Full Year 2024 Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp Ltd Earnings Call

February 26, 2025

Before group net profit was 759 billion Singapore dollars up.

Goh Chin Yee: Yeah, 2024 group net profit was SGD 7.59 billion, up 8%. This was driven by robust income growth across our three key pillars of banking, wealth management, and insurance. Total income surged above SGD 14 billion for the first time to a new high from broad-based income growth. Net interest income rose to a record of SGD 9.76 billion, supported by 5% asset growth. Non-interest income grew 22% to SGD 4.72 billion. Wealth related fees and insurance income delivered strong growth, while our trading income rose to a record high. Cost-to-income ratio was below 40% at 39.7%. We achieved high single digit loan growth and deposit growth this year. Loan growth of 8% was above our guidance level.

This was driven by robust income growth across our three key pillars of our banking wealth management and insurance.

Total income such above sing Singapore dollars 14 billion for the first time to a new high.

From brought based income growth.

Net interest income rose to a record of $97 6 billion supported by 5% asset growth.

Noninterest income grew 22% to $4 72 billion.

It's believed that fees and insurance income delivered strong growth.

Our trading income rose to a record high.

Cost to income ratio was below 40%.

At 39, 7%.

We achieved high single digit loan growth and deposit growth this year.

Growth of 8% was above our guidance level.

Portfolio quality.

Remained healthy.

Goh Chin Yee: Portfolio quality remained healthy with our NPL ratio lower at 0.9% year-on-year. Total credit costs were also lower at 19 basis points. Our capital position remains strong. Transitional CET1 ratio was 17.1% and fully phased in CET1 ratio at 15.3%. With our resilient results and strong capital position, we are pleased to announce a new two-year capital return plan to enhance shareholders return. SGD 2.5 billion capital distribution over two years through special dividends and share buybacks. We will initiate our capital return to start early with a special dividend for FY 2024 and another one for FY 2025, set at 10% of our group net profit. The balance of around SGD 1 billion will be via share buybacks over two years at management discretion and barring any unforeseen circumstances.

Our NPL ratio.

ROA at 0.9% year on year.

Total credit costs were also lower at 19 basis points.

Our capital position remains strong.

You should know CET, one ratio was 17, 1%.

And fully phased in CET, one ratio at 15, 3%.

With a resilient results and strong capital position, we are pleased to announce a new two year capital return plan to enhance shareholder return.

Okay.

$2 5 billion in Singapore dollars capital distributions over two years.

Through special dividends and share buybacks.

We will initiate our capital return to start early.

If a special dividend for FY 'twenty, four and another one for FY 'twenty five set at 10% of our group net profit.

The balance.

Of around Singapore dollars 1 billion will be why is share buybacks over two years at management discretion and barring any unforeseen circumstances.

The shares will be acquired from open market and there'll be canceled.

Goh Chin Yee: The shares will be acquired from open market and will be canceled. This means that total dividend payout of 60% annually for FY 2024 and FY 2025, i.e., 50% target payout ratio for ordinary dividend and an additional 10% in special dividend. For FY 2024, we propose final ordinary dividend of SGD 0.41 per share, bringing our total ordinary dividends to SGD 0.85 or 50% of our group profit. We further propose a special dividend at SGD 0.16 per share or 10% of our group profit. That comes to a total of SGD 1.01 per share, 23% higher than SGD 0.82 that we paid in FY 2023. We will repeat the 60% dividend payout for FY 2025.

This means that total dividend payout of 60% annually for FY 'twenty, four and FY 'twenty five I E 50%.

Target payout ratio for ordinary dividend and an additional 10% in special dividend.

For FY 'twenty fall, we propose final ordinary dividend of 41 cents per share, bringing our total ordinary dividend to <unk> 85 cents off 50% of all.

Profit, we further propose a special dividend at 16 cents per share all 10% of our group profit.

That comes to a total of 101 cents per share 23% higher than it would be to sense that we pay in FY <unk> to treat.

We will repeat the 60% dividend payout for FY 'twenty five.

Now our capital return plan is set after a comprehensive review of capital of our capital position.

Goh Chin Yee: Now, our capital return plan is set after a comprehensive review of capital, of our capital position, taking into consideration the capital required to support our business growth, investment options available to us, and based on our target 14% fully phased in CET1 ratio. Now, let's move back to our financial results on slide 5. For full year of 2024, we reported record profits for both group and banking operations for the third consecutive year. For the Q4, group net profit was 4% higher year-over-year. Quarter-over-quarter, group net profit declined 15%. This was partly due to the decline in insurance income from Great Eastern, arising from changes in medical insurance business in its core markets of both Singapore and Malaysia. These changes were explained in Great Eastern's results, which was released yesterday.

Take into consideration the capital required to support our business growth investment options available to us.

And based on our pod got 14% fully phased in CET one ratio.

Now, let's move back to our financial results on slide five.

For full year of 'twenty, four we reported record profits for both grouped and banking operations for the third consecutive year.

For the fourth quarter group net profit was 4% higher year on year.

Quarter on quarter group net profit declined 15%.

This was partly due to the decline in insurance income from Grayson.

Arising from changes in medical insurance business in its core markets of both Singapore and Malaysia.

These changes will explain are in greatest sense results, which Russell release yesterday.

At banking operations level net profit declined by a smaller degree of 9%.

Goh Chin Yee: At banking operations level, net profit declined by a smaller degree of 9%, due primarily to seasonal slowdown in trading and investment activities. Earlier on, I mentioned that our record profit was driven by strong contribution and performance across three key business pillars of banking, wealth management, and insurance. This reflected the power of our diversified franchise and collective strength as one OCBC group to deliver continuous sustainable growth and improve shareholders' returns. Banking operations reported a third year of record profit, driven by strong income growth. Wealth management businesses continue to grow from strength to strength. Both wealth management income and assets under management delivered double digit growth to new record levels. Our wealth management income rose 13% to SGD 4.89 billion. Assets under management rose 14% to SGD 299 billion, led by continuous net new money inflows.

Do you primarily to season, so no slowdown in trading and investment activities.

Earlier on I mentioned that our record profit was driven by strong contribution and performance across three key business pillars of banking wealth management and insurance. This.

This reflects the power of our diversified franchise and collective strength.

One Oh, CBC group to deliver continuous sustainable growth and improve shareholder returns.

Banking operations report.

That year of record profit.

Driven by strong income growth.

Wealth management businesses continue to grow from strength to strength.

Both wealth management income and assets under management deliver double digit growth to new record levels.

Wealth management income rose, 13% to 4.89 billion.

Assets under management growth, 14% to 299 billion.

Led by continuous net new money inflows.

For insurance profit contribution from grayish then rose 39% year on year to 882 million driven by strong underlying insurance business.

Goh Chin Yee: For insurance, profit contribution from Great Eastern rose 39% year-on-year to SGD 882 million, driven by strong underlying insurance business, as well as improved investment performance in its shareholders funds. Moving on to net interest income in slide 11. Our full year net interest income of SGD 9.76 billion was a new high, supported by 5% average asset growth from both customer loans and lower yielding high quality assets, such as government securities and interbank lending. In 2024, we deployed excess liquidity into these high quality assets as part of our ongoing balance sheet management to sustain net interest income in a declining interest rate environment. Net interest margin was down 8 basis points to 2.20% as funding costs rose faster than asset yields over the year, on average for FY 2024 compared to FY 2023.

Well as improve investment for four months in shareholders' funds.

Moving onto net interest income in flight Leben.

Our full year net interest income of $97 6 billion was a new high supported by 5% average asset growth from both customer loans and lower yielding high quality attached such as government securities.

And interbank lending.

In 2010, before we deploy excess liquidity into these high quality assets as part of our ongoing balance sheet management.

Sustained net interest income.

In a declining interest rate environment.

Net interest margin was down eight basis points to 220%.

Funding costs rose faster than affect us over the year.

Yes.

On a rich for FY 'twenty fall compared to FY2023.

We must also partly impacted by the increase in high quality assets, vishal income accretive, but lower yielding compared to our customer loans.

Goh Chin Yee: NIM was also partly impacted by the increase in high quality assets, which are income accretive but lower yielding compared to our customer loans. Looking into 2025, we expect full year NIM to trend lower to around 2.0%. This takes into consideration the lagged effect from Fed rate cuts of a total of 50 basis points in late November, as well as in December of last year. Our house view of 3 rate cuts of up to 75 basis points in 2025. As at end December 2024, NIM sensitivity based on 1 basis point drop in rates across our four major currencies of Singapore dollars, US dollars, Hong Kong dollars, and Malaysian ringgit was about SGD 4 to 5 million for 1 basis point of drop.

Looking into 2025, we expect full year NIM to trend lower to around 2.0%.

This takes into consideration the leggett effect from fed rate cuts.

A total of 50 basis points in late November as well as in December of last year.

And our house view of three rate cuts of up to 75 basis points in 2025.

It's a N December 'twenty 'twenty four NIM sensitivity based on one basis point drop in rates across our four major currencies of Singapore dollars U S dollars, Hong Kong dollars and Malaysian Ringgit was about four to 5 million.

Speaker Change: Two 5 million or one basis point of drop.

Now this is lower than the 7 million a year ago has to be continuously.

Goh Chin Yee: This is lower than SGD 7 million a year ago as we continuously took steps to reduce NIM sensitivity, including growing fixed rate loans and putting on more cash flow hedges. Touching on non-interest income now. Non-interest income rose 22% to SGD 4.72 billion, driven by broad-based growth. Wealth-related and insurance income rose higher. Trading income rose to a record high. For Q4, non-interest income was up 18% year-over-year, but down 30% quarter-over-quarter. As I've highlighted earlier, this was partly impacted by lower insurance income from Great Eastern in Q4. Wealth and trading income were also seasonally lower in Q4. However, we see strong momentum coming back in January. Full-year fee income rose 9% year-over-year, led by higher wealth-related, investment banking, and loan-related fees. Wealth management fees rose 22%.

Speaker Change: Steps to reduce NIM sensitivity, including growing fixed rate loans and putting on more cash flow hedges.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Watching on noninterest income now.

Speaker Change: Noninterest income rose, 32% to $4 72 billion driven by broad based growth.

Speaker Change: <unk> related and insurance income growth higher.

Speaker Change: Trading income rose to a record high.

Speaker Change: For the fourth quarter non interest income was up 18% year on year, but down 30% Q on Q.

Speaker Change: As I've highlighted earlier this was partly impacted by lower insurance income from British sent in the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: Wealth and trading income were also seasonally lower in the fourth quarter. However, we see strong momentum coming back in January.

Speaker Change: Full year fee income rose, 9% year on year.

Speaker Change: By higher wealth related investment banking and loan related fees wealth management fees rose 22%.

Speaker Change: We saw higher fees across all our wealth channels.

Goh Chin Yee: We saw higher fees across all our wealth channels. This was driven by a rise in customer activities from improved investment sentiment. Our higher AUM base of SGD 299 billion also contributed to fee income growth as this higher percentage of AUM was placed in investment products compared to a year ago, contributing to our fee income growth. Now, on average, we have around 60% of our AUM invested in investment products across all our wealth segments. In Q4, it's notable that fee income was actually slightly higher, despite a seasonally quiet Q3 in Q4. Trading income. Our trading income for the full year was at a new high of SGD 1.54 billion. The 53% increase from a year ago was driven by record customer flow treasury income.

Speaker Change: This was driven by a rise in customer activities from improve.

Speaker Change: Investment sentiment.

Speaker Change: Our higher EUM.

Speaker Change: Base of 299 billion also contributed to fee income growth as these higher.

Speaker Change: Satish of AUN was placed in investment products compared to a year ago.

Contributing to our fee income growth now on average we have are around 60% of our num investor investment products across all our segments.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter is notable that our fee income was actually slightly higher despite a seasonally quiet quarter in fourth Q.

Speaker Change: Trading income.

Speaker Change: Trading income for the full year was at a new high of 154 billion Singapore dollars there.

Speaker Change: The 53% increase from a year ago was driven by record customer flow Treasury income.

Speaker Change: We also saw strong growth in non customer flow trading income.

Goh Chin Yee: We also saw strong growth in non-customer flow trading income coming from improved investment performance from both our global markets as well as Great Eastern. The robust growth in customer flow treasury income was contributed by both our consumer and corporate segments. For Q4, trading income declined from the high base that we achieved in Q3, and in part also due to the seasonality that I mentioned earlier. Full-year operating expenses were up 9% as we continue to invest in strategic initiatives and pursue business growth. The increase was led by staff costs, mainly from a combination of higher variable compensation in line with our income growth and business activities growth. We also saw take-home increase and annual salary increments. The consolidation of PT Bank Commonwealth from May 2024 onwards also added to expense growth this year.

Speaker Change: Coming from improved investment performance from both our global markets as well as great Eastern.

Speaker Change: The robust growth in customer flow Treasury income was contributed by both our consumer and corporate segments.

Speaker Change: For the fourth quarter trading income declined from the high base that we achieved in the third quarter and in part also the seasonality that I mentioned earlier.

Speaker Change: Full year operating expenses were up 9% as we continue to invest in strategic initiatives and pursue business growth.

Speaker Change: The increase was led by staff costs, mainly from a combination of higher variable compensation in line with our income growth and business activity schools.

Speaker Change: We also saw us take our increase and annual salary increments.

Speaker Change: The consolidation of PT Bank Commonwealth from May onwards, sorry, if I may 'twenty 'twenty four onwards also added to expense growth this year.

Speaker Change: Cost to income ratio for FY 'twenty fall was still maintain at below 40%.

Goh Chin Yee: Cost-to-income ratio for FY 2024 was still maintained at below 40%. Our loan portfolio remained healthy, and we are currently not seeing any systemic stress in any particular sectors. NPL ratio was 0.9%, lower than a year ago. Total NPAs as at end December were lower year-on-year at SGD 2.87 billion. In Q4, our new corporate NPA formation was mainly from a downgrade of one Hong Kong CRE account. We did not observe any significant stress in Hong Kong CRE sector, and we remain watchful and are closely monitoring the portfolio for any signs of early indicators of weakness, if any. Our full year 2024 total allowances were SGD 690 million, down 6% year-on-year. Allowances set aside in Q4 was mainly related to the Hong Kong CRE account that I mentioned earlier.

Speaker Change: Our loan portfolio remain healthy and we are currently not seeing any.

Speaker Change: Stress in any particular sector.

Speaker Change: NPL ratio was 0.9% lower than a year ago.

Speaker Change: Total N P H S.

Speaker Change: And December.

Speaker Change: The lower year on year at 2.87 billion.

Speaker Change: In the fourth quarter, our new corporate NPA formation was meaning from a downgrade of one Hong Kong CR account.

Speaker Change: We did not observe any significant stress in Hong Kong CR, each sector and we remain watchful and are closely monitoring the portfolio for any signs of early.

Speaker Change: Early indicators of fitness if any.

Speaker Change: Our full year 54 total allowances.

Speaker Change: We're a $690 million down 6% year on year.

Speaker Change: Allowances set aside in the fourth quarter was mainly related to the Hong Kong CRE accounts that I mentioned earlier.

Speaker Change: Total credit cost for the full year were 19 basis points lower than the credit cost guidance of 50 basis points.

Goh Chin Yee: Total credit costs for the full year were 19 basis points, lower than the credit cost guidance of 20 BM. Now turning to NPA coverage. Our group's NPA coverage ratio was higher at 159% compared to a year ago. As we can see, NPL has been declining, and we have been progressively building up our allowances, resulting in NPA coverage exceeding 150%. Turning to loans. Loan portfolio continued to be well-diversified across geographies and industries. Group loans grew 8% year-on-year to SGD 319 billion, driven by broad-based growth across geographies and industries. We saw increases in housing loans as well as trade and non-trade loans. Looking at the chart on loans by industry, I want to point out that we saw notable increase in loans to transport, storage, and communication sector.

Speaker Change: Now turning onto NPA coverage, our group's NPA coverage ratio was higher at 159.

Speaker Change: And compared to a year ago as we can see NPL has been declining and we have been progressively building up our our allowances resulting in.

Speaker Change: NPA coverage of our <unk> hundred 50%.

Speaker Change: Does he onto loans.

Speaker Change: Loan portfolio continues to be well diversified across geographies and industries.

Speaker Change: Group loans group.

Speaker Change: 8% year on year to 309.

Speaker Change: Didn't billion driven by broad based growth across geographies and industries, we serve.

Speaker Change: Saw increases in housing loans, as well as trade and non trade loans.

Speaker Change: Looking at the chart our loans by industry.

Speaker Change: Want to point out that we.

Speaker Change: We saw a notable increase in launch to transport.

Speaker Change: Storage and communications sector. This is in line with our group's strategic focus to capture opportunities in the new economy sectors as well as high growth industry.

Goh Chin Yee: This is in line with our group's strategic focus to capture opportunities in the new economy sectors as well as high-growth industries. Another of our fastest-growing segments is our sustainable financing loans portfolio, which expanded 31% to SGD 50 billion. This portfolio now made up 16% of our group loans. Turning to deposits. Now, our group's strong and stable funding position was supported by customer deposits, which represented about 80% of our funding base. Customer deposits was 7% higher at SGD 391 billion from both CASA and fixed deposit growth. Importantly, the increase in CASA was from both corporate operating accounts as well as consumers' savings accounts.

Speaker Change: Another of our fastest growing segment is our sustainable financing loans portfolio, we should expand that 31% to $50 billion.

Speaker Change: His portfolio now makes up <unk>.

Speaker Change: 16% of all of our loans.

