Q1 2025 Vivid Seats Inc Earnings Call

May 6, 2025

Thanks for watching!

Speaker Change: Good morning and welcome to the Vivid Seats first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Following the management's prepared remarks we will open the call for Q&A. I would now like to turn the call over to Emily Epstein.

Speaker Change: Good morning and welcome to Vivid Seats' first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. I'm Emily Epstein, General Counsel at Vivid Seats.

Speaker Change: Joining me today to discuss David Seat's results are Stan Chia, Chief Executive Officer, and Larry Fey, Chief Financial Officer.

Speaker Change: By now, everyone should have access to our first quarter earnings press release, which was issued earlier this morning.

Speaker Change: During the course of today's call, we may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws.

Speaker Change: These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially.

Speaker Change: including the risks and uncertainties described in our earnings pass release, our most recent annual report on form 10k, and our other filings with the SEC.

Speaker Change: On today's call, we will refer to a Dusted Ipata, a Dusted Ipata margin and cash generation, which are non-GAAP financial measures that provide useful information for investors.

Speaker Change: To the extent reasonably available, a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their corresponding GAAP financial measures can be found in our earnings press release and supplemental earning slides.

Stan Chia: And now I would like to turn the call over to Stan.

Good morning everyone, and thank you for joining us today.

Stan Chia: Today, I'll share a recap of our first quarter results, updates on key priorities, and then discuss how we are strategically investing to drive our long-term success.

Stan Chia: Then I'll turn it over to Larry to share our financial results in more detail.

[inaudible]

Larry Fey: In the first quarter, we delivered 820 million of Marketplace GOV, 164 million of revenues, and 22 million of adjusted Yvita.

Larry Fey: Overall, it was a challenging year-over-year comparison, and we felt short of our expectations.

Larry Fey: We have continued to see robust competitive intensity while also seeing softening industry trends amidst consumer uncertainty.

Larry Fey: As we've all witnessed, economic and political volatility has impacted consumer sentiment and this uncertainty can also impact how and when artists and rights holders go to market.

Larry Fey: I want to emphasize that we remain confident in the resiliency of our industry and are excited for the long-term tailwinds driving North American live events.

Larry Fey: Although there is pressure on the consumer, we continue to see consumers prioritizing spending on live experiences over goods reinforcing our belief that while this is a period of volatility, the long term opportunity and trends remain attractive.

Larry Fey: We will continue to align our near-term priorities with this current environment while not losing sight of the long-term opportunities. And as we go forward, we will continue our cost-disciplined approach while making strategic and focused investments in both marketing and technology.

Larry Fey: Turning to those investments, we are focused on our product development capabilities and building on the strength of our differentiated platform.

Larry Fey: In the coming months, we will be releasing several fan-focused experiential enhancements within our app to optimize discoverability and inspire the live event consumer.

Larry Fey: These upcoming app enhancements will focus on elevating the customer experience, with key improvements to the navigation and personalization of our platform.

Larry Fey: We are also pleased with our ongoing investment in Game Center, which continues to foster significant engagement in our app.

Larry Fey: In the first quarter, we capitalized on popular culture moments with contests around tours like Beyonce and Bad Bunny, as well as our March Madness Bracket to Stacket game.

Larry Fey: These consumer engagement and experience efforts are designed to cultivate brand awareness and affinity for our platform.

Larry Fey: With limited marketing expense, we saw this in-app feature have a positive effect on our repeat rate for new customers who were acquired in the first quarter which was 55% higher for fans that had interacted with GameCenter.

Larry Fey: Similarly, GOV was 35% higher for new customers that had interacted with GameCenter.

Larry Fey: Turning to the seller side of our marketplace, we continue to invest in and demonstrate the power of Vivid Seats marketplace data through skybox.

Larry Fey: As we share, our industry leading ERP is utilized by over half of professional sellers to run their businesses.

Larry Fey: Additionally, we are pleased with our ongoing onboarding of Skybox Drive users. While the progress is encouraging, we look forward to seeing further meaningful increases in adoption over time.

Larry Fey: As we look at our path ahead, we remain committed to expanding our camp and taking a coordinated and deliberate approach to building out our global business for sustainable growth.

Larry Fey: After initiating our official European launch in the fourth quarter, in the first quarter we continued to build on and further develop the internationalization of our platform and capabilities.

Larry Fey: We will continue investing in favorable markets where we can scale our platform and look forward to international expansion supporting our group.

Larry Fey: On our last call, we discussed our strong 2025 partnership pipeline. We look forward to launching our new partnership with United Airlines, the world's largest airline soon.

Larry Fey: With over 130 million members, United's Mileage Plus loyalty program is one of the largest loyalty programs in the world, and those many members will be able to earn miles for purchasing tickets through Vivid Seats.

Larry Fey: Partnerships like this provide an important strategic advantage and allow us to drive a creative volume through our ecosystem and we expect this partnership to start contributing in the second half of 2025.

Larry Fey: Lastly, I'd like to provide an update on the progress we have made towards several initiatives outlined in our corporate responsibility and governance strategy since its launch in 2023.

Larry Fey: We recently published our 2024 results and are proud of the significant step forward we made in our sustainability goals this past year. These strategic practices underscore our ongoing commitment and dedication to our employees, customers, environment, and global communities.

Larry Fey: To conclude, while we are navigating a challenging environment, we will continue to focus on efficiency, sustainable unit economics, and the ability to strategically invest in our future growth.

Larry Fey: Regardless of macroeconomic conditions, we are confident that our operational discipline, differentiated offering, and lean cost structure will position us to perform over the long term.

Larry Fey: With that, I will turn it over to Larry for a more detailed review of the quarter and year.

Larry Fey: Thanks, Stan. We generated 820 million of Marketplace GOV in Q1, which was down 20% year over year. Total Marketplace orders were also down 20% versus Q1, 2024, while average order size was flat year over year.

Larry Fey: Regenerated 164 million of revenues in Q1, which was down 14% year over year.

Larry Fey: Own property revenues were down 14% while private label revenues declined 27%.

Larry Fey: Our Q1 marketplace take rate was 16.3%, up 70 basis points from 15.6% in Q1 2024.

Larry Fey: While take rate will continue to see variability, we anticipate near-term take rates will be in the 15 and a half to 16% range.

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Larry Fey: Q-1, 2025, adjusted EBITDA, was 22 million, down from 39 million in the prior year.

