Q1 2025 Cascades Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Aitken, you may begin the conference. Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. And thank you for joining our first quarter 2025 conference call. We will begin with an overview of our operational and financial results, followed by some concluding remarks, after which we will begin the question period.
Thank you operator, good morning, everyone and thank you for joining our first quarter 2025 conference call. We will begin with an overview of our operational and financial results followed by some concluding remarks, after which we will begin the question period.
Jennifer Aitken: Today's speakers will be Hugues Simon, President and CEO, and Allan Hogg, CFO.
Allan Hogg: Today's speakers will be <unk>, president and CEO and Allan Hogg CFO.
Jennifer Aitken: Joining us for the question period at the end of the call are Jean-David Tardif, Executive Vice President, Packaging, and Jérôme Parlier, Executive Vice President, Tissue.
Speaker Change: Joining us for the question period at the end of the call are jumped out as it does just executive Vice President packaging and Johan <unk> Executive Vice President tissue.
Jennifer Aitken: Before I turn the call over to my colleagues, I would like to highlight that certain statements made during this call will discuss historical and forward looking matters. The accuracy of these statements is subject to risk factors that can have a material impact on actual results. These risks are listed in our public filing. These statements, the investor presentation, and the press release also include data that are not measures of performance under IFRS. Please refer to our Q1 2025 investor presentation for details.
Speaker Change: Before I turn the call over to my colleagues I would like to highlight that certain statements made during this call will discuss historical and forward looking matters. The accuracy of these statements is subject to risk factors that can have a material impact on actual results.
Speaker Change: These risks are listed in our public filings.
Speaker Change: These statements the Investor presentation and the press release also include data that are not measures of performance under Ifr S. P.
Speaker Change: Please refer to our Q1 2025 investor presentation for details.
Jennifer Aitken: This presentation, along with our first quarter press release, can be found in the investors section of our website.
Speaker Change: This presentation, along with our first quarter press release can be found in the investors section of our website.
Jennifer Aitken: If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us after the session.
Speaker Change: If you have any questions. Please feel free to contact us after the session I will now turn the call over to our CEO <unk>, who will begin with a review of our Q1 performance.
Hugues Simon: I will now turn the call over to our CEO, Hugues Simon, who will begin with a review of our Q1 performance. Thank you, Jennifer, and good morning, everyone. I would like to begin with some brief general comments regarding our first quarter results. The business environment was more complex than usual given the ambiguity regarding tariffs and trade policies around the world. This uncertainty led to a decrease in consumer confidence and demand levels in the second half of the quarter. These factors impacted our performance both in terms of sales volume and production. Given this content Sales levels decreased 5% from Q4 as lower volumes more than offset a favorable exchange rate and average selling price.
Speaker Change: Thank you Jennifer and good morning, everyone.
Speaker Change: I would like to begin with some brief general comments regarding our first quarter results.
Speaker Change: The business environment was more complex than usual given the ambiguity regarding tariffs and trade policies around the world.
Speaker Change: This uncertainty led to a decrease in consumer confidence and demand levels in the second half of the quarter.
Speaker Change: These factors impacted our performance both in terms of sales volume and production cost.
Speaker Change: Given this context.
Speaker Change: Those levels decreased 5% from Q4 as lower volumes more than offset a favorable exchange rate and average selling prices.
Hugues Simon: Year over year, sales increased 4% with selling prices and exchange rates fully offsetting a negative volume. Consolidated EBITDA of $125 million decreased 14% from Q4. This was driven by lower volumes and higher operational costs associated with lower production freight costs were also a slight as were the usual seasonally higher energy. These factors, more than offset, benefits from favorable raw material costs, exchange rate, and selling price. Year-over-year consolidated EBITDA increased 21% as stronger pricing in our packaging activities offset lower volumes and higher energy and production costs across our business.
Speaker Change: Year over year sales increased 4% with selling prices and exchange rates fully offsetting a negative volume impact.
Speaker Change: Consolidated EBITDA of $125 million decreased 14% from Q4.
Speaker Change: This was driven by lower volumes and higher operational costs associated with lower production levels freight costs were also a slight headwind.
Speaker Change: As worthy usual seasonally higher energy costs. These factors more than offset benefits from favorable raw material cost exchange rate and selling prices.
Speaker Change: Year over year consolidated EBITDA increased 21%, a stronger pricing in our packaging activities offset lower volumes and higher energy and production cost across our businesses we.
Hugues Simon: We provide a financial breakdown of the impact of these factors sequentially and year-over-year on slide 4. On the raw material side, highlighted on slides 5 and 6, Q1 average index price for OCC decreased by 6% from Q4 and was 23% lower year-over-year. As expected, fiber availability was seasonally softer and we consume inventories to limit market expectancy. Our fiber availability has increased since mid-March, which supported stable index prices, followed by a $5 to $10 reduction, depending on region or your district. Currently, we expect favorable pricing in the coming Average Q1 index prices for white recycled paper grades increased 5% from Q4, but are 12% below last year level.
Speaker Change: We provide a financial breakdown of the impact of these factors sequentially and year over year on slide four.
Speaker Change: On the raw materials side highlighted on slides five and six the Q1 average index price for OCC decreased by 6% from Q4, and it was 23% lower year over year as expected fiber availability was seasonally softer and we consume inventories to limit market exposure.
Speaker Change: Our fiber availability has increased since mid March which supported stable index prices, followed by a five to $10 reduction depending on region earlier this week.
Speaker Change: <unk>, we expect favorable pricing in the coming months.
Speaker Change: Average Q1 index prices for white recycled paper grades increased 5% from Q4, but are 12% below last year levels.
Hugues Simon: This reflected lower seasonal generation and higher export and domestic demand levels. We are expecting another slight increase in Q2 as mills build inventories ahead of lower generation levels in the summer months. Both prices were relatively stable sequentially, up 4% in the case of softwood and down 2% for hardwood. Year-over-year prices were higher, up 22% and 4% respectively. The North American market was disrupted by the threat of tariff on Canadian pulp, which led many US customers to build stock ahead of the implementation of Focus has since shifted to commercial tensions between China and the US.
Speaker Change: This reflected lower seasonal generation and higher export and domestic demand levels.
Speaker Change: We are expecting another slight increase in Q2 as meals build inventories ahead of lower generation levels in the summer months.
Speaker Change: Bulk prices were relatively stable sequentially up 4% in the case of softwood and down 2% for hardwood year over year prices were higher up 22% and 4% respectively.
Speaker Change: North American market was disrupted by the threat of tariffs on Canadian pulp, which there are many U S customers to build stock ahead of the implementation of tariffs.