Speaker Change: Turning onto deposits now our group shrunk stable strong and stable funding position was supported by customer deposits, which represented about 50% of our funding base.

Speaker Change: Customer deposits was 7% higher at 391 billion from both.

Speaker Change: Casa and fixed deposit growth.

Speaker Change: Importantly, the increase in Casa was from both corporate operating accounts as well as consumers savings accounts.

This reflected the results of our efforts to grow this low lower costs and sticky deposits as part of our proactive balance sheet management to manage funding costs and defend our net interest margin.

Goh Chin Yee: This reflected the results of our efforts to grow these lower cost and sticky deposits as part of our proactive balance sheet management to manage funding costs and defend our net interest margin. CASA ratio of 48.8% was higher from the previous quarter, as well as from a year ago. Our group's strong capital position is reflected in our transitionary CET1 ratio of 17.1%. Slightly lower than 17.2% in the last quarter. CET1 ratio would be 15.3% on a fully loaded phase-in basis. After paying the proposed final and special dividend for FY 2024, pro forma CET1 ratio will be at 14.3%. That's closer to our target CET1 ratio of 14%. My final slide is on dividends. Basically, sets out what I shared earlier.

Speaker Change: Casa ratio of 48.8.

Speaker Change: 8% was higher from the previous quarter as well as from a year ago.

Speaker Change: Our strong capital position.

Speaker Change: Reef is reflected in our transition Murray CET, one ratio of 17, 1%.

Speaker Change: Ah, but slightly lower than 17, 2% in the last quarter.

Speaker Change: CET one ratio would be 15, 3% on a fully phased in basis.

After paying the proposed final and special dividend for FY 'twenty for pro forma CET, one ratio will be at 14, 3% that's closer to our target CET one ratio of 40%.

Speaker Change: My final slide is on dividend base.

Speaker Change: Basically sets out what I've shared earlier now just to recap.

Goh Chin Yee: Now just to recap, 60% dividend payout for FY 2024 and a repeat of 60% dividend payout for FY 2025. The balance in the region of around SGD 1 billion will be returned to shareholders via share buybacks. All in this translates to SGD 2.5 billion capital return plan. That's on top of the 50% target ordinary dividend payout for the coming 2 years. With that, I thank you very much for your attention today, and I will now hand the floor over to Helen. Helen, please.

Speaker Change: 60% dividend payout fall as.

Speaker Change: FY 'twenty fall and a repeat of 60% dividend payout for FY 'twenty five the balance in the region.

Speaker Change: Around $1 billion will be returned to shareholders via share buybacks.

Speaker Change: And all this translates to 245 billion capital return plan and that's on top of the 50% target ordinary dividend payout.

Speaker Change: For the coming two years.

Speaker Change: With that I. Thank you very much for your attention today and I will now hand, the floor over to Helen.

Helen: Yeah. Thank you, Jamie and good morning to everyone again.

Helen Wong: Yeah. Thank you, Goh Chin Yee, and good morning to everyone again. It's always good to see all of you here. I have a few slides to share, but I do want to spend a bit more time maybe on this first one. We talk about record profit for 2024, two years in a row. I just want to dive a bit more into what bring us to where we are today. Allow me to spend a bit more time, as I said, on this slide. A lot of you would remember, we refresh our corporate strategy back in 2022, and then we talked about different growth pillars and how we actually managed to continue to grow it.

Helen: It's always good to see all of you here I have a fuse slides to share, but I do want to spend a bit more time, maybe on this first one I would talk about a record profit.

Helen: For 2020 for three years in a row, but I just want to dive a bit more into work bring us to where we are today. So so allow me to spend a bit more time as I said on this line.

Helen: A lot of you would remember we refresh our corporate strategy back in trying to gauge when you too.

Helen: And then we talked about different growth with us and how we actually manage to.

Helen: Due to grow it will also allows all shelf and HHS.

Helen Wong: We also announced what sort of initiatives will help us to improve our revenues and what sort of different business that we are investing in. I like to recap that a little bit. I think you would remember when we talked about the corporate strategy. We're talking about four growth pillars, which is the Greater China, ASEAN investment and trade growth, which is also about the same pillar about the wealth growth, in particular in Asia, ASEAN, and also the wealth, cross-border growth in wealth. We talked about new economies and fast growth industry. That's the third pillar.

Helen: It will help us to improve our revenues and what sort of different business that we're investing in so what I'd like to recap a little bit I assume you remember when we talk about all of the corporate strategy. We're talking about our four growth pillars, which is M D equipped to China ASEAN.

Helen: <unk> investment in trade growth O, which is also it bothers you have been up about the wealth growth in particular in Asia, a fan and also the world.

Helen: On the cross border growth in wealth.

Helen: We talked about a linear because all means and fast growth industry baskets up to learn that when we talk about sustainability.

Helen Wong: We talk about sustainability as of course something that is non-negotiable but also a growth pillar for us, because of our focus on helping our customer to transition and we continue to build our sustainable finance book. A lot has been said on that. Indeed, in 2023 we announced what does all this translate into. We're talking about incremental revenues of SGD 3 billion from 2023 to 2025. We have reported on that number. We did say that the first year, one-sixth of it, we made SGD 500 million, and then the second year is one half of it. The target was SGD 1 billion. By the September results, I think I mentioned that we are already close to the target.

Helen: Of course, sometimes that is non negotiable, but also a growth pillar for us because of our focus on helping our customer to transition and we continue to build our sustainable finance book. So a lot has been set on that and indeed in 2023, we announced with US Oh. This translate in so we're talking about.

Helen: Incremental revenues of tripling, our Singapore dollars of I'm trying to show on this journey to 'twenty to 'twenty five.

Helen: We have reported on that number so we did say that the first yeah. One six of that we make 500 million in the second year is one half of that sort of target was 1 billion.

Helen: By the September results I think I've mentioned that we already closed two auto target. So just want to say that after two years together are we a bit closer to $2 billion. So hopefully if we continue with them. So.

Helen Wong: Just want to say that 2 years together we are a bit closer to SGD 2 billion. Hopefully if we continue with this, all this translate to the profits growth. How do we translate it? It very much depends on what we call the enablers, which is managing our capital, put capital where we need it, managing our risk. You can see the quality of our book, how NPL has also come down. It is all about one group as well. I think I've talked about it so much that some of my colleagues said, "Helen, we all know. We all know." We are doing it. It is because of this strategy that we're able to pull our act together.

Helen: These translate to the profit growth.

Helen: But how to Retrans since it is very much depends on what we call. The enablers of which is managing our capital could come through in the way we needed managing our risk.

Helen: You can see the quality of our book how M. P. L has also come down and then it is all about water group as well I think I've talked about this so much but some of my colleagues at Helen We all know we all know and we are doing it so that's where it.

Helen: It is because of this strategy that we're able to put out extra <unk> and indeed over the last two years plus we talk a lot about our innovative market gross products and don't want to we kept them here, but in good tissue through acquisition at this is something very important.

Helen Wong: Indeed, over the last two years plus, we talked a lot about innovative market first products. Don't want to recap them here, but indeed, digital acquisition. This is something very important for the CFS business, cross-border regional premier initiatives. These are all progressing well. We talked about cross-border flow, right, of investment and trade. Indeed, we are supporting a lot of the Chinese commercial banking customers expanding to ASEAN. We have expanded our Greater China non-bank FI portfolio as well, resulting in revenue exceeding our targets in that regard to that extent. We also see good progress in targeting what we call new economy and also fast growing industry.

Helen: For the CFS business across both our original Premier initiate tests. These are all progressing well.

About our cross border flow rate of investment and trade are indeed, we are supporting a lot of the Chinese commercial banking customers expanding into often and we have expanded our go to China, a long time by our portfolio as well, resulting in revenue exiting.

Helen: Our targets are in that $3 billion to that extent.

Helen: We also see good progress in targeting what we call new economy, and also a fast growing industry. So I want to highlight that we've been capturing our electric vehicles are mainly in the battery industry and also of course, you know that there's a lot of G&A in Indonesia, which is a big manufacturer in batch.

Helen Wong: I want to highlight that we've been capturing electric vehicles mainly in the battery industry. Also, of course, you know that there's a lot of opportunity in Indonesia, which is a big manufacturer in that. That's why we're talking about the value chain along this and also about data infrastructure. We are constantly looking for new opportunities. I think a big thing that we're looking at the moment is Singapore-Johor special economic zone. Actually we started even before the final agreement was signed in January. We started more than a year ago of putting together a committee looking at what sort of customer we can help.

Helen: And that's why we're talking about the value chain along this.

Helen: And also about data infrastructure.

Helen: We are constantly looking for new opportunities I think a big thing that we're looking at the moment is suffering pocho hall, especially economic zone and you restart it even before the final agreement was signed in January. So we saw more than a year ago are putting together a committee are looking at a watch.

Helen: All of customer, we can help and I want to say that we have dedicated teams to hub in particular SME customers are crossing a ball in Malaysia, providing a bunch free services to help them start and grow that business as well as connect them with suitable partners in both sides.

Helen Wong: I want to say that we have dedicated teams to help in particular SME customers across Singapore and Malaysia, providing advisory services to help them start and grow their business as well as connect them with suitable partners in both sides. I just want to mention this in 2024 alone, we have helped about 260 mid-sized enterprises from the region to start in Malaysia. Setting up in Malaysia and helping them to set up account and look at how they are going to expand. These cover the services sector, construction, manufacturing, wholesale and retail, et cetera, et cetera. For this sector in particular, we think we can continue to grow something like 20% in 2025.

Helen: Just wanted to mention this in 'twenty 'twenty four alone we have I have about 260 mid size enterprise from the region Dew starch, a malaysia setting up in Malaysia, and helping them to set up a come and looked at our holiday are going to expand.

Helen: And just a couple of the shopping center sector construction manufacturing wholesale and retail and et cetera et cetera. So fortyish sector. In particular, we think we can continue to grow something like 20% in trying to 25. So just to illustrate how the couple of stretch you want.

Helen Wong: Just to illustrate how the corporate strategy work supported when we are working together as one group. The collaboration has allowed us also to look at how, as we said, products and new business, more customers to be onboarded. Indeed, together with that, as we said, we work together, we know where to put resources in. Indeed we did look at 2 investments in 2024, right? You will recall we completed acquisition of PT Bank Commonwealth in Indonesia. We made our promise and our target. We finished the acquisition since it was announced in November 2023. We finished the acquisition in May, and then in 4 months' time, we merged the whole bank into OCBC Indonesia.

Helen: So when we are working together as one group. The collaboration has allow US also to look at how actually sat products and new business are more customers to be on boarded but indeed together with that as you say, we worked together with nowhere to put resources in.

Helen: We did look at through investments in China, and Chinese alright.

Helen: You will recall, we company said our acquisition of PT Bank Commonwealth in Indonesia, and we make all our promise and I'll talk Ed. We are finished the acquisition sensible announced in November 'twenty. Three we finished the acquisition in May and then even four months time the much the whole.

Helen: Bank into a into Oh, CPC, Indonesia, I have to say, we actually have a target of our integrated expenses and a wet lab, where we're picking up the business was lossmaking housing supply our understanding but we did reduce immediately that amount.

Helen Wong: I have to say, we actually have a target of integrated expenses and whether we will take in. The business was loss-making, I think is public understanding. We did reduce immediately that amount and I think we are doing good integrating the people and the customers into OCBC Indonesia. The other investment I must mention has to be Great Eastern. I think we talked about it so much in the past six to nine months. This is a major step for us to strengthen our wealth management franchise, right? We're talking about GE, and I will speak, there was another slide that I will talk about it a bit later on.

Helen: And I think we are doing good integrating the people and the customers into Ocb's Indonesia.

Helen: The investments I must mention that has to be done I think we had talked to accomplish so much in the past six to nine months, but this is a major step for us to strengthen our wealth management franchise right.

Helen: Talking about G and I respond Oh that was another slide that I'll talk about a bit later on but indeed I want to recap up without Auteurs established strategy and also in other investment office there has to be in the bank in Singapore, where we talk about are increasing and we're hiring.

Helen Wong: I want to recap that without all this, without a strategy and also another investment obviously has to be in the Bank of Singapore, where we talk about increasing and we're hiring quite a large number of relationship managers over the last 18 months. If you're interested, Jason can cover that a bit more. All these results, as we said, in banking operations are achieving record profit, right? Wealth management incomes deliver double digit growth. Profit contribution from Great Eastern was also higher as Chin Goh has covered that earlier on. Our loan book also continue to grow.

Helen: Quite a large number of our relationship managers over the last 18 months and if you're interested Jason kind of a couple of down a bit more.

Helen: And our August results as we said in banking operations achieving record profit right.

Helen: Wealth management income does deliver double digit growth and then a profit contribution from core Eastern was also higher as a junior has covered that earlier on.

<unk> also continued to grow.

Helen: And indeed for wealth management, we grew double digits with net new money not your money fresh funds inflow for the year at about $21 billion.

Helen Wong: Indeed, for wealth management AUM, we grew double digits with net new money, fresh funds inflow for the year at about SGD 21 billion. Which is, I think, quite a handsome number. I quite like it. Asset quality, we mentioned, remains healthy. NPL ratio has been trending down the last two years. It is now at the end of the year, 0.9%. Chin Goh mentioned, we have one case on CLE in Hong Kong, which is a mid-cap name. One of our old customer. But in a way, for the last 18 months or so, we have been very vigilant on the mid-tier corporate on our Hong Kong CLE exposure, and we have been bringing it down.

Helen: Which is I think quite a handsome number I I quite liked it.

Helen: Our quality, we mentioned remains housing MPR ratio has been trending down the last few years. It just now at AR at the end of year. It is up one 9% and Jimmy mentioned, we have one case on CRE in Hong Kong, which is a mid cap name.

Jimmy: One of our customer but in the range for the last 18 months or so we have been.

Jimmy: Been very vigilant on a midyear a culprit on our Hong Kong shallow exposure until we have been bringing it down so today more than two thirds of Hong Kong E. O. The CRE loan goal is too large corporates all the names that you would know very well and I thought.

Helen Wong: Today more than two-thirds of Hong Kong CLE, the CLE loan book is to large corporates, the names that you would know very well and that we're very comfortable with. And on the whole portfolio, more than about two-thirds is fully secure with LTV still at around 15% and below. We have also built in the comfortable level of NPL coverage as well, as you actually see in our results. For Hong Kong, there are still growth opportunities, but I do understand the challenge in the CLE sector, which I just mentioned. We've been trying to help our clients to deleverage over the last 18 months or so. I think with the resilience performance, that is why we do talk about. We have a comprehensive plan for our capital.

Jimmy: We're very comfortable with.

Jimmy: And on the whole portfolio, a lot and I'm about to folks is a fully secure without television still at around 15% and below. So we have also built in the comfortable level of NPL coverage as well as you actually see in our results. So.

Jimmy: For Hong Kong, they are still growing opportunity is but I do understand the charter you can see how each sector, which I just mentioned weapon trying to help our clients to deleverage over the last 18 months or so.

Jimmy: I think there was a recent into performance that is why we do talk about Oh, we have a comprehensive plan for capital and then dispose side by side with any growth and lessons etcetera that would come up with this new two year capital return plan them.

Helen Wong: I mean, this goes side by side with any growth, any lessons, et cetera. We come out with this new two-year capital returns plan to increase shareholders' returns. I don't need to go into the details. Chin Goh has mentioned all of this, and it is in our results announcement. If we turn to the next slide, this is a simple one. A lot of people ask me why GE, why your banking operations is doing well. You have corporate strategy. Indeed, it is important to see that we have always talked about a balanced portfolio with three important pillars. We do want to continue to deliver a well-balanced earnings growth across our franchise. Double digit earnings growth, right?

Speaker Change: To increase shareholders' return so I don't need to go into the details of junior has mentioned the office and it is in our results announcement.

Jimmy: So if we turn to the next slide.

Jimmy: This is a simple one a lot of people ask me why Gee why are your banking operation is doing well you have copper strategy, but in theory. It is important to see that we have always talked about a balanced portfolio with three important pillars. So we do want to continue to deliver.

Jimmy: Well balanced earnings growth across our franchise. So a double digit earnings growth demonstrates that saw this drove income generating capabilities.

Helen Wong: Demonstrated solid structural income, generating capabilities and include the incremental revenue we talked about to reflect, the successful execution of our corporate strategy. This is, if you look at all three pillars, and that is what we're talking about, all have illustrated growth. Indeed, with this, I want to turn to the next slide to talk a bit about Great Eastern. There has been, as I said, quite a lot of question raised. Why do you want to increase your earnings or, sorry, your owning or your shareholdings in Great Eastern? Indeed through the offer last year, our shareholding in Great Eastern is now 93.72%. Right? The offer is indeed, I would say, a natural progression, in our strategy.

Jimmy: And could the incremental revenue, we talked about to react on the successful execution of our corporate strategy and this is a if you look at all the three pillars that is what we're talking about all have illustrated our Bronx, So and did so with this I want to turn to the next nine to 12.

Jimmy: What about for instance.

Jimmy:

Jimmy: That has been as I said quite a lot of question raised why do you want to.

Jimmy: Increase your Oh, sorry, you're owning all your shareholdings in Britain, Houston and it gets through the awful lot Yeah, Oh, the shareholding in eastern is now 93, plus seven 2%.

Jimmy: And the answer is yes, indeed, I would say a natural progression.

Jimmy: In our strategy natural progression, because we define where we are we define our free Cola franchise.

