Q4 2024 loanDepot Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon and welcome to Loan Depot's year-end and fourth quarter 2024 earnings. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during that time, simply press the star key followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star 1 a second time.
Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and welcome to loan depots yearend and fourth quarter 2024 earnings call.
All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.
After the Speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session.
He would like to ask a question during that time simply press the star key followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
I would like to withdraw your question Press Star one a second time.
Gerhard Erdelji: I would now like to turn the call over to Gerhard Erdelji, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the call over to Gary Hart or Daily Senior Vice President Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Gerhard Erdelji: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our year-end and fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that this conference call may include forward-looking statements regarding the company's operating and financial performance in future periods. All statements, other than statements of historical fact, are statements that could be deemed forward-looking statements, including but not limited to guidance to our pull-through-weighted rate lock volume, origination volume, pull-through-weighted gain on sale margin, and expense trend. These statements are based on the company's current expectations and available information.
Gary Hart: Good afternoon, everyone and thank you for joining our year end and fourth quarter 2024 earnings call.
Before we begin I would like to remind everyone that this conference call may include forward looking statements regarding the Companys operating and financial performance in future periods.
Gary Hart: All statements other than statements of historical fact are statements that could be deemed forward looking statements, including but not limited to guidance to our pull through weighted rate lock volume origination volume pull through weight gain on sale margin and expense trends.
Gary Hart: These statements are based on the company's current expectations and available information actual results for future periods may differ materially from these forward looking statements due to risks or other factors that are described in the risk factors section of our filings with the SEC.
Gerhard Erdelji: Actual results for future periods may differ materially from these forward-looking statements due to risks or other factors that are described in the risk factors section of our filings with the SEC.
Gerhard Erdelji: Our presentation today contains certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe provide additional insight into analyzing and benchmarking the performance and value of our business and facilitating company-to-company operating performance comparisons. For more details on these non-GAAP financial measures, including reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP measures, please refer to today's earnings release, which is available on our website at investors.loandepot.com.
Gary Hart: Our presentation today contains certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe provide additional insight into analyzing and benchmarking the performance and value of our business and facilitating company to company operating performance comparisons.
Gary Hart: For more details on these non-GAAP financial measures, including reconciliation to the most directly comparable GAAP measures. Please refer to today's earnings release, which is available on our website at investors Dot loan depot Dot com.
Gerhard Erdelji: A webcast and a transcript of this call will be posted on our website after the conclusion of this call.
Gary Hart: A webcast and a transcript of this call will be posted on our website. After the conclusion of this call.
Gerhard Erdelji: On today's call we have Loandepot President and Chief Executive Officer Frank Martell and Chief Financial Officer Dave Hayes to provide an overview of our quarter as well as our financial and operational results, outlook, and to answer your questions. We are also joined by Chief Investment Officer Jeff DerGurahian and LDI Mortgage President Jeff Walsh to help address any questions you might have after our prepared remarks.
Gary Hart: On today's call, we have a loan depot, President and Chief Executive Officer, Frank Martell, and Chief Financial Officer, Dave Hastings to provide an overview of our quarter as well as our financial and operational results outlook and to answer your questions.
Gary Hart: We're also joined by Chief Investment Officer, Jeff degree in an LTI mortgage President Jeff Walsh to help address any questions you might have after our prepared prepared remarks.
Frank Martell: And with that, I'll turn things over to Frank to get us started. Thank you, Gerhard. I appreciate everybody taking the time to join us on this call today. 2024 was a year of significant progress for Loandepot, particularly with the completion of our Vision 2025 strategic program. Vision 2025 was born from the fires of one of the most significant contractions in the housing and mortgage markets in recent memory. As you may recall, total market originations fell nearly 50% from 2021 to 2022, led by refinance volumes falling almost 75%. The mortgage market continued to remain depressed in 2023 and 2024, with volumes approaching generational lows.
And with that I'll turn things over to Frank to get Us started.
Gary Hart: Thank you for your hard I appreciate everybody, taking the time to join US on this call today.
Gary Hart: 2024 was the year significant progress for loan depot, particularly with the completion of our ambition 2025 strategic programs.
