Q3 2023 Sunstone Hotel Investors Inc Earnings Call

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by welcome to the Sunstone Hotel Investors' third quarter 'twenty to 'twenty three earnings call.

At this time all participants are in a listen only mode.

Later, we will conduct a question answer session and instructions will be given at that time.

I'd like to remind everyone that this conference is being recorded today November 7th at 12 P M Eastern time.

I'll now turn the presentation over to Mr. Aaron Reyes Chief Financial Officer.

Please go ahead.

Okay.

Thank you operator, and good morning, everyone.

Before we begin I would like to remind everyone that this call contains forward looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including those described in our filings with the SEC, which could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected.

We caution you to consider these factors in evaluating our forward looking statements.

We also note that commentary on this call will contain non-GAAP financial information.

<unk> adjusted EBITDA R E adjust.

Adjusted <unk>.

Property level adjusted EBITDA R E.

We are providing this information as a supplement to information prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles.

Additional details on our quarterly results have been provided in our earnings release and supplemental which are available on our website.

With us on the call today are Bryan Giglia, Chief Executive Officer.

Robert Springer, President and Chief Investment Officer, and Chris <unk>, Chief operating officer.

Brian will start us off with some commentary on our third quarter operations and recent trends and also provide some additional color on our recent disposition at Boston Park Plaza.

Afterwards, Robert will discuss our capital investment activity in <unk>.

Finally, I will provide a summary of our current liquidity position recap our third quarter earnings results and provide some additional details on our outlook for the remainder of the year.

After our remarks, the team will be available to answer your question.

With that I would like to turn the call over to Brian. Please go ahead.

Thank you Aaron and good morning, everyone.

We were encouraged by our performance in the third quarter as we managed to deliver earnings that exceeded expectations. Despite moderating leisure demand and disruption at one of our largest assets following the tragic Maui fires in early August.

We have a fantastic team of associates at the wildly Beach resort and we are grateful for their dedication and resilience in recent weeks.

Later, we will share some additional details on the fires impact on our third quarter results and expectations for the remainder of the year.

Elsewhere across the portfolio, we continue to see solid attendance at group events and further growth in business transient demand.

While softer year over year performance at our Ocean front resorts offset some of the urban strength, we've worked with our operators to mitigate costs.

Which combined with savings in corporate level expenses led to EBITDA and <unk> <unk> above the high end of our guidance ranges.

Similar to Q2 growth in the third quarter was the result of robust group business and increased corporate travel.

In fact, our urban and convention hotels delivered a very strong seven 4% revpar growth in the quarter driven by gains in both occupancy and rate.

Washington D. C led the portfolio growing revpar by more than 34% in the quarter as the hotel begins to benefit from our investment to reposition it as a flagship Westin and making it one of the Premier Convention and transient hotels in the city.

The renovated hotel looks great with fantastic Guestrooms and bathrooms.

<unk> and fully redesigned meeting space, a vibrant modern lobby and the largest hotel fitness studio in the city.

The former Renaissance was re launched at the Westin, Washington D. C. Downtown last month and will contribute to meaningful growth in the coming quarters as the hotel is now attracting higher quality groups and appealing to a broader set of transient travelers.

On the other side of the country. The Hyatt Regency, San Francisco continued to rebound in the third quarter growing revpar, 20% over prior year and capturing incremental share from nearby hotels as well as those in Union square.

We remain encouraged by the hotels ongoing recovery and expect to see further growth as the hotel capitalizes on its recently renovated rooms, and abundant meeting space to create its own group compression and not solely rely on the convention center and citywide events.

We also saw strong growth at our hotels in Boston and long Beach, driven by increased business travel and corporate group events.

Consistent with recent trends operating fundamentals at our resorts continue to normalize as domestic leisure destinations faced increased competition from U S travelers going abroad without offsetting benefit of inbound foreign visitation.

This was most apparent at our Florida coastal hotels with SaaS further moderation as travelers opted for other destinations and vacation options that had been limited in the last two years.

Despite this our two Florida resorts maintain average room rates that were 45% higher than the third quarter of 2019.

While the wine country assets were also impacted by the softer leisure backdrop, they performed better than our other resorts as.

As we have discussed on prior calls we have been working with our operators to grow the group base at both at the resorts.

We began to see the benefits of those efforts in the third quarter with each resort growing EBITDA and margin even without the compression from transient demand in fact, the four seasons Napa Valley led the portfolio in total revpar growth at 30% with added contribution of robust out of rooms.

<unk> from more group events.

As we communicated during the quarter, we were very fortunate that none of the hotel associates at the wildly beach resort, where harm during the fires on Maui and that the hotel did not sustain any physical damage.

In the aftermath of the fires the hotel team partnered with the world Central kitchen to prepare and distribute more than 8600 meals to members of the community.

