Q3 2024 CNX Resources Corp Earnings Call
Unknown Executive: Hello and welcome to the CNX Resources 3rd quarter 2024 Q&A conference call. All participants will be in list and only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero.
Unknown Executive: Hello and welcome to the CNX Resources third quarter 2024 Q&A conference call. All participants will be in listen only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero.
Hello, and welcome to the C. O next resources third quarter 2020 for Q&A Conference call all participants will be in listen only mode.
Should you need assistance. Please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero.
Unknown Executive: After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on your telephone keypad, and to withdraw from the question queue, please press star, then 2. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Unknown Executive: After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on your telephone keypad, and to withdraw from the question queue, please press star, then two. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
After todays presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions.
To ask a question you May press Star then one on your telephone keypad and you withdraw from the question queue. Please press Star then two.
As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Tyler Lewis: I would now like to hand the call to Tyler Lewis, Vice President of Investor Relations.
Tyler Lewis: I would now like to hand the call to Tyler Lewis, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: I would now like to hand, the call to Tyler Lewis Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Tyler Lewis: Thank you and good morning, everybody. Welcome to CNX's 3rd quarter Q&A conference call. Today, we will be answering questions related to our 3rd quarter results. This morning, we posted to our Investor Relations website and updated slide presentation in detail. 3rd quarter earnings release data, such as quarterly E&P data, financial statements and non-GAAP reconciliation, which can be found in a document titled 3Q 2024 earnings results and supplemental information of CNX Resources. Also, we posted to our Investor Relations website our prepared remarks for the quarter, which we hope everyone had a chance to read before the call.
Tyler Lewis: Thank you, and good morning, everybody. Welcome to CNX's third-quarter Q&A conference call. Today, we will be answering questions related to our third-quarter results. This morning, we posted to our Investor Relations website an updated slide presentation in detail third-quarter earnings release data, such as quarterly E&P data, financial statements, and non-GAAP reconciliations. can be found in a document titled 3Q-2024, Earnings Results and Supplemental Information of CNX Resources. Also, we posted to our Investor Relations website our prepared remarks for the quarter, which we hope everyone had a chance to read before the call, as the call today will be used exclusively for Q&A.
Tyler Lewis: Thank you and good morning, everybody welcome to <unk> third quarter Q&A Conference call.
Tyler Lewis: Today, we will be answering questions related to our third quarter results. This morning, we posted to our Investor Relations website, an updated slide presentation in detail third quarter earnings release data such as quarterly E&P data financial statements and non-GAAP reconciliation.
Tyler Lewis: Which can be found in a document titled three Q2 thousand 24 earnings results and supplemental information are CNS resources.
Tyler Lewis: Also we posted to our Investor Relations website, our prepared remarks for the quarter, which we hope everyone had a chance to read before the call. After the call today will be used exclusively for Q&A.
Tyler Lewis: As the call today would be used exclusively for Q&A.
Tyler Lewis: With me today for Q&A are Nick D'Olius, our President and CEO; Alan Shepherd, our Chief Financial Officer; Danny Bell, our Chief Operating Officer; and Robbie Stravasava, President of our New Technologies Group. Please note that the company's remarks made during this call, including answers to questions, include forward-looking statements, which are subject to various risks and uncertainties. These statements are not guarantees of future performance, and our actual results may differ materially as a result of many factors. A discussion of risks and uncertainties related to those factors and CNX's business is contained in its filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission and in the release issued today.
Tyler Lewis: With me today for Q&A are Nick DeIulis, our President and CEO, Alan Shepard, our Chief Financial Officer, Navneet Bahl, our Chief Operating Officer, and Ravi Srivastava, President of our New Technologies Please note that the company's remarks made during this call, including answers to questions, include forward-looking statements which are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Our statements are not guarantees of future performance, and our actual results may differ materially as a result of many factors. A discussion of risks and uncertainties related to those factors and CNX's business is contained in its filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission and in the release issued today.
Tyler Lewis: With me today for Q&A, our Nicki <unk>, President and CEO, Alan Shepard, Our Chief Financial Officer, Danny Bell, Our Chief operating Officer, and Ravi is Srivastava President of our new technologies group.
Please note that the company's remarks made during this call including answers to questions include forward looking statements, which are subject to various risks and uncertainties.
Tyler Lewis: These statements are not guarantees of future performance and our actual results may differ materially as a result of many factors a discussion of risks and uncertainties related to those factors in excess business is contained in its filings with the securities and Exchange Commission and in the release issued today.
Tyler Lewis: With that, thank you for joining us this morning, and operator.
Tyler Lewis: With that, thank you for joining us this morning, and operator, can you please open the call up for Q&A at this time?
Tyler Lewis: With that thank you for joining us this morning, and operator can you. Please open the call up for Q&A at this time.
Unknown Executive: Can you please up on the call for Q&A this time?
Unknown Executive: Of course, as a reminder to ask a question, you may press star, then one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speaker phone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. Again, to withdraw your question, you may press star, then two.
Unknown Executive: Of course, as a reminder to ask a question, you may press star and one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. Again, to withdraw your question, you may press star then 2.
Speaker Change: Of course as a reminder to ask a question you May Press Star then one on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: If you're using a speakerphone please pick up your handset before pressing the keys to withdraw. Your question you May Press Star then two.
Unknown Executive: At this time, we will pause them entirely to assemble our roster.
Unknown Executive: At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.
Speaker Change: At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.
Bert Dawn: Today's first question comes from Bert Dawn with Truist.
Bert Donnes: Today's first question comes from Bert Donnes with Truist. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Today's first question comes from Bert Dawn with true list. Please go ahead.
Bert Dawn: Hey, good morning, team. I just wanted to start off on the full year 25 capital disclosure. It looks like it maybe got removed from your press release and your presentation. Is that 550 no longer accurate? Maybe there are some moving parts on your turn in line schedule. Is that moving up or down, or is inflation impacting that? Any color that would be helpful?
Nick DeIulis: Hey, good morning, team. Just wanted to start off on the full year 25 capital disclosure. It looks like it maybe got removed from your press release in your presentation. You know, is that 550 no longer accurate? And, you know, maybe there's some moving parts in your turn in line schedule. So is that moving up or down? Or is inflation impacting that? Any color that would Yeah, great question.
