Q4 2024 Aeye Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Thank you for standing by.
Thank you for standing by my name is Gail and I will be your conference operator today at this.
Operator: My name is Gail and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the AIQ for 2024 earnings conference. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, kindly press star 1 again.
This time I would like to welcome everyone to the AI Q4, 'twenty 'twenty four earnings conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question. During this time simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
If you would like to withdraw your question kind of press Star One again I will now turn the call. After that showed any Apple. Please go ahead.
Jeremy Apple: I will now turn the call over to Jeremy Apple, please go ahead. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining AEI's fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. With me today are Matt Fisch, Chief Executive Officer, and Conor Tierney, Chief Financial Officer.
Good afternoon, and thank you for joining <unk> fourth quarter 2024 earnings call.
Matt Fish: With me today are Matt fish, Chief Executive Officer, <unk>, <unk>, Chief Financial Officer.
Jeremy Apple: Earlier today, AI announced its financial results for the fourth quarter and full year of 2020. A copy of this press release can be found on the investor relations section of the company's website.
Earlier today.
Matt Fish: Its financial results for the fourth quarter and full year of 2024.
Matt Fish: A copy of this press release can be found on the Investor Relations section of the company's website.
Unknown Executive: Today's discussion may include forward-looking statements as defined in the Securities Laws and Regulations of the United States with reference to future events, operating results, or performance, and are based on our current expectations and assumptions. Any forward-looking statements are subject to inherent risks, uncertainties, and changes in circumstances. Our actual results may differ materially from those contemplated by these forward-looking statements.
Matt Fish: Today's discussion May include forward looking statements as defined in the securities laws and regulations of the United States with reference to future events operating.
Matt Fish: Operating results or performance and are based on our current expectations and assumptions.
Matt Fish: Any forward looking statements are subject to inherent risks uncertainties and changes in circumstances are.
Matt Fish: Actual results may differ materially from those contemplated by these forward looking statements.
Unknown Executive: You can find more information about the risks, uncertainties, and other factors in the report's AI files from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including in the most recent periodic report.
Matt Fish: You can find more information about the risks uncertainties and other factors in the reports AI files from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including the most recent periodic report.
Unknown Executive: Statements to be made are as of today only, and AEI does not intend to update any forward-looking statements, regardless of any new information, future developments, or otherwise, except as may be required by law.
Matt Fish: The statements to be made are as of today, only and AI does not intend to update any forward looking statements, regardless of any new information future developments or otherwise.
Matt Fish: Except as may be required by law.
Unknown Executive: In addition, we will be discussing non-GAAP financial measures on this call, which we believe are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the district. These measures are presented as supplemental information only and should not be considered a substitute for financial information presented in accordance with GAAP. You can find reconciliations of these metrics, the most directly comparable gap measures within the press.
Matt Fish: In addition, we will be discussing non-GAAP financial measures on this call, which we believe are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the business.
Matt Fish: These measures are presented as supplemental information only.
Matt Fish: Should not be considered a substitute for financial information presented in accordance with GAAP.
Matt Fish: You can find reconciliations of these metrics to the most directly comparable GAAP measures within the press release.
Matthew Fisch: Now, let me pass the call over to Thanks, Jeremy. And thank you all for joining us today on our fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. We appreciate your continued support and interest in our company.
Matt Fish: Now, let me pass the call over to me.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Jeremy and thank you all for joining us today on our fourth quarter 2024 earnings call.
Speaker Change: We appreciate your continued support and interest in our company.
Matthew Fisch: 2024 was a transformative year for AI, marked by critical milestones, including a new product launch, extended financial runway, increased engagement with OEM customers, and expansion into new markets. Apollo, our compact software-defined LiDAR sensor, has been a significant impetus to our ongoing progress. We first unveiled Apollo last June at the Auto LiDAR Tech Conference in Suzhou, China. Since then, it has undergone stringent evaluations by OEMs and has begun field testing in additional market sectors. Throughout 2024, we made innovative improvements to Apollo that delivered breakthrough advancements to its sensing capability. This past October, we announced that Apollo demonstrated unparalleled high-resolution long-range detection capabilities at one kilometer.
Speaker Change: 2024 was a transformative year for AI marked by critical milestones, including a new product launch.
Speaker Change: And in financial runway increased engagement with OEM customers and expansion into new markets.
Speaker Change: Apollo our compact software defined Lidar sensor has been a significant impetus to our ongoing progress.
Speaker Change: We first unveiled Apollo last June at the auto wider check conference in Suzhou China.
Speaker Change: Since then it has undergone stringent and valuations by Oems and has begun field testing in additional market sectors.
Speaker Change: Throughout 2024, we made innovative improvements to Apollo that deliver breakthrough advancements to our sensing capabilities.
Speaker Change: This past October we announced that Apollo demonstrated unparalleled high resolution long range detection capabilities at <unk>.
Speaker Change: One kilometer.
Matthew Fisch: Importantly, Apollo has the unique ability to deliver high-resolution detection from behind a windshield for high-speed automotive ADAS use cases.
Speaker Change: Importantly, Apollo has the unique ability to deliver high resolution detection for behind the windshield for high speed automotive Adas use cases.
Matthew Fisch: During the CES show last month, we officially launched Apollo in the U.S., and the response has been overwhelmingly positive. We successfully demonstrated Apollo's capabilities through live test drives, proving that an in-cabin, behind-the-windshield implementation is not only feasible, but also highly effective. Apollo's unique attributes provide OEMs with a proven solution to alternative roof-mounted LiDAR systems that are more complex and higher in cost. Until now, a behind-the-windshield implementation was not considered viable due to the performance and size constraints of existing LiDAR solutions.
Speaker Change: During the CES show last month, we officially launched in the U S and the response has been overwhelmingly positive.
Speaker Change: We successfully demonstrated apollo's capabilities through life test drives proving that in in cabin behind the windshield implementation is not only feasible, but also highly effective.
Speaker Change: Apollo has unique attributes provide Oems with a proven solution to alternative roof mounted lidar systems that are more complex and hiring costs.
Speaker Change: Until now our behind the windshield implementation was not considered viable due to the performance and size constraints of existing Lidar solutions.
Matthew Fisch: And I'm proud that our talented team at AI cracked the code and set a new bar with Apollo. Based on market enthusiasm for Apollo, we were able to raise growth capital and extend our cash runway to mid-2026. With these added financial resources, our strategic partnerships and capital light business model, we have secured the longevity to ramp Apollo into high volume production. As we said on our third quarter call, we expected to ramp the first Apollo manufacturing line with our global tier one partner. This is now proceeding according to plan, and the first units are expected to come off the line in the first quarter of 2025.
Speaker Change: I am proud that our talented team at AI practically and set a new bar with Apollo.
Speaker Change: Based on market enthusiasm for Apollo, we were able to raise growth capital and extend our cash runway to mid 2026.
Speaker Change: With these added financial resources, our strategic partnerships and capital light business model, we have secured the longevity to ramp Apollo into high volume production.
Speaker Change: As we said on our third quarter call, we expect it to ramp the first Apollo manufacturing line with our global tier one partner.
Speaker Change: This is now proceeding according to plan.
Speaker Change: And the first units are expected to come off the line in the first quarter of 2025.
