Q4 2024 DallasNews Corp Earnings Call
Krista: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. My name is Krista and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Dallas News fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call.
Speaker Change: This is Gerry Connolly, Vice President and controller of Dallas News Corporation welcomed.
Speaker Change: Welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2024 investor call.
Speaker Change: I'm joined by Kathy Collins, Dallas News as Chief Financial Officer, who will be reviewing financial results call.
Murray: Murray President of Dallas News, and Grandma used Chief Executive Officer, who will provide brief business remarks.
Speaker Change: Yesterday afternoon, we issued a press release announcing fourth quarter and full year 2024 results and filed our 2020 for 10-K.
Speaker Change: Both of these are posted on our web site that was news Corporation Dot com under the Investor Relations section.
Speaker Change: Unless otherwise specified comparisons used on todays call measure fourth quarter and full year 2020 for performance against fourth quarter and full year 2023 performance.
Speaker Change: Our discussion today will include forward looking statements forward looking statements are subject to risks uncertainties and other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those statements.
Speaker Change: The company assumes no obligation to update the information in this communication, except as otherwise required by law.
Speaker Change: Additional information about these factors is detailed in the company's press releases and publicly available filings with the SEC.
Speaker Change: Today's discussion will include non-GAAP financial measures, we believe that non-GAAP financial measures provide useful supplemental information to assist investors in determining performance comparisons to our peers.
Speaker Change: A reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP financial measures is included with our press release.
Kathy Collins: Now I'll turn the call over to Kathy.
Kathy Collins: Good morning, everyone and thank you for joining today's call.
Kathy Collins: On a GAAP basis for the quarter Dallas News Corporation reported net income of $4 million or <unk> 74 per share and an operating loss of $1 8 million in Q4 of last year, We reported a net loss of $2 2 million and an operating loss of two 5 million, which includes severance expense of $2 7 million.
Kathy Collins: For the 2023 voluntary severance offer.
Kathy Collins: On a non-GAAP basis for the quarter, we reported an adjusted operating loss of $1 $3 million, a decrease of $1 9 million when compared to adjusted operating income of $600000 reported for the same period last year.
Kathy Collins: We reported $31 1 million of total revenue for the quarter, which compares to $34 million last year.
Kathy Collins: Advertising and marketing services revenue decreased $1 $3 million for the quarter due to a print advertising revenue decline of $1 1 million or 16, 6% compared to the same period last year.
Kathy Collins: Circulation revenue decreased $800000 for the quarter, primarily due to a $700000 decline in print circulation revenue.
Kathy Collins: Which included $200000 from single copy sales for the fourth quarter of 2023 for the Texas Rangers, winning the 2023 World series.
Kathy Collins: Other revenue decreased $800000 or 19, 4% for the quarter, resulting primarily from a handful of commercial printing partnership and nonrecurring revenue of $500000 generated in 2023 from Texas Rangers World series product sales.
Kathy Collins: Uh huh.
Kathy Collins: On a non-GAAP basis total adjusted operating expense for the quarter was $32 4 million an improvement of $1 million when compared to the same period last year driven by expense savings of 600000 in employee compensation and benefits and 500000 in newsprint.
Kathy Collins: Turning to full year results on a GAAP basis, we reported net income of $131000 or <unk> <unk> per share and an operating loss of $7 1 million, which includes severance expense of $2 8 million related to the transition of our print and distribution operations doing smaller printing facility.
Kathy Collins: Net income includes a noncash tax benefit of $5 million.
Kathy Collins: <unk> from a reduction in the valuation allowance in anticipation of the use of net operating losses to offset the 2025 gain on the sale of the Plano property.
Kathy Collins: For 2023, we reported a GAAP net loss of $7 $1 million and an operating loss of $8 1 million.
Kathy Collins: On a non-GAAP basis for the year, we reported an adjusted operating loss of one $6 million an improvement of $1 1 million when compared to an adjusted operating loss of $2 7 million reported in 2023.
Kathy Collins: The improvement is primarily due to expense savings of $15 $4 million with the greatest reductions in employee compensation and benefits distribution expense and these trends partially offset by a total revenue decline of $14 four excuse me $14 $3 million.
