Q4 2024 Osisko Gold Royalties Ltd Earnings Call
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Speaker Change: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the a Cisco gold royalties Q4 and year 2024 results conference call.
Speaker Change: After the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question. Please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Please note that this call is being recorded today February 20th 2025 at 10, a M eastern time.
Speaker Change: I'd now like to turn the meeting over to our host for today's call Mr. Jason It too.
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Speaker Change: Jim not to do that parallel ever cope Mr. Jason that too.
Speaker Change: Good morning, everybody and thanks for being on today's call.
Speaker Change: For those of us in Quebec, or Ontario, I hope to run on snow shovels will behind US soon so we can turn our minds to more temperate outdoor activities.
Speaker Change: Procedurally I'll run through a prepared presentation and then we will subsequently open up the line for question and answer session.
Speaker Change: For those participating online via the webcast you can submit your questions in advance through the webcast platform.
Speaker Change: Today's presentation will also be available and downloadable online through our corporate website.
Speaker Change: Please note there are forward looking statements in this presentation from which actual results may differ.
Speaker Change: Also please note that given.
Speaker Change: We have now officially shifted our presentation currency to U S dollars the basis of presentation will all be in USD unless otherwise noted.
Speaker Change: I'm joined on the call. This morning by Frederick Ruelle, The company's Chief Financial Officer, and VP finance amongst the others as indicated on slide three.
Speaker Change: When looking at Cisco as full year 2024, and as noted in our preliminary Q4 'twenty four numbers that we released back in early January the company had a very solid year.
Speaker Change: <unk> considered.
Speaker Change: Cisco earned 20005 gold equivalent ounces in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: 2024, which allowed us to end the year at 80000, and 740 G O as in aggregate.
Speaker Change: Figure that came in slightly above the midpoint of the company's revised guidance of 77 to 83000 Geos for the full year 2024.
Speaker Change: Buoyed by strong precious metals prices Cisco achieved record annual revenues of U S $191 2 million at a peer leading cash margin of 96, 5%.
Speaker Change: Thanks to another strong annual performance from our cornerstone, 5% royalty at Agnico Eagle's Canadian Mill Arctic mine as well as impressive results from our other operating partners.
Speaker Change: Cisco ended the 2024 year with $59 million in cash and net debt of just under $35 million. After the company paid down almost $85 million against the revolving credit facility throughout 2024.
Speaker Change: Recall that draws against the facility were made in Q4 'twenty four upon the closing of both the DAU grandeur royalty transaction as well as the Gibraltar silver stream amendments both of which were announced and closed last year.
Speaker Change: With respect to our ongoing commitment to return capital to shareholders. The company declared and paid quarterly dividend of $6.05 per share in Q4, marking its 40 <unk> consecutive dividend with over 316 million Canadian.
Speaker Change: Return to shareholders from these distributions.
Speaker Change: Subsequent to the quarter Cisco's Cisco's Board approved a quarterly dividend of $6.05 per common share payable on April 15th 2000 22025 to.
Speaker Change: To shareholders of record as of close of business on March 31 2025.
Speaker Change: Not only does our long term growth trajectory still spell great things coming for a Cisco five years out but the company is also still expecting G O delivery growth in 2025 over 2024.
Speaker Change: However, the slope of that growth is likely less steep than we previously anticipated more on that later.
Speaker Change: We're extremely proud of the just under 300 million U S dollars of transactions that we committed to and are closed in 2024, marking the second consecutive year in which a Cisco deployed capital of a Sim similar quantum.
Speaker Change: With respect to our opportunity set the company's pipeline continues to remain robust with our corporate development team running at full steam and we remain optimistic that a Cisco will complete at least one or possibly two meaningful transactions in 2025.
Speaker Change: We now pivot to the company's financial performance for the full year of 2024.
Speaker Change: For those that are interested.
Speaker Change: Quarterly numbers for Q4 can be found in the appendix of today's presentation.
Speaker Change: As previously noted annual revenues were a record for the company and effectively tracked higher year over year precious metal prices.
Despite lower reported year over year Geo deliveries when compared to the full year of 2023.
Speaker Change: 2024, net earnings of nine cents per share represent a substantial increase over 2023.
Speaker Change: The latter of which was affected primarily by significant noncash impairment charges on investments.