Speaker Change: Focus is since shifted to commercial tension between China and the U S. We would expect the softwood market to ease as producers is directly tied to the Chinese market seek alternative domestic customers.
Hugues Simon: We would expect the softwood market to ease as producers historically tied to the Chinese market seek alternative domestic Moving now to the results of our businesses as highlighted on page 8 through 13 of the presentation. Following the 2024 combination of our container board and specialty product segments, these businesses are now presented as a combined package. We have provided quarterly and annual legacy reporting income credits, figures on slide seven. Beginning with packaging. Our first quarter sales decreased 3% sequentially. This was driven entirely by lower volumes partially offset by slight selling price and exchange rate benefit. As Q1 progressed, we saw a deterioration in demand levels as consumers and businesses became increasingly cautious in the face of growing tariff and trade uncertainties.
Speaker Change: Moving now to the results of our businesses as highlighted on page eight through 13 of the presentation.
Speaker Change: Following the 2024 combination of our containerboard and specialty products segments. These businesses are not presented as a combined packaging business.
Speaker Change: We have provided quarterly and annual legacy reporting income credits figures on slide seven.
Speaker Change: Beginning with packaging, our first quarter sales decreased 3% sequentially. This was driven entirely by lower volumes, partially offset by slight selling price and exchange rate benefit.
Speaker Change: As Q1 progress we saw a deterioration in demand levels as consumers and businesses became increasingly cautious in the face of growing tariff and trade uncertainty.
Hugues Simon: To this end, we provide box shipment data for Cascades in the Canadian and U.S. industry on slide 8 and 9. EBITDA in Q1 was $109 million, a 17% decrease from Results benefited from lower raw material costs and the implementation of price These were more than offset by the effect from lower volumes and the resulting higher operating costs. Year-over-year sales increased by 7%, with benefits from higher selling prices and more favorable exchange rates, more than offsetting a negative volume increase. Hibito levels increased 45% from a year ago period driven by higher standing Lower raw material costs benefited manufacturing results by $10 million.
Speaker Change: To this end, we provide bulk shipment data forecast Scott in the Canadian and U S industry on slide eight.
Speaker Change: EBITDA in Q1 was $109 million, a 17% decrease from Q4.
Speaker Change: Results benefited from lower raw material costs, and the implementation of price increases.
Speaker Change: Were more than offset by the effect from lower volumes and the resulting higher operating cost levels.
Speaker Change: Year over year sales increased by 7% with benefits from higher selling prices and more favorable exchange rates more than offsetting a negative volume impact.
Speaker Change: <unk> increased 45% from a year ago period, driven by higher selling prices lower raw material cost benefits in manufacturing results by $10 million. This was partially offset by a corresponding 8 million impact from higher input costs related to mix of projects sold in our packaging distribution activities the last.
Hugues Simon: This was partially offset by a corresponding $8 million impact from higher input costs related to a mix of products sold in our packaging distribution activities, the last of which were counterbalanced by higher selling.
Speaker Change: Of which were counterbalanced by higher selling prices.
Hugues Simon: Lower volumes and higher operating costs partially offset these Moving now to our tissue business. First quarter sales decreased 8% sequentially, as lower volumes fully offset slight benefits from higher average selling prices and favorable Converted product shipments in short terms decreased by 15% in away from home and 5% in the retail market. EBITDA of $37 million decreased 18% from Q4, driven by lower volumes, higher seasonal energy costs, and increased freight. Lower raw material costs partially upset these Sales were stable year-over-year, decreasing 1%. This reflected a more favorable exchange rate offset by impacts from lower volumes and adverse selling.
Speaker Change: Lower volumes and higher operating costs, partially offset these benefits.
Speaker Change: Moving now to our tissue business first quarter sales decreased 8% sequentially as lower volumes fully offset slight benefits from higher average selling prices and favorable exchange rate <unk>.
Speaker Change: <unk> project shipments in short tons decreased by 15% in away from home and 5% in the retail market.
Speaker Change: EBITDA of $37 million decreased 18% from Q4, driven by lower volumes higher seasonal energy costs and increased freight costs lower raw material cost partially offset these impacts.
Speaker Change: Sales were stable year over year decreasing 1%. This reflected a more favorable exchange rate offset by impacts from lower volumes and average selling price shift.
Allan Hogg: Shipments decreased 4% year-over-year, with a 5% decrease in retail and a 3% decrease in the way. Year-over-year EBITDA decreased by $13 million, reflecting lower volumes, higher operating and raw material costs, and lower selling price. Our tissue volume decreased compared to both periods.
Speaker Change: Shipments decreased 4% year over year with a 5% decrease in retail and a 3% decrease in the away from home.
Speaker Change: Year over year, EBITDA decreased by $13 million, reflecting lower volumes higher operating and raw material costs and lower selling prices.
Speaker Change: Our tissue volume decreased compared to both periods due to market uncertainty some customers focused on reducing their inventory levels during the quarter.
Allan Hogg: Due to market uncertainty, some customers focused on reducing their inventory levels during the quarter. I would highlight that their volume decline in our retail business reflects the transition impact of our late 2024 strategic decision to realign and diversify our product and customer. Additional volumes will be added in 2025 as this transition is completed.
Speaker Change: I like that their volume decline in our retail business reflects the transition impact of our late 2024 strategic decision to realign and diversify our product and customer portfolio.
Speaker Change: Additional volumes will be added in 2025 as this transition is completed.
Allan Hogg: Corporate activities costs were $10 million lower this quarter compared to Q4. This reflects a foreign exchange loss in Q4 of last year and lower stock based compensation.
Speaker Change: Activities costs were $10 million lower this quarter compared to Q4. This reflects a foreign exchange loss in Q4.
Speaker Change: Last year and lower stock based compensation expenses I will now pass the call to Adam who will briefly discuss some of the financial highlights.
Allan Hogg: I will now pass the call to Allan, who will briefly discuss some of the financial items. Thank you, Hugues, and good morning, everyone. So on slides 14 and 15, we illustrate the specific items recorded in the quarter, which impacted operating income by six million dollars. The main items were $6 million of restructuring costs resulting from plan closures and organizational changes in addition to a $4 million legal settlement cost. It was offset by a $4 million gain on derivatives, financial and Slide 16 and 17 illustrate the year-over-year and sequential variance of our Q1 adjusted earnings-per-share and the reconciliation with the specific items that affected our quarterly results.
