Q4 2024 Wheaton Precious Metals Corp Earnings Call
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for spending by. Welcome to Wheaton Precious Metals
All I have been placed on mute to prevent any baco noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question in the answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press start and the number one on your telephone kit pad. If you would like to withdraw your question, please press start and the number two. Thank you.
Speaker Change: I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded on Friday, March 14, 2025 at 11 o'clock a.m. Eastern time. I will not turn the conference over to Ms. Emma Murey, Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you, please go ahead . . . . . . . .
Emma Murray: Thank you operator, good morning ladies and gentlemen and thank you for participating in today's call. I'm joined today by Randy Smallwood, Wheaton Precious Metals President and Chief Executive Officer, Gary Brown, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Haytham Hodaly, Senior Vice President Corporate Development, and West Carson Vice President Mining Operations. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
Emma Murray: Please note, for those not currently on the webcast, a slide presentation accompanying this conference call is available in PDF format on the presentation page of our website.
Speaker Change: Some of the commentary in today's call may contain forward-looking statements, and I would direct everyone to review slide two of the presentation for more details. It should be noted that all figures referred to on today's call are in US dollars, unless otherwise noted. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Randy Smallwood, our President and Chief Executive Officer.
Randy Smallwood: Thank you, Emma, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today as we review Wheaton's fourth quarter and full-year results for 2024.
Randy Smallwood: Driven by our diversified portfolio of high quality and long life assets, I am very pleased to report that Wheaton achieved record revenue, adjusted net earnings, and operating cash flows in 2024 in 2024.
Randy Smallwood: We realized annual production of 635 Gold Equal Analysis, exceeding the top end of our production guidance for the year.
Randy Smallwood: The strength of our fourth quarter results was underscored by record quarterly production from Salobo, resulting in record overall gold production for the year.
Randy Smallwood: In 2024, Wheaton remained focused on reinforcing our industry leading growth profile by acquiring four new investments . . . .
Randy Smallwood: Haytham will provide further details on these recent acquisitions, which include a Gold Stream on Montage Gold's Kone Project, the largest streaming transaction completed by a single streamer in the past decade. Thank you very much.
Randy Smallwood: Each of these investments further enhances and diversifies our portfolio by expanding our geographic presence and strengthening our strategic partnerships .
Randy Smallwood: and we are excited to welcome our new mining partners and we look forward to supporting them in advancing these projects.
Randy Smallwood: Wheaton's estimated growth profile is unmatched in our sector. This impressive growth is readily apparent in our five-year production forecast, where we estimate annual production increasing by 40% to 870,000 gold equivalent ounces by 2029.
Randy Smallwood: Along with organic growth from our existing operations, we expect to see inaugural production from nine different assets in the next five years, all of which have received their key permits and are either nearing or already well into construction.
Randy Smallwood: In 2025, alone, several development projects are currently expected to begin production, including Artemis Gold's Blackwater Project
Randy Smallwood: which has already made its first goldpour in late January , B2 Gold's Goose Project in Nunavut, Waterton's Mineral Park Project in Arizona, and Ivan Ho's Platt Reef Project in South Africa.
Randy Smallwood: To further demonstrate our confidence in Wheaton's growth profile, we are pleased to announce a 6.5% increase to our quarterly dividend or a proud that Wheaton's payout ratio continues to be a leader in the Precious Metals sector
Randy Smallwood: We are also proud to be one of only two resource focused companies to be recognized by corporate nights as one of the 2025 global 100 most sustainable corporations . . .
Randy Smallwood: and to be the only streaming company upgraded to Triple A, ESG Rating by MSCI.
Randy Smallwood: These accolades reflect our commitment to support responsible operations across all area of our business and underscore the quality of the mining partners that we collaborate with.
Randy Smallwood: It would also like to mention that last week we announced the winner of our inaugural Future of Mining Challenge
Randy Smallwood: Wheaton, with the assistance of foresight, launched this challenge in September of 2024 to support the mining industry's important goal of delivering essential commodities and materials in a more efficient, sustainable manner.
Randy Smallwood: The 2025 winner is Rethink Milling, whose innovative grinding technology demonstrates immense potential to significantly lower energy consumption, leading to reduced emissions and operating costs and ultimately improve operational efficiencies.
Stay tuned for our 2026 Future of Mining Challenge.
Speaker Change: And with that, I will no hand the call over to Wes Carson, Vice President of Operations, who will provide a more in depth look at our operating results. Wes?
Wes Carson: Thanks, thanks Randy, good morning. Overall production in fourth quarter came in higher than expected, driven by strong out performances at salobo, constancia, and penisquito. Further highlighting the strength of these significant assets in our diversified high quality portfolio.
Wes Carson: in the 4th quarter of 2024, Solobo produced 84,000 ounces of attributable gold, representing record quarterly production, an increase of approximately 17% relative to the 4th quarter of 2023, driven by higher throughput as the ramp-up of the Solobo 3 expansion continued, as well as higher gold grades and recoveries. [inaudible]
Wes Carson: on January 28, 2025, Valley enough the completion of the Slobo 3 wrap-up and continuing improvements in performance at both Slobo 1 and 2.
