Q4 2024 LENSAR Inc Earnings Call
As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the call over to Cameron read out a bitch of Burns Mcclellan Mr read out of it. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Thank you operator, good morning, and welcome to the ones, our fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results Conference call earlier. This morning, the company issued a press release, providing an overview of its financial results for the quarter and full year ended December 31 2024.
Speaker Change: This press release is available on the Investor Relations section of the company's website at Www Dot <unk> Dot com.
Speaker Change: Joining me on the call today is Nick Curtis Chief Executive Officer of lens, or who will review the company's recent business and operational progress. Following his comments, Tom Staab Chief Financial Officer funds are will provide an overview of the companys financial highlights before turning the call back over to the operator to facilitate answering any questions you may have.
Speaker Change: Today's conference call will contain forward looking statements, including those statements regarding future results unaudited and forward looking financial information as well as the Companys future performance <unk> achievements.
Speaker Change: These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may cause the company's actual results performance or achievements to be materially different from any future results or performance expressed or implied in this presentation.
Speaker Change: You should not place undue reliance on these forward looking statements for.
For additional information, including a detailed discussion of the company's risk factors. Please refer to the company's documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which can be accessed on the website.
Speaker Change: In addition, this conference call contains time sensitive information that is accurate only as of the date of this live broadcast February 27 2025.
Speaker Change: <unk> undertakes no obligation to revise or update any forward looking statements to reflect events or circumstances. After the date of this live conference call.
Speaker Change: With that it's my pleasure to turn the call over to Nick Curtis Nick.
Yeah.
[music].
Speaker Change: Good morning, and thank you for your participation at this time all participants are in listen only mode.
Nick Curtis: Thank you Kim and good morning to everyone. Thank you for joining us on our fourth quarter and full year.
Speaker Change: 2012.
Speaker Change: We will conduct a question and answer session.
Speaker Change: <unk> performance in 2024 can be summarized in one word outstanding while there is no such thing as a year completely free of challenges our team executed exceptionally well and achieved significant milestones throughout 2024, culminating in a record fourth quarter positioning us for continued growth and market share gains in <unk>.
[music].
Speaker Change: As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the call over to camera and read out a bitch of Burns Mcclellan Mr read out of it. Please go ahead.
Good morning, and thank you for your participation at this time all participants are in listen only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session.
Speaker Change: Thank you operator, good morning, and welcome to the ones, our fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results Conference call.
Speaker Change: 25 and beyond.
Speaker Change: As always Tom will provide more granular detail on our financial performance, but I will first share with you several operational highlights we achieved significant revenue growth in 2020 for.
Speaker Change: Earlier this morning, the company issued a press release, providing an overview of its financial results for the quarter and full year ended December 31 2024.
As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
I would now like to turn the call over to Cameron Radanovich Burns Mcclellan Mr read out of it. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: This press release is available on the Investor Relations section of the company's website at Www Dot lens, our dot com.
Speaker Change: Our fourth quarter top line revenue increased to a record $16 7 million, which represents growth of 38% over Q4 2023.
Thank you operator, good morning, and welcome to the ones, our fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results Conference call earlier. This morning, the company issued a press release, providing an overview of its financial results for the quarter and full year ended December 31 2024.
Speaker Change: Joining me on the call today is Nick Curtis Chief Executive Officer of <unk>, who will review the company's recent business and operational progress.
Speaker Change: With full year revenue growth coming in at an impressive 27% over 2023 the.
Speaker Change: Following his comments, Tom Staab, Chief Financial Officer of ones are who will provide an overview of the company's financial highlights before turning the call back over to the operator to facilitate answering any questions you may have.
Speaker Change: The success was fueled by strong performance across all revenue lines, particularly in system placements and procedure volumes.
This press release is available on the Investor Relations section of the company's website at Www Dot <unk> Dot com.
Speaker Change: We placed a total of 31 alloy systems in the fourth quarter, a new quarterly high for <unk>.
Joining me on the call today is Nick Curtis Chief Executive Officer of lens, or who will review the company's recent business and operational progress.
Speaker Change: Today's conference call will contain forward looking statements, including those statements regarding future results unaudited and forward looking financial information.
Speaker Change: 20 of the 31 systems were installed in the U S, which is also with single quarter record for the company.
Following his comments, Tom Staab, Chief Financial Officer funds are will provide an overview of the companys financial highlights before turning the call back over to the operator to facilitate answering any questions you may have.
Speaker Change: As well as the company's future performance <unk> achievements.
Speaker Change: We anticipate these new systems reach their full procedure productivity in the second half of 2025 and look forward to the recurring revenue. These systems will contribute when they begin generating consistent procedure volume levels, which we expect to happen in mid Q2 for many of these systems.
Speaker Change: These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may cause the company's actual results performance or achievements to be materially different from any future results or performance expressed or implied in this presentation.
Today's conference call will contain forward looking statements, including those statements regarding future results unaudited and forward looking financial information as well as the Companys future performance <unk> achievements.
Speaker Change: Notably our expansion in laser placements into Europe in Southeast Asia continued from the third quarter launch with 24 systems total since launching ally outside the U S. After clearance in mid August 2024.
Speaker Change: You should not place undue reliance on these forward looking statements.
Speaker Change: For additional information, including a detailed discussion of the Companys risk factors. Please refer to the company's documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which can be accessed on the website.
These statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may cause the company's actual results performance or achievements to be materially different from any future results or performance expressed or implied in this presentation.
Speaker Change: We also continue to build a robust pipeline of executed contracts in the U S and consistent demand from our distributor serving customers outside the U S.
Speaker Change: In addition, this conference call contains time sensitive information that is accurate only as of the date of this live broadcast.
You should not place undue reliance on these forward looking statements for.
Speaker Change: We ended the year with a backlog of 16 alloy systems, which we expect to install and begin generating recurrent recurring revenue in 2025.
Speaker Change: During 2007 2025.
For additional information, including a detailed discussion of the company's risk factors. Please refer to the company's documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which can be accessed on the website.
Speaker Change: <unk> undertakes no obligation to revise or update any forward looking statements to reflect events or circumstances. After the date of this live conference call.
Speaker Change: Importantly, we have converted a highly significant number of new to lens, our customers adopting our technology for the first time, making the important decision to either upgrade from older competitive systems or enter the robotic laser cataract surgery market for the first time.
Speaker Change: With that it's my pleasure to turn the call over to Nick Curtis Nick.