Bert Dawn: Hey, good morning team I, just wanted to start off on the full year 'twenty five capital disclosure it looks like it maybe got removed from your press release in your presentation.
Bert Dawn: Is that 515, no longer accurate and you know maybe there were some moving parts in your turn in line schedule. So is that moving up or down or inflation impacting that any any color there would be helpful.
Unknown Executive: Great question. I think the way to think about 2025 is the next quarter; we will provide everyone with the full production volumes we are going to target. That will be entirely a function of what we see develop in the pricing for next year. We do still retain the 11 ducks that we had deferred earlier in the year, so we have pretty significant flexibility in terms of what production profile we want to hit. Again, that all comes back to where we keep pricing heading for next year.
Yeah, Great question. So I think the way to think about 2025 days next quarter I'm going to provide everyone with a kind of a full production volumes were going to target and associated capex with that.
Nick DeIulis: So I think the way to think about 2025 is next quarter we're going to provide everyone with kind of the full production volumes we're going to target, the associated CapEx with that. You know, that'll be entirely a function of what we see develop in the pricing for next year. We do still retain the 11 ducks that we had deferred earlier in the year. So we have pretty significant flexibility in terms of what production profile we want to hit. But again, that all comes back to where we see pricing heading for next year.
Bert Dawn: That'll be entirely a function of what we see developing in the pricing for next year.
Bert Dawn: Do still retain the 11 docks that we had deferred earlier in the year. So we have pretty significant flexibility in terms of what production profile, we want to hit but again that all comes back to where would your pricing headed for next year.
Nick DeIulis: So, you know, the removal disclosure is really just about, you know, we're close to next quarter and provide the exact numbers then.
Unknown Executive: The removal of the disclosure was really just about, we are close to the next quarter and provide the exact numbers then.
Bert Dawn: So when we will disclose it was really just about you know we're close to next quarter and but exact numbers then.
Unknown Executive: Okay, maybe not as a disclosure, but is the efficiency still similar, or is it just a matter of moving parts? Just want to make sure that was the part of the question. Yeah, the efficiency is similar to better; it's just a matter of moving parts and setting the exact number we want to target. It's sort of a function of gas prices.
Nick DeIulis: Okay, maybe not as a disclosure, but is the efficiency still similar or is it just a matter of moving parts? Just wanted to make sure. Yeah, the efficiency is similar to better.
Speaker Change: Okay, Yeah, it maybe not as the disclosure, but it is the.
Speaker Change: Efficiency still similar or is it just a matter of moving parts I just wanted to make sure that was the.
Speaker Change: Out of the question.
Nick DeIulis: It's just a matter of moving parts and setting the exact number we want to target. It's sort of a function of gas prices.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: It's similar to better it's just a matter of moving parts in setting the exact number we want to target sort of a function of gas prices.
Bert Dawn: Perfect, makes sense.
Nick DeIulis: Perfect, makes sense.
Speaker Change: Perfect makes sense and then the second part.
Bert Donnes: And then the second part, I know it's certainly way too early for NewTek exact numbers on 25 and beyond. You know, there's some moving parts on the the CMM volumes and pricing. And AutoCEP looks like it might have might have slid to the right just directionally.
Bert Dawn: And then the second part, I know it's certainly way too early for new tech, exact numbers on 25 and beyond. You know, there's some moving parts on the CMM volumes and pricing, and auto set looks like it might have might have fled to the right just directionally.
Speaker Change: I know, it's certainly way too early for new Tech exact numbers on 25 and beyond.
Speaker Change: There is some moving parts on the CME volumes and pricing.
Speaker Change: And auto SAP it looks like it might have might have slid to the right. Just directionally do you have any views on 2025, and 2026 versus the $75 million, just directionally upwards or downwards.
Nick DeIulis: Do you have any views on 2025 and 2026 versus the 75 million? Like just directionally upwards?
Unknown Executive: Do you have any views on 2025 and 2026 versus the 75 million? I just directionally upwards or downwards? Yeah, again, we'll provide the detailed view on that next quarter. At the break now, we just kind of defer to what's in the commentary on this.
Nick DeIulis: Yeah, again, we'll provide the detailed view on that next quarter. As of right now, we just kind of defer to what's in the commentary on those. Gotcha.
Speaker Change: Yeah, and Dan will provide the details to you on that next quarter.
Speaker Change: Right now, we're just kind of refer to what's in the commentary on this.
Bert Dawn: Yes, and was the auto step pushed to the right on the, I think the prior disclosure just implied you're going to do some third party work in the second half, but just want to make sure that was either the case still or no longer case. Yeah, that's still a possibility.
Bert Donnes: And was, was the auto step push to the right on the, uh, I think the prior disclosure just implied you were going to do some third party work in second. Yeah, that's still a possibility. The focus right now on Autoset is working with our JV partner to develop some additional units in that fleet. Right now, the existing unit we have is fully deployed on our internal operations. So there's potential for some third party work this year. But the focus of that right now is building out that fleet. We're seeing really good kind of interest from customers, and it's still in real early stages.
Speaker Change: Got it and what was the auto stuff pushed to the right on the I think the prior disclosure just implied you're going to do some third party work in second half, but just wanted to make sure that was.
Speaker Change: Either the case still are no longer the case.
Speaker Change: Yes, that's still a possibility the focus right now on auto step is working with our JV partner to develop them.
Unknown Executive: The focus right now on auto set is working with our JV partner to develop some additional units in that three. Right now, the existing unit we have is fully deployed on our internal operations, so there's potential for some third party work this year. But the focus of that right now is building up that's really good kind of interest from customers. I'm going to still in real early stages.
Speaker Change: Additional units and that's right now the existing we have is fully deployed on our internal operations. So there's potential for some third party work this year, but the focus right. Now is building out. That's what you were seeing really good kind of interesting customers still real early stages. So that's why again, we will talk about our next door to where we see the full year guidance for that business, but maybe.
Nick DeIulis: So that's why we'll again, we'll talk about it next quarter where we see the full year guidance for that business, but things still looking good there.
