PennantPark Investment Corporation Q2 2023 Earnings Call
Speaker 2: Good afternoon and welcome to the Pennette Park Investment Corporation's second fiscal quarter 2023 earnings conference call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen-only mode. The call will be open for a question and answer session following the speaker's remarks.
Speaker 2: If you would like to ask a question at that time, simply press star 1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star 2 on your telephone keypad. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Art Penn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pennant Park Investment Corporation. Mr. Penn, you may begin your conference.
Speaker 3: Good afternoon everyone. I'd like to welcome you to Penn and Park Investment Corporation's second fiscal quarter 2023 earnings conference call. I'm joined today by Rick O'Lorder, our chief financial officer.
Speaker 3: Rick, please start off by disclosing some general conference call information and include a discussion about forward-looking statements.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Art. I'd like to remind everyone that today's call is being recorded. Please note that this call is the property of Penn and Park Investment Corporation and that any unauthorized broadcast of this call in any form is strictly prohibited.
Speaker 3: An audio replay of the call will be available on our website.
Speaker 3: I'd also like to call your attention to the customary Safe Harbor disclosure in our press release regarding forward-looking information.
Speaker 3: Today's conference call may also include forward-looking statements and projections, and we ask that you refer to our most recent filings with the SEC for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these projections.
Speaker 3: We do not undertake to update our forward-looking statements unless required by law.
Speaker 3: To obtain copies of our latest SEC filings, please visit our website at Pennandpark.com or call us at 212-905-1000.
Speaker 3: At this time, I'd like to turn the call back to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Art Penn.
Speaker 3: Thanks, Rick. We're going to spend a few minutes and comment on our target market environment, provide a brief summary of how we fared in the quarter and in March 31st, how the portfolio is positioned for the upcoming quarters, a detailed review of the financials, and open it up for Q&A.
Speaker 3: For the core ended March 31st, our net investment income was $0.26 per share. Our NII was $0.21 per share and excluded $0.05 of one-time interest and dividend income.
Speaker 3: GAAP NAV decreased slightly to $7.60 per share from $7.71 per share or 1.4%.
Speaker 3: This decrease was driven largely by valuation adjustments on our equity co-investments partially offset by net investment income in excess of the dividend.
Speaker 3: Our debt portfolio continues to benefit from rising base rates. As of March 31, our weighted average yield to maturity was 12.1%, which is up from 11.9% last quarter and 8.4% last year.
Speaker 3: As a result of a stable debt portfolio and growing net investment income, the Board of Directors has approved another increase in the quarterly dividend to 20 cents per share.
Speaker 3: This is an 8% increase from the prior quarter and a 38% increase from a year ago.
Speaker 3: The dividend will be paid on July 3rd to Cheryl Rose of Record as of June 15th.
Speaker 3: We are confident that with the continued strong credit performance, the increased dividend will be more than fully covered by net investment income.
Speaker 3: For the quarter ended March 31st, we invested $58 million in new and existing portfolio companies, had a weighted average yield of 11.8%, and had sales and repayments of $114 million.
Speaker 3: For the investments in new portfolio companies, the weighted average debt to EBITDA was 4.3 times.
Speaker 3: The weighted average interest coverage was two times and the weighted average loaned value was 49%.
Speaker 3: On March 31st the JV portfolio equals 748 million and together with our JV partner we continue to execute on the plan to grow the JV portfolio to 1 billion dollars of assets.
Speaker 3: We believe that the increase in scale and the JV's attractive double-digit ROE will also enhance P&NT's earnings momentum.
Speaker 3: We continue to believe that the current vintage of middle market directly originated loans should be excellent.
Speaker 3: Leverage is lower, spreads and upfront fees are higher, and covenants are tighter.
Speaker 3: The credit quality of the portfolio continues to perform well. As of March 31st, we had one non-accrual out of 135 different names at PNNT.
Speaker 3: This represents 1.1% of the portfolio cost and 0% on market value.