In addition, this conference call contains time sensitive information that is accurate only as of the date of this live broadcast February 27th 2025.
Nick Curtis: Thank you Kim and good morning to everyone. Thank you for joining us on our fourth quarter and full year 'twenty.
Speaker Change: <unk> call.
<unk> undertakes no obligation to revise or update any forward looking statements to reflect events or circumstances. After the date of this live conference call.
Speaker Change: <unk> performance in 2024 can be summarized in one word outstanding.
Speaker Change: In fact, 75% of our new system placements in the U S. In 2024 were with customers new to lens or this.
Speaker Change: While there is no such thing as a year completely free of challenges our team executed exceptionally well and achieved significant milestones throughout 2024, culminating in a record fourth quarter positioning us for continued growth and market share gains in 2025 and beyond.
With that it's my pleasure to turn the call over to Nick Curtis Nick.
Speaker Change: This is a clear validation of allies technological advancements and the significant benefits it brings to surgeons and their patients.
Thank you Kim and good morning to everyone. Thank you for joining us on our fourth quarter and full year 'twenty.
Speaker Change: Further it is an acknowledgement of <unk> ongoing commitment to improving efficiencies outcomes and overall experience at every level of the practice.
<unk> call.
<unk> performance in 2024 can be summarized in one word outstanding.
Speaker Change: As always Tom will provide more granular detail on our financial performance, but I will first share with you several operational highlights we achieved significant revenue growth in 2020 for.
While there is no such thing as a year completely free of challenges our team executed exceptionally well and achieved significant milestones throughout 2024, culminating in a record fourth quarter positioning us for continued growth and market share gains in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker Change: This influx of new surgeon partners will further accelerate recurring revenue growth in the coming quarters as a fully integrate and adapt to ally, which is a great indicator of the underlying health of the important recurring revenue in our business and near term opportunity.
Tom Staab: Our fourth quarter top line revenue increased to a record $16 7 million, which represents growth of 38% over Q4 2023.
Speaker Change: Driven by our strong fourth quarter placement activity, we increased our ally placements, 86% over 2023.
As always Tom will provide more granular detail on our financial performance, but I will first share with you several operational highlights we achieved significant revenue growth in 2020 for.
Tom Staab: With full year revenue growth coming in at an impressive 27% over 2023.
Tom Staab: The success was fueled by strong performance across all revenue lines, particularly in system placements and procedure volumes.
Speaker Change: Our installed base of <unk> systems has now surpassed the 135 globally.
Our fourth quarter top line revenue increased to a record $16 7 million, which represents growth of 38% over Q4 2023.
Speaker Change: And our total installed base, including the legacy LLS systems has grown to 385 on a worldwide basis, representing an impressive 26% increase over December 31 2023.
Tom Staab: We placed a total of 31 ally systems in the fourth quarter, a new quarterly high for loans are.
Tom Staab: 20 of the 31 systems were installed in the U S, which is also with single quarter record for the company.
With full year revenue growth coming in at an impressive 27% over 2023.
Speaker Change: This impressive installed base growth, particularly in the U S allowed <unk> to continue gaining significant market share throughout 2024.
Speaker Change: The success was fueled by strong performance across all revenue lines, particularly in system placements and procedure volumes.
Tom Staab: We anticipate these new systems reach their full procedure productivity in the second half of 2025 and look forward to the recurring revenue the systems will contribute when they begin generating consistent procedure volume levels, which we expect to happen in mid Q2 for many of these systems.
Speaker Change: According to market scope <unk> added an additional seven 5% share in procedures in the U S. Since the launch of ally two years ago, bringing our total share to almost 21%.
We placed a total of 31 alloy systems in the fourth quarter, a new quarterly high for lens are.
Speaker Change: 20 of the 31 systems were installed in the U S, which is also a single quarter record for the company.
Tom Staab: Notably our expansion in laser placements into Europe in Southeast Asia continued from the third quarter launch with 24 systems total since launching ally outside the U S. After clearance in mid August 2024.
Speaker Change: This market share growth for us represents a combination of lengths are growing the overall market and our success in displacing competitive systems from our much larger ophthalmic peers.
Speaker Change: We anticipate these new systems reach their full procedure productivity in the second half of 2025 and look forward to the recurring revenue. These systems will contribute when they begin generating consistent procedure volume levels, which we expect to happen in mid Q2 for many of these systems.
Speaker Change: Procedure volumes increased 24% year over year in both the U S and worldwide. In addition, 80% of our 24 2024 systems were installed after June 1st meaning they haven't yet reached full practice integration and utilization and are therefore likely to contribute to recurring revenue with a greater level.
Tom Staab: We also continue to build a robust pipeline of executed contracts in the U S and consistent demand from our distributors serving customers outside the U S.
Speaker Change: Notably our expansion in laser placements into Europe in Southeast Asia continued from the third quarter.
Tom Staab: We ended the year with a backlog of 16 ally.
Speaker Change: Binding to the $40 million, we achieved in 2024.
Speaker Change: As utilization with these new newly installed systems ramps up we expect to see continued growth in the recurring procedure revenue, particularly from users who have switched to ally from the older competing lasers.
Speaker Change: We're focused on continuing to expand our footprint through strategic placements, which will further drive the significant procedure and revenue growth in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker Change: This continued growth in recurring revenues represents an important metric in assessing the underlying health of our business.
Speaker Change: As I mentioned previously procedure volumes directly correlate to our recurring revenue, which we believe is a highly effective and important measure of our growth and long term success.
Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter, our recurring revenue totaled approximately $10 8 million.
Significant benefits it brings to surgeons and their patients.
Speaker Change: And as I mentioned, a moment ago, we had over $40 million in recurring revenue for the year.
Further it's an acknowledgement of <unk> ongoing commitment to improving efficiencies outcomes and overall experience at every level of the practice.
Speaker Change: Looking ahead, we're confident in our ability to continue delivering strong financial results and achieving our ambitious growth objectives.
This influx of new surgeon partners will further accelerate recurring revenue growth in the coming quarters, as we fully integrate and adapt to ally, which is a great indicator of the underlying health of the important recurring revenue in our business and near term opportunity.
Speaker Change: One of the drivers of this growth is the increasing number of practices that are moving ally out of a dedicated procedure room and directly into the operating room and thus taking full advantage of allies ability to be a part of a fully sterile single room laser cataract surgical procedure.
