Q2 2024 Sandy Spring Bancorp Inc Earnings Call

July 23, 2024

Hello and welcome to the Sandy Spring Bancorp Incorporated earnings conference call and webcast for the second quarter. My name is Elliot and I'll be coordinating the call today.

Elliot: This is the last call for the second quarter. My name is Elliot, and I'll be coordinating your call today. If you would like to register a question during today's event, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. I'd like to hand over to Aaron Kaslow, General Counsel and Chief Administrative Officer. Please go ahead.

If you would like to register a question during today's event, please press star followed by 1 on your telephone keypad. I would now like to hand over to Aaron Kaslow, General Counsel and Chief Administrative Officer. Please go ahead.

Aaron Michael Kaslow: Thank you, Elliot. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Sandy Spring Bancorp's second quarter earnings conference call. Today I am joined by Dan Schrider, Chairman, President, and CEO, and Charlie Cullum, Chief Financial Officer. I'd like to remind listeners that remarks made during today's call may include forward-looking statements which are subject to risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements include statements of goals, intentions, earnings, and other expectations, estimates of risks and future costs and benefits, assessments of expected credit losses, assessments of market risk, and statements of the ability to achieve financial and other goals.

Aaron Michael Kaslow: These forward-looking statements are subject to significant uncertainties because they are based upon or affected by management's estimates and projections of future interest rates, market behavior, other economic conditions, future laws and regulations, and a variety. Because of these uncertainties, Sandy Spring Bancorp's actual future results may differ materially from those indicated by the. In addition, the company's past results of operations do not necessarily indicate its future results. I'll now turn the call over to Dan.

Speaker Change: I'd like to remind listeners that remarks made during today's calls may include forward-looking statements which are subject to risks and uncertainties.

Speaker Change: These forward-looking statements include statements of goals, intentions, earnings, and other expectations, estimates of risks and future costs and benefits, assessments of expected credit losses, assessments of market risk, and statements of the ability to achieve financial and other goals.

Speaker Change: These forward-looking statements are subject to significant uncertainties because they are based upon or affected by management's estimates and projections of future interest rates, market behavior, other economic conditions, future laws and regulations, and a variety of other matters which, by their very nature, are subject to significant uncertainties.

Speaker Change: Because of these uncertainties, Sandy Spring Bancorp's actual future results may differ materially from those indicated.

Speaker Change: In addition, the company's past results of operations do not necessarily indicate its future results.

Daniel J. Schrider: Thank you, Aaron, and thanks everyone for joining us today. I'll begin today's call by discussing some of our results for the quarter and then turn it over to Charlie. And I will follow with some commentary and subsequently open up the call to your questions.

Speaker Change: I'll now turn the call over to Dan.

Dan: Thank you Aaron and thanks everyone for joining us today. I'll begin today's call by discussing some of our results for the quarter and then turn it over to Charlie and I will follow with some commentary and subsequently open up the call for your questions.

Daniel J. Schrider: In the second quarter, we successfully grew core deposits and C&I loans while also improving the net interest margin. In addition, we've prudently managed expenses. We reported net income of $22.8 million, or $0.51 per diluted common share, for the second quarter of 2024 compared to $20.4 million, or $0.45 per diluted common share, for the first quarter and $24.7 million, or $0.55 per diluted common share, for the second quarter of last year. Core earnings for the current quarter were $24.4 million, or $0.54 per diluted common share, compared to $21.9 million, or $0.49 per diluted common share for the previous quarter and $27.1 million, or $0.60 per diluted common share for the second quarter of last year.

Charlie: In the second quarter, we successfully grew core deposits and C&I loans, while also improving the net interest margin.

Charlie: In addition, we prudently managed expenses.

Charlie: We reported net income of $22.8 million or $0.51 per diluted common share for the second quarter of 2024 compared to $20.4 million or $0.45 per diluted common share for the first quarter and $24.7 million or $0.55 per diluted common share for the second quarter of last year.

Charlie: Core earnings for the current quarter were $24.4 million or $0.54 per diluted common share compared to $21.9 million or $0.49 per diluted common share for the previous quarter and $27.1 or $0.60 per diluted common share for the second quarter of last year.

Daniel J. Schrider: The increase in net income and core earnings compared to the previous quarter was driven by higher non-interest income and net interest income, which improved the net interest margin for the first time in several quarters. Additionally, second quarter results benefited from a lower provision for credit losses, which declined to $1 million from $2.4 million for the first quarter of this year. The provision for credit losses directly attributable to funded loan growth, or the funded loan portfolio, I should say, was $3 million for the second quarter of 2024 compared to $3.3 million for the linked quarter.

Charlie: The increase in net income and core earnings compared to the previous quarter was driven by higher non-interest income and net interest income, which improved the net interest margin for the first time on several quarters.

Charlie: Additionally, second quarter results benefited from a lower provision for credit losses which declined to $1 million from $2.4 million for the first quarter of this year.

Speaker Change: The provision for credit losses directly attributable to funded loan growth, or the funded loan portfolio, I should say, was $3 million for the second quarter of 2024, compared to $3.3 million for the linked quarter.

Daniel J. Schrider: The second quarter provision mainly reflects higher individual reserves on collateral-dependent loans, overall growth of the loan portfolio, and lower qualitative adjustments due to the reduction in commercial real estate loans. The reserve for unfunded commitments declined by $1.9 million, a result of higher utilization rates on lines of credit during the quarter.

Speaker Change: The second quarter provision mainly reflects higher individual reserves on collateral-dependent loans, overall growth of the loan portfolio, and lower qualitative adjustments due to the reduction in commercial real estate loans.

Speaker Change: The reserve for unfunded commitments declined by $1.9 million, a result of higher utilization rates on lines of credit during the quarter.

Daniel J. Schrider: Turning our attention to the balance sheet, total assets increased to $14 billion at the end of the second quarter, compared to $13.9 billion at March 31, 2024. As of June 30, total loans increased by $119.6 million, or 1%, to $11.5 billion compared to the previous year. Commercial business loans and lines grew by $91.9 million, or 6%.

Speaker Change: Turning our attention to the balance sheet, total assets increased to $14 billion at the end of the second quarter, compared to $13.9 billion at March 31, 2024. As of June 30, total loans increased by $119.6 million, or 1%.

Speaker Change: to $11.5 billion compared to the previous quarter.

Speaker Change: Commercial business loans and lines grew $91.9 million or 6%.

Daniel J. Schrider: For the remainder of 2024, we expect funded loan production to continue to be in the range of $200 to $250 million per quarter. Additionally, based on pipelines, we expect commercial loan growth of 1 to 2%. Consistent with our strategy, the commercial investor real estate segment declined by $64.5 million, or 1%, as compared to the first quarter of this year. Total mortgage and consumer loan portfolios remain relatively unchanged in the second quarter compared to the first quarter of 2020.

Speaker Change: For the remainder of 2024, we expect funded loan production to continue to be in the range of $200 to $250 million per quarter. And based on pipelines, we expect commercial loan growth of 1% to 2% per quarter.

Speaker Change: Consistent with our strategy, the commercial investor real estate segment declined by sixty four and a half million or one percent as compared to the first quarter of this year.

Speaker Change: Total mortgage and consumer loan portfolios remain relatively unchanged in the second quarter compared to the first quarter of 2024.

Daniel J. Schrider: As you refer to the supplemental information we also released this morning, pages 7-9 provide more detail on the composition of our loan portfolios, data related to specific property types in our commercial real estate portfolio, and specific commercial real estate composition in the urban markets of D.C. and Baltimore. Slides 16 through 20 of the supplemental deck provide a detailed commercial real estate overview for our retail, multifamily, office, flex, slash warehouse, and hotel portfolio.

Speaker Change: As you refer to the supplemental information we also released this morning, pages 7-9 provide more detail on the composition of our loan portfolios.

Speaker Change: Data related to specific property types in our commercial real estate portfolio and specific commercial real estate composition in the urban markets of DC and Baltimore

Speaker Change: Slide 16 through 20 of the supplemental deck provide a detailed commercial real estate overview for our retail, multifamily, office, flex, warehouse, and hotel portfolios.

Daniel J. Schrider: As you review the data on these slides, you will notice an increase in criticized loans in each portfolio. In response to regulatory guidance issued last year and due to our continued focus on portfolio management, we reassessed commercial credits where cash flow fell short of covenants. Despite having satisfactory payment performance, based on this review, we recategorize $144 million to special mention and $19.5 million to substandard. There are minimal delinquencies within these credits as repayment has continued to be supported by strong sponsors or guarantors, and the reclassification had an impact of $900,000 on the allowance for loan losses, but no loans required specific reserves.

Speaker Change: As you review the data on these slides, you will notice an increase in criticized loans in each portfolio.

Speaker Change: In response to regulatory guidance issued last year and due to our continued focus on portfolio management, we reassessed commercial credits where cash flow fell short of covenants.

Speaker Change: despite having satisfactory payment performance.

Speaker Change: Based on this review, we recategorized $144 million to special mention and $19.5 million to substandard.

Speaker Change: There are minimal delinquencies within these credits as repayment has continued to be supported by strong sponsors or guarantors and the reclassification had an impact of $900,000 on the allowance for loan losses but no loans required specific reserves.

Daniel J. Schrider: As we also note in these slides, we are lending in our primary market that we know well. We have five accruing delinquent credits among the five portfolios referenced in the Supplemental Deck and only a handful of non-performing loans that have been subject to early identification and appropriately refunded. We continue to focus on our portfolio management, including staying close to our clients, assessing credits that are subject to repricing throughout the year, closely monitoring other portfolios, and evaluating the need for specific reserves should credits show further deterioration. Now I'll turn it to Charlie, who will walk through other aspects of our financial results.

Speaker Change: As we also note in these slides, we are lending in our primary market that we know well. We have five accruing delinquent credits among the five portfolios referenced in the supplemental deck, and only a handful of non-performing loans that have been subject to early identification and appropriately reserved.

Speaker Change: We continue to focus on our portfolio management, including staying close to our clients, assessing credits that are subject to repricing throughout the year.

Speaker Change: closely monitoring other portfolios and evaluating the need for specific reserves should credit show further deterioration.

Charlie Cullum: Thanks, Dan. It's good to be with you today.

Speaker Change: Now, I'll turn it to Charlie who will walk through other aspects of our financial results.

Charlie: Thanks, Dan. It's good to be with you today. Moving to deposits, we continue to grow core funding and reduce broker time deposits during the second quarter of 2024.

Charlie Cullum: Moving to deposits, we continue to grow core funding and reduce broker time deposits during the second quarter of 2024. Total deposits increased $113 million, or 1%, to $11.3 billion at June 30th, compared to $11.2 billion at the end of the first quarter. Non-interest bearing deposits increased $113.5 million, or 4% compared to the first quarter, driven by commercial and small business checking accounts. Interest-buying deposits were relatively unchanged.

Charlie: Total deposits increased $113 million, or 1%, to $11.3 billion at June 30th, compared to $11.2 billion at the end of the first quarter.

Charlie: Our interest bearing deposits increased $113.5 million, or 4% compared to the first quarter, driven by commercial and small business checking accounts.

