Q2 2025 Fraport AG Earnings Call - Q&A
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the fra airport a Jeep application. Second quarter, 2025 results conference call. My name is Yousef the course call Operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen-only mode and that is conferences being recorded, you can register for questions at any time. You're pressing star. Followed by 1 on your telephone for operator. Assistance, please press star and zero. The conference was not be recorded for publication or broadcast at this time. It's my pleasure to hand over to Christopher. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Yousef. Welcome. Also from my side. It's now for the second time that we pre-recorded Matias presentation, and published it already in the morning. I hope you like the format. We are happy to receive your feedback.
CFO at the table. And so let's not lose any time but start the Q&A. Thank you.
We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and 1 on their telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2 question is on, the phone are requested to disable the loudspeaker mode while asking a question. Anyone with a question may press star 1 at this time. Our first question comes from Carlos. Carbur a please, go ahead.
Hi Matias. Hi Kristoff. Hello. Thank you for taking my questions.
Yes, 2 from me. Uh, first I wanted to focus on the outlook for the crown handling segment in q1's conference call, you mentioned that you expected EV dab, break even in Q2 and in the end it has been close to 13 million, unfortunately. 2035 you've said in the presentation that still negative EV that. But I mean, going forward. What is your expectation? Taking into account the commission of terminals, 3, next year and all that. And also, if you could comment on evid signing into account, the increase in DNA, and the second question, I was wondering, if you could share your views regarding the moving parts for traffic growth during the rest of the decade and with moving parts, I mean, more in deliveries and lose capacity growth in new Airlines with the commission.
Of terminal 3, but also your views about the aviation tax cut not being included. In the government's 2026 draft, would be appreciated. Thank you.
Yeah, thank you for your question. Starting with ground, changing. You see the numbers in H1 respectively in Q2
So we are, this is in line with our internal projection. We had in Q2 positive FDA number, of course, due to also a positive 1 of a release of Provisions, but even if you deduct the net effect, it looks
Relatively good, and now looking forward into Q3.
We expect a clear positive FDA contribution coming from ground, handling on 1 side, continuation of good Revenue numbers due to the increase of market share.
On 1 side on the other side and ongoing efforts to reduce our cost base. So we have
Um, the increase of FTE is under control. And now we are steering in the opposite direction. This means we will reduce the workforce a little bit, both the internal workforce as well as the external service providers.
This must show positive, um, effects uh, on the cost side so that in Q3 abda must be clearly positive. And also looking forward uh, for Q4, we are relatively optimistic
And then we have to see what the final outcome regarding the EPA, for the for the full year. So we are in line with this. What what is our expectation and what is our plan based also on a more?
Um, more efficient cost control, um, looking forward into 25.
it's a clear Target to achieve break, even
uh we are working on measures to secure this and then we have to see whether at the end of the day we are
successful or not, but let me say when I talk to the to the management team, they are showing optimism that this is
Uh, possible and has a good probability for 26.
Uh second question, traffic capacity. Um I assume that you are focusing on Frankfort or let's start with the international assets.
Yeah, we are very optimistic that all.
International assets are delivering next year. Good growth rates everywhere. So yeah, absolutely relaxed.
Looking to Frankfurt, we have to say this is, you know, our core.
And Main customers Luana with the market share of of more than 60%.
and decisive for the growth at Frankfurt, is the capacity and
Um, offer of Lufthansa at Frankfurt. And here, everybody is focusing on whether the new aircraft are coming or not.
Uh, listening to what they said, um, in their conference call. And in Q2, they expect, now for the rest of the um, the first delivery of of 10
Or not. And then we have to see what will, what will following uh, in?
In 26. So the news flow from Lufthansa is not different to this. What you are receiving as an analyst
and at the end of the day,
We have to see whether they are able to bring in.
More new aircraft to increase the capacity, but all in all also knowing that even if the new aircrafts are coming, they have to withdraw some of their old aircrafts because the average age of the fleet Frankfurt, airport is between 17 and 18 years in average. So the fleet is is absolutely overdue. So to say, they have also to replace them, some of these old aircrafts and
The decisive element will be, what is a net impact of on 1 side? New aircrafts, uh, coming and all the aircraft is taken out of the fleet. So the net effect will be
A positive growth in 26, but we expect uh, just a modest number for Frankfurt Airport.
