Q2 2023 Urban One Inc Earnings Call

December 7, 2023

Momentarily please continue to hold.

[music].

Yeah.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to Urban One's first half 2023 conference call. During this conference call Urban One will be sharing with you certain projections or other forward looking statements regarding future events, or it's future performance. Urban One cautions you that certain factors, including risks and uncertainties referred to in the 10-Ks, 10-Qs and other reports it periodically files with the Securities and Exchange Commission could cause the company's actual results to differ materially from those indicated by it's projections or forward looking statements. This call will present information as of December 7th 2023. Please note that Urban One disclaims any duty to update any forward looking statements made in the presentation. In this call Urban One may also discuss some non-GAAP financial measures in talking about its performance. These measures will be reconciled to GAAP either during the course of this call, or in the company's press release, which can be found on its website at www.urbanone.com. A replay of the conference call will be available from 12 o'clock noon today, running through midnight at December 14th. Callers may access the replay by dialing 18662071041. International Dialers may call 4029700847, the replay access code is 3718185. Access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on Urban One's corporate website at www.urbanone.com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call, no other recordings or copies of this call are authorized or may be relied upon. And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

Operator: Urban One cautions you that certain factors, including risks and uncertainties referred to in the 10-Ks, 10-Qs and other reports it periodically files with the Securities and Exchange Commission could cause the company's actual results to differ materially from those indicated by it's projections or forward looking statements. This call will present information as of December 7th 2023. Please note that Urban One disclaims any duty to update any forward looking statements made in the presentation. In this call Urban One may also discuss some non-GAAP financial measures in talking about its performance. These measures will be reconciled to GAAP either during the course of this call, or in the company's press release, which can be found on its website at www.urbanone.com. A replay of the conference call will be available from 12 o'clock noon today, running through midnight at December 14th. Callers may access the replay by dialing 18662071041. International Dialers may call 4029700847, the replay access code is 3718185. Access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on Urban One's corporate website at www.urbanone.com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call, no other recordings or copies of this call are authorized or may be relied upon. And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

In the 10, Ks 10, Qs and other reports it periodically files with Securities and Exchange Commission could cause the company's actual results to differ materially from those indicated by its projections or forward looking statements.

This call will present information as of December 7th 2023. Please note that urban one disclaims any duty to update any forward looking statements made in the presentation.

Operator: This call will present information as of December 7th 2023. Please note that Urban One disclaims any duty to update any forward looking statements made in the presentation. In this call Urban One may also discuss some non-GAAP financial measures in talking about its performance. These measures will be reconciled to GAAP either during the course of this call, or in the company's press release, which can be found on its website at www.urbanone.com. A replay of the conference call will be available from 12 o'clock noon today, running through midnight at December 14th. Callers may access the replay by dialing 18662071041. International Dialers may call 4029700847, the replay access code is 3718185. Access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on Urban One's corporate website at www.urbanone.com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call, no other recordings or copies of this call are authorized or may be relied upon. And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

Operator: This call will present information as of December 7th 2023. Please note that Urban One disclaims any duty to update any forward looking statements made in the presentation.

In this call urban one may also discuss some non-GAAP financial measures in talking about its performance. These measures will be reconciled to GAAP either during the course of this call or in the company's press release, which can be found on its website at www dot urban one dot com.

Operator: In this call Urban One may also discuss some non-GAAP financial measures in talking about its performance. These measures will be reconciled to GAAP either during the course of this call, or in the company's press release, which can be found on its website at www.urbanone.com. A replay of the conference call will be available from 12 o'clock noon today, running through midnight at December 14th. Callers may access the replay by dialing 18662071041. International Dialers may call 4029700847, the replay access code is 3718185. Access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on Urban One's corporate website at www.urbanone.com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call, no other recordings or copies of this call are authorized or may be relied upon. And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

Operator: In this call Urban One may also discuss some non-GAAP financial measures in talking about its performance.

Operator: These measures will be reconciled to GAAP either during the course of this call, or in the company's press release, which can be found on its website at www.urbanone.com. A replay of the conference call will be available from 12 o'clock noon today, running through midnight at December 14th. Callers may access the replay by dialing 18662071041. International Dialers may call 4029700847, the replay access code is 3718185. Access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on Urban One's corporate website at www.urbanone.com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call, no other recordings or copies of this call are authorized or may be relied upon. And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

Operator: These measures will be reconciled to GAAP either during the course of this call, or in the company's press release, which can be found on its website at www.urbanone.com.

A replay of the conference call will be available from 12 o'clock noon today running through midnight December 14th callers may access the replay by dialing 18662071041 International Dialers may call for zero to 90 7008.

Operator: A replay of the conference call will be available from 12 o'clock noon today, running through midnight at December 14th. Callers may access the replay by dialing 18662071041. International Dialers may call 4029700847, the replay access code is 3718185. Access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on Urban One's corporate website at www.urbanone.com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call, no other recordings or copies of this call are authorized or may be relied upon. And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

Four seven the replay access code is 3718185 access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on urban one's corporate website at www Dot urban one dot com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call no other <unk>.

Operator: Access to live audio and a replay of the conference call will also be available on Urban One's corporate website at www.urbanone.com. The replay will be made available on the website for seven days after the call, no other recordings or copies of this call are authorized or may be relied upon. And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

Boardings or copies of this call are authorized or maybe relied upon.

Operator: And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of Urban One who is joined by Peter D. Thompson, Chief Financial Officer.

And I'll turn the call over to Alfred C. Liggins, Chief Executive Officer of urban one who is joined by Peter D Thompson Chief Financial Officer.

Alfred C. Liggins: Thank you very much operator, and welcome everyone to our first half conference call for 2023, with me also in addition to Peter D. Thompson is Kris Simpson, who is our General Counsel and Jody Drewer, who is our chief financial officer at TV One. Yeah, we really start earnings GAAP on the Q1 and Q2 commentary radio in the first half of the year was decent and is showing softness in the second half of the year. The cable TV business struggled in the first half of the year due to ratings and churn in ADU Q1 in particular, however that has actually stabilized going into the back half of the year, so they flip flop. Our digital business is actually moving along as planned and is surprising to the upside in Q4. And with all of that, we are comfortable continuing to reaffirm our full year EBITDA guidance to the range of $125 million to $128 million dollars of EBITDA. This is also the first call we've had with our investment in MGM being fully monetized and it's showing in our cash balance and we have then to one large investor conference and gotten a lot of questions about what are our plans for our cash now that our Richmond referendum for the casino investment, failed to pass for a second time. And so we're thinking through all of those things now and certainly debt pay down is something that is a top consideration and so we're going to be happy to talk more about that in Q&A, if if anybody wants to get a bit more granular on it. With that I want to turn it over to Peter so he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then we'll open it up to Q&A and. Thank you.

For 2023 with me also in addition to Peter Thompson as Kris Simpson, who is our general counsel and Jody <unk>, who is our chief financial officer at TV one.

Yeah, we really start earnings got the.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, we really start earnings GAAP on the Q1 and Q2 commentary radio in the first half of the year was decent and is showing softness in the second half of the year. The cable TV business struggled in the first half of the year due to ratings and churn in ADU Q1 in particular, however that has actually stabilized going into the back half of the year, so they flip flop. Our digital business is actually moving along as planned and is surprising to the upside in Q4. And with all of that, we are comfortable continuing to reaffirm our full year EBITDA guidance to the range of $125 million to $128 million dollars of EBITDA. This is also the first call we've had with our investment in MGM being fully monetized and it's showing in our cash balance and we have then to one large investor conference and gotten a lot of questions about what are our plans for our cash now that our Richmond referendum for the casino investment, failed to pass for a second time. And so we're thinking through all of those things now and certainly debt pay down is something that is a top consideration and so we're going to be happy to talk more about that in Q&A, if if anybody wants to get a bit more granular on it. With that I want to turn it over to Peter so he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then we'll open it up to Q&A and. Thank you.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, we really start earnings GAAP on the Q1 and Q2 commentary radio in the first half of the year was decent and is showing softness in the second half of the year.

The Q1 and Q2.

Commentary.

Radio in the first half of the year.

Was.

With <unk> and is showing softness in the second half.

Alfred C. Liggins: The cable TV business struggled in the first half of the year due to ratings and churn in ADU Q1 in particular, however that has actually stabilized going into the back half of the year, so they flip flop. Our digital business is actually moving along as planned and is surprising to the upside in Q4. And with all of that, we are comfortable continuing to reaffirm our full year EBITDA guidance to the range of $125 million to $128 million dollars of EBITDA. This is also the first call we've had with our investment in MGM being fully monetized and it's showing in our cash balance and we have then to one large investor conference and gotten a lot of questions about what are our plans for our cash now that our Richmond referendum for the casino investment, failed to pass for a second time. And so we're thinking through all of those things now and certainly debt pay down is something that is a top consideration and so we're going to be happy to talk more about that in Q&A, if if anybody wants to get a bit more granular on it. With that I want to turn it over to Peter so he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then we'll open it up to Q&A and. Thank you.

Of the year the cable.

Cable TV business struggled in the first half of the year due to ratings and churn in 80 new.

Q1 in particular, however that has actually stabilized going into the.

The back half of the year, so they flip flop.

Alfred C. Liggins: Our digital business is actually moving along as planned and is surprising to the upside in Q4. And with all of that, we are comfortable continuing to reaffirm our full year EBITDA guidance to the range of $125 million to $128 million dollars of EBITDA. This is also the first call we've had with our investment in MGM being fully monetized and it's showing in our cash balance and we have then to one large investor conference and gotten a lot of questions about what are our plans for our cash now that our Richmond referendum for the casino investment, failed to pass for a second time. And so we're thinking through all of those things now and certainly debt pay down is something that is a top consideration and so we're going to be happy to talk more about that in Q&A, if if anybody wants to get a bit more granular on it. With that I want to turn it over to Peter so he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then we'll open it up to Q&A and. Thank you.

Our digital business is actually.

Moving along as planned and is surprising to.

To the to the upside.

And.

In Q4.

With all of that we are comfortable continuing to reaffirm our full year EBITDA.

And so the range of $1 $25 million to $128 million of EBITDA.

Alfred C. Liggins: This is also the first call we've had with our investment in MGM being fully monetized and it's showing in our cash balance and we have then to one large investor conference and gotten a lot of questions about what are our plans for our cash now that our Richmond referendum for the casino investment, failed to pass for a second time. And so we're thinking through all of those things now and certainly debt pay down is something that is a top consideration and so we're going to be happy to talk more about that in Q&A, if if anybody wants to get a bit more granular on it. With that I want to turn it over to Peter so he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then we'll open it up to Q&A and. Thank you.

This is.

Also.

The first call we've had with our.

Our investment in MGM being fully monetize and it's showing in our cash balance and we have.

Then to one large investor conference and gotten a lot of questions about what are our plans for our our cash now that our Richmond referendum for.

The casino investment.

Alfred C. Liggins: And so we're thinking through all of those things now and certainly debt pay down is something that is a top consideration and so we're going to be happy to talk more about that in Q&A, if if anybody wants to get a bit more granular on it. With that I want to turn it over to Peter so he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then we'll open it up to Q&A and. Thank you.

Failed to pass for a second time.

And so we're thinking through all of those things.

Now.

And.

Certainly debt pay down is something.

Something that is a consideration and so we're going to be happy to talk more about that.

<unk> Q&A, if if anybody wants to.

Alfred C. Liggins: With that I want to turn it over to Peter so he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then we'll open it up to Q&A and. Thank you.

It's a bit more granular on it with that I want to turn it over to Peter So he can go into the specifics on the numbers and then well open it up to Q&A and.

Thank you.

Peter D. Thompson: Thank you Alfred so for the first six months consolidated net revenue was up three 8% year over year. The Indianapolis Radio acquisition added approximately $7 6 million and the reach cruise event generated $10 1 million in the second quarter. It was absent from 2022, so normalizing for those two items net revenue was down three 9% or down three 2% excluding political advertising. Net revenue for the radio segment increased eight 3% year over year, but decreased one 3% on a same station basis, excluding political net revenues increased by 1% on a same station basis. According to Miller Kaplan and on a same station basis local AD sales were down four 6% against the market that was down two 7% National AD sales were down two 4% against the market that was down seven 7%. The radio spot markets were down one 6% in Q1 and down six 8% in Q2. What markets were down seven 5% in Q3. And we finished Q3 down 0.6% overall down 14.4% on a same station basis and down 12% on a same station basis, excluding political. For Q4, we're currently pacing down 11, 6% all in. 21, 2% same station and down 10, 1% same station ex political with. National down, 26% local down two 1%. So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, Although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3. Net revenue for reach media was $31 million for the first half of the year that included the $10 1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic voyage cruise event. Compared to $21 1 million last year, adjusted EBITDA was $8 1 million, including $1 $75 million from the cruise most down from $8 $6 million last year. Advertising revenue was down for the first half of the year and affiliate station compensation expense was up. Net revenue for the cable TV segment was $102 $1 million for the first half of the year a decrease of six 8% cable TV advertising revenue was down five 8%. All three and a half million dollars with an unfavorable rate volume impact $2 million. An additional $1 3 million. Hugh. Fishing C P. P 25, 54 prime delivery was down 31% in Q1 and down 21% in Q2.

Peter D. Thompson: Thank you Alfred. So for the first six months consolidated net revenue was up 3.8% year over year. The Indianapolis Radio acquisition added approximately $7.6 million dollars and the Reach cruise event generated $10.1 million in the second quarter, it was absent from 2022, so normalizing for those two items net revenue was down 3.9% or down 3.2% excluding political advertising. Net revenue for the radio segment increased 8.3% year over year, but decreased 1.3% on a same station basis, excluding political, net revenues increased by 1% on a same station basis. According to Miller Kaplan and on a same station basis our local AD sales were down 4.6% against the market a was down 2.7% National AD sales were down 2.4% against the market that was down 7.7%. The radio spot markets were down 1.6% in Q1 and down 6.8% in Q2. Spot markets were down 7.5% in Q3 and we finished Q3 down 0.6% overall, down 14.4% on a same station basis and down 12% on a same station basis, excluding political. For Q4, we're currently pacing down 11.6% all in, down 21.2% same station and down 10.1% same station ex-political, with National dow 26%, local down 2.1%. So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3. Net revenue for reach media was $31 million dollars for the first half of the year, that included the $10.1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic Voyage cruise event and that compared to $21.1 million last year. Adjusted EBITDA was $8.1 million, including $1.75 million from the cruise, most down from $8.6 million last year.

Peter D. Thompson: Thank you Alfred. So for the first six months consolidated net revenue was up 3.8% year over year.

The Indianapolis Radio acquisition added approximately $7 6 million and the reach cruise event generated $10 1 million in the second quarter.

Peter D. Thompson: The Indianapolis Radio acquisition added approximately $7.6 million dollars and the Reach cruise event generated $10.1 million in the second quarter, it was absent from 2022, so normalizing for those two items net revenue was down 3.9% or down 3.2% excluding political advertising. Net revenue for the radio segment increased 8.3% year over year, but decreased 1.3% on a same station basis, excluding political, net revenues increased by 1% on a same station basis. According to Miller Kaplan and on a same station basis our local AD sales were down 4.6% against the market a was down 2.7% National AD sales were down 2.4% against the market that was down 7.7%. The radio spot markets were down 1.6% in Q1 and down 6.8% in Q2. Spot markets were down 7.5% in Q3 and we finished Q3 down 0.6% overall, down 14.4% on a same station basis and down 12% on a same station basis, excluding political. For Q4, we're currently pacing down 11.6% all in, down 21.2% same station and down 10.1% same station ex-political, with National dow 26%, local down 2.1%. So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3. Net revenue for reach media was $31 million dollars for the first half of the year, that included the $10.1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic Voyage cruise event and that compared to $21.1 million last year. Adjusted EBITDA was $8.1 million, including $1.75 million from the cruise, most down from $8.6 million last year.

It was absent from 2022, so normalizing for those two items net revenue was down three 9% or down three 2% excluding political advertising.

Peter D. Thompson: Net revenue for the radio segment increased 8.3% year over year, but decreased 1.3% on a same station basis, excluding political, net revenues increased by 1% on a same station basis. According to Miller Kaplan and on a same station basis our local AD sales were down 4.6% against the market a was down 2.7% National AD sales were down 2.4% against the market that was down 7.7%. The radio spot markets were down 1.6% in Q1 and down 6.8% in Q2. Spot markets were down 7.5% in Q3 and we finished Q3 down 0.6% overall, down 14.4% on a same station basis and down 12% on a same station basis, excluding political. For Q4, we're currently pacing down 11.6% all in, down 21.2% same station and down 10.1% same station ex-political, with National dow 26%, local down 2.1%. So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3. Net revenue for reach media was $31 million dollars for the first half of the year, that included the $10.1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic Voyage cruise event and that compared to $21.1 million last year. Adjusted EBITDA was $8.1 million, including $1.75 million from the cruise, most down from $8.6 million last year.

Net revenue for the radio segment increased eight 3% year over year, but decreased one 3% on a same station basis, excluding political net revenues increased by 1% on a same station basis.

Peter D. Thompson: According to Miller Kaplan and on a same station basis our local AD sales were down 4.6% against the market a was down 2.7% National AD sales were down 2.4% against the market that was down 7.7%. The radio spot markets were down 1.6% in Q1 and down 6.8% in Q2. Spot markets were down 7.5% in Q3 and we finished Q3 down 0.6% overall, down 14.4% on a same station basis and down 12% on a same station basis, excluding political. For Q4, we're currently pacing down 11.6% all in, down 21.2% same station and down 10.1% same station ex-political, with National dow 26%, local down 2.1%. So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3. Net revenue for reach media was $31 million dollars for the first half of the year, that included the $10.1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic Voyage cruise event and that compared to $21.1 million last year. Adjusted EBITDA was $8.1 million, including $1.75 million from the cruise, most down from $8.6 million last year.

According to Miller Kaplan and on a same station basis local AD sales were down four 6% against the market that was down two 7% National AD sales were down two 4% against the market that was down seven 7%.

The radio spot markets were down one 6% in Q1 and down six 8% in Q2.

Peter D. Thompson: Spot markets were down 7.5% in Q3 and we finished Q3 down 0.6% overall, down 14.4% on a same station basis and down 12% on a same station basis, excluding political. For Q4, we're currently pacing down 11.6% all in, down 21.2% same station and down 10.1% same station ex-political, with National dow 26%, local down 2.1%. So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3. Net revenue for reach media was $31 million dollars for the first half of the year, that included the $10.1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic Voyage cruise event and that compared to $21.1 million last year. Adjusted EBITDA was $8.1 million, including $1.75 million from the cruise, most down from $8.6 million last year.

What markets were down seven 5% in Q3.

And we finished Q3 down 0.6% overall down 14.4% on a same station basis and down 12% on a same station basis, excluding political.

For Q4, we're currently pacing down 11, 6% all in.

21, 2% same station and down 10, 1% same station ex political with.

Peter D. Thompson: So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3. Net revenue for reach media was $31 million dollars for the first half of the year, that included the $10.1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic Voyage cruise event and that compared to $21.1 million last year. Adjusted EBITDA was $8.1 million, including $1.75 million from the cruise, most down from $8.6 million last year.

National down, 26% local down two 1%.

So we've definitely experienced some softness in market revenues for the second half of the year, Although Q4 local has improved sequentially over Q3.

Net revenue for reach media was $31 million for the first half of the year that included the $10 1 million for the Tom Joyner Fantastic voyage cruise event.

Compared to $21 1 million last year, adjusted EBITDA was $8 1 million, including $1 $75 million from the cruise most down from $8 $6 million last year.

Peter D. Thompson: Adjusted EBITDA was $8.1 million, including $1.75 million from the cruise, most down from $8.6 million last year.