Speaker Change: Most importantly, though 2024, so yet another year over year improvement in cash flow per share.
Speaker Change: The seventh consecutive year of cash flow per share increases.
Speaker Change: As well as positive annual adjusted earnings of 52 per common share.
Speaker Change: As at the end of 2024, the company had 21 producing assets with the addition of our newest production asset than anemic mine in Ghana.
Speaker Change: It was reported that the mine did reach the significant milestone of pouring its first gold in November of last year.
Speaker Change: Cisco's Geos earned in 2024 come predominantly from Canada, and we derived just over 93% of our geos from precious metals gold represent representing 67% and silver at 27% with the remainder coming primarily from copper.
Speaker Change: In terms of contributions to our Cisco's Geo delivery profile.
Speaker Change: A key difference heading into 2025.
Speaker Change: Is that the other category now primary Larry consists of copper versus previous years, where that category used to primary consist of diamonds.
Speaker Change: This will continue going forward 2025 should be the first full year of contributions from the CSA copper stream.
Speaker Change: Cisco is near to medium term, we will see additional base metal contributions in the form of cell 30, twos or most of Taylor and Merrimack of Koppers M O D project.
Speaker Change: Some comments on specific mine performances during the 2024 year before speaking, but a couple of more material assets in greater detail.
Speaker Change: The Canadian Malarchuk had yet another impressive year <unk> will continue to source ore feed primarily from the Barnett pit.
The asset remains of Cisco's, most significant contributor to Geos earned by a solid solid margin.
Speaker Change: We don't expect that to change anytime soon and we could not be more pleased about this.
Speaker Change: Performance from Capstone Mantles Blancos operation, Unfortunately experienced a year over year decrease in large part due to milling rates well below phase one expansion design levels of 20000 ton per day.
Speaker Change: Recall that given our two month lag of the silver stream from Mentos Cisco is G O delivery year effectively ended on October 31 2024.
Speaker Change: Now the good news is that since then capstone as reported in the final two months of 2024 and now also into 2025. The mill has been operating comfortably at phase one nameplate throughput.
Speaker Change: We truly believe that as it relates to the previous throughput bottlenecks at Mentos Blancos <unk>.
Speaker Change: Capstone has officially turned the corner.
Speaker Change: I'd like to recognize their operational team on the significant achievement and I'll speak more on Mentos Blancos later in my remarks.
Speaker Change: As it relates to other assets.
Speaker Change: I would highlight how quickly Mac copper CSA has become a key asset for our sysco.
Speaker Change: And that should continue into both 2025 and for many many years to come.
We believe we are now in the early innings of what will be ongoing and meaningful geo growth coming from the Alamo Scolds Island Gold district.
Speaker Change: Especially as our partner looks to complete its phase III expansion at island, including the shaft and the first half of 2026.
Speaker Change: As I mentioned earlier the number of currently producing assets in our portfolio actually stands at 20 <unk> is excluded.
Speaker Change: And despite our understanding that the mine poured its first gold back in November 2024, our first meaningful payment from <unk> is now expected to be received in the second half of 2025 and.
Speaker Change: And we will bring the number of producing <unk> paying assets to 'twenty one.
Speaker Change: At this stage in terms of organic growth, we're expecting this 'twenty one number to stay flat through 2025 with no new assets already in the portfolio are expected to come online between now and the end of the year.
Speaker Change: If one were to ask what differentiates a cisco from its peers jurisdictions with limited geopolitical strife certainly at the top of the list on.
Speaker Change: On slide eight cisco's exposure to tier one mining jurisdictions, which we've defined as Canada. The U S and Australia is second to none.
Speaker Change: This slide compares with Cisco to its peers on a net asset value basis, So accounts for both current and future exposure.
Speaker Change: As you can see sysco stands out versus its relevant peer set by a very sizable margin.
Speaker Change: This peer leading exposure to tier one mining jurisdictions.
Speaker Change: Pain, a top consideration when assessing new opportunities for our company.
Speaker Change: As such it is no accident that a Cisco was the only company amongst those on the page that in 2024 to have actually increased its NAV exposure in these jurisdictions.
Speaker Change: Primarily through the Delta Ranga acquisition and the Gibraltar Amendment.
