Q2 2024 CTO Realty Growth Inc Earnings Call
Good day, and thank you for standing by.
Operator: 2nd Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, John Albright, President and CEO. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Welcome to the CTO Realty Growth 2nd Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are on a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press Star 1-1 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised.
To withdraw your question, please press star 1 1 again Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today John Albright, President and CEO . Please go ahead
John Albright: Good morning, everyone. And thank you for joining us today for the CTO Realty Growth second quarter 2024 operating results conference call. I'm pleased to have Phil Mays, our new Chief Financial Officer, joining me this morning. Before we begin, I'll turn it over to Phil to provide the customary disclosures regarding today's call.
John Albright: Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for the CTO Realty Growth Second Quarter 2024 Operating Results Conference Call.
Phil Mays: I am pleased to have Phil Mays, our new Chief Financial Officer, joining me this morning. Before we begin, I'll turn it over to Phil to provide the customary disclosures regarding today's call. Phil?
Phil Mays: Thanks, John. I would like to remind everyone that many of our comments today are considered forward-looking statements under federal securities law. The company's actual future results may differ significantly from the matters discussed in these forward-looking statements, and we undertake no duty to update these statements. Factors and risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are disclosed from time to time in greater detail in the company's Form 10-K, Form 10-Q, and other SEC filings. You can find our SEC reports, earnings release, supplemental, and most recent investor presentation on our website at ctorealty.com.
Phil Mays: Thanks, John . I would like to remind everyone that many of our comments today are considered forward-looking statements under federal securities law. The company's actual future results may differ significantly from the matters discussed in these forward-looking statements, and we undertake no duty to update these statements.
Speaker Change: Factors and risk that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are disclosed from time to time in greater detail in the company's Form 10-K , Form 10-Q , and other SEC problems.
Phil Mays: You can find our SEC reports, earnings release, supplemental, and most recent investor presentation on our website at ctoreality.com. With that, I will turn the call back over to John .
Phil Mays: With that, I will turn the call back over to John.
John Albright: Thanks, Phil. We had another strong quarter in all areas of our business. This morning, I will provide a brief overview of our second quarter results and highlight the strong leasing environment and investment opportunities we are seeing. As of quarter end, over 70% of our rents come from Georgia, Texas, and Florida, and we continue to see the benefits of owning a high-quality portfolio shopping centers located in strong growth markets in the southeast and southwest.
John Albright: Thanks, Bill. We had another strong quarter in all areas of our business. This morning, I will provide a brief overview of our second quarter results and highlight the strong leasing environment and investment opportunities we are seeing.
John Albright: As of quarter end, over 70% of our rents come from Georgia, Texas, and Florida, and we continue to see the benefits of owning a high-quality portfolio of shopping centers located in strong growth markets in the southeast and southwest.
John Albright: Starting with our operating business, we had another successful quarter of leasing activity. In the second quarter, we signed 79,000 square feet of new leases, renewals, and extensions at an average rent of $25.87 per square foot, bringing our leasing activity to 183,000 square feet at an average rent of $26.58 per square foot for the first half of 2024. This leasing activity was spread across our portfolio, but heaviest at Ashford Lane in Atlanta and West Broad Village in Richmond. Our comparable lease spreads were 9% in the second quarter and 41% in the first half of 2024.
John Albright: Starting with our operating business, we had another successful quarter of leasing activity.
John Albright: In the second quarter, we signed 79,000 square feet of new leases, renewals, and extensions.
John Albright: at an average rent of $25.87 per square foot, bringing our leasing activity to 183,000 square feet at an average rent of $26.58 per square foot for the first half of 2024.
John Albright: This leasing activity was spread across our portfolio, but heaviest at Ashford Lane in Atlanta and West Broad Village in Richmond.
John Albright: Our comparable lease spreads were 9% in the second quarter and 41% in the first half of 2024.
John Albright: As discussed on our last call, the 41% growth in the first half includes the significant impact of replacing real cinemas at Beaver Creek Crossing in Raleigh with a fitness operator scheduled to open in mid-2025. We ended the quarter with physical occupancy of 92.6%, an increase of 2.3% from year-end 2023, and lease occupancy of 94.6%. The 200 basis points spread between physical and lease occupancy represents almost $5 million of future cash rents or nearly 6% of our current in-place cash base rent.
John Albright: As discussed on our last call, the 41% growth in the first half includes the significant impact of replacing Regal Cinemas at Beaver Creek Crossing in Raleigh with a fitness operator scheduled to open in mid-2025.
John Albright: We ended the quarter with physical occupancy of 92.6%, an increase of 2.3% from year-end 2023, and leased occupancy of 94.6%.
John Albright: The 200 basis points spread between physical and leased occupancy represents almost $5 million of future cash rents in nearly 6% of our current in-place cash base rents.