In addition, the hotel team has worked diligently to minimize the impact on staff and operations by quickly pivoting to alternate sources of demand in the weeks following the fires.

We estimate that the third quarter total portfolio Revpar growth was negatively impacted by 75 basis points and that EBITDA was $1 million lower as a result of the demand disruption caused by the fires.

This is on the low end of our initial estimates and speaks to the quick coordination of the hotel team and the desirability and strength of the market.

While we are certainly encouraged by how the Wilder market has performed in recent weeks the outlook that Aaron will discuss later accounts for some lingering earnings disruption in the fourth quarter that we think is prudent to plan for while we further monitor trends leading up to the high demand festive season.

Overall, the disruption from the Maui fires and a continued moderation of leisure demand at our Ocean front resorts offset the growth from our urban and convention hotels and contributed to flat revpar in the third quarter.

On an adjusted basis after factoring in the impact from wildfire, our third quarter Revpar growth was just above the midpoint of our guidance range.

We were pleased to see that out of room spend remains strong and came in above forecast again this quarter benefiting from continued increases in group activity and increased ancillary revenues.

Banquet and EV sales per group room was $222 in Q3, continuing a positive trend, which was above 2019 on a comparable basis.

Our urban and convention hotels saw strong out of room spend with Boston long Wharf Renaissance long Beach, the Westin D C. The Bidwell Marriott Portland, and Hilton San Diego Bayfront, all generating spend per group room above third quarters of 2022 and 2000 new.

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Including the robust out of room spend our portfolio generated an additional $125 of revenue per available room in the quarter for a total revpar of approximately $348 an increase of one 3% from last year.

As the demand environment evolves, we are working with our operators to drive efficiencies and mitigate costs way.

Wage growth continues to ease in most markets as more of the excess pressures come out of the labor market.

Food and beverage costs also improved relative to prior year, driven by a combination of easing inflation menu optimization and a higher mix of banquet business.

The third quarter also includes the impact of our recent property insurance renewal and the impact of the short term business mix shift and while they are following the fires.

Despite the various cost pressures.

Our total portfolio generated an EBITDA margin of 27% in the third quarter, which was only a 140 basis points lower than the same quarter in 2022, even with the headwinds from the disruption in wildfire and the impact of our property insurance renewal, which combined accounted for 90 basis points of lower.

Margin.

Now turning to segmentation our portfolio generated 186000 total group room nights in the quarter and the group segment comprise roughly 36% of total demand.

Q3 group room night volume represents approximately 90% of comparable pre pandemic amounts with average rates, 13% higher leading to total comparable group room revenue that was just ahead of the same quarter of 2019.

For the total portfolio group room rates and room nights were each higher by nearly 5% contributing to an 11% increase in year over year group room revenue.

Group production for all current and future periods. In Q3 was 160000 room nights, resulting in a three 4% increase in group production relative to last year.

Excluding the confidante, which is now under renovation.

Group pace heading into the fourth quarter is 6% higher than 2022, driven by increases in both room nights and average rates.

In terms of transient business, which accounted for 58% of our total room nights in the quarter.

Comparable rate came in at $299 or 16% higher than the pre pandemic levels. We saw in the same quarter of 2019.

For the total portfolio the transient rate was $319 and was down to the prior year driven by normalizing leisure demand and the shift in the mix of business at wildly as first responders and other event driven business came into the market at lower rates than what would typically be.

We generated from leisure guests.

Partially offsetting the decline in leisure volume was a 20% increase in revenue from the corporate negotiated channel as business travel continues to grow.

We are particularly encouraged by stronger trends at our hotels in Boston, New Orleans Long Beach, San Francisco and Portland.

Shifting gears to our recent transaction activity recently, we announced the sale of the Boston Park Plaza for $370 million.

This disposition is consistent with our lifecycle investment approach and one of the ways, we will create value going forward.

While Park Plaza has been one of our best performing hotels and it's operating at close to prior peak performance. It was also facing significant upcoming capital needs.

Which would include meaningful displacement that most likely would not provide the returns necessary to justify the total investments.

We acquired the hotel in 2013 and executed our business plan to renovate and transform the well located yet undercapitalized hotel ultimately doubling its cash flow.

While the hotel performed well for us generating $210 million of EBITDA since acquisition, we remained focused on the hotel's future return trajectory tip.

Typically as hotels get older a larger percentage of capital investment as defensive as a result of physical or functional obsolescence.

Boston Park Plaza, we were investing millions of dollars each year, just in infrastructure and building systems to keep the 100 year old building in good operating condition.

As we look forward to the next renovation we were increasingly aware that while our initial renovation play to the hotels strengths, it's public spaces, including elaborate meeting space, a grand lobby and an impressive Jim the next renovation, we need to address its shortcomings, including the 249 square foot.