Unknown Executive: So that's why we'll again, we'll talk about an export where we see the four year guys for that business, but I think it's still looking good there.
Are you still looking good there.
Bert Dawn: Yeah, so I appreciate the detail. Thank you.
Bert Donnes: Gotcha. I appreciate the details. Thanks, guys.
Speaker Change: Got it I appreciate the detail thanks, guys.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question comes from Zach <unk> with J P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Zach Parham: The next question comes from Zach Parham with J.P. Morgan.
Zach Parham: The next question comes from Zach Parham with JP Morgan.
Zach Parham: Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my questions. First, just wanted to ask on the new tech business, you mentioned in the prepared remarks, you're still waiting on some regulatory clarity for 45V and potentially 45Q. Could you talk a little bit more about the opportunity set if you do get some regulatory clarity there?
Zach Parham: Please go ahead. Thanks for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Thanks for taking my questions.
Zach Parham: First, just wanted to ask on the new tech business. You mentioned in the prepare remarks. You're still waiting on some regulatory clarity for 45 V and potentially 45 Q. Could you talk a little bit more about the opportunity said if you do get some regulatory clarity there. How much more coalman methane could you potentially capture and what would be the associated cap X bed with that to capture incremental volumes.
Speaker Change: Just wanted to ask on the New Tech business you mentioned in the prepared remarks, you are still waiting on some regulatory clarity for 45, B potentially 45, Q could you talk a little bit more about the opportunity set if you do get some regulatory regulatory clarity there.
Ravi Srivastava: You know, how much more coal mine methane could you potentially capture and what would be the associated CapEx spend with that to capture incremental volume? Yeah, thanks for the question, Doug.
Speaker Change: How much more coal mine methane could you potentially capture and what what would be the associated capex spend with that.
Speaker Change: Capture incremental volumes.
Unknown Executive: Yeah, thanks for the question, Doug.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Thanks for that.
Ravi Srivastava: And the short answer is we don't know, and we can't say right now, because we don't know enough, you know, about how the market's going to develop. We have in our commentary, we have laid out there's four different, you know, pathways that they're pursuing. And the first one being the APS program where, you know, the states are looking to kind of reduce their CO2 emissions and look at alternative energy resources to be deployed for electric generation, right? And then we got the 45E pathway for hydrogen production generation. And now we got this 45Q opportunity for CO2 sequestration, greenhouse gas emission reduction opportunity.
Speaker Change: Doug.
Unknown Executive: The short answer is we don't know, and we can't say right now because we don't know enough about how the market's going to develop. In our commentary, we've laid out there's four different pathways that they're pursuing. And the first one being the APS program where you know the states are looking to kind of produce their CO2 emissions and look at alternate energy resources to be deployed for lecture generation. Right. And then we got the 45 V pathway for hydrogen production generation. And now we got this 45 Q opportunity for CO2 sequestration, green, green of gas emission reduction opportunity.
Speaker Change: But the short answer is we don't know and we can't say right now because we don't know enough about how the market is going to develop.
Speaker Change: Our commentary we have laid out there's four different pathways that they're pursuing.
Speaker Change: And the first one being the Ats program, where the states are looking to kind of reduce their C. O. Two emissions and then look at Ogden.
Speaker Change: Energy resources to be deployed for electric generation right.
Speaker Change: Then you got the 45 V pathway for hydrogen production generation and now we got to 40 by two opportunity force or C. O two sequestration.
Speaker Change: Those gas emission reduction opportunity and then we're also pursuing a private sector transaction. So.
Ravi Srivastava: And then we're also pursuing private sector transactions. So that's the opportunity set. And while the APS pathway is defined, and that kind of sets the stage for what our opportunity to capture right now is and what our cash flow guidance that we're providing right now. And the other pathway is while they're still very excited about, you know, like what they can be, but they're still taking form. And as these markets start to kind of crystallize, then we'll have, we'll be in a better position to provide our view on, you know, how we could play a role in serving these markets.
Unknown Executive: And then we're also pursuing private sector transactions. So that's the opportunity set in and while the APS pathways is defined and the kind of sets the stage for what our opportunity to capture right now is and what are what are cash flow guidance. They're providing right now.
Speaker Change: That's the opportunity set.
Speaker Change: And while the Aps pathways is defined and the kind of stuff.
Sets the stage for what our opportunity to capture right Nowadays and look at what our cash flow guidance.
Speaker Change: Providing right now.
Unknown Executive: And the other pathways was very excited about what they can be, but they're still taking form. And these markets start to kind of crystallize, then we'll have to be in a better position to provide our view on how we could play a role in serving these markets. But right now it's just too premature, like until these pathways for markets become more defined.
Speaker Change: And the other pathways.
Speaker Change: Very excited about you know like what they can be but they are still taking form.
Speaker Change: As these markets start to kind of crystallize then we'll have we'll be in a better position to provide our view on how we could play a role in serving these markets.
Ravi Srivastava: But right now, it's just too premature, like until these pathways for markets become more definitive.
Speaker Change: Right now it's just too.
Speaker Change: Too premature until these pathways for markets become more definitive.
Zach Parham: Thanks for that.
Zach Parham: Thanks for that. My follow up, I just wanted to ask on the buyback. The stock is has moved quite a bit higher. It's higher than where y'all fought back in the past.
Speaker Change: Thanks for that my follow up I, just wanted to ask on the buyback the stock has moved quite a bit higher.
Zach Parham: My follow-up, I just wanted to ask on the buyback. The stock has moved quite a bit higher. It's higher than where you'll fall back in the past. I'm just curious how you're thinking about the buyback going forward with the stock now in the mid 30s. You know, do you still consider it a good value to be buying that stock? You know, at some point, do you consider pivoting to a dividend? Just curious how you're thinking about cash return from here in general.
It is higher than where you bought back in the past.
Ravi Srivastava: I'm just curious how you're thinking about the buyback going forward with the stock now in the mid 30s? You know, do you still consider it a good value to be buying back stock? You know, at some point, do you consider pivoting to a dividend? Just curious how you're thinking about cash return from here in general? Yeah, so we continue to see a very attractive opportunity over the long term for CNX when we look at the future prospects of the business, but I wouldn't read into that in terms of short-term allocation decisions. It's sort of counterproductive for us to provide near-term guidance on those activities.