John Albright: We will receive some earnings benefit from these leases in the second half of 2024, but most of the benefit will ramp up throughout 2025 as the new tenants take possession. We're also in negotiations to lease approximately 24,000 square feet of the former Earth Bear store at Collection and Foresight in Atlanta and 19,000 square feet of the space formerly leased by WeWork at the Shops at Legacy in Plano, Texas. Turning to investments, after an active first quarter, which included acquiring the marketplace at Seminole Town Center and the Sanford Submarket of Orlando, we had a relatively quiet second quarter, purchasing 1.4 acres of vacant land for $1.5 million for future development within our West Broad Village property in Richmond.
John Albright: We will receive some earnings benefit from these leases in the second half of 2024, but most of the benefit will ramp up throughout 2025 as the new tenants take possession.
John Albright: We're also in negotiations to lease approximately 24,000 square feet of the former Earth Bear store at Collection and Foresight Atlanta in 19,000 square feet of the space formerly leased by WeWork at the Shops at Legacy in Plano, Texas.
John Albright: Turning to investments, after an active first quarter, which included acquiring the marketplace at Seminole Town Center and Sanford Submarket of Orlando, we had a relatively quiet second quarter, purchasing 1.4 acres of vacant land for $1.5 million for the future development within our West Broad Village property in Richmond.
John Albright: More importantly, we are optimistic that we will be successful with some acquisitions in our target markets, which we would expect to close in the third quarter. Accordingly, we have increased our outlook for investments for the full year of 2024 to a range of $200 million to $250 million. On the dispositions front, although no transactions were completed during the quarter, we have a non-refundable $18 million sales contract for Jordan Landing, our property in Utah, with closing scheduled in August.
John Albright: More importantly, we are optimistic that we will be successful with some acquisitions in our target markets, which we would expect to close in the third quarter. Accordingly, we have increased our outlook for investments for the full year of 2024 to a range of $200 million to $250 million.
John Albright: On the dispositions front, although no transactions were completed during the quarter, we have a non-refundable $18 million sales contract for Jordan Landing, our property in Utah, with closing scheduled in August .
John Albright: We will continue to prioritize selling our few small remaining non-core assets for redeployment into attractive investment opportunities in larger format open-air retail centers.
John Albright: We will continue to prioritize selling our few small remaining non-core assets for redeployment into attractive investment opportunities in larger format open-air retail centers. Given the strong results our portfolio has delivered for the first half of 2024, along with a favorable transaction market we are seeing, we have increased the midpoint of our 2024 core FFO guidance by 12% to a range of $1.81 to $1.86. Phil will discuss our earnings and guidance in more detail, and I will now have the call over to him. Thanks, Jim.
John Albright: Given the strong results our portfolio has delivered for the first half of 2024, along with a favorable transaction market we are seeing, we have increased the midpoint of our 2024 core FFO guidance by 12%,
John Albright: to a range of $1.81 to $1.86.
John Albright: Phil will discuss our earnings and guidance in more detail, and I will now have to call over to him.
Phil Mays: Thanks, John. First, it is a privilege for me to join the team here at CTO Realty. The board and management have done a remarkable job transforming the company's property portfolio. The positive results from this transformed portfolio and strong management team are evident throughout this quarter's results, which we will discuss on today's call. Currently, the company's property portfolio consists of 20 properties comprising 3.9 million square feet located in 8 states and 11 markets. More specifically, substantially, all of these properties are located in business-friendly markets in the southeast and southwest, with demographics supportive of outside long-term growth.
Phil Mays: Thanks, John . First, it is a privilege for me to join the team here at CTO Realty.
Speaker Change: The Board of Management have done a remarkable job transforming the company's property portfolio. The positive results from this transformed portfolio and strong management team are evident throughout this quarter's results to discuss on today's call.
Speaker Change: Currently, the company's property portfolio consists of 20 properties comprising 3.9 million square feet located in 8 states and 11 markets.
Speaker Change: More specifically, substantially, all of these properties are located in business-friendly markets in the southeast and southwest with demographics supportive of outsized long-term growth. Accordingly, they benefit from strong tenant demand, as evidenced in occupancy, leasing spread, and same-property NOI growth.
Phil Mays: Accordingly, they benefit from strong tenant demand, as evidenced by occupancy, the leasing spread, and same-property NOI growth. As John previously mentioned, at quarter end, physical occupancy was 92.6 percent, and lease occupancy was 94.6 percent, with the spread between them representing almost $5 million of annualized cash-based rent that will primarily contribute to NOI and earnings growth in 2025. Same property NOI for the second quarter increased by 2% compared to the same period in the prior year. For the first six months of 2024,
Speaker Change: As John previously mentioned, at quarter end, physical occupancy was 92.6% and lease occupancy was 94.6%, with the spread between them representing almost $5 million of annualized cash-based rent that will primarily contribute to NOI and earnings growth in 2025.