Average guest room size and inadequate bathrooms, both of which will be expensive and highly disruptive to earnings.

And so it was our view that the amount of capital needed to sustain the current level of earnings was going to be meaningful and the resulting yield on our investment would most likely decrease if we were to continue to own the hotel.

So consistent with our strategy to actively recycle capital based on our investment lifecycle approach, we sold the hotel and a strong valuation an all cash deal and are actively evaluating opportunities to redeploy proceeds into assets that have a more compelling future return profile.

We have sufficient nols to offset any gains resulting from the sale and so we can be thoughtful as we evaluate reinvestment opportunities and not be constrained by the timing limitations associated with a 10 31 exchange.

In addition, the timing of the disposition aligns well with the seasonal nature of the operations as the hotel has historically not generated positive earnings from December to February, which gives us time to pursue reinvestment opportunities without the related drag on earnings.

Any of you have asked how will we deploy the proceeds.

We believe that successfully recycling this capital into a superior growth hotel is pivotal to our ability to add value and finding the right acquisition for a combination of the right acquisition and incremental share repurchase is paramount.

We are beginning to see the gap between buyers and sellers converge and we believe that we will be able to identify opportunities that have comparable initial yields no immediate capital needs and overall growth that will surpass the all in investment yield we would have generated with Boston Park Plaza.

We have time on our side to make the right capital allocation decision and we have cash which in this environment is unique and has already provided us access to direct deals.

Let me be clear.

At this moment, we are looking to acquire hotels that compelling going in yields with limited near term capital needs and where we can add value either through asset management initiatives or which present opportunities to unlock value through capital investment later in the course of our ownership.

Given the embedded future growth, we already have in the portfolio from our deep turn transformation of the Andaz Miami Beach, and the ramping resorts in wine country, a good cash flowing investment now at the right price, we'll provide diversity to our earnings maintain our strong credit metrics and still provide us with opportunity.

Each create value.

We expect to balance this with incremental share repurchases when our stock price warrants it.

To sum things up it has been a busy few months here at sunstone as we wrapped up work on one major brand conversion in Washington D C.

Started work on two others in long Beach in Miami.

Responded to the tragic situation in Mali, and completed a solid execution of the Boston sale.

And we did all of this while still focused on our day job of driving strong hotel operations, which allow us to deliver earnings ahead of expectations.

While the operating and capital markets environment present their own challenges the entire team remains committed to delivering strong returns and creating value for our shareholders.

And with that I'll turn it over to Robert to give some additional thoughts on our renovation progress and upcoming capital investments.

Thanks.

Brian noted the third quarter was a productive one for us.

After a multi year renovation, we converted the former Renaissance to the Westin, Washington D C. Downtown in early October.

Transformation has been remarkable with a fully refreshed hotel that incorporates the Westin brand signature Biophilic design elements.

We are very pleased with the initial response and the type and volume of booking the hotel is already attracting.

As some of you may have seen in our presentation from September we finalized our renovation scope for Andaz Miami Beach, and the demolition work began last month and.

In addition to the renovation scope, we outlined at the time of acquisition. We have also identified several additional ROI opportunities that we expect will enhance earnings at the resort.

We are excited to partner with Jose Andres Group to debut MS Army in Miami Beach.

This signature dining concept will not only enhance the luxury experience at the resort, but will also be a destination to attract non hotel guests to the property and drive additional revenue and earnings for us.

Our total repositioning and investment is estimated at $70 million.

And we continue to expect the hotel will deliver an 8% to 9% yield on our all in basis in the resort upon stabilization.

As we have shared with you before our business plan at <unk> is very similar to what we did at Wailea Beach resort, which is two reasonably elevate a well located resort and position it to benefit from its higher rated luxury neighboring properties.

We employed a rational approach to our underwriting which focused on the pre pandemic rate environment in Miami Beach, and while leisure travel patterns have been normalizing following tremendous upward momentum in rates coming out of the pandemic the resulting in current rates and the market are still meaningfully ahead of 2019 levels.

Which gives us increased confidence in our ability to create value at this asset.

As I noted earlier work began last month, which included the demolition of the backyard area.

The renovation work on the public spaces, and Guestrooms will occur in phases. During the first three quarters of 2024.

We will have additional details to share with you on the specific cadence of the work and its impact on our quarterly earnings as part of our fourth quarter call in February.

Elsewhere across the portfolio work is also underway to convert our Renaissance long beach to them.

The project will be substantially complete by the end of the year with a plan to relaunch the hotel under the Marriott brand in March 2024, which should drive incremental earnings at the hotel.

While the transaction market remains challenging there are deals getting done and recycling capital continues to be a primary component of our strategy.

