Q1 2025 Fuel Tech Inc Earnings Call
Starting the conference. Please press star zero on your telephone keypad.
As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Speaker Change: I would now like to turn the conference over to your host Devin Sullivan managing director of the equity group. Please go ahead.
Vincent Arnone: So on an overall basis, there are probably some puts and takes, but I'm pleased with where we sit today. And I'm not seeing any decrement in business activity with some of the uncertainties in the marketplace, at least as of today.
Speaker Change: Thank you Melissa and good morning, everyone and thank you for joining us today for fuel Tech's 2025 first quarter financial results Conference call yesterday. After the close we issued a press release, a copy of which is available at the Companys website, Www Dot FTE K dot com.
Amit Dayal: I'm just going to thank you for that.
Amit Dayal: And then with respect to the data center opportunity, any names you can share, who you may be partnering with, you know, to, you know, make inroads with this developing market? The reason I'm asking is, you know, if there are, you know, names that the street is sort of aware of that are already active, you know, just trying to get a sense of if you get designed into any of these deployments and does that help you scale the opportunities faster?
Speaker Change: Our speakers for today will be Vince Arnone, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Ellen All Brexit, the company's Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker Change: After prepared remarks, we will open the call for questions from our analysts and investors.
Speaker Change: Greetings and welcome to the Fuel Tech 2025 First Quarter Financial Results Conference call and webcast. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: Before turning things over to Vince I'd like to remind everyone that matters discussed on this call except for historical information are forward looking statements as defined in section 20 <unk>.
Speaker Change: Of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended which are made pursuant to the safe Harbor provisions of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1095 and reflect fuel Tech's current expectations regarding future growth results of operations cash flows performance and business prospects and opportunities as well as assumptions made by and information.
Vincent Arnone: Yes, so to your first question, I really can't name specific names, but what I'll tell you is that we're working with OEM suppliers of gas turbines and engines. We're also working in support of data centers that are being built out by some of the largest tech companies of the marketplace. So, without saying specific names, we are working with that group of entities, if you will.
Speaker Change: <unk> currently available to our company's management.
Speaker Change: Fuel Tech has tried to identify forward looking statements by using words, such as anticipate believe plan expect estimate intend will and similar expressions, but those words are not the exclusive means of identifying forward looking statements. These statements are based on information currently available to fuel tech and are subject to various risks uncertainties and other factors.
Vincent Arnone: And then, secondarily, what we have been doing is, as we've been watching this evolve, is looking to come up with specific designs for specific power generating turbines or engines that we would indeed look to scale. Because in most cases, the sites that we're looking at are going to be multiples of units and not just one-off units for a gas turbine or engine. It may be 5, it may be 10, it may be 20, it may be more. And so, to the extent that we can get close to finalizing those designs and be ready to go once we have the opportunity coming our way, that just bodes well for Fuel Tech.
Speaker Change: Including but not limited to those discussed in fuel Tech's annual report on Form 10-K in item one under the caption of risk factors and subsequent filings under the Securities Exchange Act of $19 34 as amended.
Speaker Change: Could cause fuel tech's actual growth results of operations financial condition cash flows performance business prospects and opportunities to differ materially materially from those expressed in or implied by these statements fuel tech undertakes no obligation to update such factors or to publicly announce the results of any forward looking statements contained herein to reflect.
Speaker Change: Future events developments or changed circumstances or for any other reason.
Vincent Arnone: And it enables us to work in a proactive way with our supply chain as well.
Speaker Change: Investors are cautioned that all forward looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, including those detailed in the company's filings with the SEC.
Amit Dayal: How big is that pipeline, Vince? Any color on, is it still early to maybe give any numbers, but just curious, you know, how big that opportunity is for you right now? Yeah, the numbers can get pretty large, Amit. I mean, if you're talking a multiple of 20 units, and if you're to call it the one unit cost can be in the $1 to $2 million range, you can do the math from there. So the opportunities can get to start to become pretty large in nature, which is why we are excited. And again, we're very, very hopeful that we'll see one or more of these contract awards hopefully look to come our way as we move towards the remainder of 2025.
Speaker Change: So with that said I'd now like to turn the call over to Vince Arnone CEO of fuel Tech Vince. Please go ahead.
Vince Arnone: Thank you Devin.
Speaker Change: Good morning.
Speaker Change: I'd like to thank everyone for joining us on the call today.
Speaker Change: On our March conference call, we expressed encouragement with our near term outlook for business development opportunities.
Speaker Change: I am pleased to report that our first quarter contract booking activity met our expectations with.
Speaker Change: With $5 6 million in bookings announced to date and we had the best first quarter performance for our fuel Chem business segment and more than 10 years.
Speaker Change: We believe that 2025 will be a year of growth for our company.
Vincent Arnone: There's a lot of activity, and there's a lot of parties involved as well. So we're trying to well position ourselves with those folks that we think are going to be solid, reliable players in those markets.
Speaker Change: Revenues for the first quarter of 2025 rose, 29% from the prior year period, primarily driven by the aforementioned robust performance from our fuel Chem business segment.
Speaker Change: For the quarter versus prior year, we expanded our gross margins narrowed our operating loss and significantly increased our APC project backlog to the highest level in three years.
Amit Dayal: And so just last one for me with respect to the Mexico opportunity. Is there any particular catalyst or some kind of funding that needs to become available, you know, for that opportunity to, for you to potentially begin receiving orders, et cetera? Yeah, what really needs to happen, Amit, is the Mexican government needs to allow funds to be spent on systems like ours to go ahead and start remediation of some of their pollution issues. It's become really serious around some of their major cities. You see it in the news quite often down there.
Speaker Change: Further we maintained a strong financial position with cash cash equivalents and investments of approximately $31 million at quarter end and no long term debt.
Speaker Change: On an overall basis, we are encouraged by the global landscape of business development activities that we are seeing.
Speaker Change: Driven by continued expansion in manufacturing in many sectors.
Speaker Change: And by the growing demand for power generation as a whole, which is being driven by several reasons.
Amit Dayal: And we're just hoping at some point in time, and again, given the platform that was run on by the president, we are hoping that their environmental needs will become a little more top of mind not too far into the future here. Thank you, Vince. That's all I have. You're welcome. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you'd like to join the question queue, please press star 1 on your telephone.
Speaker Change: Notably the advancement of artificial intelligence.
Speaker Change: Fuel techs portfolio of emissions control solutions has proven to be an integral part of infrastructure build out in the U S and around the world.
Speaker Change: Regardless of fuel source.
Speaker Change: Our technologies are used to reduce harmful gases, including nitrogen oxide and sulfur oxides.
Speaker Change: As well as particulate emissions from combustion sources, while enhancing operating efficiencies.
Marc silk: Our next question comes from the line of Marc Silk with Silk Investment Advisors. Hey Vince, thanks for taking my questions. My pleasure, Marc. How are you? Doing well, thanks.
Speaker Change: And allowing industrial and utility customers.
Speaker Change: To remain compliant with state and federal and country specific regulations.