Helen Wong: Natural progression, because we define where we are, we define our three pillar franchise. We know a balanced portfolio can help us to overcome, in particular, the uncertainty and the volatility in the market, over the decade. Our ambition, as we openly stated, is for OCBC to become Asia's leading wealth management player, right? Which is part of our, we are leading financial services partner for sustainable Asia. That's our ambition. Indeed, we want to become, it's part of our strategy, to be Asia's leading wealth management player, right? Capturing Asia's rising wealth and strengthening our business franchise is pivotal to this ambition. The offer is the move to integrate GE, right? Great Eastern, closer with our OCBC One Group strategy.

Jimmy: Our balanced portfolio can help us to overcome in particular, the uncertainty and the volatility in the market.

Jimmy: Over the decade, and Oh ambition actually openly stated is to for OCB seem to become Asia's leading a wealth management player right, which is part of our Ah, We're leaving financial services partner for especially about Asia. This ambition, but didn't do it.

Jimmy: One to become as part of our strategy to be Asia. It is wealth management layer right. So capturing Asia is rising wealth and shrinking our business franchise is pivotal to this ambition. So the ulcer issue is the move to integrate G right, it's been closer with our.

Jimmy: OCB she wasn't group strategy.

Jimmy: Imagine if we manage to solicit and if we own 100% of it all we did their search where you have a control and integrate junior to us.

Helen Wong: Imagine if we manage to delist it and if we own 100% of it, or we delist it, we have control and integrate GE to us, then it will help us to realize even more synergy value, right? I give you some data to think about and indeed, we're saying that we have always had GE to have access to our, of course, bancassurance channels. But in a typical bancassurance arrangement, the insurer has, of course, access to the bank's customer. But it's not the other way around, right? If you think about a typical insurance, which is not part of the banking group, they have a bancassurance arrangement, then the insurance has access to the bank's customer, but the bank do not have access to the insurance company's customer.

Jimmy: And then it just will help us to realize even more so since you got it right I'll give you some data so to thinking about and we're saying that we have always have a junior to have access to all of course Banca channels, but in a typical bank.

Jimmy: Kind of arrangement that you sure have of course assess through the bank's customer, but it's not it's not the other way around right. If you think about a typical insurance, which is not part of the banking group they have a banker arrangement.

Jimmy: On the insurance up attached to the bank's customer, but the bank.

Jimmy: Do not have attached to the insurance company's customer.

Jimmy: For us with Great reason, we should actually have that effect, which should give.

Helen Wong: For us, with Great Eastern, we should actually have that access. We should. I give you some data. As I said, in Singapore, 70% of Great Eastern's customer also hold OCBC's products. Okay? Thirty percent of OCBC's customer hold a Great Eastern policy. You see there's still room to grow for OCBC customers to hold more of Great Eastern's products. 70% of Great Eastern's customer hold OCBC products. You think about it. This may not be workable if Great Eastern is not part of us. We still say that there is more room to grow. In particular for Malaysia, where GE is truly the leading and recognized as a local insurer for Malaysia, there would be more opportunities for our Malaysia banking business to work closer with GE in Malaysia and tapping into that.

Jimmy: Give you some data as I sat in Singapore, 70% of great. Eastern this customer also whole OCB CS products.

Jimmy: Okay, I'm, sorry, 3% of OCB as customer whole liquid eastern policy.

Jimmy: There's still room to grow.

Jimmy: Oh, CPG customers to hold more eastern programs, but 70% of current eastern's cut them, a whole or CPC products. If you think about it. This may not be workable. If got Houston is not part of us, but we're still saying that there is more room to grow and in particular for Malaysia with GE.

Jimmy: He is truly truly the leading and recognize as a local in sugar for Malaysia.

Jimmy: That would be more opportunities for our relationship banking business to work closer with J&J in Malaysia and tapping into that.

Jimmy: So the stringent pick the stem cells, one ICP C group Cambria amplify if we tightly integrate for instance with us.

Helen Wong: The strength, indeed, the strength of one OCBC Group can be amplified if we tightly integrate Great Eastern with us through a bigger ownership, and if we manage to delist it. We plan to accelerate our synergies further. You think about if we are so tightly integrated, you can also think about what about resources in capital, right? At the moment, GE, of course, it is a very regulated industry. They do manage capital on a very safe basis. You think about that. Even some of our normal day-to-day work, right? For example, just how we manage our expenses together, how we actually share expertise and building investments together. Sorry. The two of us as a group, right?

Jimmy: Through the ownership and if we manage to the list.

Jimmy: We plan to a salary as soon as you start out and you think about if we're so tightly integrated you can also think about one about our resources and capital right at the moment of course, it's a survivor reclamation industry. They do manage our capital.

Jimmy: On a very safe basis, and you think about that and even some of our normal day to day work right.

Jimmy: And for example, just how we manage our expenses together, how we are actually <unk> XP.

Jimmy: Expertise and are building our investments.

Jimmy: Two cats are looking to get out of Chicago, sorry, the two of us as a group right.

Jimmy: So I think genius position is very powerful in Singapore, and Malaysia, and with our core markets in Singapore, and Malaysia, and we all are St. Paul headquarters thing why do we want to give up G. In that sense right. So if this is a consideration.

Helen Wong: I think GE's position is very powerful in Singapore and Malaysia, and if our core markets include Singapore and Malaysia, and we are a Singapore headquarters bank, why do we want to give up GE in that sense, right? With this in consideration, we also did express when we launched the offer that Great Eastern is ROE accretive to OCBC, and it contributes long-term strategic value to us, right? It has been a subsidiary. It has been part of the group since, I think 1958. It has been a subsidiary for past 20 years and has been a strong earnings contributor to the group. Profit contribution to the group over the last decade hit as high as 20% at certain point.

Jimmy: Also did express when we launched the Alpha that's a great Eastern is Oh, you I could just two O C. B C and it contributes long term strategic value to us right and it has been a subsidiary it has been part of the group since I think 1958, and there hasn't been a subsidiary for past 20 years and perhaps.

Jimmy: Our strong earnings contributed to the group profit contribution to the group over the last decade hit as high as 20% of Southern point and it's important that we say it's important for our risk diversification for balance of earnings are for longer term soon that you value. It is important to your team.

Helen Wong: It's important for risk diversification, for balance of earnings, for longer-term synergy value; it is important to keep GE in the group. That is why we say investing further in GE is one of the natural progression of our corporate strategy. I have another slide to share about our tech capital plan. I think Jimmy talked about it quite a bit, but I want to express the thought that we put through in this. In this, we have three key pillars of business: banking, wealth management, and insurance, right? That will bring us well-balanced earnings and also actually further growth opportunities getting into future.

Jimmy: Junior in the group and that is why we say a four hour investment Mustang, but in June. It is one of the things one of the natural progression of our corporate strategy.

Speaker Change: So I have a lot of Ah I have another slide to share about the capital plan I think Jim you talked about it quite a bit but I want to express our chart that we put through in this and then when you talk about are we have some key pillars of business banking wealth management and <unk>.

Speaker Change: Insurance, right and that would bring us a well balanced earnings and also actually further growth opportunities got them into the future. Then we'll look at sort of investment options. We have like I mentioned last year, we bought a PDP seems we merge it into Indonesia is business and we are not short of other people.

Helen Wong: We look at the investment options we have, right? I mentioned last year we bought PT Bank Commonwealth, we merged it into Indonesia's business. We are not sure of other people showing us other opportunities. Some of you always ask me, "Helen, are there something you are looking at?" I could say that we've turned away some of these approaches based on a few guiding principles, right? We know our core markets, we know our core business, so it has to be something that is related to our corporate strategy. Indeed, if we assess this and the final synergistic value is not high enough or it has very high integration risk, it's not something we're interested in.

Speaker Change: Were showing us other opportunities some of you always ask me Holland or there's something youre looking at and I can say that with turn away. Some of these approaches are based on I always say, we base on a few guiding principle right.

Speaker Change: We know our hallmark has been no alcohol business. So it has to be something that is related to our corporate strategy and engage if we assess this as defined those synergistic value is not high enough.

Speaker Change: It has very high integration with it's not something we're interested in we think about find something it has to generate the value. After you bought it right Evenfall P. D C. But took by other just comfortable but we know that once we put it into into the bank we are getting on more.

Helen Wong: We think about buying something, it has to generate the value after you bought it, right? Even for PT Bank Commonwealth, we did buy at a discount to book, but indeed we know that once we put it into the bank, we are getting on more customers and also more talent as well to our Indonesia business. As we recall then, we're exploring plans to consider with development of the OCBC Center and the skyscrapers as well, right? We took further assessment and we decided that we can delay that planning for a while. No exact timetable where we visited, but as we said, we explored it and we come to a conclusion. We still have a very iconic building here.

Speaker Change: Customers and also mortality as well so our Indonesia business. So I'm actually call. Then we're exploring plans to consider with development of Oh, CPC, sometimes it's tough just as well right.

Speaker Change: We took a photo assessment and we decided that we can delay that planning for awhile.

Speaker Change: That timetable or whether they be served me disappear, but as we say we explored it and we come to a conclusion, we still have a very iconic building here Oh, the outbuildings our presence our use of it is super important to us and we decided that we can delay that for a while.

Helen Wong: Our buildings, our presence, our use of it is still very important to us, and we now decided that we can delay that for a while. With all this in mind, we keep talking about we have a CET1 target of 14%, and that is already good for us to keep a strong credit ratings, have capacity to pursue further growth. If we grow our loan book, if we grow our AUM, of course, growing our loan book, that means we will continue to build our risk-weighted assets, et cetera. I think with all this in mind, we now come to a stage where we say that we have the flexibility to consider deliver enhanced shareholder returns.

Speaker Change: So with all this in mind and we keep talking about we have a CET one target of 14% and that is already called for us to keep a strong credit ratings.

Speaker Change: <unk> capacity to pursue further growth.

Speaker Change: We got a long bull if it grow our AUM of course growing our loan book that means we will continue to build our risk weighted assets et cetera, and I think with all this in mind, we now come to a stage, where we say that we have for the facility to a concert that deliver enhanced shareholder returns. So we come.

Speaker Change: Through a disciplined and are we already seen some feedback. This morning. After we talk about the results and what is it two years, while your peers talk about where he is right. So I call. It isn't it better when we say, we actually telephoto return faster in juniors and we talked about a $2 5 billion right. So if you just.

Helen Wong: We come to this plan, and we already see some feedback this morning after we talk about the results and why is it two years, why your peers talk about three years, right? I thought, isn't it better when we say we actually deliver the return faster in two years? We talked about SGD 2.5 billion, right? If you just divide it by two, we're talking about SGD 1.25 billion a year. Indeed this is a combination, but with a bit more commitment into the special dividend, we are passing the cash back directly to our shareholders. We said that for 2024, it is a final payout of 60%, and this is already higher than the last two years of 53%. I do have a question.

Speaker Change: Divided by two we're talking about $1 5 billion a year.

And indeed, this is a combination but with a bit more commitment into the special dividend. We are passing the cashback directly to our shareholders and a reset that's a fall of 'twenty 'twenty four and just a final pay all up 60%.

Speaker Change: Dishes already higher than the last few years about 53% and I do have a question people say why are you lowering your ordinary dividend and this is not lowering our different tonight, we are paying more dividend.

Helen Wong: People say, "Why are you lowering your ordinary dividend?" A, this is not lowering our dividend, right? We are paying more dividend. We always say our ordinary dividend, we have a target of 50%. We have flexibility to pay more, which was evidenced by last year. When we are paying 60, I think it's good always to say that, this is not that ordinary, right? We are paying 50% ordinarily. Thus we call the 10%, special dividend, right? Because it is, you don't pay a high special dividend every single year. I think we're sticking to, what we promised and what we target, right?

Speaker Change: So we always say our ordinary dividend, we have a target of 50%.

Speaker Change: Yeah, we have flexibility to pay more which was evidenced by last year, but when we are paying 16, I think is always to say that dishes law that ordinary right and we are paying 50% ultimately that's recorded 10% special dividend right.

Speaker Change: Cause it just you don't pay a high special dividend every single year. So I think we're sticking to our what we promise and what we target right I I think our T. You may not want me to say this but if you want to say that it is a 53% ordinary dividend in your own mind as a shareholder and you treat 7% of such a special dividend.

Helen Wong: I think Chin Goh may not want me to say this, but if you want to say that it is a 53% ordinary dividend in your own mind as a shareholder, and you treat 7% as a special dividend, in your own mind, you can treat it that way. It is how we say that we follow our dividend policy, and we're giving out indeed 10%, 50% ordinary dividend. I think this is how I want to actually emphasize that because I see people talking about why you lower your ordinary dividend. It's not like that, right? I think the two-year capital return plan is expected to reduce our CET1 ratio by about 1 percentage point.

Speaker Change: In your own mind, you can treat it that way.

Speaker Change: But it is how we say that we follow our dividend policy and we're giving out in terms of like 50% of our auto news. If it then I think this is how I want to actually I emphasize that because I see already feed people talking about why you lower your dividend.

Speaker Change: Different it's just it's not like that right.

Speaker Change: So I think the junior capital return plan is expected to reduce our CET one ratio by about one percentage point I think the last page of our genius presentation show that right and then it will improve our <unk> by nearly one percentage point as well, yeah, So and indeed, if you say how.

Helen Wong: I think the last page of Chin Goh's presentation show that, right? It will improve ROE by nearly one percentage point as well. Yeah. Indeed, if you say, "Helen, then what is it about after two years?" I would want to say that capital plan is an ongoing thing. It is not like we stop planning on our capital. This is what we said in the past, right? We plan on our capital and as we said, we will continue to look at. We think we have options and this time we decided it's a combination of special dividend and share buyback. Yeah. We will continue to review this as we go along.

Speaker Change: And what wasn't about after two years.

Speaker Change: Would want to say that capital plan is an ongoing thing. It's just not like we stopped planning on our capital and this is what we sat in a pause right. We plan on our capital and our and we will continue to look at and we're saying we have options and this time, we decided it's a combination.

Speaker Change: Our specialty put them at a share buyback yeah, and we will continue to review this as we go along but the key again coming back to us if we cannot grow our business that would not be using up of capital to return to shareholders and ER and the stupid terms would not be going up right. So important if we are.

Helen Wong: The key again, coming back, is if we cannot grow our business, there would not be building up of capital to return to shareholders, and the dividends would not be going up, right? Important is we are committed to continue to grow our business, steer through the uncertainties, which leads me to the very last page in this of my presentation. A lot of people ask me, oh, look, tariffs, and I can address that later on if you're more interested. Indeed, we are seeing all this. We're expecting the Trump administration to talk about tariffs, right? We are talking about potential heightened trade tensions, right? This could impede the global growth and slow down in trade activities. We're talking about interest rate potentially coming down. Is it faster, slower?

Speaker Change: We tend to continue to grow our business stays true uncertainties, which leads me to the very last patient death of my presentation.

Speaker Change: A lot of people ask me outlook tariffs and I can address that later on if youre more interested but we are seeing all this we are expecting the Trump administration's. It's all about parish right and we are talking about potential heightened trade tensions right and dish could in pizza group of growth.

Speaker Change: And so and slowdown in trade activities were talking about interest rate potentially coming down is that faster slower.

Speaker Change: That's a lot of different talks yes, we do talk about abuse of three rate cuts in 2025, and you can say why.

Helen Wong: There's a lot of different talks. Yes, we do talk about a view of 3 rate cuts in 2025. You can say why Helen, are you conservative? If you just look at the overnight numbers, if you want to hear more market views, I can invite Ken to talk a bit more about it. That expectation on the market changed very fast. It changed very fast. We were talking about a very high rate cut, and then it gradually moved down with many people talking about 1 rate cut overnight. The view changed again, right? No matter what, we have to plan with a base, and we have a house rule of 3 rate cuts. We expect loan dust to be around 2%.

Speaker Change: Are you conservative, but if you just looked at the overnight numbers that you're going to hear more market views I can invite Ken to talk a bit more about that.

Speaker Change: That expectation on the market change very fast and does it change rather fast and that we were talking about are apparently high rig count and then gradually move down with many people talking about run rate costs overnight W changed again right. So.

Speaker Change: No matter, what we have to plan with a pace and we have a house you are three rate cuts.

Speaker Change: And I would expect NIM to be around 2% is.

Speaker Change: Is there upside yes, depending on the market situation, yes, depending on equity market performance, yes, depending where customers as we expect will come back and be more active right. Yes. It also depends on how quickly trade impacted and yes.

Helen Wong: Is there upside? Yes, depending on the market situation. Yes, depending on equity market performance. Yes, depending where customers, as we expect, will come back and be more active, right? Yes, it also depends on how global trade is impacted. Yes, it depends on how the China market is recovering, right? Is there always upside? Yes, there is always upside. We want to always follow prudence in our planning, and there must be a base for us to plan our 2025 numbers. We also plan a mid-single digit loan growth. I want to express that the very high 8% loan growth in 2024, we see actually big trade as some of the things that we have done well.

Speaker Change: Yes, it depending on how the China market is revising right. So it's not always upside, yes, there's always upside, but we want to always follow a prudent in our planning and just that must be a base for us Japan or trying to you're trying to find numbers. We also plan a mid single digit loan growth.

Speaker Change: D Hi, I want to express that very high 8% loan growth.

Speaker Change: In China trying to fall, we see actually a fixed trade. Some of are the things that we have done well are we have some big tray abuse coming in in the last quarter and somehow make us eventually for pharma it because I know both compared to the mid single digits, we talked about and so I'm happy about it but.