Speaker Change: On March 4th, 2025, Valle informed Wheaton that it had achieved a sustained throughput capacity of over 35 million tons per annum over a 90-day period, indicating the completion of the second phase of the Slowwood 3 expansion project. [inaudible]
Wes Carson: Following a review of the final completion test, Wheaton anticipates advancing the remaining $144 million of the expansion payment. [inaudible]
Wes Carson: In the fourth quarter of 2024, Constantia produced 970,000 ounces of attributable silver and 18,200 ounces of attributable gold [inaudible]
Wes Carson: An increase of approximately 16% for solar production and a decrease of approximately 18% for gold production relative to the fourth quarter of 2023 The increase in solar production, which represents a quarterly record, was primarily due to higher grades [inaudible]
Wes Carson: The reduced gold production was the result of lower gold grades, as more material was mined from the constancy of pit and reclaimed from stockpile compared with the previous year.
Wes Carson: The decrease in gold grade was partially offset by higher throughput [inaudible]
Wes Carson: HUD Bay announced the gold production in 2025 that expected to be lower than 2024 levels due to additional high-grade gold benches in Papacansia, which remind the head of schedule in late 2024 instead of 2025 as originally planned
Wes Carson: The Pockasha deposit, containing relatively higher gold grays is expected to be depleted in early December 2025
Wes Carson: In the fourth quarter of 2024, Benisquito produced over 2.4 million ounce of a trivial silver, an increase of approximately 138% relative to the fourth quarter of 2023, as prior operations were impacted by a four month long labor strike
Wes Carson: Newmont has indicated that in 2025, co-proc production is expected to decline as mining transitions from the Chili Colorado pit back to the Paniasco pit, which contains relatively lower silver grids.
Speaker Change: On January 22, 2025, Artemis announced the commissioning of the grinding circuit that the Blackwater Project had advanced and milling of first-order commenced [inaudible]
Speaker Change: with the first four of Golden Silver being announced on January 29th, 2025. Commercial production remains targeted for Q2 of 2025.
Speaker Change: also during the quarter-wartons origin mining continued to advance their mineral park project with the installation of new crushing and milling circuits nearing completion [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Project Construction continues to progress on track with first order to the mill expected in Q2 of 2025, followed by an anticipated ramp-up to commercial production during the second half of the year.
Speaker Change: Due to strawout performance in the fourth quarter, we exceeded the upper limit of its annual production guidance in 2024, surpassing the midpoint of the guidance range by approximately 9%
The company anticipates the 2025 GEO production. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: We'll continue to grow from levels achieved in the previous year. This forecast growth is driven by expected stronger attributable production from Antimena, the anticipated start-up of several development projects including Blackwater, Juice, Middle Park, and Flat Reaves, and a stable forecast for slow-mo production. We'll continue to grow from levels achieved in the previous year. We'll continue to grow from levels achieved in the previous year.
Speaker Change: Attribute of Ruction is projected to increase than to mean in 2025 due to expected higher silver grades caused by a higher ratio of copper zinc or versus copper only or in mind in 2025. Attribute of Ruction is forecast to be consistent at slope of 2025, with slightly lower grades as per the mine plan, offset by increasing throughput of slope of 1, 2 and 3 continue to, as we continue to see an improvement in plant availability and overall utilization, complemented by a best in class.
Speaker Change: Reddative Maintenance Culture that has been implemented consistently across the entire site.
Speaker Change: Increased production from the aforementioned assets is anticipated to be partially offset by lower production from Penske to an action stance
Speaker Change: Wheaton's attributable production in 2025 is forecast to be 350,000 to 390,000 ounces of gold, 20.5 to 22.5 million ounces of silver [inaudible]
Speaker Change: 12 and a half to 13 and a half thousand ounce, the GEOs of other metals, resulting in total production of approximately 600,000 to 670,000 GEOs
Speaker Change: Production is forecast to increase at an industry-leading rate of approximately 40% over the next five years to 870,000 GEOS by 2029. Primarily due to expected growth from operating assets, including Antimena and Maramato and development assets, including Blackwater, Platte Reef and the Coney Project.
Speaker Change: From 2030 to 2034, Chiubeel Production is forecast at an average of over 950,000 GEOs in the five-year period and incorporates expected additional incremental production from pre-development assets including Side of the Mango and Congraeos [inaudible]
Speaker Change: That concludes the Operations Review, and with that, I will turn the call over one last time to Gary. Thanks, Wes.
Speaker Change: As described by West, production in the fourth quarter amounted to 187,000 GEOs, a 14% increase relative to the fourth quarter of 2023, primarily the result of higher production from Salobo and Panasquito, with Salobo achieving record quarterly production
Speaker Change: Sales volumes amounted to 143,000 GEOs, a decrease of 8% relative to the fourth quarter of 2023, with the higher production being offset by a 40% increase to the number of GEOs produced but not yet delivered or PBND.
Speaker Change: Strong commodity prices coupled with our solid production base resulted in record quarterly revenue of $381 million in gross margin of $247 million, an increase over the comparable period of the prior year of 21% and 40% respectively
Speaker Change: Of this revenue, 62% was attributable to gold, 35% to silver, 1% to palladium, and 2% to cobalt [inaudible]
Speaker Change: As that December 31, 2024, approximately 164,000 Geos were in PB&D, representing approximately 2.9 months of payable production, an increase from the preceding quarter and at the upper end of our expected range of 2-3 months.
Speaker Change: This was due to a significant increase in quarter over quarter production driven by increased production by Tenskito coupled with record quarter of production at Salobo with this incremental production expected to be delivered in the first quarter of 2025.