Now that we have harvested the gain from the Boston Park Plaza, we have considerable investment capacity and we look forward to sharing additional information on our progress as we seek to redeploy these proceeds into new growth opportunities with that I'll turn it over to Aaron. Please go ahead.

Thanks, Robert the sale at Boston Park Plaza, further bolsters, but with an already strong liquidity position.

Including the net proceeds from the sale, we have nearly $540 million of total cash and cash equivalents, including restricted cash.

We retain full capacity on our credit facility, which together with cash on hand equates to over $1 billion of total liquidity.

We have addressed all debt maturities through December 2024.

And as of the end of the third quarter, our pro forma net debt and preferred equity to EBITDA stood at two six times and our net debt to EBITDA with only one four times.

As the net proceeds from the Boston Park Plaza sale will reduce overall leverage by about one turn until they are reinvested.

Shifting to our financial results the full details of which are provided in our earnings release and our supplemental.

Adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter was $64 million, which was above the high end of our guidance range driven by higher non rooms revenue.

Better margin performance across the portfolio.

Lower corporate level costs.

We estimate that our third quarter results were impacted by approximately $1 million of lower earnings due to the fires in Maui and $2 million of displaced EBITDA related to the renovation work at our hotel in Washington DC.

Adjusted <unk> for the third quarter was 23 per diluted share, which was also above the high end of our guidance range.

As we look to the fourth quarter, we expect that total portfolio Revpar will range from a decline of 3% to a decline of 6% as compared to the fourth quarter of 2022.

This range does not include Boston Park Plaza due to its sale, but does include the confidante Miami Beach, which is now under renovation.

If we exclude the cockpit on our expected year over year Revpar change in the fourth quarter ranges from a decline of a half a percent to a decline of three 5%.

Both of these estimated revpar growth ranges include the Renaissance long Beach, which is currently undergoing renovation work in advance of its conversion to a Marriott and which is contributing to 75 basis points of lower growth in the fourth quarter.

But should turn into a tailwind starting in the second quarter of next year.

For reference the Q4 2022 Revpar for the current total portfolio was $211 and the Q4 of 2022 revpar, excluding the confidence was $212.

We estimate that fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA R E will range from $48 million to $53 million and our adjusted <unk> per diluted share will range from 14 to 17.

Given the seasonal nature of operations at Boston Park Plaza, we expect that the earnings generated during our ownership period and a partial month of October combined with the interest income on the net proceeds we will receive for November and December will account for the vast majority of the earnings that we would have reported had we owned the Ho.

<unk> for the full quarter.

While we have been pleasantly surprised by how the wildland market has performed in the weeks and suppliers as Brian alluded to earlier, we have adjusted our fourth quarter outlook for the resort downward to account for some lingering risks as we move into the busy holiday period.

Which together with the variance related to the Boston sale.

Results in 2 million to $3 million of lower EBITDA in Q4, as compared to our expectations as of the prior quarter.

For the fourth quarter was expected to be the most challenged at the year in terms of top line growth.

We're encouraged by the recent short term booking trends, we are seeing across the portfolio.

Weekly transient pickup for the next six months has exceeded last year for each of the prior four weeks. This is in part driven by recent strength in wire layer, where our room nights on the books for the peak festive period are now ahead of last year.

As we noted in our press release. This morning, we now expect our full year total capital investment in the portfolio to be between $110 million to $120 million.

Which is a reduction of $25 million as compared to the midpoint of our initial range at the start of the year.

As we now expect a larger portion of the investment associated with the conversion of Andaz Miami Beach to be incurred in 2024 as opposed to the current year.

Based on the renovation timelines, we expect to incur a total of 12 million to $13 million of EBITDA displacement in 2023 with approximately $9 $5 million of that total already incurred through the third quarter.

As Robert mentioned earlier, we will share additional details with you regarding our 2024 capital plan as part of our next quarterly earnings call.

Now shifting to our return of capital.

Since the end of the second quarter, we repurchased $16 million of additional stock, bringing our year to date total to $38 million.

At an average price of $9 26 per share a meaningful discount to consensus estimates of NAV and.

And a compelling <unk> multiple on our earnings.

We anticipate that our board will declare a fourth quarter cash common dividend that will include our recently increased regular quarterly amount of <unk> <unk> per share.

That's an additional amount intended to more fully distribute our expected taxable income for the year.

Similar to our practice prior to the pandemic, we expect to declare this dividend in December which will be payable to shareholders of record as of the end of the year.

Separate from the common dividend the board has already declared the routine distributions for our series G H Ni preferred securities.

And with that we can now open the call to questions.

So that we're able to speak with as many participants as possible. We ask that you. Please limit yourself to one question.

Operator, Please go ahead.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session I would like to ask a question simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.

I would like to withdraw your question Press Star one again.

Your first question comes from the line of Dori Kesten with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Hi, Thanks.

One one and a half questions.

The pushback of Capex spend do you still expect the renovation and rebranding of the Andaz Miami Beach B can be completed in 2004.

Good morning Dori.

Yes, with the with the movement that we had in the spend.

That's really just fine tuning.

When we're when the money will be will be.

Going out the door and has really nothing to do with our ultimate completion dates.

We just have we had a little bit more ability to.

In the beginning we werent.

We didn't have the schedule of Lockdowns that we didn't know exactly when things would start and when money will start going out the door, but now that we have.

Been able to.

Start the construction, which is.

Going on right now.

We just fine tuned with our spend would be and when that would be.

So the completion date is still on target.

Okay, and then can.

Can you just walk through your material headwinds in tailwind to EBITDA that you have.

That you can see today 24, just beyond general market conditions.

Sure so starting with.

The markets that we're in.

For 'twenty four.

From a citywide standpoint.

D. C is a is a strong market in New Orleans, and San Diego are all strong citywide.

Citywide calendar next year.

We'll also benefit from the coughing Ofer.

The renovation and then also the benefits of those.

We're seeing with the western brand, which should come in.

In group room nights, and transient room nights and also in rates.

Think pace is up pretty significantly for the hotel next year.

As we start working back to our target group room.

Budget that we have for that so success in D. C is going to be making sure that we we layer on the right mix of a group at the right time of year DC does have some seasonality to it so in the prime time really leveraging off the western brand and being able to get the higher end.

Corporate group and then bringing in higher end Association and some of the shoulder periods, two and then using the.

The appeal of the brand.

To drive more transient business.

Then we were able to as a as a Renaissance.

Looking out.

As the others, obviously, we have the <unk> that will be under under construction.

Until the end of the year, so that will be a headwind.

Long Beach as Aaron mentioned, we have it in there.

The renovation starting in Q4. This year will go into Q1 of next year, and then start to ramp up after that and so.

The brand change will be beneficial to the hotel.

The renovation is really.

Slightly upgraded routine renovation that we would have done anyway, and so the timeframe is pretty condensed.

And the disruption period will be will be minimal.

Looking out.

For the rest of next year also.

Okay.

As far as far as the rest of the portfolio, we would expect the urban and group hotels to continue to.

To lead Theres, probably some more occupancy.

In the portfolio is when you look at the composition between occupancy and rate, we probably expect to get a little bit more occupancy next year.

And then.

Certain markets San Francisco is rough on the citywide calendar, but based on our <unk>.

<unk> ability to drive in House group and take advantage of the corporate and business transient travel that we've found.

In the in the financial area and Embarcadero.

Expect to continue that but that market.

We have significant year over year growth. This year, that's obviously going slow as as the hotel.

Lapse over the comps from this year.

Okay. Thanks, Brian.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Smedes Rose with Citi. Please go ahead.

Hi, Thanks, I just wanted to ask you if you could talk a little bit more about.

The transaction market and maybe how youre thinking about the new deployment.

It sounds like you'd like to go in at stabilized yields of maybe the sort of longer term opportunities that return, but not kind of the massive conversions.

Opportunity necessarily like Youre doing it.

It is now and I'm just wondering if those deals available at 12 times EBITDA or are you willing to maybe pay a slightly higher going in because you feel like a return to get.

A better value I guess, just help us sort of think about your thoughts there and maybe what kinds of hotels, we're looking at urban resort.

All things equal.

Absolutely good morning Smedes.

So when you just spend a second on the transaction market and then move to US specifically, so we mentioned on the call that we are starting to see some convergence in buyer and seller expectations.

To add to that that is more.

Skewed to the.

Urban and group hotels than the resort hotels.

I think what we're seeing now is pricing is more.

Is closer to our expectations and more rationale on that type of hotels and resorts. The resorts are obviously.

Trying to determine what the normalized leisure demand is the last couple of quarters have obviously been soft and many resort and hire and resort markets.

Combine that with some coastal insurance costs.

And what the resorts were doing.

Nine to 12 months ago sellers, sometimes get locked in on the value and it takes a while to two.

Come to.

Our view of what the current market is so when talking about the types of hotel.

I think it would be more likely that we're going to find what we are looking for and again you mentioned it but what we're looking for is a strong going in yield.

We.

When we look at recycling out of Boston and.

In Boston is a great market and Boston Park Plaza is a great hotel and we talked about the menu reasons why.

It was time for our ownership to be to be done there.

Our strong yield going into to come close to or match that is going to be important.

Minimal near term capital is.

Near term capital needs.

We will be important also we have we have our big turn going on.

We have we have DC that came off of renovation and is now ramping up which is fantastic.

On doors, where we believe we are adding significant value, but we're also.

