Q4 2023 Simon Property Group Inc Earnings Call

Operator: Greetings and welcome to the Simon Property Group fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.

Greetings and welcome to the Simon property group fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings conference call.

At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance. During the conference. Please press star zero on your telephone keypad.

Operator: A brief question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Tom Ward, Senior Vice President and Director of Relations. Thank you, Tom. You may begin. Thank you, Paul. And thank you everyone for joining us this evening.

Minder This conference is being recorded.

It's now my pleasure to introduce your host Tom Ward Senior Vice President Investor Relations. Thank you Tom you may begin.

Thomas Ward: Thank you Paul.

Thomas Ward: Thanks for joining us this evening presenting on today's call are David <unk>.

Thomas Ward: Presenting on today's call are David Simon, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, President, and Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer. A quick reminder that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and that results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties, and other factors. We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors relating to those forward-looking statements. Please note that this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliation with non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures is included in the press release and the supplemental information in today's Form 8K filing. Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at investors.simon.com. Our conference call this evening will be limited to one hour. For those who would like to participate in the question-and-answer session, we ask that you please respect the request to limit yourself to one question. I'm pleased to introduce David Simon.

Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Brian Mcdade, Chief Financial Officer.

A quick reminder, that statements made during this call maybe deemed forward looking statements within the meaning of the safe Harbor of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

Brian J. McDade: Actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks uncertainties and other factors. We refer you to today's press release, and our SEC filings for a detailed list.

Brian J. McDade: The risk factors relating to those forward looking statements. Please note that this call includes information that maybe accurate only as of today's date.

Brian J. McDade: Conciliation with GAAP financial measures most directly comparable GAAP measures.

Brian J. McDade: Within the press release and supplemental information in today's form 8-K filing both the press release and supplemental information are available on our Ohio.

Brian J. McDade: Website at investors Simon.

Brian J. McDade: Uh huh.

Brian J. McDade: Paul Seavey will be limited to one cause.

Paul Seavey: I also would like to participate in the question answer session. We ask that you, please especially I'm quite familiar yourself to one question and I'm pleased to introduce David Simon.

David E. Simon: Good evening. Thanks, Tom. Turning to the results, I would like to provide some perspective on our company as we celebrated our 30th anniversary. As a public company, mid-December of last year, we have grown our company into a global leader of premier shopping, dining, entertainment, and mixed-use destinations. Managing through, and in some cases, very turbulent times, over the last three decades, from our base of 115 properties in 1993, we have acquired approximately 300 properties, developed more than 50, and disposed of approximately 250, resulting in our current domestic portfolio of about 215 assets. We expanded globally and today have 35 international outlets, including world-renowned outlets in Asia.

David E. Simon: Hi, good evening.

David E. Simon: Thanks, Tom before.

David E. Simon: Turning to the results I would like to provide some perspective.

David E. Simon: On our company as we celebrated our 30 <unk> anniversary.

As a public company.

David E. Simon: Mid December outside of last year, we have grown our company.

David E. Simon: Into a global leader Premier shopping dining.

David E. Simon: Entertainment and mixed use destinations.

Managing through and in some cases very turbulent.

Over the last three decades.

David E. Simon: That's from our base of 115 properties in 1993.

David E. Simon: We have acquired approximately 300 properties developed more than 50.

David E. Simon: Disposed of approximately 250, resulting in our foreign and.

David E. Simon: Domestic portfolio about 215.

David E. Simon: We expanded globally and today have 35 international outlets.

David E. Simon: During world now world renowned outlets in Asia.

David E. Simon: And our portfolio is differentiated by product type, geography, enclosed and open air centers located in large and dense catchment areas. It is supported by the industry's strongest balance sheet and a top management team. We are the largest landlord to the world's most important retailers, and not by accident; our diversified tenant base has solid credit, and our mix is always changing and adapting, best illustrated by the fact that, compared to 30 years ago, only one retailer is still in our current top 10. Our team's hard work has resulted in industry-leading results, including some of the following: our annual revenue increased. From $424 million to nearly $5.7 billion, annual FFO generation increased 30 times, from approximately $150 million to nearly $4.7 billion, a 12% CAGR. The total market capitalization has increased from $3 billion to $90 billion.

David E. Simon: Portfolio is differentiated by product type geography.

David E. Simon: Enclosed and open air centers located in large and dance catchment areas.

David E. Simon: Our portfolio is supported by the industry's strongest balance sheet in a top management team.

David E. Simon: We are the largest landlord the world's most important retailers.

And not by accident.

David E. Simon: First supply tenant base has solid credit there.

David E. Simon: Mix is always changing and adapting.

<unk> illustrated by the fact that compared to 30 years ago only one retailer is.

David E. Simon: Still in our current top 10.

David E. Simon: Okay.

Our team's hard work has resulted in industry, leading results, including some of the following our annual revenue increased 410 from 424 million.

David E. Simon: Through nearly 5.7 billion.

David E. Simon: The annual asset so generate or that's at our annual that's S. O generation increased 30 times from approximately 150 million to nearly 4.7 billion% to 12% CAGR total market capitalization has increased from 3 billion.

David E. Simon: 290 billion.

David E. Simon: We have paid over $42 billion in dividends to shareholders. We have assets in our portfolio that have been in business for more than 60 years, and those assets are still growing today, with many generating $100 million in NOI. These assets are in great locations.

David E. Simon: We have paid over $42 billion in dividends to shareholders.

David E. Simon: We have the assets in our portfolio that had been in business for more than 60 years.

David E. Simon: Those assets are still growing today with many many generating 100 million in N y C.

David E. Simon: These assets are in great locations.

David E. Simon: I have a loyal and large customer base and am where the retailers want to be. No other asset type has the longevity, including the NOI generation and embedded future growth that these assets have. Yes, they change. Yes, they evolve.

The oil and large customer base.

David E. Simon: Where the retailers want to be.

David E. Simon: No other asset type has real longevity, including D N O y generation and embedded future growth.

David E. Simon: These assets have yesterday change yeah.

David E. Simon: Yesterday at Bald yesterday adapt but yes. They also grew up.

David E. Simon: Yes, they adapt. But yes, they also grow. Our collection of assets cannot be replicated, and there are hidden, always hidden opportunities within them. I want to thank the entire Simon team who have contributed to 30 years of success as a public company. And now, let me turn to our fourth quarter results. We generated approximately $4.7 billion in funds from our operation in 2023, or $12.51 per share, and returned $2.9 billion to shareholders in dividends and share repurchases. For the quarter, FFO was $1.38 billion, or $3.69 per share, compared to $1.27 billion, or $3.40 per share.

David E. Simon: Our collection of assets cannot be replicated.

David E. Simon: And there are hidden always hidden opportunities within them.

David E. Simon: Within that I want to thank the entire assignment team who have contributed to 30 years of success as a public company.

David E. Simon: And now let me turn to our fourth quarter 'twenty three results, we generated approximately $4 $7 billion in funds from operation in 2023 or $12.51 per share and returned $2 $9 billion to shareholders.

David E. Simon: In dividends and share report repurchases for the quarter, that's always 1.38 billion.

David E. Simon: Or $3.69 per share compared to.

David E. Simon: 1 billion, a 1.27 billion or $3.40 per share. Let me walk you through some of the highlights for this quarter compared to Q4 of.

David E. Simon: Let me walk you through some of the highlights for this quarter compared to Q4 of 2022. Domestic operations had a terrific performance this quarter and contributed $0.28 of growth, primarily driven by higher rental income with lower operating expenses. Gains from investment activity in the fourth quarter were approximately $0.07 higher in a year-over-year comparison. Other platform investments had a $0.03 lower contribution compared to last year.

David E. Simon: 2022 domestic operations had a terrific performance this quarter.

David E. Simon: Contributed 28 cents of growth.

Primarily driven by higher rental income with lower operating expenses.

David E. Simon: Gains from investment activity in the fourth quarter were approximately seven cents higher.

David E. Simon: And a year over year comparison other platform investments.

David E. Simon: <unk> slower contribution compared to last year.

David E. Simon: FFO from our real estate business was $3.23 per share in the fourth quarter, compared to $2.97 from last year. That's 8.7% growth, and $11.78 per share for 23 compared to $11.39 last year. Domestic property NOI increased 7.3% year over year for the quarter and 4.8% for the year.

David E. Simon: So from a real estate business was $3.23 per share in the fourth quarter compared to $2.97 from last year at eight 7% growth and $11.78 per share for 23 compared to one <unk>.

David E. Simon: $7.39 last year.

David E. Simon: Domestic property NOI increased 7.3% year over year for the quarter.

David E. Simon: And four 8% for the year continued leasing momentum resilience.

David E. Simon: Continued leasing momentum, resilient Consumer Spending, and Operational Excellence delivered results for the year exceeding our initial expectations. Our NOI ended the year higher than the 2019 pre-pandemic level. Portfolio NOI, which includes our international properties at constant currency, grew 7.2% for the quarter and 4.9% for the year. Ball and Outlet occupancy at the end of the fourth quarter was 95.8%, an increase of 90 basis points compared to last year. The Mills occupancy rate was 97.8.

David E. Simon: Consumer spending operational excellence.

David E. Simon: Delivered results for the year exceeding our initial expectations.