I would like to note that if you were to strictly look on a geo basis for 2024, our exposure to tier one mining jurisdictions is roughly the same as our net asset value at 78%.
Speaker Change: Before I discuss our Cisco's updated 2025 guidance and 2029 and five year outlook.
Speaker Change: I wanted to take some time to highlight a couple of our key assets in our portfolio.
Speaker Change: And I'll start with the assets that will likely be providing the biggest number of positive external catalyst to our Cisco in 2025.
Speaker Change: At least as it relates to crystallizing its pathway towards future growth and that is Alamos Gold Island Gold district.
Speaker Change: Prior to the completion of the phase III expansion shaft at island in the first half of 2026th and the subsequent doubling of underground mining rates.
Speaker Change: <unk> is expecting to rollout a trifecta of good news over the next 12 months.
Speaker Change: In fact, we've already received the first of the three pieces of good news with Alamos recently announcing the ninth consecutive annual increase in reserves.
Speaker Change: This updated mineral reserve will serve as a basis for an updated life of mine plan at Island Gold District.
Speaker Change: Which now obviously includes island gold marginal in the Medina mill.
Speaker Change: This life of mine plan is a second piece of good news and is expected to be released in mid 2025.
Speaker Change: Finally, before the end of the year Alamos is expected to release the results of an island Gold district expansion study.
Speaker Change: Which could potentially see underground mining rates increase beyond the current expectation of 24.
Speaker Change: 100 tonnes per day.
Speaker Change: We would expect or we would we would recommend our shareholders to continue to watch this space as Alamos continues to take what was already a phenomenal asset it makes it even bigger and better.
Agnico Eagle: Just under a week ago Agnico Eagle provided a comprehensive update as it relates to our cornerstone asset <unk>.
Speaker Change: Canadian melodic complex.
Speaker Change: And as always were certainly some key items of note.
Speaker Change: First the assets 2025 guidance was decreased slightly versus previous expectations.
Speaker Change: Due to agnico, finishing off the necessary technical work to allow for continued in pit tailings disposal.
Speaker Change: This works is expected to be completed in Q2, meaning.
Speaker Change: Meaning the main impact of this adjustment will be seen in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Second what could be seen as a modest loss of ounces in 2025 us as being more than made up by increased production from the mine in 2027, surpassing previous expectations.
Speaker Change: Largely things to progress being made underground with Odyssey now expected to contribute to an impressive 240000 ounces to the overall mix of Canadian mill Arctic that year.
Speaker Change: Of note for 2026 expectations were largely unchanged.
Speaker Change: Thirdly exploration continues to be a key focus for agnico, a Canadian mill Arctic with $40 million of spending expected in 2025.
Speaker Change: These results will help provide the geological data that will inform future expansions at Odyssey, including a conceptual second shaft scenario.
Speaker Change: Exploration initiatives continue to pay dividends for agnico with Agnico last week announcing the discovery of the new underground Eclipse film, which is fully covered by a 5% royalty.
Speaker Change: Finally, some additional information was provided in terms of <unk> vision to bring.
Speaker Change: The complex to 1 million ounces of production in the 2000 Thirty's.
Speaker Change: This would include a second shaft. In addition to the recently consolidated regional opportunities to quote unquote fill the mill.
Speaker Change: Studies are underway on Marvin, which Cisco has roughly a 0.9% MSR.
Speaker Change: For a 15000 ton per day through the mill Arctic mill as early as 'twenty 33.
Speaker Change: Well I like Nico is looking at Wassa, Max supplying 3000 tonnes per day at some point going forward.
Speaker Change: And while a Cisco has no royalty on Wassa Mac.
Speaker Change: It should be noted that we received a 40 cent per ton royalty.
Speaker Change: Milling royalty as well as if March when Marvin does come into.
Speaker Change: The the Canadian Mill Arctic milling complex.
Speaker Change: Now quickly revisiting Mentos blancos on slide 12, and more specifically as it relates to our 2025 outlook.
Speaker Change: As previously noted we remain convinced that capstone is now put the throughput bottlenecks behind them.
Speaker Change: As further evidenced by the information they were released last night after market close.
Speaker Change: However, why the however, while the through plant throughput challenges of seemingly means solved.
