Full Year 2024 Allianz SE Earnings Call
So I'd recommend for those who want to participate in the Q&A, which will happen after the presentations.
You go for the analog approach.
Use the audio Darden feature.
Speaker Change: Great with that at this time I would like to turn the call over to your host today, Mr. All of a beta Chief Executive Officer of Allianz S. A please go ahead Oliver.
Speaker Change: Good afternoon to everyone I thought you had the horse Andrew but let's have some fun.
Speaker Change: Friday morning or afternoon. Please.
Speaker Change: It's a great day for Allianz, it's lots of volatility in markets and we're not looking at what happens today, but what we would like to talk about briefly about what has happened in the last quarter of 24, and then probably you have tons of questions on what this means for the future because that's what supposedly we're talking about so I'll try to be fairly quick things one we had.
Speaker Change: I already had the data out for a while.
Speaker Change: And you've been thoroughly reading them I assume and we had the press Corps already so let me start on page four with the summary.
Speaker Change: Somebody said this morning said better youre not getting bought by continuously reporting record numbers no. We are not bought by reporting record numbers.
Speaker Change: We actually very excited by our reporting record numbers, because it's quite hard to get there.
Speaker Change: 180 billion, 11% more revenues, 9% operating profit 10, 10 more core net income 12% more dividend per share also a really cool numbers many of them double digit.
Speaker Change: Core return on equity close to 17%, which is really where we want to be.
Speaker Change: On top of the one 5 billion share buybacks, we've done in 'twenty, four we announced yesterday 2 billion.
Speaker Change: Cause we have such a strong generation of earnings and cash let me hit that upfront before we have lots of question I had some very funny readings today, what does this 8 billion me ladies.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, we have tons of liquidity that we need at the holding that doesn't mean, we have tons of excess capital. We will have a very strong discipline in getting excess capital out to you when and if it's there. So we remain very disciplined because we are strongly incentivized to do that and we are.
Speaker Change: Striving a very careful balance between resilience are you, having very strong risk adjusted solvency, we will talk about their tube and.
Speaker Change: The ability to earn outstanding returns on invested capital.
Speaker Change: Let's quickly move forward page five.
Speaker Change: Many investors are interested what is the long term performance of our company. So that provides an interesting view over the last 10 years remember, we just celebrated our 136.
Speaker Change: Anniversary this month.
Speaker Change: Actually two weeks ago, and we're very proud that over the last 10 years. Our performance has consistently improved when you see in terms of growth rates, whether that's on revenues and profits and we aim to continue that also in 'twenty, one I still remember like yesterday. When we asked is the plan given with not a bit ambitious in terms of 160 billion.
To get there.
180 billion, 11% more revenues, 9% operating profit, 10% more core net income 12% dividend per share also a really cool numbers many of them double digit.
Core return on equity close to 17%, which is really where we want to be.
Speaker Change: Revenues of more than $14 5 billion and operating profit or 25.
On top of the $1 5 billion share buybacks, we've done in 'twenty, four we announced yesterday 2 billion because we have such a strong generation of earnings and cash let me hit that upfront before we have lots of question I had some very funny readings today, what does this 8 billion me ladies.
Speaker Change: Euros earnings per share we have met all those targets, even though that was not easy and all of the Titan as a consequence also dividend per shares growing now from 'twenty one to today on a compound rate of 12, 6% 15.4 euros very important number because many of our shareholders are also.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have tons of liquidity that we need at the holding that doesn't mean, we have tons of excess capital. We will have a very strong discipline in getting excess capital out to you when and if it's there. So we remain very disciplined because we are strongly incentivized to do that and we are.
Speaker Change: So engineers that need strong dividends and reliable dividends to support their retirement and we're very proud to support that now.
Speaker Change: Great financials at the outcome of a strong enterprise.
Speaker Change: Very very strong limits in my opinion to financial engineering therefore.
Driving a very careful balance between resilience are you, having very strong risk adjusted solvency will talk about their tube and.
Speaker Change: Highly satisfied customers in highly motivated people are at the core of our corporate success.
The ability to own and then returns on invested capital.
Speaker Change: <unk> tries to demonstrate that very clearly interestingly enough, we had a slight dip last year and customer satisfaction because of the very strong price increases we had to take to protect our shareholders margins in particularly in property casualty. So despite very strong investments in the brand do you see the brand performance continuously improving also last year in.
Let's quickly move forward page five.
Many investors are interested what is the long term performance of our company. So that provides an interesting view over the last 10 years remember, we just celebrated our 136.
Diversity this months.
Speaker Change: Our product.
Speaker Change: Service quantities.
Actually two weeks ago, and we're very proud that over the last 10 years outperformance has consistently improved when you see in terms of growth rates, whether that's on revenues and profits and we aim to continue that also in 'twenty, one I still remember like yesterday. When we asked is the plan given COVID-19 not a bit ambitious in terms of 160 billion.
Speaker Change: Customer feedback was very strong and we need to work on them only outstanding products and also a price value perception protects us and protects our margins. So that's an interesting.
Speaker Change: Reminder, particularly on what we would call loyalty leadership Youll see that the three data points.
Speaker Change: So a little bit of a plateauing. So we're going to give us an extra push to bring loyalty leadership to 60% plus and you'll see that in the targets on employee satisfaction and motivation. We have now achieved benchmark status in our industry, we're very proud of that and with that I hand over I just on branding because a lot of people said.
Revenues of more than $14 5 billion and operating profit of 25.
Earnings per share we have met all those targets, even though that was not easy and all of the Titan as a consequence also dividend per shares growing now from 'twenty one to come.
Pound rate of <unk>, 6% 15.4 euros very important number because many of our shareholders are also engineers that need strong dividends and reliable dividends to support their retirement and we're very proud to support that now.
Speaker Change: Why is brand important for those that are not experts on it.
Speaker Change: Net promoter score in terms of their willingness and ability to recommend Allianz one of the most important thing is brand and in terms of purchasing the schism, ladies and gentlemen don't forget a product that is low involvement like auto insurance in the mind of many consumers.
Great financials at the outcome of a strong enterprise. They are very very strong limits in my opinion to financial engineering. Therefore.
Speaker Change: The power of the brand is the only thing they see for purchasing decision if youre, a cynic they'll say I don't care anything else than full price. If you ever had a bad claims experience you think again.
Highly satisfied customers in highly motivated people are at the core of our corporate success.
Speaker Change: And therefore, the brand as it stands for and the trust in the brand remains Super important and in my personal opinion will massively increase in importance going forward.
<unk> tries to demonstrate that very clearly interestingly enough, we had a slight dip last year and customer satisfaction because of the very strong price increases we had to take to protect our shareholders margins in particularly in property casualty. So despite very strong investments in the brand you'll see the brand performance continuously improving also last year in.
Speaker Change: Now in terms of performance all segments have contributed strongly over the last few years not just the last year again. The reason why I showed this the story is consistent over time, and we look forward to that.
Our product.
And service quantities.
Customer feedback was very strong and we work on them only outstanding products and also price value perception protects us and protects our margins. So that's an interesting.
Speaker Change: Also over the next 36 months for a plan when there's tons of data to support the performance, whether that's consistent internal growth, whether that's consistent expense ratio improvement and making sure we get effective price increases into the motor portfolio, which has been under most pressure on retail.
Reminder, particularly on what we would call loyalty leadership Youll see that the three data points, so a little bit of a plateauing. So we're going to give us an extra push to bring loyalty leadership to 60% plus and you'll see that in the targets on employee satisfaction and motivation we've now achieved benchmark.
Speaker Change: Life and how it's the same.
Speaker Change: <unk> of growth in new business has been extremely strong and new business margin used to be below 3%, just seven or eight years ago. It's now trending above five clearly with further optimized business mix and we had a very strong third party net flows, particularly relative to industry last year and we have continue.
Others in our industry, we're very proud of that and with that I hand over just on brining because a lot of people said why is brand important for those that are not experts on it.
Net promoter score in terms of the willingness and ability to recommend Allianz one of the most important thing is brand and in terms of purchasing the schism, ladies and gentlemen don't forget a product that is low involvement like auto insurance in the mind of many consumers.
Speaker Change: Mostly.
Speaker Change: Improved our cost income ratio. So all operating items, we keep on improving and I'd like to remind on asset management that we are one of the few places that have very strong third party AUM margins, which speaks to the quality of the business and not just to the scale now let me move on to the segments.
The power of the brand is the only thing they see for purchasing decision if youre a send that you'll say I don't care anything else than full price. If you ever had a bad claims experience you think again.
Property casualty is talking we're still reporting in three segments today growth momentum strong profitability balanced between commercial and retail.
And therefore, the brand as it stands for and the trust in the brand remains Super important and in my personal opinion will massively increase in importance going forward.
Speaker Change: And very strong ambitions for 2020 795 billion approximately in operating profit that equates.
Now in terms of performance all segments have.
Speaker Change: Has a component of it that is about 6% to 7% revenue growth just to give you a benchmark that's about double of what we had historically the same held true for life and health.
Contributed strongly over the last few years not just the last year again. The reason why I showed this the story is consistent over time, and we look forward to that.
Speaker Change: One of the few strong life insurers really left that are growing the business very strongly at <unk>.
So over the next 36 months for our plan when there's tons of data to support the performance, whether that's consistent internal growth, whether that's consistent expense ratio improvement and making sure we get effective price increases into the motor portfolio, which has been under most pressure on retail life.
Speaker Change: Getting it to very strong value grows why because over the last 10 years and beyond we've been optimizing our product mix the capital consumption and we keep on innovating Scone said you saw in the fall and just as a reiteration, it's not a one off we want to continue to.
And how is the same.
Value of growth in new business has been extremely strong.
Scone: Scale. These solutions not just for enforced but also for new business flows. So by 2027, we want to have about 6 billion and operating profit that means we need and want to grow operating from unit linked and how some protection more strongly than the rest of the portfolio.
Business and used to be below 3%, just seven or eight years ago. It's now trending above five clearly with further optimized business mix and we had a very strong third party net flows, particularly relative to industry last year and we have continuously.
Scone: Again, the question was suddenly come why 6 billion why not more given where you are please keep in mind. This year, we're going to discontinue the joint venture with when he credits so that will have a downward effect at the beginning of the cycle.
Improved our cost income ratio. So all operating items, we keep on improving and I'd like to remind on asset management that we are one of the few places that have very strong third party AUM margins, which speaks to the quality of the business and not just to the scale now let me move on to the segments.
Scone: Asset management performance very strong flows 85 billion third party net flows last year. If you by the way look at profitability again, we had some questions isn't fortune up relative to prior not a little bit too little.
Property casualty is talking we're still reporting in three segments today growth momentum strong profitability balanced between commercial and retail.
Scone: 'twenty three we had very significant performance fees and they come lumpy they don't come sort of distribute it over quarters.
And very strong ambitions for 2020 795 billion approximately in operating profit that equates.
Scone: This year, we had less performance fee, let's see how 25 course, it's not something we can time, but my personal expectation is that operating profit needs to grow more than that when we've seen given the level of inflows and given.
Has a component of it that is about 6% to 7% revenue growth just to give you a benchmark that's about double of what we had historically the same is true for life and health.
One of the few strong life insurers really left that are growing the business very strongly and getting it to very strong value grows why because over the last 10 years and beyond we've been optimizing our product mix the capital consumption and we keep on innovating Scone said you saw in the <unk>.
Scone: Where yield curves are at the moment and we expect an average of about 8% and third party.
Scone: <unk> growth over the next three year cycle.
Scone: Very strong outlook. Despite the crisis, that's in our environment I will not speak about the slide we personally believe that's a 12, ladies and gentlemen, we have huge opportunities into where we are going to sort of concentrate on the protection side, that's basically P&C plus health and protection These underwriting.
And just as a reiteration, it's not a one off we want to continue to scale. These solutions not just for enforced but also for new business flows. So by 2027, we want to have about 6 billion and operating profit that means we need and want to grow operating from unit linked and housing.
Scone: Is that does a very very strong multiples because they grow and they have very strong performance in a very capital efficient and the retirement business that we've made a lot more capital efficient on the right hand side again, I will not talk about it is very important that the yield curve as we see them today.
<unk> more strongly than the rest of the portfolio.
Again. The question was certainly come why 6 billion why not more given where you are please keep in mind. This year, we're going to discontinue the joint venture with when he credits.
Scone: We're coming out of a very very odd.
Scone: <unk> of years in terms of you'd called forms will support very strong earnings for us going forward.
Have a downward effect at the beginning of the cycle.
Scone: There's three specific things we want to do page 13 gives you a little bit of an overview of what we're trying to do drive growth a lot more smartly than in the past, let me talk about that.
Asset management performance very strong flows 85 billion third party net flows last year. If you by the way look at profitability again, we had some questions isn't 4% up relative to prior not a little bit too little.
Scone: Keep on reinforcing productivity, we have a strong track record new technologies are enabling us to do a lot more.
'twenty three we had very significant performance fees and they come lumpy they don't come sort of distributed over quarters.
Scone: We are at a very important point in our trajectory from old legacy systems in the core insurance side.
This year, we had less performance fee, let's see how 25 course, it's not something we can time, but my personal expectation is that operating profit needs to grow more than that when we've seen given the level of inflows and given.
Scone: And to bring our Verticalizing into force over the next three to four years and strengthening our resilience king against shops. Further that's not just about financials. It's also organizational resilience can spend some more time on it.
Where yield coast.
Moment, and we expect an average of about 8% and third party.
Growth over the next three year cycle, so very strong outlook, despite the crisis debts.
Scone: All of that driving us and supporting our drive from being outstanding product producers and product sellers to become ever more customer driven and what we do.
Our environment I will not speak about the slide we personally believe that's a 12.
Scone: Talk about that P. J 14 gives you a little bit of a smell on the gross triathlon. It has three components, reducing churn is the most important increase in cross selling and winning new customers why do I talk about reducing churn as the most important one we have we went almost 10 million clients every year, but loose.
Gentlemen, we have huge opportunities into where we are going to sort of concentrate on the protection side, that's basically P&C plus health and protection. These underwriting businesses that deserve very very strong multiples because they grow and they have very strong performance in a very capital efficient and dairy.
Scone: Almost as many up two nine every year that means we have a big washing machine.
Time in business that we've made a lot more capital efficient on the right hand side again, I will not talk about it it's very important that the yield curve as we see them today as we're coming out of a very very odd.
Scone: And we can do a lot better by retaining the clients that we acquire and that translates into a volume growth ambition. That's about two times, what we have typically been.
Scone: It's also the most.
A number of years in terms of you'd called forms will support very strong earnings for us going forward.
Scone: Efficient way to grow and it's the most important and firstly ancillary and gentlemen, we are not looking to large M&A, we're not looking for large M&A to help us grow because it is much more expensive and working on our organic customer base now.
There's three specific things we want to do page 13 gives you a little bit of an overview of what we're trying to do drive growth a lot more smartly than in the past, let me talk about that.
Scone: Now our productivity just as a reminder, we are the only house that has been consistently driving up productivity. Since 2018, four full percentage points consistent improvement in expense ratio, we're going to translate that impact on transferred into the life and health segment, It's a very important area.
Keep on reinforcing productivity, we have a strong track record new technologies are enabling us to do a lot more a.
It's a very important point in our trajectory from old legacy systems in the core insurance side.
And to bring our Verticalizing into force over the next three to four years and strengthening our resilience king against shops. Further that's not just about financials. It's also organizational resilience, we can spend some more time on it.
Scone: To focus on.
Scone: In order to drive more value there and its not productivity is not just about the expense ratio. It's also about loss ratio. There's a lot more to come from our digital platforms like soft in order to bring prevention claims management and other value added services in to help us bring loss ratio down in a way that takes advantage of our scale.
All of that driving us and supporting our drive from being outstanding product producers and product sellers to become ever more customer driven and what we do and I'll talk about that P. J 14 gives you a little bit of a smell on the gross triathlon. It has three components.
Scone: Our resilience and the important number everyone always looks at what's the solvency ratio law. It's the solvency ratio after stress that matters and we have been continuously working on improving that so if you take the third row from the bottom the so-called comprised combined stress gives you indications it's Justin here.
Reducing churn is the most important increase in cross selling and winning new customers why do I talk about reducing churn as the most important one we have we went almost 10 million clients every year, but lose.
Most as many up to nine every year that means we have a big washing machine and we can do a lot better by retaining clients that we acquire and that translates into a volume growth ambition. That's about two times, what we have historically been done. It's also the most.
Scone: This is the modeled indication that we I'm trying to resilience against multiple shops.
Scone: Sharp shocks and we're trying to do that across metrics is not just solvency too.
Scone: Rating migration and a few other items plus net cat stress as the reinsurance market is now a softening and we're getting even more capacity will be very clever around where we take risks and we take them, where we get paid for them properly.
One way to grow and it's the most important and firstly ancillary and gentlemen, we're not looking to large M&A, we're not looking for large M&A to help us grow because it is much more expensive and working on our organic customer base now productivity is just as a reminder, we are the only how's that.
Scone: Therefore uplifting ambition. This is just repeating what we said at the capital markets Day, That's my last comment before I hand over to Clemmer.
It's been consistently driving up productivity.
Clemmer: Respect, we're not changing the numbers that we have communicated at the capital market days, we had just confirming now that we have ample opportunity to deliver on them. So we're very confident.
2018, four full percentage points consistent improvement in expense ratio, we're going to translate that impact on transferred into the life and health segment, It's a very important area to focus on.
Clemmer: Despite the sometimes horrific political environment, we can do that's moving EPS growth.