Gary Hart: Vision 2025 was born from the fires in one of the most significant contractions in the housing and mortgage markets in recent memory.
Gary Hart: As you May recall total market originations fell nearly 50% from 2021% to 2022 led by refinance volumes falling almost 75%.
Gary Hart: The mortgage market continued to remain depressed in 2023, and 2024 with volumes approaching generational lows.
Frank Martell: The Strategic Imperatives of Vision 2025 served as our roadmap for successfully navigating While a portion of Vision 2025 was focused on fundamentally resetting our cost structure and organization to better align with a much smaller market, the strategy also addressed important investments in people, process, product, and technology. I expect that these investments will enable Loandepot to emerge from the market downturn a more efficient and durable company.
Gary Hart: The strategic imperatives of vision 2025 serves as a road map for successfully navigating this historic downturn.
Gary Hart: Although a portion of vision 2025 was successful it was focused on fundamentally resetting our cost structure and organization to better align with a much smaller market strategy also address important investments in people process and product and technology.
Gary Hart: These investments will enable loan depot to emerge from the market downturn, a more efficient and durable company.
Frank Martell: The company's return to profitability during the third quarter marked a successful completion of Vision 2025.
Gary Hart: The company has returned to profitability during the third quarter marked the successful completion of vision 2025.
Frank Martell: With the announcement of a new three-year plan, Project North Star, it is the logical time for me to make way for a new leader.
Gary Hart: The announcement of a new three year plan project North Star. It is the logical time for me to make way for a new leader.
Frank Martell: We recently announced the details of the transition, which confirmed that I will step down as CEO and board member effective with our annual meeting of stockholders on June 4th. After the annual meeting, I will continue to support Loandepot as an advisor to the Belonging Committee. During my remaining time at Loandepot, I look forward to working tirelessly to support our founder and board chair, Anthony Shea, who has agreed to return to the company as executive chairman of Mortgage Originations, leading our origination, servicing, operations, and related activities.
Gary Hart: Recently announced the details of the transition, which confirm that I will step down as CEO and board member effective with our annual meeting of stockholders on June four.
Gary Hart: After the annual meeting I will continue to support loan depot as an adviser to the board.
Gary Hart: During my remaining time with long depot I look forward to working tirelessly to support our founder and Board Chair Anthony shedding.
Gary Hart: <unk> agreed to return to the company as executive Chairman of mortgage originations, leading our origination servicing operations and related activities.
Frank Martell: The successful completion of Vision 2025 was a critical step in the company's evolution. I'd like to express my deepest appreciation for Team Loandepot for all their hard work and effort over the past several years executing the plan. We have a truly exceptional team that approaches every single day with the goal of making the dream of home ownership a reality for our customers. As we look forward, we believe that we are positioned to accelerate revenue growth and continue our progress towards sustainable profitability as we pivot toward the next chapter in Loan Depot's story. The housing and mortgage markets remain challenged, no doubt, but they are substantial in size and hold many opportunities for Loandepot to grow and to realize its strategic objectives.
Gary Hart: The successful completion of vision 25 was a critical step in the company's evolution.
Gary Hart: I'd like to express my deepest appreciation for chemo depot for all their hard work and effort over the past several years executing the plan.
Gary Hart: We have a truly exceptional team at approaches every single day with the goal of making the dream of homeownership, a reality for our customers.
Gary Hart: As we look forward, we believe that we are positioned to accelerate revenue growth and continue our progress towards sustainable profitability as we pivot towards the next chapter in loan depot story.
Gary Hart: The housing and mortgage markets remained challenged no doubt.
Gary Hart: Our substantial in size and hold many opportunities for loan depot to grow and to realize its strategic objectives when.
Frank Martell: When the market inevitably recovers, I believe the company is well positioned to become the lender of choice for the American homeowner to buy, manage, and optimize their home ownership journey.
Gary Hart: When the market inevitably recovers I believe the company is well positioned to become the lender of choice for the American home owner to buy manage and optimize their homeownership journey.
Frank Martell: In closing, I want to thank every member of Team Loandepot, our critical business partners, and our board of directors for their support. Without which, we could not have achieved the substantial critical progress the company has made over the past three years.
