Q4 2024 InfuSystem Holdings Inc Earnings Call

Operator: Good day and welcome to the InfuSystem Hldgs, Inc. reports fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results conference call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode.

Good day and welcome to the Infuse system Holdings, Inc. Reports fourth quarter and full year 'twenty 'twenty four financial results conference call.

All participants will be in a listen only mode.

Operator: Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on a touch-tone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star then two.

Should you need assistance. Please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero.

After todays presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions.

To ask a question you May press Star then one on a touchtone phone.

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Operator: Please note, this event is being recorded.

Please note this event is being recorded.

Joe Dorame: I would now like to turn the conference over to Joe Dorame of Lissom Partners. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the conference over to Joe Torre Mayor of Lytham Partners. Please go ahead.

Richard DiIorio: Good morning and thank you for joining us today to review InfuSystem's fourth quarter and full year 2024 financial results ended December 31st, 2024.

Rich Diorio: Good morning, and thank you for joining us today to review <unk> systems fourth quarter and full year 'twenty 'twenty four financial results ended December 31, 'twenty 'twenty four with US today on the call are rich Diorio, Chief Executive Officer, Barry Steele, Chief Financial Officer, and Carol a chance.

Joe Dorame: With us today on the call are Rich DiIorio, Chief Executive Officer, Barry Steele, Chief Financial Officer, and Carrie Lachance, President and Chief Operating Officer. After the conclusion of today's prepared remarks, we'll open the call for questions.

Carol Chance: President and Chief operating officer.

Carol Chance: After the conclusion of today's prepared remarks, we'll open the call for questions.

Joe Dorame: Before we begin with prepared remarks, I would like to remind everyone, certain statements made by the management team of InfuSystem during this conference call constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Except for the statements of historical fact, this conference call may contain forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties, some of which are detailed under risk factors in documents filed by the company with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including the annual report on Form 10-K for the year-end of December 31, 2023. Forward-looking statements speak only as of the date the statements were made.

Carol Chance: Before we begin with prepared remarks, I would like to remind everyone.

Speaker Change: Statements made by the management team up in few system. During this conference call constitute forward looking statements within the meaning of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

Speaker Change: Except for the statements of historical fact this conference call may contain forward looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties summer, which are detailed under risk factors in documents filed by the company with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including the annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31 2023.

Speaker Change: Forward looking statements speak only as of the date. The statements were made the company can give no assurance that such forward looking statements will prove to be correct.

Joe Dorame: The company can give no assurance that such forward-looking statements will prove to be correct.

Joe Dorame: InfuSystem does not undertake, and specifically disclaims, any obligation to update any forward-looking statement except as required by law.

Speaker Change: <unk> system does not undertake and specifically disclaims any obligation to update any forward looking statements, except as required by law now I'd like to turn the call over to rich Diiorio, Chief Executive Officer of <unk> system.

Richard DiIorio: Now I'd like to turn the call over to Rich DiIorio, Chief Executive Officer of InfuSystem. Rich DiIorio. Thank you, Joe, and good morning everyone. Welcome to InfuSystem's fourth quarter and fiscal 2024 year-end earnings call. Thank you all for joining us today. I'll begin the call with an overview of the fourth quarter in the year. After that, Barry will provide a detailed summary of our financial results. Carrie will give an update on our launch of ChemoMouthpiece. And then I'll have some additional comments before opening the line to questions.

Speaker Change: Rich.

Rich DiIorio: Thank you Joe and good morning, everyone welcome to MTS Systems' fourth quarter and fiscal 2024 year end earnings call. Thank you all for joining us today.

Rich DiIorio: I'll begin the call with an overview of the fourth quarter and the year after that barrel will provide a detailed summary of our financial results Gary will give an update on our launch of chemo My piece and then I'll have some additional comments before opening the line to questions.

Richard DiIorio: At the start of last year, we announced that 2024 would be an accretion year. After growing 14.4% in 2023, in part due to the rollout of the National Service Agreement with GE Healthcare, we communicated that our focus would be on continuous process improvements designed to deliver greater efficiencies and higher recurring and long-term profits. Our financial targets for the year were high single-digit revenue growth and adjusted EBITDA margin in the high teens, improving on the 17.8% result delivered in 2023. The year started out slowly, but as is common for our business, momentum grew as we progressed through the year, with the third quarter showing us tracking towards our targets.

Rich DiIorio: At the start of last year, we announced a 2024 would be an accretion year. After growing 14, 4% in 2023 and part due to the rollout of the National service agreement with GE healthcare, we communicated that our focus would be on continuous process improvements designed to deliver greater efficiencies and higher recurring and long term profits.

Rich DiIorio: Our financial targets for the year were high single digit revenue growth and adjusted EBITDA margin in the high teens improving on the 17, 8% result delivered in 2023.

Rich DiIorio: The year started off slowly, but as is common for our business momentum grew as we progress through the year with the third quarter, showing us tracking towards our targets.

Richard DiIorio: Our business momentum continued into the fourth quarter, and we delivered on our objective of making 2020 for an accretion year. Gross margins increase year-over-year by a full 2% to 52.2%. Operating income increased 69% from last year to $6.9 million. An adjusted EBITDA increased 13% to $25.3 million. Our adjusted EBITDA margin in the third and fourth quarters exceeded 22%, and for the full year came in at 18.8%, a full percentage point increase over 2023. This result is after $735,000 of technology systems upgrade costs that were not included in our original forecast for the year. Our revenue growth in 2024 also built up as we worked through the year, as we added new projects and scaled existing business lines.

Rich DiIorio: Our business momentum continued into the fourth quarter and we delivered on our objective of making 2024 and accretion year grew.

Rich DiIorio: Gross margins increased year over year by a full 2% to 52, 2%.

Rich DiIorio: Operating income increased 69% from last year to $6 9 million.

Rich DiIorio: And adjusted EBITDA increased 13% to $25 $3 million.

Rich DiIorio: Our adjusted EBITDA margin in the third and fourth quarters exceeded 22% and for the full year came in at 18, 8% a full percentage point increase over 2023.

Rich DiIorio: As a result is after $735000 of technology systems upgrade costs that were not included in our original forecast for the year.

Rich DiIorio: Our revenue growth in 2024 also built up as we work through the year as we added new projects and skilled existing business lines. We ended the year with revenues up seven 2% versus the prior year.