Okay, thank you very much. And 1 briefing about the the aviation tax for 2026.
Uh, regarding Aviation tax. I don't expect anything positive from our government.
But this is not new. So this is also the the information that they are not going to to cut down this, what they increase in the beginning of the year was for me, not a, not a surprise. So again I don't expect anything.
Coming. So we have to live with the existing taxes.
and uh,
we will do our job because we have a
Broad.
and and well, balanced portfolio and
Um, in Germany also looking forward in the next couple of years. Uh,
I don't expect significant growth rates.
It's a combination of reduced capacity on one side based on the non-delivery of new aircraft, but also...
Um, a continuation of high tax, tax burden, yeah, in Germany.
Okay, understood. Thank you Mas.
Our next question comes from Tobias from Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question.
Um, my first question is to follow up on Fraport; traffic for H1 was 1.4% year-over-year. Uh, and then you have the acceleration in Q2.
Um, the time that you just started was guiding for capacity growth at 4%. I was just wondering, is there any concern you have? Why you wouldn't narrow the range of your full year guidance? Maybe to 62.5 million. Um, do you see anything that we don't see currently? And then, secondly, also follow up on staff costs.
Um, you double digit increases in the last 3 quarters. Uh we
Quite good visibility on the staff cost increases on a wage level.
Um you just mentioned that headcount reduction should happen in uh ground handling. Could you could you quantify this? You said that it would come down. How much would it come down and where do you see the optimal Staffing levels for, um, for the ground handling business? Thank you.
So with uh with traffic. So we um we gave and we are giving still a clear guidance
Growth in this year, but below.
64 million and we are convinced that we will end up.
Uh, with a number which is above 63 million but below 64. So this is this is a range in which we will end up.
Uh, let me say, given all the information which we have. And now we have 7.
Months are behind us, so even just from a mathematical point of view there.
Can't be any positive or negative surprises looking forward for the residual 5 months. So this is a, the range between 63 and 64 staff cost was uh, extraordinary high in H1. But this has to do with a lot of 1-off structural elements, Etc.
So, this will not continue.
In H2.
Uh, 50% of this. What we saw in H1
it has to do with 1 of
In embedded, in these very complex, uh, terrific agreement. So with other words, it's still high with 5%.
Uh, per employee, but clearly lower than this, what we saw in in the first half of the year and regarding a ground handling, we have um, we are controlling now exactly the number of internal stuff and could be even at the end of the day. Lower than this, what we have. As of today, we have looking on the external service providers. In the moment, we have still
I I think part 450,
um,
People there, and the target is to reduce this number.
until the end of the day to
a to a number of to a range of about 200. So a further reduction of 250 which is then booked on under the the topic material expenses
Both elements, um, uh, are working positively in our P&L.
On the other side, uh, the increased market share will continue to the rest of the year so that we on 1 side.
See a continuation on the revenue side?
And um, a cost level.
which um,
is going up compared to previous year, but is not any longer so high compared to previous year
Uh, then in in H1. So with other worlds,
Uh, at the end of the day, we are looking on the ibda.
And here we are expecting. Um,
The second half of this year.
yeah, it must be Break Even or positive FDA in in both, uh, quarters now
Great. Thank you.
Welcome.
The next question comes from Ashish Catan City Group. Please go ahead.
Hello everyone. Thanks for taking my question. I just have 1 question. Uh, if you could provide some outlook on the retail spend per banks for second half of the year, if you could just highlight key, headwinds or Tailwinds, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
Yeah. You know or you have a precise explanation of this. What? What happened in the first 2 quarters of of this year and we assume a continuation. This means
Uh, very good advertising revenues uh, perhaps even higher numbers. Also the uh the positive trend in FNB will continue.
but also on the other side, the relative weakness uh in the shopping itself will also continue so that the whole picture is
Positive with different elements. 2 of them are positive. 1 is negative.
And we assume a continuation for the for the rest of the year perhaps even a little bit better.
