Q4 2024 Amkor Technology Inc Earnings Call
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Diego: Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Amcor Technology fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call. My name is Diego, and I will be your conference facilitator today.
Diego: At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's remarks, we will conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the call over to Jennifer Jue, Head of Investor Relations, Mississippi.
Jennifer Jue: Thank you, Operator. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for AMCOR's fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call.
Jennifer Jue: Joining me today are Giel Rutten, our Chief Executive Officer, and Megan Faust, our Chief Financial Officer.
Jennifer Jue: Our earnings press release was filed with the SEC this afternoon and is available on the Investor Relations page of our website, along with the presentation slides that accompany today's call.
Jennifer Jue: During this presentation we will use non-GAAP financial measures and you can find the reconciliation to the US GAAP equivalent on our website.
Jennifer Jue: We will make forward-looking statements about our expectations for AMCOR's future performance based on the environment as we currently see it. Of course, actual results could differ.
Jennifer Jue: Please refer to our press release and SEC filings for information on risk factors, uncertainties, and exceptions that could cause actual results to differ materially from these expectations.
Jennifer Jue: Please note that the financial results discussed today are preliminary, and final data will be included in our Form 10-K. And now, I'll turn the call over to Giel.
Giel Rutten: Thank you, Jennifer. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining the call today.
Giel Rutten: MCOR delivered fourth quarter results in line with guidance with revenue of 1.63 billion dollars and EPS of 43 cents.
Giel Rutten: For the full year 2024, revenue was $6.3 billion, a 3% decline from the previous year.
Giel Rutten: The year met our expectations, except for the weakness in the automotive and industrial end markets, where we had expected improvement in the second half.
During the year we achieved several significant milestones.
Giel Rutten: Advanced Packaging Revenue increased 3% year-over-year and Advanced SAP reached a record of $3.1 billion.
Giel Rutten: The computing end market reached a record of 1.2 billion dollars driven by growth in ARM-based PCs and 2.5D technology for AI GPUs.
We solidified our U.S. manufacturing strategy.
Giel Rutten: and secured $407 million in SHIPS funding to support our planned Arizona facility.
Giel Rutten: and we expanded our partnership with TSMC to support advanced packaging in the U.S. and with Infineon to support power modules in Europe.
Giel Rutten: Despite the dynamic macro environment and short-term challenges, we remain focused on strengthening our technology leadership in advanced packaging, expanding our global footprint, and partnering with lead customers in growth markets.
Now let me discuss each of our end markets.
Giel Rutten: In the fourth quarter, revenue in our communications end market declined 25% sequentially due to a change in build pattern for new iOS phones and temporarily lower content in the latest iOS phone due to an SIP socket that we are not participating in.
Giel Rutten: This socket gap drove the 7% decline in our total communication revenue for the full year 2024. The iOS revenue decline was slightly offset by Android growth of 9% for the full year.
Giel Rutten: For 2025, we expect our communications business to be muted in the first half, followed by above seasonal growth in the second half.
Giel Rutten: We are closely collaborating with our strategic customers and are confident in recovering the SIP socket in the next generation iOS phones.
Giel Rutten: We expect continued improvement in Android revenue and are projecting total communication revenue to be flat year on year.
Giel Rutten: Revenue in our computing end market increased 13% sequentially and 16% for the full year to record levels.
Giel Rutten: Strong demand for AI GPUs and ramping programs supporting ARM-based PCs led the growth, while weakness in traditional servers and networking dampened upside.
Giel Rutten: Within the past few weeks, dynamics within the AI data center supply chain have impacted our 2.5D growth expectations for the year.
Giel Rutten: The accelerated transition to a new AI GPU product family together with new trade restrictions have resulted in an adjusted near-term outlook.
Giel Rutten: We expect to continue running Volume for 2.5D AI GPUs, but at a lower level than previously anticipated.
Giel Rutten: As we navigate these dynamics, we remain confident in our project pipeline, including our new 2NRFD customer that continues to ramp volume, and our first programs on the next generation RDL interposer technology, which started low volume production.
Giel Rutten: The uncertain geopolitical environments limit visibility for the full year. However, we expect our computing end market to show mild growth for the full year.
