Q1 2024 Old Republic International Corp Earnings Call
Good afternoon, My name is Audrey and I will be your conference operator today.
Audra: Good afternoon. My name is Audra, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Old Republic International First Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.
Audra: This time I would like to welcome everyone to the old Republic International first quarter 'twenty 'twenty four earnings Conference call. Today's conference is being recorded all lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you'd like to ask a question. During this time simply press the star key followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
Audra: After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press the star key followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star one again. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Joe Calabrese of the Financial Relations Board. Please go ahead.
Joe Calabrese: Got you.
Joe Calabrese: If you would like to withdraw your question Press Star one again.
Audra: At this time I would like to turn the conference over to Joe Calabrese with the financial Relations Board. Please go ahead.
Joe Calabrese: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for the Old Republic conference call to discuss first quarter twenty twenty four results. This morning, we distributed a copy of the press release and posted a separate financial supplement. Both of the documents are available on Old Republic's website, which is www.oldrepublic.com. Please be advised that this call may involve public statements, as discussed in the press release and financial supplement dated April 25th, 2024.
Audra: Okay.
Joe Calabrese: Good afternoon, everyone and thank you for joining us for the Old Republic conference call to discuss first quarter 2024 results.
Joe Calabrese: We distributed a copy of the press release and posted a separate financial supplement both of the documents are available at old Republic's website, which is W. W. W. Dot old Republic Dot com.
Joe Calabrese: Please be advised that this call may involve forward looking statements.
Joe Calabrese: As discussed in the press release and financial supplement dated April 25 2024.
Joe Calabrese: Risks associated with these statements can be found in the company's latest SEC filing. This afternoon's conference call will be led by Craig Smiddy, President and CEO of Old Republic International Corporation, and several other senior executive members, as planned for this meeting. At this time, I'd like to turn the call over to Craig Smiddy. Please go ahead, sir.
Joe Calabrese: Risks associated with these statements can be found in the company's latest SEC filings.
Joe Calabrese: This afternoon's conference call will be led by Craig Smiddy, President and CEO of Borg Republic International Corporation.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Several other senior executive members as planned for this meeting.
Joe Calabrese: At this time I'd like to turn the call over to Craig Smiddy. Please go ahead Sir.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay, Joe Thank you.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay, Joe. Thank you. Good afternoon again, everyone, and welcome to Old Republic's first quarter 2024 earnings call. With me today is Frank Sodaro, our CFO of ORI, and Carolyn Monroe, our President and CEO of our Title Insurance business. Well, during the first quarter of 2024, we produced $231.5 million of consolidated pre-tax operating income. That's up from $222.9 million in 2023, despite the challenges that we'll talk about that we're seeing in title insurance.
Speaker Change: Good afternoon, again, everyone and welcome to old Republic's first quarter 2024 earnings call.
Craig Richard Smiddy: With me today is French scenario, our CFO of <unk>, and Carolyn Monroe, our president and CEO of our title insurance business.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Well during the first quarter of 'twenty 'twenty four we produced $231 5 million of consolidated pre tax operating income that's up from $222 9 million in 2023. Despite the challenges that we'll talk about that we're seeing in <unk>.
Craig Richard Smiddy: I don't want insurance.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our consolidated combined ratio was 94.3, a bit higher than the 92.7 last year, and primarily that's because of the higher combined ratio we're seeing in title insurance. General Insurance's strong underwriting results continued into 2024, producing $220 million of pre-tax operating income, and that's a 14% increase year over year. The general insurance combined ratio was 90.3 in the quarter. In title insurance, higher mortgage interest rates and a slow real estate market presented us with some challenges. And that led to a much lower pre-tax operating income of $2 million and a 102.5% combined ratio in the quarter.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our consolidated combined ratio was 94.3, a bit higher than the $92 seven.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Last year, and primarily that's because of the higher combined ratio, we're seeing in title insurance.
Craig Richard Smiddy: General insurance is strong.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Your writing results continued into 2024, producing $220 million of pretax operating income and Thats, a 14% increase year over year.
Craig Richard Smiddy: The general insurance combined ratio was 93 in the quarter.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And title insurance higher mortgage interest rates and a slow real estate market presented us with some challenges.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And that led to much lower pre tax operating income up $2 million and a 100 point 102.5 combined ratio in the quarter.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our conservative reserving practices continued to produce favorable prior year reserve development.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our conservative reserving practices continue to produce favorable prior year reserve development in both general insurance and title insurance, and we'll talk about that a little bit more. Our balance sheet remained strong while we returned capital to shareholders through both dividends and share repurchases. Focused on the long term, we are investing in our new general insurance underwriting subsidiaries as well as in technology, and that goes for both general insurance and title insurance.