Driven by our strong fourth quarter placement activity, we increased our ally placements, 86% over 2023.
Speaker Change: We've seen substantial growth in the number of sites that have added multiple alloy systems into multiple operating rooms, which is also expanding our overall procedure numbers because of the increased productivity and efficiencies.
Our installed base of ally systems has now surpassed 135 globally.
Speaker Change: More surgeries in a given timeframe.
Speaker Change: Within it drives an increase in procedure revenue and profitability or provides surgeons the ability to finish the day earlier and reduce overhead associated with performing fewer surgeries, while also cutting overhead due to inefficiencies in their current business models.
2023.
This impressive installed base growth, particularly in the U S allows <unk> to continue gaining significant market share throughout 2024.
According to market scope <unk> added an additional seven 5% share in procedures in the U S. Since the launch of ally two years ago, bringing our total share to almost 21%.
Speaker Change: This will drive additional growth.
Speaker Change: Multi trade systems sites.
Speaker Change: We attended several U S and O U S congresses, including the <unk> in the U S and the Es Crs in Barcelona.
This market share growth for us represents a combination of length are growing the overall market and our success in displacing competitive systems from our much larger ophthalmic peers.
Speaker Change: Where we not only perform many ally system demos and generated many new leads especially in the private equity groups and then office surgical suite markets.
Procedure volumes increased.
Speaker Change: We also had the opportunity to participate in the innovation meeting held in Barcelona preceding the Es Crs in a panel discussion on moving digital data into the MLR and the impact on the productivity and outcomes of this technology integrating the patient level data throughout the office.
2024 systems were installed after June 1st meaning.
Meaning they haven't yet reached full practice integration and utilization and are therefore likely to contribute to recurring revenue with a greater level.
Speaker Change: We also partnered with a European distributor for an advanced alloy user group meeting as well as our Asian partner with their Kols at the Taiwan National meeting.
<unk> to the $40 million, we achieved in 2024.
As utilization with these new newly installed systems ramps up we expect to see continued growth in the recurring procedure revenue, particularly from users who have switched to ally from the older competing lasers.
Speaker Change: I'm also pleased to report we have had a total of 11 abstracts accepted for presentation at the <unk> annual meeting in late April.
Speaker Change: I'll be providing additional details on the full slate of podium and poster presentations in the coming weeks I hope that we'll see some of you there.
We're focused on continuing to expand our footprint through strategic placements, which will further drive the significant procedure and revenue growth in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker Change: Before turning the call over to Tom I would like to take a moment to acknowledge and say thank you to the entire lens our team for delivering such strong performance in helping us reach that critical milestones throughout 2024.
With continued growth in recurring revenues represents an important metric in assessing the underlying health of our business.
As I mentioned previously procedure volumes directly correlate to our recurring revenue.
Speaker Change: We advanced our U S business significantly and alongside our distribution partners successfully launched ally in the EU in Southeast Asia, where surgeon feedback to date has been incredibly positive.
We believe the highly effective and important measure of our growth and long term success.
In the fourth quarter, our recurring revenue totaled approximately $10 8 million.
Speaker Change: This global expansion, coupled with our continued performance in the U S puts us in a strong position with a great deal of momentum as we head deeper into 2020.
And as I mentioned, a moment ago, we had over $40 million in recurring revenue for the year.
Looking ahead, we're confident in our ability to continue delivering strong financial results and achieving our ambitious growth objectives.
Speaker Change: We're excited about the opportunities that lie ahead.
Speaker Change: Now, let me turn the call over to Tom and he will cover our financial highlights for the quarter Tom.
One of the drivers of this growth is the increasing number of practices that are moving ally out of a dedicated procedure room and directly into the operating room and thus taking full advantage of allies ability to be a part of a fully sterile single room laser cataract surgical procedure.
Tom Staab: Thank you Nick.
Tom Staab: As Nick mentioned, the fourth quarter was an outstanding quarter for us.
Tom Staab: We finished the year with revenue of $16 7 million in the fourth quarter, representing a remarkable 38% increase over the $12 1 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Seen substantial growth in the number of sites that have added multiple alloy systems into multiple operating rooms, which is also expanding our overall procedure numbers because of the increased productivity and efficiencies.
Tom Staab: This growth was primarily driven by the 31 ally placements in the quarter and strong system sales, both domestically and internationally.
More surgeries in a given timeframe.
Tom Staab: Fourth quarter placements increased over 100% year over year globally, and 33% in the United States.
Within it drives increase in procedure revenue and profitability or provide surgeons the ability to finish the day earlier and reduce overhead associated with performing fewer surgeries, while also cutting overhead due to inefficiencies in their current business models.
Tom Staab: We also had strong procedure growth with overall procedures growing 22% on a worldwide basis and 24% in the United States when compared to the fourth quarter of 2023.
This will drive additional growth.
Modern trade system sites.
Tom Staab: For the quarter ended December 31, 2020 for approximately 64% of our revenue was recurring compared to 73% in the same period of 2023.
We attended several U S and O U S congresses, including the <unk> in the U S and the Es Crs in Barcelona, where.
Where we not only perform many ally system demos and generated many new leads especially in the private equity groups and an office surgical suite market.
Tom Staab: This shift reflects the increased contribution of ally system sales in total revenue, which rose to $5 9 million.
We also had the opportunity to participate in the innovation meeting held in Barcelona preceding the Es Crs in a panel discussion on moving digital data into the MLR and the impact on the productivity and outcomes of this technology integrating the patient level data throughout the office.
Tom Staab: From $3 $3 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: Additionally, as Nick said over 80% of our systems placed in 2024 were installed after June one.
Meaning these systems have not yet received.
Tom Staab: Not yet achieved full procedure productivity and thus we're not contributing to recurring revenue at their full capacity.
We also partnered with our European distributor for an advanced alloy user group meeting as well as our Asian partner with their Kols at the Taiwan National meeting.
Tom Staab: Gross margin for the quarter was $7 $1 million and.
I'm also pleased to report we have had a total of 11 abstracts accepted for presentation at the Crs annual meeting in late April.
Tom Staab: Resenting, a gross margin of 42%, which was very similar to the 43% realized in the fourth quarter of 2023.
We will be providing additional details on the full slate of podium and poster presentations in the coming weeks.
Tom Staab: Our gross margin for the year was 48%.
Hope that we'll see some of you there.