In order to drive more value there and its not productivity is not just about the expense ratio. It's also about loss ratio. There is a lot more to come from our digital platforms like soft in order to bring prevention claims management and other value added services.
Clemmer: Up to 7% to 9% capital generation on solvency, 224% to 25% ROA North of 17 payout ratio of 75%.
Clemmer: Again, the technicians will last how do you calculate that primary will be delighted to tell you, how we calculate that and.
To help us bring loss ratio down in a way that takes advantage of our scale.
Clemmer: On customer satisfaction, making sure we have more than 60% loyalty leaders, we have to be firming up the ante now it hasnt been easy to be fair in a high inflation environment by the way also with regards to life crediting rates and as being now a benchmark on.
Now resilience and the important number everyone always looks at what's the solvency ratio law, it's the solvency ratio after stress that matters.
We have been continuously working on improving that so if you take the third row from the bottom. The so-called comprises combined stress gives you an indication that's just in the US is the modeled indication that we are trying to improve resilience against multiple post shop.
<unk>, which is our indicator for employee.
Clemmer: Motivation on the benchmark basis, we have lots of things to do but it's not about the number it's now about continuing the join me. So I. Thank you very much for this listening to my very condensed summary of a spectacular year for Allianz and thank you for being out.
Sharp shocks and we are trying to do that across metrics is not just solvency too.
Rating migration and a few other items plus net cat stress as the reinsurance market is now a softening and we're getting even more capacity will be very clever, where we take risks and we take them, where we get paid for them properly there.
Clemmer: In this journey to all the shareholders and all the supporting us and certainly things to our people.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you very much Anita and good morning. Good afternoon, everyone as mentioned already by earlier, we have achieved in 2020 for a very strong performance and we have reached a record of research on multiple dimensions from our life unless life in its top line to our operating Pussy-toes swim segments net income and all.
Speaker Change: Therefore uplifting ambition. This is just repeating what we said at the capital markets Day. That's my last comment before I hand over to Clem and respect we're not changing the numbers that we have communicated at the capital market days, we had just confirming now that we have ample opportunity to deliver on them. So we're very confident.
Speaker Change: As well notwithstanding almost at 17% and more fundamental.
Speaker Change: Despite the sometimes horrific political environment, we can do that so moving EPS growth.
Speaker Change: Clearly demonstrates two things.
Speaker Change: One our ability to navigate a complex environment as we are tapping into the resilience of our business.
Clem: Up to 7% to 9% capital generation on solvency, 224% to 25% ROA North of 17 payout ratio of 75% against the technicians will last how do you calculate that primary will be delighted to tell you, how we calculate that and.
Speaker Change: And second yeah constant focus on value creation for all stakeholders.
Speaker Change: If I go into more detail on page three you can see our top line at 180 billion, which is at 12% and year all segments are contributing.
Clem: On customer satisfaction, making sure we have more than 60% loyalty leaders, we have to be firming up the ante now it hasnt been easy to be fair in a high inflation environment by the way also with regards to life crediting rates and as being now a benchmark on.
Speaker Change: On the operating profit side as well in all segments contributing to the growth, which is 9% compared to last year and we I imagine at 16 billion.
Speaker Change: It's clearly very pleasing to see as well in our numbers in the transition from operating profit to net income is very key.
Clem: Hi makes our indicator for employee motivation.
Clem: Our motivation on the benchmark basis, we have lots of things to do but it's not about the number it's now about continuing the join me. So I. Thank you very much for this listening to my very condensed summary of a spectacular year for Allianz and thank you for being our supporters.
Speaker Change: And this is a leading us to a core EPS, which is at 12% compared to last year and is as well at least 25 point 42 euros.
Speaker Change: Well, we now need to point, despite extra easy accounting change between <unk>, 17, and nine which means kinder and I, even stronger compared to what we had thought about in the capital market day in 2021.
Clem: This journey to all the shareholders and all the supporting us and certainly things to our people.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much Anita and good morning, good afternoon, everyone as mentioned already by all either we have achieved in 2020 for a very strong performance and we have reached record results on multiple dimensions from our life unless life in its top line to our operating Pussy-toes Green segments net income and <unk>.
Speaker Change: On the P&C side, you can see high level of rules recalled operating profit and I'm going to go into more detail in a minute on the life and it's a very strong demand for our product at a higher level of new business margin, which is leading to a record value of new business, which is up 18% compared to last year.
Clem: Well, notwithstanding almost at 17% and <unk>.
Speaker Change: More fundamentally those.
Speaker Change: And yes, it's management side, our shut off net flows.
Speaker Change: The research clearly demonstrates two things.
Speaker Change: One our ability to navigate a complex environment as we are tapping into the resilience of our business.
Speaker Change: At eight 5 million.
Speaker Change: For the year, which is first time soon.
Speaker Change: 23.
Speaker Change: Which together, we just hung focus we had on push at ABB team loose on the expense side.
Speaker Change: And secondly, our constant focus on value creation for all stakeholders.
Speaker Change: If I go into more detail on <unk>.
Speaker Change: The focus on the good margin, yes, it and our management, which is partially offset by the lower level of performance fees as well as already mentioned is the leading to an operating profit which is too.
Speaker Change: <unk> you can see our top line at $180 billion, which is at 12% and year all segments are contributing.
Speaker Change: Similarly on the operating profit side as well all segments contributing to the growth, which is 9% compared to last year and we are imagining at 16 billion.
Speaker Change: Too cheap line too.
Speaker Change: If we move to the soft quarter on.
Speaker Change: On the Standalone basis.
Speaker Change: That's clearly very pleasing to see as well in our numbers in the transition from operating profit to net income is that it's very clean.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah, you can clearly see that the quarter is continuing with a very strong momentum that we have seen already in the previous three quarters.
Speaker Change: And this is a leading us to a core EPS, which is at 12% compared to last year and this as well at least 25 point 42 euros.
Speaker Change: If I start when you go to you.
Speaker Change: Our total business volume is very high growing at 16% across all three segments.
Speaker Change: We now need to point, despite actually accounting change between <unk> 17, and nine which means the end on an.
Speaker Change: We can push it is highest when at some point 2 billion, which is our strongest quarter for the year.
Speaker Change: He then stronger compared to what we had sort of.
Speaker Change: Well.
Speaker Change: Recall that there are 18, plus it literally in a single quarter for the group.
Speaker Change: The market in 2021.
Speaker Change: On the P&C side, you can see high level of rules recalled operating profit and I'm going to go into more detail.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: And we have achieved this level of operating profit in the quarter.
Speaker Change: And we have almost no run off on the P&C side and a much lower level of performance fees is just last year on the asset management side. So clearly there is strong performance excellent performance in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: On the life and it's a very strong demand for our product at a higher level of new business margin, which is leading to a record value of new business.
Speaker Change: 18% compared to last year.
Speaker Change: If we look at the P. S. P&C segment on a standalone basis, you can see a high level of growth at 11% exactly of that of course is the highest level of course, we have seen in the year in the quarter and we think that it is <unk>, 5% of volume growth.
Speaker Change: And yes, it's management side, our shut the T net flows.
Speaker Change: At 85 million for the year, which is four times in 2023, which together we just hung focus we had on push at ABB team loose on the expense side.
Susan: Our combined ratio is at 94 point Susan.
Speaker Change: Is it focused on the goods margin is around yes, it and our management, which is partially offset by the lower level.
Susan: Clearly higher compared to the combined ratio level, we have seen in the previous quarter.
Speaker Change: And then she's as already mentioned is the leading to an operating profit which is up.
Susan: And that's entirely linked to the very low level.
Susan: Fair enough.
Speaker Change: To chipotle to ambien.
Susan: We have seen in the in the first quarter on a standalone base.
Speaker Change: If we move to the third quarter.
Susan: You need to see and we will come to the need to that one that our investment features has been particularly high in the fourth quarter and we also have some positive developments.
Speaker Change: On the Standalone.
Speaker Change: On page five.
Speaker Change: Here, you can clearly see that the quarter Adam.
Speaker Change: Continuing with a very strong momentum that we have seen already in the previous three quarters.
Susan: Attritional and in all in expense ratio, which basically gave us an opportunity to do tactical strengthening of our balance sheet.
Speaker Change: If I start with the go to you.
Speaker Change: Total business volume is very high growing at 16% across all three segments.
Susan: So this situation is leading us to an operating profit at 20, they more than 20% compared to last year and imaging at $1 9 billion.
Speaker Change: Operating profit is high as well at $4 2 billion, which is our strongest quarter for the year and ease as well.
Susan: Which is very strong.
Susan: The life on that side.
Susan: Very high level of growth and which is in the continuation of the short quarter and that growth is and it's actually been emerging across the portfolio.
Speaker Change: The operating profit literally in a single quarter for the unknowns.
Speaker Change: And we have achieved this level of operating push it in the quarter.
Susan: He is a group of high quality new business margin at 555.
Speaker Change: As we had almost no runoff on the P&C side and a much lower performance fees versus last year on the asset management side. So clearly there is strong performance excellent performance in the first quarter.
Susan: The scent and this is leading to a value of new business, which is up 17% compared to last year.
Susan: On the asset management side.
Susan: I'll now revenue growth is a positive despite delaware.
Speaker Change: Look at the piece you can see segment on the standard.
Speaker Change: You can see a high level of growth at 11% is that number of course is the highest level of course, we have seen in the year in the quarter and we think that he didn't essentially a 5% volume growth.
Susan: Nancy that's the I've seen year by the way last year was the ratio on the hand, we have seen 17 billion of net flows.
Susan: In the quarter stemming from our booth asset managers and we have a very very good cost income ratio for the quarter, She keeps us and which is leading us to a.
Speaker Change: Our combined ratio is at 94 point season, and was that clearly higher compared to the combined ratio level, we have seen in the previous quarter and that's entirely linked to the very low level of run off now is that we have seen in the in the fourth quarter understandable in the east and you need to see.
Susan: And good level of operating profit in the quarter. So as you can see very clearly the soft cluster is a very strong base to one to 2025 on which we can build on as we move into the new year.
Speaker Change: And we will come to the immediate to that one that our investments. We just had in particularly high in the fourth quarter and we also have seen positive developments in our attritional and in all in expense ratio, which basically gave us an opportunity to do tactical strengthening of our balance sheet.
Susan: Let's move to page seven and let's have a look at the solvency ratio development. So our solvency ratio Egypt three percentage point.
Susan: As already mentioned, we had a reduced level of sandy tdk's overall.
Speaker Change: And so as this situation is leading us to an operating profit at 20, <unk> by more than 20% compared to last year and ending at $1 9 billion.
Susan: In addition to the point that <unk> already made on the.
Susan: Combined stress test what you can also see issue really hit.
Susan: With a bit of a longer time period than you do against 2021, and two combined stress test.
Speaker Change: Which is very strong.
Speaker Change: On the lifestyle side, you can see very high level of growth and which is in the continuation of the short quarter and that growth is and it's actually been emerging across the portfolio.
Susan: <unk> compare to that point in time would you basically now means that the aftershock.
Susan: 182, Central this key ratio, which is within our comfort zone. So clearly demonstrating the progress we have made in terms of resilience of our solvency ratio.
Speaker Change: This is a group of high quality new business margin at 555.
Speaker Change: Sent and this is leading to a value of new business, which is up 17% compared to last year.
Susan: During that period.
Susan: If you move to page benign.
Susan: You can see that for the full year, we have produced a 20 percentage point of our operating capital generation, which is fully in line with our expectations.
Speaker Change: On the asset management side.
Our revenue growth is positive despite the lower level of set of comments is that we have seen.
Speaker Change: By the way last year was the ratio on the high end.
Susan: Last quarter on a standalone basis and it also puts us this tool as well also operating capital generation fully in line with our expectations and similar to the one we have seen in the quarter.
Speaker Change: C 17 billion of net flows in.
Speaker Change: In the quarter stemming from our boost asset managers and we have a very very good cost income ratio for the quarter, She keeps us and which is leading us to a.
Susan: In addition in the first quarter, we have seen a bogey.
Susan: Who do you see this ethylene from the model changes and we had two effects that contributed to.
Speaker Change: And good level of operating profit in the quarter. So as you can see very clearly the software is a very strong base to one to 2025 on which we can build on as we move into the new year.
Susan: Two two.
Susan: Set of that effect first of all we had the market impact, which I think is a bit higher compared to what.
Speaker Change: Let's move to page seven and let's have a look at the solvency ratio development. So our solvency ratio Egypt three percentage point.
Susan: What some of you may have anticipated attuned to the fact that we had seen a bit of decoupling on the inside between the U S N V and Europe in curve and so you can see we had to tweak.
Speaker Change: As already mentioned, we had a reduced level of sandy tdk's overall.
Susan: European E.
Susan: Cannot anticipate because our stressed easier, Brazil, Thailand shift between the two.
Speaker Change: In addition to the point that <unk> already made on the.
Susan: Okay.
Speaker Change: Combined stress test what you can also see issue really hit.
Susan: The second effect is the fact that we have the higher dividend.
Speaker Change: With a bit of a longer time period than you do against 2021, and two combined stress test.
Susan: Cruel to reflect outperformance as that contributed also to the developmental solvency ratio.
Speaker Change: <unk> compare to that point in time would you basically now means that the aftershock.
Susan: So clearly our capital generation is a focus for us.
Susan: And in 2025 will be continuously working on our earnings and our capital consumption as well, we expect at least 20 percentage point.
Speaker Change: We are above 180 to a central Lynch <unk> ratio, which is within our comfort zone. So clearly demonstrating the progress we have made in terms of resilience of our solvency ratio.
Susan: As a 20 percentage point us.
Speaker Change: During that staggered.
Susan: Operating capital generation in 2025, and we will continue to execute to answer the 24 to 25 percentage point.
Speaker Change: If you move a benign.
Speaker Change: We can see that for the full year.
Speaker Change: Produce a 20 percentage point of operating capital generation, which is fully in line with our expectations.
Susan: Capital generation ambition, and we Havent given to us as part of the capital market day in December.
The fourth quarter on a standalone basis as always.
Susan: Let's move to P&C on page 11.
Speaker Change: So please use this tool is one of the operating capital generation fully in line with our expectations and similar to the one we have seen in the third quarter.
Susan: On this page, which I think is very nice and really demonstrating the quality of the also causes a portfolio. You can first of all she just swung a little bit of growth, which is at 8% I mean, she bought it as well.
Speaker Change: In addition in the soft quarter, we have seen a pretty.
Speaker Change: Is it coming from the model changes and we had two effects that contributed to.
Susan: Bye bye.
Susan: By some inflation effect seeing pharma at check in Argentina, we didn't see 8% growth.
Speaker Change: Two two.
Speaker Change: Net of that effect first of all we had a market impact, which I think is a bit higher compared to what.
Susan: We have seen 6% afraid to effects of iced teas all humanity.
Speaker Change: What some of you may have anticipated getting to the fact that we had seen a bit of decoupling on the inside between the U S. N V and euro curve and so you can see we had to twist.
Susan: And each were two compares a rate change on renewal quarter. After quarter, you will see that our rate momentum has been decreasing in the second half of the year in particular.
Speaker Change: In Europe, and Israel that you cannot anticipate decrease either.
Susan: To the United Kingdom in Etfs, and we have seen also a volume pickup doing during that time.
Speaker Change: He said, Brazil, Thailand shift and no trees.
Speaker Change: And the second effect is there.
Susan: On the liner business does take TD cubic at the full year and we see that most of our retail has been growing about 11% for the full year and also on the medical side, we had seen a growth which is above 11% and is very much reflective I think of the commercial strategy. We have started in 2023.
Speaker Change: Fact that we have a higher dividend.
Speaker Change: Cruel to reflect outperformance as that contributed also to the developmental solvency ratio.
Speaker Change: So clearly capital generation is a focus for us.
Speaker Change: And in 2025 will be continuously working on our earnings and our capital consumption as well, we expect at least 20 percentage point.
So on the page to see you.
Susan: You can see that the growth is very widespread.
Speaker Change: As a 20 percentage point us.
Susan: How flexible.
Speaker Change: Of operating capital generation in 2025, and we will continue to execute to answer 24 to 25 percentage point.
Susan: You can see that on the Germany, France, Italy, Australia as an example.
Susan: You can see as well that ETS.
Susan: An exception to the rest of the portfolio on that page has seen a decrease mainly related to the fact that we have lower volume in a in a piece right now is transfer and we also as being selective in our underwriting for Cushing on a pre sell line of the business and also being careful on financial lines and cyber and.
Speaker Change: We can get cogeneration ambition and we havent given to us as part of the capital market day in December.
Speaker Change: Let's move to PMT on page 11.
Speaker Change: On this page, which I think is very nice and really demonstrating the quality of the also causes portfolio you can set up for a little.
Speaker Change: Ralph Goose, which is at 8%.
Tom: In particular, given where the rates Tom and Dan.
And then she thought she does well buy some.
Susan: On partner, that's where you see a 3%.
Speaker Change: Bye.
Susan: She person rules clearly young partners the growth has been split into two parts of the year first part obviously here, we get to you to do some remediation in two spot for you in particular on the hedge side to address the inflationary effects and in the second half of the year, we had some very familiar but of course in the portfolio.
Speaker Change: The inflation effect coming from Turkey, and Argentina, 8%.
Speaker Change: We have seen 6% afraid to effect the rest is all humanity.
Speaker Change: And if you were to compare the rate change on renewal quarter. After quarter, you will see that our rate momentum has been decreasing in the second half of the year in particular.
Susan: In particular, the fourth quarter.