Larry Fey: This decline resulted from a combination of lower volume, higher marketing as a percentage of revenue, and negative operating leverage.

Larry Fey: There were unexpected changes in certain performance marketing channels during Q1, and we believe marketing efficiency will improve sequentially, while year-over-year volume declines will continue in the near term.

The End

Larry Fey: We ended Q1 with 393 million of debt and 199 million of cash with net debt of 194 million.

Larry Fey: Cast generation was negative during the quarter due to a combination of seasonal items, such as inventory build and annual bonus payments compounded by continued pressure on working capital due to organic volume declines.

Larry Fey: During the first quarter, we re-purchased $7 million worth of shares at an average price of $2.89.

John F.

Larry Fey: In terms of outlook for the remainder of 2025, we are suspending guidance

Larry Fey: While we previously anticipated continued competitive intensity, the additional variability across global economy, potential consumer softness, and atypical changes across the performance marketing landscape have combined to create a particularly broad range potential outcomes.

Larry Fey: We will start to lap easier, year-over-year volume counts in the second half of the year, but expect persistent competitive intensity to drive near term pressure.

I'll now hand it back to Stan for including remarks.

Stan Chia: Thanks Larry. Our historical approach has been to execute with disciplined rigor and focus on the things we can control. In this shifting environment, we are focused on operational discipline to manage the business for the long term.

Stan Chia: As we said before, we realize benefit from investing in our differentiated product, service, and value, and that is where we will continue to focus in this current environment.

Stan Chia: and with that operator, I'd like to open it up for questions.

Speaker Change: Thank you. At this time we will conduct a question and answer session. As a reminder to ask a question you will need to press star 1-1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Which are your questions? Please press star 1-1 again. Please stand by while we compile the coupon A roster.

Thanks for watching!

Speaker Change: The first question comes from Ryan Sigdahl with Craig Hallam Capital Group. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning, guys. I want to start with...

Speaker Change: In the context of that and the continued competitive intensity, namely from one of your skilled peers, does that change your strategy? I know you talked about, you know, defending unit economics last year, but focus more on defending market share this year, if that's still the strategy.

Speaker Change: Yeah, I think I'll first get a roll on the performance marketing side.

Speaker Change: We saw some changes actually in the Google channel and the way to do some of their data reporting.

Speaker Change: Unannounced change in consistent data across the multiple portals, and as best we can tell that, inconsistent data can help folks to bid more aggressively than they normally would. It related to splitting the auctions from one per page to two per page.

Speaker Change: So I think I'll say any industry allow that realize that the change has happened and recalibrate some of the metrics accordingly. So you had a...

Speaker Change: Dip in efficiency, industry-wide, I think around that. And then on top of it, I think the same song plays on repeat with the continued competitive intensity, adding to your ladder point. You know, it seems like our...

Speaker Change: The culprit is intent on continuing to put pressure on that channel. We have to assume indefinitely. And that pressure is certainly not a EVA, so as we look at that.

Speaker Change: Channel for volume, I think we are presuming it will remain under pressure from the foreseeable future in preparing to adjust the podium.

Speaker Change: Yeah, and then I think Ryan, as you ask, you know, I think the question I think.

Speaker Change: For us, I think we continue to try to invest really for the long term and building out capabilities that I think ideally allow us to do both, which is continue to drive profitable growth and discipline unit economics while continuing to focus on recapturing sure at the appropriate time.

John F.

Speaker Change: Great. From my follow-up, just curious if you've seen the change, your industry expectations from mid-single digits to flat to down, I guess, is that entirely the consumer and how much of that have you seen year-to-date versus...

Speaker Change: You know, just taking a more conservative approach given all the volatility. That's happening in the economy for what could happen later this year. And then I guess, secondly, have you seen any changes to either the mix or amount of concert supply that you're expecting for this year.

Yeah, I'd say...

Speaker Change: You know, we think we alluded in the last quarter to the year starting out strongly.

Speaker Change: and then softening into February and March. We've actually seen a little bit of a bounce back in April .

Speaker Change: I think just given the broader economic environment, we felt like it made sense to display expectations even though we are continuing to see some level of chalkiness month to month.

The end of the video.

Speaker Change: Any change on the supply side? That's it for me. Thanks, yes.

Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from Curtis Nagle with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Curtis Nagle: Sure, maybe I'll just follow up on that a little bit. Maybe Stan, could you extrapolate on that comment that

Curtis Nagle: When Red Holders go to market, are you actually seeing artists pull back or maybe delay

Stan Chia: Hey Curtis, yeah you look, I think no surprise, not our industry alone, but certainly across multiple consumer-facing segments, I think there is a lot of volatility in our industry and when you look through.

Stan Chia: I think even others who participate, there's probably been you know what we see as a seasonal

Low in terms of what we've seen come to market.

Stan Chia: That being said, I think April is, I think, live nation called out certainly.

and early period of...

Stanley Chia, Kate Africk

Larry Fey: Okay, got it. And then just maybe one for you Larry, just in terms of take rate expectations to those change, right? I think what we're 15 and a half to 16 now, I thought maybe was supposed to be a little bit higher for the rest of the year, but again, maybe I misinterpret it.

So just any clarification there would be great [inaudible]

Larry Fey: Yeah, I think that we zoom out a little bit, you know, when going back to early 24, we had said it's about 15 and a half percent or higher, 24, you know, as we were optimizing the economics, we came.

Larry Fey: Above that level, but I think in prior falls alluded to, you know, perhaps we overshot the mark a little bit so kind of trip that down to

Larry Fey: That original 15 and a half percent or higher level as a reasonable guidance level, he will continue to be.

Larry Fey: Opportunistically looking to move levers where we see opportunities up or down, but I think that was when we were getting into that 17th of a separate age, I think we were probably over prioritized and sacred relative to volume.

Okay, understood. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks for watching!

[inaudible]

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Thomas Forte with Maxim Group. Please go ahead.

Great thanks, so.

Thomas Forte: You compare what you're seeing in concerts versus sporting events versus theater and comedy.

[inaudible]

Yeah, maybe start with that.

Industry level of volume, and then we can move to...

Within that, I think the concert landscape has been particularly...

in terms of your rear-line trends, and we alluded to it.

January being a double digits Andrew.

Thomas Forte: Marching it up down, double digits, April back up, double digits and so if you have a concert.

Thomas Forte: That continued issue, where when you look on monthly basis.

