Q1 2025 Enbridge Inc Earnings Call
Like our new good morning, and welcome to the Enbridge first quarter 'twenty 25 financial results Conference call.
Rebecca Morley: My name is Rebecca Morley and I'm, the vice President of Investor Relations.
Rebecca Morley: Joining me this morning are Greg Ebel, President and CEO.
Speaker Change: Pat Barry Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker Change: And the heads of each of our business units, calling grunting liquids pipeline.
Cynthia Hansen: Cynthia Hansen gas transmission.
Speaker Change: Shell heritage gas distribution and storage and Matthew Ackman renewable power.
Speaker Change: At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. Following the presentation. We will conduct a question and answer session for the investment community.
Speaker Change: If you would like to ask a question. During this time simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If he would like to withdraw your question simply press star followed by the number one.
Speaker Change: Please note that this conference is being recorded.
Speaker Change: As per usual this call is being webcast and I encourage those listening on the phone to follow along with the supporting slides.
Speaker Change: We will try to keep the call to roughly one hour and in order to answer as many questions as possible, we will be limiting questions to one plus a single follow up if necessary.
Speaker Change: We will be prioritizing questions from the investment community. So if you're a member of the media. Please direct your inquiries to our communications team, who will be happy to respond.
Speaker Change: As always our Investor relations team will be available following the call for any follow up questions.
Speaker Change: On to slide two where I'll remind you that we'll be referring to forward looking information on today's presentation and question and answer period.
Speaker Change: By its nature. This information contains forecasts assumptions and expectations about future outcomes, which are subject to the risks and uncertainties outlined here and discussed more fully in our public disclosure filings.
Speaker Change: We will also be referring to non-GAAP measures summarized below and with that I'll turn it over to Greg evil.
Greg: Thanks, very much Rebecca and good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us on the call today.
Speaker Change: As all of you know markets have seen significant financial and commodity price volatility to start the year, but despite the unique challenges 2025 has already presented and bridges operating from a position of strength.
Speaker Change: We are actively working with policymakers and regulators to advocate for new infrastructure on both sides of the border that will serve customers throughout North America and meet increasing global demand through growing exports are large diversified footprint continues to deliver safe reliable and affordable energy to our customers.
Speaker Change: Our low risk utility like business model is driving predictable financial results and I'm pleased to say that the first quarter was a record for enbridge.
Speaker Change: We're going to start today with a brief recap of our first quarter highlights and will then review the team success on execution and continued growth and from there I'll provide an update on each of our four core franchises and then Pat who will review our financial results and discuss our capital allocation priorities.
Pat Barry: Lastly, I'll close the presentation with a few comments on our first choice value proposition before we open the call for your questions.
Pat Barry: During the first quarter, we delivered record EBITDA DCF per share and earnings per share driven by contributions from the U S. Utilities, we acquired last year and strong volumes across the business overall.
Pat Barry: We don't expect tariffs or global trade war to have a material impact on our current operations and are therefore, very confident reaffirming our 2025 financial guidance.
Pat Barry: We remain committed to maintaining our debt to EBITDA metric between four and a half times to five times and expect that that leverage ratio to improve throughout the year as we realize full year contributions from the acquired U S. Utilities are assets were highly utilized during the quarter with records on.
Pat Barry: The mainline and at Ingleside.
Pat Barry: We announced an open season on Flanagan South as part of the first phase of our mainline optimization plans and we're receiving strong shipper interest. So far we look forward to providing you an update on our progress in the coming months.
Pat Barry: In our renewables business, we brought the Orange Grove Solar Facility into service on time and on by just showcasing the quick psycho-capital-efficient nature of our solar investments [inaudible]
Pat Barry: We also sanctioned the traverse pipeline earlier this quarter upon completion in 2027 traverse will offer bi directional service between Kt and Agua Dulce, along the Gulf Coast.
Pat Barry: We are making great progress on the opportunity set we laid out for you at Investor day, and anticipate future announcements in 2025 and through 2026th to service growing natural gas demand from data centers coal to gas generation switching and the LNG supply.
Pat Barry: To those we've announced these past few months.
Pat Barry: Now, let's put all of this together and talk about the great progress we've made executing on disciplined growth across our business.
Pat Barry: Strong demand for safe reliable and affordable energy has allowed us to secure a $3 billion of accretive low risk projects year to date.
Pat Barry: In addition to the projects I just mentioned, we also announced that we plan to invest up to $2 billion in the mainline to support operational efficiencies system reliability and extend the life of the asset.
Pat Barry: And we sanctioned Birch Grove, which is an approximately 180 million cubic feet per day expansion on our T. North system that will support West Coast LNG.
Pat Barry: I'm very happy with the progress we've made thus far this year as we've continued to sanction projects and add visibility to the growth outlook shared at our Investor day in March.
Pat Barry: We are really seeing and we'll continue to see our low risk resilient business model shy.
Pat Barry: We have industry, leading diversification and cash flow quality, which produces stable predictable results in all economic and commodity cycles are strategically positioned demand pull assets are expected to remain highly utilized despite the ongoing global trade conflicts and we expect tariffs will have a negligible.
Pat Barry: <unk> on our financial results.
Pat Barry: We've not seen a material impact on our input costs for projects already sanctioned and we'll remain disciplined as we continue to monitor the evolving trade situations.
Pat Barry: The diversification of our business has been key to our success with the addition of St Premier U S gas utilities and new assets placed into service. We now have over 200 asset streams and businesses generating steady high quality cash flows.
Pat Barry: Our commercial structure has never been more low risk with over 98% of EBITDA protected by regulated or take or pay frameworks.
Pat Barry: That industry, leading low risk model supports our balance sheet reflected in our investment grade credit rating and minimal counterparty risk.
Pat Barry: We have negligible commodity price exposure and over 80% of our EBITDA has inflation protection with built in escalators or regulatory means to recover.
Pat Barry: So with Enbridge, you get a safe and reliable investment with attractive growth opportunities.
Pat Barry: Now, let's jump into the business updates for the quarter.
Pat Barry: It was a strong start to the year and liquids with mainline delivering record first quarter volumes of almost $3 2 million barrels per day in.
Pat Barry: In order to keep the existing mainline as available and reliable as possible and at the same time extend its useful life, we're planning to invest up to $2 billion to continue delivering first choice customer service and optimizing capacity.
Pat Barry: That capital will earn a return under the mainline toll settlement framework within our 11% to 14% ROE color, providing strong risk adjusted returns for Enbridge.