David E. Simon: Our N O Y ended the year higher than 2019 pre pandemic levels portfolio NOI, which includes our international properties at current state currency grew seven 2% for the quarter.

David E. Simon: And four 9% for the year.

David E. Simon: All of the outlets occupancy ended the quarter fourth quarter was 95, 8% an increase of 90 basis points compared to last year and Bill's occupancy was 97 eight.

David E. Simon: Occupancy is above year-end 2019 levels for all of our platforms, average base minimum rent for malls and outlets increased 3.1% year over year, and the mills rent increased 4.3%. We signed more than 960 leases for approximately 3.4 million square feet in the fourth quarter. For the year, we signed over 4,500 leases, representing more than 18 million square feet. Approximately 30% of our leasing activity for the year was new deals with going rents of approximately $74 per square foot, and renewals had going rents of approximately $65 per square foot. Leasing momentum for the last couple of years continues; into 2024, reported retail retail sales per square foot per quarter were $743 for malls and outlets combined and $677 for the mills. During the quarter, we sold a portion of our interest in ABG for gross proceeds of $300 million in cash and reported pre-tax and after-tax gains of $157 million and $118 million, respectively. We opened our 11th outlet in Europe last year, and construction continues on two more outlets. Yes, one in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

David E. Simon: Occupancy is above year end 2019 levels for all of our platforms average base minimum rent for malls and outlet.

David E. Simon: Increased three 1% year over year and the mills rents increased four 3%, we signed more than 960 leases.

David E. Simon: We're approximately three 4 million square feet in the fourth quarter for the year, we signed over 4500 leases representing more than 18 million square feet, approximately 30% of our leasing activity for the year or.

David E. Simon: Our new deals with going in rents of approximately $74 per square foot and renewals had going in rents of approximately $65 per square foot leasing momentum for the last couple of years continues right into 'twenty 'twenty four.

David E. Simon: Reported retail retailer sales per square foot at the border.

David E. Simon: Was $743 for malls and outlets.

Bind and 677 for the mills.

David E. Simon: During the quarter, we sold a portion of our interest in the a b G.

For gross proceeds of $300 million.

David E. Simon: And cash and reported pretax and after tax gains of $157 million and $118 million respectively.

We opened our 11 outlet in Europe last year construction continues on two outlets, yes, one in Tulsa, Oklahoma and yes, one in Jakarta, Indonesia.

David E. Simon: And yes, one in Jakarta, Indonesia. We completed 13 significant redevelopments, and we'll complete other major development projects this year. In addition, we expect to begin construction this year on five to six mixed-use projects, representing around 800 million dollars to spend. From Orange County to Ann Arbor to Boston to Seattle to Roosevelt Field are some of the ones that we are planning to start this year.

We completed 13 significant redevelopments and won't complete other major development projects this year.

David E. Simon: In addition, we expect to begin construction this year.

David E. Simon: On five to six mixed use projects.

David E. Simon: Representing around $800 million of spend.

David E. Simon: From Orange County to Ann Arbor to Boston to Seattle to Roosevelt field or some of the ones that.

David E. Simon: Our planning to start this year.

David E. Simon: And we expect to fund these redevelopments and mixed-use projects with our internally generated cash flow of over $1.5 billion after dividend payment. During 2023, we completed $12 billion in financing activities, including three senior note offerings for approximately $3.1 billion, including the Clay-Pierre exchangeable offering. We recast and upsized our primary revolver credit facility to $5 billion and completed $4 billion of secured loan refinancings and extensions. As a result, our A-rated balance sheet is as strong as ever.

David E. Simon: And we expect to find these redevelopments to mixed use projects with our internally generated cash flow.

David E. Simon: Of over $1.5 billion after dividend payments.

During 2023, we completed $12 billion in financing activities.

David E. Simon: Including three senior note offerings for approximately $3 $1 billion, including the cleanup here exchangeable offering.

David E. Simon: We recast and Upsized, our primary revolver credit facility to $5 billion and completed $4 billion of secured loan refinancings and extensions are rated AA rated balance sheet is as strong as ever we have approximately 11.

David E. Simon: We have approximately $11 billion of liquidity. During 2023, we paid, as I mentioned earlier, $2.8 billion in common stock dividends. We repurchased 1.3 million shares of our common stock at an average price of just over $110 per share in 2023. Today, we announced our dividend of $1.95 per share for the first quarter, a year-over-year increase of 8.3%. The dividend is payable on March 29, 2024.

David E. Simon: Billion dollars of liquidity.

David E. Simon: During 2023, we paid as I mentioned earlier $2 $8 billion in common stock dividends, we repurchased one 3 million shares of our common stock.

David E. Simon: The average price of.

David E. Simon: Just over $110 per share in 2023 today.

David E. Simon: Today, we announced our dividend.

<unk>.

David E. Simon: $1.95 per share for the first quarter a year over year increase of eight 3%.

David E. Simon: The dividend is payable on March 29.

David E. Simon: Of 'twenty 'twenty four now 'twenty moving onto 2024, our <unk> guidance is $11 85 to $12.10 per share our guidance reflects the following assumptions domestic property NOI growth of at least 3%.

David E. Simon: Now moving on to 2024, our FFO guidance is $11.85 to $12.10 per share. Our guidance reflects the following assumptions. Domestic property NOI growth of at least 3%, increased net interest expense compared to 2023 of approximately 25 to 30 cents per share, reflecting current market interest rates on both fixed and variable debt assumptions and cash balances, contribution from other property other platform investments of approximately 10 to 15 cents per share, no significant acquisition or disposition activity, and our current diluted share count of approximately 374 million shares. With that said, it's safe to say we're excited to Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone. The confirmation tone will indicate your line is busy. You may press star 2 if you'd like to remove your question. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before speaking to start.

David E. Simon: Increased net interest expense compared to 2023 of approximately 25 to 30 cents per share, reflecting current market interest rates on both fixed and variable debt assumptions and cash balances contribution from other part.

Pretty either platform investments of approximately 10 to 15 cents per share no significant acquisition or disposition activity and our current diluted share count of approximately three.

374 million shares so.

David E. Simon: With that said.

David E. Simon: It's safe to say, we're excited to enter year 31.

David E. Simon: As a public company.

Thank you for your time, and we're ready for Q&A.

David E. Simon: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Thank you we will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you'd like to ask some questions. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue.

Speaker Change: You May press star two if he would like to turn them over your question from the queue for participants using speaker equipment. It may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star Q1 moment. Please while we poll for questions.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Okay.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Our first question is from Steve Aqua with Evercore ISI. Please proceed with your question.

Steve Sakwa: Oh, Thanks, Good evening David.

I was just wondering if you could maybe talk a little bit about kind of the leasing pipeline in and where things stand today versus maybe the year ago, and and you know what sort of conversations are you having with the tenants and maybe how is the pricing dynamic change there given that you're now kind of 95% leased and pretty full in the portfolio.

Operator: One moment, please, while we poll for questions. Thank you. Our first question is from Steve Sakwa with Evercore ISI. Please proceed with your question. Thanks. Good evening, David.

Steve Sakwa: I was just wondering if you could maybe talk a little bit about kind of the leasing pipeline and where things stand today versus maybe a year ago and, you know, what sort of conversations you are having with the tenants and maybe how the price is. dynamic change that given that you're now kind of 95% leased and pretty full Well, I mean, Steve, we're always, Juste, our next, we're always, trying to so even though we're 96% leave their vows. We're always looking to improve our, I don't know, our retailer, MEX. And, you know, obviously that's beneficial to our NOI group. I would say just generically, You know, and obviously, I spent a lot of time myself on leasing.

Speaker Change: Well I mean, Steve we're always.

Speaker Change: Just see our mix, we're always trying to so even though were.

Speaker Change: 96% thereabouts.

Speaker Change: Bass.

Speaker Change: Hmm.

Speaker Change: We're always looking to improve our.

Speaker Change: Now our retailer mix.

Speaker Change: No offense and deaths.

Speaker Change: And beneficial to our NOI growth.

Speaker Change: I would say just generically.

Speaker Change: You know when obviously I spent a lot of time my cell phone leasing.

Speaker Change: And with my team on leasing.

Speaker Change: Demand.

Speaker Change: Remains.

Speaker Change: Very strong.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

And there.

Speaker Change: There is a.

Our real interest by all sorts of retailers and.

Speaker Change: You know people that populate our shopping centers.

And to be part of what we're doing so.

Speaker Change: I think as as you probably saw our new deals are $74 a foot thereabouts of renewals for $65 a foot.

David E. Simon: And with my team on leasing, demand remains very strong, and there is a real interest by all sorts of retailers and, you know, people that populate our shopping centers to be part of what we're doing.

Speaker Change: Our expiring leases this year in the 56 seven range. So you know we're seeing.

David E. Simon: So I think, as you probably saw, our new deals are $74 a foot or thereabouts, our renewals are $65 a foot, and the leases that are expiring this year are in the 56-7 range. So, you know, we're seeing generally positive spreads. Supply and demand is in our favor. Historically low.

Generally positive spreads.

Speaker Change: Supply and demand as our favor.

Speaker Change: Historically low.

Speaker Change: Supply.

Speaker Change: Big properties Cros.

Speaker Change: Cost of the country I mean, there used to be 40 million square feet of retail real estate built every year now there is.

