Q4 2024 JinkoSolar Holding Co Ltd Earnings Call
At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. After.
After managements prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer session.
As a reminder, today's conference call is being recorded.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the meeting over to your host for today's call Ms. Stella Wang Genco Solus Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Thank you operator, thank you everyone for joining us today for <unk> fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call.
Speaker Change: The results were released earlier today and available on the Companys IR website at to Chipotle with Otting Comptroller dotcom as well as on Newswire services. We have also provided a supplemental presentation for today's earnings call, which can also based on the IR website.
Speaker Change: On the call today from <unk> solar <unk>, Chairman and CEO of <unk> Holdings Company limited.
Sam: Yeah, Sam all of <unk> Solar company limited and he said past CFO soon close on our holding company limited on the Mr. Kelley CFO of <unk> Solar Company limited.
Speaker Change: And he said he will discuss seem close one of those business operations and company highlights followed by Mr. Miao, who will talk about ourselves and marketing and then Mr. Peng who will go through the financials. They will all be available to answer your questions. During the Q&A session that follows.
Speaker Change: Note that today's discussion will contain forward looking statements made under the safe Harbor provisions of the U S. Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of a 1995 forward looking statements involve inherent inherent risks and uncertainties as such our future results when maybe.
Speaker Change: Materially different from the views expressed today further information regarding this and other.
Speaker Change: It is included in <unk> public filings.
Mr. Li: Securities and Exchange Commission Pimco solar does not assume any obligation to update any forward looking statements, except as required under the applicable law. It's now my pleasure to introduce Mr. <unk> <unk>, chairman and CEO of it's even closer with our holdings, Mr. Li will speak in Mandarin.
Mr. Li: Our trust made his comments into English. Please go ahead Mr. Li.
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Speaker Change: She inquiries on where new chance to bite you saw imaging Xiaomi sons, who due to news and with somebody else. So longer term, we delivered a more resilient operating results in a challenging year of 2000 and that 24.
Speaker Change: Our leading position in type top comm technology and to pay down the portfolio.
Speaker Change: Imperative product as well as school of ourselves and our manufacturing networks.
Speaker Change: Module shipments increased by 18, 3% year over year to slip.
Speaker Change: Slip out and that is and I think three gigawatt ranking first in the industry.
Speaker Change: Growing imbalance between supply and demand that's a decline in the module prices in 2024 combined with the impact of a short term factors such as the elimination of the obsolete production capacity of a profitability dropped significantly year over year gross margin was 10 nine.
Speaker Change: In 2024 compared to 16% in 2023.
Speaker Change: The income was.
Speaker Change: So $1 9 million down 98% year over year.
Speaker Change: Module shipments were 25, two gigawatts in the fourth quarter in line with our guidance as over 50% of modulus, where ships that you are the domestic markets, where the price where lawyer and the proportion of higher priced overseas others declined sequentially.
Speaker Change: Both module S. P and profit decreased sequentially gross margin was 316% in the fourth quarter compared to 15.7% you know third quarter net loss was U S dollars $64 9 million compared to net income of $3 2 million in the third quarter.
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Speaker Change: In 2000 and for the global Pizza industry, Nintendo faster growth momentum according to <unk>.
Speaker Change: They test you only added installation in China was 277 Gigawatts in 2024, an increase of 28% year over year setting a record hot according to in falling because golf consulting China module exports reached 236, Gigawatts and eat.
Speaker Change: 1024.
Speaker Change: Increased 13% year over year intensify the supply and demand imbalances led to a downward trend and the product's surprises putting profits under pressure in all segments of the industrial chain.
Speaker Change: Return the industry to a healthy development the national authorities took steps to resolve that.
Speaker Change: To resolve the structural imbalance between.
Speaker Change: And the demand is the participation of Ain't that trade associations and the manufacturers in November State Department announced the policies to race entry barrier for new manufacturing capacities reduce export tax rebate and other matters in December the A&P that enterprises sign.