Matthew Fisch: Our relationship with this strategic supplier validates AI's ability to deliver LiDAR solutions at substantially reduced costs, opening the door to new opportunities with global OEMs. We are also working to produce the first B-samples of Apollo, which is a critical step in the OEM quoting process and also provide a production-ready solution for non-automotive customers.
Speaker Change: Our relationship with this strategic supplier validate.
Speaker Change: <unk> ability to deliver lidar solutions at substantially reduced costs opening the door to new opportunities with global Oems.
Speaker Change: We are also working to produce the first fee samples of Apollo, which is a critical step in the OEM coding process and also provides a production ready solution for non automotive customers positioning.
Matthew Fisch: Positioning Apollo for mass production remains our top priority for 2025, and we look forward to sharing more details soon. We remain actively involved with global OEMs, expanding our level of engagement to include rigorous testing of Apollo for upcoming programs. Our software-defined architecture, which offers the ability to modify the product quickly in a matter of days, not weeks or months, has received accolades from our OEM and other partner engagements. This important capability accelerates the customer's development process, delivering a significant advantage in both time and cost.
Speaker Change: Positioning Apollo from mass production remains our top priority for 2025.
Speaker Change: And we look forward to sharing more detail soon.
Speaker Change: We remain actively involved with global Oems expanding our level of engagement to include rigorous testing of Apollo for upcoming programs are.
Speaker Change: Our software defined architecture, which offers the ability to modify the product quickly in a matter of days not weeks or months has received accolades from our OEM and other partner engagements.
Speaker Change: This important capability accelerate the customer's development process delivering a significant advantage in both time and cost.
Matthew Fisch: turning to NVIDIA. Our evolving partnership with this industry leader is helping us to gain access to new OEMs. We have proven that Apollo meets NVIDIA's rigorous Hyperion Autonomous Driving Platform specifications, an accomplishment which we believe is unmatched in the LIDAR industry. Global OEMs use NVIDIA's Hyperion platform as a foundation for developing their autonomous driving and ADAS system. Integration onto this platform grants AI direct exposure to these OEMs and will help them adopt our LiDAR solutions with confidence. Importantly, due to its industry-leading range and resolution, Apollo is gaining traction across a wide variety of sensing applications beyond the automotive space, including in security, rail, and intelligent traffic systems. For example, in security applications, Apollo's long-range sensing capabilities at high resolution, even in low visibility conditions, make it stand out over alternative options.
Speaker Change: Turning to Nvidia.
Speaker Change: Our evolving partnership with this industry leader is helping us to gain access to new Oems.
Speaker Change: We have proven that Apollo.
Speaker Change: Nvidia is rigorous Hyperion autonomous driving platform specifications.
Speaker Change: Accomplishment, which we believe is unmatched in the white our industry.
Speaker Change: Global Oems using videos high Purion platform as a foundation for developing their autonomous driving and Adas systems.
Speaker Change: Integration onto this platform grants AI direct exposure to these Oems and we will help them adopt our lidar solutions with confidence.
Speaker Change: Importantly, due to its industry, leading range and resolution Apollo is gaining traction across a wide variety of sensing applications beyond the automotive space, including in security.
Speaker Change: Rail and intelligent traffic systems.
Speaker Change: For example in security applications Apollo's, the long range essentially capability at high resolution, even in low visibility conditions make it stand out over alternative options.
Matthew Fisch: Thanks to our partners at ATI and Life Techcon, we are field testing Apollo for these types of applications in China, and are also making similar progress with another partner in the EU. We will continue to explore high value use cases outside of automotive to capture new growth opportunities for Apollo.
Speaker Change: Thanks to our partners at ATI and life Tech ton, we are field testing Apollo for these types of applications in China.
And are also making similar progress with another partner in the EU.
Speaker Change: We will continue to explore high value use cases outside of automotive to capture new growth opportunities for Apollo.
Matthew Fisch: In closing, I'm incredibly pleased with our accomplishments in 2024. Achieving technological and strategic advancements with Apollo while successfully raising capital to bolster our financial foundation. Through our capital-light model and disciplined execution of cash reduction initiatives, AEI has the lowest cash burn rate in the industry, providing a remarkable level of resilience for our business. Heading into 2025, we are well positioned to meet demands from OEMs which view LiDAR as essential to the future success of their roadmap.
Speaker Change: In closing I'm incredibly pleased with our accomplishments in 2024.
Speaker Change: Achieving technological and strategic advancements with Apollo, while successfully raising capital to bolster our financial Foundation.
Speaker Change: Through our capital light model and disciplined execution of cost reduction initiatives.
Speaker Change: AI has the lowest cash burn rate in the industry, providing a remarkable level of resilience for our business.
Speaker Change: Heading into 2025, we are well positioned to meet demand from Oems, which view lidar is essential to the future success of their roadmap.
Conor Tierney: Kinstlinger, John Roy, Unknown Executive, Matthew Fisch, Kevin Garrigan, Conor I will turn the call over to Conor to provide more color on our financial performance. Thanks, Matt. In the fourth quarter, we continue to build on strong operational momentum that defined our performance throughout 2024. Our disciplined approach to cost management allowed us to outperform our cash burn guidance for both the quarter and the full year. At the same time, we strengthen key strategic partnerships that are expanding our market opportunities and positioning us for long-term growth. A clear highlight this year has been our success in raising capital.
Speaker Change: With that.
Speaker Change: I will turn the call over to Conor to provide more color on our financial performance.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Matt in the fourth quarter, we continued to build on strong operational momentum that defined our performance throughout 2024.
Speaker Change: Our disciplined approach to cost management.
Speaker Change: I would have to outperform our cash burn guidance for both the quarter and the full year.
Speaker Change: At the same time, we strengthened key strategic partnerships.
Speaker Change: We are expanding our market opportunities and positioning us for long term growth.
Speaker Change: A clear highlight this year has been our success in raising capital.
Conor Tierney: We ended the fourth quarter of 2024 with $22.3 million in cash, cash equivalents and marketable security. Moreover, we successfully leveraged market enthusiasm for our technology to raise an additional $12.7 million thus far in 2025. Based on current forecasts, this extends our runway to mid-2026, as Matt noted. To put this in perspective, since the beginning of the fourth quarter of 2024, we raised approximately $18 million, which represents nearly a full year of runway at our current cash burn rate. Our strong balance sheet and liquidity should give us ample runway to reach high volume production for Apollo and weather delays in automotive OEM quoting activities.
Speaker Change: We ended the fourth quarter of 2024 with $22 3 million.
Speaker Change: And cash cash equivalents and marketable securities.
Moreover, we successfully leveraged market enthusiasm for our technology to raise an additional $12 7 million thus far in 2025.
Speaker Change: Based on current forecasts.
Speaker Change: And our runway to mid 2026 as Matt noted.
Speaker Change: Put this in perspective.
Speaker Change: Since the beginning fourth quarter 2024, we raised approximately $18 million.
Speaker Change: Which represents nearly a full year of runway at our current cash burn rate.
Speaker Change: Our strong balance sheet and liquidity should give us ample runway to reach high volume production for Apollo.
Speaker Change: And weather delays in automotive OEM quoting activities.
