Q4 2023 Paycor HCM Inc Earnings Call
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to Paycor's fourth quarter and fiscal year twenty twenty three earnings call.
Speaker 1: At this time, all participants turn to listen-only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation.
Speaker 1: If anyone should require operator assistance during a conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad.
Speaker 1: As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Speaker 1: I would now like to turn the call over to Rachel White, Vice President of Investor Relations.
Speaker 2: Good afternoon and welcome to Paycor's earnings call for the fourth quarter and fiscal year 2023, which ended on June 30th. On the call with me today are Raoul Zillar Jr., Paycor's Chief Executive Officer, and Adam Ante, Paycor's Chief Financial Officer. Our financial results can be found in our press release issued today, which is available on the investor relations section of our website.
Speaker 2: operations, and other matters. These statements are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions, and are based on management's current expectations as of today and may not be updated in the future. Therefore, these statements should not be relied upon as representing our views as of any subsequent date. We also will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures and key business metrics to provide additional information to investors.
Speaker 2: release on our website. With that I'll turn the call over to Raul.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Rachel, and thank you all for joining us to discuss Paycor's fourth quarter and full year results. Thank-you again.
Speaker 3: Revenue grew 26% for the quarter and 29% for the year, driven by solid execution against our strategic growth levers, namely expanding our sales coverage and increasing pepum. We are also expanding margins as we scale.
Speaker 3: and delivered nearly 400 basis points of improvement year over year while investing in capabilities that further differentiate Paycorn the market.
Speaker 3: I would like to take this opportunity to thank each of our associates for their role in contributing to these outstanding results.
Speaker 3: It may and remain strong for our modern innovative ATM solution that empowers leaders to unlock the potential of their people in business performance.
Speaker 3: Using our unrivaled talent tools, frontline leaders are improving employee engagement.
Speaker 3: which is increasing employee retention by 10% and helping drive better business outcomes.
Speaker 3: Our team has consistently executed against our go-to-market strategy. We expanded our sales force by 22% to approximately 560 sales associates.
Speaker 3: Most of our in-market sales tires have been in tier one cities.
Speaker 3: Increasing our Tier 1 sales coverage in the largest 15 cities in America from 28% to 36%.
Speaker 3: Sales coverage refers to the optimal number of prospects for seller, and we could effectively sell double or even triple the number of sellers we have today.
Speaker 3: Brokers remained an integral part of our go-to market motion and influence over 40% of our field booking this year.
Speaker 3: We continue to strategically shift up market where clients tend to purchase a more complete solution.
Speaker 3: And as a result, Avtele size continued to expand nicely this year.
Speaker 3: Our pipeline and win rates remain strong, and we are proud to announce a record to your four bookings performance.
Speaker 3: which was our highest quarter unrecorded.
Speaker 3: All these factors contributed to robust bookings growth of 23% year over year.
Speaker 3: We continue to expand our modern ACM suite by launching differentiated technology that powers people and performance.
Speaker 3: And the last year, LISPEPA increased $3 or 7% and now stands at $48, which equates to a peppy of $576.
Speaker 3: This month we introduced engage.
Speaker 3: which is a single platform to elevate how leaders communicate with and motivate their team.
Speaker 3: The new solution empowers leaders to share company news, communicate with teams, and recognize employees across both mobile and web applications.
Speaker 3: Further strengthening our suite of artificial intelligence solutions, we also launched an AI-mable job description generator.
Speaker 3: This offering strengthens our suite of artificial intelligence solutions, which includes pay course smart sourcing and predictive resignation.
Speaker 3: by merely providing a job title and required experience.
Speaker 3: The integrated solution will create compelling job descriptions, empowering leaders to attract and hire top talent faster than ever before.
Speaker 3: The robust development of our interoperability engine is a key differentiator of our modern H&M platform.
Speaker 3: We continue to lead the industry with the most extensive network of partners, deep two-way integrations and API activity points to meet our clients' unique business needs.
Speaker 3: In the last year, we added over 130 marketplace partners.
Speaker 3: and nearly doubled the number of API endpoints available in our system.
Speaker 3: For fiscal 24, we are going to continue to focus on execution.
Speaker 3: For us, that means continuing to increase sales coverage to capture share in the SMB space and expand PEPM with innovative solutions that empower frontline leaders.
Speaker 3: With that, I'll turn the call over to Adam to discuss our financial results in guidance.
Speaker 4: Thanks ROE. I'll discuss our fourth quarter and full year results and then share our outlook for the first quarter and next fiscal year. As a reminder, my comments related to certain financial measures are on a non-GAAP basis.
Speaker 4: We posted another strong quarter delivering total revenues of $140 million, a 26% increase year-over-year. Recurring revenue grew 18% year-over-year in line with our expectations and slightly lower than prior quarter growth due to a combination of an incredibly strong fourth quarter last year, moderating labor market growth, and foreign filing timing.
Speaker 4: For the fiscal year, total revenues were $553 million, increasing 29% year-over-year.