Craig Richard Smiddy: In both general insurance and title insurance, and we will talk about that a little bit more.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our balance sheet remained strong while we returned capital to shareholders through both dividends and share repurchases.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Focused on the long term, we are investing in our new general insurance underwriting subsidiaries as well as in technology and that goes for both general insurance and title insurance.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So with those introductory comments I will now turn the discussion over to Frank Sodaro, and then Frank will turn things back to me to cover General insurance.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So with those introductory comments, I will now turn the discussion over to Frank Sodaro. And then Frank will turn things back to me to cover general insurance, followed by Carolyn who will discuss title insurance. And then, as usual, we'll open up the conversation for Q&A. So with that, Frank, I turn the discussion over to you.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Followed by Caroline who will discuss title insurance.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: And then as usual well open up the conversation for Q&A, So with that Frank I turn the discussion over to you.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Thank you Craig and good afternoon everyone. This morning we reported a net operating income of 185 million compared to 179 million last year. On a per share basis, net operating income was 67 cents in the quarter, up nearly 10% from last year. Investment income increased another 19% in the quarter, and that was driven by higher yield. Our average reinvestment rate on corporate bonds was 5%, while the comparable book yield on corporate bonds disposed of was 3.4%.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Thank you Craig and good afternoon, everyone. This morning, we reported net operating income of $185 million compared to $179 million last year.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: On a per share basis net operating income was 67 in the quarter up nearly 10% from last year.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Net investment income increased another 19% in the quarter and that was driven by higher yields.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Our average reinvestment rate on corporate bonds was 5%, while the comparable book yield on corporate bonds disposed of was three 4%.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: The total bond portfolio book yield stands at 4.1% compared to 4% at the end of last year. Our investment portfolio mix remained consistent with last quarter. With regard to the bond portfolio, the quality also remained very high, with 99 percent of the bonds being investment grade, and the average maturity was consistent at 4.3 years.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Total bond portfolio book yield stands at four 1%.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Impaired to 4% at the end of last year.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Our investment portfolio mix remained consistent with last quarter with regard to the bond portfolio. The quality also remained very high with 99% in investment grade Securities.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: And the average maturity was consistent at four three years.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: During the quarter, the valuation of our bond portfolio decreased by approximately $100 million driven by higher interest rates, while the value of our stock portfolio increased by about $185 million. Much of the increased value was realized in the quarter, so we ended in an unrealized gain position consistent with last year's end of just over $1.1 billion. From a loss reserve perspective, General Insurance and Title both recognized favorable developments in the quarter, leading to a benefit of 2.3 percentage points to the consolidated loss ratio.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: During the quarter the valuation of our bond portfolio decreased by approximately $100 million driven by higher.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Interest rates, while the value of our stock portfolio increase.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: By about $185 million.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Much of the increased value was realized in the quarter. So we ended in an unrealized gain position consistent with last year end of just over $1 1 billion.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: From a loss reserve perspective in general insurance and titled both recognized favorable development in the quarter, leading to a benefit of two three percentage points to the consolidated loss ratio.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: This compares with a favorable development of 4.5 points last year. We are still expecting to close on the sale of our runoff mortgage insurance operation during the second quarter. Activity from this operation is immaterial to our consolidated results and, due to the pending sale, no longer has an impact on our bottom line. We ended the quarter with a book value per share of $23.83, which, inclusive of dividends, equated to an increase of 3.4%.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: This compares to favorable favorable development of four five points last year.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: We are still expecting to close on the sale of our run off mortgage insurance operation during the second quarter.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Activity from this operation is immaterial to our consolidated results and due to the pending sale no longer has an impact on our bottom line.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: We ended the quarter with book value per share of <unk> 23.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: 83.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Which inclusive of dividends equated to an increase of three 4%.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: And that resulted from our strong operating earnings and higher investment valuation. In the quarter, we paid $72 million in dividends and repurchased $183 million worth of our shares for a total of just over $264 million returned to shareholders. Now, since the end of the quarter, we repurchased another $146 million worth of shares, leaving us with about $840 million remaining in our current repurchase program. So I'll now turn the call back over to Craig for a discussion of general insurance.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: And that resulted from our strong operating earnings and higher investment valuations.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: In the quarter, we paid 72 million in dividends and repurchased $183 million worth of our shares for a total of just over $264 million returned to shareholders.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Now since the end of the quarter, we repurchased another $146 million worth of shares.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Leaving us with about 840 million remaining in our current repurchase program.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: So I'll now turn the call back over to Craig for a discussion of general insurance.
Craig: Okay, Frank Thanks for that.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay Frank, thanks for that. General insurance net written premiums were up 14% in the quarter with strong renewal retention ratios, rate increases on most lines of coverage, new business growth, and premium production kicking in in our new underwriting subsidiary. DNO and workers' compensation are the lines of coverage where we do continue to see rate decreases, and I'll talk a little bit more about that when I discuss workers' compensation. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, general insurance pre-tax operating income was $220 million, and the combined ratio was 90.3.
Craig Richard Smiddy: General insurance net written premiums were up 14% in the quarter with strong renewal retention ratios rate increases on most lines of coverage new business growth and premium production kicking in in our new underwriting subsidiaries.
Craig Richard Smiddy: D&O and workers compensation are the lines of coverage, where we do continue to see rate decreases.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Talk a little bit more about that when I discuss workers' compensation.
Craig Richard Smiddy: As mentioned in my opening remarks General insurance pre tax operating income was $220 million and the combined ratio was 93.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So we continue to grow at a very profitable level in general insurance. The loss ratio for the quarter was 62.7, and that included 2.5 points of favorable reserve development. The expense ratio was steady at 26.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So we continue to grow at a very profitable level in general insurance.
Craig Richard Smiddy: The loss ratio for the quarter was $62 seven and that included two five points of favorable reserve development the.
Craig Richard Smiddy: The expense ratio was steady at 26% excuse me 27 six.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Turning to our two largest lines of coverage, commercial auto net premiums written grew by more than 15% in the quarter, while the loss ratio came in at 71.9 compared to 73.7 last year. And we continue to experience favorable developments from prior years in this line of coverage; rate increases were in the 10% range, and that continues to be commensurate with the loss trend that we're observing. Workers' compensation net premiums increased by 4.5% in the quarter, while the loss ratio came in at 47 compared to 52.5 last year.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Turning to our two largest lines of coverage.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Commercial auto net premiums written grew by more than 15% in the quarter, while the loss ratio came in at $71 nine compared to $73 seven last year.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And we continue to experience favorable development from prior years and this line of coverage.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Rate increases were in the 10% range and that continues to be commensurate with the loss trend that we're observing.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Workers compensation net premiums written increased by four 5% in the quarter, while the loss ratio came in at 47 compared to $52 five last year.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And here, too, we continue to experience favorable prior year loss development. Frequency for workers compensation continues the years-long trend downward. While the severity trend remains relatively stable, given the higher trend in payroll, which, as a reminder, is our rating base, we think our rate levels remain adequate, even with rate decreases of approximately 5% for workers' compensation. We expect solid growth and profitability in general insurance to continue throughout 2024, reflecting the success of our specialty strategy, our excellence initiatives, and our new underwriting subsidiary. So, I'll now turn the discussion over to Carolyn to report on title insurance. Carolyn? Thank you.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And here too we continue to experience favorable prior year loss development.