Before turning the call over to Tom I would like to take a moment to acknowledge and say thank you to the entire lens our team for delivering such strong performance in helping us reach such critical milestones throughout 2024.
Tom Staab: We expect our gross margin percentage to increase in the future as our sales mix shifts to a greater proportion of procedure based revenues, which carry higher margin and system sales we.
Tom Staab: We generally expect our gross margin to approximate 50% in 2025 with the gross margin percentage are highest in the first quarter and lowest in the fourth quarter based on the seasonality of our business.
We advanced our U S business significantly and alongside our distribution partners successfully launched ally in the EU in Southeast Asia, where surgeon feedback to date has been incredibly positive.
Speaker Change: This global expansion, coupled with our continued performance in the U S puts us in a strong position with a great deal of momentum as we get deeper into 2012.
Tom Staab: Total operating expenses for the fourth quarter of 2024 were $8 4 million.
Tom Staab: Compared to $8 1 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Speaker Change: We're excited about the opportunities that lie ahead.
Tom Staab: We continue to invest in our commercial operations to support our growth initiatives and our growing installed base. The increase in sales and marketing expenses was somewhat offset by decreases in other expense areas.
Tom: Now, let me turn the call over to Tom and he'll call.
Speaker Change: Our financial highlights for the quarter.
Speaker Change: Tom.
Nick: Thank you Nick as.
Nick: As Nick mentioned, the fourth quarter was an outstanding quarter for us.
Nick: We finished the year with revenue of $16 7 million in the fourth quarter, representing a remarkable 38% increase over the $12 1 million for the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: GAAP net loss was $18 $7 million world.
Tom Staab: 61 loss per share in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to a $3 $9 million loss or <unk> 35 loss per share in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Speaker Change: This growth was primarily driven by the 31 allied placements in the quarter and strong system sales, both domestically and internationally.
Tom Staab: Our net loss for the fourth quarter of 2024 was largely attributed to a $17 $6 million noncash.
Speaker Change: Fourth quarter placements increased over 100% year over year globally, and 33% in the United States.
Tom Staab: Noncash charge.
Tom Staab: Related to the increase in the fair value of our outstanding warrant liabilities.
Speaker Change: We also had strong procedure growth with over 20.
Tom Staab: This change in value is directly associated with a 155% increase in our stock price over 2024.
Speaker Change: 22% on a worldwide basis.
Speaker Change: And 24% in the United States.
Speaker Change: Third to the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: As you look at our adjusted EBITDA results, we closed the fourth quarter of 2024 with a positive $478000 as compared to a negative adjusted EBITDA of $1 2 million in.
Speaker Change: For the quarter ended December 31, 2020, or approximately 64% of our revenue was recurring compared to 73% in the same period of 2023.
Speaker Change: This shift reflects the increased contribution of ally system sales in total revenue, which rose to five 9 million from $3 $3 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: In the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: The fourth quarter represented the second consecutive quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA results for us.
Tom Staab: For context stock based compensation expenses were relatively consistent year over year at $700000 and $800000 for the fourth quarters of 2024 and 2023, respectively.
Speaker Change: Additionally, as Mick said over 80% of our systems placed in 2024 were installed after giving birth.
Speaker Change: Meaning the systems have not yet received has not yet Steve.
Tom Staab: As of December 31, 2024, we had cash and investments of 22 point.
Speaker Change: Procedure productivity.
Speaker Change: Thus were not contributing to recurring revenue at their full capacity.
Tom Staab: $22 5 million as compared to $24 6 million on December 31, 2023.
Speaker Change: Gross margin for the quarter was $7 1 million and represented a gross margin of 42%, which was very similar to the 43% realized in the fourth quarter of 2003.
Tom Staab: Importantly, our cash balance increased by $3 $9 million during the fourth quarter and $7 million for the last half of the year.
Nick Curtis: Our gross margin for the year was 48%.
Tom Staab: Our 2024 performance allowed us to minimize our cash used in the year to $2 $1 million.
Speaker Change: We expect our gross margin percentage to increase in the future as our sales mix shifts to a greater proportion procedure base revenues, which carry higher margin and system sales.
Tom Staab: Now turning to financial guidance.
Tom Staab: Based upon the strong demand for ally in the mid 2020 for regulatory clearances in the EU and South East Asia.
We generally expect our gross margin to approximate 50% in 2025 with the gross margin percentage highest in the first quarter and the lowest in the fourth quarter based on the seasonality of our business.
Tom Staab: We anticipate top line 2025 revenue growth to be above that 27% growth achieved in 2024.
Furthermore, the pattern of revenue throughout 2025 is expected to be impacted by seasonality similar to prior years with our first quarter being the lowest of the year and the fourth quarter being the highest.
Speaker Change: Total operating expenses for the fourth quarter of 2024 were $8 4 million compared to $8 1 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: We continue to invest in our commercial operations to support our growth initiatives and our growing installed base.
Tom Staab: In regard to further quarter granularity, we expect our first quarter 2025 revenue growth to align with our full year 2024 growth rate of 27% with additional growth anticipated in the subsequent three quarters of 2025.
Tom Staab: The increase in sales and marketing expenses were somewhat offset by decreases in other expense areas.
Tom Staab: GAAP net loss.
Tom Staab: $7 million.
Tom Staab: <unk> 61 loss per share in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to a $3 $9 million loss or <unk> 35 loss per share in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: In addition, based upon our disciplined approach to capital allocation and the expected revenue growth from Allied placements, we expect to achieve positive adjusted EBITDA results for the full year of 2025 with this measure increasing as the year progresses.
Tom Staab: Our net loss for the fourth quarter of 2004 was largely attributed to a $17 6 million dollar non.
Tom Staab: Noncash charge.
Tom Staab: Finally to support our expected growth, we will continue to make strategic investments in our commercial organization, including our service and customer applications infrastructure to ensure we continue to serve our expanding customer base with the highest system uptime and the best customer service in the industry.
Tom Staab: Related to the increase in the fair value of our outstanding warrant liabilities.
Tom Staab: This change in value is directly associated with a 155% increase in our stock price over 2024.
Tom Staab: As you look at our adjusted EBITDA results, we closed the fourth quarter of 2024 with a positive $478000 as compared to a negative adjusted EBITDA of $1 2 million in.
Mark: Now I would like to turn the call over to Mark to open up the lines for your questions.
