Q1 2025 Primis Financial Corp Earnings Call
Good morning, My name is Aaron and I will be your conference operator for today at this time I would like to welcome everyone to the premise financial Corporation first quarter earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise and after the Speakers' remarks, we will have a question and answer session. If you would like to ask.
Good question during that time simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If at any point you would like to withdraw your question just press star followed by the number one again.
Speaker Change: With that I'm pleased to turn the call over to Matt Switzer, Chief Financial Officer, Matt You May now begin.
Speaker Change: Thank you good morning, and thank you for joining us before we begin. Please note that many of our comments. During this call will be forward looking statements, which involve risk and uncertainty. There are many factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from the anticipated results or other expectations expressed in the forward looking statements further discussion of the Companys.
Speaker Change: Risk factors and other important information regarding our forward looking statements are part of our recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our recently filed earnings release, which has been posted which is also posted to the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Mr Relations section of our corporate site premise bank Dot com.
Speaker Change: We undertake no obligation to update or revise forward looking statements to reflect changes assumptions the occurrence of unanticipated events or changes to future operating results over time.
Speaker Change: In addition, some financial measures that we may discuss this morning are non-GAAP financial measures, our non-GAAP measure related to the most comparable GAAP measure will be discussed when the non-GAAP measure accused of not readily apparent.
Speaker Change: I'll now turn the call over to our President and Chief Executive Officer, Dennis Zimmer.
Dennis Zimmer: Thank you, Matt and thank you to all of you that have joined our conference call. This morning.
Dennis Zimmer: For the quarter. We saw continued we saw our performance continued.
Dennis Zimmer: Easy.
Dennis Zimmer: For the quarter, we saw our performance continuing to track to the levels that we are expecting we have three in place strategy that will drive much higher or a way that I would like to discuss.
Dennis Zimmer: But before I do that I want to highlight our core community Bank, which I believe is going to be a driver of our growth and results. This year.
Dennis Zimmer: We continued building pipelines of new customers in the current quarter pushing to date pipeline to about three times, what it was a year ago.
Dennis Zimmer: For the first quarter loans were down attached because of some delayed closing but in April as of this morning, Our core bank is up $25 million in loans over the quarter end with.
Dennis Zimmer: With plenty of pipeline to keep the numbers moving for the rest of the second quarter, our loan repricing in the first quarter at the core bank. We are in the mid 7% range and our new deposit account opening came in under 2%.
Dennis Zimmer: All of that and our core bank. Indeed was essentially the same operating expense that they had a year ago, managing tight and letting our improvements have an outsized impact on bottom line.
Dennis Zimmer: The momentum at the core bank is encouraging and important when you consider the three inflight strategies, we have to materially change our results.
Dennis Zimmer: I'll give you a quick recap of the and some first quarter results realizing them.
Dennis Zimmer: First is growth in earning assets back to the level that we experienced before we started the lifestream your book.
Dennis Zimmer: In the second quarter of 2024, we had about 375 billion of earning asset about $350 million higher than where we finished the first quarter of 'twenty.
Dennis Zimmer: Growing earning assets hasn't been a problem for our bank and as I look through the rest of this year, we expect about $100 million of growth from the core values.
Dennis Zimmer: About $150 million more in warehouse and about 125 million more prepayments.
Dennis Zimmer: None of these strategies need more operating expense.
Dennis Zimmer: To drive this growth and sell over the next few quarters as we reach our target aspect the spread on describes the strength to pretax and lift the ora way by 20% to 25 basis points over our first quarter numbers.
Dennis Zimmer: Second is our mortgage division, we need mortgage to add about 20 basis points to our return on assets compared to last year's contribution of about five basis points.
Speaker Change: We've been we've been slowly and reliably building our mortgage division since we acquired it in 2000 to 2022, and I know that Greg Sam insurmountable, but we closed $800 million of loans in 2024.
Speaker Change: It had about $1 2 billion of momentum as we exited the year.
Speaker Change: Our pre tax income divided by closed volume in the first quarter of 'twenty was 50% higher than all of 24.
Speaker Change: We already have the higher volumes and higher profitability to carry us very close to that goal.
Speaker Change: To further support that and to highlight the opportunity here, we continue to recruit and brought on some of the best teams in the country.
Speaker Change: We added the top producing team in Nashville, Tennessee that likely will close somewhere between 150 and $175 million per year, and we added a family teen in Wilmington, North Carolina, all of our military veterans and expect that we will close $175 million to $200 million per year of monthly FH.
Speaker Change: The AG business.
Speaker Change: We also added teams in Austin, Texas, and some other market and collectively the first quarter's recurring yielded increased production capacity of about $500 million.
Speaker Change: Lastly.
Speaker Change: We are working and I'm, probably most importantly, we are working to simplify and consolidate our core processing contract into one.
Speaker Change: We've built all the proprietary integrations and customer experiences and we did that last year said that it would be core agnostic and allow for the capex that we need to make our customer.
In our experience, which is unquestionably leading the market will not change nor will our unique and reliable method for banking the entire country with proprietary concepts that we out bad actors in fraudsters.
Speaker Change: What will change is the bottom line impact and we think materially.
Speaker Change: We expect to have just announced in the second quarter of 25 with a clear path to what we think are a confident will be a 15 to 18 basis point pickup in our ROI.
Speaker Change: Before I leave this I want to make a comment about the importance of the digital platform and why that core consolidation is so important.
Speaker Change: A question from an Investor last night and sort of Jogged My sort of made me think about that.
Speaker Change: Putting this together right now we've done everything that is at the core bank with our digital platform.
Meaning I'm not stressing my very profitable core community bank with having to stretch to fund national ideas.
Speaker Change: With digital platform funds all of paying a fee of excess lending, which I believe will be around $500 million by the end of the year with that funding and at our digital cost of funds payments will earn the bank around one 5% after tax ROIC.
Speaker Change: This digital platform front mortgage warehouse, which will bring in a lot of low cost onto itself.
Speaker Change: But with this production I suppose it will need about $200 million to $250 million throughout the rest of 'twenty five.
Speaker Change: At the digital cost of funds warehouse will earn the bank over a 2% return on assets.
Speaker Change: Collectively this is an exceptional idea for growth and profitability it augments and supports the community bank.
Speaker Change: And severely tamps down the idea that we have to win every single loan in every single deposit in the marketplace in our core bank overtime that pressure in our community bank leads to poor credit decision and higher cost of deposits.
Speaker Change: The only problem with realizing this dream scenario almost $1 billion.
Speaker Change: Balance sheet.
Speaker Change: Is the cost to run the digital core is pretty high.
Speaker Change: Our Trailblazing idea was supported by something back then of course, getting Dave but over time, the course of modernized and now except outside API integrations and once we've resolved the higher cost of these two cores. Despite bounce strategy is going to be exceptionally profitable for that.
Speaker Change: My last general comment about all of this is about payment fee in our efforts to de consolidate we have made some of the chain. We made what we think are most of the changes near the end of the first quarter to lessen our control over the parent company and believe we may be close to being able to illustrate a real case for deconsolidation.
Speaker Change: Given that the gain is large and the accounting is complex. We are working closely with our consultants Inc. To note for sure. If the changes are adequate consolidated payment fee in the first quarter reduced our operating ROE by 10 basis points simply from reporting our share of the non tax affected operating.
Speaker Change: Loss in our results.
Speaker Change: Consolidated this would have an additional impact improvement in our results.
Speaker Change: Last comment quickly about the consumer foot, it's driven all of the volatility in our results are really covered a lot of the progress and improvements we've made in Canada.
Speaker Change: We moved the portfolio back to our held for investment portfolio as the prospects to sell the portfolio David.
Speaker Change: Virtually all of the volatility and risk in this portfolio centered around the loans with promotional features that have declined from $90 million at June 30 to 24 to only $17 million at the end of the most recent quarter.
Speaker Change: The standard portfolio has good consumer performance and the remaining portfolio of promotional loans are reserved at 75% of the principal balance that we expect to roll to amortization.
Speaker Change: We evaluated this book aggressively in the quarter as we moved it to held for investment in our seasonal model and we booked an additional provision related to that analysis, but going forward. We believe we neutralized the noise and volatility here and are focused on earning back the hits, we took on debt as fast as possible.
Matt Switzer: With that Matt I'll turn it over to you.
Matt Switzer: Thank you Dennis.
Speaker Change: As a reminder, detailed discussion of our financial results can be found in our press release on our website and in our 8-K filed with the SEC.
Speaker Change: As Dennis mentioned it has in prior periods the financial results for a Panacea holdings are included in our consolidated earnings when you exclude the consolidated pretax loss from Panacea Holdings, We reported pretax net income of $4 5 million in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: We also had a little over $1 million of one time items largely related to accounting expense and $1 9 million of additional credit expense as we move to the consumer portfolio back to held for investment.
Speaker Change: Adjusting for these items pre tax net income was seven 5 million or $5 9 million after tax, which equates to a 66 basis points ROA in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: As we've previously discussed we expected ROA in Q1 to be lower due to the balance sheet shrinkage from the sale of the life premium finance portfolio in the fall, which caused earning assets to be 10% lower than the third quarter of last year prior to the sale of <unk>.
Speaker Change: First quarter also exhibited seasonal slowness in mortgage and mortgage warehouse.
Speaker Change: As Dennis discussed our focus has been making sure we execute on the strategies that drive ROE a higher from here, which we're doing net.
Speaker Change: Net interest margin in the first quarter was 315% up from the reported 290 basis points last quarter, we ratcheted down deposit costs exiting last year, particularly on the digital platform benefiting the margin.
Speaker Change: Our bank cost of deposits remained very attractive at 183 basis points.
Speaker Change: We're still booking new loans with yields well over 7% and we have a substantial amount of loans repricing later this year well below that level that will continue to help the margin.
Speaker Change: Noninterest income was $7 8 million in the quarter versus $8 5 million in the fourth quarter when excluding the life premium finance gain.
Increased mortgage revenue was offset by a negative swing in linked quarter of $1 2 million in fee income related to the consumer program that we're running off.
Speaker Change: A substantial driver of that swing was the continued write down of the derivative asset related to loans exiting promotional periods.
Speaker Change: <unk> value was down to $1 6 million at March 31, and will amortize off at a much slower rate over the next five quarters.
Speaker Change: On the expense side, when you exclude mortgage volatility and nonrecurring items. Our core expenses were $20 3 million down $3 2 million from the fourth quarter and more in line with prior periods.
Speaker Change: We've continued to prioritize holding the line on expenses to position ourselves for substantial operating leverage going forward.
Speaker Change: The technology saves Dennis discussed has the potential to reduce that run rate, an additional 9% not including the efficiencies in other areas that come with simplifying our infrastructure.
Speaker Change: Looking forward our focus is on executing the plan, we've laid out growing earning assets back to 375 billion, which at 24 basis points to the ROA.
Speaker Change: Achieving the growth in mortgage volumes and profitability expansion, that's right in front of us would add 15 basis points and reducing our technology spend would add another 15 basis points.
Speaker Change: Collectively that puts us on track to exceed the 1% ROA goal, we've set out for ourselves.
Speaker Change: With that operator, we can now open the line for questions.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much and ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question for today remember to hit Star plus by plus the number one on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: Our first question for today comes from the line of Christopher Merrimack with Janney Montgomery and Scott Your.
Speaker Change: Your line is <unk>.
Christopher Merrimack: Thanks, Good morning.
Speaker Change: Dennis is that wanted to ask about.
Speaker Change: Any wrenches that you see in the second quarter for for not being able to get back to this higher profitability I know that's the progress can be several quarters in the banking just looking specifically at kind of that transition to better numbers Q2 is there anything that you see that could throw you off another quarter.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: We are up.
Speaker Change: Over average balances over the first quarter to where we are right now we are up about $60 million in earning assets. So I think the track towards.
Speaker Change: Having upside.
Speaker Change: On the margin I think we're tracking well there were about to come into the season, where I expect mortgage warehouse to be up a little.
Speaker Change: Just seasonally the core bank closing loans that had been in the pipeline and doing well there.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: I see that we.
Speaker Change: We're taking on average I mean in March we took about $160 million of applications.
Speaker Change: In the mortgage group, we closed about 65% of votes.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: That is that's up 45% over.
Speaker Change: January and February.
Speaker Change: So pretty tremendously this month I mean, we've got to date left to go but it looks like this month, we're going to beat that number. So I think the mortgage number is going to come in strong.
Speaker Change: On track with what we're looking for and on operating expense there really is nothing on the.
Speaker Change: There is there's really nothing.
Speaker Change: Around here, that's pressuring operating expense to move higher.
Speaker Change: We're not going to have the professional fees on.
Speaker Change: On a go forward basis, I mean, a lot of the professional fees. We had in the first quarter were just to.
Speaker Change: Our auditor didn't get the job and start working until.
Speaker Change: October October desk.
Speaker Change: Thats, probably easy three four months they had to do a couple of key to get through the year.
Speaker Change: And just accelerating that thats not going to continue.
Speaker Change: Those costs are coming out.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: I do believe we're going to be able to deconsolidation pain or say, we may have to make a couple more tweaks working with our auditors and with the consultants, but I feel like we've done the vast majority of that so that savings is going to count as well as hopefully the pretty material pickup in book value.
Speaker Change: So, yes, I mean.
Speaker Change: I agree with everything Dennis Adam and Chris our key a mortgage is kind of.
Speaker Change: Baked in the cake at this point, we're going into the busy season.
Recruited a tremendous couple of teams here recently in addition to the recruiting from late last year. So we're very confident in.
Mortgage volumes, even in this rate environment mortgage warehouse was up 80% in the quarter, but a lot of that growth in balances came at the end of the quarter. So you didn't really see it in the average balance.
Speaker Change: Net interest income in the first quarter because of seasonality.
Speaker Change: But they're going to be up substantially on an average basis.
Speaker Change: In the second quarter by a healthy bit in.
Speaker Change: And they're getting good yields with fees on their business.
Speaker Change: And the core bank is showing good momentum again, they were kind of flattish in the first quarter, but thats, just because January and February as always so slow.
Speaker Change: But they had healthy.
Speaker Change: Closings in March and Thats, even with some of that being pushed into April.
Speaker Change: So as Dennis said, we're already up for the month of April relative to March. So all the momentum is there it's our whole story is.
Speaker Change: Is getting to the back half of 'twenty five.
Speaker Change: And <unk>.
Speaker Change: Holding the line on expenses, which we feel confident in and rebuilding earning assets as you know.
Speaker Change: That those earning assets compound, we've got to get stuff booked in on the balance sheet year to replace what we sold late last year, but were.
Speaker Change: Were in progress on that.
Speaker Change: That's super Thank you I'll vote for the background of all of those funds.
Speaker Change: Wanted to ask you about the consumer loans.
Speaker Change: What sort of resolution on those and pay off.
Speaker Change: As I talk about going to happen. This next three or four quarters.
Speaker Change: Do the survivals comparable timeframe.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: The pay off rate in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: The standard book, which is.
Speaker Change: The promo loans definitely will.
Speaker Change: More than half of those are scheduled to pay off before the promo period ends.
Speaker Change: Given what's remaining.
Speaker Change: And then the rest are sort of resolved with the pretty substantial reserves. We have so I think that from a book by the end of the year I think we have the <unk> being down to four $5 million.
Speaker Change: The remaining book is about $100 million.
Speaker Change: The standard consumer paper, if low interest rates low payment.
Speaker Change: The payoff right on that Chris is about 7% per quarter at least it was in the first quarter. So if you look at that you probably could realistically believe that 20% to 30% of that would pay off this year may be a little more.
<unk>.
Speaker Change: So I think Thats amortizing Amer fully amortizing paper so it's just.
Speaker Change: We're not we're not booking any more.
Speaker Change: It's now just running it down over time middle of last year, we had $200 million in this book I think we will end. This year, probably 18 months later I think we will end this year probably somewhere.
Speaker Change: Call it $70 million $65 $75 million.
Speaker Change: Great that helps thank you very much I'll step back.
Speaker Change: Thank you for your questions.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen, once again, if you would like to ask a question today. It is star plus the number one on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: Our next question is from the line of Russell Gunther with Stephens incorporated your line is live.
Russell Gunther: Hey, good morning, guys.
Speaker Change: Hey, Russell.
Speaker Change: I appreciate all of the color on the average, earning asset walk in and where new yields and deposits came on this quarter.
Speaker Change: Could you just give us a sense for how that translates to the margin outlook in <unk> and across the remainder of the year.
Speaker Change: I mean, I think we will.
Speaker Change: C.
Speaker Change: Five to 10 basis points of margin expansion in the second quarter and then for by the end of the year will probably be up call. It.
Speaker Change: 10 to 15 basis points, maybe 10 to 20, depending on what happens with the broader.
Speaker Change: The rate environment.
Speaker Change: The loan repricing, we're having in the core banker easily 100 basis points.
Speaker Change: Higher than where the book is.
Speaker Change: Even now with rates sort of settling down on the five to 10 year and one month. So far we're still picking up yield on loan repricing deposits I've said they were in the.
Speaker Change: Just below 2%, probably 190 ish 195, the core bank cost of deposits is $1 83, a 184.
Speaker Change: 183, so I mean really we're sort of growing the core bank with very.
Speaker Change: No no.
Speaker Change: Move in.
Speaker Change: On deposit costs, some pretty strong there.
Speaker Change: Mortgage warehouse has has a margin that's better than our overall margin.
As that grows I would expect you to see some of that sort of fade into the numbers and lift the margin.
Speaker Change: Salt life like those numbers mask elegant.
Speaker Change: That's helpful guys I appreciate it and then a follow up to the expense conversation had earlier if you could just kind of give us a walk through of where we stand at <unk> and folding in the additional savings.
Speaker Change: Should they materialize, how should we think about an exit.
Speaker Change: Core noninterest expense base in <unk>, assuming panacea deconsolidation.
Russell Gunther: Yes, there is a table in the press release that walks through that vessel Russell that kind of takes out all the different parts, including panacea as impact and mortgage impact to get to that core level.
Russell Gunther: So take a look at that and then let me know if you have follow up questions I would say.
Russell Gunther: That run rate should be pretty consistent for the rest of this year the core consolidation.
Russell Gunther: Savings is really.
Russell Gunther: Probably.
Russell Gunther: Possible, we would see some late this year, depending on the final negotiations on that but its more likely something that will affect 2026, Russell one thing too.
Russell Gunther: Matt backs out the payment.
Russell Gunther: When you look at our core banks Opex is right at $20 million and very consistent with where we were a year ago.
Russell Gunther: Showing how hard we've been managing that around here, Matt backed out panacea opex, because when we calculate the.
Russell Gunther: The impact of payment.
Russell Gunther: Basically get paid for all of those operating expenses than you might see.
Russell Gunther: Sort of meander through noninterest.
Russell Gunther: Noninterest income and noninterest expense wherever we allocate that but really what matters and mortgage as well mortgage opex really just drives mortgage revenues.
Russell Gunther: So really the number that matters is that $20 million I think it was 22.
Russell Gunther: Slide 25, this quarter, that's really the number that matters and I will tell you that we.
Russell Gunther: We're not having any massive moves around here, but we are trimming back and anything that's redundant.
Russell Gunther: We're looking at that.
Russell Gunther: Sure.
Russell Gunther: Consolidating other contracts that may be are not core related and savings there. The whole goal again is to hold opex flat and let all of the growth whether it's mortgage payments.
Russell Gunther: Earning assets whatever we do.
Russell Gunther: Skip opex and get 100% leverage and scale straight to the bottom line.
Russell Gunther: Im very confident that we'll we'll do all that I think if we can finish the year somewhere right around 28.
Russell Gunther: Maybe a touch below that I think the.
Russell Gunther: I think the quarterly.
Russell Gunther: Pick up on the negotiation negotiating this core contract consolidation.
Russell Gunther: Is probably.
Russell Gunther: One $5 million to $2 million a quarter.
Russell Gunther: So like Matt said, 9%, it's a material material move.
Russell Gunther: And that's really on today's numbers. So we could grow the bank back to where we work second quarter hold the line on Opex and then get the savings I think the.
Russell Gunther: The operating results the impact is going to be very very noticeable.
Russell Gunther: Okay. So I guess my follow up and just what I'm trying to get at is so that 'twenty two when youre, saying you expect to finish the year around there.
Russell Gunther: Once we followed in the tech and data processing spend we should expect that to reduce by the one five to two or is that too.
Russell Gunther: Inclusive.
Speaker Change: Yes, I would say 18 and half I'd say 18 to $18 with everything else that we're working on we probably might could get to 18 by 18, five im very confident we would get to.
Speaker Change: Okay. That's super helpful guys, Thats, what I was trying to get to.
Speaker Change: And then just switching gears on.
Speaker Change: Your outlook for charge offs going forward just given all the actions that have already been taking in consumer that was the bulk of charge off this quarter. How would you expect that ratio to trend over the course of the year.
Speaker Change: I think we will continue to see high charge offs the key will be.
Speaker Change: We're not expecting to see higher provisions related to all right. So our core charge offs was I think five or six basis points when you take out the consumer.
Speaker Change: The portfolio is in run off its got 16% total reserve with discounts against that theres going to be charge offs against that reserve.
Speaker Change: But the key is halfway.
Speaker Change: Got enough allowance and discount against that portfolio to absorb the charge offs as it runs off.
Speaker Change: We think we do at this point.
Speaker Change: So pretty confident that we do I mean from a book like we said at 75% reserves on what we think will roll to am.
Speaker Change: The delinquent book has comparable.
Speaker Change: Reserves.
Speaker Change: And then the standard book has reserves that are probably four times.
Speaker Change: Three or four times, the rest of our consumer our homegrown consumer foot.
Speaker Change: So.
Speaker Change: We think we're appropriately mark I mean, we're.
Speaker Change: We.
Speaker Change: So we may have to charge offs I think we rolling through the three quarters of promo loans. That's one of the charge offs are coming and we add the second excuse me in the first quarter, we had about $20 million of promo loans mature.
Speaker Change: Paid all content of it rolls and of that Ken. So again that team is probably marked with $7 5 million.
Speaker Change: <unk> reserves.
Speaker Change: And if we can arrive.
Speaker Change: A round numbers and.
Speaker Change: So thats, what Matt cap side, we don't think that charge offs will be greater than seven and a half.
Speaker Change: But that's where we're that's where our remarks.
Speaker Change: Got it okay.
Speaker Change: Super Helpful. And then just last one for me you guys mentioned.
Speaker Change: A lot of the work has been done around the <unk> deconsolidation. So just.
Speaker Change: Best guess is in terms of when that should occur from a timing perspective and reminder, on what to pick up.
Speaker Change: And the gain could be.
Dennis Zimmer: So Dennis mentioned.
Dennis Zimmer: We made the changes operationally and whatnot.
Dennis Zimmer: Technically at the end of the first quarter, but then we have to evaluate whether.
Dennis Zimmer: Going through the accounting and GAAP requirements does that suggest that we no longer need to deconsolidation, if we come to that conclusion.
Dennis Zimmer: Would actually be effective March 31, so even though we havent reflected it in our numbers here.
Dennis Zimmer: We would reflect it we would revise the first quarter to reflect that.
Dennis Zimmer: And it would show up in our we would obviously make that public but it would show up in our results. When we file our 10-Q, which is scheduled for May 12, I believe.
Dennis Zimmer: So.
Dennis Zimmer: Again, no guarantee that we're going to come to that conclusion.
Dennis Zimmer: Still a lot of work to be done to sort through that it's a very complicated analysis, but if we did.
Dennis Zimmer: Make that determination it would be effective at the end of the first quarter.
Dennis Zimmer: We would.
Dennis Zimmer: Elect the fair value treatment for that investment.
Dennis Zimmer: Which means we would market to fair market value.
Dennis Zimmer: We're carrying it at basically zero, so we would book a substantial gain from writing it up.
Dennis Zimmer: And thats going to after required given the size of it we need a third party to do that evaluation, which were.
Dennis Zimmer: Getting in parallel.
Speaker Change: As NK.
Speaker Change: In case, we do get that determination or make that determination to be consolidated so that will be prepared.
Speaker Change: I can't tell you what that valuation is going to be.
Speaker Change: <unk> indicated publicly.
Speaker Change: That the VAT.
Speaker Change: Evaluate the value of the shares at the time of the Panacea Holding's capital raise at the end of 'twenty three.
Speaker Change: It was just under $20 million pre tax.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Given all the progress they've made since then.
Speaker Change: We'd like to think that it will be worth more than the valuation of that capital raise but.
Speaker Change: That's all subject to a third party valuation.
Speaker Change: Understood Okay guys.
Speaker Change: A lot of help I appreciate it that's it for me.
Speaker Change: Thank you for your questions.
Speaker Change: Ladies and gentlemen that will conclude our Q&A session for today, Dennis I'd like to hand, it back over to you for any closing comments.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you again for.
Matt Switzer: Joining the call and your interest if you have any questions or comments Matt.
Matt Switzer: Our available give us a ring. Thank you have a great day.
Matt Switzer: Thank you.
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