Conor Tierney: Our manufacturing line with our Tier 1 partner is already ramping up and on track to deliver bee samples in the first quarter of 2025. We are heartened by the increased interest that we are seeing for Apollo, underscored by the success of our U.S. launch at CES. Apollo's distinct advantages in range and performance, combined with its competitive low-cost form factor, are attracting attention from customers across multiple sectors, including security, rail and intelligent transportation systems. We're hearing from many OEMs that LiDAR technology is essential to their platforms and the enthusiasm we're seeing from industry leaders further validates Apollo's potential as a game changing technology.
Our manufacturing lines with our tier one partner is already ramping up and.
Speaker Change: And on track to deliver these samples in the first quarter of 2020.
We are heartened like increased interest that we are seeing for Apollo underscored by the success of our U S launch at CES.
Speaker Change: Those distinct advantages and range performance combined with its competitive low cost form factor or.
Speaker Change: We are attracting attention from customers across multiple sectors, including security rail and intelligent transportation systems.
Speaker Change: We're hearing from many Oems that Lidar technology is essential to their platforms and the enthusiasm we're seeing from industry leaders further validates polished potential I think game changing technology Adil.
Conor Tierney: Additionally, our evolving partnership with NVIDIA is unlocking new opportunities with automotive OEMs and is supporting our path to commercialization in the automotive sector.
Speaker Change: Additionally, our evolving partnership with Nvidia is unlocking new opportunities with automotive Oems and is supporting our path to commercialization and the automotive sector.
Conor Tierney: I'd like to address our differentiated capital light model on slide 8. As you can see, we have very low cash burn and operating expenses compared to our peers. I am pleased to report that we have reduced our net cash burn for the seventh consecutive quarter. Excluding new net financing of $4.6 million. Our cash burn for the fourth quarter was $4.8 million, down from $5.6 million in the third quarter, and beating our guidance of $4.9 million.
Speaker Change: I'd like to address our differentiated capital light model slide eight as.
Speaker Change: As you can see we have very low cash burn in operating expenses compared to our peers.
Speaker Change: And I am pleased to report that we have reduced our net cash burn for the seventh consecutive quarter.
Speaker Change: Excluding the new net financing of $4 6 million.
Speaker Change: Our cash burn for the fourth quarter was $4 8 million.
Speaker Change: Allen from $5 6 million in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: And beating our guidance of $4 9 million.
Conor Tierney: Now turning to our fourth quarter's financial results on slide nine. The fourth quarter's GAAP operating expenses were $9 million, up sequentially from $7.6 million in the third quarter of 2024. This was primarily due to higher one-time payroll costs and increased rent expenses.
Speaker Change: Now turning to our fourth quarter's financial results on slide nine.
Speaker Change: Fourth quarter GAAP operating expenses were $9 million up sequentially from $7 6 million.
Speaker Change: In the third quarter 2024.
Speaker Change: This was primarily due to higher one time payroll costs and increased rent expenses, resulting from a favorable noncash adjustments in the prior quarter.
Conor Tierney: Resulting from a favorable non-cash adjustment in the prior quarter. These increases were partially offset by lower professional Fourth quarter's non-GAAP operating expenses were $6.8 million, up sequentially from $6.1 million in the prior quarter, due primarily to higher one-time payroll costs, which were partially offset by lower professional fees. We reported a gap net loss of $8.5 million, or $0.93 per share in the fourth quarter, versus a gap net loss of $8.7 million, or $1.01 per share in the third quarter of 2024, beating our internal expectations for the quarter. The decrease in gap net loss is mainly due to lower financing related costs in the fourth quarter, which were partially offset by the higher payroll and rent related drivers as noted above.
Speaker Change: These increases were partially offset by lower professional fees.
Speaker Change: Fourth quarter's non-GAAP operating expenses were $6 8 million.
Speaker Change: Up sequentially from $6 1 million in.
Speaker Change: In the prior quarter due primarily to higher one time payroll costs, which were partially offset by lower professional fees.
Speaker Change: We reported a GAAP net loss of $8 5 million or.
<unk> 93 per share in the fourth quarter versus a GAAP net loss of $8 7 million or $1 one per share in the third quarter of 2024.
Speaker Change: Beating our internal expectations for the quarter.
Speaker Change: The decrease in GAAP net loss is mainly due to lower financing related costs in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Which were partially offset by the higher payroll and rent related drivers had noted above.
Conor Tierney: On a non-GAAP basis, our net loss was $6.3 million or $0.69 per share in the fourth quarter compared to a non-GAAP net loss of $6 million or $0.70 per share in the prior quarter. Net cash used for operating activities decreased to $4.8 million in the fourth quarter from $5.4 million in the third quarter of 2024. Again, we closed the fourth quarter with $22.3 million of cash, cash equivalents, and marketable security.
On a non-GAAP basis, our net loss was $6 3 million.
Speaker Change: <unk> 69 per share in the fourth quarter compared to a non-GAAP net loss of $6 million or <unk> 70 per share in the prior quarter.
Speaker Change: Net cash used for operating activities decreased to $4 8 million.
Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter from $5 4 million.
Speaker Change: In the third quarter of 2024.
Speaker Change: Again, we closed the fourth quarter were $22 3 million of cash cash equivalents and marketable securities.
Conor Tierney: Including capital raised subsequent to the close of the quarter, our total potential liquidity, which includes cash on hand and our ELOC and ATM facilities, is approximately $80 million.
Speaker Change: Including capital raised subsequent to the close of the quarter, our total potential liquidity, which includes cash on hand, and our IRAK and ATM facilities.
Speaker Change: Approximately $80 million.
Conor Tierney: Turning to our guidance on slide 10, we expect cash burn for the full year 2025 to be $25 million. Slightly up versus 2024, primarily due to increased investments required to ramp Apollo to high volume production.
Speaker Change: Turning to our guidance on slide 10, we expect cash burn for the full year 2025 could be $25 million slightly up versus 2024, primarily due to increased investments required to ramp Apollo to high volume production.
Conor Tierney: We also expect a sequential increase in costs in the first quarter related to seasonal factors such as one-time payroll related costs. After the first quarter, we expect cash burn to improve each quarter for the remainder of 2025.
Speaker Change: We also expect a sequential increase in costs in the first quarter related to seasonal factors such as one time payroll related costs.
After the first quarter, we expect cash burn to improve each quarter for the remainder of 2025.
Conor Tierney: Overall, we are encouraged by our performance in 2024. With a strong balance sheet, industry-leading technology, and an extended cash runway, we are well positioned for sustained growth in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker Change: Overall, we are encouraged by our performance in 2024 with.
Speaker Change: With a strong balance sheet industry, leading technology and an extended cash runway, we are well positioned for sustained growth in 2025 and beyond.
Matthew Fisch: With that, I'll pass it back to Matt to wrap things up.
With that I'll pass it back to Matt to wrap things up.
Matthew Fisch: Thanks, Conor. After a transformational year marked by incredible progress across the business, we are unwavering in our commitment to innovation, execution and financial discipline. With Apollo's successful market entry and our extended cash runway, we are well positioned for future growth.
Matt Fish: Thanks Cotter.
Speaker Change: After a transformational year marked by incredible progress across the business, we are unwavering in our commitment to innovation execution and financial discipline.
Speaker Change: With Apollo successful market entry and our extended cash runway, we are well positioned for future growth.
Matthew Fisch: I'm incredibly proud of the AI team and their commitment to improving road safety and saving lives.
Speaker Change: I'm incredibly proud of the AI team and your commitment to improving road safety and saving lives.
Matthew Fisch: Thank you for your time today. We appreciate your continued support and confidence in our vision.
Speaker Change: You for your time today, we appreciate your continued support and confidence in our vision.
Operator: We will now open the call for questions. At this time, I would like to remind everyone that in order to ask the question, press star then the number one on your telephone keypad. We will pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster.
Speaker Change: We'll now open the call for questions.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: At this time I would like to remind everyone that in order to ask a question Press Star then the number one on your telephone keypad, we will pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay. So your first question comes from the line of Brian Keesler.
Brian Kinstlinger: Okay, so your first question comes from the line of Brian Kinstler with Alliance Global Partners. Please go ahead. Hi, this is Kevin for Bryan. Thanks for taking our questions.
Speaker Change: Alliance Global partners. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hi, This is Kevin for Brian.
Speaker Change: Thanks for taking my questions.
Kevin Garrigan: Could you speak a little bit more about the non-automotive opportunities that that AI is exploring? Sure.
Speaker Change: Could you speak a little bit more about the non automotive opportunities that.
Speaker Change: AI is exploring.
Speaker Change: Sure Hey, Kevin This is Matt.
Matthew Fisch: Hey, Kevin, this is Matt. And thanks for joining us today. It's great to have you on the call. First of all, absolutely. Just to put things in context here, when we talk about Apollo. This is really a next generation LiDAR solution from both a market perspective and also from an AI perspective as well. So what we talked about on the call, two things. Number one, it's got incredible range and able to detect objects of very high resolution. And second, the form factor, which is also important for automotive, is incredibly small. I mean, if you were to look at one of these Apollo units, it has a very similar profile to my cell phone.
Speaker Change: And thanks for joining us today, it's great to have you on the call first of all absolutely just to put things in context here when we talk about Apollo.
Speaker Change: This is really a next generation radar solution from Bocom market perspective, and also from an AI.
Speaker Change: <unk> as well.
Speaker Change: So while we've talked about on the call two things number one it's got incredible range and able to detect objects at very high resolution and second the form factor, which is also important for automotive is incredibly small I mean, if you were to look at one of these.
Speaker Change: Apollo units it has very similar.
Speaker Change: Profile from my cell phone.
Matthew Fisch: So why has it sparked so much interest on the non-automotive side? Well, if you think about, if you read some of the news today, for example, relating to safety and security, seeing very far in poor lighting conditions, and high resolution allows us to detect very small objects, for example, so security, perimeter security, safety at airports, where it's important to see whether there's something that doesn't belong in a particular area. Because of Apollo's performance, first and foremost, it's been incredibly popular in that space. We're about seven weeks, six weeks out of CES. We've had so much interest there, we're on the ground now testing with this particular type of use case.
Speaker Change: So why has it sparks so much interest on the non automotive side well if you think about to become the news today for example.
Speaker Change: Waiting to safety and security seeing very far and poor lighting conditions and high resolution allows us to detect very small objects for example security.
Speaker Change: Perimeter security safety and airports, where it's important to see whether it's something that doesn't belong.
Speaker Change: In our particular area because of a pulse performance first and foremost it's bidding.
Speaker Change: <unk> been incredibly popular in that space and since.
We're about seven weeks six weeks out of CES.
Speaker Change: We've had so much interest there were on the ground now testing with this particular type of use case, China U S and Europe things are happening very very quickly in that area.
Matthew Fisch: China, U.S., and Europe, things are happening very, very quickly in that area.
Matthew Fisch: Last but not least, Apollo is a very unifying product for us. It's a set of hardware that works both in automotive and non-automotives. Because of our software-defined liner, we just need to program it differently in each case. And we've been able to get out there and react very quickly, get out there in the field across three continents. and only six weeks time.
Speaker Change: Last but not least apollo's over unifying product for us. It's a set of hardware that works both in automotive and nonautomotive because of our software defined line or are we just need to program it differently.
Speaker Change: In each case, and we've been able to get out there and react very quickly to get out there in the field across three continents.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: In only six weeks time.
Kevin Garrigan: Great, thanks and just one more. Does greater liquidity give you more confidence in meeting OEM financial due diligence requirements?
Speaker Change: Great. Thanks, and just one more does greater liquidity give you more confidence in meeting OEM financial due diligence requirements.
Conor Tierney: Hey, Kevin, this is Conor. I'll take that one. Actually, I'm glad you asked the question, because this is fresh in myself and Matt's head right now, because we recently went through this process with an OEM. And it does for sure, you know, as part of that process, we walk the OEM through our projections, also through our liquidity. And that was an important factor in just getting them comfortable, that we would have the resources ultimately, to get to get Apollo to high volume production. And obviously, as part of that, liquidity is a major thing. And as I alluded to on the call earlier, you know, we have 30 million right now in cash and cash equivalents, and then obviously another 50 million in equity instruments.
Speaker Change: Hey, Kevin This is Conor I'll take that one.
Kevin: Actually I'm glad you asked the question because this is fresh and myself in my head right. Now. So we recently went through this process with an OEM and it does for sure.
Kevin: Part of that process, we will walk the OEM through our projections also through our liquidity and that was an important factor just getting them comfortable that we would have the resources ultimately to get together.
Kevin: To get a call out to high volume production.
Kevin: And obviously as part of that liquidity is a major thing and as I alluded to on the call earlier, we have $30 million right now in cash and cash equivalents and then obviously another $50 million.
Kevin: And equity instruments, and that's obviously, an important contributing factor to getting Oems comfortable.
Conor Tierney: And that's obviously an important contributing factor to getting OEMs comfortable that we have the runway to get there. I think the other part to that is, is just our, our cost structure, and our capital light model, and It's just a matter of fact that because of our low capital burn rate, you know, every dollar that we raise, we're able to stretch further. And that's obviously really important in this kind of environment, especially the macro environment where you have high interest rates and it's hard to raise capital. And then obviously, just given some of the challenging environments in the automotive industry right now, with timelines pushing out, it's really important to have that light capital runway to be able to stretch out your runway and ultimately, you know, roll in line with the same pace that the OEMs are setting.
Kevin: That we have the runway to get there.
Kevin: The other parts of that is is just higher.
Kevin: Our cost structure and our capital light model.
Kevin: Yes.
Kevin: It's just a matter of fact that because of our low capital burn rate.
Kevin: Yeah.
Kevin: Every dollar that we raised were able to stretch further.
Kevin: And that's obviously really important in this kind of environment, especially in a macro environment, where you have high interest rates and its hard to raise capital.
Kevin: And then obviously.
Kevin: Just giving some of the challenging environments in the automotive industry right now.
Kevin: Timelines pushing out it's really important to us.
Kevin: Have that like capital runway to be able to.
Kevin: Our stretch out your runway and ultimately.
Kevin: Sure.
Kevin: <unk> role in line with the same pace that the Oems are setting.
Conor Tierney: And you know, just a testament to that is, you know, if you look at last year, we've been able to operate very leanly. We brought Apollo to market in less than six months, and we've kept the burn rate below $25 million. So we're out there executing at a very, very low burn rate. And I think that's an important thing to take into consideration.
Kevin: And just a testament to that is if you look at last year we.
Kevin: We've been able to operate very.
Kevin: Very cleanly.
Kevin: Apollo to market in less than six months and we've kept the burn rate below $25 million. So we're out there executing at a very very low burn rate and I think thats, an important thing to take into consideration.
Kevin: Great. Thank you.
Kasey Ryan: Thanks, Kevin. Your next question comes from the line of Kasey Ryan with the West Park Capital. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Good progress in the quarter. So congratulations. I had a couple of questions. A lot of times we're talking about high volume and low volume.
Kevin: Thanks, Kevin.
Kevin: Okay.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Keith <unk> with the rest of our capital. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Good afternoon, gentlemen, good progress in the quarter so congratulations on that.
Speaker Change: I had a couple of questions.
Speaker Change: A lot of a lot of times, we're talking about high volume and low volume.
Kasey Ryan: Are you able to frame what high volume means? You know, I think, you know, other companies have framed it certain ways. But is there a number that we say, oh, high volume means north of 10,000 or north of You know, some some some level that like we can sort of Hey, great, definitely appreciate the question.
Speaker Change: Are you able to frame what high volume means I think other companies are framed at certain way, but is there a number that we say Oh high volume means north of 10000 are north of a 1000 or so.
Speaker Change: Some some level that like we can sort of imagine in our minds.
Speaker Change: Hey, Great definitely appreciate the question, let me start.
Matthew Fisch: Let me start on this one. Let's put it in context.
Speaker Change: On this one let's put it in context first of all.
Matthew Fisch: First of all, I'm the only CEO in the LIDAR space who's come from the automotive industry. So let's talk about that first, because I think that sort of overshadows. at the overall volume conversation, but look, what we have going on in the market today outside of China, let's put China aside for the moment, we have, you know, what would be described in automotive terms is a handful of development programs that are happening out there. Okay, it's low volume, meaning in the thousands, maybe there's hundreds of vehicles or maybe a couple of thousand vehicles out there actually running around the roads today, and this transition to high volume, if you will, means that an OEM will come and issue what's called an RFQ, or a request for quote, or what we're calling a mass production, series production vehicle award, which generally starts in the tens of thousands of units and quickly ramps up above 100,000 per year, let's say.
Speaker Change: And the only CEO in the Lidar space has come from the automotive industry.
Speaker Change: Let's talk about that first because I think that sort of overshadows.
Speaker Change: The overall volume conversation, but look what we have going on in the market today outside of China, Let's put China aside for the moment we have.
Speaker Change: B described in automotive terms is a handful of development programs that are happening out there pay its low volume, meaning in the thousands maybe theres hundreds of vehicles or maybe a couple of thousand vehicles out there you are actually running around.
Speaker Change: Roads today.
Speaker Change: This transition to high volume if you will means that an OEM with common issue.
Speaker Change: Whats call, the Rx queue or a request for quote or what we're calling a mass production.
Speaker Change: Serious production vehicle award, which generally starts in the tens of thousands of units and quickly ramp ramps up.
Speaker Change: 100 <unk>.
Speaker Change: Let's say, we haven't seen any of those.
Matthew Fisch: We haven't seen any of those in the U.S. or Europe yet. And this is where you're going to see us come flying out of the gate as a company because we work with a Tier 1 that knows how to and has experience, repeated experience, of delivering 100,000 or more units in a given year. That's a very specialized expertise that comes over many years of practice experience and school of hard knocks learning. I can assure you, when it comes time for those RFQs and those automotive production contracts to come out, you're going to see us with a massive advantage because we work with a tier one that knows how to operate at that level.
Speaker Change: In the U S or Europe yet.
Speaker Change: And this is where youre going to see us come flying out of the gate.
Speaker Change: As a company because we work with a tier one.
Speaker Change: That knows how to it has experienced repeated experience.
Speaker Change: 100000 or more units in a given year.
Speaker Change: That's a very specialized expertise that comes over many years of practice experience in school of hard knocks learning I can assure you.
Speaker Change: When it comes time for those RFP use automotive production contracts that come out.
Speaker Change: Youre going to see us with a massive advantage because we work with a tier one that knows how to operate at that level.
Matthew Fisch: And the OEMs will take that factor into account on the purchasing and supply chain side very, very seriously. No matter how good you are technically, the ability to produce in 100,000 quantities or more on an annual basis is absolutely make or break in automotive. And you're going to see a shine when we get to that point. Thanks to our working model, we joined at the hip with a Tier 1 that knows how to do this already.
Speaker Change: And the Oems will take that factor into account on our purchasing and supply chain very very seriously no matter. How good you are technically the ability to produce and harvest thousand quantities or more on an annual basis is absolutely make or break in automotive and youre going to see.
Speaker Change: Cheyenne and when we get to that point. Thanks sure working model, we joined at the hip with a tier one that knows how to do this already.
Conor Tierney: And just to add to what Matt said, I think the other important point is our product was built with manufacturability in mind. So if you think about all the components that are used in the product. We built that product thinking about high volume production. And then the other thing is, not everybody can work with the tier one, there's a diligence process that has to happen up front. And the tier one knows that you can scale to the millions of units. And that's why I think that's a validation or validation point or an endorsement in itself, that we've been able to, to work and form a partnership with the tier one.
Speaker Change: And just to add to what Matt said I think the other important point is our product is built with manufacturer ability in mind. So if you think about all the components that are used in the product.
We built that product thinking about high volume production and then the other thing is not everybody can work with the tier one theres a diligence process that has to happen upfront and the tier one notes that you can scale to the millions of units and Thats why I think that's it and validation validation point or an endorsement in itself.
Speaker Change: We've been able to.
Speaker Change: Work and form a partnership with the tier one yes cars, referring to three plus years, we spent with continental.
Conor Tierney: Yeah, Conor's referring to the three plus years he spent with Compton. Building our Supply Chain. Yep. Right, okay, terrific.
Speaker Change: Building our supply chain.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Right, Okay terrific and then focusing on automotive some more.
Kasey Ryan: Well, and then, you know, focusing on on automotive What you see in the market as far as people putting out bids and sort of looking for partners for this solution? What's your perception about the level of vehicle? Are they sort of like two plus? Are they actually three plus? What's the mix there? Because it doesn't feel like, well, it certainly doesn't feel like we have any four or five, you know, actually happening, right? What's your sense about about where their appetite is? Capabilities, Right. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker Change: What you see in the market as far as people, putting out bids and sort of looking for partners for this solution.
Speaker Change: What's your perception about the level of vehicle are they sort of like two plus or they are they are they actually three plus.
Speaker Change: What's the mix there because it doesn't feel like well throw it doesn't feel like we have any four or five actually happening right I guess outside of maybe the window or something like that but what's your sense about where their appetite is in terms of Cape.
Speaker Change: Capabilities to put into the cars.
Speaker Change: Alright, yes, yes, so what we're seeing pretty broadly we know theres, one EV maker out there that hasn't spoken kindly about lidar over the last year or so, but let's put that one OEM side.