Speaker 4: Our revenue growth continues to be driven by new business wins and PEPLIM expansion. This year, our booking screwed 23% versus the prior year, setting us up nicely for continued strong revenue growth into physical 24. We also surpassed 2.5 million employees on our platform, up 8% over the prior year, with more than 30,000 customers. As we shift our portfolio up market and focus our resources on clients with
Speaker 4: continue to see moderation and employee growth in the micro-signet, while the number of employees in the mid-market and enterprise segments increase 9% year-a-rear.
Speaker 4: Net revenue retention increased to 100%, setting a new record, driven by gains from cross sale and pricing initiatives.
Speaker 4: Effective PEPM increased 11% year-over-year to just over $18 for the quarter. As we continue to expand our product suite, PEPM growth is driven by cross sales, pricing initiatives, and higher bundle adoption at the point of sale.
Speaker 4: This quarter, we recognize $11 million of interest income on average client funds of just over $1 billion at an effective rate of about 415 basis points.
Speaker 4: In addition to driving setting top line growth, we've also delivered consistent margin expansion as we continue to scale.
Speaker 4: Quarterly adjusts a gross profit margin, excluding depreciation and amortization, improved to 79.4%, nearly 300 basis points higher than last year. We continue to expand gross margins as we invest in our service model, and our customer support teams have done a great job in elevating the experience for our customers this year.
Speaker 4: Sales and marketing expense was $47 million, or 33.8% of revenue. Similar to levels a year ago, as we continue to invest in expanding our sales team to capture market share.
Speaker 4: On a gross basis, we invest $23 million in R&D, or 16.5% of revenue. Our team continues to efficiently deliver leader advancements to create value for our clients and expand our Pepperm opportunity, which is consistently expanded annually as we release new features, functionality, and new products that resonate with our customers.
GNA Expans was $21 million or 14.9% of revenue, an improvement of 100 basis points from the prior year. For the full year, GNA Expans as a percentage of recurring revenue improved 115 basis points over the prior year as we continue to scale the business.
While our primary objective remains sustainable 20% plus revenue growth, we intend to steadily expand margins as we scale the business. Quarterly adjusted operating income increased nearly 70% to $15 million, with margins of 11%, up nearly 275 basis points from 8.3% last year.
For the full year, adjusted operating income increased nearly 75% to $83 million. Up almost 400 basis points while continuing to make key investments in our sales and service organizations as well as track product innovation.
We also generated $19 million of adjusted free cash flow during the quarter, and $10 million for the year, achieving our target to be positive for the fiscal year. We've been on a journey to transform and scale the business over the last four years, so it's a great achievement in milestone for us. Our free cash flow margin was 14% this quarter, or an expansion of nine points year-to-year.
We expect free cash will margin to continue expanding faster than adjusted operating income as we scale the business. At the close of the quarter, our cash balance increased the $95 million with no debt.
Our outlook for fiscal 24 remains positive. First and foremost, we continue to see strength in the HCM demand environment. HCM is highly resilient as our value proposition is mission critical to attracting, paying, and retaining great talent.
Second, the labor market remains tight. Although growth has moderated, and we expect that to continue this fiscal year. Lastly, consistent with current market expectations, our outlook anticipates moderate Fed funds decreases in the second half of the fiscal year. Even with marginal declines in the Fed funds rate, we would expect to generate marginal, interesting, come revenue growth.
in fiscal 24. For the first quarter, we expect total revenues of between $138 and $140 million, or 18% growth at the high end of the range, and are just adopting income of between nine and $10 million.
For the full year, we expect revenues of $644 to $650 million, or 18% growth at the top end of the range. And we anticipate a just-for-operating income of $97 to $100 million.
I would also like to note that we do not plan to provide booking state of moving forward. At the time of the IPO, booking skates investors some insight into the success of sales as we re-accelerated the front end growth engine. Now we believe revenue growth is the most important metric to understand our success.
In summary, we are optimistic about our opportunity in HCM as we've ever been. Demand remains strong. Our innovative HCM solution that empowers leaders to build winning teams continues to win in the market. We are focused on execution, scaling the business, and driving margin expansion.
As a mission critical application still early in its transition to the cloud, we believe that there is significant runway for further growth in the $35 billion HCM market.
With that, we'll open the call for questions. Operator.
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Our first question comes from the line of Mark Murphy with JP Morgan. Please proceed with your question.
Hi, thanks for taking the questions. This is already on from Mark Murphy. First question is just on the head, when you guys are kind of expecting from the moderating growth in the labor market, anyway to kind of book in that or quantify that as we think about the four year guide. Thanks.
Yeah, I heard it. What we're seeing right now is that we're seeing sort of low single digit to no growth contribution from the labor market. And right now year over year for the quarter, you're looking at like a three to four point headwind. On the full year, we've sort of factored in the same level.
of contribution on the guidance. So low single digit to zero growth, sort of zero to 1% growth, contribution from the labor market, which will be a little bit less of a headwind over on the full year, something to the tune of a couple points headwind versus 23 growth.
Thank you, that's super helpful. And then just in terms of that kind of side of things, with the living market getting a little bit, a little more moderation, are you seeing any differences in the buying patterns for customers among like your talent solutions and talent suite?