Speaker Change: Just curious how you're thinking about the buyback going forward with the stock now in the mid thirties.
Speaker Change: Do you still consider it a good value to be buying back stock at some point do you consider pivoting to a dividend just curious how you're thinking about cash return for beer in general.
Unknown Executive: Yeah, so we continue to see a very attractive opportunity over the long term for CNX, and we look out in the future prospects of the business. But I wouldn't read into that in terms of short term allocation decisions that sort of kind of productive for us provide your term guidance on those activities.
Speaker Change: Yeah. So we continue to see a very attractive opportunity over the long term for <unk>, we've looked at in the future prospects of the business, but I wouldn't read into that in terms of short term allocation decisions, it's sort of counter productive for us to provide near term guidance on those activities.
Unknown Executive: What I will say is I'll point everybody back to fundamentally our clinical cap location process is the same regardless of what the share price is. The share price is just an input into that process. We're going to continue to follow that process and the results that it kind of sticks out. The other thing I'd note there is we have pretty significant flexibility just in terms of where our balance sheet is and what our hedge book, you know, all cap location opportunities are open to us.
Ravi Srivastava: What I will say is I'll point everybody back to fundamentally, you know, our clinical capital allocation process is the same regardless of what the share price is. The share price is just an input into that process, and we're going to continue to follow that process and the results that it kind of spits out. The other thing I'd note there is we have pretty significant flexibility just in terms of where our balance sheet is and what our hedge book, you know, all capital allocation opportunities are open to us.
Speaker Change: What I will say is I'll point, everybody back to fundamentally our credit our clinical capital allocation process is the same regardless of what the share prices the share prices just an input into that process or to continue to follow that process and the results of that kind of sticks out.
Speaker Change: The other thing I would note. There is we have we have pretty significant flexibility just in terms of where our balance sheet is in with our hedge book.
Speaker Change: All capital allocation opportunities are open to us.
Unknown Executive: Thanks, guys. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you Ed.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question comes from Leo Mariani with Roth Capital. Please go ahead.
Leo Mariani: The next question comes from Leo Mariani with Roth Capital.
Leo Mariani: The next question comes from Leo Mariani with Roth Capital. Please go ahead. I just wanted to follow up a little bit more here on the guidance. It looks like you guys removed five turn in lines from the schedule in 2024. Just curious if maybe those kind of slid to the right or are you paring back some activity? Obviously, gas prices have not been fantastic here over the last couple of months. So just trying to get a sense if you're being a little more cautious on overall activity on the drilling side or perhaps maybe those just slid a tiny bit into early 2025 on the turn in lines.
Leo Mariani: Please go ahead. I just wanted to follow up a little bit more here on the guidance.
Leo Mariani: I just wanted to follow up a little bit more here on the guidance.
Leo Mariani: It looks like you guys removed five turning lines from the schedule in 2024. Just curious if maybe those kind of slid to the right or are you pairing back some activity. Obviously, gas prices have not been fantastic here over the last couple months. So just trying to get a sense if you're being a little more cautious on overall activity on the drilling side or perhaps maybe those just slid a tiny bit into early 25 on the turning lines.
Leo Mariani: It looks like you guys removed five turn in lines from the schedule.
Leo Mariani: 2024, just just curious if maybe this is kind of slid to the right or are you paring back some activity, obviously gas prices have not been fantastic here over the last couple of months. So just trying to get a sense, if you're being a little more cautious on overall activity on the drilling side or perhaps maybe there.
Leo Mariani: Just slid a tiny bit into early 'twenty five on the turn in lines.
Unknown Executive: Yeah, it's more the latter. Those were those were kills that were kind of scheduled for that mid to late December and kind of stuck across the across the year end line.
Navneet Behl: Yeah, it's more of the latter. Those were those were kills that were kind of scheduled for that mid to late December and kind of slipped across the year end line. So it's kind of artificial, if you think about it from that perspective. So there's no change in the activity set from what we indicated back in the spring where we deferred those 11 ducks. Okay, that's helpful.
Yeah, it's more of a latter those were those were kills that were scheduled for that mid to late December and kind of slipped across the.
Unknown Executive: So it's kind of artificial. You think about it from that perspective. So there's no change in the activities after more we indicated back in the spring where we defer those 11 ducks.
Speaker Change: Across the year end line. So it's kind of artificial you'd think about it from that perspective, So theres no no change in the activities that from what we indicated back in the spring, where we deferred those 11 docks.
Leo Mariani: Okay, that's helpful. And then just wanted to follow up on the 45Q 45V potential tax credits here. Could you just give us kind of a sense of roughly what type of federal tax credit is kind of being contemplated under 45 Q? I guess I'm like a CO2 perspective. It's around $85 per ton.
Speaker Change: Okay. That's helpful.
Leo Mariani: And I just wanted to follow up on the 45Q, 45V potential tax credits here. Could you just give us kind of a sense of, you know, roughly what type of federal tax credit is kind of being contemplated under 45Q? You know, I guess from like a CO2 perspective, it's around $85, you know, per ton.
Speaker Change: And then just wanted to follow up on on the 45 to 45.
Speaker Change: Potential tax credits here.
Speaker Change: Could you just give us kind of a sense.
Speaker Change: You know roughly what type of federal tax credit is kind of being contemplated under 45 Q.
Speaker Change: So Mike of Sidoti your perspective, it's around $85.
Speaker Change: Per ton.
Leo Mariani: Is that something similar that you think could occur, you know, for methane? And then under the 45V rules, is there potentially some kind of, you know, multiple, a big multiple of that number in terms of the tax credit?
Leo Mariani: Is that something similar that you think could occur for methane? And then under the 45 V rules, is there potentially some kind of multiple big multiple of that number in terms of the tax credit just trying to get a sense of what you think's being kind of contemplated right now.
Speaker Change: Is that something similar that you think could occur.
Speaker Change: For mapping and then under the the 45 D rules is there potentially some kind of multiple big multiple of that number in terms of the tax credit just trying to get a sense of what you think is being kind of contemplated right now and any high level timeframe as to when you'd think a decision could be made under.
