Q3 2025 ePlus inc Earnings Call
Operator: Good day, ladies and gentlemen.
Good day, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Epos earnings first of all its conference call. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded I would like to introduce your host for today's conference. Mr. Kley Parkhurst Senior Vice President Sir you may begin.
Operator: Welcome to the ePlus Earnings Results Conference Call. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.
Kley Parkhurst: I would like to introduce your host for today's conference, Mr. Kley Parkhurst, Senior Vice President.
Operator: Sir, you may begin.
Kley Parkhurst: Thank you for joining us today. On the call is Mark Marron, CEO and President, Darren Raguel, COO and President of ePlus Technology, Elaine Marion, CFO and Erica Stoecker, General Counsel.
Thank you for joining us today on the call is Mark Marron, CEO and President Darren <unk>, COO and president of <unk> plus technology.
Elaine Marion CFO, and Erica Stoecker General counsel.
Kley Parkhurst: I want to take a moment to remind you that the statements we make this afternoon that are not historical facts may be deemed to be forward-looking statements. and our baseline management's current plans, estimates, and projections. Actual and anticipated future results may vary materially due to certain risks and uncertainties detailed in the earnings release we issued this afternoon and our periodic filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our most recent annual report on Form 10-K, quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, and other documents we might file with the FCC.
Wanted to take a moment to remind you that the statements. We make this afternoon that are not historical facts may be deemed to be forward looking statements and are based on management's current plans estimates and projections.
Actual and anticipated future results may vary materially due to certain risks and uncertainties detailed in the earnings release, we issued this afternoon and our periodic filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our most recent annual report on Form 10-K quarterly reports on Form 10-Q and in other documents we have.
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Kley Parkhurst: Any forward-looking statement speaks only as of the date of which the statement is made, and the company undertakes no responsibility to update any of these forward-looking statements in light of new information, future events, or otherwise.
Any forward looking statement speaks only as of the date of which the statement is made and the company undertakes no responsibility to update any of these forward looking statements in light of new information future events or otherwise.
Kley Parkhurst: In addition, we will be using certain non-GAAP measures during the call. We have included a GAAP financial reconciliation in our earnings release, which is posted on the Investor Information section of our website at www.ePlus.com.
In addition, we will be using certain non-GAAP measures. During the call. We have included a GAAP financial reconciliation in our earnings release, which is posted on the Investor information section of our website at www dot the plus icon.
Mark Marron: I'd now like to turn the call over to Mark Marron.
Mark Marron: I'd now like to turn the call over to Mark Marron Mark.
Mark Marron: Mark? Thank you, Kley.
Mark Marron: Thank you clay good afternoon, everyone and thank you for joining us I will give a recap of our fiscal third quarter 2025 highlights and an update on our business overall the lane will follow with a discussion of our financial results and I will then conclude with an update of our current outlook.
Mark Marron: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. I will give a recap of our fiscal third quarter 2025 highlights and an update on our business overall. Elaine will follow with the discussion of our financial results, and I will then conclude with an update of our current outlook. We continue to execute on our strategic priorities of expanding our footprint and customer base and broadening our suite of solution and service offerings as we are investing in the most promising growth areas. We continue to see the evolution of our industry transition to our more ratable consumption and subscription-based model, which has impacted the comparability of our quarterly results.
Mark Marron: We continue to execute on our strategic priorities of expanding our footprint and customer base and broadening our suite of solution and service offerings. As we are investing in the most promising growth areas. We continue to see the evolution of our industry transition to a more ratable consumption and subscription based model, which has impacted the comparability.
Mark Marron: <unk> of our quarterly results.
Mark Marron: As noted last quarter, our revenue trends reflects an acceleration of gross billings recorded on a net-based... as well as a move towards more ratable revenue models. Software subscriptions orders have continued to increase year-over-year with these deals being recognized on a net basis or routably. While this evolution helped to contribute to a flat year-over-year revenue, we delivered solid growth in gross billings, gross profit, and gross margin. It is also a solid forward indicator for growth with our subscription orders up 51.4% year over year, accounting for almost 46% of our open orders currently compared to 31.7% last year and growth of over 100 million.
Mark Marron: As noted last quarter, our revenue trends reflects an acceleration of gross billings recorded on a net basis as well as a move towards more ratable revenue models.
Mark Marron: If were subscriptions orders have continued to increase year over year with these deals being recognized on a net basis ratably. While this evolution helped to contribute to a flat year over year revenue, we delivered solid growth in gross billings gross profit and gross margin.