Carolyn: Frequency for Workers' compensation continues the yours long trend downward.
Carolyn: The severity trend remains relatively stable so given the higher trend in payroll, which as a reminder, that is our rating base. We think our rate levels remain adequate even with rate decreases of approximately 5% for workers' compensation.
Carolyn: We expect solid growth and profitability in general insurance to continue throughout 2024, reflecting the success of our specialty strategy, our excellence initiatives and our new underwriting subsidiaries.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So I'll now turn the discussion over to Carolyn to report on title insurance Carolyn.
Carolyn: Thank you Craig the title group reported premium and fee revenues for the quarter of 545 million. This represents a decrease of 6% from first quarter 2023 directly produced premium and fees were up 8% from first quarter 2023, while agency produced premium.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Craig, the Tyma Group reported premium and fee revenues of $1.4 million in the first quarter of 2023. Directly produced premiums and fees were up 8% from the first quarter of 2023, while agency produced premiums were down 10%. As a reminder, agency-produced business represents the bulk of our business and is generally reported on about a one-quarter lag compared to direct business. Commercial premiums decreased 24% this quarter compared to the first quarter
Carolyn Jean Monroe: So we're down 10%.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: As a reminder agency produced business represents the bulk of our business and is generally reported on about a one quarter lag compared your direct business.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Commercial premiums decreased 24% this quarter compared to the first quarter of 2023 commercial premiums grew 21% of our earned premiums this quarter compared to 25% in first quarter of 2023.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Commercial premiums were 21% of our earned premiums this quarter compared to 25% in the first quarter of 2023. The nationwide expanded and transformed footprint of our commercial team, along with our commercial agency services group, positions us well for when the market rebounds. While challenging market conditions and interest rate uncertainties persist as the second quarter begins, we believe the trends in our order counts, along with a modest uptick in our directly produced revenues, are positive signals as we head into the seasonally more active market period.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: The nationwide expanded and transformed footprint of our commercial team along with our commercial agency services group positions us well for when the market rebounds.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: While challenging market conditions and interest rate uncertainties persist as the second quarter begins we believe the trends in our order counts along with a modest uptick in our directly produced revenues are positive signals as we head into the seasonally more active market period.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Our pre tax operating income of $2 million compared to $17 million in first quarter 2023.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Combined ratio of 102 point side compared to 99 three in the first quarter of 2023 and as a reminder, the first quarter of last year results were impacted by the recovery of a $17 million state sales tax assessment.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Our pre-tax operating income of $2 million compared to $17 million in the first quarter of 2023. Our combined ratio of 102.5 compared to 99.3 in the first quarter of 2023. And as a reminder, the first quarter of last year's results were impacted by the recovery of a $17 million state sales tax assessment.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Excluding this favorable impact our expense ratio and pre tax operating income for the quarter was roughly in line with the first quarter of 2023.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We continue to diligently manage our expenses. However, our expense ratio remains elevated and reflects the nature of certain fixed costs decreasing at a slower pace than the drop in revenues.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Excluding this favorable impact, our expense ratio and pre-tax operating income for the quarter were roughly in line with the first quarter of 2023. We continue to diligently manage our expenses, however, our expense ratio remains elevated and reflects the nature of certain fixed costs decreasing at a slower pace than the drop in revenue. As we have been discussing on past calls, our leadership team is focused on executing our strategic plan and the drive and need to stay on the leading edge of technology.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: As we've been discussing on past calls our leadership team is focused on executing our strategic plan and the drive and need to stay on the leading edge of technology. Our strategic plan is built around our agents and our people one of the cornerstones of the plan is our focus on innovation that enables the success of our agents.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: As we continue to emphasize this includes streamlining the closing process to fully digital and hybrid E closing <unk> executed on a single secure collaborative platform and offering our agents a comprehensive approach to help address wire fraud, and assist with pay off verification where.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Our strategic plan is built around our agents and our people. One of the cornerstones of the plan is a focus on innovation that enables the success of our agents. As we continue to emphasize, this includes streamlining the closing process through fully digital and hybrid e-closings executed on a single, secure, collaborative platform and offering our agents a comprehensive approach to help address wire fraud and assist with payoff verification. We're also providing state-of-the-art cloud-based title production and transaction management solutions to modernize and streamline operations.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Also providing state of the art cloud based title production and transaction management solutions to modernize and streamline operations.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We believe providing the best tools to our internal teams and agents will provide us with an advantage in this market and when the market improves one last item because we've received a few questions recently regarding proposals at the federal level that could change how title insurance is transacted.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: These include the use of attorney opinion letters in place of title insurance and changes to who pays for or even waivers for title insurance and certain transactions.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We would characterize these developments as early stage and still subject to much debate in lobby.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: But considering the recent press we wanted to note that we are tracking these developments and at this time do not anticipate any significant implications for our business.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We believe providing the best tools to our internal teams and agents will provide us with an advantage in this market and when the market improves. One last item, because we have received a few questions recently regarding proposals at the federal level that could change how title insurance is transacted. These include the use of attorney opinion letters in place of title insurance and changes to who pays for or even waivers title insurance in certain transactions.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Thank you and I'll turn the call back to Craig.
Speaker Change: Thank you Carolyn.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: So we enter 2024 with a continuation of profitable growth and general insurance mitigating the lower revenue or profit levels and title insurance.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: And for the rest of 2024, we remain optimistic for general insurance, while we remain of the view that title insurance will continue to face mortgage interest rate and real estate marketplace challenges.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: So that concludes our prepared remarks, and we'll now open up the discussion and Q&A and I will either answer your questions or I'll ask Frank Our Carolina response.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We would characterize these developments as early stage and still subject to much debate and lobbying. But considering the recent press, we wanted to note that we are tracking these developments and, at this time, do not anticipate any significant implications for our business. Thank you, and I'll now turn the call back to Craig.