Richard DiIorio: We ended the year with revenues up 7.2% versus the prior year. This step up was a result of growth in almost every business line, including oncology and pain management, which were up 6.1% and 14.7% respectively. In device solutions, equipment rentals grew by 13.6%, equipment sales by 20.6%, driven by a large one-time transaction in the third quarter, and biomed grew by 6.7%.

Rich DiIorio: This step up was a result of growth in almost every business line, including oncology and pain management, which were up six 1% to 14, 7% respectively and.

Rich DiIorio: In device solutions equipment rental grew by 13, 6% equipment sales by 26% driven by a large one time transaction in the third quarter and Biomed grew by six 7%.

Richard DiIorio: The one business line that came in below our expectations for the year was WoundCare, and this was not due to a lack of business opportunity, but rather due to our decision to pause the onboarding of some new initiatives at the end of the year to ensure that the quality of the referrals align with existing resources and expectations as we prepare to ramp this initiative in 2025. Much of our recent focus in wound care involves partnering with regional wound care DME companies. to leverage our extensive payer contracts and expand upon our historic revenue cycle capabilities. We see a significant amount of opportunity for revenue cycle in the wound care space.

Rich DiIorio: The one business line that came in below our expectations for the year was wound care and this was not due to a lack of business opportunity, but rather due to our decision to pause the on boarding of some new initiatives at the end of the year to ensure that the quality of the referrals are aligned with existing resources and expectations as we prepare to ramp this initiative in 2025.

Rich DiIorio: Much of our recent focus on wound care involves partnering with regional wound care D&B companies to.

Rich DiIorio: To leverage our extensive payor contracts and expand upon our historic revenue cycle capabilities we.

Rich DiIorio: We see a significant amount of opportunity for revenue cycle on the wound care space and because of its long term importance. We are taking a conservative approach taking time to test our processes and improve the ways. We are receiving their referrals. So we can scale effectively.

Richard DiIorio: And because of its long-term importance, we are taking a conservative approach, taking time to test our processes and improve the ways we are receiving the referrals so we can scale effectively. This new business is in addition to the Smith & Nephew Negative Pressure Partnership, which continues to scale up as expected.

Rich DiIorio: This new business is in addition to the Smith <unk> nephew negative pressure partnership which continues to scale up as expected as we've highlighted in the past our core businesses, specifically in oncology and pump rentals are capital intensive that his growth requires investments in pumps to enable incremental growth.

Richard DiIorio: As we've highlighted in the past, our core businesses, specifically in oncology and pump rentals, are capital-intensive. That is, growth requires investments in pumps to enable incremental growth. Our newer initiatives in wound care and biomed are far less capital-intensive and, accordingly, will generally result in greater free cash flow. We can see the growing impact of this changing business in our 2024 financial statements. Our debt balance at year-end was down to a little more than $23 million. And remember, we still have a long-term interest rate swap on the first $20 million of debt at favorable below-market rates.

Rich DiIorio: Our newer initiatives in wound care and biomed far less capital intensive and accordingly will generally result in greater free cash flow, we can see the growing impact of this changing business in our 2024 financial statements our debt balance at year end was down to a little more than $23 million and remember we still have a long term interest rate swap on the first $20 million.

Rich DiIorio: Debt at favorable below market rates.

Richard DiIorio: We paid down debt in 2024 at a historic rate, and we did that after some larger-than-expected pump purchases during the year and $1.2 million of stock repurchases. Also, as reported in the press release, we have repurchased an additional $2.4 million in the first quarter of 2025.

Rich DiIorio: We paid down debt in 2024 at a historic rate and we did that after some larger than expected pump purchases during the year and $1.2 million of stock repurchases.

Rich DiIorio: As reported in our press release, we have repurchased an additional $2.4 million in the first quarter of 2025.

Barry Steele: I'll stop here and turn the call over to Barry to discuss our financial results in more detail.

Rich DiIorio: I'll stop here and turn the call over to Barry to discuss our financial results in more detail Barry.

Barry Steele: Thank you, Rich, and thank you, everyone, on the call for joining us. I'm going to focus on three topics, including the main drivers for the current quarter's results. I'll then talk about the high tax rate we show for the quarter. And finally, I'll update you on our current financial position and how it changed during the quarter.

Speaker Change: Thank you rich and thank you everyone on the call for joining us today.

Barry: I'm going to focus on three topics, including the main drivers for the current quarter's results. I'll then talk about the high tax rate, we show for the quarter and finally I'll update you on our current financial position and how it changed during the quarter.

Barry Steele: Now let me start with our financial results for the period. During the fourth quarter of 2024, our net revenue totaled $33.8 million, representing a $2 million, or 7%, increase from the prior year fourth quarter. That included growth in both of our operating segments with the patient services segment leading the way, reporting a year-over-year quarterly increase in net revenues totaling 1.6 million, or 8%. And the device solutions segment having increased net revenue of 475,000, or 4%. Higher net revenue for the patient services segment included increases due to higher treatment volumes in all three therapies. Oncology net revenue increased by nearly $1 million, or 6%.

Barry: Now, let me start with our financial results for the period during.

Barry: During the fourth quarter of 'twenty 'twenty four our net revenue totaled $33 8 million, representing a $2 million or 7% increase from the prior year fourth quarter.

That included growth in both of our operating segments with the patient services segment, leading the way reporting a year over year quarterly increase in net revenues totaling $1 6 million or 8% and.

Barry: And the device solutions segment, having increased net revenue of 475000 or 4%.

Barry: Higher net revenue for the patient services segment included increases due to higher treatment volumes in all three therapies.

Barry: Oncology net revenue increased by nearly 1 million or 6% advanced wound care revenue totaling 700000 was up by 342% and.

Barry Steele: Advanced wound care revenue totaling $700,000 was up by 342%. and pain management increased by 23%. These increases were partially offset by lower negative pressure wound therapy equipment sales due to a difficult comparison that included a surge in equipment leases in the prior year. The growth in device solutions was primarily attributable to higher rental revenues coming from new customers and was partially offset by lower biomedical services revenue related to a greater amount of seasonal downtime and large project timing impacts. Gross profit for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $18.2 million, which was $1.5 million or 16% higher than the prior year fourth quarter.

Barry: And pain management increased by 23%.

Barry: These increases were partially offset by lower negative pressure wound therapy equipment sales due to a difficult comparison that included a surge in equipment leases in the prior year.