No, we actually continue to see outstanding attach rates or attach rates are actually still increasing, modestly quarter over quarter. So, we haven't seen any difference in any of the buying dynamics, length of sales cycle.
price paid or attach rates. Perfect. Thank you. I'll start back in the queue. Yeah. Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Gabriela Borgus with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed with your question.
Hi, this is Kevin on for the every other thanks for the question. Maybe just one on kind of stellar hiring expectations for 24, particularly in the context of a guy that's showing a little bit of a deceleration. So just curious how you're thinking about stellar hiring as we head into 24. Thanks.
You know, I think we feel comfortable with, you know, our previous guidance that we think 20% head count growth is something that we're targeting. Now that can flex down a few points or up a few points based upon demand in the marketplace, based upon seller availability, based upon churn.
So there's a lot of different factors, but I would say we still look at this like there's a significant market opportunity. We have really strong wind rates and we believe the opportunity to continue to win share is available.
Adam, maybe one on the guide, particularly the operating margin guide for Q1. I think that implies maybe a little bit of a decline year over year. I think the full year implies some improvement. So just curious on kind of maybe the seasonality of operating expenses throughout the year and any moving pieces we should be able to get.
like we had discussed. And as we look into 24, we still feel really positive about the momentum, we feel positive about the demand environment, and we're running into a little bit of those headwinds here in Q1. But on the full year, you know, we see this as an opportunity to continue to expand both margins and continue to grow.
And so it's a little bit of just hitting the pressure of what we're seeing on the Q1 growth. And we'll continue to manage that in on the full year. We do feel good about the operating income margin growth and expansion that we're going to see there, as well as the free cash flow margin expansion, which should be a little bit faster.
Thank you both. Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Samad Samana with Jeffries. Please proceed with your question.
Great, good evening. Hi, Joan, thanks for taking my questions. Maybe Juan, first for you. You mentioned getting more success upmarket, the average number of employees per customer has melted up. Is that changing maybe the type of customer or the mix of bookings and how does that maybe changing who you're hiring as far as the sales organization?
is deploy the majority of our resources in the field, targeting customers with greater than 100 employees. And so we continue to see our average employee size grow. And at this point in time, we haven't seen a need for differentiated salesperson.
low thousands and effectively with our current sales organization. So if we were going to push higher in the future into that 5,000 plus range, it may suggest a different type and enterprise type team. We're not there. From that perspective, we're going to continue.
et cetera. So we feel really good about the opportunity and the talent solutions are really resonating and pushing us upmarket.
Great. And then, Adam, just a follow-up. On the guidance, I'm curious if you could maybe help us understand what you're thinking about recurring revenue growth, the interest or ex-float revenue. So, just actually think about the growth of those two separate line items and how that rolls into the full year guidance that you just gave.
So as we're thinking about interest income, this quarter we generated about 414 basis points of interest income on our client funds. And on the full year, we're probably expecting something similar to that, as you might see a couple increases, a couple decreases. And we tried to factor that into our guide for the full year.
So not going to see a ton of incremental lift, and you'll see a little bit more in the first half of the year, of course, than you will in the second half of the year. But I think that's going to be marginal contribution to the overall growth. And then I would say broadly, we want to try to keep our performance relative to our guide and our cadence the same as what we've been able to achieve over the last.
growth but there's a little bit of room of course to over perform as we get into the year.
Thanks for answering my questions. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Our next question comes from the line of Bob and Shaw with Deutsche Bank. Please proceed with your question.
Great, thanks for taking my question. Raul, just looking at your slide deck, it looks like your source of wins versus incumbents. Now it's closer to 75% versus maybe 80 prior, while you kind of noted an uptick, at least in the chart, versus cloud vendors. It's driving a little bit of change in terms of who you're winning against.
And are you seeing maybe any equipment from the legacy guys in terms of them trying to hold on to their customers better than they were previously? Yeah, actually our win rate against the largest legacy provider increased this year versus last year, so we saw a slight...
increase against them. I would say some of the cloud competitors, we continue to compete with them very infrequently from a displacement perspective. We see new business generation, we see...
some PEO takeaways that kind of spiked up a little bit in the quarter. But I would say by and large, you know, our top three sources of wins are, and they're literally they interchange month to month, our regional service bureaus in-house and ADP. And there's those three are, you know, comprising Calico.
you know, over 60% of the legacy wins with paychecks being a distant fourth because we don't we don't really you know compete with them as they're primarily an under 50 solution.
really an under 15 solution.
Got it. That's helpful there. And just kind of following up in terms of sales productivity, I mean, you guys talked about kind of 23% bookings growth this year, similar type of seller headcount. Just how do we think about sales productivity over the course of this year and how do we think about that over the next few years and kind of when can we see leverage in terms of recurring growth in excess of kind of seller growth? Thanks.