Adam: Thank you <unk> and good morning, everyone. So on slides 14, and 15, we illustrate the specific items recorded in the quarter, which impacted operating income by $6 million. The main items were $6 million of restructuring costs, resulting from plant closures and organizational changes.
Speaker Change: In addition to a $4 million legal settlement costs.
Adam: It was offset by a $4 million gain on derivatives financial instruments.
Adam: Slide 16, and 17 illustrate the year over year and sequential volumes of our Q1 adjusted earnings per share and a reconciliation with the specific items that affected our quarterly results.
Allan Hogg: As reported, Q1 net earnings per share were $0.07. This compared to a net loss per share of $0.20 last year and $0.13 in Q4. On an adjusted basis, net earnings per share were 13 cents in the current quarter. This compared to zero net earnings per share last year and 25 cents in the fourth quarter of 2024. Year over year, this variance mainly reflects stronger EBITDA while sequential variance reflects lower EBITDA levels offset by a lower depreciation and amortization. As highlighted on slide 18, first quarter adjusted cash flow farm operations was $62 million, up from $46 million in the a year ago period, but below the $129 million in Q4.
Adam: As reported Q1 net earnings per share were <unk> <unk>.
Adam: This compared to a net loss per share of <unk> 20 last year and 13 in Q4.
Adam: On adjusted basis net earnings per share was <unk> 13 in the current quarter. This compares to zero net earnings per share last year and 25 cents in the fourth quarter of 2024.
Adam: Year over year. This variance mainly reflects stronger EBITDA why a sequential variance reflects lower EBITDA levels offset by a lower depreciation and amortization expense.
Adam: As highlighted on slide 18 first quarter adjusted cash flow from operations was $62 million up from $46 million in the year ago period, but below the $129 million in Q4.
Allan Hogg: Adjusted cash flow generated in the first quarter improved year-over-year, largely reflecting stronger cash flow from operation and the higher levels of capital investments in the year-ago period. Sequentially, adjusted cash flow generated decreased with lower cash flow from operations and higher financing expenses paid. Slide 19 provides detail about our capital investments. New investments for the first quarter total $24 million. For 2025, we continue to forecast approximately $175 million of capital expenditure.
Adam: Adjusted cash flow generated in the first quarter improved year over year, largely reflecting stronger cash flow from operation in the higher levels of capital investments in the year ago period.
Adam: Sequentially adjusted cash flow generated decreased with lower cash flow from operations and higher financing expenses paid.
Adam: Slide 19 provides detail of our capital investments new investments for the first quarter totaled $24 million for 2025, we continue to forecast approximately one <unk>.
Adam: <unk> $75 million of capital expenditures.
Allan Hogg: Moving now to our Net Debt Reconciliation as detailed on slide 20. Sequentially, our net debt increased by $120 million in the The main reason for the increase is our working capital requirement. Working capital always increases in the first quarter, but this year it was amplified by higher inventories at the end of the period due to softer volume, as explained earlier, and higher raw material. Higher levels of net debt and higher BIDA levels on an LTM basis maintain leverage at 4.2%. Financial ratios and information about maturities are detailed on slide 21.
Adam: Moving now to our net debt reconciliation as detailed on slide 20.
Adam: Sequentially, our net debt increased by $120 million in the first quarter.
Adam: The main reasons for the increases our working capital requirements working capital always increases in the first quarter, but this year. It was amplified by higher inventories at the end of the period due to softer volume as explained earlier and higher raw material.
Adam: Higher levels of net debt and higher EBITDA levels on an LTM basis maintain leverage at four two times.
Adam: Financial ratios and information about maturities are detailed on slide 21.
Allan Hogg: And other information and analysis can be found on slides 25 through 32 of the deck.
Adam: And other information and analysis can be found on slides 25 through 32 of the deck.
Hugues Simon: I will now pass the call back to Hugues, who will conclude with some brief comments before we begin the question period. Thank you, Allan. We have reinitiated near-term guidance this quarter, as our current view is that tariff discussions and levels within North America will evolve in a more measured way. We do, however, remain cautious regarding the impact that outgoing macro uncertainty may have on consumer demand levels.
Adam: I will now pass the call back to Big will conclude with some brief comments before we begin the question period.
Speaker Change: Thank you Alan we are re initiated near term guidance this quarter as our current view is that tariff discussions and levels within North America will evolve in a more measured way. We do however remain cautious regarding the impact of outgoing macro uncertainty may have on consumer demand levels.
Hugues Simon: provide our near term outlook on slide 22. In packaging, we expect higher sequential results to be driven by higher average selling prices. At the end of April, an incident occurred at the third-party steam supplier for our Niagara Falls company. Both mills resume production quickly but are currently limited to approximately 85% of their normal capacity. Our objective is to have these operations back to normal before the end of the year. Given the current economic environment, we are focused on delivering high quality products to our customers. and will make needed production adjustments to align with changes in market.
Adam: We provide our near term outlook on slide 22, and packaging, we expect higher sequential results will be driven by higher average selling prices.
Adam: At the end of April and incident occur as the third party steam supplier quality and Jaeger, a false complex Bolton mills resume production quickly, but are currently limited to approximately 85% of their normal capacity.
Adam: Our objective is to have these operations back to normal before the end of Q2.
Adam: Given the current economic environment, we are focused on delivering high quality projects to our customers and will make needed production adjustments to align with changes in market conditions.
Hugues Simon: We expect results to increase in tissue with higher volumes and pricing initiatives. to offset the impact of ioramidin.
Adam: We expect results to increase in tissue with higher volumes and pricing initiatives to offset the impact of higher raw material costs.
Hugues Simon: Before opening the call to questions, I would like to briefly touch on our strategic priorities. We are pleased with the progress we're making on our commercial, operational, and supply chain excellence work. On the commercial front, our focus is on the ongoing optimization of our product portfolio, supported by a structured go-to-market approach with our In our operation, sustained improvement programs targeting production efficiency continue to be implemented. Supporting both of these workstreams is seamless execution in our supply chain from sales and production planning to transportation and warehousing.
Adam: Before opening the call to questions I would like to briefly touch on our strategic priorities. We are pleased with the progress we're making on our commercial operational and supply chain excellence work streams.
Adam: On the commercial front, our focus is on the ongoing optimization of our product portfolio supported by a structured go to market approach with our customers.
Adam: In our operation sustained improvement programs targeting production efficiency continue to be implemented.
Adam: Supporting both of these work streams is seamless execution in our supply chain from sales and production planning to transportation and warehousing.