John Albright: Same property NOI for the second quarter increased by 2% compared to the same period in the prior year.
Phil Mays: Same property NOI growth was 4% compared to the first six months of 2023. The growth for the first six months of 2024 was driven by lease up, and additionally, a higher percentage rent was received in the first quarter of 2024 from certain tenants that pay percentage rent on an annual basis after year end. Moving to earnings, Core FFO was $0.45 per share for the quarter, representing 5% growth when compared to the same period in the prior year.
John Albright: for the first six months of 2024. Same property NOI growth was 4% compared to the first six months of 2023.
John Albright: The growth for the first six months of 2024 was driven by lease-up and additionally benefits from higher percentage rent received in the first quarter of 2024 from certain tenants that pay percentage rent on an annual basis after year-end.
John Albright: Moving to earnings, Core FFO was $0.45 per share for the quarter, representing 5% growth when compared to the same period in the prior year, and AFFO was $0.48 per share for the quarter, consistent with the same period in the prior year.
Phil Mays: And AFFO was $0.48 per share for the quarter, consistent with the same period in the prior year. For the first six months of 2024, Core FFO was $0.93 per share, and AFFO was $1 per share, representing growth of 13% and 10%, respectively, compared to the first six months of 2023. Core FFO growth for both the quarter and the first six months of 2024 outpaced AFFO growth due to a $450,000 non-cash write-off of straight-line rents receivable in the second quarter of last year associated with our former food hall tenant at Ashford Lane.
John Albright: For the first six months of 2024, Core FFO was $0.93 per share and AFFO was $1 per share, representing growth at 13% and 10% respectively, compared to the first six months of 2023.
John Albright: Core FFO growth for both the quarter and first six months of 2024 outpaced AFFO growth due to a $450,000 non-cash write-off of straight-line rents receivable in the second quarter of last year associated with our former food hall tenant at Ashford Lane.
Phil Mays: As disclosed in our press release and other filings, AFFO excludes non-cash items such as straight-line rents that can cause short-term fluctuations in earnings, with no impact on operating cash flows. For that reason, we present AFFO in addition to FFO. As we announced in May, we distributed a second quarter regular cash dividend of 38 cents per share, resulting in a Q2 2024 AFFO payout ratio of 79% and then an attractive current annualized yield of approximately 8%. Consistent with past practice, towards the end of August, we will announce our quarterly dividend amount for the third quarter.
John Albright: As disclosed in our press release and other filings, our AFFO excludes non-cash items such as straight-line rents that can cause short-term fluctuations in earnings, with no impact on operating cash flows, and for that reason, we present AFFO in addition to FFO.
Speaker Change: As we announced in May, we distributed a second quarter regular cash dividend of $0.38 per share, resulting in a Q2 2024 AFFO payout ratio of 79%, and an attractive current annualized yield of approximately 8%.
Speaker Change: Consistent with past practice, towards the end of August , we will announce our quarterly dividend amount for the third quarter.
Operator: Now turning to our balance sheet, we ended the quarter with net debt to total enterprise value of 48%, net debt to EBITDA of 7.5 times, $155 million of liquidity, and a staggered debt maturity schedule. As previously announced, early in the second quarter, we issued 1.7 million shares of our Series A preferred stock for net proceeds of $33.1 million. Additionally, during the quarter, we issued almost 250,000 common shares under our ATM program for a total net proceeds of $4.3 million.
Speaker Change: Now turning to our balance sheet, we ended the quarter with net debt to total enterprise value of 48%, net debt to EBITDA of 7.5 times, $155 million of liquidity, and a staggered debt maturity schedule.
Speaker Change: As previously announced, early in the second quarter, we issued 1.7 million shares of our Series A Preferred Stock.
Speaker Change: for net proceeds of $33.1 million. Additionally, during the quarter, we issued almost 250,000 common shares under our ATM program for total net proceeds of $4.3 million.
Operator: These combined proceeds of approximately $38 million, along with $15.2 million of proceeds received in connection with the repayment of one of our loan investments, were used to pay down a revolving credit facility and reduce its balance to $150 million outstanding at quarter end. Furthermore, as disclosed in our Earnings Release and Supplemental Reporting Package, we have previously entered into SOFR rate swaps for notional amounts that cover all of our term loans and $150 million of our revolving credit facility, thereby leaving no floating rate interest exposure at quarter end.
Speaker Change: These combined proceeds of approximately $38 million, along with $15.2 million of proceeds received in connection with repayment of one of our loan investments, were used to pay down a revolving credit facility and reduce its balance to $150 million outstanding at quarter end.
Speaker Change: Further, as disclosed in our Earnings Release and Supplemental Reporting Package, we have previously entered into SOFR rate swaps for notional amounts that cover all of our term loans and $150 million of our revolving credit facility, thereby leaving no floating rate interest exposure at quarter end.
Operator: Lastly, a guidance update. With our strong first half results and current outlook, we are increasing our full year 2024 core FFO guidance to a range of $1.81 to $1.86 per share and AFFO guidance to a range of $1.95 to $2.00, at the midpoints. This represents a 12% increase in core FFO guidance and an 11% increase in AFFO guidance. However, most of the assumptions underlying our 2024 guidance remain unchanged, except for investments. As John discussed, we are optimistic about acquisitions in the second half of the year.
Speaker Change: Lastly, a guidance update. With our strong first half results and current outlook, we are increasing our full year 2024 core FFO guidance to a range of $1.81 to $1.86 per share and AFFO guidance to a range of $1.95 to $2 per share.
Speaker Change: At the midpoints, this represents a 12% increase to core FFO guidance and an 11% increase to AFFO guidance.
Speaker Change: Most of the assumptions underlying our 2024 guidance remain unchanged, except for investments. As John discussed, we are optimistic about acquisitions in the second half of the year.
Operator: Accordingly, we have increased our anticipated full year 2024 investments to a range of $200 million to $250 million and an initial cash yield range of 8.5% to 9%. As a reminder, our investment assumptions are inclusive of both properties and loans. Currently, we are not increasing our disposition range of $50 million to $75 million. However, should we land on the high end of our investment range, it is possible that we could exceed our disposition range as we would look to opportunistically dispose of one or more of our few remaining non-core assets. With that, I will now turn the call back to the operator to open the line for questions.
John Albright: Accordingly, we have increased our anticipated full year 2024 investments to a range of $200 million to $250 million, and an initial cash yield range of 8.5% to 9%.
John Albright: As a reminder, our investment assumptions are inclusive of both properties and loans.
Speaker Change: Currently, we are not increasing our disposition range of $50 million to $75 million. However, should we land on the high end of our investment range, it is possible that we could exceed our disposition range as we would look to opportunistically dispose of one or more of our few remaining non-core assets.
Speaker Change: With that, I will now turn the call back to the operator to open the line for questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 1-1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.
Operator: Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of RJ Milligan with Raymond James. Your line is now open.
Speaker Change: To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again.
Speaker Change: Our first question comes from the line of RJ Milligan with Raymond James. Your line is now open.
John Albright: Good morning, guys, and welcome, Phil. John, I was wondering if you could just talk about the environment today in terms of what gives you the confidence to increase the guidance and maybe a comment as to what we should expect in terms of the mix between loans and regular investment. Sure.
RJ Milligan: Good morning guys and welcome Phil. John , I was wondering if you could just talk about the environment today in terms of what gives you the confidence to increase.
RJ Milligan: the guidance and maybe a comment as to what we should expect in terms of the mix between loans and regular way investments.
John Albright: Sure, thanks RJ. Yeah, so I probably mentioned this on the last call, you know, we're seeing a fair amount of opportunities. We've been actively pursuing a lot of what we've been seeing are quality properties in good locations. We missed on one earlier this year that was fairly sizable based on due diligence, but we're able to, we have one right now in our line of sites that gives us confidence in this upward guidance of acquisitions, and then as far as your question as far as the mix you know primarily it's it's you know core real estate you know power center shopping centers that we're looking to buy I would say that out of the mix it's 80 percent of its core acquisitions and then 20 percent more structured investments.
John Albright: Sure, thanks RJ. Yeah, so I probably mentioned this on the last call, you know, we're seeing
John Albright: a fair amount of opportunities. We've been actively pursuing a lot of what we've been seeing are quality properties and good locations.
John Albright: We missed on one earlier this year that was fairly sizable based on due diligence.
John Albright: but we have one right now in our line of sites that gives us confidence in this upward guidance of acquisitions.
Speaker Change: and then as far as your question as far as the mix
Speaker Change: you know primarily it's
Speaker Change: Core real estate power centers, shopping centers that we're looking to buy, I would say that out of the mix, it's 80% of its core acquisitions and then 20% more structured investments.
John Albright: That's helpful. In terms of, you know, obviously, a decent increase in guidance. And so I think that that might imply that you expect to close some of these transactions sooner rather than later. I'm just curious, number one, from a modeling perspective, if you could give us an idea of timing, expectations, and then funding.
Speaker Change: That's helpful. In terms of, you know, obviously a decent increase in guidance and so I think that that might imply that you expect to close some of these transactions sooner rather than later. I'm just curious, number one, from a modeling perspective, if you could give us an idea on timing, expectations, and then funding sources.
John Albright: Yeah, so we hope on a fairly sizable transaction for us that we have something that we basically are able to close on and call it 60 days. And we have the capacity of our line of credit facilities to do the acquisition. And so, and as you know, we're obviously pretty good about, you know, recycling assets. So we, in addition to one property, we have, you know, more or less going into the closing process or under contract, we have other assets that we're looking to sell as well.