Silver grades are not expected to pick up until the second half of 2025.
Speaker Change: And this provides a good segue as we move into the next slide.
Speaker Change: On slide 13, where we've outlined both the company's 2025 G O delivery guidance as well as the updated five year growth outlook to 2029.
Speaker Change: Starting with 2025.
Speaker Change: Cisco expects geos earned to range between 80 to 88000 in 2025, and an average cash margin of approximately 97%.
Speaker Change: The 2025 guidance assumes cap stones Mentos Blancos mine will continue to operate at its phase one nameplate throughput capacity of 20000 tonnes per day.
Speaker Change: As well as the commencement of meaningful payments associated with the Geos earned from the <unk> mine in the second half of 2025.
Speaker Change: In addition, the guidance assumes a full year of Geos earned from the copper stream from Mac copper CSA mine.
Speaker Change: And the MSR royalty at G mining T Z mine.
Speaker Change: And while we are extremely excited to have the CSA copper stream a growing material contributor to our overall G on delivery mix.
Speaker Change: Our new 2025 guidance reflects the current consensus copper gold ratio.
Speaker Change: Which is obviously tilted in gold's favour as of late.
Speaker Change: This is Mike technically impact Geo guidance, but clearly we're not complaining about our nearly 3000 dollar per ounce gold price as it relates to our growing cash flows given we're still about 94% exposed to precious metals.
Speaker Change: While we previously had previously had expected to see a larger step change in 2025 over 2024.
Speaker Change: We have provided what we think is a realistic range based on our very recently updated understanding on the following.
Speaker Change: A the mine sequencing at both Agnico as Canadian Mill, Arctic complex and the AK deposit at Macassar.
Speaker Change: B the silver grade sequencing at cap stones, Mentos Blancos mine over the course of the year.
Speaker Change: And see slower than previously anticipated ramp ups from some of our newer production assets.
Speaker Change: After considering these more asset specific profiles our expectation.
Speaker Change: Is that the G. O is delivered to a Cisco in 2025 will be back half weighted likely close to a 45 55 split.
Speaker Change: Switching to the updated five year outlook to 2029.
Speaker Change: It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone to see this range lower than our last year's 2028 outlook.
Speaker Change: Due in large part to the absence of the Eagle mine.
Speaker Change: In other words Eagle is not included in our 2029 outlook.
Speaker Change: Cisco had been previously expecting approximately 10000 geos earned from Eagle for that future year.
Speaker Change: Eagle has now been partially offset by the addition of Gallagher NGO where first production could come as early as late 2026.
Speaker Change: In terms of new development assets expected to contribute about half of this overall growth we are only officially including Gallagher Ranga windfall Hermosa and Meramec within these estimates.
Speaker Change: With the balance of the growth to be fueled by the expansions and production profiles from some of our other key operating partners.
Speaker Change: In addition, we've included the Mentos Blancos phase two expansion and our Optionality bar, but we will have a better idea on the timeline there in the fourth quarter of this year.
Speaker Change: At which point Capstone is expected to release, an updated technical report for Mentos, including the feasibility study work around the planned phase two expansion to 27000 to 30000 ton per day plant throughput.
Well once again reiterate as I, often do that all of the growth you see here out to 2029 is completely bought and paid for.
Speaker Change: In other words, there is absolutely zero contingent capital associated with the Cisco realizing as Geo delivery growth.
Speaker Change: Over the next five years.
Speaker Change: Finally, touching briefly again on Eagle.
Speaker Change: Progress under the direction of the internal review board their receiver and the territorial government continues to move forward.
Speaker Change: But slowly slower than previously expected.
Speaker Change: Based on what we understand today the internal review board is scheduled to provide its final report on the root cause analysis to key stakeholders, including the receiver by no later than June 15th of this year.
Speaker Change: Underpinning this updated growth profile.
Speaker Change: List of near term catalysts from our key assets that we've provided on slide 14.
Speaker Change: And with additional catalysts provided in this presentations appendix.
Speaker Change: We've already highlighted what we can expect from agnico Alamos and capstone.
Speaker Change: But as many of you know exciting details continue to emerge in terms of future growth and expansions at our other key assets <unk>.
Speaker Change: Including Mac copper CSA.
