mind and should not place undue reliance on such statements.

because there are measures that management uses to assess the financial performance of our operations and allocate resources.

Non- GAAP financial measures should be viewed in addition to, and not as an alternative for, the company's reported results under accounting principles generally accepted in the United States. The reconciliation of the non- GAAP measures , using this presentation to their most directly comparable GAAP measures , as well as additional information regarding wide management believes these measures may be useful to investors, may be found in the press release and the appendix to the investor presentation. Now, I will turn the call over to Glen Macina. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining our call. We're looking forward to sharing our progress with you this morning.

Today, we'll review a few highlights for the full year and fourth quarter, take you through our actions to address the market environment, and discuss why we believe our balanced and diversified model can deliver long-term value. Please turn to slide three. I'm proud of the results we delivered in 2022. Our balanced and diversified business model is working well. As you all know, with rising interest rates, the servicing environment improves substantially while the origination's environment remains quite challenging. We delivered full year net income of $26 million, and earnings per share of $2.97 of 42% and 49% respectively, versus 2021.

which was up 18% over prior year end. Our subservicing opportunity pipeline remained strong up 4% over prior year end levels. Regarding our cost structure, I'm proud of the work done by our global team who delivered $100 million in end-wise cost reduction versus the second quarter 2022, much better than our initial target.

Expense efficiency in both originations and servicing improve materially versus 2021. Lastly, total liquidity of $219 million is up 13% versus year end 2021. Last year, we completed $50 million in Sherry purchases, retiring 1.75 million shares at an average price of $28.53 and repurchased $25 million of our PHH notes. Going forward, we are preserving capital liquidity to enable opportunistic investments, given our expectations for potential investment returns in 2023, as well as for interest rate and economic volatility. Overall, I'm pleased with our results in navigating this business cycle. We believe our balance and diversified business model is performing well.

and remain confident in our ability to execute on those items that are within our control. Now let's turn to slide forward to discuss the environment and our value creation plan. The conditions in servicing are more favorable than they've been in years and servicing is a core strength of our business model. MSR values have risen materially since 2021 and servicing profitability as improving. We are seeing increased investment opportunities in distress assets and certain MSRs with attractive returns and we expect elevated bulk volume to persist. Potential client interest in subservicing range strong, client delays are easing and our opportunity pipeline is robust. We are seeing increased interest in the mortgage sector from investors who are seeking partners to source and service MSRs, hull loans and non-performing loans.

Moving to Originations, we expect market conditions will continue to be challenging. Fannie Mae is forecasting industry originations volumes of 1.7 trillion for 2023, that's down 29% from 2022. We expect nominal refinance activity in the near term, even if the 30-year fixed mortgage rate were to decline to 4%, roughly 12% of outstanding mortgages have a refinance incentive. GSE actions to support enterprise goals are driving pricing and margin volatility, competition is intent, and we are seeing several market participants with a substantially more aggressive view of new origination MSR values relative to both market levels versus our own. We are seeing heightened M&A opportunities and expect consolidation in both origination and servicing. As we said before, the Board of Management are committed to evaluating all options to maximize our value for our shareholders. In this environment, we believe our core strength and servicing is the right foundation.

Our value creation plan built on this core strength has five key elements. Leverage our balance and diversified business model, prudent growth adapted to the environment, an industry leading servicing cost structure, top tier operational performance, and unmatched breadth of capabilities, and capital and partner relationships to support our growth objectives. Let's turn to slide five to discuss the benefits of a balanced and diversified business model. Our balance business and key operating actions have driven consistent net income improvement since 2019. Over the last three years servicing and originations have demonstrated complementary financial performance with servicing gap pre-tax income improving to offset declining profitability and originations. As Sean will discuss, this is true for both forward and reverse. Based on the Fannie Mae forecast for interest rates and industry volume, and our productivity and portfolio growth initiatives, we expect servicing adjusted pre-tax income to improve further in 2023.

While our deliberate strategy to diversify our portfolio reduces our risk exposure in the event of a recession, we expect to have capacity to support special subservicing should market conditions drive increased demand. Let's turn to slide 6 to discuss our growth focus in the current environment.

Our growth strategy is focused on driving capital-light subservicing and higher margin origination products and channels. Our origination team performed well in 2022 with MSR originations excluding bulk transactions down 27% versus prior year while the total market was down 48%.