The growth in device solutions, where it was primarily attributable to higher rental revenues coming from new customers and was partially offset by lower biomedical services revenue related to a greater amount of seasonal downtime and large project timing impacts.

Barry: Gross profit for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $18 2 million, which was $1 5 million or 16% higher than the prior year fourth quarter.

Barry Steele: Our Gross Margin Percentage was 53.8%, representing a 1.2% improvement over the prior year fourth quarter, amount of $52.6 billion. This improvement was mainly driven by favorable revenue mix favoring high-margin revenues such as oncology and rentals and lower negative pressure wound therapy equipment. Selling general and administrative expenses for the fourth quarter of 2024, totaling $15.6 million, was about the same as the prior year, despite including approximately $500,000 in expenses during the quarter associated with our business application upgrade project and a higher short-term incentive expense accrual, which was approximately $500,000 higher.

Barry: Our gross margin percentage was 53, 8%, representing a one 2% improvement over the prior year fourth quarter amount 52, 6%.

Barry: This improvement was mainly driven by a favorable revenue mix favoring higher margin revenues, such as oncology and rentals and lower negative pressure wound therapy equipment sales.

Barry: Selling general and administrative expenses for the fourth quarter of 2024 totaling $15 6 million was about the same as the prior year, despite including approximately 500000 and expenses during the quarter associated with our business application upgrade project and a higher short term incentive expense accrual, which.

Barry: Which was approximately 500000 higher.

Barry Steele: . These increases were offset by lower selling expenses, including commissions associated with a lower rate of revenue growth during the current year period as compared with the 2023 fourth quarter. Adjusted EBITDA during the 2024 fourth quarter was $7.5 million, or 22% of net revenue, which represented an increase of over $1.3 million, or 22% from the prior year fourth quarter. Our effective tax rate for the 2024 fourth quarter was 59% and was 54% for the full year. About 10% of this amount reflects tax deduction shortages on equity compensation. That is, the amount of actual tax benefits or deductions related to equity compensation realized by our employees was lower than the amount of expense for bookkeeping.

Barry: These increases were offset by lower selling expenses, including commissions associated with a lower rate of revenue growth during the current year period as compared with the 2023 or fourth quarter.

Barry: Adjusted EBITDA during the 'twenty 'twenty four fourth quarter was $7 5 million or 22% of net of net revenue, which represented an increase of over $1 3 million or 22% from the prior year fourth quarter.

Barry: Our effective tax rate for the 2020 for fourth quarter was 39% and it was 54% for the full year.

Barry: About 10% of this amount reflects tax deduction shortages and equity compensation that is the amount of actual tax benefits or deductions related to equity compensation realized by our employees was lower than the amount of expense for book purposes.

Barry Steele: This is because of the reduced value of equity awards related to the lower market price of our stock over the last few years. We expect this effect to continue in 2025. However, we can't predict to what extent. Other contributors to the higher rate include limitations on the deductibility of reimbursed meals for our travel teams and officers' compensation. and Impact for Local and Foreign Income Taxes for Jurisdictions where we do business. Our tax expense continues to be mostly non-cash due to the utilization of net operating loss carried.

Barry: This is because of the reduced value of equity award related to the lower market price of our stock over the last few years.

Barry: We expect this effect to continue in 2025, however, we can't predict to what extent other.

Barry: Other contributors to the higher rate include limitations on the deductibility of reimbursed meals for our travel teams and officers compensation.

Barry: And impact for local and foreign income taxes for jurisdictions, where we do business.

Barry: Tax expense continues to be mostly noncash due.

Barry: Due to the utilization of net operating loss carryforwards.

Barry Steele: Turning to a few points on our financial position and capital reserves. Our operating cash flow for the fourth quarter totaled $7.9 million. This amount was 70% higher than the amount for the prior year fourth quarter. This increase was due to higher operating income, net of non-cash expenses, and a reduction in our working capital levels as compared to the prior year when our working capital increased. The increase for the prior year, you may recall, was partly due to a high amount of sales-type lease revenue for negative pressure equipment and due to the growth of a contract asset associated with a GE healthcare contract during the prior year's onboarding.

Barry: Turning to a few points on our financial position and capital reserves.

Barry: Our operating cash flow for the fourth quarter totaled $7 9 million.

Barry: This amount was 70% higher than the amount for the prior year fourth quarter.

Barry: This increase was due to higher operating income net of noncash expenses and a reduction in our working capital levels as compared to the prior year when our working capital increased.

Barry: The increase for the prior year you may recall was partly due to high amount of sales type lease revenue for native pressure equipment and due to the growth of a contract asset associated with the GE healthcare contract during the prior year's Onboarding period.

Barry Steele: The increase contributed to the 2024 full year amount of operating cash flow, which totaled $20.5 million, representing an all-time annual record, topping the previous record set in 2020 during COVID. Our net capital expenditures were $3.3 million during the 2024 fourth quarter, which was higher than the $1.4 million we spent during the fourth quarter in 2023. The amount during the current period was focused on infusion pumps needed to support increased volume in oncology and the device solutions rental business, both of which are expected to continue to contribute to 2025 revenue growth. We continue to anticipate that our overall capital spending requirements will moderate as compared to amounts in prior years as the sources for our revenue growth will continue to be more weighted towards less capital-intensive revenue sources, such as biomedical services and advanced wound care supplies.

Barry: The increase contributed to the 2020 for your 'twenty 'twenty four full year amount of operating cash flow, which totaled $20 5 million, representing an all time annual record topping the previous record set in 2020 during COVID-19.

Barry: Our net capital expenditures were $3 3 million during the 'twenty 'twenty four fourth quarter, which was higher than the $1 4 million. We spent during the fourth quarter and 2023.

Barry: The amount during the current period was focused on infusion pumps needed to support increased volume and in college.

Barry: And the device solutions rental business, both of which are expected to continue contributing to 2025 revenue growth.

Barry: We continue to anticipate that our overall capital spending requirements will moderate as compared to amounts in prior years as the sources of our revenue.

Barry: Our revenue growth will continue to be more weighted towards less capital intensive revenue sources, such as biomedical services and advanced wound care supplies.

Barry Steele: We continue to be positioned well to fund continued net revenue growth with the growing cash flow from operations backed by significant liquidity reserves available from a revolving line of credit and manageable leverage and debt service requirements. Our net debt decreased by $4.3 million during the fourth quarter and by $5.3 million for the full year to $23.3 million, this despite having spent nearly $1.2 million during the year under our stock repurchase. Our available liquidity continued to be strong and totaled more than $51 million as of December 31, 2024. Our ratio of total debt to adjusted EBITDA was a modest 0.92 times.

Barry: We continue to be positioned well to fund continued net revenue growth with the growing cash flow from operations backed by significant liquidity reserves available from our revolving line of credit and manageable leverage and debt service requirements.

Barry: Our net debt decreased by $4 3 million during the fourth quarter and by $5 3 million for the full year to 20 to $23 3 million. This despite having spent nearly $1 2 million during the year under our stock repurchase plan.

Barry: Our available liquidity continue to be strong and totaled more than 51 million as of December 31 2024.

Barry: Our ratio of total debt to adjusted EBITDA with a modest nine two times our.

Barry Steele: Our debt consists of borrowings on a revolving line of credit with no term payment requirements, more than three years in the remaining term, and with $20 million of the outstanding balance locked in at a below market rate by an interest rate swap having the same expiration.

Barry: Our debt consisted of borrowings on our revolving line of credit with no term payment requirements more than three years and the remaining term and with $20 million of the outstanding balance locked in at a below market rate by an interest rate swap having the same exploration.

Carrie Lachance: Now I'll turn it over to Carrie. Thanks, Barry. I'd like to provide an update on ChemoMouthpiece. You will recall that in September, SI Healthcare Technologies, our joint venture with Sonara MedTech, signed an exclusive distribution agreement for ChemoMouthpiece. This product is used to reduce the incidence and severity of oral mucositis in patients undergoing chemotherapy. The device received 510K clearance in the first half of 2024 and then received an initial CPT code for reimbursement in July of 2024. SINARA helps identify the opportunity, and InfuSystem, with our deep relationships into more than 2,000 oncology centers, is well-positioned to distribute and support the product.

Kerry: Now I'll turn it over to Kerry.

Kerry: Thanks Barry.

Kerry: I'd like to provide an update on Cana Maltby, you will recall that in September <unk> health care technology, our joint venture with scenario Med Tech signed an exclusive distribution agreement for Keane My mouth piece. This product is used to reduce the incidence and severity of oral mucositis in patients undergoing chemotherapy the device received five.

Kerry: Hey clearance in the first half of 'twenty 'twenty four and then received an initial CPT codes for reimbursement in July of 2024.

Kerry: And helps identify the opportunity and empty system with our deep relationships into more than 2000 oncology centers is well positioned to distribute and support the product we're providing the tip of the spear for distributions for our existing oncology sales force aided by additional sales personnel from other parts of our business.

Carrie Lachance: We are providing the tip of the spear for distribution through our existing oncology sales force, aided by additional sales personnel from other parts of our business. We've made broad initial contact with our customers to educate on the availability of this new treatment opportunity and the reimbursement to hospitals provided by the CPT code. We have received a few small orders and are starting to see interest and momentum build. We are working with our partners at Kema Mouthpiece and are impressed by their clinical and marketing investment and capabilities. Currently, we are awaiting the publication of two clinical papers, the first on the medical efficacy of cryotherapy treatment and the second on the economics to hospitals of reducing the incidence of oral mucositis and the costs associated with treating patients with severe cases.

Kerry: We've made broad initial contact with our customers to educate on the availability of this new treatment opportunity and the reimbursement to hospitals provided by the CPT code. We've received a few small orders and are starting to see interest and momentum built we are working with our partners that came on maltby and are impressed by their clinical and marketing investment in case.

Kerry: Abilities. Currently we are awaiting the publication of two clinical papers. The first on the medical efficacy of crowd therapy treatment and the second on the economics to hospitals of reducing the incidence of oral mucositis and the costs associated with treating patients with severe cases.

Carrie Lachance: Precisely when the papers will be published is still unknown, but we do believe once providers understand the health benefits, chemo mouthpiece will see broad adoption, and oral cryotherapy utilizing the product will become common for cancer patients receiving chemotherapy.

Kerry: Precisely when the papers will be published is still unknown, but we do believe once providers to understand the health benefits came a mouth piece will see broad adoption and oral cryotherapy utilizing the products will become common for cancer patients receiving chemotherapy.

Richard DiIorio: Now I'll turn it back to Ruth.

Rich: Now I'll turn it back to rich.

Richard DiIorio: Thanks, Carrie. Moving to guidance, we're expecting revenue growth for the full year 2025 to come in between 8% and 10%, and our adjusted EBITDA to again demonstrate the leverage in our business by increasing at a faster rate, taking our adjusted EBITDA margin above the 18.8% delivered in 2024. This improved adjusted EBITDA is after the impact of costs related to our ongoing technology systems upgrade, which expenses are expected to be approximately $2.5 million in 2025.

Speaker Change: Thanks, Gary movie.

Speaker Change: Moving to guidance, we are expecting revenue growth for the full year 2025 to come in between 8% and 10%.

Speaker Change: And our adjusted EBITDA to again demonstrate the leverage in our business by increasing at a faster rate, taking our adjusted EBITDA margin above the 18, 8% delivered in 2024.

Speaker Change: This improved adjusted EBITDA is after the impact of costs related to our ongoing technology systems upgrade which expenses are expected to be approximately $2 $5 million in 2025.

Richard DiIorio: Without the impact of this upgrade program, which is expected to be largely completed this year, our outlook for the full year 2025 would be for adjusted EBITDA margins above 20%. As we have seen over the last couple of years, the first quarter adjusted EBITDA margin is expected to be lower in the first quarter than the rest of the year. We expect to have adjusted EBITDA margins in the mid-teens in the first quarter, offset by significantly higher adjusted EBITDA margins in the second half of the year, as we saw in both 2023 and 2024. This is a result of having higher expenses in the first quarter, such as a large portion of our audit expense, marketing expenses that occur earlier in the year, and higher patient financial responsibility before they start reaching their copay and deductible requirements.

Speaker Change: Without the impact of this upgrade program, which is expected to be largely completed this year.

Speaker Change: Our outlook for the full year 2025 would be for adjusted EBITDA margins above 20%.

Speaker Change: As we've seen over the last couple of years, the first quarter adjusted EBITDA margin is expected to be lower in the first quarter than the rest of the year.