Yeah, so we actually had slightly positive sales productivity year over year despite you know a 20 plus percent growth in headcount which is
really positive from our perspective because you're bringing in people in the first year of a three-year ramp. And so ultimately, since we started adding headcount, we're going to start to this year anniversary our largest cohort.
from FY22 and so we'll start to see some of the productivity gains there. But we're still hiring a lot of people and we've been able to slightly increase our average productivity for the entire sales organization despite adding significant amount of first-year cohort. So
That means our second and third year people are doing more than they were doing the year prior. And so, you know, we're seeing that natural lift. We're just in this unique phase of, you know, still growing our sales organization. We're still, you know, 25%.
smaller than, you know, Paylocity, as an example. And so, you know, we still have plenty of opportunity to continue to add sales headcount. And, you know, I think, you know, we'll start to see, you know, overall, you know, leverage in sales and marketing.
over this year and the following years as we continue to scale, and some of the sales operations functions and sales leadership functions scale nicely with a larger sales organization. So we'll see that, and we'll continue to drive productivity.
And we're starting to get closer to meaningful scale at 600 sellers today.
Super insightful, thanks for taking my question. Yeah, thanks, Baba.
Our next question comes from the line of Terry Tillman with Truist. Please proceed with your question.
Yeah, hi, good afternoon Raoul, Adam and Rachel. Thanks for taking my questions.
First question, maybe it's actually a follow-up to the prior question, Raul, in terms of sales productivity. As you layer on this large cohort of new sellers from last year, and you're going to keep adding this year, is there the potential though, and I know you're not going to give us the end of the year bookings growth, but potentially you could even see some acceleration in bookings.
And the second part is of the top 15 cities, both key tier ones, you know, I really don't have any idea like, you know, where you are with each of those markets. Are some you're starting to get some pretty good coverage or there are still some that are really paltry in terms of coverage.
Yeah, I mean, I'll start with the coverage perspective. We've moved our coverage in tier one, another eight points, excuse me, seven points. We're up to 36%. So, a little over a third is what we would consider coverage.
And I would say it's fairly equal across the 15 markets as we continue to scale. I would say we still have opportunities in all 15 markets to add sellers. I would say we're probably at the high point.
in the 40 percentile range like in Chicago area where we've been a little longer, since it's a Midwestern city, and we have a lot more room to go in California, in the Northeast and in the Southeast just based on.
you know, the time and territory. So, lots of opportunity to continue to grow in the tier one markets. But, you know, we're seeing really good success. All the metrics are holding up. The average employee size, average deal size, all very similar across the organization.
The one thing we would see is a slightly higher attach rate in Tier 1 markets, subtly bigger, aligned with more talent purchases than maybe in some of the other tiers.
Yeah, hey, Terry. In terms of our ability to continue to accelerate bookings growth, and potentially even at a faster pace, I mean, I think that is the thesis for sure as we look at the new cohorts that we've added, and a lot of those sellers have been in the tier one markets.
there are lots of opportunity for those cohorts to continue to grow. And it's really important, of course, to have the time in the market, and the time with the brokers, and building out those relationships. And so you have a lot of those cohorts in 22, 23, in those tier one markets where there's lots of opportunity that they need.
the territories are still really big for them for that acceleration to come through 24, 25. And I think that that's part of the investment thesis of why we continue to make the investments that we do around sales and marketing, because we think that that's part of the long-term acceleration for sure.
That's very helpful for both of you. Maybe Adam, the question I was going to also ask you though was, it's good to see that I'm breaking 100% on the NRR. In any perspective, directionally on how to think about that as we round out the end of FY24? Thank you. Yeah, so as we head into FY24 relative to the 100%, we...
or the labor market growth that's going to dissipate. So not that we wouldn't target or continue to press to 100% plus growth, I mean, that is our aim to get to 100 to 105% as sort of like a management target. But there's gonna be a couple of those headwinds that'll put pressure on the net retention number.
specifically the labor market growth, which is primarily, you know, of course against our base.
the labor market growth, which is primarily, you know, of course, against our base.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Brian Bergen with Cowen. Please proceed with your question.
First of all, just on the outlook, the near-term guidance, if you can unpack this a bit here, looking at the 1Q guide, it doesn't apply a decent deceleration in the year of your growth rate compared to how you exited strong in 4Q, and it seems relatively fast sequentially. Hello and good night. Bye!
Just trying to unpack what's different there, what's driving that, just giving a calm stone of here.
a little bit more of that headwind that we didn't necessarily have in the same sense in our Q4 period. Those are the two biggest dynamics for sure. You know, in 23 we did see some larger deals that are going to come through maybe at a little bit different timing than we were.
than we would on a more normalized basis or in prior years for 23. And so some of the strength of the bookings, of course, a lot of it comes through in Q4 as our largest quarter. And so some of those larger deals just take a little bit longer to implement. I mean, nothing new or nothing different. It's just a little bit more of a mix in that upmarket segment for us as well.
Okay, and just to be clear, are those deals related to client list acquisitions or organic edition? No, no, in terms of client, yeah, in terms of new business, just signing new business, I mean we just continue to mix a little bit more in that upmarket segment, which again, it fits squarely within the strategy and everything we're talking about. It's just as we continue to mix up.
that market a little bit more, we just see that those deals tend to take towards the longer end of our implementation cycle.
