Q4 2024 Abacus Life Inc Earnings Call
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Michael Grondahl, Michael Grondahl, Paul
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Speaker Change: Today ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Abacus Global Management's fourth quarter, 2024, or next call.
Speaker Change: At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance, please press star zero and your telephone keypad. Please note this event is being recorded.
Speaker Change: I'd now like to turn the call over to Robert Phillips, Amicus Global Management, Senior Vice President of the Western Relations and Corporate Affairs. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Thank you, operator, and thank you everyone for joining Abacus Global Management's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings call. Here with me today are Jay Jackson, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer and Bill McCauley, Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker Change: This afternoon at 4.15 p.m. Eastern Time, Abacus Global Management released its fourth quarter 2024 results. This afternoon's call will allow participants to ask questions about our results.
Speaker Change: Before we begin, Abacus Global Management refers participants on this call to the Investor webpage, ir.abacusgm.com, for the press release, the investor information and filings with the SEC for a discussion of the risks that can affect the business.
Speaker Change: Abacus Global Management specifically refers participants to the presentation furnace today on Form 8K with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Speaker Change: and to remind listeners that some of the comments today may contain forward-looking statements and, as such, will be subject to risks and uncertainties which, if they materialize, could material effect results?
Speaker Change: For more information on the risks, uncertainties, and assumptions relating to forward-looking statements, please refer to Abacus Global Management's public filings.
Speaker Change: During the call, we will reference certain non-GAAP financial measures. Although we believe these measures provide useful supplemental information about our financial performance, they are not recognized measures and do not have standardized meanings under US generally accepted accounting principles or GAP.
Speaker Change: Police see our public filings for additional information regarding our non-GAAP financial measures, including references to comparable GAAP measures .
Speaker Change: With that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Jay Jackson, Chief Executive Officer.
Jay Jackson: Thanks Rob, and thank you to everyone joining us today for your interest in Advocates Global Management and welcome to our fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. After Bill, and I conclude our prepared remarks, we'll open it up to your questions.
Jay Jackson: Re-close 2024 with another outstanding quarter of profitable growth in achieving significant milestones, capping off a record year for Abacus.
Jay Jackson: In addition to our strong financial results, we effectively execute it on a number of strategic initiatives that have meaningfully expanded our business.
Jay Jackson: In 2024 alone, we strengthen our executive team through key hires.
Successfully raised substantial additional capital to fuel our growth initiatives.
Jay Jackson: achieved capital self-sufficiency on our balance sheet, completed two strategic acquisitions that have significantly expanded our capabilities and market reach. And dramatically grew both the scope and scale of our operations across multiple business
First, in terms of our results,
Jay Jackson: For the fourth quarter of 2024, we grew total revenue by 40% year over year to 33.2 million.
Jay Jackson: and recorded strong adjusted earnings, growing adjusted net income by 126% to 13.4 million and adjusted EBITDA by 51% year-over-year to 16.6 million.
Jay Jackson: Q4 was one of the many highlights in what proved to be an exceptional fiscal year 2024 for Abacus.
Jay Jackson: For the full year, we increased total revenue by 69% to 111.9 million.
Jay Jackson: grew adjusted net income by 58% year over year to 46.5 million and adjusted EBITDA, 57% to 61.6 million.
Jay Jackson: Additionally, we increased our policy originations by 63% to 1034 in 2024 and deployed over 344 million dollars in capital.
Jay Jackson: Much of our growth was driven by our continued marketing efforts, successful capital deployment, increased assets under management, and our expanding institutional relationships.
Jay Jackson: And we're well positioned for a strong 2025. We've initiated our full year 2025 outlook for adjusted net income to be between 70 million and 78 million, which implies another strong year of growth between 51% to 68%.
Jay Jackson: Bill will be along shortly to discuss our fourth quarter in full year financial performance in further detail.
Jay Jackson: The fourth quarter saw us make considerable progress in expanding our business operations meaningfully through thoughtful strategic investments both organic and inorganic.
