Q4 2024 Colliers International Group Inc Earnings Call

The discussion scheduled to take place today may contain forward looking statements that involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties.

Our results may be materially different from any future results performance or achievements contemplated in the forward looking statements.

Just within our plan it was to cut it to about half of Mexican volumes. So two 5% of total Mexican volumes more or less.

Additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to materially differ from those in the forward looking statements is contained in the company's annual information form as filed with the Canadian Securities administrators and in the company's annual report on form 40 F. As filed with the U S Securities and Exchange Commission.

Looking at it more from the United States perspective, again imports have continued to decline for us. They currently in 2024, we're about 17% of total volumes and imports coming from Mexico have been declining as well quite significantly in the <unk>.

Speaker Change: As a reminder, today's call is being recorded today Thursday February six 2025 and at this time for opening remarks, and introduction I would now like to turn the call over to the global Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Jay Hennick. Thank you. Please go ahead Sir.

<unk> this year was to continue to decline.

Obviously tariffs we believe firmly that if tariffs are imposed within a local market on all players that that would be positive. It would increase in import parity. It would be positive for pricing. If you see a more limited tariff action in a specific market.

Speaker Change: Thank you operator, good morning, and thanks for joining us for the fourth quarter and year end conference call as the operator mentioned I'm, Jay Hennick, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and with me today is Christian Mayer, our Chief Financial Officer as always this call is webcast and available in the Investor Relations section of our website.

Where it only applies to one or two origins of imports, we think it would be fairly neutral in terms of pricing.

Speaker Change: So I hope that covers it Ann.

Speaker Change: Along with the presentation slide deck.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter, Colliers delivered robust growth with strength and momentum across all business segments.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: And the next question comes from Parker Suarez from Scotiabank HOKA.

Speaker Change: Engineering revenues recorded the highest percentage increase driven by recent acquisitions in Canada, The U S and Australia.

Speaker Change: Real estate services performed strongly in both capital markets and leasing while investment management.

So are you there.

Speaker Change: Berrien smart on this growth compared to the previous year.

Speaker Change: Maybe I will move on then.

Speaker Change: Over the past few years Colliers has become stronger and more resilient driven by three high value growth engines real estate services engineering and investment management, all supported by recurring revenues now account for more than 70% of our earnings.

Speaker Change: The next question comes from Doral.

Speaker Change: <unk> from Goldman Sachs.

Speaker Change: Thank you for taking my question. So I wanted to get a better sense of how you view the rebuilding effort for the L. A area. Following the unfortunate wildfires earlier this year or do you have any estimates how much capex could take place over the next few years and how much of it could be related to building materials.

Speaker Change: Looking ahead to 2005, we expect another solid year of growth and we're quite excited about our future prospects.

Speaker Change: Quick follow up on a question I didn't quite understand what was the key driver for aggregates demand it's.

Speaker Change: Our enterprising culture continues to thrive thanks to our experienced leadership that is fully aligned with shareholders. Our global teams have long tenure they operate in a decentralized way that is supported by long term incentive programs that foster an owner's mindset.

Speaker Change: It's forecast to go down in 2025 in the U S. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Yes, Lucy do you want to take that.

Speaker Change: Sure.

Speaker Change: Sorry I was.

Speaker Change: This unique culture provide significant competitive advantages to colliers that is extremely difficult to replicate.

Speaker Change: It's on mute and talking to it.

Speaker Change: So just going back to the aggregates question. We have a couple of quarries that are approaching end of life, which is very normal and in aggregates cycle and what you would like to do is have new quarries that come online to replace those but sometimes you can't always do that in a timely manner our expectation.

Speaker Change: Our new engineering platform now boasts 8000 professionals is underpinned by a strong recurring revenue base and robust contractual backlogs offering significant growth opportunities on a global basis, both internally and through acquisition.

Speaker Change: At the moment is that we have a couple of quarries that are going to be closing because they're at end of life. So we won't have that production in the early part of next year and again, just reminding everyone that our strategy in the United States is to continue to boost our aggregates.

Speaker Change: We also see three near term catalysts that drive even stronger growth in 2025 and beyond.

Speaker Change: In real estate services, our capital markets business is showing cyclical recovery as interest rates and asset valuations stabilize stabilize albeit slower than we expected.

Speaker Change: <unk> is and obviously this has to be very local in nature, but we are looking at opportunities to replace these aggregates that are that are depleting okay.

Speaker Change: Performance hasn't yet reached the 2021 peak are significantly larger scale now positions us extremely well to deliver even stronger results in the future as the market recovers.

Speaker Change: Did that.

Speaker Change: Was I clear.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Yes, so it was more a.

Speaker Change: Supply and demand.

Speaker Change: Yes, correct, Okay and the first part of your question. If you could remind me I'm sorry, I was so focused on the AG now I've forgotten the first part.

Speaker Change: In investment management improved fundraising effort efforts and the launch of several new vintages of our proven investment products set the stage for robust revenue growth and a new step up in growth and profitability as we strategically deploy new capital in new investments.

Speaker Change: Right I just wanted to get a sense of how you view the rebuilding effort in ancillary.

Speaker Change: Elliot wildfires earlier.

Speaker Change: Look our focus in the case of L. A at the moment is obviously on the immediate crisis in the pyres aren't out there. So we have been focused on making sure that our employees are safe that they themselves have housing and we have had a couple that I believe have been at least temporarily displaced and also.

Speaker Change: Going forward.

Finally, as always our 2025 outlook does not include the potential upside from additional acquisitions, which we might complete during the year and have historically been very accretive.

Speaker Change: Aiding our community as well.

Speaker Change: Pipeline remains strong and we expect to continue to scale and diversify each of our three business segments throughout the year.

Speaker Change: There has been a lot of disruption I think that there have been 12000.

Residents.

Speaker Change: This year, we have also decided to accelerate our plans to streamline our investment management operations to take advantage of the synergies much faster than anticipated. This move will set the stage for future opportunities and create increased optionality as we continue to build.

Speaker Change: Those that have been.

Speaker Change: Destroyed in this process just to give you some sense in California, 50000 homes typically are built each year.

Speaker Change: So you can see that that will be quite impactful going forward, but.

At the moment again, we're focused on the immediate crisis and we.

Speaker Change: One of the worlds largest mid market alternative asset managers with about $100 billion of assets under management.

Speaker Change: We will think about what we can do to help with sustainable construction going forward.

Speaker Change: When the government and when our customers are ready to have that discussion, but they definitely aren't there yet.

Christian Mayer: Supported by visionary leadership significant inside ownership and improvement 30 year track record of delivering 20% annualized returns for shareholders Colliers is extremely well positioned to continue to create value for shareholders for many years to come now let me ask Christian to <unk>.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: I think we have time for one last question and the last question comes from Daniel Sasson from Ito Danielle.

Christian Mayer: <unk> Financial report and then we'll open things up for questions Christian. Thank you Jay and good morning, everyone. Please note that the non-GAAP measures discussed here today are as defined in the materials accompanying this call.

Speaker Change: Unfortunately, Daniela has retracted that question.

Speaker Change: Okay. Then I think we have time for one last question from <unk> <unk> from on field caffeine.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Yes, good morning Congrats.

Christian Mayer: Revenues for the fourth quarter from $1 5 billion up 22% relative to the prior year period.

Speaker Change: Congratulations for the very resilient results.

Speaker Change: I would just have a question about I remember in your <unk> you were mentioning about the sum of the parts and some mix.

Christian Mayer: Local currency internal growth, 10% overall and was led by capital markets, which was up meaningfully against a low base in the prior year.

Speaker Change: On the big mismatch between the valuation of PFS on the evaluation and the.

Christian Mayer: And engineering, which had strong gains in both the engineering and project management disciplines.

Speaker Change: When I look at the best price.

And you asked you have done a fantastic job.

Christian Mayer: The fourth quarter's adjusted EBITDA was $225 million up 14% over the prior year with internal growth and acquisitions contributed in a roughly even proportions.

Speaker Change: Leveraging the business becoming.

Speaker Change: Great.

Speaker Change: Finding projects that way for growth.

Speaker Change: Whether you're seeing the market is missing when we when you look at your share price today and is there anything that you can do.

Christian Mayer: Our real estate services operations had 13% revenue growth led by capital markets, which was up 25%.

Speaker Change: To convince you in vessels.

Speaker Change: Could you sort of your mix.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Yes, Hi, Sam Thank you very much for your question.

Christian Mayer: Europe and the Americas drove the capital markets gained with sharp increases in transaction activity in office and industrial asset classes.

Speaker Change: Look I, we're obviously very disappointed at that current valuation of our share.

Christian Mayer: In Asia Pacific strong year over year capital markets growth in Australia was offset by Macroeconomically driven declines in China, Hong Kong and South Korea.

Speaker Change: Clearly and have been for a while.

Speaker Change: We think that probably the biggest contributor to that especially.

Speaker Change: Since the first quarter of 'twenty four has been kind of the expectations of what's likely to happen in Mexico more important than anything else and.

Christian Mayer: Leasing revenues were up 14% with notable increases in activity.

Christian Mayer: The office industrial and retail asset classes globally.

Speaker Change: And obviously in a transition year you have.

Christian Mayer: <unk> margin remained flat versus the prior year quarter with operating leverage from higher revenues.

Speaker Change: No.

Speaker Change: Demand issues, you have currency volatility issues of course, which we have suffered from especially in the last couple of quarters.

Christian Mayer: Offset by ongoing investments to recruit brokerage professionals.

Speaker Change: So.

Christian Mayer: Engineering performed well in Q4 with overall revenue growth of 61% with a bulk from acquisitions as well as high single digit percentage internal growth.

Speaker Change: I think the market is probably going to wait to see how that normalizes over time, we're optimistic.

Speaker Change: About that.

Speaker Change: Clearly.

Speaker Change: Deleveraging is going to continue to probably take place I mean, I don't know if you looked at the numbers, but when I take a look at.

Christian Mayer: The net revenue margin increased slightly decreased slightly to 12, 8% relative to 13, 5% in the prior year period, due mainly to weather related seasonality inherent in recently acquired businesses.

