Q2 2024 Host Hotels & Resorts Inc Earnings Call
Jaime Marcus: Good morning and welcome to the Holst Hotels and Resorts 2nd Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the call over to Jaime Marcus, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations.
Jaime Marcus: Thank you and good morning everyone. Before we begin, please note that many of the comments made today are considered to be forward-looking statements under federal securities laws.
Operator: as described in our filings with the SBA. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties, in yesterday's earnings and in the supplemental financial information on our website, with me on today's earnings are Jim Risoleo, president and chief; Sourav Ghosh, Executive Vice President and Chief, which includes business interruption proceeds of $21 million for the Maui wildfires and $9 million for Hurricane Iam.
Speaker Change: As described in our filings with the SEC, these statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could cause future results to differ from those expressed, and we are not obligated to publicly update or revise these forward-looking statements.
In addition, on today's call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial information, such as FFO, adjusted EBITDA RE, and comparable hotel-level results.
Jaime Marcus: You can find this information, together with reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAP information in yesterday's earnings press release, in our 8K files with the SEC, and in the supplemental financial information on our website at hosthotels.com.
Jaime Marcus: With me on today's call are Jim Risoleo, President and Chief Executive Officer.
Sourav Ghosh: and Sourav Ghosh, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker Change: With that, I would like to turn the call over to Jim.
Jim: Thank you, Jaime, and thanks to everyone for joining us this morning.
Jim Risoleo: In the second quarter, we delivered adjusted EBITDA RE of $476 million and adjusted FFO per share of 57 cents.
Jaime Marcus: which includes business interruption proceeds of 21 million dollars for the Maui wildfires and nine million dollars for Hurricane Ian.
Operator: We delivered a year-over-year comparable hotel total REBPAR improvement of 50 basis points. Turning to quarterly results, second quarter comparable hotel Red Park faced headwinds from a slower than anticipated recovery in Maui and a continued shift in leisure demand to international destinations without a corresponding increase in international inbound demand. As discussed last quarter, this understates the true impact of the wildfires, as we would have expected Maui to contribute 90 basis points to portfolio red part growth in the second quarter, given the renovation disruption at Fairmont Keelani in 2023 and the expected lift for 2024. However, the lodging recovery in Maui has been slower than anticipated due to several factors.
Jaime Marcus: We delivered a year-over-year comparable hotel total REBPAR improvement of 50 basis points, underscoring the continued strength of out-of-room revenue while comparable hotel REBPAR was up 10 basis points.
Jaime Marcus: As a reminder, our second quarter operational results discussed today refer to our comparable hotel portfolio, which excludes the Ritz-Carlton Naples and Alila Bentana Big Sur.
Jaime Marcus: As discussed last quarter, this understates the true impact of the wildfires, as we would have expected Maui to contribute 90 basis points.
Jaime Marcus: As a result, the total estimated impact of the wildfires on second-quarter REPAR is 340 basis points.
Jaime Marcus: The lodging recovery in Maui has been slower than anticipated due to several factors.
Operator: First, recovery and relief room demand has diminished without a commensurate level of leisure demand to offset the decline. Our properties booked 315,000 group room nights in the year for the year, bringing our definite group room nights on the books for 2024 to 4 million rooms with total group revenue up 6% compared to the same time last year. Domestic leisure demand moderated as consumers opted for international destinations in Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean.
Jaime Marcus: First, recovery and relief room demand has diminished without a commensurate level of leisure demand to offset the decline.
Jaime Marcus: However, this has improved from down 19% in June and down 26% last September .
Jaime Marcus: And lastly, there remains a perception from would-be visitors that Maui is not ready to welcome guests back to the island.
Speaker Change: Our properties are collaborating with local tourism authorities and government officials to create a clear, well-supported marketing campaign that will launch this fall after the anniversary of the tragic fires.
Jaime Marcus: We are hopeful that this will be a turning point in the recovery trajectory and consumers were once again feel comfortable returning to Maui.
Jaime Marcus: Turning to Business Mix.
Jaime Marcus: Our properties booked 315,000 group room nights in the year for the year, bringing our definite group room nights on the books for 2024 to 4 million rooms with total group revenue pace up 6% compared to the same time last year.
Jaime Marcus: Business Transient Revenue Group 4% driven fairly evenly by demand and rate growth.
Jaime Marcus: We believe the international travel imbalance remains a key driver of lower leisure demand at our properties.
Jaime Marcus: At the same time, U.S. international inbound travel remains below pre-pandemic levels at 88%, as a strong dollar, weaker global economic growth, and visa delays continue to present headwinds to the inbound recovery.
Jaime Marcus: but spa and golf revenues continued growing outside of Maui.
Jaime Marcus: As we highlighted last quarter, nearly 40% of our total revenue in 2023.
Jaime Marcus: The property is expected to rank among our top 10 assets based on estimated full year 2024 results.
Jaime Marcus: with an expected rep par of $545, tread par of $735, and even a per key of over $100,000, further improving the quality of our portfolio.
Operator: But spa and golf revenues continued growing outside of Maui, coming from food and beverage and other revenue. And our 2024 guidance assumes a similar proportion. The LEED Certified Luxury Property opened in 2015. It has 25 suites and a recently added five-key penthouse that offers large terraces and unparalleled views of Central Park, as well as a presidential suite. The lobby level features Jams, a three-course restaurant and bar affiliated with James Beard Award winner Jonathan Waxman.
Operator: The second floor offers 2,000 square feet of contiguous and flexible meeting space, as well as a naturally lit fitness center and a business center. It will also provide hosts with exposure to luxury guests in Upper Manhattan, the top rep parts submarket in the city. This creative capital recycling allows us to grow our 2023 adjusted EBITDA RE by 6% above 2019 levels. Since 2022, we have repurchased $258 million of stock at an average repurchase price of $16.26 per share. Included in the ROI projects is the Hyatt Transformational Capital Program, which is on track and slightly under budget thus far.
Speaker Change: The $630 million dollar resort acquisition price is net of key money and represents a 16.3 times EBITDA multiple or a cap rate of approximately 5.3% on 2024 estimated results.
Speaker Change: Based on preliminary 2025 underwriting and the conversion to a Ritz-Carlton, the acquisition price represents an approximate 13.5 times EBITDA multiple or a cap rate of approximately 6.7%.
Speaker Change: We expect this resort to stabilize between approximately 10-12 times EBITDA in the 2027-2029 timeframe.