Pat Barry: We continue to advance mainline optimization initiatives and expect the first phase to reach.
Pat Barry: Later this year.
Pat Barry: That phase includes 150000 barrels a day of incremental capacity and includes a downstream expansion on Flanagan south of which I spoke about earlier as.
Pat Barry: As mentioned at Enbridge day, we are also advancing other opportunities to build incremental egress out of the western Canadian sedimentary basin as the growth outlook remains strong with approximately 1 million barrels per day of supply expected to come on stream by 2035.
Pat Barry: South of the border Ingleside recorded another quarterly volume record benefiting from the increased operational capacity that came with the docs, we acquired last year.
Pat Barry: We will continue to develop the site and expect to place another $2 5 million barrels of storage into service later this year.
Pat Barry: On the gas transmission front, our growing footprint puts us in an excellent position to serve increasing natural gas demand from new LNG facilities coal to gas transitions and data centers.
Pat Barry: We continue to build our Permian franchise with our announcement to acquire a 10% interest in the matter horn pipeline for cash consideration of approximately $300 million.
Pat Barry: This two five Bcf per day operating asset is complementary to the traverse pipeline, we previously sanctioned with our partners in April.
Pat Barry: These announcements enhance our Permian Super system and provides shippers with optionality to access the best demand markets across the U S Gulf Coast.
Pat Barry: Both pipelines are contracted under long term take or pay arrangements with investment grade counterparties.
Pat Barry: We received FERC approval for original expansion last month, enabling the coal to gas transition of the Kingston combined cycle facility in Tennessee with in service expected in 2027.
Pat Barry: We continue to experience strong demand for our U S Gulf Coast gas storage assets and recently completed open seasons at Tres Palacios, Egan, and Moss Bluff and are engaging with customers around potential future growth opportunities lastly.
Pat Barry: Lastly, we previously announced an expansion of our <unk> system to serve growing LNG demand off the Canadian West Coast.
Pat Barry: Now, let me illustrate the growing Permian footprint that we've established since our initial investment only a year ago.
Pat Barry: Today, our Permian natural gas franchise provides up to five Bcf per day of egress from the basin with another two five Bcf per day expected to come online beginning in 2026 via the Black home pipeline.
Pat Barry: The recently sanctioned by directional traverse pipeline will provide transportation between Katy, Texas and agriculture by 2027, ensuring customers have optionality between key market hubs.
Pat Barry: The DPR system provides three five Bcf a day of intra basin capacity and is a key supply conduit for Whistler and Matterhorn.
Pat Barry: We also have an interest in two bcf of operating storage capacity at law and are connected to Corpus Christi LNG through the ADC pipeline.
Pat Barry: After we close Matterhorn Enbridge will have acquired 2 billion of operating assets and added over $1 billion of growth projects, which are expected to be built at roughly six times EBITDA multiples.
Pat Barry: And in 2026 after black homes enter service, we expect to have an equity interest in 30% of all the Permian egress capacity.
Pat Barry: Our investment in this portfolio positions enbridge to capture growing demand for Permian gas across the U S. Gulf Coast and provides even more embedded growth opportunities that will leverage our scale and existing footprint.
Pat Barry: Now, let's turn to our gas utility business. This is an exciting first year of us owning our U S utilities and we are in rate cases in the four major jurisdictions and look forward to working with Allstate holders to deliver safe reliable and affordable energy.
Pat Barry: As we continue to grow our utilities constructive regulatory outcomes are very much informing our capital allocation strategy.
Pat Barry: Given the increasingly rich opportunity set across all our business units, we will allocate capital based on the best risk adjusted returns, including the economic and regulatory environment.
Pat Barry: In Ontario, we recently received permission to begin construction on the Saint Laurent pipeline replacement program, which is expected to be completed in stages and will be fully in service by the end of 2026.
Pat Barry: Moving to the U S. We expect to receive a decision on our Ohio rate case in the second half of this year and we filed rate case applications in North Carolina, and Utah in April and May respectively.
Pat Barry: We expect rates to be effective by year end, ensuring fair returns for our shareholders and supporting continued investment in critical energy infrastructure through the back half of the decade.
Pat Barry: Now I'll just jump on to renewable power. The 130 megawatt Orange Grove Solar recently entered service on time and on budget and it's now generating electricity for the ERCOT power zone.
Pat Barry: Between Orange Grove in the first stage of Sequoia, we expect to place over 500 megawatts of solar into service. This year entirely backstopped by investment grade Egypt customers.
Pat Barry: Given the unprecedented demand for power generation across North America. We also anticipate further announcements over the next year driven by data center electricity needs.
Pat Barry: The policy landscape for renewables as dynamic, but we think we are well positioned with our portfolio of late stage development projects as always we will stick to our capital discipline and only approve projects that meet our risk and return hurdles.
In our European portfolio Calvados wind continues to make progress with new pilot installations and technical work ongoing.
Pat Barry: Now I will pass it off the path to review our financial performance.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Craig and good morning, everyone 2025 is off to a great start we posted a new quarterly records across all metrics compared to the first quarter of 2024, adjusted EBIT was up 18% DCF per share up 6% and earnings per share is up 12%.
Speaker Change: In liquids mainline volumes and annual toll escalators led to higher results versus 2024.
Speaker Change: Gas transmission revised rates at Algonquin, Texas, Eastern and Maritimes northeast drove higher contributions across our large U S gas transmission pipes.
Speaker Change: Venice extension entered service at the end of 2024, and the Whistler JV and DVR system acquisitions are also providing the expected incremental contributions year over year.
Speaker Change: Notably gas transmission is up 13% from this time last year. Despite the absence of contributions from alliance ox stable, which were sold in 2024.
Speaker Change: Our gas distribution segment realized a full quarter of contributions from all three U S gas utilities acquired in 2020 for driving the majority of the year over year increase within the business.
Speaker Change: And Ontario customer growth and rate increases alongside colder weather resulted in a 170 million of EBITDA increase compared to the first quarter of 2024.
Speaker Change: In renewables lower wind resources at the European offshore assets were partially offset by stronger resources in North America, and we experienced similar levels of investment tax credits between those periods.
Speaker Change: The strong U S. Dollar resulted in larger hedging losses this quarter, but FX was overall still a net tailwind for EBITDA and DCF as the average exchange rate pre hedging was $1 44 for the quarter versus $1 35 in 2024.