Susan: 14%.
Speaker Change: To the United Kingdom, and ETS and we have seen also a volume pickup doing during that tenure on the.
Susan: Gross.
Susan: If we go to page 13.
Susan: Here you can see that the operating profits is talking to us and that's driven by Bush. The insurance salvage features and your investment result.
Your line of business that <unk>, you look at the full year and we see that most of our retail has been growing about 11% for the fear and also on the medical side, we had seen a growth which is above 11% and is very much reflective I think of the commercial strategy. We have started in 2023.
Susan: And if you look at the walk.
Andrew.
Susan: If you look at the if you look at the walk you can see in particular.
Speaker Change: So on the page.
Susan: So you can see those two emergence from funds those two effects. So when you met at seven 9 billion also operating profit, which is ahead of our midpoint outlook.
Speaker Change: You can see that the growth is very widespread.
Speaker Change: How flexible.
Speaker Change: You can see that on a in Germany, France, Italy, Australia as an example.
Speaker Change: You can see as well that ETS.
Susan: And if you look at the year on year development of our operating insurance reserves, plus 16% and he's made up most of most of our revenues, which has been the eighth central and yeah and then the margin expansion. So our combined ratio is imagining at 93 point from which he said that oil and Ah.
Speaker Change: An exception to the rest of the portfolio on that page as seen decrease mainly related to the fact that we have lower volume in our in ear piece right. Now is transfer and we also as being selective in our underwriting so focusing on a pre sell line of the business and also being careful on financial lines and cyber and.
Susan: Our two French.
Susan: And you can tell it seemed just please try and expected improvement in the expense ratio.
Speaker Change: In particular, given where the rates here and there.
Speaker Change: And on partner, that's where you see a 3%.
Susan: And this country. The Attritional loss ratio has also improved by the way is to correct.
Speaker Change: She person.
Speaker Change: Leon partners the growth has been split into two parts of the year first part obviously here we get to.
Susan: The development of <unk> and discontinued Attritional loss ratio for New Caledonia, and Ash transaction then.
Speaker Change: To do some remediation in two spot for you in particular on the hedge side to address the inflationary effect and in the second half of the year. We had some very familiar of course into portfolio of partners in particular out of the fourth quarter.
Susan: Get to and then discontinue the Attritional loss ratio of 71 to 71, five which is exactly what we expected to see and he is also in line I think what I would use as a reference for 2025 onwards.
Speaker Change: 14%.
Speaker Change: Gross.
Susan: You can see clearly we had a lower level of Nat cats compared to our expected cat load of 3%, which is also at its too soon that would come and demonstrates the strength of our underwriting because we are below our five year average why does the rest of the insurance market is above just like you have rent. So it's there.
Speaker Change: If we go to page 13 here.
Speaker Change: Hit at the operating profit is talking to us and that's driven by Bush the insurance salvage features and your investment.
Speaker Change: Yet.
Speaker Change: And if you look at the work and <unk>.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Susan: Much as increasingly king with visa.
Speaker Change: If you look at the if you look at the walk you can see in particular.
Susan: So do you I provided at the capital market day, whereas the volatility of our own loss ratio is much lower compared to the rest of the market clearly lower level of runoff.
Speaker Change: So you can see those two emergence from from those two effects. So when you met at seven 9 billion also.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Head of our midpoint outlook.
The reason I already mentioned previously.
If you look at the year on year development of our operating insurance reserves, plus 16% and he's made up most of most of our revenues, which has been the eighth central and yeah, and then the margin expansion.
Susan: If we go to page 15.
Susan: Which is a very good page that's.
Susan: That's clearly highlighting the overall quality and breadth of our portfolio you can see as an example, I E.
Susan: The output.
Susan: Work that has been done by the team in the UK or in Australia to address inflation and also to enhance our positioning in the market that is showing up in the operating profit.
Speaker Change: Our combined ratio is imaging at 93 point from which he said Jabil will end of our outlook range.
Speaker Change: And you can tell it seemed just petrine expected improvement in the expense ratio.
Speaker Change: And Germany that TJ imagining Lisa.
Speaker Change: And each country. The Attritional loss ratio has also improved by the way is to correct.
Speaker Change: Almost 18% improvement of operating profit despite the high desert of Nat Cat, we have seen the second quarter, you can see Italy.
Speaker Change: The development of all and this country the Attritional loss ratio for New Caledonia, and Ash transaction then.
While Europe are Switzerland.
Speaker Change: You'll get to an English consider attritional loss ratio of 71 to 71, five which is exactly what we expected to see and is also in line I think what I would use as a reference for 2025 on one what you can see them.
Speaker Change: <unk> combined ratio.
Speaker Change: <unk> is down in operating profit.
Speaker Change: Due to run off and higher level of Nat Cats and partners is actually imagine with 11% growth in operating profit, which is fully in line with our kitchen market expectations.
Speaker Change: Lower level of Nat cats.
Speaker Change: If you go to page 17, and we have looked at our investment results.
Speaker Change: Compared to our expected cat load of 3%, which is also his tongue soon that would come and demonstrates the strength of our underwriting because we are below our five year average why does the rest of the insurance market is above.
Speaker Change: You can see that you can see that the outlet center sent our interest and similar income in Nashville.
Speaker Change: He began which is approximately 400 million Boone our guidance from last year.
Speaker Change: Just like you have rent so it very much.
Speaker Change: Increasingly king with visa.
Speaker Change: So you might call it adapts to the west.
Speaker Change: And that's linked to a twist ex may need. The first one is that we have seen higher short term rates.
Speaker Change: I'll actually tee off of our own loss ratio is much lower compared to the rest of the market clearly.
Speaker Change: Our rates in 2024 compared to what we were anticipating and we also had some positive contribution from our Idaho inflation countries in particular in the fourth quarter into into that number.
Speaker Change: Clearly lower level of runoff for the reason I already mentioned previously.
Speaker Change: If we go to page 15.
Speaker Change: Which is a very good page.
Speaker Change: That's clearly highlighting the overall quality and breadth of our portfolio you can see as an example.
Speaker Change: Which basically means that it has created in the first quarter on the underwriting side, which is reflected in the very low level a friend of that you have seen in the in the fourth quarter oil rates.
Speaker Change: Output.
Speaker Change: That has been done by the team in the U K or in Australia to address inflation and also to enhance our positioning in the market that is showing up in the operating profit.
Speaker Change: Our interest accretion is at minus $1 2 billion, which is fully in line with what we were anticipating at the beginning of the year.
Speaker Change: You can see and Germany that TJ mentioning with Oh.
Speaker Change: For 2025, I expect on the investment we just signed to see slightly lower level of investment results. As we are going to see higher level of interest accretion, but you keep taking further discounting we have seen this year and also I expect a slightly lower level of interest and similar income.
Speaker Change: Almost 18% improvement of operating profit despite the high desert of Nat Cat, we have seen the second quarter, you can see Italy.
Speaker Change: While Europe are Switzerland.
Speaker Change: And is that sort of combined ratio.
Speaker Change: Yes, he's down in operating profit.
Speaker Change: Due to runoff in higher level of Nat cats.
The reason I just mentioned.
Speaker Change: And partners is actually energy with 11% growth in operating profit, which is fully in line with our capital market day expectation.
Speaker Change: So let me recap on TNT, we are clearly well positioned for 2025 as we build on 2024 in retail we expect growth in our Super keys in a rate environment and in commercial as the situation is for us to be nuanced by entities, but the level of rates clearly he's room for focused growth.
Speaker Change: If you go to page 17, and we have looked at our investment results. You can see that you can see that the outlet center sent our interest and similar income in Nashville.
Speaker Change: And also for us to tap into some of our distinctive entities like partners as an example.
Speaker Change: He began which is approximately $400 million above our guidance from last year.
Speaker Change: If I move to life on page 19, and Sydney excellent page you can see the high level I level of quality and breadth of our gross momentum our <unk> is up 22% and that double digit growth is across your portfolio.
Speaker Change: And that's linked to a twist indeed, the first one is that we have seen higher shut them down.
Speaker Change: Rates in 2024 compared to what we were anticipating and we also had some positive contribution from our Idaho inflation countries in particular in the fourth quarter into into that number which basically means that it has created in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: It's clearly highlighting the demand for our product.
Speaker Change: What is also speaking to XI as an example is a it's a German health business that youre growing almost at Cherokee Hi, Doug.
Speaker Change: The underwriting side, which is reflected in the very low level a friend of that you have seen in the in the fourth quarter oil rates.
Speaker Change: Compared to last year, which is clearly I would put us eating walked a structurally on the products and they can put us at offering a better features and also higher service quality.
Speaker Change: Our interest accretion is at minus one 2 billion, which is fully in line with what we were anticipating at the beginning of the year.
Speaker Change: And too many competitors on the market.
Speaker Change: For 2025, I expect on the investment we just signed to see slightly lower level of investment results as we are going to see higher level of interest accretion.
Speaker Change: So he goes as I mentioned is of high quality and we have an excellent level of new business margin and we are growing in our presort line of business at 94%.
Speaker Change: Taking further discounting we have seen this year and also I expect a slightly lower level of interest and similar income.
Speaker Change: Value of new business is at $4 7 billion, which is up 18% compared to last year or so.
Speaker Change: So I think worthwhile to note.
Speaker Change: Can I just mentioned.
Speaker Change: Fact that we.
Speaker Change: So let me recap on TNT, we are clearly well positioned for 2025 as we build on 2024 in retail we expect growth in the ship Rockies a rate environment and in commercial situation is for us to be Wednesday entities, but the level of rates clearly east room for focused growth.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: <unk> net flows.
Speaker Change: Our life and as portfolio since the first quarter after obviously here.
Speaker Change: Moving to page 21, you can see that the high level of value of new business is translating itself into a high level of normalized CSM growth, which is above 6% and which is also above our expected range of 4% to 5%.
Speaker Change: And also for us to tap into some of our distinctive ntt's like partners as an example.
Very present as well too she is a very low level of <unk>, we have a D. Here.
Speaker Change: If I move to life on page 19.
Speaker Change: She is around 4% of our CSM and as that concludes the update of the lapse assumptions in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: Really excellent page you can see the high level.
Speaker Change: I live in a quality and breadth of our gross momentum our <unk> is up 22% and that double digit growth is across your portfolio.
Speaker Change: We owe to our non economic as I N T were positive in the in the fourth quarter on a standalone basis.
Speaker Change: Clearly highlighting the demand for our product.
Speaker Change: Yes, I'm really fully in line with expectations and I'll send utilities remain at low levels.
Speaker Change: What is also super peaking too. She has an example is a German health business that youre growing almost at 35% compared to last year, which is clearly I would put us eating booked structurally on their products and we can put us at offering a better features and also higher service quality compare to.
Speaker Change: If I move to page 23.
Speaker Change: Basically from the transition and released to the operating profits are still a bit of noise in between the line items as we are still fine tuning.
Speaker Change: Our legacy effect of IL 17, and nine overall, our operating profit is at $5 5 billion, which is well at both Amit pointed out look.
Speaker Change: Many competitors on the market.
Speaker Change: So he goes as I mentioned is of high quality and we have an excellent level of new business margin and we are growing in our presort line of business at 94%.
Speaker Change: On the right hand side, you can see a good development of our operating profit by operating entities.
Speaker Change: Value of new business is at $4 7 billion, which is up 18% compared to last year also I think worthwhile to note is the fact that Oh, yes.
Speaker Change: Our our German life NTT East.
Speaker Change: 10% U S.
Speaker Change: Don on this page that actually that he needs to a technical issue.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: If you correct for.
Speaker Change: Positive net flows.
Speaker Change: Does that onesie and donate inaugurating push it is up by more than 6%.
Speaker Change: Our license portfolio since the first quarter after obviously here.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: What also is very nice and despite choppy that you clearly see that beyond our two flagship operating entities. The rest of the portfolio really present, 60% of operating profit.
Speaker Change: Moving to page 21, you can see that the high level of value of new business is translating itself into a high level of normalized <unk> growth, which is above 6% and which is also above our expected range of four 5%.
Speaker Change: Been growing by 7% year on year. We also have very strong gross asset value of new business.
Speaker Change: And very present as well to see is a very low level of <unk>, we have a.
Speaker Change: Then 18 tests and so clearly he's a very well diversified portfolio.
Speaker Change: This year, which is around 4% of our CSM.
Speaker Change: So to summarize on life and hence.
Speaker Change: Our results are very strong across the portfolio, we have seen a high level of growth certainly I believe that these high level of growth will be difficult to fully replicate for a.
Speaker Change: And that concludes the update of the lapse assumptions in the third quarter.
And by the way also a non economic as I N T were positive in the in the fourth quarter on a standalone basis.
Speaker Change: 2025, but we see strong momentum for our products across the portfolio as I have already mentioned.
Speaker Change: Yes, I'm really fully in line with expectations and I'll send GTT should remain at a low returns.
Speaker Change: And these are high quality growth is translating into a strong TSM horse, which clearly will support well our official profitability and create confidence for 2025.
Speaker Change: I move to page 23.
Speaker Change: Basically from the fancy shifts are released to the operating profits are still a bit of noise in between the line items as we are still fine tuning energy sector on a legacy effect of IL 17, and nine overall, our operating profit is at $5 5 billion, which is well above our midpoint outlook.
Speaker Change: I move to asset management on page 25.
Speaker Change: Shut 30 assets under management.
Speaker Change: The center on year, we spoke he can give you a month at both pinnacle and Agi and Pimco side, we have seen.
Speaker Change: On the right hand side, you can see a good development of our operating profit by operating entity.
Speaker Change: More than 84 billion of positive inflows.
2 billion went went into fixed income, which basically means that kimco is clearly maintaining a leading position on.
Speaker Change: Our our German life NTT East.
Speaker Change: 10% U S is slightly down on this page, but actually it actually needs to a technical.
Speaker Change: Actually he can come.
Speaker Change: And we have also seen on Pico side 4 billion of inflows into the into our alternative strategy there.
Speaker Change: If you correct for.
Speaker Change: Is that onesie and donate inaugurating push it is up by more than 6%. What once was very nice and despite choppy that you clearly see that beyond our two flagship operating entities. The rest of the portfolio really present, 60% of operating profit has been growing by 7% year on year. We also are very strong.
Speaker Change: It is in line with what we have communicated as well in the capital market day now.
Speaker Change: I cannot even private credit platforms represents more than 28 billion U S zulauf asset under management on <unk> side.
Speaker Change: Who says that you have new business of more than 18%. So clearly he's a very well diversified portfolio.
Speaker Change: As well as positive inflows in multi assets and alternatives in particular in infrastructure and real asset debt, which has been offset.
Speaker Change: So to summarize on life and health.
Speaker Change: All results are very strong across the portfolio, we have seen a high level of growth certainly I believe that his high level of growth will be difficult to fully repeat rate for 2025, but we see strong momentum for our product across the portfolio as I have already mentioned.
Speaker Change: By the outflows, we have seen equity and as well as two large fixed income mandates that came with a very low level of margin that I have already mentioned in the second quarter.
Speaker Change: If I move to page 929.
Speaker Change: You can see $3 27, you can see that our original news outlets, 3% for the year, despite the lower level of the firm and sheet.
Speaker Change: And these are high quality growth is translating into a strong TSM rules, which clearly will support well our official profitability and create confidence for 2025.
Speaker Change: Although they use which are new to the asset under management out at 7% and that's basically the.
If I move to asset management on page 25.
Speaker Change: The output of two effects first of all is the fact that we have seen positive developments in our assets under management and also is that we have a solid margin.
Speaker Change: <unk> assets under management.
Speaker Change: 12% year on year, we used positive development at our booth Pimco and Agi.
Speaker Change: Telco side, we have seen.
Speaker Change: Both of our asset managers, which I think is very it's very important to see a good example of that would be that as part of the stable margin development on the telco side as an example.
Speaker Change: More than 84 billion of positive inflows 82 billion went into fixed income, which basically means that the team who is clearly maintaining a leading position on.
Speaker Change: I've done as a contribution of the antenna.
Speaker Change: Actually he can come.
Speaker Change: Now more than 20% of their revenues as I will.
Speaker Change: And we have also seen on Pico aside 4 billion of inflows into the into our alternative strategy there.
Speaker Change: As already mentioned and for Kimco.
Speaker Change: If I go to page 29, you can see that our operating profit is at $3 2 billion, which is slightly above our guidance for the year.
Speaker Change: He is in line with what we have communicated as well in the capital market Day now did you kill alternative and private credit platforms represents more than 28 billion USD allow off assets and our management on pimco side.
Speaker Change: Operating profit, excluding the aforementioned Egypt by more than 10% in 2024.
Speaker Change: <unk> as well as seen in preheating flows in multi assets and alternatives in particular in infrastructure and real asset debt, which has been offset.
Speaker Change: The way for the first quarter on a standalone data usage by more than 20%.
Speaker Change: Clearly.
Speaker Change: Performance issue party devices to focus.
Speaker Change: By the outflows, we have seen equity and as well as two large fixed income mandates that came with a very low level of margin that I have already mentioned in the quarter.
Bush Kimco and Agi, Ontario GTT.
Which is clearly shown in the development of our cost income ratio.
Speaker Change: Despite the ruble.
Speaker Change: And she is actually if you correct for this performance.
Speaker Change: If I move to page 29.
Speaker Change: You can see $3 27, you can see that our revenues are up 3% for the year, despite the lower level of performance fees.
Speaker Change: Any improvement in your question income ratio is 150 bps, which is a lot and clearly demonstrating that both of them.