Speaker Change: Self discipline patch aimed to limit a low price competition and are reducing production recently, the MTR C and and you're a.
Speaker Change: That's a policy market based reforms for upgrade of renewable energy pricing aimed at promoting high quality industry development.
Speaker Change: By industry yourself disciplined and a supportive policies price in the industry as well as other module prices have stabilized and started to rebound.
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Speaker Change: We're committed to maintaining our technology leadership through a continuous on the investments and the mass production of our innovative products.
Speaker Change: At the end of the first quarter. The average mass produce the N type cell efficiency reached nearly 26, 5% and the efficiency on the highest performing in protection life. Our accordion area reached over 26 point to 7%. In addition, we have recently initiated the production of a third.
The generation <unk> products, but it's large scale production expected by the end of this year.
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Speaker Change: We continue to face out basically the production capacity, while further enhancing our global manufacturing capabilities at other chassis and type Stoker factory will take ongoing efforts to reduce costs and improve efficiency through the introduction of automated equipment and process optimization.
Speaker Change: Two gigawatts N type module production capacity in the U S is operating at nearly full capacity well ever study Arabia project is progressing steadily.
Speaker Change: And we'll continue to strengthen our localized the supply that we are confident in our ability to meet customer demand for locally produced high quality and it's double products flight and services.
Speaker Change: Zoe jobs with Jim.
Speaker Change: Well my illusion of galloping torrential pop with adding one young puts US report on you Jim.
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Speaker Change: So well watch and wait so Chico MSCI, Bob Yes, with your opinions on what my guess you Danielle.
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Speaker Change: Recently, we were included in the US and then people logos to southern and twenty-five sustainability yearbook as the only solar module company and the latest corporate sustainability assessments C. As a result, but at least the biopsy unimpeachable basic car to 16 nine points ranking first.
Speaker Change: The top five PV module companies and in addition, we received a triple B rating for the second consecutive year in the MSCI ESG ratings. This recognition is a strong testament to our continuous efforts E. S T.
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Speaker Change: Michelle.
Speaker Change: You're saying how about that.
Speaker Change: We place great importance on intellectual property protection protection and are committed to maintaining our global technology called leadership through our extensive IP portfolio by the end of the fourth quarter, we had a built a strong patent portfolio, including 462 granted.
Speaker Change: Competent, making us one of the worlds, leading holders of top car related to patent avatar.
Speaker Change: However, topkapi attended Pasquale covers a substantial number of countries around the region, including the United States, Europe, Japan, Australia, China recently, where do we stay with the patent infringement claims from some competitors. After a preliminary review they believe this like allegations like both fat.
Speaker Change: Sure and let the legal merits, we are actively responding and collaboration with legal advisers and technical experts at the industry leader in innovation, we fully respect intellectual property rights and edible cade full fare computation well firmly defending ever they didn't merchant right.
Speaker Change: The interest we believe that upholding this principles is essential for the healthy Nevada.
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Speaker Change: So I'll jump back in.
Speaker Change: In the short term and some leading PV companies sufficient significant financial losses, the industry and they have entered a deep adjustments period.
Speaker Change: They are slacking competitive of Pos and our efficiency product and the technology.
The integration capabilities and global expansion.
Speaker Change: And capabilities are likely to be fished out, helping restore supply and demand balance to the industry.
Speaker Change: In the medium to long term according to IEA data renewable renewable energy is expected to supply half of global.
Speaker Change: These are two demand by 2030 with wind and solar PV generation doubling their share to 30%. This highlights the vast growth potential of the pizza industry with our extensive marketing insights and strong execution capabilities, we have successfully navigated industry cycles.
Speaker Change: Several times, we are confident this trend will continue to help us overcome future challenges and the provision of us strongly for emerging opportunities.
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Speaker Change: Turning over to Denis I would like to go over our guidance for the first quarter on our fourth year of a thousand down 25 by the end of 2000 and the 25, we expect the mass produced the N type cell efficiency to reach approximately 27% were taking a more cautious approach to capacity expansion in this year.