Speaker Change: Due to the timing of the acquisitions, the One Hotel Central Park and the Ritz-Carlton Oahu Turtle Bay are not yet included in our Comparable Hotel Guidance Metrics.
Speaker Change: They will be included starting in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: These two acquisitions are expected to generate 22 million dollars of adjusted EBITDA for our ownership period which is included in our adjusted EBITDA RE and FFO guidance for 2024.
Jaime Marcus: which represents over $100 million of estimated four-year EBITDA that we expect to grow as the assets stabilize.
Speaker Change: In May of 2023, we laid out a path to $2 billion of EBITDA at our Investor Day. With these acquisitions, we are halfway toward our target of $3 billion of acquisitions at a lower blended EBITDA multiple than we assumed at that time.
Speaker Change: Since 2018, we have acquired $4.9 billion of assets at a 13.6 times even or multiple
Speaker Change: After adjusting for post-quarter transactions, we have 1.4 billion dollars of total available liquidity and net leverage of 2.7 times.
Speaker Change: Since 2022, we have repurchased $258 million of stock at an average repurchase price of $16.26 per share.
Speaker Change: Our 2024 Capital Expenditure Guidance Range is $500 to $600 million, which reflects approximately $220 to $260 million of investment per redevelopment, repositioning, and ROI projects.
Operator: We received $2 million of operating guarantees in the second quarter to offset business disruptions related to the Hyatt Transformational Capital Program, and we expect to benefit from an additional $5 million this year, bringing the total operating guarantees to $9 million in 2024. Wrapping up, we believe Host is well positioned to continue to outperform. While we would certainly prefer to see more leisure demand in the U.S. versus abroad, it is encouraging to see consumers continue to prioritize spending on travel and experiences.
Speaker Change: The development is well underway and marketing efforts began in July . We anticipate the formal sales launch to begin in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Wrapping up, we believe Host is well positioned to continue to outperform.
Speaker Change: We remain optimistic about the state of travel today despite the softer than expected recovery in Maui and moderating domestic leisure transient demands.
Speaker Change: And when it does, we believe Host is well-positioned to benefit due to our geographically diversified, iconic, and irreplaceable portfolio, as well as the recent reinvestments we have made and continue to make in our properties.
Speaker Change: Thank you, Jim, and good morning, everyone. Building on Jim's comments, I will go into detail on our second quarter operations, updated 2020-4 guidance, and our balance sheet.
Speaker Change: Starting with business mix, overall transient revenue was down 5% compared to the second quarter of 2023, driven by softer-than-anticipated demand in Maui.
Speaker Change: Additionally, food and beverage outlet revenue per occupied room grew at both resorts and non-resorts.
Speaker Change: We believe the rate strength at our resorts and continued growth of out-of-room spending indicates consumers' ongoing willingness to spend on travel and experiences.
Speaker Change: Excluding Maui, Memorial Day weekend and July 4th outperformed our expectations due to strong last-minute transient bookings in the weeks leading up to the holiday weekends.
Operator: Looking forward, and excluding Maui, Labor Day transient revenue pace is up 9% compared to the third quarter of last year, driven by occupancy. For full year 2024, we have approximately 4 million definite group room nights on the books, representing a 9% increase since the first quarter. Group rate on the books is up 4%, and total group revenue pace is up 6% over the same time last year, driven by a particularly strong third quarter and a continued focus on growing banquet and catering contributions. Shifting Gears to Margins Excluding the business interruption proceeds, operations in Maui had a 60 basis point impact on Iwera Margin.
Speaker Change: Looking forward and excluding MAUI, Labor Day transient revenue pace is up 9% compared to the third quarter of last year driven by occupancy.
Speaker Change: Demand growth was market specific with certain hotels in Chicago and San Francisco showing double-digit year-over-year growth in business transient demand.
Speaker Change: Encouragingly, Boston and New York both exceeded 2019 levels of business transient demand in the second quarter.
Speaker Change: Approximately half of the growth came from San Diego, Phoenix and Nashville with the balance coming from our other top markets.
Speaker Change: For full year 2024, we have approximately 4 million definite group room nights on the books, representing a 9% increase since the first quarter, keeping us ahead of same time last year.
Speaker Change: Shifting gears to margins, second quarter comparable hotel EBITDA margin of 32.6% was 10 basis points below last year, driven by increases in wages, benefits, and fixed expenses, as well as impacts from Maui.
Speaker Change: We received $21 million of business interruption proceeds from the Maui wildfires, which provided a 135 basis point benefit to the comparable portfolio.
Speaker Change: Despite these headwinds, our controllable expenses, which include laundry, linens, and guest supplies, were flat versus the second quarter of 2023 due to net operational improvements across our portfolio.
Operator: Turning to our revised outlook for 2024, the midpoint of our guidance contemplates a slower than anticipated recovery from the wildfires in Maui and moderating domestic leisure transient demand, primarily driven by the international demand imbalance. For full year 2024, we anticipate comparable hotel REFPA growth of between negative 1% and positive 1% over 2023, particularly in the third quarter. We estimate the Maui wildfires will impact full-year comparable hotel total REF PAR by 120 basis points and REF PAR by 180 basis points.
Speaker Change: Turning to our revised outlook for 2024, the midpoint of our guidance contemplates a slower than anticipated recovery from the wildfires in Maui and moderating domestic leisure transient demand, primarily driven by the international demand imbalance.
Speaker Change: At the low end, we have assumed slower group pickup and softer leisure transient demand. And at the high end, we have assumed a faster recovery at our Maui resorts and increased transient pickup.
Speaker Change: We expect comparable hotel EBITDA margins to be down 110 basis points year-over-year at the low end of our guidance to down 60 basis points at the high end.
Speaker Change: particularly in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: We estimate the Maui wildfires will impact full-year comparable hotel total REF PAR by 120 basis points and REF PAR by 180 basis points.
Operator: Excluding business interruption proceeds, we expect adjusted EBITDA RE to be impacted by $75 to $80 million relative to our pre-fire estimates. We expect a comparable hotel EBITDA margin midpoint of 29.3%, which is 90 basis points below 2023. We estimate a 30 basis point impact on full year EBITDA margin from Maui relative to our pre-fire estimate, a 40 basis point impact from insurance and property taxes, and a 110 basis point impact from wage and benefit rating fees, which is partially offset by a 90 basis point benefit from operational improvement.
Speaker Change: Excluding business interruption proceeds, we expect adjusted EBITDA RE to be impacted by $75 to $80 million relative to our pre-fire estimate.