Helen Wong: We have some big trade deals coming in in the last quarter. Somehow make us eventually perform at 8% loan growth compared to the mid-single digit we talked about. I'm happy about it. Coming into this year, we are focusing on mid-single digit loan growth. Cost-to-income ratio low 40s, and we continue to exercise a strict cost discipline. Credit costs remain at similar levels. We always talk about 20 to 25 basis points. Last year we end up at 19. There's no particular indication of any sector having a very high weakness in our portfolio. Of course, we have to do proactive risk management.

Speaker Change: Coming into this year, we are focusing on a mid single digit loan growth cost to income ratio, a low forty's and we continue to exercise strict cost discipline and credit costs remain at similar levels.

Speaker Change: We've always talked about 20 to 25 basis points last.

Speaker Change: Last year, we end up at 19.

Speaker Change: And there's no particular indication of any sector, having a very high a.

Speaker Change: Weakness in our portfolio, but of course, we have to do proactive risk management.

Speaker Change: As we said I think so many people talk about Hong Kong see all you have to reiterate again, we have stopped test you are trying to reduce the leverage of more than a year ago, Yeah, and and we don't see systemic risk in our book in that sense.

Helen Wong: As we said, I think because so many people talk about Hong Kong CIO, you have to reiterate again. We have started to help our clients to reduce the leverage more than a year ago. We don't see systemic risk in our books in that sense. We're committed to deliver 60% dividend payout ratio for 2025, and coupled with share buybacks. We want to use a 60% dividend rather than an absolute amount, because we hope that as we grow, that hopefully that 60% will be a larger number. With that, I think I'll end my very long expression on our corporate strategy on Great Eastern, on how we look at capital and indeed, how we look into 2025. Thank you.

Speaker Change: We're committed to deliver a 60% dividend payout ratio for 2025.

Speaker Change: Coupled with share buybacks, and we want to use 60% of it done rather than the absolute amount because we hope that as we grow that hopefully that 60% will be a larger number.

Speaker Change: So with that I think a M I have ever known.

Speaker Change: Expressions on our corporate strategy is then on how we look at capital and indeed, how we look into 2025. Thank.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay any questions from maybe the medium firstly has been attacked from Bloomberg.

Pik Wong: Okay. Any questions from maybe the media first? We have, Bernadette from Bloomberg.

Wong Pik Kuen: Okay. Any questions from maybe the media first? We have, Bernadette from Bloomberg.

Speaker Change: I think it's on my presentation I have three questions I would like to ask the first question is the share price reaction seems to suggest that O C. B C might need to do more and then what will you have to say to that and the second question is what are your thoughts on OCB six retail operations on China.

Bernadette: Hi. Thank you so much for your presentation. I have three questions that I would like to ask. The first question is, the share price reaction seems to suggest that OCBC might need to do more. Helen, what would you have to say to that? The second question is, what are your thoughts on OCBC's retail operations in mainland China? Are you considering exiting it following UOB's example? My last question is, as OCBC is among the banks that adopt AI, what are your thoughts on job creation and on the workforce? Thank you.

Wong Pik Kuen: Hi. Thank you so much for your presentation. I have three questions that I would like to ask. The first question is, the share price reaction seems to suggest that OCBC might need to do more. Helen, what would you have to say to that? The second question is, what are your thoughts on OCBC's retail operations in mainland China? Are you considering exiting it following UOB's example? My last question is, as OCBC is among the banks that adopt AI, what are your thoughts on job creation and on the workforce? Thank you.

Speaker Change: Land are you considering exiting it following your beef example.

Speaker Change: And my last question is Oh C. B C's among the banks adopt AI what are your thoughts on job creation and on the walk fast.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: The first one.

Helen Wong: The first one I almost missed it, but you're saying that share buyback, right? Are we going-

Speaker Change: Miss it, but youre, saying that share buyback right.

Speaker Change: Grilling.

Speaker Change: I'll share price reaction.

Bernadette: Share price reaction.

Helen Wong: Share price reaction.

Speaker Change: Sorry repeat your question or.

Helen Wong: A share price reaction. Sorry, Bern, repeat your question or Chin Goh can repeat it.

Speaker Change: <unk> can repeat that.

Speaker Change: One thanks for asking that our share price reaction reflects that more needs to be done.

Pik Wong: What Bernadette is asking that our share price reaction reflects that more needs to be done in addition to our currently announced capital plan, right? Is that what you're saying?

Wong Pik Kuen: What Bernadette is asking that our share price reaction reflects that more needs to be done in addition to our currently announced capital plan, right? Is that what you're saying?

Speaker Change: In addition to our currently announced our capital plan right and wait to see.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Don't comment on share price.

Helen Wong: Okay. I don't comment on share price. Share price is something sensitive, right? I am not in a position, and we should not be talking about things that would impact share price. Share price is something that our investors will decide for us to an extent, right? As I said just earlier, we decided to actually have a two-year plan, which is to return capital faster, right? Will we do something more? Yes, of course. We always say we review. If we can continue to grow the bank, accumulate more capital, what stops us in doing more, right? If you ask me, "Helen, do you have a plan to grow?" Yes, we have a plan to grow. I gave you examples and that we have delivered over the last three years.

Speaker Change: Share price is something insensitive right I am not in a position and we should not be talking about things that would.

Speaker Change: Impact share price share price is something that our investors.

Speaker Change: Besides what I'll say to an extent right. So.

Speaker Change: As I said just earlier.

Speaker Change: Decided to actually have a two year plan, which is to return in a way to return capital faster right.

Speaker Change: We do something more yes of course, we always say the Btu, maybe view and if we can continue to grow the bank more capital what stopped us enjoy more right. So and if you ask me how long do you have a plan to grow yes, we have a plan to grow I gave you examples and that we have to level over the last few years.

Speaker Change: So I think hopefully that addressed your question. The second one is about our men's our retail operations.

Helen Wong: I think hopefully that addressed your question. The second one is about our mainland's retail operations. We don't follow any peers. Whatever they do, we look at what is good for us, what is good for our business, and what is good for our shareholders. We actually have already transformed our mainland retail operations. We completed that already, and we put that more to the higher net worth side. Jason is very much involved in looking in the building the onshore private banking business. We already completed that. We don't need to sell our retail operations in Far East in China. The third thing, I love the topic. AI is so many people talk about it.

Speaker Change: Ah well don't follow any peers.

Speaker Change: Whatever they do we look at so what is good for us and what is good for our business as long as you could find shareholders. We actually will have overdue transform our Manhattan retail operations.

Speaker Change: Completed that already and we push it that more to the higher net restaurant and Ah patients very much involved in looking in a building unless the onshore our private banking business. So we already completed that we don't need to sell our retail operations and best friends in China.

Speaker Change: The third thing I loved the topic.

Helen: I saw so many people talk about it and if you looked at us opinions and so some of my Gatorade and shift the media and we do talk about the use of AI and all of them for the last couple of years a lot of investments actually into technology now when we talk about Helen what have you been doing.

Helen Wong: If you looked at us, I think in some of my gatherings with the media, and we do talk about the use of AI. Over the last couple of years, a lot of our investments actually into technology. Now, when we talk about Helen, what have you been doing in your investments? Yes, a lot is into technology. We have been applying AI internally. I think we are the first one to talk about we have our own GPT system that is used in coding, that is used in a lot of our writings, but it is developed internally by ourselves, right?

Helen: In the investments, yes, a lot of history of technology, and we have been applying AI are internally I think we are the first ones to talk about we have our own G. P. T. A system that is using coding that is used in a lot of our rankings, but it yourself. It is developed internally.

Helen: By ourselves right and actually we track that the use of our Otp sits you P. T allow alcohol judged to be actually tried to percent faster when they first started using it. So so these are all very important but we also said that we mentioned before in particular I think that is just beginning.

Helen Wong: Actually, we track that the use of OCBC GPT allow our coders to be actually 20% faster when they first started using it. These are all very important. We also said that we mentioned before, in particular, I think that is beginning of last year, we are putting SGD 13 million to train our people, to upskill our people. We talked about it much earlier on, and indeed, we have been upskilling our people. It is important. That's why when AI creates some new jobs, when we are still continuing to hire more people, and some of you remember we said we are building up an engineering hub in China, in Shenzhen and Shanghai. We are also starting in Indonesia, building a bigger engineering hub.

Helen: Last year, we are putting 13 million Singapore dollars too.

<unk> changed our people to Upskill, our people would talk about much much earlier on and indeed, we have been upskilling our people and it is important that's why when I create some new jobs.

Helen: When we are still continuing to have high more people. Some of you remember we said we are building up and engineering hub and China.

Helen: In children.

Helen: Shanghai and we are also starting Indonesia Puting uppercut.

So if we are still our people.

Helen Wong: If we upskill our people, we continue to be able to make our processes better. If you later on look at headcount, last year we have not increased headcount. We have increased headcount because we have bought the bank and Indonesia has increased headcount. In that, Jason has increased his headcount in relationship managers, right? With this upskilling our people has been ongoing for quite a long while. In a way, I think AI has been creating more jobs, but you don't need to be an engineer to be able to say, "I'm involved in applying AI to make our processes better." We are involved in using AI in digitalization to reach out to our customer. Early on, I talked about digital acquisition customer become very big for us.

Helen: We continue to pay April to make our processes better.

Helen: So if you'd like to run lookup hectare I'm not sure we have not increased headcount apart, but we have increased headcount because we have bought a bank.

In Indonesia has an increased head count and in depth Jason has increased.

Helen: The increase in satcom in relationship managers right. So with this upskilling. Our people has been ongoing for quite a long while and so in a way I think AI has been creating more jobs, but you don't need to be an engineer to be able to say I'm involved in.

Helen: Apply AI to make our processes better.

Helen: We are involved in using AI and digitalization to reach out to our own customer early on I talk about our digital acquisition of customer become very big for us.

Helen: For example, if you talk to Sunny I think when we started to have facial recognition on our ATM right. This is something new to market. It just applying AI, but that means some of these people have to pay April.

Helen Wong: For example, if you talk to Sunny, I think when we started to have facial recognition on our ATM, right? This is something new to market. It is applying AI, but that means Sunny's people have to be able to work with the engineers to have that launch on our ATM. I want to say AI does create more jobs, but in particular, it is important we make sure that we continue to upskill our people so that they will be able either to be part of it or to use AI and to use AI to apply to how we do our business and how do we improve our product offering.

Helen: What was their engineers to have that launch on our ATM. So I want to say, Hey, I got us create more jobs, but in particular it is important we make sure that we can do to upskill. Our people. So that they will say April either to be part of it or to use AI and to use AI to apply.

Helen: So how we do our business and how do we improve our product offering.

Helen: Uh huh.

Speaker Change: Oh from JP Morgan.

Pik Wong: Harsh, from JPMorgan.

Wong Pik Kuen: Harsh, from JPMorgan.

Helen: Yeah.

Helen: Alright, Thanks Helane.

Harsh: Hi. Thanks, Helen. 3 questions. First, on the CET1 target of 14, by when do you think you will hit that? Is it a 2, 3-year target, or is it more medium-term, 5-year target? I'll have other questions in a bit.

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): Hi. Thanks, Helen. 3 questions. First, on the CET1 target of 14, by when do you think you will hit that? Is it a 2, 3-year target, or is it more medium-term, 5-year target? I'll have other questions in a bit.

Helen: Three questions first on the <unk>.

Helen: Phebe one target of 14.

Randy: By Randy we're paying.

Helen: You will hit that.

Helen: Altria target or is it more medium term five years.

Helen: Good.

Speaker Change: Other question for Brian.

Helen: Oh do you want me to take that.

Helen Wong: Chin, you wanna take that?

Goh Chin Yee: Yes. In fact, already, you know, as I showed earlier, as I mentioned earlier, you know, if we have 60% dividend payout for FY 2024, we are already almost there on a pro forma basis, 14.3% on a fully phased-in basis.

Speaker Change: In fact already you know as I showed earlier.

Speaker Change: Yeah as I mentioned earlier, you know easy have 60% dividend payout for FY 'twenty for B R. E D. Almost there on a pro forma basis is 14, 3% on a fully phased in basis, yeah, but that doesn't take in my phone.

Harsh: Yeah, that doesn't take into account in 2025 you're gonna generate.

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): Yeah, that doesn't take into account in 2025 you're gonna generate.

Speaker Change: Jim.

Speaker Change: That's very helpful.

Goh Chin Yee: Yeah.

Harsh: A lot of profits, right?

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): A lot of profits, right?

Speaker Change: That pro forma number is kind of double counting the deductions. So let's say if we have to on a year end basis at 14 person number is there a timeline to it or does it.

Goh Chin Yee: Yeah, of course.

Harsh: That pro forma number is kind of double counting the deductions. Let's say if we have to, on a year-end basis, hit 14% number, is there a timeline to it, or is it a fluid number and just an indication?

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): That pro forma number is kind of double counting the deductions. Let's say if we have to, on a year-end basis, hit 14% number, is there a timeline to it, or is it a fluid number and just an indication?

Speaker Change: Number and just an indication in our comprehensive plan that I mentioned earlier, we do have a forecast out a three year, we felt like the tree yoga linked claim that we have.

Goh Chin Yee: Indeed, there is in our comprehensive capital plan that I mentioned earlier. We do have forecast out for three year. I always talk about the three-year rolling plan that we have, you know, which is used for our capital planning. Over the next two years, as we roll out and return capital to this SGD 2.5 billion, we do see CET1 moving towards the 14% target in 2026. Yeah.

Speaker Change: Don't wish a useful capital planning and ER over the next.

Speaker Change: Two years.

Speaker Change: B, all and return capital to be $2 5 billion B to C. S E T. One moving towards the 14% target.

In 2006.

Speaker Change: Yeah right.

Speaker Change: Alright, because that would suggest.

Harsh: Right. Because that would suggest significantly higher ability, unless you grow much faster, organically or inorganically, or you end up doing much faster buyback or increase payout. That's the reason why I'm trying to understand the time.

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): Right. Because that would suggest significantly higher ability, unless you grow much faster, organically or inorganically, or you end up doing much faster buyback or increase payout. That's the reason why I'm trying to understand the time.

Speaker Change: Secondly, higher ability unless you grow much faster organically with inorganic can be or you end up doing much faster by bar.

Speaker Change: Our increased payout, but that's the reason why I'm trying to understand.

Speaker Change: We.

Speaker Change: Do have a good strategy as Helen has highlighted you know and are based on the growth strategy. We do have no forecast in a cup unique growth as well, which will use up the capital and we have also some investment options out there.

Goh Chin Yee: Understand.

Harsh: timeframe.

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): timeframe.

Goh Chin Yee: Yes. We do have growth strategy, as Helen has highlighted, you know. Based on the growth strategy, we do have, you know, forecast in our WA growth as well, which will use up, you know, the capital. We have also some investment options that we are looking at. All this has been taken into consideration.

Speaker Change: So all these are some factors to.

Speaker Change: Consideration.

Speaker Change: Right because you were in the mid single digit loan growth doesn't or are the blood draw. It doesn't get you to 14.

Harsh: Right. Because even a mid-single digit loan growth or RWA growth doesn't get you to 14 by 2026 at this pace. The second question is on margins. The guidance of about 2 sounds conservative given your Q4 NIM of 2.15. Is it fair to say it's super conservative guidance and the likelihood is going to be a bit higher? Or how do we think about the range around the 2% NIM guidance?

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): Right. Because even a mid-single digit loan growth or RWA growth doesn't get you to 14 by 2026 at this pace. The second question is on margins. The guidance of about 2 sounds conservative given your Q4 NIM of 2.15. Is it fair to say it's super conservative guidance and the likelihood is going to be a bit higher? Or how do we think about the range around the 2% NIM guidance?

Speaker Change: Thanks.

Speaker Change: So.

Speaker Change: The second question is on.

Speaker Change: Margins the guidance of about two sounds kind of way to given your fork you enable theme.

Speaker Change: Is it fair to say, it's a superfan dividend guidance and the likelihood is going to be a bit higher.

Speaker Change: Or how do we think about the range around the 2% NIM guidance. Yes. These OS releases question that Helen has addressed even before you honest right B two thing for consideration house view of tree recon, so up to 75 basis points and yeah quite a lot.

Goh Chin Yee: Yes. This also is a question that Helen has addressed even before you asked, right? We do take into consideration the house view of three rate cuts of up to 75 basis points. There are quite a lot of uncertainties relating to the rate cuts prospects, you know. As we can see, initially, market was pricing in just one rate cut. After last night's news, it's like another, you know, probably 2.5 rate cuts. There are just so many of these uncertainties. We plan on the basis of more prudence in taking into consideration a house view of three rate cuts. We will look at revising that, probably in March.

Speaker Change: Uncertainties relating to the rate cuts are prospects you know as you can see initially Marcellus pricing in just one rate cut and after last Night's news is like another you know probably two and a half rate cut. So there are just so many of these uncertainties.

Speaker Change: We plan on the basis of a more prudent in taking into consideration in our house view of three rate cuts and we go look at revising that are probably in March F.

Speaker Change: F O M sheets of seabed a direction.

Harsh: Right.

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): Right.

Goh Chin Yee: with the next FOMC to see where the direction is. I recall also, you know, Helen mentioned few factors that could contribute to the potential upside in that.

Speaker Change: And I recall, those so you know Uh huh.

Speaker Change: It hasn't been mentioned few factors that could contribute to the potential upside from that.

Speaker Change: So the way to think about the sensitivities as you said 45 minutes per basis point 75 into let's say a four to five or about 300 million is the kind of excess in case, you do not get let's say read that as a potential upside for the guidance is that how we should think about the range.