Gary Hart: In closing I want to thank every member of team loan depot, a critical business partners and our board of directors for their support without which we could not have achieved the substantial critical progress the company's name over the past few years.
David Hayes: With that, I will now turn the call over to Dave who will take us through our financial results in more detail. Thanks, Frank, and good afternoon, everyone. In the interest of time, I'll focus my comments on the quarterly results. We reported an adjusted net loss of $47 million in the fourth quarter compared to an adjusted net loss of $27 million in the fourth quarter of 2023 due primarily to higher volume related expenses offset somewhat by higher adjusted revenue. As you might know, the accounting for loan origination is subject to timing, with much of the revenue recognized at the time of the interest rate lock, and much of the expense recognized at the time of the origination.
Dave Hastings: With that I will now turn the call over to Dave who will take us through our financial results in more detail.
Thanks, Frank and good afternoon, everyone in the interest of time I'll focus my comments on the quarterly results.
Dave Hastings: We reported an adjusted net loss of $47 million in the fourth quarter compared to an adjusted net loss of $27 million in the fourth quarter of 2023, due primarily to higher volume related expenses offset somewhat by higher adjusted revenues.
Dave Hastings: As you might know the accounting for loan origination is subject to timing with much of the revenue recognized at the time of the interest rate lock.
Dave Hastings: And much of the expense recognized at the time of the origination and.
David Hayes: A meaningful increase or decrease in volume from quarter to quarter, such as we saw from the third to fourth quarter, can have a noticeable impact on our financial results. During the fourth quarter, pull-through weighted rate lock volume was $5.6 billion, which represented a 27% increase from the prior year's volume of $4.4 billion and reflected the impact of our investment in recruiting and developing our loan office. Rate lock volume came in within guidance we issued last quarter of $5.5 billion to $7.5 billion and contributed to adjusted total revenue of $267 million compared to $251 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.
Dave Hastings: A meaningful increase or decrease in volume from quarter to quarter.
Dave Hastings: Such as we saw from the third to fourth quarter.
Dave Hastings: Noticeable impact on our financial results.
Dave Hastings: During the fourth quarter pull through weighted rate lock volume was $5 $6 billion, which represented a 27% increase from the prior year's volume of $4 $4 billion and reflected the impact of our investment in recruiting and developing our loan officers.
Dave Hastings: Rate lock volume came in within guidance, we issued last quarter, a $5 5 billion to $7 5 billion and contributed to adjusted total revenue of $267 million.
Dave Hastings: Compared to $251 million in the fourth quarter of 2023.
David Hayes: Our pull-through weighted gain on sale margin for the fourth quarter came in at 334 basis points, above our guidance of 285 to 305 basis points, and compared to 296 basis points in the prior year. Our higher gain on sale margin primarily benefited from wider overall margins across our product set and a channel mix shift away from JV toward our retail and direct channel. Our loan origination volume was $7.2 billion for the quarter, an increase of 34% from the prior year's volumes of $5.4 billion. The increase reflected the pickup in lock activity during the third quarter, stemming from a temporary decrease in market rates.
Dave Hastings: Our pull through weight gain on sale margin for the fourth quarter came in at 334 basis points above our guidance of 295 to 305 basis points and compared to 296 based on basis points in the prior year.
Dave Hastings: Our higher gain on sale margin, primarily benefited from wider overall margins across our product set and the channel mix shift away from JV toward our retail and direct channels.
Dave Hastings: Our loan origination volume was $7.2 billion for the quarter, an increase of 34% from the prior year's volumes of $5 4 billion.
Dave Hastings: The increase reflected the pickup in lock activity during the third quarter stemming from a temporary decrease in market rates.
David Hayes: This increased lock volume was concentrated in September and therefore resulted in closings during the fourth quarter. This was also within the guidance we issued last quarter of between $6 billion and $8 billion. Servicing fee income decreased from $132 million in the fourth quarter of 2023 to $108 million in the fourth quarter of 2024, and is in line with this increase in the size of the portfolio, resulting from the second quarter bulk sale. We hedge our servicing portfolio, so we do not record the full impact of the changes in fair value and the results of our operation.
Dave Hastings: This increased lock volume was concentrated in September and therefore resulted in closings during the fourth quarter.
Dave Hastings: This was also within the guidance, we issued last quarter of between $6 billion and $8 billion.
Dave Hastings: Servicing fee income decreased from $132 million in the fourth quarter of 2000 $23 million to $108 million in the fourth quarter of 2024 and is in line with the decrease in the size of the portfolio, resulting from the second quarter bulk sales.
We hedge our servicing portfolio. So we do not record the full impact of the changes in fair value and the results of our operations. We believe the strategy protects against volatility in our earnings and liquidity.
David Hayes: We believe the strategy protects against volatility in our earnings and liquidity. Our strategy for hedging the servicing portfolio is dynamic, and we adjust our hedge positions in reaction to changing interest rate environments. Our total expenses for the fourth quarter of 2024 increased by $39 million, or 13% from the prior year. The primary drivers of the increase were higher volume-related commission, direct origination, and marketing expenses. Looking ahead to the first quarter, we expect pull-through weighted lock volume of between $4.8 billion and $5.8 billion and origination volume of between $4.5 billion and $5.5 billion. Volume guidance reflects the seasonal decrease in purchase activity.
Dave Hastings: Our strategy for hedging the servicing portfolio is dynamic and we adjust our hedge positions in reaction to changing interest rate environment.
Dave Hastings: Our total its fastest said the fourth quarter of 2024 increased by $39 million or 13% from the prior year.
Dave Hastings: The primary drivers of the increase were higher volume related commission direct origination and marketing expenses.
Dave Hastings: Looking ahead to the first quarter, we expect culture weighted lock volume of between $4 8 billion and $5 8 billion.
Dave Hastings: And origination volume of between $4 5 billion and $5 $5 billion.
Volume guidance reflects the seasonal decrease in purchase activity, we expect our first quarter pull through winded gain on sale margin to be between 320 and 340 basis points.
David Hayes: We expect our first quarter pull through weighted gain on sale margin to be to be between 320 and 340 basis points. Our total expenses are expected to decline in the first quarter, primarily driven by lower volume related expenses and also lower G&A expenses. Our cost reset, focus on creating positive operating leverage, and balance sheet management activities have significantly reduced our risk profile and charted a path towards profitability while allowing us to maintain a strong liquidity position. We ended the quarter with $422 million in cash. We grew revenue, expanded margins, reduced our corporate debt, and made important investments in productivity initiatives that benefited both the quarter and the year.
Dave Hastings: Our total expenses are expected to decline in the first quarter, primarily driven by lower volume related expenses and also lower G&A expenses.
Dave Hastings: Our cost reset focus on creating positive operating leverage and balance sheet management activities has significantly reduced our risk profile and charted a path towards profitability, while allowing us to maintain a strong liquidity position.
Dave Hastings: We ended the quarter with $422 million in cash.
Dave Hastings: We grew revenue expanded margins reduced our corporate debt and made important investments in productivity initiatives that benefited both the quarter and the year importantly, during the third quarter, we demonstrated our significant operational progress by achieving profitability during a period of modest market improvement and we believe we.
David Hayes: Importantly, during the third quarter, we demonstrated our significant operational progress by achieving profitability during a period of modest market improvement. And we believe we are well-positioned to capture the benefits when the market eventually recovers. Our investments in products and operating leverage will provide the foundation for additional momentum in 2025 and beyond.
Dave Hastings: We're well positioned to capture the benefits when the market eventually recovers.
Dave Hastings: Our investments in products and operating leverage will provide the foundation for additional momentum in 2025 and beyond.
David Hayes: With that, we're ready to turn it back over to the operator for Q and A.
Dave Hastings: With that we're ready to turn it back over to the operator for Q&A operator.
Operator: Operator. Thank you.
Dave Hastings: Thank you and we will now begin the question and answer session if.
Operator: And we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, If you would like to withdraw your question, press star 1 a second time. If you are called upon to ask your question and are listening via speakerphone on your device, please pick up your handset and ensure that your phone is not on mute when asking your question. Again, it is star one if you would like to join.
Speaker Change: If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue.
Speaker Change: If you would like to withdraw your question Press Star one a second time.
Speaker Change: If you are called upon to ask your question and our listening via speaker phone on your device. Please pickup your handset and ensure that your phone is not on mute when asking your question.
Speaker Change: Again, it is star one if you would like to join the queue.
Doug Harter: And your first question comes from the line of Doug Harter with UBS. Thanks.
Speaker Change: And your first question comes from the line of Doug Harter with UBS. Your line is open.
Speaker Change: Okay.
David Hayes: Can you talk about how you're viewing your current cash liquidity situation and you know, kind of as part of that, what you would expect for servicing balances over the course of 25? Yeah. Hey, Doug. It's David Hayes. As you guys know, we've talked about this over past quarters that we have maintained heightened levels of liquidity considering the challenging mortgage market. And we expect to maintain heightened levels of liquidity over that period. We think we're running at excess liquidity levels. And so we've talked before about maintaining, you know, at least a 5%, around a 5% of assets of liquidity is sort of a target in this challenging market.
Speaker Change: Thanks can you talk about how you're viewing your current.
Speaker Change: Cash liquidity situation and kind of as part of that what you would expect for servicing balances over the course of 'twenty five.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Hey, Doug It's David Hayes.
Speaker Change: As you guys know we've talked about this over past quarters that we have maintained heightened levels of liquidity, considering the challenging mortgage market and we expect to maintain.
Speaker Change: Levels of liquidity over that period, we think we're running an excess liquidity levels and so we've talked before about maintaining.
Speaker Change: You know at least 5% around 5% of assets of liquidity is sort of a target in this challenging market and I think that's something we'll aim to do over the course of 2025.
David Hayes: And I think that's something we'll aim to do over the course of 2025.
Speaker Change: Yes.
David Hayes: Got it, and I guess just on the MSR outlook, you know, kind of how you think that'll play out. Do you expect more sales or kind of regular way kind of flow? Yeah, no, I think our view is we're going to try to maintain and build the servicing asset. We view that as a very strategic asset for the company. But obviously, and periodic times over the course of the last few years, we've had to sell that from time to time to meet some liquidity needs. But for now, we're going to continue to try to invest and grow that asset.
Speaker Change: Got it and then I guess just on the MSR outlook, you know kind of how do you think.
Speaker Change: That'll that'll play out do you expect more sales or kind of regular way.
Speaker Change: Kind of flow agreements.
Speaker Change: Yes, no I think.
Speaker Change: Our view is we're going to try to maintain and build the servicing asset we view that as a very strategic asset for the company.
Speaker Change: But obviously and periodic times over the course of the last few years, we've had to sell that from time to time to meet some liquidity needs, but for now we're going to continue to try to invest and grow that asset.
Doug Harter: Great, thank you.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Derek Sommers: And your next question comes from the line of Derek Sommers with Jeffreys. Hi, good afternoon.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of Derek Summers with Jefferies. Your line is open.
Derek Summers: Hi, Good afternoon could you speak to what the drivers of the sequential increase in the G&A expense and servicing expense.
David Hayes: Could you speak to what the drivers of the sequential increase in the G&A expense and servicing expense were? Yeah, the biggest is that G&A was a bit of kind of subsidized last quarter. We had a big insurance recovery related to in the third quarter, related to the cyber event. We took a large reserve in the second quarter and got the insurance recovery in the third quarter. So that was kind of understating expenses. So, it's kind of a return to normalization in the fourth quarter. And then generally, just in expense protocol, you know, we talked about investing in LOs and operations and carrying excess capacity, so that's also impacted a little bit of the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: The biggest is the G&A was a bit of.
Speaker Change: It's kind of subsidized last quarter, we had a big insurance recovery related to.
Speaker Change: In the third quarter related to the.
Speaker Change: The cyber event and we took a large reserve in the second quarter and got the insurance recovery in the third quarter. So that was kind of understating expenses.
Speaker Change: So that's kind of kind of a return to normalization in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: And then generally.
Speaker Change: In the expense profile.
Speaker Change: We talked about investing in L O and operations and carrying excess capacity. So that's also impacted a little bit in the fourth quarter.
David Hayes: You know, That's largely the explanation for the sequential change on that front.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: That's largely the explanation for the sequential change on that front from a servicing perspective.
David Hayes: From a servicing perspective, I think it's just the normal seasonality of the portfolio. We have seen a little bit of a tick up in our delinquency rate, which is attracting a little more expenses from a servicing perspective. But they're still, you know, well below historical norms. They're kind of coming off a historical norm perspective. So no concerns from that perspective on our end. Got it.
Speaker Change: I think it's just the normal seasonality of the portfolio, we have seen a little bit of a tick up in our delinquency rate, which is attracting a little more expenses from a servicing perspective, but they are still well below historical norms, they're kind of coming off of historical norm perspective, So no concerns from that perspective in Iran.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Derek Sommers: And just in terms of the volume guidance for OneCue, kind of what, what, Backdrop are you embedding in that guidance and you know, how does that compare to third party? Yes Yeah, so we're obviously setting our guidance off our expectations of sort of our LO counts and a lot of the investments we've made into the business. So we are expecting blocks to come down sequentially, kind of in line with normal seasonality in the business.
Speaker Change: Got it and just in terms of the volume guidance for <unk>.
Speaker Change: Kind of what.
Speaker Change: Kind of backdrop are you embedding in that guidance.
Speaker Change: How does that compare to third party estimates.
Speaker Change: Yeah. So we're obviously setting our guidance guidance off our expectations are sort of are.
Speaker Change: Our low costs are a lot of investments we've made into the business. So we are expecting.
Speaker Change: Fox to come down sequentially kind of in line with normal seasonality in the business.
Derek Sommers: That being said, I think if you look at some of the third party estimates, they're showing a more significant decline sequentially. And so we are, you know, hopeful that we can pick up some share gain in that period.
Speaker Change: That being said I think if you look at some of the third party estimates, they're showing a more significant decline sequentially and so we sir after you know hopeful that we can pick up some share gain in that period.
Derek Sommers: Okay, thank you for taking my question.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Ezra Minor: and Ezra Minor.
And as a reminder, it is star one if you would like to join the queue.
John Davis: And your next question comes from the line of John Davis with Raymond James. Hey guys, Taylor on for JD. Maybe just to start on your hiring expense plan. and 25 with the expected rebound in mortgage originations. How should we think about the operating leverage of the business going the next year, assuming, you know, the increase in mortgage origin? in fact pay out. Yeah, like I said, we're, you know, we've been investing strategically over the course of the third and fourth quarter into our kind of revenue generating expense side or LOs in our operations team. And if we lay that against the, let's say the MBA or the mortgage growth expectations in some of the third party, we would naturally expect the operating leverage to increase, we find LO productivity to get more productive as refinance markets start to materialize.
Speaker Change: And your next question comes from the line of John Davis with Raymond James Your line is open.
Speaker Change: Hey, guys Taylor on for J D. Maybe just to start on your hiring expense plans.
Speaker Change: And 25 with the expected rebound in mortgage originations just how should we think about the operating leverage of the business going into next year, assuming the increase in mortgage originations does in fact in fact payout play out.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yeah like I said, we're we've been investing strategically over the course of the third and fourth quarter into our kind of revenue generating and expense side or <unk> and our operations team.
Speaker Change: And if we play that against US, let's say, the NBA or the mortgage growth expectations and some of the third party.
Speaker Change: We would naturally expect.
Speaker Change: The operating leverage to increase we find L. O L O productivity to get more productive as refinance market start to materialize. So we should see better.
David Hayes: So we should see better pull through on a revenue to profitability perspective in that regard. And then just generally speaking, our expense perspective, that's where the hiring will be for the course of 2025. We're not expecting any significant back office or G&A expenses. In fact, modest reductions on that. Okay, got it.
Speaker Change: Pull through on.
Speaker Change: Our revenue and profitability perspective in that regard.
And then just generally speaking our expense perspective, that's where the hiring will be for the course of 2025, we're not expecting any significant back office, our G&A expenses in fact modest reductions on that front.
Speaker Change: Okay got it thank you.
John Davis: And then just one more.
Speaker Change: And then just one more on project North Star just obviously early days here, but.