Speaker Change: Investment in water quality and water infrastructure is also growing and we believe that our dissolved gas infusion technology offers a compelling solution for Ya municipal and industrial end markets.
Marc silk: So, the data center opportunity, obviously with this administration, there's no urgency for them to do things environmentally friendly, but the conversations you have, are they thinking beyond this administration? That's kind of why you feel that there's an opportunity. Yeah, so what we're seeing with some of the data center opportunities that we are looking to address is, in some cases, the power generation is primary power. In some cases, it's backup power. If it's primary power, it's an undercurrent environmental regulations, those units are going to require pollution control technology as base loaded generation. If it's backup power, it gets to be a little bit more specific in nature in terms of the expectation for how long or how many hours a year those backup units will be asked to run.
We have a product demonstration that will commence later this month and are in discussions with customers representing multiple end markets that can benefit from our water technology.
Speaker Change: Now, let's talk about our results for the quarter.
Speaker Change: Our fuel Chem business segment began 2025 with the best first quarter performance that we've seen in 10 years with revenues rising 92% compared to last year's first quarter.
Speaker Change: This was the result of the returned to full operation of our base accounts and the incremental contribution from the new commercial account that we added in the second quarter of 2024.
Speaker Change: We continue to pursue additional fuel chem opportunities, both domestically and internationally and we currently expect that our new demonstration of our <unk> targeted in furnace injection technology.
Vincent Arnone: So, in some cases, backup power may not require pollution control technologies. In other cases, it will.
Speaker Change: It is likely to commence late in the third quarter of this year at a coal fired unit in the Midwest.
Vincent Arnone: So, again, as I said, as part of my script, the opportunities that we're looking at today aren't necessarily driven by any new regulation, but it's also making the assumption that what's in place today as EPA regulation does stay in place, and it's not going to be removed completely.
Speaker Change: With respect to international fuel fuel Chem opportunities, we remain in discussions with our partner in Mexico to expand the provision of our chemical technology in that country.
Speaker Change: Based on current conversations with our partners in Mexico. It is still our understanding that the newly elected government is targeting the implementation of environmental policy aimed at the reduction of pollutants that cause climate change.
Vincent Arnone: Okay, and then switching gears to the DGI. So you're hiring other entities to help you sell this. Can you kind of give us a little color on that and what they kind of laid out for you as far as Yeah, so it was always our expectation when we looked to address additional market channels for DGI that we would need some expertise in order to obtain access to those channels. And as Fuel Tech, historically, we have worked with manufacturing representatives both for our APC business and for our fuel chem business as well. So for water, we are actually doing the same thing.
Speaker Change: As Mexico is planning to use the heavy fuel oil generated from their oil refining operations.
Speaker Change: As fuel for power generation for the near term future. We are hopeful that our fuel Chem program will be an integral part of President Jane Mums plan.
Speaker Change: Now, let's turn to our APC business segment.
Speaker Change: APC revenues declined from last year's first quarter due primarily to the timing of project execution.
Speaker Change: We have been encouraged by the cadence of New contract Awards and are currently addressing the best portfolio of APC business opportunities that we have seen in several years, both domestically and internationally.
Vincent Arnone: We needed to come to a point whereby we were able to speak with confidence with some of these companies. So they felt as though they were representing a technology and investing their time and effort in looking to put a good technology into end markets. So it's taken us a while to get to that point.
Speaker Change: We generated $5 6 million APC orders during the first quarter, which drove a 66% increase in our backlog at March 31, 2025% from December 31 2024.
Vincent Arnone: But as I mentioned in my script, we signed up two already. That just happened recently. And they're for different end markets and or geographies. But we'd probably look to put in place ultimately several more as well. Again, to help us get product into end markets.
Speaker Change: We are continuing to pursue additional new awards, driven by industrial expansion globally and by state specific regulatory requirements in the U S and.
Speaker Change: And we are also following incremental opportunities for the municipal solid waste or MSW market.
Speaker Change: Have a good probability of coming our way later this year.
Marc silk: And last question, you recently went to a show for the DGI.
Speaker Change: As of today, we currently expect to close an additional $3 million to $5 million in new contract awards by the end of the current second quarter.
Vincent Arnone: Can you give us any kind of color or what people are saying about your product that's in potential for? You know, you grow up in that area. Yeah, so we went to the Aquaculture America show. It was extreme. The DGI was extremely well received. We obtained multiple leads for opportunities in again, in the aquaculture marketplace. And there's one specific lead that we issued a proposal for here within this past week and a half. So I it was the technology was well received. We were perceived as being innovative for for that particular end marketplace. And we need to find those folks that are willing to to to take a chance at working with a new innovation for for meeting that market applications need for oxygenation.
Speaker Change: As mentioned previously the artificial intelligent intelligence boom has generated increasing demand for data centers.
Speaker Change: This growth will require a significant increase in energy over the next several years.
Speaker Change: To address the necessary emissions control requirements of these facilities we.
Speaker Change: We are utilizing our SCR and ultra technologies.
Speaker Change: Participate in larger domestic contract opportunities.
Speaker Change: We are working with multiple parties involved in the development of data centers.
Speaker Change: And have submitted budgetary bids in pursuit of opportunities in this market.
Speaker Change: Regarding the regulatory front.
Speaker Change: As we mentioned on our conference call in March we.
Speaker Change: We are not expecting any specific tailwind that would come from the implementation of new regulation.
Vincent Arnone: But it was the DGI was very well received.
Speaker Change: As the new administration is not likely to implement regulations that were working through the process of approval and finalization when the new term commenced.
Marc silk: Great. Good start to the new year and continue to.
Marc silk: Thank you very much, Marc. Appreciate it.
Speaker Change: It is important to note that the opportunities that we are following today are not contingent on the implementation of any new regulations.
Operator: Thank you.
William Bremer: Our next question comes from the line of William Bremer with Vanquish Capital Partners. Hey, good morning, Bill. How are you? Good, good, thank you. Outside.
Speaker Change: We are continuing to monitor progress of the Epa's rule for the large municipal waste combustor units, which is independent of the good neighbor rule.
William Bremer: Give us an update on your exposure to possibly NatGas development. From what perspective when you say net gas development? Given the build-out and the supply of gas for electrical generation needs via data centers, etc., outside of the data center market and the facilities, where do we have contact? Yeah, today, we would find opportunities for natural gas based systems with with manufacturing expansion. projects that we've been doing with certain end markets and industries that end up using natural gas as their choice of fuel. But that would be the primary other avenue that we'd be focusing on for utilization of natural gas.
Speaker Change: This rule reduces the nitrogen oxide emissions requirements for large and WC units.
Speaker Change: Fuel Tech has had a long history of assisting this industry and meeting its compliance requirements and we've had discussions with customers in this segment to support their compliance planning.
Speaker Change: The final rule has been delayed by EPA until December of 2025 with compliance deadlines expected three years from the date of issue.
Speaker Change: That being said there are some specific states that are currently requiring lower nox emissions that are consistent with the proposed <unk> rule and we are actively pursuing those opportunities today.
Speaker Change: For TGI.