Below the line higher financing cost taxes maintenance capital and a slightly higher share count linked to the U S gas utility acquisitions, partly offset the higher EBITDA contributions.
Speaker Change: I'm also pleased to reaffirm our 2025 guidance our resilient business model continues to demonstrate our ability to deliver predictable results in all cycles and as Greg mentioned earlier, we're not seeing any noticeable impacts from tariffs on our financial guidance.
Speaker Change: Strong first quarter performance positions us well to hit our financial guidance for the 20th consecutive year.
Speaker Change: I think the lack of arrows on this slide from a tailwind and headwind perspective speaks to the resilience of our assets, but as we look forward. The recent acquisition of an interest in Matterhorn and forward expectations for U S. Canadian exchange rate, which although fairly heavily hedged could provide some uplift to results.
Speaker Change: We're also keeping an eye on U S interest rates is there a bit higher than we had projected but again not anticipated to be material.
Speaker Change: As a reminder, Q1 and Q4 typically our strongest quarters in the U S utilities further exaggerate that.
Speaker Change: Of our other businesses also have seasonality built into them in our liquids business. We generally have heat restrictions on our pipes in the summers leading to lower volumes.
Speaker Change: The winter months gas transmission experiences far more peak days and similar Enbridge gas, Ontario has the majority of its heating degree days, leading to higher contributions in those same winter months in our renewable.
Speaker Change: <unk> segment, we typically experience higher wind resources in the winter months, which provide higher contributions from October to March.
Speaker Change: Now I'd like to reiterate our long held capital allocation priorities.
Speaker Change: We will continue to maintain our balance sheet strength and targeted debt to EBITDA range of four five to five times.
Sustainably returning capital to shareholders is key to our value proposition and we expect to grow the dividend at a level within our annual DCF per share growth.
Speaker Change: When it comes to new growth you can expect us to remain disciplined and prioritize low multiple brownfield opportunities in utility like projects.
Speaker Change: As we discussed at Enbridge day, we can now self equity fund $9 billion to $10 billion of organic growth projects annually.
Speaker Change: Based on our current secured growth backlog of 28 billion, we expect to deploy $8 billion to $9 billion per year towards that secured growth projects.
Speaker Change: That leaves us with an additional $1 billion to $2 billion that can be opportunistically allocate them, whether that'd be sanctioning new strategic projects accretive tuck in M&A, such as the 10% acquisition of matter harm or reducing debt.
Speaker Change: We will apply a rigorous investment criteria letting the $50 billion of opportunities compete for that excess capacity and prioritizing the highest returning and most strategic projects.
Speaker Change: I wrap up I want to thank all of our team members for delivering yet another outstanding quarter and without Greg I can pass it back to you for closing comments. Thanks very much Pat as you just pointed out is the consistency and resiliency of our business really came through this quarter with record financial results and execution on our disciplined growth strategy or <unk>.
Speaker Change: Industry, leading low risk business model delivers in all economic and commodity cycles and you saw that happen once again in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: I want to highlight our first choice value proposition, which has delivered strong double digit shareholder returns over the past 20 years through thick and thin up cycles and down cycles. We continue to have a utility like business model that generates predictable cash flow that supports our investment grade balance sheet.
Speaker Change: Our financial flexibility allows us to grow our business and sustainably return capital to shareholders. We've increased our dividend for 30 consecutive years and I'm proud of being one of the only dividend aristocrats in our sector.
Speaker Change: We expect to support continued dividend growth by growing our business by 5% per year through the end of the decade on a final note. We refreshed our indigenous reconciliation action plan and we continue to progress our sustainability goals and long standing commitment to support the communities in which we operate with that I'd like to thank all of you for.
Speaker Change: Listening and operator, please open the line for your questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you we will now begin the question and answer session. If you'd like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and joined the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question simply press Star. One again. Your first question comes from the line of Aaron Macneil from TD Cowen Your line is open.
Aaron MacNeil: Good morning, all thanks for taking my questions.
Aaron MacNeil: You mentioned your advocacy efforts in your prepared remarks, and we've got a new Canadian government promising to improve the impact assessment Act.
Also reach the 100 day, Mark with the U S Administration Thats also forecast focused on permitting reform. Greg are you encouraged by what Youre seeing and what needs to happen in your view to get your head around larger infrastructure development.
Speaker Change: Morning, Erinn, thanks, very much for the question.
Speaker Change: Completely enthused about it just starting from the campaigns just the basic conversation here in Canada, but also down south in the United States and the fact that people are now talking about energy energy infrastructure getting stuff done.
Speaker Change: Just a market change here in Canada.
Speaker Change: All of the above approach, which as you know we've structured the company to succeed in that environment. It's great.
Speaker Change: I think the Big question is is that all campaign rhetoric or is that actually going to play out and textually permitting reform, we're starting to see some of that in the United States.
Speaker Change: You know various projects put it on accelerated elements of approvals, obviously very supportive of natural gas liquids.
Speaker Change: LNG exports et cetera, and I'm going to take the Prime Minister in Canada. It is worth it is committed to building energy infrastructure in Canada, becoming a conventional.
Speaker Change: Nonconventional.
Speaker Change: Energy superpower so.
Speaker Change: When you're in 43 states eight provinces.
Speaker Change: <unk> five countries in which the two big ones are the United States and Canada that is a great spot to be so I think you see that in our backlog I think you'll see that in our execution. So I'm excited it's just got to turn into reality.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: We're ready to rock I think in Canada, so someone get them to put the policies in place. So the industry can deliver for both consumers and investors.
Speaker Change: Maybe as a follow on it's obviously great to see that you are continuing to progress towards an FID on the mainline optimization that you outlined at the Investor Day, What do you think is giving your counterparties the confidence to move ahead with the expansion given.
Speaker Change: Or just the broader economic uncertainty and reshape recent OPEC production adds well I'll give you a couple of thoughts and then Collins here too and I think you said I think you mean, our customers are customers.
Speaker Change: They are looking longer term as well look youre going to see ebbs and flows in pricing as we said in our opening comments, there's a lot of volatility.
Speaker Change: But.
Speaker Change: Those shorter term swings, which we watch very closely can have some impact on production, but they don't change the long term view of energy demand and need and Thats, what we built for right we build pipeline.
Speaker Change: The structure and even power infrastructure, but pipelines on the gas and the oil side, so what's happening.
Speaker Change: 12, 18 36 months.
Speaker Change: And so we've got a system that can add on top of of.