In contrast, subservicing additions were roughly flat to prior year at 55 billion. Throughout 2022, the originations team continuously adjusted to market conditions, addressing our cross structure, integrating the phone and reverse originations platforms where possible, growing our total client base by 21 percent, and growing high margin product clients by 41 percent. The impact of our enterprise sales team is evident.

in the growth of our total servicing portfolio, which is up 8% versus prior year, and 53% over the last two years. Our subservicing portfolio is up 18% versus prior year, and 70% over the last two years. We delivered on our objective increasing our mix of higher margin origination products up 7 percentage points versus prior year, and we've nearly doubled the mix percentage over the last two years. We believe our enterprise has approached and multi-travel strategy will continue to drive portfolio growth in 2023.

Now please turn to slide 7 for an update on our expense management actions. We remain committed to achieving and maintaining an industry-leading service and cost structure. Our team has made great progress in 2022, managing our operating costs to realize $100 million in annualized expense reduction versus the second quarter of 2022. Our continuous cost improvement actions are focused on driving sustainable cost reduction, supporting the most essential activities while maintaining a prudent risk and compliance management framework. Our cost structure measured in basis points is down 27% and 41% from the fourth quarter 2022 versus 4 Q2 021 and full year 2020 respectively. Our goal is to further reduce our service and operating cost structure in 2023. In basis points of UPB, by roughly another 10%.

Last year, we achieved double-digit improvement in our variable operating costs for all major portfolio segments, and we're targeting to deliver meaningful improvements again this year. We're driving automation, digital migration, and other systemic process enhancements, consistent with our technology roadmap, and focus on continuous process improvement. And we continue to leverage our proprietary global operating platform, which has been in place for over 20 years and supports all business activities. Notwithstanding our focus on productivity, we continue to maintain industry-leading operational performance and improve service delivery to customers, clients, and investors. We believe the improvements we've made to our cost structure can enable meaningful profit improvement as we grow our servicing portfolio. Assuming a standard GSE subservicing revenue profile without any further improvement in our cost structure, we can add between two and a half to three basis points in pre-text income per billion dollars of UPB added. We would expect the profit contribution from government, reverse, commercial, and special servicing additions to have a more significant pre-text income contribution per billion dollars of UPB added.

Our breadth of capabilities is unmatched to the industry.

We service forward, reverse, and small-bounce commercial loan portfolios covering GSE, Genie-Main, Federal Home loan bank, and PLS products. We are one of the industry's largest PLS servicers with a proven expertise servicing distress assets and creating positive outcomes for homeowners, clients, and investors. We are the industry's only integrated reverse issuer and servicer and one of two subservicing providers for reverse mortgages. We've earned the trust of clients and partners as evidenced by over $100 billion in subservicing additions in the last 24 months and a potential opportunity pipeline of over $300 billion. We're excited about the growing investment opportunities that are emerging in the market.

our total servicing portfolio through subservicing additions. The cornerstone of our cap of the management over the past two years has been mapped.

Since completing the upsides in mid-fourth quarter, MAD has issued or has purchased $15 billion in MSRUPB at attractive pricing levels. During the fourth quarter, we close trades with two new capital providers.

utilizing an excess servicing fee financing structure. These transactions provide additional funding diversification, as well as mitigate a meaningful portion of our propanement risk exposure. With these new capital partners, we've implemented an MSR best execution structure for flow sales of MSR's purchase through our origination channels further enhancing our ability to grow our servicing portfolio on a capital-like basis. Looking ahead, we're focused on developing additional investor relationships.

to support our growth objectives across multiple asset types. We are evaluating a diverse range of potential structures across six potential capital partners to satisfy the unique need of each investor and further diversify our structural alternatives. Our investor-driven approach to MSR purchases introduces an added level of price discipline to our independent valuation expert benchmarking process. Throughout 2022, we are able to monetize MSRs at levels at or above our acquisition cost.

We believe the development of investor relationships will help us achieve our servicing scale objectives while allowing us to manage our own MSR portfolio to between $115 and $135 billion. Again, I want to thank our business partners at Oak Tree and our new MSR investor partners for the trust and confidence they have placed in our team to help them achieve their growth and profitability objectives. We take this responsibility seriously and we will deliver out our commitments. Now, we'll turn it over to Sean to discuss our results for the fourth quarter and outlook for 2023. Thank you, Glenn. Please turn to slide 10 for our financial highlights.