Kathy Collins: $10 7 million of the revenue decline and $9 1 million of the expense savings are the result of the discontinuation of the shared mail program and critical and the addition of our niche publications in 2023.
Kathy Collins: We reported $125 4 million in total revenue for the year and this compares to $139 7 million last year.
Kathy Collins: Advertising and marketing services revenue decreased $11 1 million or 18, 9% year over year.
Kathy Collins: Excluding the $10 7 million reduction in print advertising, resulting from the discontinued product lines print advertising revenue declined $1 4 million or five 7%.
Kathy Collins: Partially offset by an improvement of $1 million or six 5% in marketing marketing and media services revenue driven by new customer contracts that began in 2024.
Kathy Collins: Circulation revenue decreased $500000 from 2023, which was driven by a print circulation decline and 200000, which is attributable to single copy sales for the Texas Rangers reading, winning the World series.
Kathy Collins: The print circulation decline was partially offset by an increase in digital only circulation revenue.
Kathy Collins: As of December 31, the news had 64334 digital only subscribers an increase of 1334 or two 1% compared to last year.
Kathy Collins: We continue to focus on finding the optimal balance between pricing and volume strategy, our digital subscriptions and grant will provide additional commentary on those efforts shortly.
Kathy Collins: Total subscribers, including both home delivery and digital subscribers.
Kathy Collins: 126973 as of December 31.
Kathy Collins: Compared to 132694 as of December last year.
Kathy Collins: Decreased $2 7 million or 17, 7% compared to last year, primarily due to a cancelled commercial printing and distribution partnership of $900000 in revenue.
Kathy Collins: On a non-GAAP basis total adjusted operating expenses for the year was $127 million, an improvement of $15 4 million or 10, 8% when compared to the $142 4 million of adjusted operating expense last year.
Kathy Collins: The improvement is primarily due to expense savings of $5 5 million in employee compensation and benefits $6 5 million in distributions and $3 5 million in newsprint.
Kathy Collins: Newsprint expense is favorable year over year I found this on the web.
Newsprint expense at favorable year over year as the result of lower circulation and discontinuing print only additions of our niche publications.
Kathy Collins: <unk> purchase price has continued to trend favorably.
Kathy Collins: As of year end, the average newsprint industry cost per metric ton was $637 compared to $687 in 2023, a decrease of seven 3%.
Kathy Collins: We are monitoring for any potential impacts as they relate to potential price increases and tariffs in 2025.
Kathy Collins: As of December 31, headcount was 526 down 75 compared to last year as of the beginning of May we expect head count to be approximately 460. After the departure of production employees in the first quarter of this year.
Kathy Collins: Cash along with short term investments was $9 6 million on December 31, and as of March 17 cash was $47 million.
Kathy Collins: In 2024, we paid 484000 of Texas franchise taxes for fiscal year 2023 net of tax refunds, we expect the Texas franchise tax in May of this year to be approximately the same for 2024.
Kathy Collins: For the year the company recorded a tax benefit of $5 million due to a reduction in the valuation allowance for deferred tax assets that we determined to be realizable as an offset to the income from Plano property sale.
Kathy Collins: As of December 31, 2024, the company had $61 million of federal net operating loss carryforward.
Kathy Collins: $17 5 million, which expire in 2037 and $42 $5 million I have in exploration.
Kathy Collins: In the first quarter of 2025, we will record a gain on the sale of the Plano property and utilize a significant portion of our Nols to offset the gain which will minimize cash taxes.
Kathy Collins: We're pleased with the progress the.
Kathy Collins: The company has made this year towards our long term strategy.
Kathy Collins: And we were right in line for how we expect it to end the year.
Kathy Collins: We remain in a good position on our balance sheet made stronger with the recent sale of a property in Plano that Kt will elaborate on and we're encouraged by the results. We're seeing so far in 2025, I will now turn the call over to Katy.
Katy: Good morning, everyone and thank you for joining our year end call.
Katy: I am extremely pleased with the progress we made in 2024 on a number of initiatives.
Katy: First we have transitioned our print operations to a smaller more efficient facility and in addition to generating over 5 million in annualized expense savings to start in 2025.
