Q2 2024 Hilltop Holdings Inc Earnings Call

July 26, 2024

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Operator: Clean and buy, your program is about to begin. Good day everyone, and welcome to the Hilltop Holdings 2nd quarter 2024 earnings conference call and webcast. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. You will have the opportunity to ask questions during the question-and-answer session.

Operator: BF-WATCH TV 2021

Operator: Good day everyone, and welcome to the Hilltop Holdings second quarter 2024 earnings conference call and webcast. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. You will have the opportunity to ask questions during the question and answer session. You may register to ask questions by pressing the star and 1 on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question by pressing star 2. Please note this call is being recorded, and I will be standing by should you need any assistance. It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Erik Yohe. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Good day everyone and welcome to the Hilltop Holdings second quarter 2024 earnings conference call and webcast.

Speaker Change: At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. You will have the opportunity to ask questions during the question and answer session. You may register to ask questions by pressing the star and 1 on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question by pressing star 2.

Operator: You may register to ask questions by pressing the star and one on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question by pressing Star 2.

Speaker Change: Please note this call is being recorded and I will be standing by should you need any assistance.

Operator: Please note this pleasure to join the conference over to Erik Yohe. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Erik Yohe. Please go ahead.

Erik Yohe: Thank you, operator.

Erik Yohe: Before we get started, please note that certain statements during today's presentation that are not statements of historical fact, including statements concerning such items as our outlook, business strategy, future plans, financial condition, credit risk, and trends in credit, allowance for credit losses, liquidity and sources of funding, funding costs, the impact and potential impacts of inflation, stock repurchases, dividends, and impact of interest rate changes, as well as such other items referenced in the preface of These statements are based on management's current expectations concerning future events, which by their nature are subject to risk and uncertainty.

Erik Yohe: Before we get started, please note that certain statements during today's presentation that are not statements of historical facts, including statements concerning such items as our outlook, business strategy, future plans, financial condition, credit risk and trends in credit, allowance for credit losses, liquidity and sources of funding, funding costs, the impact and potential impacts of inflation, stock repurchases, dividends, and impact of interest rate changes, as well as such other items referenced in the process of representation, are forward-looking statements. These statements are based on management's current expectations concerning future events that, by their nature, are subject to risk and uncertainties.

Erik Yohe: Thank you, operator.

Erik Yohe: Allowance for Credit Losses, Liquidity and Sources of Funding, Funding Costs, the Impact and Potential Impacts of Inflation, Stock Repurchases, Dividends, and Impact of Interest Rate Changes, as well as such other items referenced in the preface of our presentation are forward-looking statements.

Manchin: These statements are based on management's current expectations concerning future events that by their nature are subject to risk and uncertainties.

Erik Yohe: Our actual results, capital, liquidity, and financial condition made different materially from these statements due to a variety of factors, including the precautionary statements referenced in the process of representation and those included in our most recent annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC.

Erik Yohe: Our actual results, capital, liquidity, and financial condition may differ materially from these statements due to a variety of factors, including the cautionary statements referenced in the preface of our presentation and those included in our most recent annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC. Please note that the information presented is preliminary and based upon data available at this time. Except to the extent required by law, we expressly disclaim any obligation to update earlier statements as a result of new information.

Manchin: Our actual results, capital, liquidity, and financial condition may differ materially from these statements due to a variety of factors, including the precautionary statements referenced in the preface of our presentation and those included in our most recent annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC.

Erik Yohe: Please note that the information presented is preliminary and based upon data available at this time. Except to the extent required by law, we expressly display any obligation to update earlier statements as a result of new information.

Manchin: Please note that the information presented is preliminary and based upon data available at this time. Except to the extent required by law, we expressly disclaim any obligation to update earlier statements as a result of new information.

Erik Yohe: Additionally, this presentation includes certain non-GAAP measures, including tangible common equity and tangible book value per share. Reconciliation of these measures to the nearest gap measure may be found in the appendix to this presentation, which is posted on our website at ir.hilltop.com.

Manchin: Additionally, this presentation includes certain non-GAAP measures, including tangible common equity and tangible book value per share. Reconciliation of these measures to the nearest GAAP measure may be found in the appendix to this presentation, which is posted on our website at ir.hilltop.com.

Jeremy Ford: With that, I will now turn the presentation over to Hilltop, President and CEO Jeremy Ford. Thank you, Eric, and good morning. For the second quarter, Hilltop reported net income of approximately $20 million or $0.31 cents per diluted share. Return on average assets for the period was 0.6 percent, and return on average equity was 3.8 percent. Despite persistently high interest rates and an inverted yield curve, all three business segments posted profitable pre-tax operating results. Additionally, our continued emphasis on controlling funding and operating costs led to a quarter-over-quarter improvement in consolidated net interest margin and pre-provision net revenue.

Manchin: With that, I will now turn the presentation over to Hilltop President and CEO , Jeremy Ford.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Thank you, Erik, and good morning. For the second quarter, Hilltop reported net income of approximately $20 million, or $0.31 per diluted share. Return on average assets for the period was 0.6%, and return on average equity was 3.8%. Despite persistently high interest rates and an inverted yield curve, all three business segments posted profitable pre-tax operating results. Additionally, our continued emphasis on controlling funding and operating costs led to a quarter-over-quarter improvement in consolidated net interest margin and pre-provisioned net revenue.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Thank you, Erik, and good morning.

Jeremy Blue Ford: For the second quarter, Hilltop reported net income of approximately $20 million, or $0.31 per diluted share. Return on average assets for the period was 0.6%, and return on average equity was 3.8%.

Speaker Change: Despite persistently high interest rates and an inverted yield curve, all three business segments posted profitable pre-tax operating results.

Speaker Change: Additionally, our continued emphasis on controlling funding and operating costs led to a quarter-over-quarter improvement in consolidated net interest margin and pre-provisioned net revenue.

Jeremy Ford: During the quarter, Plains Capital Bank generated $33 million per pre-tax income on $12.7 billion of assets, representing a return on average assets of 0.8 percent. Average loans at the bank rose by $44 million in the quarter, primarily due to an increase in mortgage warehouse lending. However, commercial lending continues to face pressure from elevated interest rates and robust competition in our primary lending markets. Our bank will maintain a prudent approach and uphold our lending standards, which we believe could restrict loan growth in the near term. Our average deposit balance declined 2% during the quarter, primarily due to the intentional runoff of $150 million in broker deposits.

Jeremy Blue Ford: During the quarter, Plains Capital Bank generated $33 million of pre-tax income on $12.7 billion of assets, representing a return on average assets of 0.8%. Average loans at the bank rose by $44 million in the quarter, primarily due to an increase in mortgage warehouse lending. However, commercial lending continues to face pressure from elevated interest rates and robust competition in our primary lending market. Our bank will maintain a prudent approach and uphold our lending standards, which we believe could restrict loan growth in the near term.

Speaker Change: During the quarter, Plains Capital Bank generated $33 million of pre-tax income on $12.7 billion of assets, representing a return on average assets of 0.8%.

Speaker Change: Average loans at the bank rose by $44 million in the quarter, primarily due to an increase in mortgage warehouse lending. However, commercial lending continues to face pressure from elevated interest rates and robust competition in our primary lending markets.

Speaker Change: Our bank will maintain a prudent approach and uphold our lending standards, which we believe could restrict loan growth in the near term.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Our average deposit balance declined 2% during the quarter, primarily due to the intentional runoff of $150 million in broker deposits. Excluding this decline in broker deposits, we did see an increase in our average interest-pair deposits for the second straight quarter. Results in the quarter do include a provision for credit losses of $11 million, which is primarily attributable to specific reserves on two relationships that Will is going to discuss in further detail during his prepared remarks.

Speaker Change: Our average deposit balance declined 2% during the quarter, primarily due to the intentional runoff of $150 million in broker deposits.

Jeremy Ford: Excluding this decline in broker deposits, we did see an increase in our average interest-bearing deposits for the second straight quarter. Results in the quarter do include a provision for credit losses of $11 million, which is primarily attributable to specific reserves on two relationships that will is going to discuss in further detail during his prepared remarks. We are proud of the 10 basis point expansion in the bank's net interest margin from the first quarter to 3.1%, and we are encouraged by the trending of funding costs given the current rate environment. Overall, the bank performed well from a pre-previsioned net revenue perspective.

Speaker Change: Excluding this decline in broker deposits, we did see an increase in our average interest bearing deposits for the second straight quarter.

Will: Results in the quarter do include a provision for credit losses of $11 million, which is primarily attributable to specific reserves on two relationships that Will is going to discuss in further detail during his prepared remarks.

Jeremy Blue Ford: We are proud of the 10 basis point expansion in the bank's net interest margin from the first quarter to 3.1 percent, and we are encouraged by the trending of funding costs given the current rate environment. Overall, the bank performed well from a pre-provisioned net revenue perspective. Moving to prime lending,

Will: We are proud of the 10-basis point expansion in the bank's net interest margin from the first quarter to 3.1%, and we are encouraged by the trending of funding costs given the current rate environment.

Will: Overall, the bank performed well from a pre-provisioned net revenue perspective.

Jeremy Ford: Moving to prime lending, we were pleased to see the positive pre-tax results from prime lending during the quarter. Higher origination volumes during the normal buying season were encouraging, as was again on sale to third parties rate of 233 basis points, which was 12 basis points higher than in Q1. The cost-cutting measures discussed during previous quarterly reports have continued to benefit the business. Non-variable compensation and segment operating costs declined by $11 million dollars compared to the second quarter of 2023. These were difficult but necessary changes within the business, and they will serve Prime Lending well as we build a stronger franchise for the future.

Jeremy Blue Ford: We were pleased to see the positive pre-tax results from prime lending during the quarter. Higher origination volumes during the normal buying season were encouraging, as was a gain on sale to third parties rate of 233 basis points, which was 12 basis points higher than in Q1. The cost-cutting measures discussed in previous quarterly reports have continued to benefit the business.

Will: Moving to Prime Lending.

Will: We were pleased to see the positive pre-tax results from prime lending during the quarter. Higher origination volumes during the normal buying season were encouraging, as was a gain on sale to third parties rate of 233 basis points, which was 12 basis points higher than in Q1.

Will: The cost-cutting measures discussed during previous quarterly reports have continued to benefit the business. Non-variable compensation and segment operating costs declined by $11 million compared to the second quarter of 2023.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Non-variable compensation and segment operating costs declined by $11 million compared to the second quarter of 2023. These were difficult but necessary changes within the business, and they will serve Prime Lending well as we build a stronger franchise for the future. Looking forward, we believe the next few quarters will remain challenging for Prime Lending's profitability as origination volumes flow in their normal seasonal trend through the end of the year. In the second quarter, Hilltop Securities generated pre-tax income of $7 million on net revenues of $104 million, or a pre-tax margin of 7%. Speaking to the business lines at Hilltop Security.

Will: These were difficult but necessary changes within the business, and they will serve Prime Lending well as we build a stronger franchise for the future.