Matthew Fisch: So what we're seeing pretty broadly, we know there's one EV maker out there that hasn't spoken kindly about LiDAR over the last year or so, but let's put that one OEM aside. We're involved with several, we said, we mentioned this last quarter, and every one of them has a level three program on the roadmap, which includes LiDAR. And there's been a mix of OEMs that have said so publicly over the last two months, and some that have just said so indirectly, if you will, that they're committed to eyes-off, hands-free, and eyes-free driving, which really speaks to level three.
Speaker Change: We're involved with several we said we mentioned this last quarter.
Speaker Change: And every one of them.
Speaker Change: As a level III program on their road map, which includes lidar and Theres been a mix of Oems that have said so publicly over the last few months and some that have just said so indirectly if you will.
Speaker Change: That they are committed to.
Speaker Change: Alright off hand, hence free and ice cream, driving which really speaks to that.
Matthew Fisch: That's the sweet spot that we're seeing.
Speaker Change: Level three that's the sweet spot.
Speaker Change: We're seeing one other part of this is nvidia.
Matthew Fisch: One other part of this is NVIDIA. They have this platform called Hyperion, which is tied to a number of OEMs, in fact. We perform incredibly well there. This is all situation driving. The key missing point for the current generation LiDAR is to see at 300 meters, which covers high-speed driving. This is where NVIDIA is focusing, and necessarily they've been vocal about this as well, and we've been using them as a proxy for what OEMs are demanding in terms of their next solution. Level three is really the sweet spot here, and we're engaged with several OEMs on this topic, and each one of them has a level three program on the roadmap, which includes LiDAR.
Speaker Change: They are they have this platform called <unk> purion.
Speaker Change: Which is tied to a number of Oems attract we perform incredibly well there.
This is all situation driving the key missing point for the current generation riders to see at 300 meters.
Speaker Change: Which covers high speed driving this is ware and videos focusing in this area they've been vocal about this as well and we've been using them as a proxy for what Oems are demanding in terms of their next solution level III.
Speaker Change: It's really the sweet spot here and we're engaged with several Oems on this topic and each one of them has a level III program on that roadmap, which includes lidar.
Kasey Ryan: Okay, terrific.
Speaker Change: Okay terrific and then.
Matthew Fisch: And then So tell me where you see opportunities, or maybe not, you know, and this is sort of trend-wise, right? I know we're not talking about specifics, but sort of outside of You know, consumer auto, you know, sort of talking about trucking. Maybe throw Robotaxi in there, but also, you know, vans and sort of bigger vehicles. You know, do those offer exciting opportunities or are they less interesting because I guess, how much effort are you putting into sort of non, you know, personal Right. I think the best way to look at it is that we're open and highly applicable across all of these markets.
Speaker Change: Talking about well so so so tell me, where or where you see opportunities or maybe not and this is sort of trend trend wise right. I know, we're not talking about specifics, but sort of outside of.
Speaker Change: Consumer auto sort of talking about trucking and maybe it's a robo taxi in there, but also vans and sort of bigger vehicles.
Speaker Change: Do those offer exciting opportunities or are they lots of interesting because of.
Speaker Change: Potential unit size in terms of those markets, but.
Speaker Change: I guess, how much effort are you putting into sort of non U.
Speaker Change: Personal car.
Speaker Change: Markets right.
Speaker Change: I think the best way to look at it it's never open.
Speaker Change: <unk> highly applicable across all of these markets.
Matthew Fisch: Trucking and buses, for example, like you mentioned, that's a lot of weight to slow down.
Speaker Change: Trucking and boxes for example, like you've mentioned.
Speaker Change: Lot of weight to slow down.
Matthew Fisch: Kinstlinger, John Roy, Unknown Executive, Matthew Fisch, Kevin Garrigan, Conor Tierney, In the, we'll call it in the RoboTaxi domain, You see a lot of expansion out there, so a product like Apollo will be very applicable in that space as well. So we haven't confined ourselves to just that passenger vehicle market, if you will. And as I mentioned earlier, the device is very software adjustable. We're running what-if scenarios from one OEM to the next, and giving them turnaround times and proof of concept and software in like a few days or a week, a week and a half in many cases.
Speaker Change: Youre going to have to break earlier than a passenger car would so <unk> seen very smart and a great distance.
Speaker Change: He is very important for heavyweight vehicle, especially one that's operating on the highway.
Speaker Change: In the.
Speaker Change: We're calling the robo taxi domain.
Speaker Change: You see a lot of expansion out there so.
Speaker Change: Like Apollo will be very applicable.
Speaker Change: In that space as well so we haven't confined ourselves to just that passenger vehicle market. If you will.
Speaker Change: And as I mentioned earlier that the devices.
Very software.
Speaker Change: Adjustable we're running what if scenarios from one OEM to the next and given them turnaround times and proof of concept in software and Mike few days or a week. We can have in many cases, so we're able to move very quickly in that regard and we're certainly open to.
Matthew Fisch: So we're able to move very quickly in that regard. We're certainly open to all models.
Speaker Change: All markets.
Kasey Ryan: Okay, and then.
Okay and then.
Kasey Ryan: Two last questions. I know I'm taking a lot of your valuable time and I appreciate it. What do you think for passenger cars sort of like the like unit count is, right? Because I think for level two, oftentimes, where there is LiDAR, it's sort of You know, sort of the like we're on the street, right? As a way most have sex. You know, something between one and six should be the average, but with your solution, maybe we don't need as many. So I'm curious what you think you're. Per Vehicle Count. Yeah, well, look, I think, as you already know, the different markets or the different segments, if you will, have wildly different volumes, say robo taxis at one end, which may have multiple light hours per vehicle versus passenger vehicles that may have fewer light hours per vehicle, but have significantly greater volumes.
Speaker Change: Two last questions I know I'm, taking a lot of your valuable time and I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: What do you think for passenger cars sort of.
Speaker Change: Like like a unit count is right because I think for level two oftentimes, where there is lidar, it's sort of one sensor per card I think.
Speaker Change: Sort of the like.
Speaker Change: Right is that <unk> six.
Speaker Change: Something between one and <unk> should be the average, but with your solution, maybe we don't need as many so I'm curious what you think your average kind of per vehicle count might be in terms of sort of a total cost or total revenue opportunity I guess.
Speaker Change: Per vehicle.
Speaker Change: Yeah, well look.
Speaker Change: As you already know the different markets are the different segments. If you will have different wildly different volumes favorable go tax season went in which may have multiple flight hours per vehicle versus passenger vehicles that may have fewer flight hours per vehicle might have significantly greater volumes.
Matthew Fisch: I'll tell you this, while we hunt in all the spaces, where we're really shining is on that long distance highway driving, and I'll tell you in the passenger vehicle space, it's a hot topic right now with the OEMs competing to roll out a level three driving service. And, you know, typically. You might see one or two LIDARs in those kind of vehicles, but the volumes are much, much higher than, say, in the robotaxi. Let me tell you why it's interesting for us, because one of the things we rolled out and mentioned in the call earlier is the fact that Apollo is operating at 300 meters.
Speaker Change: I'll tell you that's why we hunt.
Speaker Change: All of the spaces.
Speaker Change: Really shiny is on that long distance highway driving and I will tell you in the passenger vehicle space. It's a hot topic right now with the Oems competing to rollout our level III.