We understand that we have a portfolio right now of 14 hotels. So we can have for on <unk> or two <unk> at the same time.

Too disruptive.

And so that is while it's something maybe if an asset has something longer term that we can we can queue up for a year or two or three down the road that's great, but that's not something we're looking for right now.

And.

And we are I mean, the other thing that we have we have cash and so we do have access to more direct deals people are coming to us now.

We have to make sure that we're finding this REIT deal and while in an ideal world. We would do a 10 31 exchange and that's how it's set up right now.

With a portion of the proceeds from Boston.

We don't have to do that we have Nols, we have seasonality from Boston is on our side that will ease the SSO impact for a while but at the end of the day.

We need to make the right transaction or the right balance of transactions, which will.

It is.

As important to the portfolio too.

Deviate any sort of concentration risks, we may have to add diversity of the portfolio into our cash flow stream, but it's at the end of the day it will be a balance between that and.

Other opportunities, which will in the near term.

To be share repurchase.

It has been.

Part of our capital allocation strategy and execution over the last eight quarters.

And.

We will most likely continue to be so.

Where we're focused on finding the right deal for the portfolio, we're not going to be rushed into doing it and where.

We are aware of other opportunities we have to deploy capital.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. Thank you.

Thanks Smedes.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Duane <unk> with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Thank you.

What sort of payout ratio are you targeting for the top top up dividend and <unk> basically annual as a percent of <unk>.

Good morning, Duane I'll start I'll start with that and.

And then Aaron can get into some of the specifics.

We're targeting to distribute 100% of our taxable income.

That's in the payout ratio, sometimes is easier for other asset classes.

For lodging.

And feedback we've received from shareholders is that.

Payout your taxable income.

And in last quarter we.

We up the our base dividend <unk> <unk> a share to reflect on a run rate basis.

Close to where our taxable income would be in.

Multi year basis, knowing that it's almost impossible to do and lodging to set that because of the cash flows and the cash flow will move.

And so if you look at that on a run rate basis, you've got two quarters of the <unk> and the <unk>.

Embedded catch up there and then whatever our taxable income is for the rest.

We will then pay out that balance and yes, yes, so just to add in some extra color to what Brian retain so now ultimately the final determination of the amount of the dividend will be something that the board decisions, but.

Decide but I can kind of share with you some of the data points that might go into that decision, making process. So as Brian noted, we did increase our kind of a regular run rate dividend by about 40% from five to seven cents per share.

And then as we have done in the past we have sized the catch up by the top up dividend as you noted to effectively approximate our remaining undistributed taxable income and so thats a number thats going to kind of continue to move around as we move towards the end of the year, but I think kind of a realistic run rate for that right now might be an incremental call. It.

$5 seven per share in addition to the base quarterly.

<unk> centre amount, so that we'd be looking at something kind of in the neighborhood of 12, <unk> 12 to <unk> 14 per share and then as Brian had alluded to.

D D.

Increased seven run rate would effectively have picked up and distributed the bulk of that income had we assumed had been in place for Q1 to Q4 <unk>.

In addition to the dividend. We've also have done the share repurchase activity that Brian mentioned, so we'll be back.

<unk> in December consistent with past practice to declare that final dividend and so once the board has made the decision will make that known.

Okay, Great and then just on the wine country assets can you speak to what drove the improvement I know you talked about some revenue management changes and tweaks in the past. It was it was it more cost savings or anything you could highlight that.

You felt drove that improvement thanks for taking the questions.

Absolutely.

It was a bit of everything it was we've talked about the strategy of.

Adding the right amount of group into these hotels.

Which we were able to realize in the quarter.

Still working against a difficult leisure backdrop, especially a luxury leisure backdrop. So when you look at the two hotels. The four seasons had much more group on the books than montage did.

But when you look at when you look at this type of hotel when you look at <unk>, even a San Diego.

It helps to not only focus it at Revpar, but also to look at total revpar and while.

Revpar was was down.

At montage and up at four seasons.

Total Revpar was was close to flat at montage and up significantly at four seasons and the reason for that is is that to get the group business and there you want to rationalize the rates and to make sure that the rate is the appropriate rate because in each of the hotels.

Youre getting somewhere between $801000 a night per group room of ancillary spend.

That combined with some of the.

Efficiency initiatives that we started to undertake.

Beginning at the montage and then rolling some of those over to the four seasons of montage is farther ahead at that point and you can see that in the profitability. So it really is bringing in the right group, bringing in the right group at the right price and then.

Making the operation is as efficient as possible and in Q3, we <unk>.

Just.

We start to see what these.

Resorts can produce.

And once that leisure component starts to come in.

Will will.

We will then be able to really realize what these with these resorts can do.

Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Michael Bellisario with Baird. Please go ahead.

Thanks, Good morning, everyone.

Good morning, Mike.

Just one more clarification on the tax if you don't do a 10 31, youll have less or maybe presumably no Nols last for 24 and beyond. So then you'd have more upward pressure on the dividend in the out years is that correct. If theres. No 10, 31 is that the right way to think about the buckets.

Okay.

If there is so.

So first of all with the Nols, we're sitting at yes.

Yes, Mike.

The gain is anticipated for the sale of Boston is approximately $150 million or so that is within our the amount of Nols that we have in totality, which is a kind of around $350 million or so so we would have incremental capacity on top of <unk>.

The Boston talents. Indeed, we did not 10 31 that transact. So we would so we would still have several hundred million dollars of Nols to shield future in gaming.

And then just from a.

Technical standpoint, then if you look at if you were to do a 10 31.

Might you go back far enough and for those that do.

Boston basis was a continuation of the Rochester basis, and so that depreciation shield of that hotel is is not.

Not as large as you would expect it to be given the size of the hotel and so if we were to do a 10 31, then that lower basis would go into the new acquisition if for whatever reason, we did not find.

Something appropriate within the 10 31 timeframe and we were to use our Nols to shield that we would actually and then and then actually acquire something we would have a higher depreciation basis, which we put less pressure on dividends going forward. Because then our basis with step up to the actual value of.

Whatever asset you are buying.

Got it helpful and that is from the way back machine.

My second question just on the expense side, probably for Aaron just can you walk through some of the margin headwinds that you saw in the third quarter and then what's embedded in your fourth quarter guidance on the margin front. Thank you.

Sure. So again I think the one that's most obvious that we've been well publicized is property insurance. So as we think about the REIT.

<unk>.

The renewal that we did was on effectively July one. So Q3 was the first quarter of the new run rate and that accounts for about 60 basis points.

Of margin headwind and then on top of that we had an incremental 30 basis points.

Margin headwind just from the situation.

While I am there kind of a change in the mix of business.

And that we have there.

Elsewhere across the portfolio, we've seen some moderation in <unk>.

Wage rates.

And that kind of 4% to 5% area and then a bit of relief and utilities in a couple of other operating expenses, but the primary one headwind it was property insurance renewal.

Okay.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Chris <unk> with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning, guys.

Great Chris.

Good morning, So was the announcement on Renaissance long beach going to marry you guys.

I think we will have one Renaissance last write down in Orlando I know you've sold or.

Converting a bunch so I guess the next logical question is there a.

Is there a kind of a next next up plan for the Orlando Renaissance.

Good question.

So.

Trying to pick what brand is best for any asset.

Sometimes their brands just not available.

It's already in the market Theres area of protections theirs.

Duration, and so that that always comes into play and there's there is if you look at the Orlando market. There is there's a lot of everything there.

So that would be the first hurdle.

When looking at the Renaissance brand and what we found because we have been a large owner of Renaissance over time is that.

It's it's kind of a bifurcated.

Results and what I mean by that is from a group perspective, if you have a great group box and you have good meeting space.

And.

Good amenities and.

High service levels.

It can really perform well the Renaissance Washington D. C from a group perspective did a fantastic job it held its own and it.

Kept market share.

<unk> performed really well, where it didn't do as well with on the transient side, because while a group customer can come in understand the product and work it and see what they are their clients are going to get.

The transient customer doesn't have that ability and so they go with what theyre familiar with or what they have experience with the Westin brand from a transient standpoint is just much better Marriott brand as a stronger.

Better identifiable brand.

So in Orlando, we have fantastic meeting space, we have the ability to give the group.

More space per group room than they would typically get in another hotel. We also while it's almost 800 room hotel.

It's smaller when you look at the site.

The size hotels that you can find in Orlando and so our group can have run of house and they can they can control.

Theyre not group number two or three in house. They can be the main growth and so reasons like that Orlando has done really well from a leisure standpoint in Orlando, it's always going to fall behind the parks, it's going to.

It's a.

Sort of a convenient in between location between Universal and Disney, but it's in between Universal and Disney too and so from that standpoint.

Think Orlando can continue to do very well.

As is now there may be some things longer term that we can do to make it a little bit more appealing to a leisure side.

Given that market, but as far as.

What we've done with some of the other hotels does that mean, we have to do something with Orlando Orlando can do just fine.

And really do well as a as a renaissance as it has done.

Okay got it very helpful. Thanks for all the color Brian.

Thanks, Chris.

Thank you and next question comes from the line of Anthony Powell with Barclays. Please go ahead.

Hi, Good morning, I guess a question on Maui steamboat.

Seems like trends before the wildfires were actually pretty good, especially relative to some of the other leisure markets.

You see Maui in terms of this normalization.

Brian we talked about across leisure is there more to come there do you think Maui maybe also.

Some of that normalization once you kind of factor out the impact of the wildfires.

Okay. Good morning, Anthony.

Maui Maui had done really well last year into this year and didn't.

I didn't see the initial wave of.

Leisure normalization.

As some of the other coastal markets.

Our expectation for Q3 prior to the fire was that we were going to start to see that in Maui and.

That we would see some leisure pullback.

And we were starting to see that in the beginning of the quarter and then we at that point right priced prior to the fire we started seeing transient.

Reservations pickup and so we were encouraged that Maui was going to weather that storm pretty well.

And then unfortunately, the fire happened and that that changed the dynamic of the entire market and change while layer for a period of time, where it just the mix of business with completely different and the hotel did.

<unk> did a fantastic job of taking care of all the associates at the hotel and then taking care of the guests which were not there typical guests. They were guests that were either displaced or going to help during the day and so while the hotel was running at a decent occupancy there was really no went around during the day and thats not really how that Houghton.

<unk> works.

And so.

One we've been very pleasantly surprised at how quickly the market and the <unk> market has reverted back to its normal business.

And <unk>.

As we go forward.

When we look into Q4 there is some.

On the shoulder periods and going into <unk>.

Through October and into November.

Little League.

Leisure is softer than what it was but we are.

Really encouraged by what we're seeing with during the festive weeks. So once you get into the holiday season.

We're actually trending ahead of last year and <unk>.

Like we saw before the fires.

Back in July and so at the beginning of August we're starting to see that transient pick up again.

Going into the fourth quarter and into next year. So yes. The answer is is theres been a lot of a lot of change happening in Maui over the last few months, so we're going to need to see how things normalized.

But from what we've seen so far.

It's more encouraging than maybe some of the other leisure markets, but to your initial question. It is not immune from it.

But it is it is seems to have fared better.

What we're seeing right now is definitely encouraging.

Alright, thank you.

Thank you. Your final question comes from the line of Floris Van <unk> with Compass point. Please go ahead.

Hey, Thanks for taking my question, Brian maybe just to follow up on Smedes question in terms of.

Reinvesting some of the some of the proceeds.

You talked a little bit about some of the things you are considering obviously one of the other things to think about is have you considered.

As opposed to buying one assets splitting that up into two assets or reducing the capital need other tax implications with that or can you still.

10, 30 wanted if you split it among a couple of assets.

Yes, you can definitely exchange anymore for US you can definitely exchange into multiple assets.

And Thats something that we are absolutely looking at.

As.

Additional diversity in the portfolio would be a plus.

So that's something where we're absolutely evaluating again.

I think based on what we're seeing now.

It looks like it is skewed more towards the urban group type hotels.

And again it doesn't have to be <unk>.

It doesn't have to be and it will not be all or nothing.

It can be a partial 10 31 exchange and then we might wait for a bit if we're not finding that youll remember we understand that it's important to.

If we're trying to deploy capital into an asset right now it has to be a good deal.

And we are out there.

Trying to identify and using the leverage we have to find a good deal.

It doesn't then we will let the 10 31 expire and we have the option to use the Nols to two <unk>.

Hold on to that capital, but then we will also most likely be deploying that capital into our own stock depending on where our prices.

And that.

I think over the last two years, we've given a lot of data points of where we think that that prices so that.

That's something where I think we've been as active as anyone.

Sure.

Have have demonstrated that we.

Our absolutely not shy of deploying money through our.

Into our own currency so.

The answer to your question, yes, it can be multiple assets it may be multiple assets and maybe one asset.

We will we'll have more information.

As time goes on and we will absolutely update.

Investors in the market on that.

And maybe if I can have the follow on on that.

What we're hearing from the market, obviously is that larger assets because the financing markets are more difficult.

Tend to trade at bigger discounts than smaller assets.

How do you weigh those two with potentially buying smaller assets that might where the bite sizes.

Maybe $100 million or less.

First is maybe getting a perhaps slightly more attractive yield on something that is a.

A larger size.

It is.

Like everything its a balance and it depends on the opportunity and.

No.

Is there a size that while it could be a good deal might start to get too large or four.

Create concentration risks in the portfolio and Thats, something we would have to evaluate.

I think our.

The sweet spot here of what we would be looking for would be something to deploy a portion of the proceeds into and leave some.

Some remaining proceeds to to deploy.

Through through stock or through another asset at a later time.

But if you look at what we've done in the past.

I think we've been pretty balanced.

So that's that's what we'll continue to look to to achieve.

Thanks, Brian.

Thank you.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time I will now turn the call back over to Bryan Giglia, Chief Executive Officer for closing remarks. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Thank you everyone for your interest and we look forward to seeing you at upcoming conferences.

And meetings over the next month or two thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining and you may now disconnect your lines.

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