Q2 2023 Ashland Inc Earnings Call
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Speaker 1: Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Ashland Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session.
Speaker 2: To ask a question during this session, you will need to press star 1 1 on your telephone and you will hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, press star 1 1 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.
Speaker 2: I would now like to hand the conference over to the speaker today, Seth Rzeczk, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Amber. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Ashland's second quarter fiscal year 2023 earnings conference call and webcast. My name is Seth Morozek, Director, Ashland Investor Relations. Joining me on the call today are Guillermo Novo, Ashland Chair and Chief Executive Officer, and Kevin Willis, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker 3: We released results for the quarter and in March 31st, 2023 at approximately 5.15 p.m. Eastern Time yesterday, May 2nd. The news release issued last night was furnished to the FCC in a form 10-8K.
Speaker 3: During today's call, we will reference slides that are currently being webcasts on our website ashton.com under the Investor Relations section. We encourage you to follow along with the webcasts during the call. Please turn to slide 2.
Speaker 3: As a reminder, during today's call we will be making forward-looking statements on several matters, including our outlook for fiscal year 23. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause future results or events to differ materially from today's projections.
Speaker 3: We believe any such statements are based on reasonable assumptions, but cannot assure that such expectations will be achieved. Please refer to slide 2 of the presentation for an explanation of those risks and uncertainties in the limits applicable to forward-looking statements. You can also review our most recent Form 10-K under item 1a for a comprehensive discussion.
Speaker 3: and assessment of the financial performance of our ongoing business. non-GAAP measures should not be considered a substitute for or superior to financial measures calculated in accordance with GAAP. The most directly comparable GAAP measures as well as reconciliations of the non-GAAP measures to those GAAP measures are available on our website and in the appendix of today's slide presentation. ******
Speaker 3: Please turn to slide three. The video we played at the opening of the webcast today provides a peek at the truly immersive experience that Ashland provided customers when we launched eight new personal care products steeped in a foundation of environmental, social, and governance, or ESG, during the recent Incosmetics Global Trade Show in Barcelona, Spain.
Speaker 3: To learn more behind the range of these newly launched innovations, visit our webpage at www.ashland.com forward slash ncos23. Guillermo will begin the call this morning with an overview of Ashland's performance and results in the second quarter.
Speaker 3: We will then open the line for questions.
Speaker 3: Please turn to slide five and I will turn the call over to Guillermo for his opening comment.
Speaker 3: I will turn them all over to Guillermo for his opening comments. Guillermo.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Seth, and hello everyone. Thank you for your interest in Asselin and your participation today.
Speaker 4: Results in the March quarter were consistent with our expectations at the beginning of the quarter.
Speaker 4: Total sales for the quarter were consistent with prior year. Our global pharma business performed incredibly well.
Speaker 4: and the inflation recovery actions taken last year and early this year continue to benefit overall results.
Speaker 4: However, to state the obvious, we continue to operate in a challenging global environment with ongoing macroeconomic uncertainty and diminished demand visibility.
Speaker 4: The demand dynamics became even more pronounced in the second half of April .
Speaker 4: Themes for the quarter were China COVID lockdown and reopening, destocking, and the impact of the winter storm.
Speaker 4: into two parts. How is consumer demand and how is customer demand?
Speaker 4: From our position in the value chain, the historic stocking reset has clouded visibility to the true underlying consumer demand.
Speaker 4: Consumer demand seems to be more robust than our customer demand given destocking.
Speaker 4: Customer destocking dynamics we saw during the December quarter have slowed, but are still present in certain end markets and continued into April .
Speaker 4: Visibility has also been muted given customer de-stocking.
Speaker 4: segments. While demand for pharma products remains strong, we continue to see weak demand and de-stocking in other segments and markets like nutrition and construction.
Speaker 4: Margins and earnings were mostly impacted by the costs associated with the winter storm at the end of last year and the absorption impact of running plants at lower demand.
Speaker 4: And we completed $200 million of share repurchase during the quarter.
Speaker 4: I will discuss our outlook and the actions we're taking later in the call.
Speaker 4: I will discuss our outlook and the actions we're taking later in the call. Please turn to slide six. Please hold on a moment while Dr.
Speaker 4: As you can see in the chart on the left, year-over-year sales growth in life science was very strong, while the top-line growth in personal care specialty additives was below prior year due to factors I referenced earlier.
Speaker 4: And despite the margin impact of the winter storm, underlying margins remain healthy.