Mark: Thank you at this time, we will conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder, asked a question you will need to press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced to withdraw. Your question. Please press star one again hang on for our first question.
Tom Staab: In the fourth quarter of 2023.
Tom Staab: The fourth quarter represented the second consecutive quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA results for us.
Tom Staab: For context stock based compensation expenses were relatively consistent year over year at $700000 and $800000 for the fourth quarters of 2024 and 2023, respectively.
Frank: Our first question will come from Frank with Lake Street Capital Markets go ahead Frank.
Speaker Change: Alright, thanks for taking the questions and congrats on a really strong finish to the year and really strong total year.
Tom Staab: As of December 31, 2024, we had cash and investments of 22 point 20.
Speaker Change: Hoping to start with a little bit around kind of mix of placements in the fourth quarter I heard you call out 20 of those occurred in the U S. But could you maybe talk a little bit more to a femto.
Tom Staab: $22 5 million as compared to $24 6 million.
Tom Staab: On December 31 2023.
Speaker Change: Femto naive competitive change outs versus replacing LLS.
Tom Staab: Importantly, our cash balances increased by $3 $9 million during the fourth quarter and $7 million for the last half of the year.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: The question I appreciate it.
Tom Staab: Our 2024 performance allowed us to minimize our cash used in the year to $2 1 million.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: As we mentioned 75% of these placements were.
Tom Staab: Now turning to financial guidance.
Tom Staab: Based upon the strong demand for ally in the mid 2020 for regulatory clearances in the EU and South East Asia.
Speaker Change: New to lend to our customers to try to break it down a little we actually.
Speaker Change: As you can see.
Tom Staab: We anticipate top line 2025 revenue growth to be above the 27% growth in 2024.
Speaker Change: The number of systems, we displaced.
Speaker Change: Only a few LLS is in fact well.
Speaker Change: Well below what we what we thought we were going to be and in fact, most of these practices that have LLS actually moved the LLS to another location so as far as the deep <unk>.
Tom Staab: Furthermore, the pattern of revenue throughout 2025 is expected to be impacted by seasonality similar to prior years with our first quarter being the lowest of the year in the fourth quarter being the highest.
Speaker Change: Corporation, placing an LLS that just went into no service at all we're only talking about.
Tom Staab: In regard to further quarter granularity, we expect our first quarter 2025 revenue growth to align with our full year 2024 growth rate of 27%.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Let's say a handful of machines over the course of the year.
Speaker Change: In terms of competitive with the competitive rates were above 30% of the systems were replacement of competitive devices.
Tom Staab: With additional growth anticipated in the subsequent three quarters of 2025.
Tom Staab: In addition, based upon our disciplined approach to capital allocation and the expected revenue growth from Allied placements.
Speaker Change: And then there was about 21% and I'm, giving you sort of.
Tom Staab: We expect to achieve positive adjusted EBITDA results for the full year of 2025 with this measure increasing as the year progresses.
Speaker Change: More for the year than the specific quarter, 21% of the of the systems just under 22% actually were Femto naive.
Speaker Change: We're both growing the.
Tom Staab: Finally to support our expected growth, we will continue to make strategic investments in our commercial organization, including our service and customer applications infrastructure to ensure we continue to serve our expanding customer base with the highest system uptime and the best customer service in the industry.
Speaker Change: The market with Femto naive.
Speaker Change: Surgeons in sites that are coming on and at the same time pretty robust replacement of competitive devices.
Speaker Change: So in answer to your question yes.
Speaker Change: No that was perfect and maybe just a follow up kind of on that a little bit more I think you've talked about in the past kind of order of operations first take market share second replace old LLS systems, and then third start to go after that FEMSA naive market as you've scaled throughout the year and really proven out.
Tom Staab: Now I'd like to turn the call over to Mark to open up the line for your questions.
Tom Staab: Thank you at this time, we will conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder, asked a question you will need to press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced to withdraw. Your question. Please press star one again <unk> our first question.
Speaker Change: The benefits of the technology, maybe give an update on kind of that strategy itself and where we lie within that yes.
Speaker Change: So the strategy I'm pleased to say.
Speaker Change: For now the strategy is working very well.
Speaker Change: Our first question will come from Frank with Lake Street Capital Markets go ahead Frank.
Speaker Change: The company is best served.
Speaker Change: In in the surgeon is best served actually.
Frank: Alright, thanks for taking the questions and congrats on a really strong finish to the year and really strong total year.
Speaker Change: Where we go out given the small sales force that we've got.
Frank: Was hoping to start with a little bit around kind of mix of placements in the fourth quarter I heard you call out 20 of those occurred in the U S. So maybe talk a little bit more to femto.
Speaker Change: Relatively to the much larger companies spur.
Spending our time with private equity groups.
Speaker Change: And in the larger individual practices that are have already accepted laser cataract surgery that are looking to continue providing higher efficiencies and better outcomes in and convert more patients that strategy is good we don't have to missionary.
Speaker Change: Femto naive competitive change outs versus replacing LLS.
Frank: So.
Frank: Hey.
Frank: The question I appreciate it.
Frank: So.
Frank: As we mentioned 75% of these placements were.
Speaker Change: Convinced someone that they should be doing laser cataract surgery and those sites can become more productive faster.
Frank: New to lend to our customers.
Frank: To try to break it down a little we actually.
Speaker Change: What we are seeing which I'm actually pleased.
Frank: As you can see.
Frank: The number of systems, we displaced one.
Speaker Change: Porto naive customers, we when we designed ally we designed it in mind.
Frank: A few LLS is in fact.
Frank: Well below what we what we thought we were going to be and in fact, most of these practices that have LLS actually have moved the LLS to another location so as far as the deep.
Speaker Change: Really pleased.
Speaker Change: Practices that have already accepted laser cataract surgery and are looking again to increase those efficiencies improve the outcomes.
Frank: Corporation, placing an LLS is just winter no service at all we're only talking about.
Speaker Change: We'll recognize that with ally, we really felt like we were also addressing the shortcomings that existed in first generation technology and <unk> always believed that as a third segment there.
Frank: No.
Frank: Okay.
Frank: Let's say a handful of machines over the course of the year.
Frank: In terms of competitive with the competitive rates were above 30% of the systems were were replacement of competitive devices.
Speaker Change: Again with a smaller group, we didn't want to necessarily go out day, one we wanted to establish a solid base of new to lens, our users and replace competitive devices. So that in essence.