Speaker Change: Driving service.
Speaker Change: And typically.
Speaker Change: You might see one or two riders and those kind of vehicles to put volumes are much much higher.
I didn't say in the robo taxi.
Speaker Change: Let me tell you why it's interesting for us because one of the things we rolled out and mentioned in the call earlier is the fact that Apollo is operating in 300 meters.
Matthew Fisch: Inside the cabin of the vehicle. So because it's so small, it tucks right up into the sensor farm, up near the top of the windshield, and greatly decreases the vehicle complexity, you don't have to design a special roof for a car with LIDAR in it. The problem has been that the glass knocks down the range. And because of our unique technology in this regard, especially our 1550 nanometer laser technology, we have the opportunity to make the vehicle design a lot simpler. You don't have to worry about cleaning, for example, and keeping the front lens of the LIDAR clean.
Speaker Change: Inside the cabin of the vehicles, so because it's so small it tucks right up into the sensor form up near the top of the windshield.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Greatly decreases the vehicle complexity, you don't have to design a special routes.
Speaker Change: For a car with lidar in it the problem has been that the glass.
Speaker Change: Knocks down the range and because of our unique technology in this regard, especially our $50 50.
Speaker Change: <unk> nanometer laser technology.
Speaker Change: We have the opportunity to make the vehicle design a lot simpler you don't have to worry about.
Speaker Change: Cleaning for example in keeping.
Speaker Change: Frontline's of Lidar clean.
Kasey Ryan: And so we're seeing a tremendous pull on the passenger. Lower per car, incredibly higher volume. Wright. Right. Yeah, which which is terrific. I mean, and that's just really helpful, you know. Refining, and you know, sort of.
So we're seeing a tremendous Paul on the passenger vehicle side.
Speaker Change: Lower per car.
Speaker Change: Credibly higher volumes.
Speaker Change: Right right, yes, which is which is terrific.
Speaker Change: And that is really helpful I.
Speaker Change: I think.
Speaker Change: Refining and sort of for US who are trying to follow you on the overall market.
Conor Tierney: One last question just about cash spend a little bit. The R&D number, I think, If I wrote this down correctly, it's somewhere four million plus in the quarter. That's not all cash. I'm wondering if you can talk about... What the cash spend in R&D is roughly and if you expect it to be the same and then kind of what Where the R&D goes in terms of direction.
Speaker Change: One last question just about cash spend a little bit the R&D number I think.
Speaker Change: If I wrote this down correctly is somewhere 4 million plus in the quarter. That's on all cash and I'm wondering if you can talk about.
Speaker Change: What the cash spend in R&D is roughly and if you expect it to be the same and then.
Speaker Change: Kind of what.
Speaker Change: Where the R&D goes in terms of direction as it just Apollo support or are we looking at maybe building other.
Conor Tierney: Is it just Apollo support or are we looking at maybe building other Kinstlinger, John Roy, Unknown Executive, Matthew Fisch, Kevin Garrigan, Conor Tierney, Leigh Bannister, Aeye Yeah, so I'll answer the question, the first part of the question right now. I would say in general for the fourth quarter, R&D is probably roughly about half of our spend. If we're thinking about cash versus expense, the cash is probably going to be slightly higher in Q1 just because there's a timing issue. We had some bonuses and we alluded to this on the earnings call, those will be paid out in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Technologies that may be more.
Speaker Change: Needed or asked for by partners down the road.
Speaker Change: Yes, so I'll answer the question.
Speaker Change: The first part of the question right now.
Speaker Change: I would say in general for the fourth quarter R&D is probably roughly about half of our spend.
Speaker Change: We're thinking about cash versus expense.
Speaker Change: The cash is probably going to be slightly higher in Q1, just because there is a timing issue. We had some bonuses and we kind of alluded to this on the earnings call, which will be paid out in the first quarter, but thats just a one time.
Conor Tierney: But that's just a one time item. So a normalized spend that we're talking about is roughly probably about 50% of the overall operating number.
Speaker Change: Item.
Speaker Change: So a normalized spend that we're talking about is roughly probably about 50% of the overall opex number.
Conor Tierney: Okay, I'll take the question on future spend briefly. But we've got, we've got a good hard quarter here, ramping up the samples, which is Serious Production Quoting for Automotive. So it's a big focus for us. But we're seeing more and more of our engineering going towards customer enabled. and Integration. So right now, we're still heavily weighted on Apollo go-to-market activities.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Question on future spend briefly but we've got.
Speaker Change: We've got a good hard quarter here ramping our <unk> sample spaces.
Speaker Change: Table Stakes for formal.
Speaker Change: Serious production quoting for automotive so it's a big focus for us, but we're seeing more and more of our engineering going towards customer, enabling and integration.
Speaker Change: So right.
Right now we're still heavily weighted on Apollo go to market activities. We are starting to look at what's next for example.
Conor Tierney: We are starting to look at what's next. For example, NVIDIA is challenging us in this area, what the next step is. But the biggest shift we're seeing is in go-to-market activities and integration work on the customer. Right.
Speaker Change: With video is challenging us in this area.
Speaker Change: What's the next step is but.
Speaker Change: The biggest shift were seeing is in go to market activities and integration work on customer side.
Conor Tierney: Okay.
Speaker Change: Right, Okay, Okay and then.
Kasey Ryan: And then, not to be too greedy, I'll ask one last question. You seem to be much more Geographically fluid meaning you sort of are pursuing activity in China You Kinstlinger, John Roy, Unknown Executive, Matthew Fisch, Kevin Garrigan, Conor Tierney, Leigh Bannister, Aeye You know, sort of sort of welcome and have opportunities across, you know, most of the significant Where have you not? You know, some vendors don't seem to be participating in China, right, and vice versa, some Chinese vendors. Yeah, I think that's a great observation. Our core philosophy is to expand and scale through partnerships, right?
Speaker Change: <unk> one last question you seem to be much more.
Speaker Change: Geographically fluid, meaning you sort of are pursuing activity in China.
Speaker Change: U S. Obviously in Europe, whereas it feels like a lot of vendors are sort of regionalized for some reason.
Speaker Change: Tell me if that perceptions accurate that you guys do you feel like Youre more.
Speaker Change: Sort of sort of welcome and have opportunities across most of the significant regions.
Speaker Change: We're.
Speaker Change: Some vendors don't seem to be participating China, and vice versa. Some Chinese vendors don't seem to be participating over in the U S.
Speaker Change: Yes, I think thats a great observation.
Speaker Change: Our core philosophy is to expand and scale through partnerships right. It starts with our tier one manufacturing partnership.
Matthew Fisch: It starts with our tier one manufacturing partnership, who, by the way, has a global footprint, right? We can do manufacturing in Texas or Mexico, or in Taiwan, for example. So, in our partnership with ATI, and like Tecton, gives us local manufacturing in China. So, number one, the manufacturing partner is critical, and we felt like with one global partner and then with one partner in China, that covers a lot. By the way, the global partner also has manufacturing capability. as well.
Speaker Change: By the way.
Speaker Change: It has a global footprint, we can do manufacturing in Texas or in Mexico or in Taiwan for example, so.
Speaker Change: And our partnership with ATI in my Tech time gives us local manufacturing in China.
