Q4 2023 LendingTree Inc Earnings Call

February 27, 2024

Yeah.

Operator: Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the LendingTree Incorporated fourth quarter 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode.

Speaker Change: Good day, and thank you for standing by and welcome to the Lendingtree incorporated fourth quarter 2023 earnings Conference call.

Speaker Change: At this time all participants are in a listen only mode.

Operator: After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising that your hand is raised.

Speaker Change: After the Speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session to ask a question. During this session you will need to press star one on your telephone you will then hear an automated message advising that your hand is raised to withdraw your question. Please press star one again please.

Operator: To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Andrew Wessel, VP of Investor Relations and Corporate Development. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

Speaker Change: I would now like to hand, the conference over to your Speaker today, Andrew Wessel V. P of Investor Relations and corporate development. Please go ahead.

Andrew N. Wessel: Thank you, Dede, and good morning to everyone joining us on the call to discuss LendingTree's fourth quarter 2023 financial results. With us on the call today are Doug Lebda, LendingTree's Chairman and CEO, Scott Peyree, COO and President of Marketplace Businesses, and Trent Ziegler, CFO. As a reminder to everyone, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our investor relations website earlier today. And for the purposes of today's call, we will assume that listeners have read that letter, and we'll focus on Q&A. Before I hand the call over to Doug for his remarks, I remind everyone that during today's call, we may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance. However, any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risk and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many, but not all, of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Andrew N. Wessel: Thank you Judy and good morning to everyone joining us on our call to discuss Lendingtree fourth quarter 2023 financial results.

Andrew N. Wessel: With us on the call today are Doug Lebda lending trees, Chairman and CEO, Scott Perry, CLO, and president of marketplace businesses and trends Eagle our CFO.

Andrew N. Wessel: As a reminder to everyone. We posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our Investor Relations website earlier today and.

Andrew N. Wessel: For the purposes of today's call, we all assume that Westerners who've read that letter and we'll focus on Q&A.

Scott Perry: Before I hand, the call over to Doug for his remarks, I'll remind everyone that during today's call. We may discuss when increased expectations for future performance.

Scott Perry: Any forward looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties and lendingtree is actual results to differ materially from the views expressed today.

Speaker Change: But not all of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

Andrew N. Wessel: We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call today, and I refer you to today's press release and the letter with the letter, both available on our website, for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP. And with that, Doug, please go ahead. Thank you, Andrew, and thank you to all who are with us on the call. In 2023, we strategically simplified our business and reduced our fixed expense base. Strength of the Dark Valley.

Douglas Robert Lebda: We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call today and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter both of them.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Available on our website for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP.

Speaker Change: Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Thank you Andrew and thank you to all who are with us on the call today.

Speaker Change: 2023, we strategically simplified our business reduced our fixed expense base strengthened our balance sheet.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Rooney Mart, Despite the revenue challenges we continue to navigate, we remain solidly profitable and maintain the ability to strategically invest in the company. All three of our reportable segments have operated through a historic period of disruption, following a rapid move higher in interest rates in this period of elevated. And at the same time, our business model has again proven its durability, as we earned $78.5 million of adjusted EBITDA this year and generated $55 million of free cash. As our lender and insurance partners broadly pulled back from new customers, we chose to focus on efficiency, causing our operating margins to steadily increase throughout the year. In the fourth quarter, we earned $15.5 million, which is normally a seasonally softer quarter for us.

Speaker Change: Margins. Despite the revenue challenges, we continue to navigate we remain solidly profitable and maintain the ability to strategically invest in the company.

Speaker Change: All three of our reportable segments of operated three historic period of disruption.

Speaker Change: Following a rapid move higher in interest rate.

Speaker Change: Period of elevated inflation.

Speaker Change: And at the same time, our business model has again proven its durability as we earned $78 $5 million of adjusted EBITDA, This year and generated $55 million of free cash flow.

Speaker Change: As our lenders and insurance partners broadly pulled back from new.

Speaker Change: Customers of these external factors last year, we chose to focus on efficiency, causing our operating margins to steadily increase throughout the year.

Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter, we earned $15 $5 million, which is normally a seasonally softer quarter for us encouragingly the much anticipated upturn in our in our insurance segment began to take hold in December and has continued to strengthen into the first quarter.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Encouragingly, the much-anticipated upturn in our insurance segment began to take hold in December and has continued to strengthen into the first quarter. The consumer, auto, and home insurance markets have endured a prolonged hard market cycle over the last two years that is, in many ways unprecedented, driven by the inflationary impact of law, be following me after COVID lockdown. Now that insurers have effectively passed through numerous rounds of pricing, they have returned to a more robust pace of marketing. Fortunately, our customers continue to shop for new policies at record levels, with volumes increasing 10% compared to a year ago. During the quarter, we also repurchased $100 million of our 2025 convertible notes at a discount to par value, similar to the transaction we completed earlier in the year. We have now opportunistically paid down half of the original $575 million amount at about a 20% discount, and we remain committed to retiring the remainder in the most efficient manner possible for our shareholders.

Speaker Change: The consumer auto and home insurance markets have endured a prolonged hard market cycle over the last two years that is in many ways unprecedented driven by the inflationary impacts to loss cost.

Speaker Change: Following after Covid Lockdowns now.

Speaker Change: Now that insurers have effectively pass through numerous rounds of price increases.

Speaker Change: They have returned to a more robust pace of marketing spend.

Speaker Change: Fortunately our customers continue to shop for new policies at record levels with volumes, increasing 10% compared to a year ago.

Speaker Change: During the quarter, we also repurchased $100 million of our 2025 convertible notes at a discount to par value similar to the transaction, we completed earlier in the year.

Speaker Change: Now have opportunistically pay down half of the original 575 million dollar amount of these notes at about a 20% discount.

Speaker Change: And we remain committed to retiring the remainder in the most efficient mammal manner possible for our shareholders.

Finally, the financial outlook. We released this morning assumes continued improvement in the insurance segment compared to last year.

Speaker Change: We have taken what we believe to be a conservative view for our home and consumers.

Speaker Change: Given the continued dislocations in the housing market and persistently tighter lending standards many of our consumer partners. However, due to the extensive work we've done right sizing our expense base. We're now forecasting our adjusted EBITDA will grow at a healthy pace from last year as we hope fixed costs near current levels.

Operator: Finally, the financial outlook we released this morning assumes continued improvement in the insurance segment compared to last year. We have taken what we believe to be a conservative view for our home and consumer due to continued dislocations in the housing market and persistently tighter lending standards that many of our consumer partners face. However, due to the extensive work we've done right-sizing our expense base, we're now forecasting our adjusted EBITDA will grow at a healthy pace from last year, as we hold fixed costs near current levels. If the revenue picture improves, we And now, Operator, please open the line. Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again.

Speaker Change: The revenue picture improves we would expect this operating leverage to positively impact our bottom line.

Speaker Change: And now operator, please open the line for questions.

Speaker Change: Thank you as a reminder to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced to withdraw your question. Please press star one again.

One moment for your first question.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: And our first question comes from Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer and company.

Jed Kelly: Hey, Great just two if I may one and the consumer segment can you talk about just on the outlook how much of the growth is that new controls sort of based on improving conversion and sort of maybe clawing back some of the market share losses versus what's going on in the macro and then.

Operator: One moment for our first question. The Bulletproof Executive 2013, And our first question comes from Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer & Company. Hey, great. Just two, if I may.

Jed Kelly: It looks like the fed is going to push out the interest rate cuts can you just talk about how that impacts your outlook and then how you think about potentially refinancing the converts.

Speaker Change: Sure let me take the.

Jed Kelly: One in the consumer segment, can you talk about just on the outlook, how much of the growth is that you control sort of based on, you know, improving conversion, sort of maybe clawing back some of the market share losses versus what's going on in the macro? And then, you know, it looks like the Fed's gonna, you know, push out the interest rate cuts. Can you just talk about how that impacts your outlook? And then how you think about potentially refinancing the convert? Thanks. Sure. Let me take the second part of that on home.

Speaker Change: The second part of that on home when they have to be.

Speaker Change: Next week.

Speaker Change: The operational pieces on consumer.

Speaker Change: And but I would say that it's high level Jed our outlook.

Speaker Change: In terms of controlling it and not controlling it what I would say this.

When you look at lending tree is a balance of supply and demand.

Speaker Change: And all of your advertisers all of your clients are pulling back.

Speaker Change: Obviously, we right sized the margining right side of the business to get that right. We believe that every one of those segments is now at its bottom.

Speaker Change: And now all you are waiting for and consumer is better credit.

Speaker Change: So that we can lean into marketing so any conversion rate improvements anything from our initiatives.

Speaker Change: A little bit baked in to our outlook from our tree Qual initiative. For example, that's starting to bear some real fruit and our lenders are really liking it.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Let me have, You can actually take the operational pieces on consumer, but I would say at a high level, Jed, our outlook in terms of controlling it and not controlling it, what I would say is when you look at LendingTree as a balance of supply and all of your advertisers, all of your clients, obviously, we right-sized the marketing, right-sized the business to get that right. We believe that every one of those segments is now at its bottom.

Speaker Change: Uh huh.

Speaker Change: And really robust pipeline there.

Speaker Change: So we baked in some a little bit for some of the things that we know that we're pretty certain they're going to happen.

Speaker Change: And we also can still invest in the business. So I feel really really comfortable about.

Speaker Change: The guide, we're giving I think it's also showing significant growth.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: As soon as the thing that people Miss about our business is that.

Speaker Change: When rates start to fall, even a little bit our business in home and refinance moves with.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And now all you're waiting for in the consumer is better credit, so that we can lean into the market. So any conversion rate improvements, anything from our initiatives. We have a little bit baked in to our outlook from our TreeQual initiative, for example, that's starting to bear some real fruit, and our lenders are really liking it. And a really robust pipeline there.

Speaker Change: The rate of change of interest rates, So you don't need.

Speaker Change: You told me a little tick down call it a quarter half a point in mortgage rates and you will have a whole bunch of borrowers today that are coming through our funnel that doesn't make.

Speaker Change: Sense for them to refinance and it will.

Speaker Change: Once conditions improve a little bit Scott.

Scott Perry: Alright, any add on anything there and try and talk about the refinancing.

Speaker Change: Yes, yes. Thanks.

Speaker Change: Thanks, Dave This is Scott Perry.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So we've baked in a little bit for some of the things that we know that we're pretty certain are gonna happen. And we can also still invest in the business. So I feel really, really comfortable about the guide we're giving. I think it's also shown significant growth. 2012 University of Georgia College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences UGA Extension Office of Communications and Creative Services. As soon as the thing that people miss about our business is that when rates start to fall even a little bit, our business in home and refinance moves with the rate of change. So you don't need. You only need a little tick down, call it a quarter, half a point in mortgage rates. And you will have a whole bunch of borrowers today that are coming through our funnel that it doesn't make sense for them to refinance, but it will once conditions improve a little bit.

Scott Perry: Joe Hi, Joe This morning.

Speaker Change: Just just to add on real quick to some of Doug's comments there.