Leo Mariani: Just trying to get a sense of what you think's being kind of contemplated right now in any high-level timeframe as to when you think a decision could be made, you know, under those potential bills.
Leo Mariani: And any high-level time frame is to when you think a decision could be made. You don't understand those potential bills.
Speaker Change: Under those potential built.
Unknown Executive: Yeah, thanks for the question.
Ravi Srivastava: Yeah, thanks for the question. On the 45Q side of things, I think that I think the numbers that's been floated out there in the in the draft language is around $60 per tonne. But at the same time, like, you know, there's a, there's a lot of moving parts to understand, like, what's going to qualify what's not.
Speaker Change: Yeah. Thanks for the question.
Unknown Executive: On the 45 Q side of things, I think that I do a number that's been floated out there in the draft lane, which is around $60 per ton. But at the same time, there's a lot of moving parts to understand what's going to qualify, what's not. So I think it's too early to say like which volumes are going to qualify for that. and I think the most that you can get is like $3.00 per kilogram. And how that translates into what incentive it would be for Poe Mine methane. I think it's going to have to go to a very rigorous exercise of understanding, like you know, like specifics of what the guidance of the nine tails.
Speaker Change: On the 45 Q side of things I think that I think the numbers that's been floated out there in the in the draft language is around $60 per ton.
Speaker Change: But out but at the same time that you know there is a.
Speaker Change: There was a lot of moving parts to understand like what's gonna qualify what's not so I think oh.
Ravi Srivastava: So I think it's, it's too early to say, like, which volumes are going to qualify for that. I think we will have to wait until the final On the V side of things, it talks about tax incentives for producing hydrogen. I think the most that you can get is like $3 per kilogram. And how that translates into what incentive it would be for coal and methane, I think it's going to have to go through a very rigorous exercise of understanding, again, specifics of what the guidance is going to entail. So it's very difficult to say at this point in time what that will be.
Speaker Change: It's too early to say like with volumes are going to qualify for that I think we still have to wait until the final.
Speaker Change: Languages out on the on the beef side I think that talks about.
Speaker Change: The tax incentives for producing hydrogen I think the best the most of that you can get at that $3 per kilogram and how that translates into what what what what incentive but it would be for Florida, Coalbed methane I think it's going to have to go through a very rigorous exercise up understanding like you know like again like you know like specifics all what the what the guidance is going to entail.
Unknown Executive: It's very difficult to say at this point in time what that will be. So stay tuned once the guidance is out. I think we'll be able to provide more, more color.
Speaker Change: Difficult to say at this point in time, what that will be so stay tuned what the guidance is I would I think we'd be able to provide more color and that's called the timing I think I can say at least on the 45 beef side of things look we've learned from the Treasury ads.
Ravi Srivastava: So stay tuned once the guidance is out. I think we'll be able to provide more color.
Ravi Srivastava: And as for the timing, I think I can say at least on the 45V side of things, what we've heard from the Treasury is that is expected before the end of the year in Q4.
Unknown Executive: And as for the timing, I think I can say at least on the 45 V side of things, what we've learned from the Treasury is that it's expected before the end of the year in Q4.
Speaker Change: That is expected.
Speaker Change: Towards the end of the year in Q4.
Unknown Executive: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay very helpful. Thank you.
Unknown Executive: Very helpful.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question comes from Nathan Kumar with Mizuho. Please go ahead.
Nitin Kumar: The next question comes from Nitin Kumar with Mizuho.
Nitin Kumar: The next question comes from Nitin Kumar with Mizuho. Please go ahead.
Nitin Kumar: Please go ahead. Hi. Good morning, guys. And thanks for taking my question. You've given us some color on the 45 Q and 45 V, but I'll try something maybe a little different on the 45 Q. The Treasury has been a little bit prescriptive in terms of what equipment qualifies. They have a date of, I think, 2018, and a 12-year sunset.
Nitin Kumar: Hi, good morning, guys, and thanks for taking my question. You've given us some color on the 45Q and 45V, but I'll try something maybe a little different. On the 45Q, the Treasury has been a little bit prescriptive in terms of what equipment qualifies. They have a date of, I think, 2018 and a 12-year sunset.
Nathan Kumar: Hi, Good morning, guys and thanks for taking my question, you've given us some color on the 45, Q and fortify V, but try something maybe a little different.
Nathan Kumar: On the 45 Q.
Nathan Kumar: The treasury has been a little bit prescriptive in terms of what equipment qualifies.
Nathan Kumar: They have a date of I think 2018, and a quality of Sunset could you walk us through your current operations in CML what is the.
Ravi Srivastava: Could you walk us through your current operations in CMM? What is the sort of average life of that equipment today? And is this being replenished or renewed every few years?
Unknown Executive: Could you walk us through your current operations in CMM? What is the sort of average life of that equipment today, and is this being replenished or renewed every few years? I mean, I would say that it is against to early to say it until unless the the language or the 45 Q draft language as it pertains to methane after it's finalized. It's we just like hypothesizing what that means. So, like, once the language is clear, I think we'll be able to provide that. Okay.
Nathan Kumar: Sort of average life of that equipment today and is this being replenished or or sort of a renewed every few years.
Ravi Srivastava: I mean, I would say that it's too early to say until and unless the language for the 45Q draft language as it pertains to methane capture is finalized, we'll just be hypothesizing what that means. So once the language is clear, I think we'll be able to provide a better title.
Speaker Change: I mean, I would say they've been against too early to say.
Speaker Change: Well unless the the the language was at 40 by two draft language as it pertains to methane capture its finalize it.
Speaker Change: If we just step back and Hypothesizing, what what that means so like what's the what's the languages that they can be able to provide better guidance.
Nitin Kumar: Okay, fair enough.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Nitin Kumar: Fair enough.
Ravi Srivastava: And then I wanna just maybe circle back to Zach's question. I understand you can't talk about plans to increase CMM, but do you have a sense of what is the F&D cost today of, forget about 45E or 45Q, what is the cost of maybe implementing new systems on mines and what is the opportunity set for CNX? I think you do about 17 to 18 BCF a year. How much can you grow that? Yeah, I mean, I think it kind of goes back to the same question, Nitin, where like, in the absence of good guidance in terms of like, what's going to what's going to qualify what's not, it'll be too premature to talk about, like, you know, what qualifies how much qualifies.
Nitin Kumar: And then I want to just may circle back to that question. You know, I understand you can't talk about plans to increase CMM. But do you have a sense of what is the FND cost today of forget about 45 V or 45 Q.
Speaker Change: Fair enough and then I wanted to just maybe circle back to <unk> question.
Speaker Change: I understand you can't talk about plans to increase C. M M. But do you have a sense of what does the F&D cost today OS.
Speaker Change: Forget about 45 or 45 Q what is the cost of maybe implementing new systems on mines and what is the opportunity says set for a C. N X 10, you do about 17 to 18 eight Bcf a year.
Unknown Executive: What is the cost of maybe implementing new systems on on minds and what is the opportunity set for CNX? Yeah, I think you do, but if 70 to 18 BCF a year, how much can you grow that? Yeah, I mean, I think it kind of goes back to the same question, Nathan, where, like, in the absence of what guidance in terms of like what's going to qualify, what's not? It'll be too premature to talk about like, you know, what qualified, how much qualified.
Speaker Change: How much can you grow that.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean, I think it kind of goes back to the same oh.
Speaker Change: Question, nothing where like in the absence of guidance.
Speaker Change: Guidance in terms of like what's gonna help what's going to qualify what's not it'll be too premature to.
Speaker Change: To talk about like you know what quantified how much quantified so I would say stay tuned into the app.
Nitin Kumar: So I would say stay tuned until the better information is available for us so we can provide better guidance on All right, I thought I'd take a shot. Thanks, guys.
Unknown Executive: So I would say stay tuned until the better information is available for us. So we can provide better guidance on the matter.
Speaker Change: But that information is available where actually we can provide better guidance on the matter.
Nitin Kumar: All right, that's not a good take a shot. Thanks, guys.
Speaker Change: Alright, I thought I could take a shot thanks guys.
Michael Scialla: Thank you. The next question is from Michael Scialla with Stevens. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is from Michael Gallo with Stephens. Please go ahead.
Michael Scala: The next question is from Michael Scala with Steven.
Michael Scala: Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Michael Scala: Good morning, everybody. Yeah, I wanted to ask on the deep Utica play. Obviously, some very high rates there. Anything to gas prices improve next year. Is there anything that would, if you wanted to ramp that play, that would constrain that? Any infrastructure issues, or is it still too early on the. The cost side to know if you really want to push the pedal down there, if the market looks like it needs more gas. I mean, it's been the first question first. We're extremely happy with the performance on the class side and just the overall execution at a NAV team.
Navneet Behl: Good morning, everybody. I wanted to ask, on the Deep Utica play, obviously some very high rates there. Anything, say gas prices improve next year, is there anything that would, if you wanted to ramp that play, that would constrain that, any infrastructure issues, or is it still too early on the cost side to know if you really want to push the pedal down there if the market looks like it needs more gas?
Michael Gallo: Good morning, everybody I wanted to ask on the deep Utica play.
Michael Gallo: Obviously, some very high rates there.
Michael Gallo: Anything if gas prices improve next year.
Michael Gallo: Is there anything that would.
Michael Gallo: If you wanted to ramp that play that would constrain that any infrastructure issues or is it still.
Michael Gallo: Too early on the.
Michael Gallo: The cost side to know if you really want to.
Michael Gallo: Push the pedal down there.
Speaker Change: The market looks like it needs more gas.
Navneet Behl: Let me answer the first question first. We're extremely happy with the performance on the cost side and just the overall execution at a NAV team. In terms of ramping volumes, those wells are super prolific in early time, so you certainly have that optionality. We don't have any kind of near-term major constraints, I think, of what you're hitting at. It's just really the function of pricing. And in any ramp-up situation, as we've seen in the past, you do need some lead time to do it, but there's nothing I'd point to right now that would prevent us if we were to achieve that sort of market price signal.
I mean, it's maybe the first question first we're extremely happy with the performance on the cost side and just the overall execution.
James: It's James.
Unknown Executive: In terms of ramping volumes, you know, those wells are super-political in early times, so you certainly have that optionality. We don't have any kind of near-term major constraints; I think of what you're hitting at. It's just really the function of pricing. And in any ramp-up situation, as we've seen in the past, you do need some lead time to do it, but there's nothing I'd point you right now that would prevent us appear to keep that sort of market price signal.
James: In terms of ramping volumes now those wells are super prolific in early time. So you certainly have that optionality.
James: We don't have any kind of near term major constraints I think of what youre hitting that was just really a function of pricing.
James: Any ramp up situations as we've seen in the past you do need some lead time to do it but there's nothing I'd point you right now that would prevent us to be able to keep that sort of market price signal.
Michael Scala: Great.
Navneet Behl: Great, could you, is it too early to say on the cost side or can you give, I mean it gave some days which I guess would imply that is $100,000 per day a good estimate on the drilling side and then we can, could we assume like one third, two thirds on the completion side?
James: Great.
Michael Scala: Could you, is it too early to say on the cost side, or can you give me, give some days, which I guess would imply that is $100,000 per day, a good estimate on the drilling side, and then we can, could we assume like one-third, two-thirds on the completion side? I think I can give you a micro-cost side. So far, like we put in our ingredients, we've gotten a drilling down to like 150 days, and that's a 23% improvement over 23. And on the current set of wells that we've just completed, we've improved even more that. So, you know, I am very pleased with the progress we have made, but not anywhere close to satisfied on where we should be.
Speaker Change: Is it too early to say on the cost side or can you give me gave some some days, which I guess would imply is $100000 per <unk> per.
Speaker Change: Per day, a good estimate on the on the drilling side and then.
Speaker Change: Can could we assume like one third two thirds on the completion side.
Navneet Behl: I think I can give you, Michael, the cost side. So far, there's, you know, like we, you know, put in our guidance here is we've gotten a drilling time down to like, what, like, you know, under 50 days, and that's a 23% improvement over 23, and on the current set of wells that we've just, you know, completed, that's, we've improved even more that. So, you know, I am very pleased with the progress we have made, but not anywhere close to satisfied on where we should be. So we'll keep continuing making progress on both cost and, you know, drilling performance.
Speaker Change: I think I can Oh give me Michael.
Speaker Change: On the cost side so far.
Speaker Change: You know I like like we are.
Speaker Change: You know put in our guidance here is we've gotten a drilling drilling come down to like more like you know under 50 days and that's a 23% improvement over.
Speaker Change: Or 23 and on the claim set available that we've just completed.
Speaker Change: Completed.
Speaker Change: That's we have improved and then even more so.
Speaker Change: You know I am very pleased with the progress we have made but not anywhere close to satisfy on whether you should be so we will keep continue to making progress on both our cost and our drilling performance.
Unknown Executive: So we'll keep continuing making progress on both cost and, you know, drilling performance.
Unknown Executive: Just to kind of give you an example on drilling performance is, are all in cost, like, you know, we've been able to drive them down like almost 31% from 2023, and drilling has been the major driver for that cost coming down, and drilling costs have come down almost 38% from 2023, which was like, you know, $1,200 per foot down to like $1,750 per foot, and we are making progress continuously as we speak.
Speaker Change: And just to kind of give you. An example on our drilling performance is.
Speaker Change: Our all in cost like you know, we've been able to drive them down like almost 31% from 2023.
And drilling has been the major driver for that cost coming down and drilling costs have come down almost 38% from 20.
Speaker Change: 'twenty, three which was more like $1200 per foot down to like more of a $750 look like.
Navneet Behl: And we are making progress continuously as we speak. Great.
Speaker Change: And we are making progress continuously.
Speaker Change: Speak.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Michael Scala: Great, and Ebene, as a fair to say, it competes with your Marcellus right now, or is it still kind of a little bit higher cost-play? It's definitely, it's been a mix of the fabrication process, for sure. Yeah, and just to kind of give you an idea of like, these are highly prolific wells. For example, $10,000 per foot Udika well compared to, you know, Southwest P and Marcellus well will make about 20 BCS seven times faster than the Southwest P and well, right? So, these are highly prolific, highly, you know, highly red overtone wells.
Navneet Behl: Navneet, is it fair to say it competes with your Marcellus right now, or is it? Still kind of a little bit higher cost play. It's absolutely complete. It's in the mix in the capital allocation process, for sure. Yeah. And just to kind of give you an idea of like, these are highly prolific wells. For example, a 10,000 foot Utica well, compared to a, you know, Southwest PA Marcellus well, will make about 20 BCF, seven times faster than the Southwest PA well, right? So, so these are highly prolific, highly, you know, high rate of return wells.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: Fair to say it competes with your Marcellus right now or is it.
Speaker Change: Still kind of a little bit higher cost play.
Speaker Change: Exactly.
Speaker Change: Afterwards, we competed in the Mexican capital allocation process for sure Yeah, and just just to kind of give you give you an idea of like these are highly prolific wells for.
Speaker Change: For example.
Speaker Change: 10000 foot Utica, well compared to our southwest PA Marcellus well little make about 20 Bcf seven times faster than the southwest Diego right. So these are highly prolific highly Ah you know how to.
Speaker Change: And over time those so we are really excited about the play.
Navneet Behl: So we are really excited about the play.
Michael Scala: So, we're really excited about the play. Great.
Unknown Executive: Great, appreciate the color. Thank you guys.
Speaker Change: Great I appreciate the color. Thank you guys.
Michael Scala: Appreciate it, Colin. Thank you, guys.
Jacob Roberts: Thank you. The next question is from Jacob Roberts with TPH.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is from Jacob Roberts with P. P. H. Please go ahead.
Jacob Roberts: The next question is from Jacob Roberts with PPH.
Jacob Roberts: Please go ahead.
Jacob Roberts: Please go ahead.
Jacob Roberts: Good morning. Maybe for Ravi, stepping away from the, you know, financial outlook on the 45Q and 45B changes, if we think about the 18Bs of coal mine methane today, should we be viewing those potential changes under 45Q and 45B as mutually exclusive opportunities or as our way to benefit from both. I mean, I hate to kind of repeat the same thing until the guidance is out. I don't know; well, we don't know whether that 18 BCF and how that's going to get that treatment. So once we have a better idea, once we have better information, we'll be able to provide more color on how that 18 BCF gets treated under the two programs. Fair enough.
Jacob Roberts: Good morning.
Ravi Srivastava: Maybe for Ravi, stepping away from the financial outlook on the 45Q and 45B changes, if we think about the 18Bs of coal mine methane today, should we be viewing those potential changes under 45Q and 45B as mutually exclusive opportunities, or is there a way to benefit from both? I mean, I hate to kind of repeat the same thing until the guidance is out. I don't know, and we don't know whether that 18-BCF and how that's going to get that treatment. So once we have a better idea, once we have better information, we'll be able to provide more color on how that 18-BCF gets treated under the two programs. Fair enough.
Jacob Roberts: Good morning, maybe maybe for Ravi stepping away from the financial our outlook on the 45 to <unk> 45 be changes if we think about the 18 BS of coal mine methane today should we be viewing those potential changes under.
Jacob Roberts: <unk> 45 to 145, B as mutually exclusive opportunities or is there a way to benefit from both.
Jacob Roberts: I mean, I hate to kind of repeat the same thing until the guidance is about I don't know if you don't know whether that 18 Bcf and how that's going to get the treatment. So.
Speaker Change: So once we have better idea of when you have that information, we'll be able to provide more color on how that AT&T say it gets treated under the two programs.
Speaker Change: Fair enough as a follow up just given the equity appreciation has that changed any conversations around the M&A market and what opportunities might be out there.
Ravi Srivastava: As a follow up, just given the equity appreciation, has that changed any conversations around the M&A market and what opportunities might be out there? And more specifically, do you think there are opportunities that exist that would align more with the new technology segment?
Jacob Roberts: As a follow up, just given the equity appreciation, has that changed any conversations around the M&A market and what opportunities might be out there?
Unknown Executive: And then, more specifically, do you think there are opportunities that exist that would align more with the new technology segment? Yeah, I would just like to further back the early commentary. You know, we talked about our type of allocation process, and one of the things to get considered throughout that process is M&A, you know, both oil and gas and potentially other things you'll do too, but nothing specific common on at this point.
Speaker Change: More specifically do you think there are opportunities that exist that would align more with the new technology segment.
Ravi Srivastava: Yeah, I would just defer back to the earlier commentary, you know, I talked about our capital allocation process. And one of the things that gets considered throughout that process is M&A, you know, both oil and gas and potentially other things as you alluded to, but nothing specific to comment on at this point.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I would just refer back to the earlier commentary you know we've talked about our capital allocation process and one of the things that get considered throughout that process is M&A.
Speaker Change: Oil and gas.
Speaker Change: Essentially other things too.
Speaker Change: No nothing specific to comment on at this point.
Jacob Roberts: Great. Appreciate the time, guys.
Unknown Executive: Great.
Unknown Executive: Appreciate the time, guys.
Speaker Change: Great I appreciate the time guys.
Kevin MacCurdy: Thank you. The next question comes from Kevin MacCurdy with Pickering Energy Partners.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question comes from Kevin Mccarthy with Pickering Energy Partners. Please go ahead.
Kevin McCurdy: The next question comes from Kevin McCurdy with Pickering Energy Partners.
Kevin MacCurdy: Please go ahead.
Kevin McCurdy: Please go ahead.
Kevin McCurdy: Hey, good morning, guys. Can I ask for a little clarification on the wall costs on the Utica side? I think you mentioned earlier that costs were down 31% from 2023. Where does that put you on a dollar per foot and for this latest round of the world? Yeah, so I think that the number of kids I have in mind is called 1800 bucks per foot is where we're talking after 24.
Kevin MacCurdy: Hey, good morning, guys. Um, can I ask for a little clarification on the wall cost on the Utica side? I think you mentioned earlier that costs were down 31% from 2023. Where does that put you on a dollar per foot and for this latest round of wealth? Yeah, so I think that the number of care I have in mind is called 1800 bucks per foot is where we're targeting after 24.
Kevin Mccarthy: Hey, good morning, guys can.
Kevin Mccarthy: Can I ask for a little clarification on the walk us on the Utica side I think you mentioned earlier that costs were down 31%.
Kevin Mccarthy: From 2023, where does that put you on a dollar per foot and for.
This latest round of wealth.
Speaker Change: Yeah, So remember Kevin minus call. It 1800 Bucks prefer we're targeting after 24.
Ravi Srivastava: Gotcha. Okay, that's helpful. And then I appreciate all the updates on the new technology side.
Speaker Change: Got you Okay. That's helpful.
Unknown Executive: That's helpful. And then I appreciate all the updates on the new technology side.
Speaker Change: And then I appreciate all the updates on the new technology side, and I know that you're kind of limited on what you can say.
Ravi Srivastava: And I know that you're kind of limited on what you can say. But can you just kind of confirm for us on the CMM volumes that this year, I think you're at 17 to 18 BCF. That's not capped at that rate, right? You could potentially increase that over the next few years if there was an incentive to do so. Yeah, it's all going to be a function of the incentive program we talk about, you know, we, we enjoy the ability to grow the portfolio.
Kevin McCurdy: I know that you're kind of limited on what you can say, but can you just kind of confirm for us on the CMM volumes that this year? I think you're at 17 to 18 BCF. That's not capped at that rate, right? Well, you could potentially increase that over the next few years if there was an incentive to do so. Yeah, it's all going to be a function of the incentive burden. If we talk about, you know, we enjoy the ability to grow the portfolio, but until we see final regulations, we can realize how in which projects would come online or what time.
Speaker Change: But can you just kind of confirm for us on the CME volumes. This year I think you were at 17 to 18 Bcf that's not capped at that.
Speaker Change: Right right well you could potentially increase that over the next few years. If there was an incentive to do so.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: So all it would be a function of incentive program you're talking about.
Speaker Change: You're enjoying the ability to grow the portfolio, but until we see final regulations, we can analyze how and which projects would come online over time.
Ravi Srivastava: But until we see final regulations, we can't analyze how and which projects would come online and what Any thoughts of the total capacity that you could grow to? Again, without the details of the program, you can't make that up.
Kevin McCurdy: Any thoughts of the total capacity that you could go to? Again, without the job of the program, you can't make that estimate. Great, I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: And any thoughts about the total capacity that you could go to.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Again without the details on the program you can't make that estimate.
Kevin MacCurdy: Great, I appreciate it. Thank you guys.
Speaker Change: Great I appreciate it thank you guys.
Unknown Executive: Thank you guys. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session I would now like to turn the call back over to Tyler Lewis for any closing remarks.
Tyler Lewis: This concludes our question and answer session.
Tyler Lewis: This concludes our question and answer session.
Tyler Lewis: I would now like to turn the call back over to Tyler Lewis for any closing remarks. Great, thank you again for joining us this morning and please feel free to reach out if anyone has additional questions. Otherwise, we'll look forward to speaking with everyone again next quarter.
Tyler Lewis: I would now like to turn the call back over to Tyler Lewis for any closing remarks. Great. Thank you again for joining us this morning, and please feel free to reach out if anyone has additional questions.
Tyler Lewis: Great. Thank you again for joining us this morning, and please feel free to reach out if anyone has additional questions. Otherwise, we'll look forward to speaking with everyone again next quarter. Thank you.
Tyler Lewis: Otherwise, we'll look forward to speaking with everyone again next quarter.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Unknown Executive: The conference has now concluded. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.
Unknown Executive: The conference has now concluded. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect your line.
Speaker Change: The conference has now concluded. Thank you for your participation you may now disconnect your lines.
[music].
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: [music].
Unknown Executive: Michael Scialla, Brian Velie, Nicholas DeIuli, John Abbott, Bertrand Donnes; Michael Scialla, Brian Velie, John Abbott, Bertrand Donnes; John Abbott, Bertrand; Michael Scialla, Brian Velie, John Abbott, Bertrand Donnes; John Abbott, Bertrand Donnes; John Abbott.