Jeremy Ford: Looking forward, we believe the next few quarters will remain challenging to prime lending's profitability as origination volumes flow in their normal seasonal trends through the end of the year.

Will: Looking forward, we believe the next few quarters will remain challenging to Prime Lending's profitability as origination volumes flow in their normal seasonal trends through the end of the year.

Jeremy Ford: In the second quarter, Hilltop Securities generated pre-tax income of $7 million on net revenues of $104 million dollars for a pre-tax margin of 7%. Speaking to the business lines at Hilltop Securities, public finance services experience a 3% increase in net revenues compared to last year. Revenues from municipal advisory fees increased by 24% on higher national issuance volumes, while the underwriting revenues declined by 54% from lower high yield underwriting opportunities during the period. Structured finance net revenues declined by $4.5 million from the second quarter 2023, as origination volumes were depressed in the period. Lower activity levels and housing were driven by the continued shortage of affordable home supply and higher mortgage rates.

Speaker Change: In the second quarter, Hilltop Securities generated pre-tax income of $7 million on net revenues of $104 million for a pre-tax margin of 7%.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Public finance services experienced a 3% increase in net revenues compared to last year. Revenues from municipal advisory fees increased by 24% on higher national issuance volumes, while underwriting revenues declined by 54% from lower high-yield underwriting opportunities during the period. Structured finance net revenues declined by $4.5 million from the second quarter of 2023, as origination volumes were depressed in the period. Lower activity levels in housing were driven by the continued shortage of affordable home supply and higher mortgage rates.

Speaker Change: Speaking to the business lines at Hilltop Securities.

Speaker Change: Public finance services experienced a 3% increase in net revenues compared to last year.

Speaker Change: Revenues from municipal advisory fees increased by 24% on higher national issuance volumes, while the underwriting revenues declined by 54% from lower high-yield underwriting opportunities during the period.

Speaker Change: Structured finance net revenues declined by $4.5 million from the second quarter of 2023 as origination volumes were depressed in the period.

Speaker Change: Lower activity levels in housing were driven by the continued shortage of affordable home supply and higher mortgage rates.

Jeremy Ford: Looking forward to the second half of the year, we anticipate TBA lock volumes to increase given the underlying dynamics of certain state housing clients renewing down payment assistance programs. In wealth management, net revenues declined by $2.4 million compared to last year's first quarter, as balances in our FDIC sweep program have declined. And our fixed income business remains pressured, as the shape of the yield curve continues to act as a headwind on the business. Fixed income services saw revenue declined by $5.4 million compared to last year. Overall, Hilltop's securities saw positive performance in public finance services, while net revenues decreased in the other business lines.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Looking forward to the second half of the year, we anticipate TBA lock volumes to increase given the underlying dynamics of certain state housing clients renewing down payment assistance programs. In wealth management, net revenues declined by $2.4 million compared to last year's first quarter as balances in our FDIC suite program declined. And our fixed income business remains pressured as the shape of the yield curve continues to act as a headwind on the business. Fixed income services saw revenue decline by $5.4 million compared to last year.

Speaker Change: Looking forward to the second half of the year, we anticipate TBA lock volumes to increase given the underlying dynamics of certain state housing clients renewing down payment assistance programs.

Speaker Change: In wealth management, net revenues declined by $2.4 million compared to last year's first quarter as balances in our FDIC suite program have declined.

Speaker Change: And, our fixed income business remains pressured as the shape of the yield curve continues to act as a headwind on the business.

Speaker Change: Fixed income services saw revenue decline by $5.4 million compared to last year.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Overall, Hilltop Securities saw positive performance in public finance services, while net revenues decreased in the other business lines. This highlights the firm's diverse suite of offerings to clients and ability to capitalize on opportunities as the market presents them. Moving to page four.

Speaker Change: Overall, Hilltop Securities saw positive performance in public finance services while net revenues decreased in the other business lines.

Jeremy Ford: This highlights the firm's diverse suite of offerings to clients and ability to capitalize on opportunities as the market presents them.

Speaker Change: This highlights the firm's diverse suite of offerings to clients and ability to capitalize on opportunities as the market presents them.

Jeremy Ford: Moving to page 4, Hilltop maintains robust capital levels with a common equity tier one capital ratio of 19.5%. Additionally, our tangible book fiber share increased from year in 2023 by $0.28 to $28.63. During the period, we returned $21 million to shareholders with $11 million in dividends and $10 million in share repurchases.

Jeremy Blue Ford: Hilltop maintains robust capital levels with a common equity tier one capital ratio of 19.5%. Additionally, our tangible book value per share increased from year end 2023 by $0.28 to $28.63. During the period, we returned $21 million to shareholders with $11 million in dividends and $10 million in share repurchase. Thank you. Now I'll turn it over to Will to discuss our financials in more detail.

Speaker Change: Moving to page 4.

Speaker Change: Hilltop maintains robust capital levels with a common equity Tier 1 capital ratio of 19.5%. Additionally, our tangible book value per share increased from year-end 2023 by $0.28 to $28.63.

Speaker Change: During the period, we returned $21 million to shareholders with $11 million in dividends and $10 million in share repurchases.

Will: Thank you. Now I'll turn it over to Will to discuss our financials in more detail.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Now I'll turn it over to Will to discuss our financials in more detail.

Will: Thank you, Jeremy. I'll start on page 5. As Jeremy noted, for the second quarter of 2024, Hilltop reported consolidated income attributable to common stockholders of $20.3 million, equating to $31 per fluid share.

Will: Thank you, Jeremy. I'll start on page five. As Jeremy noted, for the second quarter of 2024, Hilltop reported consolidated income attributable to common stockholders of $20.3 million, equating to 31 cents per polluted share. Quarterly results included a year-over-year decline in net interest income of 12%, which was only modestly offset by growth in non-interest revenue and a decline in non-interest expenses. Further, Hilltop did experience a net negative migration in credit quality during the period, which impacted the allowance and provision expense during the quarter. Moving to page six to review the allowance for credit loss. For more information, visit www.

Will: Thank you, Jeremy. I'll start on page 5.

Will: As Jeremy noted, for the second quarter of 2024, Hilltop reported consolidated income attributable to common stockholders of $20.3 million, equating to 31 cents per polluted share.

Will: Quarters results, including year-over-year decline in that interest income of 12%, which was only modestly offset by growth in non-interest revenue and a decline in non-interest expense expenses. Further, Hilltop did experience a net negative migration in credit quality during the period, which impacted the allowance and provision expense during the quarter. I'm moving to page 6 to review the allowance for credit losses in more detail. Hilltop's allowance for credit losses increased during the quarter by $11 million to $115 million. As is noted in the graph, specific reserves increased in a period by $7.9 million. This increase was largely driven by the downgrades of two credits in our auto-lending sub-sector of C&I to not a cruel.

Will: The quarter's results included a year-over-year decline in net interest income of 12%, which was only modestly offset by growth in non-interest revenue and a decline in non-interest expenses.

Will: Further, Hilltop did experience a net negative migration in credit quality during the period, which impacted the allowance and provision expense during the quarter.

Will: I'm moving to page 6 to review the allowance for credit losses in more detail.

Will: FEMA.gov, Hilltop's allowance for credit losses increased during the quarter by $11 million to $115 million. As noted in the graph, specific reserves increased during the period by $7.9 million. This increase was largely driven by the downgrades of two credits in our auto lending subsector of C&I to non-accrual. In both instances, the borrowers have experienced idiosyncratic issues in their businesses that have exacerbated their situations, but they have also been materially negatively impacted by higher interest rates and lower used car values over the last 12 to 18 months. Migration of these two credits contributed to the total allowance for loan loss in the period of approximately $8 million.

Bill: Hilltop's allowance for credit losses increased during the quarter by $11 million to $115 million.

Bill: As is noted in the graph, specific reserves increased in the period by $7.9 million. This increase was largely driven by the downgrades of two credits in our auto lending subsector of C&I to non-accrual.

Will: In both instances, the borrowers have experienced the use in credit issues and their businesses that have exacerbated their situations, but have also been materially negatively impacted by higher interest rates and lower-use car values over the last 12 to 18 months. Migration of these two credits increases the allowance for loan loss in the period of approximately $8 million. Currently, our loan workout team is engaging with these clients in an effort to secure additional assets from the guarantors and put in place forbearance agreements to potentially minimize future losses related to these relationships. For additional reference materials regarding our auto-lending portfolio, we have provided a slide on page 21 of this presentation that outlines the size of this portfolio, including recent trends, and the allowance coverage maintained on this portfolio as of June 30th.

Bill: In both instances, the borrowers have experienced idiosyncratic issues in their businesses that have exacerbated their situations, but have also been materially negatively impacted by higher interest rates and lower used car values over the last 12 to 18 months.

Bill: Migration of these two credits...

Bill: to increase the total allowance for loan loss in the period of approximately $8 million.

Will: Currently, our Loan Workout team is engaging with these clients in an effort to secure additional assets from the guarantors and put in place forbearance agreements to potentially minimize future losses related to these relationships. For additional reference materials regarding our auto lending portfolio, we have provided a slide on page 21 of this presentation that outlines the size of this portfolio, including recent trends, and the allowance coverage maintained on this portfolio as of June 30th.

Bill: Currently, our Loan Workout team is engaging with these clients in an effort to secure additional assets from the guarantors and put in place forbearance agreements to potentially minimize future losses related to these relationships.

Bill: For additional reference materials regarding our auto lending portfolio, we have provided a slide on page 21 of this presentation that outlines the size of this portfolio, including recent trends, and the allowance coverage maintained on this portfolio as of June 30th.

Will: In addition to the specific reserves, negative migration in the collectively assessed portfolio increased the allowance for credit losses by $3.8 million. The negative migration impacts were driven by two multifamily loans and one office property in the portfolio. These properties have either not stabilized in terms of rental absorption, or upon stabilization are not meeting key cash flow covenants. As we have in the most recent quarters, we have included in the appendix a summary of our CRE portfolio on page 20 of this presentation. As we've noted in the past, we continue to monitor the entire portfolio closely, focusing on areas that we believe may pose future risks to the bank.

Bill: In addition to the specific reserves, negative migration in the Collectively Assessed Portfolio increased the allowance for credit losses by $3.8 million.

Bill: The negative migration impacts were driven by two multifamily loans and one office property in the portfolio.

Will: These properties have either not stabilized in terms of rental absorption or, upon stabilization, are not meeting key cash flow covenants. As we have in the most recent quarters, we have included, in the appendix, a summary of our CRE portfolio on page 20 of this presentation. As we've noted in the past, we continue to monitor the entire portfolio closely, focusing on areas that we believe may pose future risk to the bank. That said, we do expect that the ongoing cash flow challenges facing existing clients, as well as new projects, driven by higher interest rates and ongoing inflation, could lead to further credit migration over time. As has been evident since the adoption of CECL,

Bill: These properties have either not stabilized in terms of rental absorption or, upon stabilization, are not meeting key cash flow covenants.