Speaker Change: In terms of REFPA growth cadence, we expect comparable hotel REFPA growth to be slightly positive in the second half of the year, driven by low single-digit growth in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: We expect a comparable hotel EBITDA margin midpoint of 29.3%, which is 90 basis points below 2023.
Speaker Change: We estimate a 30 basis point impact to full year EBITDA margin from Maui relative to our pre-fire estimate.
Speaker Change: A 40-basis point impact from insurance and property taxes, and a 110-basis point impact from wage and benefit rating fees, which is partially offset by a 90-basis point benefit from operational improvements.
Speaker Change: This includes an estimated $62 million contribution from operations at the Ritz-Carlton Naples and $11 million from operations at Alila Ventana Big Sur, an increase of $5 million compared to our prior guidance.
Speaker Change: As a reminder, the Ritz-Carlton Naples and Alila Ventana Big Sur are excluded from our comparable hotel set for the full year 2024 forecast.
Speaker Change: Our adjusted EBITDA and FFO guidance also includes an estimated $22 million contribution from the One Hotel Central Park and the Ritz-Carlton O'ahu Total Bag for our ownership period.
Speaker Change: Turning to our balance sheet and liquidity position, our weighted average maturity is 4.7 years at a weighted average interest rate of 4.9% after adjusting for investing and financing activities completed subsequent to quarter end.
Speaker Change: As Jim noted, we currently have $1.4 billion of in total available liquidity, which includes $242 million of FFNE reserves.
Speaker Change: In July , we paid a quarterly cash dividend of $0.20 per share, demonstrating our commitment to returning capital to stockholders.
Speaker Change: As always, future dividends are subject to approval by the company's Board of Directors.
Operator: We will continue to be strategic and opportunistic in managing our balance sheet and liquidity position as we move through the remainder of 2024. To conclude, we remain optimistic about the future of travel as the headwinds facing our portfolio are not indicative of a weakening consumer. As Maui recovers and the International Leisure Demand Imbalance finds equilibrium, our renovated portfolio of geographically diverse properties is well positioned to benefit. With that, we would be happy to take your questions.
Speaker Change: We will continue to be strategic and opportunistic in managing our balance sheet and liquidity position as we move through the remainder of 2024.
Speaker Change: To conclude, we remain optimistic about the future of travel as the headwinds facing our portfolio are not indicative of a weakening consumer.
Speaker Change: As Maui recovers and the international leisure demand imbalance finds equilibrium, our renovated portfolio of geographically diverse properties is well positioned to benefit.
Speaker Change: With that, we would be happy to take your questions. To ensure we have time to address as many questions as possible, please limit yourself to one question.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, we will be conducting a question and answer session. We ask today that, in the interest of time, you limit yourself to one question. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue.
Speaker Change: Thank you. At this time, we will be conducting a question and answer session.
David Katz: You may press star 2 if you would like to remove your question from the queue. And the first question today is from David Katz from Jeffreys. David, your line is live. You know Jim, congrats on all of the acquisitions to everybody. Can you just talk about the possibility, the prospects, probability, boundaries around any further acquisitions that we might see this year or even early next from what you can tell today?
Speaker Change: For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the start keys. One moment please while we pull for questions.
Speaker Change: And the first question today is coming from David Katz from Jeffreys. David your line is live.
David Katz: Good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah, David, I think that, you know,
Speaker Change: These are one-of-a-kind properties in each instance and you know we were fortunate enough to have the balance sheet and the relationships to be able to transact when an asset like Turtle Bay comes to market.
David Katz: You know, we referenced in a recent press release that we just sent out, I think it was yesterday, that Ritz Turtle Bay Oahu is now part of the Ritz-Carlton system. It went live yesterday when we closed on the hotel.
Speaker Change: We referenced in a recent press release that we just sent out, I think it was yesterday, that Ritz, Turtle Bay, Oahu,
James Risoleo: It's a unique property for a lot of reasons, but, you know, one of the things that I think is worthy of pointing out is that there was a half a million dollars per key invested in that asset, and Ritz-Carlton took the hotel without a pip. So, we believe there's going to be a lot of upside over and above the metrics that we quoted, which were based on 2025 pro forma, a 13.5 times EBITDA multiple, and a 6.7% cap rate.
Speaker Change: is now part of the Ritz-Carlton system.
Speaker Change: It went live yesterday when we closed on the hotel. It's a unique property for a lot of reasons, but, you know, one of the things that I think is worthy of pointing out is that there was a half a million dollars per key invested in that asset, and Ritz-Carlton took the hotel without a pip.
Speaker Change: So we believe there's going to be a lot of upside over and above the metrics that we quoted, which were based on 2025 pro forma, a 13.5 times even a multiple, and a 6.7% cap rate.
James Risoleo: We think that property has a lot of running room. We haven't taken into consideration in our underwriting any incremental EBITDA generated from the residences that are currently being developed by another developer on the site, as well as our 49 acre parcel of land. So, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to acquire that hotel, and we're in a unique position to do it. The same with Central Park, which we just announced yesterday as well. A little bit of background on Central Park and a little bit of background on why luxury.
Speaker Change: We think that property has a lot of run room we haven't taken into consideration in our underwriting.
Speaker Change: Any incremental EBITDA generated from the residences that are currently being developed by another developer on the site, as well as our 49-acre parcel of land. So, it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to acquire that hotel, and we're in a unique position to do it.
Speaker Change: The same with Central Park that we...
Speaker Change: just announced yesterday as well. A little bit of background on Central Park and a little bit of background on, you know, why luxury? Why is Host focused on luxury assets?
James Risoleo: Why is Host focused on luxury assets? pivot to other capital allocation decisions and opportunities that might be out there.
Speaker Change: This is something that we started exploring back in 2017, quite frankly, and, you know, if you look at luxury...
Speaker Change: Repar Kagers. These are assets that have a Repar of greater than $500.
Speaker Change: They have meaningly outperformed Upper Upscale and other segments in the lodging space over extended periods of time. From the period of time 2019 to 2023, luxury Kager was 4.7% versus Upper Upscale 1.3%.
Speaker Change: So we expect that we're going to continue to be able to drive this type of performance from the acquisitions we made.
Speaker Change: which will lead to elevated EBITDA growth and elevated free cash flow which will allow us to continue to to take those proceeds and invest in our in our portfolio or
James Risoleo: Now, to get back to your question, I don't think that we are contemplating doing additional acquisitions this year or even early next year. You never know of that one opportunity that might come knocking at the door, you know, where there is a great asset with a great opportunity to buy it because of some distress situation. We certainly are more focused today on integrating these three great properties that we acquired into the host system, into our asset management and enterprise analytics platform. And we will continue to invest in our portfolio generally because we... Thanks for the answer,
Speaker Change: and pivot to other capital allocation.
Speaker Change: decisions and opportunities that might be out there.
Speaker Change: Now, to get back to your question, I don't think that we are contemplating doing additional acquisitions this year or even early next year. You never know.
Speaker Change: of that one opportunity that might come over the door, you know, where there is a great asset with a great opportunity to buy it because of some distress situation, but
Speaker Change: We certainly are more focused today on integrating these three great properties that we acquired into the host system, into our asset management and enterprise analytics platform.
Speaker Change: and we will continue to invest in our portfolio generally because we...
Speaker Change: are very happy with the results that we've achieved from the 24
Speaker Change: total transformational renovations that we've completed to date where
Speaker Change: The 14 properties that have stabilized operations have picked up 7 points in yield index.
Speaker Change: well above our underwriting and, you know, we think that position is great going forward. And we'll also consider buying back additional stock. We still have...
Speaker Change: $742 million on our stock repurchase program. In the second quarter, we bought $50 million worth of stock at 17.81 per share.
Speaker Change: Looking back to 2020...
Speaker Change: throughout the pandemic to today, we've purchased $400 million at $1635 per share. So we're certainly not
Speaker Change: try about getting into the market and acquiring our own stock, particularly given where we're seeing the share price trading today.
Speaker Change: Understood. Thanks for the answer. Appreciate it.
Operator: I appreciate it. Thank you. The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Stephen, your line is live. Okay, we will move on to Chris Darling from Green Street.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Stephen, your line is live.
Speaker Change: Stephen, please check your mute button. Your line is live.
Speaker Change: Stephen Grambling, your line is live. Please proceed with your question.
Speaker Change: Okay, we will move on to Chris Darling from Green Street.
Chris Darling: Jim, maybe following up on that last question, actually, you mentioned acquisitions are unlikely in the near term and that you're pivoting instead to deploying capital through, you know, whether ROI projects or else share repurchases. With that in mind, I wonder what role incremental dispositions might play in pursuit of that strategy and whether you're thinking about testing the market in any regard? Disregarded pricing recently and made a decision that really, you know, given that we are under no pressure whatsoever to dispose of assets, and we will only do so if we believe that the pricing is fair relative to our hold value, the market dynamic just isn't there today. The cost of debt is still prohibitive from a valuation perspective.
Chris Darling: Hey, thanks. Good morning, everyone.
Chris Darling: Jim, maybe following up on that last question, actually, you mentioned acquisitions are unlikely in the near term and pivoting instead to deploying capital through, you know, whether it's ROI projects or else share repurchases. With that in mind, I wonder what role incremental dispositions might play in pursuit of that strategy and whether you're thinking about testing the market in any regard.
Chris Darling: Good morning, Chris. Thanks for the question. Yes, you know, we have
Chris Darling: explored
Speaker Change: disposition pricing recently.
Speaker Change: and made a decision that really, you know, given that we are under no pressure whatsoever to dispose of assets, and we will only do so if we believe that
Speaker Change: The pricing is fair relative to our hold value. The market dynamic just isn't there today.
Speaker Change: The cost of debt is still prohibitive from a valuation perspective. You know, we've been in the unique position to be able to transact.
Operator: You know, we've been in the unique position to be able to transact given our balance sheet, and there really aren't any other players out there that are in that position. So we'll keep an eye on the market as we always do, and if we think there are opportunities to continue to enhance the overall growth profile of the portfolio by disposing of assets, that's certainly something we will consider going forward. Understandable. Well, you know, we are really happy being the owners of one hotel. You know, Barry Starlake, of Starwood Capital. We've always thought of Barry as an innovator. I mean, he started with the W brand.
Speaker Change: and there really aren't any other players out there that are in that position.
Speaker Change: vision for those hotels. Obviously, you've done very well in Miami in a pretty short period of time. I know the entity that manages them, but is there a longer-term play there in terms of some other co-branding or something else you might do to kind of enhance the longer term?
Operator: And I think one is really an extension of W. Our performance in Miami has been really quite incredible. We bought that at, I think, roughly a 13 times multiple in 2018. And in 2023, we were, you know, around 10 times, 10, 10 and a half times, something like that. In 2022, we actually got down to sub-8 times.
Speaker Change: value of those. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Well, you know, we are really happy being an owner of one hotel, you know, Barry Starlake, Starwood Capital. We've always thought of Barry as an innovator. I mean, he started with the W brand.
Speaker Change: And I think one is really an extension of W, our performance in
Speaker Change: Miami has been really quite incredible. We bought that at, I think, roughly a 13 times multiple in 2018.
Operator: So we like the performance of the brand. We like where he's heading with it, where SH Hotels is heading around the globe and elsewhere for distribution. But it's not something that we've had conversations about co-branding or anything of that nature.
Speaker Change: In 2023, we were, you know, around 10 times, 10, 10 and a half times, something like that. In 2022, we actually got the
Speaker Change: down to sub-8 times. So we like the performance of the brand. We like where he's heading with it, where SH Hotels is heading.
Speaker Change: around the globe and elsewhere for distribution, but...
Speaker Change: It's not anything that we've had conversations about co-branding or anything of that nature. So.
Speaker Change: We just said we think they do a great job and we have a great relationship with them and we hope that we can continue to expand that relationship going forward.
Speaker Change: Okay. Very good. Thanks, Jim.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Dory Keston from Wells Fargo. Dory, your line is live.
Dory Keston: Thanks. Good morning. As you were putting together guidance this quarter, what were the aspects of the guide that you were more uniformly agreeing upon internally versus which required a more vigorous discussion? We're just trying to get a sense of how de-risked the second half of the year is at this point.
Operator: So we just said that we think they do a great job and we have a great relationship with them, and we hope that we can continue to expand that relationship going forward. Good morning, Dori.
Speaker Change: Good morning, Joy. Yeah, I think what...
Joy: gave us sort of the confidence in our guide as we went about it is really the group booking pace remained strong for the second half. We actually picked up 241,000 rooms.