Giel Rutten: In the fourth quarter, revenue in our automotive and industrial end market declined 8% sequentially, missing our flat to mild growth expectations.
Giel Rutten: For the full year, the automotive and industrial end market declined 16% compared to 23% and we have experienced seven quarters in a row of year-on-year declines.
Giel Rutten: From our peak in 2022, revenue has declined nearly $300 million, primarily due to declines in mainstream products.
Giel Rutten: For 2025, we expect advanced packaging programs in automotive to grow in the mid-teams percent and remain optimistic about the recovery in our mainstream portfolio, although the timing is uncertain.
Giel Rutten: Overall, we anticipate softness in the first part of the year and mild full year growth.
Giel Rutten: This program helped to offset headwinds in other traditional consumer applications. Revenue in the fourth quarter remained relatively steady after a steep ramp in the third quarter.
Giel Rutten: For 2025, we expect mild growth, driven by a full year of production for the year-able program and modest improvements in traditional consumer programs.
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Now I will turn to our first quarter outlook.
Giel Rutten: For Q1 we expect revenue of $1.275 billion, reflecting a year-on-year decline of 7%, primarily due to the temporary socket gap in the current iOS phones.
Giel Rutten: For full year 2025, we foresee a muted first half, followed by a strong second half, driven by the content recovery in the next generation of iOS phones.
Giel Rutten: With each of the end markets expected to be flat to slightly up, we expect total company revenue to be flat to low single digit growth for the year.
Giel Rutten: With that, I will now turn the call over to Megan to provide more detailed financial information.
Megan Faust: Thank you, Giel, and good afternoon, everyone. Fourth quarter financial performance met expectations with all financial metrics within our guidance range.
Megan Faust: Revenue of 1.63 billion dollars declined more than seasonal sequentially, primarily due to our communications and markets, as well as prolonged weakness in the automotive and industrial end market.
Megan Faust: Gross margin increased 50 basis points from Q3, primarily due to a change in product mix with a lower proportion of advanced SIP.
Megan Faust: Our gross margin is also being impacted by the ramp of our new Vietnam facility. In Q4, this had approximately 80 basis points of burden.
Megan Faust: Operating expenses for the quarter came in lower than expected, at $112 million, partially due to lower incentive compensation.
Megan Faust: Operating income was $134 million, and operating income margin was 8.3%.
Megan Faust: Favorable foreign currency partially offset higher-than-expected taxes, resulting in net income for the fourth quarter of $106 million, or EPS of 43 cents.
Megan Faust: Gross profit for the year was $933 million and gross margin was 14.8 percent.
Operating income was $438 million, and operating margin was 6.9%.
Our full year effective tax rate was 17.5%.
Megan Faust: Net income for the year was $354 million, resulting in EPS of $1.43.
EBITDA was $1.1 billion and EBITDA margin was 17.3 percent.
Megan Faust: AMCOR has exhibited strict financial discipline. CapEx for 2024 was $744 million and 11.8% capital intensity.
Megan Faust: We focused our investments on expanding capacity for 2.5D in Korea and for advanced SIP in both Korea and Vietnam.
Megan Faust: Free cash flow for the full year was $359 million, demonstrating efficient working capital management and operational performance.
Megan Faust: We ended the year with $1.6 billion of cash and short-term investments and total liquidity of $2.3 billion.
Megan Faust: Our total debt as of the end of the quarter is $1.2 billion and our debt to EBITDA ratio is 1.1 times.
Megan Faust: Moving on to our first quarter outlook, we anticipate revenue of approximately $1.275 billion, representing a year-on-year decline of 7%.
Megan Faust: With the underutilization expected across our factories and the burden associated with our new Vietnam facility as it ramps scale, profitability will be constrained. We expect gross margin to be between 10 and 13 percent.
We expect Q1 operating expenses of around $120 million.
Megan Faust: We expect our full year effective tax rate to increase to around 20% due to new global tax regulations.
Megan Faust: Our CAPEX forecast for 2025 is $850 million, of which 5-10% is estimated for our new Advanced Packaging Facility in Arizona.
Megan Faust: Amcor has demonstrated resilience in this dynamic environment, and we are proud of the milestones we reached in 2024.