Speaker Change: Upgrades to top Comm technology. There is no newly added capacity, we expect the oven and you woke production capacity for mono wafers cause ourselves and the solar modules to rich 100 end of 'twenty 95, and the 130 gigawatts respectively by the end of this year, we expect the module shipments to be between 60.
Speaker Change: <unk> to 18 gigawatt for the first quarter of 2025.
Speaker Change: Between 85, and 100 Gigawatts for the full year 2025, well also continue to optimize our assets and the liabilities structure, while maintaining a healthy cash reserve further strengthening our resilience to risk.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Mickey: Thank you Mickey.
Speaker Change: We're proud to have reached a historical high quarterly and annual module shipments and leveraging our global sales network in the paradox space.
Speaker Change: Total shipments were approximately $26 five gigawatt in the first quarter, which module shipment accounting for 95%.
Speaker Change: Annual module shipments were at 93 gigawatt ranking first in the industry.
Speaker Change: This marks a six year in the past decade, we have one global module shipment championship.
Speaker Change: We continue to improve our product efficiency and the quality and they expand our client service network.
Speaker Change: Our brand new inflows continued to grow.
Speaker Change: But at the end of fourth quarter, we were leaving the industry. So first enterprise to reach tomorrow.
Speaker Change: Accumulative module shipment of over 300 gigawatt, covering nearly 200 countries and the regions.
Speaker Change: In terms of the geographic mix for the full year, 60% of our modules shipped overseas primarily in Europe, India Pacific.
Speaker Change: And Middle East Africa.
Speaker Change: To North America accounted for around 8% in line with our expectations.
Speaker Change: We further optimized our production, which took a portion of the new series exceeding 95% fourth quarter on the nearly 90% for the full year.
Speaker Change: Recently, I would rank number one in the global solar module manufacturing ranking in 2025 report published by Wood Mackenzie.
Speaker Change: In addition, we were ranked as the most of the Banc home Solar module company into 2020 for PV module capability survey by Bloomberg.
We were also only solar module company to receive 100% to reaching.
Speaker Change: Reaching this years survey.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: All evidence of recognizing all the stable financial conditions as well as the high efficiency and reliable products and our services by our global customer financial institutions and other industry stakeholders.
Speaker Change: In 2024.
Speaker Change: The newly either 277 deepwater in domestic installation exceeded expectations at least 700 gigawatt in December.
Speaker Change: Historical highs.
Speaker Change: Looking forward to 2025 newly added installations in China are expected to be 270 gigawatt or higher on the global PV demand is expected to be around 700 gigawatt.
Speaker Change: We'll continue to leverage our advantages in product spreads patent portfolios and our global channels to provide better products and services to our global crisis.
Speaker Change: I will turn the call over to Pat.
Pat: We are pleased to report that our total module shipments.
Speaker Change: 833% year over year.
Pat: Challenging years.
Speaker Change: Motive.
Speaker Change: And in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Control over cost and expenses, reducing operating expenses.
Speaker Change: By about seven.
Speaker Change: 7% sequentially. In addition, we improved operating efficiency.
Speaker Change: Demand, our asset and liability structure as part of our operating cash flow.
Speaker Change: But in the fourth quarter, our asset liability ratio was 72%.
Speaker Change: A significant improvement from 75% at the beginning of the year.
Speaker Change: Our cash and cash equivalents.
Speaker Change: Well three 8 billion, we will continue to optimize.
Speaker Change: Our asset and liability structure maintain healthy cash reserves.
Speaker Change: In the new year.
Speaker Change: Further strengthening.
Speaker Change: Resilience to risks.
Speaker Change: Let me go into more details now.
Speaker Change: Total revenue.
Speaker Change: Two point.
Speaker Change: H Street billing.
Speaker Change: Tom.
Speaker Change: 15.
Speaker Change: Percent sequentially on them.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: 7% year over year gross margin.
Speaker Change: Three 6% compared with <unk>.