Speaker Change: GNA expenses amounted to $10.5 million for the fourth quarter of 2024, and total GNA for the year amounted to $40.7 million, being at the lower end of the original forecasted range. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: For 2025, the company expects that G&A expenses will amount to $50 million to $55 million, with the increase largely resulting from cost associated with the inaugural future of mining challenge coupled with the expiring ATM program.
Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter, we recognized an impairment charge of $109 million relative to the Voices Bay, the MPA, due to the sustained decline in market cobalt prices
Speaker Change: as we're reflecting the impairment charge net earnings amounted to $88 million, with a $35 million global minimum tax expense being reflected into quarter.
Speaker Change: Adjusted net earnings amounted to $199 million, representing a quarterly record for the company. With the $34 million increase from the prior year, you primarily to the higher gross margin.
Speaker Change: Adjusted earnings per share amounted to 44 cents per share, an increase of 21% over the comparable period of the prior year [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Revenue for 2024 increased 26% to approximately $1.3 billion, representing a record for the company, with the increase being primarily due to a 20% increase in realized commodity prices, coupled with the 5% increase in sales volumes.
Speaker Change: of this revenue, 99% was derived from Precious Metals, with 62% attributable to gold, 36% silver, 1% platinum and 1% to cobalt.
Gross March in for 2024, increased by $229 million
to $803 million.
Speaker Change: After negating the items that are non-recurring in nature, including the effect of the $109 million dollar impairment charge on the voice's bake of all its stream, adjusted net earnings increased by 20% to an annual record of $640 million dollars.
Speaker Change: Despite the persistent inflationary environment, Wheaton continued to deliver robust cash operating margins in the fourth quarter, resulting in record quarterly cash flow from operations of $319 million, an increase of over 30% relative to the fourth quarter of 2023.
Speaker Change: and paid a dividend of 15.5 cents per share, an increase of over 3% relative to the prior year.
Speaker Change: During the quarter, Wheaton made total up-front cash payments of approximately $115 million relative to mineral stream interest [inaudible]
Speaker Change: including $44 million relative to Kermok, $40 million relative to Marmodo, $25 million relative to Mineral Park, and $6 million relative to Ken Graibos
Speaker Change: Offsetting these outflows with the temporary repayment of the upfront cash payment of $13 million relative to El Domo . . .
Speaker Change: This repayment, which will be re-advanced in the future, was made by Silver Corp in order to stop the accrual of delay houses owed to Wheaton.
Speaker Change: In addition, the company made dividend payments totaling $70 million. Overall net cash inflows amounted to $124 million in the fourth quarter, resulting in cash and cash equivalence at December 31st of $818 million.
Liz Cash Balance
Speaker Change: Combined with the fully undrawn $2 billion revolving credit facility and the strength of our forecasted operating cash flows, positions the company exceptionally well to satisfy its funding commitments and provides us with the financial flexibility to acquire additional creative mineral stream interest.
Speaker Change: Given the strength of Wheaton's balance sheet and forecast of cash flows, the company has elected to not renew its ad-the-market equity program under which no shares have been issued.
Speaker Change: As mentioned by Randy, the board has declared a dividend of 16.5 cents per share, a 6.5% increase from the dividend of the prior quarter, Payable to Shareholder's record on April 1st, 2025. After declaring
Speaker Change: Record levels of dividends in 2024, the company has now returned over $2.3 billion in dividends to investors since inception, which notably represents over 60% the amount of equity ever raised by the company.
Haytham: That concludes the financial summary and with that I will turn the call over to Haytham.
Haytham: Thank you, Gary. Following the record number of deals we announced in 2023, the corporate development team saw yet another busy year in 2024, committing 910 million on four precious metals transactions, resulting in the addition of multiple top tier assets, further adding to our already impressive development project pipeline.
Haytham: I presented the deals of our stream with montage, gold, relative to the Coney project on our last quarterly call, the largest streaming transaction by a single streamer in nearly a decade.
Haytham: Since then Montage has announced that construction had commenced and that significant progress is being made to rapidly advance and de-risk the project which remains on track to meet the expected first goal for in mid-2027
Haytham: Once fully ramped up, Coney is forecast to become our second largest gold-producing asset for its first five years of production and third largest producing asset overall
Haytham: Additionally, in December , we announced a transaction with allied gold corporation and respect in respect to the Kermok Gold Project located in Ethiopia. Kermok is a fully permitted, high quality development project that we believe offers significant exploration potential. The Kermok Gold Project is a fully permitted, high quality development project that we believe offers significant exploration potential.
Haytham: Kermok is set to be the first commercial gold mine in Ethiopia and is supported by a team who has approved an operating track record. A attributable gold production is forecast average over 16,000 ounces of gold per year for the first 10 years of production and Wheaton anticipates receiving ounces in the second half of 2026.
Speaker Change: Only a few weeks ago, Allied announced a strategic partnership with UAE-based Ambrosia investment holding to crystallize value on a portion of its satiola mine in addition to participation in a private placement, which when combined, generated proceeds of over 500 million.
Speaker Change: Allen has indicated that these proceeds will be used in part for the further development of Kermuk, providing crucial financing and further derisking the project.
Speaker Change: We are excited to partner with the allied team who is a strong operational background and look forward to supporting them along Kermuk's path to production.
Speaker Change: Lastly, subsequent to the quarter, we announced an amendment to the Blackwater Precious Metals Purchase Agreement whereby the amount of payable silver received by Wheaton will now be determined based on a fixed ratio of silver to gold ounces rather than fixed recoveries.
Speaker Change: This amendment presents a win-win solution for both Wheaton and our partner, accelerating the receipt of payable ounces to Wheaton, while the additional 30 million payment is expected to fully fund Artemis as they enter the final stages of ramping up to commercial production, which is anticipated for the second quarter of 2025.
Thank you, Haytham [inaudible]
And thank you Gary. Great.
Speaker Change: for the integral role that you have played in the last 17 years. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Many of you know already know that Gary will be stepping down as the CFO at the end of this month Gary's legacy will be marked
Speaker Change: by a strong financial foundation, a culture of excellence, and a focus on sustainable growth.
Speaker Change: I am immensely grateful for his contribution, and I think I speak for the entire Wheaton team and stakeholders in wishing him all the best in this next chapter of his life [inaudible]
Thank you.
Speaker Change: In summary, 2024 was a very strong year for Wheaton, distinguished by several key highlights.
Speaker Change: With production of 635,000 gold equivalent ounces, we exceeded our annual guidance generating record cash flows of over $1 billion in distributing record dividends of over $280 million in dollars.
Speaker Change: Our pipeline of development projects was further de-risked by construction advancements in the receipt of various key permits by our partners. Further strengthening our impressive organic growth profile of over 40% in the next five years.
Speaker Change: We continued to grow our asset base with the addition of four new acquisitions this year, adding further diversification by commodity, operator, region and development stage .
Speaker Change: Our balance sheet remains one of the strongest in the industry, providing ample capacity to continue adding a creative high quality streams into our portfolio.
Speaker Change: We declared a record level of dividends in 2024 and after raising our 2025 annual dividend we'll continue to provide one of the highest dividend payout ratios in the sector
Speaker Change: And lastly, we continue to demonstrate leadership in sustainability with sectored eating ESG ratings and external recognition. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: So with that, I would like to open up the call for questions. Operator?
Speaker Change: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question in the answer session. Should you have a question? These guys star a fault by the one on your telephone keyboard. You should wish to cancel the request. These press star a fault by the two. If you're using your speaker phone, please leave the handset before pressing any keys.
Speaker Change: Thank you, on your first question, concern the line of Lawson Winder from back of America Securities, please go ahead
Speaker Change: Yeah, thank you very much operator and hello Randy and team congratulations on a fantastic 2024 and and then also Gary to you congratulations on a fantastic career Wheaton and all the best going forward
Lawson Winder: First of all, I wanted to start off on the dividend. I think the market has been pretty impressed with the increase that you guys have demonstrated with the announcement last night. But the payout based on your operating free cash flow.
Lawson Winder: in 2024 is a little bit lower than the sort of 20 to 30 percent range that you talked about in the past. Is there a thought to maybe push that a little bit higher going forward? Sure.
Lawson, it's Randy. Thanks Colin.
Speaker Change: So if you see us with an even stronger cash balance and factoring in of course commitments that we have we do have quite a bit of construction going on over the next while so we'll be co-funding with the operators to get these assets up and running.
Speaker Change: that we want to keep committing to that progressive dividend. I think moving it up at the rate that we did this year allows us to do that. We have some commitments coming up this year. I know Haytham's got a long list of opportunities out there in terms of helping fund projects coming in and adding to our growth profile even more.
Speaker Change: and so it's really coming down to that balance and I would say that the best way to sort of estimate that is look at how much cash we have on hand during third or fourth quarter and that's going to be a real good indicator of what we're going to do the following year and at this time we felt we had that extra capacity this year.
Speaker Change: Okay, yeah, that's really helpful context. And just, you know, thinking about that capital deployment,
Speaker Change: In the pipeline, and we often talk about the size of deal and the type of deal, but I mean, if you just look at the total deal, could you see the possibility of deploying the same amount of capital in 2025 as 2024?
Speaker Change: Yeah, so thinking about that way, and then thinking about that in terms of the contractual obligation, so you guys have disclosed about $882 million contractual obligations. Does that, to what extent does that influence how much you feel you could deploy in 2025? [inaudible]
Sir, maybe I'll take that question, Lawson, good morning. [inaudible]
Lawson Winder: Just with regards to how much we could potentially deploy in 2025, let me just go back and give you a little bit of history over the last, I'd say, you know, 10 plus years, on average, we've deployed over $800 million a year.
and that's not that's on a creative high-quality transactions.
Lawson Winder: We continue to see in our current profile opportunities that range anywhere from 100 or, you know, up to as much as 400 million dollars. There is the odd one that is somewhere between 500 and a billion dollars. So we do see an opportunity to continue to deploy a lot of capital. That being said, we're only going to do it in a very creative manner and very, I would say... [inaudible] I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry
Lawson Winder: Man are similar to what we've actually done in the past. We're not trying to do every deal we're trying to do the best deals and we're trying to do it with the best price.
Lawson, I would add...
Speaker Change: You know, currently what we're seeing is a lot of investment in the gold space, you know, clearly having gold break through $3,000 earlier today, you know, it's a very strong gold market and we're seeing a lot of investments in that. So most of the transactions we're looking at right now is gold streams on gold assets.
Speaker Change: The copper market will wake up at some time, you know, when you start looking at long-term demand...
Speaker Change: and what we've typically seen is that copper is, it's a much more capital intensive space and there's a much higher need for copper and copper.
Speaker Change: So, you know, in the gold space we tend to see, you know, three, five, maybe $700 million deals as we've shown.
Speaker Change: But, boy, you know, when you start getting into the copper space, that's when you start seeing the billion dollar plus. And so, you know, we have to make sure that we're prepared for that when that when that copper market does, when we start seeing some reinvestment into the copper space.
Okay, that's helpful, and then just...
Speaker Change: Maybe just a bit of a modeling detail question on the on the total contractual obligations for 2025. How much of that 882 do you expect to deploy in this this quarter? [inaudible]
And what are the kind of moving parts driving that?
Speaker Change: Well, this quarter is just about done, so in terms of the first quarter itself. I mean, you know, clearly, Solobo Valle has been successful in terms of satisfying the second phase, so that pay will be made shortly.
Speaker Change: I'm not sure the actual day, whether it falls into this quarter or not, but we're going through the process of getting that done. They've definitely satisfied that. So, you know, that's going to be the first one. We've got active construction on all the other projects and stuff. I don't know if we've got a quarterly breakdown. But, um...
I love you.
Speaker Change: Randy Set is probably going to be pretty stratified across the board quarters. [inaudible]
Fantastic. Again, great quarter, guys. Thanks for taking the questions.
Thank you, Lawson.
Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question. Transfer the line of Tanya Jakusconek from Scotia Bank. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Oh, great. Thank you very much for your questions and Gary. Good luck. Your next adventure.
Thanks, Anya.
Speaker Change: I just wanted to turn back to some modeling questions if I could. Thank you for the color on the outflows of the commitment. Maybe just as I think about the year and assuming.
you know obviously commodity product
Speaker Change: Matt, which they don't, but you do your production based on pricing anyways. I know that we have the new minds contributing about that 20 to 25,000 Geos towards the latter part of the year. How should we think about the first half? [inaudible] I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry
The second half is at the...
Speaker Change: 47-48-2, I would think it's about 45-55, 45 in the front half, 55 in the back half [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Again, my start-up is challenging in terms of picking production levels and how fast you can ramp up, you're going to test the system, and if it works, you test it a little bit more, and if it works, you test it a little bit more, or you have to step back a bit, right? So it's always a tricky process, and so it's always tough to sort of pick off that. That's all.
Speaker Change: I would definitely say we will definitely see a bias towards the latter half of the year in terms of production but I would characterize it about 45% up front and 55% in the second half
Speaker Change: Andy, what other operations within your portfolio has a seasonality to it that I should be aware of, or any downtime?
Brandy: Hmm, I let West talk to that on the operations side [inaudible]
Wes Carson: Sure, the main one Tanya is Solobo and Solobo does have a rainy season generally in the first quarter so we do see slightly lower production from Solobo and that wraps up through the year. That being said over the last couple of years they've done quite well. They installed a new pumping system in the bottom of the pit a couple of years ago and that really has mitigated a lot of the challenge that they had previously around that rainy season. Most of our other operations are not really seasonally affected. Solobo would be the largest single one for sure.
Speaker Change: and then we have to have any great differential in the second half or any maintenance downtime for the second half.
Speaker Change: Nothing out of the ordinary. It's pretty standard across the year and everything. We don't have the major... In the last couple of years, we've had some fluctuations on, say, Constantia with Papa Contra, coming in and out. That's reasonably flat across the year. And really, Pensacito will be the same there in Pinyasco for most of the year. So no significant change is kind of over the year. It really is.
Speaker Change: and those operations coming on in the latter part of the year that makes a difference. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Okay, that's very helpful, and I guess I should add the D-DNA, but-
Is that a hopeful ask? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Sorry, your line is kind of, can you just repeat that question? Oh, sorry, I was hoping to get an idea for your depreciation or is that a hopeful ask for guidance for now?
You know, I...
Depletion, we forecast mine-by-mine, you know, I think-
Speaker Change: You know, I wouldn't expect it to deviate significantly from, you know, what Q4's depletion was, but, you know, we're forecasting roughly, you know, $300 million in depletion over the year.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's very helpful. Thank you. And then I just wanted to turn if I could to just the deal space and thank you for sharing us on the deal side and
Speaker Change: The opportunities that you're seeing on the gold space and I think that Randy you mentioned a lot of them is in helping find that development stage project I just wanted to clarify that's what I heard.
Speaker Change: Number one, and number two, that's what it is, okay, perfect. Number two, I do understand there are some royalties for sale as well and some in sort of bigger size. Wondered that that was something you were also looking at separate from the streams. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: We look at everything kind of, definitely. We have to understand what's going on out there and we weigh every opportunity against the other opportunities we have in the five points.
Speaker Change: Our preference is streams, Tanya, but, you know, we feel that they're a much stronger business model than the royalties, but existing royalties that are auctioned off will always have a look at and try and get a sense.
Speaker Change: You know, sometimes we scratch our heads of values being paid for these royalties but, you know, especially on, you know, different projects and such but
Speaker Change: We'll look at them and see if there's a space for them in our portfolio.
Speaker Change: All and all, it's still about trying to find good quality Precious Metals production for our shareholders.
Randy Smallwood: And I'll just add to a comment, Randy made earlier, for the last little while, a lot of the opportunities given the strong commodity price and the Precious Metals that is...
Randy Smallwood: have resulted in Wheaton looking at streams on these high-margined press melt assets. We are starting to see some polymetallic assets with a good by-product, press melt by-product that are coming our way. So, you know, we're probably 50-50 split on those going forward.
Randy Smallwood: Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. And then how do you think of the opportunities from a geographical standpoint? I only say that because the couple of your last ones were based in Africa. And I'm just thinking of how do you see your exposure? Do you feel that that's enough Africa or, you know, are you back to North and South America just wondering geography wise? [inaudible]
Randy Smallwood: So I can tell you this, I can tell you one of the last few transactions that we did, yeah you're right, there was a couple two or three that were in Africa. It wasn't because we had a focus on Africa, it was because that is where the highest quality opportunities lay at that given point in time. I'm looking at my list of opportunities for the next let's say 12 months.
Randy Smallwood: and it is there are none in Africa at this point so we are looking globally but you know I think generally speaking we've exhausted probably some of the highest quality assets in Africa from a stream perspective and looking elsewhere at this point.
Speaker Change: You know, it's not so much the continent itself, Tanya, it's a country by country basis. I mean, some of the most stable jurisdictions in the world are in Africa in terms of longevity and security around mining and so, you know, it's...
Speaker Change: It's something that you have to really assess that. And I would add that the one other aspect that we really focus on isn't so much even country risk, it's community risk.
Speaker Change: It looks like a new area for us. Haytham and I and the rest of the team have been looking in Africa for many years now.
Speaker Change: I would almost suggest that perhaps some of our peers have learned some lessons and are factoring in a bit more political risk in their own valuations and now it's a more competitive market. We always have...
Speaker Change: Factored in political risk as part of our evaluation process. I do think that that might be a bit of a reflection is it might not be so much a change in our approach but it changes some of our peers approach from a political risk perspective and I think that has opened up some opportunities for us. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Now, I appreciate that. I was just looking at it from a portfolio basis overall. And so, Haytham, I think you said most of what you're looking is outside of Africa because it's safe to assume most of it is North South America.
Ah, yeah. Safe to assume that.
Speaker Change: Okay, thank you so much for taking my questions, really appreciate it, and again, Gary, good luck on the next chapter. Thank you. Thanks again, Johnny. Nice, thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and your next question comes in the line of Brian MacArthur from Raymond James, Please go ahead.
Brian McArthur: Good morning and thank you for taking my question and again best wishes Gary on your next chapter going forward.
Brian McArthur: My question is maybe philosophical, but I'm interested. We've had a couple of amendments to
Brian McArthur: Precious Metal Market, but I'm curious whether a genesis of the transactions is more, as a company to develop these projects and need more.
Brian McArthur: Capital, so you put it in and get a get a get a return, or is it more that you both see a pretty good? [inaudible]
Um...
Brian McArthur: Precious Metal Market, and there's an opportunity for both of you to improve the projects up front to what you really thought they were to begin with.
and therefore get a better return. [inaudible]
Brian McArthur: for both of you or maybe those are just one-offs. And I guess if it's the situation where you can advance projects by putting more capital in the benefit of both of you, is that something I should think about you could be doing on some of your other PPMAs and it's an additional. Thank you very much.
How do you have growth going forward?
Brian McArthur: Yeah, I mean over over the last I would say two to four years we've become incredibly creative on how we structure our transactions and obviously the given the lack of equity markets the
Brian McArthur: Expensive death that's out there, we've actually been looking for ways to continue to expand on our high quality streams, Brian .
Brian McArthur: that is something we'll continue to do and yeah, there are some...
some I would say. [inaudible]
Brian McArthur: Methodologies that we've incorporated that not only give us additional exposure to a stream but give us additional protections on the streams and ensuring that we continue to get the streams in the manner that we've actually valued them. So by doing a lot of these...
Brian McArthur: and revisions that we've done over the last couple of years. We have protected ourselves and ensured that we have a solid profile continuing on regardless of whether there's delays by our partners or not.
Speaker Change: And sorry, because I just follow up because I thought that was a great point you made Haytham but in all of this I can assume the security of the additional stuff is as good as the original. Oh.
Brian McArthur: Or batter, is that a fair assumption from your perspective? Absolutely, and I would say given what we've seen in the industry not within Wheaton but elsewhere, that is even more important than ever. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Great. Thanks very much for the color on that. That's very helpful.
It's a pleasure, Brian.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and your next question comes on the line of Daniel Major from UBS. Please go ahead.
Hi, can you give me a, okay? [inaudible]
You bet, N.
Great, thanks. Yeah, a few questions. The first one...
Speaker Change: Thinking about the structure of the Montage Consection, it's quite the front.
Speaker Change: loaded in terms of share of offtake from the asset. Is this something, you know, an evolution of the type of deal you're looking for going forward, kind of more front-loaded type repayment schedule, or is this just specific to the transaction? .
Daniel: Daniel, you know, this was a unique opportunity to supply.
Daniel: The bulk of the financing to get this project built, you know, one of the other major equity investors in Montage, the gen also stepped in and supplied it a bit of capital but...
Daniel: Small cost-overrun facilities that are both being supplied by Sigeon and Wheaton, but, but...
Daniel: But, you know, that's only in the event of. And so, so to be able to move this project forward, you know, based fully on stream funding is a unique
Daniel: Aspect, we haven't seen a lot of that in the industry and I think it's really an indication . . . .
Daniel: of some of the opportunities that we see out there to continue to grow our own business.
Daniel: but also being a supportive partner. The flexibility of a stream, Ralph, to bank debt is very attractive and so...
Speaker Change: See, you're right, when you look at this one, it's very front end load, it's starting off at, you know, just around 20% of the gold production But dropping down long term to a number closer to 5% of the gold production
and that is a very similar from Montages perspective. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: It looks like project that, it's got a lumpy at the front end while the project gets up and running and then it gets paid off in those early years and then they have a bit of a residual tail around the stream that the Carey's on. So we think it's a great...
Speaker Change: Unique Approach, you know, we've definitely had some interest from other companies looking at this because the appeal of this versus dealing with them.
Speaker Change: with Project Debt and the flexibility, the inherent flexibility comes with it.
just so much more attractive.
Speaker Change: In any project obviously a company as they're building a mine they want to get their payback as fast as possible and as you can see from the way we structured it we are also getting payback during that same upfront end and so you know that we're going into a high quality asset that can give us that payback quickly that's always positive and I would also say this position is as well from a security ranking perspective so everything we've done with that specific asset has been has been to protect us and to provide as much capital
Speaker Change: Littleback is possible, so we're very excited about that opportunity.
Speaker Change: OK, thanks. Maybe just follow on that. When you look at the risk profile against the valuation, do you feel like this is an approach of...
Speaker Change: being a much larger proportion of the funding is a high risk from your side.
Speaker Change: It absolutely is higher risk, but that being said, I would also say that that's where the opportunity lies. We've got the capital to do it and we're getting much higher returns to reflect that higher risk as well, so...
Speaker Change: Definitely from a risk-return perspective it makes sense. And Gary, would you want to add something to that? Yeah, you have to remember that like, you know, we're pretty much the
Gary: Only creditor at the table with this type of structure so you know that gives us control you know if you know a downside kind of scenario manifests. Thank you very much.
Gary: It gives us a lot more control of, you know, how we navigate that process. And we, you know, we're a very patient capital provider. So, you know, we're, we're going to be
Gary: Aligned with our partner to get them through that situation and get the operation up and running again, whereas, you know...
Gary: That providers may not have that same intent. So we actually think that it's in some ways it's less risky.
Speaker Change: Okay, thank you. Then the next question again, to follow up on the question, the answer you get around the list of opportunities going forward and then not.
Speaker Change: Being in Africa, first quantum has spoke about potential stream financing in Zambia. Should I take that common as you're not in that process?
Speaker Change: I would say that process hasn't officially started yet. I think they've been talking about it for a while and there's obviously interest to look at all high quality assets on our part. [inaudible]
Okay, thanks, and we'll...
Speaker Change: One more if I could just on the profile through the year you mentioned about produce but not delivered volumes being high and then principally unwinding in the first quarter. Can you give us any guide on that? Should we just assume that they normalize in Q1 or is it going to be over the first half or any sensor?
Speaker Change: Midpoint, you know, over two to three months, estimate in Q1 and then kind of hover there for the rest of the year. But, you know, we can never predict that with pinpoint accuracy.
Buh-bye.
Speaker Change: So 20,000 pounds, 25,000 pounds, Delta on the quarter, is a reasonable assumption.
Yeah.
Sita, thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and your next question comes from the line of fill-in-dub Dalby from Berrenberg, please go ahead to the end of the line of fill-in-dub Dalby,
Speaker Change: Hi, yeah, good morning, Randy and team, thanks a lot for the call. Just one question really for me is, Ram Salova, obviously, phenomenal court of there, really demonstrating what's achievable from that asset.
Speaker Change: But, you know, given, yes, still firmly cornerstone asset for Wheaton, but there's been sort of a bit of uncertainty around the sort of longer term production profile there, obviously by late last release of Technical Report in 2022.
Speaker Change: I've seen a few adjustments in terms of throughput and great expectations so yeah really my question is um you know could you possibly map out what your sort of internal expectations are for the production profile out to logo out to say 2030 and then sort of a general long term be there that would be very helpful thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah, that's a question. I mean, really the way we're seeing it with celobo is is barely static over the next while we we do see grades
Speaker Change: starting to trend down a little bit, but same as most open pits as you go through different phases when you get to the lower part of a phase, the rates go up, and then really they go back down as you get up to the other parts. It's fairly static as you go across. I think one of the exciting things, though, is if you look at some of the announcements that Valley-based Metals has had over the past while, there is significant potential for further expansion at Solobo, and I think we will see a lot of that. I mean, many of the announcements on additional capital
Speaker Change: Drouin Precious Metals Corp. We'll see benefits of that going forward. So for right now we've modeled it as reasonably flat, but I think you could potentially see some upside as those capital investments coming.
Wes Carson: Okay, thanks for that. So yeah, so we needed about two hundred and seventy thousand ounces in 2024, so if I'm really correctly there, you sort of think fairly static around that level to say to sort of 20, 27, 20, 28 before maybe starting coming off of it.
Yep, yep, that's irismo [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Okay, and then yeah, sorry, just following up on the conversation around expansion and obviously the talk of the central fourth line there. Do you continue to have those conversations? Has there been any any sort of progress there in the last sort of six months that you can talk to? Okay.
Speaker Change: It's still in steady phase with Valley. I would say, I mean, we continue to be engaged on with them, as really our most significant partner on all those discussions. But as they go through those studies, we'll continue to have those discussions with them. [inaudible]
Wes Carson: The other thing will, that's notable, is they've been talking about it more and more publicly. This whole idea is to low both 3.5 and adding another 6.0 intense random capacity is something they're referencing often. But like Wes said in the study phase, it is not in our profile at all, so that would all be upside to us. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Okay, understood. Thanks very much Emma, thanks Wes and the team and all the best to Gary for your next chapter. Thanks a lot.
Thanks, Willie.
Speaker Change: Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Larry Lee from the ABC, please go ahead.
Larry Liu: Hi, Randy Haytham West, and congrats on a successful career, Gary. I would like to circle back to talk a little bit about transactions.