Harsh: The way to think about the sensitivity is, as you said, SGD 4 to 5 million per basis point. Seventy-five into, let's say, 4 to 5, about SGD 300 million, is the kind of excess. In case we do not get, let's say, rate cut, that is the potential upside with the guidance. Is that how we should think about the range?

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): The way to think about the sensitivity is, as you said, SGD 4 to 5 million per basis point. Seventy-five into, let's say, 4 to 5, about SGD 300 million, is the kind of excess. In case we do not get, let's say, rate cut, that is the potential upside with the guidance. Is that how we should think about the range?

Speaker Change: Yeah, you can look at use of sensitivity to start off with Jack what happened to them.

Goh Chin Yee: Yeah. You can look at NIM sensitivity to sort of project what happened to the rate cuts, you know, and impact in terms of,

Speaker Change: You know an impact.

Speaker Change: Yeah, I want to add one more point is that because it's not a direct translation into your own no margin or your and I am right because it depends on the competitiveness of the market.

Helen Wong: Yeah, I want to add one more point is that, rate cut is not a direct translation into your loan margin or your NIM, right? Because, it depends on, the competitiveness of the market and whether how much you need to actually pass on to your customer.

Speaker Change: And and whether how much your niche of actually pass along to your customer.

Speaker Change: And then the final question is on Boston income ratio again, low Forty's seems a bit high is it flowing through from Mckinsey.

Harsh: Yeah. The final question is on cost income ratio. Again, low forty seems a bit high. Is it flowing through from a conservative NIM expectation? Or do you expect a significant, yet another year of reasonably high top-line growth and operating costs? Thank you.

[Executive Director and Equity Analyst] (JPMorgan): Yeah. The final question is on cost income ratio. Again, low forty seems a bit high. Is it flowing through from a conservative NIM expectation? Or do you expect a significant, yet another year of reasonably high top-line growth and operating costs? Thank you.

Speaker Change: My expectation or do you.

Speaker Change: Expect a significant yet another year of a reasonably high bar.

Speaker Change: Growth in operating costs.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: We continue to invest I talk about investment so.

Helen Wong: We continue to invest. I talk about investment. What we call BAU expenses, we're controlling very well in that sense. I think low 40 is a good number. We always talk about 40% to 45%. You think about it because of the corporate strategy, because of a high interest environment, that substantially bring down it to below 40. We say that is uncertainty. Of course, we said we have something to plan on, right? To talk about loan growth, to talk about expenses, to talk about the rate cuts, et cetera. We come up with this guidance. Would that be better? Yes.

Speaker Change: What we call.

Speaker Change: <unk> expenses when country very well in that sense, but I think low forty's is a good number we always talked about 40% to 45% do you think about it because of the Copa strategy because of our high interest environment.

Speaker Change: That's substantially bring down and get to below 40, and we say that is the uncertainty of course, we thought we have something to play alone right to talk about loan growth to talk about expenses to talk about the rate cuts et cetera.

Speaker Change: Come up with this with this guidance.

Speaker Change: Yes, if we do grow our income better if you say that interest rates have a positive impact on our revenues and if our wealth management and growing faster than what we planned wherever it is obviously playing a double digit growth yes.

Helen Wong: If we do grow our income better, if we say that interest rate have a positive impact on our revenues, and if our wealth management growing faster than what we plan, we're already obviously planning double-digit growth, then yes, potentially the income higher, then the CR will be lower. But this is where we are in the beginning of the year, where we start off to plan our numbers. These are the guidance we are putting out at this point of time.

Speaker Change: Yes, potentially the income higher than the LCR would be lower but this is why we are in the beginning of the year, where we start off to plan. Our numbers. So these are the guidance, we're putting out at this point of time.

Speaker Change: Okay mixing so I'll go out from that.

Goh Chin Yee: Okay. Next is Guna from DBS.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: Oh, yes, thanks anyway since your head ends up Catherine management, especially to visit and so every welcome Chris yourself. Another question based on this divisions and its relation to break Easton.

Guna: Hello. Okay. Yes. Thanks. Anyway, thank you, Helen. The capital management, the special dividends are very welcome. Could I just ask another question based on this dividends and relating to Great Eastern? At one point, some of the minority investors in Great Eastern were asking whether you have any plans to pay out OCBC's Great Eastern shares as a dividend in specie. Just wondered whether you would ever consider that. That's one question. Second question is actually on Johor. Do you plan to invest more in Johor? Could you give us a figure if you did? And do you plan on opening more branches or plan for a digital bank in Malaysia? You know, to reach out to more retail and SME customers.

[Analyst] (DBS): Hello. Okay. Yes. Thanks. Anyway, thank you, Helen. The capital management, the special dividends are very welcome. Could I just ask another question based on this dividends and relating to Great Eastern? At one point, some of the minority investors in Great Eastern were asking whether you have any plans to pay out OCBC's Great Eastern shares as a dividend in specie. Just wondered whether you would ever consider that. That's one question. Second question is actually on Johor. Do you plan to invest more in Johor? Could you give us a figure if you did? And do you plan on opening more branches or plan for a digital bank in Malaysia? You know, to reach out to more retail and SME customers.

Speaker Change: At one point some of the minority [laughter] minority investors in in grid, eastern but asking whether you have any plans to pay out the cpc's crazy and shares as it if it didn't in specie. So just wanted to visit you would ever consider that so that's one question second question is actually on an.

Speaker Change: So how do you plan to invest more and show how could you give us a figure that you did and do you plan on opening more branches or plan for digital bank in Malaysia.

Speaker Change: To reach out to more reach in an SME customers and.

Speaker Change: If you could give us some idea of what you plan to do so.

Guna: If you could give us some idea of what you plan to do in terms of percentage or?

[Analyst] (DBS): If you could give us some idea of what you plan to do in terms of percentage or?

Speaker Change: So nothing changed.

Speaker Change: She saw okay very good questions I actually interesting one as well regarding some shareholder I was saying that why don't we just your bill G shares out to OCC shareholders right I think the us was to tissue feel it all out.

Helen Wong: Thank you. Very good questions. Actually, interesting one as well. Regarding some shareholders saying that why don't we distribute GE shares out to OCBC shareholders, right? I think the ask was to distribute it all out. It's an interesting thing to suggest, but and they talk about whether I will table a resolution to do this. I have to say that tabling any resolution on our AGM has to be of interest to our OCBC shareholders and also beneficial to the OCBC group, right? If you think about what does it mean by distributing. I think when you say distributing, it's for free, right? We are not charging anyone for getting the shares.

Speaker Change: And it's an interesting thing to suggest but I mean, they talk about what are our people our resolution to do this.

Speaker Change: I have to say that timberland any resolution.

Speaker Change: Now the AGM has to be of interest to all Otp show does.

Speaker Change: Also beneficial.

Speaker Change: To the old UPC group right and.

Speaker Change: And if you're thinking about what does it mean, what does it mean by distributing.

Speaker Change: I think when you say distributing for free right.

Speaker Change: So we're not charging anyone in getting the shares so if you're distributing all the judicious out do you think about that is it.

Helen Wong: If you're distributing all the GE shares out, you think about it's equal to dividend paying our profits in specie, right? Because it is our asset, and I give you something of value. We sort of you can almost work out, I think it's depending how you actually value GE. We are saying that is above SGD 10 billion. How do we distribute 10 billion of our retained earnings to our shareholders in that sort of magnitude, without any consideration? Meaning we're distributing out for free. In particular, as we look at our capital, how we use our capital, I said so much about why we want GE to be part of us. There's no reason why we don't own it anymore. Yeah. Two points, right?

Speaker Change: It's equal to a dividend thing our purpose in specie right because it is all set and I give you something on Friday.

Speaker Change: MS. Sullivan, you can almost workout attributes depending how you at your rather G. When you're saying that that is above 10 billion in Singapore dollars.

Speaker Change: How how do we distribute 10 blends of our our retained earnings to our shareholders in that sort of magnitude.

Speaker Change: Without without.

Speaker Change: Without any consideration, meaning with tissue, but everything else for free and in particular as we look at our capital how we use our own capital I thought so much about why we want <unk> to be part of US. There's no reason why we don't own it anymore yeah.

Speaker Change: And indeed, if you so two parts right. The first thing is if a tissue pills GE all out we would not be agenda with rusty capturing the profit contribution from GE to us right, which eventually leading to a future dividend streams archrock shareholder and will not be realizing the synergies that we're planning on.

Helen Wong: The first thing is if we distribute GE all out, we would not be capturing the profit contribution from GE to us, right? Which eventually leading to our future dividend streams to our shareholder. We'll not be realizing the synergy that we're planning on. Right? That's one important thing, and we'll substantially reduce the scale of the OCBC Group in that sense as well. That is not beneficial to OCBC, nor is it beneficial to the shareholder. As I said, we focus on how we manage our capital, so that leads to our capital return plan in two years.

Speaker Change: Right. So that's a one quarter thing and will substantially reduce the scale of the old UPC group in that sense as well so that is not beneficial to OCB see nor is it beneficial to the shareholder and as I said, we focus on how we manage our capital so that leads to our capital return plan.

Speaker Change: Two yes, and so.

Helen Wong: The GE, to actually give out GE shares to our shareholder, does not make sense, both in future growth prospects and also in terms of the amount we pay out to our shareholders. Yeah. I think that's GE. The second question is on Johor. Something very dear to my heart. I think a lot of people in particular, we actually have been in Johor for many years. Indeed we have 7 branches in Johor already, out of our Malaysian OCBC Malaysia presence. We can do both, what we call traditional commercial banking, but also we can do.

Speaker Change: You need to actually kick out G. Shasta Shah with the swap makes sense both in our future growth prospects and also in terms of the amount we pay out to our shareholders.

Speaker Change: So I think that's Oh Gee.

Speaker Change: The second question is on draw something very Dear to my to my heart I think not a lot of people and in particular, where we actually have been in short haul for many many many years and then we'll have seven branches or already are out of our relations Oh CPC Malaysia.

Speaker Change: And we can do both or we call it traditional.

Speaker Change: Commercial banking, but also we can do a D a.

Speaker Change: Sorry, I missed to say are we can also do a focusing on bumiputra to do all Oh.

Helen Wong: I meant to say, we can also do focusing on Bumiputra, to do our business Al-Amin, OCBC Al-Amin, right? Sorry. We have a big presence there. Indeed, I earlier said that we started looking in this potential of the special economic zone more than a year ago. We have been seeing interest of our customer base looking at potential in Johor. If you have a chance to talk to our CEO Malaysia in the short time, maybe we can arrange that. You can see that he was talking about and the amount of business we have already starting to build for the last years.

Speaker Change: Oh, I'm, sorry, our business of our business in OCB <unk> right. So I don't have a big presence there and indeed, Oh reassert that we stopped looking in dish a potential off especially economic zone.

Speaker Change: More than a year ago, and we have been seeing interests of our customer base I'm looking at potential in Joe Hall, and if you'll have a chance to talk.

Speaker Change: Talk to you our CEO, Malaysia Ah in southern time, maybe we can arrange that.

Speaker Change: You can see that he was talking about in the amount of business. We have already are starting to be able for the last years and I just think that they're more interest.

Helen Wong: I did say that there is more interest in both, not just on the commercial banking side, but also on the retail side. We are going to focus on the cross-border convenience of our customers when they want to have an account with us and also an account in Johor. We are looking and planning to have a KYC process that can actually help customers open account faster. This is one of the things. All in all, we're putting resources. We have a lot of experience in Johor. We've been there for 100 years, actually. Indeed, we have the presence, and we have the people. I think by putting our acts together, we should be able to do it very well.

Speaker Change: And imposed a lot just on the commercial banking side, but also on the retail side. So we're focused on going to focus on the cost for the convenience of our customers when they want to have an account with US and also an economy. Joe Hall are we are looking and planning you'll have a K y.

Speaker Change: A process that can actually have customers open account faster. So this is one of the things Oh normally protein resources are we have a lot of experience into a home. We think that 400 years actually and then in data we have the presence and we have the people. So I think by putting all extra data are we should.

Speaker Change: Being able to do it very well you talk about whether we will vote on digital Bang Oh see pieces of it do you have a digital banking defense Ah I think somebody you can talk a lot more about Hollywood digitally acquired customers and how much transactions now done displace digitally language. This year I think.

Helen Wong: You talk about whether we will build a digital bank. OCBC already has a digital bank in that sense. I think Sunny can talk a lot more about how we digitally acquire customers, and how much transaction is now done these days digitally. Linus is here. I think, Dylan, you know Linus. We've been so focused on our SME book, how we use digitalization to allow account opening at a very fast speed, and also how we use data analytics and also to have pre-approved loans for some of our SME customers. A lot of digital investments has gone into the business, which is rapidly adopted by our Malaysian colleagues.

Speaker Change: And with what's happened so focused on our people how we use that utilization to to allow account opening on a very fast speed and also how we use that data analytics is also to have a preapproved loans are for some of our SME customers. So oh.

Speaker Change: A lot of our digital investments has gone in to the business, which is absolutely adopted by ambulation colleagues.

Speaker Change: And then if I can.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Sunny Quek: Helen, if I can add in. On the Johor side, I think many of you may be aware, we are also the merchant acquired for the RTS. That means the train between Singapore and Malaysia, and we have exclusive five-year period, and they give us a lot of opportunities to do a lot of acquisition opportunities. Also in line with our one group strategy, right? With the consumer bank and the commercial bank also working together to see how we can jointly acquire customers together, especially serving the needs of the small business owner in the Johor area. We work out a whole slew of activities to help customers in purchasing, say, Singaporean properties in Malaysia and for the Malaysians to open accounts in Singapore and vice versa.

Speaker Change: The draws.

You may be aware, we are also the merchant acquired with Alta yes.

Speaker Change: Between Verdinsgang Boy, Malaysia, and beautiful exclusive period, and they give us law, but you used to do a lot of acquisition opportunities.

Speaker Change: We were fully in line with our one group strategy.

Speaker Change: Consumer banking and the commercial bank, who came together to see how can jointly acquire customers together.

Speaker Change: She said to me something small pieces on the individual.

Speaker Change: Whose beautiful, but it could be used to help customers in achieving such as Singapore.

Speaker Change: In Asia and for the Malaysia open their cultural point I suppose.

Speaker Change: On the digital Bang I seem to be able to do this 90% of our customers trying to find issues transaction.

Sunny Quek: On the digital bank, I think today, as of today, there's 90% of our customers' financial transactions are done digitally as well. I'm sure the corporate side is equally high amount, around there, 98%, right, Linus? I think if you think about a digital bank, that is for somebody who doesn't have a banking license. We have a banking license. We have all the physical branches. If you've got the product suites and all this, we have a lot more product suite, everything inside there. In fact, I always say if you take a look at our digital bank, mobile app, it's like your Apple phone. There are many features inside there that you're not aware. Same thing for our mobile app. There's a lot of features there that you do not know.

Speaker Change: Yes.

Speaker Change: Sure the copper side.

Speaker Change: Equally high amount Oh this idea of a century.

Speaker Change: Lenders. So I think if you think about a digital bank for somebody who doesn't have a banking license the EBIT breakeven basins with Odyssey scope.

Speaker Change: Good branches.

Speaker Change: It's about the product suites, and obviously, we have a lot more everything inside yeah. If I said I always say you can take a look at that with the bank mobile app.

Speaker Change: There are many features things like that.

Speaker Change: Same thing for our mobile App features there that you do not know because all.

Speaker Change: Feature packs will be things like that so I think that is something which is I think we already had one typically and the fact that we have a physical branch do have to be spent in terms of mix you want to talk to somebody preschool Crazy I think that's what it is advantage that we have to come since we really thank you.

Sunny Quek: Because we offer a feature-packed service package inside there. I think that is something which is, I think we already have one technically. The fact that we have a physical branch does help these in terms of needs, when you want to talk to somebody face-to-face. I think that's where there is advantage that we have that comes in readily. Thank you.

Speaker Change: If I can add is really the very last one on this exciting opportunity as our Malaysian bank.

Helen Wong: If I can add really the very last point on this exciting opportunity is our Malaysian bank, as you said, is as old as us in Singapore. It's been part and parcel of us for many, many years. In Malaysia, other than the full banking license on retail, we own the corporate commercial investment banking, et cetera. We also have a 100% owned leasing company in Malaysia, and it is also part and parcel within the one group. There has been a lot of business collaboration of referrals between the commercial bank and this company called Pac Lease. Bank of Singapore also have an entity in Malaysia.

Speaker Change: That is that's O S us in Singapore.

Speaker Change: It's been a part of as part and parcel of us for many many years and in Malaysia other than the full banking license on retail we on corporate commercial investment banking et cetera.

Speaker Change: So we'll have 100% owned leasing company in Malaysia, and I guess also are part and parcel was in the one group. So that has been a lot of our business a collaboration of the fellows became the commercial bank and a discount to your co Packers and financing call also.

Speaker Change: In Entertainment Asia, So in a win in Malaysia, we have a full scale and full capability that.

Helen Wong: In a way, in Malaysia, we have a full scale and full capability, that would be able to work very closely. As we said, we have a team looking at this together, to capture this exciting opportunity.

Speaker Change: That would be able to work Oh very closely and as we said we have a team looking at the Chicago to capture this exciting opportunity.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Nick and then okay excellent thanks, very much and thanks for the opportunity to ask questions can.

Pik Wong: Okay. I'll move, Nick and then Rakesh next. All right? Thanks.

Wong Pik Kuen: Okay. I'll move, Nick and then Rakesh next. All right? Thanks.

