Q2 2023 Cogeco Inc and Cogeco Communications Inc Earnings Call
Speaker 2: Good day and welcome to Cogeco Inc. and Cogeco Communications Inc. Q2 2023 earnings conference call.
Speaker 2: Today's conference is being recorded.
Speaker 2: At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Patríd Ouimé, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Cogeco Inc. and Cogeco Communications Inc. Please go ahead, Mr. Ouimé.
Patrice Ouimet: Good morning, everybody, and welcome to this Q2 conference call, which Philippe Jetté and I will take as usual. Before we begin this call, I'd like to remind listeners that the call is subject to forward-looking statements, which can be found in our press releases issued yesterday. I'll turn the call over to Philippe.
Speaker 3: Good morning everybody and welcome to this second quarter conference call which Philippe Jettet and I will take as usual. So before we begin this call I'd like to remind listeners that the call is subject to four looking statements which can be found in our press releases issued yesterday.
Philippe Jetté: Merci, Patrice. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Q2 results of fiscal year 2023. We are reporting consolidated results, which are in line with our expectations. While the industry continues to be impacted by increasing macroeconomic pressures and a more competitive environment, we remain focused on balancing subscriber growth with financial performance while remaining disciplined with our cost structure. We continue to execute successfully on our fiber-to-the-home network expansions program with the addition of 32,000 homes passed during the quarter, which brings us to more than 140,000 home passed over the last 18 months. This is a 5% increase to our network during the period. Our reliable high-speed network, innovative digital product offering, and local customer service have already enabled new internet subscriber additions in these areas, which position us well for the future.
Speaker 3: So I'll turn the call over to Siddharth. Good morning everyone and thank you for joining us for the second quarter results of fiscal year 2023.
Speaker 3: We are reporting consolidated results which are in line with our expectations.
Speaker 4: While the industry continues to be impacted by increasing macroeconomic pressures and a more competitive environment, we remain focused on balancing subscriber growth with financial performance while remaining disciplined with our cost structure.
Speaker 4: We continue to execute successfully on our fiber-to-the-home network expansions program, with the addition of 32,000 homes passed during the quarter.
Speaker 4: Which brings us to more than 140,000 home paths over the last 18 months.
Speaker 4: This is a 5% increase to our network during the period.
Speaker 4: Our reliable iSpeed Network, innovative digital product offering, and local customer service have already enabled new internet subscriber additions in these areas.
Philippe Jetté: For mobile, we are encouraged by the government's indication that it is looking to support increased competition in the wireless space. We remain focused on meeting regulatory requirements, which we expect shortly, leading to the negotiation of wholesale rates with incumbents. As a reminder, Cogeco owns such spectrum in 91% of its Canadian footprint, which is a requirement for MVNO access. We are also pleased with our March acquisition of oxio, a telecommunication operation serving about 48,000 residential customers in Quebec, Ontario, and Western Canada. With this great addition, we now have a second brand in Canada to serve younger and price-conscious customers with a fully digital customer service. Looking further into the future, we also intend to explore longer-term opportunities by allocating up to CAD 100 million of capital to new growth opportunities. These funds will be invested over a five-year period, with the objective of generating attractive long-term returns.
Speaker 4: which position us well for the future.
Speaker 4: For mobile, we are encouraged by the government's indication that it is looking to support increased competition in the wireless space.
Speaker 4: We remain focused on meeting regulatory requirements, which we expect shortly, leading to the negotiation of wholesale rates with incumbents.
Speaker 4: As a reminder, Cogeco owns such spectrum in 91% of its Canadian footprint, which is a requirement for MVNO access.
Speaker 4: We are also pleased with our March acquisition of OXIO, a telecommunication operation serving about 48,000 residential customers in Quebec, Ontario and Western Canada.
Speaker 4: With this great addition, we now have a second brand in Canada to serve younger and price-conscious customers with a fully digital customer service.
Speaker 4: Looking further into the future, we also intend to explore longer-term opportunities by allocating up to $100 million of capital to new growth opportunities.
Speaker 4: These funds will be invested over a five-year period with the objective of generating attractive long-term returns.
Philippe Jetté: The goal is to create new opportunities for growth in a fast-changing environment while building on our innovation, our operational experience, and minimizing investment risk due to the limited size of each investment. Additionally, like the government-subsidized fiber expansions that we are undertaking in Canada, we remain interested in participating in similar expansions under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment funding program in the United States. Each state will run its own process allocating funds by region, which we expect to begin later in the calendar year. In terms of recent notable ESG development, Cogeco has been ranked for the fourth consecutive year among the world's 100 most sustainable corporations, according to Corporate Knights. This ranking results from a rigorous assessment of over 6,000 companies around the world, generating more than $1 billion in revenue.
Speaker 4: The goal is to create
Speaker 4: new opportunities for growth in a fast changing environment while building on our innovation.
Speaker 4: operational experience, and minimizing investment risk due to the limited size of each investment.
Speaker 4: Additionally, like the government subsidized fiber expansions that we are undertaking in Canada,
Speaker 4: We remain interested in participating in similar extensions under the Broadband Equity Access and Deployment funding program in the United States.
Speaker 4: Each state will run its own process allocating funds by region, which we expect to begin later in the calendar year.
Speaker 4: In terms of recent notable ESG deployment development
Speaker 4: Cogeco has been ranked for the fourth consecutive year among the world's 100 most sustainable corporations, according to Corporate Nights.
Speaker 4: This ranking results from a rigorous assessment of over 6,000 companies around the world, generating more than US$1 billion in revenue.
Philippe Jetté: Cogeco's performance was particularly recognized for its board diversity, carbon productivity, and sustainable revenue and investment. I would also like to highlight that we recently published our annual ESG and sustainability report, as well as our climate action plan, which detail our environmental, social, and governance commitments, initiatives, and performance aimed at driving sustainable growth and business resilience. I will now review our operational results. Let's start with our US operations. As mentioned earlier, we continued our fiber network expansion where we added 17,000 homes passed this quarter or 68,000 homes passed over the last 18 months. At Breezeline, we continue to focus on growing the customer base, and as you see, we have made progress. Outside of Ohio, we grew our internet customer by 1,700, both from our current and newly served areas.
Speaker 4: Kojiko's performance was particularly recognized for its board diversity, carbon productivity, and sustainable revenue and investment.
Speaker 4: I would also like to highlight that we recently published our annual ESG and Sustainability Report.
Speaker 4: as well as our climate action plan which detail our environmental, social and governance commitments.
Speaker 4: Initiatives and performance aim at driving sustainable growth and business resilience.
Speaker 4: I will now review our operational results.
Speaker 4: Let's start with our US operations.
Speaker 4: As mentioned earlier, we continued our fibre network expansion where we added 17,000 homes passed this quarter, or 68,000 homes passed over the last 18 months.
Speaker 4: At Breezeline, we continue to focus on growing the customer base.