John Albright: Yeah, so
Speaker Change: Yeah, so we had hoped on, you know, a fairly sizable transaction for us that we'd have something that we'd basically be able to close on and call it 60 days.
Speaker Change: and we have the capacity of our our line credit facilities to to do the acquisition and so and as you know you know we you know obviously are been pretty good about you know recycling assets so we
Speaker Change: In addition to one property we have, you know, more or less going into the closing process or under contract, we have other assets that we're looking to sell as well.
Operator: Okay, that's it for me. Thanks, guys.
Operator: Our next question comes from the line of Gaurav Mehta with Alliance Global Partners. Your line is now open.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's it for me. Thanks guys. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Gaurav Mehta with Alliance Global Partners. Your line is now open.
Operator: Thank you. Good morning.
Gaurav Mehta: Yeah, thank you. Good morning.
Gaurav Mehta: Wanted to follow up on the investment guidance questions. Wanted to get some more color on the on the campus as well. It seems like
Gaurav Mehta: You raised the cap rate guidance as well to 8.52 times from our lower cap rate expectation of the previous guidance, and I was wondering if that's specific to the acquisitions that you're looking at, or is that what you're seeing in the market?
Speaker Change: A combination of what we're pursuing and what we've been making some acquisition offers on and feel like where we know we can.
Speaker Change: probably acquire assets and the combination of the structured investments.
Speaker Change: So it's a blend with the two, but definitely comprised of what we see that we think is transactable as far as our acquisitions.
Speaker Change: and a follow-up on the early repayment of seller financing loan any any color on what drove that early refinancing early repayment I'm sorry
Speaker Change: Sorry, can you ask that again? Yeah, I think in the quarter you had $15.2 million of...
Speaker Change: Early Repayment of a Seller Financing Loan, just wanted to get the word out. Oh yeah, so that was on the Ford-Sable office building we sold in Tampa.
Speaker Change: I think we announced that in the second quarter, I believe. Sorry, in the last earnings call. And so that was one where we allowed the seller financing to close earlier for a little bit of a discount.
Speaker Change: Okay, thank you. That's all I had. Sure.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rob Stephenson with Janey Montgomery. Your line is now open.
Rob Stephenson: Good morning guys. John , beyond the 24,000 square feet in Atlanta and the 19,000 in Plano that you talked about in your comments, where are the other larger pockets of current or future vacancy that you're working on today where there isn't a signed tenant yet?
Speaker Change: Yes, I mean those are the some of the big ones for sure, but the balance of the WeWork space, the amount of
Speaker Change: As mentioned on the 20,000 square foot roughly of the WeWork space, that's basically a third of it.
Speaker Change: So we still have some wood to chop there on the balance of the space.
Speaker Change: The good news is we're seeing increased activity in that market, which is great.
Speaker Change: And so, you know, love to see that. And then as far as where the rest of the space is, you know, we have roughly 210,000 square feet of vacancy throughout the portfolio.
Speaker Change: and everything else is fairly scattered, so smaller spaces. Those are the two big ones would be Earth Fare, which looks like we have the lease signed up, and then the WeWork space for sure, and that's what we've been working on pretty hard on getting that address.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's helpful. And then, back to the acquisition sort of track, how aggressively are you guys pursuing mixed-use assets these days? Is the focus really retail only and you'll do a mixed-use asset if it's a great deal and it falls into your lap, or are you still aggressively pursuing mixed-use assets going forward?
Speaker Change: Yeah, right now there's no mixed-use assets in the pipeline. It's primarily our core retail open-air centers.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's helpful. And then Phil, main contributors to the increased guidance beyond just some of the better leasing, anything, any big slugs that drove up the outlook for the rest of the year?
Phil Mays: Yeah, I think it falls into four buckets, the first one being the investment activity of loans and properties.
Phil Mays: and the second, as John touched on, timing of them also, right? I think we're seeing acquisitions lead dispositions, so that also drives it. And then we've got, you know, the first half of the year behind us with very, very strong results.
Speaker Change: And then maybe, you know, initially a little conservatism and guidance early in the year, especially with the, you know, out of CFO just being kind of prudent early in the year.
Speaker Change: because they can evolve in those four buckets. You can kind of spread the increased guidance across them.
Speaker Change: All right, that's helpful. Thanks, guys, and have a great weekend. Thanks. You, too.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Erdner with Jones Trading. Your line is now open.
John Albright: I wanted to follow up on the investment guidance questions. I wanted to get some more color on the cap rates as well. It seems like you raised the cap rate guidance as well to 8.5 from a lower cap rate expectation than the previous guidance, and I was wondering if that's specific to the acquisitions that you're looking at, or is that what you're seeing in the market?