Nick: Thanks very much, and thanks for the opportunity to ask a question. Can I just come back to capital? I'm just trying to sort of picture your capital plan, if you like, and everything you've said. We've got effectively an increase in payout ratio to 60%, but there's a layer above 50. At the moment, you're making a high return and risk-weighted asset growth is quite low. You're in a position to distribute that to effectively stop capital retentions. When we go two years out ahead, I accept that you don't know and I don't know what's gonna happen. Is that what you're trying to say to us?

[Analyst]: Thanks very much, and thanks for the opportunity to ask a question. Can I just come back to capital? I'm just trying to sort of picture your capital plan, if you like, and everything you've said. We've got effectively an increase in payout ratio to 60%, but there's a layer above 50. At the moment, you're making a high return and risk-weighted asset growth is quite low. You're in a position to distribute that to effectively stop capital retentions. When we go two years out ahead, I accept that you don't know and I don't know what's gonna happen. Is that what you're trying to say to us?

Speaker Change: Can I just come back to capital and I'm, just trying to sort of picture your capital partner, if you like and everything you've said.

Speaker Change: So we've got effectively an increase in payout ratio to 60%.

The layer above 50.

Speaker Change: You're making a high return on risk weighted asset growth is quite low so.

Speaker Change: <unk> to distribute that to effectively stop capital Retentions.

Speaker Change: When we go two years out of a road I accept but you don't know and I don't know what's going to happen are you sort of are you is that what youre trying to say to US and then we'll keep the 50 as core as it depends what the situations like in 27 28, so as to whether we keep that up.

Nick: Then we'll keep the 50 as core, and it depends what the situation's like in 2027, 2028 as to whether we keep that 10% top up. Then the share buyback I should think of as a distribution of the capital that gets you down to 14%. Just linked to that, if you could just talk a little bit about how you're thinking about share buyback in terms of is it something to support the share price? Is it a way of distributing capital? I mean, just intellectually, how are you sort of conceptualizing the share buyback? Then linked to that, two other questions linked to that. First of all, just could you talk about how you think about the risk-weighted asset density growth of your business going forward?

[Analyst]: Then we'll keep the 50 as core, and it depends what the situation's like in 2027, 2028 as to whether we keep that 10% top up. Then the share buyback I should think of as a distribution of the capital that gets you down to 14%. Just linked to that, if you could just talk a little bit about how you're thinking about share buyback in terms of is it something to support the share price? Is it a way of distributing capital? I mean, just intellectually, how are you sort of conceptualizing the share buyback? Then linked to that, two other questions linked to that. First of all, just could you talk about how you think about the risk-weighted asset density growth of your business going forward?

Speaker Change: A 10% jump up.

Speaker Change: And then the share buyback I should think of as a distribution of the capital that gets you down to 14% and just linked to that if you could just talk a little bit about how you're thinking about share buyback.

Speaker Change: As the visit somebody to support share price is it a way of distribution capital I mean, just intellectually how are you sort of conceptualizing the share buyback.

Speaker Change: <unk> been linked to two other questions linked to that first of all just could you talk about how you think about the risk weighted asset density growth of your business going forward. So how much risk weighted assets you need to generate returns given the you know obviously a lot of your growth areas are less risk weighted asset intense so well.

Nick: How much risk-weighted assets you need to generate returns given that, you know, obviously a lot of your growth areas are less risk-weighted asset intense, so wealth and markets and things like that. Just finally on Great Eastern. I mean, you gave a pretty, a passionate defense as to why you should own all of Great Eastern. If you were to buy out the remaining minorities in Great Eastern, would you have to offer the same share price to the people who accepted your offer last year?

[Analyst]: How much risk-weighted assets you need to generate returns given that, you know, obviously a lot of your growth areas are less risk-weighted asset intense, so wealth and markets and things like that. Just finally on Great Eastern. I mean, you gave a pretty, a passionate defense as to why you should own all of Great Eastern. If you were to buy out the remaining minorities in Great Eastern, would you have to offer the same share price to the people who accepted your offer last year?

Speaker Change: In our markets and things like that.

Speaker Change: And then just finally on great Eastern I mean, you gave a pretty.

Speaker Change: Passionate defense as to why you should own all the great eastern.

Speaker Change: You were to buy out the remaining minority Susan great Eastern would you have to offer the same share price.

Speaker Change: To the people, who except Europe last year.

Speaker Change: Okay. So one at a time our capital plan.

Helen Wong: Okay. One at a time. Capital plan. Would you say we look at our capital and both, returning through special dividend and through share buyback? I think it's not very difficult to just to calculate how much is special dividend and how much is share buyback, right? In a two-year timeframe of a SGD 2.5 billion number. Okay. We love that flexibility. To an extent, if you're saying that, in two years' time, if we continue to grow as we wish, and if we, if because we grow a lot of, as you said, not RWA heavy income, then, we accumulate capital faster, in that sense, right? Can we continue to consider a higher dividend? Yes. Yes. Because this has happened in the last two years.

Speaker Change: Would you say, we look at our capital and both returning through a special dividend and through share buyback.

Speaker Change: I think it was not difficult to adjust to calculate how much of a special dividend and how much is share buyback rate and a two year timeframe after $2 5 billion.

Speaker Change: Lumber, Okay, So we love that flexibility.

Speaker Change: And to an extent, if you're saying that in two years' time, if we continue to grow as we wish and if we if because we grow a lot of as you said not all completely happy income band with accumulating capital faster in that sense right.

And so.

Speaker Change: Can we continue to consider a higher dividend yes.

Speaker Change: Yes, because this has happened in the last few years.

Speaker Change: Since we actually change our dividend policy to target a 50% of our net profit. So that was actually announced a fourth or trying to 'twenty. Two numbers. If you remember right. So 'twenty two 'twenty three we paid 53%, yes, but because this year, we're paying a higher mountain and.

Helen Wong: Since we actually change our dividend policy to a target of 50% of our net profit. That was actually announced for the 2022 numbers, if you remember, right? 2022, 2023, we pay 53%. Yeah. Because this year we're paying a high amount and would we be able to continue to pay a high amount? Yes, we may be able to, but depends on how fast we grow, as you said, and whether some of the investments we make earlier actually bear more fruits than we expected. I can't say that history will tell about the future, but we just have to make sure that we realize the biggest benefit of one group. That's what I say.

Speaker Change: And what we've been able to continue to pay a high amount, yes, we may be able to but it depends on how fast we grow as you said and what are some of the investments we made earlier actually pay them off routes.

Speaker Change: So we expect it so I can say that history will tell about the future.

Speaker Change: We'll just have to make sure that we realize that because benefit of one group.

Speaker Change: That's why I say I spent a bit of time to talk about the three year plan with a lot of actually a heck of a lot. They have pockets at full yeah. So hopefully we'll be able to do so and we're not stopping thinking about strategy and what are the other opportunities going to into the future. Yeah. So when I have more to share I'll definitely to talk about.

Helen Wong: I spent a bit of time to talk about the earlier three-year plan, where we deliver actually ahead of what we have targeted for. Yeah. Hopefully we'll be able to do so. We're not stopping thinking about strategy and what are the other opportunities going into the future. Yeah. When I have more to share, I will definitely talk about it. That is capital plan. Regarding whether we can pay higher dividend, yes, we can, if we think that match our future plan and that we have accumulated more profits than we need. You talk about growth assets. I think it's related to the capital plan.

Speaker Change: That's it.

Speaker Change: So that its capital plan and we are starting to whether we can pay higher dividend. Yes. We we can if we if we think that that my child Fisher plan and that we have accumulated a more profit sometime we need.

Speaker Change: So you talk about growth has that I think is related to the capital plan. So in a way yes. We do have of course, we always have a rolling three year plan on how we grow our out separately.

Helen Wong: In a way, yes, we do have, of course, we always have a rolling three-year plan on how we grow our RWA and whether we have still other ways to rationalize the RWA. I think Basel III plus kicks in. We also work on it. We do know that there's only a short-term benefit to the CET1, right? We take all this into account. Do we want to grow more revenue that is less so RWA base? Yes, and that is why we said wealth is such a big piece that we're focusing on. I think the report card for 2024 for our wealth AUM, and for the revenue growth and also for the net new money coming in, I think we are doing quite well.

So whether we have still other ways to rationalize.

Speaker Change: The hour tabulate and I couldn't pass.

Speaker Change: Bustle III Clos kicks in we also also work on it we do know that there is only a short term a benefit to the to the scene in Q1 right. So if we take all this into account and so we want to grow more rapidly that is less so out of the eight piece.

Speaker Change: Yes, and that is why we said well if you're such a big piece, but we're focusing on and I think that we bought out for 'twenty 'twenty four for our wealth AUM and for the revenue growth and also for the net new money coming in I can we are we are doing quite well I'd, just say oh theyre quite like it so but shouldnt.

Helen Wong: I did say earlier I quite like it, but shouldn't be saying it's open-ended in front of my team in that sense. Yes, this is what we are focusing on. If we do better than we expected, yes, then it will ultimately lead to better capital and then better programs for us to continue to return returns, make better returns to our shareholders. GE, you mentioned that as a defense. I truly don't want to describe it as a defense. I truly just say that I'm passionate about it. It is indeed how GE has contributed to us all these years. In my position, I do know what sort of synergy we can realize going forward.

Speaker Change: Be saying its openings in front of my team is that sense, but yes. This is what we're focusing on so again, if we do better than we expected. Yes, then it will ultimately lead to better capital and then that our programs are for us to continue to return a returns make better returns to our shareholders.

Speaker Change: Oh Gee, you mentioned that as a defense I truly don't want to describe it as a defense I truly is just say that I'm passionate about it it isn't how G has contributed to US all the shares and in my position I do know whats sort of synergy.

Speaker Change: We can realize going forward and he.

Speaker Change: He's not here today, but it's like putting quite kinston on.

Helen Wong: He's not here today, but it's like putting Greg Hingston, you know, under everybody's scrutiny. Greg Hingston is our new CEO of Great Eastern, and he joined in November. Greg has an experience of knowing exactly how to bring the insurance business forward in a banking environment. We already have a lot of discussion on how we can realize better synergy, so I'm quite positive about that as well.

Speaker Change: And and.

Speaker Change: Everybody's scrutiny, but I couldn't hear you said yourself newfield are of a quickie thing and Uh Huh John in November.

Speaker Change: And Glenn has an experience of knowing exactly how to.

Speaker Change: In our insurance business forward in a banking environment.

Speaker Change: We already have a lot of discussion on how we can realize better synergy so I'm quite positive about that as well.

Speaker Change: I'm sorry, Nick I was asking about how do we pay the price oil price with the remaining two dose one sector I cannot I cannot comment on that anything that make sense or whatever you say.

Pik Wong: Yeah. Sorry, Nick was asking about, do we pay the price?

Wong Pik Kuen: Yeah. Sorry, Nick was asking about, do we pay the price?

Helen Wong: Oh.

Pik Wong: The offer price to the remaining to those who are accepted?

Wong Pik Kuen: The offer price to the remaining to those who are accepted?

Helen Wong: I cannot comment on that.

Pik Wong: If we buy up.

Wong Pik Kuen: If we buy up.

Helen Wong: I cannot comment on that. I mean, I cannot comment on that. When we're ready to announce, we can tell you, but I cannot say it now. Huh? Oh, the legality requirement.

Speaker Change: I cannot comment on that when we're ready to announce because to tell you, but I cannot say it now.

Speaker Change:

Speaker Change: Uh huh.

Speaker Change: Oh pardon me Galaxy requirement, you, obviously bought shares of people.

Pik Wong: You obviously bought shares off people at one price last year.

Wong Pik Kuen: You obviously bought shares off people at one price last year.

Speaker Change: So those are the ones merger has closed and then the pod regarding that currently aten is allowing us to continue to buy at the same price that one has closed.

Helen Wong: Oh, no. The last ones which you have closed. Even the part regarding the Companies Ordinance allowing us to continue to buy the same price, that one has closed.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Pik Wong: That's all closed.

Wong Pik Kuen: That's all closed.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Helen Wong: Yeah.

Pik Wong: Okay.

Wong Pik Kuen: Okay.

Speaker Change: Yeah, maybe you move through someone from other media.

Pik Wong: Yeah. Maybe we move to someone from the media, Ching-shek.

Wong Pik Kuen: Yeah. Maybe we move to someone from the media, Ching-shek.

Speaker Change: Alright, thank you.

Speaker Change: Two questions here.

Ching-shek: All right, thank you. Just two questions here. I know OCBC's 1% higher headcount last year. I think building on Bernadette's question, could you provide an update on your investments into tech? OCBC pledged HKD 1.5 billion last year to upgrade tech and facilities by 2026. You also mentioned plans to hire some 300 software engineers in China over the next 3 years. Do you have an update on that? Second question, Helen, just to confirm, you don't see this investment into tech and AI impacting your headcount overall for this year and the next? What about your company's temporary or contract staff? Thanks.

Wong Pik Kuen: All right, thank you. Just two questions here. I know OCBC's 1% higher headcount last year. I think building on Bernadette's question, could you provide an update on your investments into tech? OCBC pledged HKD 1.5 billion last year to upgrade tech and facilities by 2026. You also mentioned plans to hire some 300 software engineers in China over the next 3 years. Do you have an update on that? Second question, Helen, just to confirm, you don't see this investment into tech and AI impacting your headcount overall for this year and the next? What about your company's temporary or contract staff? Thanks.

Speaker Change: These are 1% higher head count last year, and I think Christian can you prevent an update.

Speaker Change: Okay beauty pet swap on $5 billion last year.

Speaker Change: Specific to you spoke to her 36, but you also mentioned plans to hire some 300 software engineers in China over the next three years. So do you have an update on that and also a second question and then just to confirm you didn't see this investment.

Speaker Change: Impacting your head count overall for this year into next what about your company's temporary or contract stuff. Thanks.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: I think what I learned when I was glad that last question come about.

Helen Wong: Thank you. I know why that last question come about. Let me address every point you mentioned, right? The 1% higher headcount is actually based on the taking of people from PBBC. If you really take away that, actually we have a reduction in headcount. The second thing is, we're investing in tech, definitely. You mentioned we announced for Hong Kong, right? We are upgrading our whole system in Hong Kong, and we're hiring more engineers to invest into Hong Kong. But in a way, those engineers does not need to sit in Hong Kong. That's why we talk about hiring more engineers in China.

Speaker Change: But let's remember that every point you mention right, 1% higher head count it's actually based on the particularly many of our people from a P. T V C.

Speaker Change: If you really take away that actually have.

Speaker Change: Section in head count.

Speaker Change: But it just through natural attrition yeah. The second thing is witnessing in fact definitely you mentioned, we announced a Hong Kong right.

Speaker Change: We are upgrading our whole system in Hong Kong, and we are hiring more engineers.

Speaker Change: Engineers.

Speaker Change: To to invest into the Hong Kong, but in it but in a way in a way.

Speaker Change: Our engineers are smartly to sit in Hong Kong, that's why we talk about hiring more engineers in China I think the past one year before 150 in China.

Helen Wong: I think the past 1 year we grow about 150 in China. We started to hire in Indonesia, as we said. Our hub in Malaysia is already quite big. We're quite happy we continue to be able to find the talents and good engineers to join us in that sense. But why are we hiring rather rapidly in tech, but we don't build headcount? Because as we said, we have done pretty well in our processes. When you continue to do well in your processes, you save headcount in operations, right? When you save, you also generate more profitability. Whatever headcount you save, those people can actually put into generating higher profitability as well.

Speaker Change: And we started to high Indonesia, we say yes.

Speaker Change: And I'll hop emulation already quite big So we're quite happy are we continue to be able to find the challenge and good engineers to join us in that sense, but in the wire rehiring, rather rapidly intact, but we don't go head count because as we said we have a we have a.

Speaker Change: Some are pretty well in our processes. So when you continue to do well in your processes you shave had come in operations right and when you say and if you can and you also generally more positivity whatever well that's why I kind of would you say those people can actually put into generating higher possibility as well.

Speaker Change: So I think we have been managing this very much through natural attrition and very importantly, I really want to emphasize that it is an early planning to how we upskill our people so that they can they put in different jobs, so as they grow with the organization.

Helen Wong: I think we have been managing this very much through natural attrition. Very importantly, I really want to emphasize that it's an early plan to how we upskill our people so that they can be put in different jobs as they grow with the organization. Regarding the last one about contract staff, we don't have a very high amount of contract staff or temp staff. Yeah. In a way, as we said, we have not been saying that we need to make anyone leave the job in any plan in particular. We have been managing our headcount, as we say, by putting people into different roles and also through natural attrition.

Speaker Change: Regarding the last one about contract start we don't have a high a very high amount of contracts that all kind of stuff yeah, but in the rain and the way as we said we have not.

Speaker Change: In saying that we need to make anyone leaves a job in any plan in particular, but we have been managing our head count as we say by putting people into different roles and also through natural attrition.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Thank you morning does that.

Pik Wong: Akash from UBS.

Wong Pik Kuen: Akash from UBS.

Akash: Great. Thank you. Morning. This is Akash from UBS. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one I have is just on Hong Kong CRE. I think last year, several briefings, you know, similar briefings, the view that was discussed was that as rates come down, we should expect the worst for Hong Kong CRE to be behind us. Now, obviously as that has not played out, you know, market and investors are a lot more worried about the Hong Kong CRE space, understandably. So I think the disclosures that you shared earlier were pretty helpful. Two-thirds of Hong Kong CRE is to large developers. Two-thirds of the portfolio is secured. I think there is probably more information that, you know, the market would love to have.