Mark Marron: It is also a solid forward indicator for growth with our subscription orders up 51, 4% year over year accounting for almost 46% of our open orders currently compared to 31, 7% last year and growth of over $100 million.
Mark Marron: On a consolidated basis, total revenues were flat as lower product sales were partially offset by faster growing high margin service revenue, which is partially reflected in our gross profit being up 5.3%. We believe customers are still digesting purchases from last year's inventory flush, primarily impacting our networking and data center cloud sales. The main factor, though, was that we had a much higher gross to net adjustment this year, which was up 840 basis points from the prior year and impacted our top line revenues by approximately 60 million. This year-over-year increase in SG&A expenses was primarily due to increased headcount from the Bailiwick acquisition, as well as investments in the business.
Mark Marron: On a consolidated basis total revenues were flat as lower product sales were partially offset by faster growing high margin service revenue, which was partially reflected in our gross profit being up five 3%.
Mark Marron: We believe customers are still digesting purchases from last year's inventory flush primarily impacting our networking and data center cloud sales.
Mark Marron: The main factor, though was that we had a much higher gross to net adjustment this year, which was up 840 basis points from the prior year and impacted our top line revenues by approximately $60 million.
Mark Marron: This year over year increase in SG&A expenses was primarily due to increased head count from the bailiwick acquisition as well as investments in the business of note much of the increased head count were customer facing employees.
Mark Marron: Of note, much of the increased headcount were customer-facing employees. Adjusted EBITDA decreased 15% as higher earnings in the finance segment were offset by a decrease in our technology business adjusted EBITDA. We continue to see softer than expected hardware sales and lower demand from some enterprise customers. As we have moved towards a services-led model, our services revenues continue to grow nicely, increasing 52% year-on-year and reaching a new high of $114 million, with services gross profit up 45% year-over-year. Revenue in the quarter benefited from the acquisition of Bailiwick early in the year, which is integrating well, and organic managed services revenue increased 28% year over year.
Mark Marron: Adjusted EBITDA decreased 15% as higher earnings in the finance segment were offset by a decrease in our technology business. Adjusted EBITDA, we continue to see softer than expected hardware sales and lower demand from some enterprise customers.
Mark Marron: As we have moved towards a services led model our services revenues continue to grow nicely, increasing 52% year on year, and reaching a new high of $114 million with services gross profit up 45% year over year.
Mark Marron: Revenue in the quarter benefited from the acquisition of Baillie weak earlier in the year, which is integrating well and organic managed services revenue increased 28% year over year.
Mark Marron: Our finance segment delivered another solid quarter with revenue increasing 20% primarily due to an increase in proceeds from the sale of equipment, as well as higher portfolio earnings and transaction gains.
Mark Marron: Our finance segment delivered another solid quarter with revenue, increasing 20%, primarily due to an increase in proceeds from the sale of equipment as well as higher portfolio earnings and transaction gains.
Mark Marron: As we look at our longer-term growth drivers, AI is a good place to start. In an ePlus AI survey, 76 percent of IT leaders have said their organizations have yet to reach AI maturity. They noted the top challenges they are facing are a skills gap, security concerns, and cost. There is a disparity between AI aspirations and AI readiness, and most companies are in the early stages of their AI journey. With that, we continue to build out our AI Ignite and Securigen AI programs that deliver services and solutions our customers need to make informed decisions. Our SecureGen AI program is a platform developed by ePlus utilizing leading AI technology from our strategic partners to deliver a SecureGen AI chatbot experience.
Mark Marron: As we look at our longer term growth drivers AI is a good place to start.
Mark Marron: And then E plus AI survey, 76% of it leaders have said their organizations have yet to reach maturity.
Mark Marron: They noted the top challenges they are facing are a skills gap security concerns in cost.
Mark Marron: There is a disparity between AIA aspirations and AI readiness and most companies are in the early stages of their AI journey.
Mark Marron: With that we continue to build out our AI ignite and secured Gen AI programs that deliver services and solutions, our customers need to make informed decisions are.
Mark Marron: Our secured Gen AI program as a platform developed by E plus utilizing leading AI technology from our strategic partners to deliver a secure gen. AI chatbot experience. This allows customers to test use cases and convert them into actionable plans with built in guardrails ultimately are secured.
