Q4 2024 WSFS Financial Corp Earnings Call
Thank you for standing by. My name is Janine and I will be your conference operator for today. At this time I would like to welcome everyone to the WSFS Financial Corporation fourth quarter earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After today's presentation there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question you may press star followed by the number one on your touchstone phone. Should we draw your question?
Please press star followed by the number one again. I'd now like to turn the call over to David Burg, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
David Burg: All right. Thank you, Janine, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our fourth quarter 2024 earnings call.
David Burg: Our earnings release and earnings release supplement, which we will refer to on today's call, can be found in the investor relations section of our website.
Speaker Change: With me on this call are Roger Levenson, Chairman, President and CEO, and Arthur Bacci, Chief Operating Officer.
David Burg: Prior to reviewing our financial results, I would like to read our Safe Harbor State.
David Burg: Our discussion today will include information about management's view of our future expectations, plans and prospects that constitute forward-looking statements.
David Burg: Actual results may differ materially from historical results or those indicated by these forward-looking statements.
David Burg: Due to risks and uncertainties including, but not limited to, the risk factors included in our annual report on Form 10-K and our most recent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, as well as other documents we periodically file with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
David Burg: All comments made during today's call are subject to the Safe Harbor Statement.
I will now turn to our financial results.
David Burg: Our businesses continue to perform very well in the quarter, providing us with strong momentum moving into 2025.
David Burg: 4Q results included a core earnings per share of $1.11, core return on assets of 1.24%, and core return on tangible common equity of 16.55%.
David Burg: These results cap the successful 2024 with full-year core earnings per share of $4.39, core return on assets of 1.26%, and core return on tangible common equity of 17.83%.
David Burg: Our results for the quarter included the termination of a relationship with a long-standing cash-granted client as a result of adverse events in the client's overall business portfolio.
David Burg: This termination resulted in a negative $4.7 million pre-tax impact to our financials.
David Burg: with a 2.8 million impact to core fee revenue and a 1.9 million impact to core non-interest expense.
David Burg: This event is an isolated incident that does not have a broader bearing on the Cash Connect business.
David Burg: The team acted proactively to protect our interests, and we will be working to recover this loss.
through insurance and other avenues where appropriate.
David Burg: Despite the Cash Connect event, WISFIS delivered year-over-year core fee revenue growth of 7% in 4Q, powered by the Wealth and Trust business which delivered a record fee quarter of $40 million on double-digit growth.
David Burg: For the full year 2024, the company achieved core fee growth of 19% relative to the prior year.
Core Net Interest Margin was 3.80 for the quarter.
David Burg: up two basis points one quarter despite the interest rate cuts that we experienced in 4Q 2024. We actively managed our deposit repricing and achieved an interest-bearing deposit beta of 26% for the quarter with an exit beta as of the end of December of 35%.
David Burg: Customer deposits grew 4% link quarter driven by broad-based growth across the wealth and trust consumer and commercial business lines.
David Burg: Non-interest bearing deposits grew 6% in Q1 and comprised 31% of average deposits in Q4.
David Burg: Loans declined 1% in Q1, driven by higher seasonal payoffs and business sales.
David Burg: On a year-over-year basis, loans grew 3% with mid-single-digit growth in C&I and commercial mortgage.
David Burg: We continue to have a strong originations pipeline while our business sales present important opportunities for our wealth business to expand client relationships.
David Burg: A total net credit cost of $8.7 million decreased by $11.4 million from the prior quarter.
David Burg: This decrease reflects improvements in early-stage metrics of problem assets and delinquencies, as well as lower net charge-offs.
David Burg: Excluding our upstart portfolio which is a runoff, we recorded net charge-offs of 20 basis points for the quarter and 27 basis points for the year.
David Burg: Our ACL coverage at the end of the year remains at 1.48%.
David Burg: On the last page of the supplement, we provided our outlook for 2025, which assumes one 25-basis point rate cut in June.
David Burg: Overall, we expect to deliver another year of high performance and growth with a full year core return on assets of approximately 1.25%.
David Burg: We expect mid-single-digit loan growth in our commercial portfolio and flat growth in our consumer portfolio.
David Burg: Our consumer portfolio will be impacted by the runoff of our Upstart and SpringEQ partnership portfolios, which will be offset by WISPIS-originated loan growth.