Jay Jackson: During the quarter, we successfully completed the acquisitions of Carlyle Management Company SCA and SCF advisors, asset managers, which together added approximately 2.6 billion in assets under management to our portfolio.
Jay Jackson: These strategic acquisitions seamlessly integrate with our long-term vision of providing clients with holistic and tailored financial solutions.
Jay Jackson: Carlisle significantly expands our international footprint and enhances our offerings to institutional investors seeking attractive, risk-adjusted returns with low correlation to other asset classes.
Speaker Change: Their track record is a fund manager within the life settlement industry is unmatched. Their investment portfolio is truly differentiated and we could not be more thrilled to welcome Jose Garcia and the expert Carlisle team to the Abacus family.
Speaker Change: Meanwhile, SCF Advisors brings to Abacus innovative and specialized free cash flow focused ETF investment strategies. Their pioneering free cash flow quality model seeks free cash flow leaders in their industry while maintaining a high return on invested capital.
Speaker Change: This combination of free cash flow and rowick allows our investors to capture the leading most profitable companies in each category with one symbol.
Speaker Change: We rebranded the company to Advocates FCF Advisors, and in concert with the rebrand, we launched the new Advocates FCF Small Cap Leaders ETF, which carries the ticker ABLS.
Speaker Change: We also announced management fee reductions of 5 to 10 basis points across all of our ETS and an 18 month fee waiver of 20 basis points on 4 of the ETS.
Speaker Change: We've already integrated Carlisle and FCF into our organization. It was the ideal time to rebrand our company to Advocates Global Management, which better reflects our evolution in global market presence.
Speaker Change: Our revolution to Advocates Global Management represents a significant milestone in our company's journey to revolutionize financial services through expert asset management and by leveraging advanced technology to deliver personalized lifespan-based financial solutions.
Speaker Change: As a result of these investments, we are thrilled to provide our expanded offerings and solutions to our clients through our four distinct yet complimentary business segments, which we will elaborate on further in the weeks and months ahead.
Speaker Change: Solutions provides premium liquidity solutions for life insurance assets, helping thousands of clients maximize the value of their life insurance assets.
Speaker Change: Advocates Asset Group, serves institutional investors and select private clients with specialized, uncorrelated, and longevity-based assets and investment strategies.
Speaker Change: ABL Wealth redefines wealth management through our proprietary data and algorithms that create truly customized financial plans based on health, longevity, and overall financial
Speaker Change: and ABL Tech. Leverages are decades of experience and proprietary data to revolutionize the life planning industry through innovative technology solutions, serving pensions, insurance companies and asset managers.
Speaker Change: We also took a number of key steps during 2024 in terms of enhancing our balance sheet. And as a result, our liquidity position has never been stronger. In addition to our strong free cash generating business, we successfully raised 181.7 million and additional equity in two over-subscribed offerings, including the green shoe.
In order to fuel our growth initiatives
Speaker Change: Then, in December , we further enhanced our capital structure by securing a new, private 150 million debt financing facility with Sagarad and Varde partners.
Speaker Change: to Premier Financial Institutions, which ensures that we will continue growing our capabilities in 2025 and beyond without the need for additional equity raises.
Speaker Change: Additionally, in an effort to further simplify our capital structure, subsequent to year end we entered into private warrant exchange agreements in which we exchanged just under 5 million public warrants for an aggregate of over 1.1 million shares of newly issued common stock, representing a ratio of 0.23 shares per warrant.
Speaker Change: Looking ahead, we're off to a great start in 2025, as we expect to once again grow our full-year adjusted net income by over 50 percent, and we're committed to maintaining our momentum to firmly solidify Abacus as a leader in the alternative asset manager space.
Speaker Change: Our expanding business verticals proprietary technology and wealth of data provides us with clear competitive advantages to capture the vast opportunities before us.
Jay Jackson: With that, I'll now hand it over to our CFO , Bill McCauley, to discuss the specifics of our fourth quarter in full-year results.