Okay, understood. And just a follow-up on margin, can you bridge the margin walk from
from fiscal 23 to fiscal 24, just the drivers of that EBIT.
I thought I heard a relatively similar client fund interest assumption. If you could just clarify that and the remaining factors that could be...
the expansion. Thanks. Yeah absolutely so in terms of the client funds interest right we generated about 415 basis points or 14 basis points of interest income in Q4 and so we're expecting like on the full year something similar to that which will be marginally additive in terms of
to revenue but not material overall, especially not to the same level as in 23. And as you look at our full year income guide, we're driving for continued margin expansion on adjusted operating income margin expansion as we guide up to $100 million of adjusted operating income on the $650 of revenue.
And as we think about some of the opportunities to continue to expand, we're actually seeing pressure from the amortization as those investments build in. And then we're continuing to scale the rest of the business. You'll see continued expansion and drive for that in the gross margin, continued expansion and drive from that out of G&A or leveraging G&A.
And then we're not looking to necessarily drive expansion out of the margin in R&D at this point. We like those investments, we'll continue to look for those investments. And then similarly on the sales and marketing. And so we continue to be outsized, I think in those two key areas, consistent with how we've been allocating capital.
as a public company. Thank you.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Scott Berg with Needham. Please proceed with your question.
Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my question. This is Michael Rackers. I'm for Scott today. You mentioned a slight improvement quarter over quarter in attack.
Give us a little bit more color on that and then maybe where do you think the capt shady
coming this year.
and how you think about it more online.
Hey Michael?
Yes. Michael, we lost you after Attach.
Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Yeah, no worries. Sorry about that connection. But I guess I was just wondering where you think attach rates can expand the most in FY24, and then how should we think about kind of the normalized PEPM growth rate, effective PEPM growth rate? Yeah. What are we thinking about?
of focus on talent, leading with talent, and engaging leaders across organizations around how they manage their business, OKRs, performance management, and recruiting. And so you're focused on that talent management. We think that there's lots of room there. We've seen a lot of growth.
already the attach rate continues to be strong and we think that there's lots of headway there for us as well. But even on our core platform, I mean our core module as we think about that, we continue to expand that core. And so both of those things combined really enable us to.
you know, lift our overall ADS and that's been part of our story as you look at our ADS, our average deal size, and our PEPM continuing to expand. We also of course offer workforce management solutions and benefits administration. We don't see the same sort of headroom in the attach there just because of our strategies and whether or not clients need work.
but we see more of that headroom in the talent management solutions as we continue to make those investments.
Right, thank you. And then you've done a great job.
Right, thank you. And then you've done a great job of that. Go ahead.
You've done a great job of adding reps in these tier one cities, but what is your strategy as you move up market for larger enterprise accounts or the upper end of your range? Do you have reps specifically targeting this upper end or plan on adding reps there? Thanks.
Yeah, I mean, we today have reps that focus on prospects at the larger end of the size range that are targeting that by geography. In our field organization, we have reps that target the lower end of the market.
you know, above 100 and others that target, you know, above 250, above 500 into the low thousands as I mentioned earlier.
Great, thank you.
Super. Have a great night.
Our next question comes from the line of Brad Reebok with Stifel. Please proceed with your question.
Great. Thanks very much. Adam, can we dive a little deeper into the one Q OpEx guide? I'm just trying to figure out if there are any one-time items, revenues up like $20 million over year, but OpEx, the Op income is flat.
Yeah, I mean, there's no one time items necessarily, but we've made some of those investments that we've been talking through, you know, specific to R&D, new product expansion, and sales and marketing that we, you know, even though we're seeing that the sort of headwinds in Q1 revenues, we didn't want to pull back on some of those key investments.
that we see opportunity to continue to expand margins as we have a better outlook for the revenue for the rest of the year. So it's more just a timing of those ongoing investments and not really wanting to pull back based on the demand that we see in the bottom market right now.
opportunity to continue to expand margins as we you know as we have a better outlook for the revenue for the rest of the year. So it's more just a timing of those ongoing investments and not really wanting to pull back based on the demand that we see in the broader market right now. Great thanks very much.
Thank you. Our next question comes on the line of Brian Peterson with Brian James. Please proceed with your question.
Hi, thanks for taking the question. So, Adam, just a clarification, because I've got it from a couple of folks. When you say marginal additions, are you talking about for interest income, are you talking about taking what was reported in fiscal year 23 and using that for fiscal year 24, or should we be using the fiscal 4Q run rate and kind of analyzing that for next year? I just want to be clear on that.
Yeah, it's going to be closer of course to what we see here in Q4. In Q4, 400 plus basis points will be sort of the jumping off point, I think. And so you're going to see it more in line with Q4 as a stepping off point.
Okay, all right, got it, that's clear. And Raul, maybe one for you, just as you think about the ramp in productivity for the sales hires, is there a significant difference in how that ramp to full speed looks for a Tier 1 rep versus other markets? Just curious to get color on that. Thanks, guys. No, I mean, we haven't seen that.
to this point in time, the seller ramp on the averages is very similar across all markets and all tiers.