Peter D. Thompson: Advertising revenue was down for the first half of the year and affiliate station compensation expense was up. Net revenue for the cable TV segment was $102 $1 million for the first half of the year a decrease of six 8% cable TV advertising revenue was down five 8%. All three and a half million dollars with an unfavorable rate volume impact $2 million. An additional $1 3 million. Hugh. Fishing C P. P 25, 54 prime delivery was down 31% in Q1 and down 21% in Q2. Cable TV affiliate revenue was down by seven 8% or $3 9 million. With favorable rate increases of $2 $2 million. More than offset by $5 $3 million of match. An $800000 of increased launch support. Net revenue for our digital segment increased by one 8% for the first half of the year, which includes a $1 million. Revenue from the Indianapolis. <unk>. Direct sales from a National New York Office was down as advertisers pulled back somewhat on marketing budgets due to recession concerns. Fewer advertisers committed to black history month in the June to June 10th efforts compared to a year ago streaming revenue from a radio station inventory was up. Increased traffic acquisition costs sales and marketing expenses offset those revenue increases and adjusted EBITDA was $9 $9 million for the first half compared to $12 $3 million for the same period last year. For the six months period ended June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67 $8 million down $21 $7 million were down 24, 3% from last year. $4 $1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM. The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1 $8 million. But radio and reach segments were down by $1 1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2 $4 million in cable TV was down $13 $8 million. Due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber. And some increased content amortization costs. Cable subscribers for TV, one as measured by Nielsen. Finished Q2, 'twenty three at $45 1 million compared to $46 5 million at the end of 2022, Cleo TV had $42 5 million Nielsen subs. Operating expenses, excluding depreciation and amortization stock based compensation and impairment of long lived assets increased to approximately $172 $8 million for the six months period ended June 30th.

Peter D. Thompson: Advertising revenue was down for the first half of the year and affiliate station compensation expense was up. Net revenue for the cable TV segment was $102.1 million for the first half of the year, a decrease of 6.8%, cable TV advertising revenue was down 5.8%. or $3.5 million dollars with an unfavorable rate volume impact of $2 million dollars and an additional $1.3 million dollars of ADU deficiency. P25-54 Prime delivery was down 31% in Q1 and down 21% in Q2. Cable TV affiliate revenue was down by 7.8% or $3.9 million dollars with favorable rate increases of $2.2 million dollars, more than offset by $5.3 million dollars of net churn and $800 thousand dollars of increased launch support. Net revenue for our digital segment increased by 1.8% for the first half of the year, which includes $1 million dollars in revenue from the Indianapolis acquisition. Direct sales from our National New York Office were down, as advertisers pulled back somewhat on marketing budgets due to recession concerns and fewer advertisers committed to Black History Month and the Juneteenth efforts compared to a year ago. Streaming revenue from our radio station inventory was up, however increased traffic acquisition costs sales and marketing expenses offset those revenue increases, and adjusted EBITDA was $9.9 million dollars for the first half compared to $12.3 million dollars for the same period last year. For the six months period end to June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67.8 million dollars down $21.7 million dollars were down 24.3% from last year, $4.1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM. The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

Advertising revenue was down for the first half of the year and affiliate station compensation expense was up.

Net revenue for the cable TV segment was $102 $1 million for the first half of the year a decrease of six 8% cable TV advertising revenue was down five 8%.

All three and a half million dollars with an unfavorable rate volume impact $2 million.

An additional $1 3 million.

Hugh.

Fishing C P.

Peter D. Thompson: P25-54 Prime delivery was down 31% in Q1 and down 21% in Q2. Cable TV affiliate revenue was down by 7.8% or $3.9 million dollars with favorable rate increases of $2.2 million dollars, more than offset by $5.3 million dollars of net churn and $800 thousand dollars of increased launch support. Net revenue for our digital segment increased by 1.8% for the first half of the year, which includes $1 million dollars in revenue from the Indianapolis acquisition. Direct sales from our National New York Office were down, as advertisers pulled back somewhat on marketing budgets due to recession concerns and fewer advertisers committed to Black History Month and the Juneteenth efforts compared to a year ago. Streaming revenue from our radio station inventory was up, however increased traffic acquisition costs sales and marketing expenses offset those revenue increases, and adjusted EBITDA was $9.9 million dollars for the first half compared to $12.3 million dollars for the same period last year. For the six months period end to June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67.8 million dollars down $21.7 million dollars were down 24.3% from last year, $4.1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM. The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

P 25, 54 prime delivery was down 31% in Q1 and down 21% in Q2.

Cable TV affiliate revenue was down by seven 8% or $3 9 million.

With favorable rate increases of $2 $2 million.

More than offset by $5 $3 million of match.

An $800000 of increased launch support.

Peter D. Thompson: Net revenue for our digital segment increased by 1.8% for the first half of the year, which includes $1 million dollars in revenue from the Indianapolis acquisition. Direct sales from our National New York Office were down, as advertisers pulled back somewhat on marketing budgets due to recession concerns and fewer advertisers committed to Black History Month and the Juneteenth efforts compared to a year ago. Streaming revenue from our radio station inventory was up, however increased traffic acquisition costs sales and marketing expenses offset those revenue increases, and adjusted EBITDA was $9.9 million dollars for the first half compared to $12.3 million dollars for the same period last year. For the six months period end to June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67.8 million dollars down $21.7 million dollars were down 24.3% from last year, $4.1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM. The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

Peter D. Thompson: Net revenue for our digital segment increased by 1.8% for the first half of the year, which includes $1 million dollars in revenue from the Indianapolis acquisition.

Net revenue for our digital segment increased by one 8% for the first half of the year, which includes a $1 million.

Revenue from the Indianapolis.

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Peter D. Thompson: Direct sales from our National New York Office were down, as advertisers pulled back somewhat on marketing budgets due to recession concerns and fewer advertisers committed to Black History Month and the Juneteenth efforts compared to a year ago. Streaming revenue from our radio station inventory was up, however increased traffic acquisition costs sales and marketing expenses offset those revenue increases, and adjusted EBITDA was $9.9 million dollars for the first half compared to $12.3 million dollars for the same period last year. For the six months period end to June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67.8 million dollars down $21.7 million dollars were down 24.3% from last year, $4.1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM. The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

Direct sales from a National New York Office was down as advertisers pulled back somewhat on marketing budgets due to recession concerns.

Fewer advertisers committed to black history month in the June to June 10th efforts compared to a year ago streaming revenue from a radio station inventory was up.

Peter D. Thompson: Streaming revenue from our radio station inventory was up, however increased traffic acquisition costs sales and marketing expenses offset those revenue increases, and adjusted EBITDA was $9.9 million dollars for the first half compared to $12.3 million dollars for the same period last year. For the six months period end to June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67.8 million dollars down $21.7 million dollars were down 24.3% from last year, $4.1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM. The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

Increased traffic acquisition costs sales and marketing expenses offset those revenue increases and adjusted EBITDA was $9 $9 million for the first half compared to $12 $3 million for the same period last year.

For the six months period ended June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67 $8 million down $21 $7 million were down 24, 3% from last year.

Peter D. Thompson: For the six months period end to June 2023, consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $67.8 million dollars down $21.7 million dollars were down 24.3% from last year, $4.1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM. The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

$4 $1 million of the decrease is from the sale of MGM.

The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1 $8 million.

Peter D. Thompson: The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined. Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

Peter D. Thompson: The Indianapolis acquisition added about $1.8 million dollars but radio and reach segments were down by $1.1 million combined.

But radio and reach segments were down by $1 1 million combined.

Digital segment was down by $2 $4 million in cable TV was down $13 $8 million.

Peter D. Thompson: Digital segment was down by $2.4 million dollars and cable TV was down $13.8 million dollars due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber churn and some increased content amortization costs.

Due to the advertising revenue decreased subscriber.

And some increased content amortization costs.

Cable subscribers for TV, one as measured by Nielsen.

Peter D. Thompson: Cable subscribers for TV, one as measured by Nielsen. Finished Q2, 'twenty three at $45 1 million compared to $46 5 million at the end of 2022, Cleo TV had $42 5 million Nielsen subs. Operating expenses, excluding depreciation and amortization stock based compensation and impairment of long lived assets increased to approximately $172 $8 million for the six months period ended June 30th. Up 16, 2% from approximately $148 $7 million compared. Travel period in 2022. There was an increase of approximately $8 $3 million related to reaches cruise event. $1 $2 million in other radio event expenses. $4 $6 million in cable TV content amortization. $5 million in employee compensation expenses $3 $8 million in contract labor talent costs, and consulting fees $2 $7 million in core professional fees $2 $2 million in variable expenses. A $1 million in travel and entertainment marketing and office expenses piece. These increases. Were partially offset by a decrease of approximately $3 $3 million and the employment agreement Award expense and also a decrease of $1 $6 million corporate business development costs. Approximately $5 9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition. Also included in the totals that I just mentioned above. Radio operating expenses were up by $6 $4 million with the Indianapolis cluster added about $5 $4 million of that increase. Atlanta is birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense reach. Reach operating expenses were up $10 $4 million with $8 3 million of that from the cruise. Two of additional affiliate station compensation and $750000 in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition. The audience extension, which were up. By $1 $3 million and also production of marketing, which was up by one $6 million. Cable TV expense was up by $6 $4 million with the content amortization. Largest partner up by $4 $6 million. Operating expenses in the corporate and elimination segment were down by $2 2 million, including a favorable variance of $3 $3 million for the non cash TV, One employment award charge.

Peter D. Thompson: Cable subscribers for TV One as measured by Nielsen finished Q2, '23 at $45.1 million compared to $46.5 million at the end of 2022, Cleo TV had $42.5 million Nielsen subs. Operating expenses, excluding depreciation and amortization, stock based compensation and impairment of long-lived assets increased to approximately $172.8 million dollars for the six months period ended June 30th. Up 16.2% from approximately $148.7 million dollars incurred from the comparable period in 2022. There was an increase of approximately $8.3 million dollars related to reach's cruise event, $1.2 million dollars in other radio event expenses, $4.6 million dollars in cable TV content amortization. $5 million in employee compensation expenses, $3.8 million dollars in contract labor, talent costs, and consulting fees $2.7 million in corporate professional fees $2.2 million in variable expenses and $1 million dollars in travel, entertainment, marketing and office expenses. These increases were partially offset by a decrease of approximately $3.3 million dollars in the Employment Agreement Award expense and also a decrease of $1.6 million dollars for corporate business development costs. Approximately $5.9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition and that's included in the totals that I just mentioned above. Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase. Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Peter D. Thompson: Cable subscribers for TV One as measured by Nielsen finished Q2, '23 at $45.1 million compared to $46.5 million at the end of 2022, Cleo TV had $42.5 million Nielsen subs.

Finished Q2, 'twenty three at $45 1 million compared to $46 5 million at the end of 2022, Cleo TV had $42 5 million Nielsen subs.

Peter D. Thompson: Operating expenses, excluding depreciation and amortization, stock based compensation and impairment of long-lived assets increased to approximately $172.8 million dollars for the six months period ended June 30th. Up 16.2% from approximately $148.7 million dollars incurred from the comparable period in 2022. There was an increase of approximately $8.3 million dollars related to reach's cruise event, $1.2 million dollars in other radio event expenses, $4.6 million dollars in cable TV content amortization. $5 million in employee compensation expenses, $3.8 million dollars in contract labor, talent costs, and consulting fees $2.7 million in corporate professional fees $2.2 million in variable expenses and $1 million dollars in travel, entertainment, marketing and office expenses. These increases were partially offset by a decrease of approximately $3.3 million dollars in the Employment Agreement Award expense and also a decrease of $1.6 million dollars for corporate business development costs. Approximately $5.9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition and that's included in the totals that I just mentioned above. Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase. Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Operating expenses, excluding depreciation and amortization stock based compensation and impairment of long lived assets increased to approximately $172 $8 million for the six months period ended June 30th.

Up 16, 2% from approximately $148 $7 million compared.

Peter D. Thompson: There was an increase of approximately $8.3 million dollars related to reach's cruise event, $1.2 million dollars in other radio event expenses, $4.6 million dollars in cable TV content amortization. $5 million in employee compensation expenses, $3.8 million dollars in contract labor, talent costs, and consulting fees $2.7 million in corporate professional fees $2.2 million in variable expenses and $1 million dollars in travel, entertainment, marketing and office expenses. These increases were partially offset by a decrease of approximately $3.3 million dollars in the Employment Agreement Award expense and also a decrease of $1.6 million dollars for corporate business development costs. Approximately $5.9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition and that's included in the totals that I just mentioned above. Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase. Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Travel period in 2022.

There was an increase of approximately $8 $3 million related to reaches cruise event.

$1 $2 million in other radio event expenses.

$4 $6 million in cable TV content amortization.

Peter D. Thompson: $5 million in employee compensation expenses, $3.8 million dollars in contract labor, talent costs, and consulting fees $2.7 million in corporate professional fees $2.2 million in variable expenses and $1 million dollars in travel, entertainment, marketing and office expenses. These increases were partially offset by a decrease of approximately $3.3 million dollars in the Employment Agreement Award expense and also a decrease of $1.6 million dollars for corporate business development costs. Approximately $5.9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition and that's included in the totals that I just mentioned above. Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase. Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

$5 million in employee compensation expenses $3 $8 million in contract labor talent costs, and consulting fees $2 $7 million in core professional fees $2 $2 million in variable expenses.

Peter D. Thompson: These increases were partially offset by a decrease of approximately $3.3 million dollars in the Employment Agreement Award expense and also a decrease of $1.6 million dollars for corporate business development costs. Approximately $5.9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition and that's included in the totals that I just mentioned above. Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase. Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

A $1 million in travel and entertainment marketing and office expenses piece.

These increases.

Were partially offset by a decrease of approximately $3 $3 million and the employment agreement Award expense and also a decrease of $1 $6 million corporate business development costs.

Peter D. Thompson: Approximately $5.9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition and that's included in the totals that I just mentioned above. Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase. Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Peter D. Thompson: Approximately $5.9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition and that's included in the totals that I just mentioned above.

Approximately $5 9 million of those increased expenses related to the Indianapolis Radio acquisition.

Peter D. Thompson: Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase. Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Peter D. Thompson: Radio operating expenses were up by $6.4 million dollars with the Indianapolis cluster adding about $5.4 million dollars of that increase.

Also included in the totals that I just mentioned above.

Radio operating expenses were up by $6 $4 million with the Indianapolis cluster added about $5 $4 million of that increase.

Peter D. Thompson: Atlanta's Birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense. Reach operating expenses were up $10.4 million dollars with $8.3 million dollars of that from the cruise. $1.2 million dollars of additional affiliate station compensation and $750 thousand dollars in additional talent compensation. Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Atlanta is birthday Bash event added about $1 million of expense reach.

Reach operating expenses were up $10 $4 million with $8 3 million of that from the cruise.

Two of additional affiliate station compensation and $750000 in additional talent compensation.

Peter D. Thompson: Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition and audience extension, which were up by $1.3 million dollars and also production of marketing, which was up by $1.6 million dollars. Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Operating expenses in the digital segment were up by $3 million driven predominantly by variable expenses related to traffic acquisition.

The audience extension, which were up.

By $1 $3 million and also production of marketing, which was up by one $6 million.

Peter D. Thompson: Cable TV expense was up by $6.4 million dollars with the content amortization, the largest partner up by $4.6 million dollars.

Cable TV expense was up by $6 $4 million with the content amortization.

Largest partner up by $4 $6 million.

Peter D. Thompson: Operating expenses in the corporate and elimination segment were down by $2.2 million dollars, including a favorable variance of $3.3 million dollars for the non-cash TV One employment award charge and $1.6 million dollars for reduced corporate business development, which was offset by increases in professional fees and some employee compensation. Impairment of Goodwill intangible and long lived assets was $38.9 million dollars for the first half of the year, $16.8 million dollars of that was associated with the sale of KOI FM, the radio broadcast in license in Houston, and non-cash impairment charges of $22.1 million dollars were recorded for radio broadcasting licenses, primarily in the Philadelphia market. On April 21st 2023, Radio One entertainment holdings closed on the sale of 100% of the MGM National Harbor Entrust, company received approximately $136.8 million dollars at the time of the settlement of the put interest representing the put price. Other income net was $96.5 million dollars for the first half primarily as a result of the gain on that sale. The company repurchased $25 million dollars of its 2028 notes at an average price of approximately 89.1% of par in the first quarter, resulting in a net gain on retirement of debt of approximately $2.4 million dollars. Total gross debt balance is now $725 million dollars, down from $825 million dollars at the start of 2022. Interest expense decreased to approximately $28 million dollars for the fourth quarter, down 11.8% from last year due to the debt pay downs. The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars. Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred. Thank You Peter, Operator could you open up for questions?

Operating expenses in the corporate and elimination segment were down by $2 2 million, including a favorable variance of $3 $3 million for the non cash TV, One employment award charge.

$1 $6 million for reduced corporate business development.

Was offset by increases in professional fees and some employee compensation.

Peter D. Thompson: Impairment of Goodwill intangible and long lived assets was $38.9 million dollars for the first half of the year, $16.8 million dollars of that was associated with the sale of KOI FM, the radio broadcast in license in Houston, and non-cash impairment charges of $22.1 million dollars were recorded for radio broadcasting licenses, primarily in the Philadelphia market. On April 21st 2023, Radio One entertainment holdings closed on the sale of 100% of the MGM National Harbor Entrust, company received approximately $136.8 million dollars at the time of the settlement of the put interest representing the put price. Other income net was $96.5 million dollars for the first half primarily as a result of the gain on that sale. The company repurchased $25 million dollars of its 2028 notes at an average price of approximately 89.1% of par in the first quarter, resulting in a net gain on retirement of debt of approximately $2.4 million dollars. Total gross debt balance is now $725 million dollars, down from $825 million dollars at the start of 2022. Interest expense decreased to approximately $28 million dollars for the fourth quarter, down 11.8% from last year due to the debt pay downs. The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars. Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

Hammond.

Goodwill intangible and long lived assets was $38 9 million for the first half of the year $16 $8 million of that was associated with the sale of K R. F. M. The radio broadcast and license in Houston, and noncash impairment charges of $22 $1 million were recorded for radio.

Casting licenses, primarily in the Philadelphia market.

Peter D. Thompson: On April 21st 2023, Radio One entertainment holdings closed on the sale of 100% of the MGM National Harbor Entrust, company received approximately $136.8 million dollars at the time of the settlement of the put interest representing the put price. Other income net was $96.5 million dollars for the first half primarily as a result of the gain on that sale. The company repurchased $25 million dollars of its 2028 notes at an average price of approximately 89.1% of par in the first quarter, resulting in a net gain on retirement of debt of approximately $2.4 million dollars. Total gross debt balance is now $725 million dollars, down from $825 million dollars at the start of 2022. Interest expense decreased to approximately $28 million dollars for the fourth quarter, down 11.8% from last year due to the debt pay downs. The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars. Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

On April 21st 2023 Radio one entertainment holdings closed on the sale of 100% of the MGM National Harbor Entrust company received approximately $136 $8 million at the time of the settlement of the put interest.

Presenting put price.

Peter D. Thompson: Other income net was $96.5 million dollars for the first half primarily as a result of the gain on that sale. The company repurchased $25 million dollars of its 2028 notes at an average price of approximately 89.1% of par in the first quarter, resulting in a net gain on retirement of debt of approximately $2.4 million dollars. Total gross debt balance is now $725 million dollars, down from $825 million dollars at the start of 2022. Interest expense decreased to approximately $28 million dollars for the fourth quarter, down 11.8% from last year due to the debt pay downs. The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars. Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

Peter D. Thompson: Other income net was $96.5 million dollars for the first half primarily as a result of the gain on that sale.

Other income net was $96 5 million for the first half primarily as a result of the gain on that sale.

The company repurchased $25 million of its 2028 notes at an average price of approximately 89, 1% of par in the first quarter, resulting in a net gain on retirement of debt of approximately $2 $4 million total gross debt balance is now $725 million down from eight.

Peter D. Thompson: The company repurchased $25 million dollars of its 2028 notes at an average price of approximately 89.1% of par in the first quarter, resulting in a net gain on retirement of debt of approximately $2.4 million dollars. Total gross debt balance is now $725 million dollars, down from $825 million dollars at the start of 2022. Interest expense decreased to approximately $28 million dollars for the fourth quarter, down 11.8% from last year due to the debt pay downs. The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars. Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

Peter D. Thompson: Total gross debt balance is now $725 million dollars, down from $825 million dollars at the start of 2022. Interest expense decreased to approximately $28 million dollars for the fourth quarter, down 11.8% from last year due to the debt pay downs. The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars. Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

$125 million at the start of 2022.

Interest expense decreased to approximately $28 million for the fourth quarter down 11, 8% from last year due to the debt paydowns.

The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million for the first half when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1 $3 million.

Peter D. Thompson: The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars. Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

Peter D. Thompson: The provision for income taxes was approximately $22 million dollars for the first half, when the company paid cash income taxes in the amount of $1.3 million dollars.

Net income was approximately $67 4 million or $1 42 per share compared to $32 $8 million or <unk> 64 per share for the first half.

Peter D. Thompson: Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year. Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

Peter D. Thompson: Net income was approximately $67.4 million dollars or $1.42 dollars per share compared to $32.8 million dollars or 64 cents per share for the first half of the prior year.

Prior year.

Capital expenditure was approximately $4 $1 million in the first half.

We repurchased 274901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1 $4 million.

Peter D. Thompson: Capital expenditure was approximately $4.1 million dollars in the first half. The company repurchased 274,901 shares of class B common stock in the amount of $1.4 million dollars. As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

As of June 32000.

23, gross debt was $725 million ending unrestricted cash was $237 million, resulting in net debt of approximately $494 $3 million.

Peter D. Thompson: As of June 30th 2023, gross debt was $725 million dollars and in unrestricted cash was $237 million dollars, resulting in net debt of approximately $494.3 million dollars compared to $143.5 million dollars of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA. Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

Compared to $143 $5 million of LTM reported adjusted EBITDA pro forma for the MGM sale.

Peter D. Thompson: Pro forma for the MGM sale, LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139.1 million dollars, giving a total net leverage ratio of 3.55 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alfred.

LTM adjusted EBITDA was $139 $1 million.

Giving a total net leverage ratio of 355 times at the end of the period and with that I'll hand back to Alpha.

Operator.

Alfred C. Liggins: Thank You Peter, Operator could you open up for questions?

Up for questions.

Operator: Certainly, thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you do wish to ask a question, please press one event zero on your telephone keypad, you can withdraw your question at any time by repeating the one zero command, and if you're using a speakerphone please pick up the handset before pressing those numbers. Again, if you have a question please press one zero at this time. In one moment here. Well go to Bradd Kern with [inaudible]. Please go ahead.

Operator: Again, if you have a question please press one zero at this time. In one moment here. Well go to Bradd Kern with [inaudible]. Please go ahead.

Operator: Again, if you have a question please press one zero at this time. In one moment here.

And one moment here.

Yeah.

Well go to Brad Kern with Port Baker. Please go ahead.

Operator: Well go to Bradd Kern with [inaudible]. Please go ahead.

Bradd Kern: Hi, Thanks for the call and for taking my question. First one I had was. How would you think about the IRR on open market debt purchases, versus other uses of cash proceeds? do you think that that sort of a 12%-ish IRR is a high enough return to justify cash deployment, there? And you know when you think about your cost of capital. How do you think about the way that you would deploy that cash when you think about returns?

First one I had was.

Got it.

How would you think about the IRR on <unk>.

Open market debt purchases versus other uses of cash proceeds do you think that that sort of a 12% ish IRR is a high enough return to justify cash deployment, there and you know when you think about your cost of capital.

Bradd Kern: And you know when you think about your cost of capital. How do you think about the way that you would deploy that cash when you think about returns?

How do you think about the way that you would deploy that.

That cash when you think about returns.

Yes. The other. Historically, we have looked at just sort of what that yield to worst is and thats, where youre seeing that 12%, but in today's environment. The fact of the matter is we're earning about 5% on our cash right now so it's the delta between that 5% in that 12. Yes. It's not quite the double digit return. But a couple of things. First of all finding places to put money to work at a 20% IRR, it's hard right like we've we've. We've done two radio acquisitions in the last. In the last year, and we will we liked the pencil out our cash investments. And the <unk> and we feel good about that particularly the Houston one in particular. It was really strong. However, and we think that our our casino investment would have been something. In the twenties. Be it that would've been Pedro along there. Return of capital process, we wouldn't have been seeing cash coming through the door after that. Like you do for months from a radio acquisition. Yes. So that's kind of how we look at but irrespective. Of that we want to get our debt down right. Now I think that we're not you know. We're probably looking at. <unk>. We've historically done our open market purchases and like kind of blocks of $25 million authorization, right now and kind of weighted.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yes. Historically, we have looked at just sort of what that yield to worst is, and thats where you're seeing that 12%, but in today's environment, the fact of the matter is we're earning about 5% on our cash right now, so it's the delta between that 5% and that 12 so it's not quite the double digit return. But a couple of things. First of all, finding places to put money to work at a 20% IRR, it's hard right like we've done two radio acquisitions in the last year, and we liked the pencil out our cash investments in the 20's and we feel good about that, particularly the Houston one in particular was really strong. However, and we think that our casino investment would have been something in the 20's, albeit that would've been a long return of capital process, we wouldn't have been seeing cash coming through the door after that, like you do for months from a radio acquisition. So that's kind of how we look at, but irrespective of that, we want to get our debt down right you know. I think that we're not, you know, we're probably looking at. We've historically done our open market purchases and like kind of blocks of $25 million authorization, right now and kind of weighted. And two it yes, I suspect that we'll probably do. <unk>. Take a similar approach. But we're going to pick up. A quantum that we'd like to to pay down and go after it and continue to look for other. Other opportunities the one or excuse me to earn 20% plus you know on our on our money, but I've talked to a lot of people. Out there that are investors professional investors find in finding those opportunities. In today's environment, it's tough so, but we keep looking.

The other.

Historically, we have looked at just sort of what that yield to worst is and thats, where youre seeing that 12%, but in today's environment. The fact of the matter is we're earning about 5% on our cash right now so it's the delta between that 5% in that 12.

Yes.

It's not quite the double digit return.

But a couple of things.

Alfred C. Liggins: But a couple of things. First of all, finding places to put money to work at a 20% IRR, it's hard right like we've done two radio acquisitions in the last year, and we liked the pencil out our cash investments in the 20's and we feel good about that, particularly the Houston one in particular was really strong. However, and we think that our casino investment would have been something in the 20's, albeit that would've been a long return of capital process, we wouldn't have been seeing cash coming through the door after that, like you do for months from a radio acquisition. So that's kind of how we look at, but irrespective of that, we want to get our debt down right you know. I think that we're not, you know, we're probably looking at.

First of all finding places to put money to work at a 20% IRR, it's hard right like we've we've.

We've done two radio acquisitions in the last.

In the last year, and we will we liked the pencil out our cash investments.

And the <unk> and we feel good about that particularly the Houston one in particular.

Alfred C. Liggins: However, and we think that our casino investment would have been something in the 20's, albeit that would've been a long return of capital process, we wouldn't have been seeing cash coming through the door after that, like you do for months from a radio acquisition. So that's kind of how we look at, but irrespective of that, we want to get our debt down right you know. I think that we're not, you know, we're probably looking at.

It was really strong.

However, and we think that our our casino investment would have been something.

In the twenties.

Be it that would've been Pedro along there.

Return of capital process, we wouldn't have been seeing cash coming through the door after that.

Alfred C. Liggins: So that's kind of how we look at, but irrespective of that, we want to get our debt down right you know. I think that we're not, you know, we're probably looking at.

Like you do for months from a radio acquisition.

Yes.

So that's kind of how we look at but irrespective.

Of that we want to get our debt down right.

Now I think that we're not you know.

Alfred C. Liggins: We've historically done our open market purchases in like kind of blocks of $25 million authorizations right, you know and kind of weighted into it, I suspect that we'll probably do take a similar approach. But we're going to pick a quantum that we'd like to pay down and go after it, and continue to look for other opportunities to earn, excuse me to earn 20% plus on our money. But I've talked to a lot of people out there, our investors, professional investors find those opportunities in today's environment, it's tough so, but we keep looking.

We're probably looking at.

We've historically done our open market purchases and like kind of blocks of $25 million authorization, right now and kind of weighted. And two it yes, I suspect that we'll probably do. <unk>. Take a similar approach. But we're going to pick up. A quantum that we'd like to to pay down and go after it and continue to look for other. Other opportunities the one or excuse me to earn 20% plus you know on our on our money, but I've talked to a lot of people. Out there that are investors professional investors find in finding those opportunities. In today's environment, it's tough so, but we keep looking.

<unk>.

We've historically done our open market purchases and like kind of blocks of $25 million authorization, right now and kind of weighted.

And two it yes, I suspect that we'll probably do.

<unk>.

Take a similar approach.

Alfred C. Liggins: But we're going to pick a quantum that we'd like to pay down and go after it, and continue to look for other opportunities to earn, excuse me to earn 20% plus on our money. But I've talked to a lot of people out there, our investors, professional investors find those opportunities in today's environment, it's tough so, but we keep looking.

Alfred C. Liggins: But we're going to pick a quantum that we'd like to pay down and go after it, and continue to look for other opportunities to earn, excuse me to earn 20% plus on our money.

But we're going to pick up.

A quantum that we'd like to to pay down and go after it and continue to look for other.

Other opportunities the one or excuse me to earn 20% plus you know on our on our money, but I've talked to a lot of people.

Alfred C. Liggins: But I've talked to a lot of people out there, our investors, professional investors find those opportunities in today's environment, it's tough so, but we keep looking.

Out there that are investors professional investors find in finding those opportunities.

In today's environment, it's tough so, but we keep looking.

Yeah that makes sense. Shakeout perspective. I mean, how committed. As you look around for those types of 20%. Or whatever that might end up. Yeah. How committed is. How committed are you to the media business to radio and TV versus other diversifying ventures, I mean, clearly you've shown a lot. Look anything like what are you considering yeah. I mean look we were in the radio business only right and then we got into the syndicated business. When we bought reach media then we created TV one gallon got into the cable TV business and we created urban one excuse me. Interactive one and we got into that digital business and we're publisher for the most current right. We're not we're not like the other radio companies where the. The bulk of our business is podcast inger. Our streaming and then we've gotten to the gaming business and so we generally like to look for. For businesses that are tangential to. The assets that we have meaning that yes. The assets that we have had the ability to make us be more successful or can help us enter those businesses are actually be successful in that business those businesses than we might. Their wives B and. And it's worked out right now. We got into the gaming business with MGM, because we were a media company based in Washington D C and they were building. Our resort casino here, so thats kind of the stuff that. We look at so we're open to looking at other businesses. But we like to have a competitive. Vantage and some. And some and some skill set.

Bradd Kern: Yeah that makes sense, I appreciate the perspective. I mean and how committed, as you look around for those types of 20% plus returns or whatever it might [inaudible] How committed are you to the media business, to radio and TV, versus other diversifying ventures, I mean, clearly you've shown [inaudible] what are you considering?

Bradd Kern: Yeah that makes sense, I appreciate the perspective. I mean and how committed, as you look around for those types of 20% plus returns or whatever it might [inaudible]

Shakeout perspective.

I mean, how committed.

As you look around for those types of 20%.

Or whatever that might end up.

Yeah.

Bradd Kern: How committed are you to the media business, to radio and TV, versus other diversifying ventures, I mean, clearly you've shown [inaudible] what are you considering?

How committed is.

How committed are you to the media business to radio and TV versus other diversifying ventures, I mean, clearly you've shown a lot.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah. I mean look we were in the radio business only right, and then we got into the syndicated business when we bought Reach Media, then we created TV One, then we got into the cable TV business and we created urban one, excuse me, Interactive One and we got into that digital business. And we're publisher for the most current right, we're not we're not like the other radio companies where the the bulk of our business is podcasting or streaming. And then we've gotten to the gaming business and so we generally like to look for businesses that are tangential to the assets that we have, meaning that the assets that we have had the ability to make us be more successful, or can help us enter those businesses or actually be successful in those businesses than we might otherwise be, and it's worked out right. We got into the gaming business with MGM, because we were a media company based in Washington D.C. and they were building a resort casino here. So thats kind of the stuff that we look at, so we're open to looking at other businesses, but we like to have a competitive advantage in some skill set. Yes, I generally do not want to. I wouldn't want to do anything where we're just out of our depth of knowledge right now. To me that's a high. High degree of execution risk Youre gambling et cetera, you know and so. So that you know. That's kind of how we look at it and and. But there could be some consumer based businesses I mean, if there was a you know. If you had a one line. Digital. Urban apparel retailer opportunity right, that's something it's and I'm just talking off the top of my head now yeah. That's that's something. Where you are marketing platform could be helpful. Even though we're not in that business I'm, not saying, we're not looking at any business like that but that's an example of something that's not in our core business, where we would probably take a long hard look at but I can also tell you, though as it relates to our other core businesses. We have to figure out. What we're doing strategically and an ever changing environment right. How do we how do we get some advantages some scale advantages and programming content advantages in our TV business. The radio acquisitions that we've made we're very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think. You got to continue to look at how to you. Uh huh. Having fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change because we're going to be in those businesses right now. And so you've got a. We got to figure out how to flourish, but now what we try to be really careful. About what we do I would say that our number one priority. Yes. It could. B in a defensive posture.

Look anything like what are you considering yeah. I mean look we were in the radio business only right and then we got into the syndicated business. When we bought reach media then we created TV one gallon got into the cable TV business and we created urban one excuse me.

Look anything like what are you considering

yeah. I mean look we were in the radio business only right and then we got into the syndicated business. When we bought reach media then we created TV one gallon got into the cable TV business and we created urban one excuse me.

Interactive one and we got into that digital business and we're publisher for the most current right. We're not we're not like the other radio companies where the.

Alfred C. Liggins: And we're publisher for the most current right, we're not we're not like the other radio companies where the the bulk of our business is podcasting or streaming. And then we've gotten to the gaming business and so we generally like to look for businesses that are tangential to the assets that we have, meaning that the assets that we have had the ability to make us be more successful, or can help us enter those businesses or actually be successful in those businesses than we might otherwise be, and it's worked out right. We got into the gaming business with MGM, because we were a media company based in Washington D.C. and they were building a resort casino here. So thats kind of the stuff that we look at, so we're open to looking at other businesses, but we like to have a competitive advantage in some skill set.

Alfred C. Liggins: And we're publisher for the most current right, we're not we're not like the other radio companies where the the bulk of our business is podcasting or streaming.

The bulk of our business is podcast inger.

Our streaming and then we've gotten to the gaming business and so we generally like to look for.

Alfred C. Liggins: And then we've gotten to the gaming business and so we generally like to look for businesses that are tangential to the assets that we have, meaning that the assets that we have had the ability to make us be more successful, or can help us enter those businesses or actually be successful in those businesses than we might otherwise be, and it's worked out right. We got into the gaming business with MGM, because we were a media company based in Washington D.C. and they were building a resort casino here. So thats kind of the stuff that we look at, so we're open to looking at other businesses, but we like to have a competitive advantage in some skill set.

For businesses that are tangential to.

The assets that we have meaning that yes.

The assets that we have had the ability to make us be more successful or can help us enter those businesses are actually be successful in that business those businesses than we might.

Their wives B and.

And it's worked out right now.

Alfred C. Liggins: We got into the gaming business with MGM, because we were a media company based in Washington D.C. and they were building a resort casino here. So thats kind of the stuff that we look at, so we're open to looking at other businesses, but we like to have a competitive advantage in some skill set.

Alfred C. Liggins: We got into the gaming business with MGM, because we were a media company based in Washington D.C. and they were building a resort casino here.

We got into the gaming business with MGM, because we were a media company based in Washington D C and they were building.

Our resort casino here, so thats kind of the stuff that.

Alfred C. Liggins: So thats kind of the stuff that we look at, so we're open to looking at other businesses, but we like to have a competitive advantage in some skill set.

We look at so we're open to looking at other businesses.

But we like to have a competitive.

Vantage and some.

And some and some skill set.

Alfred C. Liggins: I generally do not want to, I wouldn't want to do anything where we're just out of our depth of knowledge right, to me that's a high high degree of execution risk, you're gambling etcetera you know, and so that's kind of how we look at it and. But there could be some consumer-based businesses, I mean, if there was a you know, if you had a online digital urban apparel retailer opportunity, right, that's something, and I'm just talking off the top of my head now. That's that's something where you are marketing platform could be helpful, even though we're not in that business, I'm not saying, we're not looking at any business like that but that's an example of something that's not in our core business where we would probably take a long hard look at. But I can also tell you though, as it relates to our other core businesses, we have to figure out what we're doing strategically in an ever changing environment right. How do we get some advantages, some scale advantages and programming content advantages in our TV business. The radio acquisitions that we've made were very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think you got to continue to look at how do you fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change, because we're going to be in those businesses right and so you've got, we got to figure out how to flourish. But now what we try to be really careful about what we do. I would say that our number one priority is, could in a defensive posture.

Yes, I generally do not want to. I wouldn't want to do anything where we're just out of our depth of knowledge right now. To me that's a high. High degree of execution risk Youre gambling et cetera, you know and so. So that you know. That's kind of how we look at it and and. But there could be some consumer based businesses I mean, if there was a you know. If you had a one line. Digital. Urban apparel retailer opportunity right, that's something it's and I'm just talking off the top of my head now yeah. That's that's something. Where you are marketing platform could be helpful. Even though we're not in that business I'm, not saying, we're not looking at any business like that but that's an example of something that's not in our core business, where we would probably take a long hard look at but I can also tell you, though as it relates to our other core businesses. We have to figure out. What we're doing strategically and an ever changing environment right. How do we how do we get some advantages some scale advantages and programming content advantages in our TV business. The radio acquisitions that we've made we're very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think. You got to continue to look at how to you. Uh huh. Having fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change because we're going to be in those businesses right now. And so you've got a. We got to figure out how to flourish, but now what we try to be really careful. About what we do I would say that our number one priority. Yes. It could. B in a defensive posture.

I wouldn't want to do anything where we're just out of our depth of knowledge right now.

To me that's a high.

High degree of execution risk Youre gambling et cetera, you know and so.

So that you know.

That's kind of how we look at it and and.

Alfred C. Liggins: But there could be some consumer-based businesses, I mean, if there was a you know, if you had a online digital urban apparel retailer opportunity, right, that's something, and I'm just talking off the top of my head now. That's that's something where you are marketing platform could be helpful, even though we're not in that business, I'm not saying, we're not looking at any business like that but that's an example of something that's not in our core business where we would probably take a long hard look at. But I can also tell you though, as it relates to our other core businesses, we have to figure out what we're doing strategically in an ever changing environment right. How do we get some advantages, some scale advantages and programming content advantages in our TV business. The radio acquisitions that we've made were very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think you got to continue to look at how do you fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change, because we're going to be in those businesses right and so you've got, we got to figure out how to flourish. But now what we try to be really careful about what we do.

But there could be some consumer based businesses I mean, if there was a you know.

If you had a one line.

Digital.

Urban apparel retailer opportunity right, that's something it's and I'm just talking off the top of my head now yeah. That's that's something.

Alfred C. Liggins: That's that's something where you are marketing platform could be helpful, even though we're not in that business, I'm not saying, we're not looking at any business like that but that's an example of something that's not in our core business where we would probably take a long hard look at. But I can also tell you though, as it relates to our other core businesses, we have to figure out what we're doing strategically in an ever changing environment right. How do we get some advantages, some scale advantages and programming content advantages in our TV business. The radio acquisitions that we've made were very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think you got to continue to look at how do you fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change, because we're going to be in those businesses right and so you've got, we got to figure out how to flourish. But now what we try to be really careful about what we do.

Where you are marketing platform could be helpful.

Even though we're not in that business I'm, not saying, we're not looking at any business like that but that's an example of something that's not in our core business, where we would probably take a long hard look at but I can also tell you, though as it relates to our other core businesses.

Alfred C. Liggins: But I can also tell you though, as it relates to our other core businesses, we have to figure out what we're doing strategically in an ever changing environment right. How do we get some advantages, some scale advantages and programming content advantages in our TV business. The radio acquisitions that we've made were very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think you got to continue to look at how do you fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change, because we're going to be in those businesses right and so you've got, we got to figure out how to flourish. But now what we try to be really careful about what we do.

We have to figure out.

What we're doing strategically and an ever changing environment right.

How do we how do we get some advantages some scale advantages and programming content advantages in our TV business. The radio acquisitions that we've made we're very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think.

Alfred C. Liggins: The radio acquisitions that we've made were very synergistic because we're consolidating in markets. So I think you got to continue to look at how do you fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change, because we're going to be in those businesses right and so you've got, we got to figure out how to flourish. But now what we try to be really careful about what we do.

You got to continue to look at how to you.

Uh huh.

Having fortify those businesses as as the ecosystem continues to change because we're going to be in those businesses right now.

And so you've got a.

We got to figure out how to flourish, but now what we try to be really careful.

Alfred C. Liggins: But now what we try to be really careful about what we do.

About what we do I would say that our number one priority.

Alfred C. Liggins: I would say that our number one priority is to be in a defensive posture from the standpoint of making sure we continue to delever and if we can get an opportunity where we think we can earn a 20% return pretty pretty confidently, then we'll take a hard run at it. The casino investment, even though it didn't pay back for a while, we're pretty confident that if we spent $560 million dollars building it, that it would return to $100 million dollars of EBITDA, and we would get that kind of return. Based on what we knew about the Central Virginia market so. Got it and so you just touched on this but you know you've mentioned in the past that you are looking for. Efficiently. All parties to achieve more efficiency on the linear TV business given the. Challenges, there with sort of melting subs so. How are you thinking about that. I know that. I don't have the answer yet we were one of the. Four five parties that were interested in. The <unk> media group when it was. In shopped in a process now we made an offer our offer was not. At the level that. Yes. Paramount wanted to trend back that. Yes. Evidently nobody made an offer at that level. This reason. They stopped the process, but there would have been a great deal of synergy there right. Yeah from a programming cost standpoint advertising sales standpoint. And so we looked at that. Hum. Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum and yes that election was November 7th and now failed. So we're now coming up for water I mean, excuse me coming up for air in the middle of doing our budgets for next year. Yeah. We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously. As we were doing during the referendum. And so now we're getting a getting a budget done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure to figure out what the opportunities are so that's yeah. So theres nothing on deck this moment.

Yes.

It could.

B in a defensive posture.

From the standpoint of making sure we continue to Delever and if we can get an opportunity where we think we can earn a 20% return pretty pretty pretty confidently now. Then we'll take a hard run at it. The casino investment, even though it didn't. It Didnt pay back for a while we're pretty confident that if we spent $560 million. Building. That it would return to $100 million of EBITDA, and we would get that kind of return. Based on what we knew about. The central Virginia market so. Got it and so you just touched on this but you know you've mentioned in the past that you are looking for. Efficiently. All parties to achieve more efficiency on the linear TV business given the. Challenges, there with sort of melting subs so. How are you thinking about that. I know that. I don't have the answer yet we were one of the. Four five parties that were interested in. The <unk> media group when it was. In shopped in a process now we made an offer our offer was not. At the level that. Yes. Paramount wanted to trend back that. Yes. Evidently nobody made an offer at that level. This reason. They stopped the process, but there would have been a great deal of synergy there right. Yeah from a programming cost standpoint advertising sales standpoint. And so we looked at that. Hum. Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum and yes that election was November 7th and now failed. So we're now coming up for water I mean, excuse me coming up for air in the middle of doing our budgets for next year. Yeah. We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously. As we were doing during the referendum. And so now we're getting a getting a budget done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure to figure out what the opportunities are so that's yeah. So theres nothing on deck this moment.

Then we'll take a hard run at it.

Alfred C. Liggins: The casino investment, even though it didn't pay back for a while, we're pretty confident that if we spent $560 million dollars building it, that it would return to $100 million dollars of EBITDA, and we would get that kind of return. Based on what we knew about the Central Virginia market so.

The casino investment, even though it didn't.

It Didnt pay back for a while we're pretty confident that if we spent $560 million.

Building.

That it would return to $100 million of EBITDA, and we would get that kind of return.

Based on what we knew about.

Alfred C. Liggins: Based on what we knew about the Central Virginia market so.

The central Virginia market so.

Bradd Kern: Got it, and you just touched on this but. You've mentioned in the past that you are looking for efficient opportunities to achieve more efficiency on the linear TV business given the challenges, there with sort of melting subs. So how are you thinking about that? I know that. I don't have the answer yet we were one of the. Four five parties that were interested in. The <unk> media group when it was. In shopped in a process now we made an offer our offer was not. At the level that. Yes. Paramount wanted to trend back that. Yes. Evidently nobody made an offer at that level. This reason. They stopped the process, but there would have been a great deal of synergy there right. Yeah from a programming cost standpoint advertising sales standpoint. And so we looked at that. Hum. Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum and yes that election was November 7th and now failed. So we're now coming up for water I mean, excuse me coming up for air in the middle of doing our budgets for next year. Yeah. We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously. As we were doing during the referendum. And so now we're getting a getting a budget done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure to figure out what the opportunities are so that's yeah. So theres nothing on deck this moment.

Got it and so you just touched on this but you know you've mentioned in the past that you are looking for.

Efficiently.

All parties to achieve more efficiency on the linear TV business given the.

Challenges, there with sort of melting subs so.

How are you thinking about that.

I know that.

Alfred C. Liggins: I don't have the answer yet, we were one of the 4 or 5 parties that were interested in the BET Media Group when it was being shopped in a process. We made an offer, our offer was not at the level that Paramount wanted to trend back that. Evidently nobody made an offer at that level, there's a reason they stopped the process, but there would have been a great deal of synergy there right, from a programming cost standpoint, advertising sales standpoint and so we looked at that. Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum, and yes that election was November 7th and now failed. So we're now coming up for water, I mean excuse me ,coming up for air, we're in the middle of doing our budgets for next year. We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously as we were doing during the referendum effort. And so now we're getting our budgets done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure out what the opportunities are so that's, so theres nothing on deck this moment.

Alfred C. Liggins: I don't have the answer yet, we were one of the 4 or 5 parties that were interested in the BET Media Group when it was being shopped in a process.

I don't have the answer yet we were one of the.

Four five parties that were interested in.

The <unk> media group when it was.

In shopped in a process now we made an offer our offer was not.

Alfred C. Liggins: We made an offer, our offer was not at the level that Paramount wanted to trend back that. Evidently nobody made an offer at that level, there's a reason they stopped the process, but there would have been a great deal of synergy there right, from a programming cost standpoint, advertising sales standpoint and so we looked at that. Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum, and yes that election was November 7th and now failed. So we're now coming up for water, I mean excuse me ,coming up for air, we're in the middle of doing our budgets for next year. We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously as we were doing during the referendum effort. And so now we're getting our budgets done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure out what the opportunities are so that's, so theres nothing on deck this moment.

At the level that.

Yes.

Paramount wanted to trend back that.

Yes.

Evidently nobody made an offer at that level. This reason.

They stopped the process, but there would have been a great deal of synergy there right.

Yeah from a programming cost standpoint advertising sales standpoint.

Alfred C. Liggins: Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum, and yes that election was November 7th and now failed. So we're now coming up for water, I mean excuse me ,coming up for air, we're in the middle of doing our budgets for next year. We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously as we were doing during the referendum effort. And so now we're getting our budgets done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure out what the opportunities are so that's, so theres nothing on deck this moment.

Alfred C. Liggins: Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum, and yes that election was November 7th and now failed.

And so we looked at that.

Hum.

Quite frankly, we also then kind of just pivoted our attention to this Richmond referendum and yes that election was November 7th and now failed. So we're now coming up for water I mean, excuse me coming up for air in the middle of doing our budgets for next year.

Alfred C. Liggins: So we're now coming up for water, I mean excuse me ,coming up for air, we're in the middle of doing our budgets for next year. We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously as we were doing during the referendum effort. And so now we're getting our budgets done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure out what the opportunities are so that's, so theres nothing on deck this moment.

Yeah.

We haven't now we didn't have a bunch of M&A idea projects just sitting on the sideline that we were considering simultaneously.

As we were doing during the referendum.

Alfred C. Liggins: And so now we're getting our budgets done. Look at paying down some debt and then figure out what the opportunities are so that's, so theres nothing on deck this moment.

And so now we're getting a getting a budget done.

Look at paying down some debt and then figure to figure out what the opportunities are so that's yeah.

So theres nothing on deck this moment. It makes sense, maybe just a higher level question. You have four different classes of shares. I think that. When youre looking at the overall capitalization of the business and the. Declining multiples in the in their core businesses. The enterprise value multiple and it's tough to even see what those are in the space right now given all of the. Stress across some of your peers you guys are in a pretty nice position relative to them, but. How. How do you think about that I mean is there a value in having those that sort of <unk>. Trolling. Oh vote voting shares or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just too. Collapsed those to just one share class and simplify simplify that like is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook. Outlook on the world or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of. Four different share classes with different.

So theres nothing on deck this moment.

Bradd Kern: It makes sense, maybe just a higher level question. You have four different classes of shares. I think that when you're looking at the overall capitalization of the business and declining multiples in their core businesses. The enterprise value multiple and it's tough to even see what those are in the space right now given all of the stress across some of your peers, you guys are in a pretty nice position relative to them, but. How do you think about that, I mean is there a value in having those, that sort of controlling voting shares? Or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just to collapsed those to just one share class and simplify that? Is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook on the world? Or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of four different share classes with different voting rights?

Bradd Kern: It makes sense, maybe just a higher level question.

It makes sense, maybe just a higher level question.

Bradd Kern: You have four different classes of shares. I think that when you're looking at the overall capitalization of the business and declining multiples in their core businesses. The enterprise value multiple and it's tough to even see what those are in the space right now given all of the stress across some of your peers, you guys are in a pretty nice position relative to them, but. How do you think about that, I mean is there a value in having those, that sort of controlling voting shares? Or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just to collapsed those to just one share class and simplify that? Is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook on the world? Or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of four different share classes with different voting rights?

Bradd Kern: You have four different classes of shares. I think that when you're looking at the overall capitalization of the business and declining multiples in their core businesses.

You have four different classes of shares.

I think that.

When youre looking at the overall capitalization of the business and the.

Declining multiples in the in their core businesses.

Bradd Kern: The enterprise value multiple and it's tough to even see what those are in the space right now given all of the stress across some of your peers, you guys are in a pretty nice position relative to them, but. How do you think about that, I mean is there a value in having those, that sort of controlling voting shares? Or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just to collapsed those to just one share class and simplify that? Is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook on the world? Or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of four different share classes with different voting rights?

The enterprise value multiple and it's tough to even see what those are in the space right now given all of the.

Stress across some of your peers you guys are in a pretty nice position relative to them, but.

Bradd Kern: How do you think about that? I mean is there a value in having those, that sort of controlling voting shares? Or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just to collapsed those to just one share class and simplify that? Is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook on the world? Or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of four different share classes with different voting rights?

Bradd Kern: How do you think about that? I mean is there a value in having those, that sort of controlling voting shares?

How.

How do you think about that I mean is there a value in having those that sort of <unk>.

Trolling.

Bradd Kern: Or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just to collapsed those to just one share class and simplify that? Is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook on the world? Or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of four different share classes with different voting rights?

Bradd Kern: Or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just to collapsed those to just one share class and simplify that?

Oh vote voting shares or do you think that you could potentially achieve a higher valuation where you're just too.

Collapsed those to just one share class and simplify simplify that like is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook.

Bradd Kern: Is that a remnant of maybe a prior outlook on the world? Or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of four different share classes with different voting rights?

Outlook on the world or is that something that you view as important going forward to have that sort of.

Four different share classes with different.

Alfred C. Liggins: So look, You say it doesn't have value. The answer is yes, it does have value, particularly in this environment, we're a minority certified African American controlled company. At times, we've been African American owned, which is also a different designation because identifiable African American ownership has been over 50%, the family controls about, owns about 50% of the economics of the company. But we benefited greatly from the minority certification, being out there and we've been certified for a long time, so I do think that theres absolutely value there. There are lots of companies that want to do business with the minority owned companies and minority controlled companies for the diversity efforts, but here's what I can also tell you. If we flattened the share structure and had one class of shares, I got zero confidence that investors are going to pile into our stock and give us any sort of multiple uplift, just not going to happen right. I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

Alfred C. Liggins: So look, You say it doesn't have value.

Yes, yes.

Alfred C. Liggins: The answer is yes, it does have value, particularly in this environment, we're a minority certified African American controlled company. At times, we've been African American owned, which is also a different designation because identifiable African American ownership has been over 50%, the family controls about, owns about 50% of the economics of the company. But we benefited greatly from the minority certification, being out there and we've been certified for a long time, so I do think that theres absolutely value there. There are lots of companies that want to do business with the minority owned companies and minority controlled companies for the diversity efforts, but here's what I can also tell you. If we flattened the share structure and had one class of shares, I got zero confidence that investors are going to pile into our stock and give us any sort of multiple uplift, just not going to happen right. I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

Alfred C. Liggins: The answer is yes, it does have value, particularly in this environment, we're a minority certified African American controlled company.

So look I.

You say doesn't have value.

The answer is yes, it does have value, particularly in this environment, whereas surf the web annuity certified.

Alfred C. Liggins: At times, we've been African American owned, which is also a different designation because identifiable African American ownership has been over 50%, the family controls about, owns about 50% of the economics of the company. But we benefited greatly from the minority certification, being out there and we've been certified for a long time, so I do think that theres absolutely value there. There are lots of companies that want to do business with the minority owned companies and minority controlled companies for the diversity efforts, but here's what I can also tell you. If we flattened the share structure and had one class of shares, I got zero confidence that investors are going to pile into our stock and give us any sort of multiple uplift, just not going to happen right. I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

African American controlled company.

At times, we've been African American owned which is also a different designation because identifiable African American ownership has been over 50% of the family controls about owns about 50% of the economics of it.

Alfred C. Liggins: But we benefited greatly from the minority certification, being out there and we've been certified for a long time, so I do think that theres absolutely value there. There are lots of companies that want to do business with the minority owned companies and minority controlled companies for the diversity efforts, but here's what I can also tell you. If we flattened the share structure and had one class of shares, I got zero confidence that investors are going to pile into our stock and give us any sort of multiple uplift, just not going to happen right. I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

Alfred C. Liggins: But we benefited greatly from the minority certification, being out there and we've been certified for a long time, so I do think that theres absolutely value there.

Of the company.

But we benefited greatly from the minority certification.

Being out there.

Alfred C. Liggins: There are lots of companies that want to do business with the minority owned companies and minority controlled companies for the diversity efforts, but here's what I can also tell you. If we flattened the share structure and had one class of shares, I got zero confidence that investors are going to pile into our stock and give us any sort of multiple uplift, just not going to happen right. I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

And we've been certified for a long time, so I do think that theres absolutely value. There there lots of companies that we want to do business with.

With the minority owned companies.

Pain control minority controlled companies.

Alfred C. Liggins: If we flattened the share structure and had one class of shares, I got zero confidence that investors are going to pile into our stock and give us any sort of multiple uplift, just not going to happen right. I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

So the diversity efforts, but here's what I can also value if we flattened the share structure and had one class of shares.

Zero confidence that investors are going to pile into our stock and give us any sort of multiple uplift just not not happen right I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in whether it's radio companies or whether it's cable.

Alfred C. Liggins: right. I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

Alfred C. Liggins: I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

Alfred C. Liggins: I'm not seeing it in any companies across the sectors that we're in, whether it's radio companies, or whether it's cable network companies.

Cable network companies I don't I don't I don't think.

Alfred C. Liggins: companies. I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

Alfred C. Liggins: I don't think the mid-single digit multiples of radio and cable TV programmers has anything to do with their share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

The mid single digit multiples.

Radio and cable TV programmers because anything to do with you have there the share structures right. It has everything to do with People's view on those industries.

Bradd Kern: Okay. That's interesting, I mean I just think of it from a defensive stance [inaudible] While the equity multiple may not be exposed to be higher on that alone. I mean there's been a lot of research on discounts for a controlled businesses and when you are a levered business that people are looking at LTV I would think you'd want to do anything you can too create as much cushion as possible. And then lastly.

Bradd Kern: Okay. That's interesting, I mean I just think of it from a defensive stance [inaudible] While the equity multiple may not be exposed to be higher on that alone.

From a defensive stance what do you think.

Yeah. While the equity multiple may not be exposed to be higher on that alone I mean, there haven't been on there's been a lot of research on. Discounts for a controlled businesses and when you are. Our levered business that people are looking at LTV I would think you'd want to do anything you can too. As much. As much cushion as possible. And then lastly, yes, yes. We create cushing by paying down our debt or issue an equity and we've never had any problem issue an equity no. I mean, we. We don't have them in place now, but in the past we've had our ATM programs into place. And in place and I forgot was a 'twenty or 'twenty one. It was I forgot. One year. In 'twenty one fairly active. <unk> I think we should almost $50 million worth of equity. You know when our stock got some significant lift from DNA African American focus and control of the company because of the whole so does that. I mean, there was a moment in time where in. Our stocks companies like ours, where we're running we took advantage of it. And so if we need more equity capital we are willing to. Two. To issue shares to give ourselves more cushion.

While the equity multiple may not be exposed to be higher on that alone I mean, there haven't been on there's been a lot of research on.

Bradd Kern: I mean there's been a lot of research on discounts for a controlled businesses and when you are a levered business that people are looking at LTV I would think you'd want to do anything you can too create as much cushion as possible. And then lastly.

Discounts for a controlled businesses and when you are.

Our levered business that people are looking at LTV I would think you'd want to do anything you can too.

As much.

As much cushion as possible.

And then lastly, yes, yes.

Alfred C. Liggins: I mean we create cushion by paying down our debt or issue an equity, and we've never had any problem issue an equity no. I mean, we don't have them in place now, but in the past we've had our ATM programs into place and in place, and I forgot was a '20 or '21?. It was one year, no it was in '21, it was fairly active issuing, I think we issued almost $50 million dollars worth of equity? You know when our stock got some significant lift from being a African American focus in control of the company, because of the whole sort of, I mean, there was a moment in time where in stocks, companies like ours, where were running, we took advantage of it. And so if we need more equity capital, we are willing to issue shares to give ourselves more cushion.

Alfred C. Liggins: I mean we create cushion by paying down our debt or issue an equity, and we've never had any problem issue an equity no.

We create cushing by paying down our debt or issue an equity and we've never had any problem issue an equity no.

I mean, we.

We don't have them in place now, but in the past we've had our ATM programs into place.

Alfred C. Liggins: I mean, we don't have them in place now, but in the past we've had our ATM programs into place and in place, and I forgot was a '20 or '21?. It was one year, no it was in '21, it was fairly active issuing, I think we issued almost $50 million dollars worth of equity? You know when our stock got some significant lift from being a African American focus in control of the company, because of the whole sort of, I mean, there was a moment in time where in stocks, companies like ours, where were running, we took advantage of it. And so if we need more equity capital, we are willing to issue shares to give ourselves more cushion.

And in place and I forgot was a 'twenty or 'twenty one.

It was I forgot.

One year.

In 'twenty one fairly active.

<unk> I think we should almost $50 million worth of equity.

You know when our stock got some significant lift from DNA African American focus and control of the company because of the whole so does that.

Alfred C. Liggins: You know when our stock got some significant lift from being a African American focus in control of the company, because of the whole sort of, I mean, there was a moment in time where in stocks, companies like ours, where were running, we took advantage of it. And so if we need more equity capital, we are willing to issue shares to give ourselves more cushion.

I mean, there was a moment in time where in.

Our stocks companies like ours, where we're running we took advantage of it.

And so if we need more equity capital we are willing to.

Alfred C. Liggins: And so if we need more equity capital, we are willing to issue shares to give ourselves more cushion.

Two.

To issue shares to give ourselves more cushion.

Bradd Kern: Okay. And then on, so then the financial question. For 2024, do you have expectations yet for, you know what the contribution of political advertising might be? and your ex-political EBITDA kind of range for looking at year end?

And.

And then so then the financial question.

For 2024.

Do you have expectations yet for.

You know what the contribution of political advertising might be in and your expectations and your ex political.

EBITDA kind of range for looking at year end.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yes, we're going through it right now, we're in the middle of our budgets, it won't be as robust as '22, because we had the Georgia Senate run-offs there and we got a lot of money for that. But we think political for our radio business will give us probably some sort of double digit millions of let's call it $10 million dollars of revenue. And again that's the early start on our budget. And it was, it was kind of like 18 in '22 but we got literally $6 million dollars in Atlanta alone '22, largely due to the Senate races. 2018 year, 18, and timing of which six was in Atlanta, and then we did <unk> in 2013 22 Yankee for glass lack of which foreign offices in Atlanta, So it's still and so what happens in Atlanta on another six in the previous cycle.

Our budgets it won't be as robust as 22, because we had the Georgia Senate run offs, there and we got a lot of money for that now.

But.

Alfred C. Liggins: But we think political for our radio business will give us probably some sort of double digit millions of let's call it $10 million dollars of revenue. And again that's the early start on our budget. And it was, it was kind of like 18 in '22 but we got literally $6 million dollars in Atlanta alone '22, largely due to the Senate races.

Alfred C. Liggins: But we think political for our radio business will give us probably some sort of double digit millions of let's call it $10 million dollars of revenue.

We think political for our radio business will give us probably some sort of double digit.

Millions of let's call it $10 million of.

Of revenue.

Alfred C. Liggins: And again that's the early start on our budget. And it was, it was kind of like 18 in '22 but we got literally $6 million dollars in Atlanta alone '22, largely due to the Senate races.

And again that's the.

Early start on our budget.

And it was.

It was kind of like 18, <unk> and 'twenty, two but we got literally $6 million in Atlanta alone.

Peter D. Thompson: That was in '20, 18 in '20 of which six was in Atlanta, and then we did 13 in '22. Yankee for glass lack of which foreign offices in Atlanta, So it's still and so what happens in Atlanta on another six in the previous cycle.

Peter D. Thompson: That was in '20, 18 in '20 of which six was in Atlanta, and then we did 13 in '22.

<unk> 22, largely.

Due to the Senate races.

2018 year, 18, and timing of which six was in Atlanta, and then we did <unk> in 2013 22 Yankee for glass lack of which foreign offices in Atlanta, So it's still and so what happens in Atlanta on another six in the previous cycle.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah thank you for clarifying offices in Atlanta, So it's still and so what happens in Atlanta on another six in the previous cycle.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah thank you for clarifying [inaudible] in Atlanta, So it's still and so what happens in Atlanta.

Peter D. Thompson: Another six in the previous cycle.

Bradd Kern: Okay. Thanks for taking my questions, appreciate it. I appreciate it alright.

Bradd Kern: Okay. Thanks for taking my questions, appreciate it.

Okay. Thanks for taking my questions appreciate it I appreciate it alright.

Alfred C. Liggins: I appreciate it alright.

Operator: And next we'll go to Matt Swope with Baird. Please go ahead.

Matthew Swope: Yeah, Good morning, Alfred and Peter maybe just to continue on some of the same themes. Alfred where would you like your leverage to be? You've given us some numbers in the past, but where are you comfortable, where you think you are sort of out of harm's way, regardless of what the economy does? Ah I don't milk as harm's way it keeps changing right.

Matthew Swope: Yeah, Good morning, Alfred and Peter maybe just to continue on some of the same themes. Alfred where would you like your leverage to be?

Matthew Swope: You've given us some numbers in the past, but where are you comfortable, where you think you are sort of out of harm's way, regardless of what the economy does?

Ah I don't milk as harm's way it keeps changing right.

Alfred C. Liggins: I don't know cause harms way keeps changing right? I would say that, I like our leverage with a three handle on it but I think we're probably going to finish the year at, call it 38, something like that and I'd like us to March it'll get down into the low threes. But I don't know. I've got no interest in levering up the company to take a swing at something that I think is a good. There was a time when you can lever up these companies and make the assumption that your leverage is going to come down really quickly and therefore you can take some execution risk on something, but thats when you're dealing with businesses that are growing on a consistent basis. Meaning that the macroeconomic profile of these businesses, the market is growing and that used to be the radio business, and that used to be the TV business and you could count on that. Those aren't those business, these aren't those businesses any longer. So we have a mindset that we wouldn't do that so that's the reason I kind of started off the conversation now today talking about we are looking at debt Paydowns.

I would say that. Yeah. I like our leverage with a three handle on it I think we're probably going to finish the year at call. It three eight something like that and. Aye. I would like us to March yeah, I'll get down into the low threes, yes al. <unk>. But I don't know. I've got no interest in levering up the company. Sure. To take a swing. Pat. Yes, some something that I think is a good there was a time when you can lever up these companies and make the assumption that your leverage is going to come down really quickly and therefore. Therefore, you can take some execution risk on something but thats when youre dealing with businesses. <unk> that are growing. On a consistent basis, meaning that the macro. Economic profile of these businesses the market is growing and that used to be the radio business and that used to be the television business that you can count on that. Those aren't those business these aren't those businesses any longer so yes. Yes. We have a mindset that we wouldn't do that so that's the reason I kind of started off the conversation now. Today talking about we are looking at debt Paydown.

Yeah.

I like our leverage with a three handle on it I think we're probably going to finish the year at call. It three eight something like that and.

Aye.

I would like us to March yeah, I'll get down into the low threes, yes al.

Alfred C. Liggins: But I don't know. I've got no interest in levering up the company to take a swing at something that I think is a good. There was a time when you can lever up these companies and make the assumption that your leverage is going to come down really quickly and therefore you can take some execution risk on something, but thats when you're dealing with businesses that are growing on a consistent basis. Meaning that the macroeconomic profile of these businesses, the market is growing and that used to be the radio business, and that used to be the TV business and you could count on that. Those aren't those business, these aren't those businesses any longer. So we have a mindset that we wouldn't do that so that's the reason I kind of started off the conversation now today talking about we are looking at debt Paydowns.

Alfred C. Liggins: But I don't know. I've got no interest in levering up the company to take a swing at something that I think is a good.

<unk>.

But I don't know.

I've got no interest in levering up the company.

Alfred C. Liggins: There was a time when you can lever up these companies and make the assumption that your leverage is going to come down really quickly and therefore you can take some execution risk on something, but thats when you're dealing with businesses that are growing on a consistent basis. Meaning that the macroeconomic profile of these businesses, the market is growing and that used to be the radio business, and that used to be the TV business and you could count on that. Those aren't those business, these aren't those businesses any longer. So we have a mindset that we wouldn't do that so that's the reason I kind of started off the conversation now today talking about we are looking at debt Paydowns.

Sure.

To take a swing.

Pat.

Yes, some something that I think is a good there was a time when you can lever up these companies and make the assumption that your leverage is going to come down really quickly and therefore.

Therefore, you can take some execution risk on something but thats when youre dealing with businesses.

Alfred C. Liggins: Meaning that the macroeconomic profile of these businesses, the market is growing and that used to be the radio business, and that used to be the TV business and you could count on that. Those aren't those business, these aren't those businesses any longer. So we have a mindset that we wouldn't do that so that's the reason I kind of started off the conversation now today talking about we are looking at debt Paydowns.

<unk> that are growing.

On a consistent basis, meaning that the macro.

Economic profile of these businesses the market is growing and that used to be the radio business and that used to be the television business that you can count on that.

Alfred C. Liggins: Those aren't those business, these aren't those businesses any longer. So we have a mindset that we wouldn't do that so that's the reason I kind of started off the conversation now today talking about we are looking at debt Paydowns.

Those aren't those business these aren't those businesses any longer so yes.

Yes.

We have a mindset that we wouldn't do that so that's the reason I kind of started off the conversation now.

Today talking about we are looking at debt Paydown.

Matthew Swope: No I appreciate that, and you guys have definitely done about as good a job as anybody in the industry at that.

Alfred C. Liggins: I appreciate it, I mean look we got a lot to lose, the family has a lot to lose. If you have a misstep right and we're 40 plus years old and and so the aware. Sometimes the equity holders aren't aligned with the debt holders, but we are aligned with the debt holders in this instance, because it's really about preserving your viability right.

If you have a misstep right.

<unk>.

And we're 40 plus years old and.

And so be aware, sometimes the equity holders aren't aligned with the.

With the debt holders, but yes.

We are aligned with the debt holders.

In this instance, because it's really about.

BSA from preserving your viability right.

Sure no that makes sense and as you think Peter about the buyback part of this I guess a couple questions with all the kind of I guess, one would be could you give us a cash update as of where it is today, but then too would be what's the minimum cash you need on the balance sheet at times, it's been like five or $10 million right. You do need to have more cash on the balance sheet from that. What we were talking about a week or so ago I think probably. 50 is is a decent number could it be lower than that yeah, we got some lumpy payments.

Matthew Swope: Sure no that makes sense, And as you think Peter about the buyback part of this, I guess a couple questions. One would be could you give us a cash update as of where it is today? but then two would be, what's the minimum cash you need on the balance sheet? At times it's been like $510 million dollars right? Do you do need to have more cash on the balance sheet that that?

Matthew Swope: Sure no that makes sense, And as you think Peter about the buyback part of this, I guess a couple questions. One would be could you give us a cash update as of where it is today?

Matthew Swope: but then two would be, what's the minimum cash you need on the balance sheet? At times it's been like $510 million dollars right? Do you do need to have more cash on the balance sheet that that?

it's been like five or $10 million right. You do need to have more cash on the balance sheet from that. What we were talking about a week or so ago I think probably. 50 is is a decent number could it be lower than that yeah, we got some lumpy payments.

it's been like five or $10 million right. You do need to have more cash on the balance sheet from that.

You do need to have more cash on the balance sheet from that.

What we were talking about a week or so ago I think probably.

Peter D. Thompson: Look, we were talking about that a week or so ago, I think probably 50 is is a decent number, could it be lower than that? Yeah, we got some lumpy payments from a coupon standpoint, obviously that goes down if we buy back debt, but obviously the semi-annual coupon is chunky. And then some of the TV One programming deals can be can be somewhat chunky. Probably a range is 30 to 50, in terms of what we really need on the balance sheet. So obviously, we've got a lot more than that. Cash on hand today, I think it's $227.5 millions dollars approximately, and that is obviously after we've made the Houston acquisition, which was $27.5 million dollars. So that's why that's why we're on that. [noise] go ahead.

Peter D. Thompson: Look, we were talking about that a week or so ago, I think probably 50 is is a decent number, could it be lower than that?

50 is is a decent number could it be lower than that yeah, we got some lumpy payments.

Coupon standpoint, obviously that goes down if we buy back debt, but obviously the semi annual coupon as chunky.

Peter D. Thompson: Yeah, we got some lumpy payments from a coupon standpoint, obviously that goes down if we buy back debt, but obviously the semi-annual coupon is chunky. And then some of the TV One programming deals can be can be somewhat chunky. Probably a range is 30 to 50, in terms of what we really need on the balance sheet. So obviously, we've got a lot more than that. Cash on hand today, I think it's $227.5 millions dollars approximately, and that is obviously after we've made the Houston acquisition, which was $27.5 million dollars. So that's why that's why we're on that. [noise] go ahead.

Peter D. Thompson: Yeah, we got some lumpy payments from a coupon standpoint, obviously that goes down if we buy back debt, but obviously the semi-annual coupon is chunky.

Then some of the TV one programming deals can be can be somewhat chunky.

Peter D. Thompson: And then some of the TV One programming deals can be can be somewhat chunky. Probably a range is 30 to 50, in terms of what we really need on the balance sheet. So obviously, we've got a lot more than that. Cash on hand today, I think it's $227.5 millions dollars approximately, and that is obviously after we've made the Houston acquisition, which was $27.5 million dollars. So that's why that's why we're on that. [noise] go ahead.

Probably a range is 30 to 50.

In terms of what we really need on the balance sheet. So obviously, we've got a lot more than that.

Cash on hand today, I think it's $227 $5 million.

Absolutely.

Matt.

Peter D. Thompson: Cash on hand today, I think it's $227.5 millions dollars approximately, and that is obviously after we've made the Houston acquisition, which was $27.5 million dollars. So that's why that's why we're on that. [noise] go ahead.

As obviously after we've made the Houston acquisition, which was $27 5 million.

So that's why that's why we're on that.

And how about the point.

Sorry go ahead.

Matthew Swope: I was going to say, as you think about the bond buyback possibilities, given that kind of, you know that you could do something like 150 or 175, even just going off the numbers you just said. Does it make any sense just to do a broader tender for a much bigger number? Or are you restricted at all by the fact that you haven't put your 3Q out yet, like you have do you have to get some financials out before you can do some of this? yeah look we if we were doing open market repurchases I think we would need to do it after Q3, unless we transacted with someone who signed you know a big boy lives. So we were protected in that sense. So so there might be an opportunity to go and find them. <unk> and sign up with us.

<unk> abilities, given that kind of you know that you could you could do something like 150 or 175, even just just going off the numbers you just said.

Matthew Swope: Does it make any sense just to do a broader tender for a much bigger number? Or are you restricted at all by the fact that you haven't put your 3Q out yet, like you have do you have to get some financials out before you can do some of this?

Does it make any sense just to do a broader tender for a much bigger number or are you restricted at all by the fact.

But you haven't put you through Q out yet like you have do you have to get before you can do some of this yeah look we if we were doing open market repurchases I think we would need to do it after Q3, unless we transacted with someone who signed you know a big boy lives. So we were protected in that sense. So so there might be an opportunity to go and find them.

Peter D. Thompson: Yeah look we, if we were doing open market repurchases, I think we would need to do it after Q3, unless we transacted with someone who signed you know a big boil add so we would protect it in that sense. So there might be an opportunity to go and find a block and sign up with a big boiler and do some sooner than later. Following that we'll file Q3 before the end of the year and then we'll put a plan in place. I think as Alfred was saying, our kind of historic MO has been to authorize blocks of $25 million dollars and have, go out in the market and find those blocks, so I think we'd probably take that path. To your point, if we were going to do $150 million dollars, then I think we would probably look at the tender, I don't think we're going to go that route. No not decided yet, but I think Alfred's direction is saying, you know blocks blocks of up to $25 and see where we're at.

Peter D. Thompson: So there might be an opportunity to go and find a block and sign up with a big boiler and do some sooner than later. Following that we'll file Q3 before the end of the year and then we'll put a plan in place. I think as Alfred was saying, our kind of historic MO has been to authorize blocks of $25 million dollars and have, go out in the market and find those blocks, so I think we'd probably take that path. To your point, if we were going to do $150 million dollars, then I think we would probably look at the tender, I don't think we're going to go that route. No not decided yet, but I think Alfred's direction is saying, you know blocks blocks of up to $25 and see where we're at.

<unk> and sign up with us.

Sure.

Failing that we will file Q3 before the end of the year and then we'll put a plan in place I think as Alfred was saying.

Peter D. Thompson: I think as Alfred was saying, our kind of historic MO has been to authorize blocks of $25 million dollars and have, go out in the market and find those blocks, so I think we'd probably take that path. To your point, if we were going to do $150 million dollars, then I think we would probably look at the tender, I don't think we're going to go that route. No not decided yet, but I think Alfred's direction is saying, you know blocks blocks of up to $25 and see where we're at.

Historic M.

<unk> has been to authorize blocks of $25 million and have.

<unk>.

If I go out in the market in front of them find those and find those blocks. So I think we'd probably.

Take that path to your point, if we were going to be $150 million. Then I think we would probably look at the tender I don't think we're gonna go that I don't think we're going to go that route.

Peter D. Thompson: To your point, if we were going to do $150 million dollars, then I think we would probably look at the tender, I don't think we're going to go that route. No not decided yet, but I think Alfred's direction is saying, you know blocks blocks of up to $25 and see where we're at.

Peter D. Thompson: To your point, if we were going to do $150 million dollars, then I think we would probably look at the tender, I don't think we're going to go that route.

No not decided yet, but I think alpha directional direction, saying, you know blocks blocks of up to 25.

Peter D. Thompson: No not decided yet, but I think Alfred's direction is saying, you know blocks blocks of up to $25 and see where we're at.

C a R.

Matthew Swope: Got you no, that's certainly helpful. And then, and then Alfred, is the casino idea dead dead at this point? Or, I know at times, you've looked at places other than Richmond, would you look at something else again?

Matthew Swope: Got you no, that's certainly helpful.

Matthew Swope: And then, and then Alfred, is the casino idea dead dead at this point? Or, I know at times, you've looked at places other than Richmond, would you look at something else again?

I know at times, you've looked at places other than Richmond would you look at would you look at something else again yeah.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, absolutely. It's a great business, we made a lot of money on our MGM investment, we made like 4.5 times our investment. There's risk right, you can overbuild, interest rates are higher now so that was going to put pressure on the returns. And that's a political process right? And we think that getting gaming licenses is a political process and we think we have some advantages there. I mean, I think we're really the only sort of African American owned organization that's really focused on investing in this industry, that I know of, on a significant level. So yes, we would absolutely look at other stuff. I don't know whats going to happen, that fifth license is going to go somewhere in Virginia, we haven't gotten focused yet to see if there's any way that we can participate on any level. I don't know, which city it would go to and who the players would be. There's potentially iGaming, that's going to come to the state of Maryland, it's been, it's public knowledge that legislators there are looking to try to move a bill out of the General Assembly this session and that's very different than sports betting, because sports betting is not profitable, but I gaming is. I have no idea of how they're planning to administer the iGaming structure and licenses, so what I'm seeing is that what they'll probably do is send out a bill that would actually put the question on the ballot, surpass a referendum to get past and then figure out what the structure would be. By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it. Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, absolutely. It's a great business, we made a lot of money on our MGM investment, we made like 4.5 times our investment.

Got.

It's a great business, we made a lot of money.

Our MGM investment we made like four five times are.

Alfred C. Liggins: There's risk right, you can overbuild, interest rates are higher now so that was going to put pressure on the returns. And that's a political process right? And we think that getting gaming licenses is a political process and we think we have some advantages there. I mean, I think we're really the only sort of African American owned organization that's really focused on investing in this industry, that I know of, on a significant level. So yes, we would absolutely look at other stuff. I don't know whats going to happen, that fifth license is going to go somewhere in Virginia, we haven't gotten focused yet to see if there's any way that we can participate on any level. I don't know, which city it would go to and who the players would be. There's potentially iGaming, that's going to come to the state of Maryland, it's been, it's public knowledge that legislators there are looking to try to move a bill out of the General Assembly this session and that's very different than sports betting, because sports betting is not profitable, but I gaming is. I have no idea of how they're planning to administer the iGaming structure and licenses, so what I'm seeing is that what they'll probably do is send out a bill that would actually put the question on the ballot, surpass a referendum to get past and then figure out what the structure would be. By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it. Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

Alfred C. Liggins: There's risk right, you can overbuild, interest rates are higher now so that was going to put pressure on the returns. And that's a political process right?

Our investment.

There's risk right now.

Overbuild interest rates are higher now so that.

It was going to put pressure on the returns and that's a political process right now and we think that when Gaye.

Alfred C. Liggins: And we think that getting gaming licenses is a political process and we think we have some advantages there. I mean, I think we're really the only sort of African American owned organization that's really focused on investing in this industry, that I know of, on a significant level. So yes, we would absolutely look at other stuff. I don't know whats going to happen, that fifth license is going to go somewhere in Virginia, we haven't gotten focused yet to see if there's any way that we can participate on any level. I don't know, which city it would go to and who the players would be. There's potentially iGaming, that's going to come to the state of Maryland, it's been, it's public knowledge that legislators there are looking to try to move a bill out of the General Assembly this session and that's very different than sports betting, because sports betting is not profitable, but I gaming is. I have no idea of how they're planning to administer the iGaming structure and licenses, so what I'm seeing is that what they'll probably do is send out a bill that would actually put the question on the ballot, surpass a referendum to get past and then figure out what the structure would be. By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it. Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

Gaming.

Getting gaming licenses are as a political process and.

And we think we have some.

Advantages there.

As I mean, I think we're really the only sort of.

Alfred C. Liggins: So yes, we would absolutely look at other stuff. I don't know whats going to happen, that fifth license is going to go somewhere in Virginia, we haven't gotten focused yet to see if there's any way that we can participate on any level. I don't know, which city it would go to and who the players would be. There's potentially iGaming, that's going to come to the state of Maryland, it's been, it's public knowledge that legislators there are looking to try to move a bill out of the General Assembly this session and that's very different than sports betting, because sports betting is not profitable, but I gaming is. I have no idea of how they're planning to administer the iGaming structure and licenses, so what I'm seeing is that what they'll probably do is send out a bill that would actually put the question on the ballot, surpass a referendum to get past and then figure out what the structure would be. By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it. Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

African American on the organization that's.

Really focused on investing in this industry that I know of.

On the.

On a significant level. So yes, we would absolutely look at other.

Stuff.

I don't know whats going to happen.

Fifth license is going to go somewhere in Virginia.

Haven't gotten a focused yet to see if there's any way that we can participate on any level I don't know, which city. It would go to an <unk>.

Who the players would be.

Alfred C. Liggins: There's potentially iGaming, that's going to come to the state of Maryland, it's been, it's public knowledge that legislators there are looking to try to move a bill out of the General Assembly this session and that's very different than sports betting, because sports betting is not profitable, but I gaming is. I have no idea of how they're planning to administer the iGaming structure and licenses, so what I'm seeing is that what they'll probably do is send out a bill that would actually put the question on the ballot, surpass a referendum to get past and then figure out what the structure would be. By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it. Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

There is potentially.

Potentially I gaming, that's going to come to the state of Maryland, Yeah. It's been it's public knowledge that legislators there are looking to try to move a bill out of the General Assembly.

This session.

And that's very different in sports betting.

And because of sports betting is not profitable, but I gaming.

Alfred C. Liggins: I have no idea of how they're planning to administer the iGaming structure and licenses, so what I'm seeing is that what they'll probably do is send out a bill that would actually put the question on the ballot, surpass a referendum to get past and then figure out what the structure would be. By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it. Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

As I had no idea how.

We're planning to administer.

Uh huh.

Gaming structure and licenses so what I'm, what I'm seeing is that they'll probably do is send out a bill that would actually put.

The question on the ballot surpass a reference to the referendum to get past and then figure out what the structure would be.

Alfred C. Liggins: By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it. Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

Alfred C. Liggins: By the way our deal with MGM didn't give us access to any online activities or revenues, so no online sports betting if iGaming came, we wouldn't have participated in it.

By the way our deal with MGM getting give us access to any online activities or revenue. So no online sports betting if I gaming Cam we wouldn't have participated in.

Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we. We have any sort of claim and. And so that was that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those. Those opportunities don't grow on trees.

Alfred C. Liggins: Only the bricks and mortar operation now would we have any sort of claim, and so that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize. So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those opportunities don't grow on trees.

We have any sort of claim and.

And so that was that was yet another reason to go ahead and monetize.

So yes, we would look at other stuff, but they're not those.

Those opportunities don't grow on trees.

And.

Got it and then maybe just a last quick one for Peter. The Houston radio sale, that's in your divestiture trusts to Spanish broadcasting. We saw that you extended the timeline on that is there any is there any pressure on that deal does does that does that. Have any other impact on anything else youre doing in Houston or any other issues. There's a there's a there's a finite amount of time that the trust as authorized by the FCC.

Matthew Swope: Got it and then maybe just a last quick one for Peter. With the Houston radio sale, that's in your divestiture trusts to Spanish broadcasting, we saw that you extended the timeline on that. Is there any is there any pressure on that deal? Does that have any other impact on anything else you're doing in Houston or any other issues?

The Houston radio sale, that's in your divestiture trusts to Spanish broadcasting.

We saw that you extended the timeline on that is there any is there any pressure on that deal does does that does that.

Matthew Swope: Is there any is there any pressure on that deal? Does that have any other impact on anything else you're doing in Houston or any other issues?

Have any other impact on anything else youre doing in Houston or any other issues.

There's a there's a there's a finite amount of time that the trust as authorized by the FCC.

Peter D. Thompson: There's a there's a finite amount of time that the trust is authorized by the FCC, but it was, they gave us a two year window to get that done. So the extension that we, so the one station has already been sold and closed on with EMF. And the timeline that we extended for the second stage for Spanish Broadcasting I think the schedule is for it to all be wrapped up by July or something like that, so well within, it's well within the first year right, so. But there is a two year window that we have with the trust, but we suspect that it would be closed out well in advance of that. And theoretically you could extend that a little more if you wanted to even yeah. Yeah, you could gotcha.

Alfred C. Liggins: There's a there's a finite amount of time that the trust is authorized by the FCC, but it was, they gave us a two year window to get that done. So the extension that we, so the one station has already been sold and closed on with EMF. And the timeline that we extended for the second stage for Spanish Broadcasting I think the schedule is for it to all be wrapped up by July or something like that, so well within, it's well within the first year right, so. But there is a two year window that we have with the trust, but we suspect that it would be closed out well in advance of that.

Alfred C. Liggins: There's a there's a finite amount of time that the trust is authorized by the FCC, but it was, they gave us a two year window to get that done.

But it was that gave us a two year window to get that done. So the extension that we so the one station has already been sold and closed on with MF.

Alfred C. Liggins: So the extension that we, so the one station has already been sold and closed on with EMF. And the timeline that we extended for the second stage for Spanish Broadcasting I think the schedule is for it to all be wrapped up by July or something like that, so well within, it's well within the first year right, so. But there is a two year window that we have with the trust, but we suspect that it would be closed out well in advance of that.

And the timeline that we extended.

For the second stage for Spanish Broadcasting I think.

The schedule is for it to all be wrapped up by July or something like that so well within the quarter.

It's well within the first year right, so, but there but there is a two year window that we have with the trust, but we suspect that it would be.

Alfred C. Liggins: But there is a two year window that we have with the trust, but we suspect that it would be closed out well in advance of that.

Closed out well in advance of that.

Peter D. Thompson: And theoretically you could extend that a little more if you wanted to even yeah. Yeah, you could gotcha.

Peter D. Thompson: And theoretically you could extend that a little more if you wanted to even yeah. Yeah, you could

Matthew Swope: And theoretically you could extend it a little more if you wanted to even?

And theoretically you could extend that a little more if you wanted to even yeah.

Peter D. Thompson: Yeah, you could

Yeah, you could gotcha.

Matthew Swope: Gotcha, great. Okay. Thanks, guys I appreciate the questions

Gotcha, great. Okay. Thanks, guys I appreciate the questions yeah. Thanks, Matt.

Matthew Sandschafer: Gotcha, great. Okay. Thanks, guys I appreciate the questions

Peter D. Thompson: Thanks, Matt.

Operator: And next we will move to Kenta Shimojo with Wellington. Please go ahead.

Kenta Shimojo: Good morning, and thanks for taking my questions, and not to rehash Matt's question, but I appreciate you're still digesting the Richmond outcome. I'm just kind of curious if you have any thoughts as to timing for that, is license or any kind of milestones or mile markers that investors should be looking for in terms of when that gets revisited?

Alfred C. Liggins: I mean, it's a process that's going to probably play out in the General Assembly this year again. We're nowhere in terms of whether or not we're looking into it right, and we haven't, we really just kind of came up, like I said, for air after, and so, but I, but I assume that something will happen in this session. I do know that there is a group of folks that want to propose, and I know that there's a state senator that is going to propose a bill to put it somewhere in Northern Virginia, like Reston Tysons. So you've got the Northern Virginia, there's going to be a push for Northern Virginia, I'm hearing that the city of Petersburg is interested again and we'd like to try to get it there as they did last go around but we wanted a second vote in Richmond, and so we lobbied against that. So I just don't have, I don't have any information on what the state of play is, other than people are positioning themselves for this legislative session and, I don't know whats going to happen, but I suspect that you'll see a direction, one way or the other coming out of this legislative session.

Alfred C. Liggins: I mean, it's a process that's going to probably play out in the General Assembly this year again.

We're nowhere in terms of whether or not we're.

Alfred C. Liggins: We're nowhere in terms of whether or not we're looking into it right, and we haven't, we really just kind of came up, like I said, for air after, and so, but I, but I assume that something will happen in this session. I do know that there is a group of folks that want to propose, and I know that there's a state senator that is going to propose a bill to put it somewhere in Northern Virginia, like Reston Tysons. So you've got the Northern Virginia, there's going to be a push for Northern Virginia, I'm hearing that the city of Petersburg is interested again and we'd like to try to get it there as they did last go around but we wanted a second vote in Richmond, and so we lobbied against that. So I just don't have, I don't have any information on what the state of play is, other than people are positioning themselves for this legislative session and, I don't know whats going to happen, but I suspect that you'll see a direction, one way or the other coming out of this legislative session.

Now.

Looking into it right and we haven't we.

We really just kind of came up like I said for air after.

<unk>.

And so, but I, but I assume that something will happen and.

Alfred C. Liggins: I do know that there is a group of folks that want to propose, and I know that there's a state senator that is going to propose a bill to put it somewhere in Northern Virginia, like Reston Tysons. So you've got the Northern Virginia, there's going to be a push for Northern Virginia, I'm hearing that the city of Petersburg is interested again and we'd like to try to get it there as they did last go around but we wanted a second vote in Richmond, and so we lobbied against that. So I just don't have, I don't have any information on what the state of play is, other than people are positioning themselves for this legislative session and, I don't know whats going to happen, but I suspect that you'll see a direction, one way or the other coming out of this legislative session.

This session I.

I do know that there is a group of folks that want to propose and I know that there was a state senator that is going to propose a bill to put it somewhere in northern Virginia like rest in our Tysons. So you've got the northern Virginia, Northern Theres going to be a push for northern Virginia, I'm hearing that the city of Petersburg as interested again, we'd like to.

Alfred C. Liggins: So you've got the Northern Virginia, there's going to be a push for Northern Virginia, I'm hearing that the city of Petersburg is interested again and we'd like to try to get it there as they did last go around but we wanted a second vote in Richmond, and so we lobbied against that. So I just don't have, I don't have any information on what the state of play is, other than people are positioning themselves for this legislative session and, I don't know whats going to happen, but I suspect that you'll see a direction, one way or the other coming out of this legislative session.

To try to get it there as they did last go around.

Gal.

We wanted a second vote in Richmond, and so we lobbied against that.

Alfred C. Liggins: So I just don't have, I don't have any information on what the state of play is, other than people are positioning themselves for this legislative session and, I don't know whats going to happen, but I suspect that you'll see a direction, one way or the other coming out of this legislative session.

So I just don't have I don't have any information on what the state of play is other than people are positioning themselves.

For this legislative session and.

And.

And I don't know whats going to happen, but I.

I suspect that you'll see a direction, one way or the other coming out of this legislative session.

Kenta Shimojo: Appreciate that color. And then just thinking about the adjacent investment opportunities, or the prospective opportunities to invest further afield from radio and even gaming that you alluded to. Do you have any additional constraints that you'd be putting on yourselves in terms of like size or maybe a higher IRR threshold or leverage cap, just given the sort of additional risk of moving further afield?

Kenta Shimojo: Appreciate that color.

Kenta Shimojo: And then just thinking about the adjacent investment opportunities, or the prospective opportunities to invest further afield from radio and even gaming that you alluded to. Do you have any additional constraints that you'd be putting on yourselves in terms of like size or maybe a higher IRR threshold or leverage cap, just given the sort of additional risk of moving further afield?

Kenta Shimojo: And then just thinking about the adjacent investment opportunities, or the prospective opportunities to invest further afield from radio and even gaming that you alluded to.

Kenta Shimojo: Do you have any additional constraints that you'd be putting on yourselves in terms of like size or maybe a higher IRR threshold or leverage cap, just given the sort of additional risk of moving further afield?

You alluded to.

Do you have any additional constraints that you'd be putting on yourselves in terms of size or maybe a higher IRR threshold or leverage cap just given the sort of additional risk of moving further afield.

Alfred C. Liggins: We don't think about that. I mean like in all. If we look at each deal on its merits. Yeah. I can tell you that. I mean, we're not a venture capital fund we don't you know, we're not sitting here, making a bunch of early stage. Do you have investments in. And start up companies that we think are going to. B 10, Baggers right, we generally have. Wanted to invest in things that we thought were going to deliver. Our cash return. EBIT, Bob if we could ultimately bring into the company and count right now. I mean, because you could look at investment. Lots of people in the investment business to make money. On companies that actually don't make money right like and just increase in value. Because of whatever reason we've never. Cuz, we come from cash flow generative businesses, we have a bias towards cash on cash returns you know. So. So my sense is if youre going to look for a much higher return than 20 plus percent on something you probably going into something that's more speculative that new age and you know in early stage and that's just that's just not how are you all. Our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

Alfred C. Liggins: We don't think about that. I mean like in all.

If we look at each deal on its merits.

Alfred C. Liggins: If we look at each deal on its merits. Yeah. I can tell you that. I mean, we're not a venture capital fund we don't you know, we're not sitting here, making a bunch of early stage. Do you have investments in. And start up companies that we think are going to. B 10, Baggers right, we generally have. Wanted to invest in things that we thought were going to deliver. Our cash return. EBIT, Bob if we could ultimately bring into the company and count right now. I mean, because you could look at investment. Lots of people in the investment business to make money. On companies that actually don't make money right like and just increase in value. Because of whatever reason we've never. Cuz, we come from cash flow generative businesses, we have a bias towards cash on cash returns you know. So. So my sense is if youre going to look for a much higher return than 20 plus percent on something you probably going into something that's more speculative that new age and you know in early stage and that's just that's just not how are you all. Our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

Peter D. Thompson: If we look at each deal on its merits.

Yeah.

I can tell you that.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, I can tell you that. I mean we're not a venture capital fund, we're not sitting here making a bunch of early stage investments in start-up companies that we think are going to be 10 baggers right, we generally have kind of wanted to invest in things that we thought were going to deliver a cash return EBITDA but we could ultimately bring it to the company and count right. And because you could look at investments, lots of people in the investment business make money on companies that actually don't make money right, like just increase in value because of whatever reason. We've never, because we come from cash flow generative businesses, we have a bias towards cash on cash returns, you know and so my sense is, if you're going to look for a much higher return than 20+ percent on something, you're probably going into something that's more speculative and new-ish and, you know, in early stage and that's just never, that's just not how our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, I can tell you that.

I mean, we're not a venture capital fund we don't you know, we're not sitting here, making a bunch of early stage.

Alfred C. Liggins: I mean we're not a venture capital fund, we're not sitting here making a bunch of early stage investments in start-up companies that we think are going to be 10 baggers right, we generally have kind of wanted to invest in things that we thought were going to deliver a cash return EBITDA but we could ultimately bring it to the company and count right. And because you could look at investments, lots of people in the investment business make money on companies that actually don't make money right, like just increase in value because of whatever reason. We've never, because we come from cash flow generative businesses, we have a bias towards cash on cash returns, you know and so my sense is, if you're going to look for a much higher return than 20+ percent on something, you're probably going into something that's more speculative and new-ish and, you know, in early stage and that's just never, that's just not how our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

Do you have investments in.

And start up companies that we think are going to.

B 10, Baggers right, we generally have.

Wanted to invest in things that we thought were going to deliver.

Our cash return.

EBIT, Bob if we could ultimately bring into the company and count right now.

Alfred C. Liggins: And because you could look at investments, lots of people in the investment business make money on companies that actually don't make money right, like just increase in value because of whatever reason. We've never, because we come from cash flow generative businesses, we have a bias towards cash on cash returns, you know and so my sense is, if you're going to look for a much higher return than 20+ percent on something, you're probably going into something that's more speculative and new-ish and, you know, in early stage and that's just never, that's just not how our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

I mean, because you could look at investment.

Lots of people in the investment business to make money.

On companies that actually don't make money right like and just increase in value.

Alfred C. Liggins: We've never, because we come from cash flow generative businesses, we have a bias towards cash on cash returns, you know and so my sense is, if you're going to look for a much higher return than 20+ percent on something. You're probably going into something that's more speculative and new-ish and, you know, in early stage and that's just never, that's just not how our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

Because of whatever reason we've never.

Cuz, we come from cash flow generative businesses, we have a bias towards cash on cash returns you know.

So.

So my sense is if youre going to look for a much higher return than 20 plus percent on something you probably going into something that's more speculative that new age and you know in early stage and that's just that's just not how are you all.

Alfred C. Liggins: You're probably going into something that's more speculative and new-ish and, you know, in early stage and that's just never, that's just not how our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

Our mindsets have worked in around here because of the nature of the businesses that we're already in.

Unknown Analyst: Yes fair enough, a Four bagger will do. So last one for me, there were a few recent instances of asset sales, in the broader industry, where noncommercial operators came in and kind of picked up pops at pretty interesting multiples. I'm just kind of curious if you have any sticks that are noncore to you that might be seen as strategic to the few non-cons that are out there?

Unknown Analyst: Yes fair enough, a Four bagger will do.

Unknown Analyst: So last one for me, there were a few recent instances of asset sales, in the broader industry, where noncommercial operators came in and kind of picked up pops at pretty interesting multiples. I'm just kind of curious if you have any sticks that are noncore to you that might be seen as strategic to the few non-cons that are out there?

So last one for me.

There were a few recent instances of asset sales in the broader industry, where noncommercial operators came in kind of picked up pops that pretty interesting multiples I'm just kind of curious if you have any stats that are noncore to you that might be seen as strategic to the few non cons that are out there.

Unknown Analyst: I'm just kind of curious if you have any sticks that are noncore to you that might be seen as strategic to the few non-cons that are out there?

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, I mean, I've gotten approached recently for one of our markets, I've actually gotten push for a couple of our markets. The problem is, and we've said no, in one of the, we thought about it, and one of the problems is, you know. Does it weaken our position in that market versus something that we might want to do that is going to get us a bigger return, not mentioning the market. But in one of them it would make it make us weaker against a competitor there and ultimately we think there's an opportunity to buy the competitor and do really really well. So I don't I don't really want to take the pressure off of that competitor before they sale. And the money is not enough, it's not big enough right now to make a huge debt, it's kind of like, $7 million dollars, $8 million dollars or something like that. And we have cash flow already in that market, so if we peel that asset off it's also gonna degrade the cash flow in that market, maybe run it to zero. And so, so you've got a lot that, even if you just use a five multiple for radio, which is probably low. If you lose $1 million dollars of cash flow and somebody gives you eight like your net in $3 million, so it's not worth it right. So I mean if we needed the cash or something then that's a different story, but today, we don't need the cash for it. So, but yes, we've gotten a couple of those inbounds, but nobody, we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million dollars for.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, I mean, I've gotten approached recently for one of our markets, I've actually gotten push for a couple of our markets.

Actually gotten push for a couple of our markets.

The problem.

Alfred C. Liggins: The problem is, and we've said no, in one of the, we thought about it, and one of the problems is, you know. Does it weaken our position in that market versus something that we might want to do that is going to get us a bigger return, not mentioning the market. But in one of them it would make it make us weaker against a competitor there and ultimately we think there's an opportunity to buy the competitor and do really really well. So I don't I don't really want to take the pressure off of that competitor before they sale. And the money is not enough, it's not big enough right now to make a huge debt, it's kind of like, $7 million dollars, $8 million dollars or something like that. And we have cash flow already in that market, so if we peel that asset off it's also gonna degrade the cash flow in that market, maybe run it to zero. And so, so you've got a lot that, even if you just use a five multiple for radio, which is probably low. If you lose $1 million dollars of cash flow and somebody gives you eight like your net in $3 million, so it's not worth it right. So I mean if we needed the cash or something then that's a different story, but today, we don't need the cash for it. So, but yes, we've gotten a couple of those inbounds, but nobody, we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million dollars for.

And we've said no.

And one of the we thought about it and one of the problems is as you know does it weaken our position in that market versus.

Something that we.

Might want to do that is going to get us a bigger return.

Alfred C. Liggins: But in one of them it would make it make us weaker against a competitor there and ultimately we think there's an opportunity to buy the competitor and do really really well. So I don't I don't really want to take the pressure off of that competitor before they sale. And the money is not enough, it's not big enough right now to make a huge debt, it's kind of like, $7 million dollars, $8 million dollars or something like that. And we have cash flow already in that market, so if we peel that asset off it's also gonna degrade the cash flow in that market, maybe run it to zero. And so, so you've got a lot that, even if you just use a five multiple for radio, which is probably low. If you lose $1 million dollars of cash flow and somebody gives you eight like your net in $3 million, so it's not worth it right. So I mean if we needed the cash or something then that's a different story, but today, we don't need the cash for it. So, but yes, we've gotten a couple of those inbounds, but nobody, we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million dollars for.

Alfred C. Liggins: But in one of them it would make it make us weaker against a competitor there and ultimately we think there's an opportunity to buy the competitor and do really really well.

<unk> not mentioned in the market.

But in one of them would make it make us weaker against a competitor there and ultimately we think theres an opportunity to buy the competitor and do really really well. So I don't I don't really want to take the pressure off.

Alfred C. Liggins: So I don't I don't really want to take the pressure off of that competitor before they sale. And the money is not enough, it's not big enough right now to make a huge debt, it's kind of like, $7 million dollars, $8 million dollars or something like that. And we have cash flow already in that market, so if we peel that asset off it's also gonna degrade the cash flow in that market, maybe run it to zero. And so, so you've got a lot that, even if you just use a five multiple for radio, which is probably low. If you lose $1 million dollars of cash flow and somebody gives you eight like your net in $3 million, so it's not worth it right. So I mean if we needed the cash or something then that's a different story, but today, we don't need the cash for it. So, but yes, we've gotten a couple of those inbounds, but nobody, we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million dollars for.

Of that competitor before.

Before they sale.

They sell and the money is not enough, it's not big enough right now to.

To make a big.

To make a huge debt it's kind of like.

$7 million $8 million or something like that and we have cash flow already.

Alfred C. Liggins: And we have cash flow already in that market, so if we peel that asset off it's also gonna degrade the cash flow in that market, maybe run it to zero. And so, so you've got a lot that, even if you just use a five multiple for radio, which is probably low. If you lose $1 million dollars of cash flow and somebody gives you eight like your net in $3 million, so it's not worth it right. So I mean if we needed the cash or something then that's a different story, but today, we don't need the cash for it. So, but yes, we've gotten a couple of those inbounds, but nobody, we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million dollars for.

Alfred C. Liggins: And we have cash flow already in that market, so if we peel that asset off it's also gonna degrade the cash flow in that market, maybe run it to zero.

And that Mark so if we peel that asset off it's also done.

The grade the cash flow.

In that market, maybe run it to zero.

Alfred C. Liggins: And so, so you've got a lot that, even if you just use a five multiple for radio, which is probably low. If you lose $1 million dollars of cash flow and somebody gives you eight like your net in $3 million, so it's not worth it right. So I mean if we needed the cash or something then that's a different story, but today, we don't need the cash for it. So, but yes, we've gotten a couple of those inbounds, but nobody, we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million dollars for.

And so yes, so you've got a lot that that even if you just use a five multiple for radio which is.

Probably low.

If you if you if you lose $1 million of cash flow.

And somebody gives you eight like your net and $3 million, it's not it's not worth it right. Yeah. So I mean, we needed the cash or something.

Alfred C. Liggins: So I mean if we needed the cash or something then that's a different story, but today, we don't need the cash for it. So, but yes, we've gotten a couple of those inbounds, but nobody, we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million dollars for.

Then.

That's a different story, but today, we don't need no.

The cash for it so but yes, we've gotten we've got a couple of those inbounds, but nobody knows we've got nothing that somebody wants to pay $20 million for.

Unknown Analyst: Understood. Thanks, so much for your time Alfred and Peter.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yes.

Operator: Again, that's one zero to ask a question. Next we can move to Marilyn [inaudible] with bank of America.

Unknown Analyst: Hi, Alfred and Peter Hope all is well. You've answered most of my questions, but just a quick follow up. The 3.55 leverage that you mentioned that's for 3Q is that correct? Correct, Okay, and then by end of the year, you'll be around three eight. Is that actually maybe some incremental debt reduction or just some moving around in cash.

Unknown Analyst: Hi, Alfred and Peter Hope all is well. You've answered most of my questions, but just a quick follow up. The 3.55 leverage that you mentioned that's for 3Q is that correct?

<unk> answered most of my questions, but just a quick follow up there's 34355 leverage that you mentioned that the first three Q is that correct.

Unknown Analyst: Correct, Okay, and then by end of the year, you'll be around three eight. Is that actually maybe some incremental debt reduction or just some moving around in cash.

Peter D. Thompson: Correct,

Unknown Analyst: Okay, and then by end of the year, you'll be around 38. Is that actually incorporating maybe some incremental debt reduction or just some moving around in cash? [inaudible] with the EBITDA

Correct, Okay, and then by end of the year, you'll be around three eight.

Is that actually maybe some incremental debt reduction or just some moving around in cash.

Peter D. Thompson: Yeah, sorry, the fact that it's moving upwards between where we're right now and between Q2 in the end of the year, was that the question or no? 355 first three yes, you and I was just asking if the around three eight by year end considers any incremental debt reduction or is it just not moving around a bit okay. No. Its cash it's cash moving around and then obviously the back half as we said is going to be softer because of a lack of political so keep so Q4 when you. LTM and then we roll into Q4, we're going to be missing. $8 million of political so so we'll just have a lower LTM EBITDA by the time, we roll into Q4.

Peter D. Thompson: Yeah, sorry, the fact that it's moving upwards between where we're now and between Q2 in the end of the year, was that the question or no?

Well right now and.

Between Q2, and the end of the year was that the question or no.

Peter D. Thompson: Your 3.55 for 3Q, and I was just asking if the, around 3.8 by year end considers any incremental debt reduction or is it just cash moving around a bit? okay. No. Its cash it's cash moving around and then obviously the back half as we said is going to be softer because of a lack of political so keep so Q4 when you. LTM and then we roll into Q4, we're going to be missing. $8 million of political so so we'll just have a lower LTM EBITDA by the time, we roll into Q4.

Unknown Analyst: Your 3.55 for 3Q, and I was just asking if the, around 3.8 by year end considers any incremental debt reduction or is it just cash moving around a bit? okay.

355 first three yes, you and I was just asking if the around three eight by year end considers any incremental debt reduction or is it just not moving around a bit okay. No. Its cash it's cash moving around and then obviously the back half as we said is going to be softer because of a lack of political so keep so Q4 when you.

Peter D. Thompson: No. It's cash, it's cash moving around, and obviously the back half as we said is going to be softer because of a lack of political. So Q4, you know when you LTM it and then we roll into Q4, we're going to be missing $8 million dollars of political, so we'll just have a lower LTM, EBITDA by the time, we roll into Q4.

Peter D. Thompson: No. It's cash, it's cash moving around, and obviously the back half as we said is going to be softer because of a lack of political.

Peter D. Thompson: So Q4, you know when you LTM it and then we roll into Q4, we're going to be missing $8 million dollars of political, so we'll just have a lower LTM, EBITDA by the time, we roll into Q4.

LTM and then we roll into Q4, we're going to be missing.

$8 million of political so so we'll just have a lower LTM EBITDA by the time, we roll into Q4.

Unknown Analyst: Got it. And then you know, I think it was the last call you had mentioned free cash flow maybe in the mid $60 million area and that depended, you know, kind of where capex comes out to, obviously with a number of moving parts, whether it be Richmond or anything else. Are you still thinking about it in that context for the year? And then any comments on Capex, potentially for next year, that you'd be willing to share.

Unknown Analyst: Are you still thinking about it in that context for the year? And then any comments on Capex, potentially for next year, that you'd be willing to share.

On Capex potentially for next year that you'd be willing to go out there.

Peter D. Thompson: Yeah, I think it's lower than that now and mostly that was $5 million of referendum costs, and then as pod cleaning up all the material weaknesses we've had to hire a bunch of consultants and that's kind of $4 million dollars in rise and at the moment just to remediate a bunch of this stuff. So that's, so those two things have eaten $9-$10 million dollars of cash, so I think it having a slightly, slightly less although both of those are one time only right so that's worth pointing out. On Capex, we don't know, we're going through the budgets as Alfred said, the one sort of couple of big things, we need to consolidate in Indianapolis and thats going to cost. You know some some millions of dollars to put those facilities together and buy new equipment. I think at the moment, we might be looking at a kind of $10-ish million Capex for next year, we normally run at 7, so that would be a little higher for next year. But it's preliminary and we tend to manage capex in a very tight manner. So there may be some other things that we choose not to do next year if we if we need to spend the money in the Indianapolis facility.

Most of that was $5 million of referendum costs, and then as pod cleaning up all the material weaknesses, we've had to hire a bunch of consultants and that's kind of $4 million in <unk>.

And at the moment just to remediate.

A bunch of this stuff. So that's so those two things.

$9 million to $10 million of cash so I think having a slightly.

Peter D. Thompson: So that's, so those two things have eaten $9-$10 million dollars of cash, so I think it having a slightly, slightly less although both of those are one time only right so that's worth pointing out. On Capex, we don't know, we're going through the budgets as Alfred said, the one sort of couple of big things, we need to consolidate in Indianapolis and thats going to cost. You know some some millions of dollars to put those facilities together and buy new equipment. I think at the moment, we might be looking at a kind of $10-ish million Capex for next year, we normally run at 7, so that would be a little higher for next year. But it's preliminary and we tend to manage capex in a very tight manner. So there may be some other things that we choose not to do next year if we if we need to spend the money in the Indianapolis facility.

It's slightly less although both of those are one time only right. So.

That's worth perhaps worth pointing out.

Peter D. Thompson: On Capex, we don't know, we're going through the budgets as Alfred said, the one sort of couple of big things, we need to consolidate in Indianapolis and thats going to cost. You know some some millions of dollars to put those facilities together and buy new equipment. I think at the moment, we might be looking at a kind of $10-ish million Capex for next year, we normally run at 7, so that would be a little higher for next year. But it's preliminary and we tend to manage capex in a very tight manner. So there may be some other things that we choose not to do next year if we if we need to spend the money in the Indianapolis facility.

Peter D. Thompson: On Capex, we don't know, we're going through the budgets as Alfred said, the one sort of couple of big things, we need to consolidate in Indianapolis and thats going to cost.

On Capex.

We don't know we're going through the budgets as Alfred said the one the one that we are a couple of big things, we need to consolidate and Indianapolis and thats going to cost.

Peter D. Thompson: You know some some millions of dollars to put those facilities together and buy new equipment. I think at the moment, we might be looking at a kind of $10-ish million Capex for next year, we normally run at 7, so that would be a little higher for next year. But it's preliminary and we tend to manage capex in a very tight manner. So there may be some other things that we choose not to do next year if we if we need to spend the money in the Indianapolis facility.

Peter D. Thompson: You know some some millions of dollars to put those facilities together and buy new equipment.

You know some some millions of dollars to put those facilities together and buy new equipment.

Peter D. Thompson: I think at the moment, we might be looking at a kind of $10-ish million Capex for next year, we normally run at 7, so that would be a little higher for next year. But it's preliminary and we tend to manage capex in a very tight manner. So there may be some other things that we choose not to do next year if we if we need to spend the money in the Indianapolis facility.

Peter D. Thompson: I think at the moment, we might be looking at a kind of $10-ish million Capex for next year, we normally run at 7, so that would be a little higher for next year.

I think at the moment, we might be looking at a kind of 10 ish million Capex for next year. When we normally run at 7% so that would be a little higher for next year, but it is preliminary and we tend to.

Peter D. Thompson: But it's preliminary and we tend to manage capex in a very tight manner. So there may be some other things that we choose not to do next year if we if we need to spend the money in the Indianapolis facility.

Manage capex and a very tight manner. So there may be some other things that we choose not to do next year. If we if we need to spend the money on the Indianapolis facility.

Unknown Analyst: Great. That's all I have thank you.

Peter D. Thompson: Great. Thank you.

Operator: Next we'll go to Hal Steiner with BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Hal Steiner: Hi, guys, thanks for taking my question. I was hoping, could you just spend a little bit time talking about the TV network side of the business, and maybe just run through like what would the, I guess I'm focusing really on the affiliate fees, in terms of what could be the timing of any like carriage renewals, if there's any big ones and just maybe what your strategy is heading into all that? Carriage renewals, we just renewed Verizon they were up in October and we just renewed them for another couple of years.

Hal Steiner: Hi, guys, thanks for taking my question.

Hal Steiner: I was hoping, could you just spend a little bit time talking about the TV network side of the business, and maybe just run through like what would the, I guess I'm focusing really on the affiliate fees, in terms of what could be the timing of any like carriage renewals, if there's any big ones and just maybe what your strategy is heading into all that?

Like what would the I guess I'm focusing really on.

The affiliate fees in terms of what could be the timing of any like carriage renewals, if theres any big ones and just maybe what your strategy is heading into all that.

Carriage renewals, we just renewed Verizon they were up in October and we just renewed them for another couple of years.

Alfred C. Liggins: Carriage renewals, we just renewed Verizon, they were up in October and we just renewed them for another couple of years. Our next carriage renewal is not till the end of '25, right Jody? In the third quarter. In the third quarter 'twenty five. So we've got we had a small one. Got one small streamer that we did a one year extension on that we've got to come out of it it's small but. Our our big deals don't come up too. The first one at the end of 'twenty five and then the next one is the end of 2006 beginning into 'twenty seven. Yes. 97% of our sub base with one quarter.

Our next carriage renewal is not till the end. 25. Thanks Jody. In the third quarter. In the third quarter 'twenty five. So we've got we had a small one. Got one small streamer that we did a one year extension on that we've got to come out of it it's small but. Our our big deals don't come up too. The first one at the end of 'twenty five and then the next one is the end of 2006 beginning into 'twenty seven. Yes. 97% of our sub base with one quarter.

25.

Thanks Jody.

In the third quarter.

Alfred C. Liggins: In the third quarter. In the third quarter 'twenty five. So we've got we had a small one. Got one small streamer that we did a one year extension on that we've got to come out of it it's small but. Our our big deals don't come up too. The first one at the end of 'twenty five and then the next one is the end of 2006 beginning into 'twenty seven. Yes. 97% of our sub base with one quarter.

Jody Drewer: In the third quarter of '25.

In the third quarter 'twenty five.

Alfred C. Liggins: In the third quarter of '25. So we've got, we had a small one, we got one small streamer that we did a one year extension on, that we've got to come out of it it's small but our big deals don't come up till, the first one at the end of '25 and then the next one is the end of '26, beginning of '27. Yes. 97% of our sub base is locked up through the third quarter of '25 [inaudible]

Alfred C. Liggins: In the third quarter of '25.

Alfred C. Liggins: So we've got, we had a small one, we got one small streamer that we did a one year extension on, that we've got to come out of it it's small but our big deals don't come up till, the first one at the end of '25 and then the next one is the end of '26, beginning of '27.

So we've got we had a small one.

Got one small streamer that we did a one year extension on that we've got to come out of it it's small but.

Our our big deals don't come up too.

The first one at the end of 'twenty five and then the next one is the end of 2006 beginning into 'twenty seven.

Jody Drewer: Yes. 97% of our sub base is locked up through the third quarter of '25 [inaudible]

Yes.

97% of our sub base with one quarter.

Hal Steiner: Got it, that's great, Okay that's very helpful. I guess just, could you just maybe give a little color about how you think about sort of just what like your sort of positioning is in sort of the bundle right. I mean, there's just a lot of talk about that and concern about that, and how the bundle sort of evolves and just if you could give any color about what you think your position is and ability to stay in there would help.

Hal Steiner: Got it, that's great, Okay that's very helpful.

Awesome.

Okay.

Hal Steiner: I guess just, could you just maybe give a little color about how you think about sort of just what like your sort of positioning is in sort of the bundle right. I mean, there's just a lot of talk about that and concern about that, and how the bundle sort of evolves and just if you could give any color about what you think your position is and ability to stay in there would help.

Hal Steiner: I guess just, could you just maybe give a little color about how you think about sort of just what like your sort of positioning is in sort of the bundle right?

Got it got it that's great.

Okay, that's very helpful.

Just could you just maybe give a little color about how you think about sort of just look like you're sort of positioning is in sort of the bundle right. I mean, there's just a lot of talk about that a concern about that and how the bundle sort of evolves and just if you could give any color about what you think your position as an ability to stay in there would help.

Hal Steiner: I mean, there's just a lot of talk about that and concern about that, and how the bundle sort of evolves and just if you could give any color about what you think your position is and ability to stay in there would help.

Alfred C. Liggins: I mean, we feel good about it, I mean, you know we've always been an independent network, I mean we've never been part of a big group and yeah I mean, I think that the environment has changed but there's also been a move towards a more diverse content, of which we have. I do think the fact that we're an African American owned entity is important. And so, I mean we've got great relationships with all the operators, except for we're not on Dish, and then we're not on Youtube TV or Hulu at this point in time, so we've got to try to figure that out but. Yes I mean, I'm not going to be as yet, I mean, I know that the environment has changed dramatically, but we, you know. Nothing has led us to believe that operators still don't see TV One and now Cleo as valuable, including the renewal that we just did two weeks ago.

As has changed but there is also.

Ben.

Our move to.

Towards.

Yeah more diverse.

Content of which you know we have I do think the fact that we're.

Alfred C. Liggins: I do think the fact that we're an African American owned entity is important. And so, I mean we've got great relationships with all the operators, except for we're not on Dish, and then we're not on Youtube TV or Hulu at this point in time, so we've got to try to figure that out but. Yes I mean, I'm not going to be as yet, I mean, I know that the environment has changed dramatically, but we, you know. Nothing has led us to believe that operators still don't see TV One and now Cleo as valuable, including the renewal that we just did two weeks ago.

An African American owned entity is.

It is important.

And so.

I mean.

We've got great relationships with the.

Yes.

With all the operators, except for we're not on dish.

And then we're not on Youtube TV Hulu at this point in time, so we've got to try to.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yes I mean, I'm not going to be as yet, I mean, I know that the environment has changed dramatically, but we, you know. Nothing has led us to believe that operators still don't see TV One and now Cleo as valuable, including the renewal that we just did two weeks ago.

All of that out but.

Yes.

I mean, I'm not going to be S. Yeah, I mean, I know that the.

The environment has changed dramatically, but we you know.

Nothing has led us to believe that.

Operators still don't see TV, one and now Cleo as valuable including the renewal that we just did two weeks ago.

Hal Steiner: Got it, and I mean, a lot of what you said is what I would have imagined so I really appreciate that color and I say that affirmation. I guess on the digital side of the business, you know obviously, slowing a bit with some of the cyclical pressures, but could you maybe speak a little bit more about just your ability to kind of grow that business and, if there's maybe the properties out there that could be more targets to easily add in. And then any color you can give me there would be helpful.

Hal Steiner: Got it, and I mean, a lot of what you said is what I would have imagined so I really appreciate that color and I say that affirmation.

Hal Steiner: I guess on the digital side of the business, you know obviously, slowing a bit with some of the cyclical pressures, but could you maybe speak a little bit more about just your ability to kind of grow that business and, if there's maybe the properties out there that could be more targets to easily add in. And then any color you can give me there would be helpful.

I went a little bit with some of the cyclical pressures, but could you maybe speak a little bit more about just your ability to kind of grow that business and if there's maybe the properties out there that could be more targets to easily add in.

Hal Steiner: And then any color you can give me there would be helpful.

And then any color you can give me there would be helpful.

Alfred C. Liggins: Right. I'm happy that it's profitable right now and yes, you're right there's ad revenue pressures and so. Digital is so tricky right, so right now you've got to add, you got you got you got you got to add revenue pressures, but I think we've been doing decently in that slowing environment. The tricky part about digital and particularly with acquisitions is that the audience size has changed so dramatically depending on how the big platforms, Google or Meta decide to prioritize people's content and change their algorithm, so you could go out and buy something. Very few of these digital platforms have their own natural organic, go to their dot com traffic right, like they're getting their traffic from some other source or platform. I think read something in Buzzfeed's last conference call, when they were talking about their AD revenue came down significantly and why, and I think I remember the number one thing they pointed out was that the big platforms are prioritizing their own content, or their own verticals over third party, and it's reduced their ability to monetize with their content. So what does that mean for acquisitions? you go out and buy something that you think has whatever 10 million unique visitors, and 500 million page views and then six months later an algorithm has changed and that's been cut in half right. That happens, that's happened to us on a smaller scale but and so you've got to be really really really careful, when you look at digital acquisitions and when you look at something every year and we we're nosing around a public company this year, that ended up doing a deal somewhere else. So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that to scale it but it's. Yeah. It's tricky.

I'm happy that it's profitable right now and yes, youre right Theres ad.

Revenue pressures.

And so.

Yes digital is so tricky right. So right now you've got to add you got you got you got you got to add revenue pressures, but I think we've been doing decently.

And that slowing environment.

Alfred C. Liggins: The tricky part about digital and particularly with acquisitions is that the audience size has changed so dramatically depending on how the big platforms, Google or Meta decide to prioritize people's content and change their algorithm, so you could go out and buy something. Very few of these digital platforms have their own natural organic, go to their dot com traffic right, like they're getting their traffic from some other source or platform. I think read something in Buzzfeed's last conference call, when they were talking about their AD revenue came down significantly and why, and I think I remember the number one thing they pointed out was that the big platforms are prioritizing their own content, or their own verticals over third party, and it's reduced their ability to monetize with their content. So what does that mean for acquisitions? you go out and buy something that you think has whatever 10 million unique visitors, and 500 million page views and then six months later an algorithm has changed and that's been cut in half right. That happens, that's happened to us on a smaller scale but and so you've got to be really really really careful, when you look at digital acquisitions and when you look at something every year and we we're nosing around a public company this year, that ended up doing a deal somewhere else. So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that to scale it but it's. Yeah. It's tricky.

The tricky part about digital and particularly with acquisitions is that the.

The audience size has changed so dramatically depending on how the big platforms.

Google our meta beside the prioritize people's content.

Changed their algorithm so you could go out and buy something.

Alfred C. Liggins: Very few of these digital platforms have their own natural organic, go to their dot com traffic right, like they're getting their traffic from some other source or platform. I think read something in Buzzfeed's last conference call, when they were talking about their AD revenue came down significantly and why, and I think I remember the number one thing they pointed out was that the big platforms are prioritizing their own content, or their own verticals over third party, and it's reduced their ability to monetize with their content. So what does that mean for acquisitions? you go out and buy something that you think has whatever 10 million unique visitors, and 500 million page views and then six months later an algorithm has changed and that's been cut in half right. That happens, that's happened to us on a smaller scale but and so you've got to be really really really careful, when you look at digital acquisitions and when you look at something every year and we we're nosing around a public company this year, that ended up doing a deal somewhere else. So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that to scale it but it's. Yeah. It's tricky.

Alfred C. Liggins: Very few of these digital platforms have their own natural organic, go to their dot com traffic right, like they're getting their traffic from some other source or platform.

Very few of these digital platforms have their own natural organic go to their dot com traffic right like theyre getting their traffic from some other source our platform I think.

Alfred C. Liggins: I think read something in Buzzfeed's last conference call, when they were talking about their AD revenue came down significantly and why, and I think I remember the number one thing they pointed out was that the big platforms are prioritizing their own content, or their own verticals over third party, and it's reduced their ability to monetize with their content. So what does that mean for acquisitions? you go out and buy something that you think has whatever 10 million unique visitors, and 500 million page views and then six months later an algorithm has changed and that's been cut in half right. That happens, that's happened to us on a smaller scale but and so you've got to be really really really careful, when you look at digital acquisitions and when you look at something every year and we we're nosing around a public company this year, that ended up doing a deal somewhere else. So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that to scale it but it's. Yeah. It's tricky.

Alfred C. Liggins: I think read something in Buzzfeed's last conference call, when they were talking about their AD revenue came down significantly and why. And I think I remember the number one thing they pointed out was that the big platforms are prioritizing their own content, or their own verticals over third party, and it's reduced their ability to monetize with their content.

Alfred C. Liggins: I think read something in Buzzfeed's last conference call, when they were talking about their AD revenue came down significantly and why.

Read something in Buzzfeed.

Last conference call when they were talking about their AD revenue came down significantly and why and I think I remember the number one thing they pointed out was that.

Alfred C. Liggins: And I think I remember the number one thing they pointed out was that the big platforms are prioritizing their own content, or their own verticals over third party, and it's reduced their ability to monetize with their content.

The big platforms are prioritizing their own content.

Are their own verticals.

<unk> third party and its reduced their ability to monetize.

With their content. So what does that mean for acquisitions you go out and buy something that you think has whatever 10 million unique visitors and 500 million page views and then six months later and algorithms change there that's been cut in half right.

Alfred C. Liggins: So what does that mean for acquisitions? you go out and buy something that you think has whatever 10 million unique visitors, and 500 million page views and then six months later an algorithm has changed and that's been cut in half right. That happens, that's happened to us on a smaller scale but and so you've got to be really really really careful, when you look at digital acquisitions and when you look at something every year and we we're nosing around a public company this year, that ended up doing a deal somewhere else. So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that to scale it but it's. Yeah. It's tricky.

That happens that's happened to us on a smaller scale.

Alfred C. Liggins: That happens, that's happened to us on a smaller scale but and so you've got to be really really really careful, when you look at digital acquisitions and when you look at something every year and we we're nosing around a public company this year, that ended up doing a deal somewhere else. So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that to scale it but it's. Yeah. It's tricky.

But.

And so you've got to be really really really really careful when you look at digital acquisitions.

When you look at something every year.

<unk>.

And we we're nosing around a public company. This year that ended up doing a deal.

Yes.

Yes somewhere else.

So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that.

Alfred C. Liggins: So, yes, we want to figure out how to do that to scale it but it's. Yeah. It's tricky.

To scale it but it's.

Yeah.

It's tricky.

Right I understand. Thank you for that color. And lastly, and then operator, we're going to open it up and one more question.

Hal Steiner: Right I understand. Thank you for that color. And lastly,

Hal Steiner: Right I understand. Thank you for that color.

Thank you for that color.

Alfred C. Liggins: And lastly, and then operator, we're going to open it up and one more question after that. And lastly, a lot of these at least digital acquisitions, these guys don't make any money, so they want you to say, yes, they want, and remember I said earlier that we tend to be cash flow buyers right. So they want they want you to give them a value and they don't make money that's the problem, you know. Buzzfeed bought this company Complex, which was like when the top urban content publishers in the space, had a big brand for a long time, was doing $100 million dollars of revenue, they lost $11 million dollars and Buzzfeed paid $300 million Bucks for them. And we just can never do anything like that now.

and then operator, we're going to open it up and one more question.

And lastly, and then operator, we're going to open it up and one more question.

Hum.

And lastly, a lot of these at least digital acquisitions. These guys don't make any money. So they want they want you to say, yes, they want either and remember I said earlier that we tend to be cash flow buyers right. So they want they want you to give them a value and they don't make money at the problem you know Buzzfeed bought. This. This company complex, which was like. Yes. When the top urban. Content publishers. And the space has had a big brand for a long time was doing $100 million of revenue to a loss of $11 million and Buzzfeed pay 300 million Bucks for them.

So they want they want you to say, yes, they want either and remember I said earlier that we tend to be cash flow buyers right. So they want they want you to give them a value and they don't make money at the problem you know Buzzfeed bought.

Alfred C. Liggins: So they want they want you to give them a value and they don't make money that's the problem, you know. Buzzfeed bought this company Complex, which was like when the top urban content publishers in the space, had a big brand for a long time, was doing $100 million dollars of revenue, they lost $11 million dollars and Buzzfeed paid $300 million Bucks for them. And we just can never do anything like that now.

Alfred C. Liggins: So they want they want you to give them a value and they don't make money that's the problem, you know.

This.

This company complex, which was like.

Yes.

When the top urban.

Alfred C. Liggins: Buzzfeed bought this company Complex, which was like when the top urban content publishers in the space, had a big brand for a long time, was doing $100 million dollars of revenue, they lost $11 million dollars and Buzzfeed paid $300 million Bucks for them. And we just can never do anything like that now.

Content publishers.

And the space has had a big brand for a long time was doing $100 million of revenue to a loss of $11 million and Buzzfeed pay 300 million Bucks for them.

Yeah, and I guess like we just we just. We just can never do anything like that now. Yeah, No I understand if you mind, if I could just ask one before you switch. The last question I was just going to ask on the. But in terms of the indenture. You need to do make. And offer to repurchase the bonds. With the amount of excess proceeds, but I guess your your belief would be through doing debt buybacks and maybe any other sort of investments you'll be able to fulfill. I have no excess proceeds back extra excess proceeds left by the time. It is you'd have to make that repurchase offer is that correct. We don't know, but there's a number of things that we've invested in that count towards those investments that are just buy in. Radio assets right like our Houston transaction counts there are some programming investments that we make that bet. That count. So so so we're not sitting there right now with $137 million of Av. Investable basket that we got. That we got to deal with it something significantly less than that you know already. Already. As Peter said to me yesterday, we're not going to go out and make a stupid acquisition. Just so we don't have to offer. To buyback bonds at par, that's not going to happen. But to your point. We're probably at something close to. Yeah. $80 million of the $1 37 already like shelter, if you will or stuff that we invest in on a. On a regular basis. And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

Yeah, and I guess like we just we just. We just can never do anything like that now.

Alfred C. Liggins: And we just can never do anything like that now.

We just can never do anything like that now.

Hal Steiner: Yeah, No I understand. If you mind, if I could just ask one before you switch to the last question. I was just going to ask on the, in terms of the indenture, you needed to do make an offer to repurchase the bonds with the amount of excess proceeds, but I guess your belief would be, through doing debt buybacks and maybe any other sort of investments you'll be able to, you'll fulfill, you'll have no excess proceeds back, excess proceeds left by the time you'd have to make that repurchase offer is that correct? We don't know, but there's a number of things that we've invested in that count towards those investments that are just buy in. Radio assets right like our Houston transaction counts there are some programming investments that we make that bet. That count. So so so we're not sitting there right now with $137 million of Av. Investable basket that we got. That we got to deal with it something significantly less than that you know already. Already. As Peter said to me yesterday, we're not going to go out and make a stupid acquisition. Just so we don't have to offer. To buyback bonds at par, that's not going to happen. But to your point. We're probably at something close to. Yeah. $80 million of the $1 37 already like shelter, if you will or stuff that we invest in on a. On a regular basis. And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

Hal Steiner: Yeah, No I understand. If you mind, if I could just ask one before you switch to the last question.

Yeah, No I understand if you mind, if I could just ask one before you switch. The last question I was just going to ask on the.

Hal Steiner: If you mind, if I could just ask one before you switch to the last question. I was just going to ask on the, in terms of the indenture, you needed to do make an offer to repurchase the bonds with the amount of excess proceeds. But I guess your belief would be, through doing debt buybacks and maybe any other sort of investments you'll be able to, you'll fulfill, you'll have no excess proceeds back, excess proceeds left by the time you'd have to make that repurchase offer is that correct?

Hal Steiner: If you mind, if I could just ask one before you switch to the last question.

Hal Steiner: I was just going to ask on the, in terms of the indenture, you needed to do make an offer to repurchase the bonds with the amount of excess proceeds. But I guess your belief would be, through doing debt buybacks and maybe any other sort of investments you'll be able to, you'll fulfill, you'll have no excess proceeds back, excess proceeds left by the time you'd have to make that repurchase offer is that correct?

Hal Steiner: I was just going to ask on the, in terms of the indenture, you needed to do make an offer to repurchase the bonds with the amount of excess proceeds.

But in terms of the indenture.

You need to do make.

And offer to repurchase the bonds.

With the amount of excess proceeds, but I guess your your belief would be through doing debt buybacks and maybe any other sort of investments you'll be able to fulfill.

Hal Steiner: But I guess your belief would be, through doing debt buybacks and maybe any other sort of investments you'll be able to, you'll fulfill, you'll have no excess proceeds back, excess proceeds left by the time you'd have to make that repurchase offer is that correct?

I have no excess proceeds back extra excess proceeds left by the time. It is you'd have to make that repurchase offer is that correct.

We don't know, but there's a number of things that we've invested in that count towards those investments that are just buy in.

Alfred C. Liggins: We don't know, but there's a number of things that we've invested in that count towards those investments that are just buy-in radio assets right, like our Houston transaction counts, there are some programming investments that we make that count. So so we're not sitting there right now with $137 million dollars of investable baskets that we got to deal with, it's something significantly less than that you know already. But as Peter said to me yesterday, we're not going to go out and make a stupid acquisition just so we don't have to offer to buyback bonds at par, that's not going to happen. But to your point, we're probably at something close to, $80 million dollars of the $137 already, like sheltered if you will, through stuff that we invest in on a regular basis. And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

Radio assets right like our Houston transaction counts there are some programming investments that we make that bet.

That count.

So so so we're not sitting there right now with $137 million of Av.

Alfred C. Liggins: So so we're not sitting there right now with $137 million dollars of investable baskets that we got to deal with, it's something significantly less than that you know already. But as Peter said to me yesterday, we're not going to go out and make a stupid acquisition just so we don't have to offer to buyback bonds at par, that's not going to happen. But to your point, we're probably at something close to, $80 million dollars of the $137 already, like sheltered if you will, through stuff that we invest in on a regular basis. And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

Alfred C. Liggins: So so we're not sitting there right now with $137 million dollars of investable baskets that we got to deal with, it's something significantly less than that you know already.

Investable basket that we got.

That we got to deal with it something significantly less than that you know already.

Already.

As Peter said to me yesterday, we're not going to go out and make a stupid acquisition. Just so we don't have to offer.

Alfred C. Liggins: But as Peter said to me yesterday, we're not going to go out and make a stupid acquisition just so we don't have to offer to buyback bonds at par, that's not going to happen. But to your point, we're probably at something close to, $80 million dollars of the $137 already, like sheltered if you will, through stuff that we invest in on a regular basis. And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

Alfred C. Liggins: But as Peter said to me yesterday, we're not going to go out and make a stupid acquisition just so we don't have to offer to buyback bonds at par, that's not going to happen.

To buyback bonds at par, that's not going to happen.

But to your point.

We're probably at something close to.

Alfred C. Liggins: But to your point, we're probably at something close to, $80 million dollars of the $137 already, like sheltered if you will, through stuff that we invest in on a regular basis. And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

Yeah.

$80 million of the $1 37 already like shelter, if you will or stuff that we invest in on a.

On a regular basis.

Alfred C. Liggins: And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

And I don't know, what what's going to happen between now and April.

Hal Steiner: Thank you guys so much for the questions.

Operator: Thank you. And our last question here will come from Bradd Kern with [inaudible] Please go ahead.

Operator: And our last question here will come from our Bradford with bark breaker. Please go ahead.

Hi, Thanks for getting to me again, just so on the use of cash. Cash you brought in Churchill Downs as a partner would you be open to being sort of a. Our minority partner in another whether it's a. Another gaming endeavor or some others. D partner, where you're not like we're not in control of the investment that you are sort of either a capital solution provider and maybe there's even something strategic. How do you think about those type of opportunities yeah. Yeah, Yeah, we would look at something like that however, we are a bit spoiled because our MGM deal gave us like a.

Bradd Kern: Hi, Thanks for going with me again. Just so on the use of cash, so you brought in Churchill Downs as a partner, Would you be open to being sort of a minority partner in another, whether it's another gaming endeavor, or some other [inaudible] minority partner, where you're not like, where you're not in control of the investment, that you are sort of either a capital solution provider or maybe as even something strategic. How do you think about those type of opportunities?

Bradd Kern: Hi, Thanks for going with me again.

Bradd Kern: Just so on the use of cash, so you brought in Churchill Downs as a partner. Would you be open to being sort of a minority partner in another, whether it's another gaming endeavor, or some other [inaudible] minority partner, where you're not like, where you're not in control of the investment, that you are sort of either a capital solution provider or maybe as even something strategic. How do you think about those type of opportunities?

Bradd Kern: Just so on the use of cash, so you brought in Churchill Downs as a partner.

Cash you brought in Churchill Downs as a partner would you be open to being sort of a.

Bradd Kern: Would you be open to being sort of a minority partner in another, whether it's another gaming endeavor, or some other [inaudible] minority partner, where you're not like, where you're not in control of the investment, that you are sort of either a capital solution provider or maybe as even something strategic. How do you think about those type of opportunities?

Our minority partner in another whether it's a.

Another gaming endeavor or some others.

D partner, where you're not like we're not in control of the investment that you are sort of either a capital solution provider and maybe there's even something strategic.

Bradd Kern: How do you think about those type of opportunities?

How do you think about those type of opportunities yeah. Yeah, Yeah, we would look at something like that however, we are a bit spoiled because our MGM deal gave us like a.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, we would look at something like that, however, we are a bit spoiled because our MGM deal gave us like a cash return off the bat, off the top of gaming revenues. So that was one of those unique situations where we put money in and we got money out like you know kind of like the first year. And we look at one deal with a small public gaming company, they wanted us to them, that's like 20 or 25 million Bucks in it. But they had a subordinated under a whole bunch of stuff in, it was like really traditional equity investment and they were, it was, they were up-valuing it from what their value was and so you know, we didn't like and. So we are spoiled, so we would like you know, yes, we would look at being a minority investor, Ithink that would be one of those situations, where if we ended up making a real equity investment and we're sitting behind debt and then it's got to be paid down and there's no dividends or restricted payments going out to the equity for a significant period of time, where you'd want not a 20% return you'd want something much higher. But we've seen two investments like that. And we pass on above. Yes.

Alfred C. Liggins: Yeah, we would look at something like that, however, we are a bit spoiled because our MGM deal gave us like a cash return off the bat, off the top of gaming revenues.

Yes.

Our cash return off the bat off the top of gaming revenues. So that was one of those unique situations, where we put money in and we got money out like you know kind of like.

Alfred C. Liggins: So that was one of those unique situations where we put money in and we got money out like you know kind of like the first year. And we look at one deal with a small public gaming company, they wanted us to them, that's like 20 or 25 million Bucks in it. But they had a subordinated under a whole bunch of stuff in, it was like really traditional equity investment and they were, it was, they were up-valuing it from what their value was and so you know, we didn't like and. So we are spoiled, so we would like you know, yes, we would look at being a minority investor, Ithink that would be one of those situations, where if we ended up making a real equity investment and we're sitting behind debt and then it's got to be paid down and there's no dividends or restricted payments going out to the equity for a significant period of time, where you'd want not a 20% return you'd want something much higher. But we've seen two investments like that. And we pass on above. Yes.

Alfred C. Liggins: So that was one of those unique situations where we put money in and we got money out like you know kind of like the first year.

The first year.

And we look at one deal with.

Alfred C. Liggins: And we look at one deal with a small public gaming company, they wanted us to them, that's like 20 or 25 million Bucks in it. But they had a subordinated under a whole bunch of stuff in, it was like really traditional equity investment and they were, it was, they were up-valuing it from what their value was and so you know, we didn't like and. So we are spoiled, so we would like you know, yes, we would look at being a minority investor, Ithink that would be one of those situations, where if we ended up making a real equity investment and we're sitting behind debt and then it's got to be paid down and there's no dividends or restricted payments going out to the equity for a significant period of time, where you'd want not a 20% return you'd want something much higher. But we've seen two investments like that. And we pass on above. Yes.

<unk>.

Or a small public gaming company.

They wanted us to them, that's like 20 or 25 million Bucks in it.

But yes.

They had a subordinated under a whole bunch of stuff in it.

It was like really traditional equity investment at <unk>.

And they were it was they were valuing it from what they are their value was and so you know.

We didn't like it yeah and.

Alfred C. Liggins: So we are spoiled, so we would like you know, yes, we would look at being a minority investor, I think that would be one of those situations, where if we ended up making a real equity investment and we're sitting behind debt and then it's got to be paid down and there's no dividends or restricted payments going out to the equity for a significant period of time, where you'd want not a 20% return you'd want something much higher. But we've seen two investments like that. And we pass on above. Yes.

Alfred C. Liggins: So we are spoiled, so we would like you know, yes, we would look at being a minority investor. I think that would be one of those situations, where if we ended up making a real equity investment and we're sitting behind debt and then it's got to be paid down and there's no dividends or restricted payments going out to the equity for a significant period of time, where you'd want not a 20% return you'd want something much higher.

Alfred C. Liggins: So we are spoiled, so we would like you know, yes, we would look at being a minority investor.

So we are spoiled like you know so we would like you know, yes, we would look at being a minority investor.

I think that would be one of those situations, where if we ended up making a real equity investment and we're sitting behind that.

Alfred C. Liggins: I think that would be one of those situations, where if we ended up making a real equity investment and we're sitting behind debt and then it's got to be paid down and there's no dividends or restricted payments going out to the equity for a significant period of time, where you'd want not a 20% return you'd want something much higher.

And then it's got to be paid down and Theres no.

Dividends are restricted payments going out to the.

The equity for a significant period of time, where you'd want.

Not a 20% return you'd want something go.

Much higher.

But we've seen two investments like that.

Alfred C. Liggins: But we've seen two investments like that. And we pass on above. Yes.

And we pass on above.

Yes.

Bradd Kern: Okay. Appreciate it yeah, the discipline makes sense. Thanks, a lot thanks, Brent thanks, everyone.

Bradd Kern: Okay. Appreciate it yeah, the discipline makes sense.

Bradd Kern: Thanks, a lot, thanks Bradd, thanks, everyone, I appreciate the time.

Thanks, a lot thanks, Brent thanks, everyone.

At this time.

Operator: And that does conclude the conference for today. Thanks for your participation and for using AT&T teleconference. You may now disconnect.

Okay.

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