Uh,
so the trend is our friend and it's going in the positive direction but no significant changes. We don't see a downside risk but also we do not expect significant increases in the next. Uh, 5, 6 months.
Thank you.
Welcome.
The next question comes from Andrew lobenberg Barclays. Please go ahead.
Oh, hi there. Um, can I just, uh, ask about the dividend? Your guidance is pretty clear that there's no dividend for this year, and yet the Q1 results are slightly flirted.
With the idea that if you saw a Tailwind that might come, uh, I guess with no progress on a tax, there's no Tailwind. But I I just look for Clarity on on that and and Clarity that, you know, we might we're still looking at a div for 26, uh, paid in 27. And then my second question would be to
Just inquire about how you're seeing trading, uh, with the Condor expansion. I think they're responsible for quite a lot of the capacity growth. You've got
We are to a question. I think there's a
There's a good probability that at the end of the day, the decision will be to pay a dividend. So with other words, we are on track, we are in line with our expectation. There's officially no change, but we always said at the end of the day, we will look at the numbers. And in the moment, the numbers are nice.
And I do not expect for the rest of the year, any negative surprise and if this will continue and there's a high probability that this will continue, then there's also combined with this a high probability that we are going.
To pay a dividend in 26 for 25.
So, I hope that this is relatively clear. What? We are going to do now.
And uh second question condo expansion, this is very nice. So when we um
Let me say when we make the story a little bit black and white. So the most of the, uh, the growth in the moment at Frankfurt. Airports. Um,
Not most the whole growth comes from from the other Airlines and primarily from condor.
Condor has increased their seat capacity, nearly 50% compared to previous year.
Very nice um development and we are happy to have condo as a second, very strong Airline here at our site and um what is the the Strategic change compared to the passes? It's not just bringing in additional Long, Haul aircraft. It's also to to start with a, a network operation to become more independent.
Regarding their, their feeder traffic and based on the official information, which you can read. And, uh, in the newspapers they had in former times, they had transferred traffic coming from the biggest customer yet side.
In the size of about 20%. So, 20% of their
Long-haul passengers have come from another airline's feeder network, and now they have based their own created feeder network. They have reduced this number from 20% to just 5%, which is a significant change.
From a condo perspective, very nice. And um,
Good basis for for future operation. And, uh, the uh, reduction of the seat load factor. Of course, has to do with the creation of the feder network. Because if overnight you you're starting with a feder network, it's it's, it's for sure that you are starting this very low numbers,
uh also what is in the market that the seed load factor is, um,
Is about 50%, which is absolutely seen.
Um, a relatively low seat load factor, but coming from zero, starting from scratch, this is a good development. What we hear is that month by month, they bring up.
This number. And so, this everything what we are hearing from from this customer is, is, is, is good.
And uh, also looking forward.
Uh, these growth story.
Should and will continue based on the information which are um, in the market. So we have we have a strong condo, also other airlines like United are doing a good job there also increasing. So if you just look on the other airlines, it's it's a higher. It's in, in case of condor High double digit increase.
In the case of other airlines High single digit.
Uh increase. But on the other side um the main customer with more than 60% market share showing a growth of about zero
in the moment.
That's clear. Thank you.
The next question comes from Harish Shankar, Rama Worthy, Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
How much of it is pricing? Any Clarity? That we appreciated? Thanks.
Absolutely. In line with our expectation, we have to see it's very nice to have a positive free cash flow in Q2, but we have, we had a negative free cash flow in q1, which is normal in the first quarter. So it's more compensation of the negative numbers from q1. So we're now looking on H1. This is absolutely in line what we have internally planned.
And this gives us confidence that at the end of the year.
We will end up with a free cash flow on a group basis, which is close to zero, but we are also making conservative expectation management. We will not show positive free cash flow numbers at the end of the year; this is for sure. So we are trying to come to end up as close as possible to zero.
And we are fighting for that. But, um, internally, there's no realistic case that we are going to end up with a positive free cash flow already in this year. This is in the expectation and guidance for next year.
And uh second question retail retail. Yeah. Retail, as I mentioned, FNB good and even higher numbers in in in
second half of the year.
In Media.
Uh, we are showing good numbers. We know from other,
Corporate and other companies are working to bring in more media activities here at Frankfurt Airport, so we are back on track. This is very positive.
In, in retail, we are working on on some new Concepts Etc.
But the general mood you have to see is is not very optimistic of the passenger side. So the consumer spending behavior in a whole is in the moment relatively modest.
We have to see whether we can change this over the time. We have also, if you look in our structure, uh, the Chinese numbers are not the brilliant like in the past and these are very important.
Uh customers with uh Deep Pockets. So to say. So this is is also some structural Elements which are not in favor of us regarding the pure shopping um in the in in the shops. But all in all we expect um,
A better number.
Compared to previous year, this is okay. And perhaps
a little bit more.
Uh will be no big change of these.
Uh Trends uh, in the next couple of months.
Thanks. So, uh, could in the context of what you said on, um, the consumer behavior. Is it fair to say that maybe the, um, better spent per packs is being driven by pricing um, and and maybe just 1 another follow up on ceph. Um, sorry about this. But um uh what would you think is a a range of ceph that you could commit to for 2026 or 2027 or what what do you think could be an equilibrium level of um free cash?
A second part of your questions. I I didn't understand. Yeah. Uh, so so
Sure, um, for for 2026. Um, what is the, uh, range of SCF? That you would be willing to commit to, um, at this stage or if that's even possible? Um,
First of all, the positive free cash flow. This is not, this is not new for you, let me say. At the end of the day, we have internally a clear
Clear plan and a clear expectation which will be the outcome for the FDA. So this is for sure. I I don't tell you what is our exact FDA number for 26 but internally this is more or less a given. What will happen in in 26 with a very small range, a small upside and downside so we also know exactly what will be the interest burden. We see the interest income, all numbers are depreciation is clear.
Uh, a little bit volatility we had in H1 coming from Antalya, which was not planned and we do not expect and do not hope that this will continue in 26, but there's a always, a remaining risk, but again, yeah, no, no, no, no probability. That this will happen again. So so all let me say all relevant.
Levels. Um, are
Clearly calculable for 26. But we have 1 remaining.
And this is the capex amount and here we have to see at the end of this year. What is the outflow for capex and then to have a precise
guidance for the capex level in 26 and this is at the end of the day, determining the
The remaining or the residual. Um,
Number regarding uh free cash flow.
so, it's a little bit too early to give you a free cash flow guidance for
For 26.
On the exact number.
For instance.
Thanks for this.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question. Please press star. Followed by 1 on your telephone. Our next question comes from Graham hunt from Jeffries. Please go ahead.
Thanks very much for the questions I've got 2. If I may just first, 1 coming back to free, cash flow and and on capex for 2025 just interested to know.
About the phasing there particularly lemur where you've maintained your guidance between 50 million euros. Um you're running I think quite far below that and given the terminal is now open just wondering is that
Um, would you expect to come in below or reasonably below that 250 guide? Now,
Or is there going to be a step up in 2H? Uh, and then
similarly, on Terminal 3 or or Frankfurt, I think you're running a bit ahead of your
400 plus, 400 guide.
Are you expecting that to step down into the second half? Or, or just just in terms of thinking about the phasing there, as you've maintained all the guidance? And then my second question is just on the ground handling and the, um,
Market, share, gains, that you've seen this year, do you expect that to roll off at some point in time next year? Or or, or can you give us any, any visibility on that or is that are you able to retain that higher market share looking forward? Thank you.
Yeah, let's start with your second question. Ground ending, we have, at the moment, a market share which is, I think, about 95%.
This is higher than this. What we always had in the past where we run the market share of close to 90%. This has to do with a change of the concession, from visa to Swissport Swissport head and has a lot of problems to
To increase, uh, the staff to to handle contracts.
And let me say this was a chance for us to take over market share, which was a profitable Market chess. So we
we gained from this, uh,
Increase of market share. Looking forward, will this continue now?
its for clear that, um,
As we spots has also to increase our market share. Otherwise, they cannot run their operation on a profitable basis.
and this means they have when new contracts are on the market and you have permanent stream of of
Airlines coming into the market and asking for a new...
a contract, though, they, they will show or they will offer some lower prices than we
And we are not willing to, uh, to compete with very low prices. So, they will gain some market share, that's for sure. I assume we will go down to our old level of 90%.
Uh, but this is fine because on the other side, and we are losing a little bit.
some money, uh,
due to the reduction of market share. But on the other side, I explained what we are doing on the cost side and we are confident that we are now able to realize these um gains on the on on on the on the cost side and this will be an overcompensation of a potential loss of market share in the future.
so that's looking forward into
26.
I assume that our market share will go down in the direction of 90%. On 1 side, we will have a better cost uh, structure and, and cost base compared to 25, so that again,
We we are fighting to, to realize FDA break, even in uh for the whole year in in 26.
Um,
Also.
Capex consideration.
Yeah, first of all, a very precise analysis of our, uh, capex outflow in in H1 and um,
Uh, in H1.
if you compare this to our guidance, to up to 250 million,
it's clear that there's head room that we end up with a number, which is clearly below. 250,
we have to see because, uh, the final or the outstanding final bill of the
Construction. Consortium is still under negotiation, which will
Uh, will be fixed in the next couple of weeks. So there will come something which we have to pay, uh, but there's a good probability that we will end up with a number which is below, 250 million. So regarding Terminal 3,
we, um, we spent 2 hours, um,
45, um, million in H1. This is more than 50% of our guidance, which is. And so far also,
Logically, because, uh, now we are under full
Full Steam, so to say to to finalize. Now the construction, which
Will.
Well, let me see the construction itself will end in October. Of course, if you have always some some Works, which have to be done afterwards. So but we expect um then a reduction of cupcakes now in Age, 2 regarding total 3 so that we will end up about 400 billion.
So this is clear. So in H2 the cash out for T3 is lower than in H1 that the combination of H1 and and and H2 then
Will will lead to the total amount of about 400 million.
And then assuming up to 400 million.
For maintenance, for all the rest, uh, also for for brazila trees, Etc.
so, from a today's perspective, our guidance from the beginning, 1.1 billion is is
Clearly on track.
And we will end up with a number of about 1.1 billion.
Thanks very much, maybe just if I could 1, quick follow up on Grand handling. Just
Is there any timing associated with the reduction? The 250 headcount reduction, you mentioned um that you can guide on or is
Yeah, this will end of the year. So we from this 450 million uh 450 ft in the moment.
Uh, there's a more or less linear.
Uh, ramp down to about 200 uh, end of this year.
By month, we are going to reduce. And and also we regarding new recruitment here in Frankfurt, we are absolutely stable or even going down. So we have a double effect on both sides, external workers as well as internal workers.
Thank you.
Welcome.
The next question comes from Dario Milan, BNB. Please go ahead.
Hi thanks. I have 2 quick follow-up. Uh, just some free cash flow so we discussed the capex. Um can you maybe discuss uh other elements like uh fixed concession payments or dividends from Equity companies?
um,
what we should expect for Q3 and Q4.
And second question on Lima traffic is growing very well in H1 plus 7%, uh, and that but the terminal was not open yet, so up until June. Uh, so what kind of growth in traffic share? Respect in a in the second half. Thanks.
uh, when you
The current.
In Lima, they are very good.
And uh we assume that this will or the same range will continue in the second half of the year.
so, relatively High,
single digit growth numbers, um, regarding email, which is very
um,
very attractive.
And also for next year. So this is Peru is back on track. Tourism is fine. Um,
let me say this political problems which they had, uh, they are more or less gone.
People have always a short memory regarding touristic activities.
Economy is doing is doing very well. So we are happy with this asset. The only thing which is a little bit spoiling the results is a dollar exchange rate. You know functional currency is dollar, we are
Fees in dollar from the airlines.
And you can say as a, you look on our FDA numbers. Last year, we had an FDA of 110 million.
Coming from the US dollar. So as a, let me say a rough meter, you can say, um, 10 cents dollar increase or decrease.
A Mains. Or as a as a, the impact of about 10 to 15 million positive or negative,
Uh, on the Peruvian pnl. So a stronger dollar is in favor of us.
A weaker dollar is running against us, we can say 10 10% dollar.
Increase or decrease means about 15 million euro abda increase or decrease.
um,
What was your second question, uh?
You have free uh free free cash flow. Again we have um
The elements are the FDA on 1 side. So you know, our guidance for this year internally, we know relatively exactly what will be the guidelines for 26. And 1 thing is for Clear, 26 will be better than 25. The question is, what is the extent of the Improvement? So this is 1 element. Second element is capex capex. And 26 will be significantly below 25 255, 1.1 billion.
So we have to see what is the further reduction, the second step of carrichs reduction in 26. Perhaps this is just a
Not a guidance, perhaps a number up to 900 million guidance on group level for 26. But again, this is too early to give you an exact number.
Um, this is the second very important parameter.
parallel to the FDA and then we have um,
the interest expenses, this is
Absolutely simple to calculate. We have 12 billion, uh, debt times 3.4%, this is a cash out for interest expenses.
On the other side, we have
3 and a half billion cash.
And uh, here we have cash in Frankfort as well as outside Frankfurt. So we
We are collecting interest income, cash relevant in interest income of 1 120.
120 million. So this is a, a cash.
Income outcome, uh, elements for next year.
And, uh, we are paying, uh, fixed concessions, uh, for our Consolidated group as a assets of about. Um,
100 million.
Up to 100 million as a maximum.
And then we have always the unknown element change in in um, networking Capital. Which has always an amplitude or of, of plus minus up to 100 million. Both directions. This is always difficult to calculate because in December, it can be positive or negative. So these are the elements.
if you put all together, you you
you can see that we have a
A clear positive number for 26.
You.
Once again to ask a question. Please press star, followed by 1 on your telephone. The next question comes from Marin vital from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Yes. Uh thank you so much. I have a couple of questions, firstly, on your expectations for Aida growth in 2026. I think in previous conference calls, you described it as a Buddhist growth or or moderate growth if I remember correctly. Uh, do you have perhaps any update would you say?
That everything is developing in line with your expectations or you are slightly more positive perhaps given the the progressive ground handling.
Um, a question number 2, obviously next year, you will have more capacity with the opening of of terminal 3. Um, do you have now good visibility as to which airlines will be moving uh, to to Terminal 3 from other terminals?
Yeah, thank you for your questions. Um, first topic, abda growth. Um, this uh, we are in line with our expectation.
The um, the main driver, as I mentioned, all the international assets are doing very well. Also in 26, all the growth rates outside Frankfort, we expect
very positive.
In Frankfort itself. It's a continuation of the current situation. So
weakness of Luanda due to lack of, uh, new aircrafts on 1 side and relatively good performance of all other airlines, uh,
Non-star lines members as well as star lines Members, Plus condos, or this will also continue. And this combination of uh more than 60% market share of Lufthansa with a very modest growth and higher growth rates from the other ones they will.
Uh they will bring together the overall growth rate for uh Frankfort in 26. But again, the main driver is Lufthansa. When they bring in more new aircrafts we will see
A better total growth rates and also uh, vice versa.
Regarding um T3, so it's very simple. When we are going to open
A T3 all of the airlines which are today operated in in Terminal, 2 are moving into T3. So like for like, we are going from T2 to T3.
so regarding the, the overall capacity we have or we can serve
About 60 million passengers in Terminal 1, and about 12 million.
Uh in Terminal 2. Then when all the um Airlines have moved to Terminal 3, we are going to temporarily closed Terminal 2 to go for the refurbishment in the next couple of years.
and then we have all the airlines in terminal 3 Terminal 3, has a
um,
theoretical capacity of about 20 million.
So uh, the net effect from the change is we are closing 12 million. We are opening 20 million
So the overall capacity from Frankfurt in will increase from 72 to about 80 or even a little bit more. This is let me say the the capacity increase. So to say, overnight in the long run, we have, then again, the reopening of thermal 2 and then we end up with more than 90 million overall capacity for the airport regarding future or regarding allocation of
other airlines in the future or
are there any?
Movements from Terminal 1 to Terminal 3. Yes, there will be some changes. So, uh, Turkish Airlines, which are part of the star lines, which today, served at the terminal 1, they, uh, they have the clear intention to go to Terminal 3.
And and Turkish Airlines is a fast growing Airlines. So this is a fast also smart move because we are getting, we are gaining additional capacity. Uh, in T1 for further growth of star lines, including
Uh, main Airline luanza and we are, we have a better fill up of of T3.
And also some other.
small airlines are willing to go from T1 to
T3, the reason is, you have more gate positions for them at T3, a lot of airlines at T3 at T1 are served on the apron and it's much more comfortable to have a gate position, uh, for the passenger. So, this is the incentive to go from T1 to T3. And then we have to look, uh, what will happen with Condor, there's also some probability that condo including then you um feeder network uh, will go to um,
2 Terminal 3, because condo in the future is not any longer dependent from luanza like in the past regarding, um, fedaa traffic. So
Uh, in the long run also. And the trend is showing this; we have.
Luanda with star lines operated in T1. And later on the overflow will go into Terminal 2 when it is reopened and all other Airlines and all other uh, alliance members.
Are operated uh, at Terminal 3.
Thank you so much.
The next question comes from Nicolas Mora Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
900 million capex for next year.
Can you help us? Understand a little bit? How you you build up that number, in terms of, uh, what's left to be spent at Terminal 3 in Lima. Maybe other capex plans. You have in mind thinking about Greece, for example, maybe a new Runway also in, uh, in in Bulgaria. Just trying to understand a little bit, how you get to that number, which is, I think quite significantly higher than
This is, thank you.
Yeah.
so, this is just
Yeah, interim information. So to say, based on the 2 days information, really? We have to see, what is, what is the final capex outflow end of the year and then we have a precise guidance for next year.
Um,
So, but it's it's clearly lower than than 25 and we have 2 Elements which are going down. This is this is this is Lemma on 1 side, a significant reduction
In Lima and also, a significant reduction in T3 from a percentage, uh, perspective, of course in Lima. The reduction is much higher than in in Frankfort, why? Because limma then is finally through with all, uh, Investments. While, uh, in Frankfort you have you have always some
Let me say following things, which have to be fixed after the opening.
And you, you have always the difference between Lima and Frankfurt is in Lima. We have an EPC contract, we have a construction Consortium, there's a clear timetable, there's 1 contract for the whole terminal and we have a fixed dates based on the contract where we have to transfer money, to the consults human, at the end of the day, you have always a discussion. What is a final payment to them? They are coming with some requests. We are saying, no, this is not based on anything and then you find a compromise. And this is the last payment in Frankfort, we have hundreds of contracts because we don't have 1 Consortium, we don't have 1 Epcot, the discussion with the construction with the hundreds of
Firms, which are working at these construction site takes time in. Let me say, if we come together as always, a discussion regarding each and every contract. And if everything is is constructive, we, we are settling most of the contracts already in, in, in 2025, but it can be that we have ongoing discussions often topics,
Which are delayed into 26 or even delayed into 2027.
so difficult to have a precise calculation about the cash outflow for Terminal 3,
But both numbers are going.
Down the rest is relatively stable. Yes, there will be a little bit more in an increase but then we have other other assets where it is lower. So, if you take all together it's like
A little bit wider noise. So it's a, it's a baseline, which is more or less constant for all these assets which we have in our portfolio.
But 1 thing is also clear, looking or going into 27. Then, uh, the, uh, the remaining capex for the group is on a much lower level, that's for sure. Because then all things are
settled and over.
So is what we always said. So this is a 2-Step process in in uh,
let me see already in this year reduction. A further reduction in next year and then we have a more stable
Regarding capex up from 2027.
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. And this concludes today's Q&A session, I would now like to turn the conference back over to Kristoff Nancy for closing remarks.
No, thank you for participating in the call. Thank you for your good questions. Good discussion. So if you have any further questions, please contact us in. I and I wish you a good rest of the day. Thank you. Bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing course call and thank you for participating in a conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.