Thomas Forte: This is the timing or event mix of which on sales happened to fall in which month can lead you to a dangerous conclusion if you take the last month and assume that trend continues indefinitely.

Ah.

Bye!

Thomas Forte: Sports has been down a bit at the industry level. Yeah, there were some tough cons, where I was starting out and easy comp with the new college football playout, but tough, super bowl. We had Copa America last year, we had Peyton Clark

Thomas Forte: We'll have a tough world series coming up later in the year, so I would expect that sports growth will lag the rest of the industry, and then theater has been quite strong at the industry level, bolstered by a couple pretty meaningful comedians.

Thomas Forte: Tours, see really nice growth in that category, folks like Shane Billis and the like. Our performance relative to the industry, I think, has been broadly similar.

Thomas Forte: It may be, we slightly under-indexed on the fear of performance, but across words and the concert pretty, pretty consistent, as well as performance under-indexed.

Thanks for watching!

Thomas Forte: Great, thanks, Larry. For my follow-up, I know you're suspending guidance for a full year, but can you give your current high-level thoughts on...

Strategic M&A, Investing in the Business George.

Yeah, I think as you die, die.

Speaker Change: Drift's lower relative expectations this year is DOE Drift's lower relative to original expectations.

Thomas Forte: You'll have, unfortunately, that dual effects of continued pressure on our flow and thus work in capital contribution, which as we talked about in a growing environment as a source, but when you're offering organic declines like we continue to see it, we come to you.

Thomas Forte: And then, you know, we have our interest expense, we have our cat that goes our effectively fixed cash

their amount of cash that comes out the bottom.

Get your press as well, so having sat sitting here today with the negative cash outflows that we saw on Q1, I think good.

Thomas Forte: Approoting the calculation for our cash generation without the fairly winning and honorable year basis that's certainly well below what we are exactly coming into the quarter. And then terms of capital allocation. I continue to be

Voliouware of...

Thomas Forte: Our valuation and multiple interjectory, so high bar, the state of the leagues for M&A.

Thomas Forte: and then I think we continue to have cash flexibility to make the right investments operationally in subject to our view on valuation and the share price will continue to consider and pursue share purchases

John F.

Great, thanks Larry. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

[inaudible]

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Maria Ripps with Canacord. Please go ahead.

Maria Rips: Good morning and thanks for picking my questions. Can you maybe talk about expectations around your market share dynamics versus flood-to-down industry volumes for the year and could we actually see June be sort of returning to growth by the end of the year?

James

Maria Rips: Yeah, I think if you sort of map a flatish industry in Q1 against our...

G-O-B being down in 20, you can get it.

Fair Proxy for share impact, and I think that...

Maria Rips: Predominantly, it's coming out of the performance marketing channels. We see a similar trajectory if not worse across other players in the space that are heavily indexed towards the performance marketing channels.

Speaker Change: Yeah, I think we talked about last year starting to last some easier.

Speaker Change: Sorry, we will start to last some easier comms as we suffered additional chair pressure in the second half of last year we have some

Speaker Change: Nice pride to label wins, but I think at this point, you know, assuming a Q2 trajectory that's broadly in line with Q1 is prudent and why certainly anticipate second half looking better with what we've seen today, I'd be hesitant to forecast a reversion to growth.

Speaker Change: That's helpful. And then, you talked about being mindful in terms of mutual investment here. If there is a level of EBDA margin that you would like to maintain regardless of the macro dynamics and competitive environment.

James

Speaker Change: Yes, and I think we'll have to continue to be dynamic, frankly, the pressures that we've seen play out year to date have come in.

Well above what we had anticipated coming into the year.

Speaker Change: and so it continues to be a fluid exercise, but yes, we are continuing to.

Speaker Change: and how much marketing spend to balance profitability and volume. Obviously we're already in a tough volume position, so the end dollar of marketing that you pull back while it may be the dog free to will further pressure volume and share.

Speaker Change: It's strong fight, so we're continuing to look everywhere we can for efficiency to retain as much even as possible to it. It's a night fight at the moment.

Audit, thank you, Larry.

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Cameron Manson-Perot with Morton Stanley, please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Thank you, Morning. You mentioned still being excited about growing the TAM. I was wondering if you could elaborate just on, I know I realized this early but

Speaker Change: Any additional update in terms of your international efforts and what's progressing there, any early learnings?

Speaker Change: and then on the performance marketing front, I was just wondering if you...

Speaker Change: Could elaborate on or give us some additional color on how your participation in performance marketing has evolved to where it stands today. How would you characterize your level of activity or spend there today relative to a year ago or two years ago? It would be helpful, thanks.

Speaker Change: Yeah, hey Cameron, I'll take the first one, you know, I think on- [inaudible]

Speaker Change: International. I think we remain pretty pleased with the early signs while, as you said, Nathan, I think our efforts continue to be...

Speaker Change: really focused on building up scale across the multiple dimensions of the marketplace, be that supply, demand, and spinning up our infrastructure and technology across those spaces.

Speaker Change: But early reads have been pretty positive and we continue to be excited about expanding that global reach and that TAM as well.

Speaker Change: On the, you know, I think marketing side as you think about that I think we continue that continues to be a large channel for us so I'd say proportionately we probably haven't seen.

A large difference in mix [inaudible]

Speaker Change: However, I think we continue to invest in diversifying that being aware of, I would say, you know, various components of the changes in that channel as we alluded to in the earnings.

Speaker Change: and then building out the components of our platform that drive stickiness within. That's certainly where we're focused for the long term.

Got it. That's helpful. Thank you

Thanks for watching!

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Andrew Marok with Raymond James. Please go ahead and go ahead.

Speaker Change: Hi, thanks for taking my questions. You were pretty clear on a lot of the dynamics of acting, order, volume, and the things going on there, but wanted to think about the AOS variable, given that there's presumably a macro headwind, but you're also entering a period of easier comms once you lap the Vegas.com and the way-desh impacts. Thank you.

What happened?

Speaker Change: Interestingly, industry average order size is now a few points, so we...

He's slightly higher than industry on, on overall price point.

You know, hard looking into the balance of the year to have.

Speaker Change: A precise view. You know, I do think we are likely facing a better concert environment in terms of the lineup and supply than we were last year.

Speaker Change: and at least out of the today a lesser consumer environment and sort of net those two together is going to be.

Speaker Change: You know, it's hard to say with precision, but I think at the moment I would say flat seems like it's good to get to finish.

