Q1 2025 Las Vegas Sands Corp Earnings Call
Thank you for holding. We look forward to talking with you soon.
Speaker Change: Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands' first quarter 2025 earnings call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a list-known mode. We will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now our pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, singer-vice president of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours. Thank you.
Daniel Briggs: Thank you Paul, joining the call to their Rob Goldstein, our chairman, CEO , Patrick Dumont, our president and chief operating officer, Dr. Wilton Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China and Greff Chum, CEO and president of Sands China and E.B.P.
Daniel Briggs: Today's conference call will contain four looking statements. We will be making those statements under the same harbor provision of federal security calls. A language for looking statements, including in our press release in AK biolinks, also applies to our comments made on the call today.
Daniel Briggs: and the company's action results materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking slides.
Daniel Briggs: David, in addition to the stuff non-GAAP measures , reconciliation to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release.
Daniel Briggs: We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call finally for the Q&A session. We ask those of interest to please pose one question and one follow-up question so we might fall. So we might allow everyone with interest, the opportunity to participate.
This present take is being recorded.
on that through the call over to Ross.
Rob: Okay, thank you Dan. Let's begin with the Cal. This is a competitive market that's not prudent as we've anticipated. However, we have the strongest assets in the market. We can perform better despite the challenge not going by. We have the strongest assets in the market that's not prudent as we've anticipated.
Rob: The Londoner is now fully open this time, 2,405 study rooms and suites as we prepare for Gold Reaking Day. Now we've completed the welcome projects to expect this asset to elevate our performance. Our focus is on improving our living and cash flow across the portfolio.
Rob: There is opportunity in every segment to show strong results. Our business strategy needs unchanged. We have designed our capital investment programs for sure. It will lead to both the cap and singing board. [inaudible]
Rob: We delivered 535 million dollars of EBITDA for the quarter in the account.
Rob: F.E.L. still continues to lead the market in gaining a non-hate revenue and even time. We have meaningful opportunities to grow in every segment. Our objective is to grow our shift of even time market. We have a unique product advantage in terms of scale, quality and diversity of product offers.
Rob: Turning to Ray Abbey Sands in Singapore, we will record a quarter of $6.5 million of the adjusted property even though an extraordinary achievement by any standard, I assume this is record even.ported for any gaming property in the world preview.
Rob: The results of MBS reflect the positive impact of our gaining investment programs in the growth of high-value tourism, with growing appeal of Singapore as a destination in the hands of our robust entertainment and life started from our challenges [inaudible]
Rob: We believe there is a considerable roadway for growth there as well. Again, thanks for doing the call and turn the call into the capture before you reach you underneath. Patrick. Thanks Rob.
Rob: When adjusted for lower than expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio properties would have been 31.6%, down 280 basis points compared to the first quarter of 2024.
Rob: All 2,405 rooms and suites at the Londoner Grand are now available for the upcoming May golden week.
Rob: Now that the refreshing process is completed, you're focused on delivering revenue and cash
Rob: margin at the Venetian was 35.3 percent while margin at the plaza and four seasons was 35.6 percent
Rob: We expect margin improvement as revenue grows, and we use our scale and product advantages to better address every market segment.
Rob: As the Londoner ramps up and is integrated into our co-tyre offerings, our competitive position will be stronger than ever. We look forward to utilizing our entire portfolio to grow revenue
Rob: Now turning to Singapore. MBS's EBITDA was 605 million at a margin of 52%. Given the mix of games and demonstrated player preferences over the last two years, we have updated our expectation for hold on rolling play at Rene Bay Sands to 3.7%.
There will natural defluxuations.
Rob: In a specific quarter given by game mix and player preference, we will continue to provide the illustrative impact of hold on our rolling play in Singapore in the next quarter.
Rob: The record financial results of marine-based sands reflect the impact of high quality investment in market-leading products and growth in high value tourism. We believe we are still in the early stages of realizing the benefits of our investments in marine-based sands. [inaudible]
Rob: Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we were purchased 450 million of LBS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of 25 cents per share.
Rob: Before going on to Q&A, I'd like to provide an update on the New York Development Opportunity.
Rob: We strongly believe in the development opportunity for land-based downstate Tuscito license in New York.
Rob: We also continue to believe that the National Coliseum site is the best location for that development opportunity and should be highly competitive in the New York
Rob: However, as we have previously stated the company remains concerned about the impact of potential legalization of eye gaming on the overall market opportunity and project returns.
Rob: We are in the process of attempting to secure an agreement with a third party to whom we can transact the opportunity to bid for a casino license on the National College of M7.