Mark Marron: This allows customers to test use cases and convert them into actionable plans with built-in guardrails. Ultimately, our SecureGen AI program helps our customers more quickly make informed decisions and adopt Gen AI safe. We're also leveraging the benefits of AI internally to create efficiencies that improve customer satisfaction, and we expect will provide cost savings long term. With our internal use of AI, we're seeing an increase in quality due to automation and an ability to resolve inquiries and tickets faster. As such, we expect that AI will help us deliver enhanced customer experience. Security is key to customers' long-term roadmap, especially related to AI initiatives around data strategy, governance, and risk.
Mark Marron: NII program helps our customers more quickly make informed decisions and adopt gen AI safely.
Mark Marron: We're also leveraging the benefits of AI internally to create efficiencies that improve customer satisfaction and we expect will provide cost savings long term with our internal use of AI. We are seeing an increase in quality due to automation and an ability to resolve inquiries and tickets faster as such we expect that AI will help us.
Mark Marron: Liver enhanced customer experiences.
Mark Marron: Security is key to customers long term roadmap, especially related to AI initiatives around data strategy governance and risk. Our security offerings also continue to be a solid performer for us our security gross billings accounted for 21, 2% of our trailing 12 months gross billings.
Mark Marron: Our security offerings also continue to be a solid performer for us. Our security gross billings accounted for 21.2% of our trailing 12 months gross billing. We continue to benefit from very attractive cash flow characteristics. In turn, our balance sheet provides financial flexibility to support future growth initiatives. We will continue to be disciplined and strategic with our deployment of capital as we prioritize investing in the business to drive long-term growth, both organically and via M&A transactions, as well as return excess cash to our shareholders.
Mark Marron: We continue to benefit from very attractive cash flow characteristics in turn our balance sheet provides financial flexibility to support future growth initiatives, we will continue to be disciplined and strategic with our deployment of capital as we prioritize investing in the business to drive long term growth, both organically and via M&A Trans.
Mark Marron: Actions as well as return excess cash to our shareholders.
Elaine Marion: I will now turn the call over to Elaine to discuss our financial results in more detail.
Speaker Change: I will now turn the call over to Elaine to discuss our financial results in more detail Alain.
Elaine Marion: Thank you, Mark, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. I will now review our financial performance for the third quarter of fiscal 2025. Consolidated net sales of $511 million were modestly above the $509.1 million reported in last year's third quarter. In our technology business, sales were flat year over year as a decline in product sales was more than offset by continued strength in services demand. The decline in product reflects a shift towards sales of third-party software and services resulting in higher netted down revenues, as Mark mentioned, as well as lower sales of product as a result of last year's supply chain easing, particularly from enterprise customers.
Elaine Marion: Thank you Mark and thank you everyone for joining US today I will now review our financial performance for the third quarter of fiscal 2025 consolidated net sales of $511 million were modestly above the $509 1 million reported in last year's third quarter in our technology business sales were.
Elaine Marion: Flat year over year as a decline in product sales was more than offset by continued strength in services demand. The decline in product sales reflects the shift towards sales of third party software and services, resulting in higher netted down revenues as Mark mentioned as well as lower sales of product as a result of last year's supply chain easing.
Elaine Marion: Particularly from enterprise customers, notably gross billings growth of six 6% year over year outpaced net sales growth highlighting continued demand for <unk> offerings and the netting down effect.
Elaine Marion: Notably, gross billings growth of 6.6% year over year outpaced net sales growth, highlighting continued demand for ePlus's offerings and the netting down effect. Our strategic focus on services continues to deliver results as service revenue grew 52% in the quarter with strong contribution from both professional and managed services. The professional services segment benefited from the Bailiwick acquisition while growth in the managed services segment was broad-based. Within our technology business, our two largest markets continue to be telecom, media, and entertainment and technology, representing 24 and 17 percent, respectively, of technology business net sales on a trailing 12-month basis.
Elaine Marion: Our strategic focus on services continues to deliver results as service revenue grew 52% in the quarter with strong contribution from both professional and managed services.
Elaine Marion: <unk> services segment benefited from the Bailiwick acquisition, while growth in the managed services segment was broad based within our technology business. Our two largest markets continue to be telecom media and entertainment and technology, representing 24% and 17% respectively, a technology business net sales.
Elaine Marion: On a trailing 12 month basis.