Dr.

Speaker Change: I appreciate it. And then really quickly, another marketing question, I guess.

Speaker Change: Has there been or could there really be any response to maybe some value-based messaging like around the savings provided by the loyalty program? Could that help in any meaningful way or is it just the case where sometimes people get economically pressure and they say no amount of loyalty discount will help me convince me to buy tickets?

Speaker Change: Yeah, we've, I think we've pretty consistently seen pricing impacts, purchase behavior. Yeah, we really haven't lived through a...

Bye!

Substantial or persisting? [inaudible]

Speaker Change: Period of consumer softness, other than COVID which I think was exceptional in a lot of ways where I could say was actually quantified.

But we've always seen that there is still.

Consumer Response to Value Props

Eying our task continues for detriving.

Speaker Change: more awareness of that loyalty program. I hope that happens. We see good behavior shifts, but we indeed continue to make folks aware and have them appreciate and understand how housing is going to get the value.

Different's really interesting [inaudible]

Rickson, thank you.

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Dan Kurnos with the benchmark company. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Maybe it.

Speaker Change: A few, I guess, Stan. I don't think we've addressed some of the regulatory stuff, whether it's the Trump executive order or the ticket act with the concierge component in it. So maybe start there and just give your thoughts on either impact to the industry or how you view that play to hope.

Speaker Change: Yeah, hey Dan, we are and have always been I think really supportive of all the regulation that is targeted at providing transparency for consumers in the industry, you know I think.

Speaker Change: One, it's fundamentally a tenant that we believe in, and two, perhaps more on the competitive side. We believe that our leaner cost structure as well as pricing for consumers generally tends to always be lower than the competitive set. So I think whether it is...

Speaker Change: The Reason Executive Order, the Various Acts that are looking at it or the FTCs.

Speaker Change: Order that coming into play. All are really focused on price transparency and we are quite supportive of all of that and are looking forward to a level playing field as it pertains to transparency and price to consumers.

The End of The End

Got it, that makes sense. And then…

Speaker Change: Not to sort of, you know, go on with this too much, but just in terms of the native delta between the primary and secondary markets, you know, live nations, demand comments were a little bit more upbeat. I hear you, particularly Larry on the supply challenges, like we've seen that in the marketplace.

Speaker Change: But, you know, ticket pricing being higher in the secondary market. I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much you guys are concerned about.

Speaker Change: You know, the consumer relative to it being more of a competitive issue and if the higher secondary ticket pricing, you know, general relative to primary has it is playing a factor on your view on the demand equation.

David

Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean, I certainly characterized our main challenge at the moment as Chair, I think we continue to believe the overall industry trajectory is

Speaker Change: Robust. It continues to prove resilient relative to other consumer facing categories. I think we continue to believe that there's healthy growth over a multi-year period.

Speaker Change: It's a bit specific to the Oxford's Live Nation commentary, you know, that probably has

Speaker Change: White style is a big difference. Whenever we look at things we see, fully come out, I think where it is probably a bit more.

Speaker Change: Captain, and I think again, they might know a little more than we do on what's coming to the balance of the year.

Speaker Change: But from what we've seen, it's a fine line. I don't want to suggest otherwise.

but given what we saw on February and March.

Speaker Change: I think, you know, we see a couple consecutive months of softness. I'll be as buttured as by-

Speaker Change: by Strength on either side of it. With the broader uncertainty, I think, we wanted to frame that

Speaker Change: on the margin. We're feeling more cautious, not less. And you know, when you look across what folks are saying in real time, I think there's a broader diversity of perspectives on how everything is looking at the moment then and you saw it three or five months ago.

Speaker Change: You got it. Super helpful. And just lastly, on the marketing, which a lot of people have touched on, but I guess Stan or Larry, in terms of mix, like socials having kind of a moment right now, United is a huge win for you guys. Obviously you guys have been really good with the partnership side. Thank you.

Speaker Change: I mean, how do you contemplate channel mix at this point and are you developing some? Hmm.

Speaker Change: You know, it's kind of maybe more clever ways to work more closely with some of the players to either define your own algos or however it is to get, you know, even further efficiencies in the channel that had a maybe a momentary tailwind but is going to probably revert to the mean in the back after the year. [inaudible]

Speaker Change: Yeah, thanks for that, Dan. I think it's actually really a suit point. You know, I think as you see our focus on partnerships a lot of, you know, our leverage of the distribution platform that we have has been on. Thank you very much.

Speaker Change: We continue to focus on finding deals like that where also we'll have cross-branded opportunities to drive a halo into the Vivid Seats platform.

Speaker Change: And then more broadly, you know, on the social side, we continue to think that too is an area where we are making investments using, you know, I think

Speaker Change: AI oriented tools to drive and scale creative in a way that wasn't possible before. And so I think we look excited to the future as we lean heavier into that channel and look for more, I would say, a creative value out of that as we invest.

Got it. Thanks for bearing with me, guys. Appreciate it.

[inaudible]

Chia

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Ralph Schackart with William Blair. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Morning, thanks for taking the question. Just some of the marketing changes that you called out and Google makes changes from time to time. I'm sure you can't work through them historically. But maybe if you sort of frame the order of magnitude of this change versus what you've seen historically in just some sense, you know, from your perspective on, you know, the work around or how long you and or the industry will be able to work through this change as well. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

You know, I think you're a little bit of a dangerous batter.

Speaker Change: Topic, just because it is still a lot of black box and some magic that it's hard to know with precision. What's happening?

I would say this change [inaudible]

Speaker Change: As best we can tell, we're not universally ruled out, but it did hit our industry and we saw it.

Speaker Change: to realize that it was impacting everyone universally. And so everyone saw a kind of correlated almost to the day.

Speaker Change: Arrosion, inefficiency that persisted for a few weeks ultimately, I think was.

Keep forwarding.

Speaker Change: I know how does this compare to other changes they've made, hard part of the speed, precisely on that, but yeah, it's a little bit like piling on, right? When you're already in a hyper competitive performance environment.

Yeah, folks, I think trying to...

Speaker Change: You know, effectively make it difficult for others to compete when you later on, you know, black black box out, we're going to make changes on top of it, it's just, it's helped.

Olson talked about, but

Speaker Change: You'll call it footprint, performance marketing footprint, continuing to move towards

Speaker Change: efficiency that they are extracting and realizing is it because they continue to lean higher on spend and are accepting more volume for lower profit or is there an incremental change in the Google algorithm?