Scott Perry: I'll start to say in the consumer lending side of the business. There's a lot of those items from a consumer's perspective aren't they're not quite as rate sensitive if youre looking at personal loans or small business loans or credit cards. These are more just consumers that need money and are seeking out money.

Scott Perry: We did as we had a lot of focus over the past year.

Scott Perry: In optimizing the business both from an Opex perspective, but then also just from a <unk>.

Scott Perry: <unk> media performance and marketing performance perspective.

Scott Perry: I'll be honest I said, we probably gave up a little bit of market share, we probably let the pendulum swing a little too far.

Scott Perry: The optimization side of that but that said I think we're in a very very good position right now where our business is very profitable on a unit economic basis, and we are ready.

Scott Perry: Our actively leaning into multiple areas of opportunity I mean, we're already seeing strong sequential growth in our home equity business really strong sequential growth in our small business area.

Scott Perry: We're also seeing we're also seeing growth in App purchase and refi in auto loans.

Scott Perry: Sequentially, so even though they're coming off of lows we are now.

Scott Perry: Pivoting the business.

Scott Peyree: Trent, any add-on, anything there, and Trent will talk about the... Yeah, yeah, thanks, Doug. This is Scott Peyree. Hello Jed, how are you doing this morning? Just to add real quick to some of Doug's comments there, you know, I would start to say on the consumer lending side of the businesses, a lot of those items, from a consumer's perspective, aren't, they're not quite as rate sensitive. You know, if you're looking at personal loans, or small business loans, or credit cards, these are more just consumers that need And, As we've had a lot of focus over the past year in optimizing the business, both from an opex perspective, but then also just from a media performance and marketing performance perspective. You know, I'll, I'll be honest. I said, we probably gave up a little bit of market share, we probably let the pendulum swing a little too far to the optimization side. But that said, I think we're I mean, we're already seeing strong sequential growth in our home equity business and really strong sequential growth in our small business area.

Scott Perry: Back to growth mode, and as interest rates have leveled it does change the consumer cycles, even though they remain elevated that there is a.

Scott Perry: A large quantity of consumers coming through and searching for loans on a day to day basis.

Speaker Change: Great question.

Speaker Change: Talking about the refinance yes, Jed Jed can you repeat the question on the on the yes.

Speaker Change: So Jed it was how long.

Jed Kelly: Thanks for that.

Speaker Change: From my perspective, the credit markets have definitely improved.

Speaker Change: A little bit we continue to have conversations trend can.

Speaker Change: Add on more but.

Speaker Change: We're pretty confident that we'll be able to handle that.

Yes.

Speaker Change: Why don't you take the add on anything else and we feel that yes.

Speaker Change: Wherever we would be we wouldn't be taking on a debt load.

Speaker Change: But we couldnt handle we think the company has done really sound financial footing.

Yes, as it relates to the balance sheet I mean, obviously, we've we did a lot of work last year to make that a much more manageable number.

Speaker Change: Continued to explore for the last three or four quarters, we've been having a bunch of conversations.

Speaker Change: Sort of looking at alternatives across the capital structure, those conversations are getting quite a bit more constructive as the fundamentals are becoming more stable and improving.

So we feel pretty good about our ability to.

Speaker Change: To address that maturity.

Speaker Change: In the first half of this year.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you one moment for our next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Youssef Squali of two.

Youssef Squali: <unk> Securities.

Youssef Squali: Good morning.

Youssef Squali: <unk>.

Youssef Squali: Maybe just stepping back a little bit at a high level kind of following up on that the macro question. As you were formulated in your 2024 outlook can you just talk about.

Scott Peyree: We're also seeing growth in the purchase and refi, and auto loans sequentially. So even though they're coming off of lows, we are now pivoting the business back to growth mode. And as those interest rates have leveled, it does change consumer psychology, even though they remain elevated, that there is a large quantity of consumers coming through and searching for loans on a day-to-day basis. Hey Trent, talk about the refinance. Yeah Jed, can you repeat the question on the refinance? Yeah, let me hit it first.

Youssef Squali: You are <unk> as a base case.

Youssef Squali: I guess, what I'm really trying to get to is could you hit your guidance.

Revenues across the entire business if rates stay stable.

And then can you maybe just talk a little bit about the competitive landscape across the three segments that I just talked about maybe on the consumer side are you guys pulled back a little bit lost a bit of share.

Youssef Squali: How are you how did you do across the other two segments. How are you kind of <unk>.

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Speaker Change: Thank you, yes, so use if I understand it.

Speaker Change: What is the base case, assuming for the macro for our guide and <unk>.

Speaker Change: Talk about competition.

Speaker Change: Get that right.

Speaker Change: Yes, okay.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So Jed, it was how long... all that would keep it in the credit markets from my perspective. The credit markets have definitely improved a little bit. We continue to have conversations Trent. We're pretty confident that we'll be able to handle that. Why don't you take an ad on anything else?

Speaker Change: So our base case assumed.

Speaker Change: The higher for longer.

Speaker Change: Great.

Speaker Change: And we're not baking in.

Speaker Change: Any.

Speaker Change: Our nothing in our guidance is baking in.

Speaker Change: Fed rate cuts.

Speaker Change: Or.

Speaker Change: A strong.

Speaker Change: Consumer credit conditions at.

Speaker Change: PL lenders or things like that so.

Speaker Change: Not everything that we're doing from here on out is.

Trent Ziegler: And we feel that wherever we would be, we wouldn't be taking on a debt load that we couldn't handle. We think the company is not really sound. Yeah, as it relates to the balance sheet, Jed, obviously, we did a lot of work last year to make that a much more manageable number. We've continued to explore for the last three, four quarters, we've been having a bunch of conversations, sort of, you know, looking at alternatives across capital structure, and those conversations are getting quite a bit more constructive as the fundamentals are becoming more stable and improving. So we feel pretty good about our ability to address that maturity in the first half of this year. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker Change: But you see us managing the business as it is today baking in.

Speaker Change: The initiatives that we know are happening on competition.

Speaker Change: Momentum and let Scott drill down.

Speaker Change: The good news about this space now is we have a defined set of competitors.

Speaker Change: In both insurance and lending.

Speaker Change: In lead generation or comparison shopping and you can all comparable.

Speaker Change: We resolved to Wifi.

Speaker Change: Feel that we're absolutely gaining share and doing well and doing very very well in insurance and we think that to the extent that we lost share.

Speaker Change: Two competitors that is simply due to as Scott I'll put a finer point on something that Scott said earlier, when we were working.

Working on our marketing last year, we reduced our out of bids and manage our Google stuff very differently.

Speaker Change: Manage our advertising broadly very differently and now.

Speaker Change: We can lean back in and regain some of that share simply by marketing into the better unit economics that Scott talked about Scott why don't you hit anything else on competition.

Scott Perry: Yeah, just high level on the competitive landscape I'll start and insurers I think we are positioned.

Operator: One moment for our next question, and our next question comes from Yousef Squali of Tourist Security. Good morning.

Scott Perry: Extremely well in the insurance space I believe from everyone. That's reported we're the only company that's looking at <unk>.

Hamed Khorsand: So, maybe just stepping back a little bit at a high level, kind of following up on the macro question, as you were formulating your 2024 outlook, can you just talk about what you are baking as a base case for, and I guess what I'm really trying to get to is could you hit your guidance of flat revenues across the entire business if rates stay startlingly high? And then, could you maybe just talk a little bit about the competitive landscape across the three segments? I think Todd just talked about, maybe on the consumer side, how you guys pulled back a little bit, lost a bit of share. How are you, how did you do across the other two segments, and how are you kind of positioned as you enter 2024? Thank you. Yes, So, Yusuf, I understand it for the macro for our guide and talk about competition. Yeah, okay, good.

Scott Perry: <unk> growth year over year in Q1 in both revenue and BMD and growth on a double digit percentage basis and both of those categories. So.

Scott Perry: And its pretty wide at Contura, our health insurance business had an all time high year last year and revenue in DMD, both Q4 and the year as a whole that's a very strong business for US are local agent business is very strong for us January was our all time high revenue for local agent revenue.

Scott Perry: It's also the highest quantity of agents buying leads from us as ever it's ever been.

Scott Perry: Paid search.

Scott Perry: The quote requests are nearly triple what they were from 2021 levels. So we're controlling a massive amount of very high intent high quality consumers.

Scott Perry: So I believe there was done a very good job of increasing our piece of the pie.

Scott Perry: During the downturn.

Scott Perry: Yes.

Scott Perry: We are positioned well to maintain that piece of the pie and we increased it as growth comes back in and then I'll step back and say this is going to be a broad based recovery. There's lots of good companies in our business to have good relationships with the clients that everyone's going to be rewarded during the insurance recovery, that's going to happen over the next 24 to 36 months and is happening very rapidly. So.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So our base case assumed, The Hire for Longer, great, and we're not baking in, any you know, that nothing in our guidance is baking in. FEDRATE, and or you know, strong consumer credit conditions at PL lenders or things like that, so we're not everything that we're doing from here on out is that you see is managing the business as it is today, and baking in initiatives that we know are happening on. Let me and then let Scott drill down. The good news about this space now is that we have a defined set of competitors in both insurance and lending for lead generation or comparison shopping. And you can all compare. We feel that we are absolutely gaining share and doing well and doing very, very well in insurance, and we think that to the extent that we lost share to competitors, that is simply due to, as Scott said earlier, when we were working on our marketing last year, we, you know, reduced a lot of bids and managed our Google stuff very differently, and managed our advertising broadly very differently. And now, you know, we can lean back in and regain some of that share simply by marketing into the better unit economics that Scott talked about. Scott, why don't you hit anything else in the competition? Yeah, just a high level use on the competitive landscape.

Scott Perry: We're going to be an outsized winner of that but I think everyone's going to be a winner of that recovery.

Scott Perry: Hitting on mortgage quickly.

I feel we may take even though it's.

Scott Perry: It's in a severe downturn right now we pretty much maintained a very dominant position in the mortgage space. We've got extremely close relationships with the biggest players in that space, but we also have what I would call the broadest.

Scott Perry: Distribution network from a client perspective, as well, we have much more clients and broader client distribution in mortgage purchase refi home equity than our competitive set does.

Scott Perry: On the consumer side.

Scott Perry: That's probably the one area, where we've where we've struggled more than the other two categories, but it's also an area where I would say I have some of the most optimism because there still remains a lot of consumer demand. There has been just a level of consistency with our clients over the past three months that we have not.

Scott Perry: Seen in over a year. So now that we've reached a level of consistency is going to make it much easier for us to lean into growth opportunities and lean into media opportunities. So I think we're going to see I think youre going to see over the next year are starting to gain some of that market share back.

Speaker Change: That's helpful. Thank you both.

Thank you one moment for the next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Ryan Thomas shallow of K B W.

Scott Peyree: I'll start with insurance. I think we are already positioned extremely well in the insurance space. You know, from everyone that's reported, we're the only company that's looking at growth year-over-year in Q1 in both revenue and VMD and growth on a double-digit percentage basis in both of those categories. So, you know, and it's pretty wide across the board.

Speaker Change: Hi, Thanks for taking the questions.

Speaker Change: Just to put a finer point around the convert.

Speaker Change: How committed is the company to avoiding equity linked dilution when addressing that maturity.

Speaker Change: And trends just to clarify in your earlier remarks did you say youre optimistic you can address that in the first half of this year did I hear that wrong.

Speaker Change: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker Change: Ryan.

Ryan Thomas: Yes look I mean, we obviously are sensitive to dilution right as we've been exploring the various alternatives obviously those.

Scott Peyree: Our health insurance business had an all-time high year last year in revenue and VMD both in Q4 and the year as a whole. That's a very strong business for us. Our local agent business is very strong for us. January was our all-time high revenue for local agent revenue, with also the highest quantity of agents buying leads from us that's ever been. Our paid search quote requests are nearly triple what they were at 2021 levels.

Ryan Thomas: The alternatives are not great when our stock with a ton of share at overcoming more interesting it.

Ryan Thomas: 35, a share but also our fundamentals and the just the cash flow and debt service that we can support make us feel pretty confident that that.

Ryan Thomas: We don't have to use dilution as a means to addressing addressing that maturity.

Ryan Thomas: So thats.

Ryan Thomas: That's 0.1 and then.

Ryan Thomas: It has always been our stated goal that we wanted to address the thing before it goes current in July of this year.

Ryan Thomas: And to continue to try to find the best path to doing so.

Speaker Change: The only thing the only thing I'd add is as we.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Started down this process.

Speaker Change: I am as much personally and corporately as we focus on shareholders there.

Speaker Change: Various dilution on on that.

Speaker Change: As <unk> said, we feel.

Speaker Change: Good we can do this non dilutive way.

Okay, Great and then Scott as a follow up on the insurance.

Speaker Change: Business.

Scott Perry: Just trying to understand if there is.

Scott Perry: How you view as this recovery takes shape. If there is any marketing channels. In this space that are maybe better positioned to capture more spend or see that recovery sooner than other areas. Among SCM director clinic direct carrier versus agents, just trying to understand how the lending tree quote wizard is relatively position versus the competition.

Scott Peyree: Everyone's going to be rewarded during the insurance recovery that's going to happen over the next 24, 36 months, and it's happening very rapidly. So, I think we're going to be an outsized winner of that, but I think everyone's going to be a winner of that recovery. Hitting on mortgage quickly, you know, I feel we maintain, even though it's, you know, it's in a severe downturn right now, we pretty much maintain a very dominant position in the mortgage space. We've got extremely close relationships with the biggest players in that space, but we also have what I would call the broadest distribution network from a client perspective as well. We have much more clients and a broader client distribution in mortgage and purchase-refi home equity than our competitive set does.

Scott Perry: Thanks.

Scott Perry: Okay.

Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean, I think when you look at our recovery.

Speaker Change: And an interest in any industry I mean assured us included.

Speaker Change: What the clients are going to go after first is the highest quality highest intent most profitable consumers.

Speaker Change: For them and I think we have done a very good job over the past two years with a laser focus on increased increasing our position in the various marketplaces, where there were those highest quality consumers are and honestly Ryan I think thats that is whats given us some outsized.

Speaker Change: In the early days of the recovery now as the recovery broadens as the year goes on.

Scott Peyree: On the consumer side, that's probably the one area where we've struggled more than the other two categories, but it's also an area where I would say I have the most optimism because there still remains a lot of consumer demand. There has been a level of consistency with our clients over the past three months that we have not seen in over a year.

Speaker Change: Carriers are going to open up the kimono of their budgets more fully to all to all the competitive landscape in and asked for a transition and you probably have to the margins have to come down.

Speaker Change: Little bit to maintain your positioning, but I think it's a lot easier to maintain positioning than to try to grow positioning and we've done a lot of growing our positioning over the past two years.

Speaker Change: And Ryan I would add to that what I really have loved about the insurance business.

Scott Peyree: So now that we've reached that level of consistency, it's going to make it much easier for us to lean into growth opportunities and lean into media opportunities. So I think we're going to see, I think you're going to see over the next year, starting to gain some of that market share. That's helpful. Thank you both.

Speaker Change: And so maybe that acquisition.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: Scott was leading there was sharpening the marketing pencil.

Speaker Change: And getting ready for the recovery, but still maintaining great client relationships. So that when they come back we hopefully get more of the spend than our competitors and then we have to be able to deliver to them.

Operator: Thank you. One moment for the next question. And our next question comes from Ryan Tomasello of KBW. Hi everyone, thanks for taking the questions. Just to put a finer point around the conversion, how committed is the company to avoiding equity-linked dilution when addressing that maturity? And Trent, just to clarify, in your earlier remarks, did you say you're optimistic you can address that in the first half of this year, or did I hear that wrong? That's right. A good question, Ryan. Yeah, look, I mean, we obviously are sensitive to dilution, right?

Speaker Change: Number of policies that they won.

Speaker Change: And as you know it sounds like you are very up to speed on the insurance.

Speaker Change: Businesses here.

The carriers some of them are better with direct to agents. Some are better with calls some are better with clay.

Speaker Change: Okay or events or better with lower intent and the great thing.

Speaker Change: And summer auto and some focus in homeowners in the beauty beautiful thing about all of that is we've got a very very well balanced.

Speaker Change: Portfolio of insurance channels.

Speaker Change: Where we can help.

Speaker Change: To help our clients.

Speaker Change: Part of what they want.

Speaker Change: And now Scott is leading that on the lending side and I think we still have those very good relationships and it's profitable for our clients to spend we feel that there'll be spending back into this year.

Ryan Tomasello: As we've been exploring the various alternatives, obviously, those alternatives were not great when our stock was 10 a share; they're becoming more interesting at, you know, 35 a share, but also, our fundamentals and just the cash flow and debt service that we can support make us feel pretty confident that we don't have to use dilution as a means of addressing the maturity. Yeah, that's... You know, that's point number one. And then, you know, it has always been our stated goal that we want to address this thing before it goes into effect in July of this year, and we intend to continue to try to find the best path to doing so. And the only thing I'd add is, as we, you know, started this process, I am as much personally and corporately as we focus on shareholders, prepares delusion about that, and, As Trent said, we feel good that we can do this non-profit. Okay, great.

Speaker Change: Great appreciate all the color.

Speaker Change: Thank you one moment for our next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from John Campbell of Stephens.

John Campbell: Hey, guys good morning.

John Campbell: Good morning, John.

John Campbell: Hey, I wanted to stay on the insurance segment outlook, obviously, it was encouraging to see you guys.

John Campbell: See the snapback in activity in December and it looks like your <unk> outlook. It seems like obviously, a continuation of strength and then share gains as well, but I'm curious about how you guys are thinking about the sequential lift coming out of <unk>.

John Campbell: And then maybe just more broadly how the shape of that curve is going to is going to look I know the exact timing is going to be difficult to pin down. So maybe if you guys could also talk to whether you think the puzzle pieces are in place to maybe reach new peaks at some point this year and insurance business.

Speaker Change: Trent I am going to.

Trent: When youre talking about the the curve are you talking about everything are you just talking about insurance just within insurance for now okay.

Trent: Yes, John just in terms of the in terms of the guide.

Trent: We're obviously monitoring this in real time, and we see what we see in Q1, which has been really strong.

Trent Ziegler: And then, Scott, as a follow-up on the insurance business, I'm just trying to understand if there are, how you view as this recovery takes shape, if there are any marketing channels in the space that are maybe better positioned to capture more spend or see that recovery sooner than other areas, you know, among SEM, direct-to-click, you know, direct carrier versus agents. Just trying to understand how LendingTree and QuoWizard are relatively positioned versus the competition. Thanks.

Trent: Sign of where things are headed.

Speaker Change: Kind of like Doug's commentary around our outlook for home <unk> consumer and what we baked in we've taken a fairly conservative stance here right and so we assume.

Speaker Change: As the year progresses, we're not baking in a ton of upside.

Speaker Change: Obviously, we do feel like the recovery could become more broad based.

Speaker Change: And I think Scott can add some color commentary to that.

Yes.

Speaker Change: John.

John Campbell: I'd say last trend said I think it especially with whatever.

Scott Perry: After what happened in Q1 last year, we went from a forecasting perspective, we want to be conservative until our clients.

Scott Perry: We baked some of that guaranteed budgets from our clients now.

Scott Peyree: Yeah, I mean, when you look at a recovery in an industry, in any industry, I mean, insurance included, but you know, what the clients are going to go after first are the highest quality, highest intent, most profitable consumers for them. And I think we have done a very good job over the past two years with a laser focus on increasing our position in the various marketplaces where those highest quality consumers are. And, you know, honestly, Ryan, I think that is what's given us some outsized budget in the early days of the recovery. Now, as the recovery broadens, as the year goes on, carriers are going to open up the kimono of their budgets more fully to all the competitive landscape, and that's where you transition, and you probably have to, the margins have to come down a little bit to maintain your positioning, but I think it's a lot easier to maintain positioning than to try to grow positioning, and we've done a lot of growing our positioning And Ryan, I'd add to that what I really have loved about the insurance business. And I'm so happy to be that acquisition.

Scott Perry: That said all of our conversations with our clients broad based across the board is they are very happy very profitable and are going to continue expanding geos as the year goes on.

Scott Perry: No.

Scott Perry: Just anecdotally.

Scott Perry: I would.

<unk> sequential growth quarter after quarter after the year as the year goes on unless some major macro.

Scott Perry: Event happens.

Scott Perry: It's a very broad base.

Scott Perry: Recovery of insurance.

Scott Perry: There's a lot of profitability across the board, we're already getting I mean, there was a few carriers that were opening geos in March that as a month or two ago. We thought it would be the end of the year before they open up any new geos. So.

Scott Perry: I think there is a snowball effect that's happening the snowball is rolling down the hill and.

Scott Perry: From my standpoint, Im extremely optimistic on continued growth throughout the year.

Speaker Change: Okay. That's very helpful and then.

Speaker Change: Maybe maybe for Doug here. This is kind of a near term medium term question as well as kind of a bigger picture question. Just two part question, but on the brand spend I think you guys close this year at $8 9 million that was closer to $30 million last three years. It makes it a little bit higher than that.

Speaker Change: That so I'm curious about what you guys have kind of outlined for this year how much of that is fully committed and then bigger picture whats youre thinking about.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And what Scott was leading there was sharpening the marketing pencil and getting ready for the recovery, but still maintaining great client relationships so that when they come back, we hopefully get more of the spend than our competitors. And then we have to be able to deliver to them the number of policies that they want. And as you know, it sounds like you're very up to speed on the insurance businesses here. The carriers, some of them are better with direct-to-agent, some are better with call, and some are better with click.

Speaker Change: As far as brand spend is that something you expect to ratchet higher over time or is this a new kind of normal lower level at this point.

Speaker Change: So so the way.

Speaker Change: Really great question.

Speaker Change: Lendingtree benefits from the fact that we started with TV spend.

Speaker Change: The year 2000.

Speaker Change: Instead of.

Speaker Change: Doing well.

Speaker Change: At the time.

Speaker Change: And it proved out that the TV, we could drive consumers profitably through television.

Speaker Change: Then got our online act together and that brand is obviously helps our online we have zero assumption of brand spend this year.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Some events are better with lower intent and the great... And some are auto, and some focus on homeowners. And the beautiful thing about all of that is we've got a very, very well-balanced portfolio of insurance channels where we can help our clients get a policy they want. And now Scott's leading that on the lending side. And I think we still have those very good relationships.

Speaker Change: In here and the way the advertising works is you only really get to TV spend for us when your unit economics in your demand from your advertisers is so high that its actually economically viable. So we see tv's been just like we see search spend.

Speaker Change: We looked at to attribute.

Speaker Change: But we're actually working on that too. So we don't plan on TV. This year, if you see us on television anytime you see us on television it means that.

Speaker Change: We are investing in the most expensive channel to acquire customers because our.

Operator: And as it's profitable for our clients to spend, we feel that they'll be spending back into it this year. Great, appreciate all the comments. Thank you. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from John Campbell of Stevens. Hey, guys. Good morning.

Speaker Change: Client forum at prices that.

Speaker Change: That makes sense for us to do that so I love. It when we can be spending big on TV, because that means where we.

Speaker Change: We can't go grab any more volume from from online.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you Doug.

Speaker Change: Thank you one moment for our next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Melissa looked out of Jpmorgan.

Melissa: Good morning, Thanks for taking my questions.

John Campbell: Hey, I wanted to stay on the insurance segment and Outlook. Obviously, it was encouraging to see you guys, you know, to see the snapback activity in December. It looks like your 1Q Outlook seems like, obviously, a continuation of strength and then share gains as well, but I'm curious about how you guys are thinking about the sequential lift coming out of 1Q and then maybe just more broadly how the shape of that curve is going to look. I know the exact timing is going to be difficult to pin down, so maybe if you guys could also talk about whether you think the puzzle pieces are in place to maybe reach new peaks Trent, I'm going to let you, when you're talking about the curve, are you talking about everything, or are you just talking about insurance?

Melissa: First I just wanted to clarify I apologize.

Melissa: Thank you Scott.

Melissa: But did I hear you right you are looking for double digit year over year growth in the insurance segment and <unk>.

Scott Perry: Yes in both revenue and DMD.

Speaker Change: Okay got it thanks for clarifying that.

Speaker Change: Can you talk about what the implications are given on margin.

Speaker Change: Just kind of throughout the year and how you expect that to progress kind of across the various segments. Thanks. So much.

Speaker Change: So I'll hit this and then Scott you should go into it in detail.

Scott Perry: When you look at <unk> margin.

Scott Perry: That's where we.

Scott Perry: I'm kidding, we focus on VM dollars not DMM percentages.

Scott Perry: So as you spend so as clients are upping their beds, we turnaround and up our.

Scott Perry: Bids to go get customers.

Scott Perry: And so you do see some decrease in margin.

Trent Ziegler: Just within insurance for now. Um, John, just from in terms of the guide, I mean, we're obviously monitoring this and, in real time, we see what we see in q1, which has been, you know, a really strong sign of where things are headed. Kind of like Doug's commentary around our outlook for home and consumer and what we baked in, we've taken a fairly conservative stance here, right. And so we assume, um, as the year progresses, we're not baking in a ton of upside. That said, obviously, we do feel like the recovery could become more broad-based, and I think Scott can add some color commentary to that.

Scott Perry: But what we're doing in insurance, we're seeing that we can.

Scott Perry: Come back and drive volume at.

Scott Perry: At margins that are still pretty good.

Scott Perry: Almost in line with where they were last year Scott.

Scott Perry: And under that.

Scott Perry: Yes.

Scott Perry: Melissa.

Scott Perry: Started in insurance.

Scott Perry: Q1, our margins are still very strong.

Scott Perry: Historical standpoint.

Scott Perry: Maybe down slightly over Q4 of it but very.

Scott Perry: Hi, Scott said I mean as as the recovery continues in revenue growth happens across the board media will get more especially on margin will come down a little bit, but as Doug as I've said, it's about increasing total BMD dollars in.

Trent Ziegler: Yeah, I'll add in there, John. I would say, as Trent said, I think, especially with whatever happened in Q1 last year, we went from a forecasting perspective, we want to be conservative until our clients, you know, we bake in some of the guaranteed budgets from our clients. Now, that said, all of our conversations with our clients, broad based across the board, are that they are very happy, very profitable, and are going to continue expanding geos as the year goes on. You know, just anecdotally.

Scott Perry: That's our focus there and we will lean into.

Scott Perry: Traffic and revenue this profitable for our clients.

Scott Perry: And make some additional BMD dollars for us I would say.

Scott Perry: On on the mortgage side Youre, probably until you start seeing a recovery you are probably just staying fairly.

Scott Perry: We're running at a pretty good margins right now.

Scott Perry: Youre not really looking to squeeze those modules for traffic until you start seeing more of a broad based recovery and refinanced. The one that said like home equity there is a lot of growth opportunity I believe in home equity.

Scott Peyree: I would expect continued sequential growth, quarter after quarter, as the year goes on. Unless some major macro event happens, it's a very broad-based... recovery insurance. There's a lot of profitability across the board. We are already getting I mean, there were a few carriers that were opening geos in March that as of a month or two ago, we thought it would be the end of the year before they opened up any new geos. So I think there is a snowball effect that's happening. The snowball is rolling down the hill.

Scott Perry: In the current and near term on the consumer side I do think Ana.

Scott Perry: Honestly I think we're probably currently leaving some BMD dollars on the table by by running very strong margins, which were running very strong margins right now but that is something.

Scott Perry: We're going to actively look into is to see if we can reinvest in certain areas and gain gain market share and increase our total DMD dollars by running a bit slimmer margins.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you again, if you have a question. Please press star one one on your Touchtone telephone one moment for our next question.

Scott Peyree: And from my standpoint, I am extremely optimistic about continued growth throughout the year. Okay, that's very helpful. And then maybe, maybe for Doug here, this is kind of a near term, medium term question, as well as kind of a bigger picture question, just two parts question, but on the brand spend, I think you guys closed this year at 8.9 million. That was, you know, closer to 30 million the last three years, maybe a little bit higher than that, you know, years prior to that. So curious about what you guys have kind of outlined for this year, how much of that is fully committed, and then, bigger picture, what you're thinking about, you know, as far as brand spend is concerned, is that something you expect to ratchet higher over time? Or is this just a new kind of normal, lower level at this point?

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Jamie Friedman of Susquehanna International Group.

Speaker Change: Hi.

James Eric Friedman: I wanted to ask about student loan repayments. So was just wondering how if at all that the resumption of student loans.

Around October effect say, the lending partners sentiment towards loan originations.

James Eric Friedman: Consumer behavior any color on student loans it would be helpful.

James Eric Friedman: Scott.

Thanks.

Scott Perry: Hi, yes.

Scott Perry: Hello, Jamie.

Scott Perry: That was a lot of discussion.

Scott Perry: About six months ago, what was going to happen there and I think the short answer is a lot of nothing at this point.

Scott Perry: That came through.

Scott Perry: Due to loan repayments started or semi started however, you want to define that.

Scott Perry: From a broad based perspective from our clients. There was no significant change in defaults or delinquency rates based off of that that they are seeing.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So, so the way, really, really great question. And LendingTree benefits from the fact that we started with TV spend in the year 2000 instead of doing a, that AOL at the time. And it proved that we could drive consumers profitably through TV. We then got our online act together.

Scott Perry: More of a broad.

Scott Perry: I think that's where there is just generally a lot of semi caution and a lot of the consumer lending business is right now.

Scott Perry: Defaults were starting to creep back up last year is what are they going to level out that I'd say outside of credit cards, where we sit right now most of these businesses small business personal loans.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And that brand obviously helps our online; we have zero assumption of brand spend this year. And the way the advertising works is you only really get a... attribute, but we're actually working on that too. So, we don't plan on TV this year.

Scott Perry: They have kind of leveled off at the pre COVID-19 levels. So.

Scott Perry: Not really people or the.

Scott Perry: The clients are cautious there, but they are feeling optimistic that.

Scott Perry: <unk> is just starting to level off and I don't think they really saw the impact that they thought might happen from student loan repayments restarting.

Douglas Robert Lebda: If you see us on TV, anytime you see us on TV, it means that we are investing in the most expensive channel to acquire customers because of our Client Forum at prices that make sense. So I love it when we can be spending big on TV because that means we can't go and grab any more volume from online. Okay. Thank you, Doug. Thank you. Please take a moment for our next question. And our next question comes from Melissa Waddell of J.P. Morgan. Good morning.

Okay. Thanks, Scott and then for the follow up I was just wondering.

Speaker Change: Are you largely done with the restructuring now and if so.

Speaker Change: If not either way how would those improvements flow through to potential operating efficiency in 2024.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Yes, we are done with restructuring.

Speaker Change: And we have contingency plans if god forbid.

There was another cataclysm and our economy.

Operator: Thanks for taking my questions. First, I just wanted to clarify. I apologize. I think that, But did I hear you right?

Speaker Change: And so we are largely done the good there is something else that came from there.

Okay.

Speaker Change: We now.

Speaker Change: No where every dollar is going and what the return on that dollar is maybe not quite every dollar yet, but pretty darn close and so now we can.

Melissa Waddell: You're looking for double-digit year-over-year growth in the insurance segment in OneQ? Yes, and both revenue and BMD. Okay, I got it.

Speaker Change: If we add back staff it'll be like.

Speaker Change: Hey, if we hired 10, new salespeople, we can go get X more clients and get that much more demand in the 10 salespeople will have an ROI that will pay off if we.

Scott Peyree: Thanks for clarifying that. Can you talk about what the implications are given on margin just kind of throughout the year and how you expect that to progress kind of across the various segments? Thanks so much.

Speaker Change: Push our AI investments faster.

Speaker Change: That would.

Speaker Change: Output or else, we wouldn't be investing in it.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So I'll hit on this and then Scott, you should go into it in detail. When you look at VMM margin, that's where we, as marketing, focus on VMM dollars, not VMM percentages. So as you spend in, as clients are upping their bids, we turn around and up our bids to get customers. And, and so you do see some decrease in the market. But we're doing it in insurance. We're seeing that we can come back and drive volume at margins that are still pretty good, that are almost in line with where they were last year. Scott, do you want to add on to that?

Speaker Change: Do we can we do some of those things as they come back and as your unit economics improve all of a sudden like the projects that you had before that didn't make sense.

Speaker Change: Those economics will now they started making.

Speaker Change: And so there is definitely more work to do as we go to what I would call.

Speaker Change: Managed growth.

Speaker Change: And we can manage our growth from here any increase in expenses or I would say.

Speaker Change: 90, plus percent of them would be.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Hi.

Speaker Change: At the conference.

Speaker Change: Perfect. Thank you both.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Showing any further questions at this time I would like to turn it back to Doug Lebda for closing remarks.

Douglas Robert Lebda: I would like to thank everyone on this call.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Like everyone. In this call to know we're passionate about continuing to improve our business. Our team is focused on driving better outcomes for both our partners and our concern on our customers through enhanced routing of inquiries smarter and smarter matching of existing offers we are encouraged by the growth. We are experiencing in our insurance segment and look forward to eventually.

Scott Peyree: And that's our focus there. And we will lean into, you know, traffic and revenue that's profitable for our clients and make some additional VMD dollars for us. I would say, you know, on the mortgage side, you're probably, until you start seeing a recovery, you're probably just staying at fairly, we're running pretty good margins right now; you're not really looking to squeeze those margins for traffic until you start seeing more of a broad-based recovery, you know, and refinance and whatnot. Now, that said, like, home equity, there's a lot of growth On the consumer side, I do think, you know, honestly, that we're probably currently leaving some VMD dollars on the table by running very strong margins, which we're running very strong margins right now, but that is something we are going to actively look into to see if we can reinvest in certain areas and gain market share and increase our total VMD dollars by running a bit slimmer margin. Thank you. Thank you.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Pairing that with an inflection in our home and consumer businesses to drive significantly improved financial performance.

Speaker Change: And thank you all for being here and we look forward to talking to you in next quarter.

Speaker Change: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.

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Operator: Again, if you have a question, please press star 11 on your touchtone telephone. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from Jamie Friedman of Susquehanna National Group. The Bulletproof Executive 2013, Hi, I wanted to ask about student loan repayments.

Sure.

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Speaker Change: Thanks.

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James Eric Friedman: So I was just wondering how, if at all, the resumption of student loans around October affected, say, the lending partner sentiment towards loan originations or, you know, consumer behavior. Any color on student loans would be helpful. Scott. I'm going to take. Yeah, hello, Jamie.

Speaker Change: Okay.

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Scott Peyree: Yeah, that was a lot of discussion, you know, about six months ago, about what was going to happen there. And I think the short answer is a lot of nothing at this point. That came through, still optional loan repayments started or semi-started, however you want to define that.

Speaker Change: Yes.

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Speaker Change: Okay.

Scott Peyree: From a broad-based perspective from our clients, there was no significant change in defaults or delinquency rates based on that that they're seeing. It's more of a broad, you know, I think that's where there's just generally a lot of semi-caution in a lot of the consumer lending businesses right now as defaults were, you know, starting to creep back up last year. Where are they going to level I'd say outside of credit cards where we sit right now, most of these businesses, small business, personal loans have kind of leveled off at pre-COVID levels. So it's not really, people are, the clients are cautious there, but they're feeling optimistic that the fall rates are starting to level off, and I don't think they really saw the impact that they thought might happen from student loan repayments restarting. Okay, thanks, Scott. And then for the follow up, I was just wondering, are you largely done with the restructuring now? And if so, or if not, either way, how would those improvements flow through to potential operating efficiency in 2020?

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Yes.

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Douglas Robert Lebda: Yes, we are done with restructuring. And we have contingency plans, if God forbid, you know, there was another cataclysm in our economy. And so we are largely done with the good, and there's something else that came from it. Thank you. Thank you. We now know where every dollar is going and what the return on that dollar is. Maybe not quite every dollar yet, but pretty darn close.

Speaker Change: Okay.

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Douglas Robert Lebda: And so now we can, if we add back staff, it'll be like, Hey, if we hire 10 new salespeople, we can go get x more clients and get that much more demand, and the 10 salespeople will have an ROI that will pay off. If we push our AI investments faster, you know, that would, http://TheBusinessProfessor.com, And can we do some of those things as they come back? And as your unit economics improves? All of a sudden, like the projects that you had before that didn't make sense, you know, those economics, well, now they start making sense. And so there's definitely more work to do as we go to what I would call managed growth, and we can manage our growth from here. Any increase in expenses, or I would say... 90 plus plus percent of them would be perfect. Thank you both.

Speaker Change: Okay.

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Operator: Thank you. I'm not asking any further questions at this time. I would like to turn it back to Doug Lebda for closing remarks. I would like to thank everyone on this call. Like everyone in this call to know, we are passionate about continuing to improve our business. Our team is focused on driving better outcomes for both our partners and our consumers and our customers, through enhanced routing of inquiries and smarter matching of existing offers. We are encouraged by the growth we are experiencing in our insurance segment and look forward to eventually pairing that with an inflection in our home and consumer businesses to drive significantly improved financial performance. And thank you all for being here, and we look forward to talking to you in the next quarter. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect. Thank you for watching!

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Operator: Thanks for watching! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? Copyright © 2020, New Thinking Allowed Foundation, ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the LendingTree Incorporated fourth quarter 2023 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode.

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Andrew N. Wessel: Thank you, Dede, and good morning to everyone joining us on the call to discuss LendingTree's fourth quarter 2023 financial results. With us on the call today are Doug Lebda, LendingTree's chairman and CEO, Scott Peyree, COO and president of Marketplace Businesses, and Trent Ziegler, CFO. As a reminder to everyone, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our investor relations website earlier today. And for the purposes of today's call, we will assume that listeners have read that letter, and we'll focus on Q&A. Before I hand the call over to Doug for his remarks, I remind everyone that during today's call, we may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance. However, any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risk and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many, but not all, of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the FEC.

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Douglas Robert Lebda: Despite the revenue challenges we continue to navigate, we remain solidly profitable and maintain the ability to strategically invest in the company. All three of our reportable segments have operated through a historic period of disruption, following a rapid move higher in interest rates in this period of elevated interest rates. And at the same time, our business model has again proven its durability, as we earned $78.5 million of adjusted EBITDA this year and generated $55 million of free cash. As our lender and insurance partners broadly pulled back from new customers because of these external factors, we chose to focus on efficiency, causing our operating margins to steadily increase throughout the year. In the fourth quarter, we earned $15.5 million, which is normally a seasonally softer quarter for us.

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Douglas Robert Lebda: Now that insurers have effectively passed through numerous rounds of pricing, they have returned to a more robust pace of marketing. Fortunately, our customers continue to shop for new policies at record levels, with volumes increasing 10% compared to a year ago. During the quarter, we also repurchased $100 million of our 2025 convertible notes at a discount to par value, similar to the transaction we completed earlier in the year. We now have opportunistically paid down half of the original $575 million amount of the debt at about a 20% discount, and we remain committed to retiring the remainder in the most efficient manner possible for our shareholders. Finally, the financial outlook we released this morning assumes continued improvement in the insurance segment compared to last year.

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Speaker Change: Good day and thank you for standing by welcome to the Lendingtree incorporated fourth quarter 2023 earnings Conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode.

Douglas Robert Lebda: We have taken what we believe to be a conservative view for our home and consumer lending, payment, continued dislocations in the housing market, and persistently tighter lending standards at many of our consumer partners. However, due to the extensive work we've done right-sizing our expense base, we're now forecasting our adjusted EBITDA will grow at a healthy pace from last year as we hold fixed costs near current levels. If the revenue picture improves, we would expect this operating leverage to positively impact our bottom line. And now, Operator, please open the line. Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again.

Speaker Change: After the Speakers' presentation, there will be a question and answer session to ask a question. During the session you will need to press star one on your telephone you will then hear an automated message advising that youre hengist raised to withdraw your question. Please press star one again please.

Speaker Change: Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

Speaker Change: I would now like to hand, the conference over to your Speaker today, Andrew Wessel VP of Investor Relations and corporate development. Please go ahead.

Andrew N. Wessel: Thank you <unk> and good morning to everyone joining us on the call to discuss lending fees fourth quarter 2023 financial results.

Operator: One moment for our first question, and our first question comes from Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer & Company. Hey, great. Just two, if I may.

Andrew N. Wessel: With us on the call today are Doug Lebda, Lendingtree, as chairman and CEO, Scott Perry, COO, and president of marketplace businesses and Trent Ziegler CFO.

Jed Kelly: One in the consumer segment. Can you talk about just on the outlook, how much of the growth is that you control sort of based on, you know, improving conversion, sort of maybe clawing back some of the market share losses versus what's going on in the macro? And then, you know, it looks like the Fed's gonna, you know, push out interest rate cuts. Can you just talk about how that impacts your outlook? And then how do you think about potentially refinancing the convert? Thanks. Sure. Let me take the second part of that on home.

Andrew N. Wessel: As a reminder to everyone. We posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our Investor Relations website earlier today.

Andrew N. Wessel: And for the purposes of today's call, we will assume that listeners have read that letter and we will focus on Q&A.

Scott Perry: Before I hand, the call over to Doug for his remarks, I'll remind everyone that during today's call. We may discuss when increased expectations for future performance.

Scott Perry: Any forward looking statements that we make are.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Risks and uncertainties and Lendingtree is actual results to differ materially from the views expressed today.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Many but not all of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC we.

Douglas Robert Lebda: We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call today and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter both available on our website for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Let me have, You can actually take the operational pieces on consumer, but I would say at this high level, Jed, our outlook in terms of controlling it and not controlling it, what I would say is when you look at LendingTree as a balance of supply and all of your advertisers, all of your clients, obviously, we right-sized the marketing, right-sized the business to get that right. We believe that every one of those segments is now at its bottom.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And with that Doug. Please go ahead.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Thank you Andrew and thank you to all who are with us on the call today and 2023, we strategically simplified our business reduced our fixed expense base strengthened our balance roofing margins. Despite the revenue challenges we continue to navigate we remain solidly profitable and maintain the ability to.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Strategically invest in the company.

Douglas Robert Lebda: All three of our reportable segments of operated three historic period of disruption following a rapid move higher in interest rates.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And now, all you're waiting for in the consumer is better credit, so that we can lean into the market. So any conversion rate improvements, anything from our initiatives, we have a little bit baked in to our outlook from our TreeQual initiative, for example, that's starting to bear some real fruit, and our lenders are really liking it, and we have a really robust pipeline there. So we've baked in a little bit for some of the things that we know that we're pretty certain are going to happen, and we can also still invest in the business. So I feel really, really comfortable about the guide we're giving.

This period of elevated inflation.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And at the same time, our business model has again proven its durability as we earned $78 $5 million of adjusted EBITDA, This year and generated $55 million of free cash flow.

Douglas Robert Lebda: As our lenders and insurance partners broadly pulled back from new.

Douglas Robert Lebda: The customers of these external factors last year, we chose to focus on efficiency, causing our operating margins to steadily increase throughout the year.

Douglas Robert Lebda: In the fourth quarter, we earned $15 $5 million, which is normally a seasonally softer quarter for us encouragingly the much anticipated upturn in our in our insurance segment began to take hold in December and has continued to strengthen into the first quarter.

Douglas Robert Lebda: I think it's also shown significant growth. 2012 University of Georgia College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences UGA Extension Office of Communications and Creative Services. As soon as the thing that people miss about our business is that when rates start to fall even a little bit, our business in home and refinance mortgages moves with the rate of change, so you don't need. You only get a little tick down, call it a quarter, half a point in mortgage rates. And you will have a whole bunch of borrowers today that are coming through our funnel that doesn't make sense for them to refinance. And it will once conditions improve a little bit.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Consumer auto and home insurance markets have endured a prolonged hard market cycle over the last two years that is in many ways unprecedented driven by the inflationary impacts to loss.

Douglas Robert Lebda: The following after Covid Lockdowns now.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Now that insurers have effectively pass through numerous rounds of price increases they have returned to a more robust pace of marketing spend.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Fortunately our customers continue to shop for new policies at record levels with volumes, increasing 10% compared to a year ago.

Douglas Robert Lebda: During the quarter, we also repurchased $100 million of our 2025 convertible notes at a discount to par value similar to the transaction. We completed earlier in the year. We now have opportunistically pay down half of the original 575 million dollar amount of these notes at about a 20% discount and we remain committed.

Scott Peyree: Trent, any add on anything there and Trent talk about the... Yeah, yeah, thanks, Doug. This is Scott Peyree. Hello, Jed, how are you doing this morning? Just just to add on real quick to some of Doug's comments there, you know, I would start to say in the consumer lending side of the businesses, a lot of those items, from a consumer's perspective, aren't, they're not quite as rate sensitive, you know, if you're looking at personal loans, or small business loans, or credit cards, these are more just consumers that need money and are seeking out money. And, We did, as we've had a lot of focus over the past year in optimizing the business, both from an opex perspective, but then also just from a media performance and marketing performance perspective, you know, I'll, I'll be honest, I said, we probably gave up a little bit of market share, we probably let the pendulum swing a little too far to the optimization side that but that said, I think we're in a very, very good position right now where our business is very profitable on a unit economic basis.

Douglas Robert Lebda: To retiring the remainder in the most efficient mammal manner possible for our shareholders.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Finally, the financial outlook. We released this morning assumes continued improvement in the insurance segment compared to last year.

Douglas Robert Lebda: We have taken what we believe to be a conservative view for our home and consumers.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Given the continued dislocations in the housing market and persistently tighter lending standards at many of our consumer partners. However, due to the extensive work we've done right sizing our expense base. We're now forecasting our adjusted EBITDA will grow at a healthy pace from last year as we hope fixed costs near current levels.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Extending the revenue picture improves we would expect as operating leverage to positively impact our bottom line.

Speaker Change: And now operator, please open the line for questions.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: Thank you as a reminder to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone.

Speaker Change: For your name to be announced to withdraw your question. Please press star one again.

Speaker Change: One moment for our first question.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: And our first question comes from Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer and company.

Jed Kelly: Great just two if I may one and the consumer segment can you talk about just on the outlook how much of the growth is that you control sort of based on improving conversion.

Scott Peyree: And we are ready and are actively leaning into multiple areas of opportunity. I mean, we're already seeing strong sequential growth in our home equity business and really strong sequential growth in our small business area. We're also seeing growth in purchase and refi and auto loans sequentially. So even though they're coming off of lows, we are now pivoting the business back to growth mode. And as those interest rates have leveled, it does change consumer psychology, even though they remain elevated, that there is a large quantity of consumers coming through and searching for loans on a day-to-day basis. Hey Trent, talk about the refinance. Yeah Jed, can you repeat the question on the refinance? Yeah, let me hit it first.

Jed Kelly: Maybe clawing back some of the market share losses versus what's going on in the macro and then it looks like the fed is going to push out the interest rate cuts can you just talk about how that impacts your outlook is that how you think about potentially refinancing the convert thanks sure let me take the.

Speaker Change: The second part of that on home when they have to.

Speaker Change: Next week.

The operational pieces on consumer.

Speaker Change: But I would say that it's high level Jed our outlook.

In terms of controlling it and not controlling it what I would say is this.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So Jed, it was how long... all that with the credit. From my perspective, the credit markets have definitely improved a little bit. We continue to have conversations Trent add on more, but you know we're pretty confident that we'll be able to handle that. Why don't you take an ad on anything else?

Speaker Change: When you look at Lendingtree is a balance of supply and demand.

Speaker Change: And all of your advertisers all of your clients are pulling back.

Speaker Change: Obviously, we rightsize the marketing right size the business to get that right. We believe that every one of those segments is now at its bottom.

Speaker Change: And now all you are waiting for and consumer is better credit.

Speaker Change: So that we could lean into marketing so any conversion rate improvements anything from our initiatives, we have a little bit baked in to our outlook from our tree Qual initiative. For example, that's starting to bear some real fruit and our lenders are really liking it.

Speaker Change: And really robust pipeline there.

Speaker Change: So we baked in some a little bit for some of the things that we know that we're pretty certain they're going to happen.

Speaker Change: And we also can still invest in the business. So I feel really really comfortable about.

Speaker Change: The guide, we're giving I think it's also showing significant growth.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: As soon as the thing that people Miss about our business is that.

Speaker Change: When rates start to fall, even a little bit our business in home and refinance moves with.

Speaker Change: The rate of change of interest rates, So you don't need.

Speaker Change: A little tick down call it a quarter half a point in mortgage rates and you will have a whole bunch of borrowers today that are coming through our funnels that doesn't make sense for them to refinance and it will.

Operator: One moment for our next question, and our next question comes from Yousef Squali of Tourist Security. Good morning.

Speaker Change: Once conditions improve a little bit Scott.

Speaker Change: Any add on anything there and try and talk about the refinancings.

Speaker Change: Yeah, Yeah. Thanks, Doug This is Scott Perry.

Hamed Khorsand: So, maybe just stepping back a little bit at a high level and kind of following up on the macro question, as you were formulating your 2024 outlook, can you just talk about what you are baking as a base case for, and I guess what I'm really trying to get to is, could you hit your guidance of flat revenues across the entire business if rates stay startlingly high? And then, can you maybe just talk a little bit about the competitive landscape across the three segments that Todd just talked about, maybe on the consumer side, how you guys pulled back a little bit, lost a bit of share? How are you, how did you do across the other two segments, and how are you kind of positioned as you enter 2024?

Scott Perry: Joe Hi, Joe This morning.

Scott Perry: Just to add on real quick to some of Doug's comments there.

Scott Perry: To say in the consumer lending side of the business. There's a lot of those items from a consumer's perspective aren't they're not quite as rate sensitive if youre looking at personal loans or small business loans or credit cards. These are more just consumers that need money and are seeking out money.

Scott Perry: Hi.

Scott Perry: We did as we've had a lot of focus over the past year.

Scott Perry: In optimizing the business both from an Opex perspective, but then also just from a meal.

Scott Perry: Media performance and marketing performance perspective.

Scott Perry: I'll be honest I said, we probably gave up a little bit of market share, we probably let the pendulum swing a little too far.

Hamed Khorsand: Thank you. Yes, So, Yusuf, I understand it for the macro for our guide and talk about competition. Yeah, okay. So our base case assumed The Hire for Longer of you, and we're not baking in, any, you know, that our guidance is Baking In, and Finn Rape, and or you know, strong consumer credit conditions at PL lenders or things like that, so we're not everything that we're doing from here on out is that you see is managing the business as it is today, baking in initiatives that we know are happening. Let me and then let Scott drill down.

Scott Perry: The optimization side of that but that said I think we're in a very very good position right now where our business is very profitable on a unit economic basis, and we are ready.

Scott Perry: Area. We're also seeing we're also seeing growth in our purchase and refi in auto loans.

Sequentially, so even though they're coming off of lows we are now.

Scott Perry: Pivoting the business.

Douglas Robert Lebda: The good news about this space now is that we have a defined set of competitors in both insurance and lending for lead generation or comparison shopping. And you can all compare. We feel that we are absolutely gaining share and doing well and doing very, very well in insurance, and we think that to the extent that we lost share to competitors, that is simply due to, as Scott said earlier, when we were working on our marketing last year, we, you know, reduced a lot of bids and managed our Google stuff very differently, and managed our advertising broadly very differently. And now, you know, we can lean back in and regain some of that share simply by marketing into the better unit economics that Scott talked about. Scott, why don't you hit anything else on the uncomfortable?

Scott Perry: Back to growth mode, and as interest rates have leveled it does change the consumer psychology, even though they remain elevated that there is a.

Scott Perry: A large quantity of consumers coming through and searching for loans on a day to day basis.

Great question.

Speaker Change: Talking about the refinance yes Jed.

Jed Kelly: Can you repeat the question on the.

So Jed it was how long.

Jed Kelly: And so that was the.

Jed Kelly: Credit from my perspective, the credit markets have definitely improved.

Jed Kelly: A little bit we continue to have conversations strengthen.

Jed Kelly: Add on more but.

Jed Kelly: We're pretty confident that we'll be able to handle that.

Speaker Change: Why don't you take the add on anything else and we feel that wherever.

Speaker Change: Wherever we would be we wouldn't be taking on a debt load.

Speaker Change: But we couldnt handle we think the company's unruly sound financial footing.

Speaker Change: Yes, as it relates to the balance sheet Jed I mean, obviously we've.

Scott Peyree: Yeah, just a high level use on the competitive landscape. I'll start in insurance. I think we are positioned extremely well in the insurance space. You know, I believe from everyone that's reported, we're the only company that's looking at growth year-over-year in Q1 in both revenue and VMD and growth on a double-digit percentage basis in both of those categories. So, you know, and it's pretty wide across the board.

Speaker Change: We did a lot of work last year to make that a much more manageable number.

Speaker Change: We've continued to explore for the last three or four quarters, we've been having a bunch of conversations.

Speaker Change: So we feel pretty good about our ability to.

Speaker Change: To address that maturity.

Speaker Change: In the first half of this year.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you one moment for our next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Youssef Squali of tourist Securities.

Youssef Squali: Good morning.

Youssef Squali: So.

Youssef Squali: Maybe just stepping back a little bit.

Youssef Squali: At a high level kind of following up on that.

Youssef Squali: Macro question as you were formulated in your 2024 outlook can you just talked about what you are <unk> as a base case.

Youssef Squali: I guess, what I'm really trying to get to is could you hit your guidance of flat revenues across the entire business if rates stay stable.

Youssef Squali: And then can you maybe just talk a little bit about the competitive landscape across the three segments.

Youssef Squali: <unk> talked about maybe on the consumer side are you guys pulled back a little bit lost a bit of share.

Scott Peyree: So, we are controlling a massive amount of very high-intent, high-quality consumers. So, I believe we've done a very good job of increasing our piece of the pie during the downturn and are positioned well to maintain that piece of the pie we increased as growth comes back. And I'll step back and say this is going to be a broad-based recovery. There are lots of good companies in our business that have good relationships with clients. Everyone's going to be rewarded during the insurance recovery that's going to happen over the next 24, 36 months, and it's happening very rapidly. So, I think we're going to be an outsized winner of that, but I think everyone's going to be a winner of that recovery. Hitting on the mortgage quickly, you know...

Youssef Squali: How are you how did you do.

Youssef Squali: The other two segments and how are you kind of positioned as you.

Speaker Change: Thank you, yes, so use if I understand it.

Speaker Change: Case, assuming for the macro for our guide and talk.

Speaker Change: Talk about competition.

I get that right.

Speaker Change: Yes, okay.

Speaker Change: So our base case assumed.

Speaker Change: The higher for longer.

Speaker Change: Great.

Speaker Change: And we're not baking in.

Speaker Change: Any.

Speaker Change: Our nothing in our guidance is.

Speaker Change: Baking in.

Speaker Change: Fed rate cuts.

Speaker Change: Or.

Speaker Change: A strong.

Speaker Change: Consumer credit conditions.

At PL lenders or things like that so we're not everything that we're doing from here on out is.

Speaker Change: But you see us managing the business as it is today baking in.

Speaker Change: Initiatives that we know are happening on competition.

Scott Peyree: I feel we maintain, even though it's, you know, it's in a severe downturn right now, we pretty much maintain a very dominant position in the mortgage space. We have extremely close relationships with the biggest players in that space, but we also have what I would call the broadest distribution network from a client perspective as well. We have much more clients and a broader client distribution in mortgage, purchase, refi, and home equity than our competitive set does. On the consumer side, that's probably the one area where we've struggled more than the other two categories, but it's also an area where I would say I have the most optimism because there still remains a lot of consumer demand. There has been a level of consistency with our clients over the past three months that we have not seen in over a year.

Speaker Change: And then let Scott drill down.

Speaker Change: The good news about this space now is we have a defined set of competitors.

In both insurance and lending.

Speaker Change: In lead generation or comparison shopping and you can all comparable.

We resolved two.

Speaker Change: Feel that we're absolutely gaining share and doing well and doing very very well in insurance and we think that to the extent that we lost share.

Speaker Change: Two competitors that is simply due to as Scott I'll put a finer point on something that Scott said earlier, when we were working.

Speaker Change: Working on our marketing last year, we reduced our out of bids and manage our Google stuff very differently.

Speaker Change: Manage our advertising broadly very differently and now.

Speaker Change: We can lean back in and regain some of that share simply by marketing into the better unit economics that Scott talked about Scott why don't you hit anything else on competition.

Scott Perry: Yeah, just high level on the competitive landscape I'll start and insurers I think we are positioned.

Scott Perry: Extremely well in the insurance space I believe from everyone. That's reported we're the only company that's looking at <unk>.

Scott Perry: <unk> growth year over year in Q1 in both revenue and BMD and growth on a double digit percentage basis and both of those categories. So.

Operator: Thank you. One moment for the next question. And our next question comes from Ryan Tomasello of KBW. Hi everyone, thanks for taking the questions. Just to put a finer point around the conversion, how committed is the company to avoiding equity link dilution when addressing that maturity? And Trent, just to clarify, in your earlier remark, did you say you're optimistic you can address that in the first half of this year, or did I hear that wrong? That's right. A good question, Ryan. Yeah, look, I mean, we obviously are sensitive to dilution, right?

Scott Perry: And its pretty wide at Contura, our health insurance business had an all time high year last year and revenue in BMD, both Q4 and the year as a whole that's a very strong business for US are local agent business is very strong for US January was our all time high revenue for local agent revenue with also the highest quantity of.

Scott Perry: Of agents buying leads from us as ever it's ever been.

Scott Perry: Paid search.

Scott Perry: The quote requests are nearly triple what they were from 2021 levels. So we're controlling a massive amount of very high intent high quality consumers.

Scott Perry: So I believe there we've done a very good job of increasing our piece of the pie.

Trent Ziegler: As we've been exploring the various alternatives, obviously, those alternatives are not great. When our stock was 10 a share, they were becoming more interesting at, you know, 35 a share, but also, our fundamentals and just the cash flow and debt service that we can support make us feel pretty confident that we don't have to use dilution as a means to address the maturity. Yeah, that's... You know, that's point number one.

Scott Perry: During the downturn.

Scott Perry: And are positioned well to maintain that piece of the pie and we increased it as growth comes back and I'll step back and say this is going to be a broad based recovery. There is lots of good companies in our business to have good relationships with the clients that everyone's going to be rewarded during the insurance recovery, that's going to happen over the next 24 to 36 months and it's happening very rapidly so.

Scott Perry: I think we're going to be an outside as the winner of that but I think everyone's going to be a winner of that recovery.

Trent Ziegler: And then, you know, it has always been our stated goal that we want to address this thing before it goes into effect in July of this year, and we intend to continue to try to find the best path to doing so. And the only thing I'd add is, as we started this process, I am as much personally and corporately as we focus on shareholders, brief areas of delusion on that, and, As Trent said, we feel good that we can do this non-profitably. Okay, great.

Scott Perry: Hitting on mortgage quickly.

Scott Perry: I feel we made to even though it's in.

Scott Perry: The severe downturn right now we pretty much maintained a very dominant position in the mortgage space. We've got extremely close relationships with the biggest players in that space, but we also have what I would call. The broadest distribution network from a client perspective, as well we have much more clients and broader client.

Scott Perry: <unk> in mortgage purchase refi home equity dinner, a competitive set does.

Scott Peyree: And then, Scott, as a follow-up on the insurance, Business. You know, I'm just trying to understand if there are, how you view as this recovery takes shape, if there are any marketing channels in the space that are maybe better positioned to capture more spend or see that recovery sooner than other areas, you know, among SEM, direct-to-click, you know, direct carrier versus agents. Just trying to understand how LendingTree, Quo Wizard, is relatively positioned versus the competition. Thanks.

Scott Perry: On the consumer side, that's probably the one area, where we struggled.

Scott Perry: Struggled more than the other two categories, but it's also an area where I would say I have some of the most optimism because there still remains a lot of consumer demand there is.

Scott Perry: Ben just a level of consistency with our clients over the past three months that we have not seen in over a year. So now that we've reached a level of consistency is going to make it much easier for us to lean into growth opportunities and lean in the media opportunities. So I think we're going to see I think youre going to see over the next.

Scott Perry: Year are starting to gain some of that market share back.

Speaker Change: That's helpful. Thank you both.

Scott Peyree: Yeah, I mean, when you look at a recovery in an industry, in any industry, I mean, insurance included, but I think what the client is going to go after first is the highest quality, highest intent, most profitable consumers for them. And I think we have done a very good job over the past two years with a laser focus on increasing our position in the various marketplaces where those highest quality consumers are. And, you know, honestly, Ryan, I think that is what's given us some outsized budget in the early days of the recovery. Now, as the recovery broadens, as the year goes on, carriers are going to open up the kimono of their budgets more fully to all the competitive landscape, and that's where you transition, and you probably have to, the margins have to come down a little bit to maintain your positioning, but I think it's a lot easier to maintain positioning than to try to grow positioning, and we've done a lot of growing our positioning And Ryan, I'd add to that what I really have loved about the insurance business. And I'm so happy to be that acquisition.

Speaker Change: Thank you one moment for the next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Ryan Thomas shallow of K B W.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Hi, Thanks for taking the questions.

Speaker Change: Just to put a finer point around the convert.

Speaker Change: How committed is the company to avoiding equity linked dilution when addressing that maturity.

Speaker Change: And trends just to clarify in your earlier remarks did you say youre optimistic you can address that in the first half of this year did I hear that wrong.

Speaker Change: Yeah, that's right.

Speaker Change: Yes, Ryan.

Ryan Thomas: Yes look I mean, we obviously are sensitive to dilution right as we've been exploring the various alternatives obviously those.

Ryan Thomas: The alternatives are not great when our stock was <unk> 10, a share there becoming more interesting.

Ryan Thomas: 35, a share but also our fundamentals and the just the cash flow and debt service that we can support make us feel pretty confident that that.

Ryan Thomas: We don't have to use dilution as a means to addressing addressing that maturity.

Ryan Thomas: So thats.

Ryan Thomas: That's 0.1 and then.

Ryan Thomas: It has always been our stated goal that we want to address the thing before it goes current in July of this year.

Ryan Thomas: And then to continue to try to find the best path to doing so.

Speaker Change: The only thing the only thing I'd add is as we.

Speaker Change: We started down this process.

Speaker Change: I am as much personally and corporately as we focus on shareholders there.

Speaker Change: Various dilution on on that end.

Speaker Change: As <unk> said, we feel.

Speaker Change: Good we can do this non dilutive way.

Speaker Change: Okay, Great and then Scott as a follow up on the insurance.

Speaker Change: Business.

Scott Perry: Im just trying to understand if there is.

How you view as this recovery takes shape, if theres any marketing channels. In this space that are maybe better positioned to capture more spend or see that recovery sooner than other areas. Among SCM direct to clinic direct carrier versus agents just trying to understand how the lending tree quote wizard is relatively position versus the competition.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And what Scott was leading there was sharpening the marketing pencil and getting ready for the recovery, but still maintaining great client relationships so that when they come back, we hopefully get more of the spend than our competitors. And then we have to be able to deliver to them the number of policies that they want. And as you know, sounds like you're very up to speed on the insurance businesses here. The carriers, some of them are better with direct-to-agent, some are better with call, and some are better with click.

Speaker Change: Jim Thanks.

Scott Perry: Yes.

Jim: Yes, I mean, I think when you look at our recovery.

Jim: And an interest in any industry insurance included but.

Jim: What the clients are going to go after first is the highest quality highest intent most profitable consumers.

Jim: For them and I think we have.

Jim: <unk> done a very good job over the past two years.

Jim: With a laser focus on increase increasing our position in the various marketplaces, where there were those highest quality consumers are and honestly right. I think that's that is what's given us some outsize budget in the early days of the recovery now as the recovery broadens as the year goes on.

Douglas Robert Lebda: Some events are better with lower intent, and the great thing... And some are auto, and some focus on homeowners. And the beautiful thing about all of that is we've got a very, very well-balanced portfolio of insurance channels where we can help our clients, based on what they want. And now Scott's leading that on the lending side. And I think we still have those very good relationships.

Jim: <unk>.

Jim: Carriers are going to open up the kimono of their budgets more fully to all to all the competitive landscape in and Thats for a transition and you probably have to the margins have to come down.

Jim: Little bit to maintain your positioning, but I think it's a lot easier to maintain positioning than to try to drill positioning and we've done a lot of growing our positioning over the past two years.

Speaker Change: And Ryan I would add to that.

Speaker Change: I really have loved about the insurance business.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And as it's profitable for our clients to spend, we feel that they'll be spending back into it this year. Great, appreciate all the comments. Thank you. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from John Campbell of Stevens. Hey, guys. Good morning.

Ryan Thomas: And so have we.

Ryan Thomas: At acquisition.

Ryan Thomas: At <unk>.

Ryan Thomas: Scott was leading there.

Ryan Thomas: Was sharpening the marketing pencil.

Ryan Thomas: And getting ready for the recovery, but still maintaining great client relationships. So that when they come back we hopefully get more of the spend than our competitors and then we have to be able to deliver to them.

Operator: Hey, I wanted to stay on the insurance segment and Outlook. Obviously, it was encouraging to see you guys, you know, to see the snapback activity in December. It looks like your 1Q Outlook seems like, obviously, a continuation of strength and then share gains as well. But I'm curious about how you guys are thinking about the sequential lift coming out of 1Q and then maybe just more broadly how the shape of that curve is going to look. I know the exact timing is going to be difficult to pin down, so maybe if you guys could also talk about whether you think the puzzle pieces are in place to maybe reach new peaks at some point this year in the insurance business. Trent, I'm going to let you. When you're talking about the curve, are you talking about everything, or are you just talking about insurance? Just within the limits of insurance for now.

Ryan Thomas: Number of policies that they won.

Ryan Thomas: And as you know.

Speaker Change: Sounds like you are very up to speed on the insurance.

Speaker Change: Businesses here.

Speaker Change: The carriers some of them are better with direct to agent. Some are better with calls some are better with clay.

Speaker Change: Okay or events or better with lower intent and the great thing.

Speaker Change: And some are auto and some focus in homeowners in the beauty beautiful thing about all of that is we've got a very very well balanced.

Speaker Change: Portfolio.

Speaker Change: <unk> channels.

Speaker Change: Where we can help.

Speaker Change: To help our clients.

Speaker Change: Holliday one.

Speaker Change: Great appreciate all the color.

Speaker Change: Thank you one moment for our next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from John Campbell of Stephens.

John Campbell: Hey, guys good morning.

Good morning.

Hey, I wanted to stay on the insurance segment and outlook. Obviously it was encouraging to see you guys soon.

John Campbell: Um, yeah, John, just from in terms of the guide, I mean, we're obviously monitoring this in real time, we see what we see in Q1, which has been, you know, really strong sign of where things are headed. Kind of like Doug's commentary around our outlook for home and consumer and what we baked in, we've taken a fairly conservative stance here, right. And so we assume, um, as the year progresses, we're not baking in a ton of upside. That said, obviously, we do feel like the recovery could become more broad-based. And I think Scott can add some color commentary to that.

John Campbell: Trent Im going to let Scott.

Scott Perry: When youre talking about the curve are you talking about everything are you just talking about insurance just within insurance for now okay.

Scott Perry: Yes, John just in terms of in terms of the guide I mean, where.

Scott Perry: We're obviously monitoring this in real time, and we see what we see in Q1, which has been really strong.

Scott Perry: Kind of where things are headed.

Speaker Change: Kind of like Doug's commentary around our outlook for home <unk> consumer and what we baked in we've taken a fairly conservative stance here right and so we assume.

Speaker Change: As the year progresses, we're not baking in a ton of upside.

Speaker Change: Obviously, we do feel like the recovery could become more broad based.

Speaker Change: And I think Scott can add some color commentary to that.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: John.

John Campbell: I'd say last trends said I think it especially with whatever.

Scott Perry: After what happened in Q1 last year, we went from a forecasting perspective, we want to be conservative until our clients.

Scott Perry: We baked some of that guaranteed budgets from our clients now.

Scott Perry: That said all of our conversations with our clients is broad based across the board is they are very happy very profitable and are going to continue expanding geos as the year goes on.

Scott Perry: No.

Scott Perry: Just anecdotally.

Scott Perry: I would expect continued sequential growth quarter after quarter after the year as the year goes on unless some major macro.

Scott Perry: Event happens.

Scott Perry: It's a very broad based.

Scott Perry: Recovery of insurance there is theres a lot of profitability across the board we're already getting I mean, there was a few carriers that were opening geos in March that as a month or two ago. We thought it would be the end of the year before they open up any new geos. So.

Scott Perry: I think there is a snowball effect that's happening the snowball is rolling down the hill.

Scott Perry: From my standpoint, Im extremely optimistic on continued growth throughout the year.

Speaker Change: Okay. That's very helpful and then.

Speaker Change: Maybe for Doug here. This is kind of a near term medium term question as well as kind of a bigger picture question. Just two part question, but on the brand spend.

Douglas Robert Lebda: You guys closed this year at $8 9 million that was closer to $30 million last three years. It makes it a little bit higher than that you are trying to that so I'm curious about what you guys have kind of outlined for this year how much of that is fully committed and then bigger picture whats youre thinking about.

Douglas Robert Lebda: As far as brand spend is that something you expect to ratchet higher over time or is this is this a new kind of normal lower level at this point.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So.

Speaker Change: Really really great question and lend.

Speaker Change: Lendingtree benefits from the fact that we started with TV spend.

Speaker Change: The year 2000.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So, so the way, really, really great question. And LendingTree benefits from the fact that we started with TV spend in the year 2000 instead of doing a at the time. And it proved that TV, we could drive consumers profitably through TV. We then got our online act together.

Speaker Change: Instead of.

Speaker Change: Doing.

Speaker Change: Got it.

Speaker Change: At the time.

Speaker Change: And it proved out that.

Speaker Change: We could drive consumers profitably through television.

Speaker Change: We then got our online act together and that brand is obviously helps our online we have zero assumption of brand spend this year in.

Speaker Change: In here and the way the advertising works is you only really get to TV spend for us when your unit economics and your demand from your advertisers is so high that its actually economically viable. So we see Tvs, Ben just like we see search spend.

Douglas Robert Lebda: And that brand obviously helps our online; we have zero assumption of brand spend on this here. And the way the advertising works is you only really get www.lendingtreeinc.com www.lendingtreeinc.com, the Client Forum at prices that make sense.

Speaker Change: We looked at to attribute.

Speaker Change: But we're actually working on that too. So we don't plan on TV. This year, if you see us on television anytime you see us on television it means that.

Speaker Change: We are investing in the most expensive channel to acquire customers because our.

Speaker Change: Client forum at prices that.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So I love it when we can be spending big on TV because that means we can't go grab any more volume from online. Okay. Thank you, Doug. Thank you. One moment for our next question. And our next question comes from Melissa Waddell of J.P. Morgan. Good morning.

Speaker Change: That makes sense for us to do that so I love. It when we can be spending big on TV because that means where we are.

Speaker Change: We can't go grab any more volume from from online.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you Doug.

Speaker Change: Thank you one moment for our next question.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Melissa with Dow of Jpmorgan.

Melissa: Good morning, Thanks for taking my question.

Operator: Thanks for taking my questions. First, I just wanted to clarify. I apologize. I think that, Scott. Did I hear you right?

Melissa: First I just wanted to clarify I apologize and I think Scott.

Melissa: Thanks.

Melissa: Did I hear you right, you're looking for double digit year over year growth in the insurance segment and <unk>.

Melissa Waddell: You're looking for double-digit year-over-year growth in the insurance segment in 1Q? Yes, and both revenue and BMD. Okay, I got it.

Scott Perry: Yes in both revenue and DMD.

Speaker Change: Okay got it thanks for clarifying that.

Speaker Change: Talk about what the implications are given.

Speaker Change: Margin.

Speaker Change #100: Kind of throughout the year and how you expect that to progress kind of across the various segments. Thanks. So much.

Douglas Robert Lebda: So I'll hit on this and then Scott, you should go into it in detail. When you look at VMM margin, that's where we, as marketing, focus on VMM dollars, not VMM percentages. So as you spend in, as clients are upping their bids, we turn around and up our bids to get customers. And, and so you do see some decrease in the market. But when we do it in insurance, we're seeing that we can come back and drive volume at margins that are still pretty good, that are almost in line with where they were last year. Scott, do you want to add anything to that?

Speaker Change #101: So I'll hit this and then Scott you should go into it in detail.

Scott Perry: When you look at <unk> margin.

Speaker Change #102: Where are we.

Speaker Change #102: Kidding.

Speaker Change #102: We focus on VM dollars not percentages.

Scott Perry: So as you spend and so as clients are upping their bids, we turnaround and up or.

Scott Perry: Bids to go get customers and until you do see some decrease in margin.

Scott Perry: But what we're doing in insurance, we're seeing that we can.

Scott Perry: Come back and drive volume at.

Scott Perry: At margins that are still pretty good better almost in line with where they were last year Scott.

Scott Peyree: Yeah, Melissa, like, you know, you started insurance. I would say, Q1, our margins are still very strong, from a historical standpoint, maybe down slightly over Q4, but very, very high. That said, I mean, as the recovery changes in revenue growth happen across the board, media will get more expansion, and margins will come down a little bit. But, as Doug said, it's about increasing total VMD dollars. And that's our focus there. And we will lean into, you know, traffic and revenue that's profitable for our clients and makes additional VMD dollars for us. I would say, you know, on the mortgage side, you're probably, until you start seeing a recovery, you're probably just staying at fairly, we're running pretty good margins right now; you're not really looking to squeeze those margins for traffic until you start seeing more of a broad-based recovery, you know, and refinance and whatnot.

Scott Perry: Add on to that.

Scott Perry: Yes.

Scott Perry: Melissa.

Scott Perry: Started in insurance.

Scott Perry: Q1, our margins are still very strong.

Scott Perry: Historical standpoint.

Scott Perry: Maybe down slightly over Q4 of it but it's a very very high that said I mean as as the recovery continues in revenue growth happens across the board. It's media will get more especially on margin will come down a little bit, but as Doug as Doug said, it's about increasing total BMD dollars in.

Scott Perry: That's our focus there and we will lean into.

Scott Perry: Traffic and revenue of this profitable for our clients.

Scott Perry: And make some additional BMD dollars for us I would say.

Scott Perry: On the mortgage side.

Scott Perry: Probably until you start seeing a recovery or probably just staying fairly.

Scott Perry: We're running at a pretty good margins right now.

Scott Perry: Youre not really looking to squeeze those margins for traffic until you start seeing more of a broad based recovery and refinanced. The one that now that said like home equity. There is a lot of growth opportunity I believe in home equity.

Scott Peyree: Now, that said, like home equity, there's a lot of growth opportunity, I believe, in home equity in the current and near term. On the consumer side, I do think, you know, honestly, that we're probably currently leaving some VMD dollars on the table by running very strong margins, which we're running very strong margins right now, but that is something we are going to actively look into to see if we can reinvest in certain areas and gain market share and increase our total VMD dollars by running a bit slimmer margin. Thank you. Thank you. Again, if you have a question, please press star 11 on your touchtone telephone. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from Jamie Friedman of Susquehanna International Group. The Ultimate Parody Site!! !

Scott Perry: In the current and near term on the consumer side I do think on.

Scott Perry: We're going to actively look into is to see if we can reinvest in certain areas and gain gain market share and increase our total BMD dollars by running a bit slimmer margins.

Speaker Change #103: Thank you.

Speaker Change #103: Thank you again, if you have a question. Please press star one on your Touchtone telephone one moment for our next question.

Speaker Change #103: Yes.

Speaker Change #103: And our next question comes from Jamie Friedman of Susquehanna International Group.

James Eric Friedman: Hi, I wanted to ask about student loan repayments. So I was just wondering how, if at all, did the resumption of student loans around October affect, say, the lending partner sentiment towards loan originations or, you know, consumer behavior. Any color on student loan repayments would be helpful. Scott, I'm going to take, uh, yeah, Jamie, that was that was a lot of discussion you know about six months ago. That was what was going on.

Speaker Change #103: Hi.

James Eric Friedman: I wanted to ask about student loan repayments. So was just wondering how if at all that the resumption of student loans.

James Eric Friedman: Around October effect say, the lending partner sentiment towards loan originations.

James Eric Friedman: Consumer behavior any color on student loan there would be helpful.

James Eric Friedman: Scott.

James Eric Friedman: Thanks.

Scott Perry: Hi, yes.

Scott Perry: Hello, Jamie.

Speaker Change #104: That was a lot of discussion.

Speaker Change #104: About six months ago as well.

Q4 2023 LendingTree Inc Earnings Call

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