David Hayes: On Project North Star, just obviously early days here, but just curious if you've, you know, if there's any updates with any of the initiatives, you know, whether that be traction and expanding geographies, JVs, cost saves, or anything. Yeah, I'll handle that. Look, I think Project Northstar, as you know, was unveiled last quarter, so it's in its formative stages, but we're already investing in the technology platforms that will enable a lot of our operating efficiency and reduced cycle times and improved customer experience. So a number of those are in flight, and we expect those to be progressively more impactful as we get into this year and certainly next year.
Speaker Change: But just curious if you if theres any updates with any of the initiatives, whether that'd be attraction in aesthetic geographies jv's cost saves or anything else. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I'll handle that look I think project North Star as you know was unveiled last quarter. So it didnt formative stages that we're already investing in the technology platforms that will enable a lot of our our operating efficiency and reduced cycle times and improve customer experience.
Speaker Change: A number of those are in flight.
Speaker Change: And we expect those to be progressively more impactful as we get into this year and certainly next year.
David Hayes: So I think that's all in good order.
Speaker Change: So I think.
Jeff Walsh: I think we've also announced two new JVs. Maybe Jeff can talk a little bit about those, because we expect those to come online over the course of next year as well.
Speaker Change: That's all in good order I think we've also announced two new Gabe's Navy, Jeff Jeff can talk a little bit about those because we expect those to come online over.
Speaker Change: Over the course of next year as well, but Jeff why don't you, yes, we are.
Jeff Walsh: Yeah, this is Jeff Walsh. We're actively onboarding now our partnership with Smith Douglas and with Onyx Homes, and we fully anticipate having those onboarded in 2025 fully and fully ramped in 2026, and also looking for additional opportunities in that space aggressively. Got it. Thanks, guys.
Speaker Change: This Jeff walked we're actively on boarding now our partnership with Smith, Smith, Douglas and with Onyx homes.
Speaker Change: And we fully anticipate having those on boarded in 2020.
Speaker Change: By fully in fully ramped in 2026 and <unk>.
Speaker Change: Also looking for additional opportunities in that space aggressively.
Speaker Change: Got it thanks guys.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Operator: And as a reminder, it is star one if you would like to ask a question.
Speaker Change: And as a reminder, it is star one if you would like to ask a question.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Frank Martell: And with no further questions at this time, Mr. Frank Martell, I will turn the call back over to you. Thanks, Debbie. Look, on behalf of Dave, Gerhard, Jeff Walsh, and Jeff DerGurahian, and the rest of our team, I want to thank everybody for joining us again today.
Speaker Change: And with no further questions at this time, Mr. Frank Martell, I will turn the call back over to you.
Frank Martell: Thanks Debbie.
Speaker Change: On behalf of Dave Gearhart, Jeff Walsh injected growing in the rest of our team I want to thank everybody for joining us again today.
Frank Martell: I'm proud of the dedication, resiliency, and accomplishments of Tame Loan Depot. The completion of Vision 2025 represents a significant and hard-fought victory for the company. And Project North Star, I believe, lays the foundation for a brighter future as the mortgage market comes back, and it certainly will come back. It's a big market. Home means everything, and it's central to the American dream. I believe the company is really well-positioned to meet the needs of a changing demographic of homeowners and homebuyers through our unique products, and Tame Loan Depot's direct engagement with our customers. So, thanks again to everybody for joining the call.
Speaker Change: I'm proud of the dedication resiliency and accomplishments of Tmall depot.
Speaker Change: A policeman of vision 2025 represents a significant and hard fought victory for the company.
Speaker Change: And project North Star I believe lays the foundation for a brighter future as the mortgage market comes back and it certainly will come back.
Speaker Change: Market.
Speaker Change: Home means everything and are central to the American Dream I believe the company is really well positioned to meet the needs of the changing demographic Palma homeowners and homebuyers through our unique products and team launched depot is direct engagement with our customers.
Speaker Change: So thanks again to everybody for joining the call I appreciate your support and the.
Operator: I appreciate your support, and the call will conclude now. And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call and we thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: The call will conclude out.
Speaker Change: And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call and we thank you for your participation you may now disconnect.
Operator: Please wait, the conference will begin shortly.
Speaker Change: Please wait the conference will begin shortly.
Speaker Change: [music].
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: [music].
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
[music].