Q2 2023 Wynn Resorts Ltd Earnings Call
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[music].
Okay.
Welcome to the Wynn resorts second quarter 2023 earnings call. All participants are in a listen only mode until the question and answer session of today's conference.
Ask a question press star one on your Touchtone phone record your name and introduce you. Please limit yourself to one question and one follow up question. This call is being recorded if you have any objections you may disconnect. At this time I will now turn the line over to Julie Cameron Doe Chief Financial Officer. Please.
Go ahead.
Thank you operator, and good afternoon, everyone on the call with me today are Craig Billings, Brian Goldberg and Steve Whiteman in Las Vegas also on the line I'm Linda Chen.
And Jenny holiday.
I want to remind you that we may make forward looking statements under safe Harbor Federal Securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true.
Now I'll turn the call over to Craig Billings.
Thanks Julie.
Everyone. Thanks for joining us today.
Well.
What a quarter.
Thought just six months ago that we would be run rating $2 2 billion of property EBITDA.
To put that in context peak annual property EBITDA for the company was $2 billion in 2018.
Yet here, we are today, we have a more diversified business with the addition of Encore Boston Harbor, we have a business in Macau that is running structurally higher margins into a resurging market.
Business in Las Vegas that is more relevant than ever and is producing nearly double its 2018 EBITDA on much higher margins and.
And we have a very substantial growth opportunity in the UAE and most exciting new gaming market in decades.
I see tremendous value in our business and I know our brightest days are ahead of us.
Our path is the clearest it has been in years and our team is committed and energized.
Turning to the quarter and starting in Vegas, Wynn Las Vegas delivered $224 million of adjusted property EBITDA.
On a hold normalized basis, our EBITDA was up 3% on a very difficult year over year comp.
We saw strength all over the place the casino hotel restaurants retail you name it all.
All supported by a consumer that seems more than willing to continue spending on unique luxury experiences.
Now, we obviously have a very particular customer type skewing heavily to luxury and we continue to closely monitor whether or not interest rates and inflation begin to impact that consumer.
But so far so good in fact drop handle and Revpar are all up year over year in July and that's obviously before we get into the latter portion of the year, which has a number of tailwind from citywide programming.
Turning to Boston like Vegas, Encore had a strong quarter generating $69 million of EBITDAR and all time property Records.
We generated record GTR and the casino led by strong growth in slot handle and the addition of retail sports betting earlier this year.
On the non gaming side, we delivered strong hotel revenue driven by both ADR and occupancy.
On the development front in Boston, we're advancing our Easter Broadway expanded expansion project now.
Turning to Macau, we generated $246 million of EBITDA in the quarter, which was 72% of pre COVID-19 levels.
Hold was a bit of a mixed bag in the quarter as we held high in our VIP business, but that was more than offset by low hold on the mass table side.
We saw strength across the property with several components of the business above 2019 levels in.
In the casino mass table drop increased 4% versus Q2 2019. Despite the fact that portions of Wynn Macau casino were closed for renovation during the quarter.
The quality of our product and service the relaunch of our loyalty program and our very robust non gaming events calendar. All helped drive 14, 2% market share in the quarter consistent with our share as we exited 2019.
On the non gaming side, our retail business continues to be incredibly strong with tenant retail sales, increasing 47% relative to <unk> 2019.
Looking forward as you have seen market wide GTR momentum in Macau has been impressive building through the second quarter.
The strength has continued into Q3 with mass drop per day in July exceeding what we experienced in each month in Q2, and reaching 120% of daily mass drop in 2019.
In July we also continue to experience robust hotel occupancy and very healthy tenant retail sales.
On the development front, we are deep into design and planning for our concession related capex commitments, which we believe will help support Macao as long term diversification goals and be additive to our business over the coming years.
Lastly, construction is now underway on when our Marshwan Island are planned integrated resort in the UAE with our secant walls and soil compaction complete and over 40% of the required hotel piles in the ground.