Bill: As we have in the most recent quarters, we have included in the appendix a summary of our CRE portfolio on page 20 of this presentation.

Bill: As we've noted in the past, we continue to monitor the entire portfolio closely, focusing on areas that we believe may pose future risk to the bank.

Will: That said, we do expect that the ongoing cash flow challenges facing existing clients, as well as new projects driven by higher interest rates and ongoing inflation. It could lead to further credit migration over time. As has been evident since the adoption of Cecil, ACL can be volatile as it is impacted by economic assumptions as well as changes in the mix and makeup of the credit portfolio. We continue to believe that the allowance for credit losses could be volatile and that future changes in the allowance will be driven by net loan growth in the portfolio, credit migration trends, and changes to the macroeconomic outlook over time.

Bill: That said, we do expect that the ongoing cash flow challenges facing existing clients, as well as new projects, driven by higher interest rates and ongoing inflation, could lead to further credit migration over time.

Will: ACL can be volatile as it is impacted by economic assumptions as well as changes in the mix and makeup of the credit portfolio. We continue to believe that the allowance for credit losses could be volatile and that future changes in the allowance will be driven by net loan growth in the portfolio, credit migration trends, and changes to the macroeconomic outlook over time. Given the current uncertainties regarding inflation, interest rates, the future outlook for GDP growth, and unemployment volatility could be heightened over the coming quarters, turning to page 7.

Bill: As has been evident since the adoption of CECL, ACL can be volatile as it is impacted by economic assumptions as well as changes in the mix and makeup of the credit portfolio.

Bill: We continue to believe that the allowance for credit losses could be volatile, and that future changes in the allowance will be driven by net loan growth in the portfolio, credit migration trends, and changes to the macroeconomic outlook over time.

Will: Given the current uncertainties regarding inflation, interest rates, the future outlook for GDP growth, and unemployment volatility, could be heightened over the coming quarters, turning to page 7. Net interest income can second quarter equate to $104 million, including $2 million of purchase accounting accretion. Versus the prior year second quarter, net interest income decreased by $15 million or 12 percent, driven primarily by higher yields on the profits and declining earning assets. During the second quarter, net interest margin increased versus the first quarter of 2024 by five basis points to two hundred and ninety basis points. The improvement in them was largely driven by the return of higher cost broker deposits and was somewhat offset by the impact of lower cash levels at the bank.

Bill: Given the current uncertainties regarding inflation, interest rates, the future outlook for GDP growth, and unemployment volatility could be heightened over the coming quarters.

Will: Net interest income in the second quarter equated to $104 million, including $2 million of purchase accounting accretion. Compared to the prior year, second quarter net interest income decreased by $15 million or 12%, driven primarily by higher yields on deposits and declining earning assets. During the second quarter, net interest margin increased versus the first quarter of 2024 by 5 basis points to 290 basis points. The improvement in NIM was largely driven by the return of higher-cost broker deposits, but it was somewhat offset by the impact of lower cash levels at the bank.

Bill: turning to page 7.

Bill: Net interest income in the second quarter equated to $104 million, including $2 million of purchase accounting accretion.

Bill: versus the prior year's second quarter, net interest income decreased by $15 million, or 12%, driven primarily by higher yields on deposits and declining earning assets.

Bill: During the second quarter, net interest margin increased versus the first quarter of 2024 by 5 basis points to 290 basis points.

Bill: The improvement in NIM was largely driven by the return of higher-cost broker deposits.

Bill: and was somewhat offset by the impact of lower cash levels at the bank.

Will: Our current rate outlook includes one rate decrease, which we have forecast in December of 2024. Based on this rate scenario, we expect that minimum levels will moderate at current levels, potentially drifting higher with additional rate reductions over time, starting to page 8. In the chart, we highlight the approximately $6.5 billion of available liquidity sources to Hilltop maintain as of June 30th. But we consider the Federal Reserve's discount window to be a source of liquidity. We do not plan to leverage that program under our internal liquidity modeling efforts. As such, it's noted below our other collateralized borrowing sources.

Will: Our current rate outlook includes one rate decrease. We have forecasts for December of 2024. Based on this rate scenario, we expect that NIM levels will moderate at current levels, potentially drifting higher with additional rate reductions over time. Turning to page 8.

Bill: Our current rate outlook includes one rate decrease, which we have forecast in December of 2024.

Bill: Based on this rate scenario, we expect that NIM levels will moderate at current levels, potentially drifting higher with additional rate reductions over time.

Will: In the chart, we highlight the approximately $6.5 billion of available liquidity sources that Hilltop maintained as of June 30th. While we consider the Federal Reserve's discount window to be a source of liquidity, we do not plan to leverage that program under our internal liquidity modeling effort. As such, it is noted below are other collateralized borrowing sources. Overall, collateralized liquidity sources remain very robust and are moving towards what we would deem more normal levels after the shocks which drove liquidity much higher during the COVID era.

Bill: Turning to page 8.

Bill: In the chart, we highlight the approximately $6.5 billion of available liquidity sources that Hilltop maintained as of June 30th.

Bill: While we consider the Federal Reserve's discount window to be a source of liquidity, we do not plan to leverage that program under our internal liquidity modeling efforts. As such, it's noted below our other collateralized borrowing sources.

Will: Overall, collateralized liquidity sources remain very robust and are moving towards what we would deem more normal levels after the shocks, which drove liquidity much higher during the COVID era. This is highlighted by the declining Fed deposit levels maintained on the balance sheet. As we've noted in past calls, we expected this source of liquidity will be maintained at a level between $300 and $750 million over time, or in the page 9. Second quarter, average shoulder deposit through approximately $10.4 billion and is declined by approximately $845 million, or 7% versus the second quarter of 2023. As we've noted in the past, we expected to reduce deposits from our broker dealer and return any maturing broker deposits that were brought on out of an abundance of caution when we saw certain banks were having liquidity issues last year.

Bill: Overall, collateralized liquidity sources remain very robust and are moving towards what we would deem more normal levels after the shocks which drove liquidity much higher during the COVID era.

Will: This is highlighted by the declining Fed deposit levels maintained on the balance sheet. As we've noted in past calls, we expect that this source of liquidity will be maintained at a level between $300 and $750 million over time, as shown on page 9. The second quarter average total deposit was approximately $10.4 billion and a decline by approximately $845 million or 7% versus the second quarter of 2023.

Bill: This is highlighted by the declining Fed deposit levels maintained on the balance sheet.

Bill: As we've noted in past calls, we expect that this source of liquidity will be maintained at a level between $300 million and $750 million over time.

Bill: Turn to page 9.

Bill: Second quarter average total deposit to approximately $10.4 billion and a decline by approximately $845 million or 7% versus the second quarter of 2023.

Will: We expected to reduce deposits from our broker-dealer and return any maturing brokered deposits that were brought on out of an abundance of caution when we saw certain banks were having liquidity issues last year. In the last 12 months, we've reduced broker-dealer sweep deposits by an average of $769 million, and broker deposits by an average of $341 million. Given the magnitude of these changes, we are pleased with the growth in our non-broker dealer and non-broker deposits over the past year, which approximates $280 million. However, on a linked quarter, ending balance basis, deposits declined in the second quarter by $510 million.

Bill: As we've noted in the past, we expected to reduce deposits from our broker-dealer and return any maturing broker deposits that were brought on out of an abundance of caution when we saw certain banks were having liquidity issues last year.

Will: In the last 12 months, we've reduced broker-dealer sweep deposits by an average of $769 million and broker deposits by an average of $341 million. Given the magnitude of these changes, we are pleased with the growth in our non-broker-dealer and non-broker deposits over the past year, which approximates $280 million. On a length quarter, ending balance basis, deposits declined in the second quarter by $510 million. The result of the return of 151 million of broker deposits, normal outflows related to taxes and other distributions, and additional client migrations and the treasuries and other off-mallet sheet sweep products. As a result of our ongoing pricing efforts, intersparing deposit costs remained largely stable, increasing one basis point from the first quarter levels to 359 basis points during the second quarter.

Bill: In the last 12 months, we've reduced broker-dealer sweep deposits by an average of $769 million and broker deposits by an average of $341 million.

Bill: Given the magnitude of these changes, we are pleased with the growth in our non-broker dealer and non-broker deposits over the past year, which approximates $280 million.

Bill: On a linked quarter, ending balance basis, deposits declined in the second quarter by $510 million. The result of the return of $151 million of broker deposits.

Will: The result of the return of $151 million of broker deposits, normal outflows related to taxes and other distributions, and additional client migrations into Treasuries and other off-balance sheet suite products. As a result of our ongoing pricing efforts, interest-bearing deposit costs remained largely stable, increasing one basis point from the first quarter levels to 359 basis points during the second quarter. It is our expectation that interest-bearing deposit costs will remain relatively stable at these levels but could move modestly higher driven by ongoing migration activity from our existing clients.

Bill: normal outflows related to taxes and other distributions, and additional client migrations into treasuries and other off-balance sheet sweep products.

Bill: As a result of our ongoing pricing efforts, interest-bearing deposit costs remained largely stable, increasing one basis point from the first quarter levels to 359 basis points during the second quarter.

Will: Is our expectation that intersparing deposit costs remained relatively stable at these levels that could move modestly higher, driven by ongoing migration activity from our existing clients? Further, we remain focused on mounting our competitive position with our long-term customer relationships while we continue to focus on prudent management of net interest income over time. However, the current environment remains competitive, and we expect that the intensity of competition for deposits will continue even after the Federal Reserve begins reducing short-term interest rates. Turn in the page 10. Total non-interest income for the second quarter of 2024 equated to $193 million.

Speaker Change: It is our expectation that interest-bearing deposit costs remain relatively stable at these levels but could move modestly higher driven by ongoing migration activity from our existing clients.

Will: Further, we remain focused on balancing our competitive position with our long-term customer relationships while we continue to focus on prudent management of net interest income over time. However, the current environment remains competitive, and we expect that the intensity of competition for deposits will continue even after the Federal Reserve begins reducing short-term interest rates. Turn to page 10.

Speaker Change: Further, we remain focused on balancing our competitive position with our long-term customer relationships while we continue to focus on prudent management of net interest income over time.

Speaker Change: However, the current environment remains competitive, and we expect that the intensity of competition for deposits will continue even after the Federal Reserve begins reducing short-term interest rates.

Will: Total non-interest income for the second quarter of 2024 equated to $193 million. Compared to the same period in the prior year, mortgage revenues remained relatively stable as modestly lower origination volumes were offset by improved gain on sale margin. While we believe revenues and production from the mortgage segment have stabilized at a lower level, we also feel it remains important to note the ongoing challenges in mortgage banking, whereby a combination of higher interest rates, lower home affordability, limited housing supply, and the ongoing overcapacity in terms of mortgage originators remains restrictive to the market and continues to push back a recovery in margins and production volumes in our mortgage segment.

Speaker Change: Turn to page 10.