Megan Faust: Strengthened our technology portfolio and advanced packaging for 2.5D and advanced SIP.
Megan Faust: With that, we will now open the call up for your questions. Operator?
Speaker Change: Thank you, and at this time we will be conducting the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue.
Speaker Change: You may press star 2 if you would like to remove your question from the queue for participants using speaker equipment It may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys Once again to ask a question press star 1 on your telephone keypad
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Speaker Change: Our first question comes from Toshiha Harry with Goldman Sachs. Please state your question.
Toshiha Harry: Hi, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking the question. Maybe one for Giel on the communications business. You talked a little bit about the lower content.
Toshiha Harry: in sort of the iPhone and the impact it had. And then I guess your expectation for that to come back later in 2025. I guess what – well, first of all, I guess if you can clarify or confirm how significant the hit was from that in the most recent quarter, that would be really helpful. And then what gives you the confidence that you or your partner can indeed sort of regain that content in the back half of the year?
Thanks.
Toshiha Harry: First of all, the confidence to get back into this slot in the next generation.
Toshiha Harry: I mean, we have a longstanding track record with this lead customer of MCOR in bringing new technology and new products to market.
Toshiha Harry: We started the development of this new socket for next-generation phone generation in already 2024.
Toshiha Harry: It was a strategic decision by the end customer to do it the way that we decided to do it because it was an important, let's say, changeover in their architecture of the phone. So in that sense, we have a clear line on site.
It is, you know, a significant impact.
So let's see the Q4 impact.
would be roughly... Megan, can you help here?
Toshiha Harry: The Socket Gap was the lesser of the two. As we look at Q1, I think the way to think about it is, you know, with our year-over-year decline of 7% as our guide for Q1, the biggest driver of that is communications, and so that's where the Socket Gap is.
is notable, is in the year-over-year decline.
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Speaker Change: Got it. Thank you so much. And then as my follow-up, maybe one for Megan on the gross margin side of things. So you're guiding to 10 to 13% in Q1. You went through the puts and takes as it pertains to Q1, but how should we think about the trajectory into Q2 and the back half?
Speaker Change: Vietnam I assume stays a headwind, but as volumes grow and mix evolves, how should we think about gross margins progressing as you move throughout 25? Thank you.
Speaker Change: Sure, so yeah, for our Q1 guide, that's going to follow a pretty traditional incremental flow through as far as the math is concerned with our range.
that we've provided for Q1.
Speaker Change: As we look out towards the remaining part of the year, I would still say our financial model does support the 30-40% incremental flow-through. This has evolved from our previous incremental flow-through of 40-50% given the lift in material content that's happened over the past 5 years.
Speaker Change: Back in 2019, when we came out with that original model, we were at 40% material content, and today we're at 55%. So I would say 30 to 40% is now the better financial model, given our profile.
As we look towards 2025,
Speaker Change: The way to think about that would be the same incremental flow-through.
from a Vietnam perspective.
Speaker Change: That will have around a hundred basis points burden in Q1. So that's incorporated into our guide
Speaker Change: That is going to gradually reduce over the course of the year, such that as we exit 2025, we will be at break-even operating income. So that will have less of an impact on the full year.
Thank you for watching!
Speaker Change: Thank you. And our next question comes from Joe Moore with Morgan Stanley. Please state your question.
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Joe Moore: Great, thank you. I guess you talked about autos eroding over the course of the quarter, but you also talked about your optimism for 2025. Can you just give us a sense for what gives you the confidence in that growth? What are the specific package types that, you know, can offset the macro weakness that we're seeing?
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Giel Rutten: Joe, hi. This is Giel. You were referring specifically to one specific market.
Yes, to automotive.
to automotive.
Giel Rutten: Well, the automotive market in the fourth quarter disappointed us because we were expecting a single-digit improvement in the fourth quarter, but it came in significantly lower, at 6% below our previous quarter.
So that's disappointing.
Giel Rutten: Now, going forward, if we take our project pipeline in automotive, we see strength in the advanced packaging for automotive, specifically for ADAS devices.
in-car networking and infotainment.
Giel Rutten: you know, where we have strength with, you know, with the, let's say newcomers as well as the incumbent player.
for Advanced Packaging.