As I said earlier this is the most exciting new market opening in decades, and we will bring our a game to this development.
Our 40% equity ownership and management license fees will drive a very healthy ROI for Wynn resorts shareholders.
With that I will now turn it back to Julie to run through some additional details on the quarter Julie Thank you Craig.
At Wynn Las Vegas, we generated $224 $1 million and adjusted property EBITDA on $578 1 million.
During the quarter delivering an EBITDA margin of 38, 8%.
Slightly lower than normal hold negatively impacted EBITDA by around $2 million in Q2 and hold normalized adjusted property EBITDA was up 3% year over year.
Our hotel revenue increased 6% year over year to $177 8 million.
A new second quarter record on the back of an increase of 24000 occupied room nights due to rooms that were out of service for renovations in Q2, 2022, ADR occupancy and Revpar, but all up slightly compared to Q2 2022. Despite the increase in available room nights, highlighting the appeal of our newly renovated room products.
Our other non gaming businesses, so broad based strength across food and beverage entertainment and retail.
In the casino or <unk> increased around 2% year over year, driven by a 14, 8% year on year increase in slot handle and table drop that was roughly flat.
Turning to Boston, we generated adjusted property EBITDA of $69 $1 million, an all time property record.
EBITDA margin was 31, 1% up 80 basis points year over year.
So broad based strength across casino in non gaming during the quarter and the casino, we generated $193 million of G. G. L. A property record with strength in both tables and slots and non gaming revenue grew three 8% year over year to $55 $1 million with particular strength in hotel and food and beverage.
We stay very disciplined on the cost side with Opex, excluding gaming tax per day of approximately $1 one $5 million in Q2, 2023 up three 6% year over year on increased business volumes are down 1% sequentially.
As you may have seen in the press we were pleased to recently signed new Union agreements that provide our employees with competitive wages benefits and a best in class working environment that reflects our wind service standards, we expect the incremental opex from the new agreements to be partially offset by cost efficiencies. We have identified in areas of the business that do not.
What impact the guest experience.
Additionally, I would like to note that business volumes in Q3 are temporarily being negatively impacted by the Sumner tunnel restoration project. The city of Boston is conducting that will be ongoing through August 31.
The impact is primarily being felt in our table games business as those slots and non gaming revenue continued to grow year on year in July .
On the calibrations delivered adjusted property EBITDA of $246 2 million in the quarter on $769 9 million of operating revenues.
As Craig noted, we held high in all VIP business, but this was more than offset by lower than expected hold on the mass table side.
We were encouraged by the meaningful uptick in visitation in demand we experienced during the quarter with particular strength in mass casino drop direct VIP turnover luxury retail and hotel revenues all above Q2 2019 levels.
EBITDA margin was 32% in the quarter, an increase of 290 basis points relative to Q2 2019 with Wynn Palace. This margin, reaching 33, 4% or 690 basis points above Q2 2019 levels.
EBITDA margin strength was driven by combination of the favorable mix shift to higher margin mass gaming and operating leverage on cost efficiencies in fact, our opex. Excluding gaming tax was approximately $2 2 million per day in Q2, a decrease of 29% compared to $3 2 million in Q2, 2019 and down 2%.
From Q1, despite the meaningful sequential increase in business volumes. The team has done a great job remaining disciplined on cost and we are well positioned to continue to drive strong operating leverage as the business recovers over time.
In terms of Capex. We are currently advancing through the design and planning stages on a concession commitments and as we noted the past few quarters. These projects require a number of government approvals, creating a wide range of potential capex in the very near term.
As such for 2023 through 2024, we expect capex related to our concession commitments to range between $300 million until $100 million.
Turning to win interactive our EBITDA burn rate decrease both sequentially and year over year to $15 million in Q2 2023.
Our team continues to stay disciplined on costs, while driving improved marketing efficiency.
Moving onto the balance sheet, our liquidity position remains very strong with global cash and revolver availability of approximately $4 $7 billion as of June 30th.
