Q4 2023 Costamare Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Costamare Inc. conference call on the fourth quarter 2023 financial results. We have with us Mr. Gregory Zekos, Chief Financial Officer of the company. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.
Thank you for standing by ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the cost Tomorrow.
Inc Conference call on the fourth quarter 2023 financial results.
We have with US Mr. Gregory Z Kos, Chief Financial Officer of the company at this time all participants are in a listen only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session at which time if you wish to ask a question. Please press Star then one on your telephone.
Operator: There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session, at which time, if you wish to ask a question, please press star then 1 on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today, Wednesday, February 7, 2024. We would like to remind you that this conference call contains forward-looking statements. Please take a moment to read slide number 2 of the presentation, which contains these forward-looking statements. And I will now pass the floor to your speaker, Mr. Zekos. Please go ahead, sir.
Pad and wait for your name to be announced I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today Wednesday February 7th 'twenty 'twenty four we would like to remind you that this conference call contains forward looking statements. Please take a moment to read slide number two of the presentation, which can.
The forward looking statements.
And I will now pass the floor to your speaker Mr.
Gregory Lewis: Thank you and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. 2023 has been a growth year for Costamare. The company had revenues of $1.5 billion and generated net income of about $350 million. Liquidity stood at around $1 billion as of year-end. Following a strategic decision in 2021 to enter the dry bulk sector at an opportune time in the cycle, we have grown during 2023 our newly established trading platform to an operator, managing a fleet of 51 dry bulk vessels. Having invested $200 million in the new venture, we have a long-term commitment to the sector whose fundamentals we view positively. Regarding Neptune Maritime Leasing, the platform has been steadily growing on a put-in basis throughout 2023, having now concluded leasing transactions for 23 ships with a total value of about $250 million. We are committed to further growing the leasing business on the back of a healthy pipeline extending over the coming quarters.
Z Kos. Please go ahead Sir.
Thank you Ed good morning, Glenn.
2023 has been it has been a growth year for somebody like Albany.
So for one point to $5 billion and generated net income of about 315 million liquidity stood at around 1 billion as of year end.
Following our strategic decision in 2021 to enter into the dry bulk sector at an opportune time in the cycle.
We have grown during 2023, our newly established trading lots of them to inaugurate the monitoring of fleet of 51 dry bulk vessels.
Having invested $200 million anything your grandchildren, we have a long term commitment to the sector, who spent that money does we view positively.
Regarding Neptune maritime pleasing that the platform has been steadily growing one important basis throughout 2023, having now concluded leasing transactions for 23 ships with a total value of about $250 million.
We are committed to further growing the leasing business for the bank with a healthy pipeline.
Handing over the coming quarters.
Gregory Lewis: On the owned dry bulk fleet side, we are executing our strategy to renew the dry bulk fleet and increase its average size. During the year, we took the decision to dispose of 12 smaller-sized vessels and have agreed to acquire a three-cape size and one Ultramax vessel. Subject to market conditions, our goal is to continue our expansion in the dry market. In the container ship market, recent events have been contributing positively to the supply and demand dynamics, pushing up box and charter rates. Those recent developments are mitigating the effects of oversupply in the container market as tonnage is expected to remain tight at least until the Chinese New Year.
What was the old dry bulk fleet side, we are executing on our strategy to renew the dry bulk fleet anything crazy type of size. During the year. We took the decision to dispose of two other smaller sized specialists and how about the need to acquire three capesize and panamax vessels.
Subject to market conditions. Our goal is to continue our expansion on the dry market.
Do you think with energy markets recent events have been contributing positively to the supply and demand dynamics pushing not bulks in charter rates.
These recent developments are mitigating the effects of oversupply in the containership market I still expect it to remain tight at least something that Chinese new year.
Gregory Lewis: We have, however, proactively secured employment for 95 and 78 percent of our open days for 24 and 25 respectively, putting our contracted revenues for the contingency versus such $2.5 billion, with a remaining time target duration of about 3.6 years. Moving now to the slides presentation. On slide 3, you can see our annual results. Net income was about $350 million or $2.95 per share.
We have however, proactively secured employment for 95, and seven 8% of our open days for 'twenty, four and 'twenty five respectively with our contracted revenues for the contingency breathless, that's $2.5 billion with a remaining time charter duration of about two four and six years.
Moving now to the slides presentation.
Yeah.
On slide three you can see our results and I think that was about $650 million or $2 95 per share a dozen and I think that was around $250 million or $2.07 per share.
Gregory Lewis: Adjacent net income was around $250 million or $2.07 per share. Our year-end liquidity stands at roughly $1 billion, slide 4. Regarding CBI, we have charted in the period 51 vessels, with the majority of the fleet being on index link agreements. On our leasing platform, we have already invested around $120 million. Since inception, NML has financed 23 assets through sale and leasable transactions and has a very healthy pipeline going forward.
Liquidity stands at roughly 1 billion.
Slide four.
Regarding she'd be a we shouldn't be I, we have charted in video.
51 vessels with a majority of the fleet being on index linked agreements. We're not we're losing plants. All of these have already invested around $20 million since inception, and Americans find those 23 assets through sale leaseback transactions and so is it better to have the pipeline going forward.
Okay.
Gregory Lewis: Slide 5, We have now acquired York's equity interest in a feeder container ship and have now agreed to acquire one cape-sized dry bulb vessel. In parallel, we have concluded the sale of two SupraMaxx and three Handysize ships, while we have agreed to sell three more Handysize and one SupraMaxx drybag ship, slide 6. During the fourth quarter, we financed the acquisition of one dry bulk vessel through a new hunting license facility, while we have roughly $132 million available for financing further vessel acquisitions. We continue to charter all our dry bulk buses in the spot market, having entered into more than four discharging agreements since our last Enix release. On the containership side, as already mentioned, our revenue days are fixed at 95% for 2024 and 78% for 2025, while our contracted revenues are $2.5 billion with a DU weighted average remaining duration of 3.6 years. Moving to slide 7.
Slide five.
We have now acquired yours.
Equity interest and a feeder container ships.
Wonder if we the containership and housing have now agreed to acquire one capesize dry bulk vessel.
In parallel we have concluded the sale of two super amongst century have decided shapes, while we have agreed to sell three more fungicides into onshore pemex dry bulk ship.
Slide six during the fourth quarter without finding the acquisition of one dry bulk vessels through a new frantic licensed facility right.
Absolutely are available from the $32 million for financing of further vessel acquisitions, we do continue to charter, although dry, but especially the sports market having entered into more than 40 charter agreements since our last earnings release.
Well I think what Dennis I'm sorry.
Sorry, that's what I did mention that our revenue days on fixed 95 per cent for 24, and 78 425, while our contracted revenues are to $5 billion with a weighted average remaining duration of seaborne 60 years.
Moving to slide seven during 2023 without glasses, approximately $6 3 million of common shares for a total of course duration of $60 million.
Gregory Lewis: During 2023, we have purchased approximately 6.3 million common shares for a total consideration of $60 million. In addition, we continue to have a long uninterrupted dividend track record boosted by strong sponsor support. Slide eight.
In addition, we continue to have a long uninterrupted dividends rapid airports boosted by strong sponsor support.
Slide eight.
As mentioned already I really waited this stops at roughly 1 billion.
Gregory Lewis: As mentioned already, our liquidity stands at roughly 1 billion. This liquidity gives us the ability to look for opportunities to grow the company on a healthy basis. Moving to slide nine, tractor rates in the container ship market have been rising daily across all segments, having benefited from the energy crisis. However, idling capacity remains at low levels at 0.8%. And moving to the last slide.
We didn't think gives us the ability to look for opportunities to grow the company on a healthy basis.
Moving to slide nine.
Okay.
Saturday to their content. This is like what the energy markets have been rising daily across all segments, having benefited from the red to crisis.
Prosody remains at low levels of zero point to 8%.
And moving to the last night.
Gregory Lewis: On slide 10, you can see the recent dry market trends in the spot and forward market. Trader rates remain volatile, having been corrected from the highs of Q4 2023. Today's order book is at 8.5 percent of the total fleet. With that, we can conclude our presentation, and we can now take questions. Thank you. Operator, we can take the patient now. Thank you. As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star then 1 on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star then 2.
On Slide 10, you can see the recent dry bulk market trends in the sport and for other markets. So other rates remain volatile probably to be corrected from the highs of two for 2023 today.
Today's order book is at 8.5 of the total fleet.
Without them, we Gotta go close our presentation and we can now take questions. Thank you.
Operator, we can take questions now.
Thank you as a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question. Please press Star then one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced if you wish to cancel your request. Please press Star then two.
Operator: Again, that's Star 1 to ask a question. Our first question comes from Chris Wetherbee with Citigroup. Please go ahead. Hey, good morning. This is Madeline for Chris.
Again, that's star one to ask a question.
Our first question comes from Chris Wetherbee with Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Hey, Good morning. This is Matt on for Chris. Thanks for taking the question I just wanted to touch it.
Madeline: Thanks for taking the question. Good morning. Yeah, just wanted to touch on a little bit, a little bit more on CBI. Last quarter, you mentioned having a fixed fleet of 59 dry bulk vessels on period charters. We are just wondering if you could provide a little bit more detail on what drives that variability on the platform from quarter to quarter and how that can affect profitability levels as well. I think that would be great to start.
Good morning, Yeah, just wanted to touch a little bit a little bit more on C. D. I last quarter, you mentioned, having a fixed rate of 59 dry bulk vessels on period charters, but this quarter 51. So we were just wondering if you could provide a little bit more detail on sort of what drives that variability on the platform from quarter to quarter, and how that how that can affect profitability levels as well as the magna.
A potential shift in that process I think that would be great to start.
Yeah.
Gregory Lewis: Yeah. Thank you for the question. First of all, you're right; it was close to 59 ships chartered in the previous quarter. We mentioned 51 now.
That's where the equation. There is first of all you're right. It was close to 59 and shapes that I talked to in the previous quarter, We mentioned and I think too I know are at a eight eight it has nothing to do with our intention to grow the company. Further it is just that they had during that quarter specifically.
Gregory Lewis: It has nothing to do with our intention to grow the company further. It is just that, during that quarter specifically, there were some re-deliveries which coincided altogether. And we are now in the process of chartering additional vessels. At the same time, I need to remind you that we also employ FFA.
There were some great delivery squeeze coincide it altogether and we are and like we are now in the process Oh chartering in additional basins now are at the same time I need to remind you that we also employ FFA. So I mean instead of chartering in vessels at some point if you've been on fire.
Gregory Lewis: So I mean, instead of chartering in a vessel at some point, if you cannot find a suitable asset in the market, you can buy, for instance, FFA days, for example, for Panama. So the smaller number of ships chartered in has absolutely no effect and should not be misconstrued as our willingness to shrink the business. Quite the opposite, this is a long-term strategic decision, and we are committed to the dry bulk sector both through CBI and also through our own dry bulk ships. So it is a matter of free deliveries that have coincided with where the market is. We may be buying FFAs instead of chartering ships, and in this business, we need to be opportunistic. More ships will be chartered in when we find the right asset, also at the right price. Okay, interesting.
This was the velocity in the market you can buy 40 staffs FFA days, okay. So for Panamaxes. So.
A small amount of ships.
And has absolutely no effect and they should it be construed misconstrued as our.
Willingness to always seems to be quite the opposite the this is a long time Oh. So do you think decision and are we are committed to the dry bulk sector, both thoughts you'd be I and also through our our own dry bulk ships. So does it matter.
Deliveries, that's kept calling side, that's where the market is we may be buying ffa's instead of shopping and shapes are and are you.
We need to be opportunistic more seats will be chartered and when we find the right assets also other right at the right price.
Okay interesting okay. Thank you for the.
Gregory Lewis: Okay, thank you for the further granularity. And just as a follow-up, I wanted to touch on a little bit more too on the topic of share repurchase. You've been holding off on buying back your stock over the last few months, and just given the current plan that you guys have outstanding in terms of $30 million for common shares, and what was your plan moving forward with that and sort of how do you think about, you know, how I'll share account? Yeah, first of all, the share purchases, like the common stock dividends, this is a board decision, and these are subjects that are part of the board discussion But I'm leaving that aside for the time being.
Further granularity and just just as a follow up wanted to touch a little bit more too on the topic of share repurchases you've been holding off on buying back your stock over the last few months and just given the Ah Ah Ah Ah. The current plan that you guys have outstanding in terms of advanced 39.
Our common shares and 150 for preferred what what's your plan moving forward with that and sort of how do you think about you know how long how share count can cause.
Did before it.
Yeah first of all the shady parts of this like the come on Oh like these are almost all good dividends. This is a board decision.
And are these are subjects that are part of the board discussion every quarter, but leaving that aside for the time being.
Gregory Lewis: Subs by www.zeoranger.co.uk. We are the majority shareholders, the founding family at about 60%. So both dividend and share purchases that help the stock price go higher, we are all like the stock price to go higher. We are 100% aligned.
Yeah.
We are the majority shareholders are the founding family at about 60% so both dividend.
Parcells says that they shouldn't be so right. We are all like that the stock price.
Ohio are well.
Per center aligned.
Gregory Lewis: At the same time, regarding optimal capital allocation, we need to be able to tap new opportunities when they arise. So we bought back common stock worth $60 million over the years, or sort of during last year. And we also did some purchases in the past, some years ago. I'm not saying that we were sort of excluded.
At the same time.
Regarding the optimal capital allocation, we need to be able to talk about new opportunities like Oh, when I get off so we bought there, but <unk> got more stroke are worth of $60 million during the years, Oh sort of during last year.
We usually do some parts of this are in the past some years ago I'm, not saying that we sort of are excluded. The this is a board decision at those issues I discussed, but I'm not ready to tell you that that we wouldn't be buying back more stock like the next quarter or in two quarters time. This is all subject to market condition and they just subject to.
Gregory Lewis: This is a board decision, and those issues are discussed. But I'm not ready to tell you that we're going to be buying back more stock like next quarter or in two quarters' time. This is all subject to market conditions, and this is subject to the view we take regarding the optimal capital allocation of the company.
If you would take regarding the optimal capital allocation of the company. So I'm afraid I cannot be more specific oh, that's simply because this is an ongoing discussion and for the time being we feel that this is something that's going to happen the next quarter or the quarter after auto or like during 'twenty, four but I'm looking at Paul.
Gregory Lewis: So I'm afraid I cannot be more specific on that, simply because this is an ongoing discussion. And for the time being, we feel that this is something that could happen the next quarter or the quarter after, or during 24. But I'm not in a position to give you an exact timetable.
He's going to give you an exact timing depends on market conditions.
Gregory Lewis: Depends on the market condition. Got it, got it, understood. So it would be fair to assume that, for the foreseeable future, at Elevated Stock, it's unlikely that... Well, no, I didn't say that because I believe that the stock is undervalued, and if you look at some NAV calculations, you will see that the stock's value, also considering the value of the container ships and also of the dry bulk vessels and the contracted revenues from the container ships and the net debt, I think on So the fact that we're not buying back shares is not because we don't believe that the stock is undervalued. We definitely believe that the stock is undervalued.
Got it got it understood.
It would be fair to assume that for you know for the foreseeable future.
Stock prices, it's unlikely that repurchases are are going to be executed on a correct.
No.
Didn't say that because I believe that the stock is asking about the dent a if you look at some and maybe calculation and say you wouldn't see that there's talks about you're also considering the.
The container ships and those are all of the dry bulk vessels.
And the contracted revenues from the container ships and the net debt I think on a known it like a navy bases. This sokha is worth much more than that then or like a $11. So.
We're not buying back shares it's not because we don't believe that there's still good he sounded about Hulu, we definitely believe that there still is out there. However.
Gregory Lewis: However, we may still find it optimal to use that cash in order to buy ships or to boost CBI or Neptune Maritime Leasing. But it doesn't mean that because we don't buy back shares, we don't feel that the stock is undervalued. Quite the opposite.
We still made it we may find that the optimal.
You've got guys in order to buy ships there.
Or in order to boost the C V I O X amount of time leasing, but it doesn't mean that because we don't buy back says we don't feel that their stock is undervalued quite.
Quite the opposite so has it been undervalued for quite some time now.
Gregory Lewis: The stock has been undervalued for quite some time now. As in most cases, this is what's happening with the shipping stock. So we're definitely trading below NAV. Understand. Thank you very much. Color, I'll turn it over.
As these are in most of the cases say this is what's happening with the shipping stocks. So we're definitely trading has been at old Navy.
Understood. Thank you very much for for all of the further color I'll turn it over on that.
Operator: The next question comes from Ben Nolan with Stiefel. Please go ahead. Good morning, Greg.
The next question comes from Ben Nolan with Stifel. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Greg I had I had a couple but I wanted to start with the asset sales that you guys did.
Benjamin Joel Nolan: I had a couple, but I wanted to start with the asset sales that you guys did. I know that in the release you put the net after debt repayment, but could you get the gross? Proceeds from the asset sale. I can tell you that for the ships we sold, after debt repayment, the net cash in total for the 23 is close to $80 million, more or less, $79 million. Okay, I guess my question is, how much is that debt that we expect to be repaid? Yes, sorry, this debt for those ships has already been repaid. So I mean, we sold the ships, we paid back the debt, and the net equity proceeds were like 80 million for all the ships. Now, the new ships we bought, in total, bought or sort of have agreed to buy, it's like 4 kips, and you can assume that those are going to be funded with a leverage of close to 60% on the asset value. I think these are...
And there in the release you pitch the net after.
After debt repayment, but could you get the gross.
Proceeds from from the asset sales.
I can tell you that for the ships will be shown after debt repayment, the natgas and daughter.
For the 20th reach close to $80 million more or less 79 million.
I guess my question is how much is that that the.
They expect to be repaid.
Oh, yes, I'm sorry, the step there for those ships it has been a debate right.
We sold the shapes, we paid back the debt and the net equity proceeds were like 80 million for all of the ships now are the new ships. We bought are in daughter Board also took out a couple of agreed to buy.
It's like for Capes and you can assume that those are going to be funded with a leverage of close to 60%.
Well the answer to buy it.
I think he's right.
Gregory Lewis: Okay, all right. My next question had to do with the Neptune leasing program. You guys still have a little bit more to go under your original commitment, but, you know, obviously, it's growing. How do you think about that longer term? Is this something where, you know, once you reach sort of your commitment level, that amount would grow?
Mike.
Okay Alright.
My next question has to do with the Neptune leasing program and you get you still have a little bit more to go under your original commitment but.
You know obviously, it's growing how do you think about it longer term is this something where you know what once you reach sort of your commitment and all that.
That amount would grow or do you think in time your relative position as shrinks because there's.
Gregory Lewis: Or do you think in time your relative position shrinks because there's, you know, capital coming in from other sources that, you know, mean that your effective position is a little bit diluted, or how are you thinking about that? Now look, up to now, this business has grown. I mean, when we started, we started consolidating that business, and we bought the shareholding interest in March of 2023, so we talk about three quarters of operation. And over those three quarters, the business has gone from funding one to two vessels; we are like 23 vessels funded today, and with a very strong pipeline going forward. So our goal is to further grow the business, and in order to boost our returns, as you can imagine, we are also focusing on back-leveraging our equity, so boosting our returns and, at the same time, being able to participate in more transactions with our equity shareholding.
You know capital coming in from other sources that.
I mean, that's your.
Effective position, there's a little bit diluted or yeah.
How are you thinking about that business.
Yeah look them up and now this business has grown I mean, when we started.
We started to consolidate things that they you know the.
Business in Italy, and we bought the San Jose.
Our interest in motto Slide 23 shows it took about three quarters of operation.
And over those three quarters the business has profoundly get one or two vessels, we have like 23 today find it.
And with a very strong pipeline going forward. So our goal is to further grow the business Oh and AR in order to boost our returns as you can imagine we are also focusing on the back of leveraging our equity.
So.
Boosting that what it does is at the same time being able to participate in more transactions with our equity said holding now.
Gregory Lewis: Now when we reach the 250, where with back-leverage the 250, it could be total deal shock, depending on the asset and on the levels between 800, 900, a billion. Whatever the back levels will be, I think it's going to be a meaningful size. At this point in time, we're going to see whether we want to grow the business further, whether we want to have other people join in, what are the alternatives, a listing, a lot of things. I'm not ready to talk about this yet,
When we reach the 250, where we believe it is the 250 it could be total deal shop.
Depending on the Occidental the levers between 809 contract had been doing whatever the back leverage would be I think it's gonna be a meaningful size at this point in time, we're going to see how the I mean, how like a.
But whether we want to grow the business further whether we want to have other people joining what are the alternatives at least in a lot of things I'm not ready to talk about it yet I mean, the fact that we have the options. It's a good thing the fact that it is a girl.
Gregory Lewis: I mean, the fact that we have options is a good thing. The fact that it is growing is good as well. And I have to stress that it's not growing for the sake of growth. It's growing based on deals that we feel, from a credit perspective and also from a returns perspective, including the back leverage, make sense. So this is sort of a growing business which completes the rest of our assets. You don't expect to have the volatility of the returns you have in the dry bulk vessels or sort of in CBI, but it is, let's say, a steady return, which does make sense. And there are a lot of options at the moment, where we're going to be reaching the 1 billion deal mark or 800, whatever that is, depending on the back level. So we are quite positive in the light of business. Okay, and then, and then I guess my last question relates to the container business. You know, obviously, your existing book is well covered, etc.
It is good as well and to emphasize that it's not growing for the sake of growth. It's growing based on deals that we feel from a credit perspective, and also from a returns perspective, including the back leverage makes sense.
So did you say, there's sort of a growing business, we'd say completes at the rest of our assets.
Got it.
You don't expect to have a the volatility that it does do happy to dry bulk vessels, all sorts of things you'd be I, but it is a let's say a steady return.
Which does make sense.
And are there a lot of work so I'm, saying there.
The moment wed like we're gonna be reaching the 1 billion of deals or whatever that is depending on the back of that so we are quite positive on that license business.
Okay, and then and then I guess my last question relates to the container business.
You know, obviously, you're existing book as well.
I'll cover et cetera, right asset values have fallen.
Gregory Lewis: Asset values have fallen, certainly from the peak. But are we getting to a place where maybe, you know, deals and returns in the container market are getting close to something that you'd look to maybe come back to and invest in that space again? Or, in your view, is there still some room to go? I think there is still some room to go, although you can never predict the market, but it would take it one by one. If you look at new buildings, new construction prices for containers, if they still remain at a very high level. The second thing, also second-hand prices, are still at levels which have come off, and they may come off even more, but where they are today, buying at levels that would make sense if you have to have, first of all, if you want to have a good understanding of your sort of residual value with some potential upside. I think that we still have some way to go.
From the peak.
Or are we.
Getting to a place where maybe you know deals in returns in the container market.
Or or are getting close to something that you'd look to maybe come back to them and invest in that space again or or in Europe.
Or is there still some some room to go.
I think.
There is still some room to go although you can never predict the market, but they would take it one by one if you look at new buildings being punished a little containers. They still remain at very high levels.
So I mean it is the first thing the second thing also secondhand prices stay as they are language, which stopped them off and they make almost even more but where they are today.
Buying that love us that would make sense if you have to.
First of all if you want to have a good.
A good understanding of your sort of whereas it was what does he sort of evaluation with some potential upside I think that's the way that we still got some way to go.
Gregory Lewis: Of course, as like the new buildings will continue kicking in, whether the asset prices in new deals may make sense in a year's time or like in six months or like in two years, I cannot tell. But for the time being, I think we need to be going to be patient there. If we want to have a well-structured transactions with like a manageable downside and also with some residual upside. Right. Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you, Greg. Thank you. Thank you, Ben. The next question comes from Clement Mullins with Value Investors Edge. Please go ahead. Hello?
Of course, that's more of like the new building say it will continue to gain.
Whether the surprises in new deals and it makes sense in a year's time or legacy cause a mouse or like in two years I cannot tell you, but for the time being I think we need to be willing to be patient. There are if we went too far away what does that actually transactions with Leica and monitor both downside and also with our ability to drive upside.
Right Okay.
I appreciate it thanks, Greg Thank you and thank you Ben.
The next question comes from Klim, and Marlins with value Investor's edge. Please go ahead.
Yeah.
Hello Clement your line is now live.
Operator: Clement, your line is now live. Sorry, sorry about that. Good morning.
Yeah.
Alright, sorry about that good morning, Thank you for taking my questions.
Clement Mullins: Thank you for taking my questions. I wanted to follow up on the question about CBI. Could you provide some commentary on how the segment fared during the quarter? And secondly, has recent turmoil in the Red Sea had an effect on the trades you are engaged in, specifically on CBI? Okay, regarding CBI, we don't provide in our press release detailed segmental information, neither for CBI, nor for the dry bulk owned vessels, or for the containers, or for Neptune Maritime Leasing. There will be some information in our 6K filings, but for the time being, I'm afraid this is not part of our press release presentation. So, we provide the full picture, and for every business, we provide the number of assets, the CBI, the charter, the sort of investors, for example, with a generic description about the transactions there, like, for example, that most of the ships are chartered at index-linked charter rates.
I wanted to follow up on the question on CVI could you provide some commentary on how the segments during the quarter.
And secondly has the recent turmoil in the Red Sea had any effect on the traits you're engaged.
C P I.
Okay.
Regarding CPI, we don't provide that in our press release.
Are they the segmental information neither force you'd be I know like for the dry bulk are owned branches or like with the containers or for nips maritime leasing there will be some information Oh 6K filings, but for the diabetes I'm afraid. This is not part of our press release.
Presentation. So we provide the full picture and for every business, we provide the number of boxes that you'd be able to start that.
And should.
Investors for example, with a genetic description about the transactions that like for example that most of the shipyards charters.
At index linked charter rates.
So I'm afraid that is supposed to be right now.
Gregory Lewis: So, I'm afraid this is for CBI now. Regarding the rates, the events in the CBI business, I cannot say that we had a huge effect on our voyage charters or on our profitability. For the capes, for instance, the C3 or C5 may not be affected by that area. So, I cannot say that we saw something which made the market much more volatile. For the capes, for instance, in Q4, we saw increased volatility because of adverse weather conditions in China, but this was not a link to the sort of rigid disruptions. So, in conclusion, I cannot say that we saw any major effect on the CBI business.
Regarding the Red Sea.
Eventually in the ER.
In the CPI business I cannot say that we had a huge effect.
Oh boy, that's a it's out there.
Or like or like is it profitability.
Oh.
For the Capes, if what he says.
It seems that he or she five it may not be affected there.
Right.
But that area. So I cannot say that we saw something.
Which made the market much more volatile for the Capes are 40, such positive for Q4, we saw increased volatility because of adverse weather conditions in China.
But this was not the link to the sort of but that's at the cause and options. So I cannot say that we saw any major effect are.
And the CPI business.
Gregory Lewis: Makes sense, thank you. I also want to follow up on Ben's question on Neptune leasing. As I understand it, it's fully consolidated in your financial statements. You mentioned potentially adding leverage to free up capital, but I was wondering if there was any debt outstanding on Neptune as of year-end. There is.
Makes sense. Thank you I also want to follow up on Ben's question on Neptune leasing I think understand need its fully consolidated in your financial statements, you mentioned potentially adding leverage to free up capital, but I was wondering was there any debt outstanding one nephew as of year end.
There is a there is a because neptune.
Gregory Lewis: Because Neptune is capitalized by our equity, and in the transactions we conclude as Neptune, Neptune gets back leverage, so it gets debt from third-party providers for every transaction it is entering into. So there is also leverage at the Neptune level. Now, generally, the leverage of Neptune is at low levels, in the region of, I don't know, between 35 to 45 percent, depending on the transactions. But, yes, in order to have solid returns on our equity investments in Neptune, we need to have some back leverage there as well, but at lower levels.
He described utilized by our equity.
And.
Should we conclude as Neptune.
Naturally get a back elaborate show a it gets debt from a third party providers.
For every transaction it is entering into so that is also leverage are the natural level now.
Generally the leverage of Neptune is just is at low levels in the region of I don't know, if we're doing 35% to 45% depending on the transactions, but yes, but in order to cover a solid returns on our equity investments in Neptune, we need to have somebody levers there.
However at lower levels.
Makes sense. Thanks for the color that's all for me. Thank you for taking my questions.
Gregory Lewis: Makes sense, thanks for the color. That's all from me; thank you for taking my questions. This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Zekos for any closing remarks. Thank you all for dialing in and for your interest in Costamare. We are looking forward to speaking with you again during the next quarterly results. Thank you very much. Bye. The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.
Right.
This concludes our question and answer session I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Xie coast for any closing remarks.
Thank you all for dialing in and for your interesting questions and we're looking forward to speaking with you again during the next quarter.
Quarterly results. Thank you very much.
Conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation you may now disconnect.