Giel Rutten: So in that sense, we have a strong project pipeline and that builds confidence that 2025 will be, let's say, a flat year in automotive.
Giel Rutten: For our mainstream products, now it's the line of sight is
Giel Rutten: Not that clear, you know, it declined significantly over last year But we believe that we reached a trough. That's at least the feedback that we're getting from our customers
Giel Rutten: and we expect a gradual improvement for our mainstream portfolio, although visibility is still very vague.
Thank you for watching!
Very helpful, thank you.
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Speaker Change: Your next question comes from Peter Peng with JPMorgan Chase & Company. Please state your question.
Peter Peng: Thanks for taking my question. Maybe if you can spend a little bit of time talking about the dynamic at your marquee customer.
Peter Peng: And then more importantly, you know, as that customer, you know, ramps down given the Blackwell rollout, how are you expecting to kind of backfill that with either maybe expanding more customers, etc.? Maybe if you can just spend some time on that dynamic.
Peter Peng: Yeah, good point Peter. Let me try to explain to you the dynamics here. I mean in the broader sense in the compute market we see that as an important market for us with a significant opportunity for growth over the next couple of years.
Peter Peng: So, in the AI market, specifically for AI GPUs, we still see, let's say, the second generation being introduced now.
Peter Peng: specifically related by the accelerated ramp of the next-generation GPU family.
And then the second element there is the China restrictions.
Peter Peng: that came in by the end of 2024 and that had impact on several devices that we were planning to ramp in the first quarter and the second quarter.
Peter Peng: Now, next to these, I would call it short-term dynamics, we are confident in our overall project and customer pipeline.
Peter Peng: We are ramping with our second customer in two and a half days in the first quarter. That's ongoing.
We're also expanding our technology portfolio to RDL-based technologies.
Peter Peng: We have two devices ramping up, of which one is already in production in the first quarter.
And we have a strong project pipeline going forward in...
in further, let's say, AI-based technology.
Peter Peng: Now, if we look to the next generation GPU devices that are currently in a bridge-based technology.
Peter Peng: We consider us their technology follower, not a technology leader, and we work on that technology in R&D, and we have several engagements with more than one customer to bring that into production in 2026.
Peter Peng: And then maybe we can just talk about how you're thinking about OPEC spending through the year, just given the more muted revenue expectations.
Thank you.
Peter Peng: Q4 OPEX did come in lower than we expected. As we're looking at Q1, we're expecting that to increase, mainly for your seasonal reset of incentive comp.
Peter Peng: We are going to continue to invest in our technology roadmaps.
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Great, thank you guys.
Thank you for watching!
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Craig Ellis with B Riley Securities. Please stay quiet.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you very much for taking the question.
Speaker Change: versus GPU based systems. And as you look at 2025, how would you expect those different opportunities to contribute to the growth that you expect?
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Speaker Change: We would consider that the major part of the growth that we have seen in 2024.
Speaker Change: that was within the 2.5D technology and there we invested in, we ramped that.
Speaker Change: and we were able to quadruple that revenue for 2.5D in 2024 according to plan. So that was the major part of our record year in our compute market.
Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
Speaker Change: Now we see the debt market still continue as a good potential going forward, diversifying our customer base.
Speaker Change: diversifying our technology base and we have a significant install base on capacity and capabilities in order to diversify our business beyond the current customer base.
Speaker Change: If we take the segment of AI-based PCs, then we have a couple of customers that are introducing new products there. Some customers are more successful than others, but I believe that that's still an emerging segment where we are well positioned.
Fabless companies, so in that sense...
We see further growth going forward.
Speaker Change: certainly when AI moves to edge devices like PCs, but ultimately also to smartphones.
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Speaker Change: That's real helpful, Color Heel. And the follow-up question is one that's less a modeling question and more a new program question. So in 2024 it was impressive because the company had ARM-based PCs and AI and a very good wearables program. And those benefited multiple segments. And as you look at –
2025.
Speaker Change: Clearly there's an opportunity to recapture some SIP share and it seems like there's the foundation for
Speaker Change: continued growth in AI but as we look at the company specific things that will benefit Amcor, how would you set that list and if you were to rank order it how would it look 1 through 4, 1 through 5? Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah, let me scan through the opportunities as we see it, Greg. I mean, let's start with communication. We already covered that.
Speaker Change: regaining the SIP socket in the next generation phone is critical.
that will not initiate growth, we expect a flat.
Speaker Change: communication year, although we see some more recovery in the Android side, but we currently plan for a flat communication year.
Speaker Change: If we take automotive, in the previous, let's say, question, I covered that. We definitely see upsides on the advanced products in automotive.
both for ADAS as well as infotainment.
Speaker Change: and that will refresh that pipeline to the market and that will materialize in revenue in 2025.
Speaker Change: Mainstream products and automotive stays a little bit vague and that also includes our power and power modules going into that market.
Speaker Change: The EV market is a little bit soft at this moment, but there is definitely hope and feedback from customers that even on the mature side of automotive, we will see recovery during the year.
Speaker Change: Not a breakthrough, but at least, you know, we now have seen almost three years in a row of decline and we hope that we see a flat to slightly up here in in 25.
Speaker Change: Now then move into the compute segment, you know, we have many, let's say,
Let's say opportunities going forward.
there is also a significant uncertainty.
because this is the segment that is being...
Speaker Change: hit by recent China restrictions. We have a strong, we had a strong pipeline there and currently we discount these devices because of that uncertainty. We didn't want to include that in our planning.
Speaker Change: on the 2NRFD and also on the RDL-based technology, we definitely see upsides.
Speaker Change: but we are conservative to call that a growth year. You know, we currently see this as a, let's say, slightly up, worst case, a flat year for 2025. And last but not least, the consumer market.
Speaker Change: We expect that the current program will run for the full year 2025.
Speaker Change: and that will contribute to a flat to slightly up here.
Speaker Change: Again, also significant uncertainty on the more mature products still, so we're, you know, we're guiding quite conservative there for the full year.
Speaker Change: and we take a conservative look. So all in all, you know, there are no breakout opportunities, but I believe I would say we have a solid project pipeline going into all the market segments.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and your next question comes from Randy Abrams with UBS. Please state your question.
Randy Abrams: Yes, hi there, thank you. In my first question I actually wanted to touch on the CAPEX where you're guiding to 825 and I know you said you have
Speaker Change: some for Vietnam, but given that conservative outlook, maybe go through on the remaining piece where the allocation of spend and priorities between tests, assembly, or any other special investment, I think you mentioned on the power module side.
Speaker Change: I'll leave that to Megan to cover this, Randy. Thanks for the question.
Speaker Change: Hi, Randy. Our target is $850 million. I think I heard you say $825 million. That's right.
Speaker Change: I wanted to clarify that. And so, you know, how that rolls out, about 70% of that is intended for capacity and capability, and the primary areas are in the high-performance computing market.
Speaker Change: We're intending to spend similar dollars on our high-performance computing for leading-edge technology, so the next generation of RDL and bridge technology as we work on those next generations.
Speaker Change: The second area would be advanced SIP, and then the third largest would be test.
Speaker Change: So following that capacity and capability, we have about 25% on facilities and construction. And that's a little bit more elevated than what our historical intensity would be, but that is because we're allocating about 5 to 10% for our Arizona facility.
Speaker Change: And then the last 5% is on quality and R&D. We have earmarked certain investments for quality, including automation in our factories.
Speaker Change: is tied to certain milestones, and so the timing of receipt for those is uncertain and is not incorporated into those guides. We do not expect to receive material grants in 2025 given those milestones.
Speaker Change: Okay, no good color on that. I actually wanted us to ask because of a lot of commentary in the market there's on tariffs affecting a few areas.
Speaker Change: First, if you're seeing any pull-ins, there's been some talk on the consumer side, but also given Mexico, Canada, like if anything happening on automotive, so that's one, if it's affecting timing of shipments.
Speaker Change: Second is on ships. There's some talk about whether Taiwan gets a tariff.
Speaker Change: and if you're seeing any potential customer engagement or swing where that's a way to bypass tariff if you shift assembly. So curious on geographic shift if there could be any swings for your business from that side too.
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Well, Randy, let me make a few remarks on tariffs. I mean, currently the impact is a little bit vague still, because the tariff situation is not really well defined yet.