Speaker Change: Really addressing as you put a utility aspect sorry, we are leveraging new technologies actually both on the front end and on the back end to deliver that outcome.
Speaker Change: Although they use which are new to the assets under management are at 7% and that's the key here.
Speaker Change: The output of two effects first of all is the fact that we have seen positive developments in our assets under management and also is.
Speaker Change: Ooh boost asset managers have had strong contribution in 2024, we have seen as well positive inflows at the two of them and this momentum has been continuing in January and will position us well for 2025.
Speaker Change: We have solid margin.
Speaker Change: Both of our asset managers, which I think is very very important to see a good example of that.
Speaker Change: One I'm going to skip and it moves to remit empties onto AGP starter suite.
Speaker Change: Be that as part of the stable margin development on the clinical side as an example.
Speaker Change: But you can see that our every meeting at.
Speaker Change: I've done it as a contribution of the antenna is now more than 20% of their revenues as I was already mentioning for kimco.
Speaker Change: At $8 1 billion for the year, which is a healthy level that is quite close to 2023 and he's correspond to a net remittance ratio, which is above 90%, which is also ahead of what we have mentioned in the capital market day, which was 85% that's clearly for me demonstrating the ongoing DCP.
Speaker Change: If I go to page 29.
Speaker Change: She said that operating profit is at $3 2 billion, which is slightly above our guidance for the year.
Speaker Change: Operating profit excluding performance he Egypt by more than 10% in 2024.
Speaker Change: <unk> that we have in place within the group in terms of management of the upstream.
Speaker Change: And by the way for the first quarter on a standalone basis.
Speaker Change: In 2024, we are at four 1 million less excess capital upstream compared to 2023, which basically means that the underlying remittances are at six 6% compared to 2023.
By more than 20%.
Speaker Change: Clearly this performance issue party devices to focus.
Speaker Change: Bush pinpoint agi onto the utility.
Speaker Change: Which is clearly shown in the development of our cost income ratio.
Speaker Change: Let's move to page 35, and hear from the 16 billion operating profit to the 10 billion of shareholder call. Net income two line items are very straightforward I would see we have a lower level of nonoperating push it.
Speaker Change: Despite the ruble is going to perform and she's actually if you correct for this performance.
Speaker Change: The underlying improvement in your question income ratio is 150 bps, which is a lot and clearly demonstrating that both of them.
Speaker Change: In 2024, and our tax rate is at 25%, which is fully in line with what we expected to see so he's bringing us to a core EPS of <unk> 20.
Speaker Change: Really addressing as you put a utility aspect sorry, we are leveraging new technologies actually both on the front end and on the back end to deliver that outcome.
Speaker Change: <unk> 25 point to yours, which is up by more than 12% compared to 2020 suites and as mentioned at fully in line with our capital market day, 2021, and despite the accounting change to catering and delivery on that side as well.
Speaker Change: Both asset managers have had strong contribution in 2024, we have seen as well positive inflows at the two of them and this momentum has been continuing in January and will position us well for 2025.
Speaker Change: <unk> I'm going to skip and it moves to Remington keys on page 33.
Let me move to our outlook on page Nisha children and here, we are clearly keeping our mechanical approach offsetting our outlook in line with previous year delivery, we as well keeping a certain level of conservatism when it comes to asset assumption sitting in the underlying so let me explain.
Speaker Change: But you can see that our every meat and cheese.
Speaker Change: At $8 1 billion for the year, which is a healthy level and that is quite close to 2023.
Speaker Change: Correspond to an essence ratio, which is above 90%, which is also ahead of what we have mentioned in the capital market day, which was 85%. That's clearly for me demonstrating the ongoing discipline that we have in place within the group.
Speaker Change: Are you a bit what I expect to see in the values segments.
Speaker Change: On the P&C side I expect to see both growth in line with what we have coming.
Speaker Change: <unk> indicated in our capital market day.
Speaker Change: In terms of management of the upstream.
Speaker Change: We expect to see another on any improvement in push W. E T coming from both our Attritional loss ratio and our expense ratio and I expect to see as well as detailed a lower level of investment results.
Speaker Change: In 2024, we have that 400 million less excess capital upstream compared to 2023, which basically means that the underlying remittances are at six 6% compared to 2023.
Speaker Change: And before.
Speaker Change: On the life side I expect to earn this GSM.
Speaker Change: Let's move to page five and here from the $16 billion of operating profit to the 10 billion of showing dark on net income two line items.
Speaker Change: Also a slightly lower level of investment we just as we will have to pay for the interest accretion impact in particular coming from the protection business and as well I know for the.
Speaker Change: Very straightforward I would see we have a lower level of nonoperating push it.
Speaker Change: In 2024, and our tax rate is at 25%, which is fully in line with what we expected to see so he's bringing us to a core EPS of <unk> 25 point to yours, which is up by more than 12% compared to 2020 suite and as mentioned is fully in line with our capes.
Speaker Change: First the deconsolidation effect of when you could eat jita as already mentioned by all these up and on the asset management side I do not take any market assumptions are any assumptions related to the timing of performance fees and I just a little fuzzy.
Speaker Change: Slight increase of the asset under management with tissue Barking.
Speaker Change: Market, the 2021 and despite the accounting change so clearly a very strong delivery on that side as well.
Speaker Change: Adjusted for the increase or the asset management, which is chipotle is a slight increase in the overall operating profit outlook.
Speaker Change: So clearly of commitment from the capital market day in December is completely unchanged and the share buyback we have announced today.
Speaker Change: Let me move to our outlook on page 30 children and here, we are clearly keeping our mechanical approach offsetting our outlook in line with previous year delivery.
Speaker Change: She blocking our EPS trajectory and will as well.
Speaker Change: Well, keeping a certain level of conservatism when it comes to asset assumption sitting in the underlying.
Speaker Change: As well very much in line with what we have communicated already in terms of.
Speaker Change: Let me explain to you what I expect to see in the values segments.
Speaker Change: Capital.
Speaker Change: Although capital management. Please go.
Speaker Change: Let me conclude on page 39, where actually as the group had a very strong year in 2024 with record results on many dimensions Louisa just demonstrate our ability to consistently deliver value in a complex environment and during the capital market day in December and we have set for ourself ambitious target.
Speaker Change: The P&C side I expect to see both growth in line with what we have communicated in the capital market day.
Speaker Change: Two she ananda and any improvement in push W. E T coming from both our Attritional loss ratio and our expense ratio.
Speaker Change: I expect to see as well the details to our level of investment results and I have mentioned before.
Speaker Change: And as you can see on this stage and as you have heard from me when going through the numbers. Our performance in 2024 gives us confidence in our ability to the needlefish ambition and with that I hand over back to you Andrew for your questions.
Speaker Change: On the life side I expect to earn this GSM.
Speaker Change: Also a slightly lower level of investment we just as we will have to pay for the interest accretion impact in particular coming from the protection business and as well a little for the roof is a deconsolidation effect of when you could eat jita as already mentioned by they only go up and on the asset management side.
Andrew: Great. Thank you Marie.
Andrew: Just some housekeeping points.
Andrew: Points on questions I mentioned earlier that we had some problems.
Andrew: Receiving questions as Youre, turning of IP phones or strongly recommend they usually.
Speaker Change: I do not take any market assumptions are any assumptions related to the timing of the performance fees and I just a little fuzzy.
Andrew: The old fashioned approach.
Andrew: You all using a mobile phone in store five if you want to try it on the web version there is a talk request button on the top right hand corner.
Speaker Change: The slight increase of the asset under management with tissue Barking, sorry, Asia to do for the increase or the asset management with easy parking is a slight increase in the overall operating profit outlook.
Andrew: We are going to do our usual rule, which is.
Andrew: Restrict yourself please to two questions and then if we have time.
Speaker Change: So clearly a commitment from the capital market day in December is completely unchanged.
Andrew: We will go for some some follow ups.
Speaker Change: Great. So with that I think the first question is from Andrew Baker of Bank of America go ahead Andrew.
Speaker Change: Share buyback, we have announced today.
Speaker Change: Supporting our EPS trajectory and will as well.
Speaker Change: It's Andrew Baker Goldman Sachs. Thank you.
Speaker Change: And he's as well very much in line with what we have communicated already in terms of.
Speaker Change: Africa is a lot of Anders.
Speaker Change: Capital.
Speaker Change: First one are you able to just help me try and link the 2025 gardens to your three year plan. So if I look at your obviously, the seven 5% EPS CAGR.
Speaker Change: Although <unk> capital management please connect.
Speaker Change: Let me conclude on page 39, where actually as a group had a very strong year in 2024 with record results on many dimensions Louisa just demonstrate our ability to consistently deliver value in a complex environment and during the capital market day in December we have set for ourself ambitious target.
Speaker Change: Included in operating profit cargoes.
Speaker Change: 6% yeah.
Speaker Change: Point of the 25 operating profit guidance to slide 24.
Speaker Change: So uneven even the upper end of the 25 guidance is 6% growth versus 2004. So do I read. This is 25 guidance is relatively conservative and you expect to be above the midpoint or three year plan.
Speaker Change: And as you can see on this stage and as you have heard from me when going through the numbers. Our performance in 2024 gives us confidence in our ability to deliver his ambition and with that I hand over back to you Andrew for your questions.
Speaker Change: More backend loaded and if it is the latter can you just help me understand sort of what the.
Speaker Change: Drivers are that lead to this back end nature of the plan.
Andrew: Great. Thank you Marie.
Speaker Change: And then secondly.
Andrew: Just some housekeeping points.
Speaker Change: Are you just able to quantify the benefit in the 2020 for P&C investment result from a hyperinflation countries and what should we expect this to look like in 'twenty five versus 24. Thank you.
Andrew: Points on questions I mentioned earlier that we have problems.
Andrew: We're receiving questions as youre turning of IP phones, so strongly recommend they usually.
Andrew: The old fashioned approach if.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Andrew: If you are using a mobile phone which saw five.
Speaker Change: One.
Speaker Change: Thanks, a lot.
Andrew: You want to try it on the web version there is a talk request button on the top right hand corner.
Speaker Change: Question, So that's right.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Andrew: We are going to do our usual rule wishes.
Speaker Change: Okay.
He said.
Andrew: Restrict yourself pleased to two questions and then if we have time.
Speaker Change: Thanks, a lot for your for your question. So maybe let me start with the second one on the on the hyper inflationary things. So clearly what we have seen in the in the first quarter.
Andrew: We will go for some some follow ups.
Andrew: Great. So with that I think the first question is from Andrew Baker of Bank of America go ahead Andrew.
We had high level of employee fish into inflation effect and we had also a strong contribution from the U S. Dollar that has been strengthening.
Andrew: Sure.
Andrew: It's Andrew Baker Goldman Sachs. Thank you.
Speaker Change: As it has been contributing positively in the evaluation and it was a result. So you think you can take from that one that at around 100 to 150 million euros and basically we have not taken any assumptions when it comes to the effects of inflation country.
Andrew: Africa is a lot of vendors.
Andrew: First one are you able to just help me try and link the 2025 garden to your three year plan. If I look at your obviously, the seven times an EPS CAGR.
Andrew: Included in operating profit cargoes.
Andrew: 6% yeah.
Speaker Change: Into our into our guidance at this point in time, So you can I mean.
Andrew: Of the 25 operating profit guidance is flat.
Andrew: Four.
We consider that you can use a steady state guidance, we have given now that would be a fair reflection of what we should expect.
Andrew: So uneven even the upper end of the 25 guidance is 6% growth versus 2000.
Andrew: Before so this is 25 guidance is relatively conservative and you expect to be above the midpoint or a three year plan more backend loaded.
Speaker Change: From that perspective, it makes sense right.
Speaker Change: Does that basically what we have done.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Andrew: Just help me understand sort of what.
Speaker Change: The first question was on the first one.
Andrew: The drivers are that lead to this back end nature of the plan.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: You guys mentioned, so so clearly I mean, we have we are not changing our guidance against against CMV and we do not expect our plan to be to be back.
Andrew: And then secondly.
Are you just able to quantify the benefit in the 2020 for P&C investment result from a hyperinflation countries and what should we expect this to look like in 'twenty five versus 24. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Back end loaded so as I've mentioned, we have taken a certain set of assumptions Michelle fairly conservative in the environment, but also I think the current environment is.
Andrew: Right.
Andrew: Okay.
Andrew: Thanks, a lot.
Andrew: Question, So that's right.
Speaker Change: Next one very clearly.
Andrew: Okay.
Speaker Change: The way you should be reading out.
Andrew: Okay.
Speaker Change: Current outlook now.
Andrew: When when you say.
Andrew: Thanks, a lot for your for your question. So maybe let me start with the second one on the on the hyper inflation anything so clearly what we have seen in the in the first quarter.
Andrew Baker: Okay. Thanks, Andrew.
Speaker Change: Question is from another Andrew.
This is Andrew Sinclair from the Corona Institution Bank of America go ahead Andrew.
Andrew: High level of employee fish into inflation effect and we had also a strong contribution from the U S. Dollar that has been strengthening.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: You very much everybody.
Speaker Change: Sorry, just before I ask my questions I think.
Andrew: As it has been contributing positively in the evaluation and it was a result. So you think you can take from that one that at around 100 to 150 million euros and basically we have not taken any assumptions when it comes to the effect of high inflation countries.
Speaker Change: Your policy of giving next year's guidance.
Speaker Change: On that point for the previous year.
Speaker Change: Slightly unhelpful.
Speaker Change: Genuine guidance or nothing actually why didn't they have more helpful.
Just a moment, but anyway onto onto my quick question.
Speaker Change: PNC irregular theme for me.
Andrew: Into our into our guidance at this point in time, So you can I mean.
Speaker Change: What color can you give us on how your strengths are preserved.
Andrew: We consider that you can use a steady state guidance, we have given now that would be a fair reflection of what we should expect.
Speaker Change: During the year I guess lower people at peak.
Speaker Change: Building a bit more conservatism on the reserves, but it'd be really helpful. As a way to quantify that.
Andrew: From that perspective, it makes sense right.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Project triangles or whatever but just any clarification.
Andrew: Does that basically what we have done.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Conservatism building.
First question was on the first one.
Speaker Change: Second was just on.
Speaker Change: Personal lines.
Andrew: Under guidance yet so so clearly I mean, we have we are not changing our guidance against against CMV and we do not expect our plan to be to be back.
Speaker Change: So unfortunate renewals in markets like Germany, Switzerland.
Speaker Change: Just really for what we see in your level of competitiveness versus peers just given your.
Speaker Change: An opportunity to take some market share.
Andrew: And loaded so as I've mentioned, we have taken a certain set of assumptions Michelle fairly conservative in the environment, but also I think the current environment is a complex one.
Speaker Change: So put in pricing that you said, thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Thanks, a lot and so on the lower level of <unk> for the fourth quarter or Kelly you should not be reading anything into into this one we are very confident with liquidity of all regions. As you have seen during the capital market day, we have shared with us a consistency of Av.
Andrew: Clearly, but that's the way you should be reading our current outlook now.
Andrew: Okay. Thanks.
Speaker Change: The next question is from another Andrew.
Speaker Change: Emergence of positive or enough that we have seen year after year, So I will.
Andrew Sinclair: This is Andrew Sinclair from the Corona Institution Bank of America go ahead.
Speaker Change: To continue to see that one to continue going forward onshore.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Very much thank you.
Speaker Change: Sorry, just before asked my questions.
Speaker Change: And then on your second question.
Speaker Change: Any measure that you can give us really to stop that additional strengthening that youre doing.
Speaker Change: Your policy of giving next year's guidance, just as a midpoint for the previous year.
Speaker Change: Lots of people I'd say over the years, but it's hard to tell if you're building or leasing trends and the reserves that would be useful to have some sorts of patrick's genotype.
Speaker Change: Slightly unhelpful.
Speaker Change: Genuine guidance or nothing actually might even be more helpful.
Speaker Change: Just a moment, but anyway onto onto my two questions.
Speaker Change: So I think Andrew what what I was alluding for is that we.
Speaker Change: P&C regular theme for me.
Speaker Change: Have strengthened the quality of our reserves during 2024.
Speaker Change: What color can you give us on how your strengths are preserved.
Speaker Change: And then maybe she wants to get to the guidance when it comes to what we expect to see going forward I would expect to continue to see positive positive run off in the two to three percentage point year on year.
Speaker Change: During the year I guess lower P value.
Speaker Change: Building a bit more conservatism on the reserves, but it'd be really helpful across a way to quantify that.
Speaker Change: Let's see.
Triangles or whatever but just any clarification on.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Conservatism building.
Speaker Change: And then on the renewals under them on the important markets, where we have seen the renewals.
Speaker Change: Second was just on.
Speaker Change: Personal lines.
Speaker Change: I guess, some sort of unfortunate renewals in markets like Germany, Switzerland.
Speaker Change: So we are actually we are very happy with the quality of the renewals we have seen in our in January So as an example, if we take on the German model.
Speaker Change: Just really for what we've seen.
Speaker Change: With restaurants. These peers, just giving you an opportunity to take some market share.
Speaker Change: Syed.
Syed: He has been a growing a number of police.
Speaker Change: So put in pricing that you said, thank you very much.
Syed: Policies. We have also achieved the highest level of retention either into our motel book as an example, so we have been clearly gaining market share and it's also like she parties of India in some of our markets. Okay.
Speaker Change: Thanks, a lot and.
Speaker Change: So on the lower level of <unk> for the fourth quarter, clearly you should not be reading anything into into these one we are very confident with liquidity of all regions. As you have seen during the capital market day, we have shared with US a consistency of of the emergence of positive or enough that we have seen.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much.