This was comprised of $1 $8 billion of total cash and available liquidity in Macau and $2 $9 billion in the U S.
Importantly, the combination of strong performance in each of our markets globally without processes run rating approximately $2 $2 billion of annualized property EBITDA together with our robust cash and liquidity created very healthy leverage profile for the company globally.
We're also pleased to announce that the board approved a cash dividend of <unk> 25 per share payable on August 31, 2023 to stockholders of record as of August 21, 2023, highlighting our commitment to returning capital to shareholders.
Our capex in the quarter was $92 million.
Primarily relates to the Spa bill of renovations and food and beverage enhancements at Wynn Las Vegas are normal course maintenance across the business with that we will now open up the call to Q&A.
Thank you.
I ask a question press star one on your Touchtone phone on mute your phone record your name clearly after the prompt and I will introduce you for your question. Please.
Please limit yourself to one question and one follow up question to withdraw your question you May Press Star two.
Our first question comes from <unk>.
Cargo centrally from Deutsche Bank, you May go ahead Sir.
Hey, Craig Julie everyone. Thanks.
You for taking my question so.
Just on the.
On the Macau front, obviously the reduction sequentially in daily Opex was a little bit of a differentiator relative to what we've seen in some peer reports.
Can you talk a little bit more about that and also it looks as though your implied.
Commissions discounts et cetera.
As a percentage of revenue were down nicely sequentially.
Do you expect kind of that trend to continue going forward.
Sure Carlo.
First on the Opex side I think.
We're always moderating modulating opex based on business volumes, and what we need to get done in any particular quarter I think the distinction between us and perhaps some of the other folks that have reported that you have seen is that we opened with a full complement of folks and so we werent dragging floors. We didn't have rooms out of service et cetera, et cetera, and so we came out of it.
<unk>.
With.
With the full opex that youre seeing today and any movements between quarters is really going to be a function of the business in that quarter.
On the commissions and discounts there hasnt been any any substantial change to how we do that so again, that's going to be.
Player specific based on the.
The parameters of each player and so again I wouldn't read too much into it.
Great and then if I could Craig a follow up turning to Las Vegas, obviously.
Very strong performance.
On the especially on the cost discipline side can you talk a little bit I believe your labor contract actually ends in July so I.
Wondering if you expected any any impact, but could you talk a little bit about how.
You guys intend to kind of accrue for what may be.
Settlement and some new terms going forward or anything that was present in the <unk> perhaps.
Sure how much time I began carlo.
He's got plenty.
Plenty I guess.
Well first what I'll say is this first and foremost.
The team at Wynn Las Vegas is the heart and soul of the place. They are very important to me and it's the same reason that we paid everybody during the closure during COVID-19.
And if you look over the term of the last union contracts their contractual wage increases initially outpaced inflation.
And then of course lagged inflation over the course of the past couple of years.
Net net over the last contract they were actually flat versus core CPI.
But unfortunately, and it's a reality ranked in Las Vegas has increased more than CPI over that same period and its very important to me that our employees can support the stable home environment for their families.
So I expect there'll be some back and forth as we work with culinary to find a fair compensation level that supports our folks, particularly our non pip folks and.
And their ability to maintain their housing.
Pretty early in the process. So we're not really even close to quantifying dollars, yet or talking about accruals.
But rest assured we'll figure it out in a way that's positive for the business over the medium and long term.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you and our next caller is Joe Greff with J P. Morgan.
Good afternoon guys.
Craig when you look back at the <unk>, what would you say in Macao, what would you say Wynn Macau and the peninsula was it.
It had a meaningful amount of renovation disruption to the EBITDA line that you would call out or do you think you you were able to effectively shift what would otherwise have been disrupted.
The other parts of the casino or to your property in Cotai.
Well the renovations thanks.
Thanks, Joe the renovations, which took place we're smack dab in the middle of the casino floor.
So certainly there was a level of disruption I think.
The more macro point would be that a lot of the visitation that has come back, particularly for us has come back in Cotai.