David Burg: We expect continued broad-based deposit growth across our businesses in 2025, building on our recent momentum.
David Burg: Our outlook is for deposit growth in the low single digits from our very strong levels in 4Q.
David Burg: Our outlook for net interest margin is approximately 3.80 for the year.
David Burg: consistent with the level in 4Q and this incorporates an additional interest rate cut in June.
David Burg: We will continue to focus on deposit repricing opportunities and expect to finish the year with an interest-bearing deposit beta of approximately 40 percent.
David Burg: We expect our wealth and trust business to grow double digits as we capitalize on talent additions and technology investments made in 2024.
David Burg: Our overall fuel revenue will grow mid-single digits as cash connect revenues are expected to decline as a result of the interest rate reductions.
As a reminder,
David Burg: This revenue decline is more than offset in Cash Connect's funding costs, resulting in a higher profit margin for the business in 2025.
David Burg: Net charge-offs are expected to be between 35 to 45 basis points of average loans for the year as the industry continues to see the normalization of credit. Our commercial portfolio continues to perform well, but losses may remain uneven in 2025.
David Burg: We expect net charge-ups associated with Upstart to continue to decline as the portfolio runs off.
David Burg: And lastly, we will continue to leverage opportunities to invest in the franchise while prudently managing our expense base.
David Burg: While we may have fluctuations in our efficiency ratio quarter to quarter, our outlook for the full year is for an efficiency ratio of 60%.
David Burg: We're excited about the future and remain very committed to delivering high performance.
David Burg: Thank you, and we will now open the line for questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. Should you have a question, can you press star followed by the number one on your touchtone phone and you will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised.
David Burg: Should you wish to withdraw, kindly press the star followed by the number 1. If you are using a speakerphone, please leave the handset before pressing any keys. One moment please for your first question.
Our first question comes from the line of
Hey, good afternoon, guys.
Hey Russell. Hey Russell.
David Burg: I wanted to start on the expense outlook, appreciate the efficiency guide for the year.
David Burg: Could you give some thought to us around how you're thinking about dollar expenses, how that 4Q...
Speaker Change: We kind of shake out as a run, right? I hear you lumpy quarter on quarter, but sort of what's embedded in the top line guide provided earlier and as a bit of a follow-up, just what type of margin of error are you assuming on the efficiency guide? I think for the past year we were maybe 90 bits above the plus or minus range.
Speaker Change: Yeah, thanks Russell. So let me talk about 4Q a little bit. And 4Q, as you alluded to, was a little bit of a noisy quarter. We obviously had the Cash Connect one-timer, the $1.9 million one-timer.
Also, when you look at a year-over-year basis,
Speaker Change: We had increases in cash connect related to interest rate increases which are offset and revenue So those are purely variable expenses that flow through the expense line related to rates that are offset and revenue
So if you normalize, you know, those two things out
Speaker Change: Our expenses for the year were up about about 15 percent.
Speaker Change: And the majority of that, a large part of that was in salaries and benefits. And the really two main drivers for that, I would say one.
Speaker Change: is at the end of the year in the fourth quarter we always
Speaker Change: When you look at our heads, you know, we added about 80 FTE year over year, about two-thirds of that went into three areas.
Speaker Change: wealth, commercial and technology. And these are the areas that we continue to invest in. And when you look at our fee growth, particularly on the wealth side, the double-digit growth that we're expecting this year and next year.
Speaker Change: I think those are, you know, that's a manifestation of the investments that we're making and and I think we were in a fortunate position to be
Speaker Change: the platform of choice for many people. And in fact, you know, there are two, two teams of advisors recently joined us from competitors just in the last few months. You know, it's evidence of this, and we continue to see a lot of interest.
Speaker Change: both on the commercial side and the wealth side of people joining our team. So that's a little bit of color on the quarter.
In terms of the guide, you know, I would say
Speaker Change: Obviously, you know, the efficiency ratio can move around a little bit quarter of a quarter.
Speaker Change: And with a goal of keeping efficiency, you know, generally flat, you know, you can, you know, you can, you can, that basically implies a revenue growth and expense growth. That's kind of parallel. So, so you can model it that way.