Speaker Change: If you know where we are in terms of our investment.

Speaker Change: Great ratings versus our peers.

Speaker Change: And the leverage levels that we are at versus our peers.

Christian Mayer: Investment management revenues were up 6% overall and up 1% excluding pass through performance fees as expected.

We have a potential definitely potential upside and continuing to deleverage and as I mentioned in one of the questions earlier, our interest expense when you consider.

Christian Mayer: Q4, EBITDA was also up 1%, while the margin was flat relative to the comparable period driven by ongoing investments in our fundraising capabilities and cost to launch New fund products.

Speaker Change: Everything, meaning including the coupons that we pay on our subordinated notes.

Speaker Change: It's probably close to 20% of of our EBITDA and that's more than double.

Christian Mayer: And strategies.

Christian Mayer: We raised $1 3 billion of new capital commitments during the quarter, bringing full year fundraising to $3 8 billion as we expected.

Speaker Change: Than our peers and and that's a huge number of capital.

Speaker Change: Capital or free cash that can be invested in growth or can be returned to shareholders. At the end of the day and I think thats one area that perhaps either the market is not yet paying us for or is not discounting that is also probably going to happen over the next couple of years.

Christian Mayer: We are in the process of deploying capital raised and have started to raise for new vintages launching in 2025.

Christian Mayer: Assets under management at year end were $98 9 billion up slightly from September 30th.

Speaker Change: I also think that.

Christian Mayer: AUM gains came from fundraising and positive mark to market adjustments and then almost all asset classes.

Speaker Change: There is definitely a discount that is being given by the market today in terms of valuation for our four core markets like Mexico compared to the U S. I mean on a risk adjusted basis, I think thats and Thats something that will take time, I mean, I think the Mexican business has demonstrated the nominal resilience and I think that as we.

Christian Mayer: Largely offset by asset realizations at older vintage funds with capital returned to investors.

Christian Mayer: Redemption activity, which is permitted certain restrictions in our perpetual funds with modest.

Speaker Change: To deliver as a company and as a macro economy and as there's more integration between Mexico and the U S. I think the value and the risk adjustment to the earnings coming out of our U S business out of our Mexican business is going to get higher and that's when we believe that we will start seeing.

Christian Mayer: Turning to our balance sheet.

Christian Mayer: During the quarter, we upsized and locked in.

Christian Mayer: Our revolving credit facility for a new five year term with.

Christian Mayer: We currently have over $1 2 billion of capacity to fund future growth.

Speaker Change:

Christian Mayer: Our leverage ratio defined as net debt to pro forma adjusted EBITDA was two times at December 31.

Speaker Change: I don't want to talk from an investor perspective, but that's when we should see a re rating on valuations of those of those earnings what can we do in the interim is very simple frankly has continued to focus on doing the great things that we can do more of and taking a look at the and I know it sounds like motherhood and Apple pie, but taking a look.

Christian Mayer: As expected we deleveraged during the fourth quarter through a combination of EBITDA growth and seasonally strong free cash flow.

Christian Mayer: For the first half of 2025, we expect leverage to remain in the two times range 10 to decline to approximately one five times in the second half.

Speaker Change: Some of the upsides, which which as you heard from the.

Christian Mayer: This of course assumes no material acquisitions.

Speaker Change: From our cost containment effort program, which we started last year I mean that is also.

Christian Mayer: We are introducing our outlook for 2025 with commentary by segment to provide additional clarity.

Speaker Change: Im going to be an important contributor to growth going forward again, we're not expecting the market to bass, where it immediately but certainly that's something that also is going to translate to growth. The other thing that is also very important for everybody to realize is that over the last three years.

Christian Mayer: The outlook reflects currently prevailing foreign exchange rates, which are closely tied to international trade uncertainty and are a headwind to our U S dollar reported results.

Speaker Change: We had a headwind of volumes at the EBITDA level that is close to $750 million. Okay for a variety of reasons now I'm not I'm not saying here that we're going to necessarily recover all of the 750, but clearly there is a natural tendency or should be a natural tendency of recovering a big chunk of that.

We expect our real estate services revenues to grow at mid single digit percentage rate.

Christian Mayer: With a modest margin increase.

Christian Mayer: We expect engineering revenues to be up about 30% with about one fifth of that growth attributable to internal sources.

Christian Mayer: Engineering margins are expected to increased nicely from the impact of higher margin acquisitions.

Speaker Change: Over the next.

Speaker Change: Couple of years at least and so when you add all of those things together.

Christian Mayer: As well as margin expansion in our base business.

Speaker Change: And in US delivering of course, I mean, we need to we need to continue to deliver quarter after quarter I believe the.

Christian Mayer: Our investment management Division is beginning a new cycle of fundraising with several new flagship long dated vintages launching in 2025, which should result in higher revenue streams as we progressed through the year and into 2026.

Speaker Change: The market will see.

Speaker Change: The attractiveness of the of the earnings that we can deliver and hopefully.

Speaker Change: Our evaluation will be.

Speaker Change: More realistic and aligned with our expectations going forward.

Christian Mayer: Given our continuing investments in fundraising and our accelerated operational integration plans 2025 margins are expected to remain flat or modestly down relative to 2024.

Speaker Change: I hope that you very much for your question and ask you don't know if there is.

Speaker Change: Got it.

Speaker Change: That's very helpful. Thank you so much.

Speaker Change: Thank you you asked me.

Speaker Change: We appreciate you joining us today for our fourth quarter results, we hope Youll come back again for first quarter 2025 webcast on April 28, and if you have any additional questions. Please feel free to reach out to the IR team. Many thanks.

Christian Mayer: We are expecting a significant step change in investment management, EBITDA and margins in 2026 as capital formation strengthens.

Christian Mayer: On a consolidated basis for the full year 2025, we expect high single digit to low teens percentage revenue growth.

Speaker Change: Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This concludes the presentation you may now disconnect good day.

Christian Mayer: And low teens, adjusted EBITDA and adjusted adjusted EPS growth.

Speaker Change: [music].

Christian Mayer: Okay.

Christian Mayer: That concludes my prepared remarks, we will now open the call to questions. Operator can you. Please open the line.

Speaker Change: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session should you have a question. Please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Pump that Johanna Speedways.

Speaker Change: Mr Counseling request. Please press star followed by Vicki <unk>.

Speaker Change: You're using a speaker phone please keep the handset before pressing Amy.

Speaker Change: Your first question comes from the line of Anthony <unk> from Jpmorgan. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Great. Thanks, good morning.

Speaker Change: Wanted to start on the engineering side and wondering if you can give us.

A little bit more color on how integration is going.

Speaker Change: Where you may have seen any headwinds.

Speaker Change: And just.

Speaker Change: Movement toward pushing price in that business and just how it's coming along.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Integration has been relatively simple actually because <unk> is a national player in Canada. There was no overlap with the U S business and it was a beautiful.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Ah.

Speaker Change: As beautiful attachment to our base business the only integration that we're dealing with in the engineering area is Australia and New Zealand.

Speaker Change: Where we are continuing to build out a solid and more significant platform, it's going well the results are better than expected.

Speaker Change: But over the next couple of years, we expect more growth and more.

Speaker Change: <unk> and technology to be sort of consistent with what we have both in Canada and the United States. So.

Speaker Change: We're excited about above that but integration is has not been an issue.

Speaker Change: <unk> for reverse engineering.

Speaker Change: Is that investment Youre, making is that a margin headwind in the near term just trying to understand how to think about.

Any pickup there in 'twenty five.

Speaker Change: Well, Tony the margin impact.

Speaker Change: In engineering, it will come from the higher margin acquisitions completed during 2024.

Speaker Change: And also some organic margin improvement.

Speaker Change: Some of these integration efforts in Australia, they do take time and they do take energy and they do have.

Speaker Change: A slight adverse margin impact.

Speaker Change: We're also integrating our newly acquired <unk> business in the U S and that will take place over the next 12 months and there is considerable work to do to integrate these tuck in acquisitions, but not meaningfully impactful on our on our margins.

Speaker Change: Okay and then just my my second question just in investment management can.

Speaker Change: Can you give us any just.

Speaker Change: Capital raising goals or net sort of AUM. You think you should end up with when you consider the new products, you're launching as well as net of any.

Speaker Change: Sort of liquidations of vehicles, maybe put aside.

Speaker Change: Market change.

Speaker Change: Yes, Toni as I mentioned, we raised $3 8 billion of capital in 2025, which was an increase from sorry in 2024, let me say that again, we raised $3 8 billion in 2024, which is an increase from 2023.

Speaker Change: Conditions have obviously been challenging the last couple of years. So that's the context for.

Speaker Change: For 2025, we are expecting to raise between five and $8 billion of capital.

Speaker Change: And this isn't new vintages.

Speaker Change: Funds. So these funds are going to have first closes and the <unk>.

Speaker Change: Mid year to late year.

Speaker Change: This year, and then accelerating with additional fundraising as we head into 2026.

Speaker Change: So as I mentioned.

Speaker Change: Hey.

Speaker Change: A building year with a new fundraising cycle, starting and we expect fundraising to pick up meaningfully.

Speaker Change: Into late 'twenty, five hopefully and certainly in 2026.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks for the time.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Stephen Macleod from BMO capital markets. Please go ahead.

Stephen Macleod: Thank you good morning, guys.

Stephen Macleod: I just wanted to follow up on the engineering business, which had a nice quarter and it seems like a decent outlook.

Can you talk a little bit about just the margin dynamic in the first quarter and then and then you talked about just the margin expectation for 2025, and just curious if you can put some color around how that is expected to evolve and what level that could potentially get to this year.

Stephen Macleod: Yes so.

Stephen Macleod: Stephen our Q4 margin was impacted by newly acquired businesses.

Stephen Macleod: During the year and as you know in globe is that.

Stephen Macleod: Significant Canadian engineering firm and has weather related seasonality.

Stephen Macleod: <unk> to it.

Stephen Macleod: That is a and impacts that we saw in the 2024 quarter, but not in the 2023 quarter.

Stephen Macleod: Okay.