Speaker Change: <unk> 15.
Speaker Change: 1% in the third quarter of two.
Speaker Change: 24, and two 5% in the fourth quarter of 2003.
Speaker Change: Sequential and year over year decreases.
Speaker Change: Mainly due to the decrease in average selling price of solar modules.
Speaker Change: Total operating expenses.
Speaker Change: We're about.
Speaker Change: $380 million.
Speaker Change: Don about.
Speaker Change: 26 percentage.
Speaker Change: Sequentially.
Speaker Change: Year over year.
Speaker Change: The sequential and a year over year decreases were mainly due to the decrease in shipping cost.
Speaker Change: Total operating expenses accounted for 13% of <unk>.
Speaker Change: Total revenues in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: 24, compared to 15% in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: Operating loss.
Speaker Change: Lost margin.
Speaker Change: It was 9.8.
Speaker Change: 8% in the fourth quarter.
Speaker Change: Compared with operating profit margin of <unk>, 3% in the third quarter.
Speaker Change: Now brief you on our 2000 and for full year financial results.
Speaker Change: Total module shipments.
Speaker Change: We're 90.
Speaker Change: Two points.
Speaker Change: Hey, seven gigawatt up.
Speaker Change: 83% year over year total revenues.
Speaker Change: We're toward six 4 billion down 22% year over year.
Speaker Change: For the full year 'twenty four.
Speaker Change: Profit.
One 4 billion.
Speaker Change: The decrease of.
Speaker Change: 47 year over year gross margin was about.
Speaker Change: 11% compared to 16% in the 'twenty three the year over year decrease was mainly attributed to the decrease in the average selling price of modules.
Speaker Change: Total operating expenses.
Speaker Change: We're one point.
Speaker Change: Sterling.
Speaker Change: Up about 4% year over year. The increase was mainly attributed to the write off of net book value of equipment, resulting from the fire exit in Shanghai Province.
Speaker Change: Which was partially offset by the estimated insurance proceed from the fire accident.
Speaker Change: And also an increase in impairment loss of long lived assets.
Speaker Change: Operating loss margin for full year.
Speaker Change: Well, three 7% compared with operating profit margin of <unk>.
Speaker Change: 5%.
Speaker Change: Before year last year.
Speaker Change: 23.
Speaker Change: Excluding the impact from a change in fair value of notes.
Speaker Change: And a change in fair value of long term investment.
Speaker Change: Also our share based compensation expenses.
Speaker Change: The net loss, resulting from a <unk> accident.
Speaker Change: In Shanxi Province.
Speaker Change: In April 24, and.
Speaker Change: Impairment of long lived assets.
Speaker Change: Adjusted net income attributed to Genco Solar holdings ordinary shareholders was about seven to $8 3 million in 2004.
Speaker Change: Moving to the balance sheet.
Speaker Change: At the end of the fourth quarter of cash and cash equivalents.
Speaker Change: We're $3 8 billion and a significant.
Speaker Change: Increased compared with $3 2 billion at the end of third quarter of 24.
Speaker Change: And $2 7 billion at the end of fourth quarter of 'twenty three.
Speaker Change: That's another days were 88 days compared with 90 days in.
Speaker Change: Third quarter.
Speaker Change: Oh 2004.
Speaker Change: Inventory turnover days were 57 days compared with 66 days in the third quarter of 2004 as a result of improved operating efficiency.
Speaker Change: At the end of the fourth quarter total debt.
Speaker Change: Was 556 billion compared to 4.3.
Speaker Change: Three 8 billion at the end of the fourth quarter of 'twenty three net debt was $1 76 billion compared to one point.
Speaker Change: Six 3 billion at the end of the fourth quarter. After this rate.
Speaker Change: This concludes our prepared remarks, we are now happy to take your questions. Operator. Please proceed.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: If you wish to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced if you wish to cancel your request. Please press star two.
Speaker Change: You're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question.
Speaker Change: Your first question comes from Brian Lee with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Tyler bisset: Hey, guys. This is Tyler bisset on for Brian Thanks for taking our questions.
Speaker Change: We saw the U S Department of Commerce recently increased import tariffs from Vietnam. So can you share what you're embedding in your guidance and the potential impact of these tariffs on your margins as well as any changes to your pricing strategy in the U S. This year.
Tyler bisset: How are you.
Tyler bisset: Replace your wish tariff you're mentioning his address.
Speaker Change: A D V D R.
Tyler bisset: Or something else you were referring to.
Speaker Change: The ADC with new ones.
Speaker Change: Yes, so <unk> I think with us.
Speaker Change: We have prepared all the solutions or.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: Currently we are not suffering on the <unk>. So we are.
Speaker Change: Our current.
Speaker Change: Utilization.
Speaker Change: S factories.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: And also we are utilizing.
Speaker Change: The other supply chain to try to provide solutions to U S market without paying.
Speaker Change: Additional costs on the ADC with your targets. So currently.
Speaker Change: We don't expect does that will bring us a big negative.
Speaker Change: The impact on our markets. However.
Speaker Change: So the amount of U S is so key factors used to the Montney in U S market is weak.
Speaker Change: It's probably it will bring the whole market had with on the margin side, but.
Speaker Change: But it's not quite related to the ADC reduce.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Great and then just on that topic can you share your expectations for U S shipments this year.
Speaker Change: Whether you might be missing.
Speaker Change: Given the high return.
Speaker Change: I don't think that got you to a full picture of your questions, but I guess your question is more about us.
Speaker Change: Goodbye to U S I'll.
Speaker Change: Now, it's too early to define our shipment volumes to USB purse.
Speaker Change: Policies.
Speaker Change: It's still uncertain. So we have heard a lot of numerous which regarding this trade barriers regarding this.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Our ace et cetera, So we're still expecting a reasonable rich, but how far it goes we will try to define that once the policy is clear.
Speaker Change: We can have more clarity on that thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from Philip Shen with Roth Capital. Please go ahead.
Philip Shen: Hey, guys just following up on the recent.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Hmm.
Speaker Change: CEB.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: So you mentioned just now that the.
Speaker Change: You can serve the U S with an alternative supply chain can you give us a little more clarity on that.
Speaker Change: Would you serve.
Speaker Change: The U S.
Speaker Change: Saudi Arabia running yet my sense is it might be might take a little more time. So just curious if you can share more color there. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Yeah. So I think there are.
Speaker Change: Still quite a lot of availability.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Capacities outside.
Speaker Change: CVD scope, which is I think four countries in southeast Asia. So.
Speaker Change: Looking to the map definitely I don't either one to measure any particular countries or some.
Speaker Change: <unk> named but definitely we see quite a several availability is.
Speaker Change: On the market, which kind of supply to the U S market, which.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Can be a short term solution so for Jacobs.
Speaker Change: Strategy, we don't plan to invest.
Speaker Change: That's all.
Speaker Change: But we.
Speaker Change: We probably will hire some Oems to try to utilize the short term short time opportunity together with our IP streams.
Speaker Change: Okay got it thank you.
Speaker Change: And then shifting over to.
Speaker Change: Pricing was wondering if you could use.
Speaker Change: Well actually let's put some margins.
Speaker Change: In terms of.
Speaker Change: Your Q4 margin I heard is the weakness was driven primarily by price and maybe greater mix of China.
Speaker Change: So can you share what your expectation is for Q1 margin and then how you think that margin trends in Q2 and Q3.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Tony: Phil This is Tony.
Tony: In terms of the outlook for the gross margin and <unk>.
Tony: The Q4, the fourth quarter of last years.
Tony: It's a downward trend right and a lot of shipments in China.
Tony: And.
Tony: The supply and demand imbalance and opposed to the monthly price under pressure in the first quarter.
Susan: <unk> Susan.
Tony: The solar sectors.
We expect the gross margin.
Tony: We all continue to be moderately declined.
Tony: With the improvement in <unk>.
Tony: Gradually we expect Guangzhou to advance.
Tony: Turning to supply and demand side.
Tony: As well as China's push demand in the second quarter.
Tony: The module prices gradually.
Tony: We improve so we expect the second quarter.
Tony: There is high high opportunities.
Tony: Gross margin will improve moderate severe.
Tony: If you look for the long term.
Tony: Active.
Tony: Sure.
Tony: Sony believes the solar sector is sensitive bottom sides.
Tony: The top.
Tony: Top tier companies.
Tony: Uh huh.
Tony: We're disciplined.
Tony: <unk>.
Tony: You mean in terms of output in tone in terms of pricing strategy, but it's still it takes time for the brand and so.
Tony: Particular from supply sides for the long term perspective.
Tony: We.
Tony: Still optimistic.
Tony: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you Charlie I want to make sure I heard you right did you say Q1 margins can be lower than Q4.
Tony: Yes, Youre right.
Speaker Change: So thanks to them and we expect.
Tony: Several orders we sign these.
Tony: As far as smartphone last year.
Tony: And then it's even lower and volume is lower and the gross margin rate, but as you know.
Tony: Nowhere in the first quarter.
Tony: Got it because we have negative margins as well.
Tony: <unk> bye.
Tony: But improve in the second quarter.
Tony: While talking about the margin.
Tony: No we're talking about gross margins.
Speaker Change: I'm sorry.
Speaker Change: Gross margin, yes on the Q1 is slightly lower than Q4 and to improve.
Speaker Change: And the mother's maiden in second quarter.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you one last housekeeping question.
Speaker Change: What's your expectation for Capex for 2025.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Hello.
Speaker Change: Alright apparel remarks.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah first capex rate.
Speaker Change: And 25.
Speaker Change: Spectators, so it will be.
Speaker Change: Much lower than this year.
Speaker Change: Approximately 42 5 billion.
Speaker Change: RMB.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from Alan Lau with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Alan Lau: Thanks for taking my question.
Speaker Change: So I would like to follow up.
Speaker Change: There was a question on margin so.
Speaker Change: Because.
Speaker Change: The margin in <unk> was affected by a couple of things like a higher China shipment.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Module prices was lower so <unk> expect that to be better, but how about second half considering.
Speaker Change: Before we were discussing that might be more U S shipments in the second half.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: Utilization rates are likely to be higher in second half as well, we'd like to know whats the view after <unk>. It comes off the margin.
Speaker Change: It depends on the market situation in the second half a year, but we expect maybe another bit softer demand.
Speaker Change: Third quarter after the push push demand from China.
Speaker Change: Pick up fourth quarter, but the most important things.
Speaker Change: The capacity.
Speaker Change: The comparative result industries and.
Speaker Change: Demand gradually pick up.
Speaker Change: Including the U S. U S. Now the policy is uncertain and it's not only the ADC reading into it.
Speaker Change: The tariffs with typical curve and on the tariffs on.
Speaker Change: Certainly it is the we expect after the policy to be.
Speaker Change: Finalized the us from a long term perspective, we're optimistic given the.
Speaker Change: The weighted innovations and leading significant demand says it is.
Speaker Change: For the short term there first half of the year.
Speaker Change: And we expect a relatively soft.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Alright, if possible.
Speaker Change: It's going to improve.
Speaker Change: After the.
Speaker Change: Finalization on the policies.
Speaker Change: Yes. Thank you.
Speaker Change: And following on.
Speaker Change: The previous.
Buyback share buyback plan, we'd like to know after the.
Speaker Change: The result announcement right now.
Speaker Change: Will the company stock buyback.
Speaker Change: And also Oh.
Speaker Change: That'd be another period of Oh blackout after 31st of March with just a couple of days from now.
Speaker Change: So how does the management consider in terms of the buyback pace.
Speaker Change: And is it like to the issuance of TV out of the Asia subsidiary.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: This is really linked to the.
The GDR.
Speaker Change: The tables and.
Speaker Change: We plan to increase total shareholder.
Speaker Change: Returns this year.
Speaker Change: Up to 200 million you asked owners.
Speaker Change: And including the dividend.
Speaker Change: The repurchases shares.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: We believe we have sufficient cash.
Speaker Change: Positions.
Speaker Change: Including.
Speaker Change: The U S.
Speaker Change: Holding companies as well.
Speaker Change: One point.
Speaker Change: I'll hand tool demand in U S dollar terms for the ecosystem the investment portfolio.
Speaker Change: Financial investment, we have roughly I think one point, while handset demand and really trying to divest.
Speaker Change: The ecosystem.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: And then in terms of the timing and.
Speaker Change: It's a very short time window.
Speaker Change: This quarter, because it's going to be.
Speaker Change: Switching to the end of the first quarter.
Speaker Change: So I don't believe we have sufficient days too.
Speaker Change: To start the process of the Sears.
Speaker Change: This quarter.
Speaker Change: So Q1 earnings release.
Speaker Change: And I think we.
Speaker Change: Thinking of.
Speaker Change: Both proposals as David and repurchase our shares.
Speaker Change: Okay. So so.
Speaker Change: Just to confirm first of all it's not related to Gd outright.
Speaker Change: Yes, yes.
Speaker Change: I don't we don't believe thats related to <unk> each year.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: The issue.
And gentlemen, Germany.
Speaker Change: Now the U S.
Speaker Change: None.
Speaker Change: It is not as relevant for you guys.
Speaker Change: We plan to direct investment the ecosystem investments.
Speaker Change: We have some portfolio companies, which has the investors each year and we've taken a minority interest to return cash balances and investment.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: First of all the company has already has $100 million Holdco and secondly, we'd like to know if there any lockup period in terms of the minority.
Speaker Change: Our financial investment in Asia.
Speaker Change: Sometimes there may be a lockup period et cetera.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Some of the investments.
Speaker Change: It did have some more kind of theory, but some reinvestment rates trying to do the hybrid sale and we have.
Speaker Change: Completed two primary <unk> one one.
Speaker Change: Private sale and one property sale around $10 million last August.
Speaker Change: The first quarter.
Speaker Change: Some of that investment.
Speaker Change: Able to sale until the fourth quarter this year.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: On the our schedule.
Speaker Change: Thanks, guys correctly I think the.
Speaker Change: The next question is about the China supply side.
Speaker Change: Phone policies, because there has been a lot of discussions on government policies would like to know.
Speaker Change: The companys fuel given that genco is the leader.
Speaker Change: The self discipline.
Speaker Change: Initiative I'd like to know do you see any policies coming out.
Speaker Change: From the government as well.
Speaker Change: We are not in a position to comment on the details.
Speaker Change: Again I think the.
Speaker Change: Silver sector, the <unk> sector I'm, assuming the government keeps that mine.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: I think the last national pump.
Speaker Change: MPC meetings, there is some kind of a general release from the government.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Speaker Change: We would expect some supply there are some policies coming out.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: My last question is about updates on Saudi.
Speaker Change: Capacity is it on schedule to be completed by first quarter 'twenty those fixed and.
Speaker Change: How has the order saw.
Speaker Change: On track that at that plant.
Speaker Change: Saudi the Super factories is France is again.
Speaker Change: Move to 14.
Speaker Change: Two to do the globalization and walkways.
Speaker Change: I'm doing which industries.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: And then I'd say.
Speaker Change: The preparation stage.
Yeah nano broken.
Speaker Change: And then we target to Brexit, Guam, and the second quarter.
Speaker Change: The responses are.
The fully operational on the <unk> pump will be the end of next year.
Charlie: Thank you I'll pass along thanks, a lot Charlie.
Speaker Change: Your next question will come from Rajeev <unk> with <unk> capital. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Good morning.
Speaker Change: A couple of questions. The first is about market share.
Speaker Change: Last year 2020 pool was around 600 to 625 Gigawatts.
Speaker Change: And you can confirm that number and this year, we're expecting 700 Gigawatts then I'm curious why you think that your market share this year.
Lee: Lee L B.
Speaker Change: Slightly down or not more than flat from last year.
Speaker Change: Youre, saying that your market share was slightly down so could you elaborate on that please.
Speaker Change: Rajeev I think you know.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: We didn't look at it from that perspective, we did as expected.
Speaker Change: The total market size.
Speaker Change: Models it is not insignificant.
Speaker Change: And this year.
Speaker Change: And once we guide is kind of very broad range 85, Gigawatts to 100 Gigawatts.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: You know the indices.
Under the consolidation stage.
Speaker Change: The more important things.
Speaker Change: We keep the investment on the technology.
Speaker Change: The bid is and.
Speaker Change: Two is to make genco capabilities.
Speaker Change: Capabilities. So it goes through the cycles. So we don't believe that is so important.
Speaker Change: We put six to some fixed numbers of market share.
Speaker Change: After the consolidations I think zynga will be good positions too.
Speaker Change: Two increase in market shares. So I think our marketing department has a long term regimes and we are able to.
Speaker Change: <unk> <unk> was only a 5% global market share from the long term perspective.
Speaker Change: Okay, So youre, saying that even though in the near term your market share may not go up but you are basically letting the people who have the highest cost and the highest losses.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: What type of what they can produce this year and then you'll be back in subsequent years.
Speaker Change: Another question is on depreciation could you give the number for the fourth quarter and for 2025.
Speaker Change: Yes, maybe Tom will go into your numbers.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes. Thank you first question.
Speaker Change: We have a number would be approximately 1.6% to $1 7 billion.
Speaker Change: RMB.
Speaker Change: In Q4.
Speaker Change: And can you give the number for the expectation for <unk>.
Speaker Change: Florida by 2025.
Rick: Rick as well.
Speaker Change: This number.
Speaker Change: Still on.
Speaker Change: He is still pending for chegg.
Speaker Change: Oh.
Speaker Change: Or are there 2025.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Our final question can you talk about.
Speaker Change: Free cash flow expectations for 2025.
Speaker Change: And in Japan.
Speaker Change: From the operating cash flow perspective.
Speaker Change: And we target to be positive and this year you understand them.
Speaker Change: It's still a challenging year, particularly and we believe the first half of the year.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: From an operational perspective.
Speaker Change: Try to let's.
Speaker Change: They improve the.
Speaker Change: Cash.
Speaker Change: Useful.
We are currently operating expenses and to achieve at least the policy operating cash flows.
Speaker Change: And therefore, the contact center, we estimate for bidding.
Speaker Change: RMB and which is focused on the operator.
Speaker Change: Top content and make sure <unk> seen the best position to indeed.
Speaker Change: From a product perspective.
Speaker Change: So there are some automation.
Speaker Change: It's amazing upgrades to.
Speaker Change: Further reduce our production cost.
Speaker Change: So back to your pricing and free cash flow, maybe not next year, but not so significant and the.
Speaker Change: If the you know the out.
Speaker Change: I also look on the supply demand balance.
Speaker Change: Ban situation improve.
Speaker Change: Hmm.
Speaker Change: Significantly we expressed to you now.
Speaker Change: We will achieve.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Better numbers.
Speaker Change: We paid.
Speaker Change: Conservative approach and.
Speaker Change: Last year we.
Speaker Change: Indeed.
Speaker Change: Very good operating cash flow.
Speaker Change: Roughly eight.
Speaker Change: 5 billion RMB.
Speaker Change: Versus roughly 9 billion Capex free.
Free cash flow.
Speaker Change: Nate.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Kind of the near term it is zero.
Speaker Change: And this year, so anything anytime soon.
Speaker Change: Refocus sound good key operating matrix operating cash flows.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Eric Sabic questions at this time and that does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating you may now disconnect.