Matthew Erdner: Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for taking the question. I'd like to follow up on the investment opportunities and kind of the higher yield, you know, so in some of these open air shopping centers, are you guys kind of targeting ones with maybe some lower occupancy or or some?
John Albright: A combination of what we're pursuing and what we've been making some acquisition offers on and feel like where we know we can probably acquire assets and a combination of the structured investments. So, it's a blend of the two, but definitely comprised of what we see that we think is transactable as far as our acquisitions are concerned.
Matthew Erdner: I guess facilities that need some capital improvement to kind of get that increased cap rate.
Speaker Change: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, we certainly are seeing some properties that need some capital, not, you know, an incredible amount of capital, but definitely a fair amount of upfront capital to refresh the properties.
Matthew Erdner: We're not seeing on the acquisition side, more or less, a lot of vacancy. There's vacancy, but it's not a big component of it.
John Albright: and a follow-up on the early repayment of a seller financing loan. Any color on what drove that early refinancing and early repayment? I'm sorry.
Speaker Change: Gotcha, that's helpful. And then turning to the loans, should we expect any other early payoffs or is this kind of a one-time thing?
John Albright: Sorry, can you ask that again one more time?
Speaker Change: Yeah, nothing in front of us right now that's going to be paying off anytime soon.
Speaker Change: Gotcha. Thank you guys. That's all for me. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of John Masako with B Raleigh Securities. Your line is now open.
John Masako: Good morning.
John Masako: It sounds like a lot of the investment pipeline is pretty far along at this point and therefore kind of pricing on that was set.
Speaker Change: A while ago, but maybe if you look beyond what's kind of close in the pipeline today, or even some of the deals are a little more up in the air that you have in the pipeline today. Are you seeing any pressure on cap rates given. Some of the moves and interest rates we've seen over the last couple of weeks.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean, I would say that the pressure on cap rates are kind of in the larger type of assets, in major MSAs, you know, I would say more of the...
Speaker Change: almost the $200 million sort of assets seem to get more of the pricing pressure. The assets that were you know basically you know pursuing
Speaker Change: really we're trying to avoid the the real core institutional capital that wouldn't be chasing these and so trying to you know buy around the edges so we're not seeing as much
Speaker Change: cap rate compression there yet, we expect it, so that's kind of why we're trying to get busy on on the acquisition front.
Speaker Change: And then it probably extends to most of the disposition side of things, but are you seeing any loosening of
Speaker Change: And if the banking market getting a little more active, if you will, in terms of financing transactions.
Speaker Change: Yeah, it seems like the CMBS market has been very helpful for folks that are selling assets or for the acquirers that look for secured debt.
Speaker Change: That's been.
Speaker Change: really helping the transaction market, for sure.
Speaker Change: You know, we don't like to see that because it brings in more competition from folks that are using leverage on the asset basis, but there is better leverage out there. And so that's been helping the transaction market for sure.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then in terms of kind of financing, you know, the investment pipeline, particularly on the debt side, what are you seeing in terms of your own cost of debt capital?
Speaker Change: You know, we're largely an unsecured borrower, so just in terms of maybe, you know, terming out the line or something if it gets full or just doing another term loan.
Speaker Change: You know, five-year swaps have come in, they're under four now, and our spread's about 135 bips, so we could probably do an all-in, fixed, five-year term loan, right in the neighborhood of 5% right now.
Speaker Change: OK.
Speaker Change: Would there be any interest in pursuing mortgages, depending on what the investment looks like? Or is it pretty much all going to be in the term loan market if you do permanent assets? We don't like to do secured debt on the assets. It keeps the flexibility.
Speaker Change: because if folks, you know, if we see something we want to sell it just makes it a lot better transaction for us.
John Albright: I think in the quarter you had $15.2 million of early repayment of a seller financing loan. Oh yeah, so that was on the Ford Sable office building we sold in Tampa. I think we announced that in the second quarter, I believe, in the last earnings call. And so that was one where we allowed the seller financing to close earlier for a little bit of a discount. Okay, thank you. That's all I had.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's it for me. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Gorman with VTIG. Your line is now open.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Rob Stevenson with Janie Montgomery. Your line is now open.
Michael Gorman: Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Just a quick question following up on the sign, but not open.
Michael Gorman: Pipeline, John , that you mentioned about the incremental almost $5 million kind of coming online over the course of 2025. You know, how much of that, you know, how much of that will be a net add versus how much should we think about? There's kind of just the durable spread between leased and occupied space that'll always be there. So if we think about that 260 basis or 250 basis point gap like
John Albright: Good morning, guys. John, beyond the 24,000 square feet in Atlanta and the 19,000 in Plano that you talked about in your comments, where are the other larger pockets of current or future vacancy that you're working on today where there isn't a signed tenant yet?
John Albright: Yeah, so I mean, those are some of the big ones, for sure. But the balance of the WeWork space, the amount of, as mentioned in the 20,000 square foot roughly of the WeWork space, that's basically a third of it. So we still have some wood to chop there on the balance of the space. The good news is we're seeing increased activity in that market, which is great.
John Albright: And so, you know, I love to see that. And then, as far as where the rest of the space is, you know, we have roughly 210,000 square feet of vacancy throughout the portfolio, and everything else is fairly scattered. So smaller spaces, there's not those, those are the two big ones would be our fair, which looks like we have the lease signed up, and then the WeWork space for sure. And that's what we've been working on pretty hard to get that address.
Speaker Change: as you think about the business?
Speaker Change: You know the the sign not open kind of pipeline is I think something that we've been you know really talking about in last
Speaker Change: Couple quarters for sure that you know, that's what we feel like the market has been missing With us that we've been doing a lot of leasing and these tenants
Speaker Change: take a while to get open and now we're finally seeing this, you know, bear fruit.
Speaker Change: So that, you know, that $5 million is obviously...
Speaker Change: pretty big number with regards to, you know, our portfolio.
Speaker Change: But, you know, one thing is beyond that, yes, we do have a lot of in-place tenants with low lease rates. If you think about, you know, the average vintage of our assets, you know, being called, you know, they were built like 15 years ago.
Speaker Change: you know these leases are below market and so we we hope to get back some of these spaces. One example I give quite a bit is the Tuesday morning space.
Speaker Change: in Beaver Creek and Raleigh, where we now have opened a total line at over double the rent.
Speaker Change: and so, you know.
Speaker Change: See you then.
Speaker Change: As far as, you know, we love buying properties with a little bit of vacancy where we can...
Speaker Change: We can move up the numbers, but it's less to do with replacement rents, but wherever we do see a replacement opportunity, there is uplift, but it's mainly new leasing.
John Albright: Okay, that's helpful. And then back to the acquisition sort of track, how aggressively are you guys pursuing mixed-use assets these days? Is the focus really retail only, and you'll do a mixed-use asset if it's a great deal and it falls into your lap, or are you still aggressively pursuing mixed-use assets going forward?
Speaker Change: Okay, that's helpful. And then maybe just an additional question on the financing front. Appreciate all the color around the debt side. Maybe as you think about the equity here, obviously off to a good start in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: which is nice to see. Given the volatility that we've seen in the capital markets, just strategically, how do you think about opportunistically tapping equity markets and preloading the balance sheet for the opportunity set as you start to think about 2025?
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Erdner with Jones Trading. Your line is now open.
John Albright: Yeah, right now, there are no mixed-use assets in the pipeline. It's primarily our core retail open-air centers.
Operator: Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for taking the question. I'd like to follow up on the investment opportunities and kind of the higher yield. So, in some of these open-air shopping centers, are you guys kind of targeting ones with maybe some lower occupancy or some, I guess, facilities that need some capital improvement to kind of get that increased cap rate?
John Albright: Okay, that's helpful. And then Phil, main contributors to the increased guidance beyond just some of the better leasing, anything, any big slugs that drove up the outlook for the rest of the year?
John Albright: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, we certainly are seeing some properties that need some capital, not, you know, an incredible amount of capital, but definitely a fair amount of upfront capital to refresh the properties. We're not seeing, on the acquisition side, more or less, a lot of vacancy. There's vacancy, but it's not a big component of it.
Phil Mays: Yeah, you know, I think it falls into four buckets, the first one being investment activity, both loans and properties. And the second, as John touched on, timing of them also, right? I think we're seeing acquisitions lead dispositions, so that also drives it. And then we've got, you know, the first half of the year behind us with very, very strong results and then maybe, you know, initially a little conservatism and guidance early in the year, especially with the, you know, out of CFO just being kind of prudent early in the year, because they can evolve in those four buckets. You can kind of spread the increased guidance across them.
John Albright: Gotcha, that's helpful. And then, turning to the loans, should we expect any other early payoffs, or is this kind of a one-time thing?
Operator: All right, that's helpful. Thanks, guys, and have a great weekend. Thanks. You, too.
John Albright: Yeah, nothing is in front of us right now that's going to be paying off anytime soon.
Operator: Gotcha. Thank you guys. That's all for me. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean obviously we, as you know, given that we've been public since 1969 and we've only done one follow-on offering in that time period, we've learned to live without the capital markets.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of John Masako with B Raleigh Securities. Your line is now open.
John Albright: So it sounds like a lot of the investment pipeline is pretty far along at this point, and therefore, the kind of pricing on that was set a while ago. But maybe if you look beyond what's kind of close in the pipeline today or even some of the deals that are a little more up in the air that you have in the pipeline today, are you seeing any pressure on cap rates given some of the moves and interest rates you've seen over the last couple of weeks?