Speaker Change: But I would say that's, you know, that's our overall philosophy. We're going to continue to invest. We'll continue to be opportunistic. We think it's the right long-term trade-off and decision, but we are, you know, we're focused on managing the expenses appropriately.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so
Speaker Change: As you said, obviously, interest rates are going to impact the business, but important to remember that as interest rates have declined, that should be accretive to our profit margins.
Speaker Change: Even though you're going to see an impact on the top line and the fee line, that's more than offset on expenses.
Speaker Change: But beyond that we are focused on driving the profit margin of the business up
and that's a combination of growth
Speaker Change: It's a combination of its growth, it's optimizing our cash logistics, and making sure that we minimize
Speaker Change: non-interest earning cash. And the third one, an important one, is pricing.
Speaker Change: As we've consolidated market share following the USB client acquisitions that we've made, we do feel we have an opportunity for pricing leverage and that's something that we're going to deploy. So our goal is to definitely drive the profit margin up next year from where it is this year.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Got it. Okay, helpful. Thank you. And then just one last one for me, guys, in terms of how we should think about the overall size of the securities portfolio by the end of the year, if you're still kind of targeting roughly 20% of average assets, ultimately, and maybe when we might get there.
Speaker Change: Yeah, so on the securities portfolio, it's about 22% of assets right now. You're right, we're targeting somewhere around the 20 mark, maybe a little bit lower.
Speaker Change: The security portfolio is about $4.5 billion. It throws off about $500 million of cash per year.
Speaker Change: Most of that is going to be redeployed, you know, into growth in the business. But we may, you know, we will look to probably redeploy a little bit of that into the securities portfolio. So net-net, we do expect to come down, even though some of the, you know, we will add to our securities portfolio a little bit. But net-net, it will be down.
Okay, thanks very much for taking my questions.
Thank you. Thanks, Russell.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Frank Chivaldi from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.
I'm just wondering on
You know, they look at, we're thinking about capital.
Speaker Change: your current capital levels on a regulatory basis. Any color on where those could trend to in either the short-term or the medium-term? Obviously, you've been buying back stock and you have more firepower there, but also just thinking about other potential uses of capital and your interest level in additional M&A at this point. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Yeah, maybe I'll start off on the on the capital and I'll turn it over to Roger to talk about M&A. But, Frank, on the capital side, so we have a philosophy, you know, as you know, that we return about 35% of our net income every year and that's about 15% in terms of dividend and the rest in terms of buyback.
Speaker Change: When you look at last year, we actually did about 50%.
Speaker Change: which was about 35% of that in buyback and about 50% in dividends.
Speaker Change: and the way we look at that is we look at the opportunities that we have to deploy cash, deploy capital, excuse me, in the business versus where we're trading and the ability to buy back stock and we kind of always balance that equation and we take a hard look at that and we're constantly thinking through that balance.
Speaker Change: So I think next year, just as we did more this year, I think we will expect to do that again next year and it's an equation that we're continuously looking at and revisiting.
Speaker Change: And I would say the other point I would make is that over the last couple of years we held a little bit more capital
because of volatility in macro environment, credit, interest rates.
Speaker Change: And so we still think it's proving to hold a little bit more now, but again, we're definitely taking a hard look at buybacks and we continue to be disciplined, but it's something we're focused on continuing to make sure that we're carefully managed that and return as much as we can.
Speaker Change: Frank, it's Roger. I would just add, as it relates to our appetite for M&A, we just completed our next strategic plan, 25-26-27 strategic plan.
Speaker Change: and the focus is really continuing to optimize this very unique market position that we have.
Speaker Change: across all of our businesses and to really optimize, you know, that investment.
I will say that
Arthur Bacci: Arthur Bacci, the founder and CEO of Argor Levenson, David Burg, Arthur Bacci, Arthur Bacci, Arthur Bacci, the founder and CEO of Argor Levenson, David Burg, Arthur Bacci,
Arthur Bacci: in the Ordinary Course of Business. So we're open to looking at that, but we feel very confident that we can continue to achieve the kind of results that we have provided and what we've outlined in the outlook.
Arthur Bacci: without having to do anything, you know, of any significant magnitude, but always open to, you know, opportunities that would strengthen the franchise.