Speaker Change: Number one the manufacturing partner is critical and we felt like with one global partner and with one China partner in China that covers a lot.
Speaker Change: By the way the global partner also have manufacturing capability in Germany.
Matthew Fisch: And then the second piece is Boots on the Ground. Right, when you're engineering problems, software upgrades and things like that are needed. Again, we've got partners in region. that are in this with us, which allow us to feel like we have a lot longer legs, right? And can stretch across the globe. So the answer is yes. And we do it by working through partnerships and not trying to do everything ourselves.
Speaker Change: As well and then the second piece is boots on the ground.
Speaker Change: So when you're engineering problems software upgrades and things like that and there again, we've got partners in region.
They are in this with us which allow us to feel like we have a lot longer lags right and can stretch across the globe.
Speaker Change: Yes, and we do it by working through partnerships and not trying to do everything ourselves.
Kasey Ryan: Okay, terrific. That's helpful. Thank you for the time.
Speaker Change: Okay terrific. That's helpful. Thank you for the time, it's an exciting start to the year end.
Kasey Ryan: It's an exciting start to the year and We look forward to following you as you go through the year. Thanks, Casey.
Speaker Change: We look forward to following as you go through the year. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Casey Thanks, Casey take care.
Jesse Sabelson: Take care. Your next question comes from the line of Jesse Sabelson with the Boral Capital. Please go ahead. Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Congrats on the approval with Hyperion and NVIDIA. Sounds really exciting. One thing I'm curious on is with multiple competitors in the space, all talking with OEMs, there's a lot of variability and, you know, what's the total LiDAR solution package going to cost, right? So there's been a lot of historical contention on, you know, what the pricing per unit could be, anywhere from as little as 100 to over maybe 1000 per unit.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Jesse.
Speaker Change: Both Don Julio deeper capital. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking my question congrats on the.
Speaker Change: Approval with the Purion Nvidia sounds really exciting one.
Speaker Change: One thing I'm curious on is.
Speaker Change: With the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Multiple competitors in the space I was talking with Oems there is a lot of variability.
Speaker Change: But what's the total lidar solution package going to cost right.
Speaker Change: So theres been a lot of.
Speaker Change: Start with retention on with the pricing premium that can be anywhere from as little as 100 to over maybe a 1000 per unit.
Jesse Sabelson: Where in these negotiations with the OEMs do you see pricing landing in the near and medium term?
Speaker Change: As negotiations with the Oems do you see pricing landing in the near and medium term.
Matthew Fisch: Yeah, like I want to be careful not to speak for the OEMs in this regard, but, you know, typically, again, we're talking about next generation LiDAR, okay, which means that it has to be high performing, because next generation, the pattern that we're seeing is at speed driving on the highway. That kind of rules out the $100 device, let's just say, because it's not going to have the performance that's needed to function on the highway, okay?
Speaker Change: Yeah Okay.
Speaker Change: Probably be careful not to speak for the Oems in this regard but.
Speaker Change: Typically again, we're talking about next generation miner, okay, which means that it has to be high performing because next generation.
Speaker Change: The pattern that we're seeing is at speed driving on the highway.
Speaker Change: That kind of rule 100 dollar device, let's just say because.
Speaker Change: It's not going to have the performance that's needed to function off highway okay.
Speaker Change: Hey.
Speaker Change: We're going to have to what we're seeing is a very consistent message about being well below 1000 box sales.
Matthew Fisch: We're going to have to... What we're seeing is a very consistent message about being well below $1,000. Sales price, not our cost, but the sales price. And, you know, again, it's going to depend on the volumes, right? The OEMs, if they're looking at lower volumes, they may give a bid on the pricing. You know, at scale, when you're looking at this many vehicle lines across many OEMs, you know, it's going to have to be selling for $500 or in that range. The fact that we're partnered with, you know, multi-billion tier one that has incredible supply chain leverage, and we think we're going to be unbelievably competitive price-wise in this space because of that supply chain leverage.
Speaker Change: Sales price thats, not our cost, but the sales price.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: Again, it's going to depend on the volumes.
Speaker Change: And as if they are if you're looking at lower volumes, they may give a bit on the pricing.
Speaker Change: At scale when Youre looking at this.
Speaker Change: Many vehicle lines across many Oems.
Speaker Change: It's going to have to be selling for 500 box or in that range.
Speaker Change: The fact headboard partnered with multibillion dollar tier one.
Speaker Change: He has incredible supply chain leverage and we think we're going to be unbelievably competitive price wise in this space because of that supply chain leverage we've got a great architecture, that's inherently lower cost but partner that with.
Matthew Fisch: We've got a great architecture that's inherently lower cost, but partner that with, you know, an $8 billion tier one that can command premium, you know, premium reduction. on components because they're placing orders for other product lines and things like this. We're going to be tough to beat.
Speaker Change: And $8 billion tier one that can command.
Speaker Change: Premium.
Speaker Change: Premium reductions.
Speaker Change: Components, because they are placing orders for other product lines and things like this we're going to be tough to be.
Speaker Change: Hello.
Jesse Sabelson: Great, that's good to understand a little bit further.
Speaker Change: Great. That's good to understand a little bit further and then the other thing on the auto side I'm. Just curious have you guys guided to a timing from ramp up of the Apollo b shipments today to any commercialization with personal auto models in the future and what the materiality would be that you are expecting.
Matthew Fisch: And then the other thing on the auto side, I'm just curious, have you ever guided to a timing from ramp of the Apollo B shipments today to any commercialization with, you know, personal auto models in the future and what the materiality would be that you're expecting? on like a timing basis. Yeah, we haven't given out long term guidance, typically. So, you know, I think that's that's something to stay tuned on. So I don't think we're prepared to go into that right now.
Speaker Change: Unlike a timing basis.
Speaker Change: Yes, we havent given out long term guidance typically.
Speaker Change: So I think that that's something to stay tuned on that side of it we're prepared to go into that right now.
Matthew Fisch: I think what I can say is, you know, the automotive development cycle is once there's a contract of order is two to three years.
Speaker Change: I think what I can say is the Automotives development cycle is once there is a contract awarded us two to three years.
Jesse Sabelson: OK. Great.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Great Alright, thank you for taking my questions.
Jesse Sabelson: Thank you for taking my questions and congrats on your new quarter. Thanks for joining us, Jesse.
Speaker Change: Good afternoon.
Speaker Change: Thanks for joining us Jesse take care.
Operator: Take care.
Operator: And that concludes our Q&A session for today.
Matt Fish: And that concludes our Q&A session for today I will now turn the call over to Matt to AI CEO, Matt. Please go ahead.
Matthew Fisch: I will now turn the call over back to AI CEO Matt Fisch. Please go ahead. Great. Thank you, operator. Thank you all again for joining our call today. We look forward to providing further updates on our progress in our first quarter call.
Matt Fish: Great. Thank you operator, thank you all again for joining our call today.
Matt Fish: We look forward to providing further updates on our progress in our first quarter call have a great day. Thank you.
Matthew Fisch: Have a great day. Thank you.
Matt Fish: Okay.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect. Have a nice day, everyone.
Matt Fish: Ladies and gentlemen that concludes today's call. Thank you all for Jamie you May now disconnect have a nice day everyone.