[Analyst] (UBS): Great. Thank you. Morning. This is Akash from UBS. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one I have is just on Hong Kong CRE. I think last year, several briefings, you know, similar briefings, the view that was discussed was that as rates come down, we should expect the worst for Hong Kong CRE to be behind us. Now, obviously as that has not played out, you know, market and investors are a lot more worried about the Hong Kong CRE space, understandably. So I think the disclosures that you shared earlier were pretty helpful. Two-thirds of Hong Kong CRE is to large developers. Two-thirds of the portfolio is secured. I think there is probably more information that, you know, the market would love to have.

Speaker Change: Cash from UBS. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one I had was just on Hong Kong CRE.

Speaker Change: I think last year. Several briefings you know some of the briefings. The view that was discussed was that as rates come down you should expect the worst for Hong Kong CRE to be behind us.

Speaker Change: Obviously as that has not played out.

Speaker Change: Market and there's just a lot more worried about bronco shadow space understandably.

Speaker Change: So I think the disclosure that you shared earlier, we're pretty helpful to sort of uncle CRE is two large developers too.

Speaker Change: Two third of the portfolio of secured but I think there is probably more information that you know.

Speaker Change: The market would love to have.

Speaker Change: And also along those lines what I wanted to ask you. If you could describe in a bit more detail what led to the downgrade of this particular account.

Akash: So along those lines, what I wanted to ask you, if you could describe in a bit more detail what led to the downgrade of this particular account. Of the CRE book that you have in Hong Kong, how much is what you would call watch list or special mention? How much of it is impaired? If you could also share what is the coverage on that book, the Hong Kong CRE book, as it stands today?

[Analyst] (UBS): So along those lines, what I wanted to ask you, if you could describe in a bit more detail what led to the downgrade of this particular account. Of the CRE book that you have in Hong Kong, how much is what you would call watch list or special mention? How much of it is impaired? If you could also share what is the coverage on that book, the Hong Kong CRE book, as it stands today?

Speaker Change: And of the CRE book that you have in Hong Kong, how much is what you would call. It a watch list, especially you mentioned how much of it is impaired.

And if you could also share what does it coverage on that book, the Hong Kong CRE book as it stands today.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: Okay I'll address the first part of that.

Helen Wong: Okay. I'll address the first part first. If you ask about all the information about watch lists and the coverage and all that, I need some help from Collins and team. You know there are always some figures that we would not disclose or we do not disclose in the past, and we do not intend to suddenly disclose from this day onwards. If you look at the Hong Kong CRE book, as we said, we hope that interest rate come down would help some of the customers, right? So that their interest burden is not so high. If you look at this one customer we talk about, it's not deleveraging fast enough. The bank is under pressure, as we all know, right?

Speaker Change: Yes, if you asked about all the information about watch lists and coverage and all that I need some help from our colleagues and team, but you know there always some shippers that we would not disclose or we do not disclose in the past and we do not intend to supplement these close.

Speaker Change: So I'm just stay on that but if you looked at the Hong Kong CRE book as we said, we said, we'd hope that interest will come down with the help of some of.

Speaker Change: The customers right so without the interest rate button interest burden is not so high.

Speaker Change: If you look at this one customer we talk about.

Speaker Change: Locked deleveraging fast enough.

Speaker Change: So.

Speaker Change: Under pressure as we all know right. So to an extent may say that that means that cash flow is impacted right. If you do not Leslie sponsor now deleverage fast enough and we continue to have to pay high interest and it also depends on the rental market, Australia as well.

Helen Wong: To an extent, we say that means the cash flow is impacted, right? If you do not leverage fast enough, deleverage fast enough, you continue to have to pay high interest. It also depends on the rental market of CRE as well. As I said, there is one customer that we decided to put into NPL for that last quarter. The whole thing is more or less about how you manage the overall portfolio. As we said, we started to help customers to deleverage and also, some of them actually put up more security. Some of them, some of the mid caps, they continue to want the business to grow. They have their own family wealth.

Speaker Change: So as I said, there is one customers that we decided to put into NPL for that last quarter, yeah. So, but the whole thing is more or less about how you manage the overall portfolio. As we said we started to have customer to deleverage.

Speaker Change: And also some of them actually are put up with small security, yeah, and some of them some of them recaps they.

Speaker Change: Have they continued to onshore business to fall they have passed their own family well some of them would say that I actually buy the property from my family well So with that my my company continue to confirm that you'll be able to repay its debt. Yeah. So there are many ways that we talk to our customers.

Helen Wong: Some of them would say that I actually buy the property from my family wealth so that my company continue to be able to repay its debt. Yeah. There are many ways that we talk to our customers, and we also see the efforts of some of them. Given a market like that, it won't be a surprise that then we will be registering some NPLs. We put our customer on watchlist or special mention as we need to. Yeah. I think our coverage is quite healthy in that sense. Again, looking at one part of our book is not overall, it's not all.

Speaker Change: We also see the emphasis on some of them.

Speaker Change: But giving a market like that it wont be surprised that we will be registering some npls and we put people we put our customer on watch list or special mention as we need to but I think our calculations are quite healthy in that sense.

Speaker Change: But that's again looking at one part of our book is not overall, it's not a it's not all.

Speaker Change: The whole thing you have to talk to think about is this part of the MPL contributor to our overall NPL so that means.

Helen Wong: The whole thing you have to think about is this part of the NPL contribute to our overall NPL. That means you don't just look after one particular sector. What we want to do is to be able, Noel is here, to be able to Noel working with Tan Teck Long to be able to look at our overall portfolio, right? Some two years back, people were all asking about China CRE, and we did say that we were never very highly involved in China CRE. Yeah. We cannot say we're not involved in Hong Kong CRE because we have a local entity there, which is a very old bank in Hong Kong. What we're trying to do is we see the issue. We try to overcome that.

Speaker Change: It doesn't just look up to one particular sector. What we want to do is to be able on the wireless you ought to be able to know what Joachim will take long to able to look at our overall portfolio right.

Speaker Change: Some two years by people, we're all asking about China's reality and we just say that we are.

Speaker Change: Well, that's a very highly involved in China's E. L. E. Yeah, we cannot see we're not involved in Hong Kong as young as because we have a local entity that which is a very old bank in Hong Kong, but so what we're trying to do is we see other issue. We're trying to overcome that are actually and something that all ends up at all of our M. P.

Helen Wong: Actually, it all ends up that our overall NPL and coverage is actually still very well managed. I have to say that is part and parcel of the overall risk management that we're actively doing.

Speaker Change: And coverage is actually still very well managed so I have to say that that is part and parcel of the overall risk management that we are actively doing.

Speaker Change: Is it possible to give us a rough indication of what the N. P. O is on that order book uncle Scary.

Akash: Is it possible to give us a rough indication of what the NPL is on that part of the book, Hong Kong CRE?

[Analyst] (UBS): Is it possible to give us a rough indication of what the NPL is on that part of the book, Hong Kong CRE?

Speaker Change: Perhaps I can give you broad numbers.

Pik Wong: Yes. Rakesh. Perhaps I can give broad numbers. In terms of the Hong Kong CRE book, right, the bulk of it, as what Helen mentioned, will be in the large cap kind of a range. Within the mid tier cap, I think it's roughly about a quarter of the book, right? The bulk of it is still performing. Of course, we do from our own internal purposes, we grade this as watchlist or special mention. In terms of NPLs, broad range, just give you a broad range, perhaps maybe about less than 20%, perhaps, is in NPL. Again, this will broadly correspond to what you see in our results where we downgraded that one loan. Is that okay?

Wong Pik Kuen: Yes. Rakesh. Perhaps I can give broad numbers. In terms of the Hong Kong CRE book, right, the bulk of it, as what Helen mentioned, will be in the large cap kind of a range. Within the mid tier cap, I think it's roughly about a quarter of the book, right? The bulk of it is still performing. Of course, we do from our own internal purposes, we grade this as watchlist or special mention. In terms of NPLs, broad range, just give you a broad range, perhaps maybe about less than 20%, perhaps, is in NPL. Again, this will broadly correspond to what you see in our results where we downgraded that one loan. Is that okay?

Speaker Change: In terms of the Hong Kong show.

Speaker Change: All right the bulk of it.

Speaker Change: Alan mentioned would be in the <unk>.

Speaker Change: I don't know if a range so we didn't.

Speaker Change: I think it's roughly about a quarter of a boom right.

Speaker Change: Two performing income of course, we do.

Paul: This is for you Paul.

Speaker Change: Once this all special mention but in terms of Npls.

Speaker Change: What range just give you a broad range, perhaps maybe about less than 20% and Susan M. P O, but again this will probably cross point to what you see in our res.

Speaker Change: So where we downgraded one.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: The percent of the mid cap or yes.

Akash: 20% of the mid cap or the whole book? Mid cap.

[Analyst] (UBS): 20% of the mid cap or the whole book? Mid cap.

Speaker Change: Brought to you.

Pik Wong: Yeah. Roughly. That roughly is attributable to that one CRE that we downgraded this quarter.

Wong Pik Kuen: Yeah. Roughly. That roughly is attributable to that one CRE that we downgraded this quarter.

Speaker Change: Hum.

Speaker Change: One.

Speaker Change: We downgraded this quarter.

Speaker Change: Thank you Congress. This morning is one of the mid caps.

Akash: The CRE that you downgraded this morning is-

[Analyst] (UBS): The CRE that you downgraded this morning is-

Pik Wong: This is one.

Wong Pik Kuen: This is one.

Akash: a mid-cap, not a large-cap.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

[Analyst] (UBS): a mid-cap, not a large-cap.

Pik Wong: Yeah. Correct. Yeah. I mean, having said that, we are still keeping very close watch. That's why within the book, we also do segregate this for our own internal purpose as those under watchlist, special mention that we're paying close attention to. Is that right? Thanks.

Wong Pik Kuen: Yeah. Correct. Yeah. I mean, having said that, we are still keeping very close watch. That's why within the book, we also do segregate this for our own internal purpose as those under watchlist, special mention that we're paying close attention to. Is that right? Thanks.

Speaker Change: Having said that.

Speaker Change: So being very close watch and that's why we tend to be we also do segregate this from a woman.

Speaker Change: This is both on the watch list special mentioned that we're paying close attention to.

Speaker Change: Alright, great. Thank you I just have a few follow up quick questions. The first one is I think a repeat question from earlier from Nick.

Akash: Thank you. I just have a few follow-up quick questions. The first one is, I think a repeat question from earlier from Nick. So the 1 billion share buyback that you've announced for 2025, what is the criteria for this? If the share price continues to remain this high, are you still gonna force and buy those shares at this price? Or is it? What's your thinking on there?

[Analyst] (UBS): Thank you. I just have a few follow-up quick questions. The first one is, I think a repeat question from earlier from Nick. So the 1 billion share buyback that you've announced for 2025, what is the criteria for this? If the share price continues to remain this high, are you still gonna force and buy those shares at this price? Or is it? What's your thinking on there?

Speaker Change: So the 1 billion share buyback, if you've announced for 2025.

Speaker Change: The criteria for this if the share price continues to remain this high are you still going to force them to.

Speaker Change: Those shares at this price or is it what's your thinking on that.

Speaker Change: Okay for the share buyback.

Helen Wong: Okay. For the share buyback, I think Nick also asked a question about mechanism, right? For what we have announced is for cancellation, we'll be buying back from open markets and cancel the shares. There is some internal sort of parameters to guide us in terms of, you know, at which level.

Speaker Change: He also asked a question about Mckenzie to them right. So for what we have now is for cancellation sugar be buying back from open market and cancel the shares that E. Some tightness on Paragon tends to guide us in terms of you know.

Speaker Change: Each level to restart I for example, right yeah. So once you have a cumulative debt even though some of these changes change you will be canceling them under this program.

Goh Chin Yee: Do we stop buying, for example, right? Yeah. Once we have accumulated, you know, some of these treasury shares, we will be canceling them under this program. Yeah. Within the threshold that we have set internally and approved by the board as well.

Speaker Change: Yeah within the chat showed up you have set internally and approved by the board as well.

Speaker Change: Right no I understand the cancellation, but I'm, just saying that the share price.

Akash: Right. No, I understand the cancellation part. I'm just seeing the share price like.

[Analyst] (UBS): Right. No, I understand the cancellation part. I'm just seeing the share price like.

Speaker Change: Other banks have said is that going to be opportunistic about it which means they are actually not going to buy at this kind of level. That's similar for you see a similar is what I meant by the Internet per M. Just him he effect.

Goh Chin Yee: Mm.

Akash: I think what other banks have said is they're gonna be opportunistic about it, which means.

[Analyst] (UBS): I think what other banks have said is they're gonna be opportunistic about it, which means.

Goh Chin Yee: All right.

Akash: They're likely not gonna buy at this kind of level.

Goh Chin Yee: All right.

[Analyst] (UBS): They're likely not gonna buy at this kind of level.

Goh Chin Yee: Yes.

Akash: Is that similar for your?

[Analyst] (UBS): Is that similar for your?

Goh Chin Yee: Yes, similar. That's what I meant by the internal parameters that we have set. Yeah. Above a certain share price, then it doesn't make sense, you know, to pay high to buy back and cancel. We will not do so.

Speaker Change: Above a certain share price.

Speaker Change: Does it make sense to pay high to buyback cancel because not in Brazil in which case. This buyback can actually spillover into 2026 as well right. Yeah submitted my boss finished as soon as possible.

Akash: In which case, this buyback can actually spill over into 2026 as well, right?

[Analyst] (UBS): In which case, this buyback can actually spill over into 2026 as well, right?

Goh Chin Yee: Yeah.

Akash: It's possible that it might not finish this year.

[Analyst] (UBS): It's possible that it might not finish this year.

Speaker Change: In fact for two years means is 25 and 26 two.

Goh Chin Yee: It's possible. Yeah.

Akash: All right.

[Analyst] (UBS): All right.

Goh Chin Yee: In fact, for 2 years means it's 25 and 26. 2 years doesn't mean finish everything in 25.

Speaker Change: Yes, I mean finish everything thing.

Speaker Change: I do.

Speaker Change: We use men 24, and 25 no deaths for the dividend does that mean.

Akash: I see. Okay. I thought 22 years meant 24 and 25.

[Analyst] (UBS): I see. Okay. I thought 22 years meant 24 and 25.

Goh Chin Yee: No, that's for the dividend. Because we are paying out.

Speaker Change: Then in May.

Akash: Okay. Got it

[Analyst] (UBS): Okay. Got it

Speaker Change: In May this year, so that's culture as part of this decline.

Goh Chin Yee: ... the special dividend in May this year, so that's counted as part of the SGD 2.5 billion.

Speaker Change: Understood great and on the net new money, So 21 billion for FY 'twenty four but you saw it and I think they've seen 20% plus numbers for a few years now I just wanted to get a sense do you think there'll be some normalization this year.

Akash: Understood. Great. On the net new money, so SGD 21 billion for FY 2024, pretty solid. I think we've seen 20 billion-plus numbers for a few years now. I just wanted to get a sense, do you think there'll be some normalization this year? Was there something in these trends that tells you that maybe, you know, we might not hit 20 billion this year, it's 18 billion? Or do you think that will continue at the same pace?

[Analyst] (UBS): Understood. Great. On the net new money, so SGD 21 billion for FY 2024, pretty solid. I think we've seen 20 billion-plus numbers for a few years now. I just wanted to get a sense, do you think there'll be some normalization this year? Was there something in these trends that tells you that maybe, you know, we might not hit 20 billion this year, it's 18 billion? Or do you think that will continue at the same pace?

Speaker Change: Was there something in these trends that tells you that maybe you might not hit 20%. This year. It's in there and what do you think that will continue at the same pace.

Speaker Change: I think I will invite Jason to comment a bit and maybe a Sunday as well to talk about is our net new money and the trend yeah.

Goh Chin Yee: I think I will invite Jason to comment a bit, and maybe Sunny as well, to talk about this, net new money and the trend.

Yeah.

So net new money lost your Oh talked a little bit about the combined value. So last year in the money for the group wealth.

Jason Moo: Net new money last year, I'll talk a little bit about the combined value. Last year, net new money for the group wealth was roughly SGD 21 billion. In the last quarter itself was about SGD 8.5 billion. The momentum for the start of the year has been very strong. A lot of it is, at least on the BOS side and on the CFS side, has been going to fee paying and assets. It's been deployed into investments more so than deposits. It's been very active net new money and actively used net new money.

Speaker Change: Was roughly 21 billion she knows and in the last quarter itself was about eight and a half a billion.

Speaker Change: Momentum for the start of the year.

Speaker Change: It has been very strong.

Speaker Change: And a lot of it is at least on the dealer side and on the CSI side has been going into fee paying assets.

Speaker Change: Deployed into investments.

Speaker Change: More so than our deposits so it's been very active.

Speaker Change: Net new money and actively used maybe Monday, so we're quite hopeful for the momentum to carry on through the course of the year with volatility in the markets continue to create.

Jason Moo: We're quite hopeful for the momentum to carry on through the course of the year, with volatility, the markets continuing to create trading opportunities for clients.

Speaker Change: Create trading opportunities for clients.

Speaker Change: Okay understood and appointed consumer banks that we've seen very good traction from our Hong Kong, Singapore to enhance and 10 days.

Akash: Yeah. Understood.

[Analyst] (UBS): Yeah. Understood.

Jason Moo: From consumer banks, we've seen very good traction from our Hong Kong sample of twin hub, and I think that is working very well for us.