Speaker 4: And as you see, we have made progress. Outside of Ohio, we grew our internet customer by 1,700, both from our current and newly served areas. COVID-19 pandemic it'song away.
Philippe Jetté: The product mix has also improved, with a greater proportion of new connections taking faster internet speeds and therefore driving a higher average revenue per unit. In Ohio, internet net losses stood at 5,500, which we would obviously prefer to be a net gain, but is nevertheless an improvement over previous quarters. There is still more work on our plate to return to growth in our internet customer base in Ohio, and it will take more time to gain greater brand awareness in that market. We remain focused on our plan, where every step counts to set the foundation for future growth. Breezeline also continued to roll out its IPTV product in Ohio to all its existing customers, and densifying and interconnecting its network fully to Breezeline score. Moving to the Canadian operations.
Speaker 4: The product mix has also improved with a greater proportion of new connections taking faster Internet speeds and therefore driving a higher average revenue per unit.
Speaker 4: in Ohio.
Speaker 4: Net glasses stood at 5500.
Speaker 4: which we would obviously prefer to be a net gain, but is nevertheless an improvement over previous quarters.
Speaker 4: There is still more work on our plate to return to Rotin, our Internet customer base in Ohio.
Speaker 4: and it will take more time to gain greater brand awareness in that market.
Speaker 4: but we remain focused on our plans where every step counts to set the foundation for future growth.
Speaker 4: Breezeline also continued to roll out its IPTV product in Ohio to all its existing customers, identifying and interconnecting its network fully to Breezeline's core.
Speaker 4: also continued to roll out its IPTV product in Ohio to all its existing customers, and densifying and interconnecting its network fully to Breezeline Score. Moving to the Canadian operations.
Philippe Jetté: We accelerated our construction efforts to connect more homes in unserved and underserved communities in both provinces, where we added about 15,000 homes passed during the quarter and 73,000 homes passed over the last 18 months. As a reminder, these fiber-to-the-home expansion projects are mostly done in partnership with governments and deployed in areas which do not currently have high-speed internet providers. We are pleased with the results that we are seeing from these expansion projects, which have contributed to growth in customer additions. Overall, our Canadian team did an excellent job executing on effective sales and marketing strategies, which led our internet customer base to grow this quarter by 7,800 across our traditional markets and these newly served areas. The Canadian business has also improved its ARPU with an improved customer product mix.
Speaker 4: We accelerated our construction efforts to connect more homes in unserved and underserved communities in both provinces, where we added about 15,000 homes passed during the quarter and 73,000 homes passed during the quarter and 73,000 homes passed during the quarter.
Speaker 4: homes passed over the last 18 months.
Speaker 4: As a reminder, these fiber-to-the-home expansion projects are mostly done in partnership with governments and deployed in areas which do not currently have high-speed Internet providers.
Speaker 4: We are pleased with the results.
Speaker 4: that we are seeing from these expansion projects, which have contributed to growth in customer editions.
Speaker 4: Overall, our Canadian team did an excellent job executing on effective sales and marketing strategies.
Speaker 4: which led our internet customer base to grow this quarter by 7,800 across our traditional markets and these newly served areas.
Speaker 4: which led our internet customer base to grow this quarter by 7,800 across our traditional markets and these newly served areas. The Canadian business has also improved its ARPU.
Philippe Jetté: For Cogeco Média, our stations remain at the top of the ratings, confirming once again our leadership position, even if we are operating in soft advertising markets. In the meantime, we continue to expand our multi-platform audio content options with more digital ad tech solutions. Let me turn the call over to Patrice, who will provide more details on our financial performance for the quarter.
Speaker 4: with an improved customer product mix.
Speaker 4: For Cogico Media, our stations remained at the top of the ratings.
Speaker 4: confirming once again our leadership position, even if we are operating in soft advertising markets.
Speaker 4: In the meantime, we continue to expand our multi-platform audio content options with more digital ad tech solutions.
Speaker 5: Now let us...
Speaker 4: Let me turn the call over to Patrice, who will provide more details on our financial performance for the quarter.
Patrice Ouimet: Thank you, Philippe. Before going into the details of our Q2 financial performance, and unless otherwise indicated, I'd like to highlight that my comments will be provided on a constant currency basis. In Canada, at Cogeco Connexion, the revenue was up by 1.7%, resulting mainly from the higher internet service customer base and the higher revenue per customer. EBITDA was up by 3.1% due to the revenue increase and stable operating expenses. In the US, Breezeline's revenue was down 5.2%, mainly driven by customer losses in Ohio over the past year, and an overall decline in video and phone customers, partially offset by high-speed internet service additions outside Ohio over the past year, a higher revenue per customer, and a better product mix.
Speaker 3: Thank you for that. So before going into the details of our Q2 financial performance, unless otherwise indicated, I'd like to highlight that my comments will be provided on a constant currency basis.
Speaker 3: So in Canada, at Cogical Connections, the revenue was up by 1.7%, resulting mainly from the higher internet service customer base and higher revenue per customer.
Speaker 3: EBITDA was up by 3.1% due to the revenue increase and stable operating expenses.
Speaker 3: In the US, Breezeline's revenue was down 5.2%, mainly driven by customer losses in Ohio over the past year, and an overall decline in video and phone customers. Partially offset by high speed internet service additions outside Ohio over the past year.
Patrice Ouimet: EBITDA decreased by 7.8%, reflecting lower revenue and some margin contraction related to the unusually low spending in marketing and advertising and less staff last year in Ohio, while the assets were still operating under the previous owner's brand. Turning to Cogeco Communications, at the consolidated level, revenue was down by 1.8%, which led to a decline in adjusted EBITDA of 1.9%, mainly due to Breezeline's performance that I just explained. Capital intensity was 21.2% due to increased activity related to network expansions in Canada. Excluding these projects, capital intensity would have been 15.5% in the quarter. Free cash flow decreased by 21.5%, reflecting these additional investments in network expansions, higher interest rates, and a decline in EBITDA. Excluding network expansion projects, free cash flow would have decreased by 15.3%.
Speaker 3: a higher revenue per customer, and a better product mix.
Speaker 3: EBITDA decreased by 7.8% reflecting lower revenue and some margin contraction related to the unusually low spending in marketing and advertising and less staff last year in Ohio while the assets were still operating under the previous owner's brand.
Speaker 3: Turning to Cogical Communications, at the consolidated level, revenue was down by 1.8%, which led to a decline in adjusted EBITDA of 1.9%, mainly due to Breedline's performance that I just explained. Global intensity was 21.2% due to increased activity related to the pandemic.
Speaker 3: rates and a decline in EBITDA.
Speaker 3: excluding network expansion projects, free cash flow would have decreased by 15.3%.
Patrice Ouimet: During the quarter, we continued to be active in our share buyback program at a faster pace than in previous quarters based on the low stock price, with the purchase of 845,000 shares for CAD 64 million. A dividend of CAD 0.776 per share was declared for the quarter, which is an increase of 10% over the prior year. We anticipate dividends to represent a payout of about 24% of our free cash flows this year, including network expansions. As of the end of the quarter, our net debt to EBITDA ratio was 3.4 times, which includes the impact of the appreciation of the US dollars against the Canadian dollar. Our balance sheet remains strong, with available liquidity of nearly CAD 1.2 billion at the end of the quarter. As it relates to Cogeco Inc., revenue declined by 1.6% and EBITDA by 1.8% as a result of Cogeco Communications' performance.
Speaker 3: During the quarter, we continued to be active in our share buyback program at a faster pace than in previous quarters based on the low stock price with a purchase of 845,000 shares for $64 million.
Speaker 3: A dividend of $0.77.6 per share was declared for the quarter, which is an increase of 10% over the prior year.
Speaker 3: We anticipate dividends to represent a payout of about 24% of our free cash flows this year, including network extensions.
Speaker 3: As of the end of the quarter, our net debt to EBITDA ratio was 3.4 times, which includes the impact of the appreciation of the US dollars against the Canadian dollar.
Speaker 3: Our balance sheet remains strong with available liquidity of nearly $1.2 billion at the end of the quarter.
Speaker 3: As it relates to Cogeco Inc., revenue declined by 1.6% and EBITDA by 1.8% as a result of Cogeco Inc.'s performance.
Patrice Ouimet: Radio operations revenue increased by 5.3% versus last year, while the advertising, sorry, market remained soft. As for buybacks, Cogeco acquired 118,000 shares during the quarter, and a dividend of CAD 0.731 per share was declared for the quarter, which is an increase of 17% versus the prior year. Now in terms of our outlook, we are confirming our fiscal 2023 financial guidelines as issued in January for both corporations. Although we continue to experience revenue pressure in the US, we have implemented several cost mitigation measures to partially offset this. At Cogeco Connexion, we expect a low to mid-single-digit growth in revenue for the full year, driven by organic growth from our traditional and newly built areas, and contribution from the recent acquisition of oxio.
Speaker 3: Radio operations revenue increased by 5.3% versus last year, while the market remained soft.
Speaker 3: As for buybacks, Cogeco acquired 118,000 shares during the quarter and a dividend of 73.1 cents per share was declared for the quarter, which is an increase of 17% versus the prior year.
Speaker 3: Now in terms of our outlook, we are confirming our fiscal 23 financial guidelines as issued in January for both corporations.
Speaker 3: Although we continue to experience revenue pressure in the U.S., we have implemented several cost mitigation measures to partially offset this.
Speaker 3: At Kojiko Connection, we expect a low to mid single digit growth in revenue for the full year driven by organic growth from our traditional and newly built areas and contribution from the recent acquisition of OXIO.
Patrice Ouimet: For EBITDA, we expect low single-digit growth, which reflects overall higher OpEx to drive customer growth, and last year was also impacted by favorable year-end adjustments. In terms of quarterly cadence, we expect sequential growth in revenue in Q3 with year-over-year % increases modestly higher than in Q2. As it relates to EBITDA, we expect margin contraction due to overall higher OpEx to drive customer growth, including with our oxio brand, which is in a high growth phase. We expect a small year-over-year decline in EBITDA in Q3, which was already built in our guidance. At Breezeline, we expect, in constant currency, a low single-digit decline in revenue for the full year, while EBITDA is expected to be slightly negative.
Speaker 3: For AVIDA, we expect low single-digit growth, which reflects overall higher optics to drive customer growth, and last year was also impacted by favorable year-end adjustments.
Speaker 3: In terms of quarterly cadence, we expect sequential growth in revenue in Q3, with year-over-year percentage increases modestly higher than in Q2.
Speaker 3: As it relates to EBITDA, we expect margin contraction due to overall higher OPEX to drive customer growth, including with our OXO brand which is in a high growth phase.
Speaker 3: Therefore, we expect a small year-over-year decline in Ebidigm Q3, which was already built in our guidance.
Speaker 3: At Breezeline, we expect in constant currency a low single-digit decline in revenue for the full year, while EBITDA is expected to be slightly negative.
Patrice Ouimet: In Q3, we expect a similar mid-single-digit decline in revenue as we saw in Q2 due to customer losses in Ohio over the past year, partly offset by growth in Internet customers elsewhere and a better product mix as well. As for EBITDA, we expect a low to mid-single digit decline in Q3 from lower revenue, partly offset by lower OpEx. Below EBITDA, I'd like to note that acquisition, integration, restructuring, and other costs are expected to be broadly similar to H2 as H1. In terms of CapEx, we've been pleased with the results of our network expansion so far, and our guidance accounts for anticipated increases in H2 of the year, which is typically a busier time to build in the summer months.
Speaker 3: In Q3, we expect a similar mid-single digit decline in revenue as we saw in Q2 due to customer losses in Ohio over the past year, partly offset by growth in Internet customers elsewhere and a better product mix as well.
Speaker 3: As for EBITDA, we expect a low to mid single-digit decline in Q3 from lower revenue, partly offset by lower optics.
Speaker 3: Below EBITDA, I'd like to note that acquisition, integration, restructuring and other costs are expected to be broadly similar to the second half as the first half.
Speaker 3: In terms of CapEx, we've been pleased with the results of our network expansion so far, and our guidance accounts for anticipated increases in the back half of the year, which is typically a busier time to build in the summer months.
Patrice Ouimet: As noted in the past, our guidance range already reflects investments related to strategic growth initiatives, including preparing for an eventual launch of mobile services. While free cash flow is therefore anticipated to be lower in H2, it will represent still a strong growth on a year-over-year basis, most notably in Q4. Now Philippe and I will be happy to take your questions.
Speaker 3: And, as noted in the past, our guidance range already reflects investments related to strategic growth initiatives, including preparing for an eventual launch of mobile services.
Speaker 3: While free cash flow is therefore anticipated to be lower in the second half of the year, it will represent still a strong growth on a year-over-year basis, most notably in Q4. And now, Philippe and I will be happy to take your questions. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press star followed by the one on your touch-tone phone. You will hear a three-tone prompt acknowledging your request. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press the star followed by the two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. One moment, please, for your first question. The first question comes from Aravinda Galappatthige from Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead.
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press star followed by the one on your touch tone phone. You will hear a three tone prompt acknowledging your request.
Speaker 2: Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press the star followed by the two.
Speaker 2: If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys.
Speaker 2: If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. One moment please for your first question.
Speaker 2: Our first question comes from Aravinda Galapavich from Candid Court Genuity. Please go ahead.
Aravinda Galappatthige: Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I'll just start. In Canada, a pretty good broadband net adds number, obviously, that you've reported. It's good to see. Can you just maybe help us understand how that breaks down between sort of your traditional footprint and your network expansions? I guess connected to that, how you see the sustainability of that strength that we saw in Q2?
Speaker 6: Good morning, thanks for taking my questions. I'll just start in Canada. A pretty good broadband net ads number, obviously, that you've reported. It's good to see. Can you just maybe help us understand how that breaks down between.
Speaker 6: of your traditional footprint.
Speaker 6: and your network expansions and then I guess connected to that how you see sort of the sustainability of that strength that we saw in Q2.
Patrice Ouimet: Sure. It's actually a mix of both. We are now finally reaping the benefits of the network expansions, especially the ones in Québec, which are not fully done yet, but we're advanced, and we have delivered many doors already. Ontario will come a bit later as we're in the building mode right now. We do expect as we deliver doors in these network expansion areas to continue to see the positive effect for quite a long time, actually. As for the other areas, we do adjust our marketing and our go-to-market approach on a regular basis as the market evolves. It did contribute to the positive numbers you saw in Q2.
Speaker 3: Sure, so it's actually a mix of both. We are now finally reaping the benefits of the network extensions, especially the ones in Quebec, which are not fully done yet, but we're advanced and we have delivered many doors already.
Speaker 3: Ontario will come a bit later as we're in the building mode right now. So we do expect as we deliver doors in these network expansion areas to continue to see the positive effect for quite a long time actually. As for the other areas, we do adjust our marketing and our go-to-market approach on a regular basis as the market evolves.
Speaker 3: So it did contribute to the positive numbers you saw in Q2. Obviously, PSUs in our traditional sectors or Internet additions in our traditional sectors can be volatile from one quarter to another, but our goal is always to produce a positive number as we've been doing in the past.
Patrice Ouimet: Obviously, PSUs in our traditional sectors or internet additions in our traditional sectors can be volatile from one quarter to another, but our goal is always to produce a positive number as we've been doing in the past.
Aravinda Galappatthige: Okay. Thanks for that. Then, I was wondering if you can expand a little bit on how things are going in the US with respect to Ohio, is it stabilizing there? I know you talked about it last quarter, about the rollout of your IPTV product there. How are you seeing retention levels and improvements in Ohio? That would be helpful. Then, maybe specifically for Patrice, when I look at the guidance that you've indicated for the US, I think prior quarter, you mentioned low single-digit growth there. We're obviously looking for low single-digit declines there. Maybe just talk to us, is it just the sub losses or is there anything on the pricing side, competitive side that's adding to that variance?
Speaker 6: Okay, thanks for that. And then I was wondering if you can expand a little bit on how things are going in the US, A, with respect to Ohio, the stabilizing there and sort of, I know you talked about in the last quarter about sort of the rollout of your new IPTV product there. So how are you seeing retention levels and...
Speaker 6: improvements in Ohio that would be helpful. Maybe specifically for Patrice, when I look at the guidance that you've indicated for the U.S., I think prior quarter you mentioned low single digit growth there. We're probably looking for low single digit growth.
Speaker 6: declines there. Maybe just talk to us. Is it just the sub losses or is there anything on the pricing side, competitive side that's sort of adding to sort of that barrier?
Patrice Ouimet: Great. Okay. I'll take your questions on this. In Ohio, obviously, we did make the changeover from WOW to our brand a few quarters ago. You can see that we still lost some customers during the quarter, but it was quite an improvement versus the previous quarter and the one before that as well. As we look further out in Q3 and Q4, we do expect to see some losses still as we're continuing to become known in the market because we have ramped up our marketing activities as we are a new name in the area. We do expect this, and we'll see. The idea is to reduce these numbers from what we've seen in Q2. We did lose 5,500 customers in Ohio in Q2, and we are planning to see lower numbers in Q3 and Q4.
Speaker 3: Great. Okay, so I'll take your questions on this. So in Ohio, obviously, we did make the changeover from WOW to our brand a few quarters ago. And you can see that we're still, we still lost some customers.
Speaker 3: Become known in the market because we have ramped up our marketing activities As we have we are a new name in the in the area and we So we do expect this and we'll see the idea is to to reduce these numbers from what we saw what we've seen in Q2
Speaker 3: We did lose 5500 customers in Ohio in Q2 and we are planning to see lower numbers in Q3 and Q4.
Patrice Ouimet: In terms of the change in color, as part of our guidance for the US, it is primarily due to the losses we have seen in Ohio. We are seeing some ARPU pressure, obviously in Ohio and in other places as well, as it is more competitive than it used to be, given the fixed wireless increase in intensity in competition across the US in general, not as much as we have said in the past. For us, it is more in Ohio than elsewhere, but it has an indirect impact in ARPU. Going forward for the balance of the year, I would say in the US, it is a mix of PSUs that are a bit softer than what we had planned initially and a bit of pressure on ARPU as well.
Speaker 3: In terms of the change in color, as part of our guidance for the U.S., it's primarily due to the losses we've seen in Ohio. We are seeing some article pressure.
Speaker 3: obviously in Ohio, in other places as well, as it is more competitive than it used to be, given the fixed wireless increase in intensity in competition. Across the US in general, not as much as we've said in the past, for us it's more in Ohio than elsewhere, but it has an indirect impact in our pool.
Speaker 3: So going forward for the balance of the year, I would say in the U.S. it's a mix of PSUs that are a bit softer than what we had planned initially and a bit of pressure on our pool as well.
Aravinda Galappatthige: Thanks, Patrice. Last question from me, maybe Philippe can just sort of expand on the change in leadership at the CRTC and what seems to us like sort of a renewed push to make sure that what's on paper in terms of MVNO is actually implemented. Can you just give us a sense of what you think the next steps would be? What are you waiting for? What do you have to do? How can we think about timelines here?
Speaker 6: Thanks, which is an end of question for me.
Speaker 6: you know through the change in leadership that you see and What seems to us like serving a renewed? Push to make sure that what's on paper in terms of MPNO is actually implemented. Can you just give us a sense of? What you think sort of the next steps would be I mean?
Philippe Jetté: Yes, Aravinda, it was just a bit difficult to understand your question. I think you're asking about our next step for MVNO in Canada. Is that it?
Speaker 4: What are you waiting for? What do you have to do? How can you think about timelines here? Yes Aravinda, it was just a bit difficult to understand your question But I think you're asking about our next step for MVNO in Canada. Is that it?
Speaker 4: How can we think about timelines here? Yes Aravind, it was just a bit difficult to understand your question, but I think you're asking about our next step for MVNO in Canada Is that it? Yes, that's correct.
Aravinda Galappatthige: Yes, that's correct.
Philippe Jetté: Okay. As I said earlier, we do have to qualify for the MVNO framework in Canada. With spectrum, we actually own 91% of spectrum in our operating footprint. The T's and C's from the regulator will actually be approved pretty soon. We're all awaiting the green light from this federal program, it's coming from the CRTC. We would be negotiating with the three MNOs, the wholesale rates. Therefore, after the subsequent steps, you'll find us in the market. I said on the previous call that at the end of this fiscal, we would update and provide more on our commercial plans. Right now, it's more negotiating good rates with the existing MNOs in our footprint.
Speaker 4: As I said earlier, we do have to qualify for the MVNO framework in Canada.
Speaker 4: With Spectrum, we actually own 91% of Spectrum in our operating footprint.
Speaker 4: The Ts and Cs from the regulator will actually be approved pretty soon. We're all awaiting the green light from this federal program, so it's coming from the CRTC. We would be...
Speaker 4: in negotiating with the three MNOs the all-sale rates.
Speaker 4: and therefore after the subsequent steps you'll find us in the market. So I said on the previous call that
Speaker 4: At the end of this fiscal, we would update and provide more on our commercial plans, but right now it's more negotiating good rates with the existing M&Os in our footprint.
Aravinda Galappatthige: Okay, great. Thank you. I'll pass the line.
Speaker 6: Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from Drew McReynolds of RBC. Please go ahead.
Speaker 2: Thank you. The next question comes from Drew McReynolds of RBC. Please go ahead. How many shots do you have left?
Drew McReynolds: Yeah, thanks very much. Good morning. Just a follow-up to Aravinda's wireless question. Just in the wake of the Rogers, Shaw, Quebecor transaction approval, just wondering, Philippe, if that at all influences your roadmap here in wireless. From a government support perspective, obviously, the language coming out of ISED and indirectly the CRTC is to certainly support regional operators like yourself. Do you sense that this is going to expedite the process here towards launch? Particularly once you get into negotiations with the incumbents, do you think we're going to see quicker and more constructive outcomes here from those negotiations? Second question, just for you, Patrice, and my apologies if it's been disclosed, but just on oxio for modeling purposes, just curious if you're able to give us either the multiple paid or some other financial metrics around that one. Thank you.
Speaker 7: Thanks very much and good morning. Just a follow up to Erivin's wireless question. Just in the wake of the Roger Shaw Quebec or transaction approval just.
Speaker 7: I'm wondering, Philip, if that at all kind of influences your roadmap here in wireless and from a...
Speaker 7: government support perspective. Obviously the language coming out of ISED and indirectly to CRTC is to certainly support.
Speaker 7: operators, regional operators like yourself, do you sense that this is going to expedite you know the process here towards launch and particularly once you get into negotiations with the incumbents do you think we're going to kind of see quicker and more kind of constructive outcomes here from those negotiations.
Philippe Jetté: Thank you, Drew. For the first part of your questions, it certainly provides more predictability throughout the industry now that this transaction is over, and we know what to expect of it. The next steps will actually be better for everyone throughout the industry. The regulator has clearly supported more competition in wireless, so I think we will see the next step unfolding with more predictability. The three players engaged in that very large transaction are focusing on the West. We have heard some of their plans, more to come. I think now every player is at a better place with the conclusion of the transaction and getting ready for the next steps, negotiating partnerships and rates.
Speaker 4: Thank you. Thank you, Drew. So, for the first part of your questions, it certainly provides more predictability throughout the industry now that this transaction is over.
Speaker 4: We know what to expect of it. The next steps will actually be better for everyone throughout the industry. The regulator has clearly supported more competition in wireless. So I think we will see.
Speaker 4: the next step on folding with more predictability. The three players engaged in that very large transactions are focusing on the West, we...
Speaker 4: We have heard some of their plans, more to come, but I think now every player is at a better place understanding.
Speaker 4: the conclusion of the transaction and getting ready for the next steps, negotiating partnerships and rates.
Patrice Ouimet: On oxio, at a high level, it should add about 1% to our revenues at Cogeco Connexion during the year, but we will have owned it for six months, basically during our fiscal year. On the full year, it's a bit more than 2%. On the EBITDA front, it's not a meaningful number because one thing that's important with oxio is it's actually growing really fast. With these types of businesses, which generate slightly lower ARPUs than in our traditional business. Again, it's a different business model that's digital only, less products as well. Typically, when you're in a high growth mode, you need to invest in acquisition costs. That's where we are. That's why the EBITDA is not a meaningful number.
Speaker 3: On OXEO, at the high level it should add about 1% to our revenues at Cogico Connection during the year, but we will have owned it for 6 months basically during our fiscal year.
Speaker 3: On the full year, it's a bit more than 2%. On the EBITDA front, it's not a meaningful number because one thing that's important with OXEO is it's actually growing really fast.
Speaker 3: And with these types of businesses, which generate slightly lower RPUs than are in our traditional business, again it's a different business model that's digital only, less products as well. Typically when you're in a high growth mode you need to invest in acquisition costs, so that's where we are. So that's why the idea...
Patrice Ouimet: That being said, at one point, we hope it to keep growing for a long time, but at one point, when it reaches steady state normally, then that's where you see more EBITDA contribution.
Drew McReynolds: Okay, got it. Thank you very much.
Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from Maher Yaghi of Scotiabank. Please go ahead.
Speaker 2: Thank you. The next question comes from
Maher Yaghi: Yes. Thank you for taking my questions. Bonjour, tout le monde. Julie, I just thought I wanted to start maybe with your guidance for the US business. When I look at the H1 of the year on EBITDA constant currency, you're around -5.5%, -5.6%. In your prepared remarks, you mentioned that for the year, you expect it to be declining in the small single digit. That is implying quite a bit of a turnaround in the H2. I'm trying to understand what will drive the growth, in the H2 to end up with a small decrease for the whole year. When I look at your margins for the US in the H2 of 2022, they were already down to the levels that you are running at right now.
Speaker 6: Mayor Yaggi of Scotiabank, please go ahead. Yes, thank you for taking my questions. Bonjour, tout le monde. Julie, I just wanted to start maybe with your guidance for the US business. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 3: When I look at the first half of the year on EBITDA, constant currency, you're around minus 5.5%, minus 5.6%. In your prepared remarks, you mentioned that for the year, you expect it to be...
Speaker 6: declining in the small single digit. So that is implying quite a bit of a turnaround in the second half. So I'm trying to understand what will drive the growth in the second half to end up with a small decrease.
Speaker 6: declining in the small single digit. So that is implying quite a bit of a turnaround in the second half. So I'm trying to understand what will drive the growth in the second half to end up with a small decrease for the whole year. Cause when I look at your margins.
Speaker 6: for the US in the second half of 2022.
Maher Yaghi: Are we to expect margins to improve in the US in H2 of this year? If so, under what reason?
Speaker 6: they were already down to the levels that you are running at right now. So are we to expect margins to improve in the US in the second half of this year? And if so, under what reason?
Patrice Ouimet: Yes. We are expecting a margin improvement in H2. One of the reasons is that, as I said in the prepared remarks, we've looked also at our cost structures and identified additional cost savings, given the pressure on revenue in the US. That's one reason. There's also, for example, in Ohio, we have not put price increases in this year. There will likely be some later on during the year, which will benefit H2. That's another reason. Yes. We do expect to see a stronger Q4, and a Q3 that would be a bit better, as I said, than Q2, basically.
Speaker 3: Yes, so we are expecting a margin improvement in the back half of the year. One of the reasons is that we've, as I said in the preferred remarks, we've looked at our cost structures and identified additional cost savings given the pressure on revenue in the U.S.
Speaker 3: That's one reason. There's also, for example, in Ohio we have not put price increases in this year, so there will likely be some later on during the year, which will benefit the back half of the year. So that's another reason. So we do expect to see a stronger Q4.
Speaker 3: and the Q3 that would be a bit better as I said than Q2 basically.
Maher Yaghi: Okay. The price increase in Ohio, you're doing it in the midst of price pressure that you're seeing from other participants in the marketplace. Are you worried that this could increase the churn, and we could see a re-acceleration of subscriber losses in that part of your business? Just to go back on maybe one comment you made. You mentioned the small improvements that you expect to steadily see in Ohio. If we look at the overall US business, are we to expect or should we be on the lookout for broadband net adds to turn positive sometime this year, on a net basis overall?
Speaker 6: Okay, and the price increase in Ohio, you're doing it in the midst of price pressure that you're seeing from other participants in the marketplace. Are you worried that this could increase the churn and we could see a reacceleration of subscriber losses in that part of your business?
Speaker 6: And just to go back on maybe one comment you made, you mentioned the small improvements that you expect to steadily see in Ohio, but if we look at the overall US business, are we to expect or should we be on the lookout for broadband net ads to turn positive sometime this year?
Philippe Jetté: On the price increase, first, let's remember that we have not, in the Ohio market, increased our rates still, and we are trailing the others in terms of rate increase. We're not expecting this to become another major factor of churn. The rate of the increase is actually lower than the inflation rates that we can see and read every day in the US. We very diligently work our cost structure through OpEx reduction to have a just right increase for that market.
in terms of rate increase. We're not expecting this to become another major factor of churn and the rate of the increase is actually lower than the inflation rates that we can...
see and read every day in the US. So we very diligently work our cost structure through OpEx reduction to...
Patrice Ouimet: Yeah. Obviously, we'll be able to talk more about pricing strategy later on as we go on, because we generally don't talk too much about it before we make our decisions for competitive reasons. For the PSUs or, sorry, the internet additions in the US. As you saw this quarter, we did have a positive number except for Ohio. That's why with Ohio was a negative number. To your question, we do expect in Q3 to still be negative, net of Ohio, because the additions elsewhere will probably be slightly lower than what we'll do in Ohio. Again, it's still early in the quarter, so we'll have to see where we end up. For Q4, the idea is, obviously we're aiming to be neutral, but it's a bit early to talk about it.
to have a just right increase for that market.
Obviously we'll be able to talk more about pricing strategy later on as we go on because we generally don't talk too much about it before we make our decisions for competitive reasons
And then for the Internet additions in the US, so as you saw this quarter we did have a positive number except for Ohio, so that's why with Ohio it was a negative number. To your question... Yes?
We do expect in Q3 to still be negative net of Ohio because the additions elsewhere will probably be slightly lower than what we'll do in Ohio. Again, it's still early in the quarter so we'll have to see where we end up.
And for Q4, the idea is obviously we're aiming to be neutral, but it's a bit early to talk about it.
Maher Yaghi: Okay. My last question is on the guidance again. The 1% contribution from oxio, is that implied already in your guidance, or we should be adding it on top of your guidance that you provided for the year? You made that transaction after you provided your initial guidance. I'm trying to figure out if you had already included it in your guidance or not.
Okay, and my last question is on the guidance again.
The 1% contribution from OXEO, is that implied already in your guidance or we should be adding it on top of?
your guidance that you provided for the year. Because you made that transaction after you provided your initial guidance. So I'm trying to figure out if you had already included it in your guidance or not.
Patrice Ouimet: Yeah, it is in the guidance. We did see a bit more pressure in the US in terms of revenue, since last quarter for the reasons I mentioned. A bit in Ohio, a bit of ARPU as well. OXIO is included in our guidance. Yeah.
Yeah, it is in the guidance. We did see a bit more pressure in the US in terms of revenue since last quarter for the reasons I mentioned. So a bit in Ohio, a bit of ARPU as well. And OXEO is included in our guidance.
Maher Yaghi: Okay. It makes up for the weakness that you felt during the last couple of quarters to get into your guidance. Sorry, one last question on CapEx for wireless. Does the CAD 100 million over 5 years include wireless expansion, or it's CapEx for cable? You mentioned the CAD 100 million in your prepared remarks. Is that pure cable or?
Yeah. Okay, so it makes up for the weakness that you felt during the quarter, during the last couple of quarters to pad your, to get into your guidance. Sorry, one last question on CapEx for wireless. Does the 100 million over five years include...
wireless expansion or it's capex for cable? You mentioned the 100 million in your prepared remarks. Is that pure cable or it's some allocation for wireless as well?
Patrice Ouimet: It's some allocation for wireless as well.
Philippe Jetté: Well, first on wireless, we are working on the capital-light model. Again, this year in our guidance, everything is included, even mobile. There won't be additional CapEx required for mobile in here. We will talk about the future when time comes, but we are working on a capital-efficient, a capital-light model. Now, when it comes to the fund that we're setting aside, it's not targeted to wireline, coax, fiber, mobile. The idea here is simply to identify growth opportunities that are small, but could pay back over the longer term. These dollars will actually have a long-term return model and are small investments.
Well first on wireless we are working on the capital light model and again this year in our guidance everything is included even in even mobile so there won't be additional capex required for mobile in-ear. We will talk about the future when time comes but we are working on a capital efficient capital light model.
but could.
pay back over the longer term. These dollars will actually have a long-term return model under small investments.
Patrice Ouimet: Yeah. Maher, we don't necessarily have a target in mind at this point, so it will just come in the future. Assuming we do make some small investments, they would be accounted for as investments, not CapEx.
We don't necessarily have a target in mind at this point, so it will just come in the future, but assuming we do make some small investments, they would be accounted for as investments, not CATX.
Maher Yaghi: Okay. Thank you very much.
Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from Jérome Dubreuil of Desjardins. Please go ahead.
Okay, okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. The next question comes from
Jérome Dubreuil: Yes. Bonjour tout le monde. Thanks for taking my questions. First one I have is on the BEAD program in the US. You mentioned on the call that you expect this to start a bit later this year. Are we talking about the process starting or actual dollars being allocated?
Jerome Dubérel of Desjardins, please go ahead. Yes, bonjour, thanks for taking my questions. The first one I have is on the BEAT program in the US. You mentioned on the call that you expect this to start a bit later this year.
Are we talking about the process starting or actual dollars being allocated? It's the process starting. It's a two-level process in the United States. So it has to be defined at the federal level through the NTIA and then assigned to each state.
Philippe Jetté: It's the process starting. It's a 2-level process in the United States. It has to be defined at the federal level through the NTIA and then assigned to each state. Each state will actually define the local rules to funnel the money available in the market. Right now, the US is still at the stage where they are optimizing maps, like really terrain maps, and identify how many households are included in every areas.
and each state will actually define the local rules to funnel the money available in the market.
Right now the US is still at the stage where they are optimizing maps, like terrain maps, and identify how many households are included in every area.
Patrice Ouimet: Yeah. Jérome, typically, there's a delay between winning some of these, because these are subsidized builds. Between the time you win and we'll see how we do and our interest level depending on the opportunities there, because we still don't have all the details. Once you do win an area, you do need to do some work for design. You need to make sure you have access to poles. There's quite a bit of a delay before you start actually spending real money on these programs.
And Geron, typically there's a delay between winning some of these, because these are subsidized bills, between the time you win and we'll see how we do and our interest level depending on the opportunities there, because we still don't have all the details. But once you do win an area, you do need to do some work for the
Jérome Dubreuil: Yeah. Okay. That's clear. Thanks. Another one I have. You talked about a five-year period investment in terms of new network. Does that include the BEAD program, and do you expect some additional government participation that we may not have factored in so far?
investments in terms of new networks. Does that include the BEE program or and do you expect some some additional government participation that we may not have factored in so far?
Philippe Jetté: No, the BEAD program will actually be a program that would stand on its own part of our major initiatives. Again, the fund here is really to focus on the long term. We would like to have three cylinders: a short-term, a mid-term, and a long-term funnel of activities or opportunities to generate growth. We're actually initiating a cylinder for the long term. Small things that could have a payoff later in time.
Now the BEAP program will actually be a program that will that was sent on its own part of our major initiatives. Again the fun here is really to focus on the long term. So we would like to
to have three cylinders, a short-term, a mid-term and a long-term funnel of activities or opportunities to generate growth. We're actually initiating a cylinder for the long-term. Small things that could have a payoff later in time.
Jérome Dubreuil: Okay, thanks. Last one on wireless. You provided good color on the timeline here, but correct me if I'm wrong, but you also sort of control the timeline of your eligibility, right? Is it fast for you to become eligible and maybe have your home mobile network, or you're just not even sure this is still a requirement from the government?
Okay, thanks. And then last one on wireless. You provided good color on the timeline here, but correct me if I'm wrong, but you also sort of control the timeline of your eligibility, right? Is it You
Is it fast for you to become eligible and maybe have your home mobile network? Or you're just not even sure this is still a requirement from the government? We know it is a requirement. We have clarified that with
Philippe Jetté: We know it is a requirement. We have clarified that with both the CRTC and ISED it does not need to be very big in scope. We understand exactly what it needs to be. As I said, it will come soon enough to qualify and have us negotiate with the MNOs. The key for us is really to find those wholesale rates as quick as possible. Then we can see what other plans will be made of after that.
about the CRTC and I said it does not need to be very big in scope. We understand exactly what it needs to be and as I said it will come soon enough to qualify and have us negotiate with the MNOs. The key for us is really to have a lot of work to do.
find those rates, those wholesale rates as quick as possible and then we can...
Jérome Dubreuil: That's helpful. Merci beaucoup.
see what other plans will be made up after that. That's all for me, Mr. Buechel. Thank you. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, if you do have a question, please press star one at this time. The next question comes from Matthew Griffiths of
Operator: Thank you. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, if you do have a question, please press star one at this time. The next question comes from Matthew Griffiths of Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Matthew Griffiths: Well, hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Just one on your comments about going forward in the Canadian footprint. You mentioned to expect some higher CapEx to drive growth in the back half of the year. I was just wondering, is that related to the new territories that you're opening up, or is that mostly related to increased competition that we're seeing in the market? If it's the latter, do you expect that to continue? Should we be assuming this carries on? Secondly, on the oxio acquisition, I was wondering if you could elaborate on your plans for the oxio. What should we expect to see Cogeco do with that platform? Thanks.
Bank of America, please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Just one on your comments about, I guess, going forward in the Canadian footprint. You mentioned to expect some higher capex to drive growth in the back half of the year.
I was just wondering, is that related to the new territories that you're opening up or is that mostly related to kind of increased competition that we're seeing in the market? And if it's the latter, do you expect that to continue? Should we be assuming this carries on?
Secondly, on the Oxio acquisition, I was wondering if you could elaborate on your plans for the Oxio. What should we expect to see Code2Code do with that platform? On the expansion, it's actually the former.
Patrice Ouimet: Sure. On the extension, it is actually the former. It is related to our expansions. I would say, outside the expansions, our CapEx level can fluctuate from quarter to quarter. Overall, is relatively stable. The expansions is where there is obviously a lot of outside construction, and typically you have more of that during the summer months than in the H1, where you will have the winter months.
So it's related to our expansions. And I would say outside the expansions, our cat-ex level can fluctuate from quarter to quarter, but overall is relatively stable. And the expansions is where there's a lot of outside construction.
Matthew Griffiths: Yeah. Sorry, Patrice. If I said CapEx, I'm sorry. I think your comment was about OpEx in H2 impacting EBITDA. Maybe I got that wrong, but sorry if I said CapEx when I was asking the question, but I meant to ask about OpEx.
Maybe I got that wrong, but sorry if I said CapEx when I was asking the question, but I meant to ask about OpEx.
Patrice Ouimet: Okay. Sorry. I think I heard CapEx, but I could be wrong as well.
Matthew Griffiths: I'm sorry.
Okay, okay, sorry. And I think I heard CapEx but I could be wrong as well. So, yes, so basically we do have some investments we're making and one of them is in the OXO brand leads to your other question.
Patrice Ouimet: Yeah. Basically, we do have some investments we're making, and one of them is in the oxio brand. It leads to your other question, where we're seeing a lot of growth and basically there's a portion of investments that comes with it. Otherwise, it's other elements that we're just seeing for H2, but we're still remaining within the guidance that we have provided. Did you want to comment on oxio?
where we're seeing a lot of growth and basically there's a portion of investments that comes with it. Otherwise, it's other elements that we're just seeing for the back half of the year, but we're still remaining within the guidance that we have provided.
Philippe Jetté: Just before going to oxio, to us, it's really striking always the right balance between growth in terms of PSU and the business overall and returning capital to shareholder and increase shareholder value. We do have a number of very good expansion programs contributing in the short and the midterm as well to the growth of the business. We're allocating to these programs as they come with partnership with governments and subsidies. That's really good to create waves of growth for the business. Quebec had a couple of waves and we can already see the payoffs now. Ontario is following and we're preparing, as we mentioned, BEAD in the US. We're creating these heart paddles of growth for the organization. In this context, you should think of oxio as just another wave of growth.
Did you want to comment on the OXIO?
So, just before going to OXIO, to us it's really striking always the right balance between growth in terms of PSU and the business overall and returning capital to...
shareholder and increase shareholder value. We do have a number of very good expansion programs contributing in the short and the mid term as well to the growth of the business. We're allocating to these programs as they come with partnership with governments and subsidies.
So that's really good to create waves of growth for the business. Quebec had a couple of waves and we can already see the payoffs now. Ontario is following and we're preparing, as we mentioned, beads in the US. So we're creating these heart paddles of growth for the organization.
In this context, you should think of OXEO as just another wave of growth. They will continue to operate almost independently of the Cogeco brand in the market. We are going to keep their brand. They are operating in five provinces. We will go and capture growth.
Philippe Jetté: They will continue to operate almost independently of the Cogeco brand in the market. We are going to keep their brand. They are operating in five provinces. We will go and capture growth, PSU, as they're growing very fast, and they will keep on growing for many years, and we will continue to stimulate that growth in the market. Think of it as just another wave or heart paddle for growth.
Matthew Griffiths: Okay. If I may follow up on that, how do you balance? It seems like the industry as a whole is adding this vector of potential growth, and if you are all looking at this wholesale vector to support growth, what do you feel the net effect of that would be? Obviously this is one vector for you. There's other players that cumulatively, that's three vectors of potential decline that are coming at you. How do you see that balancing in the industry?
If I may follow up on that, so how do you balance, it seems like the industry as a whole is adding this vector of potential growth and if you're all looking at this wholesale vector to support growth, what do you feel the net effects of that would be? Because obviously
this is one vector for you, there's other players that cumulatively it's three vectors of potential decline that are coming at you, how do you see that balancing in the industry?
Philippe Jetté: Well, it's all about your agility in the end, your cost structure. With oxio, we have a fully digital model. It's a low-cost structure, high growth. I feel really good about capturing volume, and by definition, outside of our footprint. Feel good about the possibility there with oxio.
Well, it's all about your agility in the end, your cost structure. With OXIO, we have a fully digital model. It's a low cost structure, high growth. I feel really good about capturing volume.
and by definition outside of our footprint. So feel good about the possibility there with Doxio. And if I could just sneak one other one in just on the dividend.
Matthew Griffiths: Okay. If I could just sneak one other one in, just on the dividend. Is there a target payout ratio that you guys have in mind as you increase the dividend, or you're more focused on sustaining the current growth rate going forward?
Is there a target payout ratio that you guys have in mind as you increase the dividend? Or is it more focused on sustaining the current growth rate going forward?
Patrice Ouimet: I guess we look at both. Generally, although we don't state it as a policy, we've historically, and still the case, trying to be within 25% to 35% of free cash flow. Depending on which free cash flow you're using, for example, for this year, with or without the network expansions, you're at these two numbers. We do look at the pace of growth as well. Given that the payout is not a large one, we have capacity to keep growing the dividend. We typically do this in Q4, so we'll have to have those discussions with the board. So far at this point, I don't see a reason why we would not be able to keep growing the dividend at a faster pace than what you typically see in the industry.
Matthew Griffiths: All right. Thank you very much.
Patrice Ouimet: At the highest level, we do have a very predictable business. It's stable. It has stability. We generate high free cash flow, and we have modest leverage in the end. Our capital allocation strategy is really of growth investment and return to capital. Dividend is one part of that. The good news is we can actually do many or act on many of these levers in investing in our products, continue to invest in growing our footprint. Dividend is part of that, and we have also supplemented all these with meaningful buybacks in the past two years. All in all, it's about balancing all these things and growing and returning value to shareholders.
Matthew Griffiths: All right. Thank you very much.
Patrice Ouimet: Welcome.
Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from Vince Valentini of TD Securities. Please go ahead.
Vince Valentini: Thanks very much. First, just want to clarify a couple things on oxio. Patrice, the revenue guidance is slightly impacted, but to be clear, you said there's no EBITDA contribution this year, so your EBITDA guidance stays the same, and that's pure with no acquisition contribution. Is that fair?
Patrice Ouimet: I wouldn't say it's none, but it's not material in EBITDA. That's right. It did not really have an impact or a material impact on the EBITDA front, but in revenue, there was more of an impact.
Vince Valentini: Thank you. Does that also imply that not many of the oxio customers are actually in your territory and currently wholesaling the telco network, so that there is no immediate benefit of shifting volume to your own cable network and get a quick pickup? I assume there is none of that, or else the EBITDA would be a bit better.
Patrice Ouimet: That's right. I would say, again, we're not necessarily disclosing the exact EBITDA figure for oxio, the main reason why it's not like some others we've seen before is that it's growing fast and there's a sizable investment on the acquisition front. To your question, most of the customers are outside our footprint. They're mainly in large urban centers as opposed to being in areas where we operate.
Vince Valentini: Thank you. My last question's on wireless, probably more for Philippe, but you mentioned a couple times capital-light in terms of the MVNO strategy. I'm just trying to reconcile this with the CRTC rules that currently say you have to build out your own network over seven years. Are you expecting them to back down from that or change those rules? When you say capital-light, you're basically just talking for the first couple of years, but eventually you'd have to buy more spectrum and build your own network if you did avail of the current CRTC regime. Is that not fair?
Philippe Jetté: We've said many times that we are building a capital-light model. We have not changed our mind. The model is a little bit different than the traditional model where you build and you try to find customers and load up revenue. Here, we will be able to rent and actively market and sell, find customers and gradually build where we need to, and only where and when we need to, as we can lease capacity for a long time. We have other options as well, partnerships or other means of complementing our strategy with win-win-wins in the market. We have not changed our mind on the model we have in plans. We need to go through the next steps, and we'll see where it goes.
Patrice Ouimet: Yeah, if I can add, obviously as we move forward, as we do in everything we do, if there's opportunities for us to reduce investments in the end of the period, assuming it's the period we're looking at today or reduce operational risk, these are always things that we'll look at. There's ways of doing it with other folks as well. At this point, we're very focused on getting going with the regulated MVNO as a base. There's upside to that after a year in operation.
Vince Valentini: Okay. No, that's good. I lied. Let me throw in one more question that Mr. Brashnaliel asked it, but do you want to comment on The Globe and Mail article from earlier this week? Like the things that were talked about there in terms of asset swaps or participating in a buyback? I assume you don't want to comment, but I want to make sure you have the opportunity because nobody else asked.
Philippe Jetté: No, we don't have any comments.
Vince Valentini: Fair enough. Thanks.
Patrice Ouimet: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back to Mr. Ouimet for closing remarks.
Patrice Ouimet: Okay, thanks everyone for being there today. We should be reporting our Q3 numbers in mid-July, so feel free to call us in the meantime. Thank you.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude the conference call for today. We thank you for your participation and ask that you please disconnect your lines.