Bill McCauley: Thanks Jay, and hello everyone. As Jay mentioned, we closed out 2024 with another solid quarter of top line growth and profitability.
Bill McCauley: The key driver of our business performance continues to be our highly efficient origination platform, while we continue to grow our expanded verticals that will contribute meaningfully to our future earnings.
Bill McCauley: In fourth quarter, 2024, capital deployed increased 41% to 96.6 million compared to 68.3 million in the prior year, while we grew policies originated to 214.
Bill McCauley: with the continued policy origination and capital deployment as of December 31, 2024, Abacus holds 719 policies with a value of 371.4 million on the balance sheet.
Bill McCauley: Total revenue in the fourth quarter, 2024, grew by 40%, to 33.2 million compared to 23.6 million in the prior year. The increase was primarily due to higher active management revenue.
Bill McCauley: For the full year of 2024, revenue increased 69% to 111.9 million compared to 66.4 million in the prior year.
Bill McCauley: Revenue increases were primarily driven by higher active management revenue due to increased capital deployed and more policies sold directly to third parties.
Bill McCauley: Turning to expenses, total operating expenses, excluding unrealized and realized gains and losses in the change in fair value of debt for the fourth quarter of 2024, were approximately 45.5 million compared to 18.9 million in the prior year.
Bill McCauley: The increase from the prior year period was primarily due to non-cash stock-based compensation, higher investments in SG&A. Notably, we increased our total employee head count to support our growth initiatives through policy acquisition and active management.
along with increased marketing to support our growth profile.
Bill McCauley: The company typically realizes the benefit of marketing spend within 90 to 120 days.
Bill McCauley: On an adjusted basis, excluding non-cash.compensation, business acquisition costs.
Bill McCauley: Ammonization and change and fair value of warrant liability. Net income for the fourth quarter of 2024 grew 126 percent to 13.4 million compared to 5.9 million in the prior year.
Bill McCauley: For the full year 2024, adjusted net income grew 58% to 46.5 million compared to 29.4 million in the prior year.
Bill McCauley: Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter grew 51% to 16.6 million compared to 11.1 million in the prior year.
Bill McCauley: Adjusted even a margin for 2024 was 55% compared to 59% for the prior year.
Bill McCauley: Gapnet loss attributable to stockholders for the quarter was 18.3 million compared to a net loss of 6.2 million in the prior year, primarily driven by 24.8 million of non-cash stock-based compensation, as well as non-recurring expenses related to our acquisitions.
Bill McCauley: Now turning to our balance sheet metrics for the full year 2024 adjusted return on equity was 17 percent and adjusted return on invested capital was 15 percent both reflecting our highly profitable business model
Bill McCauley: As of December 31, 2024, the company had cash and cash equivalents of 128.8 million balance cheap policy assets of 371.5 million and outstanding long-term debt of 342.4 million.
Jay Jackson: As Jay mentioned in his remarks, in an effort to provide more insight into our business, we're initiating our full year 2025 outlook for adjusted net income to be between 70 and 78 million.
Jay Jackson: The range implies growth of between 51 and 68% compared to full year 2024 adjusted net income of 46.5 million.
Jay Jackson: In summary, we are pleased with our extremely strong performance in 2024 as we delivered strong double-digit growth on our top line, as well as significantly growing profitability on an adjusted basis.
Jay Jackson: We remain very excited about the growth opportunities ahead in our well-positioned execute on our long-term plans. I will now turn it back to our CEO , Jay Jackson, for our closing comments.
Jay Jackson: Thanks Bill, in conclusion, I'm proud of all the accomplishments and milestones we achieved in 2024, in particular the significant expansion of our capabilities.
Jay Jackson: We remain very excited about the vast market opportunity in front of us and we're committed to building on our two-decade track record of financial success to deliver long-term, profitable growth.
Speaker Change: Again, thank you all for joining us today, and we appreciate your interest in Abacus Global Management. With that said, we look forward to your questions.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad and a confirmation tunnel indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two to remove your question from the queue.