Speaker Change: On the newer assets slide of things I would flag that expectations have been set by our new partner Spartan resources to have a feasibility study completed on the <unk>.
Speaker Change: But project by mid 2025.
Speaker Change: Which we think will be followed quickly by a final investment decision. Given this brownfield project is now fully permitted and also largely funded.
Speaker Change: Finally, we will end the formal part of the presentation on slide 12, which outlines the current state of our Cisco is balance sheet.
Speaker Change: Sorry, we're on slide 15, correct.
Speaker Change: They're all in U S dollars, our new presentation currency.
Speaker Change: As of this quarter.
Speaker Change: At quarter end, we had total debt of just under U S $94 million and net debt of only $35 million as.
Speaker Change: As we stated stated previously the covenant performance is exceptionally strong with our 96% cash margins experienced in 2024 and expected to continue throughout the year.
Speaker Change: Two our royalty heavy portfolio of producing assets.
Speaker Change: Our much improved balance sheet is one of the key achievements. We are proud of in 2020 for especially in light of the U S 300 million of new transactions closed or committed to over the same time period.
Speaker Change: As I mentioned in the past despite our impressive organic growth profile.
Speaker Change: Cisco doesn't expect to sit on its hands in 2025 or.
Speaker Change: Our financial position provides the company with the capacity and flexibility to continue its strategy of disciplined allocation and the pursuit of high quality accretive precious metal streams and royalties that will bolster bolster the company's current and near term geo deliveries and cash flow that should accrue.
Speaker Change: Our shareholders benefit.
Speaker Change: And with that I'd like to thank everyone for listening today, we'll now open up the line for questions as well as questions posted on the webcast if.
Speaker Change: If we don't get to all the questions on the line, we'll make sure to respond offline to those that we don't cover during this webcast.
Speaker Change: Joelle operator.
Speaker Change: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session should you have a question. Please press star followed by the one on your Touchtone phone.
Speaker Change: You'll hear a prompt that your hand has been raised Jewish did decline from the polling process. Please press star followed by the Q. If you are using a speaker phone. Please lift the handset before pressing any keys.
Speaker Change: And your first question comes from Kenya to Costco neck with Scotiabank. Your line is now open.
Speaker Change: Great. Good morning, I think that's me.
Speaker Change: Good morning.
Speaker Change: I just wanted to circle back on the.
Speaker Change: The outline for 2025 and you did mention the 45 55 bad Jason for that production profile does that mean that Q1 and Q2 are relatively equal again, I know pricing changes on what we know today as Q1, Q1, and Q2 equal and then we see that stronger.
Speaker Change: Q4, and we have a bigger bump in Q3, I'm just trying to understand the ear.
Speaker Change: Yeah look very good question. Thank you Tony Tonya and as you can appreciate we don't give quarter to quarter guidance. However, what we can say is certainly as we said in my remarks Q2 does pick up the one of the bigger drivers with our winter or obviously, our core asset being Canadian mill Arctic.
Speaker Change: And they've disclosed this will have a weaker than anticipated what we anticipated Q1. So you can think Q1 will be the weakest quarter over over the 2025 with obviously some improvement going into Q2, representing again about 45% of the Geos delivered and then the back half Q.
Speaker Change: Q3 Q4.
Speaker Change: With Q4, having the.
Speaker Change: Effectively Q3, Q4, having the stronger quarters, and making up that 55% of the Geos delivered over the course of 2025 I hope that provides a little bit more clarity.
Speaker Change: Yeah, No I was just looking at some of the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Amp up that you had mentioned definitely Canadian like it made sense and then yes, indeed, the royalty us Nadine its contribution would be the other one coming in in the second half though.
Speaker Change: I think we got all of the ones are in line with that profile.
Speaker Change: Second question I have has to do on your capital allocation. So second question on the business itself that they transaction opportunities and then the third is on the dividend and share buyback. So just on my second question, which is the.
Speaker Change: Our investment in the business I just wanted to ask again, what are the opportunities that you yourself as being out there.
Speaker Change: Size wise and sort of your focus on production versus development.
Speaker Change: And then I'm interested in the bigger opportunities that are out there how big could you go and would you be interested in syndication.
Speaker Change: Of any transaction.