Speaker Change: Okay, great. And then just a couple of quick ones on sort of modeling, more modeling related.
Speaker Change: The really strong deposit growth in the quarter. I know sometimes you can have some some customer inflows that large customer inflows that are more temporary in nature.
Speaker Change: Anything that you see coming back out in terms of just sizing it in terms of coming out in one cue or is this a pretty good, you know, run rate all else considered?
Speaker Change: Yeah, Frank, I think I think you're right. I think we will have a little bit of that, you know when we look at
Speaker Change: Like you said, I think we have very strong growth in the quarter.
Speaker Change: quarter over quarter, but also year over year, importantly. So even when you normalize for that seasonality,
But, for example, if you look at last year...
Speaker Change: and the growth that we had. We also had a strong fourth quarter last year. Probably about half of that came out in the first quarter and then we built on that.
Speaker Change: But so I think, you know, we would expect kind of a similar pattern this year. And that's why maybe you see the low single digit growth in deposits off of that high point in 4Q. But but I think importantly, you know, when you look at our balances on average.
Speaker Change: year over year, which kind of normalizes out for some of these things. You know, we're still up 6% overall on average year over year. And I would say even more importantly, we're up 7% when you look at the non-interest bearing deposits.
Speaker Change: And the non-interest bearing deposit growth was really across all businesses, across consumer, across commercial, and across wealth and trust. You know, and that's really, I would say, reflects the kind of the core fee relationships, the core fee operating business that we do with our clients.
Speaker Change: So I think, you know, I think the deposit story is a very strong one. Yes, there's seasonality there, but I think any way you look at it, quarter over quarter, year over year, I think net-net, you know, we have solid growth.
Speaker Change: Okay. No, that's great. And then just quickly, lastly, I think when you guys talk about the Cash Connect business, this one partnership that was terminated, I think the numbers you're giving are
Speaker Change: one-time nature, one-time impacts. Is there, just trying to size it, am I missing, is there a number you can provide? Is it not meaningful in terms of the quarterly impact from just the lack of this customer, you know, being a partner anymore?
Speaker Change: Yeah, yeah, I would say, Frank, there are a few moving pieces there.
Speaker Change: when you think about Cash Connect for 2025. One is this client, two is the interest rate impact, and three are the levers that I previously discussed around pricing optimization and growth in the business.
Speaker Change: And so when you when you net all of those things, you know, we expect the top line revenue to be down somewhat, but that's more than offset and expenses. And so when you net all of those things.
Speaker Change: including the absence of this client, we still expect our profit margin to increase from the mid single digits to kind of the high single digits next year. So that's really how we look at the business and that's how we're driving the business.
Speaker Change: Okay, just in terms of the specific fee from the absence of this one customer is just something you guys aren't disclosing or is it just not meaningful or both? Yeah, can't really, don't want to get too much into specific client revenue, but again, I think I would focus on the bottom line, the profit margin and, you know, run rating this quarter a little bit.
Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Kelly Mota from KBW. Please go ahead.
Kelly Mota: Hi, thanks for the question. Um, maybe just a one more quick question on on this cash connect business
Speaker Change: Just from a high level, it sounds like what happened with this client is somewhat idiosyncratic. What are the risks of this business? Is it mostly just mismanagement or potential?
and Andrew Straits. Maybe I'll start with that.
Speaker Change: Yeah, so just to circle back to the particular situation, Colleen, as it's outlined in the materials, the business owner had financial stress in related enterprises.
Speaker Change: That we felt elevated the risk profile of our relationship and that's what led to the termination You know of that relationship
Speaker Change: More broadly, I think the risk, as you think about the business here, is we're managing and keeping track of a large amount of cash throughout the system.
Speaker Change: and I would say as a general statement, all of those controls worked in this particular situation to our satisfaction.
Speaker Change: There are some loose ends that we're still working on as are reflected in those charges and we have some avenues to pursue on that, but that's the biggest risk in this business and I would say as a general statement, I think the way we mitigate those risks and manage them were demonstrated very well in the ultimate outcome of that situation.
Thank you. Bye.
Speaker Change: Got it. That's that's really helpful. And I appreciate all the color on kind of the investments you've made and talent you've brought on and kind of how you're managing expenses.