Frank: And then there was about 21% and I'm, giving you sort of.
Frank: More for the year, then specific quarter, 21% of the of the systems just under 22% actually were offensive nature.
Speaker Change: Through their peer to peer.
Speaker Change: In presentations that we would do in abstracts. It would then begin to demonstrate.
Frank: We're both growing the.
Speaker Change: To those surgeons in sites that heretofore, either abandon laser cataract surgery or we're not doing it we believe that the system addresses those and so I'm actually pleased to say that with 21, 8% to 22% of of customers being femto naive.
Frank: The market with Femto naive.
Frank: Surgeon and sites that are coming on and at the same time pretty robust jug replacement of competitive devices.
Frank: Did I answer your question yes.
Speaker Change: Yeah that was perfect and maybe just as a follow up kind of on that a little bit more I think you've talked about in the past.
Speaker Change: There are more or less coming to us at the meetings and the demonstrations and whatnot versus us directly soliciting those at this time, so I'm very pleased with that and we're going to continue on the path that we are.
Frank: Order of operations first.
Frank: Market share second replace old LLS systems, and then third start to go after that FEMSA naive market as you've scaled throughout the year and really proving out the benefits of the technology, maybe give an update on kind of that strategy itself and where we lie within that.
Speaker Change: Strategy Wise I think it's served us well.
Speaker Change: Sorry for the long answer.
Speaker Change: Frank that's a great thing that I would add going forward, we're going to continue to target.
Frank: So the strategy.
Frank: Pleased to say for now the strategy is working very well I think that the company is best served.
Speaker Change: 70% to 85% new customers, but the way we classify that is that they were not a customer in the fiscal year that we're talking about so obviously when Nick mentioned in his script that we had systems that were installed and they were adding additional ally units in their operating room or through their practice.
Frank: In the surgeon is best served actually.
Frank: Where we go out given the small sales force that we've got.
Frank: Similar to those of much larger companies.
Frank: Spending our time with private equity groups and in.
Speaker Change: They were an existing customer of January 1st in the year. They would if they had an existing ally they would be considered an old customer not a new customer so.
Frank: And the larger individual practices that are they've already accepted laser cataract surgery.
Frank: That are looking to continue providing higher efficiencies and better outcomes.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: We're still targeting heavily competitive accounts because that contributes to a recurring revenue the strongest.
Speaker Change: Bert more patients that strategy is good.
Speaker Change: Missionary convince someone that they should be doing laser cataract surgery and those sites can become more productive faster.
Speaker Change: However, it's important to note, how we classify existing versus new customers.
Speaker Change: Okay. That's helpful. And then just last one for me, obviously youre, taking a lot of market share.
Speaker Change: What we are seeing which I'm actually pleased.
Speaker Change: The competitive market there are some other large players in the market any changes you are seeing from how they're operating any investments theyre, making into their technology or any real change on the competitive front.
Speaker Change: The same until naive customers.
Speaker Change: When we designed ally we designed it in mind.
Speaker Change: Really pleased of the practices that have already accepted laser cataract surgery and are looking again to increase those efficiencies improve the outcomes.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: It's always there.
Speaker Change: It's always a challenge for a smaller.
Speaker Change: No single product company like ours.
Speaker Change: We'll recognize that with ally, we really felt like we were also addressing the shortcomings.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: I would just say that there is.
Speaker Change: Strong competition.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: That existed in first generation technology and.
Speaker Change: But we don't see that that were threatened from a technology perspective.
Speaker Change: <unk> always believed that there is a third segment there.
Speaker Change: At all.
Speaker Change: And don't see anything immediate on the horizon there to threaten that.
Speaker Change: Again with the smaller group, we didn't want to necessarily go out day, one we wanted to establish a solid base of new to lens, our users and replace competitive devices.
Speaker Change: The much larger competitors have the other products and.
Speaker Change: It's a strong lead.
Speaker Change: Let's say a tug of war between.
Speaker Change: And FX.
Speaker Change: Two there.
Speaker Change: Bundling in price versus increasing productivity and improving outcomes in.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: FX.
Speaker Change: Thank you Dan.
Speaker Change: Being able to do.
Speaker Change: Thanks.
Speaker Change: Paid in less time.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: That heretofore either abandon laser cataract surgery or we're not doing it we believe that the system addresses those and so I'm actually pleased to say that.
Speaker Change: So that's sort of the decision process that the practices have to go to and really again, not so much if but when they decide to.
Speaker Change: 182% of of customers being Femto naive.
Speaker Change: Move outs.
Speaker Change: That bundle and move towards towards our laser technology wise.
Speaker Change: They are they are more or less coming to us at the meetings and the demonstrations and whatnot versus us directly soliciting those at this time, so I'm very pleased with that and we're going to continue on the path that we are.
Speaker Change: Okay. That's helpful. Thanks for taking the questions and congrats again.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you please standby for our next question.
Speaker Change: Strategy Wise I think it's served us well.
Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Ryan Zimmerman with <unk> go ahead Ryan.
Speaker Change: Sorry for the long answer.
Speaker Change: Frank that's a great thing that I would add going forward, we're going to continue to target.
Ryan Zimmerman: Hi, everyone. This is easy answer Ryan. Thank you for taking my questions I apologize for any background noise.
Speaker Change: 70% to 85% new customers, but the way we classify that is that they were not a customer in the fiscal year that we're talking about.
Speaker Change: I just wanted to echo the congratulations on the progress that you guys made any quicker.
Ryan Zimmerman: In 2024 hours of Hall.
Speaker Change: So obviously when Nick mentioned in his script that we had systems that were installed and they were adding additional ally units were operating room or through their practice if they.
Speaker Change: So just to start I. Appreciate that you are now providing some guidance for 2025, but I have a couple of questions there.
Ryan Zimmerman: We're first.
Ryan Zimmerman: You think about the composition of sales for next year in the context of growing recurring revenue base. How are you thinking about.
Speaker Change: They were an existing customer of January 1st of the year. They would if they had an existing ally they would be considered an old customer not a new customer so.
Ryan Zimmerman: The split between the mix of sales and leases birth is Christy here all of our consumable revenue.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: The.
Speaker Change: We're still targeting heavily competitive accounts because that contribute to our recurring revenue the strongest.
Ryan Zimmerman: Okay.
Well I'm going to let Tom answer part of this but what im going to what I'm going to say is is that what.
Speaker Change: However, it's important to note, how we classify existing versus new customers.
Speaker Change: What I see is that particularly as we get into the larger groups.
Speaker Change: I see that there'll be more aggressive placements of systems and so the percentage of sold systems too.
Speaker Change: Okay. That's helpful. And then just last one for me, obviously youre, taking a lot of market share to.
Speaker Change: The competitive market. There is some other large players in the market any changes youre seeing from how they're operating and the investments, they're making into their technology or any real change on the competitive front.
Speaker Change: Still systems.
Speaker Change: Well, we'll we'll dropped slightly as the placement.
Speaker Change: Demand goes up higher and so we will place a higher percentage of systems.
Speaker Change: It's always there.
Speaker Change: Then then we will.
Speaker Change: It's always a challenge for smaller.
Speaker Change: Cell systems overall.
Speaker Change: No single product company like ours.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: And so that mix will change slightly where we were more weighted on the sales side and less on the placement and as we get more and more.
Speaker Change: I would just say that there is.
Speaker Change: Strong competition.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: We don't see that that was threatened from a technology perspective.
Speaker Change: Sites and as we continue to grow share that.
Speaker Change: At all.
Speaker Change: And don't see anything immediate on the horizon there to threaten that.
Speaker Change: That starts to shift a bit Tom I don't know if you want to put any other color on that or.
Much larger competitors have the other products <unk> and <unk>.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah. Thanks for the question as he so like we said before with the <unk>.
Speaker Change: It's a strong lead.
Speaker Change: Let's say a tug of war between.
Speaker Change: <unk> and Taiwan clearances, and the fact that we're at.
Speaker Change: Bundling in price versus increasing productivity and improving outcomes in.
Speaker Change: Distributor.
Speaker Change: Sales model outside the United States with those additional sales coming in we'll be more aggressive in the United States on our placements, but we will still keep.
Speaker Change: Being able to do.
Speaker Change: We're paid in less time.
Speaker Change: So that's sort of the decision process that the practices you have to go to and really again, not so much if but when they decide to.
Speaker Change: Sales slash lease mix on an aggregate basis about the same and it was about 60%.
Speaker Change: For the year.
Speaker Change: Move outs.
Speaker Change: So between 50 and 60%.
Speaker Change: The debt bundle and move towards.
Speaker Change: Placements in the aggregate is about what you should.
Speaker Change: Towards our laser technology wise.
Speaker Change: Okay. That's helpful. Thanks for taking the questions and congrats again.
Speaker Change: What you should target.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay. That's helpful. Thank you and as we think about that.
Speaker Change: Thank you please standby for our next question.
Speaker Change: So do you have any expectations on when we might start to see an inflection there given the timing of the product approvals.
Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Ryan Zimmerman with <unk> go ahead Ryan.
Speaker Change: Hi, everyone. This is.
Well, we're looking to get some some approvals in additional countries.
Speaker Change: Is he answer Ryan. Thank you for taking the questions I apologize for any background noise I just wanted to echo the congratulations on the progress.
From an inflection perspective, because overall outside U S utilization.
Speaker Change: And quite quite high.
Speaker Change: In 2024 hours or less.
Speaker Change: Utilization of these systems because of the let's say the.
Speaker Change: I guess just start I. Appreciate that you are now providing guidance for 2025, that's a couple of questions there.
Speaker Change: The premium market segments are smaller in most of the countries and slow as.
Speaker Change: What first.
Speaker Change: When you think about the composition of that looks for next year in the context of growing recurring revenue base. How are you thinking about.
Speaker Change: It was a significant amount of demand in the beginning here and just like in the U S, where we've started to ramp up slow and then from there.
The split between.
Speaker Change: Sales and leases birth is eager all our consumable revenue.
Speaker Change: Again to grow into into more new new to lend to our customers I think youre going to see.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Well I'm going to let Tom answer part of this but what I am going to what I'm going to say is is that what.
Speaker Change: What we've seen.
Speaker Change: I don't think youre going to see the same rate outside U S quarter to quarter as we did in the last given the demand that was there but this will begin to grow over the course of the year as we move from let's say existing lens our kols outside.
Speaker Change: What I see is that particularly as we get into the larger groups.
Speaker Change: I see that there'll be more aggressive placements of systems and so the percentage of full systems too.
Speaker Change: So systems.
Speaker Change: AUM to lens, our customers and so there is a substantive number of systems out start outside of the U S 300 systems or so in the.
Speaker Change: Well, we'll we'll dropped slightly as the placement.
Speaker Change: Demand goes up higher and so we will place a higher percentage of systems.
The EU lengths or has a big presence.
Speaker Change: Then then we will.
Speaker Change: In Germany, we're starting to see some expansion.
Speaker Change: Cell systems overall.
Speaker Change: There and whatnot.
Speaker Change: And so that mix will change slightly where we were more weighted on the sales side and <unk>.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: I would say, it's going to be one of those steady sort of vote.
Speaker Change: Growth into 2025 and <unk>.
Speaker Change: Wes on the placement and as we get more and more.
Speaker Change: Sites and as we continue to grow share that.
Speaker Change: I would see much larger growth coming in 2026.
Tom Staab: That starts to shift a bit Tom I don't know if you want to put any other color on that or.
Speaker Change: And just curious as you guys continue to expand into further there are additional U S markets do you have any thoughts around if you would like to establish a direct presence or continue with that distributor model.
Tom Staab: Yes. Thanks for the question so like we said before with the <unk>.
Tom Staab: <unk> and Taiwan clearances, and the fact that where.
Speaker Change: So that's a really great question.
Tom Staab: Distributor.
Tom Staab: Sales model outside the United States with those additional sales coming in we'll be more aggressive in the United States on our placements, but we will still keep.
Speaker Change: I think that it should always be a topic of discussion to think about.
Speaker Change: If and when you might look at certain markets from a direct perspective, I'd say that certainly in the EU and in Asia, We're very comfortable with our distributor relationships there and their commitment to the product I would say, it's certainly a topic of discussion and other areas.
Tom Staab: Sales slash lease mix on an aggregate basis about the same and it was about 60%.
Tom Staab: For the year.
Tom Staab: So between 50 and 60%.
Tom Staab: Placements in the aggregate is about what.
Speaker Change: As to.
Speaker Change: As to if and when we might go direct and so yes, I think as we continue to grow we'll we'll see that in some of these other markets when we assess the opportunity we may.