Speaker Change: where they were awarding different big-type zip-digators relative to prior history, and it'll take a little more time for us to get clarity across those three incremental variables beyond the specific change that I would call for like a glitch in February .

That's helpful. Thanks, Eric.

Speaker Change: Thank you. I'm showing no further questions at this time. This concludes the question and answer session. Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This concludes the program. You may now disconnect.

[inaudible]

James

Thanks for watching!

James

Jason Bazinet, Ralph Schackart, Thomas Forte, Thomas

David

Thank you for watching!

The End of The End

Michael Jackson, Andrew

And these are the stars you need to beware of

Thank you for watching!

[inaudible]

Music Music Music Music Music Music

Speaker Change: Townsend Children's Library � shoe shop, leisure club, animated tv, ishery, heritage, video library, nursery school,

Thank you for watching!

Music Music Music Music Music Music

James

Jason Bazinet, Ralph Schackart, Thomas White, Andrew Marok, Thomas

Speaker Change: Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson

Speaker Change: Good morning, and welcome to the Vivid Seats' first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Following the management's prepared remarks, we will open the call for Q&A. I would now like to turn the call over to Emily Epstein.

Speaker Change: Good morning and welcome to Vivid Seats first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. I'm Emily Epstein, General Counsel at Vivid Seats.

Speaker Change: Joining me today to discuss David Seats' results are Stan Chia, Chief Executive Officer, and Larry Faye, Chief Financial Officer.

Speaker Change: By now, everyone should have access to our first quarter earnings press release, which was issued earlier this morning.

Speaker Change: During the course of today's call, we may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal security's laws.

Speaker Change: These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially.

Speaker Change: including the risks and uncertainties described in our earnings pass release, our most recent annual report on Form 10K and our other filings with the SEC.

Speaker Change: On today's call, we will refer to a Dusted Ipata, a Dusted Ipata margin and cash generation, which are non-GAAP financial measures that provide useful information for investors.

Stan Chia: And now, I would like to turn the call over to Stan.

Good morning everyone, and thank you for joining us today.

Stan Chia: Today, I'll share a recap of our first quarter results, updates on key priorities, and then discuss how we are strategically investing to drive our long-term success.

Larry Fey: Then I'll turn it over to Larry to share our financial results in more detail.

Larry Fey: In the first quarter we delivered 820 million of Marketplace GOV

164 million of revenues, and 22 million of adjusted Yvita.

Larry Fey: Overall, it was a challenging year-over-year comparison and we fell short of our expectations.

Larry Fey: We have continued to see robust competitive intensity while also seeing softening industry trends amidst consumer uncertainty.

Larry Fey: As we've all witnessed, economic and political volatility has impacted consumer sentiment and this uncertainty can also impact how and when artists and rights holders go to market.

Larry Fey: I want to emphasize that we remain confident in the resiliency of our industry and are excited for the long-term tailwinds driving North American live events.

Larry Fey: Although there is pressure on the consumer, we continue to see consumers prioritizing spending on live experiences over goods, reinforcing our beliefs that while this is a period of volatility, the long-term opportunity and trends remain attractive.

Larry Fey: We will continue to align our near-term priorities with this current environment while not losing sight of the long-term opportunity. And as we go forward, we will continue our cost-disciplined approach while making strategic and focused investments in both marketing and technology.

Larry Fey: Turning to those investments, we are focused on our product development capabilities and building on the strength of our differentiated platform.

Larry Fey: In the coming months, we will be releasing several fan-focused experiential enhancements within our app to optimize discoverability and inspire the live event consumer.

Larry Fey: These upcoming app enhancements will focus on elevating the customer experience with key improvements to the navigation and personalization of our platform.

Larry Fey: We are also pleased with our ongoing investment in GameCenter, which continues to foster significant engagement in our act.

Larry Fey: In the first quarter, we capitalized on popular culture moments with contests around tours like Beyonce and Bad Bunny, as well as our March Madness bracket-to-stacket game.

Larry Fey: These consumer engagement and experience efforts are designed to cultivate brand awareness and affinity for our platform.

Larry Fey: With limited marketing expense, we saw this in-app feature have a positive effect on our repeat rate for new customers who were acquired in the first quarter, which was 55% higher for fans that had interacted with Game Center.

Larry Fey: Similarly, GOV was 35% higher for new customers that had interacted with GameCenter.

Larry Fey: Turning to the seller side of our marketplace, we continue to invest in and demonstrate the power of Vivid Seats marketplace data through Skybox.

Larry Fey: As we've shared, our industry leading ERP is utilized by over half of professional sellers to run their businesses.

Larry Fey: Additionally, we are pleased with our ongoing onboarding of Skybox Drive users.

Larry Fey: While the progress is encouraging, we look forward to seeing further meaningful increases in adoption over time.

Larry Fey: As we look at our path ahead, we remain committed to expanding our TAM and taking a coordinated and deliberate approach to building out our global business for sustainable growth.

Larry Fey: After initiating our official European launch in the fourth quarter, in the first quarter, we continued to build on and further develop the internationalization of our platform and capabilities.

Larry Fey: We will continue investing in favorable markets where we can scale our platform and look forward to international expansion supporting our group.

Larry Fey: On our last call, we discussed our strong 2025 partnership pipeline.

Larry Fey: We look forward to launching our new partnership with United Airlines, the world's largest airline soon.

Larry Fey: With over 130 million members, United Mileage Plus Loyalty Program is one of the largest loyalty programs in the world, and those many members will be able to earn miles for purchasing tickets through Vivid Seats.

Larry Fey: With that, I will turn it over to Larry for a more detailed review of the quarter and year.

Larry Fey: Thank you, Stan. We generated 820 million of marketplace GOV and Q1, which was down 20% year-over-year.

Larry Fey: Total marketplace orders were also down 20% versus Q1 2024, while average order size was flat year over year.

Larry Fey: We generated 164 million of revenues in Q1, which was down 14% year-over-year.

Larry Fey: Own property revenues were down 14 percent, while private label revenues declined 27 percent.

Larry Fey: RQ1 marketplace take rate with 16.3% up 70 basis points from 15.6% in Q1 2024.

Larry Fey: While take rate will continue to see variability, we anticipate near-term take rates will be in the 15 and a half to 16 percent range.

[inaudible]

Larry Fey: Q1 2025 Adjusted EBITDA was 22 million, down from 39 million in the prior year.