Katy: The move has allowed us to successfully monetize the Plano facility for $43 5 million.
Katy: We are truly excited that the <expletive> eight EV will be repurposing the facility.
Katy: Second the sale of the property has provided capital, which will allow us to voluntarily fully fund our pension plan as.
Speaker Change: As Greg and I have always stated we view the pension plan as our debt and have been committed to ensuring that the retirement benefits of 1300 of our former and current employees is secure and fully funded.
Speaker Change: As of the end of January the plan was approximately 94% funded.
Speaker Change: And the investment allocation had been moved to 100% immunizing to limit market risk and volatility.
Speaker Change: We expect that we will continue we will contribute between 14 and $16 million before the end of the second quarter to complete the purchase of an annuity contract from an insurance carrier and complete the transfer of the planned assets.
Grant: Now I'll turn the call over to grant.
Grant: Thanks, Katy reflecting on 2020 for the year was highlighted by a transformational projects focused on the long term success of the company.
As Jamie noted the transition of our print operations to a smaller and more efficient facility and the sale of the Plano property have been instrumental in our ability to strengthen our balance sheet by reducing expenses, adding cash and giving us the ability to eliminate the only debt the company has.
Grant: In addition to these print production changes medium giant contribution to the company's operating income was a priority in 2024 and continues to be in 2020 for us as.
Speaker Change: As we reviewed the business at the end of 2023, I needed better visibility into the margin that we knew our agency business could deliver and this led to the implementation of segment reporting.
Speaker Change: Segment reporting not only gives us gives the management team and me the visibility we need into the business, but it also provides our investors that same insight.
Speaker Change: Medium giant has not hit the margin we are seeking on a year over year basis medium giant improved its contribution by $1 2 million.
Speaker Change: And it's becoming more accretive to the company as John <unk> President of medium giant continues to implement the strategy.
Speaker Change: The Dallas morning news side of the business investments in our website and our App, where our priority last year, we chose to prioritize these product enhancements over the creation of new digital products in 2024, which was a deviation from our original plan to diversify our digital product portfolio.
Speaker Change: This change was necessary because our digital audience for our core products have begun to decline after many years of consistent growth.
Speaker Change: Need a growing digital audience to continue to fuel our digital subscriptions and digital advertising revenue from our core product and we have chosen to stabilize that audience before shifting additional resources to expand the portfolio. These product enhancements in 2024 included our website performance the speed.
Speaker Change: The website is one of the largest determining factors of its prioritization on search engines in December of 2020 for the page load speed of Dallas News Dot Com was five nine seconds. This improvement is 19% better than the beginning of 2024 and 46% faster than where we were 18 months ago.
Speaker Change: We also chose to upgrade our core App, we upgraded this app for both iOS and Android and we've received positive feedback from consumers from those material upgrades and its user experience. We will continue to do the same thing in 2025, so our journalism can shine on all platforms.
Speaker Change: We launched an article video player and our sports section last year, and we are rolling it out but the video player across the entire website in the coming months early results are strong as we are meeting direct advertising goals and we've increased increase the time spent on page by three two times than prior to the.
Speaker Change: Patients of the same and vertical video player. In addition to video. We also brought back reader commenting on our website, we heard from our customers that not being able to comment on stories made our website experience less valuable than other news websites similar to how we launched video we're starting with a single section of the website.
Speaker Change: And we will continue to rollout this functionality in the coming months.
Speaker Change: Going from product to digital subscriptions as Kathy noted when we think about digital subscriptions, we continue to focus on the right balance between price and volume in the third.
Speaker Change: Third quarter of 2024, we made an intentional shift from pricing.
To strategies that would grow our digital subscription volume, while we're still in the early stages of this new price strategy. We grew our digital subscription base by 3119 in the fourth quarter, which was the strongest volume growth we have seen in eight quarters.
Speaker Change: Last but not least our focus has and always will be on the excellence of our journalism in 2024, we havent investigative series entitled Bleeding out.
Journalists uncovered that tens of thousands of Americans die from preventable bleeding each year, because ambulances were not carrying blood as a result of this excellent journalism a new program in Dallas has been implemented that will ensure paramedics have blood supplies in the field, which will help prevent depths between accident sites in the hospital.
Speaker Change: For journalism company focused on excellence when we see that our work translates into policy changes that improve or in this case save lives. It reminds us why journalism is so important to our region and our country.
Speaker Change: As we look to 2025, our team remains focused on continuing to produce excellent journalism, improving our digital products growing digital subscription.
Speaker Change: <unk> growing digital subscriptions and maintaining the excellence of our print product from our new plant in Carrollton Krista, we will now open it up to questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you we will now begin the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue and if you'd like to withdraw that question again press star one.
Speaker Change: Your first question comes from Rohit <unk> Gilmore. Please go ahead.
Rohit: Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Good morning.
Speaker Change: On the print advertising side, there was a pretty substantial decrease quarter over quarter and year over year can you guys share some color on kind of what led to that decrease in what you saw in the quarter and what youre seeing in the year to date for advertising.
Grant: Yes, so rohit, it's grant I'll answer that.
Grant: Print advertising is unique because less than 10% of our print advertisers are on an annual contract.
Grant: So what that means is that we get it sometimes just in time, it's like just in time inventory, we get these things very in very short order.
Grant: And what happened in the fourth quarter with that 16, 6% drop was obviously much lower than the rest of the year and it came from a variety of areas, but mostly in our classified revenue are classified revenue was just uniquely soft in the quarter.
Grant: It continued a little bit into the early part of this year and we're seeing March start to pick up so again when it's one of those things that is not contracted it has some volatility and that's the bad news is we saw but the good news is that pendulum can swing in the other direction as well.
Grant: Got it on the expense side can you guys provide the total operating expenses incurred in the quarter, that's associated with the 80 or so employees that are going to be leaving.
Grant: The company is related to the Plano severance plan.
Speaker Change: So <unk> I'll take that question.
Speaker Change: And we're not going to provide the fourth quarter. There was a lot of activity happening there and I think everybody knows.
Speaker Change: We were really pleased that the sale was completed last week.
It took a little bit longer than we had expected, but the patients was a worthwhile and we got the right buyer for the property the first quarter on a year over year basis, that's really going to be clean is going to be the second quarter of this year, even in this first quarter.
Speaker Change: We have been incurring facility charges and employees et cetera, because we've owned the building up through last week and so I think on the first quarter call that'll be the really the first opportunity for us to get some insight into the second quarter, where we're going to start seeing again year over year favorability, but what I will say is and I made in my comments the $5 million on an app.
Speaker Change: Annualized basis is a good number.
Speaker Change: Again thats annualized so while we had hoped that it was started on January one it's not so it can be really kind of starting second half of March and full first month of April.
Speaker Change: But we will give visibility to that on our first quarter call, but again those savings.
Speaker Change: Our substantial and we're going to be realized.
Speaker Change: Got it that makes sense.
Speaker Change: On the digital volume circulation.
Speaker Change: Greg could you would you be willing to provide that year to date.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Yes, I will tell you I don't have the specific numbers wrote one of kind of where we are year to date I will tell you that 3000 that over 3100, where we were in the fourth quarter has slowed down in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: But some of that may be the market well for those of you on this call who track the industry digital subscriptions overall across the industry have softened. However, we also are doing something on February 18th we implemented.
Our new AI algorithm technology for our paywall.
Speaker Change: And so what that is going to do is.
Speaker Change: Measure the propensity of someone to subscribe when they get to the size of the technology.
Speaker Change: We'll kind of intercept to them based on who has the highest propensity to subscribe and like any technology again that I said, we implemented in mid February it's just taking a little bit of time.
Speaker Change: For those algorithms to kind of read what's unique to our market. So again, we're going to be softer in the first quarter than we were in the fourth quarter. It is hard to tell at this point ROE on how much of that is just because we've done such a significant paywall technology change.
Speaker Change: Versus.
Speaker Change: What is.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Caused more by the market but.
Speaker Change: Obviously, we'll have more to come on that at the end of the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Understood. That's all for me. Thank you for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you Johan.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Adam Ballantyne with <unk> capital. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Adam Ballantyne: Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. This morning.
Speaker Change: Hi, Adam.
Speaker Change: On the asset sale with with the utilization of.
Speaker Change: I was just curious Lynn.
Speaker Change: What you might expect the after tax proceeds to be.
Speaker Change: So on an after tax basis. So the growth proceeds were $43 5 million.
Speaker Change: We expect that we're probably paying less than about $1 million in taxes between state and federal.
Speaker Change: And then net of the sales costs and we're really looking at.
Speaker Change: Net proceeds probably close to $39 million.
Speaker Change: Oh, great Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: On a.
Speaker Change: Capital expenditure basis.
Speaker Change: I think you guys noted 2 million in additional capex for the new facility in.
Speaker Change: Mostly in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: And then once once that's completed.
Speaker Change: Can you kind of go back to the.
Speaker Change: The pre.
Speaker Change: <unk> 2024 run rate that you guys have.
Speaker Change: It was sort of a 100 to 200000 a quarter.
Speaker Change: Or maybe you could help me out.
Speaker Change: Capex intensity going forward after the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Adam Youre exactly right look the first quarter, we had some of the final payments of the press.
Speaker Change: And we also had some capitalized items as it related to the lease facility going forward. Our capital requirements are going to be minimal really just around laptops and things like that so I would say each quarter substantially probably in that $2 50 to $500000 range, but that would be the Max at 500000.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Great and then.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: I know that there was a lot of noise as you said and in the fourth quarter, but just kind of looking at.
Speaker Change: Consolidated expense lines.
Speaker Change: I think the other production and distribution operating costs that had a pretty major jumped in the fourth quarter and I was wondering if.
Speaker Change: I didn't see any fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Non cash severance in there.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: It's certainly encouraging.
Speaker Change: 52%.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Does it come down in 2025 or are we going to see the majority.
Speaker Change: $10 million.
Speaker Change: Savings from the employee.
Speaker Change: Tom.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Speaker Change: And it's a great question. So look I think in the fourth quarter. We had some additional expenses, obviously on a year over year basis related to the new Carrollton facility lease that'll be consistent in 'twenty. Five however, we will see reductions along the production and distribution expenses again, probably not going to see a lot of those coming through until the second quarter of this year.
Speaker Change: However, the $5 million I would tell you it's going to be majority is going to be sitting in comp and Dan which.
Speaker Change: Which would be the salary costs and then also the benefit costs.
Kathy Collins: And then the remainder of that'll be down in the production and distribution and operating expense line as Kathy mentioned on newsprint and ink right now we've been seeing favorability on newsprint pricing, but that's an area that we're going to continue to watch this year, especially as the discussions around tariffs increase.
Great just one more for me if I could.
Kathy Collins: In terms of sort of.
Kathy Collins: Cash flow and profitability and tie it all together.
Kathy Collins: The $2 million.
Kathy Collins: Thanks, a lot.
Kathy Collins: And the gains.
Kathy Collins: Thanks.
Kathy Collins: Isn't it.
Speaker Change: Sir in the Se business will be cash flow positive.
Kathy Collins: This year.
Kathy Collins: Just given kind of cyclicality of advertising spending.
Adam: So Adam what I would say as you know we don't give guidance.
Kathy Collins: I'm not going to speculate on the cash flow.
Adam: The company is everything that we are focused on right I mean, obviously, the capex will become.
Adam: More minimal throughout the year, but it really will depend on operations.
Adam: Our goal is to be cash flow positive as soon as we possibly can but again I can't speculate on the exact timing of that.
Adam: Okay, great. Thanks for the questions guys. Thanks.
Adam: Thanks, Adam.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Booker Smith with Smith management. Please go ahead.
Booker Smith: Hi, guys. Congrats on this al Thanks for taking the questions can you comment more on the capital allocation understand your annuities and the pension require I think you said roughly $14 million to $16 million of cash contribution.
Booker Smith: But after that how much capex exactly will be required for the remainder of the Carrollton facility and after that what do we think the proceeds are going to use or is it going to is the delta primarily going to be used for distributions to shareholders. Do you think is there other capex that needs to be funded with like some color on that thank you.
Booker Smith: Sure.
Booker Smith: Great.
Booker Smith: Thank you for joining our call so great question.
Booker Smith: Look I think as everybody knows the sale of real estate with our last significant well actually our last real estate that we had to sell and it just closed last week as I mentioned in my prepared comments.
Booker Smith: We took the opportunity in January to immunize the.
Booker Smith: Investment allocation of the pension and anticipation that we would be able to a new <unk>.
Booker Smith: And historically, we've talked about three different things at one from a capital allocation perspective, the board really looked at it in three ways, one what do we need as the investment in the business ongoing how do we think about our ongoing obligation to the pension and then what do we think about from a capital allocation for shareholders.
Booker Smith: We just answered the second question on the pension is going to take related to the second quarter to fully and new as high as that.
Booker Smith: What I would say, though as we think about capital allocation back to your question Capex on an annual basis outside of the Carrollton facility expense or the capital in Q1 annual capital should be somewhere between $5 million and $1 million million dollars on the top and if there needs to be some replacement is something significant.
Booker Smith: Right now the board is continuing to think about capital allocation will continue over the next several months as everybody knows we've got board meetings every quarter, but right now just really focused on eliminating this pension obligation that we had and really getting the management time to really assess what the capital needs are.
Booker Smith: For the business to continue to invest in our digital applications as we all know digital growth is.
Booker Smith: A key part of our return to growth plan.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks might return to that in a second.
Booker Smith: One question in terms of.
Booker Smith: Your transactional expenses, so the growth purchase price on the playing up facility I understand that was $43 5 million.
Booker Smith: And there is a $600000 ASP.
Booker Smith: I hear that right that youre anticipating net proceeds of roughly $39 million.
Booker Smith: Yes, and we had.
Booker Smith: Basically expenses related to whether that's commissions legal expenses environmental work that we had to do that is the difference.
Speaker Change: Got it without am I right in thinking that around 10%.
Booker Smith: A little less than 10%, a little bit less than 10% got it okay.
Speaker Change: There will be some taxes as well so we will have some cash taxes, but less than $1 million.
Speaker Change: Okay, but so its $39 million the right number to think about in terms of the network.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Alright, Thank you actually lapsing, how much is expected for <unk> for the remainder for until it's done.
Speaker Change: I'm, sorry were you asking about the capital expenditures, yes, the capex for Carolyn.
Speaker Change: They're going to be completed in Q1 with a couple of million dollars related to the press and then the finalization of any of the leasehold build out that we have to do but they are they are basically all incurred at this point.
Speaker Change: Okay, great and actually I lied one more.
Speaker Change: <unk> digital margins are you seeing those accretive on key.
Speaker Change: Your overall margins.
Speaker Change: Or are you seeing those like inched up I guess to your print margins.
Speaker Change: How would you describe the digital margins and additional investments.
Booker Smith: Yes broker, it's grant I'll take that.
Speaker Change: On the digital margins I've mentioned video as an example video is really a good yield to play for us because what advertisers are willing to pay for video advertising is considerably higher than print and thats why every bit of video we can add to the site one it's Greg.
Speaker Change: For the for the subscriber but also to it is very good for us to continue to improve the digital margin, which is already very strong on the Dallas morning News side of the business, but again that is the main financial driver for US behind this focus on video is that.
Speaker Change: It just continues to make the margin better from the core digital asset.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Okay. So your view is that margin will be accretive to the overall or I'm, sorry, digital will be accretive to the overall margin.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Dallas morning News in total.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you that's all I had thanks for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Thanks Roger.
Speaker Change: And we have no further questions in our queue. At this time I will now turn the conference back over to Kathy Collins for closing remarks.
Kathy Collins: Thank you Chris for your assistance this morning and to everyone who has joined thank you again for listening to our fourth quarter and full year 2024 results.
Kathy Collins: And we look forward to updating everyone on our first quarter 2025 results, which will help which will be held in mid April.
Kathy Collins: And ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation and you may now disconnect.
Kathy Collins: Okay.
Kathy Collins: [music].
Kathy Collins: Okay.
Kathy Collins: Yeah.