Elaine Marion: led healthcare and financial services accounted for 16, 13, and 10% respectively, with the remaining 20% from other end markets. Our financing segment posted a solid quarter with revenues of $17.8 million up 19.8% from $14.9 million in last year's third quarter due to higher proceeds from sales of equipment and portfolio earnings. Consolidated growth profit grew 5.3% faster than our revenue growth to $140.9 million, representing a consolidated growth margin of 27.6%, up from 26.3% in the prior year. The 130-basis point expansion was primarily driven by higher product margins, which benefited from a shift in mix to third-party maintenance and subscriptions.
Elaine Marion: Sled healthcare and financial services accounted for 16, 13, and 10% respectively with the remaining 20% from other end markets. Our financing segment posted a solid quarter with revenues of $17 8 million up 19, 8% from $14 9 million in last year's third quarter.
Elaine Marion: Due to higher proceeds from sales of equipment and portfolio earnings.
Elaine Marion: Consolidated gross profit grew five 3% faster than our revenue growth to $140 9 million, representing a consolidated gross margin of 27, 6% up from 26, 3% in the prior year.
Elaine Marion: The 130 basis point expansion was primarily driven by higher product margins, which benefited from a shift in mix to third party maintenance and subscriptions, while product margins were higher than last year, a higher proportion of product sales to certain enterprise customers at lower overall margins.
Elaine Marion: While product margins were higher than last year, a higher proportion of product sales to certain enterprise customers at lower overall margins weighed on product margins, but this was offset by contribution from the netting effect I've mentioned. Professional services gross margin declined to 40.1% from 43.3% due to a shift in mix of services provided, while managed services gross margin declined to 29.8% from 31.8%. Consolidated operating expenses increased 17.3% year-over-year to $112.4 million, primarily reflecting increased headcount due to the bailiwick and peak resource acquisitions, as well as continued investments in our business to support our growth. Our headcount at the end of the quarter increased to $2,291 from $1,897 a year ago, primarily reflecting additions of customer-facing professionals acquired in the bailiwick transaction.
Elaine Marion: Weighed on product margins, but this was offset by contribution from the netting effect I've mentioned.
Elaine Marion: Professional services gross margin declined to 41% from 43, 3% due to a shift in mix of services provided while managed services gross margin declined to 29, 8% from 31, 8%.
Elaine Marion: Consolidated operating expenses increased 17, 3% year over year to $112 4 million, primarily reflecting increased head count due to the bailiwick and peak resorts acquisitions as well as continued investments in our business to support our growth our head count at the end of the quarter increased to two.
Elaine Marion: <unk> thousand 291 from 1897, a year ago, primarily reflecting additions of customer facing professionals acquired in the bailiwick transaction.
Elaine Marion: Operating income was $28.5 million, down from $38 million, and earnings before taxes declined to $32.2 million from $38.4 million in the prior year quarter. During the third quarter, we realized interest income of $1.8 million and foreign exchange gains of $1.9 million, resulting in other income of $3.7 million. Our effective tax rate was 25% versus 29% a year ago due to lower state tax rates. Third quarter consolidated net earnings were $24.1 million, or $0.91 per share, down from net earnings of $27.3 million, or $1.02 per share, in last year's third quarter. Non-GAAP diluted earnings came in at $1.06 per share compared to $1.18 per share last year.
Elaine Marion: Operating income was $28 5 million down from $38 million in earnings before taxes declined to $32 2 million from $38 4 million in the prior year quarter.
Elaine Marion: During the third quarter, we realized interest income of $1 8 million and foreign exchange gains of $1 9 million, resulting in other income of $3 7 million, our effective tax rate was 25% versus 29% a year ago due to lower state taxes.
Elaine Marion: Third quarter consolidated net earnings were $24 1 million or <unk> 91 per share down from net earnings of $27 3 million or $1 two per share in last year's third quarter.
Elaine Marion: non-GAAP diluted earnings came in at $1 six per share compared to $1 18 per share last year, our diluted share count at the end of the quarter was $26 6 million compared to $26 7 million in the prior year third quarter.
Elaine Marion: Our diluted share count at the end of the quarter was $26.6 million compared to $26.7 million in the prior year third quarter. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA amounted to $39.2 million versus $46.2 million in the third quarter of fiscal 24.
Elaine Marion: Consolidated adjusted EBITDA amounted to $39 2 million versus $46 2 million in the third quarter of fiscal 'twenty four for the nine months ended December 31, 2020 for our consolidated net sales totaled one $5 7 billion down from $1 67 billion in the prior year.
