Q1 2024 Beazer Homes USA Inc Earnings Call

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Beazer.

Operator: Good afternoon, and welcome to the Beazer..., first quarter. www.beazerhomes.com All right. Thank you.

Earnings Conference call for the first quarter.

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Today's call is being recorded and a replay.

On the company's website.

Good day.

Powerpoint slides intended to accompany this call are available in the investor.

Section of the company.

Website.

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At this point I will turn the call over to David Goldberg Senior Vice President.

Sure.

Operator: Good afternoon, and welcome to the Beazer Homes conference call discussing our results for the first quarter of fiscal 2024. Before we begin, you should be aware that during this call, we will be making four booking statements. Such statements involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors described in our SEC filings, which may cause actual results to differ materially from our projections. Any forward-looking statement speaks only as of the date the statement is made. We do not undertake any obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. New factors emerge from time to time, and it is simply not possible to predict all such factors.

Thank you good afternoon, and welcome to the Beazer homes conference call discussing our results for the first quarter of fiscal 2024.

Before we begin you should be aware that during this call we will be making forward looking statements.

Such statements involve known and unknown risks uncertainties and other factors described in our SEC filings, which may cause actual results to differ materially from our projections.

Any forward looking statement speaks only as the date the statement is made.

We do not undertake any obligation to update or revise any forward looking statements, whether as a result of new information future events or otherwise new factors emerge from time to time and it is simply not possible to predict all such factors.

Operator: Joining me today is Allan Merrill, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. On our call today, he will discuss highlights from our first quarter. The current environment for new home sales, our outlook for the balance of the year, and finish with an update on the progress we're making toward our multi-year goal. I'll then provide details on our first quarter results. Our second quarter and full year expectations, a look at our Steady Book Value Accretion and Maturity Schedule, and end with a review of our Land Activity and Future Community Council. We will conclude with a wrap-up by Alan. After our prepared remarks, we will take questions in the time remaining. I will now turn the call over to Alan.

Joining me today is Allan Merrill, our chairman and Chief Executive Officer.

On our call today I'll discuss highlights from our first quarter.

Current environment for new home sales are.

Our outlook for the balance of the year and finish with an update on the progress, we're making towards our multiyear goals.

I'll then provide details on our first quarter results.

Our second quarter and full year expectations I look at our steady book value accretion and maturity schedule and end with a review of our land activity and future community count.

We will conclude with a wrap up by Allan after our prepared remarks, we will take questions in the time remaining I will now turn the call over to Alan.

Allan P. Merrill: Thank you, Dave, and thank you for joining us on our call this afternoon. Against a challenging affordability backdrop, we delivered another solidly profitable quarter with new home orders substantially ahead of the expectations we outlined in mid-November. At that time, mortgage rates had begun to decline, but it was too soon for us to know whether the decline would be substantial enough or durable enough to improve sales paces. With a quarter now in the rearview mirror, I'm pleased to report that we experienced a meaningful improvement in demand, particularly in December, leaving us optimistic for the upcoming spring selling season. Here are a few of the highlights from our first quarter.

Thank you, Dave and thank you for joining us on our call. This afternoon.

Against the challenging affordability backdrop, we delivered another solidly profitable quarter.

New home orders substantially ahead of the expectations, we outlined in mid November.

At that time mortgage rates have begun to decline, but it was too soon for us to know whether the decline would be substantial enough or durable enough to improve sales paces.

With a quarter now in the rearview mirror I am pleased to report that we experienced a meaningful improvement in demand, particularly in December.

This optimistic for the upcoming spring selling season.

Here are a few of the highlights from our first quarter.

Allan P. Merrill: Orders were up over 70 percent against an easy comp in the prior year as we generated a 50 percent improvement in sales pace to two sales per community per month. Our community count expanded nicely, up 14% year over year. Gross margins were 22.9 percent, driven largely by home sales made in prior quarters when mortgage rates were lower. And earnings were $0.70 per share, driving book value over $36. As noted in our press release today, first quarter profitability was negatively impacted by a widely publicized cybersecurity incident at one of our title and settlement service providers at the end of December. Although we were able to adjust closing arrangements for most buyers scheduled that week, we delayed about 40 closings until early January, shifting a modest amount of revenue and profitability into our second quarter. Well, the situation was very frustrating for these buyers. However, the incident is fully resolved and won't impact our full year results.

Orders were up over 70% against an easy comp in the prior year as we generated a 50% improvement in sales pace to two sales per community per month.

Our community count expanded nicely up 14% year over year.

Gross margins were 22, 9% driven largely by home sales made in prior quarters when mortgage rates were lower.

Earnings were <unk> 70 per share driving book value over $36.

As noted in our press release today first quarter profitability was negatively impacted by a widely publicized cyber security incident.

Its occurred at one of our title and settlement service providers at the end of December.

Although we were able to adjust closing arrangements for most buyers scheduled that week, we delayed about 40 closings until early January shifting a modest amount of revenue and profitability into our second quarter.

While the situation was very frustrating for these buyers. The incident is fully resolved and won't impact our full year results.

The macro environment for new home sales remains constructive but challenging.

Allan P. Merrill: The macro environment for new home sales remains constructive, but challenging. Most parts of the economy are in reasonably good shape, with job and wage growth providing support for homebuyer demand, and the supply of both new and used homes remains at historically low levels. Those are the constructive parts. Affordability, or more precisely, the lack of it, is the challenging part.

Most parts of the economy are in reasonably good shape with job and wage growth providing support for home buyer demand.

And the supply of both new and used homes remains at historically low levels those are the constructive parts.

Affordability or more precisely the lack of it is the challenging part.

Allan P. Merrill: When rates got to 8% in the fall, many potential buyers either couldn't or wouldn't commit to home ownership. But, as we saw in December, demand responded quite strongly to declining rates. Anticipating demand for new homes is always challenging because it is never a function of just one variable.

When rates got to 8% in the fall many potential buyers either couldn't or wouldn't commit to homeownership.

As we saw in December demand responded quite strongly to declining rates.

Anticipating demand for new homes is always challenging because it is never a function of just one variable.

Allan P. Merrill: But for now, the biggest factor remains affordability, and more specifically, mortgage rates. Our operating strategy is focused on maximizing returns at the community level, taking into account buyer profiles and local competitive dynamics. Given the breadth of our markets and products, this results in a fairly balanced mix of pace and margin ambition, which obviously evolves with market conditions, including mortgage rates. With that said, here's how we're thinking about our results for the balance of the year. Our base case is that mortgage rates stay in the range where they are now, in the upper six. In this scenario, we think demand is likely to remain healthy.

But for now the biggest factor remains affordability and more specifically mortgage rates.

Yeah.

Our operating strategy is focused on maximizing returns at the community level, taking into account buyer profiles and local competitive dynamics.

Given the breadth of our markets and products. This results in a fairly balanced mix of pace and margin ambition, which obviously evolves with market conditions, including mortgage rates.

With that said, here's how we're thinking about our results for the balance of the year.

Our base case is that mortgage rates stay in the range, where they are now in the upper sixes.

In this scenario, we think demand is likely to remain healthy.

Allan P. Merrill: To maximize returns, we're targeting sales paces that are quite good, but perhaps a bit lower than our historical level. On the margin side, we'd expect some pickup toward the end of the year as improved cycle times allow us to deliver more homes with lower incentives. If rates move down into the fives, we'd expect a fairly robust increase in demand, leading to higher sales paces and even better opportunities to drive higher margins. The downside case would be if rates trend back toward 8%.

To maximize returns we're targeting sales paces that are quite good, but perhaps a bit lower than our historical levels on the margin side would you expect some pickup towards the end of the year as improved cycle times allow us to deliver more homes with lower incentives.

If rates move down into the fives, we'd expect a fairly robust increase in demand leading to higher sales paces and even better opportunities to drive higher margins.

The downside case would be if rates trend back toward 8%.

Allan P. Merrill: In that case, we'd expect sluggish sales paces accompanied by a return of the incentives we offered in the fall. Whichever scenario unfolds, we've got the liquidity and land position to manage through it, and we expect to be able to generate a double-digit return on equity for the fiscal year while moving toward each of the multi-year goals we introduced last year. As a reminder, these goals target growth, balance sheet strength, and a differentiated product strategy. As it relates to our goal to have more than 200 active communities by the end of Fiscal 26, we closed the quarter with 136 active communities, up 14% versus the prior year.

In that case, we would expect sluggish sales paces accompanied by a return to the incentives we offered in the fall.

Whichever scenario unfolds, we've got the liquidity and land position to manage through it and we expect to be able to generate a double digit return on equity for the fiscal year, while moving toward each of the multiyear goals, we introduced last year.

As a reminder.

These goals target growth back.

Balance sheet strength, and a differentiated product strategy.

As it relates to our goal to have more than 200 active communities by the end of fiscal 'twenty six we closed the quarter with 136 active communities up 14% versus the prior year.

Allan P. Merrill: By the end of the year, we expect that number to be above 155, or about 15% annual growth, and to be positioned for similar growth in both FY25 and 26. In support of these efforts, our land spend in the quarter was almost $200 million, up 73% year over year, with a large portion invested in the development activities necessary to activate new communities, as it relates to our balance sheet goal of having a net debt to net cap ratio below 30% by the end of fiscal 26. We completed the quarter with a ratio of 44%, down 4 points versus the prior year.

By the end of the year, we expect that number to be about 155 or about 15% annual growth and to be positioned for similar growth in both FY 'twenty five and 'twenty six.

In support of these efforts our land spend in the quarter was almost $200 million up 73% year over year with a large portion invested in the development activities necessary to activate new communities.

As it relates to our balance sheet goal of having a net debt to net cap ratio below 30% by the end of fiscal 'twenty six we completed the quarter with a ratio at 44% down four points versus the prior year.

Allan P. Merrill: Given our expectations for sales volume and profitability over the balance of the year, we expect this ratio to be in the low 30s at year end. And finally, as it relates to our goal to have 100% of our starts zero energy ready by the end of calendar 25, we made huge progress in the first quarter, with more than half our starts meeting the zero energy ready standard. By year end, this will be above 75% as we introduce our energy efficient homes into many more communities. The idea I hope investors will take away from this call is that we are focused on generating meaningful profitability and returns this year, while also making significant strides toward our multi-year goals. With that, I'll turn the call over to Dave.

Given our expectations for sales volume and profitability over the balance of the year. We expect this ratio to be in the low <unk> at year end.

And finally as it relates to our goal to have 100% of our starts zero energy ready by the end of calendar 'twenty five we made huge progress in the first quarter with more than half of our starts meeting the zero energy ready standard by year end this will be above 75% as we introduce our energy efficient homes into many more <unk>.

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The idea I hope investors will take away from this call is that we are focused on generating meaningful profitability and returns. This year, while also making significant strides towards our multiyear goals with that ill turn the call over to Dave. Thanks Alan.

For the first quarter of fiscal year 2024, new homeowners were 823 up 71% compared to the prior year.

Operator: For the first quarter of fiscal year 2024, new homeowners were 823, up 71% compared to the prior year. Our average sales pace was about in line with historical levels for our fiscal first quarter. We closed 743 homes, generating home building revenue of $381 million, with an average sales price of about $513,000. Gross margin, including amortized interest, impairments, and abandonments, was 22.9%.

Our average sales pace was about in line with historical levels for our fiscal first quarter.

We closed 743 homes generating homebuilding revenue of $381 million with an average sales price of about $513000.

Gross margin, excluding amortized interest impairments and abandonments was 22, 9%.

Operator: SG&A dollars were up marginally versus the prior year, better than our expectations. Adjusted EBITDA was $38 million. If the cyber event at the third-party service provider hadn't occurred, Adjusted E-Without would have exceeded $40 million. Interest amortized as a percentage of home building revenue was 2.9%. Our GAAP tax expense was about $1 million for an effective tax rate of 5.2%.

SG&A dollars were up marginally versus the prior year better than our expectations.

Adjusted EBITDA was $38 million, if the cyber event at a third party service provider hadn't occurred adjusted EBITDA would've exceeded $40 million.

Interest amortized as a percentage of homebuilding revenue was two 9%.

Our GAAP tax expense was about $1 million for an effective tax rate of five 2%.

Operator: Our tax rate was below our expectation, primarily related to discrete tax benefits in the quarter. Net income was $21.7 million, or $0.70 per share. Our second quarter expectations are derived from the base case scenario that Alan described, where mortgage rates stay about where they are now, and the economic environment remains supportive. With this backdrop... To maximize returns, we're targeting a sales pace around 3 per community per month and an ending community count of 145. We expect to close around 1,100 homes.

Our tax rate was below our expectation primarily related to discrete tax benefits in the quarter.

Net income was $21 7 million or <unk> 70 per share.

Our second quarter expectations are derived from the base case scenario that Alan described where mortgage rates stay about where they are now and the economic environment remains supportive.

With this backdrop.

Yes.

To maximize returns we're targeting a sales pace around three per community per month, and an ending community count of $1 45.

We expect to close around the 100 homes.

Operator: Our ASP should be roughly $515,000. We are projecting adjusted home building gross margin of approximately 21 percent as the majority of the homes we expect to close in the second quarter went under contract when mortgage rates and incentives were substantially higher. SG&A as a percentage of total revenue should be approximately 12%. We expect this to result in adjusted EBITDA above $50 million.

Our ASP should be roughly $515000.

We are projecting adjusted homebuilding gross margin to be approximately 21% as the majority of the homes, we expect to close in the second quarter went under contract when mortgage rates and incentives were substantially higher.

SG&A as a percentage of total revenue should be approximately 12%.

We expect this to result in adjusted EBITDA above $50 million.

Operator: Interest amortized as a percentage of home building revenue should be in the low three, and our effective tax rate should be approximately 11% as we continue to benefit from the energy efficiency tax credit. This should lead to diluted earnings per share around $0.90.

Interest amortized as a percentage of homebuilding revenue should be in the low threes and our effective tax rate should be approximately 11% as we continue to benefit from energy efficiency tax credits.

This should lead to diluted earnings per share around 90.

Operator: Turning to our full year, we expect more than 4,700 closings, reflecting at least 10% annual growth and an ASP of about $510,000. Given our margin expectations for the second quarter, our first half gross margin should be between 21.5% and 22%. We think that's also representative of where we'll be for the full fiscal year. We anticipate margins to recover over the back half of the year as the homes with the highest incentives will have been delivered in the second and third quarters. This would lead to EBITDA in the range of $260 million to $280 million, and our diluted earnings per share would be at least $4.50 based on an effective tax rate of 15%. At this level, we'll generate double-digit returns this year and position the business for significant growth in Fiscal 25 and beyond. Achieving our target for double-digit returns would lead to a book value per share of $40 or higher by the end of the fiscal year.

Turning to our full year, we expect more than 4700 closings, reflecting at least 10% annual growth at an ASP of about $510000.

Given our margin expectations for the second quarter or first half gross margin should be between 21, five and 22%. We think Thats also representative of where we'll be for the full fiscal year.

We anticipate margins to recover over the back half of the year as the homes with a highest incentives will have been delivered in the second and third quarter.

This would lead to EBITDA in the range of $260 million to $280 million and our diluted earnings per share would be at least $4 50.

Based on an effective tax rate of 15%.

At this level will generate double digit returns this year this year and position the business for significant growth in fiscal 'twenty five and beyond.

Achieving our target for double digit returns would lead to a book value per share of <unk> $40 or higher by the end of the fiscal year.

Operator: The chart on slide 14 shows the progress we've made thus far in growing our stockholders' equity, having more than doubled our book value since fiscal year 2020. And at the same time, our DTA has become a very small percentage of our book value. As it relates to our balance sheet, we ended the quarter with $404 million of liquidity. Our net debt to CAP was 43.7%, and our net debt to EBITDA was 3.3 times. We ended the first quarter with about $980 million in total debt.

The chart on slide 14 shows the progress we've made thus far and growing our stockholders' equity having more than doubled our book value since fiscal year 2020.

At the same time, our DTA has become a very small percentage of our book value.

As it relates to our balance sheet, we ended the quarter with $404 million of liquidity.

Our net debt to cap was 43, 7% and our net debt to EBITDA was three three times.

We ended the first quarter with about $980 million of total debt.

As you can see on slide 16 over the last few quarters, we've been spending more on both land acquisition and development as we invest in our community count growth, we expect that to continue leading the land spend for the full year of around $750 million.

Operator: As you can see on slide 16... Over the last few quarters, we've been spending more on both land acquisition and development as we invest in our community count growth. We expect that to continue, leading to a land spend for the full year of around $750 million. While we're increasing our spending to fuel growth, we're doing so while focusing on balancing efficiency. For example, about 53% of our lots were held under option at the end of the quarter. We expect to maintain our option percentage around this level even as we increase our spend. This will allow us to drive attractive returns even as we grow our community count and close down. With that, I'll turn the call back over to Alan.

While we are increasing our spending to fuel growth, we're doing so while focusing on balance sheet efficiency efficiency about 53% of our lots were held at our option at the end of the quarter, we expect to maintain our option percentage around this level, even as we increase our spend this will allow us to drive attractive returns.

As we grow our community count and closings with that I'll turn the call back over to Alan Thank you Dave.

Allan P. Merrill: We're pleased with the results we generated in the first quarter. We adapted to a challenging operating environment and delivered solid profitability, higher new home orders, and a growing community count. These results, together with a favorable outlook for the spring selling season, have us positioned to deliver strong full-year results, highlighted by a double-digit return on equity and even more community count growth. Looking further out, it should be very clear that we are making steady and significant progress on the multi-year goals we established last year.

We're pleased with the results we generated in the first quarter, we adapted to a challenging operating environment and delivered solid profitability higher new home orders and a growing community count.

These results together with a favorable outlook for the spring selling season have us positioned to deliver strong full year results highlighted by a double digit return on equity and even more community count growth.

Looking further out it should be very clear that we are making steady and significant progress on the multi year goals, we established last year.

Allan P. Merrill: The achievement of these goals will represent a near doubling in the size of our company, the best balance sheet in our history, and an extraordinary level of differentiation in the homes we build. We believe that's a formula for creating a lot of shareholder value in the years ahead. Finally, I'd like to acknowledge my colleagues here at Beazer. We have a truly exceptional team, all of whom are committed to creating value for customers, partners, shareholders, and each other. I could not be more proud to represent them.

The achievement of these goals will represent a near doubling in the size of our company the best balance sheet in our history and an extraordinary level of differentiation and the homes we build.

We believe that's a formula for creating a lot of shareholder value in the years ahead.

Finally, I'd like to acknowledge my colleagues here at visa, we are a truly exceptional team all of whom are committed to creating value for customers partners shareholders and each other.

Could not be more proud to represent them.

Operator: With that, I'll turn the call over to the operator to take us into Q&A. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1. To withdraw your question, press star- Again.

With that I will turn the call over to the operator to take us into Q&A.

Thank you we will now begin the question and answer session.

Cask a question. Please press star one on mute your phones and record your name clearly if you need to withdraw your question Press Star Q again to ask a question. Please press star one it will take a few moments for questions to come through please standby.

Our first question will come from Jesse Leatherman with Zelman <unk> Associates. Your line is open.

Allan P. Merrill: Our first question will come from Jesse Leatherman with Zellman & Associates. Your line is open. Hey, congrats on the strong results and thanks for taking my questions. Sure. The first question is, it seems like, you know, fiscal 2Q gross margin seems like it's likely to be the low watermark for the year, which is great. Can you talk about how your use of incentives shifted during the first quarter, and if any changes have been made yet in the second quarter, and any quantification you can provide as to, you know, maybe a percentage of the sales price, anything along those lines would be helpful. Sure. So it's Alan.

Hey, congrats on the strong results and thanks for taking my questions sure.

The first question is it seems like.

<unk> fiscal <unk> gross margin seems looks likely to be the low watermark for the year, which is great can you talk about how your use of incentives shifted during the first quarter and if any changes have been made yet in the second quarter and any quantification you can provide as to maybe percentage of the sales price.

Anything along those lines would be helpful. Thanks.

Sure.

Allan P. Merrill: Over the course of the first quarter, so I mean, let's just make sure that we ground that we're talking October, November, and December. It was tough to find the market in October and early November. We were working on temporary buydowns and permanent buydowns, but what we really found was base prices made a difference. And as rates started to come down, we saw more of a shift into permanent buydowns from temporary buydowns, but that was really the mix that we were playing with. Of course, across 130 odd communities, the equation is a little bit different in each community, but I would tell you that base price and permanent buydowns would have been the principal changes that we made.

So it's Alan.

Over the course of the first quarter. So I mean, let's just make sure that we ground that we're talking October November and December it was tough to find the market in October and early November we were working on temporary buy downs permanent buy downs, but what we really found was based prices made a difference and as rates started to come.

Down.

We saw more of a shift into permanent buy downs from the temporary buy downs, but that was really the mix that we were playing with.

Of course across 130 odd communities. The equation is a little bit different in each community, but I would tell you that base price and permanent buy downs would have been the principal.

Changes that we made as we rolled into January we definitely saw an ability to reduce the dollar value associated with those buy downs, because we were buying to similar rates, but from a lower start from a lower starting point.

Operator: As we rolled into January, we definitely saw an ability to reduce the dollar value associated with those buydowns because we were buying at similar rates, but from a lower starting point. And we've been able to claw back bits and pieces on the base price just in the last three or four weeks. So as we think about the year, we're not expecting a dramatic improvement in that price and incentive mix, but the homes we've sold in the last 30 days or so have a better mix of price and incentives than the homes we were selling in October, November, and the early part of December. Does that kind give you a sense of what we were doing? Yeah, thanks Alan, that's very helpful.

And we've been able to claw back bits and pieces on base price just in the last three or four weeks. So as we think about the year, we're not expecting dramatic improvement in that price incentive mix, but the homes. We sold in the last 30 days or so have a better mix of price and incentives.

And the homes, we were selling in October November and the early part of December.

Is that kind of give you a sense of what we were doing.

Yeah. Thanks, Alan that's very helpful.

Operator: My next question is on cash flow. It looks like you used about $230 million in cash flow. I know you're pretty dedicated to continuing to develop land and acquire some new land as well. Can you talk about your cash flow expectations for the remainder of the year? Yeah, you know, look, Jesse, I think we talked about a little bit in the prepared remarks. We spent about $200 million on land in the quarter. Land is still the primary use of our cash flow that we're generating for the business. And as we're running land through the cost of goods sold, it's still predominantly focused on land for investment. So, we are doing development work, as Alan kind of mentioned in the script, looking at developing, spending money on land development, and activating new communities and turning that capital. So, land is still our priority in terms of our incremental cash flow generation. And we did give guidance for the full-year land spend of $750 million. Yeah, but that's all right.

My next question's on cash flow it looks like you used about $230 million of cash flow.

You are pretty dedicated to continuing to develop land in and acquire some new land as well can you talk about your cash flow expectations for the remainder of the year.

Yes look at Chelsea I think we talked about a little bit in the prepared remarks, we spent about $200 million on land in the quarter land is still the primary use of our cash flow that we're generating the business and as we're running land to a cost of goods sold its still predominantly focus on land for investment.

So we are doing development work as Alan mentioned in the script looking at developing and spending money on land development and activating new communities and turning that capital. So land still our priority in terms of our incremental cash flow generation and we did give the guidance for the full year land spend of $750 million.

Yes.

That's all right. It's also important let's not lose context of of net debt to net cap. We expect net debt to net cap will be in the low <unk> by the end of the year. So we generate more cash in the fourth quarter, we use more cash in the first second and third quarter relative to production and land spending but over the course of the year.

Allan P. Merrill: It's also important to keep the context of net debt to net cap. We expect net debt to net cap will be in the low 30s by the end of the year. So, you know, we generate more cash in the fourth quarter; we use more cash in the first, second, and third quarters, relative to production and land spending. But over the course of the year, we're going to be able to grow the land position and de-lever just within the 12 months of the fiscal year. Awesome, that's helpful. And then one last quick one that's somewhat similar.

We're going to be able to grow the land position and delever.

Within the 12 months of the fiscal year.

Awesome. That's helpful. And then one last quick one is somewhat similar.

Allan P. Merrill: Are you looking at any market expansion, you know, as you're looking at in the land market, or is it more so, you know, your current footprint? Yeah, one of the things I'm really proud of, and you know we pivoted to a growth mindset because we got our balance sheet in order about two years ago, is that we've been able to chart a really aggressive growth strategy on a multi-year basis, very organically in our existing footprint, largely serving the same buyers and building the same types of homes. So, you know, while there are always risks associated with growth, I feel pretty good about the fact that we know these markets, we know these sub-markets, we know these buyer profiles, and we've built these homes. So I guess a different way of answering it: we're not looking at geographic expansion as a lever to achieve our growth ambitions. Very helpful. I appreciate all the color.

In any market expansion.

Yeah, as you're looking at in the land market or is it more so.

Your current footprint.

And one of the things I'm really proud of and we pivoted to a growth mindset, because we got our balance sheet in order about two years ago is that we've been able to chart, a really aggressive growth strategy on a multiyear basis very organically in our existing footprint largely serving the same buyers and building the.

Same types of homes so.

While there are always risks associated with growth I feel pretty good about the fact that we know these markets. We know the Submarkets. We know these buyer profiles. We built these homes. So I guess a different way of answering is we're not looking at geographic expansion as a as a lever to achieve our growth ambitions.

Very helpful. I appreciate all the color.

Operator: Thank you, Jesse. Thank you. Our next question comes from Julio Romero with Sidati.

Thank you Jesse.

Thank you. Our next question comes from Julio Romero with Sidoti Your line is open.

Operator: Your line is open. Thanks. Hey, good afternoon.

Thanks, Hey, good afternoon, I appreciate you guys kind of lining out the base.

Allan P. Merrill: I appreciate you guys kind of lining out the base bull and bear case for how different rates can affect the year. Can you maybe talk a little bit about how your sales mix might be affected in terms of younger versus older buyers and higher versus lower end features as it relates to those cases you outlined? So I think the biggest impact is that in a very high-rate environment, we will sell more specs. The thing that we've seen over the last year and a half or two during this tightening cycle is that when someone has a shelter need, a desire, and a capability, they don't want to wait six or eight months for a home. So the characteristic that I think I'd be most confident in predicting in kind of a higher-rate environment as we see a mix. It's a little trickier to cut that across demographics, you know, whether it's age or, or, you know, other socio-demographic characteristics.

Bull and bear case for how kind of rates can affect the year can you maybe talk a little bit about how your sales mix might be affected in terms of younger versus older buyers and higher versus lower end features as it relates to those.

Cases, you outlined.

So I think the biggest impact is in a very high rate environment, we will sell more specs.

The thing that we've seen over the last year and a half or two during this tightening cycle is that when someone has a shelter need a desire and a capability. They don't want to wait six or eight months for a home. So the characteristic that I think I'd be most confident in predicting and kind of at a higher rate environment as we see a mix.

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It's a little trickier to cut that across demographics, whether it's age or or.

Other socio characteristics our buyers are not principally the price first buyer there are opportunities to buy single family homes further out at lower prices, that's not really our market. So if that <unk>.

Allan P. Merrill: Our buyers are not principally the price first buyer. There are opportunities to buy single-family homes further out at lower prices. That's not really our market. So that buyer in a high-rate environment is pretty challenged and probably has an accentuated need for specs. When I look at our buyers, there are a good number of first-time buyers, but they're patient first-time buyers. They've waited to buy the home that they wanted, that was the size they wanted, and had the features that they wanted as their first home. We have an awful lot of age-targeted, age-qualified, and otherwise empty-nester buyers. I happen to love those buyers because that's a sophisticated buyer. They know a great home.

Fire in a high rate environment is pretty challenged.

And probably has an accentuated need for specs when I look at our buyers.

There are a good number of first time buyers, but their patient first time buyers they waited to buy the home that they wanted that was the size. They want it had the features that they want it as their first home we have an awful lot of age targeted age qualified and otherwise empty nester buyers I happen to love those buyers because that's a sophisticated buyer they know a great help.

Allan P. Merrill: They know that some of the things that we're doing, other people aren't doing, and they appreciate that. Though, I think I would think about the macro environment more affecting the spec-to-be-built mix than the buyer profile. Their buyer profile is pretty well described by their locations and our product. Okay, that's very helpful there.

They know that some of the things that we're doing other people aren't doing and they appreciate that so I think I would think about the macro environment more affecting the spec to be built mix than the buyer profile is our buyer profiles pretty well described by our locations and our product.

Got it that's very helpful. There and then last quarter, you spoke about having some discretion for growth and the ability to.

Allan P. Merrill: And then last quarter, you spoke about having some discretion for growth and the ability to slow things down if rates headed north again. It sounds like the possibility of you guys doing that is lower now versus maybe three months ago. I don't know if that's fair at all.

Slow things up if rates headed north again, it sounds like the possibility of you guys doing that is is lower now versus maybe three months ago.

No Thats fair at all.

Allan P. Merrill: Yeah, look, I think we have optionality. There's an awful lot of what we can do or plan to do that if market conditions change, you know. I use the analogy, and it's probably not a great one, of a meteor strike. Like, if there's a meteor strike, we're going to have to adjust behavior. And that would relate to growth as well. But it is clearly the case that if you just think where we were in mid-November, rates had just started to roll off that 8%, and if things stayed right at that level, we might have eased up a bit. But what we saw instead was rates settled down, and demand was strong. I was glad that we hadn't made any significant shifts in our growth strategy.

Look I think.

We have optionality. There is no. There is an awful lot of what we can do we're planning to do that if market conditions change.

Z.

Analogy and it's probably not a great one of the Meteor strike like if theres, a meteor strike, we're going to we're going to adjust behavior.

And that would relate to growth as well, but it is clearly the case that if you just think where we were in mid November rates. It just started to roll off that 8% and if things stayed right at that level, we might have eased up a bit but what we saw instead was rates settle down demand was strong I was glad that we hadn't made any significant shifts in our <unk>.

Growth strategy, and we remain well positioned for that 200, plus community count a couple of years from now with just steady double digit growth, but I don't want anyone to think we're or so hell bent for leather on that growth trajectory that if conditions changed in a way that we wouldnt, we wouldnt reconsider obviously, we would work store.

Allan P. Merrill: And we remain well-positioned for that 200-plus community count a couple of years from now with just steady double-digit growth. But I don't want anyone to think we're so hell-bent on weathering that growth trajectory that if conditions changed in a way that we wouldn't reconsider. Obviously, we would.

Allan P. Merrill: We're stewards of capital. And if we needed to hoard some cash or change the trajectory of growth, we would. But I think we've weathered some fairly significant interest rate movements in the wrong direction, not counting on them moving in the right direction. But in this environment, I feel pretty good about the growth trajectory that we're on. I appreciate the color. I'll pass it on. Thanks again.

<unk> of capital and if we needed to hoard, some cash or change the trajectory of growth we would.

But I think we've weathered some some fairly significant interest rate movements in the wrong direction not counting on them moving in the right direction, but in this environment I feel pretty good about the growth trajectory that we're on.

Appreciate the color I'll pass it on thanks again, thanks, Paul Yeah. Thanks Julia.

Thank you next we will hear from Alex Rygiel with B Riley you May proceed.

Operator: Thank you. Next, we will hear from Alex Rygiel with B Riley. You may proceed. Thank you very much, and nice quarter, gentlemen.

Thank you very much and nice quarter gentlemen.

Allan P. Merrill: Heading into the December quarter, you thought there could be some potential competitors, heavily discounting, and you didn't really kind of want to get into that. Can you talk to us a little bit about how that fourth quarter kind of ended, ended up playing out for you?

Heading into the December quarter, you thought there could be some potential competitors.

Heavily discounting and you didn't really kind of want to get into that can you talk to us a little bit about how that fourth quarter kind of ended.

Ended up playing out for you.

Allan P. Merrill: Yeah, I mean, look, there are a number of builders whose fiscal year ends are not in September when ours is, and they are after that. And I mean, as long as I've been in this business, there has tended to be some pressure to hit volume numbers, both sales and closings, in those companies. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Yes, I mean look there are there are a number of builders, whose fiscal year ends are not in September when ours is that or after that and I mean as long as I've been in this business. There has tended to be some pressure to hit volume numbers, both sales and closing in those companies and there is nothing wrong with that I'm not being critical of that.

Allan P. Merrill: I'm not being critical of that. It's, it's, it's kind of part of our industry's seasonality. And we anticipated that that would be the case. And it was.

It's kind of part of our industry seasonality and we anticipated that that would be the case and it was the case in November and December.

Allan P. Merrill: In November and December, there were a lot of opportunities for folks that wanted quick move-in homes to take advantage of some pretty good discounts. We are not a spec first builder, as you know, and so in a number of places, we weren't positioned to really compete. You know, that was a contest we weren't entered in.

There were a lot of opportunities for folks that wanted quick move in homes.

Take advantage of some pretty good discounts, we are not a spec first builder as you know and so in a number of places we weren't positioned to really compete.

As a contest we werent entered in.

Allan P. Merrill: So it kind of played out the way we expected. The thing we always talk to our team about is if we're in an environment, a time or an interest rate environment or a combination of things, where there is in a in a sub market, a big demand for a spec, and we don't have a spec, and we're not going to have a spec, that's a 30 or 45 day close for that buyer, we've got to be really disciplined about not trying to create an inducement for a to be built that six or seven months out, that really structurally revalues our community. Right?

So.

Kind of played out the way we expected.

The thing we always talk to our team about is if we're in an environment of time or an interest rate environment or a combination of things where there is in a in a sub market a big demand for a spec and we don't have I expect and we're not going to have a spec. It's a 30 or 45 day closed for that buyer, we've got to be really disciplined about not.

Trying to create an inducement for a to be built that six or seven months out that really structurally re values our community.

Alright.

Allan P. Merrill: You can't meet that particular need, and that's okay. It turns out there are a lot of buyers out there. They don't all have to be ours. And I think that's just a judgment call.

You can't meet that particular need and thats. Okay. It turns out there are a lot of buyers out there. They don't all have to be ours, and I think thats just its a.

Call It and intelligence that we have to have in the business. There are other times, where the buyer is a little less certain to be built or.

Allan P. Merrill: It's an intelligence that we have to have in the business. There are other times where the buyer is a little less certain that the home will be built or a SPAC, and their timing issues may not be as acute. We want to compete for that buyer. But if they're going to have a design center experience, they're going to get to have the benefit of our mortgage choice experience. They're buying a zero-energy home.

<unk> and their timing issues may not be as acute we want to compete for that buyer, but if theyre going to have a design center experience, they're going to get to have the benefit of our mortgage choice experience. They are buying the zero energy home I'm, not encouraging and we're not often going to find ourselves competing on price for that buyer given the other things that we do so.

Allan P. Merrill: I'm not encouraging it, and we're not often going to find ourselves competing on price for that buyer, given the other things that we do. So when the whole market gets very incentivized and very SPAC-oriented, we've got to be a little careful. And I think that was true this year. I think that will be true in the October-November time period in future years. Good answer. And then could you identify some of the strongest and weakest markets and maybe provide some color around why this may be and how it could change? Yeah, I will try it.

When the whole market gets very incentivized and very spec oriented we've got to be a little careful and I think.

That is that was true this year.

That will be true in the October November time period in future years.

Good answer and then can you identify some of the strongest and weakest markets and maybe provide some color around why this may be and how it could change.

Yes, I will.

Allan P. Merrill: It's a good question, and I'm only chuckling because Dave and I were thinking about, hey, what are the things that are likely going to come up? And we talked about the market. So I'll give you a couple of markets that performed well. I'll tell you a place or two that I don't think performed as well.

It's a good question and I'm only chuckling, because David I always we're thinking about what are the things that are likely going to come up and we talked about the market. So I'll give you a couple of markets that performed well I'll tell you a place or two that I don't think performed as well, but I have to offer them not a surgeon general, but I want to offer my equivalent of a serving surgeon.

Allan P. Merrill: But I have to offer, I'm not a surgeon general, but I want to offer my equivalent of a surgeon general health warning to you. And that is, when we feel really good about how a market has performed in a period of time, maybe we were just awesome. And conversely, you know, if a market wasn't quite as strong for us, we maybe need to look in the mirror first. So my comments will talk about what happened to us, but we're pretty honest with ourselves about, was that a rising tide, or did we really outcompete? And conversely, when things aren't great, that may have been us. And so, please kind of keep that in mind. We try and be really humble about that.

Ill health warning to you and that is when we feel really good about how our market performed in a period of time, maybe we were just awesome and Conversely.

If a market wasn't quite as strong for us we maybe need to look in the mirror. One. So my comments will talk about what happened to us, but we're pretty honest with ourselves about was that a rising tide or did we really outcompete and Conversely, when things are great that may have been us and so please keep that in mind.

We try and be really humble about that we had.

Allan P. Merrill: You know, we had markets that performed well really across the country geographically, so it wasn't very narrowly focused. Really pleased with engagement with buyers in California, and was particularly strong in Las Vegas in the fourth quarter, calendar quarter, first quarter for us. Dallas continues to be a monster market, a strong market, a great job growth market, and we do very well there. And then on the East Coast, our mid-Atlantic business did quite nicely. So I would say, you know, across left to right or west to east, those are the markets that performed well. You know, we did really well in Nashville.

We had markets that performed well really across the country geographically. So it wasn't it wasn't very narrowly focused really pleased with.

Engagement with buyers in California was engaged in a particularly strong in Las Vegas.

In the fourth quarter calendar quarter first quarter for us.

Dallas continues to be a monster market strong market great job growth market.

And we do very well there and then on the East Coast mid Atlantic business performed quite nicely. So I would say across left or right or west to east those are the markets that performed well.

We did really well in Nashville, that's that continues to be a strong market.

Allan P. Merrill: That continues to be a strong market. You know, I would tell you, we found the going a little tougher in Florida. Now, our business is centered in Orlando. We found that to be a pretty price competitive market, and it was a little stickier in the first quarter. So that's one that I would point to.

I would tell you we found the going a little tougher in Florida now our business is centered in Orlando.

Found that to be a pretty price competitive market.

And.

It was a little stickier in the first quarter. So that's one that I would point to I think the Houston market, which is also pretty price sensitive it was fine, but it wasn't our strongest Dallas.

Allan P. Merrill: I think the Houston market, which is also pretty price sensitive, was fine, but it wasn't as strong as Dallas. And I think we've got a big business there, so I feel like our experience was pretty representative. Those would be two places where I think the rollover in rates will prove to be pretty helpful in 24 hours. Very helpful. Thank you very much. Thanks, Alex. Once again, if you would like to ask a question at this time, you can press star 1 and record your name when prompted.

And I think we've got a big business there. So I feel like our experience was pretty representative those would be two places where I think the rollover in rates will will prove to be pretty helpful. In 'twenty four.

Very helpful. Thank you very much thanks, Alex.

Once again, if you would like to ask a question at this time you can press star one and record your name when prompted.

Operator: Our next question will come from Jay McCanless with Wedbush. Your line is open. Hey guys, thanks for taking my questions. So the SG&A guidance for the second quarter looks like it's about 80 basis points higher than what you guys put up in the second quarter 20 fiscal second quarter 23. I guess how much of that is those closings getting pushed to the second quarter versus costs going up for whether it's co-brokering other things, maybe if you could break that out and then also what cost increases are y'all seeing on those SG&A lines? Well, Jay, a couple things. It's day one.

Our next question will come from Jay Mccanless with Wedbush. Your line is open.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions.

The SG&A guidance for the second quarter.

Sorry, it's about 80 basis points higher than than what you guys put up in the second quarter 2000 fiscal second quarter 'twenty three.

I guess, how much of that is those closings getting pushed to the second quarter.

Versus cost going up for <unk>.

It's co broker other things, maybe if you could break that out and then also what what cost increases are you all seeing on those SG&A lines.

Well Jay a couple of things, it's Dave one it's not really the commissions that you're talking about that's been pretty steady for.

Operator: It's not really the commissions that you're talking about; that's been pretty steady for the past few quarters. What you're really seeing on the overhead line, especially next quarter, is that we're investing in the business for growth. There are some costs that you obviously have to incur as you expect community account growth to expand as we move. And Alan kind of talked about, as we moved through 24, the growth that we talked about, and then into 25 and 26.

For the past few quarters, what you're really seeing on the overhead line, especially next quarter, we're investing in the business for growth.

There are some costs that you obviously have to encourage you expect community count growth to expand as we move and Alan kind of talked about as we move through 'twenty for the growth that we talked about and then into 'twenty five and 'twenty six.

Operator: And certainly, as we look at new community openings and getting prepared for that, there's some incremental overhead. Look, there's no doubt overheads are higher than we want them to be, and they will be as a percentage lower. But it's all about getting these communities opening really well and then getting some more revenue leverage on the overhead line as we grow the business in the next couple of years. Can you talk about the reduction in the fiscal 24 gross margin guide? Is that mixed?

Certainly as we look at new community openings and getting prepared for that there is some incremental overhead.

There is no doubt overheads are higher than we want them to be and they will and they will be as a percentage lower but it's all about getting these communities opening open to open them really well and then getting some more revenue leverage on the overhead line as we grow as we grow the business in the next couple of years.

And then.

Can you talk about the reduction in the fiscal 'twenty four gross margin guide.

Is that mix is that geography, what what's going on with that.

Allan P. Merrill: Is that geography? What's going on with that? Well, I think we went a little deeper in Q1 in order to find the market, and we'll close those homes in Q2 and Q3. And as I said to a previous question, we were able to change pricing and incentives as we rolled into January, so I feel pretty good about there being a bottoming out. But the other thing is we're going to end up with a little higher mix of specs, relative because part of the thing you do when you launch a new community is you seed it with five, six, seven specs. And that won't be 100% of our closings on a run rate basis won't be specs, but 100% of the initial closings will be specs, and we generally do several hundred basis points better on to-be-builts than on So I think those two things relate.

Well I think we went a little deeper in Q1 in order to find the market and we've got a we'll close those homes in Q2 and Q3.

And as I said to a previous question, we were able to change pricing and incentives as we rolled into January so I feel pretty good about there'll be a.

Bottoming out but the other thing is we're going to end up with a little higher mix of specs relative to to be built this year because part of the thing you do when you launch a new community as you've seen it with 567 specs and that won't be a 100% of our closings on a run rate basis won't be specs, but 100% of the initial closings will.

Specs and we generally do several 100 basis points better on to be built that on specs and that's been true.

As long as I've been here, so I think those two things.

Allan P. Merrill: You know, I think the flip side, and Jay, this is, it's related, and if you'll humor me for a second, one thing to keep in mind about our margins, because, you know, we want to think about it relative to our own performance, but I also want to put it in a little bit of a market context. Remember, as we deliver these zero-energy-ready homes, there's a $5,000 tax credit that we're eligible for, and we'll claim that will result in real-time cash tax savings. Now, you know, I know that when we're talking about the business and gross margins, people's eyes glaze over a little bit when we talk about taxes, but if you think about five grand, that's equivalent to a point of margin. Now, geography on the income statement is in the tax line, not in the gross margin.

We're late and I think the flipside and Jay This is its related and if you'll humor me for a second one thing to keep in mind about our margins because we want to think about it relative to our own performance I also want to put it in a little bit of a market context remember as we deliver these zero energy ready homes, there's a fire.

$5000 tax credit that were eligible for and will claim that will result in real time cash tax savings now.

I know that when we are talking about the business and gross margins People's eyes glaze over a little bit when we talk about tax, but if you think about five grand that's equivalent to a point of margin.

Now the geography on the income statement.

As in the tax line not in the gross margin, but thats one of the things that we are seeing is we've got the benefit of a structurally lower tax rate because of the acceleration of our zero energy ready homes. So just as you're thinking about margin make sure you think about that piece in our case as well.

Allan P. Merrill: But that's one of the things that we are seeing is that we've got the benefit of a structurally lower tax rate because of the acceleration of our zero-energy-ready homes. So just as you're thinking about margin, make sure you think about that piece in our case as well. Good to know. Thank you, Alan.

Okay. Good to know thank you Helen.

Sure.

Allan P. Merrill: I know you don't like talking about the current month, but anything you could give us on what pricing power looks like and what you've been able to do, it sounded like it got a little better in January, but just maybe directly, where pricing power is now, where you feel like you can take prices. Look, I think we were able to, off the strength of the momentum that we built in December, which was better than we expected to do, we found the market, we started pulling some levers, and some of that was on incentives, some of that was on base pricing, so as we rolled into January, we were tweaking those things, and we've been able to sustain a decent sales pace through January. I don't have a January number, so I can't kind of get into that. I mean, the month isn't closed for us yet, but I would tell you I'm pretty encouraged about the spring selling season and encouraged that we'll be able to at least sustain the improvements that we have claimed.

I know you don't like talking about the current months, but anything you could give us on what pricing power looks like.

And what you've been able it sounds it sounds like you've got a little better in January but just maybe directly.

Pricing power is now where you feel like you can take price.

Look I think we were able to off the strength of the momentum that we built in December alright that was that was a.

Better than we expected to do we found the market we started pulling some levers and some of Thats an incentive some of that is on base.

Based pricing so as we rolled into January we were we were tweaking those things and we've been able to.

Sustain a decent sales pace through January.

Not have January numbers, so I can't kind of get into that I mean the.

Isn't closed for us yet, but I would tell you I'm pretty encouraged about the spring selling season and encouraged that we'll be able to at least sustain the improvements that we have claimed.

Allan P. Merrill: There's a chance, regardless of rates, that we get a little euphoria, a little enthusiasm in the spring. We may be able to do a bit better than that, but we're not predicated on in our guidance for margins that things get better from an incentive and pricing standpoint than they are right now. Does that make sense?

This chance regardless of rates, we get a little euphoria little enthusiasm in the spring, we may be able to do a bit better than that but we're not predicated in our guidance for margins that things get better from an incentive and pricing standpoint than they are right now does that make sense.

Allan P. Merrill: That's kind of how we're thinking about the year. And theoretically, it doesn't get better because there is still pretty intense competition, I would think, from some of your larger competitors to keep up their sales faces. Is that what you're assuming with this guide?

Okay. So that's that's kind of how we're how we're thinking about the year.

And theoretically it doesn't get better because there is still pretty intense competition I would think from some of your larger competitors to keep up their sales paces is that what you are assuming with this guy.

Allan P. Merrill: Yes, and I think at an even higher level. Affordability is still a pretty darn challenge, right?

Yes, and I think at an even higher level.

Affordability is still pretty darn challenged.

Alright, I mean, that's a reality it's different from three years ago four years ago five years ago, six years ago, 656, and three quarters. Okay. We can we can talk about buy downs, but youre talking about monthly payments that are quite elevated relative to where they were a few years ago. We've always got a chart in our deck that talks about payment as a percentage of income.

Allan P. Merrill: I mean, that's a reality. It's different from three years ago, four years ago, five years ago, six years ago, six and a half, six and three quarters. Okay, we can talk about buy-downs, but you're talking about monthly payments that are quite elevated relative to where they were a few years ago. You know, we've always got a chart in our deck that talks about payments as a percentage of income. And, you know, that continues to be at a pretty elevated level, and I think the reality of that is one of the things that just says, "let's be a bit cautious about how much better this gets given the reality of that affordability picture." And then, if we could talk about cycle time a little bit, where is that now versus maybe where it was in the September quarter and year ago? Yeah, it's significantly improved.

And that continues to be at a pretty elevated level and I think the reality of that.

Is one of the things that just says let's be a bit cautious about.

How how much better this gets given the reality of that.

Of that affordability picture.

And then if we could talk about cycle time, a little bit where is that now versus maybe where it was.

In the September quarter than year ago.

Yes.

Significantly improved I think year over year, we're about 70 days of cycle time improved I may be off by a couple but it's about that I think we've still got a month to go get back relative to what I'll call the pre COVID-19 period.

Allan P. Merrill: I think, year over year, we're about 70 days of cycle time improved. I may be off by a couple, but it's about that. I think we've still got a month to go to get back relative to what I'll call the pre-COVID period.

Allan P. Merrill: We are not expecting that we're going to get all that back this year. I hope we do. We'll try. But I think we've got a build cycle that we look at across 13 stages. And you know, we've got that down right, you know, right at 70 days year over year.

We are not expecting that we're going to get all that back this year I hope, we do we will try to.

But but I think we've got a.

Build cycle that we look at.

Across 13 stages, and we've got that down right at 70 days year over year and as I said we.

Allan P. Merrill: And as I said, we're targeting another 20 or 30 over the next year or two. And then the last one I have, if you could talk about input costs, both labor and materials, what trends you're seeing there and what you're expecting for at least the next couple of quarters. Jay, it's Dave.

We're targeting another 20 or 30 over the next year or two.

And then the last one I have if you could talk about input costs, both labor and materials, what trends youre seeing there and what youre expecting for at least the next couple of quarters.

Jamie it's Dave.

Operator: You know, I'll start maybe with material costs. I would tell you, and we've talked about this a little before, lumber costs have really declined since the peak in late 22. We've seen a little bit of a pickup recently, but nothing overly significant, especially because we're just starting to see, for the first time, the square footage in our house come down a little bit in the last couple quarters. So it's a pretty recent trend.

Certainly with material costs.

I would tell you and we've talked about slow before lumber costs have really declined since the peak in late 'twenty, two we've seen a little bit of a pickup recently, but nothing nothing overly significant.

Actually because we're just starting to see for the first time square Footages in our house come down a little bit.

And the last couple of quarters. So it's a pretty recent trend again, it's on a per house, maybe a little bit up, but nothing significant or material side and on the labor side I would tell you it's pretty similar.

Operator: Again, kind of per house, maybe a little bit higher, but nothing significant on the material side. And on the labor side, I would tell you it's pretty similar. We haven't really seen a lot of discounts on the labor side, but we haven't seen a lot of price pressure or a lot of cost pressure on the labor side. So it's been relatively benign overall, with a nice tailwind from lumber offsetting some higher costs across other materials. Look, if demand is super strong this spring, we're going to get some cost pressures, there's no question, and it'll start on the labor side. If that happens, we'll have some pricing power. So I feel like we're in a pro-cyclic mini-cycle here this spring, and I'm not predicting that, but that's sort of the case.

Haven't really seen a lot of a discount on the labor side, but we haven't seen a lot of price price pressure and a lot of cost pressure on the labor side. So it's been relatively benign overall with a nice tailwind from lumber offsetting some higher cost across the across all of the materials.

Okay demand is super strong this spring.

Going to get some cost pressures there is no question and it'll be it'll start on the labor side, if that happens we're going to have some pricing power. So I feel like we're in a pro cyclic mini cycle here this spring and I'm not predicting that but that's sort of the case of rates come down it uses demand a little bit yes, we're going to see some cost pressures, we're going to have even more pricing power.

Allan P. Merrill: If rates come down, it reduces demand a little bit, yeah, we're going to see some cost pressures. We're going to have even more pricing power. I am not worried about an unfavorable mix where we end up with less pricing power and more cost pressure. That doesn't seem likely over the next couple of quarters.

I am not worried about an unfavorable mix, where we end up with less pricing power and more cost pressure that doesn't seem likely over the next couple of quarters.

Operator: I guess, I have one more, because you raised the point about the labor. I mean, we've heard from other builders, public and private, that multi-family construction, especially in the southeast, seems to have peaked and is on the wane, which is freeing up some labor availability. Are you guys seeing any of that yet? Yeah. There are certain trades that are crossovers.

Do I guess a lot I got one more because you.

You raised the point about the labor I mean, we've heard from other builders public and private.

Multifamily construction, especially in the southeast seems to have peaked and is on the wane.

That's freeing up some labor availability are you guys seeing any of that yet.

There are certain trades that are crossovers.

If they are doing.

Allan P. Merrill: If they're working above two or three stories, those trades don't immediately translate to our single-family business, but yeah, they're drywall, painting, plumbing, and electrical contractors, and I agree with that. I think that there are some markets where there is some excess right now. So, yes, that is a factor, but you can appreciate this. We don't want just anybody to build our home. And so one of the things we're trying to do is make sure that we maintain our safety protocols, our quality protocols, and our schedule protocols. Cost is certainly an important part of that equation, but we always put safety first. If builders or the trades aren't following our safety protocols, they can't be on our job site, and I don't ever want to compromise on that. That's number one. So yes, we can see a little benefit from that, but we're going to be careful not to chase, you know, 10 cents a square foot if it changes the safety or the cleanliness of our job site.

They are working above two or three stories those trades don't immediately translate to our single family business, but yes. They are dry wall painting plumbing electrical contractors and I agree with that I think that there are some markets where there is some excess.

Right now and.

Sure.

So yes, that's that is a factor.

You can appreciate this we don't want just anybody to build our home and so one of the things. We're trying to do is make sure that we maintain our safety protocols are quality protocols are scheduled protocols.

Cost is certainly an important part of that equation, but.

We always put safety first if builders or the trades arent following our safety protocols that can't be on our job site and I don't ever want to I don't ever want to compromise on that that's number one.

Yes, we can see a little benefit from that but we're going to be careful not to go Chase 10, a square foot if it changes.

Safety or the cleanliness of our job sites.

Operator: Thanks guys. Thank you. We have no further questions. Okay, I want to thank everybody for attending our first quarter call, and we'll be back next quarter to give an update on how the business is going. Thank you very much, and talk to you soon. Thank you. That does conclude today's conference. Thank you for participating. You may disconnect at this time.

Understood. Okay. Thanks, guys.

Sure.

Thank you we have no further questions.

Okay I want to thank everybody for attending our first quarter call and we'll be back next quarter to update on our business going Thank you very much.

Talk to you soon.

Thank you that does conclude today's conference. Thank you for participating you may disconnect at this time.