Great, thank you.
Great, thank you. Yeah, thank you.
Our next question comes from the line of Mark Marcon with Robert W Baird. Please proceed with your question.
Hey, good afternoon and thanks for taking my questions. So Adam, in terms of just the float balance, would you expect that to basically grow in line with recurring revenue?
The flow balances actually should grow a little bit more in line with employee growth than recurring growth because the recurring revenue of course includes the expansion of stuff like talent and workforce management and benefits that don't necessarily drive the client fund's growth. So what you would expect is it's a little bit more focused on employee growth.
And then plus or minus, you know, wage inflation, which of course we've seen some of the wage inflation in the market data more broadly.
Okay, great. And then with regards to kind of another one of the margin questions, because everybody's been asking that, would you expect the gross margin to basically stay fairly consistent with the...
fourth quarter level in fiscal Q1 of this year? Yeah, I mean, of course we don't guide to gross margin, but I wouldn't expect the gross margin, I mean, our aim broadly on gross margin is to continue, excuse me, to continue to drive operational expansion, you know, by scaling that business. And so,
There are some seasonality, of course, that comes with the gross margin numbers, but there's no incremental or one-time investments that would drive our gross margins at a different pace. And that business is primarily lined up with our customer growth. So I wouldn't expect anything from the customer.
abnormal in our gross margin numbers. Great. And then can you just talk a little bit about you know you've got the specialized packages by industry. How important were those? Did you see stronger growth with with those? Are you continuing to gain share with those? And also how would you how would you describe the importance of having
you know, the dual connection with regards to, you know, other partners that you're servicing your clients with.
Yeah, so how you doing Mark? From an industry perspective, that's a really cornerstone part of our go-to-market. It is over 50 percent of our bookings come from the four key industries, in line with our growth rates.
So we're seeing really solid participation in those four key segments. And it's really about continuing to deliver industry specific solutions, understanding their nomenclature, and then building integrations to their partners and that combination.
is what's driving our overall effectiveness there. Great. And can you, Raul, can you describe what you're seeing in terms of your core well-established markets, both in the Southeast and the Midwest? What sort of incremental gains are you seeing there? Are you continuing to gain share?
And how would you describe the productivity, the sales productivity of the people who've been around for quite a while and are well established and not necessarily ramping up from an experiential perspective?
Yeah, I mean, we have really, we've had great performance in some of our Midwestern stalwart cities like Cincinnati and St. Louis. And so we continue to see really strong performance. And the most of them are what we would call tier two markets.
And so I think that continues to really operate as designed, and we continue to take advantage of our strength there. From an overall seller productivity perspective, obviously, when you get to full tenure at the end of 24 months, you're going to have to be able to
you kind of are who you are. And we have people that are selling well in excess of a million that are tenured. And so we're really seeing the growth in the organization where we're seeing tenured sellers really...
you know, significantly outperforming the line average. And so we're excited about that, and we're going to continue to build, you know, that scaffolding in our organization and continue to build, you know, long-term solid performers that are outdoing the line average which will help us continue to improve our productivity.
Our next question comes from the line of Daniel Jester with VMO Capital Markets. Please proceed with your question. He Drug YouTube channel.
Great, thanks for taking my question. Just maybe building on that sales productivity comment role, shouldn't seller productivity continue to increase as you just get more maturity around the Salesforce investments you've made? Megan, what are you embedding in the guidance in terms of sales productivity in 24?
relative to the last couple of years. Yeah, hey Daniel, in terms of the continued expansion of the sales productivity, I mean absolutely. The thing is when you continue to grow the sales force at 20%, it just weighs on the productivity overall as you're adding in, you know, the newer sellers who are learning and building their book.
And that's why when we look at the other cohorts, previous cohorts, yes, they continue to drop productivity and you're absolutely right. You know, that's what we would expect over time. In terms of impact on 24, we're not expecting productivity improvements per se. Of course, we have expectations over the demand environment and how much bookings we generate and how we manage.
continued bookings expansion into 24 in our guide. We're not expecting or we're not including anything in our guide that would be outside of what we think that we have sort of visibility to and is appropriately risk adjusted.
Great, thank you. And then can we just double click on free cash flow margins? I think you made a comment that you should expect them to improve at a faster rate than operating margins. But maybe a little more color as to kind of how you expect that to translate in fiscal 24. Thank you.
Yeah, of course. A couple of the key pieces that don't or they get sort of capitalized and amortized are related to the sales investments and the cost of fulfill. And those items get amortized over six years. And so as that amortization builds into the adjusted operating income, there's less of an impact on our free cash flow now, right? So we're picking up the benefits.
and that's what we're driving at. But we're gonna see the better leverage out of some of those cost-to-fulfill investments and the R&D investments, the product investments that we're making, just as we continue to scale the business. So you're gonna start to see that flow through to free cash flow at just a slightly faster clip, which will expand those margins.
Our next question comes from the line of Kevin McVay with Credit Suisse. Please proceed with your question.