Speaker Change: for participants using speaker equipment and maybe necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the start keys.
Speaker Change: And our first question comes from the line of Patrick David with Autonomous Research. Please proceed.
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for having me.
Speaker Change: I really appreciate the guidance range. Could you give us some color on the key swing factors and your assumptions between the high and low end and within that does the high end assume a full draw in deployment of the 50 million remaining on the revolver or would that be incremental? Thank you.
Hey Patrick, thank you for the question. And you know, the kind of key swing factors there is
Speaker Change: First and foremost, answer the 50 million. No, it's not dependent on that 50 million additional draw. We're really well positioned in how we look at 25 our origination is one key driver. We're also looking at as we have integrated some of our asset management and having that roll into. Thank you.
and some of the balance sheet is...
is also impacting that.
Speaker Change: and you know, we put the range there because we also, what we believe we see is also some significant upside, the things that can continue to go well as we continue to integrate our businesses, raise more capital under our Abacus Asset Group through both our Carlyle acquisition, our ETFs and other strategies that we have coming out in 2025. So, you know, it's interesting to see, you know, the additional 50 million what impact that could have and where we could fit in.
You know, that would be incremental, so.
Speaker Change: and then higher level, I think you paused advertising around the election, so maybe update us on how the direct channel metrics have been tracking since you started that back out.
Speaker Change: Sure, in relationship to advertising, and one thing I'll correct you on this quickly is that we didn't pause total advertising what we did was we moved advertising to non-swing states.
Speaker Change: and the, you know, where those dollars could be could go further in the non-sweetened state. So we were still advertising, we were just doing it in a little more targeted way, and we're continuing our advertising campaign. We continue to see the success of that campaign, and as we track out our cost of...
Speaker Change: of Spin on the advertising, it's still positive, meaning that it's still very accretive in relationship to the amount of spin that we have in the relationship to the amount of policies and impact we ultimately have on those consumers. And what I like to talk about too is that we're having an impact in spreading the word related to our financial advisors and agents. You know, we receive, you know.
Speaker Change: I have many calls from them saying, hey, we saw the ad. We're also interested in, we have a client that's interested in well as well. So our targeted advertising is continuing to grow. We expect that to continue through 2025 because its impact has been positive.
Thank you.
Crispin Love: And the next question comes from the line of Crispin Love with Piper Sammler. Please proceed.
Crispin Love: Thank you. I appreciate you taking my questions. Coming off of the November equity capital raise in the debt offering in December , how much of that was deployed in the fourth quarter and the first quarter to date, and when would you expect to be fully deployed?
Crispin Love: Sure, you know, there's two responses to that. First, we had a very successful year end and we were able to deploy that capital on I think if you look at what we reported in the press release and
Crispin Love: and Kay coming out is that you'll see that the cash is still a very decent size cash position at the end of 2024 showing around $131 million of cash. So we did get a significant amount of that deployed even though it happened.
Crispin Love: So wait, right, it was just I think the first week in December and totally right around then so we felt really good about the deployment then it had an impact to q4 which which we were happy about but what I am most excited about is that you know we've got we're in a great position with capital coming into q1
Crispin Love: and so, you know, as we're deploying that capital through Q1 at or better than results then we have in even prior quarters. That's why we felt comfortable putting out the guidance.
Crispin Love: and the guidance we put out was the low range of the guidance was above consensus and of course the top range was
Crispin Love: was almost, I think, around 12% higher over what the low end of that range was.
Crispin Love: because of that in deploying that capital, we think we're in a great position and I said it earlier where I highlighted as we're continuing to recycle the contracts on our book, remember, we're booking realized gains as a portion of all these revenues and as that continues to occur.
Crispin Love: Coffee products as well as the success of Carlisle in their raising capital efforts. It puts us in a really strong position where...
Crispin Love: <unk> million dollars of that at some point in any given quarter well, we're going to buy more policies right. So you know as you start to think about what the balance sheet amount will be you'll start to see that consistently hover.
Crispin Love: $3 70 to $4 50, because even though we sell policies, we're replacing them with policies. So youll constantly see that kind of hover around that number as we have capital to deploy it with the ROIC and ROE that we've historically earned we think thats the best place for for a majority of our capital.
Crispin Love: Great. Thank you Jay and I appreciate taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Sure. Thanks Christian.
Speaker Change: The next question comes from the line of Randy Binner with B Riley Securities. Please proceed.
Randy Binner: Hey, thanks.
Randy Binner: And on the 10-K, yet, but can you provide an update on the carrier buyback program both in the fourth quarter and how you see that moving forward throughout 2025.
Randy Binner: Sure and E V carrier buyback program continues to expand for us and it's beyond carriers, and having conversations with reinsurers and others, but the program itself. You know these are very large entities and thinking about structure and the best way to structure those transactions as they continue to grow in size we had a.
Randy Binner: Successful 24 in that program and we anticipate a successful 25 by broadening out additional relationships as we're working through.
Randy Binner: A large relationship now and we're just kind of finalizing how that structure of cash deployment happens from that carrier. So those those transactions, though tend to be a little lumpy in nature.
Randy Binner: And so when you think about that is you tend to see them in any one quarter or another that might be more versus less than any single quarter, just depending on how much that carrier might be particularly purchasing during that time period. So.
Randy Binner: We're still very positive on that segment of our business, we're consistently working on and developing new structures. So that they could potentially either by more add more carriers and reinsurers to that program. So we're quite positive about it and think it will continue to grow over time.
Speaker Change: That's great. Thank you for that and well look we'll look to in the 10-K for further details as yet another one I had and it's really in response to questions. We're getting from investors is are you seeing any change in behavior.
Randy Binner: From.
Randy Binner: Individuals who are lifestyle and their policies with you.
Randy Binner: I know that you shifted the advertising a little bit but the question is more as you know.
Randy Binner: Is the current economic environment changing.
Randy Binner: Propensity of individuals to move forward or is there no effect as a totally uncorrelated. Because this is a question that comes up a lot.
Randy Binner: Sure and it's a fair question I think.
Randy Binner: Whenever you have volatility in the markets right. We see this in twofold. One there are individuals, particularly driven from their financial advisors, where they might be looking for other sources of capital to bring into their portfolio and they may just may not realize that their life insurance policy has liquidity in this way and so I think in volatile markets.
Randy Binner: On both sides is typically can be pretty positive for us where you have uncertainty and do that uncertainty that can increase origination interest as people are seeking.
Randy Binner: Additional liquidity sources and our own portfolio and then a second piece of that is through the investor side right.
Randy Binner: Investors are also seeking unique assets, maybe alternative assets that are typically last correlated in other markets.
Randy Binner: It's also a very interesting asset to invest in and so what we have been I think.
Randy Binner: Unfortunately.
Randy Binner: And not only completing the acquisition with Carlile, but also launching some other funds.
Randy Binner: Not launching but rather continuing the offering on some of our other products, where we're on our fourth and fifth offering on some of these.
Randy Binner: Those products have a very high level of interest.
Randy Binner: GP LP type funds from traditional registered investment advisors, who are kind of clients, who are looking for different types of yield than they might normally expect in these kinds of volatile market. So to answer. Your question is is that we're really well positioned in this kind of market going forward right and in a volatile market. Yeah, we tend to see some interest.
Randy Binner: And we are in relationship to consumers and work more importantly, their advisors.
Randy Binner: Seeking liquidity or additional capital for further accounts and then the second piece of that is on an investor basis, we tend to see an uptick in investors seeking out the asset to investor.
Okay, great. Thanks appreciate it.
Randy Binner: Sure.
Speaker Change: And the next question comes from the line of Mike Grondahl with Northland Securities. Please proceed.
Mike Grondahl: Hey, guys good evening.
Speaker Change: A question kind of.
Mike Grondahl: Year end.
Mike Grondahl: AUM at Carlisle and F C.
Mike Grondahl: Yes.
Mike Grondahl: And I don't know if you can update us for roughly AUM today, and just what do you think that growth rate is over 25 with some of these new offerings.
Mike Grondahl: Yeah Fair.
Mike Grondahl: A fair question Mike.
Mike Grondahl: Yeah.
Mike Grondahl: I can't put out nonpublic information that isn't out yet for Q1 for both of those entities, but what I can tell you is is that the response has been incredibly positive to the partner to the acquisition that advocates out of both of those entities will start with the Carlyle group as they are working through a rebrand as well as part of the Abacus Global management umbrella.
Mike Grondahl: And we.
Mike Grondahl: We have met with and done meetings are SaaS it out of cash as well as in partnership with the teams at Carlisle traveled globally, all over the world to Asia, and Europe to speak to their investors and I think the sentiment is incredibly positive.
Mike Grondahl: I think they.
Mike Grondahl: When we were looking at their book of assets, we have very conservative estimates as to new capital raises and and I think that as we look at 25 I believe that we will hit those so we've already got significant interest and honestly, Mike This market favorable for that right just as I highlighted in the other question Mike.
Mike Grondahl: So we're we're bullish on what the AUM could look like over time, when it comes to whether its Carlisle our own funds and.
Mike Grondahl: <unk> believe that this will have a positive impact and again, that's why we put out an adjusted net income number the net income number that I think we're quite bullish on our company.
Mike Grondahl: In relationship to Mcf advisors that rebranding and integration took place.
Speaker Change: Right away.
Speaker Change: And we did announce that publicly to where it was rebranded as advocates FCS advisors and also.
Speaker Change: Change the name of their funds to leaders, meaning that they were primarily focused on the top equity leaders in free cash flow and grow it along with a couple of other.
Speaker Change: Additions to <unk> portfolio, and what we have seen in this type of market on a bottom up approach like that way are simply looking for the top 50, most profitable businesses in technology or real assets or small cap, we've had a huge interest in those etfs.
Speaker Change: Where people are looking for maybe more of a consolidated ETF portfolio.
Speaker Change: We continue to evolve that brand. This is going to what I believe evolve I'll also into a brand of lifespan based target date funds and we're also working on that and incorporating those models into that product. So.
Speaker Change: More to come on that.
Speaker Change: We certainly had positive outcomes on both of those entities and that will be reporting in Q1 speaking about increased assets under management in bulk.
Speaker Change: While Fcs as well as abacus as proprietary funds.
Speaker Change: Got it and then just lastly, as part of the integration of FCS.
Speaker Change: Have you been able to get your leads off the website over the MTF has that been completed yet.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: A broader strategy.
Speaker Change: Answer your question, specifically, we have not integrated our lead process into the Etfs, but I would tell you that that could not yet.
Speaker Change: It's something that that we are in the process of integrating.
Speaker Change: And you heard me talked briefly earlier about.
Speaker Change: One of our business.
Speaker Change: <unk> state that we're proud of and that we believe is going to have a significant impact on the market called ABL, which is our financial advisor Division.
Speaker Change: And as that division can continues to build and grow.
Speaker Change: We believe that will create significant opportunity to help manage some of the inquiries that we received from broadly consumers with a variety of different financial needs that maybe don't qualify to sell their policy that we could certainly utilizing those ETF products as well as offer financial advice to in a more broader lifecycle.
Speaker Change: Got it Okay, hey, thank you.
Mike Grondahl: Sure. Thanks, Mike.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder people like to answer your question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.
Mike Grondahl: Okay.
Speaker Change: And the next question will come from the line of Andrew <unk> with TD Securities. Please proceed.
Andrew: Hey, good evening guys.
Clay Anderson: Clay Anderson.
Clay Anderson: Hey, so the first question is around EBITDA margin. So I think you came in at 55%.
Clay Anderson: This quarter, how should we think about it going into 2025.
Clay Anderson: Yeah.
Clay Anderson: <unk> historically said on other calls and publicly that.
Clay Anderson: <unk>.
Clay Anderson: We were always trying to target EBITDA margins greater than 50, which would put us in a very elite category of businesses that Brian very high margin profitable businesses.
Clay Anderson: And so within any given quarter you might see it go from 50, all the way up to nearly 60, which is what we had happen from Q Q3.
Clay Anderson: But part of that could be driven by the fact that are we buying more policies are we putting more asset management fees to work, but I think youll start to see here over time, Andrew is more more consistency right and what I mean by that is our business is starting to really shift towards a true recognizable.
Clay Anderson: Fee related earnings and driven by asset management, driven by servicing fees and valuation fees driven by our ABL taxis that earn those are five year monthly paid contracts, so our three and five year or so.
Clay Anderson: As more and more of the business is now shifting in that direction I think that while still maintaining a very high EBITDA margin, you'll see more consistency in it long term.
Clay Anderson: Got it.
Clay Anderson: It makes sense and then maybe taking the smallest line item technology services at 33000.
Speaker Change: How do you see that playing out how do you see the growth coming in this year.
Clay Anderson: Sure so.
Speaker Change: When we think about the ABL effect division, even today, they provide mortality verification services.
Speaker Change: Pension funds and life insurance companies and carriers as a primary source of their business. They also do valuation work.
Speaker Change: And my spam data work in aggregate that data what.
Speaker Change: What I like about that business as the upside right like we just launched that business effectively to third party.
Speaker Change: Clients in March of last year, So effectively just one year old and now were moved to a point to where we are right at the point of profitability.
Speaker Change: We've gone from.
Speaker Change: Effectively zero revenue to a point now to where we have revenue and we will be reporting that revenue as a separate line item.
Speaker Change: So those tech services are going to continue to expand.
Speaker Change: And I believe I said on our call Gosh last summer, where I talked about that being material to our earnings in two years and I think we're on track for that.
Speaker Change: Got it would be summer 26, I think that we can be material there.
Speaker Change: Got it and then just one last one on the capital deployed came in around $97 million.
Speaker Change: Yes kind of make your guidance does that kind of stay steady and it's all the other areas.
Speaker Change: Net debt.
Speaker Change: Driving the upside to the.
Speaker Change: Adjusted net income.
Speaker Change: Andrew I think that's the right way to think about it and that's why we felt so comfortable about that guidance.
Speaker Change: As we think about the capital deployed we felt we felt we were incredibly well positioned for that and then.
Speaker Change: Upside was these additional areas that we're already recognizing integrated and strategic revenue from so.
Speaker Change: We think that again, we're in we're in a great position.
Speaker Change: Looking into 2025.
We feel good about where we're at.
Speaker Change: Makes sense, thanks, a lot.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: There are no further questions at this time.
I'd like to turn the call back to Joe Jackson for closing remarks.
Joe Jackson: Great. Thank you everyone and as we've said we are looking forward to 2025 2024 was a terrific year for us in fact, a historical year and where we saw it.
Speaker Change: Increase year over year.
Speaker Change: 23 to 24 of which 23 was a record year of 50 plus percent and now with our guidance and 25, we're talking about a 51% to 68% increase I think based upon the fundamentals of our company and the profitability of our business.
Speaker Change: We believe that our company and in our businesses is in the right place and that we along with you as shareholders.
Speaker Change: We are incredibly grateful for you and we're going to work very very hard this year to ensure that we get our story out.
Speaker Change: And and attending conferences and telling the message because I think that's one area that that we could be better at is making sure that investors and others really understand our story because what I know about markets in general is over the long term they are efficient and being that they are efficient and you look at the fundamentals of our stock. If we can continue now to tell that story and have people.
Speaker Change: Continue to understand and be better at that I believe that that'll be recognized and value to our shareholders. So we are grateful for you and look forward to this this year and many years to come thank you.
Speaker Change: This concludes today's conference you may disconnect your lines at this time and enjoy the rest of your day.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: [music].