Speaker 4: While there are many global uncertainties in the horizon, the Ashland team is performing well and executing on the actions that are within our control.
Speaker 4: As you saw in our news release last night, we have adjusted our sales and EBITDA outlook for the fiscal year. I will discuss these changes in more detail at the end of the call, but I want to stress a few key takeaways about the changes.
Speaker 4: Our reductions to the Outlook ranges is a proactive decision based upon the dynamics we saw on On 12th in April .
Speaker 4: We are taking inventory control actions which accounts for the EBITDA reduction at the midpoint.
Speaker 4: At the low end of the range, it presumes that additional inventory
Speaker 4: control actions are required later in the year. Let me turn over the call to Kevin to review our Q2 results in more detail, and then I'll come back. Kevin?
Speaker 4: Thank you, Guillermo, and good morning, everyone. Please turn to slide 8.
Speaker 3: Total sales in the quarter were $603 million, essentially flat with prior year, driven by continued insulation recovery and strong demand for pharma ingredients, mostly offset by continued customer de-stocking.
Speaker 3: Sales increased by 2% on a constant currency basis.
Speaker 4: Gross margin declined to 32.7% as cost recovery by the commercial teams was offset by increased input costs and the $13 million of cost impact from the winter storm in December . When excluding key items, SG&A, R&D, and intangible amortization costs, the
Speaker 5: year.
Speaker 4: Note that unfavorable foreign currency negatively impacted adjusted EBITDA by $8 million during the quarter.
Speaker 4: Ashland's adjusted EBITDA margin for the quarter was 24%.
Speaker 4: Adjusted EPS, excluding acquisition amortization for the quarter, was $1.43 per share, down roughly 5% from the prior year.
Speaker 4: Ongoing free cash flow was $37 million for the quarter, a large improvement from the prior year, primarily reflecting changes in working capital.
Speaker 4: Now let's review the results of each of our four operating segments. Please turn to slide nine.
Speaker 4: As Guillermo referenced at the beginning of today's call, Life Sciences delivered another very strong quarter driven by our global pharmaceutical ingredients business.
Speaker 4: pharma demand remained strong, product mix was favorable, the team executed on disciplined cost recovery, all contributing to margin expansion.
Speaker 4: Unfavorable currency impact was a partial offset to the strong performance in life sciences. In total, life sciences sales increased by 18% to $240 million, while adjusted EBITDA increased by 29% to $75 million.
Speaker 4: This includes $5 million of cost related to the winter storm.
Adjusted EBITDA margin increased meaningfully to more than 31%.
Please turn to slide 10. Personal care sales were impacted by continued inventory de-stocking actions by certain customers. As with life sciences, the team continued to realize discipline cost recovery through pricing.
For the quarter, personal care sales declined by 3% to $167 million, while adjusted to the EBITDA decline to $29% to $32 million.
This includes $6 million of costs related to the winter storm.
Adjust the EBITDA margin also declined to roughly 21%.
Unfavorable currency impact was also a headwind to personal care results in the quarter.
Please turn to slide 11. Specialty additives also felt the impact of reduced demand primarily related to continued inventory de-stocking by certain customers, particularly in the construction and performance specialties businesses.
The reduced demand more than offset improved cost recovery for the segment. For the quarter, specialty additive sales declined by 12% to $161 million, while adjusted EBITDA declined by 29% to $34 million.
This includes $1 million of cost related to the winter storm. Adjustity at the down margin also declined to about 21% for the quarter.
dollars of cost related to the winter storm. Adjusted EPDOT margin also declined to about 21% for the quarter. Please turn to slide 12.
Intermediates reported sales of $51 million, down 23% compared to the prior year, driven by consistent merchant market pricing, lower volumes of higher value derivatives.
Intermediates reported adjusted EBITDA of $20 million, a decrease of 33% compared to prior year, and adjusted EBITDA margin declining to 39.2%.
Intermediates reported adjusted EBITDA of $20 million, a decrease of 33 percent compared to prior year, and adjusted EBITDA margin declining to 39.2 percent. Please turn to slide 13.
As we reported last night during the quarter and into early April , Ashland completed a total of $200 million of share repurchases under two separate programs. The combined programs reduced our outstanding share count by approximately 1.95 million shares, or roughly 3.6 percent.
Ashland now has $300 million remaining under the existing Evergreen Share Repurchase Authorization that was approved by Ashland's Board of Directors last year.
As of the quarter close on March 31st, we had cash on hand of about $400 million with total available liquidity of roughly $1.1 billion.
Our net debt is $929 million, which is about 1.6 terms of leverage. We have no floating rate debt outstanding, no long-term debt maturities for the next four years, and all of our outstanding debt is subject to investment-grade style credit terms.
We're investing in our existing business to grow organically and continue to pursue our strategy of enhanced profitable growth through targeted bolt-on and the M&A opportunities focused on pharma, personal care, and coatings.
Against a backdrop of global uncertainty, Ashland has a strong balance sheet with the flexibility to pursue our targeted growth strategy. With that, I'll turn the call back over to Guillermo to discuss our outlook for fiscal year 23.
Thank you, Kevin. Please turn to slide 15.
Our last call we mentioned three key issues critical to the back half of our fiscal year.
the expected magnitude and impact of the recessionary momentum.
Will there be more of a reset or de-stocking impact as we move from higher demand and tight supply to a more recessionary environment?
and uncertainty around the impact of China's COVID reopening and the potential changes in the Russia-Ukraine war dynamics.
Concern around the magnitude and impact of a recessionary momentum continue.
The reset has slowed but not ended. Although results in our fiscal second quarter were consistent with expectation, order pattern dynamics in April indicated that customer destocking has not ended.
but not ended. Although results in our fiscal second quarter were consistent with expectation, order pattern dynamics in April indicated that customer destocking has not ended. data to master one whatsoever.
are very customer specific and difficult to forecast, creating a higher level of uncertainty.
While we expect to gain more clarity on the de-stocking and market dynamics during the March quarter, visibility continues to remain low.
In this environment of greater uncertainty, we are being proactive with our approach.
to our outlook and planning.
We expect the demand for our pharmaceutical products will remain strong through the second half of the fiscal year.
Inventory destocking may continue to create uncertainty for demand in personal care and specialty additives and markets.
On our last call, we indicated that given our tight capacity position on some product lines, we would control inventory but not take bigger inventory reduction actions until we had a greater clarity on the demand outlook.
Ashland's inventory level at the end of March was consistent with the close of December .
However, given the continued demand and macroeconomic uncertainty, Asin will take action to reduce inventory levels in certain product lines during the fiscal third and fourth quarters.
We expect an impact of approximately $20 million related to these inventory control actions during the second half of our fiscal year. If customer destocking persists or consumer demand weakens through the June quarter, we may take additional inventory reduction actions.
If the stocking resides and the market demand normalizes in line with historical recessionary performance, we will be well positioned to capture incremental volume and lower inventory reduction actions.
As such, we're adjusting our sales outlook range for the fiscal year to 2.3 to 2.4 billion and adjusting our adjusted EBITDA outlook range to 580 million to 610 million. As I've stated before, this is a time for caution. We will continue to operate with strong...
capital allocation discipline so that we are in a strong financial position to invest and grow our core business.
allocation discipline so that we are in a strong financial position to invest and grow our core business. These changes reflect our current forecasts.
downside absorption risk, and upside market strengthening potential.
Our customers remain resilient but are clearly taking actions to reset inventory levels consistent with new global demand expectations.
We will remain focused on the things we can control, driving innovation, maintaining operating discipline, managing pricing, mix cost productivity, and capital allocation.
Please turn to slide 16. In closing, I want to restate the key takeaways from the quarter.
The results for March quarter were consistent with our expectations. Our global pharma business performed incredibly well.
The inflation recovery actions taken last year and early this year across Ashland continue to benefit overall results.
We're being proactive in inventory management based upon the dynamics we saw unfold in April .
We are taking inventory control actions which account for an EBITDA reduction at the midpoint of our new outlook.
At the low end of the range includes any additional inventory control actions required later in the year.
Despite the challenging environment, we remain confident in the quality and resilience of the markets we serve and the future. I want to thank the Ashland team once again for their leadership and proactive ownership of their business in an uncertain environment.
With that, thank you everyone and Amber, let's move to Q&A.
At this time, we will conduct the question and answer session. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, press star 11 again. Please stand by as I compile the Q&A roster.
Our first question comes from Christopher Parkinson at Mizzou Securities.
Our first question comes from Christopher Parkinson at Mizzou Securities. Pressure line.
Awesome. Thank you so much for taking my question. Guillermo, I just wanted to dig in a little bit deeper on the guidance revision. What would you say to those investors, LaCell and this call, that believe that your updated guidance range for the second part of the fiscal year is not, quote, quote, completely weirdly de-rest. He mentions that, you know,
there's the possibility in a further deteriorating macro environment for additional D-Stock, would your midpoint include an additional D-Stock to augment the initial 20 that you're setting in your PowerPoint? Or would it be something different? Just any additional color you could add on.
the investor perception of this and additional, the potential for additional image reactions in the context of guidance would be particularly helpful. Thank you.
Yeah, from the actions that we're taking right now, the 20 million would be taking, which are actions we're taking, planning to take and execute during the third and fourth quarter, that would put us into the midpoint of our range. Any additional actions, and that would require that there be stalking.
Number one, I think in the third quarter continues longer than expected. Or, you know, in the second half, in the fourth quarter, if consumer demand really gets impacted. The biggest concern we have right now is more the destocking, which is where we have...
less visibility, but that would require additional actions and that would take us to the lower end of our range. Equally, if the destocking is lower and things normalize, we would be well positioned and we have the inventory to pick up incremental volume.
and we would ease off on the upside on the inventory actions. That's very helpful, Collar. And just one of the things you discussed back in your November 21 analyst day was improving the performance of personal care. Given it was actually the one remaining business that was kind of inconsistent, I mean, like.
So, hypothetically speaking about 24, off of lower inventory levels, do you still have the degree of confidence in your personal care portfolio that you can continuously grow and leverage not only price-cost but also mix and your new product growth, some of which that I think Seth mentioned were launched recently in CAUSE.
Has that confidence at all changed over the last six months, just given the macro volatility? I'd just like to hear your thoughts on that. Thank you. I think if you look at, I would separate two things, the long term and where we're going, and that is, as you mentioned, innovation driven. We're very confident in the programs later in the year. We'll talk a little bit.
to grow. There's a lot of different segments within personal care and I think the transition, the reset from the tight markets and high demand to a more normalized recessionary environment, it's hitting different customers in different ways. So a lot of the activity is really destocking driven.
And that's why it's making a little bit more difficult. If you look at segments right now that are being impacted hair, hair that actually did very well, skin, especially the high-end skin was a little bit softer, especially with travel still being impacted in different parts of the world, especially if you look at Asia.
oral care, we're seeing the stalking and actions and things like denture adhesive. So it's segment by segment and I think a lot of the noise is just this transition from the dynamics of 2022 to the dynamics of 2023. They're very different.
We're going through a difficult reset. I think you're seeing it with other companies and if you look at even our own customer base you know different companies are in different places and it really depends on the segments that they're in. So we're changing. I think you know, we are not losing confidence in our long term. I think that's all about innovation and we continue to invest and are very excited about the portfolio.
Thank you very much. Please hold for our next question. Our next question comes from Joshua Specter of UBS.
Good morning, this is Lucas from Josh. So just wondering, could you give us a bit more detail on the guidance changes you're making. So. You're cutting your sales by 250M, but even about only 20M. So. What are the offsets there please?
So let me make some comments and then Kevin you can give a little bit of color on the segment level. The segments that are getting impacted are not uniform so there is some impact, different impact between sales and...
and EBITDA based on the margins. Areas, you know, what's interesting for us right now, the segments that have been impacted the most in these talking now are not our core, necessarily our core. Pharma is doing well, as we said, you know, personal care has been segment by segment, specialty additives, actually coatings has, you know, it's slightly down, but it's not.
range. Specifically, I would point out our nutrition and construction in Europe , most of our construction businesses in Europe were the most impacted. Those tend to be product lines and spaces with much lower gross profit margin for us. So the impact, there is some gross profit impact, so there is a difference there.
but it's mostly in the absorption side that we're getting impacts. So it's really going to be segment by segment that is driving that.
Kevin, do you want to add any other color and any specific segments? Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, you covered it really well. So, I think the combination of lower margin segments that saw more desocking like construction and nutrition was certainly part of the story. I think, you know, as we look back to Q1...
We were still within the revenue range. We didn't talk much about that. We talked more about the EBITDA range and where we expected to be. But frankly, based on our, where we were forecasting back in Q1 call, the revenue's not really dropped $250 million from that standpoint. It's a lower number.
Right, thanks. And then in terms of your updated guide, for the second half, it's implying either to over about $340 million. What are you assuming in terms of phasing between 3Q and 4Q? You know, traditionally, 4Qs seasonally low up. Would that be bigger this year with the recovery that we're assuming?
No, I think I mean we're moving back into the normal seasonality. I think the last two years we lost a little bit of that just because of some of the tightness of supply and the inflationary dynamics we saw in 21 and 22. So we're forecasting a more normalization. Usually Q3 is a little bit stronger than Q4.
probably this year they're going to be more in line with each other. Last year I think our Q4 was a little bit weaker so it's moving back more to a normalized level and they're probably going to be more even than traditionally in historic levels.
Yeah, a couple things to add to that as well. We had the impact of the winter storm that's rolling through the first half. Obviously, we don't expect that to repeat. In the second half, to Ermo's point, we tend to be stronger in Q3 and Q4 than we are in Q1 and Q2 just in general. And we've also been very focused on cost control. And we'll see how that goes.
Our next question comes from Michael at Wells Fargo. Hey guys, just a couple questions on personal care. When I think about each of the buckets that you have, skincare, haircare, oral care, household, obviously two of them are doing well, two of them are...
are struggling a little bit, but in the hair care and household side, is there a de-stocking there? Is that something that we need to worry about or has that just been really good growth and that you guys have seen in that business?
You know, I would say the de-stocking is customer specific rather than segment specific. And I would say that to all segments, not just personal care. And that's one of the difficulties of having better visibility. You know, we do think the...
skin and certain areas that there's variances in the mix that we have across regions. I do think some of our higher-end skin care, for example, were impacted. You know, travel, things like that in Asia have had an impact on some of the segments where we're very well positioned. So in general, we continue to see strength.
in hair. The skin, you know, as the de-stalking we get past that and we're getting now into the summer season so travel will should increase. Sun protection will also pick up.
we're going to really look at what happens to the dynamics of each of the segments. I think home care is a smaller segment for us. We sell mostly additives. So that's more broad-based use type things. It's not the core of what we do. We're much more focused on the personal care side of the equation. And in oral care, you know, it's...
That one's just one that it's a little bit been traditionally a more difficult. It's a concentrated market both in customer and products. We have a big position in
venture adhesives and that one, you know, we have seen some de-stocking and actions in that area. So it's segment by segment and customer by customer. And I'll say Mike, you know in the same segments we've had customers that have gone up and or been flat and others that have de-stocked and it really is what positions they took.
in 2022. Got it. And then I know you have new capacity that you're scaling up soon. As I recall, it was really because customers really wanted more of your product. How do you think about timing now given things are weaker? Will you delay it or is it just make sense to bring it on and start maybe speculating with customers? Yes.
Yeah, you know, I think some of these are big projects, especially if you look at HEC. We're investing in our core businesses. We're not investing in the secondary markets. Frankly, a lot of the areas where we're seeing a lot of the impact is not where we're investing. So HEC, there's still going to be a core need for new capacity.
We're probably going to be one of the first ones to come in. We're not delaying the project. Remember just a few months ago, we didn't have a lot of volume in our business plan. It was mostly pricing because we didn't have capacity. So we need the capacity, depending on how we're thinking about how much
consumer market. I think this year it's this reset that we have to get through. It's what's real consumer demand at the end of the day. And if that sort of normalizes we're still going to need the volume and we'll invest. There's a few projects probably not the bigger ones that we are managing timing.
We're still continuing them. We're not maybe moving as quickly as we want into next year, but the core ones we continue to see the need for the...
for the volumes moving forward. And you know just to remind it to everybody I think as we see with all these de-stocking the pendulum tends to move one side to the other. If demand normalizes and everybody's de-stocked you could see some noise on the upside. So this is just a noisy time and we just want to be we're taking precautionary actions.
And if the volume is pick up, we will build. The other point I would make, Mike, is where we're reducing inventory most is in the lower margin businesses. So we are well positioned in the higher end so that if demand comes up.
will be, we're not going to impact our ability to supply on that side. And on the lower end, if demand spikes and we can't supply, we'll deal with it. These are not the higher segments that we shouldn't be investing higher levels of inventory there.
Got it. Thank you. Please hold for our next question. Our next question comes from John McNulty at BMO. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I guess somewhat to the
And did the supply chain problems of last year kind of mask what real demand was first, everybody grabbing as much as they could? I guess how should we be thinking about that and what the normalized supply demand is for things like ATC?
Yeah, you know, I would split out John , ATC from the others. I mean ATC, the demand has been stronger. We are seeing adjustments across the chain, but I would say, and especially specifically if you look at coatings, it's a well telegraphed dynamic that's going on there. It's been a little bit softer.
construction, empty construction, these are not areas that we're not investing in for new capacity necessarily. So that's really where we're seeing a lot of the noise.
We feel confident on the core markets and where we're going. We feel confident that the market will demand Will be there longer term that the capacity is needed and we'll continue to invest in the areas where we're seeing the biggest impact We are not adding capacity So we'll continue to manage with the asset and the capacity that we have today
Can you help us to think about how much working capital that releases as we kind of look through the second half of the year and into early next year?
The old rule of thumb on Kevin, you can talk a little bit about it more. It's like two to one, so for every dollar of absorption, two dollars of inventory reduction.
You know, the push I'm trying to work through now is how do we reduce that ratio so that we manage more of the variable costs down as we make these actions. So there's still work in progress, but that's sort of the old rule of thumb that we had. But Kevin.
I don't know if you had an echo. Yeah, that's right. So John , if we do the full 20 million and again it's.
It's going to be spread over the back half of the year based on our current thinking. So, we'll do it as we need to, but we're planning on the full 20 at this point. That's why we adjusted the numbers. That would imply 40 or 50 million dollars of inventory reduction.
over the back half of the year based on our current thinking. So we'll do it as we need to. But we're planning on the full 20 at this point. That's why we adjusted the numbers. That would imply $40 or $50 million of inventory reduction. OK, great. Thanks very much for the help.
Please hold for our next question. Our next question comes from my carison at seaport research partners. Hi, good morning. I'm having a meeting. We're talking, uh, Guillermo that you could give us a little bit more.
We did take pricing action to recover inflation last year and we continue to benefit from that like all the other segments. But it's really the mix change. Pharma continues to be very strong and some of the segments that are getting impacted and that in the de-stocking and all that are the low-end segments. Nutrition has been a big impact. It's a few big customers that have been...
taking massive steps on inventory reduction. And in the nutraceutical, those tend to be lower margin segments for us. So, strength in the stronger pharma segment, weakness in the weaker lower margin segments, and that's what's shining through. There is still some noise, I would say, in the quarter because of the freeze, that there was some impacts there.
But as you look at normalization, it's going to be more of what that mix dynamic is. All right, thank you. And then I wanted to maybe understand the volume impact that you saw in the specialty additives business. I think volumes there had to be down.
high teens or maybe even 20% year on year. Is there any way to break out how much of that's de-stocking, how much of its weakness in areas like construction and specialties, and how much of it is architectural paint demand? And is this voting weakness impacting your ability to hold pricing within that specialty additive space? Can it be doing business with other thing as opposed to as much to recognise fraternity people? From the very beginning of Katherine Spacey's article titled, screen clinicians are <expletive> bend
I think that the biggest change I would say is not the coding side. I mean we're managing through that. We have a good position in codings. What we continue to see is North American as an example, weaker DIY, the contractors still holding up around the world. You know Latin America continue to be strong, Asia we see the big customers gaining share.
as capital titans and the mid-sized companies get impacted. So coatings, there is noise, but it's not the biggest issue. The biggest part we saw was in our performance specialties, that's very fragmented. Most of the specialty additives, slowdown that we saw, especially in April , for example, the backend, the last 10 days we saw.
both personal care and specialty adage is the order intake really dropped. It was a lot of mid-sized customers. The distributors, the big distributors have already finished most of their de-stocking. It was regional players and now customers and it was more the mid-sized type customer base in other regions that we saw that. That aligns with the performance specialties. I mean it's mid-sized for us. They can be big customers but we saw you know we sell into like inks and automotive and it's just a broad base of
Please stand by for our next question.
Our next question comes from David Zieglitter at Deutsche Bank.
Thank you. Guillermo, in the de-stocking, do you think it will be done by the end of the June quarter? And is there any evidence of that in your May order books?
You know, I think, you know, our view would be that the stocking should be ending, you know, towards the sometime during the third quarter, at least the bigger segments. If you look at the most impacted ones, nutrition construction has two big segments. The nutrition dude talking started.
in RQ2 and it's continuing, you know, this will end eventually and I think there's only so much time that customers can't order. So I think that one, those should normalize. Digging construction.
We're waiting to see how it's most of our businesses in Europe . Summer is coming. Let's see how that develops. I think what we want to look at is that switch from the stocking to what's the consumer demand really going to be and how will that affect the inventory numbers. I think we'll see that transition in Q3 at some point in time. I think in the performance specialties part of specialty additives.
That's a broader based issue. I think that one, for us, smaller volumes, mid-sized customers, even if it's a large company and automotive or in some of these other areas, they're smaller for us. So those types of adjustments probably will not be long lasting, but it could take a month or two.
Can you discuss the price-cost tailwind you saw in the current quarter and the cadence of how that might increase in the back half of the year?
So we're holding on pricing, we're seeing pressures in certain areas in intermediates as an example. We're still holding up versus historic levels, but BDO has come down and we're managing through some of the other intermediates. In some of our lower end segments.
We're managing that volume price dynamic, nutrition and things of that, those types of segments. But overall we continue to hold up on the core. If you look at raw materials, it's improving across the board but it's not all coming down. If you look at cellulose, it'll get a little bit more UCSwhgeneric and not strong plastic. So are the
continues to be stable. It hasn't really dropped significantly. Energy has improved. Butane has improved. The petrochemical side of the equation, which is a lot of those processed chemicals we use, EOPO, supposedly house that gets to grow. Mir? pattern
have improved a little bit. Caustic has improved but still is very high in Europe . It came from a peak, but it's still, I think, two times higher than historic level. So it's going to vary. I think we'll continue to see improvement as we move forward. As we said, in the inflation, we protected our margins.
with lower production volume. So I think there's gonna be a few months more of working that through in the market.
production volume. So I think there's going to be a few months more of working that through in the market. Thank you.
Thank you.
Amber, do we have additional questions? Our next question comes from John Roberts at Credit Suisse. John , your line is open.
Thank you. Are you seeing a divergence in the price for BDO that you use internally with the price for the BDO derivatives that you sell externally? So BDO, pricing, market prices, and that's a much more...
broad-based material going into many different segments has come down. Our transfer pricing internally has also come down. The intermediates, there is a linkage, but they're delinked right now in terms of supply-demand. Just based on the markets that we serve, which we're one of the few
merchant players in North America and Europe and targeting more segments that are in-region sourcing the lithium ion battery.
players in North America and Europe and we're targeting more segments that are in region sourcing, the lithium ion battery being a big segment for us.
Secondly, could you give us an update on the M&A environment? It looks like you beefed up your capabilities there recently.
We will continue to work through all this inventory, the stocking, I think the longer term dynamics for each of our segments have not changed. Our innovation focus, pharma, oral solid dose and in...
Injectables continues. If you look at personal care, you saw some of the things, all of the natural, the shift of technologies that are happening has not changed. And in the coding side, expanding our portfolio, I think both organically, you'll hear more later in this year, we'll have a little bit more focus on innovation and some of the new platforms that...
there is going to be opportunities. That's why we are making sure that we're very balanced in our capital allocation. We'd rather use the resources that we have to do both on M&A than to build inventory to drive short-term financial results.
I don't think it's appropriate. We can create much more value with disciplined investment of our capital. And I think there are going to be opportunities and the valuations should be improving in this environment.
Well, and also, John , just as a reminder, we're also investing organically in our pharma business as well. I mean, while we look for M&A opportunities, we're also expanding both our Clucel and Benecyl.
footprint at existing facilities to increase capacity. Those businesses continue to do really well. So it's gonna continue to be a balanced approach. We're not favoring one over the other. We wanna actually be very balanced in all of that. And you should continue to expect us to do so. Thank you. Please hold for our next question.
Our next question comes from Lawrence Alexander at Jefferies. Good morning. What are you seeing in terms of the cadence of client inquiries about new projects and what they're telling you about their R&D budgets? Has any of the…
the chalkiness of past few quarters had any impact on the interest in pursuing new R&D projects with you or new development projects with you. Do you just talk about what the kind of cadence of incoming activity is like? I would split it in two groups. I mean the format is very...
a lot with the main primary pharma as well as generic producers. An injectable portfolio continues to grow. So we're very happy in the pharma side. I would say in the personal care and in the specialty additive side, the innovation hasn't slowed down interest commitment. I mean.
personal care, all our customers have made big commitments in terms of their switchover of technology. So that has not changed. I do think in in in 2022 and into this year maybe some of the short-term focus has been more in reformulating, looking at cost, looking at alternative raw materials last year. So there has been a little bit of noise and maybe...
be, if anything, a better return on capital for you because you have basically the solutions in the library and you're differentiated that way? Or is it just too competitive in some other aspects? And then just on the pharma side, if biotech funding ever comes back,
or when it comes back at scale. Do you have parts of your business that would materially benefit from that? Or you just sort of two downstream? Okay. Well let me start with the last question. We would benefit if you look at a lot of the biotech. Most in the oral solid dose and injectables. A lot of the...
some of the mRNA applications. Lipids have been the big focus area. A lot of companies looking at delivering some of these new drugs using some of these polyresorbable polymer so that they can go to higher use levels. So there's a lot of interest working, not just you know uh.
RNA, new cancer drugs, things of that nature with our customers. We've expanded into the animal health, also working with customers there to maybe accelerate some of the developments in some of those segments. So a lot of activity that I think is exciting for us. Equally, I would say in the oral solid dose, the big change would be can they start delivering some of these new biologics in oral form.
and we see opportunities for new technologies there and we're working with some customers on that front. I think in the first part of your question on the reformulation, we have a pretty big portfolio. So on reformulation, we're always there with our customers. A lot of our regional, we have a very strong regional lab footprint. So we're working with them in reformulating their work to optimize.
their formulations to replace raw materials that were in shortage. On ours or anybody else, they have to rebalance formulations when they do that. And that's part of the sort of the innovation process in personal care. In personal care you have two innovation activities. One, developing the new ingredients.
and introducing them, working with the central groups in our customers so that they approve them and...
and incorporate them in their core list of ingredients that the regional labs can formulate into new products. So we work both at that cutting edge innovation side, but then we work with them also on the formulation side, enabling those new ingredients and the old ingredients into their optimized new and improved formulations type activities. So we do both.
Okay, great. Thank you. Please hold for our next question.
Our next question comes from Jeffrey Zakoskas at JP Morgan. Thanks very much.
Our next question comes from Jeffrey Zakoskas at JP Morgan. Thanks very much.
Have you changed your idea of cash flows from operation for the year or free cash flows and that your cash flow for the first six months is pretty minimal?
Let me make a comment and Kevin you can put a little bit more colour. I think the cash flow impacts last year and into the first part. Inventories, this is a whole issue of inventory reset, has been a big use of cash with inflation last year.
So we've seen that as we move forward. That's one of the reasons we are taking actions. The world we're applying our cash right now has been...
the CapEx that we're investing, that Kevin talked about earlier in the call on HEC, ClueCell, Benesel, Aquaflow, so these higher end segments that we're doing. The inventory has been a use of cash, and that's one of the things that we don't want that to continue. And we've also done some of the share we purchased. But Kevin, I don't know if you wanna give any other color on the cash flow and the outlook cash flow. Yeah, recast flow always tends to be stronger in the second half of the year. That's when we normalize.
operating income in intermediates and solvents.
downward or upward or flat? The trend clearly has softened in the intermediate segment. We don't sell a lot of BDO. In our total segments, BDO pricing has come down. Our transfer pricing is unbounded, although our
internally has come down. So that's sort of a little bit of a pocket switch in terms of it'll benefit our downstream at the expense of intermediates and we're seeing that. We don't sell a lot of BDO, but in this BDO we sell, we have seen the price erosion. I think as the market reopens.
That goes into high volume segments and fibers and polyurethanes and things of that nature. So it's just where we put our swing volume. It's not the core of what we do. The core areas for us is the NMP and the BLO and that's really a lot of it is going into lithium-ion battery. There's a huge investment going in in the US and Europe . We like it taking corrupted Uh
A lot of that, you know, so people are buying a lot more. It has slowed down. People have taken some inventory corrections in the space. But if you look at 2024, when the new capacity comes in, this is really a lot of investment that's going on for 2024 and 2025 in both regions as a lot of this investment to, for the energy transformation of both Europe and the US. That sort of feeds into that. So we're one of the big suppliers there. We're well positioned.
And we have delinked our pricing. They're not totally separated and NMP and VLO will be more volatile than our other parts of our portfolio, but they're not tracking BDO at this point in time. They're tracking independently based on their own dynamics.
linked our pricing. They're not totally separated and NMP and VLO will be more volatile than our other parts of our portfolio but they're not tracking BDO at this point in time. They're tracking independently based on their own dynamics. Great, thank you very much.
Thank you for your questions. At this time, I would like to turn it back to Guillermo Onovo, Chairman and CEO , for closing remarks. Great. Amber, thank you so much and thank you everybody for your questions and your interest. We will be on the road over the coming weeks. Hopefully, we will get a chance to meet many of you and answer other questions.
But we appreciate your interest and look forward to seeing you soon. Thank you. Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.
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