Hugues Simon: In early April, we sold our closed-tissue facility in Waterford for $8 million US. Other initiatives are ongoing, and we remain confident that we will be able to achieve our goal of $80 million from the monetization of non-strategic assets in the coming quarters. We have put in place educated expertise that will bear on and sustain. We are making progress but continue to be behind our scheduled ramp up. We have also launched operational initiatives at our Oklahoma Tissue Plant to capitalize on current opportunities. Across our operations, we are focused on high return initiatives, including safety, efficiency, and supply chain improvement.
Adam: In early April we sold our close tissue facility in Waterford, four 8 million U S. Other initiatives are ongoing and we remain confident that we will be able to achieve our goal of $80 million from the monetization of non strategic assets in the coming quarters.
Adam: Lastly.
Adam: We have put in place dedicated expertise of our bear Island facility, we are making progress but continue to be behind our schedule ramp up objective. We are also allows for operational initiatives at our Oklahoma tissue plan to capitalize on current opportunities.
Adam: Across our operations, we are focused on high return initiatives, including safety efficiency and supply chain improvements with that we can now open the call to questions operator.
Hugues Simon: With that, we can now open the call to questions.
Operator: Operator? Merci. Si vous désirez poser une question, veuillez s'il vous plaît composer l'étoile suivie du 1 sur votre clavier téléphonique. Si vous voulez vous retirer, composez l'étoile suivie du 2.
Adam: Mostly so.
Adam: Is there any if it doesn't get there you said will play combos at it twice.
Adam: Also looks like levy telephony, so, but what Dave what's easy.
Adam: <unk> one <unk>.
Operator: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, simply press the star then number 1 on your telephone keypad. And if you would like to withdraw from the question queue, simply press star followed by 2. Again, if you have a question, please press star then 1 on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: Thank you if you'd like to ask a question simply press. The Star then number one on your telephone keypad and if you would like to withdraw from the question queue simply press Star followed by two again if you have a question. Please press Star then one on your telephone keypad, we will pause for just a brief moment to compile the Q&A roster.
Operator: We will pause for just a brief moment to compile the Q&A roster.
Amir Patel: And your first question will be from Amir Patel at CIBC. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning.
Speaker Change: And your first question will be from Amir Patel of CIBC. Please go ahead.
Amir Patel: Hi, good morning.
Hugues Simon: Hugo, it looks like your box shipments in Q1 down 3.6% underperformed both the US and Canadian industry stats. And, you know, I guess that's despite Bear Island still ramping up. So maybe if you speak to what drove the share loss, and if there are any particular end markets that were particularly weak. Thank you for the question, Amir. If you split the converted products between Canada and the US and looking at our operation, roughly 75% of the converted products are coming from Canadian box plant. We did pretty well on the Canadian side, but lagging on the US side.
Speaker Change: It looks like your box shipments in Q1 down three 6% underperformed, both the U S and Canadian industry stats and I guess, that's despite bear island.
Amir Patel: Still ramping up so maybe if you could speak to what drove the share loss.
Speaker Change: And if there are any particular end markets.
Speaker Change: They were particularly weak.
Speaker Change: And thank you for the question Amir if you split the converted products between Canada, and the U S and looking at our operation roughly 75%.
Speaker Change: Of the converted projects are coming from Mac can you Jim box plant.
Speaker Change: We did pretty well on the Canadian side, but lagging under U S site.
Speaker Change: Hi.
Hugues Simon: So when you combine the two together, we're 6% versus 5.8 in the industry. So pretty much in line, a slight decrease in the U.S., but still doing pretty good in Canada. We saw some reduction in some of our customers in Canada in the first quarter. Now, looking ahead, when we look at the business segment, where we like food, packaging and industrial, we see more of a reduction in industrial, which is not the core business of what we do. So we remain confident that a reduction if the business environment remains unknown, it's not going to be a significant one from where we are today.
Speaker Change: So when you combine the two together, we're 6% versus $5 eight in the industry so pretty much in line.
Speaker Change: Slight decrease in the U S but.
Speaker Change: Still doing pretty good in Canada, we saw some reduction in some of our customers in Canada in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Now looking ahead, when we look at the business segment, where we are.
Speaker Change: Food packaging and industrial we see more of a reduction in industrial which is not their core business of what we do so we remain confident that our reduction if the business environment remains unknown is not going to be a significant one from where we are today.
Allan Hogg: And Amir, it's Allan, Amir had that, if you compare to last year over year, the gap is higher. Remember that we closed a couple of units last year. So that reflects that as well, year over year. Right, okay. No, fair enough. Thanks. Thanks for that.
Speaker Change: And I mean, it's Alan EMEA had that if you compare to last year over year that gap is higher.
Speaker Change: Remember that we shall we close a couple of units last year, so that reflects us as well year over year.
Speaker Change: Right, Okay fair enough. Thanks, Thanks for that and then just.
Hugues Simon: And then just, you know, thinking for on a full year basis, you know, given that the weaker Q1 shipments, the Niagara disruptions you mentioned in Q2, and the slower ramp at Bear Island, how do you think about annual container board production? Because at this stage, it looks like it's tracking down year over year, but any visibility you can share there? Oh, I mean, when you look at the tracking for the year, we'll be tracking up. I mean, we provide guidance for the second quarter. When you look at the guidance that we provided, we temper our visibility in Q2.
Speaker Change: On a full year basis.
Speaker Change: Given the weaker Q1 shipments.
Speaker Change: The Niagara disruptions, you mentioned in Q2 and the slower ramp.
Speaker Change: At Bear Island, how should we think about annual.
Speaker Change: Containerboard production because at this stage it looks like it's tracking down year over year, but any visibility shallow.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: No I mean, when you look at the tracking for the year will be we'll be tracking up I mean, we provide guidance for the second quarter.
Speaker Change: When you look at the guidance that we provided we temper our visibility in Q2, we are remaining very cautious with their business environment that being said.
Hugues Simon: We're remaining very cautious with the business environment. That being said, you know, when you look at Q2, and I mean, even for us Q3 and Q4, we're being cautious. But if there's an uptick in demand, we're positioning ourselves so that we'll be able to capture that uptick.
Speaker Change: When you look at Q2, and I mean, even for US two or three in Q4 were being cautious, but if there is an uptick in demand.
Speaker Change: We're positioning ourselves with that we'd be able to capture that uptick.
Hugues Simon: Okay, and there was some commentary in Pulp and Paper week last week of some some pockets of pricing weakness, particularly for medium. Are you seeing kind of similar pressure and if you could just remind us what your mix of line art and to medium is? Yeah, so I mean, all of the price increases that we announced earlier this year, we're, they're implemented, some of them are based on the index, some of them are not, but they're all fully implemented by now. And looking ahead, we're going to adjust our production levels on based on demand. So we don't, you know, we don't see any pressure on pricing reduction.