Operator: Yeah, I think what gave us sort of confidence in our guide as we went about it was really the group booking pace remained strong for the second half. We actually picked up two hundred and forty one thousand rooms in Q2 for the second half, and about a hundred and forty three thousand or so were for Q3. So that's sixty eight percent.
Speaker Change: in Q2 for the second half.
Speaker Change: and about 143,000 or so was for Q3, so that's 68%. So Q3 pace is actually high single digits.
Sourav Ghosh: So Q3 pace is actually high single digits. So we're very confident about the group in the third quarter. We did take a risk in the fourth quarter from a group perspective, just around election week. Typically, in any given election year, the week of elections is always a softer group pace, and you can see that. But this year, we're using a little softness following the election week as well, in terms of pace. So we adjusted for that.
Speaker Change: So we're very confident about a group in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: We did de-risk the fourth quarter from a group perspective just around election week. So typically, in any given election year, the week of elections is always a softer group.
Sourav Ghosh: The bigger two pieces that we spoke about in our prepared remarks are really the softer recovery that we are seeing in Maui. So that's in our second half as well as what we did was we saw the short term, a lot of lack of short term leisure pickup in Q2, and that effectively, we have extrapolated into the second half as well. So those were the items that we took into consideration when looking at guidance. Just a quick clarification, Sourav. So Q3 group pace is up high single digits. So what's transient, like on the books now for Q3, what is transient and down?
Speaker Change: Pace and you can see that, but this year we're getting softness following the election week as well in terms of pace. So we adjusted for that.
Speaker Change: The bigger two pieces that we spoke on our prepared remarks is really the softer recovery that we...
Speaker Change: are seeing in Maui, so that's in our second half as well as what we did was we saw, you know, the
Speaker Change: Sourav Ghosh, James Risoleo, Jaime Marcus
Sourav Ghosh: Just a quick clarification, Sourav. So Q3 group pace is up high single-digit, so what's transient, like on the books now for Q3, what is transient and down?
Speaker Change: Transient, we look at a room-night perspective, and transient pay that really is, in terms of pickup, happens around a 30-day window. So we have de-risked, effectively, the decline that we saw in Q2 proportionally in Q3.
Speaker Change: Okay, thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from Michael Bellisario from Baird. Michael, your line is live.
Michael Bellisario: Thank you. Good morning, everyone.
Michael Bellisario: Jamona, to focus on Maui a little bit, can you maybe help us understand the guests that are coming to your properties? Are they different customers than a year ago pre-pandemic? Are they coming through different channels?
Speaker Change: Also, what are the brands doing to help stimulate demand? And then just lastly, can you give us some examples of the planned marketing initiatives that you mentioned? Thank you.
Operator: Okay, thank you. Yeah. Mike, there are new channels that we've pursued, different wholesalers, Costco, Costco Travel, as an example to bring customers back to Mali. I mean, what happened is, you know, the wirefarers were, [inaudible] Permanent or semi-permanent housing. We are very encouraged that that's happening, but what that meant for our hotel on the west side was that we went from well over 200 rooms that were being And we didn't see a corresponding pickup in visitation. And I think there are several reasons why that happened and why that is the current situation on the island today.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Mike, there are new channels that that we pursued. Different wholesalers, Costco, Costco travel as an example to to bring customers back to Mali. I mean what happened is you know the wire farrows were
Speaker Change: Just an incredible, tragic event.
Speaker Change: [inaudible]
Speaker Change: finding
Speaker Change: Permanent or semi-permanent housing, we...
Speaker Change: are very encouraged that that's happening. But what that meant for our hotel on the west side was that we went from
Speaker Change: well over 200 rooms that were being rented by the Red Cross in FEMA in the first quarter, the 13 rooms that were being rented in Q2.
Speaker Change: and we didn't see a corresponding pickup.
Speaker Change: and visitation. And I think there are several reasons why
Speaker Change: that occurred and why that is the current situation on the island today. We're coming up on the
Operator: We're coming up on the... First anniversary of the wildfires, which is a very important date for a lot of reasons in Hawaiian culture and otherwise. But going forward, mid to the latter part of September, the governor of Hawaii and the mayor of Maui are planning a marketing campaign in the Los Angeles area, basically rolling out the fact that Maui is now open for business.
Speaker Change: first anniversary of the wildfires, which is a very important date for a lot of reasons in Hawaiian culture and otherwise, but going forward
Speaker Change: mid to the latter part of September.
Speaker Change: the Governor of Hawaii and the Mayor of Maui.
Speaker Change: are planning on a marketing campaign in the Los Angeles area, basically rolling out the fact that Maui is now open for business.
Operator: 80% of the Maui economy is dependent on tourism, and the Hotel Association to put in place a coordinated marketing campaign to sell the island, and we're taking steps individually at our three assets, the Hyatt Regency, the Andaz, as well as the Fairmont Key Lonnie to start marketing those assets again mid-September and going forward. One of the other challenges that we're going to have to overcome is airlift into Maui. I believe that in the quarter, we were down about 16% over the same time frame in 2019, and that's down another 6% over where we were last year. So, it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation.
Speaker Change: 80% of the Maui economy is dependent on tourism.
Speaker Change: So, we are supportive and appreciative of
Speaker Change: what has to be done first before you can bring customers back to the island, and we think good progress is being made along those lines. Additionally, we are working with other hotel owners on Maui.
Speaker Change: and Hotel Association to
Speaker Change: put in place a coordinated marketing campaign.
Speaker Change: to sell the island. And we're taking steps individually at our three assets, the higher regency.
Speaker Change: the Andaz, as well as the Paramount Key Lonnie to start marketing those assets.
Speaker Change: Again, mid-September on, going forward. One of the other challenges that we're going to have to overcome is airlift into Maui. I believe that in the quarter we were down about 16% over the same time frame.
Speaker Change: 2019 and that's down another 6% over where we were last year.
Speaker Change: So, it's a bit of a chicken-and-an-egg situation.
Operator: You know, we certainly want the airlines, and we're going to be encouraging the airlines to put more capacity on their Maui routes, but we've got to bring the customers back as well. The really good news for our assets is that, Generally, you know, we completed a transformational renovation of the Hyatt Regency during COVID. We accelerated that renovation, and the property is fresh and ready to go. And more recently, we completed a transformational renovation at the Fairmont Kehlani, which is down in Wileya, as well as did a substantial renovation at the Andozz, Andozz, Wileya, as well.