Speaker Change: So, we didn't have the really strong focus in gold streaming transactions in the past, but as you know, silver is also a precious metal, and silver is definitely a wheat and CNA. So, I guess long story short, with gold already reaching all time highs, should we expect wheat and start taking advantage and be more active in its silver space?
Thank you for joining us. See you next week.
Speaker Change: Thanks for the question, Larry. I would love to find opportunities where we could add additional silver. Unfortunately, silver comes as a bribe product typically of
Pauline Metallic Assets,
Speaker Change: So it's, you know, although the focus is precious metals, I wish we could say that we'd be, we have a way of actually diving more into silver, into high quality assets. I can tell you that, you know, when we look at these things, we look at and transact in the current environment. It does not necessarily mean...
Speaker Change: just because commodity prices have risen that we're paying spot prices on our precious metal stream, whether it be gold or silver. So, we will always transact so we're getting a solid return in the context of the environment that we're in. [inaudible]
Haytham: Absolutely, that's fair, thanks Haytham. Next question kind of focuses a little bit on the black water, the recent amendment to the stream agreement.
Speaker Change: I'm just wondering how much of the expansion for black waters is affected into a long-term guidance now that the silver streaming is based on the throughput?
Speaker Change: Well, the reason we've done that whole transaction is to simplify the overall process and at the same time it accelerates the production of silver that we get in our portfolio. So you get a lot more catmore silver up front, you get a lot more capital up front in a strong commodity price environment. But, you know, if you look at where we're actually headed with that asset, we're pretty optimistic that they're going to outperform what they're originally saying as well. So I'll leave it with that. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: I'm West, you want to? Yeah, maybe just add that they are obviously continuing to look at the expansions there and what that looks like. I mean, they're looking to move into those reasonably quickly. I think, I mean, it, I mean,
Speaker Change: and I think overall what we've got modeled in our long term is the same thing that you would have seen publicly right now, but there is discussion on hoping to move those things forward sooner rather than later. It's definitely the benefit of that asset to get those expansions in sooner.
Speaker Change: Perfect, sounds good. Thanks so much Haytham and Wes. I have just one last question, and it's focusing on the voicey's bay impairment that was mentioned in the press release.
Speaker Change: So I'm just wondering how much of the impairment, what's the result of the weakening cobalt price, versus a change in your production estimates, or a change in discount rate that's being applied to the valuation process for that?
It's virtually all cobalt press.
Speaker Change: Awesome. Sounds good. Right. Thanks for my production profile point. I mean, they announced that they're fully into the undergrounds now and we're actually seeing that production side very positively at the moment.
Speaker Change: Yeah, perfect, that's what I thought too, so I was thinking it would slightly offset, but thanks for much team for taking my questions, and of course, best wishes, Gary.
Thanks again, Larry. Thanks, sir.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and your next question, concerned line of Martin Pradier from Bergata, Spiesgullahead.
Martin Pradier: Thank you very much for taking my question. I want a little bit more details on what you expect for 2025 and 2026 for Goose, Mineral Park, Blackwater, and Platte Reef.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Martin Pradier: So in 2025, the four together, we would suggest 20 to 25,000 GEOs, so that's accounting for, you know, a half year startup and of course a ramp up after that. The following year, it won't be quite into full production in 2026, but I made 2026, we should be hitting our stride. I mean, a full year production at Black Waters, about 30,000 GEOs to our cap. So we'll have about that in our 2026 profile. All right.
Okay, and how big is Miller Park in 2026? [inaudible]
about 10 to 12,000 Geos would be a reasonable assumption.
Great, thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you and your next question, Concentral line of Florida Archbord from Addison, please go ahead.
Florida Ashbourne: Thank you and if I could proper my congratulations as well on an excellent year and an excellent call from my best wishes to Gary of course.
Speaker Change: I know that counterfactuals can be difficult but I was interested by your answer to the cobalt question and I just wonder I'm sure you've seen the cobalt price in the last few days which is suddenly 50% higher than it was a few days before that . . . .
Speaker Change: and I wonder if the cobalt price on the 31st of December have been what it is today. Would you have impaired the asset?
uh...
Speaker Change: Yeah, it's always difficult to pick the price that you're going to be using and especially in these polish out times. I think the review there.
Speaker Change: 16 months and I think the recent rally that we've seen is being driven by the DRC kind of stemming production, so we're just not sure that we can rely upon that to continue.
Speaker Change: That wasn't really your question. If the prices were to remain at these levels, would we have compared it? Probably not, but I think it's unlikely that
Speaker Change: You know, we'll be talking about impairments or impairment reversals on voices moving forward. We just wanted to take that noise out of the equation.
Speaker Change: No, I'm just it now, I understand. Thank you, but I appreciate it nonetheless. Thank you, Gary. Thank you, team very much and Gary, we will miss you very much in London.
Charlie has been a been a pleasure
Speaker Change: Thank you, everyone, for your time today. In closing, we're pleased to have reported a record-setting quarter to close 2024. Wheaton's high-quality, long-life portfolio of assets, sector-leading growth profile and commitment to sustainability provide their shareholders with a solid outlook for the future as one of the best vehicles for investing into the gold and fresh smell space.
Speaker Change: I'm sincerely thankful to all of our stakeholders for being part of Wheaton's success and I look forward to another strong year ahead. I have never been more excited about the future of the company as I am today. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you, and this concludes today's call. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect with the next.