Speaker Change: What we have now with very permit life relatively low multiple and relatively modest increments of volume that really create the opportunity so but specifically on <unk>.
Speaker Change: And maybe it's for mainline capital Colin do you want to speak to that yeah, Aaron I think were.
Speaker Change: Hmm.
Colin: Quite confident on the prospects for mainline optimization one.
Colin: We have an open mark open season in the market right now.
Speaker Change: <unk> response, and underpinning that to your question is.
Speaker Change: The supply outlook.
Speaker Change: By customer and in aggregate and remember that we are basically full today.
Speaker Change: And they've got a number of highly economic.
Speaker Change: Thats it.
Speaker Change: Had very low oil price debottleneck and.
Speaker Change: Smaller projects Theyre not.
Speaker Change: Requiring a big oil price to underpin a big massive new minor that's not what's underpinning.
Speaker Change: This next wave of egress.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: And even in the worst case, I guess, you could think about that egress solution as insurance cigarettes right protecting.
Speaker Change: The price of the existing 5 million barrels a day.
Paul: Thanks, Paul and happy to turn it back.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Jeremy Tonet from Jpmorgan. Your line is open.
Speaker Change: Hi, good morning, good morning, Jeremy.
Speaker Change: Just wanted to start off.
Speaker Change: With regards to the natural gas pipeline network and opportunities to service growth. There. Thank you for the details provided but just wondering if you could provide maybe some incremental thoughts on the opportunity set to service.
Speaker Change: Growing power demand and.
Speaker Change: Even even data center fuel demand behind that is this something timeline wise do you think that can happen near term or do you think this takes more time to play out just wondering how you see I guess the opportunity to service.
Speaker Change: Natural gas fired power, yes, maybe to start with what we've already done right. So and we did talk during the.
Cynthia Hansen: Our analyst day in March just a month ago, but how we saw some opportunities in the next six to 18 months, which I'll, let Cynthia speeches well, let's not forget that in the last less than a year Enbridge has added five gigawatts are secured five gigawatts of.
Speaker Change: Serving natural gas to power plants, So you've got our ridge line project in.
Speaker Change: In GTS North Carolina, the GDS business is serving.
Speaker Change: Duke power plants, there, Utah direct connections to data centers. That's another couple of hundred megawatts, Ontario, Theres, probably a gigawatt of plans there Ohio.
Speaker Change: Gigawatt there at the Trumbull plant. So that's five gigawatts just on its own. So this is actually ongoing and occurring real time right now and I think we've got some great opportunities ahead of US you want to speak to that Cynthia Thanks, Greg.
Speaker Change: Yes, Jeremy.
Speaker Change: Outlined at Enbridge day, we do have a lot of opportunity.
Speaker Change: For power demands, whether that's coming from increased industrial demand the coal to gas conversion out of the data centers, we have 35, plus opportunity or about 11 Bcf per day of that.
Speaker Change: <unk> demand.
Speaker Change: So by 2032, that's about $14 billion kind of opportunities that and as we said we're focused on that near term in the next six to 18 months, we probably see $1 billion to $2 billion worth of opportunities there.
Speaker Change: And with that projects that where we're having great conversations with those.
Speaker Change: Our customers that have that increasing power needs.
Speaker Change: They are at really attractive returns in that six to eight times multiple built multiple so we can't talk about all the details obviously right now because we're in the midst of having those conversations but you should look to see some announcements coming in that in that timeframe. So it is exciting and we have capacity to support.
Speaker Change: And Jeremy just because Matthew ackman in their room throne of <unk>. We also said at about two gigawatts of.
Speaker Change: Power projects on the renewable side that are serving really big clients on the data center side as well and you know those tech names, we've put them out there before so it shouldnt forget that either.
Speaker Change: Got it.
Speaker Change: That's helpful. Thank you for that and then maybe just shifting to the results for the year.
Speaker Change: It seemed that the guide was reaffirmed here.
Speaker Change: But just wondering I guess, how everything maybe within the year shaping up versus expectations and I. Appreciate the comments on seasonality as highlighted there that's helpful. But just the ship.
Speaker Change: Quarterly allocation.
Speaker Change: And in this deck versus prior.
Speaker Change: Little bit different so just wondering if theres anything else that was shaping up in the quarter and the year on a quarterly basis.
Speaker Change: That we should be thinking about.
Speaker Change: I'll, let Pat speak I don't think Theres anything different I think we're just trying to give you more insight obviously add the new utilities, so making sure that people fully understand our first and fourth quarter are the big quarters, Yes, I think thats right. The big change year over year would be the addition of all the U S utilities.
Speaker Change: They are not exposed to weather like Ontario is but they still have a significant profile into the kind of Q1 Q4 categories I just want to make sure that people are able.
Speaker Change: We're able to model that appropriately I think your question on the strong first quarter, if thats, how we think about it. It's a really strong first quarter gets us really get into the year as we talked about from a headwind or tailwind perspective, making sure that we're of course always operating reliably if we do that what we should be well within the guidance range. We provided there is a potential.
Speaker Change: The upside around the new acquisition, we just made if we can close out within the next month or two we've got some FX upside as we talked about when we guided but again, where we're fairly hedged there is as part of our kind of methodical process that we have there, but there could be some upside both on EBITDA and DCF, there and then always watching interest rates in a fairly volatile wind.
Speaker Change: Right now, but all in all we're feeling very good about how the year shaping up and a great start.
Speaker Change: Got it thank you I'll leave it there thanks Jeremy.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Robert <unk> from CIBC. Your line is open.
Robert: Hey, good morning, everyone.
Robert: To go back to the permanent questions.
Robert: There are obviously there was an attempt to improve permitting in the U S with alternative arrangements for NEPA compliance I'm wondering what your take is on that specifically if you have an appetite to want to have any projects reviewed under that those alternative arrangements or would you.
Robert: We need to see something more concrete.
Robert: What's a little bit of a mixed bag. Some of it's a very it's a live discussion I will tell you generally speaking accelerated depreciation our depreciation that permitting is awesome. However, it depends how far you are already along on the project whether you wanted to go back and restart.
Speaker Change: Are there court challenges et cetera, So Robert I'm, not trying to all of escape the question, but I think it depends but theres no doubt.
Speaker Change: Accelerated approvals I would say in general are a good thing and you've seen some of our projects put on say the Army Corps has accelerated element.
Speaker Change: But right across the board and we've had discussions with the interior Secretary at the energy Secretary.