David E. Simon: Supply in big properties across the country, I mean, there used to be 40 million square feet of retail real estate built every year. Now there's essentially, you know, less than a few million here and there. So and then there's been obsolescence, too, which makes the supply, www.patreon.com, I was on the West Coast seeing some of them. The importance of bricks and mortar has never been higher.

Speaker Change: Essentially yeah.

Speaker Change: Less than that.

Speaker Change: Few million here and there so.

Speaker Change: And then theres been obsolescence to which makes the supply.

Speaker Change: Shrink as well so.

Speaker Change: And then Theres just great new retailers that we're very excited to do business with.

Speaker Change: I was on the west coast seen some of them.

<unk>.

Speaker Change: The importance of bricks and border has never been higher.

David E. Simon: AHM, and you know that the cost of cutting all of the things that we've said about don't don't get me wrong e-commerce is critically important, but all of this stuff about e-commerce cost of customer acquisition, returns, stickiness, etc. It continues to be a challenge. If you've looked at the marketplaces... that Pure Online, they run into problems.

Speaker Change: And you.

Speaker Change: You know that the cost of all of the things that we said about that.

Speaker Change: Don't get me wrong E Commerce is critically important but but all of this stuff about e-commerce cost of customer acquisition returns.

Speaker Change: No.

Speaker Change: Stickiness et cetera, all is continues to be a challenge.

You've looked at our marketplaces.

Speaker Change: Is that pure online they run into problems. So.

David E. Simon: So they really need to be connected to bricks and mortar for, you know, survivability. So all of those things are pointing to a positive picture. It's a function of execution.

Speaker Change: You are really they really need to be connected to our bricks and mortar.

Speaker Change: For sustained for survivability.

Speaker Change: Survivability so.

All of those all of those things are pointing to a positive picture, it's a function of execution.

David E. Simon: A function of, you know, being first, a function of continuing to improve our properties, uh, you know, which we're very focused on, but Now, even though we've bounced back and had a couple really good years in terms of Lisa, you know, from the depths of the pandemic, we're not finished, and retail demand, you know, continues, and it's strong, and it's across the board I mean, it is not one category, one retailer, but, you know, but pretty much across the board. Thanks, that's it.

Speaker Change: Function of.

Being first a function of continuing to improve our properties.

Speaker Change: Which we're very focused about but.

Speaker Change: No, even though we've bounce back and had a couple of really good.

Speaker Change: Years in terms of lease up.

Speaker Change: From the depths of the pandemic, we're not finished and retail demand.

Speaker Change: You know continues and it's strong and it's across the board I mean is it is not.

One category one retailer.

Speaker Change: But but pretty much across the board.

Speaker Change: Thanks, that's it.

Caitlin Burrows: Thank you, Steve. Thank you. Our next question is from Caitlin Burrows with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed with your question. Hi, good evening, everyone.

Speaker Change: Thank you Steve.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question is from Caitlin Burrows with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed with your question.

Caitlin Burrows: Hi, Good evening, everyone. David could you give us some more detail on the AVG sale that you referenced maybe how much you still own how much do you think your remaining OPI could be worse, and whether you plan to monetize more in 'twenty, four or maybe what could influence that decision.

David E. Simon: David, could you give some more detail on the ABG sale that you referenced, maybe how much you still own, how much you think your remaining OPI could be worth, and whether you plan to monetize more in 24, or maybe what could influence that decision? Sure. Well, let me just say we sold about 2% of our ABG stock. So we essentially went from just under 12 to just under 10, um, And, you know, we'll continue to look to monetize. These investments, they've been... By and large, very good investments, of course, not just the big ones but the smaller ones as well. You know, obviously, there's a number of them that are synergistic to us. But, you know, we have a strict, The Bollinger Bills. All rights reserved.

David E. Simon: Sure well, let me just.

David E. Simon: We sold.

David E. Simon: About 2%.

Of our APG stock. So we essentially went from just under 12 to just under 10.

David E. Simon: Hum.

David E. Simon: And.

David E. Simon: We'll continue to.

David E. Simon: Look to monetize.

Are these investments they've been.

David E. Simon: In large very good investments.

Across you know not just the big ones, but the smaller ones as well.

David E. Simon: No.

David E. Simon: Obviously there is.

David E. Simon: A number of them that are synergistic to us.

David E. Simon: Hmm.

All right.

David E. Simon: You know we have a strict.

David E. Simon: Uh huh.

David E. Simon: Adherence to creating value.

David E. Simon: Yeah.

David E. Simon: I'm going to edit and get better, and growth from that, then that's where our number one priority will be. So it wouldn't surprise me, Caitlin, for us to continue to... You know, monetize, obviously. Now, some of these are, you know, bigger. We're very focused on portfolio management of those assets and if we can monetize them. Are we going to get a better return plowing them back into our core business? I got it.

David E. Simon: If we think we can deploy that capital into kind of what I'd call. The mother ship.

David E. Simon: And get better.

David E. Simon: Growth from that doesn't that's where our number one priority will be.

David E. Simon: So it Wouldnt surprise me Katelyn for us to continue to.

David E. Simon: You don't monetize obviously.

David E. Simon: Now some of these are you know.

David E. Simon: Bigger.

David E. Simon: Value a bigger investment so it's not there yet.

David E. Simon: All that easy to do.

David E. Simon: To do it in one big swoop, but.

David E. Simon: <unk>.

David E. Simon: We're very focused on it.

David E. Simon:

David E. Simon: Portfolio management of those assets and.

David E. Simon: If we can monetize them.

David E. Simon: Are we going to get a better return plowing it back into our core business.

Speaker Change: Got it thanks.

Caitlin Burrows: Thanks. Yeah, thank you. Our next question is from Jeff Spector with Bank of America. Please proceed with your question. Great, thank you, and first congratulations on the anniversary.

Speaker Change: Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah.

Speaker Change: Our next question is from Jeff Spector with Bank of America. Please proceed with your question.

Jeffrey Spector: Great. Thank you and first congratulations on the anniversary.

Jeffrey Spector: David, there are a lot of initiatives. So as you think about the next five years, I know it's probably a difficult question, but are there one or two key initiatives that you're most excited about as you think about the next five years? Well, you know, look, I say a couple of things on the property level. There's no question that all of the mixed use.

Jeffrey Spector: David There is a lot a lot of initiatives. So as you think about the next five years I know, it's probably a difficult question, but is there one or two key initiatives that you're most excited about as you think about the next five years.

David E. Simon: Well you know.

David E. Simon: Look I'd say a couple of things.

David E. Simon: On the property.

David E. Simon: There is no question that.

David E. Simon: All of the mixed use.

David E. Simon: I'm, the stuff that we're bringing in plus the redevelopment of our Department Store boxes are probably the most interesting and exciting things that we're doing on the ground, and So. That would certainly be number one. Number two is We're very excited about growing our outlet business in Southeast Asia. It's an incredibly, incredibly robust market. A young population and a growing one, and I'm not, when I say Southeast Asia, I'm not, you know, like in Jakarta, places like that where, you know, it's not China, it's places like that where we see, kind of, what we can do in Japan and in Korea on the outside.

David E. Simon: Uh huh.

David E. Simon: Stuff that we're bringing in plus the redevelopment of our.

David E. Simon: Apartment store boxes are probably the most.

David E. Simon: No interesting and exciting things that we're doing on the ground.

David E. Simon: And.

David E. Simon: So.

Speaker Change: Yeah that would certainly be number one number two is.

Speaker Change: We're very excited about growing our.

Speaker Change: Outlet business in Southeast Asia, It's an incredibly.

Speaker Change:

Speaker Change: It's an incredible incredibly robust market young.

Speaker Change: A young population and a growing and I am not when I say South East Asia.

Speaker Change: I'd like to Jakarta, and places like that where you.

Speaker Change: No.

Speaker Change: It's not China it's.

Speaker Change: Places like that where do we see.

Speaker Change: Kind of what we can do in <unk>.

Speaker Change: Japan and in Korea on the outlet side.

David E. Simon: Jeff, you probably know that better than anybody, based on your, your, your, your, your, your previous history with, you know, in terms of that. So we find that very exciting. I'd also say we still are in the pursuit of bringing technology to our oil consumers that allows them to enhance their shopping experience with us. So we've got a lot of initiatives on the marketing, loyalty, Assignment Search is a great example where, you know, our consumer, either in property or pre-visit, can search our tenant base for what if they're looking for a black dress, we're in the center, can I buy it And which retailer?

Speaker Change: Jeff You're you you probably know that better than anybody.

Speaker Change: Based on your your your your your previous history with with.

Speaker Change: In terms of that so that's.

That's very exciting.

Speaker Change: I'd also say we still.

Speaker Change: Or in the pursuit.

Speaker Change: Bringing technology to our <unk>.

Speaker Change: Loyal consumers that allow them to.

Speaker Change: Enhance.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: Shopping experience with us so.

Speaker Change: We've got a lot of initiatives on the marketing loyalty.

Speaker Change: Now assignment search is a great example, where.

Speaker Change: Our consumer either in property or pre visit Ken.

Can search our R. R.

Speaker Change: Our tenant base for what if theyre looking for a black dress, where in this center can I buy it at what retailer.

David E. Simon: Obviously, that ties into the marketplace we're building with Premium Outlets. There'll be some news there this year on that front. So that everyone. You know, that whole echo, that whole system about customer interaction, reinforcing their shopping behavior, rewarding loyalty, expediting their trip, making it more useful, you know, is a big focus. And then, and then, and then, and then, as important, I think this is number four really is just, we've got to do a great job of continuing to evolve our retailer mix. The exciting thing is, you know, there are more and more entrepreneurs; there are more and more exciting retailers that are coming up with great concepts. They proved them out, and then realized that, you know, our centers are a good place for them to do business. So those are the ones that come to mind, but I'm certain there'll be others that I haven't even thought of.

Speaker Change: The asleep that ties into the marketplace we're building.

Speaker Change: With premium outlets there'll be some news there this year on that front.

Speaker Change: So that whole.

Speaker Change: You know that whole eco system.

Speaker Change: Customer interaction.

Speaker Change: Reinforcing their shopping behavior.

Speaker Change: Rewarding loyalty.

Speaker Change: Expediting their trip, making it more useful.

Speaker Change: It's a big focus and then and there.

Speaker Change: And then as important I think this is number four really is just we've got to do a great job of continuing to evolve our retailer mix.

Speaker Change: The exciting thing is.

Speaker Change: And are there there are more and more entrepreneurs are more and more <unk>.

Speaker Change: Siding.

Speaker Change: Retailers that are ours.

Speaker Change: Coming up with great concepts.

Speaker Change: Proving them out and then and then realizing that.

Speaker Change: No.

Speaker Change: Our centers are a good place for them to do business.

Speaker Change: Those to that those.

Speaker Change: Are the ones that come to mind, but I'm certain there will be ones that I haven't even thought of.

Yes.

Jeffrey Spector: Very helpful. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Our next question is from Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler. Please proceed with your question. Hey, good evening.

Speaker Change: Very helpful. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you Jack.

Speaker Change: Our next question is from Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler. Please proceed with your question.

Speaker Change: Hey.

Good evening, good evening out there David.

Alexander Goldfarb: Good evening out there, David. So, I think at the opening, you mentioned that NOI is now exceeding pre-pandemic levels. The dividend is within less than 10% of pre-pandemic levels and sort of, you know, think about Jeff's and Steve's questions on reinvestment. As you think about getting back to that pre-pandemic dividend level, Given the investment opportunities, especially lack of supply and growing demand, you know, people are once again really engaged in physical retail. Does that change your trajectory as you think about getting the dividend back to pre-pandemic levels, meaning are there better investment opportunities with that capital, or is the delta really a function of rising interest rates that's, you know, meaning that the surpassing pre-pandemic NOI versus the dividend is really just a function of the higher interest expense now?

So I think at the opening you mentioned that NOI is now exceeding pre pandemic.

Alexander Goldfarb: The dividend is within less than 10% of pre pandemic and sort of thinking about Jeff and Steve's questions on reinvestment as you think about getting back to that pre pandemic dividend level.

Alexander Goldfarb: Given the investment opportunities, especially lack of supply growing demand you know people are once again really engaged in physical retail.

Alexander Goldfarb: Does that change your trajectory as you think about getting the dividend back to pre pandemic meeting are there better investment opportunities with that capital or is that delta really a function of rising interest rates, that's meaning that the surpassing pre pandemic NOI versus the dividend is really just a function of the higher interest expense now.

David E. Simon: Well, I mean, Alex, look, our yield is ridiculously high. Okay, so that's really, we could financially pay 210 tomorrow, right? So we have a billion five, a free cash flow after our dividends. So it has nothing to do with financial wherewithal.

Speaker Change: Well I mean, Alex look our yield is ridiculously hot okay. So thats really the weakest financially pages 10 tomorrow.

So we have 1 billion five of.

Free cash flow after our dividend so it's nothing to do with financial wherewithal.

David E. Simon: You know, I mean, we would like or we wouldn't like, you know, we don't like trading at this high yield. So, so I think, I think that's kind of how we look at it. We still think as though we have these.

Speaker Change: I mean.

We would like we would like we don't like trading at this higher yield so.

Speaker Change: So I think.

Speaker Change: I think that's kind of how we look at it we still think as we have these.

David E. Simon: You know, additional capital events. We still are, you know, anxious to continue to buy our stock back. And again, when I look at the S&P 500, I look at the Reid Peer Group.

Speaker Change: Additional capital events, we still are.

Speaker Change: Anxious to continue that too.

Speaker Change: To buy our stock back.

Speaker Change: And again when I look at either the S&P 500, I look at the REIT peer group.

David E. Simon: I look at, you know, what the strip center rates are, you know, our yield is plenty high for investment. So tell all of my investors, I could pay 210 tomorrow evening, okay, per quarter without a blink, but our yield is too high. And, you know, it'll be there before you know it, but we would like to trade a little lower yield. Because, you know, we think, you certainly, if you look at it on that basis, our yield is higher than it should be. I mean, the S&P is under 2%.

Speaker Change: I look at.

Speaker Change: What the strip center rates are.

Speaker Change: Our yield is plenty high for investors.

No.

Speaker Change: Mark tell all of our investors I can pay to Teng tomorrow evening, okay per quarter without without a blank, but our yield is too high.

Speaker Change: And it'll be there before you know what we would like to trade at a lower yield.

Speaker Change: Because you know we think.

Yeah.

Speaker Change: Certainly if you look at it on that basis.

Our yield is higher.

Higher than it should be I mean, the S&P is under 2%.

David E. Simon: Our REIT strip centers, Tom, are in the fours. You know, we're close to seven, right? Six and a half, seven. So, I mean, you know, Alex, you should be pounding the table.

Our REIT strip centers, Tom or in the forums.

We're close to 7657.

Speaker Change: I mean, you know Alex you should be pounding the table.

Alexander Goldfarb: Yes, unfortunately, I'm a non-paying customer. The real customers are the ones listening to the call. We're just asking the questions. No, I'm kidding.

Alex: Yes, Unfortunately, I'm a nonpaying customer you think the real customers are the ones listening.

Speaker Change: So the call we're just asking the questions.

Speaker Change: Oh absolutely.

David E. Simon: By the way, we are, just so you know, we like your, you know, welcome out there. We are west of the Hudson. We're not going to tell you exactly where we are, okay? We may not be in Indiana tonight, but we are west of the Hudson.

Speaker Change: Oh.

Speaker Change: By the way we are just so you know we like Youre welcome out there we are west of the Hudson.

Speaker Change: Well, we're not going to tell you exactly where we are okay.

Speaker Change: Indiana.

We may not be in Indiana Tonight, but we are west of the us.

Speaker Change: I assume you'll be in Las Vegas This Sunday.

David E. Simon: Well, I can't tell you much yet. Thank you. Our next question is from Michael Goldsmith with UBS. Please proceed with your question. Good afternoon.

Speaker Change: Well I can't tell you my schedule.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Alright.

Speaker Change: Our next question is from Michael Goldsmith with UBS. Please proceed with your question.

Michael Goldsmith: Thanks a lot for taking my question. David, base minimum rents are up healthily and in the low single-digit range year over year, while your tenant sales per square foot are down slightly. So can you just talk a little bit about these dynamics? Is that a reflection of your rents kind of catching up to some of the strength that tenants experienced before their sales have started to come down? And just how long are these dynamics kind of sustainable like this?

Michael Goldsmith: Good afternoon, and thanks, a lot, particularly my question David base minimum rents are up healthily and in a low single digit range year over year, while your tenant sales per square foot are down slightly. So can you just talk a little bit about these dynamics is that a reflection of your rents kind of catching up to some of the street.

Michael Goldsmith: Parents have experienced before their sales have started to come down and just how long are these dynamics kind of sustainable.

David E. Simon: Thank you. Sure. Good question.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Sure.

David E. Simon: So I will say this. I think the going in rents, renewals, or new leases are very much sustainable. If you look at our occupancy costs. We're still, you know, at the low end of our historical range, and we're at 12.6. And, you know, we have run up to 14 plus percent before. And I would also, yes, I would also...

Speaker Change: Good question, So I will say this.

Speaker Change: I think the rent.

Speaker Change: The going in rent renewals or.

Speaker Change: New leases are very much sustainable if you look at our occupancy cost.

They are still.

Speaker Change: At the low end of our historical range and we're at 12 six.

And we have run up to 2014.

Speaker Change: As a percent before.

Speaker Change: Uh huh.

And I would also.

Speaker Change: I would also.

Speaker Change: Caution.

David E. Simon: I should, you know, report, you know, these are the sales that our candidates are reporting to us. Um, but they are somewhat affected by, you know, the returns they get, and so on. We actually think our sales per foot are higher than this. In some cases, they have the ability to offset returns, and in most cases, they don't, so I just put that out there so I wouldn't, you know, and I mentioned this maybe two, three years ago. We actually think our sales are higher. They come from our properties, and then they're somewhat affected by returns. And we think a lot of those returns are internet sales returns, so they don't even come from our properties.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Report. These are the sales that our tenants are reporting to us.

Speaker Change: But they are somewhat affected by.

Speaker Change: Returns they get and so on we actually think our sales per <unk>.

Speaker Change: Foot or higher than this summer.

Speaker Change: Some cases.

Speaker Change: They have the ability to to offset.

Speaker Change: Our returns in most cases, they don't so I'd just put that out there so I wouldn't.

Mentioned this maybe two three years ago.

Probably certainly pre pandemic, but.

Speaker Change: We reported I know the market likes it we actually think our sales were higher.

Speaker Change: Come from our properties and then there is somewhat affected by returns.

Speaker Change: We think somewhat a lot of those returns are internet sales returns. So they don't even come from our properties.

David E. Simon: So, again, when we look at it, we feel like supply and demand, low occupancy costs, high retail sales, and just overall, demand will be able to generate kind of the new leasing and renewal spreads that we've seen over the last couple of years. Thank you very much.

Speaker Change: And so.

Speaker Change: Again, when we look at it we feel like supply and demand low occupancy cost.

Speaker Change: High retail sales.

Speaker Change: And just overall demand will be able to generate kind of thing.

Speaker Change: The new leasing and renewal spreads that.

Speaker Change: That we've seen over the last couple of years.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Thank you very much.

Speaker Change: Sure.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Floris van Dijkum: Thank you. Our next question is from Floris Van Dijkum with Compass Point. Please proceed with your question. Floris, is your line on mute? or not

Our next question is from Floris Van <unk> with Compass point. Please proceed with your question.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Floris van Dijkum: Or is your line on mute.

Floris van Dijkum: Floors.

Operator: Like we lost Floris. How do we go on? Oh, yeah. Our next question is from Craig Mailman with Citigroup. Please proceed with your question. Hey guys.

Speaker Change: It looks like we lost Flores.

Speaker Change: How do we go on the next call.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: Our next question is from Craig Mailman with Citigroup. Please proceed with your question.

Hey, guys.

Speaker Change: Just.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Just, Just going back to maybe the reinvestment theme here, you guys have plenty of cash after the dividend, and I'm just kind of curious at this point. What is the level of anchor box reinvestment you guys think you need to do, just given what may be vacant today? And, you know, after you guys were spared kind of some of the recent Macy's closings, but just as you look at the portfolio today, kind of what do you think over the next two, three years you can ultimately get back after a re-tenant? And you know, you talked a lot about how the leasing environment is good. Just what's the outlook for re-tenants in those boxes today? What's the targeted kind of makeup there?

Sorry.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Just going back to maybe the reinvestment in here you guys have plenty of cash after the dividend.

And I'm just kind of curious at this point.

Craig Richard Schmidt: What is the level of anchor box reinvestment you guys need you need to do just given what may be vacant today.

Craig Richard Schmidt: After you guys were spared kind of some of the recent Macy's closings, but just as you look at the portfolio today.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Kind of what do you think over the next two three years you guys can ultimately get back and have to re tenant and just.

Craig Richard Schmidt: You've talked a lot about how the leasing environment is good just what's the outlook for we can move those boxes today, what's the.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Targeted kind of make up there and is luxury still doing enough to be able to be the primary kind of backfill option.

David E. Simon: And is luxury still doing enough to be able to be the primary kind of backfill option? Well, on the on the Craig on the department store boxes, I don't have it off the top of my head, but the ones we own, we basically aren't... don't have a ton of work to do. We have a handful of boxes that we own that are in, you know, process, like, for instance, And I mentioned Brey up just briefly on the call. You know, that was a former Sears store. We tore it down.

Speaker Change: Well on the on the on the on.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Craig.

Craig Richard Schmidt: On the Department store box.

I don't have it off the top of my head, but the ones. We all we basically are.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Don't have a ton of work to do we have a handful of boxes that we own.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Matt.

Craig Richard Schmidt: That are in process like for instance.

Craig Richard Schmidt: And I've mentioned, Brian just briefly on the call.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Yeah.

Craig Richard Schmidt: That was a former Sears store tore down in development now.

David E. Simon: It's in development now, under construction now. So the actual stores that we own are not many, probably under 10 at this point, that are either currently under construction or in process. So, you know, a very small amount of, kind of, you know, less of an opportunity than you think the ones that we know transform code still own some boxes, and so does Sarataj. So, you know, we'll, on our property, so we'll see how that evolves. I mean, eventually, some of those could be opportunities for us to buy and redevelop. We haven't made deals on those just because the bidding and the ask have been, you know, too great, but we'll find and I don't I don't think luxury is really going to be the dominant theme on a lot of these mixed-use, I'm sorry on these, you know, boxes. I think a lot of it will So we have we have a number under construction or about to be under construction. But we don't really have that existing pipeline until we make more deals to buy some of the boxes back. It's not as big as you might think, and it's only a handful.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Under construction now so.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Actual stores that we own are.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Not many probably under 10 at this point.

Craig Richard Schmidt: That are either currently under construction or in process. So.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Very small amount.

Speaker Change: Yeah kind of.

Speaker Change: Less of an opportunity than you'd think the ones that we.

Speaker Change: Now transformed co still own some boxes.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: So soda serotypes.

In our property, so we'll see how that evolves I mean, eventually some of those could be.

Speaker Change: Opportunities for us to buy and Redeveloped.

Speaker Change: We haven't made deals on those just because.

Speaker Change: You didn't ask is Ben.

Speaker Change: Two great but.

Speaker Change: We refined and I don't I don't think luxury is really.

Speaker Change: Uh huh.

Speaker Change: Going to be the dominant theme on a lot of these mixed use.

Speaker Change: I'm sorry on these.

Speaker Change: Boxes, I think a lot of it will be continue to be the mixed use development that we're doing.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: And obviously opening up if it's an enclosed mall walgreens et cetera.

Speaker Change: Restaurants, and entertainment and so on it's worked very well.

Speaker Change: So we have we have the number under construction.

Or about to be under construction.

Speaker Change: But we don't really have that.

Speaker Change: Existing pipe.

Speaker Change: That.

Speaker Change: Until we make more deals to buy some of the boxes back.

Speaker Change: Not as big as you might think.

Speaker Change: We have a handful.

David E. Simon: Now Macy's, you know, as you're right, they announced some store closings, none of which are ours, so, you know, we're always very focused on knowing exactly where we might be at risk, though, and I would point out, very importantly, when Sears went out of business, the whole market said, "How are you going to survive?" You know, Sears going out of business, you know, there were 800 I think frankly, they're down to, believe it or not, operating in five, six, seven, eight. I think we actually have the most between us and the town and portfolio. But how are you going to survive it?

Speaker Change: Now Macy's.

Speaker Change: Right.

Speaker Change: And now some store closings, none of which are ours.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Louise.

Speaker Change: Very focused on it.

Exactly.

Speaker Change: Where we might be at risk.

Speaker Change: And I would point out very importantly.

Speaker Change: And Sears went out of business.

Speaker Change: The mobile market said, how are you going to survive.

Speaker Change: Sears going out of business.

Speaker Change: I agree with department stores at that time.

Speaker Change: Frankly, they're down that believe it or not.

Speaker Change: Operating maybe 5678, I think we actually have.

Speaker Change: The most between us and an Italian portfolio.

Speaker Change: But how are you going to survive at the fact that matter is it was a non event.

David E. Simon: The fact of the matter is it was a non-event for the mall customer. And if anything, as we've gotten those boxes back, we've made the center better. So as we look, we don't look at box You know, the changes in box as a concern; we view it really more aggressively and progressively as something that will enhance the properties in our portfolio, and the assets that we were worried about that couldn't survive that, basically don't exist in our portfolio. So if you asked me that question 10 years ago, I might have given you a different answer. Great, thank you. Greg, I hope you get better prior to... The Sydney Conference. I'm sure you will, but you sound like you've lost your voice. Yeah, I don't know how to be on the bandwagon.

Speaker Change: To the ball customer.

Speaker Change: And if anything as we've gotten those boxes back.

Speaker Change: We've made the center better so.

Speaker Change: As we look we don't look at box.

Okay.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: The changes in box as a.

Speaker Change: Concern, we view it really more aggressively and progressive way.

Speaker Change: And that will enhance the properties.

On the portfolio.

Speaker Change: And the assets that we were worried about that couldn't survive that.

Speaker Change: We don't exist in our portfolio anymore. So.

Speaker Change: So if you ask me that question 10 years ago I might have a different answer.

Speaker Change: Great. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Greg I hope you get better prior to.

The City conference I'm sure you're well it sounds like you've lost your voice.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: It could be a momentum by then.

Speaker Change: Alright.

Craig Richard Schmidt: Be well. Our next question is from Vince Tibone with Green Street. Please proceed with your question. Hi, good evening.

Speaker Change: Be well.

Speaker Change: Our next question is from Vince <unk> with Green Street. Please proceed with your question.

Vince: Hi, good evening.

Vince Tibone: Um, could you help me better understand how much incremental FFO we should expect in 24 from development or redevelopment projects that stabilized either later in 23 or are slated to be finished in 24? Would any color help us better understand the timing of incremental NOI and FFO from, you know, all the development activities would be helpful? Yeah, in fact, it's interesting you you you actually take us. I think in 24 we're taking a step back. I'll just give you a trivial example. I mentioned Brea now for the third time, but we have a whole wing that's connected to the former Sears department store that we're redeveloping. We'll have some outdoor shops; we're building. You know, with Dick's Sporting Goods, we have a lifetime fitness resort and then we'll do roughly 300 and, what, 350. Apartments or so, but that wing leading to Sears, We've had to delete it to ultimately put in Zara and Uniqlo.

Vince: Could you help me better understand how much incremental lots of BOE, we should expect in 'twenty four from development and redevelopment projects that stabilized either later in 'twenty. Three are slated to be finished in 24 does any color to help us better understand the timing of incremental NOI and <unk> from all the development activities would be would be helpful.

Speaker Change: Yes in fact.

Speaker Change: It's interesting you you actually take US I think at 24, we're taking a step back.

Speaker Change: I'll just give you.

Speaker Change: No.

Speaker Change: Trivial example.

Speaker Change: And I mentioned brand now for the third time, but we have a whole wing.

Speaker Change: Thats connected to the former Sears Department store that will redevelop in.

Speaker Change: Some outdoor shops, we're building.

Speaker Change: Dick's Sporting goods, we have a lifetime fitness resorts and then we will do.

Speaker Change: Roughly 300 and 350.

Apartments, or so but that we are leading to Sears.

Speaker Change: Had the dealership.

Speaker Change:

Speaker Change: To ultimately put in.

Speaker Change: Sure I'm allowed to say, it but I'll say it anywhere Zara uniqlo.

David E. Simon: And they won't open until the end of 24, best case. So that's. By and large, all of this stuff in the UK that we've listed and I don't I don't believe Bray is in the air, if it is just it'll be in there shortly. None of that is really effective.

And they won't open until.

Speaker Change: And a 24 best case so.

Speaker Change: That's fine.

By and large all of this stuff in the U K that we've listed in that I don't believe Bray as in the year. If it is just it'll be there shortly.

Speaker Change: None of that is really affect it really gets in 'twenty four we do have totaled some opening.

David E. Simon: It really gets in 24. You know, we do have Tulsa opening in late summer, that'll have a marginal impact. Leasing there is going well, but, With all the redeveloping, you know, this is really more of a 25.6 story. And, you know, the one that we'll see.

Speaker Change: The late summer that we'll have a marginal impact.

Speaker Change: Leasing there is going well.

Speaker Change: But.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: With all of the redevelopment.

Speaker Change: This is really more of a 25 six story.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: The one that we will see.

David E. Simon: The benefit of this year, and I'll have a number of them, Andy is six, you know, which we opened, you know, in 23. Yeah, that's the one that I would say is the most, You know, most meaningful of them. But most of the redevelopment is a 25, 26 story. No, that's really helpful.

Speaker Change: Benefit of this year and I don't have a number.

Andy: Andy is six.

Andy: We opened with.

Andy: <unk> 23.

Andy: That's kind of the one that I would say most.

Andy: Most meaningful.

Andy: But most of the redevelopment is a $25 26 story.

Speaker Change: No. That's really helpful. I mean is there any like for just in terms of the.

Vince Tibone: I mean, is there any like for just in terms of, you know, I guess the 1.3 billion that's active today plus the 800 million you're going to start? I mean, what's a fair assumption for 25-26 in terms of the level of maybe spend stabilizing? I mean, that's how we model it, like it's 500 million stabilizing annually at, you know, let's call it a 7-8% yield. A fair assumption, right? And that's what I'm trying to get at, like how quickly.

Speaker Change: The $1 3 billion, that's accurate today, plus the 800 dollar youre going to start I mean, what's the fair assumption for 'twenty five 'twenty six in terms of level of maybe spend stabilizing I mean I have to look at how we model. It like it's 500 million stabilizing annually.

Speaker Change: Seven 8% yield a fair assumption or.

Speaker Change: That doesn't mean I'm trying to get out of it how quickly yes.

Speaker Change: Appreciate I appreciate that.

David E. Simon: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. If you don't include what I saw as ground-up new development, I would say probably about between 600 and 800 billion a year. And our goal would hopefully be, you know, to bring that in at north of 8. Obviously, if it is multifamily, you can still create value at a lower yield than that. And in some cases, you know, we're building at a lower yield than that, like, for instance, both Brea's apartments and the ones that we're building at the former Northgate Mall. We're basically about to start construction there, and we'll be sub-8, so it may round down that 8%. But if you're talking kind of everything else, we would hope to be north of that. Thank you. That's all really helpful color. I appreciate it. Fun!

If you don't include what I saw ground up new development I would say probably about between 600 and $800 billion a year.

Speaker Change: A year ago, and our goal would hopefully be to bring that in at north of eight obviously if.

Speaker Change: If it is multifamily you can still create value at a lower at a lower yield than that.

Speaker Change: And in some cases.

Speaker Change: So we're building at a lower yield than that like for instance.

Speaker Change: Both brands support mats and the ones that we're building at performer Northgate mall.

Speaker Change: Where we're basically about to start construction there will.

We will be Sunday, so it may it may.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: Round down that 8%, but if you are talking kind of everything else, we would hope to be north of that.

Speaker Change: Thank you that's all really helpful color I appreciate it.

Speaker Change: Sure.

Ron Kanvin: Our next question is from Ron Kanvin with Morgan Stanley. Please proceed with your question. Great. Just a two-parter really quickly, starting with the core NOI. Just in 24, can you just touch on the tourist centers and how much recovery there is and how much upside for volume to 24, as well as the variable to fixed conversion? www.thevenusproject.com.

Speaker Change: Our next question is from mom Camden.

Jeff J. Donnelly: Morgan Stanley. Please proceed with your question.

Great.

A two part or really quickly starting with the core NOI.

Camden: And 24 can you just touch on the tourist centers and how much recovery there is and how much upside is providing 24 as well as the variable to fixed conversion just trying to get a sense of how much of a tailwind that is to the core and then on the sort of other platform investment maybe could you just touch on what seasonality should we be thinking.

David E. Simon: So, and Brian will chime in here. I'll just give you some thoughts off the top of my head, and then Brian, hopefully, will agree or correct me. I would say that we saw in 23 a really decent bounce back from the TORUS Centers.

Camden: About between sort of the first part of the year and <unk>. Thanks, so much.

Speaker Change: Sure So Brian will chime in here I'll, just give you some thoughts on my head and then Brian I Hope we will.

Three are correctly so I.

Speaker Change: I would say.

Speaker Change: We saw in 'twenty, three a really deep.

Speaker Change: Bounce back.

Speaker Change: The tourist centers now I gave you a great example, so and I was just happy to look at this for now.

David E. Simon: Now, I gave you a great example, so, and I was just happy to look at this for no. I must have been probably doing my job, but I noticed in Q4. Q4, as an example of the bounce-back, Woodbury... Q4 sales were around $350 million, okay? Which to me is a real good indicator of the bounce-back and obviously the highest forecourt of sales we've had there in quite some time. So I say generally, We're seeing a really good bounce back in the tourist centers. You know, I don't think we're getting, you know, the one area. That is it.

Speaker Change: I must have been.

Speaker Change: Probably doing my job, but but I know it is in Q4.

Speaker Change: Q4 is an example of the bounce back what Barry.

Speaker Change: Q4 sales were around 300.

Speaker Change: $50 million.

Speaker Change: Hey, rich.

<unk> to me is a real good indicator.

Speaker Change: <unk> and obviously the highest fourth quarter sales we've had here.

Speaker Change: Quite some time, so I would say generally.

Speaker Change: We're seeing a.

Speaker Change: Hey.

Speaker Change: A really good bounce back in the tourist centers.

I don't think we're good.

Speaker Change: One area.

Speaker Change: Dad.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

David E. Simon: You know, the U.S. overall, and obviously we'll, you know, we'll, you know, have an impact on us, I do not think we'll see the Chinese. We do not expect the Chinese to come back the way they have before before the pandemic and, and our, our and just our tour centers did outpace our sales for the portfolio by 23 on average. So, a good, good bounce back across the board. And then I would say on your variable read, we continue to see that as a lower percent. Revenues... Oh, you know, the vast majority I think we increased our, You know, the way to think about it. What's interesting is, And again, hopefully, Brian won't need to correct me, but he's always available to correct me.

Speaker Change: The U S overall, and obviously well.

Speaker Change: Whoa Whoa.

Speaker Change: And impacts on us I do not think we'll see the Chinese.

Speaker Change: We do not expect the Chinese to come back the way they have before had before and Dan and Ken.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: R R.

Speaker Change: And just our tourist centers did outpace our sales for the portfolio for 'twenty three on average so good.

Speaker Change: Good bounce back across the board.

Speaker Change: And then I would say on your on your variable rate, we continue to see that as a lower percent.

Speaker Change: Revenues.

Speaker Change: Both.

Speaker Change: No. The vast majority I think we increased store.

Speaker Change: A way to think about it.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Okay, that's interesting is and.

Again, hopefully Brian will need to correct me, but brian's available to correctly.

David E. Simon: Our domestic operations had 28 cents of improvement. Q over Q, that's 28 cents and within that 28 cents, our variable income went down. So I think that gives you a kind of a leading barometer. We're still working that way down, and we're getting that into kind of our base reps. So, and then your final on OPI was lost in Q1, relatively flat in Q2, Q3, and then most of it in Q

Speaker Change: Our domestic operations had 20 cents of improvement.

Speaker Change: Q over Q.

Speaker Change: 28.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: Within that 28 cents or variable income went down.

Speaker Change: So I think that gives you a.

Kind of a leading barometer, we're still working that way down and we're.

Speaker Change: We're getting that into kind of our base rent. So and then your final on OPI.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Loss Q1.