Elaine Marion: For the nine months ended December 31, 2024, our consolidated net sales totaled $1.57 billion, down from $1.67 billion in the prior year. The decrease primarily reflects lower product sales in the technology business, partially offset by growth in services and stronger performance in our financing segment. Technology business net sales were $1.52 billion year-to-date compared to $1.63 billion last year. Despite the decline in net sales, gross billings in the technology business were essentially flat year over year at $2.49 billion. Year-to-date consolidated gross profit rose 0.7% to $423.4 million, while gross margin rose 180 basis points to 27%.
Elaine Marion: The decrease primarily reflects lower product sales in the technology business, partially offset by growth in services and stronger performance in our financing segment.
Elaine Marion: Technology business net sales were $1 $5 2 billion year to date compared to $1 six 3 billion last year.
Elaine Marion: Despite the decline in net sales gross billings in the technology business were essentially flat year over year at $2 49 billion.
Year to date consolidated gross profit rose, 7% to $423 4 million, while gross margin rose 180 basis points to 27%.
Elaine Marion: Gross margin expansion was driven by higher product margins, which benefited from an increase in netted down revenues partially offset by lower upfront margins. For the nine months ended December 31st, 2024, consolidated net earnings were $82.8 million, or $3.10 per diluted share, compared to $93.8 million, or $3.52 per diluted share in the comparable period last year, and non-GAAP earnings per share were $3.56 versus $3.99. Adjusted EBITDA was $134.4 million, down from $153.6 million in the comparable period last year. We ended the quarter with cash and cash equivalents of $253.1 million, consistent with the balance at the close of fiscal 2024.
Elaine Marion: Gross margin expansion was driven by higher product margins, which benefited from an increase in netted down revenues, partially offset by lower upfront margins.
Elaine Marion: For the nine months ended December 31, 2024, consolidated net earnings were $82 8 million or $3 10 per diluted share compared to $93 8 million or $3 52 per diluted share in the comparable period last year.
Elaine Marion: And non-GAAP earnings per share were $3 56.
Elaine Marion: Versus $3 99.
Elaine Marion: Adjusted EBIT was $134 4 million down from $153 $6 million in the comparable period last year.
Elaine Marion: We ended the quarter with cash and cash equivalents of $253 1 million consistent with the balance at the close of fiscal 2024.
Elaine Marion: Operating cash flow for the first nine months was $141.2 million compared to $143.5 million last year, and included cash used to fund working capital, the Bailiwick acquisition, and share repurchase. We ended the quarter with $99 million in inventory, down from $139.7 million at the end of fiscal 2024. Inventory turns were 13 days, down significantly from 27 days in the third quarter of fiscal 2024. As a result, our cash conversion cycle improved to 32 days, down meaningfully from 54 days in the prior year. During the first nine months of the year, we repurchased approximately 380,000 shares under our repurchase plan at a cost of $30 million.
Elaine Marion: Operating cash flow for the first nine months was $141 2 million compared to $143 5 million last year and included cash used to fund working capital the bailiwick acquisition and share repurchases.
Elaine Marion: We ended the quarter with $99 million in inventory down from $139 7 million at the end of fiscal 2024 inventory turns were 13 days down significantly from 2007 days in the third quarter of fiscal 2024.
Elaine Marion: As a result, our cash conversion cycle improved to 32 days down meaningfully from 54 days in the prior year.
Elaine Marion: During the first nine months of the year, we repurchased approximately 380000 shares under our repurchase plan at a cost of $30 million.
Elaine Marion: Our strategy continues to focus on our core priorities, driving organic growth, expanding through accretive acquisitions, and returning capital to shareholders through our repurchase program.
Elaine Marion: Our strategy continues to focus on our core priorities driving organic growth expanding through accretive acquisitions, and returning capital to shareholders through our repurchase program.
Mark Marron: With that, I will turn the call back over to Mark.
Elaine Marion: With that I will turn the call back over to Mark Mark.
Mark Marron: Thank you, Elaine. We are investing both organically and inorganically to develop a portfolio that provides us with multiple levers for growth across a broad range of verticals to drive growth and diversification. Growth of our gross profit and services are key indicators of the success of our go-to-market plans and being a trusted advisor for our customers. Our recent results reflect both the fast growth of our services-led business model and the accelerating shift towards ratable, subscription, and as-a-service revenue recognition models. This has resulted in mixed results for the quarter, and we will continue to adapt and adjust as the market transitions.