Great, thanks so much. This may be for Adam. Hey, Adam, can you just unpack the revenue times 24 relative to 23? It looks like at the midpoint it's about 17% growth.
versus 29% in 23 and it sounds like there's a couple three 400 basis points
from just, you know, employment headwinds.
Can you bring fence just what the other components are of the deceleration? Is it just some conservatism in there, maybe a little less pricing, if I'm thinking about it right?
Yeah, well, of course, we picked up a pretty strong contribution of growth from interest income in 23. And so we saw about seven points of growth from interest income on that 29%. And you're not going to see that level of contribution growth into 24. And so those two numbers, of course, are the biggest drivers. We're seeing about seven points.
in 23, we're going to see maybe a couple points, just a couple, of interest income contribution to the growth rate in 24. And we're, you know, then you're seeing those labor market headwinds that we talked about, some of those form filing headwinds that we talked about that are really putting pressure, especially on the first half of the year.
So those are a couple of the key factors. And then of course as we get into the guide, you know, we are not looking to change our philosophy on guidance versus the last couple of years. And so we want to continue to create some of the space for us to over-perform where we can.
And we want to be consistent, of course, in that approach throughout the year. Very helpful. Thank you.
of course, in that approach throughout the year. Very helpful. Thank you. Thanks, Kevin.
Our next question comes from the line of Steve Enders with Citi. Please proceed with your question.
Okay, great. Thanks for taking the questions here. I do want to ask on the Tier 1 investments that you're continuing to make and a good seven-point increase here, but how should we think about how much more room there is to expand in those areas? And I guess what would those levels look like over the next couple of years here? Yeah, I mean, in the Tier 1 market today,
we sit roughly at 36% coverage. So we could more than double the sales organization in the tier one markets. And again, we're gonna continue to leverage the majority of the incremental headcount that we add each year, we'll go into these tier one markets.
So I think, you know, we think the runway is long, and we're going to continue to pragmatically deploy the resources in these tier one markets and drive productivity.
So I think, you know, we think the runway is long, and we're going to continue to pragmatically deploy the resources in these tier one markets and drive productivity.
Okay that's a helpful context there and then I guess maybe for like the one two guys just want to make sure that they have like the float income dynamics here you know in you know in a similar way that you're talking about the year I mean is it kind of similar like flow through
what came in for 4Q for 1Q and stuff like the right level here, or are there other factors we should be accounting for?
You know I mean I think it should be fairly consistent between the quarters you're not going to see I you're not going to see much sort of swings many swings when we're changing 25 basis points at this level you're just not going to see the same level of material swing so I think you're going to see it you know quite similar to where we were in Q4.
All right, perfect. Thanks for taking questions. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Robert Simmons with DA Davidson. Please proceed with your question.
Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. So last year your seasonality was thrown off a little bit by some of the form filing fees shifting around a bit. Do you expect that to continue this year or should we expect that to normalize back to a more normal cadence?
Hey, Robert. I think that you're probably going to see a little bit more of a cadence like a prior year with a little bit of outsize in Q3 still. So, you know, we implemented some new services.
and pricing that we talked about last quarter in Q3 that will persist. But as some of the form filings become a headwind and begin to go away, I think it's going to revert more to a normalized environment. You're just not going to see quite as much sort of spread throughout the year. So we'll see less form filings in Q1.
and Q4 and then the Q3 actually might, you know, be a little bit more consistent but still remain at a slightly elevated level because of some of the products and services that we have offered as well. Got it. Okay, that makes sense. And then, so you kind of touched on it before, but on the competitive landscape.
Have you seen things change over not just last quarter but maybe over the last year or so? Are the newer entrants getting up to size now that they matter at all? Or do you think they're still pretty subscale? And what are you seeing in terms of competitive price pressures up and down?
We definitely don't see any new entrants so that nothing has changed from that perspective. You know we still obviously see ADP, Paylocity, and Paycom
Our next question comes from Jackson Ater with Moffitt Nathanson. Please proceed with your question. Thanks for taking our questions, guys. The first one, so Raul, actually, if we can just follow up on the competitive comment you made about win rates at ADP picking up.
Any particular type of customer that you saw more success with this year compared to last year, is it similar to just like winning more upmarket against ADP?
Yeah, good question. It was really tied to the overall mix increase from ADP by a point or two, and it is primarily a market.
Okay, all right, that makes sense. And then Adam, we've talked a lot about kind of the
continuing to invest in sellers, but what about, like have you given any thoughts as to the linearity? Like will you maybe front load things while we can kind of see what the economy looks like here in the next three, six months, and then take a look at the second half of the year and make decisions from there? Yeah, I mean that is definitely how we think about it. I mean we tend to plan it a little bit more.
Internally and then we look for those opportunities as we continue to go through the year. Also, January is a really important month for us as we think about our own seasonality in the market in terms of a lot of new business that we start in January . Of course, we see some of our larger clients losses. They want to leave in January as well. I mean for the same reason why we win.
I think, I mean, how you're saying it is sort of how we think about it. We sort of think about it linearly and then we make decisions on, you know, how the business is trending.
All right, cool. Thank you.
Got it. All right, cool. Thank you. Thanks, Jackson.
