Q2 2023 Sonoco Products Company Earnings Call
I'll see you next time.
Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the second quarter 2023 Sonoco Earnings Conference call.
At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session.
To ask a question during the session, you'll need to press star 1 1 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hint is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star 1 1 again.
Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I'd now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Lisa Weeks, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Last evening, we issued a news release highlighting our financial performance for the second quarter, and we prepared a presentation that we will reference during this call. The press release and presentation are available online under the Investor Relations section of our website at sonoco.com.
As a reminder, during today's call, we will discuss a number of forward-looking statements based on current expectations, estimates, and projections. These statements are not guaranteed at future performance and are subject to certain risks and uncertainties.
Therefore, actual results may differ materially. Please take a moment to review the forward-looking statement on page two of the presentation.
Additionally, today's presentation includes the use of non-GAAP financial measures, which management believes provides useful information to investors about the company's financial condition and results of operations.
Further information about the company's use of non-GAAP financial measures, including definitions as well as reconciliations to GAAP measures, is available under the Investor Relations section of our website.
For today's call, however, will begin by covering a summary of second quarter 23 performance. Rob will then review our detailed financial results for the quarter, and along with Roger Fuller, we'll discuss our guidance update for the full year 2023. How does will then provide closing comments followed by a Q&A session. If you will turn to slide four in our presentation.
I will now turn the call over to our CEO , Howard Coker. Thank you, Lisa, and good morning to everyone. I just wanted to start by acknowledging the strong performance in cash flows that's been noted against the backdrop of a highly volatile environment. I will take you through the details, but what I'll tell you is that...
For the second quarter, net sales for $1.7 billion, EBITDA was $275 million, and adjusted earnings per share for $1.38. Most of our businesses or businesses were at or above expectations for the quarter, due to commercial and operational excellence and productivity and providence. The third quarter, the second quarter, was $1.38. Most of our businesses or businesses were at or above expectations for the quarter, due to commercial and poverty.
The downstream impact is reflected in our industrials business, where we provide products serving the broader manufacturing sector and packaging used in household staples, discretionary goods, and construction. Buying is slowing down and lower volumes are the result. However, even though through these turbulent times, we were able to deliver 16 percent of the adjusted EBITDA in the quarter.
Our hard work over the past few years on the portfolio, structural simplification, operational improvements, and commercial excellence have enabled more stable profitability than in prior economic slowdowns in our history.
While we're not satisfied with these results, our excellent cash flow and EBITDA margins reinforce the durability of our underlying profitability and integrity of our strategy.
And with that, I'll turn the call over to Ross for more details on the quarter and our 23rd outlook. Great, now its time for a quick quick one call frommage
Thanks, Howard. I'll begin on slide 6 with a review of key financial results for the second quarter. Please note that all results discussed will be adjusted and all growth metrics will be on a year-over-year basis unless otherwise stated. The GAPs and on-GAP EPS reconciliation can be found in the appendix of this presentation as well as in the press release.
and record results in possible.
A few businesses were blood-oxpectations and meaningfully impacted the consolidated results, mainly metal packaging and consumer, and industrial North America.
Consolidated sales decreased to 1.7 billion. The sales decrease was primarily driven by lower volumes due to inflationary pricing and de-stocking at our customers in retail, as well as index-based price decreases in metal packaging and industrial. Adjusted operating profit decreased to 211 million, and adjusted eva.decrease to 275 million.
Importantly, we maintained an above 16 percent adjusted EBITDA margin through continued focus on commercial and operational excellence, as well as long-term cost controls associated with our business transformation program. The earnings per share decreased to $1.38.
non-operating factors impacted EPS negative seven cents due to higher interest rates on floating rate debt.
The Sales Bridge on slide 7 provides the primary drivers for revenue growth in the quarter.
Volume X was negative 190 million or negative 9.9 percent. This volume decrease was anticipated and was in the low to mid single digits on most businesses.
We continue to have active dialogue with customers and have been able to mitigate low volumes with operational and cost actions in most businesses.
Two notable exceptions to this were the disrupted demand in a handful of customers in metal packaging and lower than anticipated demand in industrial North America.
The fixed cost structures of these businesses make them more sensitive to volume uncertainty, and this had a meaningful impact on the consolidated results. Acquisition to the vestitures also had a minor negative impact on sales, and were accounted for in volume on the brist, excluding acquisitions in the vestitures, volume X was negative 9.7%. Price was negative 15, though.
Our pricing performance continues to reflect strategic pricing efforts associated with our commercial excellence strategy, manage selling to value, and managing contracts to recover inflation. Our pricing performance continues to reflect strategic pricing efforts associated with
Most businesses achieved marginally positive price performance in the quarter. This was also a meaningful index-based price decrease in metal packaging and consumer, and the pay for businesses globally and industrial.
So I met with negative 65 million as operations were impacted by the pre-use to discuss impact of inflationary pricing and de-stocking at our customers in retail. Price calls is positive 12 million in the quarter. That's strategic pricing and purchasing also has a predicted impact of 27 million of metal price over that.
Other included higher depreciation and positive FFS and improved operating profit of $4 million in the quarter.
Slide eight has an overview of our segment performance for the course.
Consumer sales decreased to $924 million. Plushable sales grew mid-single digits, and rigid paper container sales grew low single digits due to strong price and generally resilient volume mix.
Sales and metal packaging decreased due to tin plate based price pass throughs and inventory management driven volume decreases at a handful of customers in both food and aerosol.
Consumer operating profits decreased to $95 million due primarily to lower volume and negative price falls.
Flexibles had record operating profit, and rigid paper containers grew operating profit more than 15%. Camera operating profit margin decreased to 10.3%.
Consumer cost price cost was negative 20 million. The strong price calls and rigid paper containers and flexibles was offset by the impact of metal price overlap.
Excluding metal packaging, the consumer segment would have grown operating profit over 30%, and operating profit margins would have been 15%.
Metal packaging is performing well and a disrupted demand environment and has improved results from the year we purchased the business when adjusted for metal price over a lot. We're ahead of playing on our synergy projects and we believe we've improved the competitive position of the business as we continue to invest in higher-term projects.
packaging is performing well in a disrupted demand environment and has improved results from the year we purchased the business when adjusted for metal price overlap. We're ahead of plan on our synergy projects and we believe we've improved the competitive position of the business as we continue to invest in higher-term projects. Turning to industrial. There's a very schm 1200 more on Moonlight in32 so that's really great to be part of
Industrial sales decreased to $585 million. Industrial volumes decreased 15% due to lower demand in all key markets and geographies.
This decrease was most acute in North America and Europe , though all regions were impacted. operating profit decreased to $87 million as positive price costs was offset by lower volumes and negative productivity from de-laboraging.
Notably, this was only 7 million less than the record results in the first quarter of 2023.
The industrial segment achieved positive price calls of $21 million.
as commercial excellence activities continue to align price with the value our products create.
Operating profit margin increased to 14.9%, a meaningful improvement from previous cyclical lows.
All other sales were flat at $197 million, and operating profit increased 73% to $29 million.
Moving to slide nine, our capital allocation framework is aligned with our business strategy to drive value creation for our shareholders. Our priority is to allocate capital to high return investments in our core businesses to drive growth and improve efficiency.
We remain focused on increasing the dividend, which at present is 51 cents per share on a quarterly basis, by a greater than 3% average yield over the past 12 months. After capital investments in the dividend, we prioritize investments in a creative M&A aligned with our long-term strategy.
balanced against our strategic priority of maintaining strong liquidity and access to capital. We ended the second quarter with over 1 billion in total liquidity.
And the second quarter, which integrated $251 million of operating cash flow and invested $178 million in capital expenditures.
On slide 10, we have our guidance update.
Our Q3 EPS guidance is $1.25 to $1.35.
We are affirming our full year 2023 operating cash flow guidance to $925 million to $970 million. We anticipate closing the RTS and Westrock paper mill acquisition this year, and this is not in our forecast. Now Roger will discuss the 2023 output. Thanks, Rob. If you'll please turn this slide up for our view of segment performance drivers for the third quarter of 2023. First, with the consumer segment for the third quarter, we expect continued strong performance in our global rigid paper containers from both existing and new products as sustainability driven initiatives are driving a pipeline of new growth opportunities. And on a positive note, select European customers are launching our all-paper products.
technology. We also expect continued strong performance in our flexible packaging business. The team is doing just a phenomenal job expanding this business with new and existing customers and the productivity numbers are very impressive. These drivers will sustain flexible performance into the next quarter.
We anticipate mental volumes improving sequentially in the third quarter as we enter pack season.
Both food and aerosol can volumes are below our original expectations for the second half to the inventory to stocking that Howard and Rob have already referenced.
Even with lower volumes, metal profitability will improve from higher sequential volumes and the reduced impact of metal price overlap.
Lastly, expect seasonally soft volumes in a rigid plastic food business where volume was also a challenge in the second quarter.
Turning to the industrial segment, we expect volumes to decline sequentially from the second quarter and remain soft globally through the second half of the year in both our paper and converted products.
All geographies are suffering from persistent demand weakness across our core industrial markets for paper, film cores, and textiles.
Our customers are deciding lower end market demand and customer do stocking as factors for these declines.
Protective packaging for consumer white goods was up 5% versus a relatively soft demand in 2022. We're also expanding this paper-based protective packaging into the European market.
With lower volumes, productivity improvements remain challenging from deleveraging. We continue to aggressively manage variable expenses as a countermeasure to minimize the impacts from the lower volumes.
And all other businesses would continue to have net stable demand across this collection of business. With some positive seasonal impacts and note for vaccine shippers. And our thermos late products business.
For managing price costs, resin prices remain stable to declining, so minimal impacts to all other businesses from resin in the third quarter.
And finally, as we discussed before, we continue to invest in high return capital and all other business productivity. And run these businesses as efficiently as we can. We expect to also see the benefits of these improvements into the next quarter. and beyond.
So, overall, in the consumer segment in the third quarter, we have seasonal sales improvement. And the all other segment is expected to continue to perform well. In our industrial segment, we're suffering through a really challenging demand environment. Thanks to our team for their diligence in managing these tough times.
as we will see greater benefits in industrial when volumes return, as evidenced by margin performance in industrial in Q2. And with that Howard, I'll get back to you.
Where we are relative to reshaping the portfolio. I'll just tell you it is active. We are managing a funnel of accretive acquisitions and plans for non-corp divestitures over the next few years. As you know, the deal environment is not great right now, and any future selling or buying of assets or businesses will be based on timing for the best value for our shareholders. On the operating model side, I think our EBITDA results prove we are operating well in choppy waters right now. We have the plans, capabilities, and disciplines.
operating this market and we have durable processes to manage and align calls to opportunities and challenges.
Given our expectations for market demand, we have amplified our ongoing discipline in expense management.
As Rob highlighted, we're continuing to generate solid cash in the business, and our investment grade balance sheet is strong.
We raised our dividend last quarter, and we will remain focused on the best ways to generate returns for our shareholders.
And finally, our commitments to the SGA sustainability initiatives are unwavering and remain wholly aligned to the core values of the companies.
I'll just close with this. The hallmark of Seneca was to serve our customers whenever, wherever, and however they need us to be, and they know we will be there to help them navigate the future as we have for COVID and a number of other challenges.
Actions we have taken over the past three or four years have resulted in a stronger operating model to handle times of uncertainty.
We will continue to adapt and evolve to build a better San Diego now and in the future.
And with that, and at this time, we'll be happy to entertain any questions you may have.
As a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question at this time, please press star 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.
To withdraw your question, please press star 1 1 again.
Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster.
Our first question comes from a line of Gansham Punjabi with Robert W. Baird.
Hey guys, good morning. You know, there's obviously a lot going on with comparisons of the impact of COVID, but you're now around 10% EBIT margins for the consumer segment, which basically matches segment margins from back in 2019. Just curious, Howard, you know, and Roger, is this the right baseline for margins on a go-forward basis?
On the consumer side, gotcha.
On the consumer side, gotcha. Yes, exactly.
No, I think if you look at the impact and if you go back to what we've well publicized with the metal issues that we had to absorb.
Really here today through the 1st, 2 months of the 2nd quarter. Really brought those down so actually we expect to be at the north of the 10% well, north of the 10% on the go forward basis once we clear out some of these 1 off type events.
Okay, and then on the industrial side, I mean, you know, I think you mentioned 15% decline in volumes in the segment. You know, obviously, the end markets are weaker and that's playing a major role in that. I'm just trying to reconcile that versus the operating margins you're delivering in that segment, which are quite a bit higher. Relative to your historical baseline and just your thoughts as it relates to the sustainability.
Of that margin threshold. Yeah, I got some, you know. Not not to go back to too far, but talk about the last 3 or 4 years, but really the last 5 or 6 years, we have really put a lot of capital towards improving.
The performance of our industrial business on a global basis, and I won't talk through. All of the projects that and opportunities that we pursued over those periods of time.
But the 1 I will is project horizon. What I'll say about horizon is.
You can say, look on the surface with volumes where they are. We have not been able to take advantage of the productivity associated with that investment. But on the other hand, it also took us out of the corrugated medium market where we are now integrated.
And a very small machine and scope of the rest of the industry, which. You think about previous times where we solve similar type slowdowns, the encoded. Or even all the way back to the 8 or 9 time period. We self help ourselves by 15% of our North American.
absolutely no no
Out outlet for that, that, that capacity using that only as a reference. To the, to the number of projects that we've undertaken to improve the overall durability of our industrial business.
Perfect, thank you.
Our next question comes from a line of Gabe Haight with Wells Fargo.
Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. One was something we kind of picked up in the trade publications here in the past week or so, talking about URB imports into the US. I don't really recall this.
something as a topic we've read about maybe in the last 10 years or something like that. So just curious, Howard, do you view this more of a function of kind of local demand patterns that producers are maybe experiencing in their local markets? And then perhaps something maybe that you expect to persist.
for whatever reason. And just curious if you're moving anything around your own system, just based maybe on an ability or cost of OCC. Hey Gabe, this is Roger. You know, imports of URB into the U.S. is really nothing new. I know it was picked up in the publication, but...
There have been imports coming in for many years that did stop during coded because of the high cost of logistics and transportation. And it's picked back up now, as the cost of containers return to more reasonable level. So. So, that's new and as far as our system, you know, we represented in every region.
So we really don't move board from region to region simply because we don't need to do that. But when volumes are soft like they are now, seeing board come in from on the East Coast from places like Italy or on the West Coast from Asia is not an unusual event. We've dealt with that for many years.
Okay, and then I guess maybe a question going into 24, I mean, or to the extent that we see some of these kind of choppy order patterns or maybe softer than what we'd expect, demand, can you talk about just I guess your ability, I mean, to variableize the cost structure or...
I mean, you guys have been fairly active to drive margins higher here of late on the commercial side. Maybe how demand dependent some of your productivity is that you talk about getting on an annual basis and if there's anything kind of outside of pattern that you could do as things are soft right now. Yeah, we're obviously taking the necessary right.
And certainly on the fixed side as well.
We look at that encouraging...
Encouragement I have about what's going on right now, we said all along as well. Say all along last.
Period that we are in a better position today to handle on certain times as we're in right now. And it just makes me feel very positive as we.
We'll see hopefully soon!
The man start to pick back up and the ability to leverage that.
Beyond the margin profiles that we're looking at right now. Um, yes, calls for a really positive. Viewpoint as volumes to recover.
Thank you. Good luck.
Our next question comes from the line of Mark Weintraub with Seaport Research Partners.
Thank you. First can you just kind of update us in your guidance how much is the metal price overlap? Is it still kind of in the 40 million region or has that changed?
Hey, Mark, this is Rob. For the quarter, metal price overlap was negative $27 million, and so that includes what we incurred this year plus the year-over-year impact. And in Q1, as you remember, that was $86 million. And that will be the trigger for this last quarter.OPS
largely completed, if not totally completed, for the year at this point. So the full year metal price overlap will be $113 million.
Okay. And so you cut your guidance on EBITDA by 80 million. So could you kind of walk through what the biggest components of that reduction would have reflected?
Yeah, so it was a, you know, a bond of 15% decrease in the EBITDAG God. If you think about that by segment, you know, consumer is gonna be down, we're expecting between 15 and 20%. You know, largely driven by the metal price overlap, which we just discussed.
Then also some meaningfully negative performance in plastic foods, which has been down.
Dude is a perimeter store business, which we're working through right now. And Dostryo is gonna be relatively flat actually year-to-year with some positive price costs and volume mix kind of offsetting each other. Other will be up 40 to 50%. And so that should bridge you to the total impact for the year.
Okay and just to clarify in terms of what the Delta versus your prior expectations.
Where was that concentrated?
It's really an industrial. I think that when we originally set up the view for the year, we saw that the industrial would only really have these negative, these low volume environment for the first half, and that we see some moderation in the second half. What we're seeing really with our customers is the
People have, they haven't seen it this low for this long. We are at kind of 2009 kind of levels in terms of volumes from an industry perspective and a utilization perspective. And so there has been this expectation that it has to recover sooner than later.
And our current view is that it won't recover in 2023. Right, and it really is striking because it had fallen quite a bit even in the second half of last year. And are you getting a better sense as to how much of this may have been a function of the volume having been inflated during...
No, we don't think that there was inflated volumes at all during COVID. Actually, there was a modest lift down. We think that this is really just completely stocking of that industry and some disruption associated with inventories.
Okay, super. Just one last quick one. If I could just, RTS, any update? You did say you anticipated it to close by the end of this year. I believe there's a second request. Any color you can give us in terms of how that's progressing?
Yeah, Marcus Howard, we expect to be closed late on quarter, on a fourth quarter.
Okay, thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Anthony Patinari with Citi.
Good morning. This is Greg on for Anthony.
My first question is on the pack season. So we've heard comments from others around maybe some inclement weather, kind of a lackluster harvest season impacting this year. So I'm wondering from your perspective, how would you characterize this year's ag harvest and pack season relative to prior years and then relative to your expectations heading in, and acknowledging the harvest is totally out of your control.
Is it possible to quantify the impact of weather or adverse harvests on food can vols in the second quarter? And to what degree a poor harvest is factored into your failure guidance?
Yeah, I would say if you really got deeper into our metal volumes were pretty similar to what CMI data.
The public data represented, but then when you really dig into it.
It's down to a couple of discreet customers. On the food can side, and on the aerosol side as well. And if you take those out.
You will actually flatten it up.
What we're seeing from a tax-saving perspective, what we're seeing from one in particular is that things are starting to pick up now. and expect that
They should start normalizing as we enter to the third quarter. Others, the other couple related to conscious choices of price of rebellion, but also we're seeing that the volume is starting to return there as well.
Similarly, not path related, but on the aerosol side. Saying as we enter the 3rd quarter, July does not make a quarter, but we are seeing remarkable improvements. And a couple of aerosol accounts that that brought us down. So. Probably speaking, and Ron talked to this, we're extremely pleased with the performance of the business, the integration.
I think quarter phenomenon is not being one of any concern at all. And we feel like we are starting. We are starting to see in July . And our customers are telling us that that we are making a positive turn at this point in time. So.
on as not being one of any concern at all and we feel like we are starting, we are starting to see in July and our customers are telling us that we are making a positive turn at this point in time. So hope that helps Greg.
Thank you, Mr. Coker. Yeah, that's very helpful. I appreciate the color. And just my second question and last question is around price, I guess, across the entire Snockel portfolio. So we've seen weaker volumes now for a few quarters, de-stocking.
Yeah, you know, let me talk about the industrial side to start with, you know, which is a bit of a head scratcher for us. We've always looked at if you think about what our industrial business, you know, we supply at the beginning. Of of really industrial and consumer supply chains and historically what we would have seen is that. As the industrial businesses slow. We see an adverse or the opposite happening on the consumer side that starting to pick up and. This is kind of unique situation that we're in right now. We're industrial.
If you're looking at the data and data along, you would say that the global economies are in pretty big trouble. But that is not what we're hearing, but it's certainly what we're feeling. So.
Question mark from our perspective is what is going on here for for textiles films. Major markets to be down on a global basis as they are understandably in Europe where they think acknowledged in a recession. We understand it, but we're not we have not thus far seen the pickup on the consumer side. And I think that relates to your question. Greg. Is how many customers and we are seeing customers saying, hey, look, we're taking price over volume at this point in time, but we're starting to see cracks in that. That we are seeing more promotion activity. Our customers are telling us that. That we should.
I should see some improvements going forward on the consumer side. The industrial side is the real head scratcher right now. But I will say again that the position that we put ourselves in in times like this allows us to perform extremely well even though the volumes aren't where we would like them to be. Yeah, Mr. Grosjean, I would just add we have built in some more decompression in the industrial...
That makes sense. Appreciate the color. Our next question comes from the line of Cleve Rookert with UBS. Well, good morning. Thanks for taking our questions. I just have one follow-up on the guidance and really – well, a couple questions there. But firstly, how did market conditions develop in the second quarter? It sounds like maybe the plan had some improvement in industrial in the second half built in that didn't materialize.
curious to understand, like did market conditions weaken in the second quarter? Or was it just those lack of orders that didn't come through and now, you know, you should have lost some visibility into the second half?
Yes, this is Roger. In industrial, yes. We were, as we exited the first quarter, we expected some improvement in volumes in industrial in the second half of the year. While we're hearing from our customers now, we just believe that's simply not going to happen. As you look at sequentially, the third quarter is going to
of, frankly, but again, we were expecting something inventory. I'd worked this health out of the system and we'd see some pickup. Now on our guidance, we're not seeing that in the second half of the year. I think that was the biggest volume change from our previous guidance to where we are today.
Okay, so it's a sort of a lack of improvement, not necessarily.
a weakening of market conditions.
Correct. Correct. Correct. I'll see you're up this always slower than the third quarter. So again, tele-industrial is down about 4% versus the second.
Yeah, and then so just in the industrial business, you know, what, what are your lead times there in that business? And I'm just kind of curious, like, how quickly do you think market conditions could could turn around and improve? You know, is there like, it looks like the guidance if I just take the midpoints.
Q4 is kind of the low point on EPS.
it sounds like that's conservative, but I'm just wondering, is there potential to outperform that or do you kind of have visibility into the end of the year now? And if you do get the orders that you're looking for, they'll be coming in 2024.
Yeah, they, you know, we don't normally carry doors, but backlogs just the nature of our business.
You know, what I'd say is right now. You know, we're, we're basing our forecast on on the best information that we have.
You know, 1 of the best out of that that I can look at is what we're hearing and across the North American. Economic situation right now being more on a positive trend than most people fall is that truly sustainable. You would certainly think that the business that we're in, which is the really the point.
We should be, we should benefit from that. So. We don't have that crystal ball in front of us. Our customers can only tell us what they know at this point in time. And so, yes, we are continuing to drag out the. The current.
The demand profile that we're saying through to the end of the year, could that change? Not sure about that.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's very clear. I'll turn it over. Thanks for taking the questions guys appreciate it. As a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question at this time, please press star 1 1 on your touch tone telephone.
Our next question comes from George Staffos with Bank of America. Hi everyone, good morning. How are you? Thanks for the details. Can you hear me OK? Yep, George. So happy August . I guess the first question I had if we look at the...
sequential earnings downtick 3Q versus 2Q? And Roger, I think you covered this already on some of the other questions. Is it roughly 50-50, would you say, between the inflation and the volume downtick you're seeing in industrial, would that be, or how would you frame it for us from the 2Q number to the 3Q guide? That's close, George. I think that's...
winding their products that we cover have started to see some sequential improvement.
Still down year on year, but seeing improved trends 3Q versus 2Q. And yet what you're relaying here.
is industrial that's still pretty weak. So how should we reconcile that? What are we missing in terms of that interpretation and which end markets look particularly weak?
sequentially 3Q versus 2Q. Yes, really. Two four industrial.
Yeah, right, George. This is Roger. Textiles and film are the weakest as we look forward. We have seen some recovery in the paper side, more on the corrugated side, not so much on printing and writing. But, you know, what we're hearing primarily from textiles and film, really globally, they're seeing little recovery and I think it goes back to inventory and...
that color there Roger. Last next question I should say and then we'll have one other and we'll turn it over.
In metal, can you give us?
what you believe the year on your volume impact to EBIT or EBITDA will be versus 2022. We have the metal overlap as you called it over $100 million between 1Q and 2Q.
What is the year on year impact from volume, from metal and consumer ebit for 23 versus 22?
Hey, George, it'll be between $40 million and $60 million this year, and that's volume and the associated productivity with it.
Okay, and then my last question.
is when you sit back and you look at your volumes and that impact relative to what's coming out of CMI, what gives you comfort that you are, and I haven't sort of mapped this, so perhaps this would be exactly the same, but what gives you comfort that you are not.
losing share said differently, could you give us, you know, on a year to date basis
what your volume was by key end market in metal this year versus last year. Thank you guys and I'll turn it over.
Yeah, I'll have that in front of me. George food down about 10% aerosols around 14%. But again, when you dig into that, it relates to
Really a couple of customers in both segments of the business and their stories behind. 1, being more inventory carrier. And the other 1 related to.
Price versus volume decisions that customers are making.
Well, again, I'm repeating myself, but that was a 2nd quarter phenomenon that we see pulling out of as we enter the 3rd quarter. More normalized volumes.
But that was a 2nd quarter phenomenon that we see pulling out of as we entered the 3rd quarter. More normalized volumes.
And, you know, I'm taking terms of your question about share. Uh, we, we have not lost any share of that that I'm aware of at all. Um, certainly nothing material. And the market reception has been extremely positive. Uh, as some of those under this business last year, so.
We look at this as just a, a, a 1 off if you will for the quarter. And that we're going to be pulling ourselves out of it. Our customers are telling us that's exactly what the case is. And we're again excited about the market reception. That we received us for.
Thank you, Howard. I'll turn it over and try to get back in queue.
Thank you, Howard. I'll turn it over and try to get back in queue. Right. Thanks.
That concludes today's question and answer session. I'd like to turn the call back to Lisa Weeks for closing remarks.
Thank you for joining us today. If you have any follow-up questions, we'll be around after the call, or we can follow up with a scheduled call later. We look forward to seeing you on the road through the late summer and fall until we share our third quarter results in early November . Thank you to everyone and have a great day.
This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.