Speaker Change: We have deployed our equipment to the site of a fish hatchery in the Western U S and our demonstration which is expected to last nine to 12 months, we will commence before the end of this month.
Speaker Change: This demonstration will have defined test protocols to evaluate the benefits of the dji technology.
William Bremer: Right, no, I knew we had exposure there. I just thank you for the update.
William Bremer: And we do have, we do have, just one more comment to make. We do have some exposure for natural gas applications for utility units as well, not necessarily for this country, but for other countries as well, as it relates to some of our technologies. Right. Thank you for the refresher on that. You're welcome.
Speaker Change: Resulting from the supply of consistent and precise levels of dissolved oxygen and the raising of game fish in a controlled environment.
Speaker Change: In addition to this demonstration discussions are progressing with the municipal wastewater treatment facility in the southeastern United States and we are pursuing other.
Speaker Change: And markets of interest for <unk>, including pulp and paper food.
Speaker Change: That being said there are some specific states that are currently requiring lowering nox emissions that are consistent with the proposed <unk> rule and we are actively pursuing those opportunities today.
William Bremer: And given the data center opportunities, and I know this is a difficult question to answer, but can you provide a range that if we're... What's the low end? What's the, I mean, we're talking multiple millions here per data center content, isn't that correct? That is correct. As I just mentioned in regarding one of the other questions, we're looking at, on a per unit basis, it could be a million to two million dollars per unit. And again, we're talking multiples of units at a site. So yes, the numbers get, they get very large.
Speaker Change: <unk> beverage chemical and petrochemical and horticulture.
Speaker Change: We continue to receive inquiries regarding pgi from potential customers in multiple end markets and are hopeful that we can generate our first commercial revenues in 2025.
Speaker Change: For D G I.
Speaker Change: We have deployed our equipment to the site of a fish hatchery in the Western U S and our demonstration which is expected to last nine to 12 months, we will commence before the end of this month.
Speaker Change: Additionally, we have recently executed sales representative agreements with two companies that will focus their efforts on helping us to bring DDI into end markets and we expect to add additional represents.
Speaker Change: This demonstration will have defined test protocols to evaluate the benefits of the dji technology.
Speaker Change: Representatives of imminently.
Speaker Change: Resulting from the supply of consistent and precise levels of dissolved oxygen and the raising of Gainesville in a controlled environment.
Speaker Change: Based on our effective backlog.
Speaker Change: Recent contract awards.
Speaker Change: The APC business development activities that we are pursuing and our previously noted expectations for fuel Chem, we are maintaining our revenue guidance for 2025, we continue.
William Bremer: and the fact that you're fabulous. I'm assuming that's an advantage to you in terms of the production and the timing to get the systems there. I'm hoping that you're making that known to your potential entities when you're bidding for these. Yes, as part of our discussions with the companies that we're working with, heavy, heavy, heavy focus on how we manage supply chain as part of the execution process. How we manage the risk for some of the, call it, other market forces that are in place today, whether it be tariff-oriented or otherwise. How do we control those risks as we look to work through a project execution cycle?
Speaker Change: In addition to this demonstration discussions are progressing with the municipal wastewater treatment facility in the southeastern United States and we are pursuing other end.
Speaker Change: To expect that total revenues for 2025 will approximate $30 million with both business segments exceeding their performance in 2024.
Speaker Change: And markets of interest for dji, including pulp and paper food and beverage chemical and petrochemical and horticulture.
Speaker Change: This base case outlook excludes excludes any material revenue contributions from DDI any significant contributions to APC from new regulations or from large data Center data Center contract awards and any impact from new material business development activities for fuel Chem.
Speaker Change: We continue to receive inquiries regarding UGI from potential customers in multiple end markets and are hopeful that we can generate our first commercial revenues in 2025.
Speaker Change: Additionally, we have recently executed sales representative agreements with two companies that will focus their efforts on helping us to bring D. G. I into end markets and we expect to add additional referees.
Speaker Change: In closing.
Speaker Change: We are very encouraged by the recent developments at APC that continued growth potential from our fuel Chem segment and the opportunities we are pursuing a DTI.
Speaker Change: Presented as a imminently.
William Bremer: Particularly something that could be of a larger magnitude. So those are discussions that we are having and we're prepared to have with others.
Speaker Change: Based on our effective backlog recent.
Speaker Change: The recent contract awards.
Speaker Change: I want to express my thanks to the fuel Tech team for their continued efforts in support of our strategic goals.
Speaker Change: The APC business development activities that we are pursuing and our previously noted expectations for fuel Chem, we are maintaining our revenue guidance for 2025, we continue.
Speaker Change: I want to thank our shareholders for their continuing interest in and support of our company.
William Bremer: Now on to DGI. looking forward to some consummation here for sure. And this is just a comment.
Speaker Change: You do expect that total revenues for 2025 will approximate $30 million with both business segments exceeding their performance in 2024.
Speaker Change: I also want to let everyone know that we will be presenting at the upcoming Sidoti Microcap Virtual conference, which is being held on May 21, and 'twenty two.
William Bremer: I would welcome hearing Bill Decker, who's heading this program alongside yourself, maybe on a future call, just to give us more of a granular update on what he's seeing and the technology. I think it would be a beneficial sharing of information to all the shareholders. Okay, point noted, Bill. Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: This base case outlook excludes it excludes any material revenue contributions from DTI any significant contributions to APC from new regulations or from large data Center data Center contract awards and any impact from new material business development activities for fuel Chem.
Speaker Change: I invite everyone to listen to our presentation.
Speaker Change: We will notify everyone of our specific presentation presentation day in time via press release within these next couple of business days.
Speaker Change: Now I'd like to turn the call over to Ellen for her comments on our financial results. Ellen. Please go ahead.
Speaker Change: In closing.
William Bremer: And finally, um... trading below cash per share. You know, at what point, given your visibility and confidence... you realize and the board seems to, you know, feel that stock buyback at this level is probably the best return of capital. for the shareholders as well as the company. We actually just recently had a discussion at our most recent board meeting here earlier this month. It's something that we talk about on a recurring basis. As we sit here today, Bill, we believe we have enough. potential positive momentum to be a driver for the stock price, that that would be the better outcome than using our precious cash balance at this point in time to enable the same thing.
Speaker Change: We are very encouraged by the recent developments at APC. The continued growth potential from our fuel Chem segment and the opportunities we are pursuing a DTI.
Thank you Vince and good morning, everyone for.
Ellen: For the quarter consolidated revenues rose, 29% to $6 4 million from $5 million in last year's first quarter, reflecting significant growth in our fuel Chem segment revenue, partially offset by a decrease in APC segment revenue compared to the prior year period.
Speaker Change: I want to express my thanks to the fuel Tech team for their continued efforts in support of our strategic goals.
Speaker Change: And I want to thank our shareholders for their continuing interest in and support of our company.
Ellen: You welcome segment revenue increased by 92% to $5 1 million from $2 6 million in the prior year period and comprise nearly 80% of total revenues for the quarter.
Speaker Change: I also want to let everyone know that we will be presenting at the upcoming Sidoti Microcap Virtual conference, which is being held on May 21, and 'twenty two.
Speaker Change: I invite everyone to listen to our presentation.
Ellen: This was driven by customer accounts, returning to service and as a result of outage completion increased dispatch and sustain and sustained contributions from the new coal fired account added in 2024.
Speaker Change: We will notify everyone of our specific presentation presentation day in time via press release within these next couple of business days.
Speaker Change: Now I'd like to turn the call over to Ellen for her comments on our financial results <unk>. Please go ahead.
Ellen: Conversely, a P.
Ellen: Segment revenue declined to $1 3 million from $2 3 million in last year's first quarter, primarily related to timing of project execution on existing contracts.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Ellen: Thank you Vince and good morning, everyone.
William Bremer: That's our thought process today, not necessarily saying that it would stay that way in the future, but that is our thought process today. Thank you very much. Thank you, Bill. Thank you.
Ellen: For the quarter consolidated revenues rose, 29% to $6 4 million from 5 million in last year's first quarter, reflecting significant growth in our fuel Chem segment revenue, partially offset by a decrease in APC segment revenue compared to the prior year period.
Ellen: Consolidated gross margin for the first quarter rose to 46% of revenues from 41% in last year's first quarter.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen there are no further questions at this time.
Ellen: This improvement reflected the higher proportion of fuel Chem segment revenue during the quarter, which returned to historical margins at 50% from 43% in Q1 of 2024.
Vincent Arnone: I'll turn the floor back to Mr. Arnone for any final Thank you, operator. Thanks for everyone for for joining today. Thanks for your patience with my speaking voice. I have a little bit of a cold this morning.
Ellen: Fuel Chem segment revenue increased by 92% to $5 1 million from $2 6 million in the prior year period and comprised nearly 80% of total revenues for the quarter.
Ellen: Partially offset by a decline in APC margin to 33% of segment revenues from 38% in the prior year period.
Vincent Arnone: If you have the opportunity to listen into the Codoti Microcap Virtual Conference, please join us for my presentation. You're you're welcome. And then I just want to thank again the Fuel Tech team for all of their support and all the hard work they do day in, day out in support of our company. And again, thanks to our shareholder base as well. We're doing everything that we can to look to deliver favorable shareholder value.
Ellen: This was driven by customer accounts returning to service as a result of outage completion increased dispatch and sustain and sustained contributions from the new coal fired account added in 2024.
Ellen: The decline in APC gross margin was driven by changes in product and project mix.
Ellen: As a reminder, the APC segment contains revenues from capital projects and ancillary revenues for items, such as post contractual parking services.
Ellen: Conversely, APC segment revenue declined to $1 3 million from $2 3 million in last year's first quarter, primarily related to timing of project execution on existing contracts.
Ellen: Ancillary.
Ellen: Revenues maintain a higher margin profile and will offset fluctuating project revenue margin, which are recognized over time based on project completion.
Operator: Thanks everyone and have a good day. Thank you.
Ellen: Consolidated gross margin for the first quarter rose to 46% of revenues from 41% in last year's first quarter.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.
Ellen: Duration of APC project completion, typically ranges from 8% to 24 months with engineering and production costs dependent on design approval on delivery schedules, which directly impact timing of revenue recognition.
Ellen: This improvement reflected the higher proportion of fuel Chem segment revenue during the quarter, which returned to historical margins at 50% from 43% in Q1 of 2024.
Ellen: As expected APC backlog improved significantly in early 2025 due to the success of business development activities.
Ellen: Partially offset by a decline in APC margin to 33% of segment revenues from 38% in the prior year period.
Ellen: Consolidated APC segment backlog on March 31, 2025, with $10 3 million up from a backlog of $6 2 million at December 31 2024.
Ellen: The decline in APC gross margin was driven by changes in product and project mix.
Ellen: As a reminder, the APC segment contains revenues from capital projects and ancillary revenues for items, such as post contractual parts and services.
Ellen: Backlog at March 31, 2025 included $3 6 million of domestically delivered project backlog and $6 7 million of foreign delivered project backlog compared to $1 $9 million of domestic delivered project backlog and $4 3 million of foreign deliver project backlog at December 31st.
Ellen: Ancillary.
Ellen: Revenues maintain a higher margin profile and will offset fluctuating project revenue margin, which are recognized overtime based on project completion.
Ellen: Duration of APC project completion, typically ranges from eight to 24 months with engineering and production cost dependent on design approval on delivery schedules, which directly impact timing of revenue recognition.
Ellen: We expect that approximately $6 9 million of current consolidated backlog will be recognized in the next 12 months.
Ellen: SG&A expenses were flat at $3 3 million for the first quarters of 2025 and 2024.
Ellen: As expected a P C backlog improved significantly in early 2025 due to the success of business development activities.
Ellen: As a percentage of revenue SG&A expenses declined to 52% in Q1 of 2025 from 67% in Q1 of 2024, reflecting the increase in revenue.
Ellen: Consolidated the APC segment backlog on March 31, 2025, with $10 3 million up from a backlog of $6 2 million at December 31 2024.
For 2025, we expect SG&A expenses to increase modestly from prior year.
Ellen: Backlog at March 31, 2025 included $3 6 million of domestically delivered project backlog and $6 7 million of foreign delivered project backlog compared to $1 9 million of domestic delivered project backlog and $4 3 million of foreign deliver project backlog at December 31st.
Ellen: Yeah.
Ellen: Research and development expenses for the first quarter increased to 570000 from 376000 in last year's first quarter due in large part to our continuing investment in water and wastewater treatment technologies, specifically, our dji system.
Ellen: Our investment in DTI will continue throughout 2025, along with expenditures to support our growth initiatives.
Ellen: We expect that approximately $6 9 million of current consolidated backlog will be recognized in the next 12 months.
Ellen: Our operating loss was 952000 compared to an operating loss of $1 7 million last year's first quarter, reflecting the increase in consolidated revenue and improved gross profit.
Ellen: Yeah.
Ellen: SG&A expenses were flat at $3 3 million for the first quarters of 2025 and 2024.
Ellen: As a percentage of revenue SG&A expenses declined to 52% in Q1 of 2025 from 67% in Q1 of 2024, reflecting the increase in revenue.
Ellen: We continue to take advantage of the favorable interest rate environment and as of March 31, 2025, and invested a large portion of our $30 million and held to maturity held to maturity debt securities and money market funds.
Ellen: For 2025, we expect SG&A expenses to increase modestly from prior year.
Ellen: This generated 279000 of interest income in the acute in Q1 of 2025.
Ellen: Yeah.
Ellen: Research and development expenses for the first quarter increased to 570000 from 376000 in last year's first quarter due in large part to our continuing investment in water and wastewater treatment technologies, specifically our D. G I system.
Ellen: Our net loss for the quarter was 739000 or <unk> <unk> per share compared to net income of 281000 or <unk> <unk> per share in the same period, one year ago.
Ellen: Our investment in D. G. I will continue throughout 2025, along with expenditures to support our growth initiatives.
Ellen: The difference in net income.
Ellen: From prior year was mainly due to a onetime other income amount of $1 7 million in last year's first quarter associated with the receipt with the receipt of the ERC the employee retention credit under the cares Act. Excluding this onetime other items net loss for Q1 2024 was one.
Ellen: Our operating loss was 952000 compared to an operating loss of $1 7 million last year's first quarter, reflecting the increase in consolidated revenue and improved gross profit.
Ellen: We continue to take advantage of the favorable interest rate environment and as of March 31, 2025, and invested a large portion of our 30 million and held to maturity held to maturity debt securities and money market funds.
Ellen: One 4 million or <unk> <unk> per share.
Ellen: Adjusted EBITDA loss narrowed to 735000 compared to an adjusted EBITDA loss of $1 5 million in the same period a year ago.
Ellen: This generated 279000 of interest income in the acute in Q1 of 2025.
Ellen: Lastly, moving to the balance sheet, our financial condition remains very strong as of March 31, 2025, we had cash and cash equivalents of $11 8 million and short and long term investments of $19 3 million for a total of $31 2 million.
Ellen: Our net loss for the quarter was 739000 or two cents per share compared to net income of 281000 or one cents per share in the same period, one year ago.
Ellen: The difference in net income.
Ellen: Shares outstanding at quarter end were approximately $30 8 million equating to cash per share of $1 one.
Ellen: From prior year was mainly due to a one time other income amount of $1 7 million in last year's first quarter associated with diversity with the receipt of the E. R. C. The employee retention credit under the cares Act. Excluding this one time other items net loss for Q1 'twenty 'twenty four was one.
Ellen: Working capital was $24 9 million or <unk> 81 per share stockholders equity was $41 4 million or $1 35 per share and the company continues to have no outstanding debt.
Ellen: One 4 million or five cents per share.
Ellen: We remain greatly confident in our ability to maintain a strong financial position and to fund our short and long term growth initiatives.
Ellen: Adjusted EBITDA loss narrowed to 735000 compared to an adjusted EBITDA loss of $1 5 million in the same period a year ago.
Ben: Now I'll turn the call back over to Ben.
Ben: Thanks, very much Alan operator, let's please go ahead and open up the line for questions.
Ellen: Okay.
Ellen: Lastly, moving to the balance sheet, our financial condition remains very strong as of March 31, 2025, we had cash and cash equivalents of $11 8 million and short and long term investments of $19 3 million threat total of $31 2 million.
Speaker Change: Thank you if you'd like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue.
Speaker Change: You May press star two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue for participants using speaker equipment. It may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys.
Ellen: Shares outstanding at quarter end were approximately $30 8 million acquainting to cash per share of a dollar one.
Speaker Change: Our first question comes from the line of Amit Dayal with H C. Wainwright. Please proceed with your question.
Ellen: Working capital was $24 9 million or <unk> 81 per share stockholders equity was $41 4 million or $1 35 per share and the company continues to have no outstanding debt.
Speaker Change: Thank you good morning, everyone.
Speaker Change: Good morning, Thanks of the business it looks like the business overall.
Speaker Change: Pretty.
Speaker Change: Our strong position.
Speaker Change: A little bit from last year.
Ellen: We remain greatly confident in our ability to maintain a strong financial position and to fund our short and long term growth initiatives.
Any color.
Speaker Change: Thank you both.
Speaker Change: The current political environment and it doesn't look like it's slowing down things for you too much.
Ellen: Now I'll turn the call back over to Ben.
Ellen: Okay.
Ellen: Thanks, very much Alan operator, let's please go ahead and open up the line for some questions.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: This.
Speaker Change: A bit on how you're positioned to deal with you know some of these uncertainties in the market right now with respect to all sorts of these regulations.
Ellen: Thank you if you'd like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue.
Speaker Change: And that potentially being implemented.
Speaker Change: Yes at this point in time, Amit I think.
Ellen: You May press star two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue for participants using speaker equipment. It may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys.
Speaker Change: I would say, we're not completely sheltered obviously with with from what's going on in the marketplace today in general, but I will say that.
Speaker Change: Our first question comes from the line of Amit Dayal with H C. Wainwright. Please proceed with your question.
Speaker Change: What's.
Speaker Change: Thank you good morning, everyone.
Speaker Change: Turning with the New administration at this point in time is not deterring us from capturing opportunities that.
Speaker Change: Good morning, I think the business is yeah. It looks like the business overall as you know and a pretty.
Speaker Change: Our strong position.
Speaker Change: That we would normally look to capture historically right.
Speaker Change: Relative to last year.
Speaker Change: We did not have any.
Speaker Change: Any color.
Speaker Change: So both the current political environment and it doesn't look like it's slowing down things for you too much.
Speaker Change: Preconceived ideas that they were going to be new regulation put in place environmentally that would give us a boost.
Speaker Change: That would've been our expectation, perhaps last year, that's not the case today, but the just general business expansion.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: And any update on how you are positioned to deal with you know some of these uncertainties in the market right now with respect to all sorts of these regulations.
Speaker Change: And some of the needs that are driving.
Speaker Change: The growth of our generation.
Speaker Change: That are potentially being implemented.
Speaker Change: They are definitely market drivers for our businesses so from that perspective.
Speaker Change: Yeah at this point in time, Amit I think.
Speaker Change: We find ourselves in a pretty good position as we here today.
Speaker Change: I would say, we're not completely sheltered obviously with with from what's going on in the marketplace today in general, but I will say that.
Speaker Change: Now one more comment I will make is that.
Speaker Change: We have been seeing over these past two to three years.
Speaker Change: Cause of the requirement for.
Speaker Change: What's happening with the New administration at this point in time is not deterring us from capturing opportunities that that we would normally look to capture historically right. We did not have any frequency.
Speaker Change: The increased power generation, we've seen some extension of life of coal fired units.
Speaker Change: And that could continue to bode well for us.
Speaker Change: Because I think we're going to see more extensions of life of coal fired units.
Speaker Change: Preconceived ideas that they were going to be new regulations put in place environmentally that would give us a boost.
Speaker Change: Given just a general demand of very reliable power that we have in this country in other parts of the world. So on an overall basis. There were probably some puts and takes but I am pleased with where we sit today and I am not seeing any any decrement in business activity with some of the uncertainties in the marketplace.
Speaker Change: That would've been our expectation, perhaps last year, that's not the case today, but the just general business expansion.
Speaker Change: And some of the needs that are driving.
Speaker Change: The growth of our generation.
Speaker Change: They are definitely market drivers for our businesses so from that perspective do.
Speaker Change: At least as of today.
Speaker Change: I'm just and thank you for that and then with respect to the data center opportunity.
Speaker Change: We find ourselves in a pretty good position as we here today.
Speaker Change: Any names you can share who you may be partnering with.
Speaker Change: Now one more comment I'll make is that.
Speaker Change: We have been seeing over these past two to three years.
Speaker Change: Making roads.
Speaker Change: Cause of the requirement for.
Speaker Change: With this developing market. The reason I'm asking is you know is there are numerous.
Speaker Change: The increased power generation, we've seen some extension of life of coal fired units.
Speaker Change: The street, just sort of aware of that are already active.
Speaker Change: And that that could continue to bode well for us.
Speaker Change: Just trying to get a sense of if you get designed into these deployments and does that help you scale the opportunity faster.
Speaker Change: Because I think we're going to see more extensions of life of coal fired units.
Speaker Change: Given just a general demand of a very reliable power that we have in this country in other parts of the world. So on an overall basis. There were probably some puts and takes but I'm pleased with where we sit today and I'm not seeing any any decrement in business activity with some of the uncertainties in the marketplace.
Speaker Change: Yes, so to your first question.
Speaker Change: I really can't name specific names, but what I will tell you is that.
Speaker Change: We're working with.
Speaker Change: OEM suppliers of of gas turbines and engines.
Speaker Change: We're also working in support of data centers that are being.
Speaker Change: At least as of today.
Speaker Change: The built out by some of the largest tech companies of.
Speaker Change: I'm just and thank you for that and then with respect to the data center opportunity.
Speaker Change: The marketplace, so without saying specific names, we are working with that that group of entities. If you will and then secondarily. What we have been doing is as we've been watching this evolve is looking to come up with specific designs for specific power.
Speaker Change: Any names you can share who you maybe partnering with you know to make.
Speaker Change: Making roads.
Speaker Change: With this developing market. The reason I'm asking is you know is there are you know.
Speaker Change: Is that.
Speaker Change: The street, just sort of aware of that are already active and I'm.
Speaker Change: I'm just trying to get a sense of if you get designed into any of these deployments and does that help you scale the opportunity faster.
Speaker Change: Generating turbines are engines that we would indeed.
Speaker Change: Look to scale because in most cases the sites that we're looking at are going to be multiples of units and not just one off.
Speaker Change: Yes, so to your first question.
Speaker Change: I really can't name specific names, but what I will tell you is that.
Speaker Change: Units for a gas turbine or engine. It maybe 5% maybe 10, maybe 20% maybe it may be more.
Speaker Change: We're working with.
Speaker Change: Mmm suppliers of of gas turbine engines.
Speaker Change: So to the extent that we can get close to finalizing those designs and be ready to go once we have the opportunity coming our way that just bodes well for for fuel Tech and enables us to work.
Speaker Change: We're also working and supportive data centers that are being.
Speaker Change: <unk> built out by some of the largest tech companies of.
Speaker Change: Of the marketplace, so without saying specific names, we are working with that that group of entities. If you will and then secondarily. What we have been doing is as we've been watching this evolve is looking to come up with specific designs.
Speaker Change: In a proactive way with our supply chain as well.
Speaker Change: Understood.
Speaker Change: How big is that pipeline.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Any color on is it still early to maybe give any.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Just curious how big that opportunity is for you right now.
For specific power generating turbines are engines that we would indeed.
Speaker Change: Yes, the numbers can get pretty large Amit I mean, if youre talking.
Speaker Change: Look to scale because in most cases are the sites that we're looking at are going to be multiples of units and not just one off.
Speaker Change: Multiple of 20 units and if you are to call. It. The one unit costs can be in the $1 million to $2 million range. You can do the math from there so the opportunities can get to start to.
Speaker Change: Units for our gas turbine engine. It may be five it maybe 10, maybe 20 it may be it may be more and so to the extent that we can get close to finalizing those designs and be ready to go once we have the opportunity coming our way that just bodes well for for fuel Tech and enables us to work.
Speaker Change: To become pretty large in nature, which is why we are excited and again, we're very very hopeful that we'll see one or more of these contract awards. So hopefully look to come our way as we move towards the remainder of 2025. There is a lot of activity and there's a lot of parties involved as well so we're trying to well position ourselves.
Speaker Change: In a proactive way with our supply chain as well.
Speaker Change: Understood.
<unk> with those folks that we think are going to be.
Speaker Change: How big is that pipeline.
Speaker Change: Any color on is it still early to maybe give any numbers.
Speaker Change: Solid reliable players in those markets.
On the so just last one for me with respect to the Mexico opportunity.
Speaker Change: I'm curious you know how how big that opportunity is for you.
Speaker Change: Is there any particular catalyst or some kind of funding that needs to become available for that opportunity.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: Yeah. The the the numbers can get pretty large Amit I mean, if youre talking.
Speaker Change: A multiple of 20 units and if your call. It the one unit costs could be in the $1 million to $2 million range. You can do the math from there so the opportunities can get to start.
Speaker Change: Two.
Speaker Change: For you to potentially begin receiving orders et cetera.
Speaker Change: Yes, what really needs to happen Amit as the Mexican government.
Speaker Change: To become pretty large in nature, which is why we are excited and again, where we're very very hopeful that we'll see one or more of these contract awards. So hopefully look to come our way as we move towards the remainder of 2025, there's a lot of activity and there's a lot of parties involved as well. So we're we're trying to well position ourselves.
Speaker Change: <unk> needs to allow funds to be spent.
Speaker Change: On systems like ours to go ahead, and our remediation of some of their pollution issues, it's become really serious around some of their major cities you see it in the news quite often down there and.
Speaker Change: We're just hoping at some point in time and again give it given the platform that was that was run on by the president.
Speaker Change: <unk> with with those folks that we think are going to be a solid reliable players in those markets.
Speaker Change: We are hoping that their environmental needs will become a little more top of mind not too far into the future here.
Speaker Change: And just last one for me with respect to the Mexico opportunity.
Speaker Change: Thank you Vince that's all that are welcome. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Is there any particular catalyst or some kind of funding that needs to become available you know for that opportunity.
Speaker Change: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you'd like to join the question queue. Please press star one on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from the line of Marc Silk with Silk investment Advisors. Please proceed with your question.
Two of them for you to potentially begin receiving orders et cetera.
Amit Dayal: Yeah, well, what really needs to happen Amit as the Mexican government.
Marc silk: Hey, Vince Thanks for taking my questions.
Vince Arnone: My pleasure Mark how are you.
Speaker Change: Needs to allow funds to be spent.
Mark: Doing well thanks.
Marc silk: No.
Marc silk: The data center opportunity, obviously with this administration.
Speaker Change: On systems like ours to go ahead and start remediation of some of their pollution issues, it's become really serious around some of their major cities you see it in the news quite often down there and.
Marc silk: There's no urgency for them to do things environmentally friendly, but the conversations you have or they can be honest administration and thats kind of why.
Speaker Change: We're just hoping at some point in time and again, giving given the platform that was that was run on by the president.
Marc silk: You feel it as an opportunity.
Marc silk: Yes, so what we're seeing with.
Speaker Change: We are hoping that their environmental needs will become a little more top of mind not too far into the future here.
Marc silk: Some of the data center opportunities that we are looking to address is in some cases the power generation is a primary power in some cases its backup power if its primary power.
Speaker Change: Thank you Vince that's all that Youre welcome. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you'd like to join the question queue. Please press star one on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from the line of Marc Silk with Silk investment Advisors. Please proceed with your question.
Marc silk: And under current environmental regulations, those units are going to require pollution control technology.
Marc silk: As as base loaded generation.
Marc silk: If it is backup power it gets to be a little bit more specific <unk>.
Speaker Change: Hey, Ben Thanks for taking my questions.
Ben: My pleasure Mark how are you.
Marc silk: In nature in terms of the expectation for how long or how many hours a year those backup units will be asked to run. So in some cases backup power may not require.
Mark: Well thanks.
Mark: The data center opportunity, obviously with this administration.
Mark: There's no urgency for them to do things and environmentally friendly, but the conversations you have or they can be honest administration and that's kind of why you feel that.
Marc silk: Pollution control technologies in other in other cases, it will so again as I said as part of my script the opportunities that we're looking at today.
Mark: It's an opportunity.
Marc silk: Our aren't necessarily driven by any new regulation, but it's also making the assumption that what's in place today.
Mark: Yes, so what we're seeing with.
Mark: Some of the data center opportunities that we are looking to address is in some cases the power generation is a primary power in some cases its backup power if its primary power.
Marc silk: As EPA regulation does stay in place and it's not going to be removed completely.
Mark: It's an undercurrent environmental regulations those units are going to require a pollution control technology.
Marc silk: Okay, and then switching gears for the DG.
Marc silk: So youre hiring other entities.
Marc silk: In today's to help you sell this can you kind of give us a little color on that and what's the kind of laid out for you as far as their potential and promises yes. So it was it was always our expectation.
Mark: As as base loaded generation.
Mark: If its backup power you get gets to be a little bit more specific in.
Mark: In nature in terms of the expectation for how long or how many hours a year those backup units will be asked to run. So in some cases backup power may not require.
Marc silk: When we look to.
Marc silk: Address additional market channels for DTI that we would need some expertise in order to obtain access to those channels and as fuel Tech. Historically, we have worked with manufacturing representatives for our both through our EPC business and for our fuel Chem business as well so for water. We are actually doing the same thing.
Mark: Pollution control technologies in other in other cases it will so again, it's as I said as part of my script the opportunities that we're looking at today.
Mark: Aren't necessarily driven by any new regulation, but it's also making the assumption that what's in place today.
Marc silk: We needed to come to a point, whereby we were able to speak with confidence with some of these companies. So they felt as though they were represented representing a technology in investing their time and effort and looking to put a good technology into end markets. So it's taken us awhile to get to that point.
Mark: As EPA regulation does stay in place and it's not going to be removed completely.
Mark: Okay, and then switching gears to the D G I.
Mark: So youre hiring other <unk> to help you sell this can you kind of give us a little color on that and what kind of laid out for you as far as their potential and promises yeah. So it was it was always our expectation.
Marc silk: But as I mentioned in my script, we've signed up to our already that though that just happened recently and they're for different end markets and our geographies, but we'd probably look to put in place ultimately several more as well again to help us get product into end markets.
Mark: When we look to.
Mark: Address additional market channels for DTI that we would need some expertise.
Marc silk: Last question you had recently went to a show.
Mark: In order to obtain access to those channels and as fuel Tech historically, we have worked with manufacturing representatives for our both of our APC business and for our fuel Chem business as well so for water. We are actually doing the same thing we.
Speaker Change: For the TGI can you give us any kind of color of what people are.
Marc silk: But what they are saying about your product.
Speaker Change: Potential first.
Speaker Change: The growth in that area.
Mark: We needed to come to a point, whereby we were able to speak with confidence with some of these companies. So they they felt as though they were represented representing a technology in investing their time and effort and looking to put a good technology into end markets.
Speaker Change: Yes, So we went to the Aqua Culture America show.
Speaker Change: It was extreme that dji was extremely well received.
Speaker Change: We obtained multiple leads for opportunities in again in the Aqua culture marketplace.
Speaker Change: And there's one specific.
Speaker Change: Lead that we issued a proposal for here within this past week and a half. So it was the technology was well received.
Mark: Taken us awhile to get to that point.
Mark: But as I mentioned in my script, we signed up to our already that though that just happened recently and they're for different end markets. The indoor geographies, but we'd probably look to put in place ultimately several more as well against it to help us get product into end markets.
Speaker Change: We were perceived as being <unk>.
Speaker Change: Innovative.
Speaker Change: For that particular end market place and we need to find those folks that are willing to take.
Speaker Change: Take a chance at working with a new innovation for for meeting that market applications need for oxygenation, but it was the dji was very well received.
Mark: And then last question you recently went to a show.
Speaker Change: For the T. G. I can you give us any kind of color of what people are.
Speaker Change: But what they are saying about your product that's in a potential first.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: I know you are in.
Speaker Change: And success.
Speaker Change: You know your growth in that area.
Thank you very much Mark I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Yeah. So we went to the agricultural America show.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of William Bremer with Vanquish Capital Partners. Please proceed with your question.
Speaker Change: It was extreme that dji was extremely well received.
Speaker Change: We obtained multiple leads for opportunities in again in the agriculture marketplace.
Speaker Change: Good morning, Vince.
William Bremer: Hey, good morning, Bill how are you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: And there's one specific lead that we issued a proposal for here within this past week and a half. So it was the technology was well received.
Speaker Change: Outside of coal could you give us an update on your exposure to possibly Nat gas developments.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: We were perceived as being in.
Speaker Change: From what perspective, when you say.
Speaker Change: Innovative.
Speaker Change: For that particular end market place and we need to find those folks that are willing to to take a chance at working with a new innovation for for a meeting.
Speaker Change: Net gas developments.
Speaker Change: Given the Buildout and the supply of gas for electrical generation needs.
Speaker Change: Centers et cetera.
Speaker Change: That market applications need for oxygenation, but it was the dji was very well received.
Speaker Change: Slide of the data center market in the facilities, where do we have content.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Okay, I guess, that's new year and our continued success.
Today.
Speaker Change: We would find opportunities for natural gas based systems with with manufacturing expansion.
Speaker Change: So very much I appreciate it.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of William Bremer with Vanquish Capital Partners. Please proceed with your question.
Speaker Change: Projects that we've been doing forward with.
Speaker Change: Certain end markets and industries that end up using natural gas as their choice of fuel.
Speaker Change: Good morning, Vince.
Speaker Change: Hey, good morning, Bill how are you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: But that would be the the primary other.
Speaker Change: Outside of coal can you give us an update on your exposure to possibly Nat gas developments.
Speaker Change: Other avenue that we'd be focusing on for utilization of natural gas.
Speaker Change: Alright, I knew we had exposure there I just for the update and we do have we do have just one more comment to make we do have some exposure for natural gas applications.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: From from what perspective, when you say.
Natgas developments.
Speaker Change: Given the Buildout and the supply of gas for electrical generation needs.
Speaker Change: For utility unions, as well not necessarily for this country, but for for other countries as well as it relates to some of our technologies.
Speaker Change: Centers et cetera, yes, it's outside of the data center market and the facilities, where do we have content.
Speaker Change: Alright, alright. Thank you that was a refresher on that Youre welcome given given the data center opportunities and I know this is a difficult question to answer but can you provide a range that is more successful.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Today.
Speaker Change: We would find opportunities for natural gas based systems with with manufacturing expansion.
Speaker Change: Projects that we've been doing forward with.
Speaker Change: What's the low end.
Speaker Change: Certain end markets and industries that you end up using natural gas as their choice of fuel.
Speaker Change: We're talking multiple millions here per data center concept isn't that correct.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: That is correct.
Speaker Change: But that would be the the primary other.
Speaker Change: I just mentioned.
Speaker Change: Other avenue that we'd be focusing on for utilization of natural gas.
Regarding one of the other questions. We're looking at on a per unit basis, it could be a $1 million to $2 million per unit and again, we're talking multiples of units.
Speaker Change: Right No I knew we had exposure there I just.
Speaker Change: And we do have we do have just one more comment to make we do have some exposure for natural gas applications.
Speaker Change: So yes, the the numbers get they get very large.
Speaker Change: For utility unions, as well not necessarily for this country, but for for other countries as well as it relates to some of our technologies.
Speaker Change: And the fact that your fab lifts.
Speaker Change: I'm, assuming that's any advantage to you in terms of the production and the timing to get the systems they're on.
Speaker Change: Alright, alright, thank you for the refresher on that Youre welcome Kevin Given me the data center opportunities and I know this is a difficult question to answer but can you provide a range that if we're successful.
Speaker Change: Hoping that youre, making that known to your potential entities when you're bidding for these.
Speaker Change: As part of our discussions with the companies that we're working with.
Speaker Change: What's the low end, what's the I mean.
Speaker Change: Heavy heavy heavy focus on how we manage supply chain.
Speaker Change: We're talking multiple millions here per data center concept isn't that correct.
Speaker Change: As part of the execution process, how we manage the risk for some of the call. It other market forces that are in place today.
Speaker Change: That is correct.
Speaker Change: I just mentioned.
Speaker Change: Regarding one of the other questions. We're looking at on a per unit basis, it could be $1 million to $2 million per unit and again, we're talking multiples of units.
Speaker Change: Whether it be tariff oriented or otherwise how do we control those risks as we look to work through our project execution cycle, particularly something that that could be of a larger magnitude. So those are discussions that we're having and we're prepared to have with others.
Speaker Change: So yes, the the numbers get they get very large.
Okay, and then in the <unk>.
Speaker Change: Stuff that your fad lifts.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: I'm, assuming that's a van.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Now onto CGI.
Speaker Change: Vantage to you in terms of the production and the timing to get the systems they're.
Speaker Change: Hmm.
Speaker Change: I'm looking forward to some consummation here for sure.
Speaker Change: Hoping that you're making that known to your potential.
Speaker Change: And this is just a comment.
Speaker Change: I would welcome hearing Bill Bill Jacko Who's heading this program.
Speaker Change: Entities when you're bidding for these yes as part of our discussions with the companies that we're working with.
Speaker Change: Alongside yourself, maybe on a future call just to give us more of a granular update and what he's seeing in the technology.
Speaker Change: Heavy heavy heavy focus on how we manage supply chain.
Speaker Change: As part of the execution process, how we manage the risk for some of the call. It other market forces that are in place today.
Speaker Change: I think it will.
Speaker Change: It would be a beneficial of sharing of information to all the shareholders.
Bill: Okay point noted bill Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: Whether it be tariff oriented or otherwise how do we control those risks as we look to work through our project execution cycle, particularly something that that could be of a larger magnitude. So those are discussions that we're having and we're prepared to have with others.
Speaker Change: And finally.
Speaker Change: We're trading below cash per share.
Speaker Change: At what point, given your visibility and confidence.
Speaker Change: You realize in the board seems to.
Speaker Change: Feel that.
Speaker Change: A stock buyback at this level.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: It's probably the best return of capital.
Speaker Change: Now onto T G I.
Speaker Change: For the shareholders as well as the company.
Speaker Change: Hmm.
Speaker Change: Looking forward to some consummation here for sure.
Speaker Change: And this is just a comment.
Speaker Change: We actually just recently had a discussion at our most recent board meeting here earlier this month.
Speaker Change: I would welcome hearing Bill Bill Jacko Who's heading this program.
Speaker Change: Something that we talk about.
Speaker Change: Alongside yourself, maybe on a future call just to give us more of a granular update and what he's seeing in the technology I think it would be a beneficial of sharing of information to all the shareholders.
Speaker Change: On a recurring basis.
Speaker Change: As we sit here today Bill we believe we have enough potential.
Speaker Change: Potential positive momentum to be a driver for the stock price that that that would be the better our Cao come then using our precious cash balance at this point in time to enable the same thing.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Bill: Bill Thank you very much.
Speaker Change: And finally.
Speaker Change: Trading below cash per share.
Speaker Change: Our thought process today, not necessarily saying that it would stay that way in the future, but that is our thought process today.
Speaker Change: At what point, given your visibility and confidence.
Speaker Change: You realize in the board seems too.
Speaker Change: Okay. Thank you very much thank you bill.
Speaker Change: Feel that.
Speaker Change: Stock buyback at this level.
Speaker Change: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time I will turn the floor back to Mr. Arnone for any final comments.
Speaker Change: It's probably the best return of capital for the shareholders as well as the company.
Speaker Change: Thank you operator.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Thanks for everyone for joining today. Thanks for your patients with my speaking voice I have a little bit of a cold this morning.
Speaker Change: We actually just recently had a discussion at our most recent board meeting here earlier this month.
Speaker Change: Thing that we talk about.
Speaker Change: If you have the opportunity to listen into the Sidoti Microcap Virtual conference. Please join US for my presentation. You are welcome and then just want to thank again, the fuel tech team for all of their support and all of the hard work. They do day in day out in support of our company and again, thanks to our shareholder base as well.
Speaker Change: On a recurring basis.
Speaker Change: As we sit here today Bill we believe we have enough.
Speaker Change: Potential positive momentum to be a driver for the stock price.
Speaker Change: That would be the better our outcomes and using our precious cash balance at this point in time to enable the same thing that sort of thought process today did not necessarily saying that it would stay that way in the future, but that is our thought process today.
We're doing everything that we can to look to deliver favorable shareholder value.
Speaker Change: Thanks, everyone and have a good day.
Speaker Change: Thank you ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect. Your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Thank you very much thank you bill.
Speaker Change: Thank you ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time I'll turn the floor back to Mr. Arnone for any final comments.
Mr. Arnone: Thank you operator.
Mr. Arnone: Thanks for everyone for joining today. Thanks for your patience with my speaking voice I have a little bit of a cold this morning.
Mr. Arnone: If you have the opportunity to listen into the Sidoti Microcap Virtual conference. Please join US for my presentation, you're welcome and then just want to thank again, the fuel tech team for all of their support and all of the hard work. They do day in day out in support of our company and again, thanks to our shareholder base as well.
Mr. Arnone: We're doing everything that we can to look to deliver favorable shareholder value.
Mr. Arnone: Thanks, everyone and have a good day.
Mr. Arnone: Thank you ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect. Your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.