Craig: Thank you we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have dialed in I would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We'll take our first question from Matt Karaleti at citizens J M P.
Craig: Hey, Thanks, good morning.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So we enter 2024 with a continuation of profitable growth in general insurance, mitigating the lower revenue and profit levels in title insurance. And for the rest of 2024, we remain optimistic about general insurance while we remain of the view that title insurance will continue to face mortgage interest rate and real estate marketplace challenges. So, that concludes our prepared remarks, and we'll now open up the discussion to Q&A, and I'll either answer your questions, or I'll ask Frank or Carolyn to respond. Thank you.
Frank: Hi, Matt.
Speaker Change: I guess good afternoon now.
Speaker Change: I guess, maybe just I'll start with title, where where you kind of left off on the commentary.
Speaker Change: Couldn't help but notice and you noted how kind of the direct showed some growth agency continued to shrink, but theres a lag there.
Speaker Change: Are you are you seeing a shift in the market, where you would expect kind of agency to flatten out a return to growth even despite kind of the stickiness of mortgage rates and you're just seeing it first indirect or is there something else going on there that that kind of keeps those two acting a little differently.
Operator: Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. We'll take our first question from Matt Carletti at Citizens JMP.
Operator: Okay.
Matthew John Carletti: Caroline if you could.
Matthew John Carletti: Perhaps embellish a little bit on the comments you made earlier about.
Matthew John Carletti: What we're observing there in our order count as well as in our direct operations.
Operator: Sure.
Matthew John Carletti: We always.
Matthew John Carletti: Use our direct operations as kind of a bellwether for what's also going on with our agents because they're all out in the same.
Matthew John Carletti: I guess good afternoon now. I guess maybe just I'll start with the title where you kind of left off in the commentary and couldn't help but notice, and you noted how kind of the direct showed some growth, your agency continued to shrink, but there's a lag there. Are you seeing a shift in the market where you would expect kind of agency to flatten out or return to growth, even despite kind of the stickiness of mortgage rates, and are you just seeing it indirectly, or is there something else going on there that kind of keeps those two acting a little different?
Matthew John Carletti: The same market so because the agency the agent's report their premiums to us on a lag of about.
Matthew John Carletti: Three months.
Matthew John Carletti: We feel like because high direction.
Matthew John Carletti: The orders are starting to uptick and also that our revenue has increased we should see that from our agents just the normal lag we should see an uptick in agency business in the second quarter about the same as we see it in the direct does that help.
Matthew John Carletti: Yeah. It does and as you I guess a follow up would be as you kind of 8% was kind of a number lets say for Q1 for direct.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Carolyn, could you perhaps embellish a little bit on the comment you made earlier about what we're observing there in our order count as well as in our direct operations?
Carolyn: Was it did it kind of build throughout the quarter or was it a particular month that hold it up or just trying to get a little bit more but the cadence of it yeah.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We always use our direct operations as kind of a bellwether for what's also going on with our agents because they're all out in the same, you know, the same market. And because the agency, the agents report their premiums to us on a lag of about three months. We feel like because of our direct, orders are starting to uptick, and also that our revenue has increased. We should see that from our agents, just the normal lag. We should see an uptick in agency business in the second quarter, about the same as we see in the directs. Does that help?
Carolyn Jean Monroe: It definitely would build throughout the quarter January.
Speaker Change: It was a pretty quiet month and as you know.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Every months progressed, and we're seeing sort of the same trend in April.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Wonderful.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: And then my other questions on General insurance, just the favorable development in the results.
Speaker Change: You noted that it was a favorable comp favorable commercial auto offset by a little bit of adversity and general liability can you can you put numbers on those or at least orders of magnitude.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: It does. And as you, I guess, follow up would be as you kind of, well, 8% was kind of the number, let's say, for Q1 for direct. Was it, did it kind of build throughout the quarter? Was it a particular month that pulled it up? Or just trying to get that a little bit more of the cadence of it?
Carolyn Jean Monroe: And then just particularly on the geologists in there a particular accident years or it was pretty well spread out.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Frank do you want to comment on that.
Speaker Change: Sure I'll give you will fare with some order of magnitude.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: The majority of our development this quarter was coming from workers comp and.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: It definitely would build throughout the quarter. You know, January was a pretty quiet month, and as every month progressed, and, you know, we're seeing sort of the same trend in April.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: And it's pretty widespread years.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Commercial auto then.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Probably a fourth that came from commercial auto that's coming a lot from them. It's like our year's that are coming out of our loss picks and youre familiar how we are held years. So it's those years that are developing favorably. The most and then GL as an offset about comparable maybe a little bit more than the commercial auto was.
Matthew John Carletti: Okay, wonderful. And then my other questions on general insurance, just the favorable development and the results. You noted that it was a favorable comp, favorable commercial auto, offset by a little bit of adverse and general liability. Can you put numbers on those or at least orders of magnitude? And then, particularly on the GL, just are there particular hacks of the ears, or is it pretty well spread out?
Matthew John Carletti: And that's kind of split into two buckets about half of it is coming from very old years.
Matthew John Carletti: Just a.
Matthew John Carletti: A few programs that are that have been around for a while and then about the other half coming from the years of about 15 through 'twenty, one it's kind of spread out and I guess, what I one of the things I'd like to say is this is a very fairly small line for us and it's it's written in a lot of our businesses. So its kind of just scattered there is there.
Matthew John Carletti: There is no shock of of adverse development that was material to any one of our businesses, but it's just a little little scattered throughout so.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Frank, do you want to comment on that? Uh, sure.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Sure, I'll give you, we'll start with some order of magnitude. The majority of our development this quarter was coming from workers comp, and it's pretty widespread across years. Commercial auto, then you know, probably a fourth came from commercial auto. That's coming a lot from the, it's like our years that are coming out of our lost picks, and you're familiar with how we are held years. So it's those years that are developing favorably the most. And then GL is an offset about comparable, maybe a little bit more than the commercial auto was favorable.