Our next question comes from the line of Matt Fu with William Blair. Please proceed with your question. Great. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to first ask on the relationship between bookings growth and your guidance for fiscal 24. So bookings growth was up 23....
around 17%. What are the factors there that drive that delta between the bookings growth and then what you're forecasting looking forward for recurring revenue growth?
Hey, Matt. There are a couple dynamics, of course, as we think about the rest of the business. There's a lot of factors as we think about just the components of that revenue growth. New business is a piece of it. Client sales are a component of that. And we have dynamics like pricing that we've talked through.
losses or retention of our client base that we've talked through. And then of course there's the labor market growth and how the labor market growth is trending, plus other things like the form filings that we've discussed as well. And so, you know, we want to see revenue growth and it's possible that, you know, revenue should accelerate faster than our books.
There's no reason that that can't be part of the dynamic and we just need to continue to keep executing in our tier one and I mean our market expansion and sales expansion strategy like we've been discussing for sure.
Got it. And then just the last one for me, sorry to ask another question about the Q1 guide specifically, but if we look at the, I guess, implied interest income that you'd be expecting in Q1, I think people would have expected perhaps more of that to flow down to.
operating income? Yeah, I mean, so we want to continue to expand margins on a recurring basis. And that is our aim, that's how we manage the business. And we're also leveraging the interest income today to continue to expand and fuel our strategy, which we think is prudent given the environment and our ability to continue. I mean, we see the demand, we see the product working in the...
management perspective to be able to pull back on those incremental investments that we're making, again, specifically around marketing programs, digital investment, brand investment to drive that expansion and the accelerated product investments, which we've been really intentional about to drive.
towards what we consider our innovation buckets, which is more around new product expansion, new functionality to get the product to maintain our competitive advantage in that space. And so those are the areas that we're going to continue to invest in. And again, based on what we saw for the full year and how we're thinking about our performance through the year, how bookings came in from last year and how they're going to layer in for this year.
we didn't think that it was prudent to pull back on those investments and sort of disrupt the management cycle, disrupt the product innovation cycle, disrupt our marketing investments and campaigns that were running there. And so we wanted to continue those even at the expense of some of that margin pressure that we're guiding to here in Q1.
And then of course as you look at our guide and our philosophy, you know, I think we've been prudent about how we've guided and we wanted to keep that same, you know, philosophy going forward. So hopefully you see the same from us as we get through 24. Our next question?
but just wanted to dig into one comment you said you are moving up market average deal size. So how do you differentiate from your competitors? What's helping you win against your competitors?
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a combination of things. And the wonderful thing about ATM is every company that we sell to is unique. But I would say some of the key areas that differentiate us in the marketplace are the simplicity of our platform, modern cloud platform. We have a-
best in class talent platform that helps people source, on board, coach, inspire, and manage their employees most effectively. So we're really focused on enabling leaders to drive people in performance. Then we have the most open platform in ETM. So if a customer is interested.
taking the HCM system of record and integrating it with other key tools that they use, you know, they're definitely
Thank you. You're welcome.
Our last question comes from the line as Patrick Walravens with JMP Securities. Please proceed with your question.
Hi this is Owen Hobbs on for PAT, thanks for taking the question. So kind of going back to that moderating labor force growth, I was wondering if you if you're seeing any
any difference in that moderation by different verticals, or if it's all kind of at once moderated.
Yeah, hey Owen, we see it matches up to the broader market, that's for sure. I mean we're seeing some slowness, a little bit slower in manufacturing. Professional services have sort of bounced around a little bit and actually recovered marginally. And then food and beverage and healthcare have been, they ramped a little bit faster earlier in 23.
and those have slowed, but they still look normal relative to what we're seeing in the broader market. So, yeah, we do see a little bit of those dynamics. Our portfolio has a good mix and does represent the overall average of the economy, so we see some of those same dynamics.
Great, thank you. And then obviously, I can't predict the future, but is there any indication based on, you know, historical patterns or any kind of analysis you guys are doing on how long this headwind will last?
Yeah, I mean, you could look at macroeconomic forecasts from all the big players and we certainly take all those into consideration and it feels like it's everybody's guess, right? And I think that the market's been expecting a faster slowdown for a long time and we've been talking about this for more than a year.
and who's to say if it's going to compress further or go negative. We tried to be as conservative as we thought has been prudent in our guide based on what those macroeconomic experts are predicting, which is varied. There's plenty of projections that I think the labor market's going to compress and or...
decline and there's plenty that are a little bit more bullish. I think the folks have been leaning a little bit more bullish and dovish lately. But we've tried to be moderate in how much we've included in our guide, which we think is prudent.
That concludes our question and answer session. I'd like to hand it back to Raul Villara for closing remarks.
Thank you again for attending our earnings call. We remain optimistic about the opportunity in front of us and remain focused on executing our strategy. We look forward to connecting with you at the C-Full Tech Executive Summit in Deer Valley, the Goldman Sachs, Communicopia and Technology Conference in San Francisco and the Citi Global Technology Conference in New York in the coming weeks.
As always, feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Have a great evening. Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day.