Speaker Change: It started there.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: There's a lot to unpack there. Thank you Tanya for that question, maybe I'll start firstly with the last question around syndication obviously in 2024 as everyone knows we did do a syndicated deal with Franco So I think that answers. The question that we're certainly open to students syndicated deals we think it makes a lot of sense in certain circumstances.
Speaker Change: And obviously the deal that we did with cascabel. There was a unique set of circumstances that benefited both ourselves and Franco So certainly are open to <unk>.
Speaker Change: Syndicated deals and that also feeds well or relates to your question on sizing because clearly if we did do syndicated deals being a Cisco again, an intermediate gold and royalty or streaming we can certainly punch well above our weight and look at transactions around the $1 billion billion dollar plus again, if we did some smart.
Speaker Change: Patients.
Speaker Change: Again that flows into the opportunity set so the opportunity set currently I would say is very robust.
Speaker Change: Where are our team is certainly got a lot of files that we're working through I wouldn't say, though and caution you the analysts and investors I wouldn't say, it's as Fernando as it was mid 2024, we're certainly seeing.
Speaker Change: Some opportunities specifically in the copper space, either being paused and or groups just doing more studies and as you can appreciate these big expansions and or acquisitions or development builds with base metal copper assets in particular are multi multibillion dollar commitments and again as.
Speaker Change: You know, obviously gold has significantly outperformed copper over over the past at least six seven months. So we're starting to see some trepidation, let's just say by various boards and others of of a fully endorsing projects that are $1 billion few year span.
Speaker Change: And for which again, we being a Cisco we're looking at doing obviously capital providing financing on streams of of precious metals, specifically silver <unk> gold.
Speaker Change: Moving to the capital allocation question.
Speaker Change: And first and foremost as you know our business is too.
Speaker Change: Acquire very good high quality assets in very good jurisdictions with the strong technical acumen partners that that is our core business as I said our pipeline is robust. So we continue to look at opportunities, but we will be disciplined we do have to obviously make a return.
Speaker Change: For our shareholders, we're cognizant about our hurdle rates, we will be disciplined as we deploy that capital, but that really is the main focus of the company. We do as you know pay a dividend and.
Speaker Change: Again, it wouldn't be.
Speaker Change: Again rule of thumb as as you know.
Speaker Change: Historically, we paid out anywhere between 20% to 30% 20, 25% of our operating cash flow and a dividend. If you just take what we've presented in terms of our 2025 Geo profile you impute, what the existing commodity prices are I think it's fair to say come may when we.
Speaker Change: Actually take it to our board there should be again, all things being equal and commodity prices being where they are out there there should be a recommendation by this management team to our board to increase our dividend.
Speaker Change: And we'd like to keep that cadence up a once per year evaluating the business and if appropriate we would increase our dividend to our shareholders. Given the fact that our yield where we obviously follow that our dividend yield somewhere around 1% or just under 1%.
Speaker Change: Again, there was a lot to unpack there tenure.
Speaker Change: Don't know if you had other questions.
Speaker Change: Yeah I did have some follow ups just on the transaction I didn't quite.
Speaker Change: What size.
Speaker Change: Range, you are seeing and are the opportunities that you are seeing either in that development. It seems rather than already in production and I will be looking for opportunities in 2030 and beyond I'm, just trying to understand how far out these opportunities.
Speaker Change: <unk> perspective.
Speaker Change: So our focus is not 2030 and beyond we obviously have a responsibility to look at anything that does come in that's of quality. So I will caveat that in terms of our sweet spot again, given how we think about our balance sheet and Fred or CFO of things about our balance sheet. We're very comfortable this is the U S.
Speaker Change: Dollars of doing transactions between 50 and $500 million. The majority of the pipeline that we're looking at fits well within that 50 to 500 million I would say on a weighted basis Theres more 50 million dollar transactions and 500 is as I think you can appreciate that they are rare, but we certainly.
Speaker Change: A few opportunities in that 500 million and even slightly above that.
Speaker Change: But that's really where our sweet spot as tenure and we're seeing plenty of flow that we think again as I have stated if we can get one or two of those transactions across the line in 2025 will be very happy because we think that will all accrue to shareholders benefit.
Speaker Change: So if we're looking at a shorter timeframe I would assume that you would be looking at probably more advanced project in the development phase to be and as you know.
Speaker Change: Time frame up beyond 2030.
Speaker Change: That's why our criteria yeah. Our main criteria is is either cash flowing assets are assets that will have an impact within our five year outlook, so receiving G O us cash flow.
Speaker Change: Consideration prior to the end of again, what we put out our five year outlook to 2029.
Speaker Change: And there's always exceptions to those but that's that's really what our focus is.
Speaker Change: And then my last question just circling back to shareholder returns, we didn't touch on any share buybacks, how do you rank your share buyback versus dividend.
Speaker Change: In terms of returning capital.
Speaker Change: Yeah. So the way we look at share buybacks as is certainly a tool.
Speaker Change: I mean, we did do some share buybacks as you recall in 2020 for a whopping 26000 shares I mean, it wasn't much we know that but that was directly after again, we had the disappointment with respect to Eagle.
Speaker Change: And we believed as a management team that some from an internal N a V or a internal value perspective, there was good value for us to go and buyback shares.
Speaker Change: And you can see in our disclosure that was slightly below $23 Canadian for which we bought back.
Speaker Change: It was only 26000, but we're obviously restricted to in terms of volume per day that we can believe we'd like we'd like to bought back a bit more than that but we'll be again disciplined when we think about buybacks as well if we believe that there's a dislocation in what we think fundamental value is versus what's obviously.
Speaker Change: In the capital markets, we will step in we can buy up to $9 9 million shares in the marketplace. So.
Speaker Change: Again, we will be active if if we see the opportunity and really be opportunistic about lowering our share count.
Speaker Change: Because as you know and we've talked about this before this team in particular is very focused on per share metrics. If we can get more exposure to work for our shareholders to assets on a per share basis like melodic like mentos like CSA that those are high quality accretive transactions for our shareholders.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you for taking my questions I'll pass it to somebody else. Thank you.
Speaker Change: A pleasure, it's they weren't Danielle thank you.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, should you have a question. Please press star one.
Adrian Day: Your next question comes from Adrian Day, with Adrian DSS asset management.
Adrian Day: Yes. Good morning, Thank you.
Speaker Change: You're obviously very you'll obviously very comfortable and like your copper exposure.
Adrian Day: I'm just wondering is sort of hypothetical question.
Adrian Day: If an opportunity came along to perhaps exchange your copper assets for good quality gold assets.
Adrian Day: That'd be something you'd be willing to do.
Adrian Day: Oh look it's an interesting question Adrian. Thank you. Thank you for your question I think again, we're an organization that's open.
Adrian Day: I think we've evidenced in 2024 before that were quite creative on and ensuring that we're open to transactions and structures that are accretive to shareholder value. We we as an organization. We are that'd be very clear and I have been clear with yourself that we are a precious metal vehicle will continue to be a precious metal vehicle.
Adrian Day: However, we do like certain base metal commodities, we do have a positive constructive view on copper.
Adrian Day: If there's opportunities on our high quality asset that we can pick up some more copper like what we've done with CSA, we certainly will do that but to answer directly. Your question. If we see value and there's a good arbitrage of swapping copper out for precious it all comes down to whether or not that's going to be accretive to shareholders.
Adrian Day: Yes is the answer.
Adrian Day: It would be a specific set of circumstances I don't think it's the easiest kind of transaction to facilitate for a whole host of reasons that you would know, but we certainly would be open to it because again the main thesis and thrust that we put out at from from an investment perspective is that we are a precious metals vehicle.
Speaker Change: Okay. Okay now that's helpful. Thank you.
Speaker Change: There are no further questions at this time I will now turn the call over to Mandan management for closing remarks.
Speaker Change: Thank you Joelle and thanks for your attention. This morning, we know that all of you are in the midst of a very busy earnings season. So I appreciate you calling in.
Speaker Change: If for whatever reason your question wasn't answered today or you are looking for more information about our business. Please don't hesitate to reach out to grant or any of the other executives as we are very happy to engage and provide further information.
Speaker Change: In closing, we believe we have laid out the parameters for a very successful 2025 for our shareholders and look further to providing further updates as we progress through our fiscal year 2025. Thank you very much for your attention today.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today, we thank you for participating and ask that you. Please disconnect your lines.
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