Charlie Cullum: Money market funds grew 167.6 million, or 6%, and savings accounts grew by 99 million, or 6%, during the second quarter. However, these increases were offset by $172.5 million, or 7%, reduction in time deposits, of which $154.7 million was a reduction in broker time deposits. Excluding broker deposits, core deposits increased by 271.2 million, or 3% compared to the prior quarter. Core deposits represented 94% of total deposits at the end of the quarter as compared to 93% in the prior quarter.

Charlie: Interest-bearing deposits were relatively unchanged. Money market grew 167.6 million or 6%, and savings accounts grew by 99 million or 6% during the second quarter.

Charlie: These increases were offset by the $172.5 million, or 7% reduction in time deposits, of which $154.7 million was a reduction in broker time deposits.

Charlie: Excluding broker deposits, core deposits increased by 271.2 million, or 3% compared to the prior quarter. Core deposits represented 94% of total deposits at the end of the quarter, as compared to 93% in the prior quarter.

Charlie Cullum: The deposit growth during the quarter resulted in a loan-to-deposit ratio of 101% at June 30, 2024. Total uninsured deposits at the end of the quarter were approximately 36% of total deposits. Total borrowings were relatively unchanged at June 30th as compared to the previous quarter.

Charlie: The deposit growth during the quarter resulted in a loan-to-deposit ratio of 101% at June 30, 2024.

Charlie: Total uninsured deposits at the end of the quarter were approximately 36% of total deposits.

Charlie Cullum: Contingent liquidity, which consists of available SHLB borrowings, fed funds, funds through the Federal Reserve Bank's discount window, as well as excess cash and unpledged investment securities, totals $6.3 billion, or 154% of uninsured deposits. Non-interest income for the second quarter of 2024 increased by 7 percent or $1.2 million compared to the length of the quarter and grew by 14 percent or $2.4 million compared to the prior The main drivers of the linked quarter increase in non-interest income were twofold, a $700,000 increase in BOLI income due to the receipt of debt proceeds and a $500,000 increase in wealth management income.

Charlie: Total borrowings are relatively unchanged at June 30th as compared to the previous quarter.

Charlie: Contingent liquidity, which consists of available FHLB borrowings, fed funds, funds through the Federal Reserve Bank's discount window, as well as excess cash and unpledged investment securities, totals $6.3 billion, or 154% of uninsured deposits.

Charlie: Non-interest income for the second quarter of 2024 increased by 7% or $1.2 million compared to the length quarter and grew by 14% or $2.4 million compared to the prior year quarter.

Charlie: The main drivers of the linked quarter increase in non-interest income were twofold, a $700,000 increase in BOLI income due to the receipt of debt proceeds, and a $500,000 increase in wealth management income.

Charlie Cullum: This increase was due to $50.2 million, or 1% growth, in asset center management during the quarter. Through June, wealth management income accounts for approximately 54% of the bank's total non-interest income. Income from mortgage banking activities increased 18% on a linked quarter basis.

Charlie: This increase was due to $50.2 million or 1% growth in asset center management during the quarter.

Charlie: Through June , wealth management income accounts for approximately 54% of the bank's total non-interest income.

Charlie Cullum: Our expectations for mortgage banking revenue for the third quarter of 2024 are in the range of $1 to $1.5 million, and the interest margin was $2.46 for the second quarter of 2024 compared to 2.41% for the first quarter of 2024. The link quarter improvement in the margin was a result of a two basis point increase in the yield on interest earning assets, coupled with a three basis point decline in the rate paid on interest bearing liabilities. We will continue to employ a disciplined approach to pricing in order to improve the energy smart.

Charlie: Income from mortgage banking activities increased 18% on a linked quarter basis. Our expectations for mortgage banking revenue for the third quarter of 2024 are in the range of $1 to $1.5 million.

Charlie: The net interest margin was $2.46 for the second quarter of 2024 compared to 2.41% for the first quarter of 2024.

Charlie: The link quarter improvement in the margin was a result of a two basis point increase in the yield on interest earning assets, coupled with a three basis point decline in the rate paid on interest bearing liability.

Charlie: We will continue to employ a disciplined approach to pricing in order to improve the net interest market.

Charlie Cullum: As an action by the Fed, we believe that our margin will be expanding throughout the remainder of 2024 by two to four basis points per quarter. We anticipate that the Federal Reserve will cut interest rates later in the year with four rate cuts next year, which should accelerate our margin expansion during 2025 toward a low 3% margin by the end of 2020. Managers' expenses for the current quarter were flat compared to the length of the previous quarter at $68.1 million.

Charlie: Absent action by the Fed, we believe that our margin will be expanding throughout the remainder of 2024 by 2 to 4 basis points per quarter.

Charlie: We anticipate that the Federal Reserve will cut interest rates later in the year with four rate cuts next year, which should accelerate our margin expansion during 2025 towards a low 3% margin by the end of 2025.

Speaker Change: Managers' expenses for the current quarter were flat compared to the length quarter at $68.1 million.

Charlie Cullum: You may see a slight increase in expenses in the second half of the year, and we look to manage in the range of $68 to $70 million per quarter. This anticipated increase in expenses is in part due to our recent investments in building our SBA team, which Dan communicated on the call last quarter. We're ahead of schedule with both hiring talent for this new program and building out the necessary infrastructure.

Speaker Change: You may see a slight increase in expenses in the second half of the year, and we look to manage in the range of $68 to $70 million per quarter.

Speaker Change: This anticipated increase in expenses is in part due to our recent investments in building our SBA team, which Dan communicated on the call last quarter. We're ahead of schedule with both hiring talent for this new program and building out the necessary infrastructure.

Charlie Cullum: While this will contribute to slightly higher expenses in the latter half of the year, we anticipate that the program will contribute to our non-interest income by year-and-a-half. Shifting to credit quality, the level of non-performing loans to total loans at the end of the second quarter of 2024 was 81 basis points compared to 74 basis points at March 30, 2024. This link order increase was due to a few loans within the commercial owner-occupied real estate segment that were placed on non-accrual status during the current period. However, all of these loans are well secured.

Speaker Change: While this will contribute to slightly higher expenses in the latter half of the year, we anticipate that the program will contribute to our non-interest income by year-end.

Speaker Change: Shifting to credit quality, the level of non-performing loans to total loans at the end of the second quarter of 2024 was 81 basis points compared to 74 basis points at March 30, 2024.

Speaker Change: This link order increase was due to a few loans within the commercial owner-occupied real estate segment that were placed on non-accrual status during the current period. All of these loans are well secured.

Charlie Cullum: Non-performing loans totaled $93 million at the end of the quarter, compared to $84.4 million at March 31, 2024. Total net charge-offs for the second quarter were $200,000, compared to $1.1 million for the first quarter of 2024. At June 30, 2024, the allowance for credit losses was $125.9 million, or 1.1% of outstanding loans and 135% of non-performing loans, compared to $123.1 million, or 1.08% of outstanding loans and 146% of non-performing loans at the end of the previous quarter.

Speaker Change: Non-performing loans totaled $93 million at the end of the quarter compared to $84.4 million at March 31, 2024.

Speaker Change: Total net charge-offs for the second quarter were $200,000 compared to $1.1 million for the first quarter of 2024.

Speaker Change: At June 30, 2024, the allowance for credit losses was $125.9 million, or 1.1% of outstanding loans and 135% of non-performing loans.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Charlie Cullum: The increase in the allowance for the second quarter of 2024 compared to the previous quarter reflects higher individual reserves on collateral-dependent nonaccrual loans and overall growth of the loan portfolio during the quarter. However, these are somewhat offset by lower qualitative adjustments that have resulted from reduced levels of commercial real estate. Our CREDA capital ratio declined to 346% at quarter end from 348% as of March 31st. At June 30, 2024, the company had a total risk-based capital ratio of 15.49%, a common equity Tier 1 risk-based capital ratio of 11.28%, a Tier 1 risk-based capital ratio of 11.28%, and a Tier 1 leverage ratio of 9.7%.

Speaker Change: The increase in the allowance for the second quarter of 2024 compared to the previous quarter reflects higher individual reserves on collateral-dependent nonaccrual loans and overall growth of the loan portfolio during the quarter.

Speaker Change: These are somewhat offset by lower qualitative adjustments that have resulted from reduced levels of commercial real estate loans.

Speaker Change: Our CREE to capital ratio declined to 346% at quarter end from 348% as of March 31st.

Speaker Change: At June 30, 2024, the company had a total risk-based capital ratio of 15.49%, a common equity Tier 1 risk-based capital ratio of 11.28%,

Speaker Change: a Tier 1 risk-based capital ratio of 11.28% and a Tier 1 leverage ratio of 9.7%.

Charlie Cullum: These ratios remain well in excess of the minimum regulatory requirement. The improvements in our capital ratios over the previous quarter were due to a decline in our risk-weighted assets during the quarter. This was the result of a management review of our unfunded consumer lines of credit, and the position is consistent with regulatory guidelines. With that, I will turn it back to Dan.

Speaker Change: These ratios remain well in excess of the minimum regulatory requirements.

Speaker Change: The improvements in our capital ratios over the previous quarter were due to a decline in our risk-weighted assets during the quarter. This was the result of a management review of our unfunded consumer lines of credit, and the position is consistent with regulatory guidelines.

Dan: With that, I will turn it back to Dan to talk about some things we see on the horizon.

Daniel J. Schrider: I'd like to wrap up our prepared comments by reiterating our key priorities. We remain focused on improving our profitability, continuing to bolster core funding, managing expenses, and enhancing credit portfolio management while also reducing our commercial real estate exposure. Teams across the organization are challenging the status quo. We're focusing on innovation and performance to better serve our clients. The greater Washington, D.C. metro area is a vibrant market characterized by positive growth trends and ample opportunity.

Dan: Thanks, Charlie.

Dan: I'd like to wrap up our prepared comments by reiterating our key priorities.

Dan: We remain focused on improving our profitability, continuing to bolster core funding, managing expenses, and enhancing credit portfolio management while also reducing our commercial real estate exposure.

Speaker Change: Teams across the organization are challenging the status quo. We're focusing on innovation and performance to better serve our clients.

Speaker Change: The greater Washington DC metro area is a vibrant market characterized by positive growth trends and ample opportunity.

Daniel J. Schrider: We continue to expand both our capabilities and our offerings to increase market share, and our new SBA lending program we mentioned earlier is just one example of that. I'm pleased with the company's stability and positive momentum, and I look forward to building on those accomplishments. So at this time, Elliot, we'll turn it over to you so we can take your questions.

Speaker Change: So we continue to expand both on our capabilities and our offerings to increase market share, and our new SBA lending program we mentioned earlier is just one example of that. I'm pleased with the company's stability and positive momentum, and I look forward to building on those accomplishments.

Speaker Change: So at this time Elliot, we'll turn it over to you so we can take your questions.

Elliot: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, please press star followed by two. When preparing to ask your question, please ensure your device is unmuted locally. The first question comes from Catherine Mealor with Keith Brouillette, Underwood. Your line is open, please go ahead. Thanks.

Speaker Change: First question comes from Catherine Mealor with Keith, Brouillette and William. Your line is open, please go ahead.

Catherine Fitzhugh Summerson Mealor: Thanks. Good afternoon. Thank you, Catherine. The commentary on the margin for the back half of the year was helpful. It's good to see some expansion in that.

Catherine Fitzhugh Summerson Mealor: Thanks. Good afternoon.

Catherine Fitzhugh Summerson Mealor: Thank you, Catherine.

Speaker Change: The commentary on the margin for the back half of the year I thought was helpful. It's good to see.

Charlie Cullum: Can you just talk to us a little bit about some of your assumptions within that, particularly on the funding side? It feels like you're near a peak in deposit costs and could actually see a decline in deposit costs before we get to rate cuts. How are you thinking about how deposit costs will change?

Speaker Change: some expansion in that. Can you just talk to us a little bit about some of your assumptions within that?

Speaker Change: Particularly on the funding side, do you feel like you're near a peak in deposit costs and actually could see a decline in deposit costs before we get to rate cuts? Or how are you thinking about how deposit costs will trend?

Charlie: Hi Catherine, it's Charlie.

Charlie: Hi, how are you? We've certainly gotten close to a peak in deposit costs. Our deposit costs for the month of June were $346,000 compared to

Charlie Cullum: Our deposit costs for the month of June were $3.56 compared to $3.54 in the quarter. So they were up a little bit, but overall, our earning asset yields continue to expand. So our projection would be that if we come close to leveling off, we may see a basis point or two increase in total deposit costs here over the next couple of quarters, at least until the Fed begins to cut interest rates.

Charlie: Our deposit costs for the month of June were $3.56 compared to $3.54 in the quarter. So they were up a little bit, but overall earning asset yields continue to expand.

Charlie: So our projection would be that if we come close to leveling off, we may see a basis point or two increase in total deposit costs here over the next couple quarters.

Charlie Cullum: But we should see some corresponding decreases in our wholesale funding through advances and other Fed funds purchased, which should offset some of those costs. And that's really where we're getting that improvement in margin from. So a few basis points improvement in the overall earning asset yield and pretty stable on the total cost of interest-bearing liabilities, getting us to a couple basis points, to a few basis points of margin.

Charlie: At least until the Fed begins to cut interest rates, but we should see some corresponding decreases in our wholesale funding through advances and other Fed funds purchased, which should offset some of those costs.

Charlie: And that's really where we're getting that improvement in margin from. So a few basis points improvement in the overall earning asset yield and pretty stable on the total cost of interest-bearing liabilities, getting us to a couple basis points, to a few basis points of margin expansion.

Charlie Cullum: OK, OK, great. And then can you remind us and quantify the fixed rate repricing opportunity we've got in the back half of the year and maybe in 2025 as well?

Speaker Change: Okay. Okay, great.

Speaker Change: And then can you remind us and quantify the fixed rate repricing opportunity we've got in the back half of the year and maybe in 2025 as well?

Charlie Cullum: Yeah, so we're looking at total commercial loans. We've got The next two quarters, the third quarter of 2024 and the fourth quarter, have right around $500 million in total each quarter of repricing, and those rates are repricing from the mid to upper sixes. So you're not going to see significant improvement in loan yields as a result of the repricing in the second half of the year. But then again, as we head into 2025.

Speaker Change: Yeah, so if we're looking at total commercial loans, we've got

Speaker Change: The next two quarters, the third quarter of 2024 and the fourth quarter, have right around $500 million in total each quarter of repricing, and those rates are repricing from

Speaker Change: mid to upper sixes. So you're not going to see significant improvement in loan yields as a result of the repricing in the second half of the year, but then as we head into 2025,

Charlie Cullum: The rate on repricing falls into the mid-sixes, and then by early 2026, the repricing rate falls into the upper fives to low sixes. So we'll see a gradual improvement over that period of time and loan yields as those loans reprice.

Speaker Change: The rate on repricing falls into the mid-sixes, and then by early 2026, the repricing rate falls into the upper fives to low sixes.

Speaker Change: So we'll see a gradual improvement over that period of time in loan yields as those loans reprice.

Daniel J. Schrider: And I could just add one more on credit. You talked about the credits that you moved to special mention and substandard.

Speaker Change: Okay, great.

Speaker Change: One more on credit. You talked about the credits that you moved to special mention and substandard. Is part of the assumption in why there's not additional reserve needed or there's a low risk of loss?

Daniel J. Schrider: Is part of the assumption in why there's not additional reserve needed or there's a low risk of loss, is the rate outlook kind of a piece of that? And if we were in a higher for longer rate scenario, do you believe there would potentially be more stress in these projects? Just some kind of commentary on what gives you comfort that there's not a lot of loss content in this credit.

Speaker Change: Is the rate outlook kind of a piece of that, and if we were in a higher for longer rate scenario, do you believe there would potentially be more stress in these projects? Just some kind of commentary on what gives you comfort that there's not a lot of lost content in those credits.

Daniel J. Schrider: Yeah, Catherine, this is Dan. I wouldn't say that the rate outlook was a catalyst for those moves, though. I think it was more of what we're seeing in the here and now. And it's not, there isn't one aspect of those credits that would drive those decisions. In some cases, it might be a project that has come out of the ground recently, and we're waiting for it to stabilize and the sponsors and guarantors are covering it, or some short-term lease turnover that created a fall below the covenant level.

Speaker Change: Yeah, Catherine, this is Dan. I wouldn't say that the rate outlook was a catalyst for those moves. I think it was more of...

Speaker Change: what we're seeing in the here and now, and it's not, there isn't one aspect of those credits that would drive those decisions. In some cases it might be a project that

Speaker Change: We had come out of the ground recently and we're waiting for it to stabilize, and the sponsors and guarantors are covering it. Or some short-term lease turnover that created a fall below covenant level.

Daniel J. Schrider: I do think if rates stayed higher longer on some of the projects that we have in our construction portfolio that will come on the market here in the next, you know, quarters, or so, that could have an impact on those because those are generally floating rate assets that could certainly use the relief of some Fed cuts. But that was not a driver.

Speaker Change: I do think if rates stayed higher longer on some of the projects that we have in our construction portfolio that will come, you know, on the market here in the next, you know,

Speaker Change: quarter few quarters or so that could have an impact on those because those are generally floating rate assets

Speaker Change: that could certainly use the relief of some Fed cuts.

Daniel J. Schrider: I think that, you know, the overall assessment of those loans is recognizing that they're below covenant. It's in line with kind of the Fed guidance that they laid out about a year ago in terms of how we should be looking at those and then assessing the overall project underlying collateral if it's a collateral-dependent loan, and that's causing us not to be concerned about where we stand from a reserve standpoint today.

Speaker Change: But that was not a driver. I think that, you know, the overall assessment of those loans is recognizing that they're below covenant. It's in line with kind of the Fed guidance that they laid out about a year ago.

Speaker Change: in terms of how we should be looking at those and then assessing assessing the overall project underlying collateral if it's a collateral dependent loan and and that's causing us to not be concerned about about where we stand from a reserve standpoint today.

Daniel J. Schrider: But we'll continue to stay close to it. If something, you know, things change, then our customary portfolio management practices would have us do valuations and appraisals and the like, and we're not seeing a number of credits kind of going toward that direction.

Speaker Change: But we'll continue to stay close to it. If something, you know, things change, then our customary portfolio management practices would have us, you know, do valuations and appraisals and the like, and we're not seeing a number of credits kind of going toward that direction.

Daniel J. Schrider: Great. And did you have to get updated appraisals on the credits when you moved them?

Speaker Change: Great. And did you have to get updated appraisals on the credits when you moved them?

Catherine Fitzhugh Summerson Mealor: We'll selectively... Got it. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Okay, great. That's all I have. Thank you very much.

Speaker Change: No, we do not, no.

Speaker Change: We'll selectively do that.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Got it. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Okay, great. That's all I got. Thank you very much.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Our next question comes from Russell Gunther with Stevens. Your line is open, go ahead.

Speaker Change: Thanks, Catherine.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Russell Gunther with Stevens. Your line is open, go ahead.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Hi, good afternoon, guys. [inaudible] Good. I just wanted to follow up on comments you made with regard to the RWA optimization in the corridor. Could you guys provide us with the size of the loan pool that that applied to and then whether or not there's opportunity for similar actions going forward?

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Hi, good afternoon, guys.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: I just wanted to follow up on comments you made with regard to the RWA optimization in the corridor. Could you guys provide us with the size of the loan pool that that applied to and then whether or not there's opportunity for similar actions going forward?

Charlie Cullum: Hi Russ, this is Charlie. We started a project during the quarter to look at risk-weighted assets and how we're classifying our various asset classes, you know, within that risk-weighted asset assignment. And so far, the one item we changed during this quarter was related to consumer loans, specifically home equity lines of credit, where we had them classified as conditionally cancelable, so that they carried a – the unfunded commitment portion of those credits carried a 50 percent risk weighting.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Hi Russ, this is Charlie. We started a project during the quarter to look at risk-weighted assets and how we're classifying our

Charlie: various asset classes, you know, within that risk-weighted asset assignment.

Speaker Change: And so far, the one item we changed during this quarter was related to consumer loans, specifically home equity lines of credit.

Speaker Change: where we had them classified as conditionally...

Speaker Change: The unfunded commitment portion of those credits carried a 50% risk weighting.

Charlie Cullum: However, FDIC guidelines allow you to classify them as unconditionally cancelable as long as they are cancelable up to federal law, which is Reg Z. We did an internal legal review, worked with our auditors, and determined that our equity line of credit population should be classified as unconditionally cancelable and carry a zero percent risk weighting, at least for the majority of those credits. That pulled in a little over 700 million, so it was about a $360 million reduction in risk-weighted assets during the quarter. We'll continue to work through the project to look at a variety of other risk-weighted asset classes to determine if any other changes are needed, with those changes taking effect sometime during the third quarter.

Speaker Change: However, FDIC guidelines allow you to classify them as unconditionally cancelable as long as they are cancelable up to federal law, which is Reg Z. We did an internal legal review, worked with our auditors, and determined that our

Speaker Change: Faculty Line of Credit, Population.

Speaker Change: should be classified as unconditionally cancelable and carry a 0% risk weighting, at least for the majority of those credits. That pulled a little over $700 million, so it was about a $360 million reduction.

Speaker Change: risk-weighted assets during the quarter. We'll continue to work through the project to look at a variety of other risk-weighted asset classes to determine if any other changes are needed with those changes taking effect sometime during the third quarter.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Okay, that's really helpful. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay, that's really helpful. Thank you.

Charlie Cullum: And then I wanted to circle back to Catherine's question earlier in terms of the fixed repricing. You guys gave a lot of helpful color in terms of the rate in 25 and 26. I'm wondering if we could follow up on the amount of the fixed repricing opportunity. Is it similar to the 500 a quarter in the back half of this year?

Speaker Change: And then, I wanted to circle back to Catherine's question earlier in terms of the fixed repricing. You guys gave a lot of helpful color.

Speaker Change: In terms of the rate in 25 and 26, I'm wondering if we could follow up in terms of the amount of the fixed repricing opportunity. Is it similar to the 500 a quarter in the back half of this year?

Charlie Cullum: That's a good question. As we head into 2025, the amount of repricing is between $200 and $300 million per quarter, so it certainly falls a bit. We've got a little bit of a bubble of repricing that will occur here in the next two quarters, but then somewhere in the $200 to $300 million per quarter range on the total commercial loan portfolio.

Speaker Change: That's a good question. As we head into 2025,

Speaker Change: The amount of repricing is between $200 million and $300 million per quarter, so it certainly falls a bit. We've got a little bit of a bubble of repricing that will occur here in the next two quarters.

Speaker Change: But then somewhere in the $200 to $300 million per quarter range on the total commercial loan portfolio.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Okay, thank you for that. And then the last one for me, guys, is the, oh, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker Change: Okay, thank you for that. And then last one for me guys is the, oh sorry, go ahead.

Charlie Cullum: I was just going to say that specifically related to the fixed rate term, there will be additional repricing related, floating, and adjustable credit.

Speaker Change: I was just going to say that is specifically related to the fixed rate.

Speaker Change: There will be additional repricing related to floating and adjustable credits.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Thanks for the clarification. The last one for me is on the fee outlook, which I think for the year you've got it high single digits. You mentioned the mortgage outlook, the 3Q. Anything else that you would expect to step down? Otherwise, it looks to me like, you know, potentially it could be closer to double digits, maybe being conservative, or maybe something I'm missing. We just appreciate any thoughts. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thanks for the clarification. The last one for me is on the fee outlook, which I think for the year you've got it high single digit. You mentioned the mortgage outlook, the 3Q.

Speaker Change: Anything else that you would expect to step down? Otherwise, it looks to me like, you know, potentially could be closer to double digits, maybe being conservative, or maybe something I'm missing, but just appreciate any, any thoughts. Thank you.

Charlie Cullum: No, I mean, I think double digits are certainly possible, certainly on the wealth side. The market is highly market-dependent. I'm here recently.

Speaker Change: I think double digits are certainly possible.

Speaker Change: Certainly on the

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: The market's performing really well, so those areas will perform well as well. Obviously, the BOLI income we received during the quarter was a one-time income with no anticipation that that could recur. And then we do have some expectation that we'll see some of those SBA gains start to occur during the fourth quarter. We're just not confident if there is going to be a fourth-quarter event or a first-quarter event at this time. So, I think your comments around... high single digits to low single digits improvement, somewhere in that range is likely.

Speaker Change: The wealth side, the market, it's highly market dependent. I'm here recently, the market's performing really well. So those areas will perform well.

Speaker Change: as well. Obviously, the bullion income we received during the quarter was...

Speaker Change: one-time income with no anticipation that that could recur.

Speaker Change: And then we do have some expectation that we'll see some of those SBA gains start to occur during the fourth quarter. We're just not confident if they're going to be a fourth quarter event or a first quarter event at this time. So I think your comments around...

Speaker Change: High single digits, high single digits to low single digits improvement, somewhere in that range is likely.

Russell Elliott Teasdale Gunther: Okay, I appreciate your thoughts guys. Thanks for taking my question.

Speaker Change: Okay. I appreciate your thoughts, guys. Thanks for taking my questions.

Elliot: As a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now. We now turn to Manuel Navas on behalf of T.A. Davidson. Your line is open, please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Thanks, Russell.

Speaker Change: As a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad now.

Speaker Change: We now turn to Manuel Navas with D.A. Davidson. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Manuel Antonio Navas: Hey, good afternoon. Could you update on some of the deposit initiatives that are kind of driving a little bit better guidance, and strong, strong growth this quarter and last? Where are you seeing the most success?

Manuel Antonio Navas: Hey, good afternoon. Could you update on some of the deposit initiatives that are kind of driving a little bit better guidance, strong growth this quarter and last? Where are you seeing the most success?

Daniel J. Schrider: Hi Manuel, this is Dan. We are; there's not one specific area. We're seeing success really across the board as our folks in our branch network are out, driving deposit growth through their client relationships. We're also having success with our digital marketing and digital fulfillment through our online platform. Commercial bankers are continuing to manage our client relationships there and driving new client deposits. And one thing we talked about last time we were together was some initiatives we had in reaching out to new clients that we attracted through our high-yield savings account, and we developed some products for that segment.

Manuel Antonio Navas: Hi Manuel, this is Dan.

Dan: We are, there's not one specific area, we're seeing success really across the board as our folks in our branch network are out

Speaker Change: driving deposit growth through their client relationships. We're having success with our digital marketing and digital fulfillment through our online platform.

Speaker Change: Commercial bankers are continuing to mind our client relationships there and driving new client deposits. And one thing we we talked about last time we were together I believe was some initiatives we had in reaching into

Speaker Change: the new clients that we attracted through our high-yield savings account, and we developed some products for that segment. Hasn't hit the ground as well as we had expected, so we're tweaking the products as well as the promotion.

Daniel J. Schrider: It hasn't hit the ground as well as we had expected, so we're tweaking the products as well as the promotion to get more success in turning those into full banking relationships. But there's not one initiative underway that's driving our success. I think it's really across the board. The teams are fully engaged in driving new relationships through both branches and through digital means.

Speaker Change: to get more success in turning those into full banking relationships. But there's not one.

Speaker Change: initiative underway that's driving our success. I think it's really across the board the teams are fully engaged on driving new relationships through both branches and through digital means.

Daniel J. Schrider: And that's showing in better pipelines and kind of better, a little bit increased, and having a positive outlook for the year. I think overall...

Speaker Change: And that's showing in better pipelines and kind of better, a little bit increased.

Daniel J. Schrider: I think overall, yes. I think the one thing that came back to us a good bit in the second quarter was the commercial and small business DDAs. So there's some seasonality in that quarter, but we're driving new relationships, both in retail and small business.

Speaker Change: Deposit Outlook for the Year.

Speaker Change: I think overall, yes. I think the one thing that came back to us a good bit in the second quarter was the commercial and small business DDAs. So there's some seasonality in that interim quarter.

Daniel J. Schrider: And then can you talk about the mix of loan growth, you know, that one to two percent growth? Is it going to be primarily on the C&I side?

Speaker Change: And then can you talk about the mix of loan growth, you know, that one to two percent growth. It's going to be primarily on the C&I side.

Daniel J. Schrider: I would say, yeah, the pipeline... Coming out of last quarter, just to give you a sense, first quarter pipeline was in the mid $600 million range. This quarter, as we wrap up, is in the low $800 million range, so we're seeing some pipeline build, and it is predominantly C&I and owner-occupied real estate, which is quite closely tied to those C&I relationships. We'll still see some growth by virtue of what we already have on our books in the AD&C portfolio that we'll fund, in new home building construction, as well as some other multifamily that we have in the AD&C book that we'll still continue to fund. But the pipeline of new opportunities is predominantly C&I and owner-occupied real estate.

Speaker Change: I would say, yeah, the pipeline...

Speaker Change: This, coming out of last quarter, just to give you a sense, first quarter pipeline.

Speaker Change: was in the mid $600 million range. This quarter, as we wrap up, is in the low $800 million range, so we're seeing some pipeline build, and it is predominantly...

Speaker Change: C&I and owner-occupied real estate which is quite closely tied to those C&I relationships. We will still see some some growth by virtue of

Speaker Change: What we've already have on our books in the AD&C portfolio that we'll fund in res home building construction as well as some other Multifamily that we have in the in the AD&C book that we'll still continue to fund But the pipeline of new opportunities is predominantly C&I and owner-occupied real estate

Charlie Cullum: Could you just speak to the pace? an acceleration of the pace of NIM improvement with rate cuts. I think you talked about it in your comments that you could get to 3% plus by the end of next year, based on your rate assumption. So that builds in a little bit of an acceleration of NIM improvement. Is that still represented in those comments?

Speaker Change: Could you just speak to the pace?

Speaker Change: an acceleration of pace of NIM improvement with rate cuts. I think you talked about it for...

Speaker Change: in your comments that you could get to 3% plus by the end of next year based on your rate assumption. So that builds in a little bit of an acceleration of NIM improvement. Is that still represented in those comments?

Charlie Cullum: Yeah, so we do expect that once the Fed begins to cut interest rates, we'll see some improvement. But we're a little more cautious about the first rate cut or so and whether, you know, pricing across the board in our marketplace is going to come down enough for us to be as aggressive on our deposit betas as we'd like to be early on. But we do expect once the Fed, you know, makes to the second or third cut, that those betas will be much higher than we've historically seen within our portfolio. Quite a bit of the benefits that we expect to see from the Fed movement are related to changes in the shape of the yield curve. So that's one thing to be cautious with.

Speaker Change: Yeah, so we do expect that once the Fed begins to cut interest rates, we'll see some improvement. We'll say we're

Speaker Change: a little more cautious about the first rate cut or so, and whether, you know, pricing across the board in our marketplace is going to come down enough for us to be as aggressive on our deposit betas as we'd like to be early on. But we do expect once the Fed, you know,

Speaker Change: makes to the second, third cut, that those betas will be much higher than we've historically seen within our portfolios.

Speaker Change: Quite a bit of the benefits that we expect to see from the Fed movement.

Charlie Cullum: If the overall yield curve comes down, so the long end comes down right with the short end, the benefit won't be as great as what we're projecting. It would be a little bit more difficult for us to achieve that 3% by the end of 2025. But certainly falling deposit costs and then just continued repricing of the loan portfolio, yielding similar to where they are today, or even slightly lower, would allow our...

Speaker Change: is related to changes in the shape of the yield curve. So that's one thing to be cautious with. If the overall yield curve comes down, so the long end comes down right with the short end, the benefit won't be as great as what we're projecting.

Speaker Change: would be a little bit more difficult for us to achieve that 3% by the end of 2025. But certainly falling deposit costs and then just continued repricing of the loan portfolio at

Speaker Change: similar to where they are today, or even slightly lower, would allow our

Charlie Cullum: Margin is expected to expand at pretty close to twice the rate that it would without FedCut. So you'd be looking somewhere in the maybe 5 to 10 basis point range of quarterly improvement once we can start pulling those deposit costs down versus the 2 to 4 basis points of quarterly improvement that we're projecting.

Speaker Change: margin to expand at pretty...

Speaker Change: pretty close to twice the rate that it would without FedCuts, so you'd be looking somewhere in the maybe 5 to 10 basis point range of quarterly improvement once we can start pulling those deposit costs down versus the 2 to 4 basis points of quarterly improvement that we're projecting absent.

Manuel Antonio Navas: That's really helpful. Thank you. I'll step back into the queue.

Speaker Change: Movement by the Fed.

Speaker Change: That's really helpful. Thank you. I'll step back into the queue.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, we have no further questions. So this concludes our Q&A and today's conference call. We'd like to thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.

Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, we have no further questions. So this concludes our Q&A and today's conference call. We'd like to thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.

Q2 2024 Sandy Spring Bancorp Inc Earnings Call

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