Speaker Change: Working very well for us.

Speaker Change: Just a very last question on the NIM and I think even if you take three rate cuts. The view that you have into account for this year I think it doesn't really explain the 15 basis point decline in nims.

Akash: Just a very last question on the NIM. I think even if you take 3 rate cut view that you have into account for this year, I think it doesn't really explain the 15 basis point decline in NIMs that, you know, is being forecasted by you, right? I'm just thinking maybe there is an expectation that you do see a very intense loan pricing competition or you're expecting to be purchasing a lot more of low-yielding assets, which is resulting in a 2% circa NIM. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Is one of those what you're thinking? Because 3 rate cuts only explains, like, 5 to 7 basis points decline. It doesn't explain.

[Analyst] (UBS): Just a very last question on the NIM. I think even if you take 3 rate cut view that you have into account for this year, I think it doesn't really explain the 15 basis point decline in NIMs that, you know, is being forecasted by you, right? I'm just thinking maybe there is an expectation that you do see a very intense loan pricing competition or you're expecting to be purchasing a lot more of low-yielding assets, which is resulting in a 2% circa NIM. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Is one of those what you're thinking? Because 3 rate cuts only explains, like, 5 to 7 basis points decline. It doesn't explain.

Speaker Change: Being forecasted, but you're right.

Maybe there is an expectation that you do see a very intense loan pricing competition or you're expecting to be using a lot more of low yielding assets, which has been something in the 2% Chuck on them.

Speaker Change: Just wanted to get your thoughts.

Speaker Change: Thoughts on that is one of those what youre thinking.

Speaker Change: The three rate cuts when you explain it's like five to seven basis point decline itself doesn't explain.

Speaker Change: Yeah, let me take that yeah. So I did mention that besides the house you truly cuts.

Goh Chin Yee: Yeah, let me take that. Yeah. I did mention that, besides the house view of 3 rate cuts, we also are prioritizing net interest income, you know, through, you know, deploying liquidity into the lower yielding but high quality assets which are income accretive but NIM would compress, you know, with the addition of such. As we are prioritizing NII, NIM become, you know, it is a by-product of our balance sheet strategy in that sense. Yeah.

Speaker Change: So prioritizing net interest income.

Speaker Change: Who you know deploying liquidity into the Louisville, using a high quantity of such Vishal income accretive, but NIM will compress you know good stead.

Speaker Change: And as such but as we are prioritizing and I I naeem become Ah.

Speaker Change: No.

Speaker Change: I pulled that off our balance sheet strategy that sensor.

Speaker Change: That's really clear thank you.

Akash: Understood. That's very clear. Thank you.

[Analyst] (UBS): Understood. That's very clear. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Pik Wong: Thank you, Akash. Jayden from Macquarie, you've got a question?

Wong Pik Kuen: Thank you, Akash. Jayden from Macquarie, you've got a question?

Speaker Change: Jayden from Macquarie just had a question.

Speaker Change: Yes. Thank you.

Jayden Vantarakis: Yeah. Thank you. Just some more questions on GE, Helen. I think we've spoken a lot about it today. Yeah. Hi, good to see you. First of all, if you look at the performance last year, pretty much all the growth was in agency. The bancassurance total weighted net sales actually fell. I was just curious why we were so confident we were seeing the integration playing out. Because if that was true, we should have seen the banker channel doing so much better. The second question is, you obviously have the extension, I think, until May in terms of, you know, I guess they're expecting a refloat or you're looking to delist it. We also have this ongoing stock market review, and they really wanna push more liquidity and more listings.

Jarden Vantarakis: Yeah. Thank you. Just some more questions on GE, Helen. I think we've spoken a lot about it today. Yeah. Hi, good to see you. First of all, if you look at the performance last year, pretty much all the growth was in agency. The bancassurance total weighted net sales actually fell. I was just curious why we were so confident we were seeing the integration playing out. Because if that was true, we should have seen the banker channel doing so much better. The second question is, you obviously have the extension, I think, until May in terms of, you know, I guess they're expecting a refloat or you're looking to delist it. We also have this ongoing stock market review, and they really wanna push more liquidity and more listings.

Speaker Change: Just some more questions on angi, Alan I think we've spoken a lot about it today.

Alan: Yeah, good to see.

Alan: So first of all if you look at the performance last year pretty much all the growth was in agency. The bank assurance total weighted net sales actually fell. So I was just curious why why we were so confident when we're seeing the integration playing out because if that was true we should have seen the banca channel doing so much better.

Alan: And then the second question is you obviously have the extension I think until May in terms of.

Alan: I guess, they are expecting a refund or you're looking to delist. It. We also have this ongoing stock market review and they really want to push more liquidity and more listing so how does that sort of play into the overall, Singapore view of a more vibrant stock market.

Jayden Vantarakis: You know, how does that sort of play into the overall Singapore view of a more vibrant stock market? And then my final question is you had sort of a rethink around the redevelopment of OCBC Centre. Just curious, was there any sort of overlay from a historic point of view or any reasons that was impeding you from redeveloping that sort of have come up that we should be aware of? Sorry if that's a bit off off tangent, but thank you.

Jarden Vantarakis: You know, how does that sort of play into the overall Singapore view of a more vibrant stock market? And then my final question is you had sort of a rethink around the redevelopment of OCBC Centre. Just curious, was there any sort of overlay from a historic point of view or any reasons that was impeding you from redeveloping that sort of have come up that we should be aware of? Sorry if that's a bit off off tangent, but thank you.

Alan:

Alan: And then my final question is you had sort of a rethink around the redevelopment of our C. P. C Center. Just curious was there any sort of overlay from a historic point of view or any any reasons. It was impeding your from Redeveloped. It sort of come up that we should be aware off sorry, if that's a bit of.

Alan: Okay.

Alan: Very diversified question.

Goh Chin Yee: Very diversified question. Okay. The first one on GE, why we are confident. I think bancass is part of it. When we talk about synergy, bancass also subject to what sort of strategy we have and how we work together and whether this is what is being pushed. GE has been having a very big agency for us, we know, right? If you think about it, if the agency all use us as a bancass in handling the sales, the personal use of the bank, that is another way of we talk about synergy, right? I think bancass is part of it, but I can ask Sunny to talk a bit about the bancass cooperation.

Alan: The first one Oh Gee why can't it in I think Banca is part of it when you talk about the synergy bankers are also subject to a more sort of.

Alan: Strategy, where you have and how we work together and whether this is what is something being pushed and junior has been having a very big Agency force, we know right. So if you're thinking about it.

Alan: If the agency all use us in as a banker and handling that and handling the that sounds the personal use of the bank taxes and other way off where you talk about synergy like so I think bankers is a part of it but I can also lead to a talk a bit about bank of.

Alan: Ration.

Alan: But as I said the synergies more than just they using us as a channel is whether we can also tap into their client base at their agency base.

Helen Wong: As I said, the synergy is more than just they're using us as a channel. It's whether we can also tap into their client base or their agency base. Likewise, how do we, if they are entirely part of us, how do we manage our capital together? How do we manage our investments together? How do we actually share expertise together, right? They are long-term investors, yeah? Whereas, we can have longer term lending, and they are investor. I mean, these are just examples. I'm not saying that, I'm now ready to tell you what exactly are we working on. That is the reason why we thought, there are still many more things that we can do together.

Alan: And likewise on how do we if if they are not if they are and tiny part of us how do we manage our capital together, how do we manage our investments together, how do we actually share expertise together right. So they are long term investors yeah, we were S.

Alan: We have we can have longer term lending and they are investor I mean these are just examples I'm not saying that I'm I'm not ready to tell you what exactly are we working on.

Alan: But that is the reason why we felt there's still many more things that we can do to get that and that's why we wanted to be able to.

Helen Wong: That's why we want to be able to have that ownership and control in that sense. You talked about the second one, extension into May. What, how is it going on? What about the stock exchange program, the plan, right? I think when we look at GE, you know that actually over 20 years we have always been trying to acquire more of the shares. It's actually accumulated before we launched the VGO. It was already 88.44%. Yeah. We never change that stance of us. We want to...

Alan: To have that ownership and control in that sense. So you talk about the second one extension into May so what.

Alan: How is it going on and what about does not change our program the plan right.

Speaker Change: I think when we look at G. You know that actually over trying to yes, we have always been trying to acquire more of a chest and it's actually accumulated before we launched a week ago. It was already 88 or four 4% and we never changed that stance of us they wanted to.

Speaker Change: And we think last year was the right time as we look at our capital as we look at all our copper strategy. It's just the right time that we launched that in Israel last year, yeah. So.

Helen Wong: We think last year was the right time as we look at our capital, as we look at all our corporate strategy. It is the right time that we launched that VGO last year. Yeah. The stock change program, the new plan is welcome because I think it's good for the market. It's also good for the liquidity. What is good to the market should ultimately benefit our wealth business as well. I like that. In that sense, it is totally welcome. Our decision on how we want to integrate GE more tightly into the whole group, that's not changed in that sense. Yeah. Your last question is about our redevelopment.

Speaker Change: That's all changed our program, though the new plan is an outcome because I think it's good for the market is also good is also good for the liquidity and what is good to the market should ultimately benefit our wealth business as well so I like that in that sense, it's totally welcome but.

Speaker Change: Our decision on how we want to pool GE type to integrate into the whole group.

Speaker Change: That's a Dutch law change in that sense, yes. So your last question is about how are we development, yes, we explore because there are chances to explore.

Helen Wong: Yes, we explore because there are chances to explore as we look at some of the how the city area how some of the new buildings has been developed and all that. You do know, even when we explore it, you know we always say we want to preserve our OCBC Center. Yeah. This is a heritage trace site. All this is put into our consideration as we think about redevelopment. Meaning even if we redevelop, we're still keeping the center. This also comes into consideration when we look at the plan and can we actually consider more as we go into the future?

Speaker Change: As we look at some of the some of the how the city area.

Speaker Change: Some of the new new buildings has been developed and all of that and as you do know even when the explorer and you know.

Speaker Change: We always say, we want to preserve or CPC central yeah.

Speaker Change: And this is our heritage trace funds. So all this is put into our consideration as we think about development, meaning even if maybe develop we're not we're still keeping the center.

Speaker Change: This also comes into consideration when we look at the plan and you can really actually consider more as we go into the future and you'll also know that we are also talking about and we have announced last year I got to re up or chasing a building in Congo District.

Helen Wong: You also know that we are also talking about, and we have announced last year that we are purchasing a building in Punggol Digital District, where we are teaming up with SIT. Also, it is one of the things that we continue want to invest in technology, right? We have yet another new building coming up. We think we have time to think deeper into how we want to look at these clusters of properties. As a way, it was a very keen interest in exploring, and ultimately leading to this stage where we say that, "Hey, we can actually put it on hold for a while.

Speaker Change: Where we are coming up with a S I T.

Speaker Change: Also it is one of the things that we called do you want to invest in technology right. So we have yet another new building coming up. So we think we have time to think deeper into how we want to look at discussed yourself properties, but that's the way at Wassa.

Speaker Change: Keen interest in exploring and ultimate anything to you at this stage when we think that we can actually put it on hold for a while.

Frank: Thank you Frank I'm, just going to take two last questions. One from Taobao and then when from the analysts.

Thomas: Thank you very much.

Helen Wong: Thank you very much.

Pik Wong: Okay. We're just gonna take two last questions, one from Lianhe Zaobao and then one from the analyst. Thomas, go ahead.

Wong Pik Kuen: Okay. We're just gonna take two last questions, one from Lianhe Zaobao and then one from the analyst. Thomas, go ahead.

Frank: Oh, no actually actually my question is also about the retail development to do.

Thomas: Yeah. Actually, my question is also about the redevelopment. Do you have an updated timetable for this or is it delayed?

Wong Pik Kuen: Yeah. Actually, my question is also about the redevelopment. Do you have an updated timetable for this or is it delayed?

Frank: Do you have a timetable for this or is this.

Frank: Hello.

Frank: That's a simple answer yes, we don't.

Helen Wong: That's a simple answer, yes, we don't. Yeah.

Frank: Yeah.

Frank: Yes Robin from.

Frank: It does specie.

Pik Wong: Yeah. Weldon from HSBC.

Wong Pik Kuen: Yeah. Weldon from HSBC.

Speaker Change: Hi, I have two questions. One is on this high quality I think if I look at the Npls by if there was any construction the npls increased by 700 million.

Thomas: Hi. I have two questions. One is on asset quality. I think if I look at NPLs by building construction, the NPLs increased by SGD 700 million. Besides Hong Kong, do you have any other CRE that may be at risk like the US, and what is your LTV for your any US exposure that you have? That's the first question. The second question is on the GE. You talked a bit about the GE and you said there's some capital synergies there. I'm wondering like what is this synergy exactly? Is it just upstreaming the capital from GE to the group? Is this required for your, you know, comprehensive dividend plan?

Wong Pik Kuen: Hi. I have two questions. One is on asset quality. I think if I look at NPLs by building construction, the NPLs increased by SGD 700 million. Besides Hong Kong, do you have any other CRE that may be at risk like the US, and what is your LTV for your any US exposure that you have? That's the first question. The second question is on the GE. You talked a bit about the GE and you said there's some capital synergies there. I'm wondering like what is this synergy exactly? Is it just upstreaming the capital from GE to the group? Is this required for your, you know, comprehensive dividend plan?

Speaker Change: Besides Hong Kong do you have any other CRE there may be areas like in the U S and why the show LTV and do you feel any U S exposure that you have.

Speaker Change: So that's first question and then the second question is on you talked a bit about the GE and you said, there's some capital synergies there.

Speaker Change: So I'm wondering is this.

Speaker Change: Does this synergy.

Speaker Change: Just upstream in the capital from GE to the group and this required for your comprehensive dividend plan.

Alan: Alan Let me take the first question.

Pik Wong: Helen, you want me to take the first question? Weldon, in terms of the NPL for the building construction sector, it's actually due to the downgrade of the Hong Kong CRE. Right. I guess in terms of other locations on this, I think those have already been factored in the past, right? In terms of the overall LTV for the CRE portfolio on average across, it's about 50 to 60% for the book.

Wong Pik Kuen: Helen, you want me to take the first question? Weldon, in terms of the NPL for the building construction sector, it's actually due to the downgrade of the Hong Kong CRE. Right. I guess in terms of other locations on this, I think those have already been factored in the past, right? In terms of the overall LTV for the CRE portfolio on average across, it's about 50 to 60% for the book.

Alan: In terms of the M. P O for the building construction sector.

Alan: Due to the downgrade of the Hong Kong show.

Alan: But I guess in terms of other medications.

Alan: I think if we do you mean, the fact that in the past.

Alan: In terms of the overall LTV of 40, you show your portfolio.

Richard: Richard It's about 50, 60%.

Alan: Yeah.

Helen Wong: Okay. Yeah. You want to follow up on this question?

Alan: Wanted to follow up on this question.

Alan: Yes.

Alan: But there could be specific locations in which the LTV might be yeah. So soon.

Thomas: Yeah, because the average is 50, 60, right? There could be specific locations in which the LTV might be, you know.

Helen Wong: Yeah, because the average is 50, 60, right? There could be specific locations in which the LTV might be, you know.

Helen Wong: Oh, yeah.

Alan: You said you.

Thomas: Yeah. Is there any, you know, areas that you would flag that we might be, we should be aware of?

Helen Wong: Yeah. Is there any, you know, areas that you would flag that we might be, we should be aware of?

Alan: We ask that you would flag that we might be.

Alan: Monday.

Helen Wong: None that we would need to flag.

Mitchell: Mitchell flat, Okay now okay.

Helen Wong: None that we would need to flag.

Thomas: Okay.

Helen Wong: Okay.

Helen Wong: Now. Okay. On GE, I talked about capital, right? I also would not be able to comment on exactly how we do it. At this stage, you know that GE is still a separate listed company with its independent board and there's a lot of independent directors, I mean, they're independent directors. To that extent, I cannot comment even more about if we are successful, what are we going to do? If we are successful, then yeah, of course, we'll be able to talk a bit more about plans and how we actually bring GE in and how we realize the synergy a bit more. There are many examples. I was just talking about business opportunity, right?

Speaker Change: Gee I talked about capital right and I also would not be able to comment on exactly how we do it because at this stage you know that she is still a separately listed company with its independent of sport.

Mitchell: There's a lot of independent directors.

Mitchell: Linda independent directors, so to that extent I cannot comment even more about if we are successful what are we going to do so if we are successful then of course, we'll be able to talk a bit more about our plans on how we actually bring a G in and how we can realize the synergy a bit more.

Mitchell: There are many examples I was just talking about business opportunity right and in particular is that Malaysia actually it actually gives us even more a potential and Singapore.

Helen Wong: In particular, I said Malaysia actually, it actually give us even more potential than Singapore. Indeed, only that on the capital part, we can't comment. This is our plan going forward. In a way, as we said, if we're able to come up with a plan of SGD 2.5 billion, that means we also have a deeper look into the future that we can actually distribute this out now. In fact, we can till later.

Mitchell: But indeed oney that's on the capital path become comment, but this is our plan going forward and in a way as we said if we if we if we're able to come up with a plan of $2 5 billion that we also have a deeper look into the future that Oh, we can we can ask.

Mitchell: The tissue built this out now and something until lethal.

Mitchell: Okay, so with that I should call the meeting to an event and thank you for joining us. This morning. Thank you.

Pik Wong: Okay. With that, I shall call the meeting to an end, and thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you.

Wong Pik Kuen: Okay. With that, I shall call the meeting to an end, and thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you.

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