Stephen Macleod: So as we look ahead to 2025.

Stephen Macleod: We'll benefit from a full year effect of recent acquisitions, which are at higher margins than the base business. So certainly expect.

Stephen Macleod: A.

Stephen Macleod: 150 basis points or so margin increase in 2025 in the engineering segment on an overall basis. The other thing you need that.

Stephen Macleod: Think about here is that we report our revenues on a gross basis.

Stephen Macleod: If you look at our revenues on a net basis and we did provide some information in our materials, but what those net revenues.

Stephen Macleod: Our.

Stephen Macleod: Our engineering segment, our margin is two to 300 basis points higher on a net revenue basis. So we're going to continue to provide information in one form and if are also there is.

Stephen Macleod: The other pieces when you're comparing us to the Canadian.

Stephen Macleod: Engineering firms.

Stephen Macleod: Underwrite for us they do not include rent expense.

Stephen Macleod: As an expense against the EBITDA, so that again raises their margin profile relative to our U S. GAAP reported margin by another 100 to 200 basis points.

Stephen Macleod: Right Okay.

Stephen Macleod: That's helpful.

Stephen Macleod: And then just turning to the investment management business.

Stephen Macleod: You characterized this year as a new cycle of fundraising and it sounds like you have a lot of.

Stephen Macleod: A lot of initiatives on the go.

Stephen Macleod: As we think through the margin impact this year and next year do you foresee a scenario where investment management margins kind of get back into that.

Stephen Macleod: 445% range in 2026, once you've completed your fundraising and you really see that.

Stephen Macleod: Revenue pick up.

Steve: Steve the answer is yes.

Stephen Macleod: See those margins improving.

Speaker Change: And principally today were impacted by additional investments in fund raising.

Stephen Macleod: Integration.

Stephen Macleod: Sure.

Stephen Macleod: We've accelerated the process on so those are costs headwinds given the relatively modest revenue growth we've seen.

<unk> management business I think you characterized this year as a new cycle of fundraising and it sounds like you have a lot of.

Stephen Macleod: But as that revenue growth accelerates with fund raising our margins should increase.

A lot of initiatives on the go.

Stephen Macleod: In lockstep with that and certainly we would hope to be back at that mid Forty's.

As we think through the margin impact this year and next year do you foresee a scenario where investment management margins kind of get back into that.

Speaker Change: Hi, <unk>.

Stephen Macleod: Percentage margin over the next year or two.

Steve: Steve I would add.

Steve: I'd add something to that.

445% range in 2026, once you've completed your fund raising and you really see that.

Steve: <unk> been a long analysts but.

Steve: <unk>.

Steve: We are being very aggressive in this segment this year.

Revenue pick up.

Steve: As I sort of indicated in my comments there is a massive opportunity we have a significant business with great strategies.

Steve the answer is yes.

We see those margins improving.

And principally <unk>.

We're impacted by additional investments in fund raising.

Results for our investors.

Steve: And the fact that fund raising has been soft across the board I'm just going to give you some additional color to it across the board when it's done.

Integration.

Which we've accelerated the process on some of those are costs headwinds given the relatively modest revenue growth we've seen.

But as that revenue growth accelerates with fund raising our margins.

Steve: It has brought our strategies closer together the leaders of each of the strategies closer together and they spent a lot of time.

Should increase.

In lockstep with that and certainly we would hope to be back at that mid Forty's.

Steve: Talking about synergies fundraising and a variety of other initiatives that they believe that they can.

Hi.

Percentage margin over the next year or two.

Steve I'd add.

I'd add something to that <unk>.

Steve: Significantly benefit from going forward, if they took certain strategic steps. These are steps that we always had anticipated as you know and building our platform. We always focused on doing it in partnership with the operating management teams, but what's happening interestingly in this.

<unk> been a long analyst but.

<unk>.

We are being very aggressive in this segment this year.

I sort of indicated in my comments there is a massive opportunity we have a significant business with great strategies great.

Great results for our investors.

Steve: <unk> is theyre, all coming together much faster than we expected primarily because of the macro conditions and thats, creating huge opportunity so although and.

And the fact that fund raising has been soft across the board I am just going to give you some additional color to it across the board when it's done.

Steve: Yes, we have new <unk>.

It has brought our strategies closer together the leaders of each of the strategies closer together and they spent a lot of time talking about synergies fund raising and a variety of other initiatives that they believe that they can.

Steve: New products launching this year, which will help our business and will return our emergence to 45%, but I think our.

Steve: Our overall platform will accelerate materially.

Over the next 18 months and really positions us beautifully going forward based on what we're seeing.

Significantly benefit from going forward, if they took certain strategic steps. These are steps that we always anticipated as you know and building our platform. We always focused on doing it in partnership with the operating management teams, but what's happening interestingly in this segment.

Steve: <unk>.

Steve: Across the board in this segment of our business that could include name change that could include a niche.

Steve: Integrated leadership team all of which creates more flexibility for us all of us.

Is there all coming together much faster than we expected primarily because of the macro conditions and thats, creating huge opportunity so although.

Steve: All of this creates new optionality for us and this business.

As you know is highly valuable.

Steve: We were approached on an ongoing basis bye bye.

And yes, we have new.

New products launching this year, which will help our business and will return our emergence to 45%, but I think our.

Steve: <unk>.

Steve: That would love to have this platform as part of their organization. We on the other hand have a tremendous management team that believes that they can take this business to new Heights, and we made we made the executive decision to accelerate our plans and get ourselves ready for 26%.

Our overall platform will accelerate materially.

The next 18 months and really position us beautifully going forward based on what we're seeing.

Steve: Beyond and.

Steve: Theres lots of exciting things happening so we're quite excited about it.

Across the board in this segment of our business that could include name change that could include.

Steve: It will impact our.

Steve: Our margins I believe in 25, not really don't really care about that too much to be honest as long as long term shareholders.

Integrated leadership team all of which creates more flexibility for us all of US all of this creates new optionality for us and this business.

Steve: And business builders, but this will translate into huge value I think in the years to come.

As you know is highly valuable.

Speaker Change: Yeah, Okay, well, that's great color Jay Thank you and.

And we were approached on an ongoing basis by by men.

Speaker Change: Is it consistent with your long term approach.

Speaker Change: So thank you very much for that color, maybe just one more question if I could just on the recruiting investments in the real estate services business I mean, what do you need to see to see returns on those investments.

That would love to have this platform as part of their organization. We on the other hand have a tremendous management team that believes that they can take this business to new Heights, and we made we made the executive decision to accelerate our plans and get ourselves ready for 'twenty.

Speaker Change: Well, we're seeing the returns already youre seeing strong leasing results.

And beyond and.

Speaker Change: The one thing Thats.

Theres lots of exciting things happening so we're quite excited about it.

<unk>.

Speaker Change: That's become clear to us to over over the course of time is we've created and again I've mentioned it we've created a unique culture, which is which has been part of our way of operating for many many years.

It will impact our.

Our margins I believe in 25, not really don't really care about that too much to be honest as lobster as long term shareholders.

Speaker Change: Recruiting has been right up there colliers is.

And business builders, but this will translate into huge value I think in the years to come.

Speaker Change: Hands down the third most recognized.

Speaker Change: Firm in the World we operate in every city, we look at this business not dissimilar to the to the <unk>.

Speaker Change: Yeah, Okay, well, that's great color Jay Thank you and obviously consistent with your long term approach.

Speaker Change: So thank you very much for that color, maybe just one more question if I could just on the recruiting investments in the real estate services business I mean, what do you need to see to see returns on those investments.

Speaker Change: Counting industry I'm not sure there's much difference between price Waterhouse, Deloitte and the other accounting firm there is for sure not that much difference between CB Jones Lang and Colliers our professionals are as good as their professionals, we have leading market positions in every major market around the world.

Speaker Change: Well, we're seeing the returns already youre seeing strong leasing results.

Speaker Change: The one thing Thats.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: And we have a platform that continues to grow market for market despite that.

Speaker Change: That's become clear to us to over over the course of time is we've created and again I mentioned it we've created a unique culture, which is which has been part of our way of operating for many many years.

Speaker Change: The headwinds that this industry is under.

Speaker Change: So if.

Speaker Change: We see capital markets returning as just one example.

Speaker Change: Recruiting has been right up there colliers is.

Speaker Change: Two previous levels huge upside for us, but we also are taking advantage of other opportunities within that business to continue to accelerate our growth and.

Speaker Change: Hands down the third most recognized.

Speaker Change: Our firm in the World we operate in every city, we look at this business not dissimilar to the to the <unk>.

Speaker Change: I think youll see that coming through in 'twenty, five and beyond as well.

Speaker Change: Counting industry I'm not sure there's much difference between price Waterhouse, Deloitte and the other accounting firm there is for sure not that much difference between CB Jones Lang and Colliers our professionals are as good as their professionals, we have leading market positions in every major market around the world.

Speaker Change: That's great. Thank you Jim I appreciate the color.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Stephen Sheldon from William Blair. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Hey, Thanks for taking my questions first one here just following up on Europe investment management commentary Jay.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: If you think of if you talk about kind of operational integration can you give more detail about what that really means how integrated do you want those assets to be what functions are you wanting more integrated and is generally how this.

Speaker Change: And we have a platform that continues to grow market for market. Despite the.

The headwinds that this industry is under.

Speaker Change: So if.

Speaker Change: We see capital markets returning as just one example.

Speaker Change: Mission the iam.

Speaker Change: Segment for better financial contribution looking forward is it more about better top line growth with better distribution or.

Speaker Change: Two previous levels huge upside for us, but we also are taking advantage of other opportunities within that business to continue to accelerate our growth and.

Speaker Change: There is a pretty big potential from a margin uplift to I mean, you kind of are you talking about getting to mid <unk> to mid forties.

I think youll see that coming through in 'twenty, five and beyond as well.

Speaker Change: And margins, but just how are you.

Speaker Change: More detailed here I guess on the operational integration.

Jerry: That's great. Thank you Jerry I appreciate the color.