Syed: So on the.
Syed: Next question.
Speaker Change: And year after year, so I will.
Michael Huttner: Is from Michael Michael Huttner of burn, but go ahead Michael.
We expect to continue to see that one to continue going forward onshore.
Michael Huttner: Yes, congratulations on the early results.
Speaker Change: And then on your second question.
Speaker Change: Any measure that you can give us really to stop that additional strengthening that youre doing.
Michael Huttner: One of the.
Michael Huttner: I think about you.
Michael Huttner: So.
Speaker Change: We've had lots of people I'd say over the years, but it's hard to tell if you're building or leasing trends and the reserves that would be useful to have some sorts of patrick's genotype.
Michael Huttner: To me the guidance.
Michael Huttner: The profit growth is not.
Michael Huttner: Percent of whatever.
Michael Huttner: The dividend growth, the 12% or even if I look at a buyback of $2 billion.
Speaker Change: So I think Andrew what what I was alluding for we have strengthened the quality of our reserves during 2024.
Michael Huttner: Kind of indication that the.
Michael Huttner: Profitability is kind of ramping ahead, but.
Speaker Change: And then maybe she wants to get to the guidance when it comes to what we expect to going forward I would expect to continue to see positive positive run off in the two to three percentage point year on year.
Speaker Change: You're the CFO, but thank.
Michael Huttner: Thank you so to say well have a full floor.
Speaker Change: Florida is a turnaround that was looking for potential turnarounds.
Speaker Change: Virtually none left the only one I could find and there's only in Q4 as a partner the partner business.
Speaker Change: And then on the renewals under them.
Speaker Change: Well.
Speaker Change: The combined ratio was 99%, that's a big business with great profitability.
Speaker Change: The important markets, where we have seen the renewals.
Speaker Change: So we are.
Speaker Change: You've kind of talked about a little bit, but maybe you can see how quickly or vice versa.
Speaker Change: Actually we are very happy with the quality of the renewals we have seen in our in January So as an example, if we take on the German model.
Speaker Change: Not so great and how quickly you can improve it.
Speaker Change: Syed.
Speaker Change: And the other.
Speaker Change: He has been a growing number of policies.
Speaker Change: Question is.
Speaker Change: And it's really just simple numbers.
Speaker Change: <unk>, we have also achieved the highest level of retention either into our motel book as an example, so we have been clearly gaining market share and it's also like she parties of India in some of our markets. Okay.
Speaker Change: Lots of simple numbers, a lot of free and I hope it doesn't it's not okay and so.
Speaker Change: Sensitivity of earnings have been massive she used to report it two years ago the secondaries.
Speaker Change: The inflows in January I think you might have said it I missed it.
Speaker Change: Third is the labor cost.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: So on the.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Next question.
Speaker Change: Is from Michael Michael Huttner of Bahrenburg go ahead Michael.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: I'll start with the earlier wildfires.
Speaker Change: Which for us will be a double digit double digit plus well within it.
Michael Huttner: Yes, congratulations on the early results.
Speaker Change: One of the.
Speaker Change: The expected cat load for them for a month or quarter and she wants and so we are exposed to the E. L F.
Speaker Change: I think about you.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: To me the guidance.
Speaker Change: The profit growth is not.
Speaker Change: Percent of whatever but its dividend growth, the 12% or even if I look at the buyback of 2 billion and that's one off.
Speaker Change: [noise] wildfire.
Speaker Change: Now <unk> has business in Dallas shut that business on the partner.
Swedish side.
Speaker Change: Kind of indication that the.
Speaker Change: For the inflows in January so we have seen a low a low level of double digit inflows at booth.
Speaker Change: Ability is kind of ramping ahead, but.
Speaker Change: You're the CFO about three I think.
Speaker Change: And Agi in January, which clearly position us well for the for the quarter.
Speaker Change: Thank you so to say well have a full floor.
Speaker Change: Plus as a turnaround so I was looking for potential turnarounds.
Speaker Change: Virtually none left the only one I could find there's only in Q4 as a partner the partner business.
Speaker Change: Can I double digits in engineering.
Speaker Change: No no. It's total it's total it's Luke.
Speaker Change: Well.
Speaker Change: The combined ratio was 99% that's a big business great profitability.
Speaker Change: Total.
Speaker Change: Total.
Speaker Change: Total for both Pimco and Adi.
Speaker Change: If you kind of talked about a little bit, but maybe you can see how quickly or why not.
Speaker Change: D G.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: A number of influencing them.
Speaker Change: Not so great in house.
Speaker Change: Quickly you can improve it.
Speaker Change: And on partners.
Speaker Change: And the other <unk>.
Speaker Change: We are we have seen so indeed is a deliberate combined ratio has been deteriorating itself a bit with we had a bit of movement in the.
Speaker Change: <unk> is.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: Really just simple numbers.
Speaker Change: Lots of simple numbers, a lot of free and I hope it doesn't.
Speaker Change: In the combined ratio of partners during the year, but we have twists like you need to have in mind is that first of all we had we had some mix effect that came through and and I believe when you look for a launch.
Speaker Change: Okay. So the sensitivity of earnings have been massive she used to report it two years ago the secondaries.
Speaker Change: The inflows in January I think you might have said it I missed it.
Speaker Change: It is the law.
Speaker Change: 97 is not about anchoring point for that business that you need to look at the performance of partners. Both the combined ratio and also the ski business too because we have a lot of that is embedded into the into the partner business, which is coming down into the operating profit. So that's why you see there.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I'll start with the wildfires.
Speaker Change: Which for us will be a double digit double digit plus well regime.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Our expected cat load for the months of a quarter and she wants and so we are exposed to the.
Speaker Change: Very high growth in our high growth in operating profit that precedent in per cent for them.
Speaker Change: Aly wildfire.
Speaker Change: Yeah, which is the outcome of both for both effects into the into the performance of partners.
Speaker Change: Now <unk> search business and our shut the RTA business on the on the <unk>.
Speaker Change: I know, it's really site.
Michael Huttner: Michael did you have another.
Speaker Change: For the inflows in January so we have seen a low a low level of double digit inflows at booth Kimco and Adi are in our in January which clearly position us well for the for the quarter.
Michael Huttner: It was a dollar sensitivity question I didn't quite hear it you used to see.
Michael Huttner: He is to give it.
Michael Huttner: Training.
Michael Huttner: My name is something that was mentioned.
Michael Huttner: I think it's unchanged.
Michael Huttner: No.
Michael Huttner: Okay. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Mm connect up double digits in NGL.
Michael Huttner: Great.
Michael Huttner: Michael.
Speaker Change: No no. It's total it's total.
Speaker Change: Next question is from William William Hall, Caso from UBS go ahead William.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker Change: It's total for both Pimco and Adi.
Michael Huttner: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: D G.
First one is on PMC growth.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: So really strong and you've been really clear there on guidance for the division overall is there any possibility you can help us thinking about 'twenty 'twenty five expectations on gross margin aggregated mode versus non motor.
Speaker Change: A number of influencing them.
Speaker Change: And on partners.
Speaker Change: We are we have seen so indeed.
Speaker Change: Is there a level of combined ratio has been deteriorating.
Speaker Change: We had a bit of movement in the <unk>.
Speaker Change: They obviously and then how does that relative Ags adcs expectation.
Speaker Change: The combined ratio of partners during the year, but we have twists that 29 is that first of all we had we had some mix effect that came through and and I believe when you look for a launch.
Speaker Change: Second one is just thinking about any major deviation that may have happened year over year on reinsurance protection.
Speaker Change: So 97 is not about anchoring point for that business.
Speaker Change: Whether it be price coverage charge explanation at all very similar year over year.
Speaker Change: You need to look at the performance of partners would be both the combined ratio and also the tea business because we have a lot of that is embedded into the into the partner business, which is coming down into your operating profit. So that's why you see very high growth in our high growth in operating profit at precedent on per cent for the.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Maybe I start indeed, I think like four four P and she is as you rightfully say right I expected development in terms of top line really in line with what we have communicated in the capital market day, so 6% to 7% right.
Speaker Change: For the year, which is the outcome of both for both effects into the into the performance of partners.
Speaker Change: Within that retail we also expect.
Speaker Change: I mean quite in line with what all you guys mentioned or cloud Peter did dimension. So three to four percentage point as a percentage of volume effect, which is meaning like what you said.
Michael Huttner: So Michael did you have another.
Speaker Change: It was a dollar sensitivity question I didn't quite hear it.
Michael Huttner: So give it 10%.
Speaker Change: <unk> built up on the traditional 1% to 2% volume effect by yes, so when we add up 1% to two percentage point.
Michael Huttner: Train in total 500 million or something that was mentioned.
Michael Huttner: It's unchanged.
Michael Huttner: Exactly.
Michael Huttner: Okay. Thank you.
Speaker Change: The volume effect.
Michael Huttner: Okay.
Speaker Change: We are tapping into our growth triathlon and I think what I was just mentioning on the renewal we have seen on the German side as an example, the east concern me that you and we also expect to see something like two 5%.
Michael Huttner: Thanks, Michael.
Speaker Change: Next question is from William William Hall, Caso from UBS go ahead William.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: First one is on PMC growth.
Speaker Change: They are really strong and you've been really clear there on guidance for the division overall is there any possibility you can help us thinking about 'twenty 'twenty five expectations on gross margin disaggregated.
Speaker Change: Price effects into the into the growth on the on the retail side, So and then a bit higher on the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Marta as opposed to non motor because we expect motor to contribute amongst your Michigan C compared to none motto and the improvement of the of the margin on the overall retail side now and then for commercial you clearly up to two new ends between mid Corp. A GTS.
Speaker Change: So first is non motor colon, they obviously and then how does that.
Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: That expectation.
Speaker Change: Second one is just thinking about any of the many major deviation that may have happened year over year on reinsurance protection that you're purchasing whether it be price coverage terms and conditions are all very similar year over year.
Speaker Change: Trade or partners.
Speaker Change: For Adcs.
Speaker Change: Mention right.
Speaker Change: We expect a lower level of growth, but still see some growth as we are as we are cautious cautious.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Maybe I start indeed, I think like four four P and she is as you rightfully say right I expect.
Speaker Change: In terms of some line of business when it comes to the rate adequacy at this point in time as well, but we still see space for <unk>.
Speaker Change: In terms of top line really in line with what we have communicated in the capital market day, so 6% to 7% right.
Speaker Change: Our focus growth in the <unk> book as well.
Speaker Change: The reinsurance renewals I.
Speaker Change: In that retail we also expect.
Speaker Change: Oh, yes, sorry on the reinsurance renewal.
Speaker Change: So we have reached our hour. So we have changed slightly some of the features of our insurance picture, but it's broadly unchanged compared to what.
Speaker Change: I mean quite in line with what you guys mentioned or cloud Peter did a dimension. So three to four percentage point of percentage volume effect, which is meaning like what we.
Speaker Change: We had in place before and we have seen despite the fact that we had some of our.
Speaker Change: We built up on the traditional one to two per cent will you may affect by yet so we add up 1% to two percentage point.
Speaker Change: Cover off some of our reinsurance protection that was a.
Speaker Change: Well you may effect as we are tapping into our gross triathlon and I think what I was just mentioning on the renewals we have seen on the German side. As an example, <unk> concern me is that you and we also expect to see something like 4% to 5%.
Speaker Change: That was a bit impacted by some some losses, we were able to renew.
Speaker Change: Slightly lower price compared to our compared to previous year to a good outcome of the of the reinsurance renewal.
Speaker Change: I will tell you that for us.
Speaker Change: Price effects into the into the growth on the on the retail side, So and then a bit higher on a on moodle as opposed to non motor because we expect motor to contribute more significantly compared to none motto and the improvement of the margin on the overall retail side now.
Speaker Change: Thanks will.
Josh: Next question is from James James Shuck of Citi Go ahead, Josh.
Josh: Thank you God awful.
Speaker Change: First question is around the performance fees in asset management play.
Speaker Change: Then for commercial you clearly have to nuance between mid Corp, a GTS.
Josh: That $400 million across the year.
Josh: If I take into account the AUM.
Speaker Change: Trade or our partners.
Josh: It's probably the lowest level of performance fees in history at least ballpark.
Speaker Change: For Adcs.
Josh: Because my level guidance.
Speaker Change: Mention right.
Speaker Change: And we expect a lower level of growth, but still see some growth as we are as we are cautious cautious.
Josh: Whether the performance of Pimco in particular, starting to fade somewhat.
Josh: My first question.
Speaker Change: In terms of some line of business when it comes to the rate adequacy at this point in time as well, but we still see space for <unk>.
Josh: Secondly.
Josh: All of them came to the front of thousands.
Josh: <unk> at this point in terms of kind of strategic.
Speaker Change: Our focus growth in the AG book as well.
Josh: Crossroads.
Josh: What are you kind of thinking about in terms of how you.
Speaker Change: Oh, yes, sorry on the reinsurance renewal.
Josh: The scale up this business business development.
Speaker Change: So we have renewed our hours. So we have changed slightly some of the features of our insurance structure, but it's broadly unchanged compared to what we had in place before and we have seen despite the fact that.
Distribution platforms potentially introduce.
Josh: Capital.
Josh: Sorts of things.
Josh: I think you're right just a quick final one could you update on what you're placing reserve at the end of 2024. Please thank you very much.
Speaker Change: We had some of our.
I'll start thank you for the question I'll start with AGC Ines.
Speaker Change: Cover.
Speaker Change: Some of our reinsurance protection that was.
Josh: We have.
Speaker Change: I mean that was a bit impacted by some some losses, we were able to renew.
Josh: The rest of it a lot of time energy and money to.
Josh: To upgrade their capabilities.
Speaker Change: A slightly lower price compared to our compared to previous year.
Josh: Also in parallel to make sure we integrated more properly with the large core business and mid core business into the various countries, particularly in Europe. That's been at the core of what we've been doing we continuously for example roll out a consistent go to market strategy. The same applying the same.
Speaker Change: The outcome of the reinsurance renewal.
Speaker Change: I'll tell you that for us.
Speaker Change: Thanks will.
James Shuck: Next question is from James James Shuck of Citi Go ahead James.
Josh: Our risk and underwriting and pricing tools.
James Shuck: Thank you I'll get offline.
Speaker Change: Our first question is around the performance fees in asset management play.
And making sure we have a consistent risk appetite. So we don't find ourselves writing something in mid Corp, and then in a juicy and as at the same time without.
Around $400 million across the year, if I take into account the AUM.
Speaker Change: It's probably the lowest level of performance fees in history at least as far back as my level goes.
Josh: The other one knowing about it so it's unfortunately, a lot of and continues to be a lot of grinding on top of that this year is delivery here in the United Kingdom for the new what we call Allianz business Master platform delivery on commercial lines UK is the first market to have to deliver that.
Speaker Change: Can you kind of whether the performance of pinpoint in particular, starting to fade somewhat.
Our first question.
Speaker Change: Secondly.
Speaker Change: All of them came to the front as well.
Speaker Change: A G CSF.
Josh: Important us for the next few years remember most in our industry don't even have a consistent platform strategy. So it's an important delivery and 25 to make that happen and then rolling that out to.
Speaker Change: Point in terms of kind of strategic.
Speaker Change: Growth rates.
Speaker Change: What are you kind of thinking about in total value.
The scale up this business business develop.
Speaker Change: Distribution platforms potentially introduce.
Josh: The rest of Europe over the next few years. So it has lots of work in progress.
Speaker Change: Third party capital.
Speaker Change: It's a thing.
Speaker Change: And if you're able to just a quick final one could you update us on what you're placing reserve at the end of 2024. Please thank you very much.
Josh: On top now as reinsurance prices and in some areas Clamor you talked about financial Ryan cyber.
Josh: Grades have been continuously trending down we're taking capacity out because we hit the right profit rather than volume and that will continue as we speak. The good news is that Allianz is not dependent and its performance on what happens in large commercial give.
Speaker Change: I'll start thank you for the question I'll start with AGC Ines.
Speaker Change: We have.
Speaker Change: A lot of time energy and money to.
Speaker Change: To upgrade their capabilities.
Speaker Change: But also in parallel to make sure we integrated more appropriately with the large core business and mid core business into the various countries, particularly in Europe. That's been at the core of what we've been doing we continuously for example rollout a consistent go to market strategy. The same applying the same.
Josh: Given the footprint within property casualty on also beyond that makes us very confident about not having to depend on it. The second thing to bear in mind. We are trying to also use our reinsurance platform Allianz real look more effectively in terms of playing wholesale markets. So where we are not.
Speaker Change: Our risk and underwriting and pricing tools.
Speaker Change: I'm, making sure we have a consistent risk appetite. So we don't find ourselves writing something in mid Corp, and then in agency and as at the same time without.
Josh: Seeing a lot of value in primary that may be.
Josh: And excess of loss in particular in reinsurance and debt we've kept them through early entry. So there's a lot more too.
Speaker Change: The other one knowing about it so it's unfortunately, a lot of and continues to be a lot of grinding on top of that this year every year in the United Kingdom for the new what we call Allianz business Master platform delivery on commercial lines UK is the first market to have to deliver that.
Josh: And that's it and then we are waiting for our new CEO to arrive.
Speaker Change: April 1st so we're very happy about that so much Lillian will come and join US finally from AIG and we're very happy to have him.
Speaker Change: And because we need to fill the shoes of the team there, particularly claim marine are having a different drug.
Speaker Change: Very important to us for the next few years remember most in our industry don't even have a consistent platform strategy. So it's an important delivery and 25 to make that happen and then rolling that out to.