Speaker Change: commensurate with revenue growth. Just wondering, as we look ahead, how much
Speaker Change: When you're managing your expenses, are there still rooms for additional efficiencies? And that would be, you know, perhaps if revenues came in in light or more challenged be the areas in which you could...
Speaker Change: potentially get greater savings? Or, you know, would the plug here mostly be, you know, a toggle in your recruiting effort?
Speaker Change: I would say, Kelly, you know, it's a combination. I think, for example, you know, again, one of the things that drove our expenses this time was
Speaker Change: We're in the fourth quarter. Typically, it's a true up in our incentive accrual, which is very numeric and really relates to the company performance. So that's something that is clearly variable and something that is directly related to where our ways are and where the company performance is.
Speaker Change: The second thing is that as we've made investments in headcount, particularly when we talk about
Speaker Change: And I would say the third thing is, you know, we have made, you know, we had some major technology investments this year, including upgrading our trust accounting system, which was one of the final kind of integration pieces from our acquisitions.
Speaker Change: And so, you know, that drove, when you look at the full year, that was really more of a third quarter, but when you look at the full year, that also, you know, is the lever. So, you know, I do think we have levers, and, you know, it's something, again, that we manage, you know, we take a very hard look at.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Kelly, it's right, just to give a little bit of historical context.
Speaker Change: and feed businesses, which carry a little bit higher expense load to them.
Speaker Change: So, that's why we talk about the efficiency ratio, you know, being around that 60%. That is our long-term goal.
Speaker Change: Obviously, we always look at opportunities to become, you know, more efficient. You saw this quarter, you know, we moved some real estate to help for sale. We're taking advantage, hopefully, of some opportunities in the marketplace, you know, to address, you know, some potential expense savings there. So we're looking at it that way. But
Speaker Change: Understood. That's super helpful context. Maybe last question from me. I think this is the second quarter where you had an uptick in MPAs. This quarter I believe the presentation calls out a land multi-family construction.
Speaker Change: Can you can you provide us some color on the migration that occurred this quarter and your process of work out of some of these larger migrations over the past back half of last year?
Speaker Change: Yeah, so I would say that really it was really only one credit of any size that moved to MPA and it was that relationship. So two loans right around 20 million dollars each.
Speaker Change: to a large sponsor that has run into some challenges in his global cash flow. You know, we feel, as David said, we're very well secured and we're working through that. Similarly, I would say the other situations that we've had that migrated over the course of last year into NPA, I think we continue to work on those in a very constructive way. As we've talked about with our borrowers, we hope to see some resolution in the near future.
Speaker Change: and you know obviously all that was incorporated into you know where they where we've landed on the ACL going forward.
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Speaker Change: Kelly, I would just add that, you know, a vast majority of our loans are with recourse as well. So, you know, we have, you know, we actively manage that, we have different tools. And so, you know, that's why you don't necessarily have the MPAs that turn into losses.
Awesome, thank you so much.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Again, should you have a question, can you press star followed by the number 1?
Speaker Change: Our last question comes from the line of Manuel Nevis from DA Davidson. Please go ahead.
Hey, good afternoon.
Amen.
Speaker Change: Could you go into a little bit more detail on the loan growth outlook and the mix for it, discuss pipelines and kind of what keeps consumers flat, what parts are going to make up for the upstart runoff?
Speaker Change: Let's start with that. Sure, sure, sure. So yeah, so I think when you look at the long growth outlook, you really, as you alluded to, you have to break it down between the consumer and the commercial businesses.
Speaker Change: When you look at a consumer, you know, we have two partnership portfolios.
Speaker Change: that will be running off. One is Upstart, which right now is about $140 million as of the end of the year. It runs off about $25 million a quarter. So really, by the end of the year, this portfolio will be, you know, kind of negligible by the end of this year.
Speaker Change: The other one, a portfolio is a billion dollars, and that portfolio runs off the Spring EQ portfolio.
Speaker Change: In that portfolio, the runoff is a little bit subject to interest rates.
Speaker Change: with prepayments, but generally, it runs off about 10 to 15 million per month. So this quarter, I think we had about 44 million was the runoff in that portfolio.
Speaker Change: So those those are kind of the decliners the offsetting that we are We're definitely focused and have had success in growing our whispers originated loans
Speaker Change: And those are a combination of residential mortgage loans, which had nice growth this quarter, as well as other consumer portfolios that we have. And they're primarily kind of HELOC portfolios that, again, that we had nice growth this quarter. So I think the combination of
Speaker Change: doing more on the mortgage side, which we feel we can do, as well as some of our real estate, some of our other smaller portfolios, I think, you know, largely is going to offset this growth to keep consumer flat.
Speaker Change: So that's, you know, that's kind of the consumer story. On the commercial story, we had, if you look at our, we have.
Speaker Change: Larger payoffs this quarter due to seasonality, which always happens in the fourth quarter, but I think particularly this quarter We had some business sales, you know, which accounted for about 25% of the payoffs
Speaker Change: It's still solid and we feel good about it. We feel good about the momentum. And so I think commercial is gonna continue to deliver mid single digit growth. So when you put all of that together, you get to kind of maybe a three and a half, 4% growth between the two.
Speaker Change: I appreciate that color. Does the residency mortgage origination or the HELOC origination, does that add households? Is it like kind of deeper relationships with folks you already have on the wealth management side? That was part of the thought process with Upstart and SpringQ is that you could add households. And I'm just wondering if you're finding new ways to do that.
Any color on some of that would be helpful.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I think the residential mortgage, you know, it's a combination. I think it's a it's a business that we have capability and that we originate ourselves.
Speaker Change: We think that there's, you know, and, and, you know, we obviously try to lend from a relationship perspective. So,
Speaker Change: That can be an input influx of new clients that then we try to you know expand into into deposit accounts
Speaker Change: but also is an important source of cross-sell from a wealth business as well, you know, both ways. So I think that is an entry point for new clients, as well as also an area where we can expand relationships for clients that come in through other channels like wealth.
Speaker Change: Manuel, I'd also remind you, this is Art, we have originated both mortgage loans for clients or prospects as well as non-clients, and we have the flexibility for the non-client relationships to be able to sell those loans into the secondary market and book a gain. So it's a combination of both.
Speaker Change: I appreciate that. With that kind of blended overall loan growth rate of three and a half or 4%, a lot of that's covered with.
Speaker Change: Security Cash Flows. That could potentially leave you with a lot more capital build. You talked about having a similar level of buyback activity to last year. Could it meaningfully increase?
Speaker Change: Yeah, I think, Manuel, we kind of touched on this, you know, before. Yes, we can fund the loan growth with the securities. That may, there may be some excess, and we're certainly generating capital, and that will all be included in, you know, our ongoing analysis of, you know, the capital return philosophy that we've talked about a fair bit.
Speaker Change: Yeah, well, I would add that, you know, one of the things that.
Speaker Change: I mean, this particular quarter, in the beginning of the quarter, we paid off our BTFB facility. We basically paid it off in cash, you know, driven by the liquidity generation that we had in the business.
Speaker Change: You know, so that's also been accretive to our net interest margin So so I think you know, I think we look at kind of all of those levers and opportunities to deploy liquidity And and as Roger said, you know, we'll continue to it to evaluate buybacks for sure
Speaker Change: Is there any other further takeaways on the strategic plan, the new three-year plan just kind of obviously comes across with the near-term outlook for this year. But is there anything else you can discuss on kind of what the focus is on that three-year strategic plan?
Speaker Change: I think, you know, first of all, the plan is consistent with the process that we've gone through before. It's every three years, it's a combination of management working with the board.
Speaker Change: And I would tell you that it's very consistent with what you've been hearing us talk about. It's to continue to optimize the prior investments that we've made in the franchise and continue to lean into those areas across all of our business lines.
Speaker Change: opportunities for growth to take market share for us to get more of a share a wallet with our customers and to continue to grow through some of the investments that we've made.
I appreciate the commentary. Thank you.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and with no further questions in queue, I would now like to turn the conference back over to Ms. Edmonds.
Ms. Edmonds: Okay. Thank you, everyone, for joining today's call. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to reach out to Andrew or me. Roger, Art, and I will be attending conferences and investor meetings throughout the quarter, and we look forward to meeting with many of you. Have a great day.
Thank you.
Ms. Edmonds: That concludes our conference call for today. You may now disconnect.