John Albright: Yeah, I mean, I would say that the pressure on cap rates is kind of on the larger type of assets in major MSAs. I would say more of the almost the 200 million dollar sort of assets seem to get more of the pricing pressure. The assets that we're, you know, basically pursuing really, we're trying to avoid the real core institutional capital that wouldn't be chasing these and so trying to buy around the edges, so we're not seeing as much cap rate compression there yet. We expect it, so that's kind of why we're trying to get busy on the acquisition front.
John Albright: Okay, and then it probably extends to most of the disposition side of things, but are you seeing any loosening of this restriction? And is the banking market getting a little more active, if you will, in terms of financing transactions?
John Albright: Yeah, it seems like the CMBS market has been very helpful for folks that are selling assets or for the acquirers that look for secured debt. That's been really helping the transaction market for sure. We don't like to see that because it brings in more competition from folks that are using leverage on the asset basis, but there is better leverage out there, and so that's been helping the transaction market for sure.
John Albright: Okay. And then in terms of the kind of financing, you know, the investment pipeline, particularly on the debt side, what are you seeing in terms of your own cost of debt capital?
Speaker Change: but we certainly love to see the recent strength, especially for the small cap sector.
John Albright: You know, we're largely an unsecured borrower, so just in terms of maybe, you know, terming out the line or something if it gets full or just doing another term loan, you know, five-year swaps have come in, they're under four now, and our spread's about 135 bits, so we could probably do an all-in, fixed, five-year term loan right in the neighborhood of 5% right now.
John Albright: Okay. Would there be any interest in pursuing mortgages depending on what the investment looks like, or is it pretty much all going to be in the term loan market if you do this permanently?
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Gorman with BTIG. Your line is now open.
John Albright: Yeah, we don't like to do, you know, secure debt on the assets. It keeps us, you know, keeps the flexibility because if folks, you know, if we see something we want to sell, it just makes it a lot better transaction for us.
Operator: Yeah, thanks. Good morning.
Operator: That's it for me. Thank you very much.
John Albright: Just a quick question following up on the signed but not open pipeline, John, that you mentioned about the incremental almost $5 million kind of coming online over the course of 2025. You know, how much of that, you know, how much of that will be a net ad versus how much should we think about? There's kind of just the durable spread between leased and occupied space that will always be there. So if we think about that 260 basis for 250 basis point gap, like, what would that normalize to as you think about the business?
John Albright: You know, I mean, look, you know, the sign-not-open kind of pipeline is, I think, something that we've been, you know, really talking about in the last couple quarters for sure that, you know, that's what we feel like the market has been missing with us, that we've been doing a lot of leasing, and these tenants take a while to get open. And now we're finally seeing this, you know, bear fruit.
John Albright: So, you know, that 5 million is obviously a pretty big number with regard to, you know, our portfolio. But 1 thing is, beyond that, yes, we do have a lot of in place tenants with low lease rates. If you think about, you know, the average vintage of our assets, you know, being called it, you know, built like 15 years ago, you know, these leases are below market. And so we, we hope to get back some of these spaces.
John Albright: So, 1 example I give quite a bit is the Tuesday morning space in Beaver Creek and Raleigh, where we now have opened a total line at over double the rent. And so, you know, that's as far as, you know, we love buying properties with a little bit of vacancy where we can, we can move up the numbers, but it's less to do with replacement rents. But we, whenever, wherever we do see a replacement opportunity, there is an uplift, but it's mainly new leasing.
Speaker Change: And so, you know, for sure, if it makes sense, we'll be, you know, looking to grow the company, but we're not trying to rely on the capital markets, given they can be very finicky for these size companies.
John Albright: Okay, that's helpful. And then, maybe just an additional question on the financing front. Appreciate all the color around the debt side. Maybe, as you think about the equity here, obviously off to a good start in the third quarter, which is nice to see. Given the volatility that we've seen in the capital markets, just strategically, how do you think about opportunistically tapping equity markets and preloading the balance sheet for the opportunity set as you start to think about 2025? Yeah, I mean, obviously, we, uh, as you...
John Albright: Yeah, I mean, obviously, we, as you know, given that we've been public since 1969, and we've only done one follow-on offering in that time period, we've learned to live without the capital markets. But we certainly love to see the recent strength, especially in the small cap sector. And so, you know, for sure, if it makes sense, we'll be looking to grow the company, but we're not trying to rely on the capital markets, given that can be very finicky for these size companies.
John Albright: But, you know, we love the backdrop. And obviously, given the strength of our earnings and, you know, a lot of people coming back into retail, I think that's a great backdrop for us.
Speaker Change: We love the backdrop and obviously, given the strength of our earnings and a lot of people coming back into retail, I think that's a great backdrop for us.
Operator: Thank you. And I'm currently showing no further questions at this time. This does conclude today's conference call. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: Okay, thanks guys.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you for watching!