Speaker Change: short-term we don't expect a significant impact. I mean the impact that you will refer to in automotive
Speaker Change: We currently don't see that, we believe that there is still...
Speaker Change: So I don't expect any constraints there driving short-term impact on prices.
Speaker Change: Now with respect to Taiwan, it's difficult to say. I cannot comment on that, but I didn't hear any specifics here.
Speaker Change: On the other hand, you know, what we saw is a significant impact on the latest
Speaker Change: are now on the list of limited or restricted exported products.
Speaker Change: Also, we see that in the OSET environment and in the foundry environment,
Speaker Change: companies and designers, design companies and approved OSET and that took quite a bit of work on our side to
Speaker Change: to look at the compliance, but I feel that could, to some extent, work in our benefit, although there is still uncertainty going forward.
Randy Abrams: So, a bit of uncertainty and difficult to say what the specifics will be, Randy.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Your next question comes from Charles Shye with Needham. Please state your question.
Thank you for watching!
Speaker Change: Charles Chey from Needham, your line is open, you can unmute yourself.
Thank you for watching!
I move on. Go ahead.
I want to go back to the four-year outlook.
Speaker Change: You guys are expecting probably flat up a little bit for the full year, given the slow start to the year, right, the Q1 down, 7% young year.
Speaker Change: Might if you help us a little bit more here, what is the normal seasonality, like half of a half, maybe we can use that metric?
Speaker Change: And what's the expectation for that particular metric that would inform us that you're going to have above seasonal growth in the second half of the year?
Megan Faust: Yes, Charles, that's a good question. Let me ask Megan to give you more details to increase your level of understanding.
Megan Faust: Hi Charles. So our seasonal pattern for the growth or for a typical year would be 45% in the first half and 55% in the second half.
Megan Faust: And so given the dynamics happening within the communications market, where our first half will be muted, and I would say lower than seasonal, and with our confidence that we will regain that socket, it's going to amplify that first half, second half.
Megan Faust: I do want to you know we've already given the you know flat to low single digit growth for the full year so as you're looking at those models that will require the second half growth to be
Jennifer Jue, Giel Rutten
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Megan Faust: So, Giel, I think you mentioned you do have the line of sight for that particular socket to be
Speaker Change: definitely going to this year's model because, well, we did have a little bit of surprise last year, right, heading to Q3 and Q4, and what's your confidence level right now for regaining that particular socket?
Speaker Change: The confidence level is high, Charles. I already mentioned before that we have a long-standing track record with this customer to bring new technology to the market. There's a clear cooperation model with strict milestones that are identified.
in the third quarter, that timing and that plan.
Speaker Change: So, as I mentioned before, this was a strategic decision of the end customer, with confidence.
Speaker Change: And all the indications that we get with respect to project execution as well as mass production milestones are pointing that, you know, that we are ready for Q3-25 ramp for this product.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for watching!
Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Tom Diffley with D.A. Davidson. Please state your question.
Tom Diffley: Yeah, good afternoon. I appreciate the chance to ask a question. Giel, I wanted to talk a little bit more about the high-end compute market.
Tom Diffley: You know, obviously you ramped up very quickly over the last year and a half, your 2.5T capability or capacity. And I'm curious, when you look at moving to the next generation package type,
Tom Diffley: Is that going to require just an upgrade to your existing capacity or is that a completely new capacity and then you have to backfill the old 2.5D with new clients?
Speaker Change: That's a good question, Tom. Actually, we mentioned in our last earnings call that the investments that we did in 2024 was to a high extent fungible capacity.
Speaker Change: And that means that it can be used, in a broader sense, for wafer-based technologies, and we include there 2.5D, we include RDL-based technologies.
Speaker Change: and in the next step also in, let's say, a bridge technology for next-generation devices. So it's a fungible technology, and we prove that also now that, you know, with limited volumes...
Speaker Change: or we adjusted our volumes for 2.5D. It enables us to ram the devices that we currently have in RDL-based technology. We rammed that up in parallel. So...
Speaker Change: That's how we see it. I mentioned before we have a broad project pipeline. We're also seeing the opportunity in the eight AI data centers.
to broaden beyond.