Speaker Change: You know, we certainly want the airlines, and we're going to be encouraging the airlines to put more capacity into their Maui routes, but we've got to bring the customers back as well. The really good news for our assets,
Operator: Generally you know we had completed a transformational renovation of the Hyatt Regency during COVID. We accelerated that renovation and the property is fresh and ready to go.
Speaker Change: And more recently, we completed a transformational renovation at the Fairmont Keelani, which is down in Wailea.
Speaker Change: as well as did a substantial renovation at the Andoss.
Speaker Change: and Osweilea as well. So our properties are ready, open for business, and we're working with the local authorities and the other hotel owners to sell Maui beginning in mid to late September.
Shaun Kelley: So, our properties are ready, and open for business, and we're working with the local authorities and the other hotel owners to sell Maui beginning in mid to late September. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. The next question will be from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Shaun, your line is live. Hi, good morning everyone.
Shaun Kelley: Perfect, thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from Sean Kelly from Bank of America. Sean, your line is live.
Shaun Kelley: Jim, I want to go back to an earlier question, or maybe it's for Sourav actually, I want to go back to an earlier question on, you know, just the underwriting for Leisure Transient in the back half. Sourav, if I caught it correctly, I think you said basically the trend you saw in Leisure Transient for Q2, you're extrapolating that trend as sort of your baseline for 3Q. Did I catch that correctly?
Shaun Kelley: Hi, good morning everyone. Jim, I want to go back to an earlier question, or maybe it's for Sourav actually. I want to go back to an earlier question on just the underwriting for Leisure Transient in the back half. Sourav, if I caught it correctly, I think you said...
Shaun Kelley: Basically, the trends you saw in leisure transient for Q2, you're extrapolating that trend as sort of your baseline for a 3Q. Did I catch that correctly? And then, secondarily, just can you remind us of the weights of Q3 and Q4 as it relates to, you know, some of the seasonality here, you know, particularly how dependent, you know, is hosting the portfolio now on, you know, decent leisure in Q4. So, did you de-risk that? Did you underwrite that the same? And should there be anything we need to worry about as we get, you know, pretty late in the year, particularly around the holidays?
Shaun Kelley: And then secondarily, just can you remind us of the weights of Q3 and Q4 as it relates to, you know, some of the seasonality here, particularly how dependent the hosting portfolio now is on, you know, decent leisure in Q4. So did you de-risk that?
Operator: Did you underwrite that the same way? And should there be anything we need to worry about as we get, you know, pretty late in the year, particularly around the holidays? Thanks. Hey, thanks. Good morning.
Speaker Change: Hi, John. Yes, you did hear that correctly. We effectively took the trends that we saw for leisure training in the second quarter and applied that for the rest of the year.
Operator: [inaudible]
Speaker Change: The 300-paces point declined in the midpoint of guidance. What I would say is about 15% is as a result of Q2. The remainder is second half, and that's effectively evenly split between Q3 and Q4.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Dwayne Fenningworth from Evercore ISI. Dwayne, your line is live.
Operator: Just on cost programs, I assume your expense budgets at the asset level were based in part on your revenue outlook, and I just have a basic question. Are there cost takeouts that can happen, and do those cost reductions typically have a lag as revenue softens? Thank you. The next question is coming from Smedes Rose.
Operator: Good morning. Just on cost programs, I assume your expense budgets at the asset level were based in part on your revenue outlook. I just have a basic question. Are there cost takeouts that can happen?
Operator: and do those cost reductions typically have a lag as as revenue softens?
Speaker Change: It's always obviously an asset by asset in terms of how expenses are managed and obviously you have certain fixed costs.
Speaker Change: for the most part, there isn't a meaningful lack with that variable cost.
Speaker Change: happens and it will show up in sort of, you know, the lag is maybe a week or two, but by month end, the true up occurs. So by the time you're seeing the numbers, you know, whatever costs are being taken out or being managed relative to volume shows up pretty real time.
Speaker Change: Okay, thanks for the thoughts.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Smedes Rhodes from Citi. Smedes, your line is live.
Smedes Rose: Hi, thank you. I just wanted to go back to your guidance, and just taking out the acquired EBITDA for a moment, it looks like it's about, you know, close to a $50 million downward revision.
Speaker Change: And then you said for MAUI, you're expecting 180 basis point negative impact to your portfolio for the year. And I think that's a little steeper than the 130 basis points that you called out in the first quarter.
Smedes Rose: So, just given those two things, I'm just wondering, is the bulk of that decline of $47 million or so all related to MAUI on a relatively small decline in your REVPAR? Or maybe you can just kind of walk through the pieces, because it seems like a large downward revision.
Speaker Change: you know, given your expectations just, you know, just in the quarter ago.
Smedes Rose: Sure, Smedes, I think what will be easy is if I just walk through where our midpoint of previous guidance was at $1.670 billion and bridge that to our current guidance of $1.645 billion. So you take the $1.670 billion, and you take out $64 million of comp EBITDA excluding Nashville. Of that $64 million, about 50% of that $64 million is attributable to Maui and San Francisco. The remainder is primarily made up of four markets.
Operator: I would say it's D.C., Orlando, Phoenix, and L.A. And then you add $5 million for the improvement of our forecast for Nashville. You would add another $5 million for Alila Ventana, which opened up sooner than we had expected. And then you add $22 million for the one hotel, Central Park, and Turtle Bay, and then another $7 million for higher interest income because we obviously did the $600 million bond deal, had more cash reserves, and higher interest rates that allowed for that. Once you total that up, you get to $1,645,000.
Operator: Sure, I think what will be easy is if I just walk through where our midpoint of previous guidance was at a billion six seventy and bridge that to our current guidance of
Operator: Billion 645
Operator: So, you take the $1.6 billion, you take out $64 million of comp EBITDA excluding Nashville. Of that $64 million, about 50% of that $64 million is attributable to Maui and San Francisco.
Operator: The remainder is primarily made up of four markets, I would say it's DC, Orlando, Phoenix, and LA. And then you add $5 million for improvement of our forecast for Nashville.
Operator: You would add another $5 million for Alila Ventana, which opened up sooner than we had expected.
Operator: And then you add $22 million for the one hotel, Central Park, and Turtle Bay. And then another $7 million for higher interest income, because we obviously did the $600 million bond deal, had more cash reserves and higher interest rates that allowed for that.
Operator: But what I will say is that certainly for 2024, the $1,645,000 guidance, but it's important to remember what the run rate really is once you really adjust for all the puts and takes. So if you take, again, that $1,645,000 midpoint guidance that we have, and you remove all the business interruption that we got this year, which is equal to $40 million, you would add an additional $49 million for Total Bay and One Hotel Central Park, because obviously, we don't have the full year baked in for 2024. You would add another $13 million for Nashville.
Operator: Once you total that up, you get to the $1,645,000.
Operator: But what I will say is that it's important to remember that certainly for 2024, the Billion 645 guidance, but...
Operator: It's important to remember what the run rate really is once you really adjust for all the puts and takes. So if you take, again, that $1.645 billion midpoint guidance that we have, and you remove all the business interruption that we got this year, which is equal to $40 million,
Operator: You would add an additional $49 million for Total Bay and One Hotel Central Park because obviously we don't have the four-year baked-in.
Operator: And as we said in our prepared remarks, another $75 to $80 million for Maui and another $5 million for Ventana. So the true run rate on a stabilized basis, if you will, is $1,750,000. So hopefully, that answers your question and then some. Yeah, that helps.
Operator: in 2024.
Operator: You would add another $13 million for...
Operator: Nashville, and as we said in our prepared remarks, another $75 to $80 million for Maui and another $5 million for Ventana. So the true run rate on a stabilized basis, if you will, is $1.75 billion.
Operator: So hopefully that answers your question and then some.
Operator: And then Jim, you said at the beginning in your opening remarks that group revenues were up 8%, business transient was up 4%, and that leisure moderated. Can you share what the percentage increase or decrease was in leisure? Sorry, are you asking for the leisure demand increase in Q2? I think you were speaking at revenues, right? Thank you. The next question will come from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live. Sure, Robin.
Robin Farley: Yeah, that helps. And then just, Jim, you said at the beginning in your opening remarks that group revenues were up 8%, business transient was up four, and that leisure moderated. Can you share what the percentage increase or decrease was in leisure?
Speaker Change: Sorry, are you asking for the leisure demand increase in Q2?
Robin Farley: Well, at the beginning of the call, you said group revenue was up 8% in the quarter, business transient was up 4%, and I'm wondering what leisure was. It was characterized as moderating, but can you just share the percentage?
Operator: I think you were speaking of revenues, right?
Speaker Change: Yes, our overall, and remember we use our resort.
Speaker Change: As a proxy, our rates still held firm. Overall, resort revenue or leisure revenue was slightly down as volumes, obviously, was what Jim was referring to, moderated. But our rates held up, which are still 51% above 2019. I believe in Q1, that number was 52.
Robin: Okay, thank you.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will come from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.
Robin Farley: Great, thanks. I wanted to go back to your comments about how Total Rev Par grew more than Room Rev Par. Marriott had called out some ancillary spend being reduced and MGM called out kind of lower restaurant covers and pressure on entertainment, you know, ticket prices. And so I'm just wondering, is the increase that you are seeing in ancillary revs, is that...
Robin Farley: Do you think it's because of your group mix is increasing and so it's more bankrupt revenues? But the transient piece is softening on the ancillary side or just wondering why you know Your trend looks a little bit different than what some others have talked about. Thanks
Operator: I think our trend looks a little bit different because of the nature of our assets and the nature of our customers. You know, our customer falls into the affluent category given the nature of our properties, and they're still spending money. You know, unfortunately, we saw a big pickup in outbound travel in the quarter, but in terms of the spend at our resorts, both resorts and non-resorts, we saw food and beverage outlet revenue per occupied room up about 2% over last year and the same quarter last year and up about 1% over the first quarter as well.
Robin: Sure, Robin. I think our trend looks a little bit different because of the nature of our assets and the nature of our customer. You know, our customer falls into the affluent category given the nature of our properties.
Operator: and they're still spending money.
Operator: Unfortunately, we saw a big pickup in outbound travel in the quarter, but in terms of the spend at our...
Operator: at our resorts.
Operator: both resorts and non-resorts.
Operator: We saw Food and Beverage Outlet revenue per occupied room up about 2% over last year, and same quarter last year, and up about 1% over the first quarter as well. And encouragingly, as Sourav mentioned in his prepared remarks,
Operator: And encouragingly, as Sourav mentioned in his prepared remarks, we saw spa revenues and golf revenues up ex-Maui. Spa revenues are up about 11% in the quarter over the same quarter last year, and golf's up 5%. So we are seeing continued spending with a leisure transient rate that's 50% higher than where it was in the second quarter of. Additionally, you know, we're not seeing any holding back on the group side, as well. Banquet revenues are up over where they were at the same time last year. So I think it's a different mix, it's a different property type, and it's a different customer. ADRs were flat, and occupancy was down.
Sourav Ghosh: We sell spa revenues and golf revenues up X Maui Spas up about 11% in the quarter over same quarter last year and golfs up 5%
Operator: So, we are seeing continued spending with a leisure transient rate that's 50% higher than where it was in the second quarter of 2020.
Operator: [inaudible]
Operator: And additionally, you know, we're not seeing any holding back on the group side as well. Banquet revenues are up over where they were at the same time last year. So, I think it's a different mix. It's a different property type and a different customer.
Speaker Change: Great, that's helpful. Maybe just one follow-up clarification is, um, can you remind us where your group mix, where you think that will end up this year and where it was in 2019? Thanks.
Speaker Change: It's going to be pretty similar to where it was in 2019, about 35% group, roughly 61% transient and the balanced contract.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Stephen, your line is live.
Speaker Change: Hi, thank you. As a follow-up on the... I think it was Smeet's questions around...
Speaker Change: Resort, Rev Par, I think you said for the quarter.
Operator: Did that change over the course of the quarter? Because it seems like part of the evolution we're hearing from folks is really around June and July. And I realize it's a little bit more myopic, but I'm just trying to think about, you know, the dynamic of what's happening to price within leisure or resorts, however you want to define that as we look into the back.
Operator: ADRs were flat and occupancy down. Did that change over the course of the quarter? Because it seems like part of the evolution we're hearing from folks is really around June and July, and I realize it's a little bit more myopic, but I'm just trying to think about the dynamic of what's happening to price within
Operator: leisure or resort, however you want to define that as we look into the back half.
Speaker Change: Not necessarily, because both for Memorial Day and July 4th, we came in actually better than expectations.
Speaker Change: So, it really sort of scattered across the quarter on certain weekends, but there wasn't any discerning trend necessarily, you know, while we went through the quarter as it relates to sort of pricing or, for that matter of fact, even demand.
Speaker Change: because the holidays actually did better than what we thought they would do.
Operator: Okay, that's helpful. And one other follow-up on that, I guess, would be that, in that comment that you said that you're assuming the trend line kind of holds in the back half, just to be clear, that would be that dynamic of effectively flat ADR, slightly down occupancy in the back half for your resorts overall. All that's correct.
Operator: Okay, that's helpful. And one other follow-up on that I guess would be that in that comment that you said that you're assuming the trend line kind of holds in the back half, just to be clear that would be that that dynamic of effectively flat ADR, slightly down occupancy in the back half for your resorts overall?
Operator: And effectively, the trend of, you know, particularly from the leisure standpoint, the international outbound that Jim mentioned, we had obviously assumed earlier that it would be lower in Q2 of this year versus Q2 of last year. The opposite held true, and we are assuming for the rest of the year that that will continue. Got it. That's it for me.
Speaker Change: All that's correct.
Operator: And effectively the trend of, you know, particularly from the leisure standpoint, the international outbound that Jim mentioned, we had obviously assumed earlier that we would
Operator: It will be actually lower in Q2 of this year versus Q2 of last year. The opposite held true and we are assuming for the rest of the year that that will continue.
Operator: Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question will be from Bill Crow from Raymond James. Bill, your line is live. Great, thanks. Jim, in a...
Speaker Change: Got it. That's it for me. Thank you so much.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from Bill Crowe from Raymond James. Bill, your line is live.
Bill Crow: In a weakening economic backdrop, and when we see rising job cuts and rising unemployment, what's the first indicator in the lodging space? Is it weaker leisure demand? Is it weaker, or is it group attrition, lower F&B?
Bill Crow: Great, thanks. Jim, in a...
Speaker Change: In a weakening economic backdrop, and when we see rising job cuts and rising unemployment, what's the first step?
Bill Crow: What's the first indicator in the lodging space? Is it weaker leisure demand, is it weaker group attrition, lower F&B? What should we be looking out for if the economy starts to slow at a fastening pace?
Operator: What should we be looking out for if the economy starts to slow at a fastening pace? The leisure consumer led the recovery coming out of COVID. It was revenge travel.
Speaker Change: I would say
Operator: Week in Leisure at the lower end of the chain scale bill.
Speaker Change: I do think there is a bifurcation.
Operator: today between the high-end consumer
Speaker Change: who is still strong, moderating somewhat candidly, and the low-end consumer. And I think you're seeing that in the earnings reports that are being printed this quarter. There's a differentiation. You know, from our perspective...
Speaker Change: how our consumer is is behaving. We think that, you know, what's happened in this quarter
Operator: is that the high-end leisure traveler, you know, went abroad. They went to Europe and the Caribbean and Japan. And that it's a moment in time, much like when
Operator: The leisure consumer led the recovery coming out of COVID. It was revenge travel and...
Operator: And, you know, I think we saw a bit of revenge travel to Europe last year when it was the first year that Europe was opened up without any restrictions. And, you know, we're seeing that this year. And it's frankly, it surprised us a bit because I know we've talked about this before. I mean, if we look at, and we spent some time digging into this, if you look at all US outbound trips at roughly 120% of 2019 levels, that equates to 6 million additional outbound trips. And that's a big number.
Operator: I think we saw a bit of revenge travel to Europe last year, when that was the first year that Europe was opened up without any restrictions, and we're seeing that this year. And it's frankly surprised us a bit, because I know we've talked about this before.
Operator: I mean, if we look at, and we spent some time digging into this, if you look at all U.S. outbound at roughly 120% of 2019 levels, that equates to 6 million additional outbound trips.
Operator: But people are spending money, and we're not seeing the corresponding increase in international inbound tourism. So, you know, TSA checkpoints give us confidence that travel is still occurring. We hit a record in July of, I think, three million throughputs in one week in particular. So we believe that this is a moment in time, and the pendulum will swing back, and we will be well positioned to perform going forward. Great If I could ask Sourav a follow-up or second question,
Operator: And that is a big number, but people, they're spending money and we're not seeing the corresponding increase of international inbounds. So, you know, TSA checkpoints give us confidence that
Operator: that travel is still occurring. You know, we hit a record in July of I think 3 million throughputs in one week in particular.
Operator: So we believe that this is a moment in time and the pendulum will swing back and we will be well positioned to perform going forward.
Sourav Ghosh: Sourav, we've got a lot of labor negotiations coming up toward the end of this year, and I'm not gonna ask you about those, but how do you think about wage and benefit increases as you look into 2025 across the portfolio? Yeah, as we look into next year, it's a little bit early to tell, obviously. I mean, the managers are working through the budgets right now, and we obviously don't have those submitted until much later in this later part of the year.
Speaker Change: Great. If I could ask Sourav a follow-up or second question. Sourav,
Sourav Ghosh: We've got a lot of labor negotiations coming up toward the end of this year, and I'm not going to ask you about those but how do you think about wage and benefit increases as you look into 2025 across the portfolio?
Sourav Ghosh: Yeah, as we look into next year, it's a little bit early to tell, obviously. I mean, the managers are working through the budgets right now, and we obviously don't have...
Sourav Ghosh: However, just given that inflation has come under control to some extent, we would expect it to be lower next year. How much lower? We will probably have a better idea once we get further down the year. I would say probably October or November, depending on what that's looking like. But I would think it's more in the 3% to 4% range, or even better than that, depending on what inflation trends look like.
Sourav Ghosh: They'll submit it until much later this later part of the year. However, just given that inflation has
Sourav Ghosh: you know, come under control. To some extent, we would expect...
Speaker Change: Sourav Ghosh, James Risoleo, Jaime Marcus
Sourav Ghosh: but would think it's more in the 3-4% range or even better than that depending on what inflation trends look like.
Operator: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. That's all the time we have for questions today.
James Risoleo: I would now like to hand the call back to Jim Risoleo for closing remarks. Thank you again for joining us today. We always appreciate the opportunity to discuss our quarterly results with you. And we look forward to seeing many of you at conferences in the coming months. Enjoy the rest of your summer.
Speaker Change: Okay, thank you
Speaker Change: Thank you. That's all the time we have for questions today. I would now like to hand the call back to Jim Risoleo for closing remarks.
James Risoleo: Thank you again for joining us today. We always appreciate the opportunity to discuss our quarterly results with you. And we look forward to seeing many of you at conferences in the coming months. Enjoy the rest of your summer.
Speaker Change: Thank you. This does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.