Speaker Change: So I would expect on balance accelerated Permian is great, but it doesn't mean, we'll move every project to restart the clock I think equally and maybe more important is just the policy stance and everything from being able to use gas appliances. If you will on the GDS.
Speaker Change: Side to just the openness and acceptance and reality.
Speaker Change: The fact that.
Speaker Change: United States Treasury, Canada, either can't move forward without gas fired generation, that's a winner right across the board for us.
Speaker Change: But on that side, it's not just about <unk> knee business about accelerated.
Speaker Change: Approval of transmission electric transmission as well that's going to drive that so I don't think theres any.
Speaker Change: One simple answer to that question Unfortunately wherever.
Speaker Change: No that's why I asked it.
Speaker Change: Next question.
Speaker Change: I just wanted to get your updated views on the Permian Theres been a number of producers that have suggested wheat prices are curbing their capital investment.
Speaker Change: Notwithstanding the record volumes at Ingalls this quarter, what is your outlook for Permian production in general and the impact on both Ingleside and your Permian gas system.
Speaker Change: Curious if theres alignment with the joint venture partners on the pace at which you deploy capital on the particularly on the gas side.
Speaker Change: Yeah on the first on your last question and then maybe Colin can speak to solve the Permian volume issues I don't think Theres any we would never we re upped or picked up another piece of the asset.
Speaker Change: Whitewater JV Matterhorn, if there was miss alignment I think there is absolute alignment on what needs to be done obviously matter horns, a project thats.
Speaker Change: That's already in service.
Speaker Change: But look youre seeing <unk> go up in the Permian the need for gas takeaway is absolute regardless of your view, whether you think there's going to be a slowdown in production or a leveling out of production and I will say the gas pricing is quite.
Speaker Change: Productive.
Speaker Change: Pun intended in terms of actually building takeaway and serving as a minor but an important buffer to a weaker price on the <unk> side as well so but on the Permian I mean, there's no doubt we're watching those those rig counts on what our producing customers are saying on the oil side, yes, yes, Robert can chime in here and.
Speaker Change: The Permian is a great basin.
Speaker Change: <unk> is a critical basin.
Speaker Change: And we've got our ear to the ground just as you are and we're seeing the last couple of weeks.
Speaker Change: You're probably a mixed bag from producers some some holding firm some dropping a rig or two or three.
Speaker Change: So we will kind of follow that the good news is is that our business is built to be relatively insensitive to that.
Speaker Change: Price and two that indirect risk and volume risk, we have a contracted business in the Permian.
Speaker Change: Ingleside and Gray oak are contracted in our cash flows are solid prices go up and down we built the business intentionally to be resilient and.
Speaker Change: I think the question on JV partners may be more Cynthia it related but.
Speaker Change: We're aligned with with our team.
Speaker Change: Some expansions coming online on gray oak in Ingleside here. So the next two years of cash flows.
Speaker Change: Look really good yet for the Permian.
Speaker Change: OPEC plus actions tariffs all that again as Colin said, we watch it really carefully but this is exactly the environment that enbridge was built for right size diversity, serving the best demand markets in the most economic production.
Speaker Change: Basins, that's really what makes enbridge a winter so.
Speaker Change: We are watching that stuff carefully we can react and builds out small increments or large increments depending on what.
Speaker Change: Depending on what our customers want us to give them quite a time.
Speaker Change: That's a lot of good color. Thanks, so much.
Speaker Change: Thanks, Rob Your next your next question comes from the line of Theresa Chen from Barclays. Your line is open.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Theresa Chen: Good morning, Thank you for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: Maybe double clicking on that the Permian to Gulf Coast gas transmission franchise.
Speaker Change: <unk> successfully participated in multiple minority interests across different asset here and looking at your broader footprint you seem very comfortable and maybe even prefer to wholly own and operate your assets. How should we think about the strategic path forward for your gas transmission footprint from the Permian all the way through the Gulf Coast, How do you envision.
Speaker Change: These assets ultimately fitting within your portfolio.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I think it's a fair commentary so we generally like to.
Speaker Change: And unlike a lot of big companies, we like to control, both strategically and commercially but we have a lot of joint ventures right across the.
Speaker Change: Fred across North America, and in Europe, too as you know so we're comfortable in that environment.
Speaker Change: It does allow us to participate.
Speaker Change: In a greater number of locations because of the spread of the capital that's required.
Speaker Change: And it does give us insights with some of those partners when I think of some of our great partner some of them are producing partners some of them have upstream and downstream.
Speaker Change: Downstream activities and sometimes their fellow mid streamers as well so we get a lot of value from that ultimately would we like to.
Speaker Change: One significant elements of it and being control and strategy I think that's fair.
Speaker Change: It's a fair comment.
Speaker Change: But we're patient.
Speaker Change: Not absolutely necessary and as you know we are not opportunity short. So this allows us to take the.
Speaker Change: It allows us to participate in as many opportunities as possible.
Speaker Change: Understood and Greg going back to the macro and the role of infrastructure across your footprint and the letter of intent is trying to support that UCSB egress, what are the near and medium term goals of working we've established and how do you view the path forward for the industry.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Over time, taking into account the learnings from recent geopolitical volatility and trade tensions.
Speaker Change: I think the first time first thing is just to engage with the new with the new government here in Canada, we have not had an opportunity as a group or a subset of that group to sit down with the prime Minister.
Speaker Change: He has been a little bit busy on both sides of the border and setting a cabinet when that happens I think that'll be the first thing and I think it's important.
Speaker Change: The prime minister of an opportunity to hear from the industry.
Speaker Change: Think about a third of those 39 Ceos represent a lot of jobs a lot of GDP a lot of revenue. So that's one secondly.
Speaker Change: Got it address the carbon tax and emission caps issues third thing you got to get rid of the ban on the West coast.
Speaker Change: For tankers, if there is expected to be egress that way and.
Speaker Change: And then I think that we've already made some progress on that front, but we have to execute on it that.
Speaker Change: That would be indigenous loan guarantees and participation in infrastructure.
Speaker Change: Four or five things that we got a pitter-patter, let's get at it I think the prime Minister cities wants to do that but those things can be done.
Speaker Change: Very quickly.
Speaker Change: With either a stroke of the pen or some legislation.
Speaker Change: And again I don't.
Speaker Change: This is quickly turning into a two party country.
Speaker Change: Both parties had similar.
Speaker Change: Maybe different slightly different tactics on being able to build energy. So I would've thought that these things can be done rather quickly in our parliament that United on the need for that for Canada.
Theresa Chen: Thank you very much thanks Theresa.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Ben Pham from BMO capital markets. Your line is open.
Ben Pham: Hey, Thanks, good morning Andre.
Ben Pham: The earnings report, you mentioned almost $3 billion of projects.
Ben Pham: Sanctioned.
Ben Pham: Year to date.
Can you comment on the outlook on sanction projects going forward, where youre seeing the most business activity and do you anticipate the pace of change Thats alright.
Ben Pham: Yes, that's a good question.
Ben Pham: First of all I would say that youre going to see sanctioning of projects in every single one of our businesses and that's it.
Ben Pham: Excellent Alright, I mean, we as we said we were already executing on $27 $28 billion worth of projects in that $50 billion of opportunities I think youll continue to see that.
Speaker Change: I'm looking around the room here at four business leaders that are pretty keen to.
Speaker Change: Keep growing their businesses and create opportunities. So I'm also looking at the CFO here that really likes.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Being able to choose from those projects that provide the greatest returns as quickly as possible for investors.
Speaker Change: And obviously, serving our customers so.
Speaker Change: Im going to say, you're probably going to see the biggest sanctioning right out of the blocks.
Speaker Change: On the liquid side, which is which is somewhat different on.
Speaker Change: On the gas side, both at GDS and <unk> have a variety as well I think the one that's a bit of a question Mark.
Speaker Change: I mentioned in the opening comments is what do we do on renewables just with the dynamic nature of policy, there, but <unk> and his team have a number of late stage projects that could move forward.
Speaker Change: Don't look like they will be caught up in either tariff for policy element. So it's right across the board.
Speaker Change: Which really gives us a lot of confidence on our long term growth.
Speaker Change: That's not just.
Speaker Change: The positive here that shaping up through the first quarter anyways.
Speaker Change: Okay very good then I don't know if youre sitting here.
Speaker Change: The capital.
Speaker Change: Our capital program.
Speaker Change: It's been ramping up.
Speaker Change: Italy, and how do you think what human capital on humans.
Speaker Change: Human capital in that equation is there.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Perfect for Australia, that's too big for you.
Speaker Change: Relative to your staffing and do you think that could be a constraint on moving forward with projects.
Speaker Change: So far we haven't seen that been it kind of goes back to <unk> question about JV and stuff like take the whitewater stuff. We are not the lead player from the Bill perspective, but we get to participate I, even look at some of our renewable activities.
Speaker Change: Say in Europe, that's being we're not the lead builder.
Speaker Change: And we obviously have a major project team that looks at all projects say over $50 million is at an enbridge size. So we haven't seen it to date, but obviously I'm always concerned about human capital do we have enough people to deliver on it but so far.
Speaker Change: So good from from that perspective.
Speaker Change: I guess the other one I would point to as wood fiber too we're not actually building that one we're involved in helping them and providing counsel and what we know about marine activities and building types et cetera. So so far so good but I think youre right to point out.
Speaker Change: Got to make sure we stay on top of.
Speaker Change: The human capital element of this maybe one thing I'll just add to that is.
Speaker Change: 'twenty as I said at Enbridge days.
Speaker Change: $8 9 billion is a big number but we're a big company. If you go back a number of years ago, We had peaks in our capital programs like this in the past and have managed through them quite well. So I think we've got a track record of doing that we've got the right skill sets a number of those people are still with the organization. So I think we feel really good about our not only our project group our operational teams.
Speaker Change: Our supply chain management, so I think well as you've noted continue to monitor it as we go forward, but at the moment I don't see any constraints there.
Speaker Change: Okay got it thank you.
Speaker Change: Kent.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Manav Gupta from UBS. Your line is open.
Manav Gupta: Good morning, guys and congrats on a very strong quarter I'm, just trying to understand it.
Manav Gupta: Acquisition of the Phi utilities have gone even better than most expected only when you expected. So first if you could talk a little bit about that would have been the positive surprises and then circling back to Liberty to Jeremy's question. If everything is so good and that is also not a real headwind then is the 2025.
Manav Gupta: Conservative at this point.
Pat Barry: Yeah, well look we give annual guidance and as Pat mentioned.
Speaker Change: The first quarter very nice to see a robust start but the fourth quarter is a really important quarter for us.
Speaker Change: I don't want to get ahead of ourselves I think we are in a great spot far better to have a nice launch.
Speaker Change: Then being behind the eight ball and we've had a nice launch and there's a reason why we've hit guidance what it looks like it'll be 20 years in a row.
Speaker Change: And it's because we've got relative stability plus and minus so feel very good about what we've put out there to the street.
Speaker Change: To date and feel very good about some of the tailwind on the GDS side of things.
Speaker Change: Acquisition of the U S utilities.
Speaker Change: I think it's going extremely well remember we haven't had some of these assets even in the house for a year. So obviously integration is ongoing disentangled from Dominion ongoing all as planned.
Speaker Change: So that's still got to get done before I'm willing to say.
Speaker Change: Big success, but from a macro perspective.
Speaker Change: I don't think in let's see that would've been.
Speaker Change: Late or early 'twenty three mid 'twenty three that most people would have seen the uptick in demand in gas power side of things data centers et cetera. All of that is an incremental macro benefit to two that acquisition a.
Speaker Change: Regulatory environment continued to be along the lines we expected.
Speaker Change: In the acquisition.
Speaker Change: And people are great. So.
Speaker Change: I don't know, Michelle whether you'd add anything to that.
Speaker Change: You got it Greg I mean, the growth I mentioned that at Enbridge day is even stronger than we thought there was a real tailwind around electrification, whether that's data centers power generation.
Speaker Change: We were the strength of the regulatory teams helped us close quickly. So we were able to bring that utilities.
Speaker Change: Faster than we'd expected to and really start to integrate them. The integration is going well, we exited our first major system cutover earlier. This week it went smoothly and exactly as Greg said the people are excellent the cultures are meshing well so.
We're really pleased with where things are and we've got Optionality, where we want to put those regulated utility.
Speaker Change: And yet.
Multiple jurisdictions and those that provide the greatest opportunities for their own customers and also for our investors or the place we're going to put that call. It roughly $3 billion of capital each year on the utility side.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: I'll take my quick final pillar is the benefits or the decision to move ahead with confidence pipeline and additional 10% interest in Matterhorn.
Speaker Change: Drew.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yeah. Thanks, Matt.
Speaker Change: Obviously, we continue to really be excited about joint venture opportunities.
Speaker Change: As we outlined we invested that the 2 billion today.
Speaker Change: The JV opportunities there and we have about $90 billion growth projects that are out there and easier and obviously that Permian basin, then it ties into our existing infrastructure, we are in that space.
Speaker Change: And we have the storage assets to it.
Tracy.
Speaker Change: And so as.
Speaker Change: As we look out say what that future as we need the opportunity continue to build out there with really attractive dealt months or around that time, yes, it's really that super system like we built the super system on the liquid side, calling team there and to the export worlds.
Cynthia and her team is doing a great job of building another gas Super system.
Speaker Change: And serving all of those LNG facilities and storage et cetera. So.
Speaker Change: Frankly, a bit of a no brainer to keep building that side of the system.
Manav Gupta: Thank you so much and congrats on a great quarter. Thank you manav.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Rob Hope from Scotiabank. Your line is open.
Rob Hope: Good morning, everyone a follow up to the last question. So at the recent Investor Day, you highlighted $2 billion to $3 billion of U S. Gulf Coast expansions on the gas side in the next I will call. It couple of quarters here.
Rob Hope: It looks like you've made some progress with matterhorn, but looking forward. What are you thinking about your kind of Permian in U S Gulf Coast.
Rob Hope: Super system, where are you seeing the best opportunities now is it more on the storage and LNG connectivity side or do you need more kind of we'll call it capacity out of the Permian.
Yes, I think it's a combination.
Rob Hope: We see lots of opportunities coming in front and Permian scale. That's why we have these ongoing growth opportunities.
Rob Hope: We have obviously with our tech.
Rob Hope: How do your system there along the Gulf Coast, there continues to be a lot.
Rob Hope: Expansion opportunities with the LNG exports were connected to a 100% of the current operating LNG export facilities. So there's lots of upside there we still have on the storage side.
Rob Hope: We noted that we have just closed three open season, one for Tracy EBIT loss.
Rob Hope: <unk> B, we're just reviewing those results they acquired the last one or certainly in this weeks, we're reviewing noticed yourself.
Rob Hope: A lot of opportunity to continue.
Rob Hope: And Heather story cheaper system that.
Rob Hope: Going to be a combination of lateral theres some storage areas.
Rob Hope: Our specific projects tied to LNG expansion and new facilities.
Rob Hope: It's an exciting position to be in and we will have to compete for capital projects.
Rob Hope: Projects.
Rob Hope: Yes, I love the nature of the several hundred million dollars at a time not that there's anything wrong with several brand at a time, but obviously, it's quicker deployment, we shouldn't forget the power side too there's power opportunities along the Gulf coast for the reasons you all know whether it's industrial or data centers. So I'd watch for us to get our fair share of that too.
Rob Hope: Thanks for that.
Speaker Change: And then maybe just following Matterhorn and can you give an outlook of what the M&A environment is looking right now just given all the volatility out there are you seeing some opportunities too.
Rob Hope: <unk>.
Rob Hope: At attractive pricing for attractive assets like Matterhorn.
Speaker Change: Well first of all I think the important point is that we don't need to do any M&A.
Speaker Change: It has to really compete strongly against that $50 billion of opportunities that we see organic Lee and obviously, we are delivering on $27 billion of growth, that's really going to drive.
Speaker Change: Our growth outlook for the next several years.
Speaker Change: Traditionally at this time of <unk>.
Speaker Change: Cycle opportunities do come up people do need to get liquid.
Speaker Change: People.
Speaker Change: And tend to see valuations therefore come down so you know given the size of our company. We're always seeing those opportunities as we've said, we'll we'll look at tuck ins, but yes theyre.
Speaker Change: We're going to have to be good deals, we're going to have to be accretive to our per share metrics, they're going to have to be neutral or better to the balance sheet.
Speaker Change: And they've got to be better than the organic stuff that we have in front of us, but we'll always keep a wide open to that.
Rob Hope: I haven't seen that kind of stress really yet, though rob so we will see what happens.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Sure.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of <unk> Satish from Wells Fargo. Your line is open.
Satish: Great Good morning.
Speaker Change: Maybe just go into Texas Eastern can you help us understand if you could be involved with the Homer City data Center project in Pennsylvania, given the proximity of Texas Eastern it's pretty close to that planned data center have you had discussions with them to supply the planned.
Speaker Change: <unk> out our future expansions and if so how.
Speaker Change: Much capacity exists in that region on your pipe and would you have to make a meaningful investment to expand it.
Speaker Change: Yes. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Cynthia.
Speaker Change: With that Homer city opportunity AG Tech ecosystem.
Speaker Change: You know, we're not going to talk to any specific negotiations that we have ongoing what I will say just in general is at.
Speaker Change: Throughout that area of Texas Eastern has about 10 Bcf per day equivalent 60, gigawatts of energy equivalent under.
Speaker Change: <unk> utilized receipt points.
Speaker Change: That tie in to that Marcellus supply region. So we do have some very economical pipeline expansion in Pennsylvania, and Ohio, along our existing right away. So we are having lots of conversations with those developed.
Speaker Change: Our power Gen. Hyperscale is for data center is that all area is very active and so it's an exciting opportunity.
Speaker Change: And we'll continue to as.
Speaker Change: I noted earlier.
Speaker Change: Hopefully we'll continue to.
Speaker Change: Keep you updated on multiple announcements over the next period of time, because we really do believe that we have that $1 million to $2 million with the projects that we'll be able to announce in the next six to 18 months.
Speaker Change: And all of that would be incremental to the five gigawatts of gas we're providing.
Speaker Change: To serve five gigawatts of power. So excited about it we will see where we go but you are correct. We are in a good position.
Speaker Change: Got it okay and stay tuned for that and then I wanted to go back to the slide on seasonality slide 13.
Speaker Change: I know you mentioned the utilities business among other factors, that's kind of driving that quarterly cadence, but it does look a little bit steeper I think than we would've anticipated if I just take the midpoint of the 2025 EBITDA guidance and assume 20%. This is for Q2, you end up with an EBITDA figure thats quite a bit.
Lower than consensus so I just wanted to understand how to read this table.
Speaker Change: Should we shipped more of the utility EBITDA towards Q4 and out of Q2 or is this more kind of illustrative in nature, rather than formal quarterly guidance. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Yes, I mean, we're not trying to give formal quarterly guidance here, we give annual guidance, we're trying to help the street.
Speaker Change: A discussion on how this new profile Lans given that we do have the utilities I think we can help you as we go through maybe detailed conversations on how the assets role, but it was really just trying to highlight the fact that not only do we have the new.
Speaker Change: A new U S utilities, and Leon Taylor utility that have.
Speaker Change: Both the front and back end weighted profile, but other parts of our business do that too for example on the mainline.
Speaker Change: We hit a record $3 2 million barrels this quarter.
Speaker Change: And our forecast was III, we assume we'd be over three for the quarter, but not quite as high as the $3. Two because there is some seasonality there as well and then go to cynthia's business in GTS and depending on whether and how interruptible service gets utilized that usually happens in the winter months. So really again, just trying to help people understand their models as we said we've had a really good.
Speaker Change: For the year.
Speaker Change: But there's still a bunch of year to go here. So that's why we're maintaining our guidance as we've noted so.
Speaker Change: Understood. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Your next question comes from the line of Maurice Choy from RBC capital markets. Your line is open.
Maurice Choy: Thank you and good morning, everyone. Just wanted to come back in early discussion about U S crude oil since the rising value for assets with export solution.
Maurice Choy: Even acting as a strategic differentiator so.
Maurice Choy: Zoom into <unk> again, if you could share your updated outlook for the facility and just broadly the U S crude oil exports given the global trade landscapes.
Speaker Change: Hey races call. It yeah. So we remain.
Maurice Choy: Bulls on exports generally all commodities.
Maurice Choy: Even though side energy.
Maurice Choy: The continent's long everything so.
Maurice Choy: <unk>.
Maurice Choy: And having been involved now with ingleside for three or four years, I think we furthered our knowledge and conviction.
Maurice Choy: In the thesis generally.
Maurice Choy: And specifically.
Maurice Choy: What advantages one marine facility from the next.
Maurice Choy: And.
Maurice Choy: Obviously the facility has a number of advantages not going to repeat them all but it all translates each one of those advantages.
Maurice Choy: Accumulates into nickels dimes quarters, even dollars of.
Maurice Choy: Advantage. So we're trying to now grow that out obviously, we're expanding the side there is another.
Maurice Choy: Phase under construction that's contracted.
Maurice Choy: We're also trying to port that all those advantages to similar commodities.
Maurice Choy: Whether it's Ngls or you talked about LNG at some point or are low carbon so.
Maurice Choy: That thesis remains strong.
Maurice Choy: And over time.
Maurice Choy: We're trying to build a longer value chain like we talked about in gas five or six minutes ago.
Maurice Choy: Further up in.
Maurice Choy: And direct.
Maurice Choy: And help customers keep as much of that value chain as they can that's the strategy.
Maurice Choy: We are adding our marketing affiliate to that chain now in a modest way so yes.
Maurice Choy: Yes, we continue to believe in that thesis, but in a in a contracted model. This is.
Maurice Choy: It's a strong fundamental approach, but it's also then underpinned belt and suspenders, if you like by a very differentiated contracted model.
Maurice Choy: Okay.
Maurice Choy: Adding all elements right, we're adding some more storage at Ingalls talked about the additional docs that we added in some respects.
Maurice Choy: As you see <unk> being a little lighter on price those export markets become even more important looking at perhaps say unless $63 range I think I saw it. This morning kind of thing versus to just 6%. So we wanted to make sure. We can provide every opportunity for our customers to maximize either growth but.
So their net backs and the.
Maurice Choy: The export side of that on the gas liquid side is absolutely correct.
Speaker Change: Perfect that makes sense and my one follow up here is about an earlier comment about you spoke about allocating capital.
Maurice Choy: Based on the best risk adjusted returns, including economic and regulatory environment.
Maurice Choy: How do you view the entire regulators recent position above cost of capital in.
Maurice Choy: Jurisdictions competitiveness versus other parts of your portfolio.
Maurice Choy: Yes, I'll let.
Maurice Choy: Ill, let michelle speak to that but obviously.
Maurice Choy: Equity thickness and better returns are better than lower equity thickness and even the same return. So I think that's something they've got to be thoughtful about some of their discussion on cost of capital that will even change in ROE isn't really impact it doesn't impact us till the end but.
Maurice Choy: You are always making those decisions Michelle.
Maurice Choy: So I mean, our current ROE was set in a rate case at that nine 2% net set there three to a 2029 so the that.
Maurice Choy: That decision really doesn't impact us and we can look at it then but at that point in time, it's a great point. So it will have an opportunity to discuss our equity thickness as well, which which was raised a couple of points for the first time in a long time in our last rate case. So the other thing I would say is and ensure we have the opportunity to earn over.
Speaker Change: And rather than are we up to about 100 basis points before we get into sharing and we're certainly targeting to do that.
Speaker Change: Thank though as Greg says you have to look at the combination of a few things you have to look at there or at least you have to look at the equity thickness. So what's your rate of return on this capital invest you have to look at how quickly you get that capital back, Ontario does have a good framework, but so do our U S utilities. They have great riders, where we have very short quick cycle capital.
Speaker Change: And then I would say the most important thing beyond that is looking at the regulatory certainty what's the consistency of what we get out of our regulators and PUC is across the board and that's something we look at very closely and there is definitely some differences and we have some of it is very strong very certain and then there's some where there's some more questions. So we're always going to look to direct.
Speaker Change: That capital, where we have those good returns and that certainty for our shareholders.
What I would say is I'm really pleased with both the premier von therapy in your forward.
Speaker Change: And the minister of energy.
Mr Ritchie: Mr Ritchie.
Mr Ritchie: Their commitment to gas.
Speaker Change: And then <unk>, obviously should be regulating in an independent fashion, but consistent with the government's policy and the governments policy is to provide access to gas to the maximum.
Mr Ritchie: <unk> ability to Ontario.
Mr Ritchie: Consumers and businesses and that's a really important signal one and look forward to seeing their natural gas.
Mr Ritchie: Policy updates here very soon.
Mr Ritchie: And I expect that to be very positive.
Speaker Change: Perfect. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: And we have now reached the end of our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Rebecca Morris for closing remarks.
Speaker Change: Great. Thank you and we appreciate your ongoing interest in Enbridge as always our Investor Relations team is available following the call for any additional questions that you may have once again, thank you and have a great day.
This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation you may now disconnect.
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Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: [noise].
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: [music].
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: [noise] [noise].
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: [noise].
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: [music].
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: [noise] [noise].
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: