Q1 2025 Radian Group Inc Earnings Call

Operator: Good day and thank you for standing by.

Good day and thank you for standing by welcome to the first quarter 2025, Radian Group Conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode.

Operator: Welcome to the first quarter 2025 Radian Group conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode.

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Operator: Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

Speaker Change: Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded I would now like to hand, the conference over to your speaker today, Dan Cobell head of Investor Relations and capital management. Please go ahead.

Daniel Kobell: I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Dan Kobell, Head of Investor Relations and Capital Management. Please go ahead.

Daniel Kobell: Thank you and welcome to Radian's first quarter 2025 conference call. Our press release, which contains Radian's financial results for the quarter, was issued yesterday evening and is posted to the investor section of our website at radian.com. This press release includes certain non-GAAP measures that may be discussed during today's call, including adjusted pre-tax operating income, adjusted diluted net operating income per share, and adjusted net operating return on equity.

Speaker Change: Thank you and welcome to Radians first quarter 2025 conference call. Our press release, which contains radians financial results for the quarter was issued yesterday evening and is posted to the investors section of our website at Radian Dot com.

Speaker Change: This press release includes certain non-GAAP measures that may be discussed during today's call, including adjusted pretax operating income adjusted diluted net operating income per share.

Speaker Change: <unk> net operating return on equity.

Daniel Kobell: A complete description of all of our non-GAAP measures may be found in Press Release Exhibit F, and reconciliations of these measures to the most comparable GAAP measures may be found in Press Release Exhibit G. These exhibits are on the Investors section of our website.

Speaker Change: A complete description of all of our non-GAAP measures maybe found in press release exhibit F and reconciliations of these measures to the most comparable GAAP measures maybe found in press release exhibit G. These exhibits are on the investors section of our website.

Daniel Kobell: Today, you will hear from Rick Thornberry, Radian's Chief Executive Officer and Sumita Pandit, President and Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that comments made during this call will include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on current expectations, estimates, projections, and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual results to differ materially.

Speaker Change: Today, you will hear from Rick Thornberry, Radians, Chief Executive Officer, and submit dependent President and Chief Financial Officer.

Speaker Change: Before we begin I would like to remind you that comments made during this call will include forward looking statements. These statements are based on current expectations estimates projections and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties, which may cause actual results to differ materially.

Daniel Kobell: For a discussion of these risks, please review the cautionary statements regarding forward-looking statements included in our earnings release, and the risk factors included in our 2024 Form 10-K and subsequent reports filed with the SEC. These are also available on our website.

Speaker Change: For a discussion of these risks. Please review the cautionary statements regarding forward looking statements included in our earnings release and the risk factors included in our 2024 Form 10-K, and subsequent reports filed with the SEC. These are also available on our website now I would like to turn the call over to Rick.

Richard Thornberry: Now, I would like to turn the call over to Rick. Good morning, and thank you all for joining us today. I am pleased to report a strong start to the year for Radian. Our results demonstrate the continued strength of our high quality mortgage insurance enforced portfolio, as well as our ongoing strategic focus on capital and expense management. I will start by sharing a few financial and business highlights. We increased book value per share by 11% year over year, generating net income of $145 million in the first quarter and delivering a return on equity of 12.6%.

Rick Thornberry: Good morning, and thank you all for joining US today I am pleased to report a strong start to the year for radiant our results demonstrate the continued strength of our high quality mortgage insurance in force portfolio as well as our ongoing strategic focus on capital and expense Spanish but.

Rick Thornberry: I will start by sharing a few financial and business highlights we increased book value per share by 11% year over year generating net income of $145 million in the first quarter and delivering a return on equity of 12, 6%.

Richard Thornberry: Our primary mortgage insurance in force, which is the main driver of future earnings for our company, ended the quarter at $274 billion. Our insurance and force benefited from the 86% persistency rate in the first quarter driven by continued elevated interest rates. which remains significantly higher than the majority of the prevailing mortgage rates in our insured portfolio. Our portfolio continued to show positive trends in terms of new defaults and cures, consistent with our expectations for seasonality and resulting in a decline in our default rate. We continue to strategically manage capital by maintaining strong holding company liquidity of $834 million and a PMIRS cushion for rating guarantee of $2.1 billion as of the end of the quarter.

Rick Thornberry: Our primary mortgage insurance in force, which is the main driver of future earnings for our company ended the quarter at $274 billion.

Rick Thornberry: Our insurance in force benefited from the 86% persistency rate in the first quarter driven by continued elevated interest rates.

Rick Thornberry: Which remains significantly higher than the majority of the prevailing mortgage rates in our insured portfolio.

Rick Thornberry: Our portfolio continued to show positive trends in terms of new defaults secures consistent with our expectations for seasonality and resulting in a decline in our default rate.

Rick Thornberry: We continue to strategically manage capital by maintaining strong holding company liquidity.

Rick Thornberry: $834 million and our Pmiers cushion for rating guarantee of $2 1 billion as at the end of the quarter.

Richard Thornberry: while expecting to continue to pay distributions from Radian Guarantee to Radian Group and paying the highest yielding dividend in the industry to stockholders. During the quarter, we took advantage of market volatility, repurchasing $207 million of shares, representing more than 4% of shares outstanding, with a total return of capital to stockholders, including dividends of $244 million. Consistent with our strong track record of capital return at Radian, we continue to view share repurchases as an attractive use of capital, further enhanced by our continued positive outlook for our business.

Rick Thornberry: While expecting to continue to pay distributions from Radian guaranty to Radian group and paying the highest yielding dividend and the industry to stockholders.

Rick Thornberry: During the quarter, we took advantage of market volatility repurchasing $207 million of shares.

Rick Thornberry: Presenting more than 4% of shares outstanding with a total return of capital to stockholders, including dividends up $244 million.

Rick Thornberry: Consistent with our strong track record of capital return to Radian, we continue to view share repurchases as an attractive use of capital further enhanced by our continued positive outlook for our business submit that will provide additional detail on our repurchase activity and plans.

Richard Thornberry: Sumita will provide additional detail on our repurchase activity and plan. Consistent with our use of risk distribution strategies to effectively manage capital and proactively mitigate risk, in April, Rating Guarantee agreed to very attractive terms on an innovative multi-year quota share reinsurance structure with a large and diversified panel of third party reinsurance providers. We appreciate the support and commitment that our growing group of reinsurance partners demonstrated to achieve this market-leading structure.

Rick Thornberry: Consistent with our use of risk distribution strategies to effectively manage capital and proactively mitigate risk.

Rick Thornberry: In April Radian Guaranty agreed to very attractive terms on an innovative multi year quota share reinsurance structure with a large and diversified panel of third party reinsurance providers.