Speaker Change: We expect to have adjusted EBITDA margins in the mid teens in the first quarter offset by significantly higher adjusted EBITDA margins in the second half of the year as we saw in both 2023 and 2024.

Speaker Change: This is a result of having higher expenses in the first quarter such as a large portion of our audit expense marketing expenses that occur earlier in the year and higher patient financial responsibility before they start reaching their copay and deductible requirements.

Richard DiIorio: Revenue should also ramp sequentially as we work throughout the year, scaling new projects, including our program of Smith and Nephew, the new wound care initiatives, and increased chemo mouthpiece adoption.

Speaker Change: Revenue should also ramp sequentially as we worked throughout the year scaling new projects, including our program of Smith <unk> nephew, the new wound care initiatives and increase came off piece adoption.

Operator: Operator, we are ready for the Q&A portion of the call. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on your touchtone phone.

Speaker Change: Operator, we are ready for the Q&A portion of the call.

Speaker Change: We will now begin the question and answer session.

Speaker Change: To ask a question you May Press Star then one on your Touchtone phone.

Operator: If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the... If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star then 2.

Speaker Change: If you are using a speakerphone please pick up your handset before pressing the keys.

Speaker Change: If at any time. Your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question. Please press Star then two.

Operator: At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.

Speaker Change: At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.

Speaker Change: The first question today comes from Brooks O'neil with Lake Street Capital markets. Please go ahead.

Aaron Warwick: The first question today comes from Brooks O'Neill with Lake Street Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Hey, good morning guys. This is Aaron on the line for Brooks. Are you able to hear me okay? Loud and clear. Good morning. Morning, thanks for taking our question.

Aaron: Hey, Good morning, guys. This is Aaron on the line for Brooks are you able to hear me okay.

Loud and clear.

Speaker Change: Good morning.

Speaker Change: Good morning, Thanks for taking our question. So you know you expect advanced wound care products should continue to grow in 2025 and beyond as we understand but that should be a good amount of the growth. This year, maybe can you just give us some additional color on what youre seeing in Baltimore carrier environment, you called out some specifics in your prepared remarks.

Richard DiIorio: So, you know, you expect advanced wound care products should continue to grow in 2025 and beyond, you know, as we understand that should be a good amount of the growth this year. And can you just give us some additional color on what you're seeing in both wound care and biomed, you know, you call out I don't know the specifics in your prepared remarks, but you know we just see both seem ripe with opportunity and I'm just kind of curious on the traction you're getting with some potential new customers in both those areas, you know, realizing those are less capital intensive.

Speaker Change: But you know, we just see both seem ripe with opportunity and I'm just kind of curious on the traction you're getting with some potential new customers in both those areas you're not realizing those are less capital intensive for the company.

Speaker Change: Sure. So I think the good news in 'twenty five similar to what we saw in 'twenty. Four is we're going to grow probably in all of our business lines.

Richard DiIorio: Sure, so I think the good news in 25, similar to what we saw in 24, is we're going to grow probably in all of our business lines. Aaron, you're definitely right, like advanced wound care is going to drive most of the growth. Biomed will contribute as well. And I think both of those... opportunity, or both of those lines have plenty of opportunity. So on the advanced wound care side, there's plenty of DMV partners that are coming to us and need help with referrals. That's what I mentioned about the end of last year. We saw a lot of that coming to us.

Speaker Change: Aaron you're definitely right like advanced wound care is going to drive most of the growth biomed will contribute as well so I think both of those.

Speaker Change: Opportunity or both of those lines have plenty of opportunities on the advanced wound care side.

Speaker Change: Theres plenty of Dnb partners that are coming to us and need help with referrals.

Speaker Change: What I mentioned about the end of last year, we saw a lot of that to come coming coming to US. We wanted to make sure we had our systems and processes and people in place.

Richard DiIorio: We wanted to make sure we had our systems and processes and people in place so we can scale it in 25. And on the biomed side, you know, obviously we have GE. They've given us a couple smaller opportunities that we've continued to add. We added Dignitana at the end of the year, that should roll out this year. And then there's other opportunities in the pipeline. So both of those businesses will grow for sure. I would say most of the growth will be driven by advanced wound care, biomed, and then we'll see, you know, what chemo mouthpiece can do this year.

Speaker Change: So we can scale it and 25.

Speaker Change: And then on the Biomet side.

Speaker Change: You know obviously, we have GE, they've given us a couple of smaller opportunities that we've continued to add we added dignitas a at the end of the year, so that should rollout this year.

Speaker Change: And then theres other other opportunities in the pipeline. So both of those businesses will grow for sure I.

Speaker Change: I would say most of the growth will be driven by advanced wound care Biomet and then we'll see what chemo most piece can do this year, but.

Aaron Warwick: But those are definitely contributors. And all three of those are very, very light from a capital cost. Understood, yeah, that's helpful.

Speaker Change: Those are definitely contributors in all three of those are very very light from a capital.

Speaker Change: Cost standpoint.

Speaker Change: Understood. Yeah. That's helpful. And then maybe just piggyback on what you just said on chemo mouthpiece and I'm curious, maybe just any feedback that you've received from oncology centers indoor patients you know I know Gary you called out.

Richard DiIorio: And then maybe just piggybacking off of what you just said on chemo mouthpiece, you know, I'm curious maybe just any feedback that you've received from oncology centers and or patients. You know, I know Carrie called out, we should be able to look out for those papers, but you know, obviously real, no real competition out there. Are you just beginning to see a real opportunity emerging from that? And do you think, you know, that will be a material contributor here this year? Thanks guys. Yeah. So, we are definitely seeing momentum building for sure. You know, the sales cycle will start to pop in the next few months.

Speaker Change: We should be able to look out for those papers, but you know obviously, we all know no real competition out there Oh, you're just beginning to see a real opportunity emerging from that and do you think that would be.

Speaker Change: A material contributor here this year thanks, guys.

Speaker Change: Yeah. So we are definitely seeing momentum building for sure.

Speaker Change: The sales cycle.

Speaker Change: We'll start to pop in the next few months, we'll know a lot in the next few months as far as how many orders start to come through.

Richard DiIorio: We'll know a lot in the next few months as far as how many orders start to come through, but definitely a lot of interest from customers. There are some customers that knew it was coming and were waiting for it. So, as Carrie mentioned, we had some small orders come in. We have some good-sized customers from a sales cycle standpoint that are pretty far down the process. We just have to see when they close. Is it, you know, this month? Is it in a few months? Time will tell in that respect. And then when the clinical trials come out and those get published, that'll definitely have a big impact on the market.

Speaker Change: But definitely a lot of interest from customers. There are some customers that knew it was coming and we are waiting for it so that as Kerry mentioned, we had some small orders come in.

Speaker Change: We have some good sized customers from a sales cycle standpoint that are pretty far down the process.

Speaker Change: We just have to see when they close is it this month visiting a few months time will tell from that in that respect and then when the clinical trials come out and that those get published that will definitely have a big impact on the market. There's a lot of physicians that just won't write it until they see that so yes.

Aaron Warwick: There's a lot of physicians that just won't write it until they see that. So, yeah, we're very happy with where Chemo Monthpiece is today. Awesome partner, as Carrie mentioned, and a great product that fits an unmet need in the marketplace. So, we think we can help a lot of patients, which will make all of us very successful if that's the case. Absolutely, I totally agree. We see that as a pretty big opportunity for you guys. So I appreciate you taking the questions. I'll hop back in queue. Thanks, everyone.

Speaker Change: Yes, we're very happy with where it came off pieces today awesome partner as Kerry mentioned and a great product that fits an unmet need.

Speaker Change: In the marketplace. So we think we can help a lot of patients which will make all of this very successful if that's the case.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Absolutely Yeah, I totally agree with you that is a pretty big opportunity for you guys. So I. Appreciate you taking the questions I'll hop back in queue.

Sarah: Thanks Sarah.

Matt Hewitt: The next question comes from Matt Hewitt with Craig Hallam Capital Group. Please go ahead. Good morning. Thanks for providing the update and taking the questions.

Sarah: The next question comes from Matt Hewitt with Craig Hallum Capital Group. Please go ahead.

Matt Hewitt: Good morning, Thanks for providing the update and taking the questions maybe first off regarding the referral process could you just kind of just walk through.

Richard DiIorio: Maybe first up, regarding the referral process, could you kind of just walk through what changes or how you're improving that process and kind of where you are in that? Is it something where you're largely complete and you expect to see that the benefits of that starting here in Q1 or does it take a little bit longer? And so the real benefit will come in the second half of the year. So I think we'll see a ramp throughout the year for sure. We should see some benefit in Q1, but really what it is, Matt, when we're talking about different DME suppliers coming to us with opportunities, they all have different systems, they all feed us information differently.

Matt Hewitt: What changes or how you're improving that process and kind of where you are in that is it something where you're largely complete and you expect to see that the benefits of that starting here in Q1 or does it take a little bit longer and so the real benefit will come in the second half of the year.

Matt Hewitt: So I think we will see a ramp throughout the year for sure.

Matt Hewitt: Should see some benefit in Q1, but really what it is Matt when we're talking about different dms suppliers coming to us with opportunities. They all have different systems. They all feed us information differently, we want to make sure we get the right information that it comes in at the right time, so that we are compliant.

Richard DiIorio: We wanna make sure we get the right information, that it comes in at the right time, so that we're compliant, and it comes in a form that we can then process it into our system. And depending on the partner, some partners it's gonna come in really clean early, and it's very easy to integrate with them, and some of them are a little more difficult, and we had a couple more of the difficult ones at the end of the year, but we're working through those. The good news is both sides kinda wanna be successful, and wanna help the patients out, so we'll get through there.

And it comes in a form that we can then process it into our system and depending on the partner some partners, it's going to come in really clean early and it's it's very easy to integrate with them and some of them are a little more difficult than we had a couple of more of the difficult ones at the end of the year, but we're working through those the good news is both sides kind of want to be successful and want to help the patients out. So we will get through there we'll see some impact.

Richard DiIorio: We'll see some impact in Q1, but as we go through the year, it'll get better and better. But that'll be a, it's not a one-time thing, it's a continual process every time we start with a new partner. So we will see some revenue this quarter from it, and build throughout the year, and hopefully for years to come. That's great.

Matt Hewitt: In Q1, but as we go through the year, it'll get better and better.

Matt Hewitt: But that'll be.

Matt Hewitt: It's not a onetime thing its a continual process every time, we start with a new partner. So we will see some revenue this quarter from it and build throughout the year and hopefully for years to come.

Speaker Change: That's great and then maybe a separate question regarding chemo mouthpiece that thank you for the update there obviously, a nice potential driver as we look at that if I'm not mistaken that should carry above corporate average margins, particularly on the gross margin side. So as we exit this year and get into next year I wouldn't.

Richard DiIorio: And maybe a separate question regarding chemo mouthpiece. Thank you for the for the update there. Obviously a nice potential driver. As we look at that, if I'm not mistaken, that should carry above corporate average margins, particularly on the gross margin side. So as we exit this year and get into next year, I would anticipate or correct me if I'm wrong, but anticipate a nice lift in gross margins as you see broader adoption of of that platform. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Dissipate or correct me, if I'm wrong, but anticipate a nice lift in gross margins as you see broader adoption of our of that platform. Thank you.

Richard DiIorio: That's not exactly correct. We do have good EBITDA margins on that product, but we are sharing with our partner, and so the profits will come through the equity line for us, and gross margin will be a little bit lower because of that. But it will be accretive to our overall EBITDA margin. Lengthily accretive to our EBITDA margin.

Speaker Change: That's not exactly correct, we do have a good EBITDA margins on that product, but we are sharing with our partner and so the profits will come through the equity line for us.

Speaker Change: Gross margin will be able to lower because of that.

But it will be accretive to our Q2, our world overall EBITDA margins.

Speaker Change: Lastly, accretive to our EBITDA margin.

Richard DiIorio: Okay, thank you for the clarification. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you for the clarification. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thanks, Matt.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Operator: As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star, then 1, to join the question.

Speaker Change: As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question. Please press Star then one to join the question queue.

Kyle Bauser: The next question comes from Kyle Bauser with B Riley Securities, please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions and a great update here. I'm just following up on Kimo Mal's piece in Dignitana. Can you just give us a sense as to... how material these businesses could be, or maybe talk about the addressable market, just kind of sizing up those opportunities to get a better sense of, you know, what. Sales number would be at. Sure. So, Dignitana's in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's not a huge contract, but it was a nice one to get because it was the first good size one outside of GE that helped that we'd leveraged our GE team, right?

Speaker Change: The next question comes from Kyle Bowser with B Riley Securities. Please go ahead.

Kyle Bowser: Hi, Good morning, Thanks for taking my question and Great update here.

Kyle Bowser: Just following up on chemo mouthpiece and didn't atonic can you just give us a sense as to.

Kyle Bowser: How material these efficiencies could be or maybe talk about the addressable market.

Kyle Bowser: Just kind of sizing up those opportunities to get a better system.

Kyle Bowser: Sure.

Kyle Bowser: Sales number would be at scale.

Kyle Bowser: Sure.

Kyle Bowser: So did katana is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's not it's not a huge contract.

Kyle Bowser: But it was a nice wanted to get because it was the first good size went outside of GE that hopes that we leveraged our GE team right. Our on site are not around Santana original technician team.

Richard DiIorio: Our onsite team, or not our onsite team, our regional technician team. Hopefully, it's the first of many that are kind of in the hundreds of thousands, low millions. Those are very easy to integrate, tend to be more profitable than the bigger ones. So, Dignitana's not a tremendous opportunity other than it shows us being able to use our capabilities and scalability of our team.

Kyle Bowser: Hopefully it's the first of many that are kind of in the hundreds of thousands low millions was a very easy to integrate.

Kyle Bowser: Tend to be more profitable than the bigger ones. So.

Kyle Bowser: So during the time, it's not a not a tremendous opportunity other than it's a it shows.

Kyle Bowser: Must be able to use our capabilities and scalability of our team.

Richard DiIorio: ChemoMouthpiece is a totally different product line. ChemoMouthpiece, the addressable market is in the hundreds of millions. I think it's around $500 or $600 million if you've got kind of wide adoption. I don't expect it to be that big necessarily, but that's the market. The fact is, it's a product that, you know, right now, when it comes to oral mucositis, there's no real product that helps reduce incidence and severity of it. And the standard of care today is ice chips. So, if you've ever been in a cancer center and the patient has ice in their mouth, that's why they're doing it.

Kyle Bowser: Chemo pieces, a totally different product line chemo piece the addressable market is in the hundreds of millions.

Kyle Bowser: Around five or $600 million, if you've got kind of wide adoption I don't expect it to be that big necessarily but that's the market.

Speaker Change: The fact is it's a product that right now when you when it comes to oral Mucositis Theres no real product that helps reduce incidents and severity of it in the standard of care today is ice chips. So if you've ever been in a cancer center and the patients as they send their most that's why they're doing it they're trying to cool their milestone.

Richard DiIorio: They're trying to cool their mouth down and shut down the uptake of the chemo in their oral cavity. So, it's certainly an unmet need. There's really no product like it. The reimbursement certainly helps. We'll see how the reimbursement adoption happens over the next year or so. But between reimbursement for the hospital, an unmet need for the patient, you know, it could be a revenue opportunity is huge. We have to wait for the studies to come out, which will be a big lift for us. But right now, what we've seen in the market is people are excited about having an opportunity in a new product that can help their patients, that there really is nothing to help them today.

Speaker Change: Cut down the uptake of the chemo and they're in the oral cavity. So it's certainly an unmet need there's really no product like at the.

Speaker Change: The reimbursement certainly helps and we will see how the reimbursement adoption happens over the next year or so but between reimbursement for the hospital and unmet need for the patient.

Speaker Change: Got.

Speaker Change: It could be a revenue generator, depending on reimbursement for the hospital.

Speaker Change: It's really the opportunity is huge we don't we have to wait for the studies to come out which will be a big lift for us.

Speaker Change: But right now what we've seen in the market as people are excited about having an opportunity and a new product that can help their patients that there really is nothing to help them today.

Kyle Bauser: So, that's why we're seeing that excitement. Everything from small private practices to huge hospital and teaching institutions are excited about it. So, we'll have to watch how the sales cycle plays out over the next few months, but we'll know a lot pretty soon as the sales cycle starts to hit. I appreciate that. That's exciting. I'm looking forward to seeing that play out.

Speaker Change: So that's why we're seeing that excitement everything from small private practices to huge hospital teaching institutions are excited about it. So we'll have to watch all of the sales cycle plays out over the next few months, but we'll know we'll know a lot pretty soon is the sales cycle starts to hit.

Speaker Change: Got it and I. Appreciate that then that's exciting looking forward to seeing that play out and then just on the guidance now.

Richard DiIorio: And then just on the guidance. Even a margin standpoint, can you just help me understand? kind of what are the key factors that. you know, will be big contributors to the earning leverage this year going north. https://www.infuSystem.com Yeah, so I think it's the continued efficiencies and improvement in the Biomed. We've seen some improvements. We're getting back. We expect more for next year. So just continue to hone that additional new business that we have into something that's much better than it's been. You're adding things like Dignitana help, leveraging that team and covering fixed costs. And then it's just the growth in the other areas.

Speaker Change: EBIT margin standpoint can you just help me understand.

Speaker Change: Kind of what are the key factors that you know well.

Speaker Change: There will be big contributors to the earning leverage this year deploying north of 18, 8%, obviously topline sales growth would be will be nice, but just help remind me what other factors are the most important being able to achieve that.

Speaker Change: Improvement in operating leverage thank you.

Speaker Change: Yeah, So I think it's the.

Speaker Change: Continued efficiencies and improvement and now the biomed, we've seen some improvements we're getting back we expect more for next year. So just continuing to hone that additional new business that we have into something thats that much better as it has been.

Speaker Change: Adding things like didn't account that they Montana help leveraging that team and covering fixed costs and then it's just the growth in the other areas. As we just mentioned came out pieces accretive to EBITDA margins, but we had some unusual expenses last year that has held us back a little bit those will disappear, but the only thing kind of working against US. This year is that we are spending on the ERP.

Richard DiIorio: As we just mentioned, QML piece is accretive to EBITDA margins. We had some unusual expenses last year that has held us back a little bit. Those will disappear. The only thing kind of working against us this year is that we are spending on the ERP, but we expect even with that expenditure, as Rich mentioned, will be better than the prior year in terms of profitability. Yeah, what's nice to see is if, you know, if you kind of put that to the side, because it's largely this year, the cost of that, our underlying EBITDA margin, we believe is over 20%, which is kind of what our target has been the last couple of years to get back to that threshold.

Speaker Change: But we expect even with that expenditure as rich mentioned, we will be better than the prior year in terms of profitability.

Speaker Change: What's nice to see is if you kind of put that to the side because it's largely this year the cost of that our underlying EBITDA margin. We believe is over 20%, which is kind of what our target has been the last couple of years to get back to that threshold. It looks like we're there.

Kyle Bauser: It looks like we're there. That's great. Excellent. Super helpful. Thanks so much. I'll jump back in queue. Thanks, Kyle.

Speaker Change: That's great excellent Super helpful. Thanks, So much I'll jump back in queue.

Kyle Bowser: Thanks Kyle.

Jim Sidoti: The next question comes from Jim Sidoti with Sidoti & Co. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning, thanks for taking the questions. You know, the oncology business, your biggest business, is up mid-single digits again in the quarter, which, you know... seems to be a pretty steady grower. Do you see any changes for that going forward? Do you think that'll continue to grow in that mid-single-digit level? Yeah.

Kyle Bowser: The next question comes from Jim Sidoti with Sidoti <unk> Co. Please go ahead.

Jim Sidoti: Hi, good morning, Thanks for taking the questions.

Kyle Bowser: Apologies business your biggest business.

Jim Sidoti: Mid single digits again in the quarter.

Kyle Bowser: Yeah.

Kyle Bowser: Seemed to be pretty steady grower.

Speaker Change: Do you see any changes for that going forward or do you think that will continue to grow in that mid single digit level.

Speaker Change: Yeah. Good morning, Jim I think that's a good question, it's beating our expectations in the last couple of years I think it's grown in two ways number one our team has done a good job just adding volume new new customers new sites new locations.

Richard DiIorio: Good morning, Jim. I think that's a good question. It's beaten our expectations the last couple of years. I think it's grown in two ways. Number one, our team has done a good job just adding volume, new customers, new sites, new locations. Our revenue cycle has also done a really good job at collecting more per dollar than we ever used to. And that's been the case for the last few years. They've been improving that. So it's a combination of those two things. I'd love to see every year be 6% to 8% like it has been the last couple of years.

Speaker Change: Our revenue cycle has also done a really good job at <unk>.

Speaker Change: Collecting more per dollar than we ever used to.

Speaker Change: That's been the case for the last few years, they've been improving that so it's a combination of those two things there'll be I'd love to see every year be 6% to 8% like it has been the last couple of years.

Jim Sidoti: I don't know how much more we can squeeze out of the revenue cycle side. I think we're getting about as good as we can get, but we're going to continue to add volume. So low to mid-single digits is probably a good place to be. I don't expect it to be more than six this year, but it shouldn't be less than three or four either. So it's probably in that range. Okay. All right. And, um...

Speaker Change: I don't know how much more we can squeeze out of the revenue cycle side I think we're getting about as good as we can get but we're going to continue to add volume.

Speaker Change: So low to mid single digits is probably a good place to be I don't expect it to be more than six this year.

Speaker Change: But it shouldnt be less than three or four either so it's probably in that range.

Speaker Change: Okay, Alright and.

Speaker Change: The the $2 5 million you're spending on the ERP upgrade, but I think you said that that should be done by the end of this year. So by 2026 do you think those costs are much lower.

Richard DiIorio: The $2.5 million you're spending on the ERP upgrade, I think you said that should be done by the end of this year, so by 2026 you think those costs are much lower? Yeah, I think the cost in 26 should be lower this year, you know, we'll have it ready to go. And then it's more of a timing of when do we implement and do the cutover from our existing system and your system. And that'll be early next year, we got to make sure it doesn't, you know, interact and interrupt the closing of the year for 25.

Speaker Change: Yes, I think the costs in 'twenty six should be lower this year, we'll have it ready to go and then it's more of a timing of when do we implement and do the cut over from our existing system in your system and that'll be early next year, we've got to make sure it doesn't interact and interrupt the closing of the year for 25%. So.

Jim Sidoti: So most of the costs will be will be in this year for sure. All right.

Speaker Change: Most of the costs will be will be in this year for sure.

Speaker Change: Alright, and then you Barry.

Richard DiIorio: And then, you know, Barry did a nice job going over the reason why the tax rate went up so much because of the option deductibility. But you mentioned the NOLs. Can you remind me how much NOLs you have and when do you think you start paying cash tax? Yeah, so after this year, we're down to around $20 million in NOLs remaining. So, but we do have some other timing differences that we'll be able to take some deductions for, bad debts, for example. We haven't been writing off some bad debts. So, I would expect that at the current rate of our profitability, we have a few years left before we'll be a cash taxpayer.

Speaker Change: Nice job going over the.

Speaker Change: Reason why the tax rate went up so much because of the the option deductibility, but yeah.

And the Nols can you remind me how much I don't know what else do you have and when do you think you'll start paying cash taxes.

Speaker Change: Yes. So after this year were down.

Speaker Change: Around $20 million and Nols remaining so, but we do have some other timing differences that will we'll be able to.

Speaker Change: Take some deductions for bad debts. For example, we haven't been writing off some bad debts.

So I would expect that at the current rate of our profitability. We have a few years left before will be a cash taxpayer, however will probably be improving on our pretax income and so I'll go a little faster than that.

Richard DiIorio: However, we'll probably be improving on our pre-tax income, and so it'll go a little faster than that. Okay. All right.

Speaker Change: Okay alright, thank you.

Jim Sidoti: Thank you.

Jim Sidoti: Thanks, Jim.

Operator: This concludes our question and answer session.

Jim Sidoti: This concludes our question and answer session.

Richard DiIorio: I would like to turn the conference back over to Richard DiIorio for any closing remarks.

Speaker Change: I would like to turn the conference back over to rich Diiorio for any closing remarks.

Richard DiIorio: Thank you, Betsy.

Rich DiIorio: Thank you Betsy I want to thank everyone for participating on today's call and we look forward to our next call to discuss our first quarter results. Thank.

Richard DiIorio: I want to thank everyone for participating on today's call, and we look forward to our next call to discuss our first quarter results. Thank you and have a great day.

Speaker Change: Thank you and have a great day.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Operator: The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation.

Speaker Change: The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation you may now disconnect.

Operator: You may now disconnect. © BF-WATCH TV 2021 © BF-WATCH TV 2021 © BF-WATCH TV 2021 © BF-WATCH TV 2021 © The Bulletproof Executive 2013 © BF-WATCH TV 2021 © BF-WATCH TV 2021

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