Speaker 3: Our investment in Walker Edison has returned to accrual status after completing a balance sheet restructuring.
Speaker 3: PNNT has an equity ownership and Dominion voting which subsequent to quarter-end settled their lawsuit with Fox News for $787 million.
Speaker 3: Dominion has communicated their intention to distribute the net settlement proceeds and P&NT shares estimated to be approximately $12 million.
Speaker 3: Now let me turn to the current market environment.
Speaker 3: From an overall perspective in this market environment of inflation, rising interest rates, geopolitical risk, and a potentially weakening economy, we are well positioned as a lender focused on capital preservation in the United States where the floating interest rates on our loans can protect against rising interest rates and inflation.
Speaker 3: We continue to believe that our focus on the core middle market provides the company with attractive investment opportunities where we are an important strategic capital to our borrowers. We have a long-term track record of generating value by successfully financing high-growth middle market companies in five key sectors. These are sectors where we have substantial domain expertise, know the right questions to ask, and have an excellent track record. They are business services, consumer, government services and defense.
Speaker 3: the core middle market provides the company with attractive investment opportunities where we are an important strategic capital to our borrowers. We have a long-term track record of generating value by successfully financing high-growth middle market companies in five key sectors. These are sectors where we have substantial domain expertise, know the right questions to ask, and have an excellent track record. They are business services, consumer, government services and defense, healthcare, and business.
Speaker 3: and software technology. These sectors have also been recession resilient and tend to generate strong free cash flow.
Speaker 3: In our software vertical, we do not have any exposure to ARR loans.
Speaker 3: In many cases we are typically part of the first institutional capital into a company and the loans that we provide are important strategic capital that fuel the growth and help that $10 to $20 million EBITDA company grow to $30, $40, $50 million of EBITDA or more. We typically participate in the upside by making an equity co-investment.
Speaker 3: Our returns on these equity and call investments have been excellent over time.
Speaker 3: Overall for the platform from inception through March 31st, we've invested over 394 million dollars in equity co-investments and have generated an IRR of 26% and a multiple uninvested capital of 2.2 times.
Speaker 3: Because we are an important strategic lending partner, the process and package of terms we receive is attractive. We have many weeks to do our diligence with care. We thoughtfully structure transactions with sensible credit statistics.
Speaker 3: meaningful covenants, substantial equity cushions to protect our capital, attractive upfront fees and spreads and an equity co-investment.
Speaker 3: Additionally, from a monitoring perspective, we receive monthly financial statements to help us stay on top of the companies.
Speaker 3: With regard to covenants, virtually all of our originated first lien loans had meaningful covenants which helped protect our capital. This is one reason why our default rate and performance during COVID was so strong and why we believe we are well positioned in this environment.
Speaker 3: This sector of the market, companies with 10 to 15 million vipathas, is the core middle market.
Speaker 3: The core middle market is below the threshold and does not compete with the broadly syndicated loan or high yield markets
Speaker 3: Many of our peers who focus on the upper middle market state that those bigger companies are less risky.
Speaker 3: That is a perception and may make some intuitive sense, but the reality is different.
Speaker 3: According to S&P, loans to companies with less than $50 million of EBITDA have a lower default rate and a higher recovery rate than loans to companies with higher EBITDA.
Speaker 3: We believe that the meaningful covenant protections of the core middle market, more careful diligence, and tighter monitoring have been an important part of this differentiated performance.
Speaker 3: Since inception, PNNT has invested $7.4 billion with an average yield of 12%.
Speaker 3: This compares to a loss ratio of approximately 22 basis points annually.
Speaker 3: This strong track record includes our energy investments, primarily subordinated debt investments made prior to the financial crisis and recently the pandemic.
Speaker 3: With regard to the outlook, new loans in our target market are attractive and this vintage should be particularly attractive. Our experienced and talented team and our wide origination funnel is producing active deal flow.
Speaker 3: Our continued focus remains on capital preservation and being patient investors. We want to reiterate our goal is to generate attractive risk-adjusted returns through income coupled with long-term preservation of capital.
Speaker 3: We seek to find investment opportunities in growing middle market companies that have high free cash flow conversion.
Speaker 3: We capture that free cash flow primarily through dead instruments and we pay out those contractual cash flows in the form of dividends to our shareholders.
Speaker 3: Let me now turn the call over to Rick, our CFO , to take us through the financial results.
Speaker 3: Thank you Art. For the quarter ended March 31, net investment income was $0.26 per share and coordinate investment income was $0.21 per share.
Speaker 3: Core net investment income excludes approximately 5 cents per share of one-time income related primarily to the acceleration of OID amortization in connection with the early repayment of our loan to PRA.
Speaker 4: Operating expenses for the quarter were as follows. Interest and credit facility expenses were $10.6 million.
Speaker 4: base management and incentive fees for $7.6 million.
Speaker 4: General and administrative expenses were $1.1 million, and provision for excise tax was $450,000.
Speaker 4: For the quarter ended March 31st, net realized and unrealized change on investments and debt, including provision for taxes.
Speaker 4: was a loss of $11.8 million or $0.18 per share.
Speaker 4: The change in the fair value of our credit facility increased our GAAP NAV by 2 cents per share.
Speaker 4: As of March 31st, our NAV per share was $7.60, which is down 1.4%
Speaker 4: from $7.71 per share from the prior quarter. As of March 31st, our debt-to-equity ratio was 1.43 times the total debt-to-equity ratio. The total debt-to-equity ratio was 1.43 times the total debt-to-equity ratio. The total debt-to-equity ratio was 1.43 times
and our capital structure is diversified across multiple funding sources.
including both secured and unsecured debt.
As of March 31st, our key portfolio statistics were as follows.
The portfolio remains highly diversified with 135 companies across 30 different industries.
The weighted average yield on debt investments was 12.1%.
The portfolio was invested in 57% first lien secured debt, 10% in second lien secured debt, 8% in subordinated notes to PSLF, and 5% in lien secured debt.
5% in other subordinated debt, 5% in PSLF equity, and 15% in other preferred and common equity Lose pursuing ply over 50% No debt the average
96% of the debt portfolio is floating rate with an average LIBOR floor of 1%. Debt to EBITDA on the portfolio is 4.6 times.
and LTM interest coverage ratio is 2.8 times.
The portfolio as a whole has a meaningful cushion with regard to interest coverage.
on a sensitivity basis for overall interest coverage to decrease to 1.25 times.
Base rates would need to go up 150 basis points and EBITDA would need to decrease by 35%.
would need to go up 150 basis points, and EBITDA would need to decrease by 35%. Now let me turn the call back to Art.
Thanks Rick. In closing, I'd like to thank our dedicated and talented team of professionals for their continued commitment to PNNT and its shareholders.
Thank you all for your time today and for your continued investment and confidence in us. That concludes our remarks at this time. I would like to open up the call to questions. Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment.
settlement that you guys announced in the um
press release last night, the 12 million. So.
Are we looking at potentially like an 18 cent sort of one-time payment in, you know, a future quarter at some point? Is that the correct number?
Yes, that is correct, Paul. That will come through as a dividend income.
Is that reflected in any way in the 331 mark? Or is that...
Mark pretty much now I guess current okay now we need not reflected in the 331 mark
I guess current okay. No, it is not reflected in the 331 mark Got it. Okay.
I guess just kind of higher level questions.
I guess in terms of like the opportunity set that you guys see today, in the past, obviously, subordinated, second-laid type of opportunities, junior capital opportunities have been part of the strategy in P&NT, I know, for a long time. The strategy has been moving away from that. In today's world, I'm just curious, you know, is there...
Are you starting to see any sort of attractive opportunities in that part of the market? Or you know at this point. They're just not enough of a differentiation you know between the I guess maybe the first loan type of opportunities that you're seeing really stretch for a junior capital.
Yeah, it's a great question. I think we've always even recently been open to, secondly, Mez. As the bar is high, you know, the lesson...
Yeah, it's a great question. I think we've always even recently been open to, secondly, Mez. The bar is high. You know, the lesson we've learned is...
You gotta be right and you gotta be right quick.
Because if you're a Mez or second lean four years down the road something didn't go right. So we're still up in the Mez and second lean. Some of the Mez today has a big pick portion.
because so much cash pay, Ibadah is going towards paying the first lien. We're not a lover of PIC. So our funnel for Mez in second is gonna be a little bit more,
how much cash pay Iba does going towards paying the first lien. We're not a lover of PIC. So, our funnel for medicine second is going to be a little bit more selective.
That said, you know, the subordinated debt and equity that we buy in our joint venture, this PSLF joint venture, where it's mostly firstly collateral underlying the portfolio, and we leverage it up a little bit more than what's in the BDC, is a very attractive return on invested capital backed by cash pay.
conservatively structured senior debt. So that's kind of been where we've been getting the incremental juice in this portfolio is kind of building that JV. I think as of quarter end it was about 750 million of
of assets. For us it was about a $150 million investment and continuing to grow that is a very nice way to get some incremental yield on the portfolio in a safe way.
That makes sense.
That's helpful color there on the opportunity set. Last question, just kind of broadly on your equity co-investments.
I guess, you know, are those investments, you know, over time, are they pretty much entirely dependent on some sort of M&A event from the sponsor, you know, basically a sale of the business, you know, to exit that business for a realization of that equity co-investment? Or are there other ways?
that can be constructed over time, I guess, for you guys to potentially cash out some of those investments.
Yes, so good question. We're going in kind of heads up with the sponsor. We've had a very good long-term 2.2 times MOIC over 17 years on that capital, so it's been very accretive. And just like the sponsor, there's an M&A exit, there's a potential IPO exit.
And then there's certainly dividends that can come out of that. The Dominion voting situation, that'll be a dividend coming at us out of the company because we're an equity shareholder. So, really aligning ourselves, I guess we could sell our equity.
to the sponsor if we need or want liquidity. We haven't needed it and you generally don't like being on the opposite side of someone who may have slightly more information than you have.
So we haven't elected that route, but we could if we needed or wanted liquidity, sell these stakes back to the sponsor.
That makes sense and one last question if I may just going back real quick to the the settlement payment in future quarter. Do you guys have any thoughts on terms of how you guys are going to treat that income? You know special maybe like a special one time dividend retain part of it any sort of thoughts there and how you're going to treat it.
Yeah, so, you know, look, we always evaluate. I don't think we have any predisposition. We're building some nice spillover, and that'll go into kind of our dividend policy over the next year, year and a half.
You saw a very nice bump in the dividend this quarter.
We think it's sustainable based on ongoing NII, and we have this nice kind of spillover that can potentially go into protecting that dividend over time.
We'll take our next question from Robert Dodd with Raymond James.
Hi guys, a quick question on submission if I can. Any visibility into the timing? I mean obviously it will be a fairly significant benefit when it does occur to shareholders.
So is it likely to occur in the June quarter or later just for a more different purpose? Yeah, we've been led to believe that'll happen in this quarter that we're in right now, the quarter ended June 30th.
Thank you. Then on to the equity, you've been, obviously, it's been declining as a portion of the portfolio. If we take out the JV...
I'm still kind of in a mitt teams, the target is lower than that. I mean obviously to your point that the answer you skip can potentially liquidate it, but that's not necessarily how you do so. But how fast do you think, how fast would you expect that to come down towards you?
talking of 10 issues we do achieve? It's a great question. And yeah, look, it's it's tied to, you know, M&A deal flow, M&A deal flow, as we all know, has been slow year to date.
You know, so what normally, you know, when you make a private equity investment, people normally say it's a three to five year life, and maybe things have been extended a year due to the market environment.
So look, I think we hope that over the next year or two, we're going to be able to get some.
reasonable exits and bring it down. I mean, back to the last question about Dominion, and it wasn't even included in the NAV for the March quarter because we did not know it was an event. As of March 31st, you could have put that $12 million into the mix and said, the CHE or equity percentage is higher.
over time we've had well in excess of a two times MOIC on this capital.
You just got to kind of wait till it happens. Got it. I appreciate that. Thank you. We'll take our next question from Kyle Joseph with Jefferies. Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Just wanted to talk about the originations environment.
and kind of walk us through the cadence in the quarter. Obviously, you know, deal flow is light. I get M&A's light out there. But, you know, in terms of timing, were January and February fairly kind of consistent? Did you see a big fall off kind of in March post all the regional bank volatility? And how's deal flow been kind of quarter to date?
Yeah, so Q1, calendar Q1 was slow as it normally is slow. Seasonally it's usually normally a slow quarter, made slower this year by the turmoil in the capital markets and the rising interest rates.
made even slower, you know, since the banking situation, the banking...
kind of issues that we've had. So what's going on is buyers and sellers, to a large extent, are still trying to figure out where they meet. Sellers still are hoping for a value like it was a year or two ago, and buyers are baking in higher interest rates and potentially...
you know, softening economy. So until there's equilibrium between buyers and sellers, there's not going to be a lot of deal flow.
That's statement one. Statement two is we are starting to see more deal flow. So we are starting to see
buyers and sellers get together and our deal flow is picking up. No guarantees as to what's going to close between now and June 30th and what's going to close after June 30th. But it does feel like the second half of 2023 will certainly be busier than the first half.
All right, got it. And then on the repayments were a little bit elevated in the quarter. Just wondering, is that RAM? Is that some other one-time things in there? Obviously, it's never bad to get paid back and never bad to get paid back when it really boosts your other income. But just kind of wondering if that's a one-off or a trend.
Look, RAMP is by definition is one off and that happened that past quarter and APRA which is this corporate events company.
that we invested in that was exited. And that's where that one time non-core positive fee came in, you know, from that exit. It was a company that, you know, it's a corporate events company. So by definition, in the middle of COVID, it was struggling.
And as you can probably sense, people are getting out and about and traveling and corporate events have blossomed post COVID. So that company really paid us back well and early and we had a very nice exit fee as part of the redo of the capital structure in the middle of COVID. Time
which generated the one-time fee income. So really those are the two primary drivers. I mean are they one-time or ongoing? We'll see. We certainly, you know, you're gonna have certainly the companies that are tied to...
events and tied to travel. We have some trade show businesses, for instance, that were getting hurt in COVID. Those companies are now obviously doing very well. There might be more of that. That is a piece of the portfolio. It's not an oversized piece, but it's a piece of the portfolio. Those companies are doing well. Thanks very much for answering my questions.
events and tied to travel. You know, we have some trade show businesses, for instance, that were getting hurt in COVID. Those companies are now obviously doing very well. So, there might be more of that. That is a piece of the portfolio. It's not an oversized piece, but it's a piece of the portfolio. Those companies are doing well. Got it. Thanks very much for answering my questions. Thanks, Kyle.
We'll take our next question from Mickey Schlen with Leidenberg. Yes, good afternoon everyone. Art, a lot of discussion about how folks are so excited about the current vintage of deals and I would definitely agree. I'm curious whether you're being able to structure terms in these deals that will answer your question.
allow them to stay on the books, you know, as long as you would like given how attractive they are. Whether it's the tenor or the prepayment penalties that you're building in or anything else that you're able to do to try to ensure that, you know, this will show up in the income statement a couple years from now.
Yeah, it's a good question and you know kind of the average investment in this last quarter did keep it down 4.3 times, very attractive, interest coverage two times and LTV about 50%. So this is an attractive vintage and I guess that's the blessing of the equity co-invest. That's our tail. When companies do well.
we have that tail and we participate in
and the company is doing well. You know, we've had deals in the last six months where even post banking situation, the company deleveraged to two or three times dead-tip at dawn, a commercial bank took us out. That's great. If we're in the equity, we are participating in the lower cost of capital. By definition, it means the company's a good free cash flow generator.
And at some point, that equity value will be ascertained in some way, shape, or form. Dominion voting paid off the debt.
I don't know, two years ago. So we still have this residual equity call investment which is paying off.
Thank you for that, Art. I appreciate your time. Thank you. We'll take our next question from Mark Hughes with Truist.
Yeah, thank you. Good afternoon. Is there any potential variability in that Dominion payout, or is that pretty well said? Any final wrangling on the numbers?
No, we were, that's why I say approximately 12 million.
Ultimately, 12 million, there's still...
There's legal fees and taxes that kind of come off the top, but it's kind of pretty in that zone, pretty much in that zone. Yeah. What is your opinion on the credit environment here? We've been kind of tipping into recession for two years now.
I'm just sort of curious how you think the economy is shaping up. You've got a unique view from where you sit. I'll talk to you soon.
It's a mixed economy, certainly not what it was coming out of COVID, which everything was going gangbusters.
The consumer is particularly mixed because the consumer on one hand is happy to go take trips and
go take cruises and hop on planes and stay in hotels. On the other hand, when it comes to goods, it's been more cautious buying furniture. Walker Edison, a prior non-accrualist furniture company. So, Walker Edison did great during COVID and is doing much softer now. So, to buy per K to consumer, you've got to be careful.
in the consumer space.
consumer space. So it's much more kind of mixed I think.
Obviously when we underwrite credit here we assume there's a recession. There may not be one we may be able to skate by which would be nice but we assume there's a recession and when we do our our credit underwriting we're putting that in the model to see how these companies.
would perform in a recessionary case. That's our assumption as prudent credit underwriters. Our house view is probably there might be a light recession, but that doesn't impact how we underwrite. We underwrite for a recession. Yeah, how bad would the recession have to be for it to be material to the portfolio?
You know, hard to say. I mean, I think Rick and his numbers gave this sensitivity around, you know, EBITDA would have to go down something like 35%.
And at the same time, which is contradictory, base rates would have to go up 150 basis points, and you're down to one and a quarter times.
EBITDA to interest coverage. Obviously, if the economy is soft, the Fed's probably not raising rates.
So, you know, that's kind of an interesting thing to think about which is if the economy softifies probably reducing rates
which will increase interest coverage. The yields will go down. We of course have floors, but the yields would go down. But you know, I think you can do the work as much as I can. I think in an environment where yields are going down, investors may flock to yield vehicles like BDCs.
to take advantage of high yields. So, yeah, you know we don't have the scenarios.
advantage of high yields. So yeah, you know, we don't know what the scenario is. Thank you for that. Appreciate it.
Thanks.
We'll take our next question from Melissa Weddle with JP Morgan.
Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. Wanted to touch on the dividend increase in the June quarter. I think it's like the sixth quarter that you've done an increase to the dividend.
Just thinking ahead, are you thinking about this dividend increase a little bit differently than the rest? Does this feel like maybe with where the forward curve is projecting rates to go that this might be a good place to pause? Or will you keep evaluating?
Yeah, I want to sound a lot like the Fed with my answer Melissa, which is we're going to let the facts and circumstances You know dictate how we go. I mean the various facts and circumstances would be
I like the Fed with my answer, Melissa, which is we're going to let the facts and circumstances, you know, dictate how we go.
kind of, you know, how's our JV expansion going and is that going to continue to be able to generate more ROE? How's our rotation of equity going? Obviously, equity rotation and even things like Dominion where we have, you know, fresh equity powder. How's that looking to be able to rotate that into yield? How's our spillover looking? You know, we have substantial spillover.
That's on the positive side and then on the potential issue side is where are defaults and non-accruals, where are long-term rates and our cost of financing. So I think every quarter we do our best. We look at the facts and circumstances and...
And to our best, we're very pleased that we've taken a dividend up from 12 cents to 20 cents in a relatively short period of time, which does in fact mimic the NII and earnings of the company.
pleased that we've taken a dividend up from 12 cents to 20 cents in a relatively short period of time, which does in fact mimic the NII and earnings of the company. And we'll see where we go from here.
All right, fair enough. Thinking about portfolio leverage and where you guys are at now, certainly there's been rotation in the portfolios, but leverage is still fairly high. It doesn't sound like you're particularly pessimistic from a macro perspective, but how-
How are you thinking about portfolio leverage and where would you like to run that in an environment with the opportunities that you're seeing today? Yeah, and we did you know I think we mentioned in our remarks You know we're targeting you know we target one and a quarter times, so we're a little over levered At this point we're confident that with with you know some retainments and some
you know equity rotations we can easily glide down to that we are conscious of our conscious of our credit rating and it's important for us to you know for attractive debt capital to keep a strong credit rating so
we'll gradually let it grind down to one and a quarter-ish, one and a quarter area over the coming time period at the same time as we try to optimize the joint venture and the financing and the JV and the ROE from the joint venture at the same time as we try to rotate equity. That's helpful. Thanks, Art.
and ask, would you model it in? And if you modeled it in, what quarter would you model it into?
Again, we've been told that it's this quarter into June . There were any guarantees, but that's what we've been told. I'm just giving it to you.
Again, we've been told that it's this quarter into June . There were no guarantees, but that's what we've been told. I'm just giving it to you straight and...
To us it's just, you can't say it's recurring. I mean this is, it's kind of like sometimes when you get your equity co-invest really blossoms into something great. You can't really model it. It's just like nice upside to offset.
the inevitable downside you have as a lender from time to time. So, you know, when we think about kind of what it means to an II and dividend, it's obviously not recurring. Next quarter, hopefully it'll be in there and we'll say it's non-recurring. It does build spillover though, right? So, you know, as we think about long-term dividend policy, it does impact that.
And it adds to NAB. I believe the previous question said 18 cents a share. I think when you net it out versus incentive fees, it is more like 14 or 15 cents a share.
And it adds to the NAB. I believe the previous question said 18 cents a share. I think when you net it out versus incentive fees, it is more like 14 or 15 cents a share. I think it is the real impact.
My second question is, you know, I realize it's a small position, but the restructured loan of Walker Edison, my understanding is that it's 100% pick. Did you consider leaving it on non-accrual for the time being?
until such a point in time as the company is able to turn that into more of a cash pay instrument? Yes, good question. I think the independent valuation firms are marking that instrument at par.
It's a hard, you know, it's a good question. You know, by the way, it's not really material in PNNT at this point anyway.
But it's a good question. I think our valuation firm said, hey, that's a par instrument. Granted, if in a couple of quarters the company doesn't perform well and it starts to get marked down, I think we'll take another look at that. Again, thankfully it's not that big of a...
an investment for us at this point. It's underperformed. We're certainly hopeful that the company will find its footing and people will buy furniture from this company and it will have a steady EBITDA and at some point we certainly hope our debt is paid off and our equity has value, but it's early days. All right, well, and I'm fully cognizant that
and your actual, your original last investment in Walker Edison, you guys took a very attractive game. So, you know, there is two sides to this story. So, alright, thanks for taking my questions.
actually your original last investment in Walker Edison you guys took a very attractive game so you know there's there is there is two sides to this story so alright thanks for taking my questions thanks Casey
That will conclude our question and answer session. At this time, I'd like to turn the call back over to Mr. Penn for any additional or closing remarks.
I just want to thank everybody for being on the call today. We'll talk to you next time in early August for our June 30th numbers. Thank you very much.
Thank you. That will conclude today's call. We appreciate your participation.
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