Mark Marron: Thank you Elaine we are investing both organically and inorganically to develop a portfolio that provides us with multiple levers for growth across a broad range of verticals to drive growth and diversification.
Mark Marron: Growth of our gross profit and services are key indicators of the success of our go to market plans and being a trusted adviser for our customers. Our recent results reflect both the fast growth of our services led business model and the accelerating shift towards ratable subscription and as a service revenue recognition models.
Mark Marron: This has resulted in mixed results for the quarter and we will continue to adapt and adjust as the market transitions. As a result, we are adjusting our fiscal 2025 financial outlook.
Mark Marron: As a result, we are adjusting our fiscal 2025 financial outlook. Turning to guidance, we now forecast a revenue range of $2.07 billion to $2.11 billion for fiscal year 2025, and an adjusted EBITDA range of $165 million to $171 million. Our guidance reflects higher gross net adjustments than previously expected, and also factors in the near-term potential of tariffs and how this might affect short-term decisions. We will continue to monitor this closely and expect to share more insight at the time of our year-end conference call. We are making investments in the business, focusing on high-growth areas where we seek the best return opportunities, and we are confident this will support our commitment to growth in 2025 and beyond.
Mark Marron: Turning to guidance, we now forecast a revenue range of $2 7 billion to $2 1 billion for fiscal year, 2025, and an adjusted EBITDA range of $165 million to $171 million our guidance reflects higher gross to net adjustments than previously expected and also factors in the near term potential.
Mark Marron: If tariffs and how this might affect short term decisions. We will continue to monitor this closely and expect to share more insight at the time of our year end conference call.
Mark Marron: We are making investments in the business focusing on high growth areas, where we seek the best return opportunities and we are confident this will support our commitment to growth in 2025 and beyond.
Mark Marron: Our balance sheet and financial condition are healthy, which gives us a solid foundation for expansion.
Mark Marron: Our balance sheet and financial condition are healthy, which gives us a solid foundation for expansion in conclusion, we remain confident in the growth opportunities for our business moving forward and our ability to execute.
Mark Marron: In conclusion, we remain confident in the growth opportunities for our business moving forward and our ability to expand.
Operator: Operator, please open the line for questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our question and answer session.
Mark Marron: Operator, please open the line for questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our question and answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question. Please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question simply press Star. One again. Your first question comes from the line of Maggie Nolan with William Blair. Please go ahead.
Operator: If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one.
Maggie Nolan: Your first question comes from the line of Maggie Nolan with William Blair. Please go ahead.
Maggie Nolan: I thank you. Can you talk a little bit about your expectations for product sales that are included in the guide and maybe a couple of quarters beyond that?
Maggie Nolan: Hi, Thank you can.
Maggie Nolan: Can you talk a little bit about your expectations for product sales that are included in the guide and maybe a couple of quarters beyond that.
Mark Marron: Sorry, Maggie, did you say we didn't hear your expectation for product sales in the quarter and then going forward or? Yeah, the fiscal fourth quarter, and if you can go a couple quarters beyond that, kind of flesh out the, you know, trends you're seeing, given that it's been a weak spot. Yeah. It's actually, I think we noted it on the last earnings call as well, Maggie, that there's a softening in the market around some of the hardware or product demands, if you will. We specifically saw it with some select enterprise accounts in this quarter. We would expect it to continue into next quarter.
Speaker Change: Sorry, Maggie did you say.
Speaker Change: Here your expectation for product sales in the quarter, and then going forward or.
Speaker Change: But yes, that's the fiscal fourth quarter and if you could go a couple of quarters beyond that kind of flesh out the.
Speaker Change: Trends youre seeing given that its been a weak spot.
Speaker Change: Yes, it's actually I think we noted on the last earnings call as well <unk> debt.
That there is a softening in the market around some of the hardware or product demands. If you will we specifically saw it with some select enterprise accounts in this quarter, we would expect that to continue into next quarter. The other things that affected our I'll say bottom line not so much top line.
Mark Marron: The other things that affected our, I'll say, bottom line, not so much top line, was some of the upfront gross margins on product sales. That was more of an anomaly, but that was offset by the netted down revenues.
Speaker Change: Does some of the upfront gross margins on product sales that was more of an anomaly, but that was offset by the netted down revenues.
Mark Marron: The other interesting thing in play here, Maggie, is the market is really changing. The OEMs are going more to as a service consumption subscription model. So they're recognized on a net and ratable basis. I think you may have seen our netted down revenues. Product sales were actually affected by 840 basis points. To put that in perspective, that's about 60 million in net sales that would have went to our top line if it were flat the last year. So it's a moving target. I would expect that they'd continue to be a soft demand for Q4 and then would expect it to start to pick up a little bit as we move into our Q1.
Maggie Nolan: Other interesting thing in play here Maggie as the market is really changing the Oems are going more to <unk>.
Maggie Nolan: As a service consumption subscription models. So they are recognized on a net and ratable basis.
Maggie Nolan: I think you may have seen are netted down revenues product sales were actually affected by 840 basis points to put that in perspective, that's about 60 million of net sales that went through our topline if it were flat to last year.
Maggie Nolan: So it's a moving target I would expect that they would continue to be.
Maggie Nolan: Soft demand for.
Maggie Nolan: For Q4, and then we would expect it to start to pick up a little bit as we move into our Q1.
Maggie Nolan: So on that last point, Mark, I mean, we've talked about this shift toward netted down product revenues.
Maggie Nolan: So on that last point, Mark I mean, we've talked about this shift toward non product revenues.
Mark Marron: Are you calling an acceleration? Do you have an idea of maybe what might be driving that trend to accelerate at this moment in time? Yeah, we've seen a couple different things, Maggie. One, we still don't know if it's a new trend. If you look at just the last two quarters, last quarter's netted down revenues for product sales was affected by 940 basis points. This quarter was 840 basis points. That's significantly higher than last year and higher than what we were projecting in the beginning of the year. So there is that play.
Maggie Nolan: Are you, calling an acceleration do you have an idea of maybe what might be driving that.
Maggie Nolan: Trends to accelerate at this moment in time.
Maggie Nolan: We've seen a couple of different thanks Maggie.
Maggie Nolan: We still don't know if its a new trend. If you look at just the last few quarters last quarters are netted down revenues for our product sales was affected by 940 basis points. This quarter was 840 basis points, that's significantly higher than last year and.
Maggie Nolan: Higher than what we were projecting in the beginning of the year. So there is there is that play what's really happening here is the Oems are changing how they go to market.
Mark Marron: What's really happening here is the OEMs are changing how they're going to market. As we sell more software, that subscription normally recognized on a net or maybe an annual basis. So it's really the product mix and solutions that we're selling that's affecting this right now.
Maggie Nolan: As we sell more software that subscription normally recognized on a net or maybe.
Maggie Nolan: An annual basis, so it's really the product mix and solutions that we're selling that's affecting us right now.
Maggie Nolan: Okay, thank you.
Maggie Nolan: Okay. Thank you.
Mark Marron: No problem.
Mark Marron: Good hearing from you, Maggie. We'll talk to you soon.
Maggie Nolan: No problem. Good hearing from you Maggie will talk to you soon.
Greg Burns: Your next question comes from the line of Greg Burns with Sidoti. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Greg Burns with Sidoti. Please go ahead.
Greg Burns: Good afternoon. So I just wanted to talk, I guess, a little bit more about the demand environment. I know you've been kind of calling out this digestion of Some of the product that's in the channel. from the supply chain kind of improving over the last year. That seems to be lingering longer than probably we would have expected, so is there anything else going on? What are you hearing from your customers? Is it beyond that at this point? Is there other things driving the soft demand, or is it really just kind of this digestion of product in the channel?
Speaker Change: Good afternoon.
Speaker Change: So I just wanted to talk just a little bit more about the demand environment and I know you've been kind of calling out this digestion of.
Speaker Change: Some of the product that's in the channel.
Speaker Change: The supply chain kind of improving over last year.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: That seems to be lingering longer than probably we would have expected.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: Is there anything else going on or what are you hearing from your.
Speaker Change: To your customers.
Speaker Change: Is it beyond that at this point is there other things driving the soft demand or is it really just kind of this digestion of a product in the channel.
Mark Marron: Yes, it's the digestion, Greg. We can see it specifically in the networking space and a few select enterprise customers. So it is around supply chain for the most part. There are things going on overall in the industry, I think, as you know, with tariffs and DOGE and everything else that's going on. I do think the election actually slowed things down a little bit for us in the beginning of the quarter. We did see our billings were flattened down in the October-November timeframe and picked up in December. But we didn't pick up a lot of what I call the urine flush or what we'd normally expect in this quarter.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I'd say its the digestion, Greg we can see it specifically in the networking space in a few select the enterprise customers. So.