Rob: This would include those that may be able to address both land-based and digital markets in New York.
Rob: For Las Vegas Sands, we believe the highest investment use of our capital in the near term is to purchase LVS and SCL shares
Rob: Accordingly, LVS has decided not to bid for casino license in New York
Rob: We believe repurchases of LVS equity to our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and shareholders over the long term.
Rob: Our board has increased our share repursus authorization to $2 billion million dollars.
Rob: We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repursus program to increase returns to shareholders in the future. Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.
Rob: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. The floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad now.
Rob: If listening on speakerphone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up Please hold a moment while we pull for questions Please hold a moment while we pull for questions and one follow-up
Speaker Change: And the first question today is coming from Carlo Santarelli, from Deutsche Bank [inaudible]
Carlo, your line is live.
Yeah, hey, thanks everybody.
Speaker Change: Rob Patrick, thanks for your comments. As anyone could kind of see when you look at, you know, the evaluation of the Hong Kong listing and what it implies basically for the corporate and Singapore.
One understands kind of the...
willingness and desire to kind of repurchase shares. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: As you do think about the two entities though and the various repurchases across both and your stake in the Hong Kong listing specifically, how are you guys kind of balancing the way you more or less go about those allocations right now? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: So, appreciate the question. You've heard us say it on prior calls. We see beautiful value about the LDS and SCL equity and we're going to continue to act with this belief. [inaudible]
So we were active during the quarter at LDS.
Speaker Change: I think our goal is to really be active in both SEL and LVS equity [inaudible]
Speaker Change: and continue to march towards that 74.9, and you'll see us do that. I think on the LVS side, you know, we think the valuation where our stock is currently is very attractive for us, we're going to be aggressive in the way that we buy back shares, and then we have done previously. So we viewed as an opportunity and we're going to continue to be active in the share of purchase market for both SCL and LVS. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Great, thanks. And then if I could just a quick follow-up, obviously the decision to raise the theoretical on the VIP side in marine basins makes sense relative to the history here over the last two years. As you look at however on the mass side, hold was up nicely and I know. Let's go.
It's always tough to kind of... [inaudible]
Speaker Change: and guesinate what Handel would have been in a normalized, told environment and how to think about all of that. But when you look at kind of the impact, the higher hold year over year on the mass side, mass table side specifically had [inaudible]
Speaker Change: on MBS. Is there any way you guys could maybe outline how you think about that the potential you've got benefits that stemmed from that?
Speaker Change: Because if the problem is, you know, it doesn't matter how high-end or mass the problem is, it depends on what the customer is bad.
Speaker Change: For years, people have discussed this, and guessed the handle, or the whole percentage, and false drama, and so on. This takes the guesswork out of the basis, actually, not the fact that it's perfect. And that's our goal, and we have that explanation that it costs both problems, and both future restrictions in the future.
Speaker Change: I think the most important thing here is that, while, you know, MBS obviously is impacted by hold our rolling program, really the outperformer at Rebeshands has been a mass segment.
Speaker Change: You know, I think that really has been the story of René Bay-Sands. Yeah, I think our rolling business has improved in a meaningful way. But when you look at René Bay-Sands and the investments that have been made there, it's really to attract high value tourists on the mass side. And our premium mass and mass segment there has outperformed to an extraordinary level. And we think there's room to grow. Now that our renovation is complete.
Speaker Change: So, I think it's an important story to talk about how we see the uptake of these side bets and how it has moved our hold over time. I think our team there is a great work developing game types and innovating so that we can benefit from player preferences and these more aggressive bets. But at the same time, it's really a master of the story based on the investment and the not gaming amenities that are driving visitation and high value tourism. That's why you see the EBITDA that we have today.
I don't know [inaudible]
Speaker Change: DeKanda, and again, the difference is it's like sports where you read about the sports betting companies.
Speaker Change: When they have flashed that one, if one team is the other, the whole percentage is throughout
and the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
Thank you, everyone, for joining us today.
Speaker Change: The Morty Road, the Hopper, St. Bogger, Eastfield, a very gay clean house, a two-six, two-seven, because it's flatbeds for predominant
Speaker Change: And again, it will be very clear within the next year, the exact mathematical number. You want to be guessing more and say, it's going to be this though, it's going to range if I guess 3.8 out of 4%. But again, as these best proliferate, and people choose to make these side best, I think Bachram becomes more and more valuable to this company because it's our principal sources of revenue.
Speaker Change: and we should just caution everyone that with player preference and game mix
Speaker Change: and we're going to continue to be optimistic about the title games we put on the floor in terms of growth they can provide and we'll see what they do. The one thing that I was the best differences were happening every day in the Delta East Games, very valuable for the industry, very valuable for us and it's happening and getting better by the day and the more these bets can do, become more important, the more even that we'll grow. I think if they happen both and see, you're seeing the important thing that will happen with you all as well.
Thank you both very much [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley . Stephen, your line is lies
Speaker Change: has generally come to completion. It looks like there's some moving parts across the different properties. I'm curious if there's any thought process on some of the ones that maybe have lagged in terms of how you will reinvigorate growth there.
Speaker Change: Whether it's Venetian or others, or it's just really a question, but as the Londoner is kind of fully up and running, you'll see everything clicked.
Yeah, thank you Stephen, I'll take that question [inaudible]
Speaker Change: I think overall, yes, the focus will be ramping up the new product at London's grant. As Rob mentioned, we now have the 2,400 rooms and suites.
in full service.
Speaker Change: and you see us leveraging the asset, the new product to drive customer growth and obviously eventually revenues and give it up. But the ramp up will take its course over the next. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: 12 months without the early stages of it. We just got the full complement of the rooms in mid-April.
Speaker Change: As for the other properties, our intention is to maintain and grow each of the existing properties whilst Londoner is ramped up.
Speaker Change: So you see us focus across Venetian, Parisian for seasons and fans across all of the product segments and price points but yes, the driver of our customer growth will be the Londoner over over the next six to 12 months. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: and does the initial read in what you're seeing there change the way you think about
Speaker Change: CapEx and allocating capital across the different properties, are there any kind of renovations that you see in the future at some of the other properties?
Speaker Change: You know I have to tell you, I think Macau is...
Speaker Change: and you look at the potential and where its source markets are. The long-term potential there is absolutely incredible.
These we think the opportunity is their long term.
All right.
Speaker Change: I think we'll continue, Stephen, with regular upgrade and renovation of our existing assets.
Oh, that's a given, given we have...
But from here on, you should expect, yes, we will continue to reinvest back into the asset base.
Speaker Change: because we need to upgrade and keep up with the competition, but it will be regular renovation.
Speaker Change: where we'll be taking modest amount of keys out at any one time. And you'll see that, you know, over every year, every quarter, over the next several years as we upgrade the existing portfolio. Thank you very much.
Helpful, thank you, I'll jump back in the queue [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line of life.
Robin Farley: Thanks, I just wanted to circle back to the ramp up you mentioned for the Londoner and you did mention that it may take 12 months so I wonder if you could talk a little bit about you know
Speaker Change: Do you think that your market share results in Q1? Did the New London Room contribute to that, or would you say not really, like, that's not really indicative of where? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: You think your market share can go, and I guess I don't know if you can give a little more color around.
Speaker Change: Um, you know, you know, what would happen over the next four hours or why it would take 12 months? I know you'll have of course very easy comparisons to the disruption in Q2 and Q3 last year, but, um, you know, that maybe it's a little bit longer of a ramp up period than maybe people would have expected. Thanks.
Speaker Change: You know, I have to tell you, this is what we spend a lot of time talking about [inaudible]
and we're very focused on growing our business in Macau [inaudible]
Speaker Change: You know, unfortunately, we had 2,000 keys that we really, 2,405 keys that we really wanted to be available. That took a little while to get them.
Speaker Change: So during the quarter, we didn't have full access to all the inventory, we normally would have to bring the bear. So I think, you know, when you think about it, 1700 keys that we were out of 1400, 1600 keys we were out in average over the quarter is equivalent to not having a property available in your portfolio. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: And so I think now that it's back and we have the full strength of our portfolio, we're going to press very hard to continue to grow this business, recapture share, recapture EBITDA share, and grow revenue which will expand our margin.
Speaker Change: But we have some work to do. I think that's very clear to us. We know it. We acknowledge it. And there's some things we want to focus on in Macau to improve our outlook and grow our business.
Robin Farley: Robert, I think the reference to the 12 months is simply that [inaudible]
Robin Farley: In any new property of the scale, we are going to get better and better over time. That's really the point of that comment.
Speaker Change: In terms of the market share, yes, I think our results were impacted by the fact that we lost.
Speaker Change: Markership, against the prior year and sequentially, and we are looking with a new emphasis coming online.
We are looking to be competing harder for the revenues [inaudible]
Speaker Change: in a flat market, and we fully intend to compete with the Londoner, but also you can see some of our results in the other properties we're looking to improve the forms at Venetian as well as the other existing properties. So I think it's going to be a comprehensive effort to reactivate, engage new customer growth as well as to fully leverage the new property in Londoner, Grant.
Speaker Change: Thank you. And maybe just to follow up. Um, how I've talked about kind of wanting to review the non gaming investments and efforts of the confessioners. Do you have a sense of what they would like to see more over what they have? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: changed recently, or they would be looking for more of going forward. Thanks.
Speaker Change: I'll give my view and maybe Wilfred can also chime in here in terms of the policy direction. For us, we are continuing to focus on what we've committed to the government in terms of non-gaming investments.
Speaker Change: in upgrading the Venetian arena at a cost of around 200 million US dollars that was completed last year, that's a single biggest project that was completed for the concession commitment. And of course in terms of programming, in terms of developing sports and mega events.
Speaker Change: with strong international IP, will bring the NBA preseason games this October , which will be a multi-year partnership. Wilfred, do you want to add to how things are evolving in terms of the direction of non-gaming buttons?
Sure, I think the new administration now has...
Had time to look at the overall picture of...
Speaker Change: The Non-Gaming Development, and as long as we maintain our total commitment, they are looking to us to specialize in areas where we each do best. [inaudible]
What, how we do best in some of the areas? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: into the non-gaming investment. And the government is really looking into how best to coordinate the use of these proceeds.
Great, thank you [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from Shaun Kelley, from Bank of America. Shaun, your line of life.
Speaker Change: Foundation Recovery Now, and sort of both segments are struggling a little bit, and so I'm just kind of curious on the balance and sort of are you pivoting strategy at all to kind of lean into particularly the premium segment if that's the healthier one right now. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Shredded Yacht is leased and is refracted, so these are scallions and sides
Speaker Change: played to our advantage for years, and it was a huge advantage for us, and that's more difficult to think the right. And it's more competitive in the second. It's no longer a free segment or easy business, but got a very competitive. It's a competitive.
Speaker Change: Uh, in the end, I think our assets give us a, I think that we've built a handicap. This is one of the things they can so long it's a difficult. Now we have all these rooms back open again, we can serve as the basemask preamask. We've done well to preamask. We haven't done as well with the basemask, nor is the market provided opportunity basemask, but your observations is spot on. We were the leaders and the margin leaders as well of that base best side, which is much more difficult today. And that's been the conundrum of Mikael for us.
Speaker Change: I think now, though, it's a new day. Lunders open, it's extraordinary, both in terms of scale and quality. I think it introduces all kinds of opportunities for us to maximize that asset and grow again and get back in the game. We're disappointed by results in every second. We do better. We plan to do better, but I think your observations, unfortunately, make that market is highly competitive. It's based mass, pre mass. This is no easy segment anymore, Michele. I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid. I'm afraid.
Yeah, Shaun, I think to add to the the visitation question.
Speaker Change: Although you do see this strong visitation growth and recovery, you can see also from slide 20 of Stan's deck.
Speaker Change: Defrontation, especially, this court has been driven by the day-trippers from Guamville Province.
Speaker Change: because they've introduced a couple of new, multiple entry visas to Zhuhai and Henshin, and the Guangdong, Non-Gwangdong visitation.
Speaker Change: is still only a recovery rate of about 75%. So, clearly, overnight visitation, the customers are going to spend more coming from further away. That's still lagging.
Speaker Change: in Premium Mass, given a very competitive context in that segment, but that is the strongest segment. You're absolutely right in the observation. But we will continue to drive both Premium Mass and Base Mass, especially with the full infantry online now. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Great, thanks. And just as a follow-up, you know, this sort of alludes to, I think, a
Speaker Change: Comment that Patrick made in the, in the prepare remarks about sort of expecting margin improvement as revenue grows just I think as we did our math and and this is high level so could be off a little bit, but Macau op-ex we had up roughly seven percent across the properties, you know, this quarter and we kind of curious is that like the right run rate or are there things you can do to match cost to revenue again, maybe this was somewhat you know inflated by reopening of Londoner, you know, maybe maybe
Speaker Change: The reopening of the arena at the Venetian, I'm not sure exactly, but felt like it was that being up relative to kind of where revenues came in was a bit of a double issue for you.
Speaker Change: Again, your observation is right. The main contributors, just additional payroll costs that we incurred, both because of salary increases, but also additional head count as we opened up these new assets.
The Non-rolling Tables
Speaker Change: And we came down in that segment, so that's that's where you get that negative operating leverage. So hopefully we should be seeing the reverse of that over time as we compete. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: with the new assets and the existing properties for the customers and the revenues and as revenues improve we should see the positive operating leverage even with the payroll cost increase.
