Q1 2024 AbCellera Biologics Inc Earnings Call & Business Update
Harry: Good afternoon, and welcome to Abcellera's Q1 2024 business update conference call. My name is Harry, and I will facilitate the audio portion of today's interactive broadcast. If you would like operator support or have any issues hearing anything today, please dial star zero on your telephone key. At this time, I would like to turn the call over to Tryn Stimart, Abcellera's Chief Legal and Compliance Officer. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, and welcome to <unk> Q1, 2020 full business update conference call. My name is Harry and I will facilitate the audio portion of today's interactive broadcast.
Speaker Change: If you would like operator to support or having any issues in hearing anything today. Please all star zero on your telephone keypad.
Tryn T. Stimart: At this time I would like to turn the call over to train Stein Mart at Soliris, Chief legal and compliance Officer. Please go ahead.
Tryn T. Stimart: Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to everyone listening around the world. Thank you for joining us for Abcellera's 2024 first quarter earnings call. I'm Tryn Stimart, Abcellera's Chief Legal and Compliance Officer. Joining me on today's call are Dr. Carl Hansen, Abcellera's president and CEO, and Andrew Booth, Abcellera's chief financial officer. During this call, we anticipate making projections and forward-looking statements based on our current expectations and pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.
Tryn T. Stimart: Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to everyone listening around the world. Thank you for joining us for <unk> two.
Tryn T. Stimart: Our actual results could differ materially due to several factors, as set forth in our latest Form 10-K and subsequent Forms 10-Q and 8-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We do not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. Our presentation today, including our earnings press release issued earlier today, and our SEC filings are available on our investor relations website. The information we provide about our pipeline is for the benefit of the investment community and is not intended to be promotional.
Tryn T. Stimart: 2024 first quarter earnings call entrants dialogue sellers, chief legal and compliance officer.
Tryn T. Stimart: Joining me on today's call are Dr. Carl Hansen, accelerates, President and CEO and Andrew accelerated Chief Financial Officer. During this call, we anticipate making projections and forward looking statements based on our current expectations and pursuant to the safe Harbor provision of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.
Tryn T. Stimart: Our actual results could differ materially due to several factors as set forth in our latest Form 10-K, and subsequent forms 10-Q, and 8-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Tryn T. Stimart: To accelerate does not undertake any obligation to update any forward looking statements, whether as a result of new information future events or otherwise.
Tryn T. Stimart: Our presentation today, including our earnings press release issued earlier today.
Tryn T. Stimart: And our SEC filings are available on our Investor Relations website.
Tryn T. Stimart: The information we provide about our pipeline is for the benefit of the investment community and is not intended to be promotional.
Tryn T. Stimart: As we transition to our prepared remarks, please note that all dollars referred to during the call are in U.S. dollars. After our prepared remarks, we will open the lines for questions and answers. Now, I'll turn the call over to Carl.
Tryn T. Stimart: Let me transition to our prepared remarks. Please note that all dollars referred to during the call are in U S dollars.
Carl: After our prepared remarks, we will open the lines for questions and answers.
Tryn T. Stimart: Now I'll turn the call over to Carl.
Tryn T. Stimart: Yeah.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Thanks, Tryn. And thank you, everyone, for joining us. As Abcellera continues to evolve into a clinical biotech company, we are directing our resources towards three main priorities. Our first priority is advancing our internal pipeline, including ABCL 635 and ABCL 575. Both programs are in Manufacturing and I&D Enabling Studies and are on track for I&D submissions in 2025. Our second priority is completing platform investments that are focused on forward integration, including establishing our clinical manufacturing capability. We are on track to start our first engineering runs at our facility next year.
Carl: Thanks, Tim and thank you everyone for joining us today.
Carl L.G. Hansen: As of solar continues to evolve into a clinical biotech company, we are directing our resources towards three main priorities.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And finally, our third priority is executing partnerships that we view as strategic to our long-term vision of becoming a scalable drug development company. This quarter, we presented new data on our TCE platform, which we view as both an important source of internal programs and as a basis for strategic partnerships. Over the past two years, we have built a platform to create TCEs, a class which we believe has the potential to be one of the most important therapies for cancer and liquid tumors.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Our first priority is advancing our internal pipeline, including <unk> 65, and <unk> 575.
Carl L.G. Hansen: What programs are in manufacturing and IND, enabling studies and are on track for IND submissions in 2025.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Our second priority is completing platform investments that are focused on forward integration, including establishing our clinical manufacturing capabilities.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We are on track to start our first engineering runs at our facility next year.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And finally, our third priority is executing partnerships that we view as strategic to our long term vision of becoming a scalable drug development company.
Carl L.G. Hansen: This quarter, we presented new data on our TCE platform, which we view as both an important source of internal programs and as a basis for strategic partnerships.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Over the past two years, we have built a platform to create Tce's class, which we believe has potential to be one of the most important therapies for cancer for cancer and liquid tumors.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Last month, we presented four posters at the annual meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research to update our progress on this effort. A highlight of this work is that we have shown we can reproducibly generate TCEs that show high tumor cell killing and remarkably low cytokine release. This graph shows results comparing Abcellera-generated TCEs against clinical benchmarks for three different tumor targets: Kaur, PSMA, 5P4 and B7H4. The top row of the graph shows that our TCEs achieve equivalent tumor cell killing with potency that is comparable or superior to the three clinical benchmarks.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Last month, we presented four posters at the annual meeting of the American Association for cancer Research to update our progress on this effort.
Carl L.G. Hansen: A highlight of this work is that we have shown we can reproduce <unk> generate tce's that show high tumor cell, killing and remarkably low cytokine release.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The middle row shows interfering gamma secretion that in each case is below the level of the benchmarks, and the bottom row shows the secretion of TNF-alpha, a cytokine that is perhaps the most important mediator of excessive inflammatory responses. Abcellera's TCEs show remarkably low TNF-alpha secretion compared to the clinical benchmarks. And in the case of PSMA, TNF-alpha is close to zero across the entire range of antibody concentrations tested.
Carl L.G. Hansen: This graph shows results comparing accelerate generated tce's against clinical benchmarks for three different tumor targets P. SMA 54, and <unk> four.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The top rope the graph shows that our TCE is achieve equivalent tumor cell, killing with potency that is comparable or superior to the three clinical benchmarks.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The middle row shows interfering gamma accretion that in each case is below the level of the benchmarks and the bottom row shows this accretion of TNF Alpha a cytokine that is perhaps the most important mediator of excessive inflammatory responses.
Carl L.G. Hansen: At solar as TCE show remarkably low TNF alphas accretion compared to the clinical benchmarks and in the case of <unk> TNF Alpha is close to zero across the entire range of antibody concentrations tested.
Carl L.G. Hansen: When we started this work, it was our hypothesis that we would need a large number of anti-CD3s and that it would be a combinatorial problem to find the right pair of CD3 and tumor-binding arms to achieve these results. Instead, what we have found is that within our panel of hundreds of CD3s, there are three small families of related CD3 binders that can be used to achieve the rare property of potent tumor cell killing with low cytokine release, and this can be done repeatedly across different tumor targets.
Carl L.G. Hansen: When we started this work was our hypothesis that we would need a large number of anti <unk> and that it would be a combinatorial problem to find the right pair of <unk> three and tumor binding arms to achieve these results.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Instead, what we have found is that within our panel of hundreds of <unk>. There are three small families of related CDP binders that can be used to achieve the rare property a potent tumor cell, killing with low cytokine release and this can be done repeatedly across different tumor targets.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Starting with a large number of CD3 binding antibodies allowed us to identify these rare subsets that we are now prioritizing in TCE development. The focus of our work is now to test if these properties translate to in vivo models and to advance a subset of programs forward in development. From a technology development perspective, our TC platform is now nearly complete. In addition to having highly differentiated and proprietary CD3s, we have also developed panels of antibodies that can be used to enhance T cell activation and survival via SIGNL2 co-stimulation and have demonstrated the ability to target MHC peptide antigens.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Starting with a large number of CD three binding antibody. It's allowed us to identify these rare subset that we are now prioritizing in TCE development.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The focus of our work is now to test if these properties translate to in vivo models and to advance the subset of programs forward in development.
Carl L.G. Hansen: From a technology development perspective, our TC platform is now nearly complete.
Carl L.G. Hansen: In addition to having highly differentiated and proprietary <unk>. We've also developed panels of antibodies that can be used to enhance T cell activation and survival signal <unk> co stimulation and have demonstrated the ability to target MHC peptide antigens.
Carl L.G. Hansen: These results were also shared at AACR. Moving to Strategic Partnerships. This quarter, we announced a collaboration with Biogen for a novel target that enables the delivery of biotherapeutics across the blood-brain barrier. And last week, we announced a collaboration with Viking and Aromark focused on the creation of asset-based companies, similar to what we previously did with Burst Adventures in the formation of Vabdera. And with that, I will hand it over to Andrew to discuss our finances. Thanks, Carl.
Carl L.G. Hansen: These results were also shared at ACR.
Andrew: Moving to strategic partnerships.
Andrew: This quarter, we announced the collaboration with Biogen for a novel target that enables the delivery of biotherapeutics across the blood brain barrier.
Andrew: And last week, we announced a collaboration with Viking and Aramark focused on the creation of asset based companies similar to what we previously did with Versant ventures and the formation that Dara.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And with that I will hand, it over to Andrew to discuss our financials.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Sure.
Andrew: Thanks Carl.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Yes.
Andrew Booth: Abcellera continues to be in a strong liquidity position with approximately 725 million dollars in cash and equivalents and with approximately 240 million dollars in available government funding to execute on their strategy. In the first quarter of 2024, we continued to execute on our plans to complete our CMC and GMP investments and to advance both partner-initiated and internal programs. Looking at our key business metrics, in the first quarter, we started work on three partner-initiated programs, which takes us to a cumulative total of 90 partner-initiated programs with downstream participation.
Andrew: <unk> continues to be in a strong liquidity position with approximately $725 million in cash and equivalents and with approximately $240 million in available government funding to execute on our strategy.
Andrew Booth: In the first quarter of 2024, we continued to execute our plans to complete our CMC and GMP investments and to invest advanced both partner initiated an internal programs.
Andrew Booth: Looking at our key business metrics in the first quarter. We started work on three partner initiated programs, which takes us to accumulative total of 90.
Andrew Booth: Partner initiated programs with downstream participation.
Andrew Booth: In Q1 2024, no additional molecules advanced into the clinic, and we maintained a cumulative total of 13 molecules that have reached the clinic. We'd also like to congratulate Arsenal Bio, who in April announced the first patient dosed in a Phase 1-2 trial for AB2100, which is in development as a treatment for clear cell renal cell carcinoma.
Andrew Booth: In Q1 2020 for no additional molecules advanced into the clinic and we maintained a cumulative total of 13 molecules to have reached the clinic we'd.
Andrew Booth: We'd also like to congratulate Arsenal bio who in April announced the first patient dosed in a phase one two trial for <unk> 'twenty 100, which is in development as a treatment for clear cell renal cell carcinoma.
Andrew Booth: We view our growing list of progressing molecules in the clinic as specific examples of our near and mid-term potential revenue from downstream milestone fees and royalty payments in the longer term. Turning to revenue and expenses, revenue in the quarter was $10 million, almost entirely driven by research fees relating to work on partner-initiated programs. This compares to research fee revenue of approximately $11 million in Q1 2023. In light of our focus on select high-quality programs with increased long-term participation, particularly through co-development, this was a good quarter for program researchers.
Andrew Booth: We view, our growing list of progressing molecules in the clinic as specific examples of our near and midterm potential revenue from downstream milestone fees and royalty payments and the longer term.
Andrew Booth: Turning to revenue and expenses revenue in the quarter was $10 million almost entirely driven by research fees relating to work on partner initiated programs. This compares to research fee revenue of approximately $11 million in Q1 2023 and.
Andrew Booth: In light of our focus on select high quality programs with increased long term participation, particularly through co development. This was a good quarter for program research fees.
Andrew Booth: Our research and development expenses for the quarter were approximately $39 million, roughly $13 million less than the same period of the previous year. This expense is driven by ongoing program execution, continuing platform development, and our increasing investment in our internal program pipeline. The decrease compared to Q1 last year reflects the absence of approximately $20 million in one-time expenses related to co-development and internal programs that were incurred in Q1 of 2023. In sales and marketing, expenses for Q1 were about $3 million, a small reduction relative to last year.
Andrew Booth: Our research and development expenses for the quarter were approximately $39 million roughly $13 million less than the same period of the previous year. This expense is driven by ongoing program execution, continuing platform development and our increasing investment in our internal program pipeline the.
Andrew Booth: The decrease compared to Q1 last year reflects the absence of approximately $20 million in one time expenses related to co development and internal programs that were incurred in Q1 of 2023.
Andrew Booth: In sales and marketing expenses for Q1 were about $3 million, a small reduction relative to last year and G&A expenses were just over $17 million compared to roughly $15 million in Q1 of 2023.
Andrew Booth: And in G&A, expenses were just over $17 million, compared to roughly $15 million in Q1 of 2023. Looking at earnings, we are reporting a net loss of roughly $41 million for the quarter compared to a loss of $40 million in the same quarter of last year. The loss reflects the continued investments in our business, particularly CMC and GMP manufacturing capabilities, platform, and internal programs. In terms of earnings per share, this quarter's result works out to a loss of 14 cents per share on a basic and diluted basis.
Andrew Booth: Looking at earnings we are reporting a net loss of roughly $41 million for the quarter compared to a loss of $40 million in the same quarter of last year. The loss reflects the continued investments in our business, particularly CMC and GMP manufacturing capabilities platform and internal programs.
Andrew Booth: In terms of earnings per share. This quarter result works out to a loss of <unk> 14 per share on a basic and diluted basis.
Andrew Booth: Looking at cash flows, operating activities for Q1 used roughly $42 million, of which over $10 million were related to seasonal or transient working capital increases. As we have stated in the past, we expect our operating cash flow to be irregular and often negative as we continue to invest in our strategic partnerships, our capabilities, and our internal pipeline. As part of our Treasury strategy, we have over $570 million invested in short-term marketable securities. Our investment activities for the quarter included an approximately $57 million net decrease in these holdings.
Andrew Booth: Looking at cash flows operating activities for Q1 used roughly $42 million of which over $10 million were related to seasonal or transient working capital increases as we have stated in the past, we expect our operating cash flow to be irregular and often negative as we continue to invest in our strategic partnerships our capabilities.
Andrew Booth: Our internal pipeline.
Andrew Booth: As part of our Treasury strategy, we have over $570 million invested in short term medical marketable securities our investment activities for the quarter included approximately $57 million net decrease in these holdings all other investment activities amounted to approximately $27 million, including two including approximately 24 million.
Operator: All other investment activities amounted to approximately $27 million, including approximately $24 million invested in property and equipment. Investments in property and equipment are, of course, driven in large part by our ongoing work to establish CMC and GMP manufacturing capabilities. We expect these investments to continue at approximately the Q1 rate through 2024 and be substantially complete in early 2025. All together, we finish the quarter with approximately $725 million of total cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities.
Operator: <unk> invested.
Operator: <unk> invested in property and equipment.
Operator: Investments in property and equipment are of course, driven in large part by our ongoing work to establish CMC and GMP manufacturing capabilities. We expect these investments to continue at approximately the Q1 rate through 2024 and be substantially complete in early 2025.
Operator: Altogether, we finished the quarter with approximately $725 million of total cash cash equivalents and marketable securities.
Operator: And as a reminder, our continuing GMP facility build-out is separately co-funded by the Government of Canada's Strategic Innovation Fund. In addition, in 2023, we secured $220 million from the governments of Canada and British Columbia. This available capital does not show up on our balance sheet. However, with over $725 million in cash and equivalents and the unused portion of our secured government funding, we continue to have just under $1 billion in total available liquidity to execute on our strategy.
Operator: And as a reminder, our continuing GMP facility build out is separately co funded by the government of Canada's strategic Innovation Fund. In addition in 2023, we secured $220 million from the governments of Canada and British Columbia. This available capital does not show up on our balance sheet.
Operator: With over $725 million in cash and equivalents and the unused portion of our secured government funding. We continue to have just under $1 billion in total available liquidity to execute on our strategy.
Operator: With respect to our overall operating expenditures, our capital needs are very manageable. We continue to believe that we have sufficient liquidity to fund well beyond the next three years of pipeline and platform investment. And with that, we'd be happy to take your questions. Operator.
Operator: With respect to our overall operating expenditures are our capital needs are very manageable. We continue to believe that we have sufficient liquidity to fund well beyond the next three years of pipeline and platform investments and with that we'd be happy to take your questions operator.
Operator: Thank you. We will now begin the Q&A. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. Now, if you change your mind, please press star followed by two to exit the queue. And finally, when preparing to ask your question, please ensure that your phone is unmuted. And for our first question today, we'll go to the line of Andrea Tan of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker Change: Thank you we will now begin Q&A, if you'd like to ask a question. Please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad now if you change your mind. Please press star followed by two to exit the queue.
Operator: And finally, when preparing to ask a question. Please ensure that youll find is unmatched it locally.
Andrea R. Tan: And for our first question today, we'll go to the line of 100, a tonne of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Andrea R. Tan: Good afternoon. Thanks for taking our question. Carl, maybe on the back of your data presentations at AACR, how are you thinking about what additional data needs to be generated to spur strategic interest in a transaction? And then, just curious, when you've spoken in the past about doing a deal that captures the value of the platform, could you just remind us again what that would entail? Or how would you assess the merits of such a deal?
Andrea R. Tan: Good afternoon, thanks for taking our question.
Andrea R. Tan: Maybe on the back of your data presentation for ACR. How are you thinking about what additional data need to be generated to spur strategic interest in a transaction and then just curious when you've spoken in the past about doing a deal that captures the value of the platform can you just remind us again, what that would entail or how would you assess the merits of such a deal. Thanks. So.
Andrea R. Tan: Much.
Operator: Thanks so much.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Andrea I'm happy to take that.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Thanks, Andrea. I'm happy to take that.
Carl: So first let me say that we've been working on the platform and in the area of Tcs now for roughly two and a half years over that time.
Carl L.G. Hansen: You know, so first, let me say that we've been working on the platform and in the area of TCEs for roughly two and a half years now. You know, over that time, we have made terrific progress on building the platform, which provides the building blocks to create TCEs that we believe can have highly differentiated capabilities, as demonstrated in vitro. That's really the punchline from the data that we showed at AACR.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We have made terrific progress on building the platform, which provides the building blocks to create Tcs that we believe can have highly differentiated capabilities as demonstrated in vitro.
Carl L.G. Hansen: That's really the punch line.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The data that we showed at ACR.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The focus now, of course, is on being able to take that data and show that it translates into in vivo models and then ultimately to the clinic and ultimately that it makes a difference for patients. In terms of dealmaking, we remain optimistic that we'll be able to make a deal for access to the platform. When I look across other platforms in the industry, I do believe that we have something that is differentiated and can solve problems that others cannot.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Our focus now of course is on being able to take that data and showed that it translates into in vivo models and then ultimately to the clinic and ultimately that it makes a difference for patients.
Carl L.G. Hansen: In terms of dealmaking.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We remain optimistic that we'll be able to make a deal for access to the platform.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Hi.
Carl L.G. Hansen: When I look across other platforms in the industry I do believe that we have something that is differentiated and can solve problems that others cannot.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And we continue to engage in conversations, and I'd say that the response broadly is an appreciation of the science and the toolkit that's there. So that is something we're actively working on, and I wouldn't speculate on what the timing of that would be. In the meantime, we're also moving these forward on the translational side, as I said, towards in vivo models and towards the clinic, and we see that as being a major value driver.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We continue to engage in conversations and I'd say that the response broadly is an appreciation of the science and the toolkit. That's there so that that is something we're actively working on it and I wouldn't.
Carl L.G. Hansen: I wouldn't speculate on what the timing of that would be.
Carl L.G. Hansen: In the meantime.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We are also moving these forward on the translational side as I said towards in vivo models and towards the clinic and we see that as being a major value drivers. So one of the overarching.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So one of the, you know, overarching realities of the field is that people are very excited about this class. People that are working in the class are starting to see that there's data coming in on solid tumors that's encouraging, and broadly speaking, I think there's a consensus that this will be a very important class of immunotherapies. At the same time, no one knows exactly how to crack solid tumors, and so there's going to need to be work done in models and done in the clinic. We're going to do some of that here at Abcellera, but we're also going to need to engage with partners to make sure that platform is used broadly, and that is currently the focus.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The realities of the field is that people are very excited about this class people.
Carl L.G. Hansen: People that are working in this class are starting to see that there's data coming in on solid tumors, that's encouraging and broadly speaking.
Carl L.G. Hansen: I think there is a consensus that this will be a very important class of immunotherapies.
Carl L.G. Hansen: At the same time, no one knows exactly how to crack solid tumors and so there is going to need to be work done in models and done in the clinic, we're going to do some of that here at <unk>, but we're also going to need to engage with partners.
Carl L.G. Hansen: To make sure that platform is used broadly and that currently is the focus.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Got it. Is there a scenario where you would consider advancing one of these, you know, maybe independently, and this would become a third internally developed program? Yes, absolutely.
Speaker Change: Got it is there a scenario where you would consider advancing one of these maybe independently and this would become a third internally developed program.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Yes, absolutely. So, as I said in my prepared remarks, we see the platform as highly differentiated, and we see it as an important basis or foundation on which to make strategic partnerships in the area of TCEs, both in oncology and also in autoimmunity, but we also see it as an important source of internal programs. And one of the things that is probably most exciting about TCEs is that once you have the platform in place, once you really start to understand the science behind it, and you crack that open, there are numerous opportunities that can then be pursued with, I wouldn't say a little lift but with a higher probability of success because we expect there will be some transfer from one program to the other. So we're quite excited about that, and we definitely do see this as one of the sources of internal programs that we would be willing to take forward into the clinic ourselves.
Speaker Change: Yes, absolutely so.
Carl L.G. Hansen: As I said in my prepared remarks, we see the platform is highly differentiated and we see it as an important an important basis, where foundation on which to make strategic partnerships in the area of Tcs both in oncology and also in autumn unity, but we also see it as an important source of internal programs and one of the things that is probably.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Most exciting about <unk> is that once you have the platform in place once you really start to understand the science behind it.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And you crack that open there are numerous opportunities that can then be prosecuted.
Carl L.G. Hansen: With I wouldn't say little lift, but with with higher probability of success, because we expect there will be some transfer from one program to the other so we're quite excited about that and we definitely do see this as one of the sources of internal programs that we would be willing to take forward into the clinic ourselves.
Speaker Change: Thanks, so much.
Operator: Our next question today is from the line of Stricki Bidhavarikonda of Truist. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker Change: Our next question today is from the line of strictly Pitsenbarger conduct of truth. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my question. I have a follow-up question on the TCE platform. You know, beyond discovery, where do you think you add greater value to the broader TCE space in general? And do you think that that is currently being recognized by strategics? more broadly. And I know this, you know. I'll ask a question about Apollo similar to one of the prior questions in a different way.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my question.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: A follow up question on the TCE.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: That farm.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: No.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: When do you think beyond discovery, what do you think you add greater value to the broader PC faith in general and do you think that that is currently being recognized by.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: Strategics.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: More broadly and I know this.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: I'll ask a question about <unk>.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: A follow up to one of the prior questions in a different way and the size that you presented you have shown multiple different TCE is targeting piece of me before the 704.
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: In the slides that you presented, you showed multiple different TCs targeting, you know, PSMA, 5T4, B7H4. And you mentioned that all of them are differentiated from clinical benchmarks. How would you decide, if you were to develop one internally, which one to develop?
Stricki Bidhavarikonda: And you mentioned that all of them are differentiated from clinical benchmark. How long you decide if you were to develop one internally which ones to develop.
Carl L.G. Hansen: You know, is it how unique it is person class? Or is it, you know, you improving on the competitive landscape? Thank you. That's a great question.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Is it how unique it is first in class or is it no you improving on the competitive landscape. Thank you.
Carl L.G. Hansen: That's a great question. So first, as you asked, what do we bring outside of discovery? And you know, the short answer is that at this point, we have put in place a platform which is a toolkit for making TCEs, and what we have shown is that we can bring those forward to create molecules. I would characterize that as discovery. So at this point, we haven't shown value outside of discovery that happens when you move into translational models and then move into the clinic. And that will take time. And that is something that we're pushing forward. Now, what we think is different about the platform is that.
Speaker Change: That's a great question so first.
Carl L.G. Hansen: I think you asked what do we bring outside of discovery and the short answer is that at this point, we have put in place a platform, which is a toolkit for making Dcs and what we have shown is that we can bring those forward to create molecules I would characterize that as discovery. So at this point, we haven't shown value outside of discovery that happens when you move into translational models.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Move into the clinic and that will take time and that is something that we're we're pushing forward now.
Carl L.G. Hansen: What we think is different in the platform is that.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The broad diversity of CD3s has allowed us to better understand how to engage CD3 on T-cells and how that interplay between how you engage CD3 and how you engage a tumor antigen can control the response of T-cells. In the examples that are shown in the graph, the objective was to get high potency of killing with minimal cytokine release to address one of the problems with TCEs, which has been dose-limiting toxicity associated with CRS.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The broad diversity of <unk> has allowed us to better understand how to engage CD three on T cells, and how that interplay between how you engage CD three and how you engage a tumor antigen can control the responsive T cells.
Carl L.G. Hansen: In the examples that are shown on the graph. The objective was to get high potency of killing with a minimal cytokine release to address one of the problems in <unk>, which has been dose limiting toxicity associated with Crs.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So, some of those examples, and PSMA, which I highlighted specifically, you could not imagine a more compelling example of being able to completely decouple potent cell killing from cytokine release. That's an astonishing result, and it's one that we're excited about, but we have not yet shown, as I said, that it will translate into animal models and then into the clinic. And that's the next step. So, that's part of it.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So some of those examples and PSA may I highlighted specifically.
Carl L.G. Hansen: You could not have.
Carl L.G. Hansen: You could not have imagined a more a compelling example of being able to completely decouple potent cell, killing from cytokine release, that's an astonishing result, and it's one that we're excited about but we have not yet shown as I said that it will translate.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Into animal models, and then the clinic and Thats the next step.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So that's part of it the other part of course and discoveries that <unk> has for 10 years been making a living working with some of the best in the world solving some very difficult discovery problems and when you think about not just <unk>, but the other side of engaging the tumor.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The other part, of course, in discovery is that Abcellera has, you know, for 10 years been making a living working with some of the best in the world, solving some very difficult discovery problems. And when you think about not just CD3, but the other side of engaging the tumor, there are multiple targets where even finding a good binder, or certainly a diversity of binders, can be difficult. And so that, coupled with the bi-specific engineering, provides a complete solution to this problem that we intend to show will be a validated solution in the clinic. Of course, that's going to take some time.
Carl L.G. Hansen: There are multiple targets, we're even finding a good binder or certainly a diversity of buyers can be difficult and so that coupled with the Bispecific engineering and provides a complete solution to this problem.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We intend to show.
Carl L.G. Hansen: He will be a validated solution in the clinic of course, that's going to take some time now your other question was.
Operator: Now, your other question was, you know, of the programs that you've shown, how are you going to decide which ones to bring forward? I mean, the short answer is that it's a combination of commercial considerations, meaning competition, as well as primarily science. So we have, to date, started five different programs in oncology. We've also started a program in autoimmunity. You know, at this point, there are two programs in oncology that we're not going to be bringing forward.
Operator: Of the programs that you've shown how are you going to decide which ones to bring forward.
Operator: I mean, the short answer is that it's a combination of.
Operator: Commercial.
Operator: Commercial considerations, many competition as well as primarily the science.
Operator: So we have to date started five different programs in oncology. We have also started a program in autoimmunity.
Operator: At this point there is two of the programs in oncology that we're not going to be bringing forward. The other ones. We are bringing forward into animal studies and then we're going to need to make a decision based on the results. We have based on the data based on what's happening out in the field.
Operator: The other ones we are bringing forward into animal studies, and then we're going to need to make a decision based on the results we have, based on the data, based on what's happening out in the field, and based on what we think the biggest opportunity is. And then, of course, weighing that up against some of the other programs that we have coming from other platforms, such as GPCR and I and channel platforms.
Operator: Basically we think the biggest opportunity is.
Operator: And then of course Wayne that up against some of the other programs that we have coming from other platforms, such as <unk> channel platform.
Speaker Change: Alright, thank you so much.
Jacqueline Keiser: Our next question today is from the line of Jacqueline Keiser of TD Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question today is from the line of Jacqueline piece of TD Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Andrew Booth: Hi, this is Jacqueline Tisa on behalf of Stephen Mah. Thanks so much for taking the questions. Just to start on the Viking Aramark NUCO structure, do you maintain any equity ownership? And could you describe what happens if the NUCO gets acquired?
Jacqueline Keiser: Hi, This is jacqueline on for Steven MA. Thank so much for taking the questions.
Andrew Booth: Just to start on the Viking Aramark, new construction or do you maintain any equity ownership and could you describe what happens at the Newco gets acquired.
Andrew Booth: Yeah, this is Andrew. Happy to take that, Jacqueline.
Andrew Booth: Yes.
Speaker Change: Andrew happy to take that to Jacqueline so.
Andrew Booth: So the partnership we have with Aramark is at first a discovery partnership where we will work with them in order to find antibodies against targets that they elect. They would then go into an NUCO where we would have founding equity in those companies. And then we would, Aramark, and Viking would fundraise independently around those in order to advance them further towards the clinic. We would then be a regular equity holder, and it's in a very similar fashion that we have done the deal with Abdera. I also would note that Viking was one of the equity participants in the transaction, the series being announced by Abdera. So it's a very similar structure to that deal.
Andrew Booth: The partnership we have with Aramark is at first discovery partnership.
Andrew Booth: Where we will work with them in order to find the antibodies against targets that they elect they would then go into newco, where we would have founding equity in those companies and then we would.
Andrew Booth: Aramark in Viking Wood fundraise independently around those in order to advance them further towards the clinic.
Andrew Booth: Ah.
Andrew Booth: We would then be a regular equity holder and it's in a very similar fashion that we have done the deal with <unk>.
Andrew Booth: <unk> would note that Viking was one of the equity participants in the transaction the series B announced value of Dara. So it's a very similar structure to that deal.
Andrew Booth: Great, thank you. And then, just with regard to your GMP biologic manufacturing facility, are there any changes to the timing of that development? And has that downstream capability that's been created impacted your partnership discussions?
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you and then just with regards to your GMP Biologics manufacturing facility are there any changes to the timing of that development and has that downstream capability.
Andrew Booth: That's been created impacted your partnership discussions.
Andrew Booth: Yeah, I think there have been no recent changes to the timing there. Just as we said in the full year earnings call a few months ago, we're expecting our first engineering batches in 2025, and Carl reiterated that today in prepared remarks. With regard to the interest from partners, I think certainly in our co-development programs, the transaction and partnership you just mentioned, there is, of course, interest in those capabilities, and those capabilities would be on time, online, around the right time for when those molecules might be advancing through to I&D enabling studies. So I think that those really marry up very well with each other.
Andrew Booth: Yes, I think there have been no recent changes to the timing there just as we said the full year earnings call a few months ago.
Andrew Booth: We're expecting our first engineering batches in 2025, and Carl reiterated that today in the prepared remarks.
Andrew Booth: With regards to the interest from partners I think certainly in our co development programs of the transaction and partnership you. Just meant mentioned there are of course interest in those capabilities and those capabilities would be on time.
Andrew Booth: Online in around the right time for when those molecules might be advancing through IND, enabling studies. So I think that those really marry up very well with each other.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And then, if I could just sneak one more in, just on your Biogen partnership, are you getting any more traction with the camelid antibodies? And how does that interest compare to the other offerings that you have?
Speaker Change: Excellent and then if I could just sneak one more in just on your Biogen partnership are you getting any more traction with the candidate antibodies and how does that entrance compare to the other offerings that you have.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Carl here, so I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to in the Camelode Antiboyce for the Biogen deal. So the Biogen deal is exciting for two reasons. One, we have an opportunity to work with a new partner that's, you know, one of the heavyweights in the space. So we're excited about that as the start of a relationship that we hope will be able to grow over time. And secondly, the program is focused on, you know, being able to solve one of the really huge problems in biology.
Carl: Carl here so.
Speaker Change: Im not sure.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Exactly what you're referring to in the camera to antibodies for the Biogen deal. So the Biogen deal.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Is exciting for two reasons, one we have an opportunity to work with a new partner that's one of the heavyweights in the space.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So we're excited about that as the startup of relationship that we hope will be able to grow overtime and <unk>.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Secondly.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The program is focused on being able to solve what is one of the really huge problems in biologics, which is being able to eat.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Logics, which is being able to efficiently transport antibodies and other types of biologics across the blood-brain barrier. So we're going at that, you know, based on a lot of groundwork by Biogen, and we think it's an exciting program. It's at the very early stages, but if successful, we think that it could make a big difference, not just for Biogen, but for the field.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Efficiently transport antibodies and other types of biologics across the book blood brain barrier.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We're going to add that.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Based on a lot of groundwork by Biogen and we think it's an exciting program. It's at the very early stages, but if successful we think that that could make a big difference not just for biogen, but for the field.
Operator: Great. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you I appreciate it.
Scott Schoenhaus: Our next question today is from the line of Scott Schoenhaus of Keycult. Please go ahead; your line is open.
Operator: Our next question today is from the line of Scott showing house of Pico.
Scott Schoenhaus: Please go ahead your line is open.
Scott Schoenhaus: Okay.
Scott Schoenhaus: Hi, team. Most of my questions have been asked. I just wanted to touch on the three additional partner-initiated programs. Can you give us more color on the partners themselves, what kind of therapies you're engaging with in these new programs? Just broad color, if you could provide it. That's my first question.
Scott Schoenhaus: Hi team most of my questions have been asked but I just wanted to touch on the three additional partner initiated programs.
Scott Schoenhaus: Give us more color on.
Scott Schoenhaus: The partners themselves kind of therapies.
Scott Schoenhaus: You're engaging with on these new programs just broad color. If you could provide it that's my first question. Thanks.
Andrew Booth: Hey Scott, we don't normally disclose details about the programs at Partner Initiation, but what we do on an annual basis, and you can find it in our full year results, shows kind of a broadly across the number of programs we started, how they're distributed through different therapeutic areas, and what we started in the first quarter really tracks really closely to what we have seen in the past.
Speaker Change: Hey, Scott I think the three we don't normally disclose the details about the programs as our partner initiation, but what we do is on an annual basis and you can find it in our in our full year results.
Andrew Booth: Show kind of broadly across the number of programs. We started how they are distributed through different therapeutic areas.
Andrew Booth: And what we started in the first quarter is really true.
Andrew Booth: <unk> very closely to what we have seen in the past.
Scott Schoenhaus: Okay great.
Scott Schoenhaus: I know, it's hard to give specifics on that I guess my follow up question would be on the internal molecule. The ABC. All 635 do you still plan to take that through phase two on its own.
Operator: Okay, great. I know it's hard to give specifics on that. I guess my follow-up question would be about the internal molecule, ABCL-635.
Scott Schoenhaus: Do you still plan to take that through Phase II on its own? And that's it. That's it for me. Thanks.
Speaker Change: That's it for me thanks.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Thanks, Scott. Carl here. I'll take that one.
Carl: Thanks, Scott Carl here I'll take that one so 605.
Carl: Just remind everyone is an internal program against the GPC, our ion channel target.
Carl: For an indication in metabolic and endocrine disorders.
Operator: So, 635, just to remind everyone, is an internal program against the GPCRI and channel target for an indication in metabolic and endocrine disorders. It's one that we believe has the potential to be a first-in-class therapy and a program for which we're very excited. For strategic reasons, we have not disclosed... any more than I just recounted here. In terms of our plans for clinical development, at this point, we're focused on getting this one to the starting line in clinical development.
Carl: It's one that we believe has the potential to be a first in class therapy.
Operator: And our program for which we're very excited for strategic reasons, we have not disclosed.
Operator: Any more than I, just rig count recounted here.
Operator: In terms of our plans for clinical development.
Operator: At this point, we're focused on getting this one to the start line and clinical development.
Operator: We do believe that the nature of this program means that we'll get a lot of information in terms of proof of concept and safety from the early trials. And if those look good, then I think there's a real path for us to take this molecule further. But we're not committing to that until we see the data and we see where we are as a company at that point.
Operator: Do believe that the nature of this program means that we will get a lot of information in terms of proof of concept and safety from from the early trials and if those.
Operator: If those look good then I think theres, a real path for us taking this molecule further, but we're not committing to that until we see the data and we see where we are as a company at that point.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Our next question today is from the line of Stephen Wiley of Stiefel. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question today is from the line of Stephen Willey of Stifel. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Yeah, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Maybe just to follow up on the TCE line of questioning. So I know you spoke about having optimism regarding being able to make a deal that provides access to the platform, but it also sounds like such a deal would probably require you to carve out some targets for internal development. So is the translational work that you're hoping to complete, the in vivo work, is that rate limiting at all to your ability to get a broader platform deal?
Stephen Douglas Willey: Yes, good afternoon, thanks for taking the questions.
Speaker Change: Maybe just to follow up on <unk>.
Stephen Douglas Willey: <unk> line of questioning so I know you spoke about having optimism regarding being able to make.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Deal.
Stephen Douglas Willey: That provides access to the platform, but it also sounds like.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Such deal would probably require you to carve out some targets for internal development. So.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Is the translational work that you are hoping to complete the in vivo work is that right limiting at all to your ability to get it.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Broader pottsville broader platform deal done.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Okay.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So Steve, Carl here. So I don't think that our work on the programs we've initiated is a bottleneck to doing a platform deal of significance with a partner, and we're engaged in discussions all the time on that front. You're asking a reasonable question in that we have started some work internally, and it could well be that there's a partner that's interested in programs that are already in flight at Abcellera. That, for me, is not a problem.
Speaker Change: So Steve <unk>.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Carl here, so I don't think that our work on the programs. We've initiated is a bottleneck to doing a platform deal of significance with a partner and we're engaged in discussions all the time on that front.
Carl L.G. Hansen: You are asking you're asking a reasonable question in that we have started some work internally and it could well be that there is a partner thats interested in programs that are already in flight and et cetera.
Carl: That for me is it's not a problem we disclosed the programs that we started when we engaged in these conversations if there's interest and we can always have a business discussion about it and if we believe that there is a deal that makes sense for both sides.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We disclose the programs that we've started when we engage in these conversations. If there's interest, then we can always have a business discussion about it. If we believe that there's a deal that makes sense from both sides, that's a positive thing. If not, the TCE space in oncology and autoimmunity has a very large number of potential opportunities. I'm not at all worried that we'd find that a conflict in something we're working on with a partner would get in the way of coming together to see this platform do what it really can.
Carl L.G. Hansen: That's a positive thing if not the TCE space in oncology and autoimmunity.
Carl L.G. Hansen: As a very large number of potential opportunities and.
Carl L.G. Hansen: I'm I'm not at all worried that we would find it a conflict and something we're working on with a partner would get in the way of coming together to to see this platform do it it really Ken.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Okay, and on the CD28 Coastim side, I'm guessing the objective there is to leverage CD3 and CD28 engagement on the same scaffold.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Okay.
Carl L.G. Hansen: On the CD 28 co stem side.
Stephen Douglas Willey: I'm guessing the objective there is to.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Leverage Cds, three and CD 28 engagement on the on the same scaffold.
Speaker Change: Is that correct.
Speaker Change: That's another good question so we have.
Carl L.G. Hansen: That's another good question. So we have generated binders for a couple targets for co-stimulation, recognizing that, you know, T-cell exhaustion and, you know, T-cell survival are another important problem that needs to be solved if you want to bring TCs to solid tumors. So we're running experiments internally with those right now and starting to understand how that science plays out. At this point, we haven't made a decision as to what the best format would be.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We have generated binders for a couple of targets for co stimulation rec.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Recognizing that.
Carl L.G. Hansen: T cell exhaustion and.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And T cell survival is another important problem that needs to be solved if you want to bring TCE to solid tumors. So we're running experiments internally with those right now and starting to understand how that science plays out at this point, we haven't made a decision as to what the best format would be and of course as you know Steve there.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And of course, as you know, Steve, there are leaders in the field that are approaching tri-specifics with dual engagement. There are some that are looking at two antibodies delivered together. I think both of those have merit. We're obviously watching that closely, but we're also doing work internally to see what looks best in our hands.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Our leaders in the field that are approaching tri specifics with dual engagement. There are some there looking at two antibodies delivered together I think both of those have merit, we're obviously watching that closely but we're also doing work internally to see what.
Carl L.G. Hansen: What looks best in our hands.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Okay, maybe just one financial question. So Andrew, I know you mentioned kind of the year-end impact on R&D spend with respect to the $20 million one time in. I'm just curious about the sequential step-down from 4Q, and I know that there was a restructuring that was announced, and I'm not sure how far along that is in terms of completion, but just wondering if, you know, the sequential downstroke in R&D spend is kind of indicative of maybe what a Yeah, hey, Steve.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Okay.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And then maybe just one.
Stephen Douglas Willey: My question, So Andrew I know, you mentioned kind of the year over year.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Impact.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Impact on R&D spend with respect to the $20 million one time.
Stephen Douglas Willey: 'twenty three but just curious about the sequential step down from <unk> and I know that there was a restructuring that was announced and I'm not sure how far along that is in terms of completion, but.
Stephen Douglas Willey:
Speaker Change: Just wondering if kind of the.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Sequential downstroke in R&D spend.
Stephen Douglas Willey: Is kind of indicative of maybe Florida today.
Stephen Douglas Willey: The trajectory should look like.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Andrew Booth: Yeah, hey, Steve, and Andrew here. Yeah, absolutely. The restructuring, first of all, is completely done. So that would have been taken care of in the Q4 numbers. And I think your real question there is, is the Q1 number a good indication of what the go-forward R&D expense is going to be? And I would say, yes, it is a good indication. And yes, it's quite a difference from Q1 of 2023 because of that $20 million one-time charge, which we called out at the time as well.
Andrew Booth: Yes, Hey, Steve Andrew here.
Speaker Change: Yes, absolutely the.
Andrew Booth: The restructuring first of all is completely done so that would have been taken care of in the Q4 numbers.
Andrew Booth: And I think that to I think your real question. There is is the Q1 number a good indication of what the go forward R&D expense is going to be and I would say, yes. It is a good a good indication and yesterday, it's quite a difference from Q1 of 2023 because of that $20 million, one time, which we called out at the time as well if you remember this.
Andrew Booth: If you remember this time last year, we did indicate there was a $20 million one-time expense related to co-development and internal programs. So we thought it was just prudent to point that out again and why there's that reduction.
Andrew Booth: Last year, we did indicate there was a $20 million one time expense related to co development and internal programs. So we thought it was just prudent to.
Andrew Booth: To point that out again and why there is that reduction.
Speaker Change: Okay got it thanks for taking the questions.
Operator: Our next question today is from the line of Pooneet Souda of Learinc Apartments. Please go ahead; your line is open.
Robyn Kay Shelton Karnauskas: Our next question today is from the line of pseudo of Leerink Partners. Please go ahead your line's open.
Puneet Souda: Hi Michael, you have Michael on for Puneet. My first question has to do with the deal that you closed with Viking and Aramark. I was curious. So I know you mentioned a couple years ago that you did deal with Atlas Ventures in person. Has the structure of the new partnership evolved in any meaningful way relative to the prior deals, kind of as your platform itself has also been evolving?
Operator: Hi, Michael on for Puneet.
Puneet Souda: First question has to do with the deal that you closed biking, Aramark I was curious.
Puneet Souda: So I know you mentioned a couple of years ago, you did deal with Atlas ventures in person.
Puneet Souda: Has the structure of new partnerships.
Puneet Souda: Evolved in any meaningful way relative to the prior deal.
Puneet Souda: Kind of like your platform itself has also been evolving.
Puneet Souda: Yes.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Hi Michael, Carl here. So I'll take that one.
Puneet Souda: Hi, Michael Carl here, So I'll take that one.
Carl L.G. Hansen: I don't know if we've disclosed the details of the structures of previous deals, but this opportunity to sum it up is based on a relationship with both Viking and Aramark and having gotten to know both teams and having a lot of respect for what they bring to the table in terms of target ideas and in terms of the ability to bring capital and teams together around assets to form companies. The structure here is that those two groups will bring forward ideas for first-in-class antibody therapeutics.
Carl: Don't know if we've disclosed the details of the structures that previous deals.
Carl L.G. Hansen: This opportunity to sum it up is based on our relationship with both Viking and Aramark.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Having having gotten to know both teams and have a lot of respect for what they bring to the table in terms of target ideas and in terms of the ability to bring capital and teams.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Together around assets to foreign companies.
Carl L.G. Hansen: The structure here is that.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Those two groups.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We'll bring forward ideas for first in class.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We will vet these, and we will come together on a work plan. Aramark and Viking fund the R&D to take that concept through to a development candidate, and if successful, that development candidate creates the basis for a new company. As Andrew mentioned in a previous question, we obtain an equity stake in that new company, and we also maintain a downstream stake in the molecules through milestones and royalties that are, you know, comparable and on the healthy side of what we've done traditionally in the partnership business.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Antibody therapeutics.
Carl L.G. Hansen: That feeds and we come together and the work plan.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Aramark in Viking fund the R&D to take that concept through to development candidate and if successful that development candidate creates the basis for a newco as Andrew mentioned on a previous.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Previous question.
Carl L.G. Hansen: We obtain an equity stake in that new co company and we also maintain a downstream stake in the molecules through milestones and royalties.
Carl L.G. Hansen: That are comparable on the healthy side of what we've done traditionally in the partnership business.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So, you know, that's not dissimilar from the deal that we did with Versant in the creation of Avdera. We like that deal a lot, and it's one of the things that we have called out previously as being squarely in the bucket of strategic partnerships.
Carl L.G. Hansen: So that's that's not dissimilar from certainly the deal that we did with with <unk> and accretion of that Dara, we like that deal a lot and it's one of the things that we've called out previously has been squarely in the bucket of strategic partnerships.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Okay.
Andrew Booth: Scott, my next question has to do with, I guess, this recent uptick in biotech funding. I know you've been mostly focusing on strategic partnerships and your internal pipeline, but I was curious if you think, if this funding were sustained, if there'd be any sort of impact on other parts of the business, or maybe even with these more VC firm-type deals, if that would potentially... I guess the number of potential new codes will grow.
Speaker Change: Got it and then my next question has to do with it.
Andrew Booth: Recent uptick in biotech funding I know you've been mostly focusing on strategic partnerships and your internal pipeline, but I was curious if you used.
Andrew Booth: Do you think it's just funding where sustained if there'd be any sort of impact.
Andrew Booth: In other parts of the business or maybe even with the more VC firm type deal that that would potentially.
Andrew Booth: Grow the number of potential new codes.
Operator: Hey, it's Andrew here. Yeah, I think it's possible. It's great to have a bit of a rebound in the biotech funding environment, and I think that can only provide a bit of a tailwind for our own business. But our real focus here is on advancing our own internal programs, building and completing the platform, and then on our strategic partnerships. Now, if ideas are funded, and we believe that they're good ideas, and partners come to us with an interesting opportunity, I mean, absolutely, we take a look at that, and are certainly open to the co-development, as well as the company creation, kind of deal structures that we have been doing recently.
Andrew Booth: It's Andrew here.
Operator: Yes, I think that's it's possible.
Operator: Great to have.
Operator: A bit of a rebound in the biotech funding environment and I think that can only.
Operator: Divided a bit of a tailwind for our own business, but our real focus here is on advancing our own internal programs building and completing the platform and then on our strategic partnerships now.
Operator: Ideas are funded and we believe that there are good ideas and partners come to us with.
Operator: With an interesting opportunity absolutely we take a look at that and are certainly open and the co development.
Operator: As well as the company creation kind of deal structures that we have been doing recently.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you.
Evan David Seigerman: As a reminder, for any further questions, please dial star followed by one now. And our next question today is from the line of Evan Seigerman of BMO. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: As a reminder for any further questions. Please all star followed by one now and our next question today is from the line of FMC given that BMO. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Evan David Seigerman: Hi there, this is Conor from Prev, and thanks for taking our question. I just have one follow-up on how you're thinking about phasing out OPEX as you look to bring assets into clinic. Is there a sweet spot of, you know, how many assets you might look to have in the clinic at any given time and then sort of partner out any additional assets beyond that?
Evan David Seigerman: I know this is connor on for Adam and Thanks for taking our question I just have one follow up on the how you're thinking about the phasing of Opex as you look to bring assets into clinic is there a sweet spot of how many assets you might look to have in the clinic at any given time, and then sort of partner out.
Operator: Or I don't know, I'm just curious how you think about that. Hey there, Conor. Andrew here.
Evan David Seigerman: Any additional assets beyond that or.
Andrew Booth: I don't know I'm, just curious how you're thinking about that thank you.
Operator: Hey there, Connor. Andrew here.
Andrew Booth: Yeah, good question. Of course, every program...
Andrew Booth: Hey, there Connor Andrew here.
Speaker Change: Yes. Good question of course every program has its own nuances and it's difficult to predict because it's going to be driven by the scientific data and the clinical data about how many will advance at the moment as you know we have.
Andrew Booth: Yeah, a good question. Of course, every program has its own nuances, and it's difficult to predict because it's going to be driven by the scientific data and the clinical data about how many will advance. At the moment, as you know, we have two development candidates in IND-enabling studies, with the objective of having both of those at IND and starting at Phase I in 2025. We do have some funding available through the Strategic Innovation Fund and the government of British Columbia that we announced last year, that essentially we're co-funding for a number of molecules through to the clinic over like an eight-year period.
Andrew Booth: We have two development candidates in 90, enabling studies with the objective of having both of those at IND and starting a phase one in 2025, we do have some funding available through this strategic innovation fund and the government of British Columbia that we announced last year that brought in that.
Andrew Booth: Yes.
Andrew Booth: Essentially we're co funding for a number of of molecules through to the clinic over like an eight year period.
Andrew Booth: But the rate at which they go in is very much going to depend on how good the programs are, what the data look like, and what the timing is as we bring them through IND-enabling studies. So it's very difficult to try and predict any sort of regular pace.
Andrew Booth: But that.
Andrew Booth: The rate at which they go and is very much going to depend on how good are the programs what is the data looked like and.
Andrew Booth: And what the timing is as we bring them through to through IND, enabling studies. So it is very difficult to try and predict any sort of regular pace.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Thank you. And I'm showing no further questions at this time. So I'd like to hand back over to Carl Hansen for any closing remarks.
Andrew Booth: Thank you and I'm showing no further questions at this time, so I'd like to hand back over to Carl Hansen for any closing remarks.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Just thank you everyone for joining us today. This remains an exciting time at the company, and we're looking forward to keeping you updated on future calls.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Just thank you everyone for joining us today.
Carl L.G. Hansen: Remains an exciting time at the company and we're looking forward to keeping you updated on future calls.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.
Speaker Change: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for joining you may now disconnect your lines and we're looking forward to keeping you updated on future calls.
Carl L.G. Hansen: And we're looking forward to keeping you updated on future calls.