Tom Staab: What you should target.
Tom Staab: Okay. That's helpful. Thank you and as I think about that.
Speaker Change: Are you at now do you have any expectations on when we might see.
Speaker Change: Consider a direct presence.
Tom Staab: The inflection there and then the timing of the product itself.
Speaker Change: And is it.
Speaker Change: I just wanted to correct my previous statement I think I said, we expected 60% placements, it's actually 60% of sales.
Tom Staab: Well, we're looking to get some some approvals in additional countries.
Tom Staab: From an inflection perspective, because overall outside U S Utah.
Speaker Change: If I said placements I meant sales so I just want to correct that.
Tom Staab: Utilization of these systems because of the let's say the.
Speaker Change: Thank you and then.
Speaker Change: Tom last one from me just we noticed that there was a bit of a fluctuation or there has been some fluctuations in SG&A from quarter to quarter. So I was curious if the 7 million that we saw for fourth quarter is the right baseline for 2025 or do you expect this to ramp.
Tom Staab: Premium market segments are smaller in most of the countries and slow.
Tom Staab: There was a significant amount of demand in the beginning here and just like in the U S, where we started to ramp up slow and then from there.
Speaker Change: Ramp up as you continue to invest in growing the business.
Tom Staab: Begin to grow into into more new new.
Speaker Change: Yes, so it's a little bit of a misnomer like we've said before on cash basis commercial expenses, they were increasing at 16%, but we actually decreased our.
Tom Staab: Lend to our customers I think youre going to see.
Tom Staab: What would change.
Tom Staab: I don't think youre going to see the same rate outside U S quarter to quarter as we did in the last given the demand that was there but this will begin to grow over the course of the year as we move from let's say existing length, our kols outside.
Speaker Change: Our our administrative expenses.
Speaker Change: So I think that we're going to continue to invest in our commercial infrastructure and we're going to do that gradually.
Speaker Change: And as you know.
Tom Staab: AUM to lens, our customers and so there is a substantive number of systems out start outside of the U S 300 systems or so in the.
Speaker Change: Probably a little more aggressively than what we've had in the past, but not much. So I don't think that we'll be able to squeeze as many administrative expenses or any additional administrative expenses out of the business and so youll see the SG&A line tick up just because there isn't an offset that we've seen before.
Tom Staab: In the EU length or has a big presence in.
Tom Staab: In Germany, we're starting to see some expansion.
Tom Staab: There and whatnot.
Tom Staab: So.
Speaker Change: Alright, that's it. Thank you guys for taking the questions and congratulations again on our progress in 2024.
Tom Staab: I would say, it's just going to be one of those steady sort of.
Tom Staab: Growth into 2025 and.
Speaker Change: I appreciate it.
Tom Staab: Actually I would see much larger growth coming in 2026.
Speaker Change: Thank you. This now concludes our question and answer session I would like to turn it back over to Nick Curtis for closing remarks go ahead Nick.
Tom Staab: And just curious as you guys continue to expand into further alright, that's not all you ask Mike if you have any thoughts around you would like to establish a direct presence or and when you're at that distributor model.
Speaker Change: Thank you everyone for your participation in today's call. We certainly appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Pleased to have shared a strong 2024 results with you we're really excited about the opportunities that lie ahead.
Speaker Change: So that's a really great question I think that it should always be a topic of discussion, but just think about it.
Speaker Change: <unk> is committed to revolutionizing the field of laser cataract surgery through innovative technology and of course, our real dedication to excellence. We believe that <unk> has the potential to really transform the surgical experience for both the surgeons and patients and thus.
Speaker Change: If and when you might look at certain markets from a direct perspective, I'd say that certainly in the EU and in Asia, We're very comfortable with our distributor relationships there and their commitment to the product I would say, it's certainly a topic of discussion in other areas.
Speaker Change: What's the name ally and we're committed to making that vision a reality and we certainly look forward to continuing this journey with you and we will continue to provide further updates on our progress thanks for joining.
Speaker Change: As to if and when we might go direct and so yes, I think as we continue to grow we'll we'll see that in some of these other markets when we assess the opportunity we may.
Speaker Change: Thanks, everybody for your participation today. This does now conclude the program you may disconnect.
Speaker Change: Consider a direct presence.
Speaker Change: And is he.
Speaker Change: I just wanted to correct my previous statement I think Ive said, we expected 60% placements, it's actually 60% of sales.
Speaker Change: And if I, if I said placements I meant sales I just want to correct that.
Speaker Change: Thank you and then.
Speaker Change: Last one for me.
Speaker Change: We noticed that there was a bit of a fluctuation or there's been some fluctuations in SG&A from quarter to quarter. So I was curious if that.
Speaker Change: <unk> million that we stopped their fourth quarter is the right baseline for 2025, where it gets back to you.
Speaker Change: Ramp up as you continue to invest in growing our business.
Speaker Change: Yes, so it's a little bit of a misnomer like we've.
Speaker Change: And before on cash basis commercial expenses, there they were increasing at 16%, but we actually decreased.
Speaker Change: Our administrative expenses, so I think that we're going to continue to invest in the commercial infrastructure and we're going to do that gradually.
Speaker Change: As you.
Speaker Change: Probably a little more aggressively than what we had in the past, but not much. So I don't think that we'll be able to squeeze as many administrative expenses.
Speaker Change: Any additional administrative expenses out of the business and so you'll see the SG&A line pick up just because there is an offset.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: That's it. Thank you guys, taking my questions and congratulations again on that progress in 2025.
Speaker Change: Thanks, guys I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Thank you. This now concludes our question and answer session I would like to turn it back over to Nick Curtis for closing remarks go ahead Nick.
Nick Curtis: Thank you everyone for your participation in today's call. We certainly appreciate it.
Nick Curtis: Pleased to have shared a strong 2024 results with you we're really excited about the opportunities that lie ahead.
Speaker Change: <unk> committed to revolutionizing the field of laser cataract surgery through innovative technology and of course, our real dedication to excellence. We believe that <unk> has the potential to really transform the surgical experience for both the surgeons and patients.
Speaker Change: Thus the name ally and we're committed to making that vision a reality and we certainly look forward to continuing this journey with you and we will continue to provide further updates on our progress thanks for joining.
Speaker Change: Thanks, everybody for your participation today. This does now conclude the program you may disconnect.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: [music].
Speaker Change: Okay.
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Speaker Change: Okay.
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