Speaker Change: Relatively flat.

Speaker Change: Q2, Q3, and then most of it in Q4.

David E. Simon: Q2 is a little better than Q3 usually, but only by a margin. And it's only, we're only projecting this year 10 to 15. All right, how did I do? You got it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks, Rob. Thank you. Our next question is from Greg McGinnis with Scotiabank. Please proceed with your question. Good evening, David.

Speaker Change: Q2s, a little better than Q3, usually but on the margin.

Speaker Change: And it's only we're only projecting this year, 10% to 15 <unk>.

Speaker Change: Alright.

Speaker Change: Got it.

Speaker Change: Thanks, so much.

Speaker Change: Sure. Thanks Roger.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question is from Greg Mcginniss Scotiabank. Please proceed with your question.

Greg Mcginniss: Hey, good evening, David I, just wanted to dig into the guidance a bit in that OPI that you decided in particular is it fair to assume that the 10 to 15 cents includes gains or monetization similar to last year.

Greg McGinnis: I just want to dig into the guidance a bit and that OPI that you just cited in particular. Is it fair to assume that the 10 to 15 cents includes gains or monetization similar to last year, or operations expected to improve from the minus? Yeah, thank you for that question. And the answer: No, that's pure operations. And no, you know, one time or, you know, sale gains or any of that are in there.

Speaker Change: Our operation is expected to improve from the minus two cent contribution to <unk> in 2023.

Thanks, Thank you for that question and the answer no that's pure operations.

Speaker Change: And no onetime or sell games, where any of that are in there.

David E. Simon: And yeah, I mean, just, just by saying, we had a, you know, we had a tough 23 in OPI. You know, we saw that we didn't meet both our budgeted expectations and our, You know, our expectations were kind of big this year when we recalibrated it. The team and OPI, you know, again, we're partners with, So it's not just us, you know; we're partners are making significant efforts within their own business to improve performance. And again, the overriding theme was... You know, and, you know, we should be sensitive to this, across the board. The overriding theme was the lower income consumer still, a, you know, with inflation and embedded costs even though inflation has subsided.

Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean, just just fine I mean, we had a we had.

Speaker Change: We have a top 23.

Hi.

Speaker Change: We saw it.

Speaker Change: And we didn't meet our both our budgeted expectations and our.

Speaker Change: Our expectations is kind of midyear when we re calibrated it.

Speaker Change: The team in OPI.

Speaker Change: We're partners with.

Speaker Change: So it's not just us we're partners.

Speaker Change: We are making.

Speaker Change: Significant efforts.

Within their own business to improve performance.

Speaker Change: Uh huh.

Speaker Change: And again the overriding theme was.

And we should be sensitive to this.

Speaker Change: Across the board the overriding theme was the.

Speaker Change: The lower income consumer still.

Speaker Change: Hey.

Speaker Change: Inflation and embedded even though inflation has subsided.

David E. Simon: They're still dealing with things that cost a lot more money than they used to. The good news is that their income is increasing, but they're still not in a position where they have the discretionary income that they need and they deserve. And, you know, we need to figure that out as a country. So just to clarify, no one-time gains, hopefully we're being conservative, and that's kind of where the numbers are. And just to take a step back, we're kind of getting OPI back to where it was before the extraordinary year of 21-22. If you go back in time, this is kind of where the numbers were. Nobody cared.

Speaker Change: They are still dealing with.

Speaker Change: Things that cost a lot more money than they used to.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

The good news is their income is increasing but it's still not in a position that they have the discretionary income.

Speaker Change: That they need and they deserve.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: We need to figure that out as a country.

Speaker Change: So just to clarify so no.

Speaker Change: Now yeah, so hopefully I answered it so no one time gains hopefully the.

Speaker Change: We're being conservative and that's kind of where the numbers are.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: Yes, just to take a step back.

Speaker Change: Getting OPI in this level, where it was pre the extraordinary year of 'twenty. One 'twenty. Two if you go back in time. This is kind of where the number was nobody cared.

David E. Simon: You know, we really outpaced ourselves and that extraordinary 21 and 22, and I think now we're kind of getting back to more, um, you know, a kind of a more stabilized number. So just to clarify, there are going to be some improvements in operations, I guess, that are going to be kind of driving year over year growth. But what do you think that implies in terms of the operational standpoint and the customer for your other tenants in the portfolio? How are those retailers? Are they going to be able to make the same sort of operational?

Speaker Change: We have we really outpaced ourselves.

It had extraordinary 'twenty, one and 'twenty, two and I think now we're kind of getting back to more.

Speaker Change: Yeah, no I'll kind of a more stabilized number.

Speaker Change: So just to clarify so theres going to be some improvements in operations I guess that are going to be kind of driving this year over year growth, but when do you think that implies in terms of the operational standpoint and the customer.

Speaker Change: For your other tenants in the portfolio how are those retailers performing or they are going to be able to make the same sort of operational.

Speaker Change: Changes.

David E. Simon: ... Bennett

David E. Simon: Thank you. Well, you're just talking about our tenant base now? Is that the question? I guess it's JCPenney's fault; that's his question.

Speaker Change: The benefit income.

Speaker Change: Well Youre just talking about our tenant base now is that the question.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Why.

Speaker Change: Are your tenants yeah.

David E. Simon: Okay, okay. Well, like I said, the ones and and and, You know, and the ones in Spark and Penny who I really spoke to, I mean, I think, You know, generally the plan that they have in place. Um, you know, we think we're on the right track. And we're, you know, all working very hard to produce these results.

Speaker Change: Okay, Okay, well, though like I said the ones.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: And the ones in spark and pending I really spoke to I mean I think.

Speaker Change: No.

Generally the plan that they have in place.

Speaker Change: You know where.

Sure.

Speaker Change: We think we're on the right track and we're.

Speaker Change: All working very hard to produce these results.

David E. Simon: And, hopefully, we'll do better than that. Again, I mentioned to you that we're kind of getting back to where we used to be. And if you looked at it in conjunction with pre-pandemic 18-19, that's kind of where the number was, and you know we really outperformed in 21-22 and we really underperformed in 23.

Speaker Change: And hopefully.

Speaker Change: We will do better than that and again I mentioned to you were kind of getting back to where we used to be.

Speaker Change: And if you looked at it in.

Speaker Change: In conjunction with pre pandemic 18, 19, that's kind of where the number was.

Speaker Change: And we really outperformed in 'twenty, one 'twenty, two and we really underperformed in 'twenty three simple is that brands are good.

David E. Simon: Simple as that. Brands are good, and businesses have the right game plan, and we're moving. So that's Spark, Penny.

Speaker Change: Businesses are.

I have the right game plan and we're moving so.

So that spark penny any questions on that.

David E. Simon: Any questions on that? Then I'll move to your other questions. I mean, retail is very specific.

Speaker Change: Then I'll move to the your your other questions I mean.

Speaker Change: Retail is very specific so.

David E. Simon: So I think our retailers, they're generally, credit is in really good shape. There are always one or two or three tenants that we are somewhat nervous about, but they all understand the importance of bricks and mortar.

Speaker Change: I think our retailers the correct, they're generally at a credit is in really good shape, there's always one or two or three tenants.

Speaker Change: We are somewhat nervous about.

Speaker Change: But.

Speaker Change: They're there.

Speaker Change: They all understand the importance of bricks and mortar they're reinvesting in their stores.

David E. Simon: They're reinvesting in their stores. They're spending less on technology, which is good for us, and putting more money back in the stores. And they're open to buying, and their return on investment in stores is a proven financial model. They're doing that. So I'd say generally comfortable, very comfortable with all the retailers that we're doing business with. There'll always be a couple here and there that have to sort through their financial, no pronounical issues. Thanks for the color.

Speaker Change: Sending less on <unk>.

Speaker Change: Technology, which is good for us putting more money back in the stores and they are open to buy and their return on investment in stores is a proven financial model they're.

Speaker Change: They're doing that so I would say generally.

Speaker Change: Comfortable very comfortable with all the retailers that we're doing business with but will always be a couple of here and there that.

Speaker Change: Have absorbed through there.

Speaker Change: Financial.

Speaker Change: Financial issues.

Speaker Change: Great. Thanks for the color David.

David E. Simon: Sure, thank you. Our next question is from Hong Zhang with J.P. Morgan. Please proceed with your question. Yeah, hey, guys, I guess I was wondering if you could quantify the magnitude of the development drag this year. And also, it seems like you saw a very strong rent and occupancy growth and entitlement portfolio in the fourth quarter. What drove that, and what are your expectations for that portfolio this year as well?

David E. Simon: Sure. Thank you.

David E. Simon: Okay.

David E. Simon: Yeah.

David E. Simon: Our next question is from Hong Zhang with Jpmorgan. Please proceed with your question.

Hong Zhang: Yeah, Hey, guys I guess I was wondering if you could quantify the magnitude of the development drag this year.

Also it seems like you saw very strong rent and occupancy growth of apartment portfolio in the fourth quarter I was wondering what drove that and what are your expectations for that portfolio this year as well.

Hong Zhang: Uh, just on Talbot, I mean, are expectations for the Comp NOI roughly right on, you know, the, you know, um, in excess of 3%? What drove both Portfolios and Talbot really is, you know, supply and demand, healthy retail sales, operational excellence, all the things that I mentioned earlier. So, Listen, we're a big company. We did have some drag from redevelopment, but you know, it's not, you know, it's not an excuse. We don't worry about it.

Hong Zhang: Tucson tap it I mean are there our expectations on the comp NOI or Russell.

Speaker Change: Roughly right on.

Speaker Change: Got it.

In excess of 3%.

Speaker Change: What drove both.

Speaker Change: Our portfolio is really is <unk>.

Speaker Change: Supply and demand healthy retail sales.

Speaker Change: Operational excellence, all the things that I mentioned earlier so.

Speaker Change: Listen we're a big company, we did have some drag from redevelopment but.

Speaker Change: Got it.

It's not an excuse we don't worry about it.

David E. Simon: You know, and it's not such a big redevelopment, you know, when you, when you re-tenant a mall, you have downtime. And as I mentioned before, the better the tenant, the better the build-out, and in some cases, it takes six to nine months. And restaurants, you know, can be even close to a year.

Speaker Change: And it's not so much big redevelopment.

Speaker Change: When do you when you re tenant a mall.

Speaker Change: Have downtime and as I've mentioned this before.

Speaker Change:

Speaker Change: The bad or as it turned out the better the tenant that better that build out.

Speaker Change: And in some cases build out is six to nine months.

Speaker Change: And restaurants can be even close to a year.

David E. Simon: And as you know, we have, Our portfolio restaurant, new business is at least a hundred new restaurants over the next year or so. So, you know. It is a long, arduous process getting a permit.

And as you know we have.

Speaker Change: Our portfolio restaurant.

Speaker Change: New business is at least a 100, new restaurants over the next year or so.

Speaker Change: So.

Speaker Change: It.

It is a long arduous process getting permits.

David E. Simon: You know, I mean, we had a crazy thing in the Bay Area where they couldn't hook up the gas for a while. I encourage you to read the Supreme Court overruling of an ordinance in Berkeley that affected Palo Alto. Uh, you know, if you're really bored, you can read it. We finally got gas back into the center. And, you know, as you know, chefs like to cook with gas. So it was, you know, it cost us six months. And the delay, I mean, that's normal.

I mean, we had a crazy thing in the Bay area, where they couldnt hook up the gas for a while.

Speaker Change: Courage you to read the Supreme Court over rolling of in Oregon in Berkeley that affected Palo Alto.

If you're really bored you can read it.

Speaker Change: Finally got gas.

Speaker Change: Back into the center.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: As you know chefs like to Cook with gas.

Speaker Change: So it was it was.

Cost of six months.

Speaker Change: And the delay I mean, that's normal.

David E. Simon: But I'd say the bigger issue on, You know, I'm just... Is that so much redevelopment and really re-candidate? And I would say, by and large, if I had to make up a number, it costs us probably 10 to 20 cents a year in just downtime.

Speaker Change: But I'd say the bigger issue on.

Speaker Change: Yeah just.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Is that so much redevelopment is really re tenant and I would say.

Speaker Change: On the large if I had it.

Speaker Change: Makeup a number it cost us probably 10% to 20 a year.

Speaker Change: Oh just downtime.

David E. Simon: But that's a guess. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question is from Ki-Bin Kim with Turbo Security.

Speaker Change: But that's a guess.

Speaker Change: That said, that's a guess.

Speaker Change: Got it okay. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question is from Keygen Kim with <unk> Securities. Please proceed with your question.

Ki Bin Kim: Please proceed with your question. Thank you. First, your operating expenses were down in 4Q. I was curious what drove that and if that's sustainable. Yeah, it came as a surprise. Yeah, we did see some savings year over year. There was some seasonality to it, because weather was a little bit lighter.

Ki Bin Kim: Thank you just a couple questions first your operating expenses were down and <unk> I was just curious what drove that.

Ki Bin Kim: It is sustainable.

Ki Bin Kim: Yes, Kevin This is Bryan yes, we did see some savings a year over year. There was some seasonality to it whether it was a little bit later, but yes, we do expect it's sustainable.

Brian J. McDade: But yes, we do expect it's sustainable. Okay, and on the ABG partial sale, was that a down round valuation versus the $18 billion mark previously. Now. Thank you. Yeah, remember that that was the enterprise value, they had some debt. So that was an equity value. But it was it. It was it.

Ki Bin Kim: Okay and on the AVG partial sale was that a down round valuation.

Ki Bin Kim: Versus the $18 billion Mark previously.

Ki Bin Kim: No.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Yes, remember that that was the enterprise value. They have some debt so that was an equity value.

Speaker Change: But it was it was it <unk>.

David E. Simon: So when you say 18 billion, that's enterprise value, as opposed to equity value. Okay, thank you. Sure, no problem. Our next question is from Haendel Sainja with Mizzou Home Securities. Please proceed with your question. Hey, good evening out there. How are you? I'm doing great. I hope you're well too.

Speaker Change: Just when you say 18 billion enterprise value as opposed to equity value.

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Sure no problem.

Speaker Change: Our next question is from <unk> St.

Speaker Change: New home Securities. Please proceed with your question.

Speaker Change: Hey, good evening out there.

Speaker Change: So how are you.

Speaker Change: I'm doing great and I hope you will too.

Haendel Emmanuel St. Juste: The question I have is on your signed but not yet open pipeline. I think last quarter or you previously outlined that there are about 200 basis points of embedded occupancy from that signed but not yet open pipeline. So maybe you can give us an update on where that stands today and then also maybe what's embedded in the guide for bad debt and lease term fees this year. So Steinbrennan opens a little bit north of 200 basis points. We've been kind of holding that as we open stores and find new leases. So, we're hopefully steady around 200 basis points. We are assuming a normal level of bad debt, which is about 25 basis points of total revenue. Please turn, please. The normal rate of lease term fees, I think the answer is that the number for the year is about $30 million.

Speaker Change: Question I have is on your side, but not yet open pipeline I think last quarter or are you previously outlined about 200 basis points of embedded occupancy.

Speaker Change: From that side, but not yet open pipeline. So maybe you could give us some update on where that stands today and then also maybe what's embedded in the guide for bad debt and lease term fees. This year. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Sure.

Speaker Change: Signed but not opened a little bit north of 200 basis points, we've been kind of holding that as we open stores and signed new leases. So we're holding steady around 200 basis points.

Speaker Change: Assuming a normal level of bad debt, which is about 25 basis points of total revenue would be our expectation on that.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Please turn on fees.

Speaker Change: Normal normal rate of lease term fees I think the answer to the the number for the year, it's about 30 $30 million.

Brian J. McDade: Right. Thank you. Our next question is from Juan Sanabria with BMO Capital Markets. Please proceed with your question. Good evening. Just a quick one for me. Just curious about the current state of affairs with Jamestown and how that relationship is progressing. More talk about MIXTE.

Speaker Change: Yesterday.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Operator.

Quanson Abra: Our next question is from Quanson, Abra with BMO capital markets.

Quanson, Abra: Please proceed with your question.

Hi, Good evening just two.

A quick one for me just curious on.

The current state of affairs, with Jamestown and how that.

Quanson, Abra: Our relationship is progressing more talk about mixed use or just curious if theres anything yeah.

Juan Sanabria: So just curious if there's anything, in the works or in the planning stages that you're doing with them and how you're thinking about that, particular relationships. Thank you. Yes, thank you. So, We're, we haven't quite had a year under our belt, but I'm very pleased with the relationship and the partnership and, You know, we continue to look at opportunities both within our pipeline, and obviously what they do on behalf of investors. A lot of good feedback going both ways, and , , , , , , , , We're working on one project, I mean we have one development project where we're www.thevenusproject.com, The more of a corporate discussion than property level specifics other than one where we are partners on and going through a development process in that now in the Southeast. Thank you. George.

Speaker Change: Yeah in the works or in the planning stages that you're doing with them and how youre thinking about that.

Speaker Change: Particular relationship thank you.

Speaker Change: Yes. Thank you so.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: We're we haven't quite a year under our belt, but.

We're very pleased with the relationship and the partnership staying at.

Speaker Change: We continue to.

Speaker Change: Look at opportunities both.

Speaker Change: Within our pipeline.

And.

And obviously, what they're what they do on behalf of investors. So.

Speaker Change: A lot of good feedback.

Going both ways.

<unk>.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: No we haven't.

We're working on one project.

Speaker Change: I mean, we have we have one development project.

Speaker Change: Sure.

Speaker Change: Working on together, but other than that it's a.

Speaker Change: A lot of corporate.

Speaker Change: It's more strategic and more corporate.

Speaker Change: More of a corporate.

Speaker Change: Discussion than property level specifics other than one where we are partners.

Going through a development process in that now in the South East.

David E. Simon: There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to hand the floor back over to the management for closing. Okay, thank you, and obviously Tom and Brian are available. And we really appreciate everybody's participation, far too soon. This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change #100: Thank you.

Sure.

Speaker Change #101: There are no further questions at this time.

Speaker Change #101: Yeah.

I'd like to hand, the floor back over to management for closing comments.

Speaker Change #102: Okay. Thank you and.

Speaker Change #103: Obviously, Tom and Brian are available.

Speaker Change #104: And we really appreciate everybody's.

Speaker Change #105: Participation far too soon.

This concludes today's conference you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.