Q4 2023 Markel Corp Earnings Call

Good morning, and welcome to the Mark Hill Group fourth quarter 2023 conference call. All participants will be in listen only mode should you need assistance. Please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero.

After todays presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions to ask a question you May Press Star then one on your Touchtone phone to withdraw your question. Please press Star then one again.

During the call today, we may make forward looking statements within the meaning of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. They are based on current assumptions and opinions concerning a variety of known and unknown risks actual results may differ materially from those contained in or suggested by such forward looking statements.

Additional information about factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward looking statements.

It's included in the press release for our 2023 results as well as our most recent annual report on Form 10-K, and quarterly report on Form 10-Q, including under the caption Safe Harbor, and cautionary statement and risk factors.

We may also discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures during the call today, you may find the most directly comparable GAAP measures and a reconciliation to GAAP for these measures in the press release for our 2023 results.

The press release for 2023 results as well as our Form 10-K and Form 10-Q can be found on our website at www Dot M. K L group Dot com in the Investor Relations section.

Please note this event is being recorded.

I would now like to turn the conference over to Tom Gayner, Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead Sir.

Good morning, and welcome to the Markel Group 2023 yearend conference call. This is indeed, Tom Gayner and I serve as your CEO I'm joined today by Jeremy Noble the President of our insurance operations and Brian <unk>, Our Chief Financial Officer.

Speaker Change: Our plan. This morning is to make just a few comments and then open the floor for your questions.

Many years ago, I remember the great football coach John Mckay, saying the most exciting place you can be is in the locker room at halftime, when youre down 10 points I'll.

Speaker Change: Well make no mistake about it we're down 10 points, almost literally and figuratively from where we'd like to be in our insurance operations just like a good football team, though winning remains the goal, but we need to do better.

Speaker Change: We share your disappointment those results.

Speaker Change: We're also committed to taking the necessary actions to make them better.

Speaker Change: We're in the locker room right now we're adjusting our game plans, we're clear eyed about where we stand on the scoreboard and where we fell short.

Speaker Change: Taking active steps to improve our position.

Speaker Change: Jeremy will speak to our insurance Amgen in just a moment and his team continue to be hard at the task of understanding and quantify and areas of weakness as well as strengths and taking the necessary steps to improve results.

Jeremy A. Noble: We've made several significant management changes in the past year and taken actions such as withdrawing or reducing certain lines of business, reducing line sizes increasingly accountability modifying incentive compensation arrangements, increasing the scope and scale for some of the proven winners in our insurance operations and decreased.

Jeremy Noble: Or eliminating pockets with disappointing performance the.

Jeremy Noble: The transition year of 2023 produced results well below our expectations, but I am confident that we have recognized the pieces of our insurance engine or we needed to make changes and we're taking appropriate steps to make things better.

Jeremy Noble: Many areas in insurance produced wonderful results of which we should all be proud.

Jeremy Noble: Those results were offset and obscured by certain limited, but meaningful pockets I wonder performance.

Jeremy Noble: As such the aggregate combined ratio came in higher than our original plans.

Jeremy Noble: Fortunately, while we did experienced adverse development in the fourth quarter, we did indeed have positive development.

Jeremy Noble: Element for the full year.

Jeremy Noble: We always operate with a core belief that we will always set our reserves at levels that we believe will prove to be more likely redundant than deficient.

Jeremy Noble: I'm proud of our insurance team and that despite the difficult year, we continued to live up to the standard of integrity and discipline in setting loss reserves.

Jeremy Noble: Dunzo for years, we will continue to hold to that standard going forward.

Jeremy Noble: Jeremy will provide more details on the insurance results in towards 2023 and his comments.

Jeremy A. Noble: I also want to reinforce that the changes we made in 2023 and those that we continue to refine in 2024 and beyond will take time to show up in the financial statements.

Jeremy A. Noble: Every decision or action that we've taken insurance takes at least a year to fully flow through our financial statements. We look forward to reporting better results in future periods as the actions we have taken take hold.

Jeremy A. Noble: Turning to some more positive and fun things to talk about in 2023 weird excellent results in our ventures and investment operations.

Jeremy A. Noble: Recurring investment income from dividends and interest rose, 64% from 447 million to $735 million in 2023.

Jeremy A. Noble: Every engine at the Mark how group continued to produce cash and that cash along with maturities from our bond portfolio was invested in higher yielding fixed income instruments.

Jeremy A. Noble: Dividend income also rose due to net purchases in the equity portfolio and dividend increases.

Jeremy A. Noble: I think you can expect this positive trend to continue in 2024 with interest rates at current levels.

Jeremy A. Noble: We also repurchased 322000, Mark how group shares in 2023 for $445 million compared to 233000 shares for $291 million in 2022 share repurchases continue to be a high priority use of capital for us at premium prices.

Jeremy A. Noble: In our Markel ventures operations topline revenues grew 5% from $4 8 billion to just a smidge under $5 billion.

Jeremy A. Noble: More importantly, operating income rose, 35% from 325 million to $438 million and EBITDA rose, 24% from 506 million to $628 million.

We did not make any new platform acquisitions in 2023, we were able to add to our <unk> operations and increase our ownership stake in certain situations. We also completed an acquisition in Costa just after January one that will add to our 2024 results will remain disciplined and thoughtful in our capital allocation.

Jeremy A. Noble: And it is exciting to see our existing businesses find ways to grow.

Jeremy A. Noble: This is simply a phenomenal performance by the ventures team. It reflects the ongoing maturity and development of the Markel ventures businesses I could not be more proud of the team from top to bottom as they continue to produce excellent results and do so in the context of the values the markel style.

Jeremy A. Noble: In our investment operations, we purchased over $300 million net of publicly traded equities, which met our long standing four part investment test.

Jeremy A. Noble: We earned a total equity return of 21, 6% during the year and I'm happy with those results. They were produced with our discipline fully intact.

Jeremy A. Noble: Among other things the unrealized gain on our equity portfolio now stands at over $6 billion pre tax.

Jeremy A. Noble: Aware of many companies that enjoy positions such as that.

Jeremy A. Noble: Thank you all for your long standing support of Newmark Calgroup I share your disappointment at some of the results within our insurance engine and I am confident that we are taking appropriate and necessary steps to improve those results.

Jeremy A. Noble: Meanwhile, given our diversification of the <unk> system and our excellent results Adventures and positive investment results, we are making good economic progress the mark algorithms.

Jeremy A. Noble: While we continue to deemphasize book value per share as the sole described if economic progress around here, it's probably worth noting that book value per share went up over 17% in 2023.

And the last five years that it has increased to the compound annual growth rate of 11%. Despite what we've described as some of the most challenging circumstances, we've ever experienced and deeply optimistic that we are on track to make progress in 2024 and beyond with that I'll turn it over to Brian to update you on the 2023.

Jeremy A. Noble: And then to Jeremy for his review of our insurance operations. Following Jeremy's comments, we'll open the floor for questions Brian.

Brian: Thank you Tom and good morning, everyone I'm happy to be with you. All this morning to discuss our 2023 results as Tom mentioned 2023 illustrates the diversity of our three engine system, while our combined ratio results for the year is disappointing our ventures, an investment engines had terrific years with EBITDA from Markel ventures.

Brian: The value of our investments and our net investment income hitting record highs with that let's jump into the results starting out with our consolidated results. We reported net income to common shareholders of $2 billion into 2023 versus a net loss to common shareholders of $253 million in 2022.

Brian: With the change largely attributed to the year over year swing and our public equity portfolio valuation.

Brian: Comprehensive income to shareholders in 2023 was $2 3 billion versus a comprehensive loss to shareholders of $1 2 billion in 2022, driven most notably by the favorable swing in our fixed maturity and public equity portfolios.

Brian: Net cash provided by operating activities was $2 8 billion in 2023 versus $2 $7 billion in 2022, reflecting strong cash flows from each of our three operating engines.

Brian: Total shareholders' equity stood at $15 billion at the end of 2023 as Tom mentioned earlier, we repurchased $445 million of Markel group common stock this year under our outstanding share repurchase program compared to $291 million last year.

Brian: Turning over to our underwriting operations gross written premiums within our underwriting operations grew 4% to $10 3 billion in 2023 compared to $9 8 billion in 2022, reflecting new business and more favorable favorable rates across many product lines within our insurance segment.

Brian: Most notably our personal and property product lines.

Brian: We saw lower premium volume within select domestic professional liability and general liability product lines, where we adjusted writings in reaction to changes in market conditions and downward pressure on rates within certain classes in particular within public D&O.

Brian: Our consolidated combined ratio was 98% in 2023 versus 92% in 2022.

Brian: The increase in the combined ratio was primarily driven by higher Attritional loss ratios in 2023 on our general liability and professional liability product lines within our insurance segment in reaction to increasing estimates of future loss cost trends.

Brian: Prior year losses developed favorably by $39 million in 2023 versus $167 million in 2022, we experienced meaningful favorable loss reserve development across multiple product lines in 2023, most notably within our international professional liability products and our <unk>.

Brian: Mobile property and marine and energy product lines within the insurance segment. This favorable development was largely offset by adverse development on our general liability product lines across both underwriting segments and adverse develop and adverse development on a discontinued portion of our public any of the product line within our.

Brian: Our reinsurance segment, Jeremy will provide more insight on our loss development experienced during his comments.

Brian: Moving to our investment results, we reported net investment income of $735 million in 2023 versus $447 million last year, a 64% increase as we reinvested maturing securities in our fixed income portfolio at higher interest rates. The total size of our fixed income portfolio.

Brian: Also grew in alignment with our growth in reserves, given we generally match our insurance liabilities with highly rated fixed income securities a similar duration and currency.

Brian: The largest contributor to our increase in net investment income is related to our cash and cash equivalents, where we have increased our allocation to money market funds to take advantage of the current interest rate environment.

Brian: Net investment gains of $1 5 billion in 2023 reflect favorable market value movements driving a return of 21, 6% on our public equity portfolio. During the year. This compares to net investment losses of $1 6 billion in 2022, as you've heard us say many times.

Brian: Before we focus on long term investment performance expecting variability in the equity markets and the timing of investment gains and losses from period to period at the end of 2023, the fair value of our equity portfolio included pre tax cumulative unrealized holding gains of $6 1 billion.

Brian: Net unrealized investment gains included in other comprehensive income in 2023 or $307 million net of taxes compared to net unrealized investment losses of $1 2 billion net of taxes in 2022. These.

Brian: These movements correspond to changes in the fair value of our fixed maturity portfolio, resulting from changes in interest rates recall that we typically hold our bond investments until maturity and we generally expect unrealized holding gains and losses attributed to changes in interest rates to reverse in future periods as bonds mature.

Brian: The cumulative amount of pretax unrealized losses on our bond portfolio was $560 million as of the end of 2023.

Brian: We continue our long standing practice of investing in the highest quality fixed income securities as of December 31, 97% of our fixed maturity portfolio was rated double a or better and there are no current or expected credit losses within the portfolio.

Finally, moving over to our Markel ventures segment revenues from Markel ventures increased 5% to just under 5 billion for 2023 up from $4 $8 billion last year, reflecting higher prices and increased demand across several businesses, most notably within our construction services and equipment.

Manufacturing businesses.

Brian: EBITDA from Markel ventures increased 24% to a record high of $628 million in 2023 up from $506 million in 2022. The increase was driven by increases in most all of our products businesses within the consumer and building products equipment manufacturing and transportation.

Brian: Areas, driven by increased revenues and higher margins in 2023 versus 2022 as material and freight costs stabilize this year.

Brian: With that I'll turn it over to Jeremy to further discuss our insurance engine.

Thanks, Brian and good morning, everyone as Tom and Brian alluded to we experienced mixed results within our insurance operations in 2023, and overall 98 combined ratio for the year is disappointing and below our long term goals.

Jeremy A. Noble: I assume the reins of our insurance platform last year and the reality is that 2023 was not the year I anticipated I think it's important for me to take a few minutes and explain what's happened what we are doing about it as well as the highlight what is going well.

Jeremy A. Noble: Our result for the year was heavily influenced by the recent loss trends within select product lines within our North American casualty and professional liability books and to a lesser extent some tough lessons within our intellectual property CPI product line.

Jeremy A. Noble: Before I touch upon the adverse development this quarter, let me first highlight some of the best performing parts of our business.

Jeremy A. Noble: Our International Division had an outstanding year in 2023, achieving both double digit topline growth and a combined ratio below 90, our international teams portfolio management over the last few years is starting to show in the results 2023, we expanded our international operations into Australia and within Europe.

Jeremy A. Noble: We added to our product capabilities further diversifying and growing our platform, we see more opportunities to grow internationally in the years ahead.

Jeremy A. Noble: Both of our non underwriting businesses state National and Nephila had fantastic years state National continues to grow maintain exemplary discipline around reinsurer credit management and produce exceptional operating margin.

Jeremy A. Noble: They fill a demonstrated itself as a market leader delivering high quality data and insight driven portfolio construction, while deploying innovative strategies to maximize returns for investors through meaningful improvements in pricing adequacy in the property cat market to fill is well positioned going into 2024 and beyond.

Jeremy A. Noble: John.

Jeremy A. Noble: No some of how markel participates in the recent property market improvements occur outside of our reported combined ratio and are reflected in our results at nephila.

Jeremy A. Noble: Together, our ongoing fronting and ILS operations, excluding the impact of gains on the disposition of subsidiaries in both years contributed operating income before amortization of $146 million in 2023 up almost 40% from a year ago. We.

Jeremy A. Noble: We were excited to announce the formation of state National Global platform. During the quarter. We look forward to continued growth and profitability. In these business units. Further we will continue to deploy our world class insurance platforms across underwriting fronting and ILS to maximize returns for Markel group.

Jeremy A. Noble: While our global reinsurance operations reported a disappointing combined ratio for the year much of that related to adverse development within our reinsurance casualty lines and years before 2020.

Jeremy A. Noble: As discussed in recent quarters, we undertook meaningful changes regarding our appetite and approach to portfolio management. We are focused on improved long term profitability, we have a refreshed free insurance leadership team and portfolio and we feel very good about where we stand today in that business.

Operator: Good morning and welcome to the Markell Group fourth quarter 2023 conference call. All participants will be in listen-only mode.

Operator: Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on your touchtone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star, then 1 again.

Jeremy A. Noble: Finally, while our specialty division has faced challenges within portions of our casualty and professional liability lines meaningful segments of our specialty portfolio are performing well for example, our property and marine small commercial personal lines and surety product lines.

Operator: During the call today, we may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. They are based on current assumptions and opinions concerning a variety of known and unknown. Actual results may differ materially from those contained in or suggested by such forward-looking statements. Additional information about factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements is included in the press release for our 2023 results, as well as in our most recent annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly report on Form 10-Q, including under the captions Safe Harbor and Cautionary Statement and Risk. We may also discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures You may find the most directly comparable GAAP measures and a reconciliation to GAP for these measures in the press release for our 2023 results, as well as our Form 10-K and Form 10-Q, can be found on our website at www.mklgroup.com in the investor relations section. Please note this event is being held. I would now like to turn the conference over to Tom Gayner, Chief Executive Officer. Go ahead.

Jeremy A. Noble: Outstanding years, achieving double digit growth in combined ratios at or well below our 2023 targets together these product lines alone represent about $3 billion in annual gross written premium volume.

Jeremy A. Noble: The growth in these classes in several other segments of our business demonstrates our strong core these business units are well established and poised to produce solid underwriting results in the future.

Jeremy A. Noble: Turning back to our domestic casualty and professional liability insurance portfolios, we have been challenged by the market dynamics within the contractor segments of our brokerage execution umbrella in primary general liability lines in casualty and our risk managed <unk> and D&O lines and professional liability. This.

Jeremy A. Noble: This includes all of the factors driving up loss costs trends, we have discussed in previous quarters and are widely reported across the industry, including social and economic inflation litigation financing trends.

Jeremy A. Noble: We have meaningfully increased our prior accident year loss reserves in these specific lines throughout the latter half of 2022 and during 2023 to respond to these emerging loss trends. However, as the year progressed and the loss trends continued to deteriorate. It became clear that we needed to take a more focused review of our portfolios.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Good morning, and welcome to the Markel Group 2023 year-end conference call. This is indeed Tom Gayner, and I serve as your CEO. I'm joined today by Jeremy Noble, the president of our insurance operations, and Brian Costanzo, our chief financial officer. Our plan this morning is to make just a few comments and then open the floor to your questions. Many years ago, I remember the great football coach, John McKay, saying the most exciting place you can be is in the locker room at halftime when you're down 10 points.

To better understand the underlying dynamics and causes of the adverse loss development trends and doing so we would ensure we are maintaining healthy portfolios with sufficient rate adequacy as we move forward.

Jeremy A. Noble: Therefore in the fourth quarter, we conducted an extensive loss review of these lines and took meaningful action to put these prior year development trends behind us while we can never have absolute certainty that there will be no further development within these portfolios. We are confident that with the additional actions. We took in the quarter, we have created an even greater less.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Well, make no mistake about it; we're down 10 points, almost literally and figuratively, from where we'd like to be in our insurance operation. Just like a good football team, though, winning remains the goal, but we need to do better. We share your disappointment in those results, and we're also committed to taking the necessary actions to make them better. We're in the locker room right now, we're adjusting our game plan, we're clear-eyed about where we stand on the scoreboard and where we fell short. We're taking active steps to improve our position. Jeremy will speak to our insurance engine in just a moment, and his team continue to be hard at the task of understanding and quantifying areas of weakness as well as strengths and taking the necessary steps to improve results.

A lot of resiliency in our balance sheet consistent with our long held conservative reserving philosophy.

Jeremy A. Noble: Our overall casualty book is concentrated in construction business.

Jeremy A. Noble: Our review, we determined the construction defect claims within our casualty construction portfolio longer reporting tail than originally anticipated average claim severity also continues to increase in this line.

Jeremy A. Noble: Due to the various forms of inflation we mentioned.

Jeremy A. Noble: Consequently business is not as profitable as we thought when we originally wrote it.

Jeremy A. Noble: We also determined that there was a greater propensity within our excess and umbrella general liability and risk managed professional books of limits below our attachment point being eroded pushing more claims into our layers.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: We've made several significant management changes in the past year and taken actions such as withdrawing or reducing certain lines of business, reducing line sizes, increasing accountability, modifying incentive compensation arrangements, increasing the scope and scale for some of the proven winners in our insurance operations, and decreasing or eliminating pockets with disappointing performance. The transition year of 2023 produced results well below our expectations, but I am confident that we've recognized the parts of our insurance engine where we needed to make changes and that we're taking appropriate steps to make things better. Many areas in insurance produce wonderful results of which we should all be proud. Those results were offset and obscured by certain limited but meaningful pockets of underperformance. As such, the aggregate combined ratio came in higher than our original plan.

Jeremy A. Noble: Further reporting of these claims is lagged historical development patterns due to the effects of court closures and claim backlogs.

Jeremy A. Noble: Coming from the Covid pandemic aggressive tactics by the plaintiffs' bar and slow claim reporting trends considering these factors. We also added significant reserves to our casualty lines within our reinsurance segment and accident years 2019 at Pryor.

Jeremy A. Noble: These trends have been observable within our incurred loss development in accident years. Prior to 2020 since that time, we've achieved significant rate increases across many of these classes have taken a variety of underwriting actions. While these actions have significantly improved the profitability of these lines. We also added to reserves to our 2021 and 2000.

Jeremy A. Noble: 22 accident years in the fourth quarter. We did this recognizing that the difference between loss ratios prior to the pandemic and post pandemic and reached a differential that did not feel consistent with our conservative approach to reserving and the ULT that ultimate cost settled the claims on more recent years may prove to be higher than we initially anticipated.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Fortunately, while we did experience adverse developments in the fourth quarter, we did indeed have positive developments for the full year. We always operate with the core belief that we will always set our reserves at levels that we believe will prove to be more likely redundant than deficient. I'm proud of our insurance team and that, despite the difficult year, we continue to live up to the standard of integrity and discipline in setting loss reserves. We've done so for years.

Jeremy A. Noble: We had already adjusted our 2023 accident year Attritional loss ratios at the beginning of the year and reaction to concerns around increasing loss trends.

Jeremy A. Noble: Given the most recent accident years are green, we feel it best to ensure we are maintaining an appropriate margin of safety to reduce the likelihood of future adverse development.

Jeremy A. Noble: That being said there is a lot of uncertainty associated with reserving long tailed lines of business that won't be settled for many years to come most of our reserves and these product lines are held in IV and are particularly on the more recent years in fact as of year end 2023, 70% of our total reserves are in <unk> up from <unk>.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: We will continue to hold to that standard going forward. Jeremy will provide more details on the insurance results for 2023 in his comments. I also want to reinforce that the changes we made in 2023 and those that we continue to refine in 2024 and beyond will take time to show up in the financial statement. Every decision or action that we take in insurance takes at least a year to fully flow through our financial statement.

Jeremy A. Noble: 57% at the end of 2022, 63% five years ago.

Jeremy A. Noble: Spite these challenges it is important to note we did have favorable development for the full year of 2023, we continue to operate with a core belief that we should set reserves at a level that will prove more likely redundant than deficient we remain committed to the principle and hope you take some comfort in the fact that it remained true for the full year 2023, despite the challenges.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: We look forward to reporting better results in future periods as the actions we have taken take hold. Turning to some more positive and fun things to talk about, in 2023, we earned excellent results in our ventures and investment operations. Recurring investment income from dividends and interest rose 64% from $447 million to $735 million in 2023. Furthermore, every engine at the Markel Group continued to produce gas.

Jeremy A. Noble: Face.

Speaker Change: Now, let me touch on what we're doing going into 2024.

Speaker Change: We will carry our positive momentum into the year from our international state National and the fill of businesses and our specialty product lines. We're looking to use our power of the platform to create opportunities for growth.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: And that cash, along with maturities from our bond portfolio, was invested in higher-yielding fixed-income institutions. Dividend income also rose due to net purchases in the equity portfolio and dividend increases. I think you can expect this positive trend to continue in 2024 with interest rates at current levels. We also repurchased 322,000 Markel Group shares in 2023 for $445 million compared to 233,000 shares for $291 million in 2022. Share repurchases continue to be a high-priority use of capital for us at current prices.

Speaker Change: Guarding our casualty construction and risk managed professional liability lines. We are actively managing these portfolios. We've made changes to personnel, we will be exiting unprofitable classes in sub segments. We will reduce success of concentrations in order to ensure optimal portfolio balance and will be appropriately adjusting rates in terms of <unk>.

Speaker Change: Issues limits attachment points and other factors, we are confident in our ability to re underwrite these products back to levels of profitability, we aspire to.

Speaker Change: Done it before and we are determined to do it again, but these actions will take some time to earn their way through the results.

Speaker Change: Just a couple of comments on the pricing environment continues to be the case that each product area and region in the world has its own story, but broadly speaking rates are continuing to hold up fairly well by larger keeping up with and in some cases are slightly ahead of our view of trend.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: In our Mercall Ventures operations, top-line revenues grew 5% from $4.8 billion to just a smidge under $5 billion. More importantly, operating income rose 35% from $325 million to $438 million, and EBITDA rose 24% from $506 million to $628 million. We did not make any new platform acquisitions in 2023.

Speaker Change: Many products where rates were up 5% to 10%.

Speaker Change: Most casualty product lines, and particularly if rate adequacy is in question. We are seeing success pushing for rate within our property offerings, the pricing environment remains attractive and while we expect increases to moderate in 'twenty for the environment is constructive with healthy margins and anticipated returns on capital.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: We were able to add to our BSC operations and increase our ownership stake in certain situations. We also completed an acquisition at Costa just after January 1 that will add to our 2024 results. We remain disciplined and thoughtful in our capital allocation decisions, and it is exciting to see our existing businesses find ways to grow. This is simply a phenomenal performance by the Ventures team. It reflects the ongoing maturity and development of Mark L. Lynch's business. I could not be more proud of the team from top to bottom as they continue to produce excellent results and do so in the context of the values of the Markel Style.

Speaker Change: Professional liability remains challenging from a pricing standpoint, while the rate of pricing declines on public D&O business have moderated we remain very cautious with regards to current levels of rate adequacy and are managing our portfolio and exposures accordingly.

Speaker Change: Thank you and with that I will turn things back over to Tom. Thank you, Jeremy and Roger We will open the floor for questions if you'd be so kind.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Thank you we will now begin the question and answer session to ask a question you May Press Star then one on your Touchtone phone.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: In our investment operations, we purchased over $300 million net of publicly traded equities, which met our long-standing four-part investment strategy. We earned a total equity return of 21.6% during the year, and I'm happy with those results. They were produced with our discipline fully intact.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Using a speakerphone please pick up your handset before pressing the keys to withdraw your question. Please press Star then one again at this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: And we will take our first question from Charlie letter at Citi.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Among other things, the unrealized gain on our equity portfolio now stands at over $6 billion free of tax. I'm not aware of many companies that enjoy a position such as that. Thank you all for your longstanding support of the Markel Group. I share your disappointment at some of the results within our insurance engine, and I'm confident that we are taking appropriate and necessary steps to improve those results. Meanwhile, given our diversification of the three-engine system and our excellent results, adventures, and positive investment results, we are making good economic progress at the Markel Group. While we continue to de-emphasize book value per share as the sole metric of economic progress around here, it's probably worth noting that book value per share went up over 17% in 2023, and in the last five years, it has increased to a compound annual growth rate of I am deeply optimistic that we are on track to make progress in 2024 and beyond. With that, I'll turn it over to Brian to update you on the 2023 numbers and then to Jeremy for his review of our insurance operation. Following Jeremy's comments, we'll open the floor for questions, all right? Thank you, Tom. And good morning, everyone.

Charlie: Hey, good morning.

Charlie: Can you expand on some of the underwriting and incentive compensation changes, you mentioned youre, making and how long of a process do you anticipate that being.

Charlie: Is this something we should think about impacting your appetite or growth.

Speaker Change: Just given G Allen professional liability area, our largest products.

Speaker Change: Yes. Thanks for the question. So couple of things first off with regards to both our general liability and professional liability portfolios. There is a lot of business within those portfolios and actually some of the segments within them. If we look at casualty and you can think about environmental if you think about <unk>.

Speaker Change: <unk>, we think about our binding operations are performing very well.

Speaker Change: Professional if we think about commercial D&O and <unk>.

<unk> is performing very well financial advisors. So we have segments within those portfolios that we can continue to grow internationally as well on both the casualty and <unk>.

Speaker Change: Professional such pockets of the portfolio. We are growing we can continue to growth their meeting our profitability targets in the classes that are more challenged in that space, even in the fourth quarter alone, we shed over $100 million of premium in those classes.

Speaker Change: Still sort of grow grew our top line within the insurance results. So we are remixing the portfolio, we've seen and reported over the last over the course of 2023, a more moderated pace of topline growth and we're focused on bottomline profitability. So that may continue to be the case and we'll continue to remix the portfolio.

Brian Costanzo: I'm happy to be with you all this morning to discuss our 2023 results. As Tom mentioned, 2023 illustrated the diversity of our three engine system. While our combined ratio result for the year is disappointing, our ventures and investment engines had terrific years, with EBITDA from Markel Ventures, the value of our investments, and our net investment income hitting record highs. With that, let's jump into the results.

Speaker Change: But we've been doing some of that already.

Speaker Change: As far as changes in underwriting.

Brian Costanzo: Starting out with our consolidated results, we reported net income to common shareholders of $2 billion in 2023 versus a net loss to common shareholders of $253 million in 2022, with the change largely attributed to the year-over-year swing in our public equity portfolio valuation. Comprehensive income to shareholders in 2023 was $2.3 billion versus a comprehensive loss to shareholders of $1.2 billion in 2022, driven most notably by the favorable swings in our fixed maturity and public equity portfolio. Net cash provided by operating activities was $2.8 billion in 2023 versus $2.7 billion in 2022, reflecting strong cash flows from each of our three operating entities. Total shareholder's equity stood at $15 billion at the end of 2023.

Speaker Change: Practices, if you will we.

Speaker Change: We really are taking a very targeted.

Speaker Change: Within each of our product areas and it's a tailored approach with regards to what we're doing so.

Speaker Change: Some classes that all segments within our portfolio that we're going to exit our we have exited altogether.

Speaker Change: We've got areas, where it will take some classes of sub segments and reduce our writings.

Clearly, we'll push rate clearly, we will address wordings in terms and conditions. We're looking at attachment points. We're looking at limits profiles. We're looking at geography mix a lot of what we're doing is going to be about portfolio balance and overall portfolio management.

Speaker Change: So.

Speaker Change: A lot of what's happening across the insurance operation right now.

Speaker Change: Got it thanks, that's help.

Brian Costanzo: As Tom mentioned earlier, we repurchased $445 million of Markel Group Common Stock this year under our outstanding Share Repurchase Program compared to $291 million last year. Turning over to our underwriting operations, gross written premiums within our underwriting operations grew 4% to $10.3 billion in 2023, compared to $9.8 billion in 2022, reflecting new business and more favorable rates across many product lines within our insurance segment, most notably our personal and property product lines. We saw lower premium volume within select domestic professional liability and general liability product lines, where we adjusted writings in reaction to changes in market conditions and downward pressure on rates within certain classes, in particular within public D&L. Our consolidated combined ratio was 98% in 2023 versus 92% in 2022.

Speaker Change: I guess, just just given those mix changes.

Speaker Change: Should we expect the current accident year margins I guess.

Speaker Change: Look very different next year or I guess.

Speaker Change: Moved around each quarter.

Speaker Change: Should it should the remixing, a helper or kind of.

Speaker Change: More flattish or like.

Speaker Change: Like we've seen.

Speaker Change: Yes, more difficult to talk about our trend as Tom mentioned it takes a while for things to earn through in insurance right. So heading into the year. The portfolio from an earned premium basis is already sort of on on risk and working its way through so any actions that we have taken recently or we take here shortly.

Speaker Change: We will take a little while to earn through that being said everything that we are doing right. Now is focused on being accretive to earnings as we move forward. So I expect that over time, what we'll see is an improved profitability and improved.

Margins on the current portfolio.

Brian Costanzo: The increase in the combined ratio was primarily driven by higher attritional loss ratios in 2023 on our general liability and professional liability product lines within our insurance segment in reaction to increasing estimates of future loss cost trends. Prior year losses developed favorably by 39 million in 2023 versus 167 million in 2022. We experienced meaningful, favorable loss reserve development across multiple product lines in 2023, most notably within our international professional liability products and our global property, marine, and energy product lines within the insurance segment. However, this favorable development was largely offset by adverse development on our general liability product lines across both underwriting segments and adverse development on a discontinued portion of our public entity product line within our reinsurance segment. Jeremy will provide more insight on our loss development experience during his comments. Moving on, to our investment. We reported net investment income of $735 million in 2023 versus $447 million last year, a 64% increase, as we reinvested maturing securities in our fixed income portfolio at higher interest rates.

Speaker Change: Got it thanks, and just one quick one.

Speaker Change: I'm not the credit losses from the intellectual property exposure is that was that in the loss ratio or expense ratio in insurance.

Speaker Change: The loss ratio.

Speaker Change: Okay, Alright, thank you Patricia.

Speaker Change: We'll move next to Mark Hughes at <unk> Securities.

Mark Douglas Hughes: Yes, Thank you and good morning.

Mark Douglas Hughes: Is there a day an interim combined ratio target for 2024 that you might be willing to share understanding that it takes.

Mark Douglas Hughes: A while to fully implement.

Mark Douglas Hughes: And make progress.

Mark Douglas Hughes: As there are interim target.

Mark Douglas Hughes: Yes, Mark its Tom better.

Mark Douglas Hughes: [laughter].

Mark Douglas Hughes: Can you quantify a better.

Mark Douglas Hughes: Like better any numbers yet.

Mark Douglas Hughes: Let's get them better and then we'll talk about it.

Speaker Change: Yeah understood.

Speaker Change: And then you talk about the GL and you focus on the construction issue.

Speaker Change: Are you seeing some inflation or lengthen the tail outside of construction is it.

Speaker Change: The broader issue NGL.

Speaker Change: Well I think the part associated with the lengthening of the tail is a bit specific too.

Brian Costanzo: The total size of our fixed income portfolio also grew in alignment with our growth in reserves given that we generally match our insurance liabilities with highly rated fixed income securities of similar duration and currency. The largest contributor to our increase in net investment income is related to our cash and cash equivalents, where we have increased our allocation to money market funds to take advantage of the current interest rate environment. Net investment gains of $1.5 billion in 2023 reflect favorable market value movements, driving a return of 21.6% on our public equity portfolio during the year. This compares to net investment losses of $1.6 billion in 2022. As you've heard us say many times before, we focus on long-term investment performance, expecting variability in the equity markets and the timing of investment gains and losses from period to period. For example, at the end of 2023, the fair value of our equity portfolio included pre-tax cumulative unrealized holding gains of $6.1 billion. Net unrealized investment gains included in other comprehensive income in 2023 were $307 million net of taxes compared to net unrealized investment losses of $1.2 billion net of taxes in 2022.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Construction defect portion within our contractors on both the primary and excess basis. So that's a pretty specific point there with regards to the effects more widely around inflation via economic inflation or social inflation.

Speaker Change: That happens across particularly in U S lawns that happens in a number of areas as we've been talking about but again more pronounced in the general liability and professional liability lines that we've been speaking to over the course of the year.

Speaker Change: You mentioned that you're having success in pushing for rate where you need it.

Speaker Change: Great thing in those lines is accelerating do you see that across the board or <unk>.

Speaker Change: Maybe just within your own book.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: We'll see sort of obviously you have the year trends and develops and we very much have the intention in this.

Speaker Change: Pockets, particularly in the casualty that I'm mentioning.

Speaker Change: The rate is needed and.

Speaker Change: And we've had success in pushing rate I don't think we get all the way there overnight and I think it has to be something that is sustained.

Speaker Change: Also don't think that.

Speaker Change: That is unique to sort of Mark health circumstances, I think casualty is getting a lot of it.

Speaker Change: Coverage around the sort of trends in the pervasive nature of social inflation. Some of what we experienced ourselves I think is being shared within the year within the industry as such.

Speaker Change: I would expect that it will continue to be.

Speaker Change: We will continue to be the opportunity to push on rates and casualty lines in 'twenty four.

Brian Costanzo: These movements correspond to changes in the fair value of our fixed maturity portfolio resulting from changes in interest rates. Recall that we typically hold our bond investments until maturity and would generally expect unrealized holding gains and losses attributed to changes in interest rates to reverse in future periods as bonds mature. The cumulative amount of pre-tax unrealized losses on our bond portfolio was $560 million as of the end of 2023.

Speaker Change: And then when you.

Speaker Change: Think about some of these inflation factors to do.

Speaker Change: Maybe assume that they would get better.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Since they didn't you had some adverse or did they actually deteriorate just thinking about the.

Speaker Change: Kind of a broader reported inflation.

Supposedly that's key.

Speaker Change: But does that is that having a delayed impact on your own loss trends as you're seeing.

Brian Costanzo: We continue our longstanding practice of investing in the highest quality fixed income securities. As of December 31st, 97% of our fixed maturity portfolio was rated AA or better, and there are no current or expected credit losses within the portfolio. Finally, moving over to our MarkoVentures segment, revenues from MarkoVentures increased 5% to just under $5 billion in 2023, up from $4.8 billion last year, reflecting higher prices and increased demand across several businesses, most notably within our construction services and equipment manufacturing business. EBITDA from Markel Ventures increased 24% to a record high of $628 million in 2023, up from $506 million in 2022.

Yes, I mean, it look inflation is a component as a broad statement mark, but what I would suggest is that in the in the fourth quarter. We really took a far more extensive review right and we got our leaders across underwriting and claims and actuarial.

Speaker Change: We aided ourselves with third party experts are gaining insights and broader industry data for purposes of comparability and we did a much more data intensive exercise. So we are doing a deeper review into our underlying books and trends to get better insights around the causes of the adverse development. So.

Speaker Change: Is it kind of as example, Ram mentioned with SKU, we start segmenting out our contractors portions of our books. We then further segment construction defect claims trends in data from non construction defect, we looked at practice exposures versus project exposures looked a wording claims handling practices various assumptions, we're making so.

Jeremy A. Noble: The increase was driven by increases in most all of our product businesses within the consumer and building products, equipment manufacturing, and transportation areas, driven by increased revenues and higher margins in 2023 versus 2022, as material and freight costs stabilized this year. With that, I'll turn it over to Jeremy to further discuss our insurance engine. Thanks, Brian, and good morning everyone.

All of that to give you a sense of the depth and the robustness of our reviews, we have undoubtedly the rising level of cost to settle and adjust claims is linked to inflation in all its forms. So we're seeing that but there are other aspects that gave us.

Speaker Change: That led to some of the net result of our.

Speaker Change: Reserve adjustments, we made in the fourth quarter, but also I think importantly lead us to have a lot more confidence that we understand the recent experience and there were in a position now to put that adverse loss experience and trend behind us as we move forward.

Jeremy A. Noble: As Tom and Brian alluded to, we experienced mixed results within our insurance operations in 2023. An overall 98 combined ratio for the year is disappointing and below our long-term goals. I assumed the reins of our insurance platform last year, and the reality is that 2023 was not the year I anticipated. I think it's important for me to take a few minutes and explain what's happened, what we are doing about it, as well as to highlight what is going well. The result for the year was heavily influenced by the recent lost trends within select product lines within our North American Casualty and Professional Liability book and, to a lesser extent, tough lessons within our intellectual property CPI product line. Before I touch upon the adverse development this quarter, let me first highlight some of the best-performing parts of our business. Our international division had an outstanding year in 2020, achieving both double-digit top-line growth and a combined ratio below 90. Our international team's portfolio management over the last few years is starting to show in the results. In 2023, we expanded our international operations into Australia and within Europe.

Speaker Change: And let me jump in this is Tom and Mark and this is really for everybody I want to make sure we're not driving by looking at the Hood ornament and we keep our eyes on the horizon a bit here. So obviously, we're talking a lot about the insurance results.

Speaker Change: <unk> Group Conference call Mark <unk> group that is what you own shares in the <unk>.

Speaker Change: Book value per share, which again is <unk> by amortization and it's gained by the unrealized losses in the bond portfolio, both of which I would argue we're not real.

Speaker Change: Up 17% last year is up 11% over the last five years and the actions that I think if our roles were reversed and you were managing this business, where you would be directing capital when we've directed capital towards investments that show the fruits of that we've directed capital towards ventures, which show the fruits of that we've pared and pruned inside the insurance.

Speaker Change: Engine, and I think youll see the fruits of that in the fullness of time, and we are dividing that pie by fewer shares.

Speaker Change: Let's remain somewhat aware of the horizon as well as the Hood ornament.

Speaker Change: I appreciate that thank you.

Jeremy A. Noble: We added to our product capabilities, further diversifying and growing our platform; we see more opportunities to grow internationally in the years ahead. Both of our non-underwriting businesses, State National and Nafila, had fantastic results. State National continues to grow, maintain exemplary discipline around reinsurer credit management, and produce exceptional operating margins. Phil has demonstrated itself as a market leader, delivering high-quality data and insight-driven portfolio construction while deploying innovative strategies to maximize returns for investors. Through meaningful improvements in pricing adequacy in the property cap market, Nafila is well positioned going into 2024 and beyond. Note some of how Markel participates in the recent property market improvements occurs outside of our reported combined ratio and is reflected in our results at Nafila. Together, our ongoing fronting and ILS operations, excluding the impacts of gains on the disposition of subsidiaries, contributed to operating income before amortization of $146 million in 2020, up almost 40% from a year ago. We were excited to announce the formation of the State National Global Platform during the quarter.

Speaker Change: We will take our next question from Andrew Anderson at Jefferies.

Andrew Anderson: Good morning could you provide a bit more color onto what loss trend you're booking too in some of these casualty lines and if that's going to be higher in 2024 versus how 2023 Shaked out I'm just trying to think about the confidence and the more recent accident years, which also faced some pressure in the opportunity for growth here.

Sure So I mean.

Andrew Anderson: As far as sort of trend assumptions heading into 'twenty four.

Andrew Anderson: I think if anything trend either holds up or moderate slightly relative to 'twenty three assumptions.

Andrew Anderson: We have we have a very broad portfolio of 100 major product lines rewrites lots of different segments and classes all across the globe.

Andrew Anderson: Theres no sort of simple way.

Andrew Anderson: To break sort of the trend assumptions down but.

Andrew Anderson: As you would expect in.

Andrew Anderson: And longer tail casualty driven oriented lines.

Andrew Anderson: Five 6% to 8% is not an uncommon trend assumption and in each of the cases, we look at our portfolios with regards to rate adequacy, we look at the pricing that we're obtaining relative to that trend and.

Andrew Anderson: And we at a level that into our into our loss selections.

Jeremy A. Noble: We look forward to continued growth and profitability in these businesses. Furthermore, we will continue to deploy our world-class insurance platforms across underwriting, fronting, and ILS to maximize returns for Markel Group. While our global reinsurance operations reported a disappointing combined ratio for the year, much of that related to adverse developments within our reinsurance casualty lines in the years before 2020. As discussed in recent quarters, we undertook meaningful changes regarding our appetite and approach to portfolio management. We are focused on improved long-term profitability. We have a refreshed free insurance leadership team and portfolio, and we feel very good about where we stand today in that business.

Speaker Change: Okay and just.

Speaker Change: Backing up on the reserves.

Speaker Change: The charge fourth quarter of last year movement on nine months 23.

Speaker Change: Another charge fourth quarter of this year has the team evaluated doing an LPTA and the path to create to create some finality to this.

Speaker Change: We have not we have not done any anything with regards to an LPG or adverse development covers.

I'll comment more broadly than that.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Maybe a few more questions here.

Speaker Change: And litigation finance in casualty lines, and how it's affected the loss trends, where you raise your reserves.

Speaker Change: You did kind of just mentioned, perhaps trend moderates slightly in 'twenty four but are you kind of thinking the litigation finance environment.

Speaker Change: Those down in the coming years or do you see that accelerating.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Yes, generally generally speaking I think.

Jeremy A. Noble: Finally, while our Specialty Division has faced challenges within portions of our casualty and professional liability business, meaningful segments of our specialty portfolio are performing well. For example, our property in marine, small commercial, personal lines, and surety product lines all had outstanding years, achieving double-digit growth and combined ratios at or well below our 2023 target. Together, these product lines alone represent about $3 billion in annual gross written premium losses.

A lot of what we've been talking about it and our challenge with regards to recent social inflation trends. So the cost to adjust and settle claims prevalence litigation funding the aggressiveness of the plant as far as the sentiment of juries.

Speaker Change: All those sorts of things I don't necessarily have a reason to believe that that abates anytime in the near term. So we have to do is appropriately priced our portfolio and ensure that we've got enough diversification and resiliency in the portfolio is to stay a step ahead and thats part of what.

Speaker Change: <unk> mentioning the fact that we've taken a more cautious view on the more recent years to build and to attempt to build in a greater margin of safety around those concerns in line with our core philosophy of being more likely redundant than deficient. So we'll.

Jeremy A. Noble: The growth in these classes and several other segments of our business demonstrates our strong core. These business units are well-established and poised to produce solid underwriting results in the future. Turning back to our domestic casualty and professional liability insurance portfolios, we have been challenged by the market dynamics within the contractor segments of our brokerage access and umbrella and primary general liability lines and casualties, as well as our risk-managed E&O and D&O lines in professional liability. This includes all of the factors driving up loss costs trends that we have discussed in previous quarters and are widely reported across the industry, including social and economic inflation and litigation financing trends. We have meaningfully increased our prior accident-to-error loss reserves in these specific lines throughout the latter half of 2022 and during 2023 to respond to these emerging loss trends.

Speaker Change: We will see how that plays out but we have to we have to be cautious in the sort of claims and litigation environment.

Speaker Change: Okay, and maybe what's a good way to think about the <unk>.

Speaker Change: Reserves and the charges over the last couple of years has this the bulk of this spend on discontinued business for the insurance segment or is it kind of a mix of continuing but we're making changes to attachments pricing et cetera.

Speaker Change: It's a mix it's a mix. So we had an example within reinsurance that Brian alluded to.

Speaker Change: It's associated with public entity business that we wrote in 2019 and prior that we discontinued at that time.

Speaker Change: We have aspects of our portfolio that are ongoing that we're trimming and rehabbing.

Jeremy A. Noble: However, as the year progressed and the loss trends continued to deteriorate, it became clear that we needed to take a more focused review of our portfolios to better understand the underlying dynamics and causes of the adverse loss development trend. In doing so, we would ensure that we are maintaining healthy portfolios with sufficient rate adequacy as we move forward. Therefore, in the fourth quarter, we conducted an extensive loss review of these lines and took meaningful action to put these prior year development trends behind us. While we can never have absolute certainty that there will be no further development within these portfolios, we are confident that with the additional actions we took in the quarter, we have created an even greater level of resiliency on our balance sheet, consistent with our long-held conservative reserving philosophy. Our overall casualty book is concentrated in Construction.

Speaker Change: Trying to get right, we've got assets within the portfolio that we're exiting either classes or subsegment. So I mean, it's a bit of everything.

Cross the portfolio.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: We'll move next to Scott <unk> at RBC.

Scott: Yes, good morning, just to follow up a little bit on that some of the classes you've exited so far I'm just curious.

Scott: How much of that you think youll be able to fix with with rate with higher rates and improving terms and conditions versus actually exiting or reducing exposure a lot I don't know if you.

Scott: Can it get.

Any color or any sense on that.

<unk>.

Scott: During higher rates, and changing terms and conditions versus having to.

Zero power back significantly yes.

Scott: I can't I can't put any specifics or quantification around that I gave you. An example earlier.

Jeremy A. Noble: Through our review, we determined that construction defect claims within our casualty construction portfolio have a longer reporting tail than originally anticipated. Average claim severity also continues to increase in this line, as do the various forms of inflation we mentioned. Consequently, the business is not as profitable as we thought when we originally wrote it. We also determined that there was a greater propensity within our access and umbrella general liability and risk-managed E&O professional books of limits below our attachment point being eroded, pushing more claims into our layers. Furthermore, reporting of these claims has lagged historical development patterns due to the effects of court closures and claim backlog stemming from the COVID pandemic, aggressive tactics by the plaintiff's bar, and slow claim reporting.

<unk> suggested in the fourth quarter and some of the lines.

Scott: <unk> had a larger.

Scott: Sort of a product line level that we shed over $100 million of premium in those lines that were more challenged where we were concerned about rate adequacy and obviously, we grew more than that across everything else in the portfolio.

Scott: We will continue to do that so.

Scott: Yes.

Scott: We are focused within every facet of our insurance operations of ensuring that we are have a healthy portfolio that's rate adequate and that we're earning appropriate returns on capital and I will report to you each and every 90 days.

Scott: We're making progress in that in that space, but I can't sort of Simplistically say.

Jeremy A. Noble: Considering these factors, we also added significant reserves to our casualty lines within our reinsurance segment in action in the years 2019 and prior. These trends have been observable within our incurred loss development in accident years prior to 2020. Since that time, we've achieved significant rate increases across many of these classes and have taken a variety of underwriting actions. While these actions have significantly improved the profitability of these lines, we also added reserves to our 2021 and 2022 in the fourth quarter. We did this recognizing that the difference between loss ratios prior to the pandemic and post the pandemic had reached a differential that did not feel consistent with our conservative approach to reserving, and the ultimate cost to settle the claims in more recent years may prove to be higher than we initially anticipated.

Scott: How it will breakdown.

Scott: We're working hard.

Speaker Change: That's fair.

Speaker Change: And then on the insurance side, you called out personal lines and property being being growth area can you can you talk about the.

Speaker Change: Kind of what the growth rates there were yes.

Speaker Change: Last couple of quarters, and particularly Q4 and weather.

Speaker Change: Is that are you writing that business, mostly E&S and admitted where youre seeing the opportunity or is it a mix.

Speaker Change: It is it is a mix across the various.

Speaker Change: Segments of our portfolio, where we're growing so I'd mentioned personal lines I mentioned property inland marine programs business, our binding operations workers' comp.

Speaker Change: <unk> a number of lines in our professional space. So you've got U S. You've got international you've got you've.

Speaker Change: <unk> got alternative retail and wholesale or admitted and non admitted business.

Speaker Change: It's a mix, but in the spaces like for example property marine personal lines those will be more weighted towards E&S binding more weighted towards E&S.

Jeremy A. Noble: We had already adjusted our 2023 accident year attritional loss ratios at the beginning of the year in reaction to concerns around increasing loss trends. Given the most recent accident years are green, we feel it is best to ensure we are maintaining an appropriate margin of safety to reduce the likelihood of future adverse developments. That being said, There's a lot of uncertainty associated with reserving long-tailed lines that won't be settled for many years to come.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: And then.

Speaker Change: Just one for Tom here.

Speaker Change: Markel ventures that you mentioned the acquisition.

Speaker Change: <unk> made one in January so that's that's definitely nice to see can you talk about the pipeline there for Markel ventures.

Speaker Change: Whether you expect to see more deal activity for sure.

Jeremy A. Noble: Most of our reserves in these product lines are held in IB&R, particularly the more recent ones. In fact, as of year-end 2023, 70% of our total reserves are in IB&R, up from 67% at the end of 2022 and 63% five years ago. Despite these challenges, it's important to note we did have favorable development for the full year of 2023. We continue to operate with the core belief that we should set reserves at a level that will prove more likely to be redundant than deficient.

Speaker Change: I would guess since the deal activity last year was zero the odds of being more than that are pretty good.

Speaker Change: Our phone is starting to ramp I mean, there have been some disruptions in financial markets from time to time. The fact that interest rates exist changes the financing market for for other folks out there. So we're getting more inbound phone calls than we did.

Speaker Change: Anytime in the last 12 or 18 months.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks.

Speaker Change: Thanks.

Speaker Change: Again, if you have a question. Please press Star then one on your telephone keypad will move next to Josh Hill at Cap Trust financial advisors.

Jeremy A. Noble: We remain committed to the principle and hope you take some comfort in the fact that it remained true for the full year of 2023 despite the challenges we faced. Now, let me touch on what we're doing going into 2024. We will carry our positive momentum into the year from our international, state, national, and affiliate businesses and our specialty product line. We are looking to use the power of the platform to create opportunities for growth. Regarding our casualty construction and risk management professional liability lines, we are actively managing these portfolios, and we've made changes to personnel. We will be exiting unprofitable classes and subsegments.

Josh Hill: Good morning. Thank you for taking my call first off great job with ventures and investments just a quick question on insurance.

Josh Hill: Curious to get your opinion on whether or not the target laid out in the 2020 shareholder letter of 10, five one so that $10 billion target for premiums if any of that target is kind of what's coming back to <unk>, causing some of these issues.

Josh Hill: Thanks.

Speaker Change: Yes. Thanks for the question I don't I don't believe that that's the case.

Speaker Change: When we talked about 10, five one as an idea within our global insurance operations roughly to suggest what would need to be true. If we were to aspire to double the size of our insurance platform at that time across all facets and do so at a level that was contributing meaningfully to the.

Jeremy A. Noble: We will reduce excessive concentrations in order to ensure our optimal portfolio balance, and will be appropriately adjusting rates, terms, and conditions, limits, attachment points, and other factors. We are confident in our ability to re-underwrite these products back to levels of profitability we aspire to. We've done it before, and we are determined to do it again, but these actions will take some time to earn their way through the results. Just a couple of comments on the price.

To the to the bottom line profit.

Speaker Change: Adjusted growth rate, there really isn't different than the growth rate that we had experienced over the past several decades.

Speaker Change: As an organization so.

Speaker Change: I don't think that that put it unhealthy expectation around growth.

Jeremy A. Noble: It continues to be the case that each product area and region of the world has its own story. Broadly speaking, rates are continuing to hold up fairly well and are, by and large, keeping up with, and in some cases are slightly ahead of, our view of trends.

Speaker Change: I do think linked to that we said, what we need to be true with regards to to product to talent technology to data to geography.

Speaker Change: Various offerings, so our trading relationships. So there are a lot of aspects of what would need to be true to be that sort of insurance organization and we continue to work very hard at building out the breadth of specialization and diversification across the platform.

Jeremy A. Noble: We have many products where rates are up 5% to 10%. For most casualty product lines, and particularly if rate adequacy is in question, we are seeing success pushing for rates. Within our property offerings, the pricing environment remains attractive.

Speaker Change: I think you will have gotten a sense from our call today, there's a lot of things that we've done and we've done very well. Unfortunately, there are some things that have come back over the courses of 10 years I mean, a lot of the 19 in Pryor and portfolio already existed prior to.

Jeremy A. Noble: And while we expect increases to moderate in 2024, the environment is constructive with healthy margins and anticipated returns on capital, professional liability remains challenging from a price perspective. While the rate of pricing declines on public D&O business has moderated, we remain very cautious with regard to current levels of rate adequacy and are managing our portfolio and exposures accordingly. Thank you. And with that, I will turn things back over to Tom. Thank you, Jeremy.

Speaker Change: To us, making reference to <unk> 501 objective.

Speaker Change: Could not have contemplated at that time a pandemic.

Speaker Change: And how sort of inflation.

Speaker Change: Would occur on the inflation side, both social economic so what's moved out a little bit since we had that target, but our ideas around what we aspire to be and being ambitious as an organization to be better for our customers to be better for our employees to create a winning outcome for our shareholders. Those are deals remain.

Operator: And Audra, we will open the floor for questions if you'd be so kind. Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on your touch-tone phone.

Speaker Change: And let me jump in here. This is Tom I want to make one factual statement about that nobody's incentive compensation was tied to the 10th nobody not mind, Jeremy it's not anybody in the in the organization every bit of incentive compensation is tied to profitability over time rather than <unk>.

Operator: If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing star. To withdraw your question, please press star then 1. Next time, we'll pause momentarily to assemble our equipment, and we'll take our first question from Charlie Letter. Good morning. Can you expand on some of the underwriting and incentive compensation changes you mentioned you're making and how long of a process you anticipate that being? Is this something we should think about impacting your appetite or growth, just given GDL and professional liability? Yeah, thanks for the question. There are a couple of things. First off, with regard to both our general liability and professional liability portfolios, there's a lot of business within those portfolios. And actually, some of the segments within them, if we look at casualty, and we think about environmental, and we think about healthcare, and we think about our binding operations, they're performing very well. In professional, if we think about commercial, D&O and E&O are performing very well. Financial advisors.

Speaker Change: Growth without profitability, so I know theres been some heartburn in the investment community about that we hear you.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: I do wanted to at least state. The fact that no incentive compensation was designed to do the 10.

Speaker Change: Very good well I appreciate the candor and look forward to many more years to keep up keep it going.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: We will go next to Joe asked this at Banyan capital.

Joe: Hey, there thanks for taking the question.

Joe: One is for Tom a great attribute of Markel as its optionality and capital allocation.

Joe: So given the performance in insurance, but the strength in ventures, how are you thinking about investing the incremental dollar you prefer an investment in ventures right now until you can get insurance performing better. Thank you.

Jeremy A. Noble: So we have segments within those portfolios that we can continue to grow on internationally as well as on both the casualty and professional side. So pockets of the portfolio are growing, we can continue to grow, they're meeting our profitability targets. In the classes that are more challenged in that space, even in the fourth quarter alone, we shed over $100 million of premium in those classes and still sort of grew our top line within the insurance results.

Speaker Change: Sure I appreciate the question and I do think that speaks to one of the underlying strengths of Markel and again.

Speaker Change: Everybody is.

Working hard and gnashing of teeth going on about some stuff.

Speaker Change: Economically it was a pretty good year for markup for exactly the reasons you speak of every incremental dollar is invested with the thought of where will at best be treated.

Jeremy A. Noble: So we are remixing the portfolio. We've seen and reported over the last few years, a more moderated pace of top-line growth, and we're focused on bottom-line profitability. So that may continue to be the case, and we'll continue to remix the portfolio. But we've been doing some of that already.

Speaker Change: We get the highest return so we look at insurance, we look at investments, we look at Markel ventures, and we start with a blank sheet of paper.

Speaker Change: And we also look at our own shares. We said we are aware that capital we treated best and that's consistently been the case and we will continue to be that way.

Jeremy A. Noble: As far as changes in underwriting practices, you know, practices, if you will, we really are taking a very targeted view within each of our product areas. And it's a tailored approach with regard to what we're doing. So we have some classes that take in segments within our portfolios that we're going to exit, or we have exited altogether. We've got areas where we'll take subclasses or subsegments and reduce our writing.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: I appreciate it.

Speaker Change: We will take a follow up from Charlie letter letter at Citi.

Charlie: Hey, Thanks, just one follow up.

Charlie: Since you took the charges on the reinsurance side tutor to reflect your insurance experience.

Charlie: Could you talk about your conversations with your CNS.

Charlie: They reflected some of these changes or do you anticipate that being a story for them or maybe the industry near.

Charlie: Near term.

Speaker Change: Yes, that's a good that's a good point Charles so yes.

Jeremy A. Noble: Clearly, we'll push the rate. Clearly, we'll address wordings and terms and conditions. We're looking at attachment points.

In the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: Increase in reserves.

Speaker Change: Particularly.

Jeremy A. Noble: We're looking at limit profiles. We're looking at geography mix. A lot of what we're doing is going to be about portfolio balance and overall portfolio management. So, a lot that's happening across the insurance operation right now. Got it, thanks, that's helpful. I guess just given those mixed changes, should we expect the current accident year margins, I guess, to kind of look very different next year, or I guess they've moved around each quarter? Should the remixing be a help or kind of more flattish?

Charles: The general liability space within our reinsurance segment was not driven by underlying seat and reporting and incurred activity.

Charles: But more so.

Charles: In part because of the findings and observations that we had within our insurance book and in contemplation of the risk that some of those things could exist within the underlying seating.

Charles: We are reporting an incurred loss activity.

Charles: So again I would say that was kind of a cautious approach to ensure that we are building an appropriate margins of safety is the more likely were done at the indication within the reinsurance book versus specific claims reporting activity in the period.

Jeremy A. Noble: Yeah, more difficult to talk about a trend. As Tom mentioned, you know, it takes a while for things to earn through in insurance, right? So heading into a year, the portfolio from an earned premium basis is already sort of at risk and working its way through. So any actions that we have taken recently or that we take here shortly, you know, will take a little while to earn through. That being said, everything that we are doing right now is focused on being accretive to earnings as we move forward. So I expect that, over time, what we'll see is improved profitability and improved margins on the current portfolio. Got it, thanks. Just one quick one.

Speaker Change: Got it thank you.

Speaker Change: And we'll move next to Andrew Anderson at Jefferies.

Andrew Anderson: Hey, Thanks for taking the follow up on the insurance underlying loss ratio.

Andrew Anderson: Bit of noise this year between us to some of the collateral protection I think in the first quarter you had moved some fixed related to bank activity.

Andrew Anderson: If I put it all together relative to the reported underlying of 64, perhaps.

Andrew Anderson: Two points of one time noise is that a fair way to think about it.

Speaker Change: Yes, I think youre thinking about it right there was definitely some noise like like you said it.

Jeremy A. Noble: On the credit losses from the intellectual property exposure, is that in the loss ratio or for the expense? That's in the latter, during the administration. We'll move next to Mark Hughes at Truist. Yeah, thank you. Good morning. Is there, say, an interim combined ratio target for 2024 that you might be willing to share, understanding that it takes a while to fully implement these steps and make progress, but is there an interim target? Yes, Mark, it's Tom.

Speaker Change: Intellectual property is CPI and credit losses, we experienced there.

Speaker Change: Pacific banking losses, we recognized in the first quarter.

Those sort of one offs did contribute.

Speaker Change: Between one to two points to the to that to that trend and then clearly the which we talked about throughout the year higher attritional loss ratios across the cash the general liability and professional liability lines being another driver.

Speaker Change: And I suppose business being written for the longer tail lines right now is already reflecting your increase view of loss trend for 2024.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Better, and others. Thank you. Can you quantify it better? Yeah. I like it better.

Speaker Change: That's right.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Let's get it better, and then we'll talk about it. Yeah, understood. And then you talk about GL, and are you seeing some inflation or lengthening of the tail outside of construction? Is it a broader issue in GL? Well, I think that the part associated with the lengthening of the tail is a bit specific to the construction defect portion within our contractors on both the primary and excess basis.

Speaker Change: This concludes our question and answer session I would like to turn the conference back over to Tom Gayner for any closing remarks. Thank.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Thank you very much we appreciate your support and look forward to checking in with you in 90 days if you will.

Speaker Change: The conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation you may now disconnect.

Jeremy A. Noble: So, that's a pretty specific point there. With regard to the effects more widely around inflation, be it economic inflation or social inflation, that happens, you know, across, particularly in U.S. lines. That happens in a number of areas, as we've been talking about, but again, more pronounced in the general liability and professional liability lines that we've been speaking about over the course of the year. You mentioned you're having success in pushing for rates where you need them. Is that to say pricing in those lines is accelerating? Do you see that across the board, or maybe just within your own?

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Jeremy A. Noble: We'll see sort of obviously how the year trends and develops, and we very much have the intention in those pockets, particularly in the casualty that I'm mentioning, that rate is needed, and we've had success in pushing it. I don't think we get all the way there overnight, and I think it has to be something that is sustained. I also don't think that that is unique to the Markel circumstances.

Speaker Change: [music].

Speaker Change: Yes.

Jeremy A. Noble: I think casualty is getting a lot of coverage around the sort of trends and the pervasive nature of social inflation. Some of what we've experienced ourselves, I think is being shared within the industry. So I would expect that it will continue to be an opportunity to push on rates within casualty lines. 24.

Jeremy A. Noble: Yeah. And then when you think about some of these inflation factors, did you maybe assume that they would get better, and since they didn't, you had some adverse, or did they actually deteriorate? They're just thinking about the kind of broader reported inflation. You know, supposedly that's key.

Jeremy A. Noble: But is that having a delayed impact on your own loss trends, as you're seeing? Yeah, I mean, look, inflation is a component as a broad statement, Mark, but what I would suggest is that in the fourth quarter, we really took a far more extensive review, right? And we got our leaders across underwriting, claims, and actuarial. We aided ourselves with third-party experts gaining insights and broader industry data for purposes of comparability, and we did a much more data-intensive exercise.

Jeremy A. Noble: So, we were doing a deeper review into our underlying books and trends to get better insights around the causes of the adverse development. As a kind of example, as I mentioned, we start by segmenting out our contractors' portions of our books. We then further segment construction defect claims, trends, and data from non-construction defects. We looked at practice exposures versus project exposures.

Jeremy A. Noble: We looked at wording, claims handling practices, and various assumptions we were making. So, all that to give you a sense of the depth and the robustness of the review that we had. Undoubtedly, the rising level of costs to settle and adjust claims is linked to inflation in all its forms.

Jeremy A. Noble: So, we're seeing that. But there are other aspects that give us... that led to some of the reserve adjustments we made in the fourth quarter but also, I think importantly, led us to have a lot more confidence that we understand the recent experience and that we're in a position now to put that adverse loss experience and trend behind us as we move forward.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: This is Tom and Mark, and this is really for everybody. I want to make sure we're not driving by looking at the hood ornament, and we keep our eyes on the horizon a bit here. So, obviously, we're talking a lot about the insurance results because this is a Markel Group conference call. It's a Markel Group. That is what you own shares in. And the book value per share, which is dinged by amortization, and it's dinged by the unrealized losses in the bond portfolio, both of which I would argue are not real.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: It was up 17% last year. It's up 11% over the last five years. And the actions that I think, if our roles were reversed, and you were managing this business, where you would be directing capital, when we've directed capital towards investments that show the fruits of that, we've directed capital towards ventures that show the fruits of that, we've paired and pruned inside the insurance engine, and I think you'll see the fruits of that in the fullness of time, and we're dividing that pie by So, let's remain somewhat aware of the horizon as well as the hood ornament.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Appreciate that. We'll take our next question from Andrew Anderson. Good morning.

Jeremy A. Noble: Could you provide a bit more color on what loss trend you're booking on some of these casualty lines and if that's going to be higher in 2024 versus how 2023 shaked out? I'm just trying to think about confidence and the more recent accident years, which also face some pressure and the opportunity for growth here.

Jeremy A. Noble: So, I mean, as far as sort of trend assumptions heading into 24, I think if anything, trend either holds up or moderates slightly relative to 23 assumptions. You know, we have a very broad portfolio, over 100 major product lines, rewrites, lots of different segments and classes all across the globe, so there's no sort of simple way to break down the trend assumptions. But in, as you'd expect, in longer-tail, cash-driven oriented lines, 5%, 6% to 8% is not an uncommon trend assumption. And in each of the cases, we look at our portfolios with regard to rate adequacy. We look at the pricing that we're obtaining relative to that trend, and we factor that into our loss selection.

Jeremy A. Noble: Okay, and just backing up on the reserves, you know, at a charged fourth quarter of last year, movement on nine months, 23, another charged fourth quarter of this year. Has the team evaluated doing an LPT in the past to create some finality to this? We have not, well, we have not done anything with regard to the LPT or adverse development coverage, and I won't sort of comment more broadly than that.

Jeremy A. Noble: Okay, and maybe I have a few more questions here. You mentioned litigation finance and casualty lines and how they've affected the loss trends where you raise your reserves. You did kind of just mention perhaps the trend moderates slightly in 24, but are you kind of thinking the litigation finance environment flows down in the coming years or do you see that accelerating? You know, generally speaking, I think a lot of what we've been talking about in our challenge with regard to recent social inflation trends, so the cost to adjust and settle claims, prevalence of litigation funding, the aggressiveness of the plaintiffs' bar, the sentiment of juries, all those sorts of things. I don't necessarily have a reason to believe that that will abate any time in the near term.

Jeremy A. Noble: So what we have to do is appropriately price our portfolio and ensure that we've got enough diversification and resiliency in our portfolios to stay a step ahead. And that's part of what, you know, mentioning the fact that we've taken a more cautious view in recent years to build in, to attempt to build in a greater margin of safety around those concerns, in line with our core philosophy of being more likely redundant than deficient. So we'll see how that plays out, but we have to be cautious in the sort of claims and litigation environment. Okay, and maybe what's a good way to think about the reserves and the charges over the last couple years? Has the bulk of this been on discontinued business for the insurance segment, or is it kind of a mix of continuing, but we're making changes to attachments, pricing, etc. ? It's a mix.

Jeremy A. Noble: So we have an example within reinsurance that Brian alluded to. It's associated with public entity business that we wrote in 2019 and prior that we discontinued at that time. We have aspects of our portfolio that are ongoing that we're trimming and rehabbing and trying to get right. We've got aspects within the portfolio that we're exiting, either classes or sub-segments. It's a bit of everything across the portfolio. Thank you. Yeah. We'll move next to Scott Helmiak at our, Yeah, good morning.

Jeremy A. Noble: Just to follow up a little bit on that, on some of the classes you've exited so far. I'm just curious how much of that you think you'll be able to fix with higher rates and improving terms and conditions versus actually exiting or reducing exposure a lot. I don't know if you can get any color or any sense on that.

Jeremy A. Noble: Just, you know, charging higher rates and changing terms and conditions versus having to exit or pair back significantly. Yeah, I can't put any specifics or quantification around that. I gave you an example earlier to say suggesting the fourth quarter and some of the lines at a larger sort of product line level that we shed over $100 million in premium on those lines that were more challenged where we were concerned about rate adequacy. And obviously, we grew more than that across everything else in the portfolio. We will continue to do that.

Jeremy A. Noble: We are focused on every facet of our insurance operations, ensuring that we have a healthy portfolio, that it's rate adequate, and that we're earning appropriate returns on capital. And I will report to you every 90 days how we're making progress in that space, but I can't sort of simplistically say that this is how it will break down. We're working hard.

Jeremy A. Noble: And then on the insurance side, you called out personal lines and property being a growth area. Can you talk about kind of what the growth rates there were in the last couple quarters, in particular Q4, and are you running that business mostly E and asset-admitted where you're seeing the opportunity, or is it a mix? It is a mix across the various segments of our portfolio where we're growing. So, I mentioned personal lines; I mentioned property, inland marine, programs, business, our binding operations, workers' comp, surety, a number of lines in our professional space. So, you've got U.S., you've got international, you've got alternative retail and wholesale, or admitted and non-admitted business. It's a mix, but in spaces like, for example, property, marine, personal lines, those will be more weighted towards E&S binding, more weighted towards E&S.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Okay. And then just one question for Tom here. On Markel Ventures, you mentioned the acquisition cost and made one in January, so that's definitely nice to see. Can you talk about the pipeline there for Markel Ventures and whether you expect to see more deal activity this year? I would guess since the deal activity last year was zero, the odds of it being more than that are pretty good.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Our phone is starting to ring. I mean, there have been some disruptions in the financial markets from time to time. The fact that interest rates exist changes the financing market for other folks out there.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: So, we're getting more inbound phone calls than we did anytime in the last 12 or 18 months. Thanks. Again, if you have a question, please press star, then 1. We'll move next to Josh Heal at CapTrust Financial. Good morning.

Jeremy A. Noble: Thank you for taking my call. First off, great job with the ventures and investments. Just a quick question on insurance, but I'd be curious to get your opinion on whether or not the target laid out in the 2020 shareholder letter of 10-5-1, so that $10 billion target for premiums, if any of that target is kind of what's coming back to causing some of these issues. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for the question. I don't believe that that's the case.

Jeremy A. Noble: When we talked about 1051 as an idea within our global insurance operations, it was roughly to suggest what would need to be true if we were to aspire to double the size of our insurance platform at that time across all aspects and do so at a level that was contributing meaningfully to the bottom line profits. The suggested growth rate there really isn't different from the growth rate that we have experienced over the past several decades as an organization. So, I don't think that that creates an unhealthy expectation around growth. I do think, linked to that, we said what would need to be true with regard to product, talent, technology, data, geography, you know, various offerings, and our trading relationships.

Jeremy A. Noble: So there were a lot of aspects of what would need to be true to be that sort of insurance organization, and we continue to work very hard at building out the breadth of specialization and diversification across the platform. I think you will have gotten a sense of that from the call today. There are a lot of things that we've done, and we've done very well. Fortunately, there are some things that have come back over the course of 10 years.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: I mean, a lot of the 19 and prior portfolios already existed prior to us making reference to the 10-5-1 objective. We could not have contemplated at that time a pandemic and what sort of inflation would occur on the inflation side, both social and economic, so the world's moved on a little bit since we had that target, but our ideas around what we aspire to be and being ambitious as an organization to be better for our customers, to be better for our employees, to create winning outcomes for our shareholders, those ideals remain. And let me jump in here. This is Tom. I want to make one factual statement about that. Nobody's incentive compensation was tied to the 10th.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: Nobody, not mine, not Jeremy's, not anybody in the organization. Every bit of incentive compensation is tied to profitability over time rather than growth without profitability. So I know there's been some heartburn in the investment community about that. We hear you.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: But I do want to at least... state the fact that no incentive compensation was designed to do the 10. Very good. Well, I appreciate the candor and look forward to many more years. Keep it going. Thank you. We'll go next to Drew Estes at Banyan Tree. Hey there, thanks for taking the question. This one's for Tom.

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: A great attribute of Markel is its optionality and capital allocation; given the performance and engine, thinking about investing in ventures right now until you can get insurance performing better? Thank you. Drew, I appreciate the question, and I do think that speaks to one of the underlying strengths of Markel. And again, you know, everybody's here working hard and gnashing of teeth, going on about some stuff. Economically, it was a pretty good year for Markel for exactly the reasons you speak of. Every incremental dollar is invested with the thought of where will it best be treated. Where will we get the highest return?

Thomas Sinnickson Gayner: So we look at insurance, we look at investments, we look at Markel Ventures, and we start with a blank sheet of paper that would, and we also look at our own shares and say where will that capital be treated best? And that's consistently been the case, and it will continue to be that way. Thank you. I appreciate it. We'll take a follow-up from Charlie Letter at... Thanks, just one follow-up. Since you took the charges on the reinsurance side too to reflect your insurance experience, could you talk about your conversations with CNN? Have they reflected some of these changes, or do you anticipate that being a story for them or maybe the industry in the near term? Yeah, that's a good point, Charlie.

Jeremy A. Noble: So, you know, in the fourth quarter, the increase in reserves that we took, particularly in the general liability space within our reinsurance segment, was not driven by underlying seeded reporting and incurred activity but more so in part because of the findings and observations that we had within our insurance book and in contemplation of the risk that some of those things could exist within the underlying reporting and incurred loss activity at some point in time. So again, I would say that was kind of a cautious approach to ensure that we're building in appropriate margins of safety, more likely redundant than deficient within the reinsurance book versus specific claims reporting activity. And we'll move next to Andrew Anderson at, Hey, thanks for taking the follow-up.

Jeremy A. Noble: On the insurance underlying loss ratio, a little bit of noise this year between VEST-2 and some collateral protection. I think in the first quarter, you moved some picks related to bank activity. So if I put it all together, relative to the reported underlying of 64, perhaps, you know, two points of one-time noise. Is that a fair way to think about it?

Jeremy A. Noble: Yeah, I think you're thinking about it right. There was definitely some noise, like you said, intellectual property, CPI, and the credit losses we experienced there, specific banking losses we recognized in the first quarter, those sort of one-offs did contribute between one and two points to that trend. And then, clearly, which we talked about throughout the year, higher attritional loss ratios across the cash, the general liability and professional liability lines being another driver.

Jeremy A. Noble: And I suppose business being written for the longer tail lines right now is already reflecting your increased view of the loss trend for 2020. That's right. Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Tom Gayner for any closing remarks. Thank you very much. We appreciate your support and look forward to checking in with you in 90 days. Be well. The conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect. Thanks for watching to the end of this video.