Starting in the right data column, for full year 2022 we recognize GapNet income of $26 million for a full year earnings per share amount of $2.97 which led to book value for share of $61 for an increase of 17% year-over-year. In the fourth quarter we realized a loss in GapNet income of $80 million with a corresponding decline in Q4 for earnings per share in book value. The decline in GapNet income was driven primarily by MSR evaluation which I will discuss in more detail on the next page. We also show earnings per share as both current and deluded for comparison purposes. I'll move now to the walk on the right side which has the main drivers of improvement from the third quarter adjusted pre-tax income result of an $8 million per share.

to the fourth quarter result of a $3 million loss, and is a reminder, adjusted pre-tax income is a non-gat metric. Servicing had a strong fourth quarter and generated an $18 million adjusted pre-tax income, which was an $11 million improvement over the prior quarter. Cost reductions played a big part across the company, as Glenn has previously mentioned, with reductions here captured in both servicing and origination data, as well as a $5 million improvement over the prior quarter and the corporate overhead areas. Across the company, we will continue to see positive impacts on cost reduction in the first quarter due to actions taken during Q4 that don't show a full quarter impact as of yet. As we do, lower volumes and compressed margins, this drop exceeded our prior anticipated drop of the negative $5 million as...

in the fourth quarter. We still generated a better ROE in full year 2022 than the prior year coming in at 6%. And we believe we remain on track to achieve gap and adjusted pre-text income profitability in the first half of 2023, assuming no adverse changes to our business or the industry. For more information on our MSR valuation, please turn to page 11.

The cost of the decline in value for the Ford MSR is roughly 70% in the fourth quarter as attributed to changes in modeling assumptions. The biggest assumption changes were increasing the discount rate on our GSE, which is Fannie May and Freddie Mac Book. This is about 75% of our own portfolio and we took the discount rate from 9% to 9.5%. We did this during the quarters. We saw market valuations in the bulk market reflect lower multiples than prior quarters.

Moving over to the graph, the top left graph shows the last four quarters of impact on MSR evaluation. The light blue bars indicate the rate move impacts, and then the dark blue boxes indicate a consistent prudent trend on assessing our valuation model inputs. Finally, the lower graph shows the impact of the MSR value changes.

for Aqua and Versus eight or nine comparable companies that are both bank and non-banks over the last four quarters. As you can see, we continue to maintain a fairly prudent approach to marking our MSRs, which we believe gives us a lower risk of marked market margin calls from our lenders and the event that the MSR valuation declines, as well as providing us flexibility to dynamically manage our portfolio. Finally, for reference, we also show the approximate fair value impact if we had moved the mark to an average, which is about a 0.2-mult change.

Now let's turn to page 12 where we will cover more detailed segment information. We'll start with servicing. Adjusted pre-tax income is shown on the upper left chart. The servicing business continue to trend of increasing profitability in the boat forward and reverse servicing areas driven by float improvements, lower runoff, better delinquencies, and therefore lower advances in increased scale due to higher UPB as well as the cost reductions. This is offset with a higher cost of debt due to rise in short-term rates, and the total result was a positive $18 million adjusted pre-tax income or an increase of $11 million from last quarter. The strongest improvement was in the reverse servicing area where we grew profits from $1 million to $6 million for the quarter. This was a function of the continued integration in the reverse space, which allowed us a lower cost to serve, as well as an improvement in performance-based fee income and incremental float improvements as we leverage various banking relationships to optimize our return on deposits.

We continue to add to the Reverse Sub-Servicing Book 2023 with our World Class Service offering. As a reminder, this result exceeded the guidance that we provided a year ago as we began the integration of RMS, the Reverse Service required, and the second half of 2021. Moving to the right, subservicing growth improved in Q4 and posted a strong year-over-year growth trend of 18%. As expected, improvements in flowed income continued on our roughly $1.5 billion of custodial balances, as well as a better return on our operating cash accounts. Finally, like any successful servicer, we have focused on maximizing the aspects we can control.

Continuously improving our cost structure while keeping quality and customer service at the forefront. You can see in the lower right graph that improving trend. Some of this improvement reflects the integration of reverse with forward activities and the additional use of our Asia Pacific operations in selected areas. Please turn to page 13 for an overview of our reverse business, both servicing and origination. Here we have a combined look at reverse origination and reverse servicing. We run each respected business as a component of the broader origination or servicing operating units and report the results as part of those businesses on other pages. Here we wanted to remind investors of some of the unique facets of our reverse activities that distinguish us from competitors and help create sustainable value. We are a broader balanced business model. The origination profits while still strong in 2022 came down from prior years as we saw lower volumes in margins.

than we have seen previously. The improvements on the servicing side were driven primarily due to the reverse servicing acquisition previously mentioned. The upper right graph demonstrates our growth in reverse subservicing, which is a very high ROE low liquidity demand business, same as forward, allows us to generate recurring revenue without the liquidity risk of owning servicing advances or handling buyouts at the 98% maximum claim amount. The lower left graph shows how we are highly indexed to the Ginny May Heckham product versus the private label or proprietary product that some other competitors have used in the origination space. The private label product is more dependent on the volatile securitization market for an exit strategy and create the risk of holding too much product at any point in time that that market sees us up. Also, the Ginny May Heckham product we do hold is primarily a newer vintage post market reform, which comes with stronger borrower guard rails to avoid certain types of delinquenties or foreclosures scenarios.

Finally, I would point out that we don't leverage our reverse MSRs as that market is not yet fully developed, and on the buy-out side, we do have committed financing that we view as more than sufficient for our current buy-out projections. Thus both in reverse origination and reverse servicing, we are pursuing a prudent, profitable approach to be successful in this market, and we believe our results reflect that. Please turn to page 14 for details on the origination segment. The origination business had a more challenging fourth quarter versus the third quarter due to continued declines in total market volume, seasonal contraction, and lower margins partly attributed to the disconnect previously mentioned between MSR values and the bulk market versus the origination market. Specifically,

Coors funded and flow lending contributed a fairly smaller profit as we were not chasing margins, but rather pricing for an appropriate return. The Coors funded business continues to have a focus on higher margin products which help alleviate some of the mandatory lower volumes. As we anticipated in this difficult originations market, consumer direct volume again declined quarter over quarter, but we were able to offset most of that income decline with cost reductions. On the next page, we recap the current state of our origination business on page 17. We think at this point we have right-sized all of our origination channel costs and the businesses appropriately scaled for the smaller operating environment that we face in 2023.

First of all, origination exceeded our internal cost reduction goals and is delivered in annualized improvement of over $50 million on expenses, as you can see from comparing Q2 to Q4 results, and Q4 doesn't show the full-quarter impact of all the actions. We are continuing to expand our institutional client space in the flow and correspondent channels, again, with a focus on clients who participate in higher margin products such as best efforts and non-delegated, which plays well into our full-service operational base. Finally, we have not lost sight of recaptured, despite record low-market volumes, and our second half recapture was over 60 percent demonstrating our ability to add value to both our own book and subservicing by getting borrowers to refinance with our team. We will continue to focus on serving our corresponding direct retail customers as well as maintaining a high standard for gaining strong compliance and risk parameters. On page 16, we have a view of our stock price relative to both index performance and book value for share.

We continue to deliver sustained growth in book value for share with year end 2022 book value up 17%. In addition, we have grown earnings for share in 2022 with an increase of almost 50% compared to last year. At the end of the year, our stock was trading at 50% of current bulk. We think this discount is not representative of the value we are creating nor of our current balance sheet, but it is a strong improvement from the third quarter. In conclusion, let's turn to page 17 for some guidance on adjusted pre-tax income for 2023. For ease of comparison, we've retained the guidance we provided in last quarter earnings release. So you can compare that to our current view for 2023.

And I'm not going to go through all the data, but we have various metrics provided here for both servicing and the origination business as well as OPPIC guidance for the corporate overhead group. Addison significant changes in MSR values and other notables such as legal settlements or severance. We forecast GATP pretext income to roughly mirror adjusted pretext income as our forecast is a flat interest rate view with respect to MSR valuation, floating income, and interest expense. Before I turn the mic back to Glenn, I wanted to point out to investors a few additional data points that we've included in our appendix of this earnings debt. First, we have data on fully diluted shares and equity. This information allows for the most conservative view if all of the Oak Tree Worns were executed on an all-cash settled basis. We also put note the impact of a cashless scenario assuming an exercise at our stock price at the end of January 2023. Is a reminder, Oak Tree Worns are described in full detail in our 10K, either in the 2021 version or the 22 version coming out later today.

On our MSR valuation assumption page, we have added data on the valuation multiple and show the trailing quarter for ease of reference. With respect to our balance sheet, we provide a more granular view. This is the slide titled condensed balance sheet breakdown. This delineates assets that require matching asset and liability gross ups under gap treatment. This is primarily due to an inability to achieve accounting through sale. These balance sheet impacts fall into one of three categories. The first one being the assets being subserviced for math or rhythm. The second being reverse heckermassets and the third being Ginny May MSRs that are eligible for an early buyout or an EVO. That's your slide. Thanks, Sean. Please turn to slide 18 for a few wrap-up comments before we go to Q&A.

I'm proud of how our team is executing and the results we delivered in 2022. Double digit growth and earnings and book value per share, capital efficient portfolio growth, prudent MSR evaluation, reduced enterprise-wide operating costs, and we improved our liquidity position. We believe our balanced and diverse by business, exemplary servicing performance, proven cost management, and track record of execution position as well to navigate the market environment ahead. We're executing a focus growth strategy, leveraging our superior operating capabilities to grow subservicing across multiple investor and product types. Our subservicing opportunity pipeline is over $300 billion and we are positioned to deliver value to clients, investors, and consumers in an economic downturn.

We remain steadfast in our pursuit of industry leading servicing cost structure by driving continuous cost and process improvement and will continue to optimize expenses further during 2023. We remain equally steadfast in maintaining industry leading operating performance, customer and client satisfaction, and providing an unmatched breadth of capabilities. Finally, we continue to expand our capital partner relationships and we are prudently managing capital and liquidity for economic and industry volatility and opportunity to seek investment as strong returns in the dynamic market. We believe with the successful execution of our business initiatives and the stable rich nations market, we can deliver positive adjusted pre-tax income and we believe we are taking the actions necessary to operate at our targeted RLE range before notable items. Overall, we are excited about the potential of our business and do not believe our recent share prices reflective of our financial position or earnings power for the strength of our business. And with that, Renon, let's open up the call for questions. Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session.

We remain steadfast in our pursuit of industry-leading servicing cost structure by driving continuous cost and process improvement and will continue to optimize expenses further during 2023. We remain equally steadfast in maintaining industry-leading operating performance, customer and client satisfaction, and providing an unmatched breadth of capabilities. Finally, we continue to expand our capital partner relationships and we are prudently managing capital and liquidity for economic and industry volatility and opportunity to seek investment as strong returns in that dynamic market. We believe with the successful execution of our business initiatives and the stable-erit nations market, we can deliver positive adjusted pre-text income, and we believe we're taking the actions necessary to operate at our targeted R&E range before notable items. Overall, we're excited about the potential of our business and do not believe our recent share price is reflective of our financial position, our earnings power, or the strength of our business. And with that, Renon, let's open up the call for questions. Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please.

our pursuit of industry-leading servicing cost structure by driving continuous cost and process improvement and will continue to optimize expenses further during 2023. We remain equally steadfast in maintaining industry-leading operating performance, customer and client satisfaction, and providing an unmatched breadth of capabilities. Finally, we continue to expand our capital partner relationships and we are prudently managing capital and liquidity for economic and straight volatility and opportunity to seek investments as strong returns in that dynamic market. We have a question for earnings power for the strength of our business. Would that run on? Let's open up the call for questions. Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone-

documents, nor does it appear anywhere in our K. Look, we're looking to manage it opportunistically, so we've got a very strong and robust pipeline of potential subservicing clients. We're looking to close transactions out of that pipeline that includes both Forward and Reverse clients, as well, leverage Mav and our other capital partners. So we're not approaching the year with the prescribed mixed per se.

But just given the opportunity, that's what we think we can add. Okay, great. And actually just one more. There was this bankruptcy recently in the reverse space. Is that MSR going to be sort of auctioned in the market? Is that an opportunity for you guys? Yeah, I think it's you and others may know the MSRs were taken over by Ginny May. So Ginny May owns those MSRs now. You know, I don't think Ginny May's long-term goal. And again, this is my own assessment. Not theirs is to be an MSR owner. I don't think that's why they were, you know, their their focuses. So ultimately, I think those MSRs may go to market. Again, depending upon the return we can get, we would look at those MSRs to purchase them. But also, you know, if somebody else wants to purchase them, we could subservice as well too. Well, one of two subservicers in the industry. And Frank, you know, from an alignment with our business model, subservicing MSRs is probably a more attractive opportunity than purchasing them outright.

Okay, thanks, that's great. Thank you. Our next question comes from Lee Cooperman with Omega Family Office. Thank you. Three questions actually. What are your capital management tensions in 2023? Do you expect to re-enounce say, buy back or you're going to stay where you are? Your question? Right now, Lee. Yeah, right now, Lee, from a capital management perspective, we're not, we've not announced to buy back for this quarter. We'll continuously reevaluate a liquidity position and market opportunities, but for right now, we're holding capital and liquidity for volatility and opportunistic investment.

We are, if I recall correctly, earlier last year you were talking about earning a double digital ROE for a company. Now we're earned about 4.9% return and equity. You know, what went wrong? And you have a view, you know, you get at many numbers, but what do you think is sustainable return and equity for this business is the way you expect to run it? Yeah, Leigh has, you know, consistent with what we said before. We think the potential for the business is, you know, high single digital, low double digit, you know, to mid-teen return on equity before notable items. You know, that does take a stable originations market to, you know, deliver those kind of returns.

And we've not seen this, Dave Leridge Nation's market during the course of 2023. We saw a dramatic increase in interest rates, dramatic compression in margins, and significant over capacity in our originations platform for us and many across the industry. So market conditions and originations were probably the worst they could have been in years during 2022. You know, for 2023, as Sean said, we're continuing to chip away at the cost structure of the business, growing scale in our business. And we believe if we achieve our scale and our growth objectives and have the stable originations market, we can operate within our return targets. We return target for this year with a 9% pre-tax return equity, which is not particularly attractive. What is your marginal tax rate going to be? So what is the F tax return equity? That 9% pre-tax.

The reality is we pay very little in taxes and we've got substantial NOLs that are fully reserved on our balance sheet, so we wouldn't expect to be a meaningful taxpayer for the foreseeable future. Gotcha. So basically 9% apply to the 61 dollar book value that's kind of what you expect to weigh a earnings of the current year. Assuming our assumptions for the environment, pan out, that's correct. Do you consider ourselves a viable entity as an independent company? Do you think, given our course to capital, et cetera, that we're better off merging with somebody, and if we're so good, why has nobody bit for us to come after us, given the substantial discount to book value that we sell at them? So Lee, I absolutely think we're a viable entity. We've been delivering double digit growth in our earnings. We started at a loss position, but we have moved the business to a profitability position on a gap earning spaces. We are growing our portfolio. Clients are choosing us over our competitors in the subservicing space. So yes, I believe we're a viable business. As far as anybody bidding for us, I can't speak for other people. I think our business is attractive. I don't think the value of our businesses recognized and appreciated by the market. And we're going to continue to operate our business. To achieve our return objectives.

All right, talk later. Thank you. Sir. Our next question comes from Kyle Joseph with Jeffries. Good morning, guys. I'm sure that's taking my questions. Just on that 9% RLE assuming origination stabilized. You know, where are we in the market? Obviously rates of impact of demand supplies been chasing demand down. Is it just a function of if we get rates stability has at this point as there been enough demand removed from the market that that would be enough to to lead to stabilization just in your in your opinion kind of a crystal ball question. I apologize. Yeah, yeah, look it as we think about the original nation's work. I think a couple of things have to happen. Number one, relatively stable rate environment. We've not seen anything. Like that. So, you know, we've seen rates drop materially and then come back up even during the course of the first quarter so far in 2023. Probably close to a 50 to 70 basis point movement in the 30 year fix rate mortgatory. So rates stability is number one. And look, I still think there's excess capacity in the origination space.

in a material way. I do think capacity's got to come out of the system. Right now we are seeing people, frankly from our perspective, probably approaching a market with pricing levels to fill operational capacity versus taking capacity out. Kyle, it's Sean. It's a lagging indicator. But if you look at a lot of our public peers that have already announced, many companies are struggling to generate what I'd call positive adjusted pre-tax income in the origination space. That, to me, is at least a lagging indicator that there's still access capacity in the market. We see some of the other big originator pure plays announced in the coming week and that will continue to inform that.

Yep, got it. I hope so. And then just on that, what are your expectations for reverse originations in 23 versus 22? Obviously that mark is not immune to rate movements, but probably is impacted marginally differently than the forward side. I'm just kind of how you're thinking about our originations for that product. Yeah, well, look, there's no, you know, equivalent, you know, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, MBA forecast for the reverse market. So you'll look our our assumption right now is, you know, the market is going to shrink probably at least on a comparable basis to the forward market. You know, sub 1% to the, you know, five ish percent level in, in over a two year period, that'll take a, you know, really limits the amount of equity. A bar can take out of their home in the form of a reverse mortgage. So even though, you know, home values, even if they're stable, the amount of cash out, you can get is come down and that, you know, take some, put some buyers and some.

So, the quarterly basis both buying and selling MSRs, as you know, we work with MSR Investment Partners to fund the portion of our origination.

You know, we evaluate on a fairly continuous basis, as it makes more sense to hold MSRs versus sell MSRs. You know, as you know, we also have, you know, a fair amount of corporate debt on our balance sheet, about $500 million of corporate debt between the OTC notes and the PHH, PHH op-code notes. You know, those notes are not pre-payable without penalty. So, you know, if we're thinking about selling MSRs, in addition to paying down the variable debt, you know, the variable interest rate debt to secured MSR financing that we have, you'd want to use the proceeds to pay down some of the corporate leverage as well too. And unfortunately, right now, where we are with our corporate debt, you know, the pre-payment penalties would be fairly high, unless we tend to in the open market, which is something we did during 2022. But, you know, look, we'll, you know, in small bite-sized pieces, you know, it is feasible at the right returns and the right economics to, you know, take some value off the table and sell some MSRs and redeploy the capital into business elsewhere and arguably to reduce debt. So, any thoughts? Yeah, Matt, the one thing I'd add is there's a nuance as we have engaged in different sales transactions over the last two quarters. So, Q3 and Q4.

We pursued some excess servicing strip transactions, and you'll see the details of that broken out in our K as that requires slightly different counting. But the interesting thing about NESS transaction is your retaining the subservicing rights. So to your original question, it's been pointed out we actively are in the market and are looking for opportunities to, we view it as managing our portfolio in a dynamic fashion where we can sell in existing MSR to good return and then in turn as we originate some higher coupon MSRs, we'll replace that and slowly increase the whack of the book. But the EFS transactions allow us to retain the scale on the servicing side and still generate cash. So it's kind of an interesting transaction for us in that respect. And we did, I believe at least three of those in the last two quarters. And that's where I'm going with it. I mean to me, you've been successful buying back debt. I think the senior debt trades below 90. Obviously that's a creative to buying that back. And I don't know what does it get for shareholders being the most conservative guy out there with MSR marks is great. But I don't know what it gets shareholders. You're stark already trades at a huge discount to report it book. And if the book is understated, I'm not sure what that does. And to me, you make a lot of sense. Is there an update on MSR's movement? We'll go up in value with the 4% yield. Since your end could you give us a little nap shot on what's happened to MSR marks post quarter end? Yeah, we are seeing stronger bids or higher moths.

on predominantly, at least the GSE MSRs that we see in the market. So we actively track kind of all bids that we're aware of, that hit the market. And, you know, obviously, participate where we're interested. And we are through the month of February , seeing definitely higher mullets versus the fourth quarter, probably due to maybe more investors showing up, because the supply continues to be really robust. And so it's an interesting scenario where there's, you know, very strong amounts hitting the market. But, you know, slightly improved valuations on those. Great. Look, you have a great platform. I just, you know, market market ball till is sometimes difficult to model on that note. Just give me the number again on the improvement in every a billion of you, you add you see two and a half three bits of margin. Just give me those numbers again. Yeah, for subservicing additions, we said for every billion dollars of you could be added, it's between two and a half to three, three basis points of profitability. Well, and that's you, you, you, if that we put a no capital for for that. That's GSE subservicing. That's correct.

That's an incredible return. Last question, we'll wait for the K, but can you just give us the DTA, the Reserve Against the DTA at your end? I don't have that handy, that's actually going to be in the K, which is released later today, so that'll be accessible at that point. Gotcha, and it's still three, the timeframe is sort of three years to profitability, until you can start to release some of that. Is that sort of the timing with the the shop clock, if you will? It's unfortunately like everything to do in the world of taxes. It's not that cut and dry. There's not an incredible bright line, and so we have to continuously consult with our outside tax counsel and auditors. We actually think it's a sustained view of probably less than three years, but in excess of one year of sustained profitability on a gap basis, which allows you to drop the valuation on how it's recognized the NOL.

Great. No, just because there's a lot of value and potentially in that shareholders will give you credit for it and be nice to see that come on the balance sheet. At some point, no, I don't know. Appreciate taking the question. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Matt. Thank you. Our next question comes from Eric Hagen with BTIG. Hey, good morning, guys. The poll is going well. I've just got a couple here. I mean, how much liquidity in the funding lines do you have to buy MSRs for yourselves away from math? And maybe how you characterize the market for MSR financing, especially advanced funding right now.

And even the quality of financing that you guys can get with the leverage in the overall business right now And then maybe I just kind of a little will follow up about what is the difference in ROE when MSRs are financed through math versus finance on your own balance sheet Sure, thanks Eric. It's Sean. I'll take that Um, so you talked about what I view is two Very different financing facilities or two distinct facilities. So there's MSR financing and then servicing advanced facilities and we typically like a lot of our competitors structure those separately the exception being a jini-may book where you have to typically combine them due to the acknowledgement agreement that jini-may which forces you to use, you know, a common lender and therefore a common facility on the MSR side both in the jini-may and the GSE space Still pretty robust opportunities to finance MSRs So we have multiple lines. We have one line for our jinis and we have several lines for our GSEs

One or two lenders have moved in or out of the space, but predominantly speaking, we're still seeing broad-based interest. It's a fairly well-understood asset. It's fairly, I don't want to say predictable, but there's extensive modeling. So a lot of the banks that have mortgage deaths of their own have high confidence in understanding what GSE and Genie May MSRs do, and so that allows them to stay in that market. Similar on the servicing advances, that's actually even a little bit deeper between the regional and the large banks. There's some mega, some of the four mega banks don't actively participate in direct MSR financing, but almost all of them are pretty active in the servicing advanced space as well as other investment banks and mid to large size regional banks. So very active interest there. Terms have been, in the past, in terms of advanced rate and spread terms have been stable to improving over the last eight quarters. You'll typically see anywhere between 60 to 70% advance rates on the GSEs, and probably a five-point reduction for Genie May is they suffer a slightly lower, but still generous enough advanced rate. And the spread has been pretty stable as well.

And then you want to repeat your last question with respect to MAV and ROE. Yeah, the difference. Thanks. I'm just trying to do a piece of part of the difference in ROE between MSR's gain and finance and MAV versus on your own balance sheet. And maybe you can talk about the liquidity to buy MSR's through MAV versus on your own balance sheet. Sure. So MAV definitely generates a high ROE for us because we commit less equity. So we're a 15% owner of MAV. MAV, you know, separately, go to entity, we're a minority owner, and MAV has access to a committed 250 million of additional capital provided by both us and O3 at that 8515 split, 15 for us, 85 for O3. And, you know, we think that's more than adequate to support, you know, kind of MAV's near-term intentions. MAV financing is separate from ours, but we're very aware of their financing. And so that kind of informs some of my earlier comments in terms of their ability to generate returns and obtain financing. They focus just on the GSEs currently. They don't buy Ginny Maze or PLS. But, you know, you know, I would view them as a similar and still opportunistic buyer, but separate from Auckland, of course. Thank you guys very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

I would now like to turn the floor back over to Glen the Sima for closing comments. Thanks, Renon. I'd like to thank our shareholders and keep this partners for supporting our business. I'd also like to thank and recognize our board of directors and global business team for the hard work and commitment to our success. I look forward to updating everyone on our progress at our next quarter's earnings call. Thank you. This concludes today's audio conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you.

There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the floor back over to Glen the Sima for closing comments. Thanks, Renon. I'd like to thank our shareholders and keep this partners for supporting our business. I'd also like to thank and recognize our board of directors and global business team for the hard work and commitment to our success. I look forward to updating everyone on our progress at our next quarter's earnings call. Thank you. This concludes today's audio conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for participation and have a great day.

Q4 2022 Ocwen Financial Corp Earnings Call

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