Speaker Change: Okay and.
Speaker Change: There was some commentary in pulp and paper week last week.
Speaker Change: Some pockets of pricing weakness, particularly for.
Speaker Change: Medium are you seeing kind of similar pressure and if you could just remind us what your mix of liner and medium is.
Speaker Change: Yes, so I mean, all of the price increases that we announced earlier this year.
Speaker Change: They're implemented some of them are based on the index some of them or not but they are all fully implemented by now and looking ahead, we're going to adjust our production levels on the based on demand. So we don't we don't see any pressure on the pricing reduction right now.
Unknown Executive: Okay, and then with Bear Island, where it's ramped right now, what's the sort of breakdown between liner and medium? to the whole company.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then with Bear Island, where it's ramped right now, what's the sort of breakdown between liner and medium.
Speaker Change: For the whole company that breakdown.
Unknown Executive: Well, Sean David, maybe you can answer that. Yeah, no, I mean, we are aiming to the, technically the 65-35, that's approximately what we have. But as Doug mentioned, we may adjust our production to We have good flexibility in Bear Island if we want to switch, but basically the focus now is we're looking at demand, we're getting ready if there's an uptick. When you look at our guiding for Q2, we'll basically remove the seasonal increase for the second quarter. That being said, if that comes in, we'll be able to capture the additional diamond level. As far as Bear Island, we'll be able to maneuver between liner and medium, depending on demand and price.
Speaker Change: Well.
Speaker Change: David maybe you can answer that.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: We are aiming to do.
Speaker Change: Technically they're 65 35 with ADCETRIS.
Speaker Change: But as Doug mentioned, we may adjust our production capacity.
Speaker Change: Okay, and we I'm sorry, the stability, yes, sorry, we have good flexibility and bear island, if we want to switch.
Speaker Change: But basically the focus now is.
Speaker Change: We're looking at demand, we're getting ready if there is an uptick in that because when you look at how we're.
Speaker Change: Guiding for Q2 were basically remove.
Speaker Change: This seasonal.
Speaker Change: Increase for the second quarter and that being said if that comes in we'll be able to capture the additional.
Speaker Change: Additional diamond level and as far as Verizon will be able to maneuver between liner and medium depending on the on demand and pricing levels.
Speaker Change: Okay great.
Unknown Executive: Great.
Unknown Executive: That's all I had.
Unknown Executive: I'll turn it over.
Speaker Change: Thats, all I had I'll turn it over thanks.
Unknown Executive: Thanks.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Sean Stewart: Next question will be from Sean Stewart at TD Cowern. Please go ahead. Thanks. Good morning. Question on the tissue segment. It feels like the volume constraint as we deal with the current economic reality is it's more pronounced Pressure on the away-from-home side than retail.
Speaker Change: Our next question will be from Sean Stewart of TD Cowen. Please go ahead.
Sean Stewart: Thanks, Good morning.
Speaker Change: Question on the tissue segment it feels like the.
Speaker Change: The volume constraints as we deal with the current economic reality, it's more pronounced.
Speaker Change: Pressure on the away from home side, and then retail can you give us a little bit more context on specific element says.
Hugues Simon: Can you give us a little bit more context on specific elements of that and and how volumes or your order file, you know, we have the guidance for Q2, but how you expect volumes to trend through the remainder of the year overall. Yeah, great question. So when you look at Tissue, basically, our split is roughly two-thirds, one-third, with retail versus away from home. On the retail side, late in 2024, we did a strategic switch in some of the customer allocations. So we kind of have a little gap there, which is, it's all implemented and in place.
Speaker Change: That and and how volumes.
Speaker Change: The order file.
Speaker Change: We have the guidance for Q2, but how do you expect volumes to trend through the remainder of the year overall.
Speaker Change: Yeah, Great question. So when you look at tissue basically our our split is roughly two third one third.
Speaker Change: With retail versus away from home on the retail side later in 'twenty 'twenty four we did a strategic switch in some of their customer relocations. So we kind of have a little gap there, which is it's all implemented an in place. So we're very optimistic on the retail side running at the full capacity of what what.
Hugues Simon: So we're very optimistic on the retail side, running at the full capacity of what we have. Now, on the other third, in the away from home, what we saw early in the year is with the threat of tariff, I mean, you look at China, it's roughly 8 to 10% of the consumption in the US. A lot of the away from home, we saw a push from Asia to ship into the US before tariff. So that created some inventory movement. We've also seen some of that in our retail as well, where people were cautious, not too sure where the economy was.
Speaker Change: We have now on the other <unk> in the away from home what we saw early in the year is with the threat of tariffs I mean, you look at China is roughly 8% to 10% of consumption.
Speaker Change: Consumption in the U S. A lot of the away from home, we saw push from from Asia to to ship into the U S. Before tariffs. So that created some inventory movements. We've also seen some of that in our retail as well where people were cautious not too sure where the economy was.
Hugues Simon: And going forward, when you look at the, I mean, most of the tariff are implemented right now for Asia. I mean, we're not pretending they're going to stay at the level they are today, but it is creating some opportunities with Canada and within the US for our own operation to be a more stable and sustainable supplier. Those opportunities are not converted to actual business yet, but we're seeing more traction and more demand from away from home customers, based on the stability that we can provide within Canada. Okay, thanks for that context.
Speaker Change: And going forward when you look at the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Most of the tariff are implemented right now for Asia.
Speaker Change: I mean, we're not pretending they are going to stay at the level. They are today, but it is creating some opportunities with Canada and within the U S for our own operation to be a more stable and sustainable supplier.
Speaker Change: Those opportunity are not converted to actual business, yet, but we're seeing more traction and more demand from away from home customers based on the stability that we can provide within Canada and the U S.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks for that context.
Speaker Change: A question for Alan The January 2026 note maturity.
Allan Hogg: Question for Allan, the January 2026 note maturity. I imagine plans are underway to refinance that. Can you give us a sense of that process and any context on borrowing costs, what that could look like? Yes, we had prepared ourselves last year for that, so we have ample liquidity right now to address that. However, we are considering other alternatives right now to give us more flexibility and to limit the higher costs that borrowing would bring at this time compared to what we have in the notes of 2026. For sure, to renew that with any kind of product, it will be higher than the coupon we have right now.
Speaker Change: Imagine plans are underway to refinance that and can you give us a sense of that process and any context on.
Speaker Change: Borrowing costs, what that could look like.