Speaker Change: So that's.
Speaker Change: That's as a short update so commercial lines is important for US we continue to build it out.
Speaker Change: But as the cycle turns more software going to be highly disciplined in terms of how we write it. It also helps obviously that retail has been performing strongly and is going to see further improvements to balance that that is obviously not true for many of our competitors who have been betting on wholesale markets for the last year.
Speaker Change: The rest of Europe over the next few years. So it has lots of work in progress.
Speaker Change: On top now as insurance prices and in some areas Clamor you talked about financial Ryan cyber.
Speaker Change: Grades have been continuously trending down we're taking capacity out because we hit the right.
Speaker Change: Profit rather than volume and that will continue as we speak the good news is that Allianz is not dependent and its performance on what happens in large commercial.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: That's a camry any additions on the questions Yeah, I think the one on fulfillment.
Speaker Change: So so basically a James issue. If you look at our performance fees are historically as a percentage of revenues you can see that our performance is on average has been trading between 5% to 10% of our operating really use no year on year and the average is around 7% and actually 2000.
Speaker Change: Given the footprint within property casualty on also beyond that makes us very confident of not having to depend on it. The second thing to bear in mind. We are trying to also use our reinsurance platform Allianz re a lot more effectively in terms of playing wholesale markets. So where we are not.
Speaker Change: <unk> 24 is just slightly below the 7% says he is at six 9% or something like that so it's very much in line with the.
Speaker Change: Seeing a lot of value in primary there may be.
Speaker Change: And excess of loss and particularly in reinsurance and debt we took them through early I'm, sorry, So there's a lot more too.
Speaker Change: Average, we have observed the Easter switch more last year was even above 10%.
Speaker Change: Was referring and referring to so for 2025.
Speaker Change: That's it and then we are waiting for our new CEO to arrive.
Speaker Change: And we're not even outlook because you knew that performances.
Speaker Change: April 1st So we're very happy about that almost daily loan will come and join US finally from AIG and we're very happy to have him.
Speaker Change: Can be lumpy, we never know when they might annualized can be on your quarter can be on a year or so so you don't know, but if you want to get to guidance. I think you can use the 7% revenue of operating within U S guidance unchanged.
Speaker Change: And because we need to fill the shoes of the team there, particularly claim marine are having a different job.
Speaker Change: And she's for next year.
Speaker Change: And that's as a short update so commercial lines is important for US we continue to build it out.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you, Jamie and placing reserve as well as possible.
Speaker Change: But as the cycle turns and more software going to be highly disciplined in terms of how we write it. It also helps obviously that retail has been performing strongly and is going to see further improvements to balance that that is obviously not true for many of our competitors who have been betting on wholesale markets for the last year.
Speaker Change: Oh, sorry.
Speaker Change: The inflation was of course that doesn't it.
Speaker Change: Yeah, sorry, yeah that one okay, yeah, no. So basically our inflation and we do have is broadly unchanged compared to what we had introduced previously as I mentioned.
Speaker Change: You know also last time I think during as they get to market. These in nature on the inflation in media that's changed right. Because initially it was built more for short tail lines of business and now because of inflation as they emerge into the year into the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: That's a camry any additions on the questions Yeah, I think the one on fulfillment.
Speaker Change: So basically a James issue if you look at our performance is Easter.
Speaker Change: Into the books are into the triangles and it has been more translated into the long tail line.
Speaker Change: Historically as a percentage of revenues.
Speaker Change: Can see that our performance is on average has been trading between 5% to 10% of our operating revenues year on year and the average is around 7% and actually 2024 is just slightly below the 7% says he is at six 9% or something like that so it's very much in line.
Speaker Change: Your line of business, where we expect that inflation is going to take longer to materialize and so as such we have kept our aziza.
Speaker Change: I mean, the establishment of the inflation Alicia for set up with him.
James: Okay. Thank you very much thanks James.
Speaker Change: With the.
Speaker Change: Next question is from Vineet.
Speaker Change: Average we have observed that historically, so it's more of last year was even above 10%.
Speaker Change: We need more water from Mediobanca go ahead Bennett.
Speaker Change: We showing at least trying to so for 2025.
Speaker Change: Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you so much so one question on life, even run on Pimco, one life claim.
Speaker Change: And we're not even know Luke because you knew that performances.
Speaker Change: It can be lumpy, we never know when they might annualized can be on a quarter can be on a year or so so you don't know that you want to get to guidance. I think you can use the 7% revenue of operating within U S guidance for cell phone and she's for next year.
Speaker Change: Just curious.
Speaker Change: Curious another 6%.
Speaker Change: Normalized CSM growth.
Speaker Change: Unless you would say that there was some one off.
Speaker Change: I mean, it was a driver of growth along with the variance of the beat in the quarter.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: Still your guidance is four to five growth.
Jamie: Great. Thank you Jamie and placement.
Speaker Change: Possible.
Speaker Change: Could you just elaborate a little bit about why guidance has not been moving up even though we are seeing this kind of a better number outside the guidance range.
Speaker Change: Oh, sorry.
Speaker Change: You'd see inflation reserve the question wasn't it.
Speaker Change: Yeah, sorry, yeah.
Speaker Change: Okay, Yeah, no. So basically our inflation or we have is broadly unchanged compared to what we had introduced previously as I mentioned.
Speaker Change: Full year 'twenty, four and second question on Pimco.
Speaker Change: I mean, there was some news including in the Wall Street.
Speaker Change: Last time I think during as they get to market. These in nature on the inflation and visa that's change right. Because initially it was built more for short tail lines of business and now because of the inflation as they emerge into <unk> into the <unk>.
Speaker Change: General about how.
Speaker Change: <unk> found a unicorn startup.
Speaker Change: And it it was a large stake in tons of money.
Speaker Change: I think it was in December but I mean, just even if you can't comment on the.
Speaker Change: Into the books are into the triangles and it has been more translated into the long tail line.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Specification, but that's an alternative.
Speaker Change: Line of business, where we expect that inflation is going to take longer to materialize and so as such we have kept our aziza she's.
Speaker Change: Investment, which worked very well should we not have seen it in performance fees or should we have seen it in.
Speaker Change: The regular fee.
Speaker Change: I mean, the establishment of the inflation Alicia for set up with him.
Speaker Change: I'm just curious how these situations are reported.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you very much thanks James.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yep.
Speaker Change: Next question is from page.
Speaker Change: So first of all on your point under a normalized CSM CSM goes right so each of them.
Mahatma: Mahatma from Mediobanca go ahead please.
Mahatma: Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you.
Speaker Change: It's a I mean last year the guidance was four to five star Central in our ER I mentioned at my nomination and boost is expected to be around 5% and you have one effect, which is related to the fact that.
Speaker Change: On July.
Mahatma: July one.
Mahatma: One life.
Mahatma: Just curious.
Mahatma: Curious another 6%.
Mahatma: Normalized CSM growth.
Speaker Change: And.
Unless you would say that there were some one off.
Speaker Change: I mean, we had some really good volumes.
Mahatma: I mean, it was a driver of growth along with exciting experience off the beat in the quarter.
Speaker Change: Came into our into the numbers in a in 2024 and I don't think all of those volumes can repeat themselves.
Mahatma: And.
Mahatma: Guidance of four to five growth.
Speaker Change: 2025, and still because you would see.
Mahatma: Could you just elaborate a little bit about why guidance has not been moving up even though we are seeing this kind of a better number outside the guidance range.
Speaker Change: Some of the.
Speaker Change: Some of the effect of oney credit are when.
Speaker Change: Rita J D that he's going to come through and also some of those one offs I don't want to be as part of the wine as part of the.
Mahatma: In full year 'twenty, four and second question on Pimco.
Mahatma: I mean, there was some news, including in the Wall Street Journal about how.
Speaker Change: Obviously I would you would it be one dimension. So the video our value of new business coming into the into the CSN would from my best take TV quite surgical.
Mahatma: And found the Unicorn startup and it listed in it it was a large they kind of make tons of money.
Speaker Change: The effect is that our in force we done.
Mahatma: I think it was in December.
Speaker Change: We'd be slightly lower in 2025, as basically as a risk free rate.
Speaker Change: I mean, just even if you can't comment on the.
Speaker Change: <unk> down. So that's also the secondary effects that is explaining why I don't see it you can use a 6% normalized GSM goes as beans, or fad guidance for.
Mahatma: Specification, but that's an alternative.
Speaker Change: Investment, which worked very well.
Should we not have seen it in performance fees or should we have seen it in.
Speaker Change: For 2025.
Speaker Change: The regular fee.
Speaker Change: And on your second question.
Speaker Change: Just curious how these situations are reported.
So you are you are you I mean, you are right there with it.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yep.
Speaker Change: Comment to that.
Speaker Change: So first of all on your point on the realized.
Speaker Change: It's his comment that was done in the in the Wall Street Journal and you offer you right that they cannot equipment comment on it is clearly related to <unk> type of investment it has been going.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Same goes for Brazil.
Speaker Change: It's a I mean, she is the guidance was for two 5%.
Speaker Change: I mentioned at my nomination and boost is expected to be around 5%.
Speaker Change: It's going into different portfolios is that will be the case or is that really related to the agreements that are between pinnacle and.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Ed: Thanks, Ed.
And the investors into the into those phones. So even if that will be the case that we're not in a position to comment on those so on your margin question. Clearly we would expect that you would materialize itself depending on the agreement more so shape or form of performance fees at some point in time, but please understand that.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Because you would see.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: Some of the stuff when.
Speaker Change: I mean, I I mean, we don't know all the details into the phones and they can clearly not to comment on that side.
When you trade at.
Speaker Change: When you.
Speaker Change: He's going to consume.
Speaker Change: So Atlanta.
Speaker Change: Oh Wow.
Speaker Change: It's part of the Wild West.
Denise: Thanks Denise.
Speaker Change: Question is from of.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: William William Hawkins from Korea reasonably go ahead William.
Speaker Change: That would be one dimension.
Speaker Change: Value of new business.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: And then to this GSM.
Speaker Change: Hi, everyone. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: All of them coming back to your opening remarks about earning outstanding returns on invested capital we've already covered a lot of things but.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: The second effect is that in for Sweden.
Speaker Change: The whole business, where do you think you are getting the best marginal returns on capital that you're deploying in 2025.
Speaker Change: We'd be slightly below 2020.
Speaker Change: I like slide 14.
Speaker Change: Thank you Sir.
Speaker Change: Growth, but that's kind of quite high level. If you just tell us from everything we've talked about the one or two things where you feel much bullish that would be great. Please.
Speaker Change: So is that also the second thing is you came in one.
Speaker Change: You can use.
Speaker Change: Normalized <unk> samples.
Speaker Change: And then secondly primary maybe.
Speaker Change: Just a thought.
Speaker Change: When you are hedging your financials can you just remind us your prioritization in terms of managing down volatility the metrics across all four our solvency earnings or capital or whatever.
Speaker Change: For 2025.
Speaker Change: And on your second question.
Speaker Change: You are.
Speaker Change: You.
Speaker Change: Are you finding that there are any particular kind of tradeoffs, you're having to accept that you expect volatility in one area because youre trying to solve for something else.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Comment as he said that his comment that was done in the endorsed with Yamal I got for you right now.
Speaker Change: Asking for technical point, I'm, just trying to remind myself.
Speaker Change: I went on mute.
Speaker Change: It's clearly related to you know values type of investment it is doing.
Speaker Change: When youre managing volatility what the priorities are.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: It's going to do it.
Speaker Change: Well, let me answer a little bit differently, because we always think about lobs and geography, right or maybe in that channel the highest area of attention for the team now has to be on managing customer retention.
Both fuels each that would be the case was that related to the agreements between pinnacle and.
Speaker Change: And the investors into the into those funds. So even if that will be the case that we're not in a position to comment on those so in your margin ARY question Kelly.
Speaker Change: So the MD effect across loss ratio expense ratio and many other items I wanted to come back to this point around.
Speaker Change: They expect that these will materialize itself, depending on the agreement more endesa shape or form of performance fees at some point in time, but please understand that.
Depending how you run the numbers, whether you include partners or not.
Speaker Change: Because you'll have a lot of one off purchases of travel insurance lead you to core retail business acquiring.
Speaker Change: I mean, we don't know all the details into the phones and I can tell you not to comment on that side.
Speaker Change: Between eight and a half and nine 510 million clients every year, losing about eight to nine so we have enormous churn in the system that's fairly expensive. So yeah just to give you a number.
Speaker Change: Oh.
Speaker Change: Great. Thanks, Denise.
Speaker Change: Next question is from.
Speaker Change: William William Hawkins from <unk> go ahead William.
Speaker Change: If we are a top quartile customer acquisition machine in Europe in the core where the core P&C retail is if we were strong on retention as we are an acquisition the net growth of the company.
William Hawkins: Hi, everyone. Thank you.
Speaker Change: All of the coming back to your opening remarks about earning outstanding returns on invested capital we've already covered a lot of things but.
Speaker Change: Across the whole business, where do you think you are getting the best marginal returns on capital that Youre deploying in 2025.
Speaker Change: Doublets.
Speaker Change: Literally doubled and this is there's many levers attached to it we need to change the way, we incentivize distributors, which we're already doing we need to change the way, we underwrite and price in some areas because we do a lot of let's open the house and get everybody in and then pick and choose to how do we think about you know how we manage certain.
Speaker Change: I mean, I like slide 14 about the small growth, but that's kind of a quite high level. If you just tell us from everything we've talked about the one or two things where you feel most bullish that would be great. Please.
Speaker Change: And then secondly primary maybe when.
Speaker Change: You are hedging your financials can you just remind us your prioritization in terms of managing down volatility the metrics across all FRS solvency earnings or capital or whatever.
Speaker Change: Customer interactions in an intelligent way because we treat everyone. The same.
Speaker Change: Even though we have very different lifetime values for clients. So that if you'd asked me where is the.
Are you finding that there are any particular kind of tradeoff shopping to accept that you expect volatility in one area because you're trying to solve for something else.
Speaker Change: Most value added.
Speaker Change: Spend of management attention on capital is there cross selling by the way successful we have under one hand, a very polite roast world and Allianz. We have many clients have 3456 up to 10 products I have and then we have 50% of kinds of value onset of only one by the way even those that have huge and give them.
Speaker Change: I'm asking for technical point, I'm, just try to remind myself.
Speaker Change: When youre managing volatility what the priorities are.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Well, let me answer a little bit differently, because we always think about lobs and geography, right or maybe an air channel the highest area of attention for the team now has to be on managing customer retention.
Speaker Change: Huge NPS promoter scores like on <unk>.
Speaker Change: Life.
Speaker Change: Corporate and individual pensions, where we are not very successful in using that momentum. So that's the other area. It sounds a bit also it's not what is the marginal on property insurance in France that would be the wrong way to look at it sorry for that question. So this is where all the attention or the prerequisite for that is.
Speaker Change: So the and the effect across loss ratio expense ratio and many other items I wanted to come back to this point around.
Speaker Change: Pending how you run the numbers whether you include partners not because you have a lot of one off purchases of travel insurance that lead you to core retail business acquiring.
Speaker Change: Between eight and a half and nine 510 million clients. We are losing about eight to nine so we have enormous churn in the system. That's fairly expensive. So yeah just to give you a number.
Speaker Change: The way it will that we really know what drives these things so having the analytics in place and we've worked a number of years now and now we do know.
Speaker Change: If we are a top quartile customer acquisition machine in Europe in the core where the core P&C retail is if we were strong on retention as we are an acquisition the net growth of the company doubled.
Speaker Change: Yeah, and maybe on your questions on the aging so basically on the maybe on the operating profit side.
Speaker Change: When it comes to currency risk, we are not and you.
Speaker Change: But on the investment side of our currency risk is very limited because we.
Speaker Change: It literally doubled and this is theres many leavers attached to it we need to change the way, we incentivize distributors, which we're already doing we need to change the way, we underwrite and price in some areas because we do a lot of let's open the house and get everybody in and then pick and choose to how do we think about you know how we manage certain.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Because we have to them.
Speaker Change: Is there a limited as we have like a crunchy edging, which are basically paying a rolls out. So that's the way we are thinking about hedging our financial.
Speaker Change: Well actually to you also on the investment.
Speaker Change: Customer interactions in an intelligent way because we treat everyone. The same.
Speaker Change: Ah side, so basically as I was just mentioning so under fixed income we do urge for crunchy always can bacci could I am.
Speaker Change: Even though we have very different lifetime values for clients. So that's if you'd asked me where is the.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Most value added.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks William.
Speaker Change: Spend of management attention and capital is there.
Speaker Change: Next question is from Kamran Hossain from Jpmorgan go ahead Cameron.
Speaker Change: Cross selling by the way successful we are on the one hand, the visualized roast world and Allianz. We have many clients have 3456 up to 10 products I have and then we have 50% of kinds of Valeant are off only one by one.
Hi, Good afternoon, everyone couple of questions from me. The first one was assumed to be I guess, the reserving in the fourth quarter and currency.
Speaker Change: Even those that have huge and give us huge NPS promoter scores like on life.
Speaker Change: Just interested in kind of where you have to answer reserves in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: So you kind of outbreak.
Speaker Change: Life.
Speaker Change: Corporate and individual pensions, where we are not very successful in using that momentum. So that's the other area. It sounds a bit also it's not what is the marginal on property insurance in France that would be the wrong way to look at it sorry for that question. So this is where all the attention or the prerequisite for that is.
Speaker Change: I'm just trying to put two things together from your earlier comments around the inflation reserve it sounds like that wasn't so much on the.
Speaker Change: Along with several more.
Speaker Change: So when you have to strengthen <unk> culture, a little bit more on top of just having children, whether it's kind of a procedure or something else with my understanding is right from a kind of one point.
Speaker Change: Second question is just around I guess.
The way it will that we really know what drives these things so having the analytics in place and we've worked a number of years now and now we do do no.
Speaker Change: Interesting and then I expect that pretty much steady.
Speaker Change: German factory consolidation and any views.
Speaker Change: Thank you so much.
Speaker Change: And let me hit the question because.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah, and maybe on your questions on the aging so basically on the maybe on the operating profit side when.
Speaker Change: It looks like people are asking whether we had under reserving somewhere that we needed to cover right. So let me just hit it from a CEO perspective. It is total nonsense.
Speaker Change: When it comes to currency risk we are not.
Speaker Change: But on the investment side.
Speaker Change: Obviously cautious looking inflation on U S liability, we would always try to make sure we are appropriately reserved but there's nothing that we needed to cover is a problem just to be very clear right. So as clamour retry to politely say, we have been extremely prudent in setting our reserves. So if you say that the average long term.
Speaker Change: Our currency risk is very limited because we.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Because we have to them.
Speaker Change: Very limited as we have like a crunchy edging, which are basically payrolls. They are so that's the way we are thinking about.
Speaker Change: Edging our financial.
Speaker Change: Runoff that Allianz has shown over the last few years and property casually, let's say is between three and 4% and you now have only 1% and you assume we don't have big negative run off then you can make up your mind around you know how much reserve strengthening you have been seeing which we think will make our balance sheet a lot. Most resilient is that up.
Speaker Change: Cynosure will actually to you also on the investment.
Speaker Change: Side, so basically as I was just mentioning so under she can come we do etch for crunchy always can bacci could I am.
Speaker Change: Yes.
William Hawkins: Okay. Thanks William.
Speaker Change: Next question is from Kamran Hossain from Jpmorgan go ahead camera.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Okay and the second one.
Speaker Change: And second point is.
Hi, Don.
Speaker Change: On I think you were referring to.
William Hawkins: Okay.
Iridium.
William Hawkins: Hence we should soon be I guess, the reserving and the full sculpsure and prudently.
Speaker Change: Interesting business model very successful in Germany. As you know Allianz is managing the question of how to efficiently capitalize library those very successfully as you've seen with project Lucy in 'twenty one in the U S and now with concept. So that is an interesting way for us and some partners to look at it.
William Hawkins: Just interested in kind of where you have to answer reserves in the fourth quarter.
William Hawkins: If terms, you'll see come about.
William Hawkins: Okay.
Speaker Change: We like the business model very much let's see what happens.
William Hawkins: Great.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
Speaker Change: I'm not sure the control much.
William Hawkins: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Maybe I can just add on the on the reserve right. Because you are you asking and I think all of it was very clear, but just in case after the divestment as well of the mid quarter U S. Mi book to Entre in U S. Casualty reserves are very small as bottoms. He always takes from us through each of those get announced.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Okay.
William Hawkins: Yeah.
Speaker Change: So it did it was 3% in terms of regions.
William Hawkins: Okay.
Speaker Change: So it's a great year to make sure we have powder drive for the future.
William Hawkins: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Kamran Hossain: Thanks Kamran.
Kamran Hossain: So you're going to take a question that have been emailed because clearly we have problems today with people using the web function. So this question is from Renishaw from Deutsche brings to you just two questions.
Kamran Hossain: How should we think about cash remittances in 2025, we're thinking about 85% guidance and 93% that was reported in 2024 within this what are your respiratory <unk> excess of streaming.
Kamran Hossain: Our exceptional remittances lots of first question.
Speaker Change: Second question Oliver mentioned in his introduction gross won't come from large scale M&A, how about bolt ons and away from Asia, perhaps where could there be opportunities or gaps in Europe or the U S. There's a her two questions. Let me hit the first one thank you very much for the questions and apologies for the functionality will.
Kamran Hossain: Fix it immediately.
Kamran Hossain: Of the web stores one on we have for the last 10 years only done bolt on the biggest ever we did relative to currently whatever 127 billion market cap was the acquisition in Poland and there were lots of questions about that.
Kamran Hossain: On the larger scheme of things all else is actually tiny and we continue to focus on that even more so now.
As fully as you've seen with producing 21 in the U S and now, Wisconsin. So that is an interesting way for us and some partners to look at it.
Speaker Change: The offence supporters and critics why because the opportunity to grow organic market share is significantly higher today, particularly in P&C and life as had been years why.
We like the business.
Very much let's see what happens.
I'm not sure if I'm so much.
Maybe you can.
Speaker Change: The massive increases in the investment requirements in technology and compliance systems in branding and customer service in supporting and maintaining distribution and is leading more and more of our competitors that have marginal national positions to give up you can now read everyday how people are selling.
Just add on the on the reserve right because you are asking and I think what if it was very clear, but just in case.
Just in case.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ed.
Yes.
Yeah.
Right.
Smith.
Okay.
Scheduled to read out.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yes.
Small.
Let's hope so.
Speaker Change: Portfolios in Germany, and other parts of Europe, and how quanta consolidation.
Which takes four months ago.
Hum.
Sure.
Sure.
In terms of.
Speaker Change: Consolidation is happening we believe that organic opportunities in the markets, where we have a very strong position is going to accelerate rather than decelerate.
So.
Thank you.
Okay.
Yes.
Okay.
Great.
Yes.
For the future.
We have powder drive for the future.
Thank you.
Okay.
Thanks Kamran.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And there's a second reason that there is more technical cyclical we have had a lot of competitors in retail, particularly on motor that have held back with price increases and now relative to us have to catch up massively which will drive as we have prepared properly more clients into our direction. Some indication you already see.
Speaker Change: I'm actually going to take your question E mailed to you.
Thanks.
I'm not sure.
We have published.
Yes.
People using the function.
We have.
We spoke to you.
Speaker Change: Sure from Deutsche Bank.
So this question is.
Sure.
Which bank you just two questions.
Speaker Change: In two instances in 2020.
I'm not sure.
Susan.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Guidance.
Yes.
85% guidance.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: In us not just having a 10 point better.
Reported.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Okay.
Speaker Change: The combined ratio in German model than most of the people, including the market leader, but we are also for the first time in a long time on acquiring and retaining more customers. So we really believe there is more room for organic growth not just bolt on M&A and I think it's important for you to see that you'll see that also on life insurance. When you look at the growth that AZ lie.
Speaker Change: Wow.
Thanks, guys.
Speaker Change: First question.
Exceptional solutions.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: Oliver mentioned in his introduction.
Speaker Change: A second question.
Speaker Change: From launch.
Speaker Change: As I mentioned.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: From launch.
Speaker Change: Perhaps because the opportunities are as well.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: There will be opportunities.
Speaker Change: In the U S too.
Speaker Change: Two questions.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Well, thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Had we have been consistently growing market share on the top of very strong performance. So we also need to force our management and ourselves to really look at.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I apologize.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: In FY <unk>.
Speaker Change: Immediately.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Immediately.
Speaker Change: Perhaps.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: One on.
Speaker Change: Louis.
Speaker Change: In the last 10 years.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: The most efficient way to grow that organically acquiring customers not just increasing prices.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: 120 kilowatts.
Speaker Change: Whatever.
Speaker Change: The acquisition important having that with lots of questions about that.
Speaker Change: Market.
Speaker Change: And then we go into the Remingtons question so clearly.
Speaker Change: Lots of questions about that.
Speaker Change: The scheme of things actually.
Speaker Change: Yes exactly.
Speaker Change: And he continued to focus on even more so now.
Speaker Change: As I mentioned already our underlying recurring remittances that had been growing in 2024 by approximately 6% compared to 2023 and I would expect to see our underlying recurring remittances to continue growing basically in line.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Even worse.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: So for us.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: So of course.
Speaker Change: Because the opportunity to boot.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Organic.
Speaker Change: Lisa.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Michigan.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Has it been in years.
Speaker Change: Has it been in years.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Massachusetts and investment requirements.
Speaker Change: And on a gross.
Speaker Change: And last one.
Speaker Change: Gross immediate projected growth of Z Z earnings. In addition to these you answer in 2024, we have seen a bit less of the excess cash remittance is compared to 2023, but I continue to expect approximately $1 billion of excess cash to come.
Speaker Change: Technology.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Speaker Change: Apologies.
Speaker Change: In branded.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Just looking at maintaining distributions.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: <unk> is leading more and more of Hawk.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Oh.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: You can now every day.
Speaker Change: Martin.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Year on year, more or less but it will be lumpy. So you never really know exactly when it's coming so you say to give you a guidance I would expect something like $8 5 billion of net remittance.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Pete.
Speaker Change: In Germany.
Speaker Change: And those things.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Relation of this happening.
Speaker Change: Consolidation.
We believe that organic opportunities.
Speaker Change: We believe that.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Remittances for 2025, and then both 90 billion of our remittance is for 2026 and 2027 for us to meet our commitment of renewables 27 billion of total.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Onto exploration rather than diesel.
Speaker Change: Good morning, Robert.
Speaker Change: There's a second reason that this is more technical cyclical.
In retail.
Speaker Change: We have had another.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: In particular.
Speaker Change: With nice increases and now relative to us.
Speaker Change: Cash remittances over the opposite there yet.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Speaker Change: Revenue.
Speaker Change: Mark.
Speaker Change: Which will drive as we have.
Speaker Change: Great. Thanks for those questions.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: We will go back to the phone lines on Fahad Fahad trying ghazi from Kepler.
Okay.
Speaker Change: In all directions.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: Let me see.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Speaker Change: It's not just that.
Speaker Change: Do you Wanna go ahead.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: The combined ratio in German model than most of the table, including the market leader, but you also.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Fahad Fahad: Thank you very much for taking my question.
Speaker Change: Ratio.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Can I just.
Speaker Change: I'm a long time.
Speaker Change: Pardon.
Speaker Change: Take you back to the C M D and your low solvency too.
Speaker Change: If anything Mark.
Speaker Change: Acquiring <unk>.
Speaker Change: So we really like.
Speaker Change: There is more room to.
Speaker Change: Are your operations do.
It's more for Gary.
Speaker Change: It grows just bolt on M&A and I think it's important for you to see that you see that also on life insurance when you look at the light.
Speaker Change: Do you have any update or actions that you've got planned in 2025.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: To improve those returns.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Second question, just because you've given the guidance on the operating capital generation.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: You bet.
Speaker Change: Currently growing market share on the top of a strong performance.
Speaker Change: And we go to market.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Also need to source.
Speaker Change: Life as to operating cash churn was lower in 2024 I appreciate the 20% for 'twenty five but could you give some guidance on that particular.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Oh gosh.
Speaker Change: Got it.
Speaker Change: Awesome.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Most efficient way to grow that is organically acquiring customers not just increasing prices.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Additionally.
Speaker Change: Oh great.
Speaker Change: Capture and going into 2025, thank you.
Speaker Change: Sorry.
Speaker Change: It's increasing.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Let me go into the Army question.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: So basically youre right so to walk to ones that 24 to 25 percentage points of operating capital generation. We have design you remember that very well I assume like the capital market, the toolbox, which was going through a number of dimensions.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I mentioned on the radio.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: Yes.
He's had a good growth.
Richard: Good morning, Richard.
Speaker Change: In 2024.
Richard: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: The 2020.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I would expect to hear.
Speaker Change: We're trying to accomplish.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Enrichment.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Against which we had as an example.
Speaker Change: To continue growing.
Speaker Change: Just two questions.
Speaker Change: Nine.
Speaker Change: Some elements around the moving some of our operating entities to the stuff I'm just on that model to an internal model that we had also.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Oh of course.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: We'll also be taking place.
Speaker Change: In addition to the U N V 22.
Speaker Change: It has our views around optimization of the portfolios and so on and so forth. So I think I mean, we are working on all those leaders and they are currently in execution mode, when exactly they're going to emerge with exactly what effect I cannot tell you at this point in time, but we are structurally walking.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Thank you Sean.
Speaker Change: Wanted to ask a question in terms of as compared to 2023.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: You too.
Speaker Change: When do you take it.
Duda: Mr Duda and after.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah more or less.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: To give you a guidance.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Along the along the lines.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Of the obviously of the toolbox I had mentioned at that point in time.
We have no connection.
Sure.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: <unk> in 2025, and then were both 90 million also when you turn to slide.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: What on your point on the lower level after.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: They just can't win.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: In two weeks.
Speaker Change: Susan.
Speaker Change: Operating capital generation for life in 2024 compared to previous EUR right.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Duda: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: And she also has a obviously italia.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I've seen usually what where do we see that we have a higher reserve.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Obviously.
Speaker Change: Great. Thanks for those questions.
Speaker Change: So new business in life is consuming less capital versus the old business, that's quite logical because if we are growing in our pressure line of business.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: We'll get back to.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: One is on <unk>.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Go ahead.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much for taking my question.
Speaker Change: Last year the growth was so big.
Speaker Change: That's great.
Yes.
Speaker Change: The UK is a new business not a could not be absorbed the entire lead by the by the run off of <unk>.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Mario three.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: All businesses. That's why you have seen that the SEC, so I think going forward.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: Do you have any update or actions.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: So it hasn't yet.
Speaker Change: <unk> hundred.
Speaker Change: Each.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: And you can be priced to improve those returns.
Of course is in line with what we have been communicating and digitally I would expect to have something in line with what you have some previous.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: Second question just to close.
Speaker Change: Those returns.
Speaker Change: Given the guidance now.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: The operating capital generation.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Got it.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Right.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Paul.
Speaker Change: Operating cash churn was lower in 2024.
Yeah.
Speaker Change: Question is from Henri Henri Field of Morningstar go ahead Henry.
Speaker Change: I appreciate the 20% refi, but could you give some guidance on that particular.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: But.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Henry is your line on mute.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: So basically youre right so to walk to runs at 20.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: I think we've fallen victim to the IP phone.
Speaker Change: And the reason that we have to remember that.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: [noise] Gpus.
Speaker Change: Virus, Okay, we'll take the next question from.
Scone: Whom language into the market into two bucks, which was going through a number of dimensions.
Andrew Crean: Andrew Crean, Andrew from Autonomous go ahead Andre.
Speaker Change: Against which we have as an example.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: So many minutes are on smoothing out the ATM G piece to just off I'm just wondering what is your intent.
Speaker Change: Hi couple of questions. One on slide 13, I Wonder whether you could split the discounting not cat runoff.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Sure I mean.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: As our views around.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: That's it for us.
Speaker Change: Zero.
Speaker Change: What was it before you always have sequential.
Speaker Change: I mean, yeah walk you on all of those events.
Speaker Change: Effects between retail and commercial.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Second question on your 26% Stakes in the Indian businesses with Brazil.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Lord and exotic.
Speaker Change: He doesn't launch with exactly what they can do that.
Scone: Yes.
Scone: Yes.
Speaker Change: But we have to assure you walking.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Could you give us a sense of what you think the value there.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Relative to what you're carrying in the books for.
Speaker Change: Oh yeah.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Yeah.
Speaker Change: Obviously I had mentioned at that point.
Speaker Change: [noise] I think those are very good questions.
Speaker Change: Absolutely.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Jeff.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: On your point on the robot.
Speaker Change: [noise] Alpha generation.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: On the 20% stake in a in a bad judge So this is Susan.
Speaker Change: He kept their generation.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Speaker Change: 26%.
Speaker Change: I see.
Speaker Change: She usually.
Speaker Change: In Baghdad.
Yeah.
You will understand I cannot really comment comment on on that one.
Speaker Change: Usually.
Yeah.
Speaker Change: Got it.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: And as mentioned we are very interested in our in the Indian market for us it's strategically very relevant and we are we are looking at ways to strengthen our establishment in India as opposed to anything else.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Yeah.
Speaker Change: That's quite a switch he called me basically are growing in all nine of these.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Rohit.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Be safe.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Do you have to sell the entire lead by the major write offs.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: And then I think you are asking for this page shows you glad you asked it between retail and commercial of the of the combined ratio components, if I understood well on page 13.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: The next thing that's quite exciting.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: That's great.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: And you keep doing that.
Speaker Change: We do not provide a is that a is that split if you have any specific questions.
Speaker Change: Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: My assumption.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: <unk> 20th century <unk> developments.
Speaker Change: Great.
Paul: Thanks, Paul.
[laughter].
Paul: Question is from Henri <unk> field of Kevin is that right.
Speaker Change: To give you some color you should tell me, what where do you see you will be more interested in understanding.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Alright.
Paul: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Paul: Okay.
Paul: [noise] Henry as you learn on mute.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Sounds like you're better off late.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Sorry.
Speaker Change: Your line on mute.
Paul: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I'll take it offline yeah, okay very good.
Paul: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Paul: We've fallen victim to the pay phone.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks, Andrew.
Yeah.
Paul: The next question from.
Speaker Change: The next question is from Payless shoes mystery of HSBC go ahead, Chris.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Paul: Yes.
Andrew.
Paul: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Andrew.
Paul: Okay.
Paul: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Good afternoon, a couple of follow up questions one.
Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Hi, Dan couple of questions one on slide <unk>.
Paul: Yeah.
Speaker Change: On the coffee consumption could.
Paul: Alright.
Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Could you just elaborate on the how the $1 2 billion.
Paul: Alright.
Paul: Got it.
Paul: Why.
Paul: Yes.
Paul: Alright.
Speaker Change: Credential capital consumption is split between the life.
Paul: Correct.
Paul: Great.
Paul: Yes.
Paul: Great.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Paul: Yes.
Paul: Sure.
Speaker Change: Other businesses going forward, particularly for the life business how should we.
Paul: Right.
Paul: Sure.
Paul: Your 26.
Paul: Understood.
Paul: 6% unchanged.
Paul: Okay.
Speaker Change: This to grow over the next three years I think in response to one of the previous questions I can't be implication of that is.
Paul: She is with me.
Paul: Yes.
Paul: Okay.
Paul: Yes.
Paul: Could you give us a sense.
Paul: Could you give us.
Paul: Good afternoon.
Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Okay.
Paul: No.
Paul: Okay.
Speaker Change: Probably it does not grow because the runoff should offset.
Paul: Sure.
Paul: Okay.
Paul: Okay.
Yeah.
Speaker Change: The business capital consumption.
Right.
Paul: I think it's also a very good question.
Speaker Change: Second question is just a follow up on Will's question around focus on organic growth channels and.
Paul: Yeah.
Paul: No.
Paul: No.
Paul: Perfect.
Paul: Uh huh.
Paul: Yeah.
Paul: Uh huh.
Paul: So are you trying to shirk, especially until they can imagine easy.
Paul: Sure.
Paul: Richard.
Speaker Change: Customer retention et cetera could you just talk about.
Paul: Right.
Paul: And that should be incremental momentum.
Paul: Okay.
Paul: Yes.
Speaker Change: How management and distributor incentives when he.
Paul: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Things have been over to rich.
Speaker Change: This shift in emphasis.
Speaker Change: And margin of the group.
Speaker Change: One last quick one if I may.
Speaker Change: 7% to 9% per annum core EPS growth target.
Speaker Change: They'll be placed on the 25 year round.
Speaker Change: Or is it the.
Speaker Change: 25, and a half.
Speaker Change: You reported Tonight.
Speaker Change: Okay I'll start with the last one is basically based on the midpoint. So we are not changing our.
Speaker Change: Our guidance compared to our competitors, you'll get to the market in terms of commitment.
Speaker Change: At for this one and then I think you are.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: And then just second question.
Speaker Change: That's the whole group and then what.
Speaker Change: Introductory or.
Speaker Change: Like the silver can use all over.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Let me before Camry as just a technical question.
Speaker Change: The question is very good the first one is in order to really start to drive.
On a two 7% to 9% per annum core EPS growth target would that still be based on the 25 euros.
Speaker Change: Retention you need to know the numbers and you need to know what drives that and what doesn't and.
Speaker Change: And we've spent needed quite a few years across products and markets to build the database.
EPS or is it the 25 and a half that.
You reported Tonight.
Speaker Change: Then incentives are super important we used to incentivize our retention to a certain point, but not great net growth in policies. So what we are in fact doing now across the portfolio is to look at net grows in order to make sure. We understand that so you had the distribution of agents that are very strong and acquire.
Okay I just thought we should.
Last one is do you see based on the midpoint. So we are not changing our.
Our guidance compared to our competitors the triptan market Dms could each meant.
For Q1.
And then I think you had.
Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Current customers and others are better in retention I know you know the hunters versus Depalma pictures, we've learned over the years that it's not just a crude this affords.
And then just.
So second question does that lucid ICL group and then what's.
The trajectory or.
Speaker Change: Mentation and you need to really drive all our portfolios.
Licensing all breaking news will be over.
Yeah.
Speaker Change: With the same towards it took us quite a while to find out how that expired the way our.
Let me before Camry as just a technical question. So the question is about the first one is in order to really start to drive.
Speaker Change: New Orleans direct platform that we now have across four markets is helping because we get real time data on how that actually functions in that we're feeding in all our other channels.
Speaker Change: Retention, you'll need to know the numbers and you need to know what drives that and what doesn't.
Speaker Change: And we've spent needed quite a few years across products and markets to build the database.
Speaker Change: It's also true that we have for example, incentivising customer segment or product experts think about group.
Speaker Change: And then incentives are super important we used to incentivize retention to a certain point, but not red.
Speaker Change: Good pension experts so not just any more focus only on that but having super incentives we call them boost dose. We can talk about that offline in order to drive retention and cross selling much more strongly so the change is holistic we launched that last year, we're going to have on our leadership's meeting this year.
Speaker Change: So what we are in fact doing now across the portfolio is to look at net growth in order to make sure. We understand that so you had the distribution of agents that are very strong in acquiring customers and others are better in retention.
Speaker Change: Our consistent steering towards that end, but the requirement is always the same you have to have outstanding products in every market and we should not be having mediocre stuff you have to have outstanding service capabilities and deliver then we're not everywhere, yet and you need to make sure that you properly price not just what you think.
Speaker Change: The hunters versus Depalma pictures, we've learned over the years that it's not just a crude is a false.
Speaker Change: Segmentation and you need to really drive all our portfolios.
Speaker Change: With the same towards it took us quite a while to find out how that expired the way our.
Speaker Change: New Orleans direct platform that we now have across four markets is helping because we get real time data on how that actually functions that were feeding in all our other channels.
Speaker Change: You need in order to offset inflation.
Speaker Change: But have the right product and services mix that give clients what they want and what they are ready to pay for and let me hone in on that one of the biggest it's an intellectually interesting hopefully comment for you. This industry has learned a lot to deal with legislation and price elasticity, we have not been great and forecasting and testing wide.
Speaker Change: It's also true that we have for example, incentivising customer segment or product experts think about.
Speaker Change: So just any more focus only on that but having super incentives we call them boost dose we can talk about that offline in order to drive retention and cross selling much more strongly so the change is holistic we launched AD last year, we're going to have on our leadership's meeting this year.
Speaker Change: People are sensitive to price changes and what they are ready to pay for it.
Speaker Change: There's a lot of very interesting and sometimes illogical behavior are people why they pay for certain services, where theyre not don't do that and this is not about taking advantage from people then overcharging them in things that should be overcharged on but making sure we give them things that they really value. So that's it's a little bit of a.
Speaker Change: Consistent steering towards that end, but the requirement is always the same you have to have outstanding products in every market and we should not be having mediocre stuff.
Have outstanding service capabilities and deliver then we're not everywhere, yet and you need to make sure that you properly priced not just what you think you need in order to offset inflation.
Speaker Change: Look into the cookbook, we spend a little bit of time on the CMV on it there's a lot more to come over the next two years a calamity you had some SCR gross.
Speaker Change: But have the right product and services mix that give clients what they want and what they are ready to pay for and let me hone in on that one of the biggest it's an intellectually interesting hopefully comment for you. This industry has learned a lot to deal with legislation and price elasticity, we have not been great and forecasting and testing why people.
Speaker Change: Isn't it.
Speaker Change: So to answer your question on approximately issue if you want to take to get a sense of it.
Speaker Change: It's like one said.
Speaker Change: The SCR development associated to life in Tucson that shows associated to P&C.
Speaker Change: And Don I hang off of the one two.
Speaker Change: I think nonetheless, I'd like to highlight maybe one point is that is very much related to the business. We are underwriting or do you see right through lags and depending on the diversification.
Speaker Change: Are sensitive to price changes and what they are ready to pay for it.
Speaker Change: There's a lot of very interesting and sometimes logical behavior are people why they pay for certain services, where theyre not don't do that and this is not about taking advantage from people then overcharging them in things that should be overcharged on but making sure we give them things that they really value.
Speaker Change: Profile basically depending on the nature of the business and the diversification amongst businesses then you get a different outcome. So I don't think you can use that as a straightforward.
Speaker Change: They meant to extrapolate what you should expect to see.
Speaker Change: It's a little bit of a.
Speaker Change: So going forward just to say, it's not obvious.
Speaker Change: Look into the cookbook, we spend a little bit of time on the CMV on it there's a lot more to come over the next two years.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Henry let's try again.
Richard: You had some SCR gross.
Speaker Change: He felt from Morningstar go ahead.
Speaker Change: So to answer your question absolutely mix issue, if you want to take to get a sense.
Speaker Change: All right.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Like one said, our SCR development associated to life in Tucson associated to P&C.
Henry I'm afraid we can't hear you I think this is if you're on an IP phone, it's not working today.
Speaker Change: Indian donating of Zuma one.
Okay.
Speaker Change: One two.
Speaker Change: Okay. So.
Speaker Change: I think nonetheless, I'd like to highlight maybe one point is that is very much related to the readiness. We are underwriting will you see right through <unk>, depending on the diversification.
Speaker Change: We got some follow ups.
Speaker Change: Let's keep these four shop so Michael.
Michael Huttner: A quick follow up for me Michael Huttner from Bahrenburg go ahead.
Speaker Change: Basically depending on the nature of the business and the diversification amongst businesses then you get a different outcome. So I don't think you can use that as a straightforward element to extrapolate what you should expect to see also going forward just to say it's not obvious.
Michael Huttner: Thank you very quick follow up.
Michael Huttner: The line seems to be the biggest area for beach.
Michael Huttner: And you said, you're still fine tuning how it works can you get it.
Michael Huttner: Thinking of where it's come from because there's not.
Michael Huttner: There's other bits and it.
Michael Huttner: It would really help thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks.
Michael Huttner: I'm not sure.
Duda: Henry Let's try again, Henry Heathfield from Morningstar go ahead.
Michael Huttner: I fully understand your point I think what I was mentioning is on the <unk>.
Michael Huttner: CSR development right, it's not on what do we expect to see in terms of development.
Speaker Change: All right.
Michael Huttner: Perfect underlying yeah.
Speaker Change: [laughter].
Michael Huttner: So the life profit was above your expectations of 7% or something.
Speaker Change: No Henry I'm afraid we can't hear you I think this is if you're on an IP phone, it's not working today.
Michael Huttner: And you said it.
Michael Huttner: The thing, but it's not the CSM cause the CSM is only part of it and I just wondered whereas the beats coming from Where's the positives coming from cause.
Speaker Change: Okay. So we got some follow ups.
Speaker Change: Let's keep these follow ups shop, so Michael.
Michael Huttner: That sounds quite powerful.
Michael Huttner:
Michael Huttner: A quick follow up for me Michael Huttner from Bahrenburg go ahead.
Michael Huttner: Uh huh.
Michael Huttner: So basically we are I mean, some of the some of the.
Speaker Change: I think my comments in general it was more related just to say there is a level of growth. We have seen <unk> came into this GSM that he still to be right and I was trying to give you an indication that I don't think that is very highly thought of course can basically be anticipated to reopen entirely again this year for the reasons.
Speaker Change: Thank you very quick follow up.
Speaker Change: The line seems to be the biggest area for beach.
Speaker Change: And you said you were still fine tuning how it works can you give me.
Speaker Change: I think thinking of where it's come from.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: That's really helpful. Thank you.
Speaker Change: I'm not sure I fully understand your point I think what I was mentioning is on the CSR development right.
Michael Huttner: We have <unk> us.
Michael Huttner: When you kind of it.
Michael Huttner: On the on the one end and secondly, we had some specific one offs into the into the numbers of 2024 that you cannot take you know.
Speaker Change: Do we expect to hear in terms of development.
Speaker Change: 399.
Speaker Change: So the life profit was above your expectations of 7% or something.
Michael Huttner: At Guaranty Tau for ability to come through that's basically what I meant there I mean, and then maybe to your point and I think maybe you are alluding to the fact that we had some.
Speaker Change: And you said it.
Speaker Change: The thing, but it's not the CSM cause the CSM is only part of it and I just wondered whereas the beats coming from what are the positives coming from.
Michael Huttner: Positive <unk>.
Michael Huttner: I N T that came between the CSM released and the operating profit, which there is more any sector for them. So we had some data of IMTT in particular in the fourth quarter or is that all related to two effects may need. The first one is that we are debating expanse compared to what we were expecting in the French health portfolio that you bought it positively.
Speaker Change: That sounds quite powerful.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: So basically we are I mean.
Speaker Change: Some of the some of the I think my comments in general it was more related.
Speaker Change: So there is two there of course, we as you know it would immediately.
Scone: Came into this year. It seems that you seem to be right and I was trying to give you an indication that I don't think that is very.
Michael Huttner: That line item and secondly, we had some negatives alien.
Speaker Change: Hi, Oliver of course can basically be anticipated to re up an entire gain year for the reason that we have <unk> us.
Michael Huttner: I mean correction that took place back in 2023.
Michael Huttner: Our annualized portfolio that did not happen again, and because they were expecting to be one off.
Speaker Change: When you kind of it.
Speaker Change: On the on the one end and secondly, we had some one.
Michael Huttner: 2023, so those are the main effects.
Speaker Change: One offs into the into the numbers of 2024 that you cannot take you know.
Michael Huttner: And that does explain some of that development in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Guarantee tau for ability to come through that's basically what I meant there then.
Super helpful. Thank you you're welcome.
Michael Huttner: Okay.
Speaker Change: And then maybe to your point and I think maybe you are alluding to the fact that we had some.
Speaker Change: Nashville, William go ahead, William comparatively William Hawkins from capital.
Speaker Change: <unk> came between this GSM released and the operating proceeds we used to.
Michael Huttner: Okay.
Speaker Change: Alright, Thank you and I'm, sorry to truck to call out.
Speaker Change: There is more.
Speaker Change: Sector for them. So we had some data of IMTT in particular in the fourth quarter or is that all related to two effects, mainly just one is that we had the data science compared to what we were expecting in the French health portfolio that you bought it for heating lease at that line item and secondly, we had some <expletive> Ts alien.
Speaker Change: To follow up on that response about viridian. Please Oliver obviously I'm not asking for any deal sensitive information, but conceptually how could a third party vehicle ever add value Charlie I'm sleeping in Germany, when you've already got the massive cost of capital advantage in the free RFP if the original portfolio.
Speaker Change: Germany is a completely different situation from the U S, where youre deploying concept right. So I'm just trying to get clear in my mind, what am I missing in terms of what can happen in Germany.
Speaker Change: Correction that took place back in 2023 on our easy life portfolios that do not happen again, and because they were expecting to be one off in 2023 those are the main effects.
Speaker Change: I think you're not missing anything, but as you well know I'm not allowed to answer your question, even though it would be super keen to answer it.
Speaker Change: And that does explain some of that development in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: I think my point was more like country, how third party capital can help a German company like yours.
Speaker Change: Super helpful. Thank you Youre welcome.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Okay.
It's not about capital efficiency, you think about asset management income for example.
Speaker Change: Nashville, William go ahead, William comparatively Wilkins from collaboratively.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: And then let's go to our last question.
Speaker Change: Alright, Thank you and I'm, sorry to truck to call out.
Speaker Change: From Andrew Andrew Sinclair of Bank of America go ahead Andrew.
Paul: Follow up on that response about iridium is Oliver.
Paul: Asking for any deal sensitive information, but conceptually how could a third party vehicle ever add value trailing I'm sleeping in Germany, when you've already got the massive cost of capital advantage in the free RFP if the original portfolio.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Holdco liquidity buffer apologies I missed us.
Speaker Change: You gave the 8 billion figure of the CMT in December.
Speaker Change: Have you got an updated figure for that I didn't see it in our pocket.
Paul: Germany is a completely different situation from the U S, where youre deploying concept right. So I'm just trying to get clear in my mind, what am I missing in terms of what can happen in Germany.
Speaker Change: Is there a focus.
Speaker Change: So it will be you can I think Andrew I mean, that's a liquidity buffer. So that said, we think we need to hold in.
Paul: I think you're not missing anything, but as you well know I'm not allowed to answer your question, even though it would be super keen to answer it.
Speaker Change: In case, something really adverse will happen or in case the market would be closed right. So I think all of us as I mentioned as well we have a very sophisticated way of assessing what should be the other upside buffeting lighting to values type of scenarios and so on and so forth to our views compared to December I have not moved so as that.
Paul: I think my point was more like obviously, how first capital can help a German company.
Paul: It's not about capital efficiency think about asset management income for example.
Paul: Okay.
Speaker Change: That's very similar to what we think we need to hold and that's been very close to what we are doing as well.
Paul: And then let's go to our last question.
Speaker Change: A follow up from Andrew Andrew Sinclair of Bank of America go ahead Andrew.
Speaker Change: As of the cell.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Paul: Okay. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Okay great.
Paul: Holdco liquidity buffer.
Speaker Change: Well, thanks very much.
Paul: Yes.
Speaker Change: Completes our Q&A, if you have any follow ups.
Paul: You can figure out the CMT and <unk>.
Speaker Change: To get in touch.
Speaker Change: Have you got an updated figure for that I didn't see it in the past.
Speaker Change: With the IR team. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Have a good rest of the day. Thank you thanks for your support and interest.
Speaker Change: It would be helpful is there my apologies.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Paul: So it will be you can I think Andrew I mean is that a liquidity buffer. So that said, we think we need to hold.
Paul: In case, something really adverse will happen or in case.
Paul: The market would be closed right. So I think all of us.
Paul: As I mentioned as well, we have a very sophisticated way.
Fishing, what should we be aware of that.
Paul: The first thing to value type of scenarios and so on that so far so our views compared to December off not moved so that's.
Paul: That's a very similar to what we've seen too old and that's basically very close to what reality.
Paul: As of the cell.
Paul: Thank you.
Paul: Okay great.
Speaker Change: Hello, Thanks, very much the completes our Q&A. If you have any follow ups don't hesitate to get in touch.
Paul: With the IR team. Thank you very much.
Paul: Have a good rest of the day. Thank you thanks for your support and interest.
Paul: Hi.
Paul: Yeah.