Speaker Change: Well the interesting part is strategy for strategy is not going to be integrated they're led by tremendous investors that have delivered superior returns.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Stephen Sheldon William Blair. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Hey, Thanks for taking my questions first one here just following up on Europe investment management commentary Jay.

Speaker Change: Over over many many years, what we are integrating as more of the back office.

Speaker Change: If you think of if you talk about kind of operational integration can you give more detail about what that really means how integrated do you want those assets to be what functions are you wanting more integrated and is generally how this because this could position the iam segment for better financial contribution looking forward is it more about better.

Speaker Change: Regulatory.

Speaker Change: We're spending lots of time on.

Speaker Change: On fund raising.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: And in particular.

Speaker Change: In particular.

Speaker Change: It makes no sense for us to be fund raising.

Speaker Change: Top line growth with better distribution or.

Speaker Change: Three or four different strategies through three or four different brands.

Speaker Change: They are pretty big enterprise margin uplift to I mean, you kind of already talked about getting to mid <unk> to mid forty's.

Speaker Change: Investors investors want to consolidate.

And margins, but just how are you.

Speaker Change: Just more detail there I guess on the operational integration.

Speaker Change: Their investment decisions and so we're looking at more of back office synergies.

Speaker Change: Well the interesting part is strategy for strategy is not going to be integrated they're led by tremendous investors that have delivered superior returns.

Speaker Change: Our.

Speaker Change: <unk> results have been stellar when compared to other peers and so it's all around how do we do this in a more streamlined way. It is it has been it has been the colliers wafer ever to look at simplicity and streamlining.

Speaker Change: Over over many many years, what we are integrating as more of the back office.

Speaker Change: Regulatory.

Speaker Change: Leaving the.

Speaker Change: We're spending lots of time on.

Speaker Change: The people on the frontline.

Speaker Change: On fund raising.

Speaker Change: That are the entrepreneurs the investors to continue to deliver on on the the positive results that they have been generating so.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: And in particular.

Speaker Change: In particular.

Speaker Change: It makes no sense for us to be fund raising.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: I think I think.

Speaker Change: Three or four different strategies through three or four different brands.

Speaker Change: Youll see in the next year or two months.

Speaker Change: Much of the back office come together.

Speaker Change: Investors investors want to consolidate.

Speaker Change: And the synergies created around things that are ancillary to the.

Speaker Change: Their investment decisions and so we're looking at more of back office synergies.

Speaker Change: To the investment principles that have made our business is as strong as they are.

Speaker Change:

Speaker Change: Our investment results have been stellar when compared to other peers and so it's all around how do we do this in a more streamlined way. It is it has been it has been the colliers wafer ever to look at simplicity and streamlining.

Speaker Change: Got it makes a lot of sense and then just as a follow up within the Rds kind of mid single digit guidance for 2025 can you frame roughly what your underlying assumptions are for the brokerage segment.

Speaker Change: While leaving the.

Speaker Change: About leasing and capital markets.

Speaker Change: The the people on the frontline.

Speaker Change: How conservative do you think <unk> bandwidth your assumptions at this point and are you assuming any pushout of activity in the first half I guess, given some of the noise in the market right now.

Speaker Change: That are the entrepreneurs the investors to continue to deliver on on.

Speaker Change: The positive results that they have been generating so.

Speaker Change: As we think about things like the trade war rate uncertainty et cetera.

Speaker Change: I think I think.

Speaker Change: Yes, sure Steven I mean, all of those things.

Speaker Change: Youll see in the next year or two.

Speaker Change: The trade.

Speaker Change: Much of the back office come together.

Speaker Change: Issues that are being being raised.

Speaker Change: And synergies created around things that are ancillary to the.

Speaker Change: It has resulted in uncertainty.

Speaker Change: Amongst <unk>.

Speaker Change: Occupiers and investors, particularly <unk>.

Speaker Change: To the investment principles that have made our business is as strong as they are.

Speaker Change: Industrial occupiers and investors that relate to the trading goods across borders.

Speaker Change: So thats something that were certainly thinking about we're also seeing the trade impacted.

Speaker Change: Got it makes a lot of sense and then just as a follow up within the Rds kind of mid single digit guidance for 2025 can you frame roughly what.

Speaker Change: Effect on exchange rates and.

Speaker Change: Our growth as we sit here today at prevailing exchange rates, it's going to be impacted by 2% to 3%.

Speaker Change: Your underlying assumptions are for the brokerage segment.

Speaker Change: Think about leasing and capital markets.

Speaker Change: In 2025 with real estate services half our revenue is being generated outside the U S and the same in engineering, just just on currency a saturated on currency alone. So we're thinking about all these things.

Speaker Change: Concern now do you think you've been with your assumptions at this point and are you assuming any pushout of activity in the first half I guess, given some of the noise in the market right now.

Speaker Change: As we think about things like the trade war rate uncertainty et cetera.

Speaker Change: Yes, sure Steven I mean, all of those things.

Speaker Change: As we look at our real estate services outlook.

Speaker Change: The trade.

Speaker Change: And we're also in terms of bifurcated the growth expectations of capital markets I would say, it's a high single digit growth expectation coming off a low basis.

Speaker Change: The issues that are being being raised.

Speaker Change: It has resulted in uncertainty.

Speaker Change: Amongst.

Speaker Change: Occupiers and investors, particularly industrial.

Speaker Change: Then mid single digits for leasing and <unk>.

Speaker Change: Occupiers and investors that relate to the trade in goods across borders.

Speaker Change: And that sourcing, but certainly.

Speaker Change: Those percentage growth.

Speaker Change: So that's something that we're certainly thinking about we're also seeing the trade impacted.

Speaker Change: Impacts alright.

Speaker Change: Alright, those 10 growth figures quoted are.

Speaker Change: Sure.

Speaker Change: Effect on exchange rates and our growth as we sit here today at prevailing exchange rates, it's going to be impacted by 2% to 3%.

Speaker Change: Being influenced by current trade policy and FX conditions.

Speaker Change: Steve.

I think it could it could be higher.

Speaker Change: In 2025 with real estate services half, our revenues being generated outside the U S and at the same and engineering just just on currency just actuate on currency alone. So we're thinking about all these things.

Speaker Change: It will just have to see how things roll out.

Speaker Change: We would have expected we would've expected in capital markets, which did nicely in the fourth quarter. I think we were we were hoping it would be doing a little better than it did.

Speaker Change: As we look at our real estate services outlook.

Speaker Change: Things could change, but it's.

Speaker Change: And we're also in terms of bifurcated the growth expectations, you know capital markets I would say at the high single digit growth expectation coming off a low basis.

Speaker Change: It relates to interest rates it relates to asset valuations gaps between buyers and sellers. There's a lot of factors that could change, but when it changes it could make a material positive impact on our.

Speaker Change: Mid single digits for leasing and <unk>.

Speaker Change: And that sourcing, but certainly.

Speaker Change: Those percentage growth.

Speaker Change: On our numbers for 25 and beyond.

Speaker Change: Impacts right.

Speaker Change: Alright, those 10 growth figures that I quoted are.

Speaker Change: Got it very helpful. Thank you guys.

Speaker Change: Influenced by current trade policy and.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Frederic Bastien from Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Ex conditions.

Speaker Change: You bet.

Speaker Change: I think it could it could be higher and it.

Speaker Change: It will just have to see how things roll out.

Frederic Bastien: Hi, good morning, everybody.

Frederic Bastien: I just wanted to touch on the engineering business and you're calling for a fairly healthy margin expansion.

Speaker Change: We would have expected we would've expected in capital markets, which did nicely in the fourth quarter. I think we were we were hoping it would be doing a little better than it did.

Frederic Bastien: Is.

Frederic Bastien: <unk> do you expect that to be linear over the next few quarters or is it would it be backend loaded in the back half just wanted to get some color as to the cadence of that margin improvement. Please.

Speaker Change: Things could change, but it's.

Speaker Change: It relates to interest rates it relates to asset valuations gaps between buyers and sellers. There's a lot of factors that could change, but when it changes it could make a material positive impact on our on our numbers for 25 and beyond.

Frederic Bastien: Yes, Fredric good questions. There is a little bit of seasonality in our engineering business saw a little bit of that in Q4, we'll see a little bit more in Q1.

Frederic Bastien: The seasonal peak for person engineering, our Q2 and Q3.

Frederic Bastien: So I think the margin.

Speaker Change: Got it very helpful. Thank you guys.

Frederic Bastien: We referenced youll start to see the full effect of that in Q2 and Q3 and also in Q4 going forward as we finished the year 2025.

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Frederic Bastien from Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Frederic Bastien: Okay and then.

Speaker Change: Hi, good morning, everybody.

Frederic Bastien: Just wanted to touch on the organic growth expectations that you have for that business.

Speaker Change: I just wanted to touch on the engineering business and you're calling for a fairly healthy margin expansion.

Frederic Bastien: Big comps, they're all kind of guiding for multiyear.

Frederic Bastien: Growth in the mid two.

Speaker Change: Do you expect that to be linear over the next few quarters or is it would it be backend loaded in the back half just wanted to get some color as to the cadence of that margin improvement.

Frederic Bastien: I'd say like anywhere from 5% to 8% is that sort of the ballpark that you're also aiming for.

Frederic Bastien: Yes, yes, absolutely.

Speaker Change: Yes, Frederic it's a good question there is a little bit of seasonality.

Speaker Change: Any any additional color on purpose segment I mean, the U S still in your business.

Speaker Change: Our engineering business saw a little bit of that in Q4, we'll see a little bit more.

Speaker Change: That would be comparable in other markets.

Speaker Change: In Q1.

Speaker Change: The seasonal peak for a person engineering, our Q2 and Q3.

Speaker Change: Yes, I think.

Speaker Change: The markets, we operate in particularly in the engineering space Canada.

Speaker Change: So I think the margin.

Speaker Change: That we referenced youll start to see the full effect of that in Q2 and Q3 and also in Q4 going forward as we finished the year 2025.

Speaker Change: Canada U S Australia.

Speaker Change: Have similar things going on with long term tailwind in <unk>.

Speaker Change: Infrastructure spending.

Speaker Change: Okay and then.

Speaker Change: There is a bit of noise about some of the.

Speaker Change: Just wanted to touch on the organic growth expectations that you have for that business.

Speaker Change: Government spending in the U S. Today, but we think that is going to be immaterial.

Speaker Change: The big comps, they're all kind of guiding for multiyear.

Speaker Change: Mike caused by the timing, but it shouldnt be material to to the long term trajectory.

Speaker Change: Growth in the mid to I.

Speaker Change: I would say like anywhere from 5% to 8% is that sort of the ballpark that you're also aiming for.

Speaker Change: Our business and.

Frederic Bastien: In this business as you know Frederic we have.

Speaker Change: Backlogs of work.

Speaker Change: Yeah, Yeah absolutely.

Christian Mayer: And clients.

Frederic Bastien: With significant.

Frederic Bastien: Ongoing needs or.

Speaker Change: Any any additional color on purpose segment.

Frederic Bastien: For services.

Frederic Bastien: <unk> technical services around.

Speaker Change: The U S still in your business.

Frederic Bastien: Their various real assets that they have.

Speaker Change: That would be comparable in other markets.

Frederic Bastien: Located across across the continent.

Speaker Change: Yes, I think.

Frederic Bastien: Australia, So we feel pretty good about.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: The markets, we operate in particularly in the engineering space.

Frederic Bastien: Our prospects.

Speaker Change: Thanks for that and thank you for breaking down the <unk>.

Speaker Change: Canada U S Australia.

Frederic Bastien: Net revenues it is helpful to us.

Speaker Change: Have similar things going on with long term tailwind.

Speaker Change: It's up.

Speaker Change: Thank you and our next question comes from the line of Debbie Liang from Stifel. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Infrastructure spending.

Speaker Change: There is a bit of noise about some of the.

Speaker Change: Government spending in the U S. Today, but we think that there's going to be immaterial.

Debbie Liang: Hey, good morning, everyone.

Debbie Liang: I wanted to ask first about the small architectural.

Speaker Change: Caused by the timing, but it shouldnt be material to <unk>.

Debbie Liang: Design acquisition that you did in December of empty too I recognize it's a small deal but I'm just curious if it's something you see potentially spooling up into a bigger platform in the years ahead or is it really just to augment the engineering services.

Speaker Change: The long term trajectory.

Speaker Change: Of our business and.

Speaker Change: In this business as you know Fredrick do we have.

Speaker Change: Backlogs of work.

Speaker Change: And clients.

Speaker Change: With significant.

Speaker Change: Ongoing needs or.

Debbie Liang: Okay.

Speaker Change: For services.

Debbie Liang: It's the augment the engineering services. This particular architecture firm that we acquired although it's.

Speaker Change: Rational technical services around there.

Speaker Change: Their various real assets that they have.

Speaker Change: Located across our across the continent.

Debbie Liang: Its framed as an architecture firm.

Speaker Change: Australia, So we feel pretty good.

Debbie Liang: Better than 50% of its revenue is more approach egg program management for.

Speaker Change: Our prospects.

Speaker Change: Thanks for that and thank you for breaking down the.

Debbie Liang: Or.

Speaker Change: Net revenues it's helpful to us.

Debbie Liang: For large.

Debbie Liang: Logistics providers.

Speaker Change: It's up.

Debbie Liang: Across the U S and a very complementary to the rest of our business and engineering as well so.

Speaker Change: Thank you and the next question comes from the line of Henry Liang from Stifel. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Hey, good morning, everyone.

Debbie Liang: I think what's happening in that entire sector is that.

Speaker Change: I wanted to ask first about the small architectural.

Debbie Liang: The definition of what engineering is continues to widen.

Speaker Change: Design acquisition that you did in December of MG two I recognize it's a small deal but I'm just curious if it's something you see potentially schooling up into a bigger platform in the years ahead or is it really just to augment the engineering services.

Debbie Liang: They become more multi disciplined professional services firms that do a variety of things and as we continue to grow and scale that business.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Debbie Liang: Seeing new.

Speaker Change: It's to augment the engineering services. This particular architecture firm that we acquired although it's.

Debbie Liang: <unk>.

Debbie Liang: Our services that you might call engineering services, but they are highly specialized in aviation.

Speaker Change: Its framed as an architecture firm.

Debbie Liang: Marine in and a variety of other things that are.

Speaker Change: Better than 50% of its revenue is more project program management for.

Debbie Liang: Non traditional engineering type firms. So that's the beauty of this sector.

For large.

Speaker Change: Logistics providers.

Debbie Liang: Segment, it is so wide and expanding and from our perspective global in nature.

Speaker Change: Across the U S and a very complementary to the rest of our business and engineering as well so.

Debbie Liang: With.

Speaker Change: I think what's happening in that entire sector.

Debbie Liang: And you've heard this before we have strong leadership teams globally. So we can easily execute when the opportunity is there.

Speaker Change: Is that.

Speaker Change: The definition of what engineering is continues to widen.

Speaker Change: They become more multi disciplined professional services firms that do a variety of things and as we continue to grow and scale that business.

Debbie Liang: And integrate as we have done so well over many many years. So we're quite excited about this segment.

Debbie Liang: That's one of the reasons why we started to split ourselves into three different operating segments and growth engines, because the opportunity in this particular, one in the engineered calling in engineering.

Speaker Change: Seeing new.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: The services that you might call engineering services, but they are highly specialized in aviation.

Debbie Liang: Is so wide and vast and <unk>.

Speaker Change: Marine and in a variety of other things that are.

Debbie Liang: We have aspirations of having it.

A a much bigger segment over the next five years.

Speaker Change: Non traditional engineering type firms. So that's the beauty of this sector.

Speaker Change: Got it okay. Good color. Thank you and then one other on investment management, you can give us some good color about what's going on there, but I often hear from investors about just the spectacular amounts of money being raised by some of the Super majors and I am curious from a competitive standpoint on fundraising.

Speaker Change: Segment, it is so wide and expanding and from our perspective global in nature.

Speaker Change: With.

Speaker Change: And you've heard this before we have strong leadership teams globally. So we can easily execute when the opportunity is there.

Speaker Change: And integrate as we have done so well over many many years. So we're quite excited about this segment.

Speaker Change: What differentiators are you seeing or what are you hearing from Lps about the appetite for our mid tier.

Speaker Change: That's one of the reasons why we started to split ourselves into three different operating segments and growth engines, because the opportunity in this particular, one in the engineered calling in engineering.

Speaker Change: Investment management partner, such as yourselves in just a few thoughts there.

Speaker Change: You raised an excellent point and.

Speaker Change: And I just want to reiterate some of the things that I've said and perhaps.

Speaker Change: Is so wide and vast and <unk>.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Little bit of a different way.

Speaker Change: We have aspirations of having it.

Speaker Change: Let's start with.

Speaker Change: A.

Speaker Change: Much bigger segment over the next five years.

Speaker Change: We're a mid market alternative asset managers so.

Speaker Change: We excel in mid market transactions as opposed to the the biggest types of transactions not that we can't do them, but.

Speaker Change: Got it okay. Good color. Thank you and then.

Speaker Change: One other on investment management, you can give us some good color about what's going on there, but I often hear from investors about just the spectacular amounts of money being raised by some of the Super majors.

Speaker Change: Our networks are such that and we believe that we can get better returns in the mid market than in the large markets. So so that's that's one thing that I would emphasize the other thing that.

Speaker Change: I'm curious from a competitive standpoint on fundraising.

Speaker Change: What differentiators are you seeing or what are you hearing from Lps about the appetite for.

Speaker Change: It has become clear as fund raising has softened.

Speaker Change: Mid tier.

Speaker Change: For everybody except for <unk>.

Speaker Change: Investment management partner, such as yourselves in just a few thoughts there.

Speaker Change: Except for the larger players who have other advantages.

Speaker Change: But you raised an excellent point and.

Speaker Change: So.

Speaker Change: So for example, some of the larger ones you hear about all of this money that they raised but theyre all or most of them are significantly in the insurance business. So as they raise capital. They include money that they're allocating for their insurance operations to their investment management operation. So.

Speaker Change: And I just want to reiterate some of the things that I've said and perhaps.

Speaker Change: In a little bit of a different way.

Speaker Change: Let's start with.

Speaker Change: We are a mid market alternative asset managers so.

Speaker Change: We excel in mid market transactions as opposed to the the biggest types of transactions not that we can't do them, but.

Speaker Change: It skews it skews the excuse the numbers, but in our.

Speaker Change: Our particular case and this is one of the reasons why we're accelerating our efforts.

Speaker Change: Our networks are such that <unk>.

Speaker Change: And we believe that we can get better returns in the mid market than in the large markets. So so that's that's one thing that I would emphasize the other thing that.

Speaker Change: You know our largest our largest division there is Harrison Street.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: It has become clear as fund raising has softened.

Speaker Change: But but we have three other very significant.

Speaker Change: For everybody, except for except for the larger players who have other advantages.

Speaker Change: Investment management and operations.

Speaker Change: All led by exceptional business leaders.

Speaker Change: No.

Speaker Change: All have independent fund raising.

Speaker Change: So for example, some of the larger ones you hear about all of this money that they raise but theyre all or most of them are significantly in the insurance business. So as they raise capital. They include money that they're allocating for their insurance operations to their investment management operation. So.

Speaker Change: <unk> teams.

Speaker Change: And they all approach similar Lps and institutions looking for capital.

Speaker Change: And so.

Speaker Change: Bringing some of that together some of that fund raising effort together.

Speaker Change: Under one leadership team for example.

Speaker Change: It skews it skews the excuse the numbers.

Speaker Change: Will give us we believe is significant.

Speaker Change: In our particular case and this is one of the reasons why we're accelerating our efforts.

Speaker Change: <unk> advantage.

Speaker Change: And is one of the reasons that's driving.

Speaker Change:

Speaker Change: This move too.

Speaker Change: You know our largest our largest division there is Harrison Street.

Speaker Change: Two to streamline this business and get it ready for.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: Phase two of its growth.

Speaker Change: But but we have three other very significant.

Speaker Change: Already a $100 billion in.

Speaker Change: Investment management and operations.

Speaker Change: Assets under management or just under.

Speaker Change: All led by exceptional business leaders.

Speaker Change: It has exceptional results for Lp's. It has tremendous leadership at every level our infrastructure business now has approximately 30% of our overall business, which is significant traditional real estate is.

Speaker Change: All have independent fund raising.

Speaker Change: Our teams.

Speaker Change: And they all approach similar.

Speaker Change: Lps and institutions looking for capital.

Speaker Change: And so Ah.

Speaker Change: Bringing some of that together some of that fund raising effort together.

Speaker Change: I think only 20 or 22% of our business. The rest of world is in alternatives. So we're in very very interesting.

Speaker Change: Under one leadership team for example.

Speaker Change: Will give us we believe a significant.

Speaker Change: Asset classes.

Speaker Change: <unk> advantage.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: We are.

Speaker Change: And as one of the reasons that's driving.

Speaker Change: To put it in to put it in.

Speaker Change: This move too.

Speaker Change: <unk> sort of way where company building right now.

Speaker Change: To streamline this business and get it ready for.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: We believe coming out of this we will have an exceptional platform.

Speaker Change: Phase two of its growth.

Speaker Change: That will be.

Speaker Change: Already a $100 billion in.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Assets under management or just under.

Speaker Change: Position beautifully to continue to accelerate its growth in the years to come and work site.

Speaker Change: It has exceptional results for Lps. It has tremendous leadership at every level our infrastructure business now has approximately 30% of our overall business, which is significant traditional real estate is.

Speaker Change: Excited about the steps that we're going to take having said that as Christian already alluded to it it's going to cost a little bit of money in 2025 to do that.

Speaker Change: And we're fully prepared to to make the changes necessary to position.

Speaker Change: I think only 20 or 22% of our business. The restaurant is in alternatives. So we're in very very interesting.

Speaker Change: Ourselves for the next phase of growth I hope that helps to provide some additional color that you are asking for.

Speaker Change: Asset classes.

Speaker Change: It's exciting stuff.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: And it's the type of types type of type of things that.

Speaker Change: We are.

Speaker Change: To put it in to put it in a more.

Speaker Change: <unk> sort of way where company building right now.

Speaker Change: Strong and bold leadership have to do in order to create value for shareholders over the long term as we've done for many years.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: We believe coming out of this we will have an exceptional platform.

Speaker Change: No that's great color. Thanks, Thanks, very much Jay.

Speaker Change: That will be.

Speaker Change: Back in the queue.

Speaker Change: Position.

Speaker Change: Position beautifully to continue to accelerate its growth in the years to come.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Julian <unk> from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: And we're excited about the steps that we're going to take having said that as Christian already alluded to it it's going to cost a little bit of money in 2025 to do that and we're fully prepared to to make the changes necessary to position ourselves ourselves for the next phase of growth.

Julian: Hi, Thank you for taking my question.

Speaker Change: Jay maybe still on investment management you mentioned.

Speaker Change: All of this streamlining and integration bolstering your optionality around the business I guess does this bring forward the feasibility of a spin off or a sale of the business and sort of over what timeframe are you sort of considering that you need to see sort of phase two of AUM growth and EBITDA growth before you would consider separating off.

Speaker Change: I hope that helps to provide some additional color that you are asking for.

Speaker Change: But it's exciting stuff.

Speaker Change: And it's the type of types type of type of things that.

Speaker Change: The business.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: The strong and global leadership have to do in order to create value for shareholders over the long term as we've done for many years.

Speaker Change: No decisions have been made around that but surely putting this together the way it does create that optionality, but yes, I think I think you're absolutely right.

Speaker Change: No that's great color. Thanks, Thanks, very much Jay I'll hop back into queue.

Speaker Change: We need to see momentum and.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Julian <unk> from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: And we need to see sort of the step up in revenue growth and profitability because as you know as new as new vintages hit the market new products hit the market and.

Julian: Hi, Thank you for taking my question.

Speaker Change: Jay maybe still on investment management, you mentioned, you know all of the streamlining and integration bolstering your optionality around the business I guess does this bring forward the feasibility of a spin off or a sale of the business and sort of over what timeframe are you sort of considering that you need to see.

Speaker Change: And we raised capital.

Speaker Change: That's that's really phase one phase two is let's put that capital to work in deals that are going to generate alpha and once we see that happening and we're comfortable that.

Speaker Change: Phase two of AUM growth and EBITDA growth before you would consider separating off the business.

Speaker Change: That.

Speaker Change: That we have the momentum we want.

Speaker Change: No decisions have been made around that but surely putting this together the way it does create that optionality, but yes, I think I think you're absolutely right.

Speaker Change: We can then decide what the next steps are the other thing and again I'm, probably going too far out of my skis here, but you'll understand.

Speaker Change: Is that.

Speaker Change: The optionality that it creates is not just.

Speaker Change: We need to see momentum.

Speaker Change: Potentially to spin this off but also to bring together other.

Speaker Change: And we need to see sort of the step up in revenue growth and profitability because as you know as new as new vintages hit the market new products hit the market and.

Speaker Change: Strategies that might be a gap in our.

Speaker Change: In our group of.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Our business group.

Speaker Change: And we raised capital.

Speaker Change: Group of strategies today. So for example, we have a very small that grew.

Speaker Change: That's that's really phase one phase two is let's put that capital to work in deals that are going to generate alpha and once we see that happening and we're comfortable that.

Speaker Change: Group debt.

Speaker Change: That is the.

Speaker Change: Is the the hottest product right now not sure that that is where we would necessarily want to be maybe two years ago. We would have wanted to be there.

Speaker Change: That.

Speaker Change: That we have the momentum we want.

Speaker Change: But it opens up lots of opportunity for others to join our Crusade to create this wonderful business that we have.

Speaker Change: We can then decide what the next steps are the other thing and again I'm, probably going too far out of my skis here, but you'll understand.

Speaker Change: We have had several conversations with with many people.

Speaker Change: Is that.

Speaker Change: The optionality that it creates not just.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: Potentially to spin this off.

Speaker Change: It's just the next step in the development of.

Speaker Change: But also to bring together other.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: This very interesting Midmarket alternative asset manager.

Speaker Change: Strategies that might be a gap in our.

Speaker Change: In our group of.

Speaker Change: Thank you that's really helpful. And then one more maybe on capital markets. When we think of this sort of drop off in growth versus.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Our business.

Speaker Change: Group of strategies today. So for example, we have a very small deck grew.

Speaker Change: Group debt.

Speaker Change: The relatively strong growth we saw in the fourth quarter versus a high single digit sort of baked into guidance for 2025 I.

Speaker Change: That is the.

Speaker Change: Is the the hottest product right now not sure that that is where we would necessarily want to be maybe two years ago. We would have wanted it to be there.

I guess, how much of that is just sort of uncertainty in.

Speaker Change: But it opens up lots of opportunity for others to join our Crusade to create this wonderful business that we have.

Speaker Change: Not knowing the unknowable versus how much of that is real sort of drop off youre seeing in current deal activity or have seen in December and January is sort of we got past some of this rate lock activity in September and October.

Speaker Change: We have had several conversations with with many people.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: Julian.

Speaker Change: It's just the next step in the development of.

Speaker Change: Deal activity.

Speaker Change: <unk> to be tracking reasonably well however.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: This very interesting mid.

Speaker Change: Mid market alternative asset manager.

Speaker Change: Got a.

Speaker Change: A lot of these macro things in the market.

Speaker Change: That are causing them.

Speaker Change: Thank you that's really helpful. And then one more maybe on capital markets. When we think of this sort of drop off in growth versus the.

Speaker Change: Certainly as we speak.

Speaker Change: And trade policy issues and of course foreign exchange is another one that's a pretty meaningful headwind.

Speaker Change: The relatively strong growth we saw in the fourth quarter versus a high single digit sort of baked into guidance for 2025 I.

Speaker Change: 2% to 3% growth just from that so we're trying to take a cautious approach here on the full year. We don't know how things are going to unwind, but we know we are well positioned we have a stronger and bigger team than we've ever had in our capital markets business.

Speaker Change: I guess, how much of that is just sort of uncertainty in.

Speaker Change: Not knowing the unknowable versus how much of that is real sort of drop off youre seeing in current deal activity or have seen in December and January as sort of we got past some of this rate lock activity in September and October.

Speaker Change: So and they are highly motivated and properly aligned to generate.

Speaker Change: And our revenues so we.

Speaker Change: We will see hopefully we outperform.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: The outlook that we put.

Speaker Change: Julien.

Speaker Change: In front of me.

Julien: Deal activity continues to be tracking reasonably well however.

Speaker Change: The other thing I would add to that as clients Walnut transact.

Speaker Change: Our professionals are this year now than ever our debt capital people are busier now than ever.

Speaker Change: Got a.

Julien: A lot of these macro things in the market.

Speaker Change: That are causing uncertainty.

Julien: As we speak.

Speaker Change:

Julien: And trade policy issues and of course foreign exchange is another one that's a pretty meaningful headwind.

Speaker Change: But theyre not ready.

Speaker Change: Some are already.

Speaker Change: But theres still a gap between buyers and sellers.

Julien: 2% to 3% growth just from that so we're trying to take a cautious approach here on the full year. We don't know how things are going to unwind, but we know we are well positioned.

Speaker Change: Interest rate fluctuations interest rate fluctuations longer term debt all of those things are impacting the decision. So we have.

Julien: Have a stronger and bigger team than we've ever had in our capital markets business.

Speaker Change: We have a buyer buyer group that is keen to transact.

Julien: So and they are highly motivated and properly aligned to generate.

Speaker Change: But.

Speaker Change: They're just not.

Julien: And our revenues so.

Speaker Change: Coming at the velocity that we were hoping that they were going to come now that could change very quickly every day.

Julien: We will see hopefully we outperformed.

Julien: These.

Julien: The outlook that we put.

Julien: I'm trying to get.

Speaker Change: We read things in the paper about.

Julien: The other thing I would add to that as clients want to transact.

Speaker Change: You know.

Speaker Change: The government's view on long term interest rates versus short term interest rates and so on so we'll see what happens.

Julien: They are our professionals are this year now than ever our debt capital people are busier now than ever.

Julien: <unk>.

Julien: But theyre not ready.

Speaker Change: We'll see what happens, but there is definitely a buying.

Some are ready.

Julien: But there is still a gap between buyers and sellers.

Speaker Change: Mentality out there right now and we're we're hoping it translates.

Julien: Interest rate fluctuation interest rate fluctuations longer term debt all of those things are impacting the decision. So we have.

Speaker Change: Thank you that's very helpful.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Jimmy <unk> from RBC capital markets. Please go ahead.

Julien: We have a buyer buyer group that is keen to transact but.

Speaker Change: Thank you sorry, just to follow up on the investment management again I thought your comments were interesting and I just wanted to clarify on the.

Julien: They're just not.

Julien: Coming at the velocity that we were hoping that they were going to come now that could change very quickly everyday.

Speaker Change: When you talked about the other optionality being sort of others joining the platform.

Julien: We read things in the paper about.

Speaker Change: Is the thinking that the fund raising and back office, our integrated it would be easier to do M&A for say.

Julien: You know.

Julien: The government's view on long term interest rates versus short term interest rates and so on so we'll see what happens.

Speaker Change: Mid market credit asset manager to latch on to the platform is that the thinking there.

Speaker Change: And then in terms of your investment that Youre currently doing today.

Julien: We'll see what happens, but there is definitely a buying.

Speaker Change: Are you also sort of hiring personnel.

Julien: Mentality out there right now and we're we're hoping and translates.

Speaker Change: They position the platform to launch new products, New strategies and for example, I saw Harrison Street clothes in a data center fund it because that that sort of thing investment that you're making into the platform.

Julien: Thank you that's very helpful.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Jimmy <unk> from RBC capital markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: So the answer to the second question is yes.

Jimmy: Thank you sorry, just to follow up on the investment management again, I thought your comment or interesting and I just wanted to clarify on the.

Speaker Change: New products.

Speaker Change: People to drive those new products Harrison Street as you say has been successful with their first data Center data Center data Center fund they have been in the data center business for many years, but it's been part of their open ended our closed ended funds. So this is not a new product for them, but it's a new dedicated funds.

Jimmy: When you talk about the other optionality being sort of others joining the platform.

Jimmy: Is the thinking that the fund raising and back office, our integrated it would be easier to do M&A for say.

Speaker Change: Which is which is which is interesting.

Jimmy: Mid market credit asset management to latch onto the platform is that the thinking there.

Speaker Change: All of the integration that I talk about the streamlining that I talk about has nothing to do really with <unk>.

And then in terms of your investment that Youre currently doing today.

Jimmy: Are you also sort of hiring personnel.

Speaker Change: <unk> acquisitions joining.

Jimmy: To position the platform to launch new products, New strategies and for example, I saw Harrison Street clothes in a data center funding because that that sort of thing investment that you're making into the platform.

Speaker Change: The platform.

Speaker Change: We should be doing that in a way.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: It is to set us up to be a stand alone.

Speaker Change: Business.

Jimmy: So the answer to the second question is yes.

Speaker Change: Right now there is four different platforms that operate essentially independently, which was what our strategy was in 2018, when we began putting together this wonderful asset that we have buried in colliers.

Jimmy: New products.

Jimmy: To drive those new products Harrison Street as you say has been successful with their first data Center data Center data Center fund they have been in the data center business for many years, but it's been part of their open ended our closed ended funds. So this is not a new product for them, but it's a new dedicated funds.

Speaker Change: We're really accelerating some of the Euronotes evolve.

Speaker Change: Most of the earn outs I think there's one left have all been extinguished one way or the other most of been paid.

Jimmy: Which is which is which is interesting.

Speaker Change: In full so people have achieved certain certain targets, but now is the time to to bring them together and to and to really capitalize on the synergies and the beauty is.

Jimmy: All of the integration that I talk about the streamlining that I talk about has nothing to do really with <unk>.

Jimmy: <unk> acquisitions joining.

Jimmy: The platform.

Speaker Change: In some respects the softness in the marketplace has caused each of the teams to be much more open minded about doing things together and so we're excited about lots of lots of discussion that's taking place.

Jimmy: We should be doing that in any way.

Jimmy: <unk>.

Jimmy: It is to set us up to be a stand alone.

Jimmy: Business.

Jimmy: Right now there is four different platforms that operate essentially independently, which was what our strategy was in 2018, when we began putting together this wonderful asset that we have buried in colliers.

Speaker Change: <unk> action.

Speaker Change: <unk> of things, which youll hear about in the coming months.

Speaker Change: And we're.

Speaker Change: We are hopeful that coming out of 25.

Jimmy: We're really accelerating some of the earn outs evolve.

Speaker Change: We will have a.

Jimmy: Most of the earn outs I think there's one left have all been extinguished one way or the other.

Speaker Change: A.

Speaker Change: Business that is.

Speaker Change: More I would say unified.

Jimmy: Most have been paid.

Jimmy: In full so people have achieved certain certain targets, but now is the time to.

Speaker Change: Than it currently is.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: And then my second question is just on the $5 billion to $8 billion of fund raising expected for 'twenty five.

Jimmy: Bring them together and to and to really capitalize on the synergies and the beauty is.

Jimmy: In some respects the softness in the marketplace has caused each of the teams to be much more open minded about doing things together and so we're excited about lots of lots of discussion that's taking place.

Speaker Change: What does your.

Speaker Change: When does your guidance assume.

Speaker Change: Five.

Christian Mayer: Well, that's Christians guidance I would say that the the teams themselves believe they will be raising more capital than that but thats the guidance.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Jimmy: We have action a number of things, which youll hear about in the coming months.

Speaker Change: Jimmy.

The numbers I quoted tie into our.

Speaker Change: Projections for revenue and EBITDA.

And.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Jimmy: We're hopeful that coming out of 25.

Speaker Change: Okay Alright.

Speaker Change: I'm sorry, one last thing you talked about the new vintage funds. There can you talk about like how many phones are being launched in the target size of this vintage fund.

Jimmy: We will have a.

Jimmy: A.

Jimmy: A business that is.

Jimmy: More I.

Jimmy: I would say unified than it currently is.

Speaker Change: I think there's there's five new five new vintage funds, meaning funds that have been in the marketplace. Before there are several others that are new products like the Harrison Street data Center Fund for example.

Jimmy: Okay.

Jimmy: And then my second question is just on the $5 billion to $8 billion of fund raising expected for 'twenty five.

Jimmy: <unk>.

Speaker Change: What does your.

Jimmy: When does your guidance assume.

Speaker Change: Basalt is created.

Jimmy: 25.

Jimmy: Well, that's Christians guidance I would say that the the teams themselves believe they will be raising more capital than that but thats the guidance.

Speaker Change: Its own data its own.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Solar.

Speaker Change: Solar and wind.

Speaker Change: Our strategy, which is which is new for them.

Speaker Change: Jimmy that the numbers I quoted tie into our.

Speaker Change: Also some infrastructure debt products that they're bringing to market early days.

Jimmy: Projections for revenue and EBITDA.

Jimmy: Okay.

Jimmy: Okay Alright.

Speaker Change: But.

Jimmy: I'm sorry.

Speaker Change: These are the types of products that that their Lps and other investors have been asking for this is expertise that they already have in house.

Jimmy: You talked about the new vintage funds. There can you talk about like how many phones are being launched in the target size of this vintage fund.

Speaker Change: And.

Jimmy: I think there's there's five new five new vintage funds, meaning funds that have been in the marketplace before.

Speaker Change: And they're natural extensions.

Speaker Change: To their businesses so.

Speaker Change: In the case of the.

Jimmy: There are several others that are new products like the Harrison Street data Center Fund for example.

Speaker Change: In the case of Rockwood as an example, there.

Speaker Change: They're expanding their multifamily.

Speaker Change: Their multifamily funds has been very successful with that.

Jimmy: Basalt is created.

Jimmy: Its own data its own.

Speaker Change: And also their debt.

Speaker Change: Primarily real estate debt.

Jimmy:

Jimmy: Solar.

Speaker Change: Initiatives at all.

Jimmy: Solar and wind.

Speaker Change: Our urging are up considerably over the past.

Jimmy: Our strategy, which is which is new for them and.

Speaker Change: 12 months.

Jimmy: And also some infrastructure debt products that they're bringing to market early days.

Speaker Change: So lots of lots of new things coming on stream.

Speaker Change: And then as you know the new things do take time to mature in the marketplace. So you want to get them out there there is generally.

Jimmy: But.

Jimmy: These are the types of products that that their Lps and other investors have been asking for this is expertise that they already have in house.

Speaker Change: Three or four Lps that are keenly interested in then.

Jimmy: And.

Jimmy: And they're natural extensions.

Speaker Change: We are we execute on a few transactions that hopefully build from there.

Jimmy: To their businesses so.

Jimmy: In the case of <unk>.

Jimmy: In the case of Rockwood as an example, there.

Speaker Change: Alright, thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Jimmy: They are expanding their multifamily.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Himanshu Gupta from Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

Jimmy: Their multifamily funds has been very successful with that.

Himanshu Gupta: Thank you and good morning.

Jimmy: And also their debt.

Speaker Change: So first on the real estate services, how do you mentioned mid single digit growth for this year.

Jimmy: Primarily real estate debt.

Jimmy: Initiatives at all.

Jimmy: Our urging are up considerably over the past.

Speaker Change: Does that already include <unk> <unk> negative impact from FX.

Jimmy: 12 months.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Jimmy: So lots of lots of new things coming on stream.

Speaker Change: Yes, you match with net that's net of the negative foreign exchange impact I think we're showing your numbers that.

Jimmy: And then as you know the new things do take time to mature in the marketplace. So you want to get them out there there is generally a.

Speaker Change: We expect to deliver based on todays prevailing FX rates.

Speaker Change: Got it okay. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Do you think you know real estate services.

Jimmy: Three or four Lps that are keenly interested in then.

Speaker Change: Segment, most impacted on the FX front.

Speaker Change: The lease then like engine with Sandler O'neill.

Jimmy: We are we execute on a few transactions and hopefully build from there.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: He meant you I am is the least impacted by foreign exchange.

Jimmy: Alright, thank you.

Speaker Change: The majority of the fund there are denominated in U S dollars and the fees are denominated in U S dollars.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question comes from the line of Himanshu Gupta from Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: But I would say that real estate services and engineering.

Himanshu Gupta: Thank you and good morning.

Speaker Change: Each have a.

Speaker Change: So first on the real estate services, how do you mentioned mid single digit growth for this year.

Speaker Change: 50% of their revenues in currencies other than U S. Dollars. So these are operations in Canada, Australia, Europe, the U K so.

Speaker Change: Does that already include <unk> <unk> negative impact from FX.

Speaker Change: These currencies are all.

Speaker Change: Yes, you match with net that's net of the negative foreign exchange impact I think we're showing your numbers that.

Being devalued relative to U S dollar today, and that's what we're talking about.

Speaker Change: We expect to deliver based on todays prevailing FX rates.

Speaker Change: Got it okay. That's helpful.

Speaker Change: And then on the capital markets and thanks for the commentary so far.

Speaker Change: Got it okay. Thank you and do you think those real estate services.

Speaker Change: But is it fair to say that it is becoming another a second half story.

Segments, most impacted on the FX front.

Speaker Change: Your assumption of high single digit is it mostly in the back half in terms of the company and maybe a slower first half.

Speaker Change: Probably the least and like in general.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: He meant you I am is the least impacted by foreign exchange.

Speaker Change: Well I mentioned the business historically.

Speaker Change: The majority of the fund there are denominated in U S dollars and the fees are denominated in U S dollars.

Speaker Change: Seasonal toward the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: And Thats just the way the industry operates so we're going to see outsized growth in the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: But I would say that real estate services and engineering.

Speaker Change: Each have a 50% of their revenues in currencies other than U S dollars.

Speaker Change: So.

Speaker Change: I think thats.

Speaker Change: Something to keep in mind here.

Speaker Change: Our operations in Canada, Australia, Europe, the U K so.

Speaker Change: Here we.

Speaker Change: We are cautiously optimistic that we will have capital markets growth in each quarter.

Speaker Change: These currencies are all.

Speaker Change: A meaningful amount.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Being devalued routes to the U S dollar today and that's what we're talking about.

Speaker Change: So we'll have to wait and see but that skewed towards the fourth quarter as a natural part of the business.

Speaker Change: Got it okay. That's helpful.

Speaker Change: Okay fair enough.

Speaker Change: And then on the capital markets.

Speaker Change: And then on.

Speaker Change: The investment management.

Thanks for the commentary so far.

Speaker Change: And I think $5 billion to $8 billion of new capital.

Speaker Change: Is it fair to say that it's becoming another a second half story.

Speaker Change: Do do you expect some reduction here as well.

Speaker Change: Your assumption of high single digit is it mostly in the back half in terms of the company and maybe a slower first half.

Speaker Change: <unk> funds to offset this kind of capital release.

Speaker Change: Mid single digit assumption.

Speaker Change: Well I mean, I mentioned the business historically as seasonal toward the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: I mentioned in our in our.

Speaker Change: Thinking here, we do expect our AUM.

Speaker Change: And that's just the way the industry operates so we're going to see outsized growth in the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: To increase through the year, we were just shy of 100 billion, we expect at some point during 2025.

Speaker Change: So.

I think that's.

Speaker Change: Something to keep in mind here.

Speaker Change: Meaningfully pop through that 100 to 100 billion level.

Speaker Change: Here we.

Speaker Change: We are cautiously optimistic that we will have capital markets growth in each quarter.

Speaker Change: So I think the fundraising will be additive.

Speaker Change: A meaningful amount.

Speaker Change: That of course.

Speaker Change: We'll have to wait and see but that skewed towards the fourth quarter as a natural part of the business.

Speaker Change: Mark to market activity, we expect will be positive and it was positive in almost all cases.

Speaker Change: Okay fair enough.

Speaker Change: In Q4, we expect.

Speaker Change: And then on the.

Speaker Change: At that too.

Speaker Change: Investment management.

Speaker Change: Those marks to level off and to increase continue to increase during 2025 and redemption activity are acute.

Speaker Change: And I think $5 billion to $8 billion of new capital.

Speaker Change: Do do you expect some reduction here as well you know any end of life funds to offset this kind of capital release.

Speaker Change: <unk> are getting smaller in terms of redemption activity, it's been modest.

Speaker Change: In 2024, but we expect it to be.

Speaker Change: Mid single digit assumption.

Speaker Change: More modest even in 2025, so all of those things I think point to growth.

Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean, I mentioned in our in our.

Speaker Change: Thinking here, we do expect our AUM to increase through the year. We were just shy of 100 billion. We expect at some point during 2025 to meaningfully.

Speaker Change: For 2025.

Speaker Change: Thank you that's very helpful.

Speaker Change: And maybe the last question is on the I mean, it looks like you know.

Speaker Change: On the <unk> you are looking at the M&A this headwind.

Speaker Change: Meaningfully pop through that the 100 to 100 billion level.

Speaker Change: <unk> investment management.

Speaker Change: The private market valuations trending for the kind of product with the kind of capabilities, you're looking to add in this platform.

Speaker Change: So I think the fundraising will be additive.

Speaker Change: That of course.

Speaker Change: Mark to market activity, we expect will be positive and it was positive in almost all cases.

Speaker Change: To Jay's asking about M&A and the investment management segment and also pricing for transactions in that segment, yes.

Speaker Change: In Q4, we expect.

Speaker Change: And at that too.

Speaker Change: Those marks to level off and to increase continue to increase during 2025 and redemption activity. Our queues are getting smaller in terms of redemption activity it's been modest.

Speaker Change: Yes, I'm, having trouble hearing I'm, having trouble hearing.

Speaker Change: Investment investment in the.

Speaker Change: <unk> opportunities in the investment management space.

Speaker Change: In 2024, but we expect it to be.

Speaker Change: Have been very very buoyant theres lots of people in the marketplace.

Speaker Change: More modest even in 2025, so all of those things I think point to growth.

Speaker Change: Looking to buy assets, making it very competitive forcing prices up.

Speaker Change: For 2025.

Speaker Change: Got it. Thank you that's very helpful.

And.

Speaker Change: And maybe the last question is on the I mean, it looks like you know.

Speaker Change: And Thats one of the reasons why we haven't pulled the trigger just yet on anything.

On the <unk> Youre looking at the M&A in the segment.

Speaker Change: Not to say that we wouldn't if the right opportunity presented itself, but as you can see.

Speaker Change: <unk> investment management.

Speaker Change: The private market valuations trending for the kind of product with the kind of capabilities, you're looking to add in this platform.

Speaker Change: Four or five years ago, you never saw the larger players.

Speaker Change: T J is asking about M&A and the investment management segment and also pricing for transactions in that segment.

In the market, making acquisitions.

Speaker Change: Over the past three or four years youre seeing almost all of them in the marketplace, making acquisitions. Some large some small insurance companies have now entered the enter the fray and so when I say, there's lots of people looking at our platform.

Speaker Change: Yes, I'm, having trouble hearing I'm, having trouble hearing.

Speaker Change:

Investment investment in the <unk>.

Speaker Change: Acquisition opportunities in the investment management space.

Speaker Change: Have been very very buoyant theres lots of people in the marketplace.

Speaker Change: Inquiring about our platform.

Speaker Change: Looking to buy assets, making it very competitive forcing prices up.

Speaker Change: I'm trying to.

Speaker Change: I am trying to downplay the level of interest that we see so.

Speaker Change: And.

Speaker Change: The segment is going through a transformation in some respects and.

Speaker Change: And that's one of the reasons why we haven't pulled the trigger just yet on anything.

Speaker Change: Not to say that we wouldn't if the right opportunity presented itself, but as you could see.

Speaker Change: We're very fortunate to be where we are and we're very fortunate to have started this in.

Speaker Change: Really in 2018.

Speaker Change: Four or five years ago, you never saw the larger players.

Speaker Change: To build a platform that we have and the teams that we have so.

Speaker Change: In the market, making acquisitions.

Speaker Change: We're really quite looking forward to.

Speaker Change: Over the past three or four years youre seeing almost all of them in the marketplace, making acquisitions. Some large some small insurance companies have now entered the entered the fray and so when I say, there's lots of people.

Speaker Change: The next few years to see how that.

Lays out.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you again super helpful and I'll turn it back.

Speaker Change: Thank you there are no further questions at this time I will now hand, the call back to Mr. Jay Hennick for any closing remarks.

Speaker Change: Looking at our platform and enquiring about our platform.

Speaker Change: Thank you very much operator, this was a full call obviously and.

Speaker Change: You know.

Speaker Change: I'm trying to.

Speaker Change: We appreciate you taking the time to participate and look forward to two.

Speaker Change: I am trying to downplay the level of interest that we see so.

Speaker Change: Two our media again.

The segment is going through a transformation in some respects.

Speaker Change: At the first quarter results up 2025, so thanks for participating.

Speaker Change: We're very fortunate to be where we are and we're very fortunate to have started this in.

Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation.

Speaker Change: It really in 2018.

Speaker Change: And have a nice day.

Speaker Change: To build the platform that we have and the teams that we have so.

Speaker Change: We're really quite looking forward to.

Speaker Change: The next few years.

Speaker Change: To see how that plays out.

Speaker Change: Thank you Hannah and Super helpful and I'll turn it back.

Speaker Change: Thank you there are no further questions at this time I will now hand, the call back to Mr. Jay Hennick for any closing remarks.

Jay Hennick: Thank you very much operator, this was a full call obviously and.

Speaker Change: We appreciate you taking the time to participate and look forward to.

Jay Hennick: Two media again.

Jay Hennick: The first quarter results of 2025, so thanks for participating.

Jay Hennick: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation.

Jay Hennick: And have a nice thing.

Jay Hennick: [noise].