And if you think about a world where there are no longer any junkets, yet we're holding market share I'm incredibly proud of what we've been able to do on a combined basis, but certainly we have work to do in terms of share downtown.
The business will go is that share goes it's pretty simple business your market shares times, the market minus taxes minus opex equals EBITDA. So.
Our focus is on driving share downtown and really that's the way that we think about the business going forward and Thats why we did the renovations in the first place. So I don't want to give you the impression that the quarter's results were entirely a function of the renovation because theyre not but certainly on the margin they were impacted.
They've got and I'm presuming the renovation was completed at some point in June .
If you can confirm that but would you would you expect that that Cotai and peninsula would be more imbalanced going for similar to 2019 or do you think visitation dynamics are such where the cotai.
It's just going to get a little bit more more traction.
Confirmed and the ladder.
Okay and then.
You called out as others didn't have <unk> in parts of the <unk> This reporting season.
Talking about low hold on the mass side.
We can see the whole percentages the last couple of quarters versus what you did in 2019 2019 at both properties.
Well what is that a function of our our our players are betting side bedroom or playing differently or is it really just a couple of quarters of.
Aberrations in unexpected table hold percentages.
Yeah, you're right and you know historically by the way, we havent normalized for mass hold and that was that made sense. When the business was more balanced between mass and VIP. So that's something we're going to rethink going forward, but to your question very specifically, it's really a function of two things and it was most acute.
At Wynn Macau, rather than than Wynn palace, it's a function of volumes and normal course volatility. So you mentioned just normal aberrations and certainly that's part of it but volume inherently smooth volatility. So when you had tour groups and you had core mass and you had.
Just more bodies coming to Macau the impact of volatility was inherently muted and thats just not the case right now so I would expect to continue to see volatility, sometimes it'll be to our benefit and sometimes it will be to the players.
Great. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next caller is Shaun Kelley with Bank of America, you May go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions.
Craig maybe one more about Macau, but just wondering if you can give a little bit of color about sort of segments of business, what you're seeing across you know, particularly behavior wise across premium mass and VIP and I'm really thinking kind of spend per visit relative to whats left to recover on the visitation side as you look to see things normalize.
Yes.
I'm going to not comment on VIP, because it's obviously very patron.
Specific and VIP volumes are <unk>.
While surprisingly good still a fraction of what they were previously on the mass side.
We've seen length of stay decline, which makes sense because during COVID-19. If you made the commitment to come you were coming for an extended period, but we have seen spend per customer actually go up.
And so frequency frequency has increased length of stay is decrease in spend per customer has gone up which is great because that.
That gives you the opportunity to make efficient use of your Roes.
And as is generally good for business, but I don't really have a comment on VIP.
Very helpful and then.
Maybe one for you or Julie I, just wanted to ask about the Capex comment in the prepared remarks, I believe the callout was around some of the concession commitments and something around $300 million to $400 million. The question is was that a per year number or is that a total number across kind of 2023 and 2024 and if you could just remind us how youre thinking of.
What sort of capex versus possible opex components related to the concession process, because I know, it's a little different for everybody and I know these plans are moving around top.
Thanks, Sean I'll I'll take that.
Yeah that number we've given out of 300 to 400 million is the is the 'twenty three 'twenty four number and then as you know we've done that I think we've always foreshadowed that the process takes some time because it's because of all the different approvals that are required. So we were we were hopeful that we would getting along this year, but actually now we're looking at the 300 to 400 over the <unk>.
Three to 2004 period in total.
In terms of how we're thinking about the the concession.
More than half of the the commitment we made more than half of the $2 billion with.
It's capex related and.
And we do expect that to be to be front end loaded. So you know obviously with the 300 to 400 in the first two years and then you know similar to that for a couple of years. After that and then I would just point out that on the Opex side I would just like to remind you that there is a lot of things that we do in the business today that already support non gaming and so we don't expect.
Specced all of that to be incremental.
Very clear thank you everyone.
Thank you our next caller is Steven Grambling with Morgan Stanley You May go ahead Sir.
Hi, Thanks, maybe a clarification on July in Macao, I think you said the run rate was 120% of 2019 levels on hold should we think of that is true for.
Hold adjusted win rate comparing versus 2019, and any reason to believe that the $2 2 million in Opex per day would be similar or different during that month versus the quarter as we build going forward.
The 120 sure the 120% that I referenced was dropped.
So it has no so when obviously has no impact.
And Opex.
No expectation of any material changes in opex.
And then maybe as a follow up on capital allocation I think if we take the 2.2 billion run rate EBITDAR less the concession spend some other capex in Vegas and the dividend it looks like there could still be some free cash flow.
Leftover is that is that the right way to think about it and is there appetite and your ability to ramp capital return or do you generally think the pandemic has altered how you think about liquidity and leverage.
Julie do you want to take the first portion of that and I'll take the second.
About the Capex.
The free cash flow sure yeah, you're quite right. You know, we went out with the $2 $2 billion run rate and.
And interest under control and all of that we have we have sizable discretionary free cash flow and so we're very focused on.
What we'll be doing in terms of.
Delevering returning to shareholders and of course all of the exciting project, we have in front of us.
We're well capitalized at the moment and I expect we will maintain some extra liquidity until we really see how a few things play out.
First is new York.
Second is the macro economy and the third is the yield curve and we're always looking at the markets capital markets and thinking about when to refinance and whether to do it dollar for dollar or modestly delever and when to return capital to shareholders primarily by.
By adding to the dividend so we're in a we're in a bit of.
A wait and see approach at this moment, but if you think about it we've got a great project in the UAE that is going to be a stunner. We've re initiated our dividend in our leverages is well under control. So we feel pretty good about where we are.
Fair enough. Thanks, so much sure.
Thank you our next caller comes from David Katz with Jefferies. You May go ahead Sir.
Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question.
I am hoping for just a little more insight on margins in Macao. It's it's it's been you know one of the questions are trying to figure out what the new normal is or could be longer term as we think about the future.
Largely driven by revenue mix.
You know I wonder what updated thoughts you may have versus what we would've had 90 days ago or more.
More than that when I was over to over to visit where it was the prevailing question. Thank you.
Sure David not not really I mean.
I think a little bit like.
What happened in the U S. We learn to run our business differently. So you mentioned primarily related to business mix and certainly that's it that's a component of it but we are running the business really really well the quality of service is.
It is as it should be and as it has always been yes.
Yet our Opex has come down pretty meaningfully and I think it's a testament to Linda and Frederick and and Craig Fuller, our CFO over there.
And everything they've been able to do with the business. So really what youre seeing is particularly at palace you can see it in the margin what you're seeing is the impact of both sides of it with operating leverage coming through from business volumes.
Yes.
And pretty robust expense control.
Alright.
You know, leaving it to us to decide on the order of magnitude, but it is fair to assume that there still should be some margin upside in Macau still to be captured as those volumes returned to truck.
I haven't been.
In an excel model in probably 15 years, but if I were doing one I would probably hold margin.
At palace relatively constant just to be serviced by minutes in the in the low thirties today, which is pretty darn good and I would assume that Wynn Macau is margin increases as we aggressively fight for share.
Okay I'll take it. Thank you very much I appreciate it.
Thank you. Our next caller is branch mine tour with Barclays. You May go ahead Sir.
Hey, good evening, everybody. Thanks for taking my question, so so and Las Vegas, obviously, a great result, there revpar and ADR were flat to up small year over year.
Just curious how youre feeling about taking rate from these levels that you're at today, obviously occupancy is pretty full and looking out in the back half of the year, how do you feel about your comparisons.
You know sort of cadence third quarter fourth quarter, as well as the sort of financial impact or the hotel impact from F. One in the fourth quarter.
Sure I'll start and then I'll ask I'll ask Bryan to comment.
We have grown AVR pretty meaningfully certainly since since the property reopens from from the closure in 2020, and I'm incredibly proud of our ability to do that.
Really speaks to the product that we offer.
And we've held those rates and we've continued to have a rate premium to to the rest of the town our ability to continue to take rate really depends on the macro and as I mentioned in my.
My opening remarks.
The best I can do is kind of give you a clear picture of what we're seeing right now and it is good but as I've said before we have in 2023 playbook for for really in 2024 for every <unk>.
Every scenario, so I'm not really going to forecast, whether we think we can continue to take rate given how dependent it is on the overall economy, but we're feeling great about our business, Brian do you want to talk about pacing.
I mean, if you look at on a forward looking demand indicators are really remaining quite healthy the room bookings we have our.
Pacing up year over year as far as our group pace it continues to be strong.
We've mentioned it on previous calls Q.
Q3, and Q4 continue with the same pace that we've had thus far this year. So 2023 will wind up being a record group here at 24 continues to pace ahead of that so we keep looking for the signs but lead volume is there and our team does a great job of converting.
Okay. That's super helpful and then and then for John .
I appreciate the comments.
Obviously, an exciting property.
Can you give us an update on the <unk>.
License and sort of the.
The pathway there and just an update if you have everything you need for the sort of full plan that you'd laid out in your initial.
Projections.
Sure.
Have everything we need to operate gaming and federal Marshalls.
I think there is confusion here because there's a lack of understanding regarding individual cameras versus the UAE as a whole excuse me again as I think I've talked about before to state and federal system. So while there may be conversation and other emirates about legalization or legalization at the federal level, thereby covering all Emirates I expected we.
We will have our license for <unk>.
Actually imminently.
Hi.
But there should be no concern that there is a legalization process that needs to occur in order for a broader legalization process.
In order for gaming to occur in that property.
Crystal clear thanks for the comments sure.
Thank you. Our next caller is Dan Patzer with Wells Fargo. You May go ahead Sir.
Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions.
On prior calls.
You've mentioned that you could get back to a run rate EBITDA and I think it was about 26 $27 billion range for GTR I mean, given what you're seeing in terms of mix and margin is that still achievable.
Going back to that July under 20% data point that you gave is this something that maybe is achievable in the back end of this year.
I mean, it depends on the market again the model there is as I said pretty straightforward your share at times the market minus taxes minus opex.
So it really depends on which way the market goes the the market estimate where we think we would get back.
It remains as you described probably closer to 27 versus 26 based on the share we turned in.
This particular quarter, but generally that holds true.
Got it and then just for my follow up in terms of Wynn Macau, you mentioned youre going to Youre going to be fighting for share. There is that is it fair to say.
Say that margins, maybe come down a little bit from these current levels and I guess more broadly as it relates to premium mass are you seeing an uptick in promotions within that segment.
On the second question no the market has been.
Has been pretty disciplined and we're certainly pleased with that on the first question I don't think you should expect margin to go down at Wynn Macau.
If the if the subtext of your question was will we need to get promotional in order to drive business to Wynn Macau No you should not assume that the margin will go down because we have tremendous operating leverage that comes with each 10 basis points of share at that property.
Got it thanks that's helpful.
Thank you our next caller is Chad Beynon with Macquarie You May go ahead Sir.
And thanks for taking my question.
Wanted to ask about the interactive cash burn you mentioned that that's come down again year over year and sequentially are you still on track for this to turn profitable in the fourth quarter and any other kind of insights in terms of where this is going and how the flow through should look if revenues rise from here during peak.
Season. Thanks.
Sure I don't think we ever said it would be.
Breakeven in the fourth quarter, but what we are focused on is <unk>.
I'm sure that it goes down every quarter right.
Alright, Yeah, just I mean, the sort of settings.
I think the tough business, it's always about the game of commodity that difficult businesses. We're very focused on managing this business. We've got very long term shareholder friendly people in it.
Okay.
Thank you and then another one on Macau you just mentioned that the 27 billion G. G. Our number we did see some sequential growth in the last recent months, but I'm just wondering as some of the farther out visitors come back to the market.
I guess, we'd kind of have to work through the database figuring out where all the premium players are in all of China, but does this matter as much for you guys or you know.
Are there enough people and kind of Hong Kong in Guangdong for you to continue to put up numbers or you know.
Do you really need some of those further out markets to open up from a visa and just the visitation standpoint and are they driving higher spend per trip than what you're seeing in the property right now.
Every customer matters here.
Yes.
Hi.
Of course, we want to see the outer lying regions start to contribute to Macau are we dependent on it.
No, but certainly that's going to add incremental heft to the recovery and has can add incremental has to the total market, which again pushes us further back towards towards breakeven.
I'm, sorry, breakeven with 2019 or equal to 2019.
Makes sense I appreciate it thank you very much sure.
And our next caller is John decree with C. B R. E. You May go ahead Sir.
Thanks for taking my questions.
Maybe just a two part question on Las Vegas, Greg to the extent you can provide maybe a little bit more color.
Around the visibility you have for the big events, like Epsilon or or Super Bowl and then maybe the.
The second part of that question is when you look at your forward demand indicators.
For bookings is how much of that kind of year on year growth is tethered to those events.
Putting those events are you still seeing good booking indicators, who knows maybe less peak periods or less kind of event driven periods.
Sure I'll start and then I'll ask Brian to comment so.
Brian its prior comment on booking pace was independent of those events to answer to your to answer. Your last question, Yes F. One Super Bowl I mean these are events that are made for US right. Because we ended up picking up the top end of Av.
The Patriots and customers that come to town.
Those events.
We're really excited about it it's about where where we are and where we sit Brian do you want to provide some more color sure. Yes, I think both of these events specifically up one and then Super Bowl.
Definitely play to the strengths of our brand is a perfect match.
We're getting significant premiums for those two events themselves and I think we're pacing quite nicely.
Some of our competitors are getting more specific data, but I can tell you we're going to do just fine here.
Very good thanks for the color guys I appreciate it.
Thanks, Shannon operator, the next question will be lost.
Thank you and our final question comes from Robin Farley with UBS you May go ahead.
Great. Thank you for letting me sneak in here Dan.
Can you clarify just to sort of.
Make it comparable to previous periods.
CIP hold added to it.
To make the EBITDA in Macao.
Sure.
Holding back to VIP hold me back to the I T I mean as.
As we said on the call.
We held we held a little bit high on feel like pay but that was more than offset by lowest tomorrow.
So we're not actually getting into breaking it out.
Okay.
Alright.
It was about 20 million Bucks.
So we have about 20 million Bucks of high hold on VIP and this is what I was alluding to earlier, we need to we're going to start normalizing for mass hold because so much of our business now is mass.
But it was about 20 million Bucks in Macau, and low mass hold more than offset that as Julie said.
Okay, Great and I appreciate you breaking that out just to make it kind of comparable to previous quarters. So thank you.
Hmm.
If I missed your comment on this.
He talked about you know how much of the margin you think you can hold on to it.
In Vegas.
Well, it's in the midst of.
In the midst of the dark days of Covid, we put out a permanent cost savings.
Figure and we've held to that we certainly again learned to run our business differently.
During COVID-19 and what I would say is that our business volumes over the course of the past year and a half have been absolutely off the charts and we've held the line is still held true to the brand.
So.
The business kind of is the business now to the extent that there is a macro.
Any macro driven.
Change to our business volumes or to our ADR is et cetera, we have a playbook for that because we just lifted as we went through COVID-19 and we'll be ready.
We're not seeing that but we're certainly ready for for every scenario.
Okay, Alright, great. Thank you very much.
Well, thank you all for ourselves.
With that let's see I don't see it that concludes the Q2 earnings call. Thanks, everybody for your attention we look forward to talking to you again soon.
Thank you for participating on today's conference call you may now disconnect.