Speaker Change: It is around supply chain for the most part.
Speaker Change: There are things going on overall.
Speaker Change: The industry I think as with tariffs in there.
Speaker Change: <unk> and everything else, that's going on I do think the election actually slowed things down a little bit for us in the beginning of the quarter. We did see our billings were flat to down.
Speaker Change: In the October November timeframe and picked up in December.
Speaker Change: But we didn't pick up a lot of what I call the year end flush or what we'd normally expect in this quarter. So those are still the cases, there we still from a I'll say a customer set standpoint, both both size and by vertical.
Mark Marron: So those are still the cases there. We still, from a, I'll say, a customer set standpoint, both size and by vertical, we're pretty diversified. In fact, we've actually diversified more with the Bailiwick acquisition with some of their customers or expanded the verticals we were in in some cases. So we feel somewhat protected long term, but there are some things going on that are affecting decisions right now.
Speaker Change: We're pretty diversified in fact, we've actually diversified more with the bailiwick acquisition with some of your customers who have expanded the verticals. We were in in some cases, so we feel.
Speaker Change: Somewhat protected long term, but there are some things going on that are affecting decisions right now.
Mark Marron: Okay, and then in terms of this ongoing shift towards more software subscription routable models. Can you just talk about, like, what the value proposition for a bar is in that type of model? Is there an increased risk of maybe... Disintermediation over time, can they go more easily direct to customers with that model? No, no, Greg. In fact, it's actually an opportunity for us to build up our services. So in a lot of cases with the subscription, there's add-on services, there's renewals, there's what they call life cycle management. So you try to get them to adopt the technology or software, if you will, upsell additional and in incremental services, maybe provide some type of, you know, staffing and or managed service.
Okay.
Speaker Change: And then in terms of this ongoing shift towards more software subscription ratable models.
Speaker Change: Could you just talk about like what the value proposition for a for a.
Speaker Change: Bar is in that type of model is there an increased risk of maybe.
Speaker Change: Disintermediation overtime can they go more easily direct.
Uh huh.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: Customers with that model no no Greg in fact, it's actually an opportunity for us to build up our services, so and a lot of cases with the subscription there's add on services.
Speaker Change: There's renewals there is what they call lifecycle management. So you try to get them to adopt the technology or software. If you will up sell additional features and an incremental services may be provide some type of.
Speaker Change: Staffing into our managed service so no it's not it's no different in terms of with the subscription versus hardware I believe that would affect the channel.
Mark Marron: So no, it's not, it's no different in terms of with the subscription versus hardware. I believe that would affect the channel. Okay, great.
Greg Burns: Thank you. No problem.
Speaker Change: Okay, great. Thank you.
Speaker Change: No problem.
Mark Marron: Thanks, Greg.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Greg.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Mark Marron: As there are no further questions at this time, I would like to turn the call back over to Mr. Mark Marron for closing remarks. All right, thank you, everybody. Hey, look, I will reiterate, we still feel very strongly about our strategy and our focus areas that we're in. We're going to continue to build out our services-led model. Our services were up 52%. They were approximately 23% of our net sales this quarter. We'll continue to leverage our customer base and customer segments. Our strong balance sheet gives us flexibility to make inorganic and organic moves. So we feel good where we're positioned.
Mark Marron: As there are no further questions at this time I would like to turn the call back over to Mr. Mark <unk> for closing remarks.
Alright. Thank you everybody, Hey, look I will reiterate we still feel very strongly about our strategy and our focus areas that we're in we're going to continue to build out our services led model. Our services were up 52% there were approximately 23% of our net sales. This quarter, we will continue to leverage our customer base and <unk> customer.
Mark Marron: Our segments, our strong balance sheet gives us flexibility to make inorganic and organic moves. So we feel good where we're positioned and we've been in business for a long time, so we will adapt and adjust to this new norm short term.
Mark Marron: And we've been in business for a long time. So we will adapt and adjust to this new norm short term and be able to make the moves that we need to make.
Mark Marron: Are you able to make the moves that we need to make so I want to thank everybody for joining us today and look forward to seeing or hearing you on the next call. Thank you.
Mark Marron: So I want to thank everybody for joining us today and look forward to seeing or hearing you on the next call. Thank you.
Operator: That concludes today's meeting. Thank you for your participation.
Mark Marron: That concludes today's meeting thank you for your participation you may now disconnect.
Operator: You may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: Please wait the conference will begin shortly.
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