Speaker Change: Yes, we we had prepared ourselves last year for that so we have.
Speaker Change: Ample liquidity right now to address that however, we are considering other alternatives right now to give us more flexibility and to limit the higher cost debt.
Speaker Change: That borrowing would bring a decline compared to what we have in our in the notes of 2026 for sure.
Speaker Change: To renew that with any kind of prop.
Speaker Change: Product it will be higher than the coupon we have right now so but we're looking at different alternatives right now.
Allan Hogg: But we're looking at different alternatives right now.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Allan Hogg: All right, that's all I have for now. Thanks very much. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Alright, that's all I have for now thanks very much.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Operator: Again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star, the number one on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: Again, if you would like to ask a question. Please press Star then the number one.
Speaker Change: The phone keypad.
Matthew Mckellar: And your next question will be from Matthew McKellar at RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions.
Speaker Change: And your next question will be from Matthew Mckellar RBC capital markets. Please go ahead.
Matthew Mckellar: Hi, Good morning, Thanks for taking my questions first for me I was hoping if you could just provide a bit more color on the ramp up of bear island, and how thats progressing relative to your targets.
Matthew Mckellar: First, for me, I was wondering if you could just provide a bit more color on the ramp up at Bear Island and how that's progressing relative to your targets. Could you help us understand if you made progress sequentially in terms of production levels, and whether you're converging to your targeted ramp up curve at this point? Yeah, so basically, when we if we go back to Q4, we we made significant improvement versus Q3, narrowing the gap between because the ramp up curve keeps keeps going up. First quarter was was difficult at Bear Island. When you look at where we want to be versus where we are, we're back to the roughly 20% of the target ramp up line.
Speaker Change: Could you help us understand if you've made progress sequentially in terms of production levels and whether you are converging to your targeted ramp up curve at this point.
Speaker Change: Yes, so basically when we if we go back to Q4, we made significant improvements versus Q3.
Speaker Change: Knowing the gap between because the ramp up curve keeps keeps going up first.
Speaker Change: First quarter was that was difficult at bear island when.
Speaker Change: When you look at where we want to be versus where we are we're back to their roughly 20% of the target ramp up line.
Hugues Simon: So, we made some actions early in the year to provide additional technical support and internal help and remaining focused to to catch up before the end of the year. We're seeing, you know, mail operating really well, but when we have a breakdown, it takes too much time to to go back up quality.
Speaker Change: We made some actions early in the year to provide additional technical support.
Speaker Change: And our internal health and remaining focused to to catch up before the end of the year we're seeing.
Speaker Change: Mill operating really well, but when we have a breakdown it takes too much time to.
Speaker Change: To go back up.
Hugues Simon: Very good. Customers continue to accept GreenPak or Bear Island as a substitution. So, very pleased with the with the quality, very pleased with the way the mail is running when it's running and the quality and the speed it's doing. But the, the efficiency when it stops, it, it takes too much time. So, we're addressing that with some internal and external support right.
Speaker Change: Quality very good customers continue to accept green back or Brian as a substitution so very pleased with the with the quality.
Speaker Change: Very pleased with the way the mill is running when it's running in the quality and the speed it's doing but.
Speaker Change: The efficiency when it stops it it takes too much time, so we're addressing that with some internal and external support right now.
Hugues Simon: Great. Thanks for that, Keller. Last for me, you mentioned expecting favorable OCC pricing in the coming months.
Speaker Change: Great Thanks for that color.
Speaker Change: Last for me.
Speaker Change: You mentioned expecting favorable OCC pricing in the coming months.
Hugues Simon: Can you maybe just provide a bit more detail around the conditions you're seeing in that market and what's informing your expectations on this? Yeah. Basically, I mean, I'll focus on like, Northeast and Southeast when you look at Just the event that we have at our Niagara operation, it's about 300 tons a day of production and we expect to be back before the end of the quarter. But when you look at that, it is just that, a reduction in demand in the region. So we see that for the Northeast to be positive. Also, when you look at the availability, the level of inventory that we have and also the to ship to Asia, we feel that there's still some positive tailwind for us on the OCC.
Speaker Change: Can you, maybe just provide a bit more detail around the conditions, you're seeing in that market and what's informing your expectations on this front.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Basically I mean, our focus on northeast and southeast when you look at.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: The EBIT just the event that we have at our Niagara operation.
Speaker Change: It's about 300 tons, a day of production and we expect to be back before the end of the quarter, but when you look at that it is just that a reduction in demand in the region. So we see that for the northeast to be positive also when you look at the availability the level of inventory that we have.
Speaker Change: Also the ability.
Speaker Change: To ship to Asia, we feel that there is still some some positive.
Speaker Change: <unk> for us on the OCC cost.
Matthew Mckellar: Okay, thanks very much for that detail. I'll pass it back. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thanks, very much for that detail I'll pass it back.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Hugues Simon: Next question will be from Jonathan Goldman at Scotiabank. Please go ahead. Hi, good morning team, thanks for taking my questions. Just to clarify to start off, Hugues, did you say it was your expectation for container board shipments to be up this year? You being up versus last year? Yeah, your shipments year on year comparison. Yeah, so when we look at from now until the end of the year, we're going flat, second quarter flat. And when I look at the economy right now, we're being very cautious, so not looking at any uptake from last year. That being said, and that may be a bit of the clarification that I need to do is, if there's an uptake in demand, we'll be able to capture it with the assets that we have, because we'll be able to produce it and to ship it.
Speaker Change: Next question will be from Jonathan Goldman at Scotiabank. Please go ahead.
Jonathan Goldman: Hi, Good morning team. Thanks for taking my questions just to clarify to start off did you say it was your expectation for containerboard shipments to be up this year.
Jonathan Goldman: You were being up versus versus last year.
Jonathan Goldman: Yes, your shipments year on year comparison.
Jonathan Goldman: Yes, so when we look at from now until the end of the year, we were going flat second quarter flat and when I look at that.
Jonathan Goldman: Economy right now, we're being very cautious so so not looking at any uptake from from last year that being said.
Jonathan Goldman: And that may be a bit of the.
Jonathan Goldman: Diversification that I need to do is if there is an uptick in demand will be able to capture it with the assets that we have.
Jonathan Goldman: Because we'll be able to produce it and to ship it but right now what we're seeing is more stable and in our guidance for Q2.
Hugues Simon: But right now, what we're seeing is more stable. And in our guiding for Q2, we've put no seasonal upswing, given the economic uncertainty.
Jonathan Goldman: We've put no seasonal upswing.
Jonathan Goldman: Even the economic uncertainty.
Unknown Executive: Perfect. That's very clear.
Jonathan Goldman: Perfect that's very clear.
Hugues Simon: And are you able to quantify the impact of the outage to April's volumes or any way you want to talk about it? Yeah, I mean, do you mean the Niagara Falls company? correct, or any other outages on this. Okay, 900,000 a week. So we're looking at this on a day-by-day basis. So we're really pushing with our third-party partner to put that back in full operation ASAP. Maybe a detail that could be of interest for people is they also burn garbage from the city of New York. So there is a lot of support to restart these things ASAP.
Jonathan Goldman: And are you able to quantify the impact of the outage to april's volumes or any way you want to talk about it.
Jonathan Goldman: Yes.
Jonathan Goldman: Do you mean the yes.
Jonathan Goldman: <unk>.
Jonathan Goldman: Correct or any other outages I'm missing here.
Jonathan Goldman: Okay 900000, a week. So we're looking at this on a day by day basis. So we're really pushing with our third party partner.
Jonathan Goldman: With that back in.
Jonathan Goldman: In full operation.
Jonathan Goldman: <unk>.
Jonathan Goldman: EMEA detail that could be of interest for people is.
Jonathan Goldman: They also burn.
Jonathan Goldman: <unk> from the city of New York. So there is a lot of Vista.
Jonathan Goldman: The support to restart these things Asap.
Unknown Executive: Interesting.
Speaker Change: Okay interesting and then I guess one more for me.
Hugues Simon: And then I guess one more for me, in container board, or maybe in tissue as well, do you have a sense of where customer inventories are sitting the levels? Are they above or below or in line with historical inventories that they usually keep on hand? Yeah, I would say I mean, globally flat. Some of the retail for tissue even went a bit down and by the end of the third quarter of the sorry, the first quarter. But overall, I would say it's pretty flat the there might be in the system a bit of import in a way from home tissue from from China ahead of the tariff.
Speaker Change: Containerboard or maybe in tissue as well do you have a sense of where customer inventories are sitting the levels are they above or below or in line with historical inventories that they use to keep on hand.
Speaker Change: Yes, I would say globally flat.
Speaker Change: The retail for tissue, even when a bit down and by the end of the third quarter I'm sorry, the first quarter.
Speaker Change: But overall I would say it's pretty flat.
Speaker Change: There might be in the system a bit of imports in the away from home tissue from from China, and the tariffs, but we feel that as a short term thing that because we're already seeing some opportunities there to as I mentioned before is that as a more safe option within Canada and the U S for the American market.
Hugues Simon: But we feel that's a short term thing that because we're already seeing some opportunities there to, as I mentioned before, as a as a more safe option within Canada in the US for the American market. Okay, and relative to historical levels, are the container board volumes and tissue volumes kind of in line with the amount of inventory people keep on hand? I will assess that to be in line, not higher. Perfect. Thanks for the questions, guys. I'll get back to you. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Okay, and relative to historical levels or the containerboard volumes and tissue volumes kind of in line with the amount of inventory people keep on hand.
Speaker Change: We will assess that to be in line.
Speaker Change: Higher.
Speaker Change: Perfect. Thanks for the questions guys I'll get back in queue.
Thank you.
Zachary Evershed: Next question will be from Zachary Evershed at National Bank Financial. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Morning.
Speaker Change: Next question will be from Zachary <unk> at National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Thank you good morning, everyone.
Speaker Change: Good morning, good morning.
Hugues Simon: You mentioned the opportunity to be that safe domestic supplier, what do you think it takes to turn that opportunity into traction on actual business? And if, if the tariffs on Asia are quickly dropped, do you think that opportunity disappears? Yeah, a great question. I mean, first of all, I would say it takes time. It will take some of the imports to go down a little bit. And no, I don't think that that goes away without the tariff, because this is so unpredictable, the business environment that we have right now. And it's ever changing. It's the speed of change is quite amazing.
Speaker Change: You mentioned the opportunity to repeat that safe domestic supplier. What do you think it takes to turn that opportunity into traction on actual business and it.
Speaker Change: If the tariffs on Asia quickly dropped and do you think that opportunity disappears.
Speaker Change: Yes, a great question I mean.
Speaker Change: First of all I would say it takes time.
Speaker Change: It will take some of the.
Speaker Change: Imports to.
Speaker Change: To go down a little bit.
Speaker Change: No I don't thing that goes away and we've done the tariff because it is so unpredictable business environment that we have right now and it's ever changing at the speed of change is quite.
Speaker Change: Amazing.
Hugues Simon: We're even looking at that in our own operation, because I mean, we use thousands of suppliers for many things. And the importance of being able to rely on secure supply is critical for us. And it's also critical for many of our customer partner. So being close to home, being close to our customers, we feel that whether tariffs stay or not, it is an opportunity. And that's Helpful Things.
Speaker Change: We're even looking at that in our own operation because we use thousands of suppliers for many things and the importance of being able to rely on the secure supply is critical for us and it's also critical for many of our customer partner, so being close to home being close to our customers we feel.
Speaker Change: Feel that whether it's tariffs stay or not.
Speaker Change: It is an opportunity for us.
Speaker Change: That's helpful. Thanks.
Hugues Simon: And then last quarter, we were talking about restructuring logistics to mitigate the impact of tariffs. Are those on hold at the moment? Obviously, you would have taken action on the ones that had little costs associated with them. How far advanced are you in your scenario modeling at this point and ready to pull the trigger on various actions? Yeah. So, uh, I mean. In summary, we're on hold. It's interesting how these situations sometimes, you know, you find pockets of potential improvements that you can actually keep. So we saw a bit of those, not that it's significant, but you know, it reminds everybody that we need to rethink the way we do business all the time.
Speaker Change: And then last quarter, you were talking about restructuring logistics to mitigate the impact of tariffs.
Speaker Change: Are those on hold at the moment, obviously, you would have taken action on the ones that had little costs associated with them. How far advanced are you in your scenario modeling at this point.
Speaker Change: Maybe to pull the trigger on various actions yet.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: In summary, we're on hold.
Speaker Change: It's interesting all of these situations, sometimes you find pockets of the potential improvements that you can actually keep so.
Speaker Change: So we saw a bit of dose not that it's significant but it reminds everybody that we need to rethink the way we do business all the time.
Hugues Simon: But from, you know, the big bucket there is on the raw material. I mean, we've done a lot of work on pulp supply and some of that's going to stick and it's going to stay because it's creating some more permanent financial opportunities for us. On the OCC side, I mean, we're ready for swaps to make sure that if ever tariff will come back, we don't have to cross the border as much as you probably know. We have a lot of our operation in the New York state and some of our supply comes from Ontario. So we can do some swaps with others to avoid the border if that's necessary.
Speaker Change: But from that.
Speaker Change: The big bucket there is on the raw material I mean, we've done a lot of work on the on pulp.
Speaker Change: Apply and some of that's going to stick and it's going to stay because it's creating some.
Speaker Change: More permanent.
Speaker Change: Financial opportunities for us on the OCC side I mean, we're we're ready for swaps, who make sure that if February tariff would come back.
Speaker Change: We don't have to cross the border as much as as you probably know we have a lot of our operation in new.
Speaker Change: New York State and some of our supply comes from Ontario. So we can do some some swaps with other to avoid the border if that's necessary and on their roles.
Hugues Simon: And on the rolls, we can swap rolls as well with qualified products. So that's a bit of additional cost in the first quarter, nothing significant, but we're ready with some of our competitors to do a swap in rolls as well to make sure that we reduce exposure to the border if necessary. Very interesting. Thank you.
Speaker Change: We can swap roles as well we've qualified projects. So that's a bit of additional cost in the first quarter nothing significant but we are ready with some of our competitors to do a swap enrollees as well to make sure that we reduce exposure to the border if necessary.
Speaker Change: Very interesting thank you.
Hugues Simon: And then you mentioned earlier that you weren't seeing much pressure on selling prices, if any at all, to give us your thoughts on IP's recent milk closure, the kind of downbeat commentary we're hearing from market participants, and how you square that with the supply demand balance versus pricing. I'm not going to comment on the competitors. But when we look at our system, what we do, I mean, if we see a reduction in in the mill levels, we'll address accordingly, just the fact that we'll be shaving roughly 300 tons a day in the Niagara complex for, you know, at least the month of April, sorry, not April, at least the month of May, and maybe a bit into into June.
Speaker Change: And then you mentioned earlier that you weren't seeing much pressure on selling prices if any at all could you give us your thoughts on Ips recent mill closure.
Speaker Change: Downbeat commentary, we're hearing from market participants and how you square that with the supply demand balance versus pricing.
Speaker Change: I'm not going to comment on the competitors, but when we look at our system. What we do I mean, if we see a reduction in demand levels, we'll adjust accordingly, just the fact that.
Speaker Change: We'll be shaving roughly 300 tons, a day and Jaeger a complex for.
Speaker Change: At least the month of April sorry on April the month of May and maybe a bit into into June.
Speaker Change: That's that's also volume.
Hugues Simon: That's, that's also volume. I mean, we we sped up a bit of some of the maintenance shut down because if it's quiet, we'll do some of that. But our intention is to reduce our working capital in the second quarter. Allan talked about our inventory levels that were up. If we step back a bit and go back to the fourth quarter, we ran our assets a bit more. Some of the Christmas usual downtime was reduced because at the time the movement and the order file was a lot stronger. So we'll make the necessary step to make sure that we put back our inventory in line and adjust accordingly after that if we see that the min levels are not at the level that we expected.
Speaker Change: I mean, we.
Speaker Change: We sped up a bit of some of the maintenance shutdown because if it's quiet we will do some of that.
Speaker Change: Our intention is to reduce our working capital in the second quarter, and then talked about our inventory levels that were up.
Speaker Change: If we step back a bit and go back to the four quarter, we ran our assets a bit more.
Speaker Change: Some of that Christmas usual downtime was reduced because the at.
Speaker Change: At the time the movement in the order file was a lot stronger so we'll make the necessary step to make sure that we pulled back our inventory in line and adjust accordingly after that if we see that demand levels are not.
Speaker Change: At the level that we expect.
Unknown Executive: Keller. Thanks.
Unknown Executive: I'll turn it over.
Speaker Change: Thanks, I'll turn it over.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Hugues Simon: And at this time, Mr. Simon, we have no other questions registered. Please continue.
Speaker Change: And at this time Mr. <unk>, we have no other questions registered please continue.
Allan Hogg: Yes, I'll let Allan speak for a bit. Yes, good morning everyone. So you saw that we provided the new segmented information with the packaging business. So this reflects reflect how we are organized internally. So the old container board now is that the packaging group now consists of the old container board business, including also we added into that the URB business we had in specialty products. So you'll see that the volume reflects that right now. We have provided sales by product, mainly paper rolls, corrugated and others. So, and we got a few comments this morning and we will provide additional information about EBITDA.
Speaker Change: Yes, I'll, let Allen before but yes.
Speaker Change: Wondering are there ones. So you saw that we've provided new segmented information with.
Speaker Change: The packaging business. So this reflects.
Speaker Change: Reflect how we are organized internally so.
Speaker Change: The old containerboard now.
Speaker Change: Is.
Speaker Change: The packaging group now consists of the old containerboard business, including also we added into that the <unk> business, we had in specialty products. So.
Speaker Change: Youll see that the volume reflects that right now we have provided sales by product.
Mainly paper rose corrugated and others.
Speaker Change: So and we got a few comments this morning, and we will provide additional information about EBITDA.
Allan Hogg: We will provide information with the paper and corrugated together and the line of others. So, for Q1, the 109 million dollars in packaging is split with 96 million for paper rolls and corrugated. We will not provide details on those and 13 million for the other segment within packaging. So we will add this information into our investor presentation and you'll see more information into our MD&E later today. So we will provide that for everyone to be able to assess the performance of our packaging business.
Speaker Change: We will provide information with the paper and corrugated together and the line of others. So for Q1, the $109 million in packaging is split.
Speaker Change: With $96 million for paper Rolls in corrugated we will not provide details on dose and $13 million for the other.
Speaker Change: Segment within packaging, so we will.
Speaker Change: Adam.
Speaker Change: This information into our Investor presentation, and Youll see more information into our MD&A later today, So we will provide.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: For everyone.
Speaker Change: Able to assess the performance of our packaging business.
Hugues Simon: Thank you, Allan. I mean, the objective of this is also to me to to make it more clear for for people to do some some guiding and going forward. So looking forward for the calls with some of the the analysts and thank you for your.
Speaker Change: Thank you Adam I mean, the objective of this is also to to make it more clear for people to do some some guiding and going forward. So looking forward for our calls with some of the analysts and thank you for your time.
Unknown Executive: Thank you, sir.
Speaker Change: Thank you Sir.
Speaker Change: My name is Ms. Susan <unk>.
Speaker Change: Michael Hsing.
Unknown Executive: Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call you may now disconnect.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Okay.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Okay.