This decline resulted from a combination of lower volume.

Larry Fey: Fire Marketing as a percentage of revenue and negative operating leverage in the U.S.

Larry Fey: There were unexpected changes in certain performance marketing channels during Q1 and we believe marketing efficiency will improve sequentially while year-over-year volume declines will continue in the near term.

The End of The End

Larry Fey: We ended Q-1 with 393 million of debt and 199 million of cash with net debt of 194 million.

Larry Fey: compounded by continued pressure on working capital due to organic volume declines.

John F.

Larry Fey: During the first quarter, we repurchased $7 million worth of shares and an average price of $2.89 cents.

The End

Larry Fey: In terms of outlook for the remainder of 2025, we are suspending guidance [inaudible]

Larry Fey: We will start to lap easier, year-over-year volume counts in the second half of the year, but expect persistent competitive intensity to drive near term pressure.

Stan Chia: I'll now hand it back to Stan for including remarks.

Stan Chia: As we said before, we realize benefit from investing in our differentiated product, service, and value, and that is where we will continue to focus in this current environment.

https://www.youtube.com or the link in the description below

Speaker Change: And with that operator, I'd like to open it up for questions.

Speaker Change: Thank you. At this time we will conduct the question and answer session. As a reminder to ask a question you'll need to press star 1-1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Which are your questions? Please press star 1-1 again. Please stand by while we compile the coup Q&A roster.

Speaker Change: The first question comes from Ryan Sigdahl with Craig Hallam Capital Group. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning, guys. I want to start with...

Speaker Change: Yeah, I think you'll first get a role on the performance marketing side.

Speaker Change: We saw some changes actually in the Google channel and the way to do some of their data reporting.

Speaker Change: And so it took, I think, us and the industry, a while to realize that the change has happened and retaliate some of the metrics accordingly. So you had a...

Dip in efficiency industry-wide. I think around that [inaudible]

Speaker Change: And then on top of it, I think the same song plays on repeat with the continued competitive intensity at your ladder point, it seems like our...

Speaker Change: The culprit is intent on continuing to put pressure on that channel. We have to assume indefinitely. And that pressure is certainly not alleviated. So as we look at that.

Speaker Change: Channel for volume, I think we are presuming it will remain under pressure for the foreseeable future and preparing to adjust the podium.

Speaker Change: Yeah, and then I think Ryan is as you ask, and I think the question I think.

Speaker Change: For us, I think we continue to try to invest really for the long term and building out capabilities that I think

Speaker Change: Ideally allow us to do both, right, which is continuing to drive profitable to the end of the day.

Growth and Disciplined Unit Economics while continuing to focus on, you know, I think recapturing sure at the appropriate time.

Speaker Change: Great. From my follow-up, just curious if you've seen the change. Your industry expectations from mid-single digits to flat to down, I guess, is that entirely the consumer and how much of that have you seen year-to-date versus...

Speaker Change: You know, just taking a more conservative approach, given all the volatility. It's happening in the economy for what could happen later this year. And then I guess, secondly, have you seen any changes to either the mix or amount of concert supply that you're expecting for this year. [inaudible]

Yeah, I'd say...

Speaker Change: You know, we think we alluded in the last quarter to the year starting out strongly.

Speaker Change: and then softening into February and March. We've actually seen a little bit of a bounce back in April .

Speaker Change: But just given the broader economic environment, we felt like it made sense to display expectations even though we are continuing to see some level of choppiness month to month.

The End

Speaker Change: Any change on the supply side? That's it for me. Thanks, yes.

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Curtis Nagle with Bank of America, please go ahead.

Curtis Nagle: Sure, maybe I'll just follow up on that a little bit. Maybe Stan, could you extrapolate on that comment that? I'm going to tell you like Macklin's certainty is impacting...

Speaker Change: When Red Holders go to market, are you actually seeing artists pull back or maybe delay plan tours or did I maybe misinterpret that comment?

Stan Chia: Now, hey Curtis, yeah, you look, I think no surprise, not our industry alone, but certainly across multiple consumer-facing segments, I think there is a lot of volatility in our industry and when you look through.

Stan Chia: I think even others who participate, there's probably been you know what we see as a seasonal

Low in terms of what we've seen come to market.

Stan Chia: That being said, I think April is, I think, live nation called out certainly.

and early period of...

Stan Chia: Stronger on sale, but outside of that I would say I think we've seen I think a d'arth of what we would normally expect during this period. So while still early in the quarter, certainly enough volatility that it could be a multitude of factors that are impacting it. [inaudible]

Speaker Change: Okay, got it. And then just maybe one for you Larry, just in terms of take rate expectations to those change, right? I think what we're 15 and a half to 16 now, I thought maybe was going to be a little bit higher for the rest of the year, but again, maybe I misinterpreted.

Just any clarification, that would be great. Thank you very much.

Speaker Change: Yeah, I think that we zoom out a little bit, you know, went way back to early 24. We had said it's like 15 and a half percent or higher, 24, you know, as we were optimizing unit economics, we came.

Speaker Change: Above that level, but I think in prior calls alluded to, you know, perhaps we overshot the mark a little bit so kind of trip that down to

Speaker Change: that original 15.5% or higher level as a reasonable guidance level, he will continue to be.

Speaker Change: Opportunistically looking to move levers where we see opportunities up or down. But I think the net was when we were getting into that 17th separate age, I think we were probably over prioritized and take real relative to volume.

Okay, understood. Thank you.

Thank you.

[inaudible]

Thomas Forte: Our next question comes from Thomas Forte with Maxim Group. Please go ahead.

Great things, so.

Thomas Forte: You compare what you're seeing in concerts versus sporting events versus theater and comedy.

James

Yeah, maybe start with that.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Industry, level of volume, and then you can move to...

our performance.

Thomas Forte: Within that, you know, the concert landscape has been particularly volatile in terms of you're a rear-bind trend, I think we alluded that.

Thomas Forte: January being a double digits, Marching it up down double digits, April back up double digits and so I think you have in concerts.

Thomas Forte: That continued issue where when you look on monthly basis.

Thomas Forte: This is the timing or event mix of which on-fails happen to fall in which month can lead you to a dangerous conclusion if you take the last month and assume that trend continues indefinitely.

Blast up slightly year-to-date.

Sports has been down a bit at the industry level.

Thomas Forte: Yeah, there were some tough counts where I was very out of the need to come with the new college [inaudible]

Thomas Forte: Tough Super Bowl, we had Copa America last year, we had the Payton Park of Back last year.

Thomas Forte: We'll have a tough world series coming up later in the year, so I would expect that sports growth will lag the rest of the industry and then theater has been quite strong at the industry level, both sort by a couple pretty meaningful comedians.

Thomas Forte: Tours, see a really nice girl with the knack category, folks like Shane Billis and the like. Our performance relative to the industry I think has been broadly similar.

Thomas Forte: It may be we slightly under-indexed on the theater out performance but across words and the concert pretty, pretty consistent, well-tipped performance is underlying in the children.

[inaudible]

Speaker Change: Great, thanks, Larry. For my follow-up, I know you're suspending guidance for a full year, but can you give your current high-level thoughts on...

Speaker Change: Cash Conversion at EBITDA, and then what your current thoughts are on capo allocation, buying back shares.

Strategic M&A, Investing in the Business

Yeah, I think as you die, die.

Speaker Change: Drift's Lower Relative Expectations this year is DOE Drift's Lower Relative to Original Expectations.

Speaker Change: You'll have, unfortunately, that dual effect of continued pressure on our flow and thus work in capital contribution, which as we talked about in a growing environment is a source, but when you're offering organic declines that we continue to see, it becomes the youth.

the amount of cash that comes out the bottom.

Speaker Change: Get your press as well. So having sat sitting here today with the negative cash outflows that we saw on Q1, I think good.

Speaker Change: of prudent calculation for our catch generation without being fairly limited on a full-year basis.

Speaker Change: It's certainly well below what we in, expected coming into the quarter.

Speaker Change: and then, in terms of the capital allocation, the added continue to be...

Holy Weir of...

Speaker Change: Our valuation and multiple interjectories, so high bar, the faith elites for M&A.

Speaker Change: and then we continue to have cash flexibility to make the right investment operationally.

Speaker Change: and subject to our view on evaluation of the share price, we'll continue to consider and pursue share first with it if it makes up a lot of sense.

Great. Thanks Larry. Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Maria Ripps with Canacord. Please go ahead.

Maria Rips: Good morning and thanks for picking my questions. Can you maybe talk about expectations around your market share dynamics versus flat-to-down industry volumes for the year and could we actually see June be sort of returning to growth by the end of the year?

The End The End

[inaudible]

Speaker Change: Yeah, I think if you sort of map a flatish industry in Q1 against our...

G-O-V-V down 20, you can get.

Chair proxy for share impact, and I think that...

Speaker Change: Sorry, we will start to laugh some easier comms as we suffered additional chair pressure in the second half of last year we have some

Speaker Change: Nice pride to label wins but I think at this point you know assuming a Q2 trajectory that's broadly in line with Q1 is prudent.

and while I certainly anticipate the second half looking better? [inaudible]

Speaker Change: With what we've seen to date, I'd be hesitant to forecast a reversion to growth.

James

Yes!

Speaker Change: and I think we'll have to continue to be dynamic, frankly, the pressures that we've seen play out year-to-date have come in.

Well above what we had anticipated coming into the year.

Speaker Change: and so it continues to be a fluid exercise, but yeah, it's continuing to.

actively manage the trade-off of marketing efficiency.

Speaker Change: and how much marketing spend to balance profitability and volume. Obviously, we're already in a tough volume position, so the end dollar of marketing that you pull back while maybe be the dog free to go further pressure volume and share.

Speaker Change: It's strong tight so we're continuing to look everywhere we can for efficiency to retain as much as possible, but it's a night by at the moment.

Audit, thank you, Larry.

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Cameron Manson-Perone with Morton Stanley, please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Thank you. You mentioned still being excited about growing the TAM. I was wondering if you could elaborate just on, you know, I know I realize it's early, but...

Speaker Change: You know, any additional update in terms of, you know, your international efforts and what's progressing there, any early learnings.

Speaker Change: and then on the performance marketing front, I was just wondering if you could elaborate on or give us some additional color on how your participation in performance marketing has evolved to where it stands today. How much are you?

Speaker Change: How would you characterize your level of activity or spend there today relative to a year ago, two years ago? It would be helpful. Thanks.

Speaker Change: Yeah, hey, Cameron, I'll take the first one, I think on-

Speaker Change: International. I think we remain pretty pleased with the early signs, while as you said, Nathan, I think our efforts continue to be really focused on building up, you know, scale across the multiple dimensions of the marketplace, be that supply, demand, and spinning up, you know, our infrastructure and technology across those spaces.

Speaker Change: but early reads have been pretty positive and we continue to be excited about expanding that global reach and that time as well.

Speaker Change: On the, you know, I think marketing side, as you think about that, I think we continue, that continues to be a large channel for us. So I say proportionately, we probably haven't seen.

A Large Difference in Mix

Speaker Change: However, I think we continue to invest in diversifying that, being aware of, I would say, various components of the changes in that channel as we alluded to in the earnings.

Speaker Change: component, and then building out, I think, the components of our platform that drive, you know, stickiness within, that's certainly where we're focused for the long term.

Got it. That's helpful. Thank you

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Andrew Mark with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Speaker Change: Hi, thanks for taking my questions. You were pretty clear on a lot of the dynamics affecting order volume and the things going on there, but wanted to think about the AOS variable given that there's presumably a macro headwind, but you're also entering a period of easier comes once you lap the Vegas dot com and the wave dash impacts. Thank you.

The End of The End

Speaker Change: The answer in the first quarter, we saw our average order size hang in there and be...

What happened?

Speaker Change: Interestingly, industry average, order size of now a few points. So, so we, uh,

Speaker Change: He's slightly higher than industry on, on overall price point.

Speaker Change: You know, hard looking into the balance of the year to have.

Speaker Change: A precise view. You know, I do think we are likely facing a better concert environment in terms of line-up and supply than we were last year.

Speaker Change: and at least out of today a lesser consumer environment and sort of net those two together is going to be.

Speaker Change: You know, it's hard to say with precision, but I think at the moment I would say flat seems like it's good to get to anything [inaudible]

Speaker Change: I appreciate that. And then to explain another marketing question, I guess, has there been, or could there really be any response to maybe some value-based messaging like around the savings provided by the loyalty program? Could that help in any meaningful way or is it just the case where sometimes people get economically pressured and they say, you know, no amount of loyalty discount will help me convince me to buy tickets? [inaudible]

[inaudible]

Speaker Change: Yeah, we've, I'd say we've pretty consistently seen pricing impact purchase behavior. You know, we really haven't lived through a...

Bye!

Thank you.

Substantial or persistent? [inaudible]

Speaker Change: Period of consumer softness, other than COVID, which I think was exceptional in a lot of ways where I could say it was actually quantified.

Speaker Change: But we've always seen that there is the consumer response to value-proc [inaudible]

Speaker Change: And so if you're seeing it elsewhere in consumer behavior, it's a reasonable hypothesis that the loyalty program to resonate a bit more, I think our task continues to be driving more awareness of that loyalty program. I folks that have it, we see good behavior shift.

Speaker Change: But we indeed continue to make folks aware and have them appreciate and understand how housing is getting the value.

difference really is [inaudible]

Excellent. Thank you.

Thank you.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Dan Kurnos with the Benchmark Company. Please go ahead.

Dan Kernos: Yeah, thanks. Good morning. Maybe a few, I guess. Stan, I don't think we've addressed some of the regulatory stuff. Whether it's the Trump executive order or the ticket act with the concierge component in it, so maybe start there and just give your thoughts on either impact to the industry or how you view that play to hope. [inaudible]

Yeah, hey, then. [inaudible]

Dan Kernos: Yeah, I think we are, and have always been, I think, really supportive of all the regulation, you know, that is targeted at providing transparency for consumers in the industry, you know, I think.

Dan Kernos: One, it's fundamentally a tenant that we believe in, and two, perhaps more on the competitive side. We believe that our leaner cost structure as well as pricing for consumers, generally tends to always be lower than the competitive set. So I think whether it is...

Dan Kernos: The Reason Executive Order, the various acts that are looking at it, or the FTCs.

Dan Kernos: Order that coming into play. All are really focused on price transparency and we are quite supportive of all of that and are looking forward to a level playing field as it pertains to transparency and price to consumers.

John

Got it, that makes sense. And then…

Not to sort of...

Speaker Change: You know, go on with this too much. But just in terms of the native delta between the primary and secondary markets, you know, live nations demand comments were a little bit more upbeat. I hear you, particularly Larry on the supply challenges. Like we've seen that in the marketplace.

Speaker Change: But, you know, ticket pricing being higher in the secondary market. I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much you guys are concerned about [inaudible]

Speaker Change: You know, the consumer relative to it being more of a competitive issue and if the higher secondary ticket pricing, you know, general relative to primary has a is playing a factor on your view on the demand equation.

The End

Speaker Change: Yeah, I mean, I certainly characterize our main challenge at the moment as share. I think we continue to believe the overall industry trajectory is

Speaker Change: Robust, it continues to prove resilient relative to other consumer facing categories. I think we continue to believe that there's healthy growth over a multi-year period.

Speaker Change: specific to the Oxford's Live Nation commentary. You know, I think that probably has followed more under the...

Speaker Change: You know, it's like, it's like stylistic difference, wherever we look at things we see, fully come out, I think we're to probably a bit more.

Speaker Change: Captain and I think again, they might know a little more than we do on what's coming to the balance of the year.

Speaker Change: But from what we've seen, it's a fine line. I don't want to suggest otherwise. But given what we saw February in March,

Speaker Change: I think, you know, we see a couple consecutive months of softness. I'll be as buttressed by strength on either side of it with the broader uncertainty. I think just we wanted to frame that.

Speaker Change: You got it, super helpful. And just lastly on the marketing, which a lot of people have touched on, but I guess Stan or Larry, in terms of mix like socials having kind of a moment right now United is a huge win for you guys. Obviously you guys have been really good with the partnership side.

Speaker Change: Had a maybe a momentary tailwind but is going to probably revert to the mean in the back half of the year.

Speaker Change: Yeah, thanks for that Dan, I think it's actually a really astute point.

Speaker Change: You know, as you see our focus on partnerships, a lot of, you know, our leverage of the distribution platform that we have has been on

Speaker Change: being able to diversify our volumetric mix away from, I would say, competitively pressured marketing channels. So with deals like United, we remain very excited about the perspective of partnering with a brand that has 100 million plus loyalty users in an accretive manner that is independent of the marketing pressure. We continue to focus on finding deals like that. We're also will have cross-branded opportunities to drive a halo into the Vivid Seats platform. And then we need to think that.

you can find out more.

Speaker Change: or more, I would say, a creative value out of that as we invest.

Got it. Thanks for bearing with me guys. Appreciate it.

Bill.

Speaker Change: Our next question comes from Ralph Schackart with William Blair. Please go ahead.

Ralph Shackert: Martin, thanks for taking the question. Just on the marketing change that you called out and Google makes changes from time to time, I'm sure you're going to work through them historically. But maybe if you sort of frame the order of magnitude of this change versus what you've seen historically in just some sense from your perspective, the work around or how long you and or the industry will be able to work through this change as well. Thank you.

Wow.

Ralph Shackert: Yeah, I think a little bit of a dangerous batter.

Ralph Shackert: Topic, just because it is still a lot of black box and some magic that it's hard to know what precision what's happening.

I would say this change...

Ralph Shackert: It's best we can tell that we're not universally ruled out, but it did hit our industry and we saw it.

Ralph Shackert: to realize that it was attacking everyone universally. And so everyone saw a kind of correlated almost to the day erosion in efficiency that persisted for a few weeks, ultimately, I think

Confirmed.

Ralph Shackert: I know how does this compare to other changes they've made, hard part to speak precisely on that but you know it's a little bit like pylon on right when you're already a hyper competitive performance environment.

VF folks are trying to...

You know, effectively make it difficult for others to compete.

Ralph Shackert: What are you later on, you know, Black Brock, Albert, and the changes on top of it, it just, it's helped.

it is

Ralph Shackert: Paul footprint, performance marketing footprint, continuing to move towards Stella. Is that because of...

Ralph Shackert: efficiency that they are extracting and realizing is that because they continue to lean higher on spend and are accepting

Ralph Shackert: in more volume for lower profit, or is there an incremental change in the Google algorithm?

Ralph Shackert: where they're rewarding different big-type 50-haters relative to prior history. And it'll take a little more time for us to equate across those three incremental variables beyond the specific change that I would call board like a glitch in February .

Tom, that's all for thanks, Eric.

Thank you. Bye.

Q1 2025 Vivid Seats Inc Earnings Call

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