Frank: Hopefully that gives you enough.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: [noise] enough color.
Speaker Change: That's perfect. Thank you very much for the color is very helpful.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Yeah.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Well move next to Gregory Peters at Raymond James.
Speaker Change: Good afternoon, everyone, Hi, Gregg sorry.
Speaker Change: So for the first question I'm going to focus on that.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Top line growth and your general insurance business.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: And I think you know the results in commercial auto workers' comp pretty explanatory.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: And that's kind of split into two buckets. About half of it is coming from very old programs, just a few that have been around for a while.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: But I was looking at some of the smaller segments and we're seeing some pretty good growth property and general liability in that I'm trying to triangulate, Greg because you are correct because you said.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: And then about the other half, coming from the years of about 15 through 21, it's kind of spread out. And I guess one of the things I'd like to say is this is a fairly small line for us, and it's written in a lot of our businesses. So it's kind of just scattered. There was no shock of adverse development that was material to any one of our businesses.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: You talked about the new business initiatives, so maybe some of those new business initiatives.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Our inside some of these other segments, but I'm just curious about the growth we're seeing in some of those other segments.
Speaker Change: Sure Greg.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Your inclination is right.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: As a reminder, we.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: But it's just a little scattered throughout. Simply, it gives you enough, and of color.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: We have four relatively new.
Francis Joseph Sodaro: Your writing subsidiaries over Republic inland marine over a public E&S over a public.
Matthew John Carletti: That's perfect. Yeah. Thank you very much for the call. That was very helpful.
Matthew John Carletti: Lawyers professional and then lastly over Republic, A&H and Euro.
Gregory Peters: We'll move next to Gregory Peters at Raymond.
Gregory Peters: Youre right, we are starting to see premiums come through.
Operator: Good afternoon, everyone. Hi Greg.
Gregory Peters: At a fairly decent clip with inland marine business in E&S business and as you point out a lot of that business.
Gregory Peters: So for the first question, I'm going to focus on the top line growth in your general insurance business. And I think, you know, the results in Commercial Auto and Workers' Comp are pretty self-explanatory. But I was looking at, you know, some of the smaller segments, and we're seeing some pretty good growth in property and general liability. And then I'm trying to triangulate, Craig, because you are Craig, because you said, you talked about the new business initiatives. So maybe some of those new business initiatives are inside some of these other segments. But I'm just curious about the growth we're seeing in some of those other segments.
Gregory Peters: As in the in.
Gregory Peters: The property bucket on the supplement in the general liability bucket.
Gregory Peters: Supplement so.
Gregory Peters: It's safe to say that theory, those new underwriting subsidiaries are contributing to what youre seeing there and on the other hand, none of those.
Gregory Peters: For any new underwriting subsidiaries are writing.
Gregory Peters: Workers' compensation so.
Speaker Change: Nothing there is attributable to that to those entities.
Speaker Change: Just a point of clarification on that and thanks for the answer Craig is it your expectation that that growth of those businesses going to be accelerating as we move through the year.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Sure, Greg. Well, your inclination is right. As a reminder, we have four relatively new underwriting subsidiaries, Old Republic Inland Marine, Old Republic E&S, Old Republic Lawyers Professional, and then lastly, Old Republic A&H. And you're right, we're starting to see premiums come through at a fairly decent clip with inland marine business and E&S business, and as you point out, a lot of that business is in the property bucket on the supplement and the general liability bucket on the supplement.
Speaker Change: Or is it just steady states.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Opportunistic or maybe it's a combination of both.
Speaker Change: I would say accelerating is the clear answer.
Craig Richard Smiddy: In a ramp up mode and all of those entities.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Yes.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Inland Marine.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Produced premium last year and produced a profit last year.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So it's safe to say that those new underwriting subsidiaries are contributing to what you're seeing there. And on the other hand, none of those four new underwriting subsidiaries are writing workers' compensation insurance, so nothing there is attributable to those entities.
Craig Richard Smiddy: On that underwriting.
Craig Richard Smiddy: They are still in a ramp up mode, but perhaps the.
Craig Richard Smiddy: The incline is a little less than it would be on E&S E&S has a steeper incline and they to produce premium last year, but.
Gregory Peters: Just a point of clarification on that, and thanks for the answer Craig. Is it your expectation that the growth of those businesses is going to be accelerating as we move through the year, or is it just steady state? You know, opportunistic, or maybe it's a combination of both.
Gregory Peters: There is a very decent E&S market out there and our.
Gregory Peters: Our production efforts.
Gregory Peters: Have been.
Gregory Peters: <unk> enhanced even in.
Craig Richard Smiddy: I would say accelerating is the clear answer. We're in a ramp-up mode with all of those entities. And Inland Marine produced a premium last year and made a profit last year on that underwriting. They are still in a ramp-up mode, but perhaps the incline is a little less than it would be on E&S. E&S has a steeper incline, and they too produced premium wines last year, but there's a very decent E&S market out there, and our production efforts have been greatly enhanced even in the first quarter and as we move into the second quarter with new distribution partners.
Gregory Peters: In the first quarter and and.
Craig Richard Smiddy: As we move into the second quarter with distribution new distribution partners. So that will continue at a.
Craig Richard Smiddy: To accelerate and then.
Craig Richard Smiddy: As our.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Lawyers business and A&H business comes in line there. They were the last two and they are in the very early stages.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Therefore, their ramp up will be fairly steep as we go out through the rest of 2024.
Speaker Change: Okay fair enough and just a clarification because inland marine is a pretty big bucket lawyers can be a pretty big bucket A&H.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So that will continue to accelerate, and then as our lawyers business and A&H business come in line, they were the last two, and they're in the very early stages, and therefore, their ramp-up will be fairly steep as we go out through the rest of 2024.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our very specific targeted niche is inside those categories correct.
Speaker Change: They are indeed, Greg and thank you for pointing that out.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Yes, the inland marine that that we are writing is <unk>.
Gregory Peters: Okay, fair enough, and just clarification because you know Inland Marine is a pretty big bucket, lawyers can be a pretty big bucket, A&H, these are very specific targeted niches inside those categories, correct?
Gregory Peters: Very targeted with regard to class geography size of business.
Gregory Peters: And a.
Gregory Peters: Very spur.
Gregory Peters: Specialty focused on certain.
Gregory Peters: Niches within that fairly large bucket of inland marine.
Craig Richard Smiddy: They are indeed, Greg, and thank you for pointing that out. Yeah, the Inland Marine that we are writing is very targeted with regard to class, geography, size of business, and very... Specialty focused on certain niches within that fairly large bucket of inland marine. And you mentioned lawyers, and professionals; there, too, that's in the marketplace is a fairly large bucket. But for us, it is a fairly tight bucket. It is relationships that we are developing with state bar associations where they sponsor the business, and most of the business is very sticky for those associations and tends to be smaller accounts with a low number of lawyers within each of those insurance policies. So it's small lawyers through state bar associations on a state-by-state basis, so it's very targeted.
Craig Richard Smiddy: <unk>.
Craig Richard Smiddy: You mentioned lawyers professional there too.
Craig Richard Smiddy: In the marketplaces are fairly large bucket for us is a.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Fairly tight bucket it is.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our relationships that we are developing with.
Craig Richard Smiddy: The state bar associations, where they sponsor the business and most of the business is very sticky for those associations and.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And tends to be smaller.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Accounts with.
Craig Richard Smiddy: A low number.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Lawyers within each of those insurance policies. So its small lawyers through state bar associations on a state by state basis, So very targeted.
Speaker Change: Excellent thanks for that clarification so.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Excellent. Thanks for that clarification.
Gregory Peters: So, my other area, you know, just giving some attention to the title business. You know, the revenue is down again. I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Hi, My other area just giving.
Gregory Peters: Some some attention to the title business.
Speaker Change: The revenue is down again I appreciate it.
Gregory Peters: Carolyn, your comments about the lag nature of that gave us some idea that the expense ratio was, there were some anomalies going through that. You know, is your expectation for this year that the expense ratio for the title business will x this anomaly that happened? Is it going to be in the same range as it sort of was last year or is your view on that change?
Speaker Change: On your comments about the lag nature that you you gave.
Gregory Peters: You gave us some idea that the expense ratio was there was some anomalies going through that.
Gregory Peters: Hi.
Gregory Peters: Your is your expectation for this year that the expense ratio for the title business ex this anomaly that happened is it going to be in the same range as it sort of was last year or.
Gregory Peters: Is your view on that changed.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Caroline I think.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Yeah, Carolyn, I think Greg's question, you know, it's hard to know what's happening with interest rates and the real estate market, especially as we get further out toward the end of the year. But Greg, I think if we answer your question, I'll let Carolyn do that. Assuming that the business would be, and the revenues would be flat with last year, I think this is probably the context in which we should answer that question, and I'll hand it to you, Carolyn.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Greg's question.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Hard to know, what's happening with interest rates and and and.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And.
Carolyn: Real estate market, especially as we get further out towards the end of the year, but Greg I think if we answer your question and I'll, let Carol and do that.
Carolyn: Assuming that.
Carolyn: The business would be the revenues would be flat with last year I think is probably the context in which we should answer that question and I'll hand, it to you Caroline.
Carolyn: Yes, that's correct.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Yeah, that's, that's correct. We are really trying to reach the same combined ratio that we did last year. It's just going to depend on revenues. You know, we've got our expenses in line. And so we, we, we don't feel like we just need the revenues to start coming back and at least be what they were last year. And, you know, we're kind of a glass half full kind of group, and with just sort of the trends we're seeing just right now at the beginning of the year, we really believe we can aim for what we did last year.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We are really trying to reach the same <unk>.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Combined ratio that we did last year, it's just going to depend on the revenues.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We've got our expenses in line and so we we don't.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We don't feel like.
Speaker Change: Yes, we.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Just we need the revenues to start coming back and at least be what they were last year.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We're kind of a glass half full kind of group and we've just sort of the trends. We're seeing just right now at the beginning of the year.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We really believe we can.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Aim for what we did last year.
Operator: Okay, thank you very much for the answers. Thanks, Craig. And, as a reminder,
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Sure.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much for the answers.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Craig.
Operator: And as a reminder, if you have a question. Please press star one well go next to Paul Newsome with Piper Sandler.
Operator: And as a reminder, if you have a question, please press star one. We'll go next to Paul Newsome on Piper Sandler. Hello, Paul. Are you there? You may have your line muted.
Operator: Okay.
Operator: Yeah.
Jon Paul Newsome: Hello, Paul.
Jon Paul Newsome: Are you there.
Jon Paul Newsome: Paul You May have your line muted.
Jon Paul Newsome: Okay, how about this? Hopefully, you can hear me. Sorry, guys.
Jon Paul Newsome: Okay, how about this.
Jon Paul Newsome: Yes, we can hear.
Jon Paul Newsome: Great.
Jon Paul Newsome: I want to talk a little bit about, maybe some context for the last quarter, with the GL business. It looks like there was a little reserve negativity this quarter. Last quarter, if I recall, it wasn't GL, it was Commercial Auto, but now Commercial Auto has turned out to be a good guy this quarter. Am I remembering that right? Is that a fair assessment? The thought is you usually don't have this sort of quarterly variation.
Jon Paul Newsome: Sorry, guys.
Jon Paul Newsome: <unk>.
Jon Paul Newsome: I wanted to talk a little bit about.
Jon Paul Newsome: And maybe some context with the last quarter.
Jon Paul Newsome: All business.
Jon Paul Newsome: But it looks good all reserve negative 70, this quarter last quarter, if I recall it wasn't it was.
Jon Paul Newsome: Commercial auto, but down commercial auto has turned to be a good guy this quarter it might remembering that right. So.
Jon Paul Newsome: Is that.
Jon Paul Newsome: Is that a fair amount.
Jon Paul Newsome: And then I.
Speaker Change: I guess, so I'm, usually you don't have the sort of quarterly variation.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Yeah, well, let me
Speaker Change: Unless it's really small well let me.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Well, let me comment on that and refer back to our comment last quarter. So we were still having favorable reserve development on commercial autos throughout last year. I think what you're referring to that I spoke a little bit about on the last call was that, after seeing the end-of-year results, we decided that we wanted to move our current accident-year loss ratio for commercial auto back to where it was in 2022. So it didn't deteriorate. Matter of fact, I think it was still just a few points in percentage better.
Speaker Change: Let me comment on that and refer back to our comments last quarter. So.
Craig Richard Smiddy: We were still having favorable reserve development on commercial auto throughout last year.
Craig Richard Smiddy: I think what youre, referring to that I spoke a little bit about.
Craig Richard Smiddy: On our last call was that at the end.
Craig Richard Smiddy: After seeing the end of the year results, we decided that we wanted to move our current accident year loss ratio for commercial auto back to where it was in 2022 so it didn't it did.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Deteriorate matter of fact, I think it was still just.
Craig Richard Smiddy: A few.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Points of percentage better, but we went into the year thinking that it would be a little bit lower and at the end of the year. We said, we're going to go back in for the whole year because of our conservative nature.
Craig Richard Smiddy: But we went into the year thinking that it would be a little bit lower. And at the end of the year, we said, we're gonna go back, and for the whole year, because of our conservative nature, we said, let's set it to where it was back in 2022. So favorable development is not bouncing around by any stretch.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Said, let's let's say, let's set it to where it was back in 2022, so they're there.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Favorable development is not bouncing around by any stretch we had favorable development for the last several years on commercial auto because of our conservative approach and our conservative approach again was demonstrated that we got to the end of the accident year, and we said you know let's slip.
Craig Richard Smiddy: We have had favorable developments for the last several years on commercial auto because of our conservative approach. And our conservative approach, again, was demonstrated that we got to the end of the accident year, and we said, "Uptick that accident year loss ratio a little bit just to make sure we have that cushion we strive for." And so that's what happened last year. It wasn't anything unfavorable, you know, coming from prior years. There's no favorable development in one quarter and unfavorable development in another quarter.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Uptick that accident year loss ratio.
Craig Richard Smiddy: A little bit just to make sure we have that cushion we strive for.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And so that's what happened last year it wasn't anything unfavorable.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Coming from prior years, there is no.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Favorable development in one quarter unfavorable development and another quarter. It was simply taking at the end of the year, we took a little bit more conservative approach than we started the year with on commercial auto, but it was still up.
Craig Richard Smiddy: It was simply taking At the end of the year, we took a little bit more of a conservative approach than we started the year with on commercial auto, but it was still a loss ratio that was a bit lower than it was in the year before. So that's what happened. And therefore, when we saw favorable commercial auto come through again this first quarter, that was within our expectations.
Craig Richard Smiddy: A.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Loss ratio that was.
Craig Richard Smiddy: A bit lower than it was in the year before so.
Craig Richard Smiddy: That's what happened and therefore, when we saw favorable commercial auto come through again this first quarter that was within our expectations.
Jon Paul Newsome: And on to the GL, I get it, it's not a big part of the business, but one of the investors I spoke to today was quite concerned that it may be sort of a relatively fast-growing part of the business, and, you know, that growth is always bad, right, from our perspective. You know, is that really fair to say?
Craig Richard Smiddy: And onto the GL.
Jon Paul Newsome: It's not a big part of the business what are the investments I spoke to the was quite concerned that maybe sort of.
Jon Paul Newsome: Relatively fast growing part of the business.
Jon Paul Newsome: Okay.
Jon Paul Newsome: Growth has always been Kumar perspective.
Jon Paul Newsome: Is that really fair to say.
Jon Paul Newsome: We don't think of you as a GL company leases.
Jon Paul Newsome: Well a lot of different businesses.
Jon Paul Newsome: Is this a priority or is just sort of happening sort of organically because.
Jon Paul Newsome: With Sky business.
Speaker Change: I understand the question Paul and.
Speaker Change: What I would tell you is that the growth youre seeing in NGL I'll tie back to the comments.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Because, you know, I don't think of you as a GL company. And, like you said, it's sort of spread out over a lot of different businesses. Is this a priority or is it just sort of happening sort of organically because, What's going on in your business?
Craig Richard Smiddy: That I gave to Greg when he asked about that grow the majority of that is coming from.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Our E&S operation.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Which is.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Focused on very small policies with very low hazard.
Craig Richard Smiddy: I understand the question Paul, and what I would tell you is that the growth you're seeing in GL, I'll tie back to the comments that I gave to Greg when he asked about that growth. The majority of that is coming from our ENS operation, which is focused on very small policies with very low-hazard general liability exposure. And the other piece I would add is that where we saw the unfavorable development in GL, even though, as you point out, it's a small line for us, and if you look at the supplement and you look at the general liability loss ratio, and you go back those five years that we show there, it's been between 78 and as low as 56.
Craig Richard Smiddy: General liability type of exposure and.
Craig Richard Smiddy: The other.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Piece I would add is that where we saw the unfavorable development.
Craig Richard Smiddy: In GL, even though as you point out it's a small line for us and if you look at the supplement and you look at the general liability loss ratio and you'd go back those five years that we show there.
Craig Richard Smiddy: It's been between 78 and as low as 56, but.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So the 74% that we saw this quarter is really almost smack dab in the middle of those last five years. So it is nothing for us that that jumps out we expect volatility in that line and where we did take some unfavorable development was from <unk>.
Craig Richard Smiddy: So the 74% that we saw this quarter is really almost smack dab in the middle of those last five years, so it's nothing for us that jumps out. We expect volatility in that line, and where we did see some unfavorable developments was from business that has a very different complexion than the business we're riding in the new Old Republic ENS. Those older years are a business that looks nothing like the business that we're riding in today and that we're at.
Craig Richard Smiddy: <unk> that has a very different complexion.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And then the business, we're writing in the new old Republic.
Craig Richard Smiddy: E&S.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Those older years.
Craig Richard Smiddy: <unk> business.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Business that looks nothing like the business that we're writing in.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Today and that we're adding.
Speaker Change: Great and maybe I can squeeze one final question.
Craig Richard Smiddy: No.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Biggest sort of pushback I get on title is concerned.
Jon Paul Newsome: Right, maybe I can squeeze one title question in. The biggest sort of pushback I get on title is concerned that essentially title insurance is eliminated for refunded, and any sense of like what that would do to your business, and you know I don't know if the majority of what you do is refinancing or is refinancing, or it just depends. Any thoughts on that?
Jon Paul Newsome: Essentially title insurance.
Jon Paul Newsome: Refinancing.
Jon Paul Newsome: <unk>.
Jon Paul Newsome: Any sense of like what that would do to your business.
Jon Paul Newsome: I don't know if majority of what you do is not refinancing is refunding.
Jon Paul Newsome: <unk>.
Jon Paul Newsome: Any thoughts on that.
Jon Paul Newsome: Yes.
Speaker Change: Cost Carolyn and then you can take it from there.
Jon Paul Newsome: Caroline in her opening remarks touched on and we touched really on three different things that have emerged at the federal level.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Yeah, I'll kick off, Carolyn, and then you can take it from there. You know, Carolyn, in her opening remarks, touched on, and we really touched on, three different things that have emerged at the federal level. And as Carolyn said, we really don't see it materially affecting our business. And, I think, as you all know, we are very straightforward, and we tell it like it is. And if we were concerned that it was going to have an impact, we would tell you that.
Craig Richard Smiddy: And as Caroline said, we really don't.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Don't see it.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Materially.
Craig Richard Smiddy: <unk>, our business and I think as you all know.
Craig Richard Smiddy: We are very straightforward and we tell it like it is and if we were concerned that it was going to have an impact we would tell you that.
Craig Richard Smiddy: But we have.
Carolyn: Looked at all of those issues very closely as a team working with.
Craig Richard Smiddy: American Land Title Association on their views, and at the end of the day, because of different reasons, depending on which one of these things you're talking about. It may change who pays for something, whether it's the borrower or the lender, but we don't see it materially impacting the business because, at the end of the day, in order for a lender to sell a mortgage in the secondary market, they're going to need title insurance. And Carolyn, I'll turn it to you to add more color if you can.
Craig Richard Smiddy: American land title Association on their views and and.
Carolyn: At the end of the day.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Because.
Carolyn: Of different reasons for depending on which one of these things you are talking about.
Craig Richard Smiddy: It may change who pays for something.
Carolyn: Whether it's the borrower or the lender but.
Carolyn: We don't see it materially impacting the business because at the end of the day.
Carolyn: In order for a lender to.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Well a mortgage in the secondary market theyre going to need title insurance and Carolyn I'll turn it to you to.
Carolyn: Add more color if you can.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Sure, and the other thing behind this is that, you know, no one wants to turn the GSEs into insurance companies. And that's what happens if they don't get title insurance. It's the same with any lender. So that's why, you know, we'll follow this. And our trade association has, you know, been diligent about telling the title story. But, you know, title insurance is really about prevention. And we do all the work to make sure there isn't a claim. And, you know, we just feel like that, you know, more education on this should help.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Sure.
Carolyn: The other thing behind this is.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: No.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: No one wants to turn the gse's into insurance companies and Thats what happens if they.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Don't get title insurance, it's the same with any lenders. So that's why.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: We will follow this and our trade association has been diligent about telling.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Telling the title story, but.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Insurance is really about preventive.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: And we do all the work to make sure there isn't a claim and we just feel like that more education on this should help because this all goes back to affordability.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Because this all goes back to affordability, and title insurance isn't really what's stopping affordability right now in homes. So the last thing you want to do is turn a lender or the GSEs into a title insurance company. And that I just don't see that happening. Now, the flip side is, you know, recent answers are not a large part of Old Republic's business. We have a lot of attorney agents, so while we're concerned, it's always something that we would be able to deal with should it happen. Great, thank you
Carolyn Jean Monroe: And title insurance isn't really what stopping the affordability right now and in homes. So the last thing you want to do is turn a lender the gse's into a title insurance company and.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: I just don't.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: See that happening now the flip side is.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Refinances are not a large part of the.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Old Republic's business are we have a lot of attorney agents.
Carolyn Jean Monroe: Well, we're concerned it's always something that we would be able to deal with should it happen.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you I appreciate the help.
Jon Paul Newsome: Great. Thank you. I appreciate the help.
Speaker Change: Thank you Paul.
Speaker Change: And that does conclude our Q&A session I will now turn the conference back over to management for closing remarks.
Operator: And that does conclude our Q&A session. I will now turn the conference back over to management for closing remarks.
Speaker Change: Okay, well, we have started 2024 and we feel we have good momentum in general insurance and.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay, well, we've started 2024, and we feel we have good momentum in general insurance. And even though we're cautious about title because we don't have any way to predict interest rates and real estate markets, in the long term, we're hopefully optimistic that things will turn out okay. We think there's pent-up demand and, as Carolyn pointed out, initial indications could be positive. So we thank you all for your interest and your support and look forward to talking to you again after our second quarter. Thank you very much.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Even though we are cautious about title because we don't have.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Any way to predict.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Interest rates and in real estate markets in the long term.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Were hopefully optimistic that.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Things will turn whether you think there's pent up demand and as Karen pointed out.
Craig Richard Smiddy: Initial indications could be positive so.
Craig Richard Smiddy: We thank you all for your interest and your support and look forward to talking to you again after our second quarter. Thank you very much.
Operator: That does conclude today's conference call. Again, thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: That does conclude today's conference call again. Thank you for your participation you may now disconnect.
Operator: Yeah.
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