Thank you so much.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from Brandt Montour, from Barclays, Brandt, Your Line of Life.
Great, thanks everybody. Thanks for taking my question.
Speaker Change: So I'm curious, and I know you guys don't give a guidance or a comprehensive for look at the business but
Speaker Change: Golden Week in May, I'm just curious if April and or the Golden Week bookings that you see feel better than normal, normal or worse than normal, or how would you kind of characterize what you're seeing out there? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: I appreciate the question, but we don't talk about current quarter, so why don't we move on to your next question.
Okay, fair enough.
Sure, so the next question would be [inaudible]
Speaker Change: So next question would be on the Venetian. I'm curious, you know, I understand we kind of talked about the Eleanor a lot here and we kind of can see what's going on. A little bit with the
Speaker Change: But what about the Venetian, you know, is there something can you kind of walk us through the maybe the monthly
Speaker Change: Results in that property or how things evolved throughout the quarter and if that was sort of affected at all by other things in the portfolio and optimization changes that you'd made.
Speaker Change: I think it's straightforward, Brandt. I mean, Phoenician, we just had too sharp a decline in my road in Brevenue.
Speaker Change: especially in the premium math segment and we're addressing that. Obviously the whole percentage against both the prior year and quarter and quarter was actually much low as well but none of that's we're focused on driving the customer revenues.
Speaker Change: across all segments of a niche in premium bass and bass bass. It's fair to say it's as well patronized as well populated in terms of headcount as ever. In fact, we had quite significant growth.
in non-rolling tablehead count.
Speaker Change: during the quarter, both over the prior year and sequentially, but clearly disband.
Ahead Count
Speaker Change: Wasloa, and so we do need to drive to secure high-value customers in the premium mass segment to grow the revenues back at the nation.
Great. Thanks, everyone.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Joseph Delph from South Skahana. Show your line of life.
Joe Stauf: Thank you, Patrick, Rob Grant. Two questions on NBFs, please. I guess the first one...
Joe Stauf: Is there any way to assess, I guess, the level of consumer adoption, you know, especially for the mass customer?
Joe Stauf: for prop bets. Naturally, you know, kind of given the hire. Got in such a have on VIP that the adoption rate is higher, but I was just wondering how you guys think about it. [inaudible]
I don't think you can actually ever stay here [inaudible]
Speaker Change: And I think the truth is no one can predict this, but what you are seeing a little on the market is they are adopting or moving towards these prop bets in a way which I never thought we'd see these. Think about a whole percentage moving an entire point. It wasn't that long ago, 2.85 was the standard. We're now, Patrick mentioned 3.7. It could be 4.1. The truth is they are adopting these bets every day, both in the base mass, premium mass, and rolling segments.
Speaker Change: How much we keep moving after, I don't know, I can't predict that. I can't tell you about the ability now. We're competent with the new machinery and the smart tables to tell you what it should be exactly. You'll be able to tell for yourself. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: I think people of propensious bad is very hard to figure out. Some people are dying in the world bank.
Speaker Change: Betters or, you know, Flare Betters and some love prop bets. I don't think you can can pitch it whole anyone segment how they can bet. We have people at the super high who that's probably crazy and it's hard to imagine they not kind of money and others who are [inaudible]
died in a war of flatbedders.
Speaker Change: See these best, how he merchandise them, will be very important to the future of our business to merchandise these bets in a way where we get people to bet more in different directions. Flat betting just really helped our company's halt percentage where the industry. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: But I think we're in a new world here in Bacarot and it's a sounding new world. We're lucky to have it because imagine a point point more deep of whole what that does this company's revenue is an EBITDA, it's astounding. And we're seeing in Singapore, I think you'll see Michael as well at the time. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: But you can't wait in the cap or assess that you can't merchandise it better so people see it and have the ability to at least gravitate towards it.
Speaker Change: Understood, and maybe I have more games and you also, as you also, we also people spend their time thinking about developing these new games and how you do that, how you find new
Speaker Change: Understood. And maybe if I'll follow up on just the renovations in Tower 3, you know, what I guess very briefly are you are you still on on time to finish?
Speaker Change: Roughly in June and what just taken inventory of what are the big items still that need to be completed.
So Tower 3 is done.
Speaker Change: But the key thing is there's some things we're going to be doing in the lobby and the skypark over the next 59 months, but as a as a lodging capacity, we're there. The rooms is not the public space. Yeah, the rooms are good. It's the public space. I'm going to continue to work on throughout the year, but the rooms are there. And you're going to start seeing the benefit of those rooms in the upcoming quarter. [inaudible]
Okay, thanks, guys.
Thank you [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from George Choi from City Group, George Irlinus Life.
George Choi: Well, thank you very much for taking my question. Now, obviously, the introduction of the news side best was done in the Cal only in the middle of last year. I just wonder how popular are these news side best in the Cal thus far and how does it compare to Singapore?
Speaker Change: Is there any chance that you could also raise these theorists go over and count in less than two years' time?
George Choi: At George, actually, in terms of introducing new side wages, we had one set of introduction in Q2 of last year, and then...
The, the, the other, the latest one in October last year. So.
George Choi: Progressively, you're seeing strong take-up of all of these new wages. Obviously, Macau is a somewhat behind Singapore as a market. Some of these wages were introduced a lot earlier before Macau.
George Choi: So, well, in the beginning to see the adoption, but the adoption, I would say, is strong. A bad at this stage, yes.
George Choi: It's in Singapore, we do see a higher propensity to wager these side wages, but Macau is growing and over time who knows, as Rob says, you can't predict the precise distribution. All we know is that the propensity is increasing. [inaudible]
George Choi: I, anyway, I'm George and two more to become very similar. I believe that long term will be very similar. There's a whole percentage. [inaudible]
Thanks for the color. You know before we know.
George Choi: You're kind of us George, you know this already, right? Those kinds of words. And a question for me is on dividends, so you all appreciate the recent dividend resumption that stands China. Should we expect the pay ratio to be maintained at around 50% level? And I guess more importantly should we expect an increase in the dividends of LBS as a result?
from S. Hanna, David Amid Summation.
Speaker Change: So first off, in the honor of Sheldon Gialas, and I'd like to say yay to the dance, I think that's very important here, very applicable. I think the uh...
George Choi: The key thing here is we're very happy that the SCO Board determines you will just start paying a dividend again, than a China level.
George Choi: And we hope to be able to grow that, give it an over time, as our CapEx rolls off there, and as we generate more cash flow through revenue and EBITDA growth.
George Choi: So we're very excited about the opportunity to return to Capitol at the SCL level and to grow that dividend into the future. I think at the LVS level what you've seen us do in years past is really be very dividend heavy. And I think what you're seeing now is you sort of look at our return of Capitol, which is actually laid out on page 33 of our book.
George Choi: You can kind of see that our ratio from share of purchase . . .
George Choi: to Dividends has been very weighted towards share repurchases and if you sort of review our prior commentary on this call, you'll see that we're very focused on returning capitals who share repurchases.
George Choi: both at the OBS level and through the acquisition of further SCL shares.
George Choi: So while we don't necessarily target a specific dividend payer ratio, we do think where we are is healthy and sustainable for the long term for long term dividend growth. And as SEO continues to grow with dividend over time as we hope, we'll have the ability to return more capital at the LDS level.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question will be from Colin Mansfield from CBRE. Colin, your line is live.
Hey, everybody. Thanks for taking my question.
Speaker Change: Um, maybe the first one, uh, can you give a little bit of color around what drove the decision to repay the parent loan from Sands China back to the parent. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Um, just given, you know, we talked about that in the past. It was a pretty attractive cost of capital relative to where, you know, current spreads are. Um, so just kind of curious.
Speaker Change: What influenced that decision? And how should we think about, you know, future ability to give it in cash out of Macao? Was that part of the decision too? No.
All right, that decision was made at the STL board level [inaudible]
Speaker Change: But the general concept was SCL is performing in a strong way and it's growth opportunities. It's leverage level.
is quite low and, you know...
Speaker Change: and I think for STL, it was just negative carry, it was accumulating cash . . .
and why not pay down some pre-fable debt? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Since they didn't know him or needed it, as STL has access to the investment great credit market, if there's any reason to create an opportunity for further borrowing. So I think with access to the revolving credit facility that it had, its current capital structure, its leverage levels, any amount of cash that it was generating, it just made sense for STL to pay back and get rid of some negative credit.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's helpful, Carl, thanks, Patrick. Maybe second one for you, maybe just thinking about capital markets activity coming up, you know, with your upcoming refinancing, both at the hold co-level and also fans China, you guys are seasoned investment-grade issuer, you know, how are you guys thinking about?
Speaker Change: Timing, potentially tapping a capital market, so would you potentially lean on the revolver since you have capacity and liquidity there, too? I'm just how you thinking about that.
Speaker Change: So I think you'll see us address the 500 million of LVS bonds in 25 5
Speaker Change: and regards to the SEL bonds, the Billion 625 that comes due. We did actually, through the revolver refinancing there, we also initiated a turbo-lone that we did the ability to broaden that amount.
Speaker Change: So if we choose to access the hybrid credit markets, we have that opportunity, or we may put it into the term loan, which is also very favorable and offers a lot of flexibility. So we have an approach to both those maturities in 2025.
Speaker Change: Great. Thanks for the call, guys. Thanks for letting me get on. Thanks.
Appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Thank you. The next question is coming from Steve Wieczynski from Stiefel. Steve, you're lying as life.
Steve Wytczynski: Yeah, hey guys, get up and in. So bigger picture question that I'm not even sure you're going to have an answer or not, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
Speaker Change: You know Rob clearly there's a there's a lot of uncertainty around the you know the political environments in those. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: You know, the US and China, and I think, you know, the fear that's out there is, you know, China might at some point retaliate against US companies or something along lines and that's where a lot of investors have done these days. So, you know, I guess the question is, is that something Robert that kind of keeps you awake at night or do you view? [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Your relationship with China in very, very good standing at this point and that risk seems more low if that makes sense.
Speaker Change: First, I think we are not in mainland Shidewood in California. I think there is a difference [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Number one, do you think the county's orientation needs to be Beijing? Secondly, to your point, I think we have an incredible relationship with Beijing and we've worked on it for many, many years and it's very important to us. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: We're a big believer in the relationship between China and the US. We're very disheartened about what's happening right now. Hopefully we can get back on track. But it doesn't keep me up at night at all. In fact, I think we're in a very good position now. We've been the leader in CapEx, we've been the leader in developing non-gain assets. Sheldon has a legacy which stands well. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: I don't believe this right now, this dislocation in the country is sustainable. There has to be a deal with the two most powerful countries in the world. I remain steadfast, my lead is come back to much more normal, rational place quickly, to have to, and I'm hoping that happens sooner or even I anticipate. But no, it doesn't keep any of us up at night. We feel very committed to the cow and vice versa. It's been a very...
Speaker Change: Special Relationship, this company. And it began 20 plus years ago, and Shelton first went there and made that pitch for Kota. And I think the Chinese are, it's been criminal partners, the government cow, people in Beijing. We're grateful for their support over the years. And we didn't leave, we'll be there for many years to come beyond the concession. [inaudible]
and the Goldstein on Gelt radio show.
Speaker Change: But no, we're not concerned at all about our position in Macau, nor should we be.
Speaker Change: Okay, that's great color, I appreciate that Rob. And the second question real quickly, there've been some reports out there that the Singapore government wants to get, you know, probably a little bit more aggressive with driving visitation, you know, into their country moving forward. And obviously that, you know, that that should benefit NBS.
Speaker Change: So, first off I think Singapore is an unbelievable market for I value tourists [inaudible]
Speaker Change: and Singapore's Democratic Focus on creating opportunities for high-value tourism for many years and investing behind that thesis.
Speaker Change: and Air Force infrastructure and other things that create attractions to help create prominence and desirability to visit.
Speaker Change: Visit Singapore. And so I think for us, it benefits us, but we're also investing with this thesis.
Speaker Change: So if you look at how we invest the amenities that we're creating, the way we're positioning ourselves, the way other non-gaming operators are positioning their tourism offerings, it's really a special place [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Um, you know, I think for us it's very motivating and we're very excited to continue to invest there and expand our offerings there. It's a very, it's a very rare place. Singapore is rarefied there. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: and it's very special who goes to Singapore, the consumption habits, if you look at the retail consumption, the beverage consumption, the gaming play, the lodging consumption, it's really unique. And I think it's driven because of the overall goal of the government of Singapore, which is to create the opportunity for high-value tourism. And I think it's a very special opportunity. And I think it's a very special opportunity. And I think it's a very special opportunity.
Speaker Change: And so we've been benefiting it from it for the last 15 years, and the Singapore government has been great in terms of investing in the assets to drive tourism and we've been investing behind that. I have to say though, as much as same but the one place our asset is a wonderful asset within that place. [inaudible]
, , , , ,
Speaker Change: Special, as far as deducted the rooms, the product, the material is amazing, and it's enhancing important vice versa. So, going back to the vision of Singapore government's amazing, our vision is pretty good to build a built-up of it.
Okay, thanks guys, really appreciate it, that's great color [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Thank you. Thank you. The next question will be from Ben Chacon, from Muzebo. Ben, your line is life.
Thank you.
Ben Chaykin: Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. First in NDS, great margin results and strong mass performance.
Speaker Change: Would you just remind us, would you say that 1Q25 had a difficult comparison year-to-year from the bloodbills of large concert in the prior year as well as the easing of the China visitation policy, which I believe was also in the prior year or was a pretty clean comparison year and one follow up. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Well, first of all, I think both quarters were awesome. So it's a tough comp, but as a practical matter, this was a totally normal quarter.
Speaker Change: So I would say that there wasn't anything extra ordinary that happened in the quarter. This is pretty indicative of the performance of the business without any sort of anything that's out of the ordinary. What was he told us with that?
Speaker Change: And I think the key thing here is we really have been able to put the entire asset to work, which is something we haven't been able to do for a while because of all the construction activities. And we're really getting close to being able to see this thing really. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Get to the point where it's not experiencing any interruption due to the development work
Speaker Change: And I think the key thing is this quarter was very normal. To your point, last year's quarter did have the Taylor Swift concert, did have a lot of other things going on. They created very strong demand and very strong visitation. This quarter didn't.
Speaker Change: And so we were very fortunate that we had the results that we did credit to the team that is phenomenal work as Rob just referenced the buildings in phenomenal shape. We think it's the best building in the world and we're very proud of what we've accomplished, but you can see the results from the activities there.
Speaker Change: That's very helpful, and yeah, great, great result there. And it's switching to Macao, maybe just touching on the sequential market share and Macao again, fully recognizing that you had rooms out of service in one queue, but also acknowledging that rooms out of service in four queue as well. I guess it's the interpretation just from some of the previous commentary that it's harder for you to leverage the current type of gameplay or player in Macao, as it stands.
Speaker Change: I think sequentially room counts moved up marginally, so we're about $8,900 for Q4, 91 or $9,200 in Q1.
Uh, I think-
Speaker Change: Winters of the London Grand Ramp Up, that was really a very soft ramp for Q1 because we didn't have all of the rooms. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: And therefore, it didn't make sense for us to operate as many gaming units in the London the Grand Casino for the first quarter. But from now on, from April , you'll see obviously us in full ramp up mode.
Speaker Change: So, I'm not sure if that answers questions, but is there something else that you are asking then?
Well, we haven't addressed. No, that's not I appreciate it. Thanks
Thanks, Pat.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: And the final question today will be coming from David Katz from Jeffries, David Drew Linus' life.
You know, competition in competitive market in Macau quite a bit [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Um, you know, having been there not all that long ago and and heard a lot of them on the ground commentary about more of a benign promotional environment. Are you suggesting, you know, that, you know, we might start to see that change. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: as part of the Londoner ramp up when you use the word competition. What do you mean by that?
and Patrick Goldstein.
Speaker Change: Yeah, I don't have that Rob's comment. I think it's always been very, very competitive. I think we've just got to look at the competitive context.
and the use of new assets that we have.
and many more.
Speaker Change: A significant deterioration in that, but we've also got to reflect and see where our position is within that context.
Speaker Change: and with all of the new rooms online, we have put in time to compete hard to get more revenue. Well, there's a reduced liquidity, obviously, in 2019, reduced the top five results. So, in any market, we are stringed by $6.8 billion to see more competition, existing dollars are there, and you're seeing that in the count.
Speaker Change: I'm not saying we can't compete, I think we will compete well, but I think it would be foolish not to recognize that face masks, period masks, rolling, every segment in the cow is under pressure in terms of getting your fair share.
Speaker Change: Right. And if I can just follow that up, you know, one of the observations is, and I think some of the early questions were to this end is, you know, that the the premium mass arena seems to be, you know, getting quite a bit more crowded part of my question was. [inaudible]
Speaker Change: Are you planning to get more promotional? And I think that's what the word benign is really attached to, whether operators start becoming more promotional in how they compete.
Speaker Change: I'm not sure. I think it's a promotional that you have to look at it in different different ways. I mean, firstly, we're going to aggressively deploy new assets. I think that's a personal foremost.
Speaker Change: We have the largest scale in terms of the big product and the product and we need to drive that as hard as we can to maximise that scale advantage across all product types and across all price putters.
That's the second piece.
Speaker Change: In terms of marketing activities, there's always going to be tactical promotions . . .
That's that you can't even operate it does [inaudible]
Speaker Change: I think we're just going to be very active in engaging [inaudible]
Existing a new customers and reactivating all customers
Speaker Change: with the full inventory that we're going to have a disposal, and we're going to drive that very hard, because we intend to gain customers and gain revenues.
Thanks very much.
Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. This does conclude today's Q&A session and it does conclude today's conference call. You may disconnect your phone lines at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation.