Q4 2024 Pan American Silver Corp Earnings Call
Speaker Change: Thank you for standing by. This is the conference operator. Welcome to the Pan America Silver fourth quarter and year-end 2024 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode and the conference is being recorded.
Speaker Change: We're very pleased with the company's performance over the past year.
Speaker Change: Revenue was a record $851 million in Q4, and $2 $8 billion in 2024, reflecting the contribution of a full year of production from the acquired Yamana mines and strong about surprises.
Speaker Change: The chiefs our production guidance for 2020 for silver production totaled $21 1 million ounces and gold production was a company record of 892000 ounces.
Speaker Change: All in sustaining costs for silver segment, excluding inventory adjustments or $18.98 per ounce in 2024 slightly above the guidance.
Speaker Change: Segment, all in sustaining costs, excluding inventory adjustments in 2024 or $1501 per ounce.
Speaker Change: We're within the guidance.
Speaker Change: In 2024, we completed several major projects, notably the new ventilation infrastructure at La Colorado.
Speaker Change: We are now seeing the benefits in terms of higher throughput at laclede either.
Speaker Change: Achieving our target 2000 tons at the end of last year and lower per ounce operating costs.
Speaker Change: We finished construction of the new filtration plant and filter stock tailings storage facility I thought on enterprise backfill plant at Timmins.
Speaker Change: These investments have set those assets up well for the future while today, our operations are generating record cash flows.
Speaker Change: Cash flow generated from operations was a record $274.1 billion in Q4, and also a record of $724 $1 million for the full year, reflecting strong margins.
Speaker Change: We also achieved record free cash flow of $196 2 million in Q4 or $445 $1 million for the full year.
Speaker Change: We recorded net earnings of $178 million or <unk> 30 per share in Q4.
Speaker Change: <unk> net earnings were $112.7 million or <unk> 31 cents per share in 2024.
Speaker Change: Net earnings in Q4 reflect the gain from the sale of a lot of end up being almost entirely offset by adjustments at Dolores.
Speaker Change: The closer and decommissioning liability and to the net realizable value of the inventory.
Speaker Change: The adjustments at Dolores reflect the completion of mining and to transition to the residual leaching face and active reclamation.
Speaker Change: Based on our most recent estimates for residual heap leaching into post mining phase, we expect economic production to continue.
Speaker Change: Decreasing rates through mid to late 2026.
Speaker Change: The gain from the lot of NSA and the adjustments at Dolores were adjusted from earnings. This resulted in adjusted earnings of $126 $9 million 35 per share in Q4.
Speaker Change: Full year adjusted earnings were $286 $7 million or <unk> 79 per share.
Speaker Change: But American is entering 2025, and a strong financial position.
Speaker Change: We are now in a net cash position with $887 million cash and short term investments against roughly $800 million of debt largely related to the two long term bonds, we acquired with the amount of transactions.
Speaker Change: Our credit facility remains undrawn, giving us $1 $6 billion of total available liquidity.
Speaker Change: This is a great position to be able to pursue our growth objectives, while returning capital to shareholders.
Speaker Change: Yesterday, we announced a 10% dividend with respect to Q4 and.
Speaker Change: In the first quarter of 2025, we also repurchased approximately $20 million of roughly 900000 shares under the share buyback plan.
Speaker Change: That brings total share repurchases since introducing the share buyback plan last March to roughly $2 6 million shares.
Speaker Change: Dividends paid over 'twenty 'twenty four for $145 4 million.
Speaker Change: I'm very proud that we have been able to return over $1 billion in dividends and share buybacks to investors since 2010, while investing in growth maintaining a strong balance sheet.
Speaker Change: Issuing any equity through public offerings.
Speaker Change: Moving onto our guidance for this year in.
In 2025, we are expecting largely steady state operations with the notable changes relative to 2024 being the sale of La Arena, the lower centre and the residual leach face and improved operations at La Colorado following the ventilation upgrade.
Speaker Change: We are expecting to produce between 20 to 21 million ounces of silver and 735 to 800000 ounces of gold in 2025.
Speaker Change: We expect both silver and gold production to be weighted to the second half of the year, the corresponding effects of lower per unit costs over that period.
Speaker Change: Please see our Q4 news release and the MD&A for quarterly production and cost estimates.
Speaker Change: Average all in sustaining costs for silver segment in 2025 are expected to be between 16, 25, and $8 25 per ounce.
Speaker Change: The gold segment, we expect all in sustaining costs of between 1525 to $1625 per ounce in 2025.
Speaker Change: Sustaining capital is forecasted to be between $270 million to $285 million and project capital of between $90 million to $100 million.
Speaker Change: So it's a capital includes investment of luck, let Ara and the current vein mine operation aimed at opening production access to 13, new veins. These discoveries will expand high grade zones in the eastern part of the mine and we're highlight that the analogy some benign 2024 annual exploration update news.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: But the local artist <unk> project, we plan to invest $39 million to $42 million in exploration and infill drilling and to advance the technical studies to determine the optimum development scenario for the company.
Speaker Change: We're also investing project capital attendance for the construction of the stage six tailings storage facility and exploration of satellite deposits.
Speaker Change: A check Obinna, we are directing project capital to advance the comprehensive mine and plant optimization study expected to describe some initial value enhancement projects by midyear.
Speaker Change: That's why don't we have some residual project capital related to the new tailings filtration plant and filter stack tailing storage.
Speaker Change: Which have been successfully commissioning and ramping up to full operation.
Speaker Change: We plan to invest about $80 million on exploration in 2025, mostly for reserve replacement.
Speaker Change: We are forecasting cash taxes of $240 million to $260 million.
Speaker Change: Approximately one third to be paid in the first quarter of 2025.
Speaker Change: Maintenance costs are estimated to total between $25 million to $24 million, mostly related to Escobar.
Speaker Change: Well it can meetings amongst the participants in the consultation process for Escobar resumed in late January after the Christmas break.
Speaker Change: We will continue to work with the government of Guatemala, and the zinc. It represented this to advance the consultation process.
Speaker Change: The government has not yet published the timeline for completion of the consultation.
Speaker Change: No date for restart of the operation.
Speaker Change: Heading into 2025 Pan American is well positioned to benefit from the strong metal price environment. We are in the.
Speaker Change: The mines, we acquired through the amount of transaction and the strong operating teams managing them I'm now well integrated in our organization we've.
Speaker Change: We've made significant strides in the restaurant and analyzing the portfolio and we will continue with a focus on safe efficient and sustainable mining operations.
Speaker Change: We will continue to build an even better and stronger company that offers investors a unique upside to silver with expanding margins and a rising metal price environment.
Speaker Change: Well on track with that goal and I look forward to keeping you informed of our progress.
Speaker Change: I will be happy now to take your questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you, we'll now begin the question session.
And the question queue you May Press Star then one on your telephone keypad, you'll hear tone Allergan your request.
Speaker Change: Using a speakerphone please pick up your handset before pressing any key.
Speaker Change: Jay a question. Please press Star then two.
Speaker Change: The first question comes from Cosmos Shue Ti.
Speaker Change: CIBC. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Michael and T. Oh, maybe my first question is la Colorado.
Speaker Change: I see that your 2025 guidance is five and a half to $5 8 million ounces.
Speaker Change: I would've thought that could have been slightly higher just given that you produce one 6 million ounces in Q4.
Speaker Change: But I guess not everything's on a straight line. So could you maybe comment on the job on 2025 guidance call about Colorado.
Cosmos: Sure Cosmos.
Cosmos: I'll, let Steve answer that question.
Cosmos: Good morning Cosmos. Thank you.
Cosmos: If you recall in December we put out a press release that highlighted some of the really significant exploration remember so for sending them off to the east side.
Cosmos: But area on Campbell area.
Cosmos: What we decided to do is there's a bit of a balancing going on.
Cosmos: We're trying to you know.
Cosmos: Reduced a little bit the burden, we garner capacity burden in the system on waste movement, and we want to develop out into this new area to bring long term value to two that operation. So we're balancing you know what kind of impacts do we want to see next year compared to trying to get out aggressively.
Cosmos: Opening up that new area in understanding better the potential reserves out in that area. So it was kind of a happy medium we chose from 'twenty to 'twenty five take a little bit of short term pain.
Cosmos: Paying for long term gain there.
Speaker Change: I'll, let Chris talk a little bit about what we're seeing out there and why we're doing it but before that I. Just also want to mention that along the way going out to that east. We do cross section of concession that belongs to one of our neighbors. So we won't be mining through a concession there and there seems to be some more of their burden.
Speaker Change: We'll share some of the profits without concession owner as we pass through there. So that has a bit of an impact on the cost and the production as well, but it's really the waste constraint. We wanted to develop that area. We only have so much capacity to move ore and waste. So something's got to give us where you open up that area and we think long term, it's going to be.
Speaker Change: Brings substantial additional value to the company and I'll, let Chris kind of highlight Omar Yeah, Hi.
Chris: This is Chris here.
Chris: As Mike mentioned.
Chris: As Mike mentioned, Joe 30, new structures, which was highlighted in the December exploration press release.
Speaker Change: Been alluding to this over the last year, we've put a lot of effort into just sort of moving a lot of the exploration overtime each portion.
Speaker Change: Some of the major structures, the NC, two et cetera, but if you remember the lack Colorado mine has been deepening and you know as we we know that through the system as it becomes more poly metallic rates, so finding new structures.
Speaker Change: Finding new areas higher up in the system is obviously beneficial and that's why we're really concentrating on that eastern portion and southeast of the skull and area, which is a depth as well, but we've had some great results as you can see in that press release, and that's certainly something to look forward to for the future of the company.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: And maybe you know same type of question for Jacobina as well Youre guiding to 180 595000 ounces in 2025.
Speaker Change: I thought that could have gone higher potentially as well just given that you you did a record 52 part of core.
Speaker Change: In Q4 2024.
Speaker Change: Could you maybe comment on that and also maybe comment on.
Speaker Change: I believe there's some optimization studies ongoing at jacobina, how that's going so far as well.
Cosmos: Yes, cosmos to hear them.
Cosmos: Yeah, we had a remarkable year in a remarkable Q4, Jack can be and we're very very happy with the way that operation.
As Debottlenecking continues to Debottleneck with that said there were some projects that are underway during 2025.
Cosmos: Outside of the optimization study to try to firm up the plant.
Cosmos: And give us stability, we got some screens that are undersized, where a portion of them too hard. So we're replacing some screens in the crushing plant as well as the grinding circuit, we're doing some upgrades on our CIP carbon in pulp tanks.
Cosmos: To give us a sustainable run rate, but those projects won't be done until late in the year. So we didn't want to we didn't want to forecast the kind of production to reports we had during during Q4 for the whole first nine months given those projects once those projects are done and we're quite confident.
Cosmos: And as part of the optimization work, but I'll talk about next we're quite confident mid year, we'll be able to come out with some you know looking forward beyond <unk> five as to how we can push that plant up a little bit relative to the optimization studies that work, it's going really well there's a few.
Cosmos: <unk> or that are going to come out we're going to be announcing them later in 'twenty five mid year that deals with our handling of this this concept of this paste plant that we've been talking about for the underground mine that allow us to get a better recovery of the reserve and resources that exists there.
Cosmos: But also in the longer term picture, we gather changed the way we're handling some of the tailings. So we're looking at it filter plant there too. So the optimization studies is kind of starting to break up into different phases. The first phase will focus on getting those projects out along with with getting this mill sustain that.
Cosmos: Kind of throughput we saw in Q4, and then we see future potential is really starting to get excited in there as well too as to what we can do during 'twenty six 'twenty seven.
Mhm.
Cosmos: And maybe one last question.
Cosmos: Bigger picture.
Speaker Change: Michael I'm sure you've noticed that Newmont has now sold the Timmins assets.
Speaker Change: Does this now change how you view the Timmins assets.
Speaker Change: And then also can you remind us of the book value you have for these assets.
Speaker Change: Look there's all sorts of doing really really well as you can imagine.
Speaker Change: But I think we talked about that.
Speaker Change: In the past.
Speaker Change: I am a strong believer in we're strong believers.
Speaker Change: That district Entitlements district.
Speaker Change: Generate way more value.
Speaker Change: And then you know maybe maybe a bit of difference for looking at Oh, no not know yet how that will look like but working working together on many fronts. There are lots of trucks and transportation going all different directions, but win.
Speaker Change: New months are all soon discover yourself around ourselves. So I think there's a lot to optimize.
Speaker Change: But would it be the early too.
Speaker Change: So to talk about that but I think there's a lot we can do.
Speaker Change: The Dino helps helps our shareholders and probably helps discovery shareholders as well.
Speaker Change: Plus obviously the reason why they did the deal with Newmont I think that's a great district in Canada, great producer of Cold.
Speaker Change: And don't forget it's not only it's not only our.
Speaker Change: Two operations, there, but I think the VSAT in the past some results from some of the more satellite exploration programs that Chris is doing that at Whitney.
Speaker Change: And gold River rehab as well. So there are some very very interesting additional southern lights, and I think everything will play and then dose decision. So I think it's a very exciting time for tenants.
Speaker Change: Great.
Speaker Change: Thanks, again, Michael Steib Christian and team those are all the questions I had thank you.
Michael Steib: Thanks Cosmos.
Speaker Change: Once again, if you have a question. Please press Star then one.
Speaker Change: Next question comes from Don Demarco with National Bank Financial Please go ahead.
Thank you operator, and good morning, Michael and team got.
Speaker Change: We have constructed guy really showed some stability in the ops.
Speaker Change: Okay. So a few questions can you hear me okay.
Speaker Change: I mean do you go ahead, okay, great. So.
Speaker Change: I jumped on a little bit late you may have talked a bit about jacobina, but what is the timing of the optimization study and what details can you share now about.
Speaker Change: The throughput increases or mine life extensions things like that that had been talked about at one point.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Hi, Dawn Steve here.
Speaker Change: Yeah, we had a great Q4 start to being though we were able to accomplish.
Speaker Change: The target, we set ourselves of trying to get the throughput through.
Speaker Change: Through the mine and the plant.
Speaker Change: 275000 tons.
Just stay up 9000 tons a day, we accomplish that we were very pleased with that.
Speaker Change: But we do have some projects. So we have to complete them to play out we're changing some screens in the crusher, we're changing some screens in the grinding circuit, we're upgrading some of the tanks and some of the tailings pumping that will give us stability and sustainability of that kind of throughput is what we're seeing so a big part of the optimization.
Speaker Change: As those projects are done it will capture those values and give us a sustainability.
Speaker Change: Late in the 25, and certainly into 2026 and will kind of disclose what those numbers are looking like mid year now mid year. The optimization study is starting to split off and the different phases, and we are seeing phase one.
Speaker Change: We're looking at those paste plant that we've talked about over the last year or so bringing that in to allow us to recover more of the reserves.
Speaker Change: And also we got a longer term tailings disposal alternatives, which the paste plant helps us with but also we're looking at Oh filter plant for tailings disposal too so that will kind of be the phase one optimization more we'll announce some projects around that and what the.
Speaker Change: Returns on investments are were targeting mid year.
Speaker Change: This year the theory, though and then beyond that we will move into phase two which once we understand how those three Dan we got some really interesting optimizations that we're going to be continuing on that will bring value went into 26 27 28 will be a phase III program later.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thank you for that.
And while I have your your ear here Enel coming on.
Speaker Change: We're seeing stable production year over year costs are stable and attractive ASIC midpoint of call. It 35, actually even slightly lower year over year. It's does this mean that the sort of initial integration pickups are really in the rearview mirror and you feel uncomfortable with this asset now.
Speaker Change: Absolutely Yeah, Great question, Don and Yeah, we're very pleased with the stability that we're focusing a lot of effort on exploration, we want to extend that mine life. That's a great cash flowing asset for us costs are stable the operation stable.
Speaker Change: I'll remind you it's out of 130 kind of thousand ounces year gold production levels.
Speaker Change: You know it was a little less than what we aggressively pursued in 'twenty three but that.
Speaker Change: Kind of dialing that in we feel very comfortable with that operation and that's performing incredibly well.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: If you recall it was really it was really the spacing.
Speaker Change: Some of those drilling in some of the stopes.
Speaker Change: Does that.
Speaker Change: But we saw that the impact at the beginning of it I wouldn't call. It already at an integration hiccup I think the team at Pantheon is doing an unbelievable job in and integrate it very easily into our company and our system. So that the other yamana assets.
Speaker Change: So not really an issue on the on the integration, but really that space drilling on.
Speaker Change: Chris and his team did a lot of work drilling drilling that out and nothing were seeing the result of that now.
Speaker Change: Okay.
We could see and for.
Speaker Change: Michael last question unethical ball. So you mentioned that the government hasn't published timeline for completion of the complication Parker.
Speaker Change: What is your sense here, it's been a stalemate for about a year now.
Speaker Change: Right.
Speaker Change: There are probably other means going on are there reasons to be optimistic for 25 or what are your thoughts on that score.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I wouldn't call it a stalemate and there's a lot of meetings going on.
Speaker Change: As you recall with the new government coming in just about a year ago that I was kind of polo, a slow startup last year to get there, but there's a lot of work going on in the background between the actor So I wouldn't call it a stalemate.
Speaker Change: I mean, you know we had to kind of some some timings for meetings published years ago by the government.
Speaker Change: I think Thats you know really.
Speaker Change: It didn't really bring that much as you just put pressure on us.
Speaker Change: On actors doesn't unnecessary so we'd rather just continue with many meetings with money.
Speaker Change: Discussions we can.
Speaker Change: Way too you know.
Speaker Change: Two hopefully a positive solution here so yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I wouldn't call it the stalemate I think there's probably.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Let me, let me have Sean, giving an update quick update here.
Speaker Change: Quite a lot going on yeah.
Speaker Change: Michael There was there was a change in government last year and so they did change out the vice Minister sustainable development, who leads the process. So that was a.
Speaker Change: A key.
Speaker Change: Some of the delays last year, but the meetings are ongoing into Q4, we had several meetings with the government.
Speaker Change: As well as Shiga Parliament has meetings with the government. So those were good and then things always slowdown over the holidays and into early January and we've just started picking up again with some meetings with the government and so I feel like there's going to be a lot more activity in the coming weeks and months and hopefully we're able to provide a more meaningful update us on the developments.
Speaker Change: After the Q1 results.
Speaker Change: So looking forward to that okay.
Speaker Change: Okay excellent. Thank you for that.
Speaker Change: That's all for me good luck with Q1 and the rest of the year.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: This concludes the question and answer session I would like to turn the conference back over to Michael Steinmann for any closing Mike. Please go ahead.
<unk>.
Speaker Change: Sorry, operator, I just see that a question came in country could be onset up please.
Speaker Change: Yes of course, the next question comes from Obs Habib with Scotiabank. Please go ahead.
Obs Habib: Hey, Michael on the Panama <unk>, just a couple of questions for me sorry.
Speaker Change: You've already touched upon some of these as I've been bouncing between a couple of calls.
Speaker Change: Michael just a quick question in regards to the guidance I believe production and cost of second half weighted.
Speaker Change: Any kind of color that you can provide in terms of what athletes will drive the split between the first and second half.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I will let Steve stood up but just in general for the listener because it's obviously a reoccurring theme they pan American and its largely driven partially driven by by the weather. So by the seasons rainy season strides seasons cold winters in the far South as you remember we are in all different kind of claw.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: You saw the same last year, obviously in the year before and so you know it's a very strong production we had in Q4.
Speaker Change: Nothing obviously, if we can do that with the climate that is just that's just but what what it is for the assets that are distributed widely over different climate zones, but I'll I'll have Steve give me a bit more detail yeah. Thanks all of us.
Speaker Change: One of the bigger drivers of the Cerro Moro much.
Smart sequencing is we're opening up the the Naughty open pit where getting the hard grade later in the year, that's really driving a big part of it she window as Michael mentioned is very very weather dependent so we generally see better production going in late in the year, there as well I think those are <unk>.
Speaker Change: Probably the two bigger drivers, there's a bit of that adult opinion, but it's again, it's just smart in sequence.
Speaker Change: Perfect, Thanks for that Steven and Michael as well.
Speaker Change: And my just my next question.
Speaker Change: It is more the fact that again you had a great Q4 generally brought up the gasoline in Q4.
Speaker Change: That based on operation was kind of it looks like they are stabilizing going into into 2025 as well. So that's really good to see.
Speaker Change: Now that kind of integrated all those the amount of assets.
Speaker Change: You've done a great job on the noncore as well is it time now to start focusing on more on the exploration side or how should we look at that from 25 in terms of exploration.
Speaker Change: Well, we never really slowed down on exploration.
Speaker Change: So it's a substantial budget for exploration.
Speaker Change: They tend to even increase that budget during the year it really depends on the results.
Speaker Change: As you know I'm, a geologist by training and a strong exploration results all this.
Speaker Change: We'll be rewarded with more investments this is really the bread and butter of our business and.
Speaker Change: Obviously, you'll have to plant already building and and the mine has already developed largely so in each place replacing that reserve is incredibly important ancillary it generates a lot of value. So exploration all of it is a very big focus, but our exploration as you know as we refocus some brownfield so close to our sites.
Speaker Change: Reserve addition, maybe some truckle distance, where we're looking at some truckload satellites in some place or something Sarah Mora comes to mind, where we're actually mining that one zone right. Now we are just discovered another one that Chris.
Speaker Change: Chris and his team are drilling now so exploration is always a really core to us. If you look back they have been incredibly successful.
Replacing hundreds of millions of ounces of silver over the last lets say 15 years with brownfield exploration onside exploration and don't forget our exploration program.
Speaker Change: This covered discount deposit so.
Speaker Change: This will always be a big focus on that.
Speaker Change: That's perfect. Thank Michael for that and thanks for taking my questions and looking forward to seeing you during <unk>.
Speaker Change: Thank you see you then.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: The next question comes from Adrian Day, with Adrian Day asset management. Please go ahead.
Adrian Day: Yes. Good morning, just a follow up if I may on Escobar, but taking a different direction.
Adrian Day: Once you get the approval to reopen and Nichols Youll obviously.
Adrian Day: Getting indication, that's coming probably before it actually happens, but how soon before youll, producing again and how soon before its fully ramped back up.
Adrian Day: Oh, Yeah, Hi, Adrian look.
Adrian Day: That could take probably probably is a good quarter to two to start up the first stope.
Adrian Day: As you know or probably remember from the time the vitol when they ask what wasn't production those stopes are very sizable produce a lot of silver.
Adrian Day: So that's.
Adrian Day: That would start I guess month stope at basketball to be equivalent to about five to 6 million ounces of silver per year. So that's already has a strong startup I think thereafter, probably about about the part of the year to bring it but what would it take to bring it back to full production.
Which was somewhere in the range of 20 to 22 million ounces a year.
Adrian Day: Okay. Okay. That's helpful and then just.
Adrian Day: Once the approval is granted you as it.
Speaker Change: Company are you ready.
Adrian Day: Now ready to start.
Or would you say well, we've got other things going on and we'll leave it a few months now.
Adrian Day: There's obviously an incredible.
Adrian Day: Mine.
Adrian Day: Project. So of course, all of our focus on our on this there's always a lot going on in all we have a very accomplished team that can handle money assets at the same time I think that we have shown that our year over year over year, So but of course that will be our number one focus.
Adrian Day: Probably enormous starwood.
Adrian Day: Over the past year stuff.
Adrian Day: We normally spend is probably as much as $24 million in the past may be now more between 18 and $20 million in care and maintenance at the Das up we'll make sure that everything is in top shape and the restart can happen all caught up on as quickly as possible.
Adrian Day: Okay I appreciate that thank you.
Adrian Day: Thank you.
Speaker Change: This concludes the question and answer session I would like to turn the conference back over to Michael Steinmann for any closing remarks.
Michael Steinmann: Thank you operator, and thanks for everyone calling in today. Yeah. These are exciting times for Pan American silver very high metal prices very strong cash flow generation and great returns to our shareholders.
Michael Steinmann: So you know they will really really focus on maintaining a rigorous controlling our costs.
Michael Steinmann: To maintain those great March and stuff that we own.
Michael Steinmann: Going right now and I'm really looking forward to update you in our Q1 call in May until then have a good day and thank you everyone.
Speaker Change: This brings to close today's conference call you may disconnect your lines. Thank you.
Michael Steinmann: Spacing and have a pleasant day.
Michael Steinmann: Okay.
Michael Steinmann: [music].
Michael Steinmann: Okay.
Michael Steinmann: [music].
Michael Steinmann: Uh huh.
Michael Steinmann: Yeah.
Michael Steinmann: [music].