Speaker Change: Total non-interest income for the second quarter of 2024, equated to $193 million.

Will: Versus the same period in the prior year, mortgage revenues remained relatively stable; that modestly lower origination volumes were offset by improved gain on sale margins.

Speaker Change: Versus the same period in the prior year, mortgage revenues remained relatively stable as modestly lower origination volumes were offset by improved gain on sale margins.

Will: While we believe revenues and production from the mortgage segment have stabilized at a lower level, we also feel it remains important to note the ongoing challenges in mortgage banking or by a combination of higher interest rates, lower home affordability, limited housing supply, and the ongoing overcapacity in terms of mortgage originators remains restrictive to the market and continues to push back a recovery in margins and production volumes in our mortgage segment. Other key non-interest income light items net to a small reduction versus the same period in the prior year levels and reflect a lower revenue and production from structured finance, has locked volumes and secondary gains declined versus the same period prior year, coupled with lower activity and training gains in fixed income services.

Speaker Change: While we believe revenues and production from the mortgage segment have stabilized at a lower level, we also feel it remains important to note the ongoing challenges in mortgage banking provide a combination of higher interest rates.

Speaker Change: lower home affordability, limited housing supply, and the ongoing overcapacity in terms of mortgage originators remains restrictive to the market and continues to push back a recovery in margins and production volumes in our mortgage segment.

Will: Other key non-interest income line items net to a small reduction versus same period in prior levels and reflect lower revenue and production from structured finance as lock volumes and secondary gains decline versus the same period last year, coupled with lower activity and trading gains in fixed income services. These declines were largely offset by growth in our retail and clearing services business. As we've noted in the past, it's important to recognize that both the fixed income services and structured finance businesses at Hilltop Securities can be volatile from period to period as they are impacted by interest rates, overall market liquidity, volatility, and production trends. I'm turning to page 11. Non-interest expenses decreased from the same period in the prior year by $11 million to $256.5 million.

Speaker Change: Other key non-interest income line items net to a small reduction versus the same period in the prior year levels and reflect a lower revenue and production from structured finance as lock volumes and secondary gains decline versus the same period in the prior year coupled with lower activity and trading gains in fixed income services.

Will: These declines were largely offset in the growth in our retail and clearing services businesses. As we've noted in the past, it's important to recognize that both the fixed income services and structured finance businesses at Hilltop Securities can be volatile from period to period as they are impacted by interest rates, overall market liquidity, volatility, and production trends. I'm turning to page 11. On interest expenses decreased from the same period in the prior year, I $11 million to $256.5 million. The decrease in expenses versus the prior year second quarter was driven by increases in expenses other than variable compensation, largely at prime lending or by fixed cost decline by $14.4 million to $43 million in the second quarter.

Speaker Change: These declines were largely offset by growth in our retail and clearing services businesses.

Speaker Change: As we've noted in the past, it's important to recognize that both the fixed income services and structured finance businesses at Hilltop Securities can be volatile from period to period as they're impacted by interest rates, overall market liquidity, volatility, and production trends.

Speaker Change: I'm turning to page 11.

Speaker Change: Account interest expenses decreased from the same period in the prior year by 11 million dollars to two hundred and fifty six point five million dollars.

Will: The decrease in expenses versus the prior year's second quarter was driven by decreases in expenses other than variable compensation, largely at prime lending, whereby fixed costs declined by $14.4 million to $43 million in the second quarter. This reduction largely reflects the hard work that our mortgage team has done to reposition the business for the current environment, and we believe that these levels provide us with significant support for future growth and scalability.

Speaker Change: The decrease in expenses versus the prior year's second quarter was driven by decreases in expenses other than variable compensation, largely at prime lending, whereby fixed costs declined by $14.4 million to $43 million in the second quarter.

Will: This reduction largely reflects the hard work that our mortgage team has done to reposition the business for the current environment, and we believe that these levels provide us with significant support for future growth and scalability. Looking forward, we expect the expenses other than variable compensation will remain relatively stable at current levels as we remain diligently focused on prudent growth of revenue producers while continuing to gain efficiencies across our middle and back office functions. Moving to page 12. Second quarter average, HFI loans equated to $7.9 billion. On a period ending basis, HFI loans grew versus the first quarter of 2024 by $111 million, driven largely by growth in the mortgage warehouse lending business, which experienced growth of $82 million.

Speaker Change: This reduction largely reflects the hard work that our mortgage team has done to reposition the business for the current environment, and we believe that these levels provide us with significant support for future growth and scalability.

Will: Looking forward, we expect the expenses, other than variable compensation, will remain relatively stable at current levels, as we remain diligently focused on prudent growth of revenue producers while continuing to gain efficiencies across our middle and back office functions. Moving to page 12.

Speaker Change: Looking forward, we expect the expenses other than variable compensation will remain relatively stable at current levels as we remain diligently focused on prudent growth of revenue producers while continuing to gain efficiencies across our middle and back office functions.

Will: Second quarter average HFI loans equated to $7.9 billion. On a period ending basis, HFI loans grew versus the first quarter of 2024 by $111 million, driven largely by growth in the mortgage warehouse lending business, which experienced growth of 82 million. In addition, the bank did grow its CRE lending business by $19 million in the second quarter.

Speaker Change: Moving to page 12.

Speaker Change: Second quarter average HFI loans equated to 7.9 billion dollars. On a period ending basis, HFI loans grew versus the first quarter of 2024 by 111 million dollars, driven largely by growth in mortgage warehouse lending business, which experienced growth of 82 million.

Will: In addition, the bank did grow its CRE lending business by $19 million in the second quarter.

Speaker Change: In addition, the bank did grow its CRE lending business by $19 million in the second quarter.

Will: We expect loan growth to be challenged in the second half of the year as commercial clients remain cautious, and new transactions require higher levels of equity investment before our loan facilities are accessed. Currently, we are expecting full-year average loans to remain consistent with 2023 levels, excluding mortgage warehouse lending and any retained mortgages from prime lending. Starting to page 13, starting in the upper right chart, NPA levels have increased from the first quarter of 2024 by $39 million to $109 million. This increase includes the negative migration of the two auto note finance customers that I referenced earlier in my comments.

Will: We expect loan growth to be challenged in the second half of the year as commercial clients remain cautious and new transactions require higher levels of equity investment before our loan facilities are accessed. Currently, we are expecting full-year average loans to remain consistent with 2023 levels, excluding mortgage warehouse lending and any retained mortgages from prime lending. Turning to page 13.

Speaker Change: We expect loan growth to be challenged in the second half of the year as commercial clients remain cautious and new transactions require higher levels of equity investment before our loan facilities are accessed.

Speaker Change: Currently, we are expecting full-year average loans to remain consistent with 2023 levels excluding mortgage warehouse lending and any retained mortgages from prime lending.

Will: Starting in the upper right chart, NPA levels have increased from the first quarter of 2024 by $39 million to $109 million. This increase includes the negative migration of the two AutoNote Finance customers that I referenced earlier in my comment. The impact on NPAs from these two clients is approximately $65 million.

Speaker Change: Turning to page 13.

Speaker Change: Starting in the upper right chart, NPA levels have increased from the first quarter of 2024 by $39 million to $109 million.

Speaker Change: This increase includes the negative migration of the two AutoNote Finance customers that I referenced earlier in my comments.

Will: The impact of NPAs from these two clients is approximately $65 million. Of note, on our prior call, we discussed the CRE loan that we had moved to Hill for sale during the first quarter and was being offered for sale through a prominent loan auction site. We were successful in the liquidation of this loan during the second quarter, and therefore approximately $32 million was removed from the NPA balances as of June 30. In addition, upon the final disposition of this loan, we recorded an aggregate net loss of approximately $3 million, 1.6 million of which was recorded in provision during the first quarter, and an additional $1.4 million loss that was recorded as a net valuation adjustment to loan tell for sale during the second quarter.

Speaker Change: The impact to NPAs from these two clients is approximately $65 million.

Will: Of note, on our prior call, we discussed a CRE loan that we had moved to held for sale during the first quarter and was being offered for sale through a prominent loan auction site. We were successful in the liquidation of this loan during the second quarter, and therefore, approximately $32 million was removed from the NPA balances as of June 30th. In addition, upon the final disposition of this loan, we recorded an aggregate net loss of approximately $3 million, $1.6 million of which was recorded in provision during the first quarter, and an additional $1.4 million loss that was recorded as a net valuation adjustment to loans held for sale during the second quarter.

Speaker Change: Of note, on our prior call we discussed a CRE loan that we had moved to Hill for sale during the first quarter and was being offered for sale through a prominent loan auction site.

Speaker Change: We were successful in the liquidation of this loan during the second quarter and therefore approximately $32,000,000 was removed from the NPA balances as of June 30th

Speaker Change: In addition, upon the final disposition of this loan, we recorded an aggregate net loss of approximately $3 million, $1.6 million of which was recorded in provision during the first quarter.

Speaker Change: and an additional $1.4 million loss that was recorded as a net valuation adjustment to loans held for sale during the second quarter.

Will: It is important to note that our actual net charge also remain low, with this quarter's net losses totaling less than $100,000. But we are disappointed with the net migrations in the NPA's this quarter. We will remain diligent as we remain an agar portfolio and assess new credit opportunities in the future. As is shown on the graph, at the bottom right of the page, the allowance for credit loss coverage at the bank, into the second quarter, at 1.47%, including mortgage warehouse lending.

Will: It is important to note that our actual net charge-offs remain low, with this quarter's net losses totaling less than $100,000. While we're disappointed with the net migrations in the NPAs this quarter, we will remain diligent as we manage our portfolio and assess new credit opportunities in the future. As shown on the graph at the bottom right of the page, the allowance for credit loss coverage at the bank ended the second quarter at 1.47%, including mortgage warehouse lending.

Speaker Change: It is important to note that our actual net charge-offs remain low, with this quarter's net losses totaling less than $100,000.

Speaker Change: While we are disappointed with the net migrations in the NPAs this quarter, we will remain diligent as we manage our portfolio and assess new credit opportunities in the future.

Speaker Change: As is shown on the graph, at the bottom right of the page, the allowance for credit loss coverage at the bank, into the second quarter at 1.47%, including mortgage warehouse lending.

Will: Moving to page 14, as we move into the third quarter of 2024, there continues to be a lot of uncertainty in the market regarding interest rates, inflation, and the overall health of the economy. We are pleased with the work that our team has delivered to position our company for towns like these, and our teammates across our franchise remain focused on delivering great customer service to our clients, attracting new customers to our franchise, supporting the communities where we serve, maintaining a moderate risk profile, and delivering long-term shareholder value. As is noted in the table, our current outlook for 2024 reflects our current assessment of the economy and the markets where we participate.

Will: Moving to page 14, as we move into the third quarter of 2024, there continues to be a lot of uncertainty in the market regarding interest rates, inflation, and the overall health of the economy. We are pleased with the work that our team has delivered to position our company for times like these, and our teammates across our franchise remain focused on delivering great customer service to our clients, attracting new customers to our franchise, supporting the communities where we serve, maintaining a moderate risk profile, and delivering long-term shareholder value.

Speaker Change: Moving to page 14.

Speaker Change: As we move into the third quarter of 2024, there continues to be a lot of uncertainty in the market regarding interest rates, inflation, and the overall health of the economy.

Speaker Change: We are pleased with the work that our team has delivered to position our company for times like these, and our teammates across our franchise remain focused on delivering great customer service to our clients.

Speaker Change: attracting new customers to our franchise.

Speaker Change: supporting the communities where we serve, maintaining a moderate risk profile, and delivering long-term shareholder value.

Will: As noted in the table, our current outlook for 2024 reflects our current assessment of the economy and the markets where we participate. Further, as the market changes and we adjust our business to respond, we will provide updates to our outlook on future quarterly calls. Operator, that concludes our prepared comments. We'll turn the call back to you for the Q&A section of the call.

Speaker Change: As is noted in the table, our current outlook for 2024 reflects our current assessment of the economy and the markets where we participate. Further, as the market changes and we adjust our business to respond, we will provide updates to our outlook on future quarterly calls.

Will: Further, as the market changes and we adjust our business to respond, we will provide updates to our outlook on future quarterly calls.

Operator: Operator, that concludes our prepared comments, and we'll turn the call back to you for the Q&A section of the call. And at this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question by pressing star two. Once again, to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad.

Speaker Change: Operator, that concludes our prepared comments. We'll turn the call back to you for the Q&A section of the call.

Operator: And at this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star and 1 on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question by pressing star 2. Once again, to ask a question, please press star and 1 on your telephone keypad. I will take our first question from Stephen Scouten with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead; your line is open.

Speaker Change: And at this time, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star and 1 on your telephone keypad. You may withdraw your question by pressing star 2.

Speaker Change: Once again, to ask a question, please press star and 1 on your telephone keypad.

Stephen Scouten: I will take our first question from Stephen Scouten with Biber Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker Change: I will take our first question from Stephen Scouten with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead, your line is open.

Stephen Scouten: Thank you. Good morning. Thanks, everyone.

Stephen Kendall Scouten: Good morning. Thanks, everyone.

Jeremy Ford: I guess, and I probably missed some of the prepared remarks here, but around the shift in the loan growth guidance, can you talk a little bit more about why you think that might be a little bit weaker than last quarter in the guide? I mean, it seemed like this quarter's growth was pretty strong, and seemingly this guide would imply kind of downward kind of a decline in loans for the rest of the year. So I'm just kind of curious what in particular might be driving that any paydowns and elevated paydowns or anything you expect. Well, I think, as I highlighted in my comments, the link period growth was largely driven by our mortgage warehouse lending business, which made up 85% of the overall growth, and so, as a result of that, that seasonal, obviously, the second quarter is principally the bold period for that business, no different than we see it at crime lending.

Steven Scowden: Hi, good morning. Thanks, everyone. I guess, and apologies, I missed some of the prepared remarks here. But around the shift in the loan growth guidance, can you talk a little bit more about

Speaker Change: Why you think that might be a little bit weaker than last quarter in the guide. I mean, it seemed like this quarter's growth was pretty strong and seemingly this guide would imply kind of downward

Speaker Change: kind of a decline in loans for the rest of the year. So I'm just kind of curious what, you know, what in particular might be driving that, any paydowns, elevated paydowns or anything you expect. Thanks.

Speaker Change: will, you know, I think, you know, as I highlighted in my comments, we

Stephen Kendall Scouten: I guess, and apologies, I missed some of the prepared remarks here. But around the shift in the loan growth guidance, can you talk a little bit more about why you think that might be a little bit weaker than last quarter in the guide? I mean, it seemed like this quarter's growth was pretty strong. And, seemingly, this guide would imply kind of downward pressure on the interest rates.

Speaker Change: The link period growth was largely driven by our mortgage warehouse lending business.

Will: Will, you know, I think, as I highlighted in my comments, we The link period growth was largely driven by our mortgage warehouse lending business, which made up 85% of the overall growth. And so as a result of that, that's seasonal. Obviously, the second quarter is principally the bulge period for that business, no different than we see it in crime lending. And so we expect that to, through the balance of the year, move lower as it seasonally would and as we would expect, because we don't see any kind of

Speaker Change: which, you know, made up.

Speaker Change: 85% of the overall growth. And so as a result of that, that's seasonal. Obviously, the second quarter is

Speaker Change: Principally, the bulge period for that business is no different than we see it at crime lending.

Jeremy Ford: And so we expect that to, through the balance of the year, move lower as it seasonally would and as we would expect. As we don't see a kind of an emphasis at this point for the mortgage business to break what have been historical seasonal trends, with the third, late third, and fourth quarters being softer than the primary buying season, which is, you know, second quarter and early third quarter. So that's the principal driver on the commercial side, while our pipelines are certainly up on a link quarter basis, they're down year on year. And again, I think, as we've noted previously from a lending perspective, the current structures with the current yields and pricing that's required require our customers and investors to put in additional equity and transactions, and it's simply taking them longer to burn through that and then access our overall notes.

Speaker Change: And so we expect that to, through the balance of the year, you know, move lower as it seasonally would, and as we would expect, because we don't see, we don't see a kind of a

Will: an impetus at this point for the mortgage business to break what have been historical seasonal trends with the late third and fourth quarters being softer than the primary buying season, which is the second quarter and early third quarter. That's the principal driver.

Speaker Change: We have an impetus at this point for the mortgage business to break what have been historical seasonal trends with the late third and fourth quarters being softer than the primary buying season, which is, you know, second quarter and early third quarter.

Stephen Kendall Scouten: On the commercial side, while our pipelines are certainly up on a linked quarter basis, they're down year-on-year. And again, as we've noted previously from a lending perspective, the current structures with the current yields and pricing that's required require our customers and investors to put in additional equity in the transactions, and it's simply taking them longer to burn through that and then access our overall notes. So our view is that we remain constructive on Texas as an overall market from an economic perspective, certainly relative to the national economy, but we also recognize that both structure as well as some caution around the economy are going to continue to put pressure on reducing overall loan growth.

Speaker Change: So that's the principal driver. On the commercial side, while our pipelines are certainly up on a linked quarter basis,

Speaker Change: They're down year-on-year.

Speaker Change: And again, I think, as we've noted previously, from a lending perspective,

Speaker Change: The current structures with the current yields and pricing that's required.

Speaker Change: require our customers and investors to put in additional equity in the transactions and it's simply taking them longer to burn through that and then access our overall notes. So our view is we remain constructive on Texas as an overall market from an economic perspective certainly relative to

Jeremy Ford: So our view is we remain constructive on Texas as an overall market from an economic perspective, certainly relative to the national economy, but we also recognize that both structure as well as some cautiousness around the economy are going to continue to put pressure on reducing overall long growth.

Speaker Change: the national economy, but we also recognize that both structure as well as some cautiousness around the economy are going to continue to put pressure on reducing overall loan growth.

Stephen Kendall Scouten: Got it. Okay, helpful.

Jeremy Ford: And then I guess from a capital priority perspective, can you just talk about what would be the most likely path for some of the Exodus capital that you have? I mean, I've seen bought back a little bit of stock, teach the last two quarters, but the stocks moved, you know, appreciably higher since then. So just kind of curious if that changes the priorities and then if any kind of updates on M&A conversations as a whole? Yeah, we don't have any real change in priorities at this point. And, you know, I thought we'd done well here today by returning money to shareholders through dividends and sharey versus.

Speaker Change: Got it. Okay. Helpful.

Speaker Change: And then, I guess, from a capital priority perspective, can you guys talk about what would be the most likely path for some of the excess capital that you have?

Speaker Change: Obviously bought back a little bit of stock each of the last two quarters, but the stocks moved, you know, appreciably higher since then, so just kind of curious if that changes the priorities, and then if any kind of updates on M&A conversations as a whole.

Stephen Kendall Scouten: And then, I guess from a capital priority perspective, can you guys talk about what would be the most likely path for some of the excess capital that you have? I mean, I've seen them buy back a little bit of stock each of the last two quarters, but the stocks moved, you know, appreciably higher since then. So just kind of curious if that changes the priorities, and then if there are any kind of updates on the M&A conversations as a whole.

Will: Yeah, we don't we don't have any real change in priorities at this point. And, you know, I thought we did well year to date by returning money to shareholders through dividends and share purchases. And so, and we'll be, you know, still in tune with the M&A market, which really hasn't been that active for a

Speaker Change: We don't have any real change in priorities at this point, and I thought we did pretty

Speaker Change: We've done well year-to-date by returning money to shareholders through dividends and sharing purchases, and so, and we'll be, you know, still in tune to the M&A market. It really hasn't been that active for the last two years.

Will: And so, and we'll be, you know, still in tune in the M&A market. It really hasn't been that active for the last two years. Yeah, I don't think I was going to add is as we think about capital and liquidity. We do have, as we noted in all of our documents, about $150 million of senior debt coming due in the first quarter of next year. And then another $50 million of debt that's callable. So we'll be evaluating, you know, capital and liquidity priorities kind of each quarter, actively based on, you know, where the market is pricing wise, but also with an eye toward those, those debt redemptions next year.

Will: Yes, we're out of air.

Will: The only thing I was going to add is, as we think about capital and liquidity, we do have, as we've noted in all of our documents, about $150 million of senior debt coming due in the first quarter of next year, and then another $50 million of debt that's callable. So we'll be evaluating capital and liquidity priorities kind of each quarter actively based on where the market is pricing-wise, but also with an eye toward those debt redemptions next year.

Speaker Change: ... I'm sorry.

Speaker Change: The only thing I was going to add is...

Speaker Change: As we think about capital and liquidity, we do have, as we've noted in all of our documents,

Speaker Change: About $150 million of senior debt coming due in the first quarter of next year, and then another $50 million of debt that's callable.

Speaker Change: We'll be evaluating capital and liquidity priorities each quarter actively based on where the market is pricing-wise, but also with an eye toward those debt redemptions next year.

Stephen Scouten: Okay, great. That's helpful.

Stephen Kendall Scouten: Okay, great. That's helpful. Well, and then I guess just lastly, around those, you know, like you said, Jeremy has not been acting on the M&A front, you know, obviously, with the market kind of ripping the last month or so, everybody feels a little bit better, but do you think we could see any sort of more distressed or failed deals in your markets that might allow you to be more opportunistic, or what's kind of your view for how that may transpire if you have one?

Stephen Scouten: And then I guess just lastly around those, you know, like he said, you know, I mean, I've not been acting on the M&A front. I'd, you know, obviously, with the market kind of ripping the last month or so, everybody feels a little bit better. But do you think we could see any sort of more distressed or failed deals in your markets that might allow you to be more opportunistic, or what's kind of your view for how that may transpire if you have one? Well, I think that, you know, a lot of the kind of stress that's been put on with the, with interest rates, deposit costs, and liquidity seems to be working itself out.

Will: Okay, great. That's helpful, Will. And then, I guess, just lastly, around those, you know, like you said,

Speaker Change: Jeremy has not been acting on the M&A front, you know, obviously with the market kind of ripping the last month or so, everybody feels a little bit better, but do you think we could see

Speaker Change: Any sort of more distressed or failed deals in your markets that might allow you to be more opportunistic, or what's kind of your view for how that may transpire if you have one?

Will: Well, I think that a lot of the kind of stress that's been put on with interest rates, deposit costs, and liquidity seem to be working itself out, and the only kind of distress that would arise after that could be, you know, credit, but overall, I think the Texas economy and the banking system are fairly strong right now, so I don't think there's a lot of immediate stress in the market.

Speaker Change: Well, I think...

Speaker Change: The stress that's been put on with the interest rates, the deposit costs, and liquidity seems to be...

Stephen Scouten: And, you know, only kind of distress that would arise after that could be, you know, credit. But overall, you know, I think the Texas economy and, you know, the banking system is fairly strong right now. So, I don't, there's not, you know, a lot of immediate stress in the market. Got it.

Speaker Change: working itself out, and the only kind of distress that would arise after that could be, you know, credit, but overall, you know, I think the Texas economy and, you know, the banking system is fairly strong right now, so...

Speaker Change: I don't, there's not a lot of immediate stress in the market.

Stephen Kendall Scouten: Got it. It makes a lot of sense.

Stephen Scouten: Makes all the sense. Okay.

Stephen Scouten: Thanks, guys, for the time of the color. Appreciate it. Yeah.

Stephen Kendall Scouten: Okay. Thanks, guys, for the time on the call. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Woody Lay: Thank you. Next question comes from Woody Lay with KBW. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Got it. Makes a lot of sense. Okay, thanks guys for the time and the co-op. Appreciate it.

Operator: Your next question comes from Woody Lay with KBW. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Your next question comes from Woody Lay with KBW. Please go ahead.

Woody Lay: Hey, good morning, guys. Good morning. Looks like non-interest bearing deposits were down a little bit in the quarter. Just any color you could give on what you saw in the deposit front during the quarter. Were there any seasonality behind that? Yeah, so we, well, I mean, I think what we've seen, you know, as a trajectory matter, is that customers who have excess cash are looking to find places they can put that money to work in interest-bearing accounts. So we've seen a lot of customers move dollars into our money market products, into our sweet products and the like.

Wood Neblett Lay: It looked like non-interest-bearing deposits were down a little bit in the quarter. Just any color you could give on what you saw on the deposit front during the quarter. Was there any seasonality behind that?

Wood Neblett Lay: Hey, good morning, guys.

Wood Neblett Lay: Good morning.

Wood Neblett Lay: It looked like non-interest bearing deposits were down a little bit in the quarter. Just any color you could give on what you saw on the deposit front during the quarter. Was there any seasonality behind that?

Will: Yeah, so we, well, I mean, I think what we've seen, you know, as a trajectory matter is that customers who have excess cash are looking to find places they can put that money to work in interest-bearing accounts. So we've seen a lot of customers move dollars into our money market products, into our sweet products, and the like. So, some of that certainly exists. Seasonally for Q2, though, it is not uncommon for us to see between tax payments and other distributions, whether that be customer dividends or otherwise; it is not uncommon for us to see a couple hundred million dollars move out of non-interest bearing during the period.

Speaker Change: Yeah, so we, well, I mean, I think what we've seen, you know, as a trajectory matter is that customers who have excess cash are looking to find places they can put that money to work in interest-bearing accounts. So we've seen a lot of customers move dollars into our money market products, into our sweep products.

Will: So some of that certainly exists. The seasonally for Q2, though, it is not uncommon for us to see between tax payments and other distributions, whether that be customer dividends or otherwise. It is not uncommon for us to see a couple hundred million dollars move out of non-interest bearing in the period. So there's certainly a seasonal impact given the tax season and other kind of just net normal distributions, but I would say the permailing trend that is customers continue to search for higher yielding and safe products, but I'd say readily accessible products. As they look at, I'd say net operating funds is still alive and well, and customers continue to do that every day.

Speaker Change: and the like, so some of that certainly exists.

Speaker Change: Seasonally, for Q2, though, it is not uncommon for us to see

Speaker Change: between tax payments and other distributions, whether that be customer dividends or otherwise.

Speaker Change: It is not uncommon for us to see a couple hundred million dollars move out of non-interest bearing in the period. So, there's certainly a seasonal impact given the tax season and other kind of normal distributions, but I would say...

Will: So there's certainly a seasonal impact given the tax season and other kind of just net normal distributions, but I would say the prevailing trend that is customers continue to search for higher yielding and safe products, but I'd say readily accessible products as they look at, I'd say, net operating funds, is still alive and well and customers continue to do that every day, so we're We believe non-interest bearing deposits likely drift lower over the next 6-12 months if rates remain elevated and the Fed doesn't completely reverse course.

Speaker Change: The prevailing trend, that is, customers continue to search for higher yielding and safe products, but I'd say readily accessible products as they look at, I'd say, net operating funds.

Will: So we believe non-interest bearing deposits likely to risk lower over the next six to 12 months if rates remain elevated and that doesn't completely reverse course.

Speaker Change: is still alive and well and customers continue to do that every day so we're we're we believe non-interest bearing deposits likely drift lower over the next you know six to twelve months if if rates remain elevated and the Fed doesn't completely reverse course.

Woody Lay: Yeah, that's helpful.

Wood Neblett Lay: Yeah, that's helpful. And then just historically, I've sort of thought of the core bank as asset sensitive, but it sounds like, just given some of those dynamics, you might be a little bit more liability sensitive now?

Woody Lay: And then just historically, I sort of thought of the core bank as asset sensitive, but it sounds like just giving some of those dynamics y'all think y'all might be a little bit more liability sensitive now. Well, you know, we said this, we said this in the past, we had peaked out, you know, about about 18 months ago at 12% as a sensitive on a shock basis on a shock balance sheet. 100 basis point move, that's moved to about 5%. We expect to move that into the, you know, 2 to 4% level. So we're, we still on a shock basis static balance sheet are modestly at that sensitive, but to your point, we've worked very diligently and positioned a balance sheet to be, but we would need to be more neutral.

Speaker Change: Yeah, that's helpful. And then just historically, I've sort of thought of the core bank as asset-sensitive, but it sounds like just given some of those dynamics, y'all think y'all might be a little bit more liability-sensitive now.

Will: Well, you know, we've said this in the past, we had peaked out, you know, about 18 months ago at 12% asset sensitive on a shock basis, on a shock balance sheet, a 100 basis point move. That's moved to about 5% now. We expect to move that into the, you know, 2 to 4% level, so we're still, on a shock basis, our static balance sheet is modestly asset sensitive, but to your point, we've worked very diligently and positioned the balance sheet to be what we would deem to be more neutral, so as rates, as rates decline, we'd like to think we've done a lot of things to help protect our harbor, our I'd expect you to see us move a little closer to neutral and then hold it from there.

Speaker Change: Well, you know, we've said this in the past, we had peaked out, you know, about 18 months ago at 12% as a sensitive on a shock basis, on a shock balance sheet.

Speaker Change: That's moved to about 5%. We expect to move that into the fall.

Speaker Change: We're still on a shock basis. Static balance sheets are modestly asset sensitive, but to your point, we've worked very diligently and positioned the balance sheet to be what we would deem to be more neutral so as rates are more stable.

Will: So, as rates decline, we'd like to think we've done a lot of things to help protect our hardware and ii over time, and we'll continue to do some of that. But again, we won't move likely to a full liability sensitive position. I'd expect you to see us move to a little closer to neutral and then hold from there.

Speaker Change: As rates decline, we'd like to think we've done a lot of things to help protect.

Speaker Change: our harbor, our NII over time, and we'll continue to do some of that. But again, we won't move likely to a full liability-sensitive position. I'd expect you to see us move to a little closer to neutral and then hold it from there.

Will: Got it. And then lastly, if I look at the non-owner occupied office portfolio that you include in the appendix, it was like the ACL on those loans was down in the quarter. Just any color on sort of what drove that decrease. Yeah, we had, we had a few credits, but one significant one that hadn't stabilized as of 3/31 got stabilized as of 6/30 and started and kind of reached cash flow.

Wood Neblett Lay: Got it. And then lastly, if I look at the non-owner occupied office portfolio that you include in the appendix, it looks like the ACL on those loans was down in the quarter. Any color on sort of what drove that decrease?

Speaker Change: Got it. And then lastly, if I look at the non-owner occupied office portfolio that you include in the appendix, it looks like the ACL on those loans was down in the quarter. Just any color on sort of what drove that decrease?

Will: Yeah, we had a few credits, but one significant one that hadn't stabilized as of 3-31 got stabilized as of 6--30, and started and kind of reached cash flow. We're monitoring these credits pretty closely, so they had reached stabilization and started to achieve and exceed their overall covenant level, so that allowed them to be upgraded. That's really the nature of that change.

Speaker Change: Yeah, we had we had a few credits but one one significant one that was

Speaker Change: hadn't stabilized as of 3.31, got stabilized as of 6.30, and started and kind of reached cash flow. We're monitoring these credits pretty closely, so had reached stabilization and started to achieve and exceed their overall covenant levels, so that allowed them to be upgraded.

Will: We're monitoring these credits pretty closely. So had reached stabilization and and and started to achieve and exceed their overall covenant level. So that allowed them to be upgraded. That's really the nature of that change.

Woody Lay: All right. Thanks for taking my questions.

Wood Neblett Lay: Alright, thanks for taking my questions.

Speaker Change: That's really the nature of that change.

Speaker Change: All right, thanks for taking my questions.

Michael Rose: Our next question comes from Michael Rose with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Operator: Our next question comes from Michael Rose with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Michael Rose with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Michael Rose: Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. Hey, well, I just wanted to get some color around the guidance for deposits on a full year basis to be down 0 to 3%. I guess that's excluding the broker in the sweep deposits, but it just seems like it's a fairly big lift just based on where total deposits were at the quarter. So can you provide some color as to, you know, the pieces, the core book and then what should expect on the sweep to kind of get to that 0 to 3% how we should maybe think about, you know, average deposits holistically altogether.

Michael Edward Rose: Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. Hey, Will, I just wanted to get some color around the guidance for deposits on a full-year basis to be down 0% to 3%. I guess that's excluding the brokered and the sweep deposits, but it just seems like it's a fairly big lift just based on where total deposits were in the quarter. So can you just provide some color as to the pieces, the core book, and then what you'd expect on the sweep to kind of get to that 0% or 3% and how we should maybe be thinking about average deposits holistically altogether? Thank you. Yeah, so I

Michael Edward Rose: Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for...

Michael Edward Rose: Taking my questions. Hey, well, I just wanted to get some color around the

Speaker Change: the guidance for deposits on a full-year basis to be down 0-3%.

Speaker Change: I guess that's, you know, excluding, you know, the brokered and the sweeped deposits. But, you know, it just seems like it's a fairly big lift just based on where total deposits were.

Speaker Change: at the quarter. So can you provide some color as to, you know, the pieces, the core book, and then what you'd expect on the sweep to kind of get to that 0-3%, how we should maybe think about, you know, average deposits holistically all together. Thanks.

Will: Thanks.

Will: Yeah. So I think I think as we think about sweep, which is an averaging about 750 million dollars for the last couple of quarters. We expect that's going to remain consistent. So I don't I don't see a lot of activity there. We have exited, as we noted virtually all of our broker deposits. So the last 150, 151 million dollars was returned in the second quarter. And so as we look at the positive growth, the trends, the positive trends we're seeing are in our money market, money market products, some of our other interest bearing product CDs have been stable to, able to slightly up.

Will: Yeah, so I think as we think about, as you think about sweep, which has been averaging about $750 million for the last couple of quarters, we expect that's going to remain consistent. So, I don't see a lot of activity there. We have exited, as we noted, virtually all of our broker deposits of the last $150, $151 million were returned in the second quarter. And so, as we look at deposit growth, the positive trends we're seeing are in our money market products.

Speaker Change: Yes, so I think

Speaker Change: I think if we think about, if you think about sweep, which is, you know, been averaging about $750 million.

Speaker Change: for the last couple of quarters. We expect that's going to remain consistent, so I don't see a lot of activity there. We have exited, as we noted, virtually all of our brokered deposits of the last $150-$151 million.

Speaker Change: was returned in the second quarter. And so as we look at deposit growth, the positive trends we're seeing are in our money market products. Some of our other interest bearing products, CDs have been able to go slightly up.

Will: And so, you know, as we think about in IB, we're not, as we were evaluating, we're not seeing customer loss; what we're continuing to see is migration to and from. And so, as we think about the overall growth profile of the business, we are seeing, as I mentioned, about we've had about 280 million dollars of growth year on year in that non-broker non-broker dealer area. And we continue to expect to see that type of growth in our core. And you know, which excludes those two items for the balance of the year.

Will: Some of our other interest-bearing products, CDs, have been stable to slightly up. And so, you know, as we think about NIV, we're not, as we are evaluating, we're not seeing customer loss. What we're continuing to see is migration to and from. And so, as we think about the overall growth profile of the business, we are seeing, as I mentioned, about $280 million of growth year on year in that non-brokered, non-broker dealer area.

Speaker Change: And so, you know, as we think about NIV, we're not, as we were evaluating, we're not seeing customer loss.

Speaker Change: What we're continuing to see is migration to and from, and so as we think about the overall growth profile of the business, we are seeing, as I mentioned, we've had about $280 million of growth year-on-year in that non-brokered dealer area, and we continue to expect to see that type of growth in our core,

Will: And we continue to expect to see that type of growth in our core, you know, which excludes those two items for the balance of the year. But again, it's going to continue to be challenged only by, I'd say, non-interest bearing and the potential rundown in that space.

Michael Rose: But again, it's going to continue to be challenged only by, I'd say, non interest bearing and the potential rundown in that space. Okay, yeah, it's just because like if I kind of look at where the second quarter average deposits were for the first half of the year versus the whole year, I mean you're about 600 million less, and it just seems to get to down just year to 3%. It implies pretty big growth, so that's what I was trying to kind of really reconcile. So the way we've got it on a kind of year-to-date average basis, to your point, down aggregate just under 600 million dollars.

Speaker Change: which excludes those two items for the balance of the year, but again, it's going to continue to be challenged only by, I'd say, non-interest bearing and the potential rundown in that space.

Michael Edward Rose: Okay, yeah, it's just because, if I kind of look at where the second quarter average deposits were for the first half of the year versus the full year, I mean, you're about 600 million less, and it just seems to get down just zero to 3%. It's, it implies pretty big growth. So that's what I was trying to kind of really reconcile.

Speaker Change: Okay yeah it's just because like if I kind of look at where the second quarter

Speaker Change: average deposits were for the first half of the year versus the full year. I mean you're about 600 million less and it just seems to get to down just zero to three percent. It's a it implies pretty big growth so that's what I was trying to kind of really reconcile.

Will: Yeah, so the way we've got it on a year-to-date average balance basis, to your point, down aggregate just under $600 million. When we have a just for, if you will, the sweep deposits and the broker deposits, the sweep deposits of that near $600 million are $575 million of that. You know, our core bank deposits are actually up just modestly on a full-year average basis to about $160 million, and that's really what we're trying to measure in our guide.

Speaker Change: Yeah, so the way we've got it on a kind of year-to-date average balance basis, to your point, down aggregate, just under $600 million.

Will: So if we, when we have a just for, if you will, the sweep deposits and the broker deposits, the sweep deposits of that near 600 million is $575 million of that. So, you know, our core bank deposits are actually up just modestly on a full year average basis at about $160 million, and that's really what we're trying to measure in our guide.

Speaker Change: And if I, when we have a just for, if you will, the sweep deposits and the broker deposits, the sweep deposits of that near $600 million is $575 million of that. So,

Speaker Change: You know, our core bank deposits are actually up just modestly on a full-year average basis at about 160 of about 160 million dollars And that's really what we're trying to measure in our guide

Michael Rose: Got it. Very helpful, I appreciate that, and then just move into the auto slide on 21. So it says I think there's four relationships, and I think two were the culprit this quarter and moving.

Michael Edward Rose: I got it. Very helpful. I appreciate that. And then just moving to the auto slide on number 21. So it says there are four relationships, and I think two were the culprits this quarter and moved in. I know you said there were some idiosyncratic events, but can you just kind of give some color around that and maybe some of the credit statistics, FICO scores, portfolios, like a subprime portfolio, and just trying to better understand how long you guys have been in this business, why these credits have migrated, and just some background to the extent that you can provide it. Yeah,

Speaker Change: Got it. Very helpful. I appreciate that.

Speaker Change: to the auto slide on 21.

Speaker Change: So it says, I think there's four relationships.

Will: I know you said there were some idiosyncratic events, but he's going to give some color around that and maybe some of the credit statistics like those courses portfolio is just like a sub prime portfolio and just trying to better understand, you know, how long you guys have been in this business, why these credits have migrated and just some just some background to the extent that you can provide it. Yeah, so I think, you know, what we try to note here is there are four auto no financial relationships that total at 69 million that are in non accrual.

Speaker Change: And I think two were the culprit this quarter and moved in. I know you said there were some idiosyncratic events, but can you just kind of give some color around that and maybe some of the credit statistics, FICO scores, portfolios, it's like a subprime portfolio.

Speaker Change: and just trying to better understand, you know, how long you guys have been in this business, why these credits, you know, have migrated and, you know, just some background to the extent that you can provide it.

Will: Yeah, so I think, you know, what we try to note here is there are four auto note financial relationships that total $69 million that are in non-accruals. So that's the, you know, of the non-accrual balance. We just wanted to provide some perspective.

Speaker Change: Yeah, so I think, you know, what we try to note here is there are four auto note financial relationships that total at $69 million that are in non-accrual. So that's the, you know, of the non-accrual balance, we just wanted to provide some perspective. This is a meaningful balance.

Will: So that's the, you know, of the non-accrual balance we just wanted to provide some perspective. This is a meaningful swath of it, and, you know, 65 million dollars of that was made up of these two relationships that we noted. I'd say we've seen, and you can see in the chart there in the upper left, it's been a priority to kind of reduce this business over time as we've been monitoring the used car value market. Obviously, used car values. So these spike higher during what we call the COVID era had started to retrace, and it retraced at a pretty, pretty abrupt pace.

Will: This is a meaningful swath of it, and, you know, $65 million of that was made up of these two relationships that we noted. I'd say we've seen, and you can see in the chart there in the upper left, it's been a priority to kind of reduce this business over time as we've been monitoring. The used car value market, obviously used car values spiked higher during what we call the COVID era, had started to retrace, and it retraced at a pretty abrupt pace.

Speaker Change: swap of it and you know 65 million dollars of that was made up of these

Speaker Change: I'd say we've seen, and you can see in the chart there in the upper left, it's been a priority to kind of reduce this business over time as we've been monitoring.

Speaker Change: The used car used car value market obviously used car values.

Speaker Change: Spiked higher during what we call the COVID era, had started to retrace and it retraced at a pretty pretty abrupt pace So it's been our objective to reduce our exposure to this and you can see we've we've done that Obviously that the two credits that were that are most impacted us here in this quarter

Will: So it's been our objective to reduce our exposure to this, and you can see we've done that. Obviously the two credits that are most impacted us here in this quarter, we had seen and were experiencing challenges from higher rates and lower overall values, but again, can't really go into the specifics of the credits individually, but again, they did have some interesting credit items that caused them to, certainly the situations to be exacerbated and likely accelerated, but I don't want to take that away from the fact that higher interest rates and declined used car values continue to be probably the most pressing overarching issue and the reason we've been reducing exposure to this portfolio over time.

Will: So it's been our objective to reduce our exposure to this, and you can see we've done that. Obviously, the two credits that were that are most impacted us here in this quarter. You know, we had seen and we're experiencing challenges from higher rates and lower overall values. But again, can't really go into the specifics of the credits individually, but again, they did have some videos and credit items that caused them to certainly exacerbate the situations and likely accelerated. But I don't want to take that away from the fact that higher interest rates in the client use car values continue to be probably the most pressing overarching issue and the reason we've been reducing exposure to this portfolio over time.

Speaker Change: You know, we had seen and were experiencing challenges from higher rates.

Speaker Change: and lower overall values, but again, can't really go into the specifics of the credits individually, but again, they did have some idiosyncratic items that...

Speaker Change: We've had a number of issues with the car market that have caused them to, certainly the situations to be exacerbated and likely accelerated. But I don't want to take that away from the fact that higher interest rates and declined used car values continue to be probably the most pressing overarching issue and the reason we've...

Will: You know, for one of the credits that we're talking about, we've been banking that customer for over 20 years. And so, you know, and the other we've been banking for near 13 or 14 years. So these are not new relationships; these aren't businesses we just got into.

Speaker Change: We've been reducing exposure to this portfolio over time. For one of the credits that we're talking about, we've been banking that customer for over 20 years. And the other, we've been banking for near 13 or 14 years. So these aren't new relationships. These aren't businesses we just got into. But it is an exposure now that we're intending to continue to accelerate the reduction.

Will: You know, for one of the loans that we're talking about, we've been banking that customer for over 20 years. And so, you know, and the other, we've been banking for near 13 or 14 years. So these are not, these aren't new relationships, these aren't businesses we just got into, but it is an exposure now that we're intending to continue to accelerate the reduction of our exposure in it, given the nature of the kind of credit profile as we sit here today.

Will: But it is an exposure now that we're intending to continue to accelerate the reduction of our exposure in it, given the nature of the kind of credit profiles we sit here today.

Speaker Change: of our exposure in it, given the nature of the kind of credit profile as we sit here today.

Michael Rose: I appreciate that color well.

Michael Edward Rose: I appreciate that, Collar, and Will. And if I could just sneak one last one in on mortgage, you know, it's been nice to see the progression the past two quarters on the gain on sale, you know, margin. Just, you know, either Jeremy or Will, if you can just remind us, you know, as rates, you know, assume they come down a few times and mortgage rates, you know, come down, I would assume that gain on sale margin would move up. But can you just remind us some of the mechanics there and any considerations we should be thinking about over the next couple quarters? Thank you.

Will: And if I could just sneak one last one in on mortgage, it's been nice to see the progression in the past two quarters on the gain on sale margin. Just either Jeremy or Will, if you can just remind us as rates, assuming they come down a few times and mortgage rates come down, I would assume that gain on sale margin would move up. But can you just remind us some of the mechanics there and any considerations we should be thinking about over the next couple of quarters. Thanks. So, from a, from a gain on sale perspective, you're right historically as rates have come down and overall volume in the market largely driven by refinance market would increase.

Speaker Change: I appreciate that caller well and if I could just sneak one last one in on mortgage you know it's been nice to see the progression the past two quarters on the gain on sale you know margin just

Speaker Change: You know, either Jeremy or Will, if you can just remind us.

Speaker Change: You know, as rates, you know, assuming they come down a few times and mortgage rates, you know, come down I would assume that gain on sale margin would

Speaker Change: would move up. But can you just remind us some of the mechanics there and any considerations we should be thinking about over the next couple quarters? Thanks.

Will: So, from a gain-on-sale perspective, you're right, historically, as rates have come down and overall volume in the market, largely driven by the refinance market, would increase, you would see gain-on-sale margins increase. I do highlight, and I want to highlight the balance that we show on our prime lending slide because I do think it's important between the two revenue components.

Speaker Change: So, from a gain-on-sale perspective, you're right. Historically, as rates have come down, an overall volume in the market, largely driven by refinance market, would increase. You would see gain-on-sale margins increase. I do highlight, and I want to highlight the balance.

Will: You would see gain on sale margins increase.

Will: I do highlight and I want to highlight the balance that we show on our prime lending slides because I do think it's important between the two revenue components. On page 18, you can see on a link quarter basis, gain on sale was up 12 basis points, but origination mortgage loan origination fees were down, you know, 13 basis points. And so the way to, the way to think through that is customers as rates have gone above 7% at different times that seems to have been the demarcation line where customers have made the decision they want to buy down rate.

Speaker Change: that we show on our prime lending slide because I do think it's important between the two revenue components. So on page 18, you can see...

Will: So, on page 18, you can see on a late-quarter basis, gain-on-sale was up 12 basis points, but origination, mortgage loan origination fees were down, you know, 13 basis points. And so, the way to think through that is customers, as rates have gone above 7% at different times, that seems to have been the demarcation line where customers have made the decision they want to buy down rates. And so, we would see those levels of origination fees increase and potentially gain-on-sale drop lower.

Speaker Change: on a late quarter basis.

Speaker Change: Gain on sale was up 12 basis points, but...

Speaker Change: origination, mortgage loan origination fees were down, you know, 13 basis points. And so the way to, the way to think through that is, customers, as rates have gone above 7% at different times.

Speaker Change: That seems to have been the demarcation line where customers...

Will: And so we would see, we would see those levels of origination fees increase and potentially gain on sale drop lower as it's move lower. As rates have moved lower, gain on sale takes higher for the origination fees then moderate. So overall, kind of aggregate revenue in that 365 to 380 basis point range has been what we've seen more consistently on an aggregate basis. And so that's what we'd expect.

Speaker Change: have made the decision they want a buy-down rate, and so we would see...

Speaker Change: We would see those levels of origination fees increase and potentially gain-on-sale drop lower as it's moved lower, as rates have moved lower, the gain-on-sale ticks higher, but the origination fees...

Will: As it's moved lower, as rates have moved lower, gain-on-sale ticks higher, but the origination fees then moderate. So, overall kind of aggregate revenue in that 365 to 380 basis point range has been what we've seen more consistently on an aggregate basis. And so, that's what we'd expect. But I think the paradigm has shifted from what I would call historical normal trends because of the long period of rates at zero. So, if you will, that locked-in effect for customers. So, there's...

Speaker Change: [inaudible]

Will: I think that the paradigm has shifted from what I would call historical normal trends because of the long period of rates at zero. So if you will, that locked-in effect for customers. So there's, there's the largest block of customers have rate have mortgages under 5%. So the first 25 basis points, even the first 100 basis points of reduction by the Fed, we don't actually see or aren't actually projecting internally that we're going to have a material rebound in refinance activity. It will improve because there's obviously folks that have put loans on here in the 7th and, to some extent, even the 8th.

Speaker Change: And so that's what we'd expect.

Speaker Change: I think the paradigm has shifted from what I would call historical normal trends because of the long period of rates at zero, so if you will, that locked-in effect for customers.

Will: There's the largest block of customers have rates have mortgages under 5%. So the first 25 basis points, even the first 100 basis points of reduction by the Fed, we don't actually see or aren't actually projecting internally that we're going to have a material rebound in refinance activity. It will improve because there are obviously folks that have put loans on here in the sevens and, to some extent, even the eights. But we do expect that it will have a muted impact on what you would have seen under the normal course of a rate reduction cycle until the Fed until and at which point the Fed were to move, you know, a couple 100 basis points from here to start to bring some of those mortgages that were originated through the up cycle into

Speaker Change: There's a there's the largest block of customers have rate have mortgages under 5% So the first 25 basis points even the first hundred basis points

Speaker Change: [inaudible]

Will: But we do expect that it to be a muted impact on what you would have seen under the normal course of a rate reduction cycle until the Fed, until and in which point the Fed were to move, you know, a couple 100 basis points from here to start to bring some of those mortgages that were originated through the up cycle into the money.

Speaker Change: But we do expect

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Michael Edward Rose: Very thorough answer. Well, thank you for all the color. I appreciate it. Our next question comes from Jordan Gent with Stevens. Please go ahead. Hey, good morning.

Michael Rose: Very thorough answer.

Michael Rose: Well, thanks, thanks for all the color. Appreciate it.

Jordan Gent: Sir. Our next question comes from Jordan Gent with Stevens.

Speaker Change: Very thorough answer. Well, thank you for all the color. Appreciate it.

Operator: Our next question comes from Jordan Gent with Stevens. Please go ahead. Hey, good morning. Um, I just had one question on

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Jordan Gent: Please go ahead. Hey, good morning. I just had one question on the NII guidance, actually. It moved down the guidance, and but there's still that kind of significant range of the 6th to 10%. And we're already halfway through the year. Could you maybe walk us through the what you're seeing as like the variable for that? Thanks. Yeah. So you know, as we've said historically, you know, evaluating the midpoint of the range is generally a pretty good spot to evaluate. So that, you know, even though the range is wide, that's still a reasonable way to think about our position.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Jordan Gent with Stevens. Please go ahead.

Jordan Gent: Hey, good morning. I just had one question on the NII guidance, actually.

Jordan Gent: move down the guidance, but there's still that kind of significant range of the six to ten percent, and we're already halfway through the year. Could you maybe walk us through what you're seeing as like the variable for that? Thanks.

Jordan Gent: Yeah, so, as we've said, historically, the midpoint of the range is generally a pretty good spot to evaluate so that, you know, even though the range is wide, that's still a reasonable way to think about it. In our position, the big drivers of overall NII continue to be the repricing of deposits. So the reason it's as wide as it is is that basis.

Speaker Change: Yes, so, you know, as we've said historically, you know, the, you know, evaluating the midpoint of the range is generally a pretty good spot to evaluate so that, you know, even though the range is wide, that's still a reasonable way to think about.

Will: The big drivers to overall and I continue to be the repricing of the positive. So the reason it's as wide as it is, is that basis. So as I noted in my comments, we've only saw a one basis point increase in interest bearing deposit costs in the period, which is encouraging that we've reached the peak. If, for some reason, there were, you know, the market's got more competitive and moved that higher.

Speaker Change: Our position, the big drivers to overall NII continue to be the repricing of deposits, so the reason it's

Will: So, as I noted in my comments, we only saw a one basis point increase in interest-bearing deposit costs during the period, which is encouraging that we've reached the peak. If, for some reason, the markets got more competitive and moved that higher, obviously, we'd be at the lower end of the guidance. And if they remain stable, we would be toward the middle. And then obviously, if, for whatever reason, we were able to reduce deposit costs more aggressively based on Fed reductions or otherwise, we would probably be toward the higher end of the range.

Speaker Change: As wide as it is, is that basis. So as I noted in my comments, we only saw a one basis point increase in interest-bearing deposit costs in the period, which is encouraging.

Speaker Change: that we've reached the peak. If, for some reason, the markets got more competitive and moved that higher, obviously we'd be at the lower end of the guidance.

Will: Obviously, we'd be at the lower end of the guidance, and then if they remain stable, we'd be toward the middle, and then obviously, for whatever reason, we were able to reduce deposit costs more aggressively based on Fed reductions or the otherwise, we would probably be toward the higher end of the range. So from our perspective, the deposit costs continue to be the largest and most impactful driver of our overall in eye-out look and really the most variable component. And again, we're just, we try to put forth the reasonable scenarios that we could see in our guidance.

Speaker Change: And then if they remain stable, we'd be toward the middle, and then obviously, if for whatever reason we were able to reduce deposit costs more aggressively based on Fed reductions or the otherwise, we would probably be toward the higher end of the range. So from our perspective, deposit costs continue to be...

Will: So from our perspective, deposit costs continue to be the largest and most impactful driver of our overall NII outlook and really the most variable component. And again, we just try to put forth the reasonable scenarios that we could see in our guidance. But again, historically, the midpoint is a good place to evaluate.

Speaker Change: the largest and most impactful driver of our overall NII outlook and really the most variable component.

Speaker Change: And again, we're just, we try to put forth the reasonable scenarios that we could see in our guidance, but again, historically, the midpoint is a good place to evaluate.

Will: But again, historically, the midpoint is a good place to evaluate.

Operator: Thank you, and this was concluded the Q&A session as well as the Hilltop Holdings 2nd quarter, 2024 earnings conference call and a webcast. Thank you for your participation, and you may disconnect at any time. .

Speaker Change: Perfect, thank you.

Operator: Thank you, and this does conclude the Q&A session as well as the Hilltop Holdings second quarter 2024 earnings conference call and webcast. Thank you for your participation, and you may disconnect at any time.

Speaker Change: Bye.

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Speaker Change: Thank you. And this does conclude the Q&A session, as well as the Hilltop Holdings second quarter 2024 earnings conference call and webcast. Thank you for your participation, and you may disconnect at any time.

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Speaker Change: www.HilltopHoldings.com

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