Rick Thornberry: We appreciate the support and commitment that our growing group of reinsurance partners demonstrated to achieve this market leading structure. We believe the results reflect the quality of our mortgage insurance business, leveraging our proprietary data and analytics combined with our talented and experienced team at high quality customer relationships submitted will provide.

Richard Thornberry: We believe the results reflect the quality of our mortgage insurance business, leveraging our proprietary data and analytics, combined with our talented and experienced team and high-quality customer relationships.

Richard Thornberry: Sumita will provide more details in a few minutes. We continue our focus on managing operational efficiency, reducing our other operating expenses by 7% year over year and 12% from the fourth quarter of 2024. We remain positioned to achieve our target of reduction in run rate operating expenses this year. We are pleased that our strong financial position and capital flexibility allow us to deliver excellent financial results and help our customers transform risk into opportunity, while also returning value to our stockholders. In terms of the housing and mortgage market, we expect that the ongoing supply shortage combined with pent-up demand from first-time homebuyers will continue to provide support for home value.

Rick Thornberry: More details in a few minutes.

Rick Thornberry: We continued our focus on managing the operational efficiency, reducing our other operating expenses by 7% year over year and 12% from the fourth quarter of 2024.

Rick Thornberry: We remain positioned to achieve our targeted reduction in run rate operating expenses this year.

Rick Thornberry: We are pleased that our strong financial position and capital flexibility allow us to deliver excellent financial results and help our customers transform risk into opportunity.

Rick Thornberry: While also returning value to our stockholders.

Rick Thornberry: In terms of the housing and mortgage market.

Rick Thornberry: We expect that the ongoing supply shortage combined with pent up demand for first time homebuyers will continue to provide support for home values. The.

Richard Thornberry: The private mortgage insurance market has been relatively flat over the past two years at approximately $300 billion. Looking ahead, based on recent industry forecasts, we expect a market in 2025 that is in line with recent years. I believe it's also worth noting the continuing positive impact that we're experiencing from the current interest rate environment in terms of supporting our investment portfolio income and a higher persistency rate for our insurance and force. As I mentioned, the credit performance of our portfolios continue to be strong, and in April, our default inventory continued to decline, with cures exceeding new defaults.

Rick Thornberry: The private mortgage insurance market has been relatively flat over the past two years at approximately 300 billion.

Rick Thornberry: Looking ahead based on recent industry forecast.

Rick Thornberry: We expect the market in 2025 that is in line with recent years.

Rick Thornberry: I believe it's also worth noting the continuing positive impact that we are experiencing from the current interest rate environment in terms of supporting our investment portfolio income and a higher persistency rate for our insurance in force.

Rick Thornberry: As I mentioned the credit performance of our portfolios continue to be strong and in April our default inventory continue to decline with curious exceeding new defaults.

Richard Thornberry: However, given the recent volatility in the financial markets resulting specifically from the uncertainties from tariff and global trade policies, we continue to closely monitor the impact on our business, including any changes to unemployment or other trends that may impact the credit environment. Overall, our outlook for the housing market and our mortgage insurance business remain positive. Finally, as we work with the new administration, we continue to be encouraged by the bipartisan support on Capitol Hill for our industry as the only source of permanent private capital in front of U.S. taxpayers, consistently underwriting mortgage credit risk through the market cycles.

Rick Thornberry: However, given the recent volatility in the financial markets, resulting specifically from the uncertainties from tariff and global trade policies. We continue to closely monitor the impact on our business, including any changes to unemployment.

Rick Thornberry: There are other trends that may impact the credit environment.

Rick Thornberry: Overall, our outlook for the housing market and our mortgage insurance business remain positive.

Rick Thornberry: Finally, as we work with the New administration, we continue to be encouraged by the bipartisan support on Capitol Hill for our industry as the only source of permanent private capital in front of us taxpayers consistently underwriting mortgage credit risk through the market cycles.

Richard Thornberry: Our private mortgage insurance products helps to alleviate one of the largest hurdles to homeownership, overcoming the financial burden of a down payment. In fact, our industry has helped millions of homeowners to purchase their home or refinance their mortgage. It is well positioned to continue promoting affordable, sustainable homeownership through various economic cycles. We believe this is well understood by and in alignment with the FHFA, GSEs, and legislators. As you've heard me say before, our mortgage insurance business model has been significantly strengthened by the P. Myers Capital Framework, dynamic risk-based pricing, and the distribution of risk, allowing our industry to continuously serve our important role in the housing finance system.

Rick Thornberry: Our private mortgage insurance products helps to alleviate one of the largest hurdles to homeownership overcoming the financial burden of a downpayment in fact, our industry has helped millions of homeowners to purchase a home or refinance their mortgage and is well positioned to continue promoting affordable sustainable homeownership.

Rick Thornberry: Through various economic cycles.

Rick Thornberry: We believe this is well understood by and in alignment with the FHFA <unk> and legislators.

Rick Thornberry: As you've heard me say before our mortgage insurance business model has been significantly strengthened by the P. Myers capital framework dynamic risk based pricing and the distribution of risk, allowing our industry to continuously serve our important role in the housing finance system.

Sumita Pandit: Sumita will now cover the details of our financial and capital position. Thank you, Rick, and good morning to you all. We started the year with another strong quarter of operating results, producing net income of $145 million or $0.98 per diluted share, consistent with the $0.98 per diluted share reported in the fourth quarter 2024. Adjusted diluted net operating income per share was slightly higher at $0.99 for the first quarter compared to $1.08 in the previous quarter. We generated a return on equity of 12.6%, reflecting the strong fundamentals of our business, and grew book value per share 11% year over year to $32.48.

Speaker Change: <unk> will now cover the details of our financial and capital positions.

Speaker Change: Thank you Nick and good morning to you all.

Speaker Change: We started with another strong quarter of operating results producing net income of $145 million or <unk> 98 cents per diluted share consistent with the 98 cents per diluted share reported in the fourth quarter 2024.

Speaker Change: Adjusted diluted net operating income per share was slightly higher at 99 cents for the first quarter compared to $1 eight in the previous quarter.

Speaker Change: We generated a return on equity of 12, 6%, reflecting the strong fundamentals of our business and glue book value per share, 11%, Italy to $32.48. This book value per share growth is in addition to our regular stockholder dividends, which were $37 million during the quarter.

Sumita Pandit: This book value per share growth is in addition to our regular stockholder dividends, which were $37 million during the quarter. We also repurchased $207 million of shares during the first quarter, demonstrating our commitment to returning excess capital.

Speaker Change: We also repurchased $207 million of shares during the first quarter, demonstrating our commitment to returning excess capital.

Sumita Pandit: Turning now to the detailed drivers of our results, our revenues continued to be strong in the first quarter. We generated $318 million of total revenues during the quarter, a slight increase from the fourth quarter of last year. Slides 10 through 12 in our presentation include details on our Mortgage Insurance Inforced Portfolio, as well as other key factors impacting our net premiums earned. We generated $234 million in net premiums earned in the quarter, consistent with the prior quarter. Our large, high-quality, primary Mortgage Insurance Enforced Portfolio grew year-over-year to $274 billion as of the end of the first quarter.

Speaker Change: Turning now to the detailed drivers of our results.

Speaker Change: Our revenues continued to be strong in the first quarter, we generated $318 million of total revenues during the quarter, a slight increase from the fourth quarter of last year slide.

Speaker Change: Slides 10 through 12 in our presentation include details on our mortgage insurance in force portfolio as well as other key factors impacting our net premium side, we generated $234 million and net premiums earned in the quarter.

Speaker Change: With the prior quarter.

Speaker Change: Large high quality primary mortgage insurance in force portfolio grew year over year.

Speaker Change: $274 billion as of the end of the first quarter <unk>.

Sumita Pandit: We wrote $9.5 billion of new insurance written in the first quarter of 2025, which was lower compared to the fourth quarter of 2024, primarily due to a smaller origination market. As interest rates remain elevated, they also continue to benefit the persistency rate of our existing insurance in force, which highlights the balance and resiliency of our business model. As shown on slide 10, our persistency rate increased to 86% this quarter, which was the second highest rate we observed in over 10 years. We remain focused on writing NIW that we believe will generate future earnings and economic value while effectively maintaining the portfolio's health, balance, and profitability.

Speaker Change: <unk> nine under $5 billion of new insurance written in the first quarter of 2025, which was lower compared to the fourth quarter of 2024, primarily due to a smaller origination market.

As interest rates remain elevated they also continued to benefit the persistency rate of our existing insurance in force, which highlights the balance and resiliency of our business model.

Speaker Change: As shown on slide 10.

Speaker Change: System fee rate increased to 86% this quarter, which was the second highest rate observed in over 10 years.

Speaker Change: We remain focused on writing in IW that we believe will generate future earnings and economic value.

Speaker Change: Actively maintaining the portfolio's health and profitability.

Sumita Pandit: As of the end of the first quarter, approximately two-thirds of our insurance in force had a mortgage rate of 6% or less. Given current mortgage interest rates, these policies are less likely to cancel due to refinancing in the near term, and we therefore continue to expect our persistency rate to remain strong. As shown on slide 12, the in-force premium yield for our mortgage insurance portfolio remains stable as expected at 38 basis points, and we expect the in-force premium yield to remain generally stable for the remainder of the year as well.

Speaker Change: As of the end of the first quarter approximately two thirds of our insurance in force hydro mortgage at eight 6% or less given current market interest rates. These policies are less likely to cancel due to refinancing in the near term and we therefore continue to expect our persistency rates to remain strong.

Speaker Change: As shown on slide 12, the imports premium yield for our mortgage insurance portfolio remains stable as expected at 38 basis points and we expect the in force premium yield to remain generally stable for the remainder of the year.

Sumita Pandit: As shown on slide 13, our investment portfolio of $6.3 billion consists of well diversified, highly rated securities and other high quality assets. We generated net investment income of $69 million in the first quarter. Included in this net investment income was $6 million of income related to residential mortgage loans held for sale within Radian Mortgage Capital. Compared to prior quarter, the decline in net investment income is primarily driven by lower mortgage loans held for sale. Our unrealized net loss on investments reflected in stockholders' equity was $295 million at quarter end. We continue to expect that our strong liquidity and cash flow position will provide us with the ability to hold these securities to recovery of the remaining unrealized losses, which would equate to $2.09 that is expected to accrete back into our book value per share over time.

Speaker Change: As shown on slide 13, our investment portfolio of $6 $3 billion consists of well diversified highly rated securities and other high quality assets, we generated net investment income of $69 million in the first quarter included in this net investment income was $6 million of income related to rest.

Speaker Change: Potential mortgage loans held for sale within radian mortgage catheter compared to prior quarter. The decline in net investment income was primarily driven by lower mortgage loans held for sale.

Speaker Change: Alright, unrealized net loss on investments reflected in stockholders equity was $295 million at quarter end, we continue to expect that our strong liquidity and cash flow position will provide us with the ability to hold these securities to recovery of the remaining unrealized losses, which would equate to $2 nine that is.

Speaker Change: Expected to accrete back into our book value per share over time.

Sumita Pandit: I will now move on to our provision for losses and related credit trends, which continue to be positive with strong cure activity and very low claim levels. On slide 16, we provide trends for our primary default inventory. Total defaults decreased to approximately 23,000 loans at quarter end, resulting in a portfolio default rate of 2.33% compared to 2.44% in the previous quarter. The number of new defaults reported to us by services declined to approximately 12,500 in the first quarter, compared to approximately 14,000 reported in the fourth quarter, a decline of 10%. This quarterly decline in new defaults reflects typical seasonal trends as well as lower defaults in areas associated with Hurricane Selene and Milton.

Speaker Change: I will now move on to our provision for losses and related credit trends, which continue to be positive with strong cure activity and very low claim levels.

Speaker Change: On slide 16, we provide trends for our primary default inventory colder defaults decreased to approximately 23000 loans at quarter end, resulting in a portfolio of default rate of 233% compared to two 4% in the previous quarter.

Speaker Change: The number of new defaults reported to us by services declined to approximately 12500 in the first quarter compared to approximately 14000 reported in the fourth quarter a decline of 10%.

This quarterly decline in new defaults reflects typical seasonal trends as well as lower defaults and Adas associated with Hurricanes Helene and melted.

Sumita Pandit: Excluding those hurricane impacted areas, new defaults still declined by 7% in the first quarter compared to prior quarter. It is important to note that our new defaults continue to contain significant embedded equity, which has been a key driver of recent favorable trends, including higher cure rates and reduced severity for policies that result in claim submission. In addition, the total number of cures in the first quarter grew 13% compared to the fourth quarter. Cure rates continue to be really strong with cure rates for February and March 2025 among the five highest months we have observed in at least 10 years.

Speaker Change: Excluding those hurricane impacted adl's, new default still declined by 7% in the first quarter compared to prior quarter.

Speaker Change: It is important to note that our new defaults continue to contain significant embedded expertise, which has been a key driver of recent favorable trends, including higher cure rates and reduce severity for policies that result in claim submission in.

Speaker Change: In addition, the total number of kilos in the first quarter grew 13% compared to the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: <unk> continued to be really strong with cure rates for February and March 2025, among the five highest months, we have observed in at least 10 years.

Sumita Pandit: Our loss ratio remained low with a net expense of $15 million in our mortgage insurance provision for losses in the first quarter compared to a de-minimis amount in the fourth quarter.

Speaker Change: Our loss ratio remained low with a net expense of $15 million in our mortgage insurance provision for losses in the first quarter compared to a de minimus amount in the fourth quarter.

Sumita Pandit: Let's turn to slide 18. As mentioned last quarter, we reduced our initial default to claim rate to seven and a half percent and maintained that rate in the first quarter, which resulted in $54 million of loss provision for new default. Positive reserve development on prior period defaults of $39 million partially offset this provision for new defaults. As shown on slide 17, our cure trends have been very consistent and positive in recent periods, with approximately 90% of defaults curing within four quarters and 98% curing within 12 quarters, meaningfully exceeding our initial default to claim expectation, which anticipated approximately a 92% cure rate.

Speaker Change: Let's turn to slide 18, as mentioned last quarter, we reduced that initial default to claim rate to seven 5% and maintained that rate in the first quarter, which resulted in $54 million of loss provision for new defaults.

Speaker Change: Positive reserve development on prior period defaults of $39 million, partially offset this provision for new defaults.

Speaker Change: As shown on slide 17, our cure trends have been very consistent and positive in recent periods with approximately 90% of defaults occurring within four quarters, and 98% curing within 12 quarters meaningfully exceeding our initial default to claim expectation which anticipated.

Speaker Change: Proximately, a 92% kill rate.

Sumita Pandit: Cure rates in the first quarter exhibited typical seasonal trends and compared favorably to similar periods for prior years.

Speaker Change: Joe leads in the first quarter exhibited typical seasonal trends and compared favorably to similar beat its above prior years.

Sumita Pandit: Moving to our other business slide. Total revenue in our All Other category were $36 million in the first quarter, an increase compared to $34 million in the fourth quarter. The adjusted pre-tax operating loss for All Other was approximately $3.5 million in the first quarter.

Speaker Change: Moving to our other business lines total revenue in our all other category were $36 million in the first quarter, an increase compared to $34 million in the fourth quarter. The adjusted pre tax operating loss, but all are Doug was approximately <unk> 5 million in the third.

Sumita Pandit: Now turning to our other expanse. For the first quarter, our other operating expenses totaled $77 million, a 12% decrease from prior quarter. Operating expenses were in line with our expectations as communicated last quarter.

Speaker Change: Quarter.

Speaker Change: Now turning to add other expenses for.

Speaker Change: For the first quarter, our other operating expenses totaled $77 million, a 12% decrease from prior quarter.

Speaker Change: Operating expenses were in line with our expectations as communicated last quarter. As a reminder, for 2025, we expect operating expenses of $320 million to average $18 million per quarter.

Sumita Pandit: As a reminder, for 2025, we expect operating expenses of $320 million or to average $80 million per quarter. While we continue to actively manage our operating expenses and seek opportunities for additional efficiencies, it is important to note that expenses can fluctuate from quarter to quarter due to changes in items such as variable incentive compensation and investments in strategic growth initiatives.

Speaker Change: We continue to actively manage our operating expenses and seek opportunities for additional efficiencies. It is important to note that expenses can fluctuate from quarter to quarter due to changes in items, such as variable incentive compensation and investments in strategic growth initiatives.

Sumita Pandit: Moving to our capital available liquidity and related strategic action. Radian Guarantee's financial position remains strong. We paid a $200 million distribution to Radian Group in the first quarter while maintaining a stable B. Myers cushion of $2.1 billion. As highlighted on slide 21, Radian sought and received approval from the Pennsylvania Insurance Department to treat the $200 million distribution paid in the first quarter as a return of capital rather than an ordinary dividend. As a result, Radian Guarantee's common stock and paid-in surplus balance reduced from $500 million to $300 million during the quarter while its positive unassigned surplus grew to $408 million, strengthening Radian Guarantee's ability to pay additional ordinary dividends in the future.

Speaker Change: Moving to our catheter available liquidity and related strategic actions.

Speaker Change: Radian Guaranty's financial position remains strong.

Speaker Change: <unk> $200 million distribution to Radian group in the first quarter, while maintaining a stable P Myers cushion up to $1 billion.

Speaker Change: As highlighted on slide 21, Canadian sought and received approval from the Pennsylvania insurance Department to treat the $200 million distributions paid in the first quarter as a return of capital rather than an ordinary dividend as a result, radian guaranty's common stock and data and surplus balance reduce.

Speaker Change: From 500 million to $300 million during the quarter, while it's positive unassigned surplus grew to 408 million strengthening radian guaranty's ability to pay additional ordinary dividends in the future.

Sumita Pandit: We expect that Radian Guarantee will pay up to $795 million of total distributions to Radian Group in 2025, in line with its 2024 statutory net income. This $795 million of total capital return includes both this first quarter distribution and expected future ordinary dividends over the remainder of the year.

Speaker Change: We expect that radian guaranty will be up to $795 million of total distributions to Radian group in 2025 in line with 2024 statutory net income.

Speaker Change: This $795 million of total capital return includes both this first quarter distribution.

Speaker Change: And expected future ordinary dividends over the remainder of the year.

Sumita Pandit: Moving to our holding company, Radian Group. Within the quarter, we repurchased 6.5 million shares of our common stock at a total cost of $207 million for an average price paid of $32.07. In addition, we returned $37 million in shareholder dividends for a total of $244 million of capital returned in the quarter. As of the end of the first quarter, we had $336 million remaining on our current share repurchase authorization. As demonstrated by repurchase activity in the quarter, our expectation for a similar level of repurchase volume in the second quarter and our track record in recent years, we continue to believe that share repurchase provides an attractive option to deploy our excess capital.

Speaker Change: Moving to our holding company Radian group within the quarter, we repurchased six and a half million shares of our common stock at a total cost of $207 million for an average price paid of $32 seven.

Speaker Change: In addition, we returned $97 million in shareholder dividends for a total of $244 million of capital returned in the quarter.

Speaker Change: As of the end of the first quarter, we had $336 million remaining on our current share repurchase authorization.

Speaker Change: As demonstrated by our repurchase activity in the quarter, our expectation for a similar level of repurchase volume in the second quarter and our track record in recent years. We continue to believe that share repurchase provides an attractive option to deploy our excess capital.

Sumita Pandit: Our available holding company liquidity was $834 million at the end of the first quarter. The decline in liquidity this quarter of approximately $50 million was due to higher share repurchases, which we believe was an attractive use of a portion of our excess liquidity.

Speaker Change: Our available holding company liquidity was $834 million at the end of the first quarter.

Speaker Change: The decline in liquidity this quarter of approximately $50 million was due to higher share repurchases, which we believe was an attractive use of a portion of our excess liquidity.

Sumita Pandit: We also have a credit facility with borrowing capacity of $275 million, providing us with additional financial flexibility for short-term cash management, including activity in support of our capital return opportunities.

Speaker Change: We also have a credit facility with borrowing capacity of $275 million, providing us with additional financial flexibility for short term cash management, including activity in support of our capital return opportunities.

Sumita Pandit: In April 2025, consistent with our use of risk distribution strategies to effectively manage capital and proactively mitigate risk, Radian Guarantee agreed to a multi-year quota share reinsurance arrangement with a panel of third-party reinsurance providers. We are very pleased with these transactions, which further mitigate the tail risk of our portfolio and provide efficient PMIRS capital relief at a low cost of capital. The market demand for mortgage insurance risk is strong, as evidenced by the attractive terms we secured and the expansive group of over 20 highly rated reinsurers that are party to the arrangement, nine of which are new to Radian.

Speaker Change: In April 2025, consistent with our use of this distribution strategy is to effectively manage capital and proactively mitigate risk radian guaranty agreed to a multiyear quota share reinsurance arrangement with a panel of third party reinsurance providers.

Speaker Change: We are very pleased with these transactions, which further mitigate the tail risk of our portfolio and provide efficient P. Myers capital relief at a low cost of capital.

Speaker Change: The market demand for mortgage insurance risk is strong as evidenced by the attractive terms with secured and the expensive group of over 20 highly rated reinsurers that are party to the arrangement nine of which are new to radian.

Sumita Pandit: Further, securing quota share coverage on our new production through June 30, 2028, provides us with both a high certainty of coverage as well as significant flexibility. We believe we are very well positioned to continue effectively managing our PMRS position at Radian Guarantee from a position of strength.

Speaker Change: Further securing quota share coverage on our new production through June 30th 2028 provides us with both a high certainty of coverage as well as significant flexibility.

Speaker Change: We believe we are very well positioned to continue effectively managing our <unk> position at radian guarantee from a position of strength.

Richard Thornberry: I will now turn the call back over to Rick. Thank you, Sumita. Our results in the quarter continue to reflect the balance and resiliency of our company, as well as the strength and flexibility of our capital and liquidity position. We expect the earnings and cash flows generated from our large enforced mortgage insurance and investment portfolios to allow us to continue operating from a position of strength and delivering value to our customers, policyholders, and stockholders. We believe our active management of capital through our share repurchases and dividends, as well as our overall leverage, reflects the strength and health of our financial position.

Rick Thornberry: I will now turn the call back over to Rick.

Speaker Change: Thank you Samantha our results in the quarter continued to reflect the balance and resiliency of our company as well as the strength and flexibility of our capital and liquidity positions.

Speaker Change: We expect the earnings and cash flows generated from our large enforce mortgage insurance and investment portfolios.

Speaker Change: To allow us to continue operating from a position of strength and delivering value to our customers policyholders and stockholders.

Speaker Change: We believe our active management of capital through our share repurchases and dividends as well as our overall leverage reflects the strength and health of our financial position.

Richard Thornberry: We continue our focus on managing operational efficiency and remain on track to achieve our targeted reduction in run rate operating expenses this year.

Speaker Change: We continue our focus on managing the operational efficiency and remain on track to achieve our targeted reduction in our run rate operating expenses this year.

Richard Thornberry: And finally, I want to recognize and thank our dedicated and experienced team at Radian for the outstanding work they do every day.

Speaker Change: And finally, I want to recognize and thank our dedicated and experienced team of Arabian for the outstanding work. They do every day.

Operator: And now, operator, we would be happy to take questions. Thank you. As a reminder, if you have a question, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster.

Speaker Change: And now operator, we would be happy to take questions. Thank you as a reminder, if you have a question. Please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced to withdraw. Your question. Please press star one again, please standby, while we compile the Q&A roster.

Terry MA: And our first question comes from Terry Ma of Barclays. Your line is open. Hi, thank you. Good morning.

Speaker Change: And our first question comes from Terry MA of Barclays. Your line is open.

Terry MA: Hi, Thank you good morning.

Richard Thornberry: Maybe just to start off with credit last quarter you indicated nearing a peak for some of the larger vintages. and expect the default rate to kind of shake out in the sub 3% range, unless the macro. just given all the uncertainty we have. I'm just curious, what are your kind of updated thoughts?

Speaker Change: Just to start off with credit.

Speaker Change: Last quarter you indicated you are.

Speaker Change: We're nearing a peak for some of the larger vintages seasoning and expected default rate to kind of shake out in the sub 3% range.

Speaker Change: Unless the macro changes so just given all the uncertainty we have.

Speaker Change: I'm just curious what are your kind of updated thoughts.

Richard Thornberry: on kind of credit loss expectations and anything you can kind of do on the pricing or underwriting side should the max Yeah, thanks for the question, Terry. So I think as we've given you prior guidance, I would say where we are today, we continue to see really strong performance in terms of our cure trends. If you look at our default rate this quarter, it was actually a little lower than the fourth quarter of last year. We went down from 2.44 to about 2.33% as our default rate. In fact, for this quarter, our cures actually were higher than our new defaults.

Speaker Change: Kind of credit loss expectations and anything you can kind of do on the pricing or underwriting side said the macro weekend.

Terry MA: Yes, thanks for the question Terry.

Speaker Change: So I think as Steve given your prior guidance I would say, where we are today, we continue to see really strong performance in terms of <unk> trends. If you look at our default rate. This quarter. It was actually a little lower than the fourth quarter of last year, we went down from $2 44 to about 233% as R&D portrayed in.

Speaker Change: Fact for this quarter, our cure is actually higher than our new default and so we continue to see really strong I would say, both the deepwater and cure trend performance and in line with our expectations.

Richard Thornberry: And so we continue to see really strong, I would say, both default and cure trend performance and in line with our expectations. I think as far as our expectation for through the cycle default rates is concerned, I think we still remain in that sub 3% range. We don't expect to be really too different from that level. And in terms of modeling our expectations, we always take a through the cycle view. We want to be conservative. We want to make sure we track different macroeconomic outcomes, given the uncertainty externally. And so we remain conservative, but our data continues to be extremely strong and our cure trends continue to be much better than what we initially reserved for.

Speaker Change: As far as our expectation for through the cycle default rates is concerned I think we still remain in that sub 2% range, we don't expect to be really too different from that level.

Speaker Change: And in terms of modeling our expectations, we always take it through the cycle view will be want to be conservative we want to make sure the track different macroeconomic outcomes given the uncertainty externally and so we remain conservative but our data continues to be extremely strong and our care trends continue to be much better.

Speaker Change: Than what we initially reserved for.

Richard Thornberry: God, let's hope. And then the claims are eight at seven and a half percent. You guys took that down from eight. I think it was like two quarters ago. Just kind of remind me what the drivers there are. And then like looking forward. How should we kind of think about that claims rate through a variety of kind of economic scenarios? Is there some sort of kind of implied unemployment rate? So I think when we look at our default to claim rate assumption, we really want to do that through the cycle. We obviously look at current unemployment trends.

Got it that's helpful.

Speaker Change: And then the claims rate at seven 5% you guys took that from a I.

Speaker Change: It was like two quarters ago, just kind of remind me what's the drivers there are and then like looking forward.

Speaker Change: How should we kind of think about that claims rate through a variety of kind of economic scenarios is there some sort of kind of implied unemployment rate that contemplates. Thank.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Speaker Change: So I think when we look at the default to claim rate.

Speaker Change: I'm, saying, we really want to do that through the cycle. We obviously look at current unemployment trends, we look at other macroeconomic indicators, but the reserving assumption is really through the cycle and when we chose to bring that down from 8% to 7% a half percent in the fourth quarter of last year, we took into account <unk> trends.

Richard Thornberry: We look at other macroeconomic indicators. But the reserving assumption is really through the cycle. And when we chose to bring that down from eight percent to seven and a half percent in the fourth quarter of last year, we took into account cure trends and we took into account what we were seeing, clear positive trends, primarily driven from home price appreciation. And we felt comfortable reserving less for new defaults. We've continued to keep that assumption for this quarter. Also, keep in mind, last quarter, we did not make a different assumption for hurricane related defaults. We blended it together and we reduced our overall roll rate from eight to seven and a half percent.

Speaker Change: We took into account what we were seeing clear positive trends, primarily driven from home price appreciation and we felt comfortable having less for new defaults. We've continued to keep that assumption for this quarter also keep in mind last quarter, we did not make a different assumption for hurricane related defaults, we blended it together.

Speaker Change: And we reduced our overall roll rate from 8% to 7% and 5%.

Richard Thornberry: We feel comfortable with that assumption and we didn't make a change this quarter. Having said that, we would change that if we see the macroeconomic scenario change drastically from where we are today.

Speaker Change: We feel comfortable with that assumption and we didn't make a change this quarter, having said that we would change that if we see the macroeconomic scenario changed drastically from where we are today.

Terry MA: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Bo George: And our next question comes from Bo George of KBW. Your line is open. Everyone, good morning.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Bose, George with <unk>. Your line is open.

Sumita Pandit: Actually, in terms of buybacks, I think, Sumita, could you repeat what you said about buybacks in the second quarter? And then just in general, is there a good way to think about, you know, payout ratios or just broadly just philosophy on capital? Yeah, sure, I'll start and Rick, jump in with other parts as we go through this. So I would say what I mentioned in my prepared remarks both was that we really accelerated our share buyback this quarter, you saw us almost go out and buy back four times the shares that we were buying in prior quarters.

Speaker Change: Everyone. Good morning.

Speaker Change: In terms of buybacks I think submit the could you repeat what you said about buybacks.

Speaker Change: Second quarter and then just in general is there a good way to think about.

Speaker Change: Payout ratio is broadly just philosophy on capital discipline.

Speaker Change: Yes, sure I'll start then Rick jump in with other parts as we go through there. So I would say what I mentioned in my prepared remarks, both was that we really accelerated our share buyback. This quarter you saw us on let's go out and buyback four times. The shares that you were buying in prior quarters, we did that because one we saw great opportunity in terms of.

Sumita Pandit: We did that because one, we saw great opportunity in terms of where our stock was trading this quarter. Second, we also continue to use our excess liquidity in our holding company. If you remember last year, we used some of our holding company liquidity to actually pay down our debt. Right now, we have no debt maturities over the next two years. So we used our holding company liquidity to really take advantage of where our stock was trading. And we increased our share buyback amount this quarter. And I think we will continue to buy back shares at a similar pace, at least for second quarter, given where we are trading today.

Speaker Change: That our stock was trading this quarter.

Speaker Change: We also continue to use our excess liquidity in our holding company. If you remember last year.

Speaker Change: Some of our holding company liquidity to actually pay down our debt right now we have no debt maturities over the next two years. So we used our holding company liquidity to really take advantage of that our stock was trading and we increased our share buyback amount this quarter and I think we will continue to buyback shares at <unk>.

Speaker Change: Miller pace at least for our second quarter, given where we're trading today.

Richard Thornberry: So yeah, I mean, we plan to keep using our liquidity from our holding company to make sure that we are buying back shares and capturing value. Rick, would you add anything else? Yeah, I would also say, you know, you've seen us over the last five years buy back, you know, $1.4 billion worth of shares, you know, 30% of our shares outstanding, go back seven years, we bought back 1.9 billion or 39% of our shares. So we've been very active in the market. I think, you know, we always have kind of a baseline view of share buybacks kind of on a quarter to quarter basis.

Speaker Change: So yes, I mean, we plan to keep using our liquidity from a holding company to make sure that we're buying back shares and capturing value Rick would you add anything else.

Speaker Change: I'd also say.

Speaker Change: <unk> seen this over the last five years buyback the $1 $4 billion worth of shares 30% of our shares outstanding you go back several years, we bought back $1 9 billion or 39% of our sure. So we've been very active in the market I think.

Speaker Change: We always have kind of a baseline view of share buybacks kind of on a quarter to quarter basis.

Richard Thornberry: But we're also always well armed with an authorization in place to be able to lean in, you know, not just any time, but at the right time to really kind of find value for shareholders and return capital. So I think this last quarter and the second quarter, as Samantha said, we're in the second quarter, we expect to buy a similar amount back, we're going to buy back in the first half of this year. over approximately double what we bought back all of last year. And I think the opportunity presented itself and we we executed on it.

Speaker Change: But we're also always well armed with an authorization in place to be able to leave.

Speaker Change: Not just any time, but at the right time to really kind of find value for shareholders. A return capital. So I think this last quarter in the second quarter as Samantha said, we're in the second quarter, we expect to Biosimilar amount back we're going to buyback in the first half of this year.

Speaker Change: Approximately double what we bought back all of last year.

Speaker Change: And I think the opportunity presented itself and we executed on it so im proud of the team I think when you look at our the value of our stock we think it trades below intrinsic value you think about the about it.

Sumita Pandit: So I'm proud of the team. I think when you look at our the value of our stock, we think it trades below intrinsic value. You think about the embedded, the embedded value of our future earnings on the portfolio, which we went through on our investor day a couple years ago, you look at AOCI, which discounts book value, you look at the overall economics of our business and the clarity we have around kind of future cash flow up to the holdco from RGI, you know, I think we're in a really positive position. So you saw us kind of act in reaction and response to a market opportunity.

Speaker Change: The above value of our future earnings on the portfolio, which we went through on our Investor Day. A couple years ago, you look at AOS, HCI, which discounts of book value you look at the overall economics of our business and the clarity we have around kind of a future cash flow up to the holdco from our Gi.

Speaker Change: I think we're in a really positive position. So you saw us kind of act and reaction in response to a market opportunity.

Richard Thornberry: And, you know, through the second quarter, if we buy back over 400 million, I think that'll be a pretty significant positive impact for our Radian overall.

Speaker Change: Through the second quarter, if we buy back over $400 million I think that will be a pretty significant positive impact for for radian. Overall, yes, I think if I had a question on payout ratios that we haven't really given guidance on a payout ratio in the past all I would say is that if you look at what we have.

Sumita Pandit: Yeah, I think you also had a question on payout ratio. So we haven't really given guidance on a payout ratio in the past. All I would say is that if you look at what we expect to be the dividends from RGI to group, we mentioned that we are expected to pay up to $795 million. That's our statutory net income constraint, because that that was our net income in 2024. So that's the max ordinary dividend or return of capital that we can do from RGI to group. So you can see how much what's the pace at which we are returning that capital back to our shareholders.

Speaker Change: Expected to be the dividend some our Gi to group.

Speaker Change: We mentioned that we are expected to be up to $795 million. That's a statutory net income constrained because that can cause that net income in 2024, So thats the Max ordinary dividend or return of capital that we can do from our Gi group.

Speaker Change: So you can see how much what's the pace at which we are returning that capital back to our shareholders.

Sumita Pandit: Okay, great. See the pace of the buybacks.

Speaker Change: Okay great.

Richard Thornberry: And then just in terms of the delinquencies, can you just talk about the level of embedded equity in the new delinquencies? And is that kind of similar to what you've seen, say, over the last year? Yeah, I think, you know, it continues to be really strong. I think if you look at our new defaults, about 75% of our new defaults continues to have more than 20% equity. So it's still a very, very consistent trend. And we continue to see a very strong cure performance as a result.

Speaker Change: See the pace of the buybacks.

Speaker Change: And then just in terms of the delinquencies can you just talk about the level of embedded equity in the new delinquencies and is that kind of similar to what you've seen say over the last year.

Speaker Change: Yes, I think it continues to be really strong I think if you look at our new default about 75% of our new defaults continues to have more than 20% equity. So it's still a very very consistent trend.

Speaker Change: And we continue to see a very strong performance as a result.

Richard Thornberry: Okay, great. Thank you.

Speaker Change: Okay, great. Thanks.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Doug Harter: Our next question comes from Doug Harter of UPS. Your line is open. Thanks, just. How are you thinking about what is the right level of holdco liquidity, you know, kind of over over time, you know, especially, you know, kind of given the work you've already done on on bringing down debt and no near term debt maturity.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Doug Harter of UBS. Your line is open.

Speaker Change: Thanks.

Speaker Change: Yeah.

Speaker Change: How are you thinking about what is the right level of Holdco.

Speaker Change: Liquidity.

Speaker Change: Kind of over over time, especially kind of given the work you've already done on.

Speaker Change: Now on bringing down debt and no near term debt maturities.

Sumita Pandit: Yeah, I mean, I think, thanks for the question. We are in a great position. So you can see that we are using the flexibility we have in our holding company and continuing to really think about the use of that liquidity. So we started the quarter with about $885 million of liquidity in our holding company. As mentioned, you know, we returned $244 million back to shareholders. We got another $200 million from RGI as a return of capital in this quarter instead of dividend. And so we are currently sitting at about $834 million of liquidity in our holding company as well as a credit facility.

Speaker Change: Yes, I mean, I think thanks for the question.

Speaker Change: Great position. So you can see there to be are using the flexibility we have in our holding company and continuing to really think about the use of that liquidity. So we started the quarter with about $885 million of liquidity and our holding company as mentioned.

Speaker Change: 244 back to shareholders.

Speaker Change: Got another $200 million from our Gi as a return of capital in this quarter and start of our dividend and so we are currently sitting at about $834 million of liquidity in our holding company as well as our credit facility.

Sumita Pandit: We've not given a specific guidance as to what is that threshold number that we need to keep in our holding company. We obviously look at what our fixed charges are, how much do we really need to keep aside from an interest coverage perspective, as well as the dividends that we pay to our shareholders. We do look at all of that and think of our fixed charge from our holding company. But what I will say is that right now, the liquidity we have in our holding company is much, much higher than where we need to be to really run our business.

Speaker Change: We've not given specific guidance as to what is that threshold number that we need to keep in our holding company. We obviously look at what our fixed charges or how much do we really need to keep aside from an interest coverage perspective as well as the dividends that we pay to our shareholders. We do look at all of that and think of our.

Speaker Change: Fixed charge from our holding company, but what I will say is that right now the liquidity we have in our holding company is much much higher than where we need to be to really run our business and we will continue to do that and make sure that we are returning that capital back to shareholders as and when we see value in our share price.

Sumita Pandit: And we will continue to do the right thing and make sure that we're returning that capital back to shareholders as and when we see value in our share price.

Richard Thornberry: Yeah, and I would just add to that, kind of echoing your point, the transparency we have of cash flow from RGI up to Radian Group, kind of for the foreseeable future, as we've talked about, is really puts us in a position of strength to be very kind of... agile and flexible when it comes to capital management. Great. Appreciate the answer. Thank you.

Speaker Change: I would just add to that kind of echoing your point the transparency, we have a cash flow from our Gi up to Radian group.

Speaker Change: For the foreseeable future as we've talked about is really puts us in a position of strength to be very kind of.

Speaker Change: Hi, Joe and flexible when it comes to capital management.

Speaker Change: Great I appreciate the answer thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Mihir Bhatia: And our next question comes from Mihir Bhatia of Bank of America. Your line is open.

Speaker Change: And our next question comes from Mihir Bhatia of Bank of America. Your line is open.

Mihir Bhatia: Hi, Good morning, and thank you for taking my question wanted to go back to the buyback discussion.

Sumita Pandit: Why don't you go back to the bio... I believe you'll buy it back. Value Based NB5 Plan has that. a little bit about. How the buyback work, is it just a matter of I'm just trying to understand the how you're being opportunistic and, you know, the flex. Yeah, I mean, it is still a 10B5 plan. I mean, I think we do have to make sure that we keep that grid active. So we have a grid and we execute based on that grid. We have continued to make changes to that grid as we have seen opportunity.

Mihir Bhatia: Believe you buyback used to be a value based MB five plan has that changed and just can you talk a little bit about the mechanics of how the buyback work is it just a matter of you putting more money towards it and it's still executing on that value based plan or like.

Speaker Change: I'm just try to understand.

Mihir Bhatia: Like how you're being opportunistic.

Speaker Change: Flex in it in terms of moving up or down quickly.

Speaker Change: Yes, I mean, it is still at MB five plan I mean, I think we do have to make sure that we keep that create active so we have a great and we execute based on that grid.

Speaker Change: We have continued to make changes to that to that great as we've seen opportunity.

Richard Thornberry: And I think that's what you're seeing as a result of, you know, how we are now buying back much more shares. So yes, while it is executed to a 10B5 plan, we've increased the pace and the amount of capital that we are putting aside to execute the share repurchase program. I'll also say that, you know, as we, you know, there was a, there was a moment maybe two years back when we were being a little more conservative and it was much more of a value based plan. At this point, I would say we just see tremendous opportunity in our share price.

Speaker Change: And I think Thats, what youre seeing as a result of how we are now buying back much more shares. So yes, while it is executed to identify plan, we've increased the pace and the amount of capital that we're putting aside to execute the share repurchase program.

Speaker Change: Also say that you know as we yes.

Speaker Change: There was a moment maybe two years back when we were being a little more conservative than it was much more of a value based plan at this point I would say, we just see tremendous opportunity in our share price I think they talked about where we see value from its semi OCI from the embedded value of our MA business that is not reflected in our book value today and I.

Richard Thornberry: I think Rick talked about where we see value from. It's from AOCI, it's the embedded value of our MI business that's not reflected in our book value today. And I think we gave some indications of that two years back now in our investor days. So I would say, yes, it is value based, but we are also being a little bit more optimistic about where we are headed as a business. And we will continue to buy back those shares based on a 10B5 grid.

Speaker Change: We gave some indications of that two years back now in our Investor day. So I would say, yes. It is value based but we're also being a little bit more optimistic about where we are headed as a business and we will continue to buyback those shares based on our 75 grid.

Richard Thornberry: And then in terms of Curates have been very Step all Unknown Attendee1- Are there other factors driving it? Is there something other than... You know, Mihir, thank you for that question. I'll take that and Sumita can add to it as well. But I think, I think, look, embedded equity in the home is certainly a good incentive for a homebuyer to make sure they find a way to protect that equity. But I would say combined with that, there's a tremendous amount of muscle memory that we all came through, kind of from the great financial crisis, but then COVID where, you know, we as an industry and as a government and a regulator, and we learned that keeping the borrower in their home to allow them to get their feet back on the ground and kind of move forward, has proven to be a really positive factor.

Speaker Change: Got it that makes sense.

Speaker Change: And then in terms of.

Speaker Change: The claim rate cure rate.

Speaker Change: Right.

Speaker Change: <unk>, if you will cure rates have been very strong.

Do you have the slide then everything you can see it was like 90, 798% you mentioned jewelry et cetera.

Speaker Change: Two highest months over the last 10 years recently.

Speaker Change: Is that all just HPA driven like are there other factors driving it has something is there something other than HBA that is.

Driving such strong cure rates and can you talk about that a little bit.

Speaker Change: Yes, let me here. Thank you for that question I'll take the semester can add to it as well, but I think I think look embedded equity in the home is certainly a good incentive for a homebuyer to make sure. They find a way to protect that equity, but I would say combined with there is a tremendous amount of muscle memory that we all came through kind of premier.

Speaker Change: The great financial crisis with the Covid.

Speaker Change: Covid, where we as an industry.

Speaker Change: Government, a regulator and we learned that keeping the borrower in their home to allow them to get their feedback on the ground in cabinet move forward has proven to be a really positive factor. So I would I would put that in.

Richard Thornberry: So I would, I would put that, and I would just emphasize that some of the memories, some of the learnings from COVID have translated into even a better structure that avoids kind of, you know, kind of, I guess, abuses of that kind of forbearance. So it's the structure for helping people, I think, has been improved. You also look at kind of the employment cycle that, you know, continues today, even with all the headline news around tariffs and global trade and, you know, so forth. Employment continues to be a factor in enabling people to get reemployed if they become unemployed.

I would just emphasize that some of the some of the learnings from Covid have translated into even a better structure that avoids kind of.

Speaker Change: I guess abuses of the kind of forbearance. So it's the structure for helping people I think has been improve you also look at kind of the employment cycle that continues today, even with all the headline news around <unk>.

Speaker Change: There are some global trade and so forth deployment continues.

Speaker Change: To be a factor in.

Speaker Change: Enabling people to get re employed if they become unemployed and so those are factors. We watch a scimitar went through a few minutes ago talking about how we set reserve policy, we really look at kind of a number of different factors kind of going through.

Richard Thornberry: And so those are factors we watch, as Sumita went through a few minutes ago, talking about how we set reserve policy, we really look at kind of a number of different factors kind of going through. I think there's a number of factors today that are enabling people to cure better than we've expected to date, right? But we're going to continue to monitor it and continue to watch it and, you know, continue to express our opinion through our reserves.

Speaker Change: I think theres a number of factors.

Speaker Change: <unk> is enabling people to pure butter.

Speaker Change: And then we expect it to date, but.

Speaker Change: But we're going to continue to monitor it and continue to watch it.

Speaker Change: Continue to express our opinion through our reserves.

Speaker Change: Alright, Thank you for taking my questions.

Unknown Attendee: Thank you.

Speaker Change: Thank you.

Operator: I'm showing no further questions at this time.

Speaker Change: Thank you I'm showing no further questions at this time I would like to turn it back to Rick Thornberry for closing remarks.

Richard Thornberry: I'd now like to turn it back to Rick Thornberry for closing remarks. I appreciate that. Thank you all for joining the call today. We always appreciate your time and interest in Radian and our ability to kind of update you on the current state of our business, which we're very proud of. We look forward to the opportunity to meet and talk to many of you over the coming weeks and answer your questions. It's always one of the highlights of the job I have here is the opportunity to meet with you all.

Rick Thornberry: I appreciate that thank you all for joining the call today, we always appreciate your time and interest in <unk>.

Speaker Change: <unk>.

Speaker Change: Our ability to kind of update you on the current state of our business, which we're very proud of.

Speaker Change: We look forward to the opportunity to meet and talk to many of you over the coming weeks.

Speaker Change: <unk> answered your questions. It's always one of the highlights of the job I have here is the opportunity to meet with you also have a great day and thank you for your time.

Richard Thornberry: So have a great day and thank you for your time.

Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.

Speaker Change: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Okay.

Speaker Change: [music].

Operator: Thank you for watching!

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Okay.

Speaker Change: Uh huh.